Ace of Spades HQ

February 18, 2014

James Clapper: Maybe If We Told the American People What Was Going On With Our Warrantless Collection of Metadata, the Public Would Have Accepted It
— Ace

Eli Lake interviewed Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Clapper. There are two grabby quotes.

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Beast, Clapper said the problems facing the U.S. intelligence community over its collection of phone records could have been avoided. Â“I probably shouldnÂ’t say this, but I will. Had we been transparent about this from the outset right after 9/11Â—which is the genesis of the 215 programÂ—and said both to the American people and to their elected representatives, we need to cover this gap, we need to make sure this never happens to us again, so here is what we are going to set up, here is how itÂ’s going to work, and why we have to do it, and here are the safeguardsÂ… We wouldnÂ’t have had the problem we had,Â” Clapper said.
Â“What did us in here, what worked against us was this shocking revelation,Â” he said, referring to the first disclosures from Snowden. If the program had been publicly introduced in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, most Americans would probably have supported it.Â”

Clapper then claims he didn't commit perjury in his Congressional testimony. You will recall that Ron Wyden directly asked him if the NSA collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

Clapper said: "No."

This was false.

His defense is twofold -- and his alternate defenses seem to contradict each other.

First, he claims that it was improper for Wyden to ask the question when he knew the answer was classified. This, he says, put him in a "when did you stop beating your wife" situation.

Note, however, that that defense suggests that Clapper knew what Wyden meant.

But his other defense is that he thought Wyden was talking about something else:

Clapper told The Daily Beast that he simply misunderstood WydenÂ’s question. At the time of the hearing last March, Congress had just finished consideration of a bill to renew the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Section 702 of that legislation gives the National Security Agency the authority to collect the electronic communications of non-U.S. persons. In his question, Wyden asked initially if the United States had collected Â“dossiersÂ” on American citizens and referred to an answer to this question by then NSA director, Keith Alexander.

Either he knew what Wyden meant or he didn't. He's calling "splunge" -- Wyden trapped me improperly, and I did my best to observe my duty to avoid disclosing a classified program, and also I thought he was talking about something else, whether we collected "dossiers." Note that he didn't consider this last question a matter of classified information.

Â“I was not even thinking of what he was asking about, which is of course we now all know as section 215 of the Patriot Act governing the acquisition and storage of telephony business records metadata,Â” Clapper said. Â“WasnÂ’t even thinking of that.Â” The director of national intelligence said he thought WydenÂ’s question was actually about section 702 of FISA.

Clapper finishes up by saying no one can prove what he meant when he said "No."

Â“There is only one person on the planet who actually knows what I was thinking,Â” Clapper said of his testimony from last March. Â“Not the media, and not certain members of Congress, only I know what I was thinking.Â”

Update from DrewM.: Drew says this by email.

Reminder...Wyden told Clapper a day in advance he was going to be asked the data collection question.
[Link to story establishing that Wyden's question had been submitted in advance.]
With that notice Clapper didn't have a better plan than perjury?

Correction: I claimed Clapper was "head of the NSA" because, frankly, I was high. Like off-my-face zonked on spray paint and nail thinner.

Baldilocks has corrected me. He's DNI, not head of the NSA.

Posted by: Ace at 08:28 AM | Comments (254)
Post contains 676 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Rope... Lots and lots of rope.

Posted by: Dick (@DicksTrash) at February 18, 2014 08:31 AM (GrtrJ)

2 Oh for Pete's sake. He said, very firmly, "No." Then he scratched that balding dome, and added, "Not wittingly." I'm not a Daily Show fan, but I loved the Brit's comment, to the effect that a spy is NOT supposed to have that big a "tell."

Posted by: JPS at February 18, 2014 08:33 AM (rtyRn)

3 Hi honey!!!! #1

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (0MVzQ)

4 When I said 'yes', that I would uphold the Constitution, only I know what I was thinking.

Posted by: James Clapper at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (aDwsi)

5 "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (EPEqj)

6 I hate these people.

Posted by: Caunotaucarius at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (SHvfC)

7 We are in the best of hands.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (ZPrif)

8 When I said 'yes', that I would uphold the Constitution, only I know what I was thinking. Posted by: James Clapper ------------------- I know, I know..., same for me.

Posted by: Barky at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (aDwsi)

9 Prosecute him for lying to Congress. NOW. Discovery will be a hoot.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:34 AM (JpC1K)

10 Yeah, right, those Lefties squealing about the Patriot Act and their precious library history would have been A-OK with it.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 08:35 AM (POpqt)

11 only I know what I was thinking.Â” Great defense. Up is down. Black is white. True is false.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: sun worshipper. beach lover. at February 18, 2014 08:35 AM (IXrOn)

12 He said, very firmly, "No." -------------- Period.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 08:35 AM (aDwsi)

13 What difference does it make?

Posted by: President Hillary Clinton at February 18, 2014 08:35 AM (JQuNB)

14 I'm sorry, I'm not aware what terror plot you're talking about.

Posted by: James Clapper at February 18, 2014 08:35 AM (Aif/5)

15 Clap on. Clap off.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 18, 2014 08:36 AM (kVfSG)

16 Maybe If The NSA Chief Didn't Look Like A Creepy Pedophile, the Public Also Would Have Accepted It

Posted by: X at February 18, 2014 08:36 AM (KHo8t)

17 Words mean nothing, now.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette: sun worshipper. beach lover. at February 18, 2014 08:36 AM (IXrOn)

18 Â“If the program had been publicly introduced in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, most Americans would probably have supported it.Â” Bush's fault. Okay now the MSM can report on it.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (qIFL7)

19 except as the writer of the Patriot Act stated this was way beyond the scope of the Written Act.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (nqBYe)

20 and eli lake? srsly?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (nqBYe)

21 It depends on what your definition of 'No' is.

Posted by: James Clapper at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (dhkk+)

22 Ahhh... you are correct... we do now know what you were thinking Clapper... NOR DO WE CARE! Its you ACTION, your LIE, that is perjury.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (84gbM)

23 Also, the media was all out to expose whatever methods the *Bush* administration made in finding terrorists - the Wash Post and NYTs published several damaging front-page stories revealing our intelligence methods.

So I doubt the public - or the media bent on knee-capping Bush - would have been OK with it.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (POpqt)

24 I must agree with the "Rope. Lots & lots of rope" comment. Hang 'em high.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 18, 2014 08:37 AM (ix+5k)

25 that's one secret muslim convert that needs to end up in prison.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (HEa5q)

26 The reason why Snowden is in trouble is NOT because he revealed info our enemies did not know. They always would have thought that we are listening regardless. Snowden revealed the information to the American people, and that is what threatened the program. Remember when George Bush wanted to listen to foreign terrorist? Remember the hue and cry then? Yeah, Clapper, you've got it right. Maybe if you had told us what you were up to, we would have said, sure, go ahead. Liar.

Posted by: blaster at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (4+AaH)

27 it depends on what the definition of the word 'no' is.

Posted by: Things I learned from Bill Clinton at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (/PH15)

28 It's only perjury if there is a chance you will be prosecuted for your lies. In Illinois, Kevin Trudeau is in prison for lies told on late night infomercials about weight loss products. Now that is perjury.

Posted by: ejo at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (GXvSO)

29 look honey i know you were afraid that bad man was going to sneak into your home again and harm the children.

