1

Damn good gun, that S&W.  I think the M&P is more durable, but the 9VE is a lot of gun for the money!

 

 

 

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

2 Let me drop this here... Los Angeles Sheriff Deputies burst into Eugene MalloryÂ’s home expecting to find a meth lab, but turns out there was no meth. Police say that the 80-year-old Mallory, who was in bed, reached for one of his handguns. ThatÂ’s when the police shot him six times, killing him.

3 Nice quilt.

4 United Mine Workers Local 717 president Fran Madore said Cuomo's gun control push hurts workers at Remington's Ilion, New York factory. According to Syracuse.com, Madore said, "The SAFE Act has been a terrible thing from the beginning. You'd think New York would be doing everything to keep us. Instead, it passes a law to cripple us."

United Mine Workers Local 717 "represents 1,180 of the 1,300 Remington employees in Ilion," where Remington "has been making firearms since 1816."

5 DARPAs new 1-shot sniper system:  http://kitup.military.com/2014/02/darpa-develops-mountable-shot.html

Rail mount low profile light:  http://kitup.military.com/2014/02/mfts-rail-mounted-task-lights.html

FNs new AR clone:  http://kitup.military.com/2014/01/fn-offer-civilian-ar-rifles-carbines.html

6 In a semi-auto pistol I like Colts.  It's just that they are so damn expensive.  I would prefer the Python for a wheel gun but since they don't make them anymore you have to find someone will to part with one and give them $2000 and your first born male child,

7 In a 2-1 decision, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco said San Diego County violates the Constitution’s Second Amendment by requiring residents to show “good cause” – and not merely the desire to protect themselves – to obtain a concealed-weapons permit. In NY you have to show good cause to get a carry permit, and I think it's the same for some other northeastern states. IIRC, the federal courts here have thrown out challenges to that requirement. Some animals are more equal than others.

8 2  Los Angeles Sheriff Deputies burst into Eugene Mallory�s home expecting to find a meth lab, but turns out there was no meth.

Police say that the 80-year-old Mallory, who was in bed, reached for one of his handguns. That�s when the police shot him six times, killing him.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at February 17, 2014 11:25 AM (CnA9

Another no-knock drug raid.  The cop should be prosecuted but will not be.  The man's relatives will sue AND win.  The taxpayers will be punished.

Eliminate the GD drug laws.

9 In NY you have to show good cause to get a carry permit, and I think it's the same for some other northeastern states. IIRC, the federal courts here have thrown out challenges to that requirement.
Some animals are more equal than others.

Posted by: real joe at February 17, 2014 11:29 AM (xXhgd)

You'll soon have to show good cause to exercise your 1st and 4th amendment rights, I'm guessing.

10 "Well, since the gun thread didn't happen over the weekend, I figured I'd cobble one together from bamboo, diamonds, and makeshift black powder." You forgot the sulfur.

11 From dump thread...Thanks, LadyS. I enjoy giving my opinion. It's nice to know other women appreciate the more vocal of the Ettes.

12 Eliminate the GD drug laws.

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2014 11:30 AM (T2V/1)

The drug laws aren't the problem, it's the cowboy cops.

13 Okay, it's me, and it's last week, not this week, but what do you want, effort? Not bloody likely. Remember, it's not laziness, you're being energy efficient.

14 This post is absurdly irresponsible.  Those pictures of guns could be discovered by children.

15 You'll soon have to show good cause to exercise your 1st and 4th amendment rights, I'm guessing. Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:31 AM (x3YFz) Or at least demonstrate correct thinking, since they are bringing back loyalty oaths and examining editorial decisions by news organizations. Freedom!

16 United Mine Workers Local 717 "represents 1,180 of the 1,300 Remington employees in Ilion," where Remington "has been making firearms since 1816."



Mine workers representing Remington Arms workers?

17 Or at least demonstrate correct thinking, since they are bringing back loyalty oaths and examining editorial decisions by news organizations. Freedom!

