Ace of Spades HQ

January 13, 2014

CLAIM: FAST & FURIOUS WAS PART OF SECRET DEAL WITH SINAOLA DRUG CARTEL TO SUPPLY THEM WITH ARMS IN EXCHANGE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR COMPETITORS
— Ace

I think the big headline is justified, but bear in mind the first word: Claim.

The program, supposedly, began in the year 2000.

An investigation by El Universal has found that between the years 2000 and 2012, the U.S. government had an arrangement with Mexico's Sinaloa drug cartel that allowed the organization to smuggle billions of dollars of drugs in exchange for information on rival cartels.

I didn't mention that part in the headline, the part about "allowing the organization to smuggle billions of dollars of drugs." The Fast and Furious inducement is more outrageous (if true).

...
Zambada-Niebla also alleged that Operation Fast and Furious was part of an agreement to finance and arm the cartel in exchange for information used to take down its rivals. (If true, that re-raises the issue regarding what Attorney General Eric Holder knew about the gun-running arrangements.)
A Mexican foreign service officer told Stratfor in April 2010 that the U.S. seemed to have sided with the Sinaloa cartel in an attempt to limit the violence in Mexico.

True? Bullshit? I don't know. As far as partisan/presidential blame, the narrative goes like this: The agreement (about permitting Sinaloa drugs to get through to the US in exchange for tips on rivals) is struck by Clinton. It "peaks" under Bush, in 2006, through Obama, in 2010, but at that point we seem to still be talking about laying off Sinaolo drug deliveries. I'm not sure if there is anyone blamed for the "arming the narcogangsters" by this narrative except for Holder and Obama.

It strikes me as hard to believe... and yet the government does things which are hard to believe.

Posted by: Ace at 12:48 PM | Comments (239)
Post contains 326 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Wow. Just wow!

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at January 13, 2014 12:49 PM (ZcS8q)

2 Oneth again?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 12:49 PM (0HooB)

3 Shazbot!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 12:49 PM (0HooB)

4 So Sons of Anarchy is real?

Posted by: Adam at January 13, 2014 12:50 PM (Aif/5)

5 I'm pretty sure that's the exact plot of a season of Sons of Anarchy.

Posted by: C.T. at January 13, 2014 12:50 PM (kP3oK)

6 Letting one side win does tend to limit the violence.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 13, 2014 12:50 PM (ZPrif)

7 BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 13, 2014 12:51 PM (GrtrJ)

8 Sooo, we now have a Most Favored Illegal Drug Importer Status now? China is jealous.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 12:51 PM (0HooB)

9 Remember when that respected news anchor read something on the internet about missiles in Long Island sound ....

Posted by: Jean at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (4Pkdw)

10 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (PYAXX)

11 Authorities always care more about "keeping the peace" than law enforcement.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (ZPrif)

12 Ha! The US Government picking winners and losers again!!!

Posted by: chiefjaybob at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (XL6E3)

13 Did this clusterfuck just get more clusterfucked? Hey, AllenG has started a Writers Group. The Yahoo Group has the details. Join up if you're interested.

Posted by: L, elle at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (ETCgz)

14 So it's kinda like Iran vs. Iraq, though intranational instead of international?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (julzE)

15 Of the people, for the peop...yeah. This "Government" of ours is seriously out of control.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at January 13, 2014 12:52 PM (ZcS8q)

16 Letting one side win does tend to limit the violence.
That was always my strategy.

Posted by: Vic Mackey at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (Ua6T/)

17 So when did Hillary know of this deal in the waning days of her husband's administration?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (sA4/D)

18
QuÃ© diferencia hace?

Posted by: Doctor Fish at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (pJF+c)

Now Way!

Next you will try to tell me we are arming serious Jihadi's in Syrai?

Say it aint so bro.

Posted by: Avg. Joe at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (q+zA9)

20 Importing the drugs Americans just won't import.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (0HooB)

21 The feds cut a deal with the mafia in WW2 to suppress German sabotage* in the docks. So there's a history of making deals with bad people to handle other bad people. *Which was a huge problem in WW1.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (h53OH)

22 So... "the program" which was very much NOT Fast & Furious, but was, instead drug smuggling operation (not significantly better, but at least it didn't *require* civilian murders to be effective). Fast & Furious (the actual arming of forces hostile to an allied nation) is still right on TFG's doorstep.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (PYAXX)

23 Sadly.... who knows.... Because my tinfoil hat has become a symbol that I was Prescient..... either that... or paying attention... Just because there are Fake conspiracies out there (9/11 Truthers) does not mean there are not REAL conspiracies that happen as well.

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 13, 2014 12:53 PM (lZBBB)

24 I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Posted by: prescient11 at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (tVTLU)

25 If one examines the mess in Mexico, it is difficult to see how it continues without protection of or involvement by government. Either as 'government' or some people who hold government positions.

In the US a good example are meth labs. One can't imagine meth being cooked, distributed, and sold without some notice by someone. Then you read about urban neighborhoods who see drugs being sold on street corners who can't get local government interested in solving the problem.

Posted by: Wuthering Tights at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (nVKed)

26 Believeable? I dunno. Which cartel took over Mexico City back in those years?

Posted by: Bigby's Oven Mitts at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (3ZtZW)

27 Crony Cartelism

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (g4TxM)

28 Kinda make you wonder what the Mexican governments (national and states) thought about this.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (julzE)

29 Sounds like a typical government program to me

Posted by: Ambassador Stevens at January 13, 2014 12:54 PM (Pr6hk)

30 Holder/Obama unable to distinguish between shit and SINAOLA

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (aDwsi)

31 "HuffPo: there's no "recovery" on the lower end. Dollar store sales sagging. "...The fact that so many Americans are being forced to curtail spending at the cheapest discount retailers should give anybody cheering the US recovery something to think about..."[Purp]"

No problem, it's just that we are all shopping at Neiman-Marcus now.

Posted by: American Consumer at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (1Rgee)

32 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 13, 2014 04:53 PM (PYAXX) Except that hard drugs kill thousands in this country every year... And we are at 'War' with drugs.... enough that they are limiting our Constitutional Protections.

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (lZBBB)

33 This still doesn't make any sense. Why were they forcing FFLs to sell to known straw purchasers? Why not just slip them the money and let the cartels use their connections to acquire the weapons? I keep coming back to the Obama administration using this as a catalyst to gin up anger against the US legal gun sale industry.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (IoTdl)

34 So Bush did it too even though what Bush (via Clinton) is alleged to have done is turn the other way in exchange for information, or, you know the sleazy sleazy deals that happen and it was Obama that said here have some guns too and Bush didn't do that? That is only a sort of snarky question, I'm trying to get the timeline right. Also hasn't this been speculation for awhile? That Fast and Furious was an attempt to pick a side in the Mexican narcowars?

Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (VtjlW)

35 CLAIM: FAST & FURIOUS WAS PART OF SECRET DEAL WITH SINAOLA DRUG CARTEL TO SUPPLY THEM WITH ARMS IN EXCHANGE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR COMPETITORS, but at what cost?

Posted by: soothsayer in The Room at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (ixub4)

36 OK gotta run

Posted by: Bigby's Oven Mitts at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (3ZtZW)

37 Yawn.

It's not like this deal fucked up traffic on the GW Bridge or anything serious like that.

Posted by: Jaws at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (4I3Uo)

38 Well, Eric Holder was in the Clinton Administration...

Posted by: David Koresh at January 13, 2014 12:55 PM (Pr6hk)

39 Alternate headline: "True, but Stoopid:"

Is sounds like the pussified version of operating against threats that Holder and Obama have negotiated.

As opposed to just using force and the force of law to crush these people- because that's all they understand.

What's next: "Administration made Deal with Mexican Government to Supply Chamber of Commerce Members with Cheap, Illegal Immigrants. Border and Customs Told to "Look the other way""

Posted by: Marcus at January 13, 2014 12:56 PM (GGCsk)

40 I don't believe it. Pre-SCoaMF, such a thing would have been considered so politically suicidal that there is no way Clinton or Bush would have ever assented to it.

Posted by: toby928© at January 13, 2014 12:56 PM (QupBk)

41 great, so at what point did the CIA invent crack to keep the black man down?

Posted by: oeJay44incday at January 13, 2014 12:56 PM (QxSug)

42 Would a current in-trouble person try to lay blame on predecessors?

Naaaaaaaaah.

Posted by: Memories at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (hSZWw)

43 And we are at 'War' with drugs.... enough that they are limiting our Constitutional Protections. So it's both the War on Drugs and the War on Terror where the gov't took the other side, now...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (naUcP)

44 Kind of sounds like Alex Jones territory to me.

Posted by: huerfano at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (bAGA/)

45 I am a little confused why we just didn't provide the Sinaloa Cartel with a pointy end of some bullets?

Posted by: Marcus at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (GGCsk)

46 is struck by Clinton. It "peaks" under Bush, in 2006, through Obama, in 2010 ****** Hmmm...

Posted by: Hawaii at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (RJMhd)

47 But if this is true, how would eliminating the other cartels fix the violence and drug problem if Sinaola still existed? What would the GOVT's logic be in going with that arrangement?

Posted by: Nate at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (i3OIF)

48 But more importantly, how did the Sinola drug cartel's website work?

Posted by: GuyfromNH at January 13, 2014 12:57 PM (3Liqf)

49 Well, Eric Holder was in the Clinton Administration...

Too busy coordinating the Rich pardon?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (julzE)

50 Early OT- Breitbart (reading tea leaves) predicts SCOTUS slapdown of NLRB appointments possibly by 8-1 or 9-0 margin. We shall see.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (g4TxM)

51 In the late 90s, I did two counter-narcotics deployments to Central and South America. Even at that time, there were some strange goings-on in the "Drug War," but at that level, all we could do was get pissed off with the feeling that something was screwy, but nothing we could put our fingers on.

Posted by: Country Singer at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (VFbB9)

52 34 AlexTheChick, Correct. Oddly Gabe and I discussed prosecutorial discretion earlier on twitter... This is "charming."

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (TE35l)

53 The US Government offered the cartel badges for its members, but they said they didn't need them.

Posted by: eman at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (bXZ4G)

54 The concept behind Fast and Furious sounds kinda okay. Follow the guns to see where they go. Except the Bush administration had already tried it and failed.

Wide Receiver allowed a limited number of weapons with tracers to slip across the border where the Mexican police were supposed to make arrests. Except the tracers did not always work and weapons vanished. So Wide Receiver was shut down.

Fast and Furious skipped the tracers and informing the Mexican police.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (sA4/D)

55 yeah, I saw this in last season's SONS OF ANARCHY

Posted by: soothsayer in The Room at January 13, 2014 12:58 PM (ixub4)

56 what difference, at this point, could it possibly make? Also, I don't see how this helps Michelle Obama feed her kids. signed, xxoo the liberal wonk gap in effect

Posted by: oeJay44incday at January 13, 2014 12:59 PM (QxSug)

57 No! No! You are supposed to use poisoned Zafiro AÃ±ejo!

Posted by: zombie gustavo fring at January 13, 2014 12:59 PM (Rax2C)

58 As far as the story goes, I call BS. there would many easier ways to give the cartel guns than letting mules buy them one-by-one (mostly) and then having law enforcemant let them cart the weapons across the border.

Posted by: West at January 13, 2014 12:59 PM (1Rgee)

59 Most of gang violence in drug wars is over turf. Multiple gangs with roughly equal power equals lots of violence. One uber-dominant gang is less violent, nobody has any hope of taking them out so they don't try.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (ZPrif)

60 If the goal was actually providing arms to the cartel, Fast and Furious was just about the most retarded way I can think of to go about it. Evil and stupid.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (P/gm7)

61 Did I miss a movie review for Lone Survivor?

Posted by: Paladin at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (hxLER)

62 Holder/Obama unable to distinguish between shit and SINAOLA Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 13, 2014 04:55 PM (aDwsi) *** Heh!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (g4TxM)

63 At this point, anything is believable. That said, I cannot possibly imagine George W personally approving the flow of drugs into the US. Never, ever. Hence....I call bullshit. Now, F&F and the current administration, well, that is a horse of a different color.

I DENOUNCE MYSELF FOR THE LAST LINE, but you noamean.

Shit. I denounce myself again for the "noamean."

Posted by: eureka! at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (xiXna)

64 On one hand, it's possible. On the other, I smell a lot of deflection..."eight years of Bush, oh and that nasty insufficiently-progressive Hillary husband, started it, too...what could we have done to stop it?" If they're all involved, hang 'em all.

Posted by: JEM at January 13, 2014 01:00 PM (o+SC1)

65 Seamus, I predict 8-1; Ginsburg seemed to be drinking Kool-Aid during the hearing

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (julzE)

Anna Puma,

You are exactly correct. Wide Receiver made sense, even if it didn't work. Mexico was in on the sting. And almost all arrests were made BEFORE any weapons changed hands.