So now i will just set up a spy cam without your knowing and watch YOUR actions 24/7.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (nqBYe)

30 When I said, "no" I didn't mean no in the way you think of no, I meant no in the way I think of no. Which may or may not be the way you think of no. Or not.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 18, 2014 08:38 AM (0MVzQ)

31 22 Ahhh... you are correct... we do now know what you were thinking Clapper... Grrr.... we do NOT know... fumble fingers this morning...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:39 AM (84gbM)

32 If the program had been publicly introduced in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, most Americans would probably have supported it. Bullshit. I can accept the government having the ability to track my every phone call, read all my e-mail, trace my internet searches, tap my phone. But first they must ~~blow me~~ show some smidgen of proof to a judge and get a warrant for the information. That, in a nutshell, is where the program has gone off the rails.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at February 18, 2014 08:39 AM (CnA98)

33 Â“There is only one person on the planet who actually knows what I was thinking,Â” Clapper said of his testimony from last March. Â“Not the media, and not certain members of Congress, only I know what I was thinking.Â”

That's just straight up racist.

Posted by: Marmo at February 18, 2014 08:39 AM (QW+AD)

34 Awww. The Chewbacca defense.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:39 AM (Hx5uv)

35 @LL U WingNUTS R,NUTZ n U can ALL GO FK URSEF for the GD of US,

Posted by: Cher at February 18, 2014 08:40 AM (OZmbA)

36 I know my own truth!!!

Posted by: Clapper at February 18, 2014 08:40 AM (BAS5M)

37 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 08:40 AM (PYAXX)

38 30 When I said, "no" I didn't mean no in the way you think ---------- Like when you drug a teenage girl and she's saying "no" she's not really saying "no" no, right James?

Posted by: Whoopi at February 18, 2014 08:40 AM (Aif/5)

39 And note... To date? NONE of these programs have stopped. They are still spying on us. Now they 'tell' us they have more safeguards on their program... But these are the same people who lied to us about what they were doing in the first place.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:40 AM (84gbM)

40 >>Remember when George Bush wanted to listen to foreign terrorist? Remember the hue and cry then?

Remember the Valerie Plame kerfuffle? That was nothing and the MSM and Left milked it for years. Can't imagine what would have happened if the NSA stuff had been revealed.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 08:41 AM (POpqt)

41 yeah remember when the calls watched were the ones going and coming from Foreign countries on the Terrorist watch list?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:41 AM (nqBYe)

42 In my experience, "No" actually means "Yes".

Posted by: Serial Rapist at February 18, 2014 08:41 AM (W7ffl)

43 Either he knew what Wyden meant or he didn't. He's calling "splunge" -- Wyden trapped me improperly, and I did my best to observe my duty to avoid disclosing a classified program, and also I thought he was talking about something else, whether we collected "dossiers." Note that he didn't consider this last question a matter of classified information. Top.Men.

Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 08:41 AM (aTXUx)

44 When I said, "No I won't deposit my baby batter in your mouth, only I knew what I was thinking"

Posted by: Jimmy Clapps at February 18, 2014 08:41 AM (27KAF)

45 When I said, "no" I didn't mean no in the way you think of no, I meant no in the way I think of no. Which may or may not be the way you think of no. Or not. Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 18, 2014 12:38 PM (0MVzQ) thanks, that clears it up

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at February 18, 2014 08:42 AM (R8hU8)

46 Look, it wasn't "No" no, you know.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at February 18, 2014 08:42 AM (qIFL7)

47 So "Senator, I'm not going to discuss that on the record" was not a valid response?

Posted by: joncelli at February 18, 2014 08:42 AM (RD7QR)

48 I'm willing to give Clapper some benefit of the doubt regarding his testimony. It's entirely possible that he didn't fully consider the metadata to be "collecting information on millions of Americans".

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 08:42 AM (SY2Kh)

49 Well you know, when you get caught in a lie and have nowhere to turn, you get real creative in your self rationalization and defense.
That said, I am not entirely opposed to warrantless wiretaps. I just don't want them listening in on EVERYTHING. If you are taking note of suspected terrorists or supporters, if you're poking in on the bad guys who are trying to kill and destroy us, I am far more willing to give you leeway.
And I know, as the FISA court does, that sometimes there isn't time to get a court order to do a tap. Do it then justify it later in court. That's fine, too, if you have to.
That's why I tended to defend the Bush administration when they were doing this. They weren't tapping everyone, everywhere as far as I could tell, just the bad guys and people trying to talk to them.
And the left went berserk about it. Now, with a president doing the same thing AND FAR FAR MORE they are shrugging and voting for him again. Then, after the election is over, faking quiet outrage in a single facebook post.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (zfY+H)

50 We would have said "No". That was the whole reason it was secret in the first place.

Posted by: BVBigBro at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (NEsAE)

51 You can't handle the truth. No, wait. I can't handle the truth. well, somebody can't handle the truth.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (Hx5uv)

52 Ya think? Do these people check their brains at the door when they accept federal employment?

Posted by: Harry at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (ao2LR)

53 Loved Ron Wyden's work on bass with the Rolling Stones.

Posted by: Count de Monet at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (BAS5M)

54 I saw Warrantless Collection of Metadata open for Rage Against the Machine in '92.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (pgQxn)

55 I see we are back to the got caught balls deep cheating defenses. A. I didn't do it. 2. Baby, it's not like that. III. It was only that once, it didn't mean anything. Quattro. Hey, you know I have needs, you weren't doing anything about it. Cinc. You ignored me! I told you what I needed! This is all your fault!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (VtjlW)

56 Clapper is an idiot with a shovel who does not know when to stop digging.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (t3UFN)

57 >
" only I know what I was thinking.Â”

Some say Putin could beat it out of him.

Posted by: 13times at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (fGPLK)

58 I want the TRUTH about plastic snow and Chemtrails!

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (7ObY1)

59 Clapper is the DNI, not the NSA chief.

Posted by: baldilocks at February 18, 2014 08:43 AM (36Rjy)

60 Â“What did us in here, what worked against us was this shocking revelation,Â” he said, referring to the first disclosures from Snowden. If the program had been publicly introduced in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, most Americans would probably have supported it.Â” Thing is... he's probably right. The "Someone Save Us!" mentality was running dominant just then. Enough so that it got Congress to create a new Cabinet post (Secretary of Homeland Security), a new Executive Branch office (DHS), and implement the Patriot Act. More than a few Conservatives thought it was a great idea. More than a few *also* threw a caution flag, but they were generally ignored or pooh-poohed into silence. None of that changes the fact that, on due reflection, warrantless wiretapping, and the mass collection of "telephony metadata" are gross violations of the 4th Amendment.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (PYAXX)

Take it from the ladies, Clapper, no means no.

Posted by: Heralder at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (/Mxso)

62 Hey they only call me that because of my last name, totes pinky swear!

Posted by: The Clap at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (Aif/5)

63 In Latin Fascism (aka American 2025) news: Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews Witnesses say Venezuelan opposition leader Lopez hands himself over to security forces - @Reuters http://bit.ly/1kSjyT2

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (ZPrif)

64 benefit of the doubt?
you mean the Man whose job it is to Know what They are doing?

seems to go around a lot now days.

yeah. ok.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (nqBYe)

65 When he says "pepperoni, hand tossed, double cheese" it is a call to invade the White House.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (Hx5uv)

66 46 Look, it wasn't "No" no, you know. No, I meant to say "No, it wasn't "No" no, you know."

