Ace of Spades HQ

January 05, 2014

Gun Thread (1-5-2014)
— andy

First, a quick thanks to Dave in Texas for filling in for me for the last couple of weeks while I was traveling. Now on to the gun chitchat ...

More Guns, Less Crime

Be sure to check out Ace's post and the discussion on the podcast about the latest study that shows (SHOCK!) proponents of gun control are wrong about pretty much everything:

The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

The history of gun control in the US is relatively short and littered with failure. But remember, the left just wants to "do what works" and enact some "common sense gun safety laws" or whatever poll-tested euphemism for banning guns they're using these days.

Dick Metcalf, Boo F'n Hoo

Speaking of proponents of common sense blah blah blah, the New York Times has a piece profiling poor Dick Metcalf this weekend.

Â“IÂ’ve been vanished, disappeared,Â” Mr. Metcalf, 67, said in an interview last month on his gun range here, about 100 miles north of St. Louis, surrounded by snow-blanketed fields and towering grain elevators. Â“Now you see him. Now you donÂ’t.Â”

There was a lot of discussion about "scalp hunting" or whatever around Metcalf, but a comparison to the brouhaha around the A&E/Phil Robertson incident is instructive.

First, there's no shortage of gun magazines and gun writers to read, not to mention websites to frequent. The publishers of Guns & Ammo were rightly concerned that having an editor who thoroughly misunderstands the second amendment (the NYT elided over the problems with Metcalf's argument, which Maet handled well on the blog) is bad for business. Meanwhile, A&E apparently briefly forgot that there was only one Duck Dynasty, leaving the Robertsons holding all the cards. So as an economic decision, G&A made the right one ... as, ultimately, did A&E.

As far as the content of the speech goes, Metcalf's out-of-the-blue support of gun regulations would be like Phil Robertson renouncing hunting and announcing that all proceeds from Duck Dynasty would henceforth be donated to PETA. Decrying consumers who understandably vote with their feet and wallets Because Free Speech!!11! ignores the simple fact that they chose to read the publication in the first place and they can just as easily choose to stop.

Now if you'll pardon me, Mr. Metcalf, I have a tiny violin to tune.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - Alabama: Employee Pulls Gun on Would-be Robber - http://t.co/WX52eTvIR8 #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @whnt)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) January 3, 2014

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Colt Model 1917 in .45 ACP. The one in the picture was made in 1920, right at the end of production, and my father bought it around 1980. It's been a treasured member of the family ever since.

Colt and S&W made about 150,000 of these apiece as we ramped up production on the Model 1911. It's a big ol' piece of American steel that fits the hand well and is a pleasure to shoot.

Jerry Miculek Compares Some Composite-framed Guns

If you're into that sort of thing ...

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 06:00 AM | Comments (128)
Post contains 723 words, total size 6 kb.

1 Mrs VIA just renewed her NRA membership last night.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 05, 2014 06:05 AM (GcYmn)

2 Ah...my old man just bought a model 1917 last year, he has been coveting one for probably 40 years. Loves the thing.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at January 05, 2014 06:06 AM (T8ivr)

3 And 110 days since she submitted paperwork for her new toy.
Still no response from the state of Maryland

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 05, 2014 06:08 AM (GcYmn)

4 Woohoo Got a new AR upper last night If this place in Il ships to Hawaii I'll get T a Beowulf upper

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:10 AM (dr6XJ)

5 Watch Jerry Miculek Fire 5 Rounds From a Desert Eagle .50AE in 0.8 Seconds AND Get 5 Hits! http://tinyurl.com/kfasrb5

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl Happy 10th day of Christmas at January 05, 2014 06:10 AM (u8GsB)

6 You do *not* want to go cowboy and decide to knock over a Stop-N-Rob here in El Paso County, CO.

Everyone carries. I mean, everyone.

That shit in Aurora? With the idiot in the clown costume in the movie theater? If that'd happened here they'd have had to get zip lock baggies to gather up his remains.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:11 AM (x3YFz)

7 Who is "Dick Metcalf"? --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 06:12 AM (8gaTv)

8 11th day

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl Happy 11th day of Christmas at January 05, 2014 06:12 AM (u8GsB)

9 Excellent thread Andy. If I may throw some extra content inÂ…Remington releasing a new handgun. The R-51. http://tinyurl.com/kns29nb

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Irish at January 05, 2014 06:13 AM (GEICT)

10 Many of the Colt 1917 and S&W 1917 revolvers were sold as surplus from, of all things, the US postal service. Deemed obsolete by the DOD, these were turned over to post offices where they became true "safe queens". I think that the S&W M1917 will fire without half moon clips (requiring a rod to punch out empties).

Posted by: Bill at January 05, 2014 06:13 AM (uvyrw)

11 It's not so much the Second Amendment that Metcalf fails to understand, it's the principle(s) behind it. You either understand it/them, or you don't. I have zero sympathy for anyone who doesn't.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 05, 2014 06:14 AM (0HooB)

12 7. I had a question for you last week and due to my old age can't remember it Uggggh

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:14 AM (dr6XJ)

13 Ammobots still show most 22lr ammo at over 13 cents per round.

And new spotting scope, and red dot should be here tuesday.
Nothing fancy.
But it's a start.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at January 05, 2014 06:15 AM (GcYmn)

14 We have 4 military bases. 10th SFG. You can't wave a dead cat without hitting a combat vet with a .45 in his belt.

And, our sheriff will not just not arrest you for a clean shoot, he'll help dig the hole.