Posted by: real joe at February 17, 2014 11:34 AM (xXhgd)

We'll send over the Critical Information Guidelines.

18 Arms are for hugging, not shooting.

19 We can't see the pics.  It just says "gun.jpg"

20 Arms are for hugging, not shooting.



I hug my Bushmaster. Then I shoot it.

21 I was going to say Sigma. Did they drop that designation?

22 12  The drug laws aren't the problem, it's the cowboy cops.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:32 AM (x3YFz)

What do you think made the "cowboy" cops and no knock raids.  We didn't have this shit before all these damn drug laws hit.

And besides all the money and lives spent on this shit has been a massive fail.  Cocaine is at record high availability now.  We LOST the drug war.  Time to quit throwing money and lives at it and surrender.

23 >>
10 "Well, since the gun thread didn't happen over the weekend, I figured I'd cobble one together from bamboo, diamonds, and makeshift black powder."

You forgot the sulfur.

Posted by: Cap'n Kirk at February 17, 2014 11:31 AM (LKJt3)

<<


Salt peter, captain.  For the fifth and final time, salt peter--potassium nitrate.  You have to have it as well as sulfur and charcoal/carbon.

24 I hug my Bushmaster. Then I shoot it.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 11:36 AM (d0Dmj)

I sleep with my Sig, does that count?

25 We can't see the pics. It just says "gun.jpg"


Should've bought the Cardboard Membership.

26 Heh. Like father, like son. My dad's permit from 1954. More interesting to NC folk, I suppose. I've whited-out the personal bits http://tinypic.com/m/hweosl/1

27
Hey, I tried that salt peter. It didn't work.

28 In the current issue of the American Rifleman there is an ad that features a picture of a hunter wearing minimal visible blaze, wearing a black hat and carrying an enormous pair of rattling antlers strapped to his back. The tines of the antlers are just about neck height. Talk about stupid. An excellent way to get yourself blown away on a foggy morning or evening.

29 We can't see the pics. It just says "gun.jpg" That's all you should see, if we have our way.

30 I sleep with my Sig, does that count?

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:37 AM (x3YFz)

You bastard!!!!  Take your Swiss slut and get the fuck out!!!  I never want to see you again!!!!!!!

*sobs*

31 "Answer below the cut." Good thing you proofread that carefully.

32 The tines of the antlers are just about neck height.

Talk about stupid. An excellent way to get yourself blown away on a foggy morning or evening.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at February 17, 2014 11:39 AM (l3vZN)

LOL before I read your last sentence that was exactly my thought.

Staying alive for a while is hard enough given the rattlesnakes, car accidents, cancer... and this rocket surgeon decided to strap antlers to his ass.

What could possibly go wrong?

33 You bastard!!!! Take your Swiss slut and get the fuck out!!! I never want to see you again!!!!!!!
*sobs*

Posted by: HK at February 17, 2014 11:40 AM (GQ8sn)

there there... I carry an HK P2000.  I'm an equal opportunity handgun owner.

34 The robber was armed with a TASER. Which acted as a booster cable for our hero's pacemaker!

35 .... but "swiss slut" has an allure to it...

36 That SD looks an awful lot like a Glock in terms of mechanical build.  How different are they internally?  The takedown lever even looks the same.

37 You know, looking at that "1966 Orlando" tweeted pic, I have to say that when Smith and Wesson announced they were entering the 1911 market, that was proof they were pretty much out of ideas for a while.

Of course then they got the M&P series together, which may end up being the first S&W semi and first Tupperware pistol I've ever bought.

38 35 T9 - It's the alliteration

39 >>>You forgot the sulfur. That first picture was supposed to be this: http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608056150982332338&w=274&h=167&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7 There was a problem with sizing the pic of Gingy's gun, and somehow the resized picture got substituted for Kirk instead of the generic GOTW pic. Oh well.