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (qIFL7)

67 Â“There is only one person on the planet who actually knows what I was thinking,Â” Clapper said of his testimony from last March. Â“Not the media, and not certain members of Congress, only I know what I was thinking.Â” No one knows when I'm thinking of Kate Upton having my baby Doesn't make it a truth or even plausible

Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 08:44 AM (aTXUx)

68 You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 18, 2014 08:45 AM (t3UFN)

69 MurderO in Venezuela is, impressively, actually worse than Chavez.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:45 AM (ZPrif)

70 Well...

That's ok then.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 18, 2014 08:45 AM (BZAd3)

71 Hmmm... Â“When I use a word,Â’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, Â‘it means just what I choose it to mean Â— neither more nor less.Â’ Â’The question is,Â’ said Alice, Â‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.Â’ Â’The question is,Â’ said Humpty Dumpty, Â‘which is to be master Â— thatÂ’s all.Â” Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you, the Humpty Dumpty Defense...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:45 AM (84gbM)

72 Even with all this data, they missed the giant neon signs the Joker brothers were. Scrap it all if it can't even stop the obvious terror threats.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at February 18, 2014 08:46 AM (9Bdcz)

73 When she said "no", I understood it as a Clapper no.

Posted by: Roman Polanski at February 18, 2014 08:46 AM (QW+AD)

74 Maduro. MurderO. MadBurro. The Mustachioed Mad Murderer Maduro.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:46 AM (ZPrif)

75 I find the I didn't know defense a ongoing issue in this administration.

so no one knows anything?
yet They are in charge of our defense? our finance?
our every govt agency?

is anyone actually a responsible worker?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:46 AM (nqBYe)

76 Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 12:42 PM (SY2Kh) So you'll offer a defense for him that he hasn't even offered for himself? He doesn't say, "Oh, well, I said 'no' because I didn't think of the metadata as 'information on millions of Americans.'" He says, "Oh, well, that was classified so he shouldn't have asked, and anyway I thought he meant something else." No, he gets no benefit of the doubt here. He has admitted to perjury and is trying to back-fill to make it look like he isn't.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 08:47 AM (PYAXX)

77 Maybe If The NSA Chief Didn't Look Like A Creepy Pedophile, the Public Also Would Have Accepted It Posted by: X at February 18, 2014 12:36 PM (KHo8t) Fuck. I violated Rules for Morons Number Four (never consume anything, I mean anything, whilst reading the comments) and now I have pea stuck in my nose. Ooooowwwww.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 08:47 AM (VtjlW)

78 There is only one person on the planet who actually knows what I was thinking, Clapper said of his testimony from last March. Â“Not the media, and not certain members of Congress, only I know what I was thinking."

====
It doesn't matter much what he was thinking. What matters is what he and his agency were doing.

Posted by: mrp at February 18, 2014 08:47 AM (JBggj)

79 He was give these questions IN ADVANCE.

Posted by: davehead at February 18, 2014 08:47 AM (pjdGg)

80 My eyes said yes, but my mouth said no. Allegedly. You can't prove what my eyes said or what my mouth meant.

Posted by: James Clapper at February 18, 2014 08:47 AM (/FnUH)

81 I see we are back to the got caught balls deep cheating defenses. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 12:43 PM (VtjlW) I await his forthcoming books for which I am sure he'll receive rather large advances. Balls Deep: The DNI and the Meaning of National Security by James Clapper Followed by Just the Tip: National Intelligence in the Age of Terrorism by James Clapper as told to Bree Olson.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:48 AM (JpC1K)

82 So.

is He then admitting they are still collecting the information becuase it was the right thing to do right after 9-11 and We would have been ' for it'?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:48 AM (nqBYe)

83 My lips said "no" but my eyes said 'Yes, yes, YES!"

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:48 AM (Hx5uv)

84 Its not lying if you believe it. George Costanza.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at February 18, 2014 08:48 AM (oDCMR)

85 Yeah, but the government monitoring phone calls is totally OK because it prevented the Boston marathon bombing. Oh, wait . . .

Posted by: Iowa Bob at February 18, 2014 08:48 AM (wcvVw)

86 I took a couple of things away from this. 1) No one knows what I was thinking.....very similar to the definition of "is" by one WJC. 2) If Clappers belief in Ace's headline is true, we are truly a sorry ass nation.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 18, 2014 08:49 AM (HVff2)

87 When Dylan said no, I don't want you to put your head in my lap, that's not what she really meant.

Posted by: Woody Allen at February 18, 2014 08:49 AM (Aif/5)

88 ok, i didn't Know, but Hey, You on another night you would have liked this. so I did it.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:50 AM (nqBYe)

89 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 12:44 PM (PYAXX) It was when I realized that the FBI, ie the group in charge of Internal Law Enforcement, was not going to be PART of DHS... That I knew it was all just an effort to look like they were doing something... ie using FEAR to grow the Government... and I left the Republican Party.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:50 AM (84gbM)

90 The thing is, with this kind of thing, the Ambassador party crowd, the justice department getting shellacked over and over 9-0 in the Supreme Court, and more... the absolute incompetence of these ideologue zealots is on total display. Its bad enough the man is an idiot leftist who is abusing his power without compounding it by having hapless incompetents in all levels of government.
This is what you get when you hire by PC guidebook, affirmative action, and adherence to ideology rather than competence.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 08:50 AM (zfY+H)

91 Is there any video that can definitively prove that he didn't have his fingers crossed? Because if not, he may have us on a technicality.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:50 AM (Hx5uv)

92 But these are the same people who lied to us about what they were doing in the first place. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 12:40 PM (84gbM) The government has zero credibility. Zero. We should all keep that fact in mind going forward.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 18, 2014 08:50 AM (JQuNB)

93 He seems to be confused at how "the people might accept it" and "unconstitutional" can co-exist. And the fact that the people "accepting it" does not, sadly, make it constitutional, which is more than likely the reason he tried to keep it a secret, especially since the program is ineffective at best.

Posted by: deadrody at February 18, 2014 08:51 AM (b2D8X)

94 speaking of creepy perverts... http://tinyurl.com/nz3qf4j (not only a perv, he's got Bob Costas eyes.)

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 18, 2014 08:51 AM (7ObY1)

95 He was give these questions IN ADVANCE. Posted by: davehead at February 18, 2014 12:47 PM (pjdGg) Tell me that's not true. Please. Lie if you must.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 08:51 AM (VtjlW)

96 Plus... as I understand it...

I can keep my doctor. Right?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 18, 2014 08:51 AM (BZAd3)

97 It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is

Posted by: Bill Cliton [/i] at February 18, 2014 08:51 AM (CnA98)

98 (not only a perv, he's got Bob Costas eyes.) Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 18, 2014 12:51 PM (7ObY1) His eyebrows look like they were designed by Airbus.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:52 AM (JpC1K)

I'm not a lawyer, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but it sure looks to me like there's nothing to prosecute here.

Sure, we know what he meant, and no, the contradictory explanations after the fact don't make sense, but I don't think he's legally liable for that.

He'll take the answer that gives him the least amount of legal trouble as it suits him, and take the answer that gives him the least amount of political trouble when THAT suits him.

And we can point and laugh, but that's about all we can do.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 08:52 AM (TOk1P)

100 Ladies and Gentlemen... I give you, the Humpty Dumpty Defense... Posted by: Romeo13 ------------------- In the end, Humpty Dumpty suffered defenestration, kind of. There should be a lesson there.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 08:52 AM (aDwsi)

101 So you'll offer a defense for him that he hasn't even offered for himself?

No, it is the same defense (well, one of them) that he offered:

I was not even thinking of what he was asking about, which is of course we now all know as section 215 of the Patriot Act governing the acquisition and storage of telephony business records metadata,Â” Clapper said.

Because we're talking about metadata- as opposed to detailed, specific data- it's plausible that he didn't consider the metadata collection when answering.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 08:52 AM (SY2Kh)

102 Curious, does this Clapper fellow remind you of a public servant, accountable to the people he serves, or a tyrant who can do what he wants when he wants and abuse the public at will? You know the answer. Congratulations America, welcome to creeping fascism.

Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 08:52 AM (58bxI)

103 At this point what difference does it make?

Posted by: Mr Moo Moo at February 18, 2014 08:53 AM (0LHZx)

104 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:53 AM (ZPrif)

105 >>Yeah, but the government monitoring phone calls is totally OK because it prevented....the election of Romney in 2012 and is ensuring that the GOP and SCOTUS don't stand in emperor Obama's executive orders and other shenanigans.