Safest place in America.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:15 AM (x3YFz)

15 ah the Colt M1917, it of the 1/2 moon clips...

I want one, hell I'd like to have one of the Webleys converted to .45 ACP....

http://tinyurl.com/plxa8kx

If I got those I'd probably wind up building a pair of 1911s....

As wife says, "Sven doesn't have the guns he wants but he does have more than the guns he needs."

Then she thanks me for buying her the 1858 Target carbine she's been wanting.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:15 AM (TE35l)

16 If constitutional rights are are regulated, like Metcalf says, then how are they actually constitutionally guaranteed?

Posted by: TexasJew at January 05, 2014 06:16 AM (U+u4A)

17 7 Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 10:12 AM (8gaTv)

Eric Metcalf's alter-ego before Michael Vick invented the Ron Mexico method?

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:17 AM (TE35l)

18 Go Packers Navy JoeÂ…sorry had to say it

Posted by: Big Swingin Al at January 05, 2014 06:17 AM (OZtuG)

19 14. But you guys have big ass tarantulas walking around Screw that

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:17 AM (dr6XJ)

20 In regards to M1917 revolvers and use of half moon clips, remember the .45 auto rim cartridge, simply a rimmed 45acp. Lotsa luck finding any.

Posted by: Bill at January 05, 2014 06:18 AM (uvyrw)

21 >> I think that the S&W M1917 will fire without half moon clips (requiring a rod to punch out empties). Yup. The later production Colts will, too. Did it a couple of weeks ago. It's interesting that there were only 300,000 of these made but that was sufficient to prompt production of the .45 Auto Rim that only fit these guns.

Posted by: Andy at January 05, 2014 06:18 AM (vGQV1)

22 >> Who is "Dick Metcalf"? Ha!

Posted by: Andy at January 05, 2014 06:18 AM (vGQV1)

23 I think he understands it he -- just doesn't agree with it.

Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 05, 2014 06:20 AM (Qev5V)

24 and in CO gun news: two bills were submitted. I'm not intimately familiar with the second (has to do with background checks), but the first was to repeal the 15-round mag limit. Which was ignant to begin with: no one makes 15-round mags, so it was basically 12 or less.

The conservatives in this state are playing good cards. After we recalled 2.5 legislators (the 0.5 was a D bitch who resigned before she could be recalled in order to pass her seat to another D idiot), the proponents of individual liberty here have forced the hand.

They're making the sitting D's double down on stupid or pass the bills.

Well played chess, this is.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:20 AM (x3YFz)

25 There is absolutely no reason on Earth why I would buy a VZ-2008 (AKA VZ-5

when I already have an SKS.

So what if the reviews are glowing. So what if it's basically an AK without the annoying parts (no bolt hold-open after last round, stupid safety). So what if it's a CZ design and commenter Oedipus (I believe it's Oedipus) has convinced me that anything even remotely related to CZ must be purchased whenever possible. So what if it's $499 including five mags and a pigsticker?

I'd be stupid to buy this.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:20 AM (celt+)

26 Can anyone here recommend a good trigger for the AR? I figure since I'm going from scratch I may as well get individual parts I want

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:21 AM (dr6XJ)

27 19 14. But you guys have big ass tarantulas walking around
Screw that

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 10:17 AM (dr6XJ)

not really. Just rattlesnakes. Occasional mountain lion or bear, but nothing to fret about.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:21 AM (x3YFz)

28 The aptly named Dick Metcalf's problem is he forgets that if you grant the left the ability to "sensibly regulate" and they through the media gets to define "sense" you are always going towards cession of you "right" Mr. Metcalf not you "your allowance."

We live in an era where NSA feels emboldened enough to reply to a US Representative that they are monitoring everyone when asked if the NSA is spying on Congress.

Given Congress is the most answerable to the citizenry branch of the government this is as Joe Biden says, "a big effin deal."

No more "allowances" Mr. Metcalf, we need "assertions."

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:22 AM (TE35l)

29 VZ-58, not VZ-5smileyfacewithsunglasses, goddammit.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:22 AM (celt+)

30 26 Can anyone here recommend a good trigger for the AR?
I figure since I'm going from scratch I may as well get individual parts I want

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 10:21 AM (dr6XJ)

As always: it depends on what you're looking for. Standard Colt off-the-line trigger assemblies aren't bad to begin with.
You want less or more pull?

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:23 AM (x3YFz)

31 Insty linked this new Remington R-51: http://alturl.com/g2y58 Think I'll wait for the reviews. Wonder how difficult it is to maintain.

Posted by: Frankly at January 05, 2014 06:23 AM (XGNb9)

32 26 Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 10:21 AM (dr6XJ)

What are you looking for in function NCJ?

If you're wanting ease of storage and adjustment go for a contained trigger group.