Fast and Furious was fucking insanity.

Posted by: prescient11 at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (tVTLU)

67 So it's all Bush and Clinton's fault? Obama is just a pawn in game of life....

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (9+ccr)

68 45 I am a little confused why we just didn't provide the Sinaloa Cartel with a pointy end of some bullets? Posted by: Marcus at January 13, 2014 04:57 PM (GGCsk) I was thinking why we would need to get info from one cartel about the others - we cannot get our own? Oh, right...information gathering resources are being directed at citizens instead.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (LIQGY)

69 30 Holder/Obama unable to distinguish between shit and SINAOLA --- Thank's for saving me from making that pun

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (SO2Q8)

70 They said that if I voted for Romney the government would help flood low income urban areas with cocaine, and they were right.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (SY2Kh)

71 Oddly Gabe and I discussed prosecutorial discretion earlier on twitter... Talk about things that need to absolutely go away. The abuses under "prosecutorial discretion" are absolutely out of hand.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 01:01 PM (naUcP)

72 The US Government offered the cartel badges for its members, but they said they didn't need them.

Posted by: eman

ISWYDT!

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at January 13, 2014 01:02 PM (yZwfe)

73 there would many easier ways to give the cartel guns than letting mules buy them one-by-one (mostly) and then having law enforcemant let them cart the weapons across the border. It's not like we didn't capture a million AK's in Iraq that could just be shipped to Veracruz.

Posted by: toby928© at January 13, 2014 01:02 PM (QupBk)

I want to see the documents supporting this.

Strange that this has been going on since 2000 and there were no witnesses/whistleblowers until F-F.

Posted by: Soona at January 13, 2014 01:03 PM (lG8Uj)

75 toby, except the gold AKs would be a bit tacky...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:03 PM (sA4/D)

76 toby, except the gold AKs would be a bit tacky...

No they weren't.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 13, 2014 01:03 PM (julzE)

77 OT - Which 'ette just got busted in suburban Baton Rouge for living the AOS lifestyle? Link in name.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (/Crba)

78 So it's all Bush and Clinton's fault? Obama is just a pawn in game of life.... As if we didn't already know, this is the first effort to keep Cankles' reputation clean for her upcoming 2016 run. She'll just say she didn't know and that'll be that. Old news, dontchaknow.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (0HooB)

79 Thank's for saving me from making that pun Posted by: Buzzsaw -------------------- It had to be done. Someone had to take one for the team. Oh, and...Moron down!

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (aDwsi)

@63At this point, anything is believable. That said, I cannot possibly imagine George W personally approving the flow of drugs into the US.

-------------------

I have to agree. As a recovering alcoholic, Bush is the last person I'd expect to allow drugs into the country. For that matter, I can't really see Clinton agreeing to it either, since it'd wreck his political reputation when it came out (and these things *always* come out). Of course, I probably would have thought that Obama would be smart enough to ignore something like this too... right up until Fast and Furious came to light.

Posted by: junior at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (UWFpX)

81 Two Words: IRAN-CONTRA

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (Djwm9)

82 The US Government offered the cartel badges for its members, but they said they didn't need them. The bandeliers & sombreros were supposed be a dead give away.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (CRyse)

83 I was only having sex with those strippers because they gave me information about which other girls were actually hookers. And, mission accomplished, I stayed away from the hookers.

Posted by: wooga at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (h68p/)

I can't see that in thousands of DEA employees, there would not be a whistle blower among them if this was true. At least the allegations that billions of dollars of drugs were allowed to be imported.

My vote. Bullshit.

Posted by: polynikes at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (m2CN7)

85 At this point, what difference does it make?

Posted by: Ready for Hillary! at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (vgIRn)

86 This sounds like something Hedley Lamarr would cook up.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 13, 2014 01:04 PM (8ZskC)

87 86 This sounds like something Hedley Lamarr would cook up. --- Well what will that asshole think of next?

Posted by: Taggart at January 13, 2014 01:05 PM (/Crba)

88 At least the Sinaloa Cartel is honest. The Potomac Cartel extorts half my wages, gives me no protection, and interferes with my life directly

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 13, 2014 01:05 PM (ZRWZG)

89 Mongo is merely a pawn in life, Gaylord not so much.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:05 PM (sA4/D)

90 Still need more proof than one article in a Mexican newspaper.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (ZPrif)

91 For that matter, I can't really see Clinton agreeing to it either, since it'd wreck his political reputation when it came out (and these things *always* come out). Mena Airport, Mena, Arkansas.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (CRyse)

92 Times likes this, I wonder "What would Brian Boitano do?".

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (ZshNr)

93 I find the lack of harrumphs from you guys disturbing.

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (QupBk)

94 I was only having sex with those strippers because they gave me information about which other girls were actually hookers. And, mission accomplished, I stayed away from the hookers. There's a strange, beautiful, tortured logic there. Or a beautiful, tortured logic about strange. I forget which.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (yz6yg)

95 Actually, this was designed to help the Chicago Cartel distribute its opiates to the masses in the form of "endemic gun violence"

Posted by: 18-1 at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (P3U0f)

96 It's not like we didn't capture a million AK's in Iraq that could just be shipped to Veracruz.
No. They were sent to Libya and Syria.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at January 13, 2014 01:06 PM (Rax2C)

97 Mena Airport, Mena, Arkansas. --- Oh, the stories I could tell... if a bunch of asshole Cubans hadn't hit me at a Salvation Army halfway house.

Posted by: Zombie Barry Seale at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (/Crba)

98 What little coverage FAF got in the media tried to blame Bush already..... If I recall it was a different program?

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (9+ccr)

99 My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (8ZskC)

100 I can't see that in thousands of DEA employees, there would not be a whistle blower among them if this was true. At least the allegations that billions of dollars of drugs were allowed to be imported. Billions of $$$? Asked & answered.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (CRyse)

101 Times likes this, I wonder "What would Brian Boitano do?". I am REALLY going to have to take AllenG's "no drinking while reading AoSHQ" rule to heart.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (yz6yg)

102 92 Times likes this, I wonder "What would Brian Boitano do?". Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 05:06 PM (ZshNr) I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (LIQGY)

103 Toby, did you win the knockout tourney?

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 01:07 PM (ZshNr)

104 So it's all Bush and Clinton's fault? Obama is just a pawn in game of life....
___
I still remember when I read about my marriage in the newspapers. Marriage! to a ...woman...shocked the hell out of me.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (P3U0f)

105 103 92 Times likes this, I wonder "What would Brian Boitano do?". Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 05:06 PM (ZshNr) I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two. --- Brian, watch out, those chicken wings are really spicy!