FIFY.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 08:53 AM (POpqt)

106 The Metadata on astrology!!! is still being interpreted.

Posted by: Astrology!!! at February 18, 2014 08:53 AM (nbGZj)

107 ok, i didn't Know, but Hey, You on another night you would have liked this. so I did it. Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 12:50 PM (nqBYe) I actually have a video clip that would perfectly illustrate that point. No, I cannot now and will never link it because I am not c u r i o u s (though, actually, it's het but you take my meaning).

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 08:53 AM (VtjlW)

108 what's unfortunate in this whole thing. We did except the idea to watch foreigners on watch lists . Because hey that IS who attacked merica. and it would seem to be the Job of snoopy agency to protect american citizens lives.
Defend etc.
Yet than comes 2009 where the average joe is put on 'dhs' lists Becuase?

and perhaps we should have known it was possible.

although i never thought i'd see that here.

yeah i'm a dumb ass.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:54 AM (nqBYe)

109 In so many ways, this is the story of Obama.

Posted by: garrett at February 18, 2014 08:54 AM (29QdR)

110 He couldn't admit to this horrible thing when asked about it directly by those in charge of oversight because disclosing classified information is wrong. How very, ummmm, selective. What great discretion he's shown. Why, this man deserves a raise. Henceforth, all of MY wrongdoing shall be classified.

Posted by: no good deed at February 18, 2014 08:54 AM (vBhbc)

111 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 12:53 PM (ZPrif) In the on deck circle....NICOLAS....MADURO.... ::: echo :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:54 AM (JpC1K)

112 Real liberal media eh? Have you seen ONE story yet on the Koch Brothers, CIA and the oil corporatacracy trying to steal the people's enlightened Bolivarian Revolucion in Venezuela?

Posted by: Qestionmann at February 18, 2014 08:54 AM (TS9aB)

113 His eyebrows look like they were designed by Airbus. The part that kills me is his claim that he was taking upskirt pics "to determine if the coeds were inappropriately failing to wear undergarments to class." Inappropriate to whom? Is there a law? A campus regulation regarding skivvies? Did this assclown actually think anyone would fall for that lame excuse?

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 18, 2014 08:55 AM (7ObY1)

114 This is some infuriating bullshit. Id bet donuts to dollars that when he was in uniform, he was merciless to any junior that tried these same bullshit games. Fuck.

Posted by: fastfreefall at February 18, 2014 08:55 AM (l0RV1)

115 With wages stagnant, food prices soaring, more and more people working 2+ part-time jobs instead of one full-time gig with benefits, and with their cars falling apart, I think the national electorate is wide open for real change. Because dickwads like Clapper are sucking the hope right out of the body politic.

Posted by: mrp at February 18, 2014 08:55 AM (JBggj)

116 103 Curious, does this Clapper fellow remind you of a public servant, accountable to the people he serves, or a tyrant who can do what he wants when he wants and abuse the public at will? You know the answer. Congratulations America, welcome to creeping fascism. Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 12:52 PM (58bxI) He reminds me of someone whose loved ones are being threatened--the demeanor of nearly all present public servants who aren't known to be openly leftist.

Posted by: baldilocks at February 18, 2014 08:56 AM (36Rjy)

117 The Metadata on astrology!!! is still being interpreted.

The hand goes on my head, not up my ass.

Posted by: Phrenology Making a Comeback at February 18, 2014 08:56 AM (vBhbc)

118 It's entirely possible that he didn't fully consider the metadata to be "collecting information on millions of Americans".

Here we go. Hollowpoint wants to get into a semantic debate about what "information" is. Further he wants to talk about whether metadata is secret. Further he wants to talk about whether it should be secret. He also hedges with the phrase "fully consider". As in he might have thought about it, but not completely. Which is a restatement of the "only I knew what I was thinking" defense.

IOW Hollowpoint is setting up a position that is defensible in its vagueness. If you try to assail it he will take any number of positions, each of which were "clear" in his original statement. If you didn't understand "this" or "that" or "the other thing" from his original statement, you are stupid/partisan/ignorant/illiterate/etc.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:56 AM (IoTdl)

119 alex, lol , after the last few years i Need valium, xanx, morphine or Something something.
Because they constantly use bizzare commentary to excuse their conduct.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 08:56 AM (nqBYe)

120 Perjury?

I don't think that's even illegal anymore. Also racism.

Posted by: Attorney General Steadman [/i][/b] at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (5ikDv)

121 >>although i never thought i'd see that here.

>>yeah i'm a dumb ass.

Nah, you just didn't expect the next administration to be nakedly anti-American. There's not much precedent for that here. Bush, for all his faults, was at least on his own country's side.

Posted by: kartoffel at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (07vvi)

122 Thous shalt not blindly trust the military/intelligence industrial complex to do things that a) make sense and are b) effective. Any program like this, especially one of this scale, needs hard quesitons asked at inception and again at periodic intervals of performance. We haven't done that.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (659DL)

123

48 -

Tell me you're kidding, Hollowpoint. Tell me you're just trolling the blog, or whatever it is you do around here.

The one thing we know for a fact is the man was lying. He's right. You can't PROVE he was lying, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to not know he was lying...

Oh wait...

Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (TOk1P)

124 With wages stagnant, food prices soaring, more and more people working 2+ part-time jobs instead of one full-time gig with benefits, and with their cars falling apart, I think the national electorate is wide open for real change. Posted by: mrp at February 18, 2014 12:55 PM (JBggj) Hey! How did you get my checkbook?!?!??!

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (JpC1K)

125 But these are the same people who lied to us about what they were doing in the first place. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 12:40 PM (84gbM) The government has zero credibility. Zero. We should all keep that fact in mind going forward. Which is why I said on Friday regarding the OBL photo destruction: is he really dead? No conspiracy theory. I just don't believe their word. The government has proven they lie, even when they don't have to.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 18, 2014 08:57 AM (ix+5k)

126 Posted by: fastfreefall at February 18, 2014 12:55 PM (l0RV1) Hmmm... interesting point... He was in uniform when he made this statement, thus covered under the UCMJ... And he made a False Official Statement... which is conduct Unbecoming.... Has there been any Pentagon statements on this? As he WAS Active Duty?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (84gbM)

127 OT question: If Obama can just mandate double gas mileage with no concern for the actual engineering and whatnot, where the hell are our flying cars?

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (Hx5uv)

128 Clap on. Clap off.

And I'm offering one free, along with the Pocket Fisherman to the first three new visitors to the 404Care website!

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (Dwehj)

129 Because we're talking about metadata- as opposed to detailed, specific data- it's plausible that he didn't consider the metadata collection when answering. Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 12:52 PM (SY2Kh) Because any type of data at all is so terribly vague, don't you know. I mean, it's not as if the term metadata has the word data in it or anything. Utterly and totally and completely relevant here: http://youtu.be/94LL8J8WYT0 Also, since Wyden submitted the questions in advance, why was there not a polite little conversation about um hey, dude, yeah this question? Ixnay on the assifiedclay ogramspray questions, m'kay?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (VtjlW)

130 alex, lol , after the last few years i Need valium, xanx, morphine or Something something. Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 12:56 PM (nqBYe) Here, have a Roofie.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (JpC1K)

131 And he'll tease you He'll unease you All the better just to please you He's precocious and she knows just What it takes to make a pro blush He got Olberdouche stand off sighs He's got Bobby Costas eyes

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 08:58 AM (ZPrif)

132 Clapper should just admit he perjured himself. Who's going to prosecute him?

Posted by: Not an Artist at February 18, 2014 08:59 AM (uRumV)

133

119 -

Yep, I'm going with "Hollowpoint is trolling the blog again."