40 What's the other S&W?

41 Ooh I learned some new libspeak today. "racial microaggressions" So it's when you think you aren't being racist, but the tiny things you do, which can only be seen by a true non racist, prove you are racist anyway. Like a physical version of the racist dogwhistle I guess.

42 there there... I carry an HK P2000. I'm an equal opportunity handgun owner.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:44 AM (x3YFz)

Oooh, baby!

*pulls out a bottle of CLP*

43 The local Philly news told a story about some armed robbers who showed up at someones house on Valentines Day carrying a bunch of flowers. Homeowner opened the door and guns appeared. What would you do? / not snark, just wondering

44 I still like my M9. 

I know, I know... it's not sexy.  But dammit the thing is SO comfortable, it's like an extension of my arm.  Only 9mm, but I can drive tacks with it, easy breakdown. 

I've had about 20 handguns in my life and my Beretta.... If I could marry it, I would, and our kids would be beautiful.

45 Drudge has a nice pic of what our near future looks like when math catches up to us all.

46 It's been a good gun weekend for me, eviscerated a gun-grabber in my PolSci class and spent a few hours at the range.  10/22 dialed in? Yep!  .308 dialed in? Yep! AR dialed in?  Yep.  Total rounds downrange, about 250.  I did discover that I need to work out more, shooting offhand started tiring my shoulders after about 20 minutes.

47 there there... I carry an HK P2000. I'm an equal opportunity handgun owner.


Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:44 AM (x3YFz)

Oooh, baby!
*pulls out a bottle of CLP*


Hoppe's #9 Eau du toilette. For women.

48 In a semi-auto pistol I like Colts. It's just that they are so damn expensive. I would prefer the Python for a wheel gun but since they don't make them anymore you have to find someone will to part with one and give them $2000 and your first born male child,

Posted by: Vic at February 17, 2014 11:29 AM (T2V/1)

 

I recently bought a hundred-year-old Colt Army Special in .41 Long Colt for $250. Its frame design was used to make the Python many years later, and it grips like a dream and feels like a natural extension of my hand. I have to cast and load my own ammo for it since .41 Colt is prohibitively expensive. Externally, it looks like a worn-out beater of a gun but--according to the gunsmith I had check it out--it's mechanically perfect. The bluing is nearly all gone but it's got a nice patina. I fired it last weekend and--once I figured out the sights--shot amazingly well. Of course, with its largish frame and 6-inch barrel, it's not much for concealment, but who cares? That's what the Seecamp is for.

 

I love old Colt revolvers. They were the Camaro of their day.

49 I've had about 20 handguns in my life and my Beretta.... If I could marry it, I would, and our kids would be beautiful.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:49 AM (x3YFz)

Maybe, maybe not!

50 EC if you field strip the guns and look at the parts side by side it's like a mirror. Like I said, lawsuit happened.

51 45 Drudge has a nice pic of what our near future looks like when math catches up to us all.

Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 11:50 AM (GQ8sn)

1 9-banger and I suddenly just obtained 25 FN rifles?

LOL... I like the way they bunch up.

52 Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 11:50 AM (GQ8sn)

A clown shortage?

53 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

54 An armed society is a polite society.

55 EC if you field strip the guns and look at the parts side by side it's like a mirror. Like I said, lawsuit happened.

Posted by: Weirddave at February 17, 2014 11:51 AM (N/cFh)

So which came first?  The chicken or the egg?

56 which can only be seen by a true non racist, -------------------- Yeah. It's remarkable that those folk so completely lack self-awareness. It seems that they can detect the most nuanced racism, and yet that would only be possible if the racist 'construct' exists in their own head.

57 Maybe, maybe not!

Posted by: Taurus at February 17, 2014 11:51 AM (GQ8sn)

Depends on the year the Taurus was made.  Prior to the late 90's after they bought the beretta plants, they used crap steel for the pistols.  Malfunction junction.

58 Those pictures of guns could be discovered by children. Posted by: ABC News at February 17, 2014 11:33 AM (8ZskC) ***** Not unless you sprinkle some pictures of candy in with them.