If you're wanting simple military function you can go with several.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:23 AM (TE35l)

33 If I may throw some extra content inÂ…Remington releasing a new handgun. The R-51.

http://tinyurl.com/kns29nb

--------------------

Saw that on The Firearm Blog. The commentariat (including me) went apeshit.

I'll be buying one in two years when the frenzy dies down and the bugs are worked out. Beautiful gun and my dream carry piece made metal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:24 AM (celt+)

34 30. Less Something around 3lbs iirc the standard colt is 4-6

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:25 AM (dr6XJ)

35 25 Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:20 AM (celt+)

You would...

http://tinyurl.com/n5e5pxs

There's the link to pre-order one from Aim for 499....

I am trying not to buy one myself.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:25 AM (TE35l)

36 I'll be buying one in two years when the frenzy dies down and the bugs are worked out. Beautiful gun and my dream carry piece made metal.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:24 AM (celt+)

you fkrs are to us like shoe salesmen are to our wives.

I haven't mastered more than 2 of the 20 weapons in the armory. I've had my M1A for 5 years and still can't get a good group at 500 yards. No. No. No.

I hate you.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:26 AM (x3YFz)

37 I'll be buying one in two years when the frenzy dies down and the bugs are worked out. Beautiful gun and my dream carry piece made metal. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:24 AM (celt+) I'll be interested when the .40 version comes out. But yeah, it looks pretty cool.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Irish at January 05, 2014 06:27 AM (GEICT)

38 32. Simple function Until the zombies come of course Basically something smooth and lite, like milk through my cat

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:27 AM (dr6XJ)

39 Where is the 22LR ammo?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 05, 2014 06:27 AM (u82oZ)

40 39 Where is the 22LR ammo?

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 05, 2014 10:27 AM (u82oZ)

in my safe.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:28 AM (x3YFz)

41 Re: Metcalf As someone who lives less than 100 miles from his range, I'll say this. It's telling that the Dateline of the article is IL, but his range in in MO. Illinois until recently was the height of gun "regulation" (quotes as mockery of Metcalf's argument) and for the longest time we've had buyers, hunters, and whatever jump the boarder. I even know one guy who maintains his residency at his summer cabin in Montana to make his gun owning easier. (This was before IL had CCW and but I guess allowed out of state CCWs.) So Hypocrite, thy name is Metcalf. (OT: It's snowing like crazy here, haven't seen it like this in a while. I suspect Mass is out for today due to safety concerns.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 05, 2014 06:28 AM (GaqMa)

42 26 Can anyone here recommend a good trigger for the AR?

----------------

Hard to go wrong with Timney. About two bills. Gun Tests put it against a Geisselle (sp?) and found the Timney much easier to install.

CMMG makes a "customizable" lower parts kit that omits the trigger and pistol grip. Midway has them for about forty bucks. Great way to go if you're replacing the grip and trigger anyway. I used the full CMMG kit for my build and everything was labelled and packaged nicely and went together without a hitch.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:28 AM (celt+)

43 NavyCopAJoe,

http://tinyurl.com/o88et4t

I've been pondering a Giselle on a 24" Varmint upper.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:28 AM (TE35l)

How's this for common sense gun control:

Proponents of gun control should be prohibited from owning guns - ever - for any reason, and they should be made to pay a special tax to support the next part of the law which is:

For people who believe that gun ownership is a right, the government should provide whatever gun they want - free - like an obamaphone.

Unlimited ammo too. Obviously.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 05, 2014 06:30 AM (BZAd3)

45 CMMG makes a "customizable" lower parts kit that omits the trigger and pistol grip. Midway has them for about forty bucks. Great way to go if you're replacing the grip and trigger anyway. I used the full CMMG kit for my build and everything was labelled and packaged nicely and went together without a hitch.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:28 AM (celt+)

Ya know when someone is a regular at SHOT.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 06:30 AM (x3YFz)

46 It's probably been covered here: Arsenal Firearms is releasing a double barrel .45. Side by side barrels, comes in 2 configs, alternating l/r trigger pulls, or permanently fused triggers for double shot performance. Up at the Blaze...

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 06:32 AM (XLoA6)

47 "'I've been vanished, disappeared,' Mr. Metcalf, 67, said in an interview last month"

Yep. To be sure, he's been "disappeared". He got the quiet knock on the door at four in the morning, and there were a couple of Black Marias waiting outside, and after the dust settled, no one has seen hide nor hair of him since. All inquiries have returned a blank.

Other than, y'know, his giving interviews to the _New York Times_ and stuff.

Other than that, he's "been vanished", totes serious you guys!

It's just such an absolutely note-perfect rendition of the arrogance and ignorance that got Metcalf fired from his job in the first place.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 05, 2014 06:33 AM (gqT4g)

48 OK, Navycopjoe, I just dug out that issue of Gun Tests and it's in my lap. Bullet points:

Timney 668-S Trigger, small pin, 3-pound pull.

Grade: A.

"Practically fell in, installation is that easy."

"Single stage trigger with a mighty clean break."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:34 AM (celt+)

49 33. Of course at the bottom of the link there is an article about building your own AR He used a Wilson tactical

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:34 AM (dr6XJ)

50 46 Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 10:32 AM (XLoA6)

That's "unique."