Posted by: DVDA at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (/Crba)

106 Damn, she blew a .28? Seven times over the limit? Amazed she was even able to unlock the car door

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (ZRWZG)

107 "rustlers, cutthroats, arsonists..."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (sA4/D)

108 "organization to smuggle billions of dollars of drugs in exchange for information on rival cartels." Um...not buying it. You know how people can move from Google to Yahoo and AOL, and not get shot? And they have trade shows? And industry associations? And sell a legal product? Even with all that, who pays Yahoo execs under the table to learn what's going on at Google?

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (5xmd7)

109 didn't Busines Insider just publish a communist manifesto for the US?

are they aiming to be the sister publication of Rolling Stone?

Posted by: jb at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (3tdHf)

110 Toby, did you win the knockout tourney? Me? No, I was 3-1. Vendette is the only one I know that went 4-0 to win your parlay.

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (QupBk)

111 Brian, watch out, those chicken wings are really spicy! Posted by: DVDA at January 13, 2014 05:08 PM (/Crba) I've never seen a man eat so many chicken wings!

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:08 PM (LIQGY)

112 104 Toby, did you win the knockout tourney? --- I thought his real name was Kunta Kinte.

Posted by: DVDA at January 13, 2014 01:09 PM (/Crba)

113 I'm calling bullshit. This regime will concoct anything and launder information through 3rd and 4th party constituents just to get the F-F shit off their shoes.

Posted by: Soona at January 13, 2014 01:09 PM (lG8Uj)

114 It's not like we didn't capture a million AK's in Iraq that could just be shipped to Veracruz.
No. They were sent to Libya and Syria.

Posted by: andycanuck at January 13, 2014 05:06 PM (Rax2C)

---

Yeah, those deals gave me a hell of a headache.

Posted by: Amb Stevens at January 13, 2014 01:09 PM (P3U0f)

115 Obama is so vile that even scurrilous claims would appear to be within the realm of plausible.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 13, 2014 01:09 PM (bb5+k)

116 There's a strange, beautiful, tortured logic there. She's still going to kneecap you, y'know.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 01:09 PM (naUcP)

117 there would many easier ways to give the cartel guns than letting mules buy them one-by-one (mostly) and then having law enforcemant let them cart the weapons across the border Not if a sub part of that was to eliminate the 2nd Amendment.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (CRyse)

118

@99What little coverage FAF got in the media tried to blame Bush already..... If I recall it was a different program?

-----------------

Yeah, the program under Bush was "Wide Receiver", which was different in two important respects. First, there was an actual attempt to track the guns via implanted trackers. Second, the Mexican government was notified beforehand (common courtesy, since things are being smuggled into their country). With Fast and Furious, there was no attempt to track the guns (and apparently some ATF agents who attempted to keep an eye on things anyway were directly ordered not to), and the Mexican government was not informed that the US government was allowing large numbers of weapons to be smuggled into Mexico.

Posted by: junior at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (UWFpX)

119 So in this retelling who will play Lily von Schtupp? Valerie? Michelle? Susan? Bo?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (sA4/D)

120 Oh, Congrats to Vendette! I conked out before the end of the second game. 3-1 ain't bad. I was 2-2.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (ZshNr)

121 107 Damn, she blew a .28? Seven times over the limit? Amazed she was even able to unlock the car door --- Locals are expecting her employer, a private school, to get sued by the guy she hit because they sent her home knowing she was drunk instead of giving her a cab ride or a place to sleep it off.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (/Crba)

122 She's still going to kneecap you, y'know. As long as she's a ginger, it's all good.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (yz6yg)

123 So, the administration and members of congress got free blow as part of the deal?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (eGmvn)

124 Anna Puma, You are exactly correct. Wide Receiver made sense, even if it didn't work. Mexico was in on the sting. And almost all arrests were made BEFORE any weapons changed hands. Fast and Furious was fucking insanity. Posted by: prescient11 at January 13, 2014 05:01 PM (tVTLU) Yup. Wide Receiver at least makes sense conceptually. We know guns are being trafficked. We'll do a standard sting operation and track the guns. All relevant authorities are notified. It didn't work and it was discontinued which is a minor shock in and of itself. Fast and Furious is insane. Here! Haz All The Guns! Aren't you going to track them? Hmmm, what? Wasn't there some similar ridiculousness going on with gangs in Indiana being armed?

Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at January 13, 2014 01:10 PM (VtjlW)

125 Who is Doodad Pro?

Posted by: --- at January 13, 2014 01:11 PM (MMC8r)

126 Even with all that, who pays Yahoo execs under the table to learn what's going on at Google? You could, of course, pay the Google execs to find out what's up at Yahoo...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 01:11 PM (naUcP)

127 126 Who is Doodad Pro? --- Someone the government is less interested in finding than John Galt.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:11 PM (/Crba)

128 Not if a sub part of that was to eliminate the 2nd Amendment. Remember when all the "stories" of guns found in Mexico were from the US because gun dealers were illegally selling them? It was all a set up to clamp down on gun sales..... Backfired, excuse the pun...

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (9+ccr)

129 So, the administration and members of congress got free blow as part of the deal?
___
Hell no. All lies. Damn does anyone feel like running a marathon now? Or like mountain biking? WOOO FUCKING WHOOOOOOOO!!!!

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (P3U0f)

130 The program, supposedly, began in the year 2000. cLiNtON!!111111 wait...wait... BoOOOOOOSSSsshhhh!!111! No, wait...... ClInToN!!!!!!11 No.....it wasn't Hillary, so wHO CarES!!!!1111!!!

Posted by: Leftist Kingmakers INC. at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (HgIh3)

131 I had thought Bush's deal was quite different in operation Football(?)
In that the guns were tracked to find out who was running guns and who were the cartels involved in shooting up the country?

With Mexico govt Involved and involved and knowledged?

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (nqBYe)

132 Who is Doodad Pro?
***
Barack Obama's biggest fan?

Posted by: 18-1 at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (P3U0f)

133 The fact that the cartel lawyer was in on it first makes the murder of a different cartel's lawyer last year at an upscale shopping center in Southlake, TX that much more interesting. Dead guy was sitting in the passenger seat of his SUV (wife in driver's seat) and what had to be a professional walked up and got him. Wife, sitting 3 or so feet away, uninjured. Police recovered 9 or so shell casings and the majority of the hits were upper torso. I think it was even still light outside, 7 pm or so in the summer.