Can't go wrong with that answer.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 09:00 AM (TOk1P)

134 James Clapper, total Pisces.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 18, 2014 09:00 AM (ZshNr)

135 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism. Posted by: Flatbush -------------------- Um, say Joe, can you spare some toilet paper?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:00 AM (aDwsi)

136 Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 12:57 PM (TOk1P) You do not have to prove intent, to prove a Lie. Telling Lies is NOT a thought crime, its a crime based on the Action you took. He told a Lie, under Oath, to Congress... its PROOVEN... just not prosecuted.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 09:00 AM (84gbM)

137 Here, have a Roofie. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 18, 2014 12:58 PM (JpC1K) Bannion! That is so mean!

You didn't put down the comfy pillows and down comforter yet.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:01 AM (VtjlW)

138 James Clapper, total Pisces. Posted by: Lincolntf -------------------- Objection!.... I strenuously object!

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:01 AM (aDwsi)

139 Hey Ace! Sent an email also.

Posted by: baldilocks at February 18, 2014 09:01 AM (36Rjy)

140 rickb223 - I have seen nothing to prove that OBL was killed when/how they claimed. Nothing. And whatever you do, do not look into Extortion 17, nor should you read about Seymour Hersh and One Big Lie. Trust big government.

Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 09:01 AM (58bxI)

141

To go back to the last thread, the Dem base in large part comes from the ghetto and welfare refusal to work dregs.

So no, this does not surprise me.

Posted by: prescient11 at February 18, 2014 09:01 AM (tVTLU)

142 James Clapper, total Pisces. Posted by: Lincolntf -------------------- Objection!.... I strenuously object! Posted by: Mike Hammer ----------------- So say I.

Posted by: George Washington at February 18, 2014 09:02 AM (aDwsi)

143 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism. Reminder: Chavez was the smart one.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 09:02 AM (659DL)

144 117 103 Curious, does this Clapper fellow remind you of a public servant, accountable to the people he serves, or a tyrant who can do what he wants when he wants and abuse the public at will? You know the answer. Congratulations America, welcome to creeping fascism. Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 12:52 PM (58bxI) He reminds me of someone whose loved ones are being threatened--the demeanor of nearly all present public servants who aren't known to be openly leftist. --------- Baldilocks, Your comments (like this comment) always are so succinct!

Posted by: Chilling the most at February 18, 2014 09:02 AM (gxtMZ)

145 "You do not have to prove intent, to prove a Lie. "
Exactly, it doesn't matter what he was thinking. That's simply irrelevant to the perjury charge.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:02 AM (zfY+H)

146 11 out of 12 posters agree with me.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (ZshNr)

147 Why do you care? It isn't like you have standing or anything.

Posted by: The Supreme Court at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (4+AaH)

148 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 18, 2014 12:53 PM (ZPrif) I see in Argentina they are suing stores (including Wal*Mart() for not keeping their shelves stocked with price controlled items that they cannot afford to sell at price controlled prices.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (Hx5uv)

149 Sean..
look, I already feel enough screwing without my consent has been going on .

and slap.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (nqBYe)

150

138 -

The problem is, if he's got a "Lie to Congress for Free" card, as in, it was classified, and he couldn't say "yes," then he won't be prosecuted.

You'd have a hard time proving he didn't do exactly that.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (TOk1P)

151 James Clapper, total Pisces. Posted by: Lincolntf -------------------- Objection!.... I strenuously object! Posted by: Mike Hammer ----------------- So say I. According to my charts, Sedna is in Virgo which means thunderstorms in the Ohio Valley.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (659DL)

152 132 And he'll tease you He'll unease you All the better just to please you He's precocious and she knows just What it takes to make a pro blush He got Olberdouche stand off sighs He's got Bobby Costas eyes He'll upskirt you And desert you He thinks going pantyless can hurt you He's got pink eye and I know why He doesn't wash after wiping and gets styes He's got college girl poon pics hubba hubba Now he's got a cellmate named Bubba

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (7ObY1)

153 We never had these sort of issues in my term as President.

Posted by: President Alexander Hamilton [/i] at February 18, 2014 09:03 AM (CnA98)

154

Objection!.... I strenuously object!

Posted by: Mike Hammer

ISWYDT Nice work, counselor.

Posted by: Count de Monet at February 18, 2014 09:04 AM (BAS5M)

155 This post needs the 'Joe Lies' clip from Say Anything.

Posted by: garrett at February 18, 2014 09:04 AM (29QdR)

156 Baldi - He reminds me more of the nice blank you got there, shame if something happened to it/them type. Cold, calculating, merciless.

Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (58bxI)

157 Well, it does now seem kinda fishy that most of the SEALs from the raid have been killed. Aw, crap, I don't need another Obama situation ripe for conspiracy theory....

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (POpqt)

158 Isn't this just the "modified limited hangout"?

Posted by: AmishDude at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (T0NGe)

159 My friends, we have nothing to fear with Barack Obama in the White House

Posted by: John McCain at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (Q6pxP)

160 Why do you care? It isn't like you have standing or anything. Posted by: The Supreme Court at February 18, 2014 01:03 PM (4+AaH) Where's willow, I need to sob upon her shoulder. Bannion. I know what you're about to do. Don't do it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (VtjlW)

161 I see snow, white snow.

Posted by: Tex at February 18, 2014 09:05 AM (iyK4L)

162 Bannion! That is so mean! You didn't put down the comfy pillows and down comforter yet. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 01:01 PM (VtjlW) My apologies, my Queen. I thought my strong in sinewy arms would suffice in a pinch.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (JpC1K)

163

He is correct that the initial transparency would have made things different. But we aren't there now. We have to deal with these revelations at this time, added to the other abuses of the civil service by political actors from the Democrat Party. There has been too much abuse to grant teh benefit of the doubt easily, in fact it is going to take years to erase the damage. Decades even.

What does Clapper plan to do about that?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (hLRSq)

164 I find that security is so much better than freedom.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (BZAd3)

165 11 out of 12 posters agree with me. Posted by: Lincolntf ---------------------------- Horonormative haters, the lot of them.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (aDwsi)

166 let it burn already

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 9 days (1wk 2days) until spring training at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (u8GsB)

167 Bannion. I know what you're about to do. Don't do it. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 01:05 PM (VtjlW) ::: looks up at sky ::: ::: whistles tunelessly :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:06 AM (JpC1K)

168 Where's willow, I need to sob upon her shoulder. I have a shoulder and an extension ladder, if you should need it, my Queen.

Posted by: garrett at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (29QdR)

169 >>>Â“There is only one person on the planet who actually knows what I was thinking,Â” Clapper said of his testimony from last March. Â“Not the media, and not certain members of Congress, only I know what I was thinking.Â”<<<

Not wittingly. Inadvertently, but not wittingly.

Posted by: Fritz at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (rV80K)

170 "He's got Bobby Costas eyes "
It had to be done

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (zfY+H)

171 gives shoulder to alex... and tea.. and feeds the animl thingies..
and
yeah Bannion listen to alex.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (nqBYe)

172 >>let it burn already

Not in the wood-burning stove or fireplace, though! Bad for the environment...

Posted by: EPA at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (POpqt)

173 Sean.. look, I already feel enough screwing without my consent has been going on . and slap Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 01:03 PM (nqBYe) But you haven't had this screwing.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:07 AM (JpC1K)

174 Posted by: BurtTC at February 18, 2014 01:03 PM (TOk1P) No.... he was given the Question a day ahead of time... And all he had to say was, "Congressman, I cannot discuss this in this venue, but only behind closed doors"... THAT is the classified get out of jail free card, and he CHOSE not to use it.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 09:08 AM (84gbM)

175 The problem is, if he's got a "Lie to Congress for Free" card, as in, it was classified, and he couldn't say "yes," then he won't be prosecuted. If it was classified, then the correct answer was, "Congressman, as you should be aware, I cannot discuss aspects of classified activities, previous or ongoing, on the record." Saying "No" is not the same as saying, "I'm sorry, but that's classified." "No," means- as others have pointed out, "no." It is the contrapositive. To say "no" when the answer is "yes" is perjury, regardless of if the answer should have been "that's classified."