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:35 AM (TE35l)

51 42. Sweet I'll see if one of the dealers have them If not it should be easy to order

Posted by: Navypopojoe at January 05, 2014 06:37 AM (dr6XJ)

52 alternating l/r trigger pulls, or permanently fused triggers for double shot performance.

-----------------

The latter makes it a machinegun under Federal law.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:37 AM (celt+)

53 That's "unique." 4,000 grains down-range in 5 seconds. Unique.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 06:37 AM (XLoA6)

54 Anybody think the new Remington DAO autoloader, in its art-deco look, all smooth with no corners to hook on your skivvies when pulling, looks cool? Word has it the gun will start shipping next month, available first in only 9mm, but later in a .40. Walther PPK-ish in look. I own a Sig P232, which is a .380, and am interested in a 9.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 05, 2014 06:38 AM (nxjFO)

55 Geissele, Wilson Combat, Timney, and Chip McCormick make great unitary drip-in triggers for the AR. Remember to wear good quality boots when stomping out the flames on your credit card though.

Oh, and fuck Dick Metcalf and every other disgraced "gun guy" who runs whining to the likes of the NYT after he pays the consequences of A) not remembering who butters his bread, and B) giving the antis even the slightest victory.

Switching topics: If this .22LR and reloading component shortage continue much longer, I'm going to start taking my frustrations out on innocent kittens. Maybe baby bunnies and ducklings, too. This has gone from ridiculous to ludicrous to insane.

Posted by: Jaws at January 05, 2014 06:38 AM (Rbtz3)

56 51 42. Sweet
I'll see if one of the dealers have them
If not it should be easy to order Posted by: Navypopojoe

----------------------

I hope so. Sadly, Midway had the Timney on sale for about $180 (I think) right before Christmas. They're $224 now and out of stock until July.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:40 AM (celt+)

57 "Mrs VIA just renewed her NRA membership last night."

Let mine lapse dog's years ago. No intent of renewing.

Never could or can get round NRA supporting the likes of Harry Reid.

Yes, I know the argument that the LaPierre types put forth, about how it's important to be seen as nonpartisan, and how it's important to actively encourage pro-gun Democrats to keep up their bona fides, yadda yadda yadda.

I hear that out patiently, and then I look at the sorts of loony-left 2A-hostile judges that Dingy Harry is frantically packing the federal courts with today, and shake my head sadly. The post-filibuster world is where the rubber meets the road, and where the rubber meets the road, NRA is roadkill crushed under the bus.

The LaPierre types confused temporary tactical political necessity on the part of slippery operators like Reid and Manchin for permanent durable strategic loyalties. More fools they.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 05, 2014 06:40 AM (gqT4g)

58 The latter makes it a machinegun under Federal law. Interesting, is that because you are discharging multiple rounds w/a single pull?

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 06:40 AM (XLoA6)

59 53 Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 10:37 AM (XLoA6)

Taro touched on my concern...

ATF may decide that because you can send successive double volleys downrange it is a duplex class machine pistol....

Yes it'd be horseshit, but there it is.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:41 AM (TE35l)

60 54 Anybody think the new Remington DAO autoloader, in its art-deco look, all smooth with no corners to hook on your skivvies when pulling, looks cool?

--------------------

I think it's the best-looking gun design since... well, I don't know what. Gorgeous.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:42 AM (celt+)

61 58 Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 10:40 AM (XLoA6)

No because you can do that multiple times without reloading. I happen to agree with you that it would/will be crap when they jedi handwave that ruling but they will make a ruling.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:42 AM (TE35l)

62 Interesting, is that because you are discharging multiple rounds w/a single pull?

--------------

Yep.

Of course, you can send eight buckshot projectiles out of a shotgun with one pull, too.

Gun laws are hi-lar-i-ous.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 06:44 AM (celt+)

63 Re: Double barrel .45, It's gimmicky, but still cool. I can't figure out the utility...maybe if I was trying to stop a vehicle speeding at me? It's be fun to plink w/I guess.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 05, 2014 06:44 AM (XLoA6)

64 62 Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:44 AM (celt+)

They're something alright...

It's a lot like the reason you can't have an Ithaca or a Winchester97 style pump shotgun sans disconnector that enables slamfire....

"derp it's a machine gun"

Well no it's not a machine gun it is using the pump as the motive force against an inert trigger your bicep is the trigger genius.

Thank you "sensible regulations" and today trial lawyers were we to win on those grounds in court scaring manufacturers off from having a fully featured pump gun.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:48 AM (TE35l)

65 I found that once the sensible gun regulations were pumped from my septic it drained better.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at January 05, 2014 06:51 AM (MhA4j)

66 65 Dept. Of Acuracy at January 05, 2014 10:51 AM (MhA4j)

My "sensible regulations" were made up of fingernails and other particulates.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 06:54 AM (TE35l)

67 A week or two ago i got some good suggestions here on what to do with the surplus pumpkins I had liberated from the community garden. Ny brother in law brought some tannerite to the party, so that's what happened to the pumpkins. The last one turned into orange mist. Plus, there were new Christmas pistols for everyone to try out. It was a great way for us and the kids to celebrate New Year's Eve at the ranch.