Posted by: the other coyote at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (yK44T)

134 Sinaloa, sweet chariot comin' for to carry me home.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 01:12 PM (g4TxM)

135 You could, of course, pay the Google execs to find out what's up at Yahoo... Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 05:11 PM (naUcP) And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that?

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (LIQGY)

136 isn't the cartel mentioned the ones trying to take over Mexico?

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (nqBYe)

137 71 Brother Cavil, Gabe refused to acknowledge that CO's pot law, and MO's gun law are almost morally equal. If Eric "my people" Holder can willfully ignore CO flouting Fed Law and regulation why can't a state redefine "gun", outlaw SEC regs etc etc?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (TE35l)

138 In fairness, the Obama ATF had a plan to track the guns, based on which murder scene they showed up at.

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (QupBk)

139 "88 At least the Sinaloa Cartel is honest. The Potomac Cartel extorts half my wages, gives me no protection, and interferes with my life directly

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 13, 2014 05:05 PM (ZRWZG)"

Not only that, but no deductibles and no co-pay when you get drugs from them.

Posted by: West at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (1Rgee)

140 And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that?
___
I've got a pretty serious stash. Want to feel Stimulated?

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 13, 2014 01:13 PM (P3U0f)

141 nevermind.

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:14 PM (nqBYe)

142 isn't the cartel mentioned the ones trying to take over Mexico?
___
What? That's my favorite gas station?!?

Posted by: Joe Biden at January 13, 2014 01:14 PM (P3U0f)

143 It would have been smarter during the Bush years to ask Mexico, here have a couple SEAL teams. Point them on who to kill like the Zetas. And its all completely black.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:14 PM (sA4/D)

144

@138
If Eric "my people" Holder can willfully ignore CO flouting Fed Law and regulation why can't a state redefine "gun", outlaw SEC regs etc etc?

-------------------

Better question - why can't the State of Arizona enforce Federal Laws?

Posted by: junior at January 13, 2014 01:15 PM (UWFpX)

145 Did anyone hear something?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:15 PM (yz6yg)

146 find the lack of harrumphs from you guys disturbing.

Harrumph.

Posted by: HR at January 13, 2014 01:15 PM (ZKzrr)

147 What we need to do is spend billions and billions of dollars tracking every cell phone call and email of private US citizens, while handing out weapons to drug cartels and turning a blind eye to their drug shipments and mule deliveries.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 13, 2014 01:15 PM (eGmvn)

148 And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that? Facebook!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (CRyse)

149 I've got a pretty serious stash. Want to feel Stimulated? Posted by: Barack Obama at January 13, 2014 05:13 PM (P3U0f) We laugh at your so-called 'stash', shitferbrains.

Posted by: Google Exec #582 at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (LIQGY)

150 "126 Who is Doodad Pro?"

The correct question is "What is Doodad Pro?"

Our finest product.

Posted by: Buttplugs International at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (1Rgee)

151 Ah yes. The sweet, sweet sound of TB3K spooling up.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (yz6yg)

152 Why would we need to bribe a cartel to help them fight their rivals? Wouldn't that be a pretty good inducement on its own? And the guns used to bribe them are sourced at local gun shops with paper trails and BATF video surveillance? This has to be bullshit.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (+lsX1)

153 Nah, that couldn't be willow. No new thread yet... :

Posted by: Brother Cavil, still chilly at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (naUcP)

154 And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that

---

american govt?

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:16 PM (nqBYe)

155 I missed a smashing by the TB3K?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:17 PM (sA4/D)

156 Brother Cavil, well it would be typical.

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:17 PM (nqBYe)

157 What we need to do is spend billions and billions of dollars tracking every cell phone call and email of private US citizens, while handing out weapons to drug cartels and turning a blind eye to their drug shipments and mule deliveries. Priorities!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:17 PM (0HooB)

158 uh oh, who got smooshed?

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:17 PM (nqBYe)

159 145 Junior, Correct... "supremacy" is a joke if the court takes a look around.... The Constitution is burning

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2014 01:18 PM (TE35l)

160 151 "126 Who is Doodad Pro?" The correct question is "What is Doodad Pro?" Our finest product. Posted by: Buttplugs International at January 13, 2014 05:16 PM (1Rgee) --- I swear, those weren't mine! Someone was just playing a joke on me!

Posted by: Jennifer Lawrence's Bleached Pucker at January 13, 2014 01:18 PM (/Crba)

161 And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that

american govt?
___
The presses can't take much more cap'n. Were giving her all we've got!

Posted by: Chief Engineer Geithner before leaving the printing presses at January 13, 2014 01:19 PM (P3U0f)

162
"It strikes me as hard to believe..."

Sounds like BS to me also.

Posted by: Mohammad Mohammad - Asst. Manager Tehran TOWS R Us

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 13, 2014 01:19 PM (kdS6q)

163 "War" on Drugs my ass.

Posted by: CAC at January 13, 2014 01:19 PM (n8Aq9)

164 Posted by: Mohammad Mohammad - Asst. Manager Tehran TOWS R Us
___
I hate that dude.

Posted by: Saddam Hussein at January 13, 2014 01:19 PM (P3U0f)

165 Sinaloa, sweet chariot

comin' for to carry me home.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 05:12 PM (g4TxM)

fcol Seamus you made me lugh.

a distorted sick laugh, but a laugh.

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:20 PM (nqBYe)

166 War" on Drugs my ass. Drugs are bad umkay.... Unless we can tax the hell out of them ,then ...legal!

Posted by: hello, it's me also a creep-assed cracka.. at January 13, 2014 01:20 PM (9+ccr)

167 What good would it do even if they were listening to most cellphone calls. Ordering a pizza sounds like "Hi, yeah, I'll have a large. Cash. Pick up. Half an hour, got it. " Drug deal sounds like...

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 01:20 PM (ZshNr)

168 Meh, if it doesn't show up in Snowden's stolen files its BS.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at January 13, 2014 01:20 PM (baiNQ)

169 "Gray, Jack! Shades of gray!" --R. Ritter Except Bob Ritter was competent. Holder is more like Vice Admiral Cutter. Incidentally, that quote above was not in the (far superior) book.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 13, 2014 01:21 PM (R+XDI)

170 Eh - looking at the actual articles I'm seeing a lot of claims by Zambada-Niebla. But the only detail confirmed by DEA agents is that one of them met with an associate of Zambada-Niebla circa 2009 and that he may have assisted them with a bust on another dealer.

For some reason I don't find the word of a drug lord facing life in prison particularly credible by itself. I'd like to see some more evidence of his claims.