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 09:08 AM (PYAXX)

176 Thank you, garrett. *clambers* *sobs* My apologies, my Queen. I thought my strong in sinewy arms would suffice in a pinch. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 18, 2014 01:06 PM (JpC1K) This is willow. She deserves the best in comfort when being ruffied.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:08 AM (VtjlW)

177 Can we just leave already?

Posted by: Texas at February 18, 2014 09:08 AM (hFL/3)

178 I have a shoulder and an extension ladder, if you should need it, my Queen. Posted by: garrett ----------------------------- You gonna let Bannion cry on your shoulder? Mistake..., big mistake.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (aDwsi)

179 Lizzy, uh hmm, I feel ad that thee are topics where i do think to myself, perhaps i should actually invest in tin foil and little propellers to perch on top..

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (nqBYe)

180 Soon it will be just Comcast, without all of that pesky competition and free market bs. Won't that be peachy.

Posted by: and irresolute at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (RqHWH)

181 Clapper might have a point. If the NSA had been open and transparent right after 9/11 and told the world how easily they could monitor 'phone data and the internet, then maybe Al Qaeda would have stopped using 'phones and the internet, and then the NSA surveillance program would be needed.

So if that were true, then NSA would never have to gather all that data, all they would have to do is say they were collecting it. Look at how much money we could save!

Posted by: J.K. Delphious at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (JFZdr)

182 All he had to do was declare the President ordered him not to discuss the matter in open session. There's no constitutional requirement for the President to confer with Congress publicly; there's statutory authority to refuse to do so; and prior Administrations have worked with Congress in more desperate situations to collaborate on oversight with discretion. Instead he perjured himself.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (5xmd7)

183 ad-sad

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (nqBYe)

184 The one thing we know for a fact is the man was lying. He's right. You can't PROVE he was lying, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to not know he was lying...

Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie. It's not at all obvious that he intentionally intended to mislead.

I don't know exactly what kind of information they collected, as 'metadata' is somewhat vague. However, it's not implausible that he didn't at that moment consider a big collection of phone numbers to be collecting info on individual Americans.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (SY2Kh)

185 *clambers* *sobs* There, there... Would you like a Hate Shake? Would that make you feel better?

Posted by: garrett at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (29QdR)

186 103 America, welcome to creeping fascism.Posted by: @koenigjojo at February 18, 2014 12:52 PM (58bxI)
More leaping than creeping.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (kVfSG)

187 137 It's impressive how quickly Maduro is stepping up to be the face of Latin Leftist Fascism. Posted by: Flatbush z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z... *snore* *cough* What?

Posted by: Marxist®Media at February 18, 2014 09:09 AM (iU3DF)

188 This is willow. She deserves the best in comfort when being ruffied. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 01:08 PM (VtjlW) I wholeheartedly concur. I think I should go with something from the Downton Abbey collection. No? Or does that scream "trying too hard"?

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:10 AM (JpC1K)

189 He reminds me of someone whose loved ones are being threatened--the demeanor of nearly all present public servants who aren't known to be openly leftist. --------- Baldilocks, Your comments (like this comment) always are so succinct! Posted by: Chilling the most at February 18, 2014 01:02 PM (gxtMZ) Worker bee military intel background plus lot of time to think about this stuff equals this. And I still think that too many of us don't want to think outside the boundaries of the old constraints, no matter how many times this tyrannical government steps outside of those boundaries. Once you let that fantasy go, all the pieces fall into place. Everyone in the government who won't willingly go along with the tactics needed to dismantle America must be threatened. Period.

Posted by: baldilocks at February 18, 2014 09:10 AM (36Rjy)

190 Soon it will be just Comcast, without all of that pesky competition and free market bs. Won't that be peachy.

ISP + BitTorrent + DVDs from the library.

Getcha whatcha need.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:10 AM (8ifMA)

191 *passes around petit fours*

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 18, 2014 09:11 AM (0MVzQ)

192 No.... he was given the Question a day ahead of time...

And all he had to say was, "Congressman, I cannot discuss this in this venue, but only behind closed doors"...

THAT is the classified get out of jail free card, and he CHOSE not to use it. Posted by: Romeo13
====
I bet there was a back-channel proposing to do that very thing, and the pols replied, oh hell no. That puts us in the same boat with you and Lord knows what else Snowden will release next ....

Posted by: mrp at February 18, 2014 09:11 AM (JBggj)

193 >>perhaps i should actually invest in tin foil and little propellers to perch on top..

Sigh. It's been a long 5 years, hasn't it?

*carefully folds and sends one of my spare tinfoil hats through the USB*

Posted by: EPA at February 18, 2014 09:11 AM (POpqt)

194 "Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie. It's not at all obvious that he intentionally intended to mislead." Wheeeeeeee!

Posted by: Spin spin spin! at February 18, 2014 09:11 AM (hFL/3)

195 Creeping fascism, hell, what we've got is galloping fascism, and no opposition party to call them on it. We. Are. So. Screwed.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at February 18, 2014 09:11 AM (SwHqo)

196 "Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie."
Obvious and irrelevant. The man point blank was asked a yes or no question and he answered knowing what he was saying was false. He lied, period.
You're the kind of guy that defends the old lady suing McDonalds for a jillion dollars for their coffee being "too hot."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:12 AM (zfY+H)

197 perhaps hollowpoints thing is just being the devil's advocate .

for a fuller, more rounded, more 'interesting' discussion.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:12 AM (nqBYe)

198 *carefully folds and sends one of my spare tinfoil hats through the USB* Posted by: EPA at February 18, 2014 01:11 PM (POpqt) It's a trap, willow!

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 18, 2014 09:13 AM (PYAXX)

199 perhaps hollowpoints thing is just being the devil's advocate . for a fuller, more rounded, more 'interesting' discussion.Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 01:12 PM (nqBYe) Wow! Roofies really do work fast.

Posted by: President Alexander Hamilton [/i] at February 18, 2014 09:13 AM (CnA98)

200 83 My lips said "no" but my eyes said 'Yes, yes, YES!" Her lips said no but her eyes said "read my lips"

Posted by: Niles Crane at February 18, 2014 09:13 AM (aTXUx)

201 not a trap, a sock!

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (POpqt)

202 I think I should go with something from the Downton Abbey collection. No?

Or does that scream "trying too hard"?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 18, 2014 01:10 PM (JpC1K)

please pick something calming, no busy fabrics, and i prefer a high cotton count.

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (nqBYe)

203 What happens when it's revealed that the NSA/FBI used this capability to spy on Romney's campaign/donors/supporters/etc. in 2012?

Posted by: wytshus at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (DErq5)

204 "Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie." And then we crossed the streams with some genuine Bubba Clinton BS and full protonic reversal ensued.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (659DL)

205 Wow! Roofies really do work fast. Posted by: President Alexander Hamilton at February 18, 2014 01:13 PM (CnA9 ::: dusts off lapels ::: Every. Time.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/i][/u][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (JpC1K)

206 Say, This Clapper guy's testimony is almost like Ollie North and IranContra.

Posted by: J.K. Delphious at February 18, 2014 09:14 AM (JFZdr)

207 *sniffles* Yes, a Hate Shake would make me feel better. Thank you, willow. *sips tea whilst waiting for Hate Shake*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:15 AM (VtjlW)

208 Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 01:09 PM (SY2Kh) Except he KNEW, as he knew about all programs, that they were not just collecting Metadata. They have, and still are, collecting internet and email content as well. Its just in a different database, as its a different data set. He was asked if the NSA was collecting Data on Americans.... he was NOT asked if it was Meta Data... AND knowing the question in advance? He lied... not to Congress, as some of them KNEW about these programs... He lied to US... IN Congress... under oath...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 09:15 AM (84gbM)

209 RE: the Osama Bin Laden show; it was too staged and theatrical for my liking, but then that's what this administration loves.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:15 AM (zfY+H)

210 Now I want a hate shake. Do they have peach hate shakes yet? Those are my favorite.

Posted by: Lauren at February 18, 2014 09:15 AM (hFL/3)

211 At this point, what difference does it make!!!!

Posted by: Hillary! at February 18, 2014 09:16 AM (aTXUx)

212 Now I want a hate shake. Do they have peach hate shakes yet? Those are my favorite. Posted by: Lauren at February 18, 2014 01:15 PM (hFL/3) I don't think the peach ones are out yet. Also nood.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:16 AM (VtjlW)

213 so depends what Is is to You or what Is is to me.

haven't we been here before?