Posted by: stace at January 05, 2014 06:57 AM (AiZkN)

68 Know what else was in those Post Office safes? Special lightweight .38 Spl revolvers originally issued to USAF bomber crews. I don't think they were the aluminum frame models, but then I also don't know where the hell they went.

Our cage-man (senior registry clerk) had driven a tank for Patton, and had a B'klyn accent thick enough to walk on. Roughest, sweetest guy you'd ever want to meet. And his one and only superior, a New Woman, had commanded that the revolver be kept in one safe, and the ammo in the other. Both to be locked at all times. You should have heard him at the bar.

When they came out with sensitivity training, everybody pronounced "harass" the way Connery did in Cuba, to rhyme with "Harris," because they'd all heard old Jimbo refer to his supervisor as "Her Ass" for years.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 06:59 AM (xq1UY)

69 The R-51 has all that at a decent price.

Posted by: mrp at January 05, 2014 07:00 AM (HjPtV)

70 The double .45 would be a perfect sidearm for nightshift at the mall.

Posted by: RWC at January 05, 2014 07:01 AM (Q6HBD)

71 @ 63. Brave Sir Robin, "Double barrel .45. gimmicky but cool" That has to rank right up there with the 'Ice Cream Mans" 4 barrel 12 gage from the movie 'Phantasm".

Posted by: Judge_Roy_Bean at January 05, 2014 07:01 AM (NZd3s)

72 68 Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 10:59 AM (xq1UY)

It's fortunate that they kept them apart that way if you ever had reason to use the pistol in an emergency you'd know where the ammo and pistol were.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:02 AM (TE35l)

73 Of course, you can send eight buckshot projectiles out of a shotgun with one pull, too.

Gun laws are hi-lar-i-ous.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:44 AM (celt+)

My 00 has 9. x9 rounds I can theoretically put 81 lethal projectiles in motion in about 13 seconds.

Not a bad fire rate for $350.

Posted by: Andy Reid at January 05, 2014 07:02 AM (x3YFz)

74 70 RWC at January 05, 2014 11:01 AM (Q6HBD)

I carry two....

//Gekko45

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:02 AM (TE35l)

75 Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 11:02 AM (TE35l) Ever get the duck tape to fuse the body armor together? I know that caused you problems when saving the Governors son.

Posted by: RWC at January 05, 2014 07:05 AM (Q6HBD)

76 Finishing off my AR 6.8SPC build today. Used a an 80% lower as a big FU to California's new long gun registration law.

Posted by: Beer Ninja at January 05, 2014 07:07 AM (598AG)

77 75 RWC at January 05, 2014 11:05 AM (Q6HBD)

I had to use some jello mixed with petroleum jelly and silver sulfate as a bonding agent glazed with conductive not convective heat using ebony shims for thermal transfer.

Luckily the Chobam Armor protective cup gets here in a few days...boy is THAT a story.

//Gekko45

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:09 AM (TE35l)

78 "My brother in law brought some tannerite to the party, so that's what happened to the pumpkins. The last one turned into orange mist. Plus, there were new Christmas pistols for everyone to try out."

------------------

'MURICA!!!

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 07:09 AM (celt+)

79 Double-barrel rifles in .45? No problemo.

LINK: http://preview.tinyurl.com/o6wdefc

Posted by: mrp at January 05, 2014 07:10 AM (HjPtV)

80 Sven, that was the manager's thinking, more or less. Mostly less. As I said, it was worth the trip to hear the old tanker describe this thought process whilst in cups.

The trouble with the new Remington R-51 for me is that someone just had to say that it didn't look all clunky like the original mod.51, so I went and looked up the original and now I really want one of those. Damn handsome, like a pared-down Browning 9mm. What a gun looks like.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 07:10 AM (xq1UY)

81 76 Finishing off my AR 6.8SPC build today. Used a an 80% lower as a big FU to California's new long gun registration law.

--------------------

'MURICA!!!

(The people on this thread make me so damn proud every Sunday...)

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 07:10 AM (celt+)

82 A story of recovery: A friend here in Michigan got a phone call from one of the local Police Departments. It seems they had something that belonged to him. In 1984, someone broke into his house and one of the things stolen was a Ruger Security Six 357 Magnum revolver. Someone tried to sell it to a pawn shop in Tennessee recently. When the owner ran the numbers he found out it was stolen and confiscated it. My friend got a call a couple days before Christmas to come and get it. Since it was a long ride from his present home, he told them it might be awhile before he could get there. It turns out one of the cops lived less than 20 miles from my friends house. He drove to him, made sure the paperwork was complete and returned his gun which is in remarkably good shape. He thought he would never see that gun again. One heck of a Christmas present I'd say!

Posted by: Bill R. at January 05, 2014 07:10 AM (QnRSM)

83 I'd be stupid to buy this. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:20 AM (celt+) Oh PLEASE B'rer Horde! PLEASE don't throw me in that CZ briar patch again!

One more thing with the vz58, you can reload or top off with stripper clips without removing the mag.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 05, 2014 07:11 AM (MBqvE)

84 One more thing with the vz58, you can reload or top off with stripper clips without removing the mag. Posted by: IllTemperedCur

--------------

Oh, damn you...