59 Off tap, tap, squiggle squiggle sock.

60 1)Holy fuck they will let anyone post here. C) You misspelled your wife's name. Omega) I was originally going to go with the SW SD40VE, but found a good deal on the MP.40

61 Thanks to Call of Duty and Battlefield, my kid can now identify almost all the NATO, Russian, and Chinese small arms and vehicles.

62 BC - I figured the misspelling was an intentional cloak.

63 I looked for the news article on the Valentines Day flower delivery robbery but only one report I can find. It appears the police described the suspects over the radio in a non-PC method, so nothing to see people, move on. http://tinyurl.com/TheyDescribedTheSuspectsAsBlac

64 Here is a q for those of you living in those environs where they passed laws about mag size. Tubular mags on .22 rifles. One can sure get a lot of shorts in the typical tubular mag of the older .22s. Even packing the tube with LR likely puts one over the limits of some places like NY. So, are these guns illegal? Or are they only so when actually containing more than the allotted rounds.

65 61 Thanks to Call of Duty and Battlefield, my kid can now identify almost all the NATO, Russian, and Chinese small arms and vehicles.

Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 11:55 AM (GQ8sn)

 

And this is why  I laugh at the attempts of schools to demonize guns.

66 Thanks to Call of Duty and Battlefield, my kid can now identify almost all the NATO, Russian, and Chinese small arms and vehicles.


Could be useful in the future.

67 Mine workers representing Remington Arms workers?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 11:34 AM (d0Dmj)

Would you prefer the Communications Workers of America ?

68 61 Thanks to Call of Duty and Battlefield, my kid can now identify almost all the NATO, Russian, and Chinese small arms and vehicles.

Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 11:55 AM (GQ8sn)

LOL... not a bad thing.

Next step is being able to pick up a firearm in the field, assess condition and functionality.

Keep up the good work EC : )

69 I love that story about the taser wielding DEAD robber. I'm a sucker for a happy ending! I hope that the homeowner isn't prosecuted. (Thank God he had to be treated at a local hospital for injuries he sustained--especially if the dead perp was a choir boy, Trayvon Martin type--not that it will matter to the Jesse and Al types, but still...)

70 It seems that they can detect the most nuanced racism, and yet that would only be possible if the racist 'construct' exists in their own head.

If you hear the whistle, you are a dog.

71 "War" on anything, and I mean any thing, is stupid, and doomed to failure. But I suspect our betters know that. But they wage it anyways. War on poverty is actually war on earners pocketbooks under the guise of compassion, while enslaving generations of folks to living on the drippings from the pan of life. But it gets votes, and allows the soft-minded to feel good, so there. War on drugs is more insidious, because it's actually war against due process and the American people in general.

72 Here is a q for those of you living in those environs where they passed laws about mag size.

Tubular mags on .22 rifles. One can sure get a lot of shorts in the typical tubular mag of the older .22s. Even packing the tube with LR likely puts one over the limits of some places like NY.

So, are these guns illegal? Or are they only so when actually containing more than the allotted rounds. Posted by: the littl shyning man


Depends on the location. Some laws are written regarding removable magazines only.

73 If you hear the whistle, you are a dog. Posted by: HR -------------------- Succinct.

74 So, are these guns illegal? Or are they only so when actually containing more than the allotted rounds.

It's the magazine.

A 1911 with a classic 7-rd magazine is legal in NY, but the 8-rd or higher mags are illegal.  The pistol itself is ok.

75 71 "War" on anything, and I mean any thing, is stupid, and doomed to failure.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 17, 2014 11:57 AM (agLwc)

War on ignorance.... discuss.

76 Could be useful in the future.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 11:56 AM (d0Dmj)

"Wait dad, don't use that Type-99 until DICE rebalances it next DLC!"