Posted by: Mætenloch at January 13, 2014 01:21 PM (pAlYe)

171 Yeah, the program under Bush was "Wide Receiver", which was different in two important respects. First, there was an actual attempt to track the guns via implanted trackers. Second, the Mexican government was notified beforehand (common courtesy, since things are being smuggled into their country). With Fast and Furious, there was no attempt to track the guns (and apparently some ATF agents who attempted to keep an eye on things anyway were directly ordered not to), and the Mexican government was not informed that the US government was allowing large numbers of weapons to be smuggled into Mexico. Posted by: junior at January 13, 2014 05:10 PM (UWFpX) Gee....almost like someone wanted to stir up anti-Gun fervor. But, they wouldn't do that, huh? Nah...not the Marxist skidmark and his merry band of Rectal Commandos. Never....

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 13, 2014 01:21 PM (HgIh3)

172 It seems like legalizing and regulating drugs would have been a far easier solution to destabilizing drug cartels and preventing violence. But what do I know? I'm no super smart governmentz man.

Posted by: taylork at January 13, 2014 01:21 PM (ppNDn)

173 168 What good would it do even if they were listening to most cellphone calls. Ordering a pizza sounds like "Hi, yeah, I'll have a large. Cash. Pick up. Half an hour, got it. " Drug deal sounds like... --- Yes, I'll have a large eight-piece box with a large coke and a straw... And an order of brownies.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:21 PM (/Crba)

174 OT...we're saved!

Hoosier participation in Obamacare surged in December

http://is.gd/zATJAE

Oh wait, maybe not.
In the three months covered by the report, nearly 43,000 Hoosiers were determined to be eligible for Medicaid through the exchange, more than the number of people who have selected a private insurance plan.

And without the expansion. Derp.

Posted by: HR at January 13, 2014 01:22 PM (ZKzrr)

175 oh but thanks to the govt , our kids will have enough meth and crack to keep them insane and holding up the prison system first hand?

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:22 PM (nqBYe)

176 "War" on Drugs my ass. They never wanted it won. Too much untraceable $$$.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:22 PM (CRyse)

177 I say B.S. Way too much potential for political Armageddon if it came to light to be retained through three administrations. However, it has the advantage of actually making sense, in an insane sort of way, whereas the official government explanation of F&F makes no sense at all.

Posted by: Socratease at January 13, 2014 01:22 PM (SZUi2)

178 Me n 'nother guy made deliveries to this little warehouse at one of those southern California municipal airports, the general aviation kind. And we had to wait for dispatch to find us something. So we parked the trucks at the end of a dead end street where we wouldn't be blocking anything, and walked over to this little lunch counter shop with windows looking out over the runways.

So we're sitting there and the guy behind the counter says, 'those guys are dea', and we both shrugged. "We don't care. We're just waiting on dispatch. What are they doing here anyway?"

The guys says, "so many planes come in here carrying drugs the DEA guys have an office here at the airport."

The place reminded me of the stories you used to read about those bootleg truck stops back in the '20's.

Posted by: Retired Truck Driver at January 13, 2014 01:23 PM (nVKed)

179 "Gray, Jack! Fifty shades of gray!" -- Rosalyn Ritter
Jack Robin Shadow Recruit.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 13, 2014 01:23 PM (sA4/D)

180
And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that?

The Feds trading not prosecuting Google for their assorted financial or other business naughtiness doesn't cost anything, but is quite compelling.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 13, 2014 01:23 PM (kdS6q)

181 Yeah, the program under Bush was "Wide Receiver", which was different in two important respects. First, there was an actual attempt to track the guns via implanted trackers. Second, the Mexican government was notified beforehand (common courtesy, since things are being smuggled into their country). With Fast and Furious, there was no attempt to track the guns (and apparently some ATF agents who attempted to keep an eye on things anyway were directly ordered not to), and the Mexican government was not informed that the US government was allowing large numbers of weapons to be smuggled into Mexico.
Posted by: junior at January 13, 2014 05:10 PM (UWFpX)

---
this is how i remember it going down.

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:23 PM (nqBYe)

182 171 Maet, Stratfor is very hit and miss on sub strategic data. Grains of salt, but not beyond belief sadly.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2014 01:24 PM (TE35l)

183 162 And who has enough money to bribe Google execs to do that american govt? ___ The presses can't take much more cap'n. Were giving her all we've got! Posted by: Chief Engineer Geithner before leaving the printing presses at January 13, 2014 05:19 PM (P3U0f) Why would they even try to bribe them? It would be like trying to bribe Bill Gates into illegally parking in a handicapped spot. The consequences are probably as meaningless as the rewards, really.

Posted by: Google Exec #582 at January 13, 2014 01:25 PM (LIQGY)

184 The Sinaloa drug cartel would have given the Government information about their competitors for free. As such, allowing them to do anything seems stupid. Giving them guns on top of that seems immoral to say the least. Gun control still seems to make more sense, even though it also seems more "implausible" because the out-of-control Communist Government would never do anything evil.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 13, 2014 01:25 PM (DhGW2)

185 I always figured that StratFor was a front for some intelligence agency.

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:25 PM (QupBk)

186 Wasn't there some similar ridiculousness going on with gangs in Indiana being armed? Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at January 13, 2014 05:10 PM (VtjlW) Hide posts from (VtjlW) It was at least nicknamed "gangwalker" and a lot of the buyers were in Chicago. There was also a program targeting Honduras (one wonders - re: the political shenanigans). Also, I fear this rumor will just further conflate F&F with previous programs. there is a qualitative difference. Then again, it's not like the law will ever be enforced on the enforcers again. You know, at least if I was a LIV I wouldn't have a series of micro-strokes every time I looked at the news.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 13, 2014 01:26 PM (qyfb5)

187 177 "War" on Drugs my ass. ----------- They never wanted it won. Too much untraceable $$$. Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 05:22 PM (CRyse) ...and a whole lot of power given to waaaay over-empowered Gestapo Jr. law enforcement types who get off on fucking with people.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 13, 2014 01:26 PM (HgIh3)

188 FAST & FURIOUS WAS PART OF SECRET DEAL WITH SINALOA DRUG CARTEL TO SUPPLY THEM WITH ARMS IN EXCHANGE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR COMPETITORS Who picked the winner & losers & why?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:26 PM (CRyse)

189 perhaps the drug lord will get a nice stipend for his family or a light sentence for the dem assist

Posted by: willow at January 13, 2014 01:27 PM (nqBYe)

190 There's also a "raced element," of course, given that neither Eric "My People" Holder nor Barack "If I had a son" Obama are Hispanics. MSNBC to look into it never.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 13, 2014 01:27 PM (DhGW2)

191 Also, I fear this rumor will just further conflate F&F with previous programs. Bingo. Cui bono?

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:27 PM (QupBk)

192 I was introduced to the Patriot movement about 20 years ago. Frankly, aside from our different money investing strategies, I think the militia dudes were onto something. I just hate camping. But Danny Casolaro, the Octopus, Bank of Crooks and Criminals International....I ain't surprised if the gov't tries to make money off the white powder.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at January 13, 2014 01:28 PM (Ec6wH)

193 "Except that hard drugs kill thousands in this country every year...