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 07:14 AM (celt+)

85 80 Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 11:10 AM (xq1UY)

Assuming wife does not decide we are settling in a "no pistols" zone, I'll at a minimum try one out.

It *does* look similar to a meld of a HP-35 with some of the PPKs exterior rounded styling assuming a good sight picture and a sane DAO trigger it would possibly make an elegant CCW.

The "art deco" rounded contour is actually just what the doctor ordered for concealed carry.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:14 AM (TE35l)

86 82 Bill R. at January 05, 2014 11:10 AM (QnRSM)

Nice, he can get it returned to arsenal zero probably....

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:16 AM (TE35l)

87 @82 Awww. Sure hope that officer, actually doing his job, is at least One Fifth heavier this holiday season. Don't you just wish all cops were like that?

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 07:16 AM (xq1UY)

88 I think it's the best-looking gun design since... well, I don't know what. Gorgeous. Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 10:42 AM (celt+) The Kimber Solo was sort of the same deal, gorgeous except at three times the price and a crap shoot on reliability.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 05, 2014 07:20 AM (MBqvE)

89 No Sven. The new one looks Teh Ghey. The Original Remington Model 51 looks like it belongs in a man's hand. http://tinyurl.com/nofllok

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 07:20 AM (xq1UY)

90 89 Stringer Davis at January 05, 2014 11:20 AM (xq1UY)

I guess I'm bi then SD I like both...

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 07:26 AM (TE35l)

91 Re. .45 Auto Rim ammo:

Georgia Arms occasionally makes some, which I use in my reproduction S&W Model of 1950 - however, while the ammo is good, finding a speedy reloading method with the AutoRim ammo is a problem.

http://georgia-arms.com/ammunition.aspx

Posted by: JustDave in GR at January 05, 2014 07:30 AM (Hb4fY)

92 "The new one looks Teh Ghey. The Original Remington Model 51 looks like it belongs in a man's hand. http://tinyurl.com/nofllok " Meh. If it reliably facilitates my ability to get reasonably potent hits center-mass quickly, I don't care if it's colored pink, fires with a lisp, releases bits of potpourri with every round. --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 07:34 AM (8gaTv)

93 "There's little room for nuance," f u, there's NO room for nuance. Every gun person with two functioning neurons knows that outright ban is the only thing on the minds of gun grabbers. Any movement it that direction is just one step closer. If you are a gun person and you can't see that, you are like the people who actually thought obama would be anything more than shit as president.

Posted by: traye at January 05, 2014 07:41 AM (oT0dN)

94 This year marks my 40th anniversary as a NRA Life Member. Can't think of any other place to mention it, so you all get the news.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 05, 2014 07:42 AM (l3vZN)

95 Â“The time for ceding some rational points is gone. Damn right.

Posted by: RWC at January 05, 2014 07:46 AM (Q6HBD)

96 Lowest Police Officer Shooting Death Rate Since 1887 http://tinyurl.com/m5v7ulw

Posted by: BornLib at January 05, 2014 07:50 AM (zpNwC)

97 94 This year marks my 40th anniversary as a NRA Life Member.

----------------------

Well done, Jinx! I'm just a pup, almost twenty years of non-life membership.

No, the NRA is not perfect. But if not for them, we would have been limited to only bolties and duck shotguns long ago. I get very resentful at the "The NRA blows, they don't do 100% of what I want" crowd who have basically been free-riding off of people like us for decades.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 07:50 AM (celt+)

98 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 11:50 AM (celt+) Agreed. Not perfect, but damn powerful. Just wish they would have picked me to win the Tavor . Sad face.

Posted by: RWC at January 05, 2014 07:55 AM (Q6HBD)

99 Andrew B, if you're still here: Bought the kindle version of your book, about 1/2way through it - outstanding! (And left a review, as well). Re: potpourri - was in a shop a while back with a friend, made a disparaging comment about a pink semi. He told me "doesn't matter, still goes bang." Good point.

Posted by: speedster1 on the iPad at January 05, 2014 07:57 AM (noB3y)

100 I know everyone shits on the NRA for being the GOP establishment of a gun rights lobby, but also remember that they are responsible for nearly all the safety and basic training courses in the country. I wish they'd knock off with the over the top mailings and glossy tabloid style presentation of literature. Makes it seem like they are trying to sell to dumb people and it's not necessary.

Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston at January 05, 2014 08:06 AM (KCvsd)

101 I joined when I was 18, and didn't buy my first rifle until 83 or so when I started hunting. I was a contrary libertarian back then and joined because they were fighting for a right. As for the contests, I've never won a dern thing in my life!

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 05, 2014 08:09 AM (l3vZN)

102 92 Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 11:34 AM (8gaTv)

Utility is a beauty all its own.

Posted by: Sven10077 at January 05, 2014 08:10 AM (TE35l)

103 "Just wish they would have picked me to win the Tavor."

----------------

Tell me about it. Maybe Gallery of Guns will pick up the slack and give me the Ruger SR762.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 08:10 AM (celt+)

104 Years ago the NRA was less partisan, but then there were Donks worth supporting on the issue.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 05, 2014 08:11 AM (l3vZN)

105 97 Same could be said about the Republican Party. And IS.