77 Much thanks to ArthurK in the side bar for the wealth of new material I am certain to repost as links in the future

78 I can differ with the "good cause" thing as re NY CCW, which by the way is the only way one can OWN a handgun in NY. Good cause for me was "likes to shoot at targets." But it may vary county by county.

79 Mine workers representing Remington Arms workers?


Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 11:34 AM (d0Dmj)

Would you prefer the Communications Workers of America ?


I'd prefer the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

80 19 We can't see the pics. It just says "gun.jpg" Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 17, 2014 11:36 AM (Z7PrM) That's because you're in Chicago.

81 An asteroid the size of three football fields is set to make a close brush of Earth on Monday, and you can watch the flyby in a live webcast.

Near-Earth asteroid 2000 EM26 poses no threat of actually hitting the planet, but the online Slooh Space Camera will track the asteroid as it passes by Earth on Monday. The live Slooh webcast will start at 9 p.m. EST (0200 Feb. 18 GMT), and you can also watch the webcast directly through the Slooh website.

Scientists estimate that 2000 EM26 is about 885 feet in diameter, and it is whizzing through the solar system at a break-neck 27,000 mph, according to Slooh. During its closest approach, the asteroid will fly about 8.8 lunar distances from Earth.

82 Depends on the year the Taurus was made. Prior to the late 90's after they bought the beretta plants, they used crap steel for the pistols. Malfunction junction.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 11:53 AM (x3YFz)

 

I own a Taurus PT-92 Baretta clone. I've fired about 1000 rounds through it without a single FTF. Of course, I keep my guns in as immaculate shape as I can. Some guns are junk but many others are just plain dirty and neglected and start failing as a cumulative effect.

 

And then there's the purpose of the weapon to take into account.  I bought an old 1980's AMT Backup .45 for a song because people are under the impressiion it's a junk gun. It isn't junk but it isn't a range gun, either. You can't shoot it all day at the range without a malfunction of some sort; however, you can fire the first three magazines without any trouble, every time. I look at it this way: if I'm shooting more than 2 or 3 magazines of .45 ACP without effect, then I'm in a gunfight with God and need to surrender immediately.

83 Mine workers representing Remington Arms workers?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 11:34 AM (d0Dmj)

Unions are bigger sluts than Fluke.  The Communications Workers of America represents not just telecom people, but:

"...teachers, maintenance and sanitation workers, probation officers, security officers, food service workers, computer technicians, life guards, park attendants, doctors, lawyers, accountants, mail clerks, nurses, correction officers, police, firemen, investigators, dentists, drivers, social workers, writers, technicians, photographers, telephone operators, library workers, nutritionists, childcare providers, building service workers, researchers, scientists, architects, reporters, (physical) therapists and home health aides."

Basically, they'll "represent" anyone they can extort dues from.

84 It's the magazine. A 1911 with a classic 7-rd magazine is legal in NY, but the 8-rd or higher mags are illegal. The pistol itself is ok. Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 11:58 AM (GQ8sn) The "magazines" he's talking about aren't readily removable. I've got a Winchester Model 190 and a Springfield Model 87a that are configured like he's talking about. Winchester: http://tinyurl.com/ldf3b76

85 Scientists estimate that 2000 EM26 is about 885 feet in diameter, and it is whizzing through the solar system at a break-neck 27,000 mph, according to Slooh. During its closest approach, the asteroid will fly about 8.8 lunar distances from Earth.


What could go wrong?

86 My q about tubular mags still stands unanswered. It is applicable to rifles and shotguns. My Winchester model 94 .30-30 has a tubular mag, as does my Winchester model 62 .22. Neither mags can be removed, as is the case with most all rifles I know with tubes.

87 Monday gun thread? Unpossible!

88 I figured I'd cobble one together from bamboo, diamonds, and makeshift black powder. Disappointed there was no duct tape of Liquid Nails involved. Other than that a fine thread.

89 78 I can differ with the "good cause" thing as re NY CCW, which by the way is the only way one can OWN a handgun in NY.