Posted by: willow at February 18, 2014 09:17 AM (nqBYe)

214 "Say, This Clapper guy's testimony is almost like Ollie North and IranContra."
Pretty similar yeah, that whole thing was such an ugly, stupid idea. I agreed with their goals but what a retarded wrong way to go about it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:17 AM (zfY+H)

215 We find the word 'roofies' to be a micro-aggression against the millions of undocumented workers gainfully employed under the table and in the shadows in the roof shingle replacement industry.

Posted by: La Raza Taza[/i] at February 18, 2014 09:17 AM (CnA98)

216 Because any type of data at all is so terribly vague, don't you know.

I mean, it's not as if the term metadata has the word data in it or anything.

I'm not going to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you don't know what the word 'metadata' means.

As such, you no doubt understand that the term gives us little idea exactly how detailed the collected information is or how readily it can be tied to a specific individual.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 09:18 AM (SY2Kh)

217 "Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie." Try saying that to my mom when I was growing up & just go ahead and prepare for the beating.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 18, 2014 09:18 AM (ix+5k)

218 >>Everyone in the government who won't willingly go along with the tactics needed to dismantle America must be threatened. Period.

Yeah, like all of the 9/11 Benghazi consulate attack survivors who have been effectively disappeared. If anything happened to them (like, "accidental" deaths) we'd never even know because they've been relocated, had their names changed, and who know what else. Do we even know how many people survived the attack, let alone their names?

Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 09:18 AM (POpqt)

219 You're the kind of guy that defends the old lady suing McDonalds for a jillion dollars for their coffee being "too hot."

*raises hand*

I will defend that. McDonalds had several lawsuits before that incident RE the temperature of their coffee. They chose taste over safety. The woman put the coffee between her legs and when it spilled it permanently damaged her genitals.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but after repeated warnings about this specific problem, McDonalds should have lowered the temp of their coffee.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:19 AM (8ifMA)

220 However, it's not implausible that he didn't at that moment consider a big collection of phone numbers to be collecting info on individual Americans.

Exactly. How do I know what constitutes this "inform-ation" of which you speak?

It's not like I am the head of the Central Intelligence Agency or anything.

Posted by: James Clapper...maybe [/i][/b] at February 18, 2014 09:19 AM (5ikDv)

221 205 What happens when it's revealed that the NSA/FBI used this capability to spy on Romney's campaign/donors/supporters/etc. in 2012? Posted by: wytshus at February 18, 2014 01:14 PM (DErq5) The same thing that happened when it was revealed that the IRS gave tax return information to the Obama campaign

Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 09:19 AM (aTXUx)

222 219 "Saying something that is not true isn't necessarily a lie." Try saying that to my mom when I was growing up & just go ahead and prepare for the beating. Posted by: rickb223 at February 18, 2014 01:18 PM (ix+5k) Yeah.... REALLY????

Posted by: Scooter Libby... looking at his Prison Uniform at February 18, 2014 09:20 AM (84gbM)

223 "I will defend that. McDonalds had several lawsuits before that incident RE the temperature of their coffee. "
One of the local news stations visited several restaurants about that time and measured the temperature of their coffee. They were ALL hotter than the McDonald's temperature the suit complained about.
This may be hard to believe, but big companies with lots of money get sued a lot for all kinds of reasons, but the real purpose behind it all is MONEY.
The moral of that story was "don't hold a hot cup of coffee between your legs, idiot."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 18, 2014 09:21 AM (zfY+H)

224 As such, you no doubt understand that the term gives us little idea exactly how detailed the collected information is or how readily it can be tied to a specific individual. Time and phone number. With that, general location can be determined and a pretty good guess at identity. Next.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 09:21 AM (659DL)

225

Clapper keeps fucking around, and Issa's gonna' have to call another bullshit investigation/diversion.

Posted by: ScoggDog at February 18, 2014 09:21 AM (As7Kc)

226 I don't think giving the answer "I could tell you Congressman...but then I'd have to kill you" is any kind of crime. They'd have to get the committee to vote it up as contempt of Congress, and I don't think they'd have the cojones.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at February 18, 2014 09:23 AM (5xmd7)

227 Time and phone number. With that, general location can be determined and a pretty good guess at identity. Next. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 01:21 PM (659DL) And Cell Tower? or landline drop? ie... where the call originated?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 18, 2014 09:24 AM (84gbM)

228 One of the local news stations visited several restaurants about that time and measured the temperature of their coffee. They were ALL hotter than the McDonald's temperature the suit complained about.

Pointing to other wrongs doesn't make McDs right.

This may be hard to believe, but big companies with lots of money get sued a lot for all kinds of reasons, but the real purpose behind it all is MONEY.

People sue all the time for the principle of it. Even if she did sue for the money, that doesn't make her wrong.

I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility. I really am. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have to be careful about what you hand me when I patronize your business.

Posted by: No True Scotsman[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:26 AM (8ifMA)

229 Clapper: "Speaking Power to Truth."

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at February 18, 2014 09:26 AM (OPzNA)

230 I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility. I really am. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have to be careful about what you hand me when I patronize your business. CUPHOLDERS. Get some.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 18, 2014 09:28 AM (659DL)

231 not a trap, a sock!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 18, 2014 01:14 PM (POpqt)

IT'S A SOCK!!!

Posted by: Adm. Akbar at February 18, 2014 09:29 AM (W7ffl)

232 Obvious and irrelevant. The man point blank was asked a yes or no question and he answered knowing what he was saying was false. He lied, period.

People innocently misinterpret questions and use imprecise language all the time. It's entirely possible that's all it was, especially considering that his answer was immediately known to be false by people in the same room.

Which is more likely- he intentionally lied knowing that he'd be contradicted almost immediately, or that he simply made a mistake in misinterpreting the question, conflating it with a previous question about "dossiers"?

And yes, it's possible that he intentionally lied. It just strikes me as the less likely scenario given the circumstances.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 09:29 AM (SY2Kh)

233 The same thing that happened when it was revealed that the IRS gave tax return information to the Obama campaign

Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 01:19 PM (aTXUx)

Ugh....L.I.B.

Posted by: wytshus at February 18, 2014 09:29 AM (DErq5)

234 Why you mad at me? The sniveling lawyers said "Don't! Stop!" you need a warrant. So I didn't stop.

Posted by: James Clapper at February 18, 2014 09:29 AM (OPzNA)

235 205 What happens when it's revealed that the NSA/FBI used this capability to spy on Romney's campaign/donors/supporters/etc. in 2012? Posted by: wytshus at February 18, 2014 01:14 PM (DErq5) The same thing the little boy shot at, not a fucking thing

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at February 18, 2014 09:30 AM (R8hU8)

236 I'm all for personal responsibility, but after repeated warnings about this specific problem, McDonalds should have lowered the temp of their coffee. Posted by: bonhomme --------------------------- Well..., there is the 'reasonable and prudent man' test, no? For years lawyers have been filing suits against motorcycle manufacturers, because it is possible to build a two-wheel vehicle that will protect the operator in the event of a spill. The fact is, it is self evident that riding a motorcycle involves certain risks. I would maintain that clutching a cup between one's thighs involves a certain risk. That the subsequent damage is a consequence of hot or cold water, I care not at all. Is the defense that the woman DID in fact assume that the liquid might be spilled, but damage would occur? If the suit had only claimed damage (staining) to the seat cover, would the outcome have been the same? All moot, I understand, as the case is over, but as sorry as I feel for the lady, she was the proximate cause of the incident.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:30 AM (aDwsi)

237 238 - EDIT: "might be spilled, but no damage would occur?"