Posted by: MAx at January 05, 2014 08:13 AM (b7yum)

106 How about a law requiring all houses without guns to display an illuminated sign - easily visible from the street - stating: "This is a gun free house."

The simple truth is that people who don't have guns are freeloading on the implied threat that they might have one to protect them.

The proposed law has the side benefit of spotlighting the Darwin Award candidates who would be stupid enough to actually display such a sign.

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] An Observation at January 05, 2014 08:13 AM (ylhEn)

107 103 Hey Taro I went out on the 1st again and lemme tell ya if they made an upper with 2 dust covers I'd buy it

Posted by: MAx at January 05, 2014 08:14 AM (b7yum)

108

The logic of the conclusions from the study is akin to the "logic" of the AGW cultists - but the uselessness of "gun control" for social objectives like reducing violent crime remains evident.

Concealed-carry laws being more restrictive in, say, a state like CA, which already has all the urban/judicial/social pathologies that always accompany high violent crime rates, is probably irrelevant. Correlation is not causation - as the man said while pointing to a complex un-modeled system like the troposphere and and the history of changing climate, and emphasizing that not enough is known to really "know" much.

Stated as a negative proposition - that, as far as can be determined, "gun control" does not reduce violent crime - it's fine. But let's try to rescue the civilization by making every tiny effort to restore logic and critical thinking to a role in our lives (even if only we are trying). Concealed carry should, common sense-wise, reduce violent crime, ceteris paribus. But demonstrating that would be immensely expensive and involved. Debunking the underlying assumption of "gun control" is sufficient.

Posted by: non-purist at January 05, 2014 08:19 AM (afQnV)

109 107 103 Hey Taro I went out on the 1st again and lemme tell ya if they made an upper with 2 dust covers I'd buy it Posted by: MAx

-----------------

LOL. Well, my new Spikes upper is fully dust-covered, so if I ever lose my mind and go out shooting in a Maine winter, she'll get a workout.

Maybe I'll work up a rabbit-fur flap and attach it to the carry handle as a "cow's knee" back-up.

Say, what lube are you using for cold temps, and how much? I'm guessing "something thin" and "very little."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 08:22 AM (celt+)

110

109 Cold temps are banned in socali. I use clp for everything because my Marine buddy said that's what they use for everything

Good thing about a 20 mph wind is that you always have an excuse for missing

Posted by: MAx at January 05, 2014 08:26 AM (b7yum)

111 57 .../snippage I hear that out patiently, and then I look at the sorts of loony-left 2A-hostile judges that Dingy Harry is frantically packing the federal courts with today .../snippage Posted by: torquewrench I was a member back in the late 80's till they kowtowed to Clinton and Reno with limp wristed opposition to the 1st AWB. Any group stupid enough to allow the Democrats the ability to continue the creation of the means to totally disarm the public through the courts will never get money from me. Their support of the Searchlight pederast and the WV liar sealed the deal even when they had the $300.00 life membership offer. In other news it looks like I just found my soon-to-be carry gun in no small part thanks to: 9 Excellent thread Andy. If I may throw some extra content inÂ…Remington releasing a new handgun. The R-51. http://tinyurl.com/kns29nb Posted by: BCochran1981 - Irish The only holdup in acquiring one appears to be availability.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at January 05, 2014 08:29 AM (IanLz)

112 Say, what lube are you using for cold temps, and how much? I'm guessing "something thin" and "very little."

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 12:22 PM (celt+)

Frog lube. http://tinyurl.com/n2pfq7z

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 08:37 AM (x3YFz)

113 "109 Cold temps are banned in socali. I use clp for everything because my Marine buddy said that's what they use for everything
Good thing about a 20 mph wind is that you always have an excuse for missing"

-----------------

Ahhh, so you need the dustcover because of actual dust.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 08:40 AM (celt+)

114 112 - thanks, Tangonine. I'll check it out.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 05, 2014 08:40 AM (celt+)

115 I love wheelguns and adore the design of the older Colt revolvers, although I think the Smith and Wesson K series--the Model 14 Target Masterpiece (which I luckily own) and the Model 15 Combat Masterpiece--are the most beautifully designed revolvers ever made. The trigger on my Model 14-2 Target Masterpiece, both single and double action, is the best trigger I've ever used. If I can't hit what I'm aiming at, I know it's me and not the gun.

Posted by: troyriser at January 05, 2014 08:46 AM (ptcFO)

116 <<If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread,>>

I dunno...maybe feature something like this every week.

http://tinyurl.com/l8n2gom

**Content warning: If' you're offended by a nasty, but hot chick with HUGE bazongas in a very tiny black bikini flipping you off with one hand and holding what looks like an AK 47 with the other...do not click

(Sorry to be so vague)

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 05, 2014 08:49 AM (cGaCp)

117 **Content warning: If' you're offended by a nasty, but hot chick with HUGE bazongas in a very tiny black bikini flipping you off with one hand and holding what looks like an AK 47 with the other...do not click

(Sorry to be so vague)

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 05, 2014 12:49 PM (cGaCp)

I'll add: "and then go kill yourself."