Good cause for me was "likes to shoot at targets."

But it may vary county by county.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at February 17, 2014 12:00 PM (tmFlQ)

... I know what you're saying but the argument is a steaming pile of horseshit.

You don't include an Amendment to the Constitution for "target shooting" or for "hunting."  (Where's the fishing amendment?)

The design was political.  That is, to allow the citizenry to retain power.

Any other interpretation of the 2d is nonsense.

90 Ignorance. Never heard of it.

91
The "magazines" he's talking about aren't readily removable. I've got a Winchester Model 190 and a Springfield Model 87a that are configured like he's talking about.

Winchester: http://tinyurl.com/ldf3b76


Marlin Glenfield. 22lr.

92 Cal Guns came out with cool little chart showing projections for CCW's if the ruling stands.

http://bit.ly/1jLdTO8

Notice that San Fransisco has a grand total of 2 current permit holders.

I'm in LA county which isn't much better. I've never been able to afford the big campaign contribution to Sheriff Baca to get one. 

93 For anyone who's interested: On Feb 14, I got an email from Cheaper Than Dirt about Mosin Nagant Hungarian surplus ammo on sale. $189.89 for an 880 round 7.62 x 54R case. Item number is AMM-657. I don't own one so I don't know if that's a good price or not, nor do I know if it's good ammo.

94 More details about the robbery gone bad (for the dead perp). The victim had been robbed numerous times before. He was a jeweler. From gunsdotcom "Apparently Petit had been dealing with thieves stealing from him since 2006 when $550 worth of fishing gear and a boat were stolen from his yard. As the years went on, the value of what was taken from the man continually increased. Earlier last year, while on his way to a flea market to sell jewelry, Petit was robbed of a tote he was carrying which contained $30,000 worth of jewelry. But the bag also contained some of his personal information, which Petit believes was used to target him in subsequent robberies. In April, Petit left his home while his 72-year-old wife was asleep inside, and while he was gone, someone broke into the house and stole $4,500 in cash and $60,000 worth of jewelry. Some of the jewelry was recovered when a man brought it into a pawn shop. However, authorities do not believe that Deziel, who had no prior criminal record, was connected to the previous robberies. Petit did not reveal at what point he bought his .38 or when he started carrying it. Prosecutor Scarlett Wilson and Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon confirmed Thursday that no charges would be filed against Petit." Glad no charges will be filed. In another story, the reporter said that the robber had no prior criminal history and was an "appliance repairman", but listed the criminal history of the victim (received stolen goods and I forget what the other thing was). Nothing like putting the victim on trial.

95 Cal Guns came out with cool little chart showing projections for CCW's if the ruling stands.

http://bit.ly/1jLdTO8

Notice that San Fransisco has a grand total of 2 current permit holders.


Pelosi is one of them.

96 The cool thing about the model 62 Winchester pump .22, is you can hold the trigger and pump as fast as you can and spray a lot of little lead projectiles. Almost as fast as a semi auto.

97 The "magazines" he's talking about aren't readily removable. I've
got a Winchester Model 190 and a Springfield Model 87a that are
configured like he's talking about.


Then they're probably "technically" illegal since they have a capacity greater than what the SAFE act has written.

98 Who's Gigny? shit. Now they know I read the post

99 Who's Gigny?



shit. Now they know I read the post

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2014 12:05 PM (NSX2I)

Weirddave's other wife.

100 With all the new pistols and rifles out there, I do have to say I'm tempted, but the armory is full... er.... it was full until that boat capsized.

I'm barely proficient in 3 of my chosen firearms, and that's taken decades. 

Can't in good conscience buy another single weapon.

Not enough time, money, or ammo to become an expert with what I have, let alone new stuff.

101 Careful about using diamonds. They will strip the rifling out of a bamboo barrel.

102 The gun laws are so bad there [ [i]How bad are they, Stringer? ] that the only way to get a gun is to dig one up from the back yard. Ergo, Mine Workers.