And we are at 'War' with drugs.... enough that they are limiting our Constitutional Protections."

Well, thousands less than alcohol and thousands less than prescription medication kill but it's true that ~15,000 die from illegal drugs each year.

The War is against people who use drugs. It's impossible to wage war against an inanimate object. That doesn't stop people from trying, though, despite it being impossible to best an inanimate object at war.

And it seems you missed the fact that our constitutional protections have been limited and chipped away by politicians and law enforcement attempting to execute the War on Drugs. Forced colonoscopies and innocent people gunned down during no-knock drug raids ring a bell?

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at January 13, 2014 01:28 PM (kUgpq)

194 Welcome to the world of "Nothing Surprises Me Anymore."

Posted by: tangonine at January 13, 2014 01:28 PM (x3YFz)

195 Saving or creating a lot of blow jobs seems like the sort of thing Clinton would do, though.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 13, 2014 01:28 PM (DhGW2)

196 Who picked the winner & losers & why? --- Supposedly, the Vic Mackey principle of "Having a chosen winner will keep the streets safer" was in play. Given what TJ and Ciudad Juarez look like these days, I think it is safe to say it didn't work.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:28 PM (/Crba)

197 189 rickb223, There's an insurgency or 6 in Mexopolis... Real secession movements.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 13, 2014 01:29 PM (TE35l)

198 I've seen this movie before.

There was a drug cartel member in Chicago about 2 or 3 years ago who claimed he couldn't be prosecuted because of this "deal" ...

Zambada Niebla also claims to be an asset of the US government. His allegation was laid out originally in a two-page court pleading filed in late March with the US District Court for the Northern District of Illinois in Chicago.

The latest allegations being advanced by Zambada Niebla, who is now being held in solitary confinement in a jail cell in Chicago, are laid out in motions filed late this week in federal court. Those pleadings spell out the supposed cooperative relationship between the US Department of Justice and its various agencies, including DEA and the FBI, and the leaders of the Â“Sinaloa CartelÂ” Â— including Zambada Niebla.

Posted by: Drugs-R-Us at January 13, 2014 01:29 PM (e8kgV)

199 Still, not as bad as arming drug cartels for no rational reason whatsoever.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 13, 2014 01:29 PM (DhGW2)

200 "Who is Doodad Pro?"
===============

I'm just a man in love.

Posted by: Doodad Pro at January 13, 2014 01:29 PM (H84UO)

201 The War is against people who use drugs. It's impossible to wage war against an inanimate object.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at January 13, 2014 05:28 PM (kUgpq)

Not sure I agree. I waged a personal war against a pipe fitting under my sink this weekend.

Posted by: tangonine at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (x3YFz)

202 Kill them all and let god sort them out.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (XUKZU)

203 Would it be a surprise if the little ballerina was sent in to "control" the turf wars and flow of payoffs in jolly old Chicago, a sweet, sweet gun free zone?

Posted by: Fritz at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (UzPAd)

204 'A lot of assault rifles in every drug cartel!' Or, at least, the drug cartels Obama likes.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (DhGW2)

205 I saw Zambada Niebla open for Santana at the Garden in '82.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (yz6yg)

206 So this whole thing started under BUSH, huh? That's what I figured! And it paved the way for Obama to make a few innocent mistakes. What was he supposed to do?

Posted by: Typical Media Jerkoff at January 13, 2014 01:30 PM (H84UO)

207 Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at January 13, 2014 05:28 PM (kUgpq) Death from medical mistakes is what, 200,000+ in the US each year? Yeah, self-administered drugs that the law currently prohibits are the real danger here.

Posted by: Google Exec #582 at January 13, 2014 01:31 PM (LIQGY)

208 "I saw Zambada Niebla open for Santana at the Garden in '82."
===============

Lot of chicks there.

Posted by: Kensington at January 13, 2014 01:31 PM (H84UO)

209 Sweet Ursa Minor.
http://is.gd/uAvf6J

Someone check on me in a few hours, my spleen might rupture from laughter.

Posted by: HR at January 13, 2014 01:31 PM (ZKzrr)

210 Kill them all and let god sort them out. You knowÂ….5 years ago I would have dismissed that as emotionally satisfying bluster. Now, I'm not so sure that it isn't the actual solution.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 13, 2014 01:32 PM (yz6yg)

211 Okay, just had to scratch the itch and watch a YouTube clip of South Park's Brian Boitano song. Can't believe that was way back in 1999.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 13, 2014 01:32 PM (ZshNr)

212 The question with F&F was always 'How was this ever supposed to work?'

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:32 PM (QupBk)

213

I don't buy any of it. I cannot envision President George W. Bush cutting a deal of any sort with a Mexican drug cartel. And while I can easily envision Clinton and Obama cutting nefarious deals of one sort or another, I can't imagine either doing it when the risks are so high. Both are too canny to equip murderous, psychopathic Mexican drug lords with the means to destroy their presidencies.

In my view, all this story does is muddy the waters and obfuscates President Obama's role in Fast and Furious. The paranoid, conspiratorial side of my nature thinks this is probably the intent of the article. So does the rational, logical side. We're in agreement.

Posted by: troyriser at January 13, 2014 01:33 PM (gNlvW)

214 Who picked the winner & losers & why? --- Supposedly, the Vic Mackey principle of "Having a chosen winner will keep the streets safer" was in play. Given what TJ and Ciudad Juarez look like these days, I think it is safe to say it didn't work. But who decided Sinoala would be the "sanctioned" cartel with all of the others as "bad guys"?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 13, 2014 01:33 PM (CRyse)

215 Nude

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 13, 2014 01:33 PM (/Crba)

216 off, sockblocker

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:33 PM (LIQGY)

217 I saw Zambada Niebla open for Santana at the Garden in '82. He's not called The Master of the Pan Flute for nothing.

Posted by: toby928© crosses the memes at January 13, 2014 01:33 PM (QupBk)

218 207 So this whole thing started under BUSH, huh? That's what I figured! And it paved the way for Obama to make a few innocent mistakes. What was he supposed to do? Posted by: Typical Media Jerkoff at January 13, 2014 05:30 PM (H84UO) ********** If Mark Wahlberg ever makes a movie about this-- I will HAVE to ask him how his devote CATHOLICISM conflicts with his taking the role.