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 18, 2014 09:32 AM (aDwsi)

238 I defend McDs against the haters. I worked there as a teenager and learned a lot about work. but the coffee was entirely too hot. I have a 3 inch by 1 quarter inch split down my tongue to prove it.

Posted by: X at February 18, 2014 09:32 AM (KHo8t)

239 CUPHOLDERS. Get some.

She was driving a Ford Probe in the early '90s. Didn't have them.

The woman had to have skin grafts and was willing to settle for $20K, the cost of her medical bills.

McDonalds offered her $800 and she took them for over $2.8 Million.

Posted by: No True Scotsman[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:34 AM (J79eW)

240 Reading the wiki page it says in the previous ten years McDonalds had over 700 reports of people being burned and paid out $500K.

They knew it was an issue. They rolled the dice when they chose not to fix it.

The jury assigned 20% of fault to the woman.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 18, 2014 09:37 AM (J79eW)

241 Time and phone number.

With that, general location can be determined and a pretty good guess at identity.

Yes, it can be determined. We don't know that they did so.

If I gave you my phone number, all it would tell you is that it's a cell number issued in Minnesota. It would require further information from the issuing phone provider to know who it was issued to and where it actually called from.

Knowing that an anonymous phone number issued in Virginia frequently called Pakistan would be an example of 'metadata' until the extra step of identifying the owner of that phone number was undertaken.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 09:40 AM (SY2Kh)

242 205 What happens when it's revealed that the NSA/FBI used this capability to spy on Romney's campaign/donors/supporters/etc. in 2012? Posted by: wytshus at February 18, 2014 01:14 PM (DErq5) I'm certain they did and information was fed directly to King Putt. ....and (selected) others in both the DNC and RNC. Remember how quickly the talking points were cued up and Romney seemed to be constantly on the defensive. Which is why it will take an honest, connected Journalist type to get at it, so.... forget it.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at February 18, 2014 09:42 AM (iU3DF)

243 I'm not going to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you don't know what the word 'metadata' means. As such, you no doubt understand that the term gives us little idea exactly how detailed the collected information is or how readily it can be tied to a specific individual. Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 01:18 PM (SY2Kh) I am going to insult your intelligence, since, after all, you insist on doing so to the rest of us, and state, categorically, that you do not comprehend the meaning of the term "any". The question that was asked is not unclear. It is not imprecise. It is not capable of innocent misunderstanding. Any. Type. Of. Data. At. All. Any type. At all. That is comprehensive. That is inclusive. That is as broad as possible. That encompasses the entirety of the data stream. Your attempts to spin out well any doesn't mean this and any doesn't mean that and well that's not how it was used ignores the meanings of the words any, type, of, data, at and all. Stop it. Just. Stop. Because, you see, when you (the oh so very personal you) attempt to spin the unspinnable, it eviscerates your credibility for other arguments. Clapper lied. Clapper knowingly told an untruth. You are defending the indefensible.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 09:51 AM (VtjlW)

244 Even I wouldn't try this shit.

Posted by: Bill Clinton at February 18, 2014 09:57 AM (o9Rp5)

245 Stop it. Just. Stop. Because, you see, when you (the oh so very personal you) attempt to spin the unspinnable, it eviscerates your credibility for other arguments.

Clapper lied. Clapper knowingly told an untruth. You are defending the indefensible.

It must be so very nice to live in a world where people never misunderstand or misinterpret questions and only give precise, fully considered answers.

Also, that mind-reading thing seems like it would come in handy. Is that a common trait amongst your people?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 09:59 AM (SY2Kh)

246 Also, that mind-reading thing seems like it would come in handy. Is that a common trait amongst your people? Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 01:59 PM (SY2Kh) Your people? A dig at AtC's lifestyle as a debate point Or "your people" meaning "those of you who are not obnoxious condescending obtuse dicks"

Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 10:04 AM (aTXUx)

247 It must be so very nice to live in a world where people never misunderstand or misinterpret questions and only give precise, fully considered answers. You mean the world where the person is given the question ahead of time and is thus able to prepare in advance for it? You mean the world where the person whose job involves giving precise, fully considered answers to those who have oversight over that person's agency actually listen to and provide precise, fully considered answers to the question that was asked? You mean the world where the phrase any type of data at all is comprehensible as meaning, well, any type of data at all? Yeah. It is. Also, that mind-reading thing seems like it would come in handy. Is that a common trait amongst your people? Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 01:59 PM (SY2Kh) Yes.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 10:09 AM (VtjlW)

248 Your people? A dig at AtC's lifestyle as a debate point

Or "your people" meaning "those of you who are not obnoxious condescending obtuse dicks"

"Your people" as in whatever planet she hails from. You know, the one where they have perfect communication and comprehension skills.

But you go right on hunting for non-existent 'microaggression'.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 18, 2014 10:10 AM (SY2Kh)

249 Your people? A dig at AtC's lifestyle as a debate point It never even crossed my mind that such was the intent. There is no reason why anyone else should either. Or "your people" meaning "those of you who are not obnoxious condescending obtuse dicks" Posted by: kbdabear at February 18, 2014 02:04 PM (aTXUx) There's slightly more overlap on those Venns than I care to admit.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at February 18, 2014 10:12 AM (VtjlW)

250 >>People innocently misinterpret questions and use imprecise language all the time. It's entirely possible that's all it was, especially considering that his answer was immediately known to be false by people in the same room.<< A conscientious witness would issue a correction in writing as soon as he discovered the error. Which Clapper didn't do. Hasn't done yet, so far as I know.

Posted by: Evil_Djinn at February 18, 2014 11:56 AM (5xmd7)

251 Of course Clapper knew what Wyden meant, but to admit that effectively confesses to perjury. My lawyer says you usually don't want to do that.

But it was a perjury TRAP constructed by Wyden, who had already got the answer in closed session and knew fully well Clapper couldn't answer it publicly without violating the Secrets Act and his oath of office.

Clapper has got all the flak, but Wyden is the bad guy here. Snivelling little traitor should be shipped off to Venezuela.

Posted by: Adjoran at February 18, 2014 12:00 PM (QIQ6j)

252 253 He could have refused to give the answer in public session. Wyden could have sought to charge him with contempt. He'd have had to get a majority of the committee to vote with him, and he'd have every Democrat against him and probably a couple Republicans too.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 18, 2014 12:07 PM (5xmd7)

253 I might not agree with atc on evrything but I do not contest her on the meaning of words, nor on the vagaries of the American legal system. She is a lawyer. This is what she does for a living. She MIGHT be wrong on the issue but you better bring your A game if you're going to prove that.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 18, 2014 12:07 PM (m5+rk)

254 Is it just me or does Clapper come off as being mentally deficient. Serious that guy has way surpassed his own incompetence in terms of the post he holds. Mentally I think his ability to apply logic and reason were stunted somehow. Superserious he is a blithering idiot.....and I mean superserious you guys

Posted by: Nunyobidnezz at February 18, 2014 05:28 PM (VsGnu)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.

203kb generated in CPU 0.1846, elapsed 0.3673 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.3258 seconds, 382 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.