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 08:52 AM (x3YFz)

118 f it reliably facilitates my ability to get reasonably potent hits center-mass quickly, I don't care if it's colored pink, fires with a lisp, releases bits of potpourri with every round. --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense Posted by: Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 11:34 AM (8gaTv) If you get a chance, look up comments on gun threads regarding the Smith and Wesson Lady Smith revolver when you get a chance. Hilarious stuff. Lots of guys own them (they're great revolvers) but admit to more than a little embarrassment when they say they own them. It's like that line about that hunting poodle on Duck Dynasty: 'Good hunting dog but I wouldn't want to be seen with it.'

Posted by: troyriser at January 05, 2014 08:54 AM (ptcFO)

119 My brother just sent me a link to a touching tribute to Nelson Mandela

Posted by: MAx at January 05, 2014 08:57 AM (b7yum)

120 <<. It's like that line about that hunting poodle on Duck Dynasty: 'Good hunting dog but I wouldn't want to be seen with it.'>>

..or that line about fat girls and Mopeds

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 05, 2014 08:58 AM (cGaCp)

121 speedster1 on the iPad writes: "Bought the kindle version of your book, about 1/2way through it - outstanding! (And left a review, as well)." Hey, thanks for the kind words, always appreciated! Next step, come to one of our Law of Self Defense Seminars. :-) --Andrew,, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at January 05, 2014 09:16 AM (8gaTv)

122 Bang! Bang!!

Posted by: yo yo yo! at January 05, 2014 09:54 AM (o+MpZ)

123 Just making a last-minute post before I have to get back onto the road for ~6.5 hours....

My results from the "low-brass" modifications on my Saiga are mixed. I was only allowed to load two rounds within the skeet area I tested it and I found that the first shot would cycle perfectly but the second shot almost always failed to eject properly. If I were to load 10 rounds into the mag, would the first 9 function correctly? Stay tuned later this month.

It appears that I'm too much of a fatty to conceal carry my full-size USP so I may be returning that holster to Kholster (yay, 90 day unconditional return policy). I've had good luck with my LC9, though, so I guess I'll be sticking with that for conceal carry.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at January 05, 2014 09:58 AM (eIZld)

124 It appears that I'm too much of a fatty to conceal carry my full-size USP so I may be returning that holster to Kholster (yay, 90 day unconditional return policy). I've had good luck with my LC9, though, so I guess I'll be sticking with that for conceal carry. Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at January 05, 2014 01:58 PM (eIZld) I don't understand. I thought bigger guys (and gals) had an easier time with concealing full- or near full-framed pistols because of their greater mass. I'm the small-boned, wiry type, hence my Seecamp .32, which is my usual carry piece.

Posted by: troyriser at January 05, 2014 10:04 AM (ptcFO)

125 To be fair, I only gave it a quick test fitting before going on vacation. I'll try readjusting it before giving up and sending it back. Fatty-wise, I don't have a giant gut or anything while standing up; it's the sitting down where I've got a problem. I've got a neighbor who's skinny as a rail but can conceal carry a full size 1911 with zero problems.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at January 05, 2014 10:22 AM (eIZld)

126 76Finishing off my AR 6.8SPC build today. Used a an 80% lower as a big FU to California's new long gun registration law. Posted by: Beer Ninja Been thinking about that, too. Do you have machine tools or did you use the jigs they sell and a cordless drill? I asked my gun smith/FFL about doing it. He kinda shook his head and said some customers had brought in badly butchered lowers for help. Not real encouraging... btw, I'm just finishing my 6.8 build as well, unfortunately with a serial number on the lower. It took months to receive the barrel assembly! And not a minute too soon. The wild hogs are closing in all around the farmstead...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at January 05, 2014 10:33 AM (4DCSq)

127 I've got a Colt New Service, given to me by a family friend. It was taken off of a Mexican criminal in the early 1960s.

I was told that it was an M1917. It's been nickeled. Can't say when.

You couldn't hit the ocean from the flight deck of the U.S.S. Ronald Reagan with it. The funny thing is the bore looks just fine.

After close examination, it appears to be a genuine New Service rather than an M1917 that's been nickeled,. It's got the fancy three ring ejector rod knob rather than the simple M1917 knob.

As near as anyone can tell, somebody converted it from .45 Colt to .45acp with an M1917 or .45acp New Service cylinder. Unfortunately, at the time the gun was made .45acp barrels were .451-.452, while .45 Colt barrels were in the .455 range. The bullet fairly bounces down the barrel, keyholing frequently. One of these days, I plan to order some 230gr. round nose lead bullets sized for .455. I expect accuracy to improve markedly.

Posted by: Chris Morton at January 05, 2014 12:59 PM (bd/2L)

128 119 My brother just sent me a link to a touching tribute to Nelson Mandela

Posted by: MAx at January 05, 2014 12:57 PM (b7yum)

presented without context.

My first thought was "tribute to a guy who led a group of terrorists, who, were on the day of his arrest, planning to bomb schools?"

but, I'm a reasonable guy, so feel free to qualify.

Posted by: tangonine at January 05, 2014 01:53 PM (x3YFz)

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