Posted by: Jaek Tapper at January 13, 2014 01:34 PM (RJMhd)

219 218 I saw Zambada Niebla open for Santana at the Garden in '82. He's not called The Master of the Pan Flute for nothing. --- He can play a Pan Flute, but can he play a skin flute?

Posted by: Jugears O'Fuckstick at January 13, 2014 01:35 PM (/Crba)

220 Death from medical mistakes is what, 200,000+ in the US each year? **** Dubious number. Citation?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 01:35 PM (g4TxM)

221 Not sure I agree. I waged a personal war against a pipe fitting under my sink this weekend. Posted by: tangonine at January 13, 2014 05:30 PM (x3YFz) In times like these, the Milwaukee Sawzall is your best friend.

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:35 PM (LIQGY)

222

This is the Mexican government's gift, via the Mexican newspapers, to the dems for keeping the southern border open.

Why not? It's just as believable as the story itself.

Posted by: Soona at January 13, 2014 01:35 PM (lG8Uj)

223 Dubious number. Citation? Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 05:35 PM (g4TxM) Kinda gay for a reference, but here's one: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/opinion/more-treatment-more-mistakes.html?_r=0 Quote: "But a reasonable estimate is that medical mistakes now kill around 200,000 Americans every year. That would make them one of the leading causes of death in the United States. Why have these mistakes been so hard to prevent?"

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:37 PM (LIQGY)

224
The latest allegations being advanced by Zambada Niebla, who is now being held in solitary confinement in a jail cell in Chicago
Posted by: Drugs-R-Us

If you're wondering, I'm going to hang myself in my cell/get shot while attempting escape, next Friday -- around 11-ish.

Pass it along.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 13, 2014 01:37 PM (kdS6q)

225 Been known at Sipsey Street for a long, long time.

Posted by: Phelps at January 13, 2014 01:37 PM (1xfHM)

226 Haven't read the comments so I apologize if this has already been noted. Look at where the majority of those drugs were running to . Chicago.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 13, 2014 01:39 PM (P6QsQ)

227 >>>It strikes me as hard to believe... and yet the government does things which are hard to believe.

Well when the other options for F&F are

1. The admin was so mind numbingly incompetent bordering on outright significant mental defect they thought it was a good idea.

2. The real plan was blood chilling calculus, featuring the total depravity of tracking guns by waiting for them to show up with dead bodies.

3. The bitter, unbelievable, and horrific theory that they were politically maneuvering by inventing an American weapons problem in Mexico that they would solve with Gun Control in America and the dead bodies while very real were merely props for this stage show.

This kind of crazy looks plausible.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 13, 2014 01:40 PM (0q2P7)

228 Dubious number. Citation? Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 13, 2014 05:35 PM (g4TxM) Hide posts from (g4TxM) Current estimates range from 210k to more than twice that. http://bit.ly/1cXxgya http://bit.ly/1cfPqYn

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 13, 2014 01:40 PM (qyfb5)

229 Am I on an effing dead thread? *sigh*

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 13, 2014 01:44 PM (qyfb5)

230 Been known at Sipsey Street for a long, long time.

Posted by: Phelps at January 13, 2014 05:37 PM (1xfHM)

Yeah, a lot of things are 'known' over there. Citing them as an authority for anything other than how-to instructions for home-made shaped charges gets you nowhere. They're like LGF with guns instead of bicycles.

Posted by: troyriser at January 13, 2014 01:48 PM (gNlvW)

231 Posted by: troyriser at January 13, 2014 05:48 PM (gNlvW) Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw on a fat guy a few days ago. It read: "I'm in shape. Round is a shape."

Posted by: model_1066 at January 13, 2014 01:51 PM (LIQGY)

232 Those medical error numbers are *very* dubious. I think they include any patient who had any error, including trivial bullsh*t like I ordered a dose of baby aspirin but the nurse gives a regular aspirin. The patient who got a double dose of Tylenol for his fever and subsequently died from his sepsis didn't die because of the f*cking Tylenol, but it is reported as a medical error to the state in a patient who died.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 13, 2014 01:59 PM (R+XDI)

233 Gabe and my exchange on "nullification" and "neutralization"

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 13, 2014 02:03 PM (TE35l)

234 sven, any second thoughts on jailing pot smokers since the same government jailing them is running a dope ring? no, I didn't think so. we had to import dope to stop dope importation.

Posted by: X at January 13, 2014 02:16 PM (KHo8t)

235 235 X at January 13, 2014 06:16 PM (KHo8t)

Oh look it's my stoner buddy...

Hey X I just got a message from the land of give a fuck

"find someone who does"

Ounces, pounds, or tonnes my herbal life friend?

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 13, 2014 02:22 PM (TE35l)

236 Ace: "True? Bullshit? I don't know." We rumor-monger -- you decide!

Posted by: Defroomius Bandersnatch at January 13, 2014 04:42 PM (w45V0)

237 After all that campaign noise that Team Obama was going to be so much smarter than the Bush Administration, we are constantly met with the refrain ... "Bush did it too"

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at January 13, 2014 05:44 PM (e8kgV)

238 No bridges were closed in the making of Holder's disastrous f up.

Posted by: Buffalobob at January 13, 2014 07:26 PM (RZBmV)

239 If true, its actually far less evil than what is more likely the reason for Fast & Furious: Obama & various Dems had long contended that gun violence in Mexico was a result of gun availability in the US, to support their desire to curb our 2nd Amendment Rights. But, it simply wasn't true. So, they made it true with Fast & Furious. That's why they didn't bother tracking ANY of the guns they walked. It was never a "sting", as Holder and co. claimed repeatedly. The whole point was simply to get lots of guns traceable to the US to be found as murder weapons in Mexico. Then, point to this fact to push gun control in the US. The ONLY thing that went "wrong" with the operation, the only place the plan actually failed, was when a few BATFE agents and gun store owners started blabbing the truth. The fact that the US govt was deliberately supplying the weapons was supposed to stay secret.

Posted by: Aarradin at January 14, 2014 03:46 AM (4T3FG)

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