In 1997, I got a Smith Sigma in .40 for my wife [ [i]All together, "Great trade!"  ] and it has proven accurate, comfortable and reliable, despite many rumors that went around.  Son went with the M and P model, always the rebel, and although it feels foreign in my hand, he's an expert with it. Last time I checked, he could not outshoot me with the 1911.

103 Not enough time, money, or ammo to become an expert with what I have, let alone new stuff.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:07 PM (x3YFz)

 

Depends on what you mean by 'expert'. Not everyone needs to be Elmer Keith. If I can consistently hit center mass with a tight group at 7 yards with a given handgun or at 100 yards with a rifle, then I consider myself expert enough.

104 The prob I ran into in my state cop BCI detective interview, a required part of the NY CCW process, is he would not buy the "protection" thing. Says, "what do you mean, you think you might get attacked?" I had no answer other than saying, "there are potential threats anywhere." So he says, "let's just change this to 'likes to shoot at targets." I suppose I could have claimed a problem with varmints and porcupines.

105 $189.89 for an 880 round 7.62 x 54R case. Item number is AMM-657. I don't own one so I don't know if that's a good price or not, nor do I know if it's good ammo.

Posted by: Bill R. at February 17, 2014 12:05 PM (QnRSM)

For that price?  Chinese, dirty ammo.  That's essentially a .308 round.  Garbage in, garbage out.

106 30- that really did make me LOL.

I've seen that rape stats meme a few times now. I have not idea about the backstory here, or if it's even legit. Research I much.

107 Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 17, 2014 12:08 PM (xq1UY) It's open-mike night, er, morning at the HQ.

108 This taser robber story is so intriguing to me for some reason. I just found this little nugget from the heraldonline: "Officials said Robert Deziel of Summerville had on an extra layer of clothing, and officials say they think he meant to rob Petit, then shed a layer of clothing as he ran away." So now Mr. Deziel's family won't be able to say "He was just going door to door collecting blankets for the poor when he was innocently gunned down".

109 Careful about using diamonds. They will strip the rifling out of a bamboo barrel. Posted by: Jinx the Cat at February 17, 2014 12:07 PM
====
Heh.  One of the Sharpe's Rifles novels has Sharpe firing a 3-pounder grasshopper gun loaded with gold and jewels to break up an infantry assault against his position.

OT:  yesterday's cooking post is still percolating, with discussion trending with info on kitchen knives and blade maintenance.

110 63 I looked for the news article on the Valentines Day flower delivery robbery but only one report I can find. It appears the police described the suspects over the radio in a non-PC method, so nothing to see people, move on. See, racial microaggressions. Another example is if you put a black person in a black role and give the character a black name. But onlyif the person doing this is white.

111

The ruling, if it stands, would require local governments to issue permits to anyone of good moral character]/b] who wants to carry a concealed gun for self-protection.

 

 

In California?  What is the litmus test?

112

 

113 Everyone should own a 1911.

114 That new little Remington R51 handgun, with the made-for-it CrimsonTrace laser, is a pretty piece, and not a whole lot of money.

115 Depends on what you mean by 'expert'. Not everyone needs to be Elmer Keith. If I can consistentlyhit center mass with a tight group at 7 yards with a given handgun or at 100 yards with a rifle, then I consider myself expert enough.

Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 12:10 PM (V9ol4)

I define it as  10/20/25 yards with pistol, 100, 150, 200 rifle.  Depends entirely on what you've trained to do.

Clearing malfunctions, firing off-hand, 1-hand reloading, etc...

Not that my standards are better, just different.

Just remember:  the bad guys never actually hold still while you shoot at them.

116 44 I still like my M9.

I know, I know... it's not sexy.

Posted by: tangonine"

-----------------

Say what?!? I've got an M9 and it's sexy as Kate Beckinsale licking vanilla ice cream.

When Beretta first designed that trademark sculpted nose back with the Modello 1919, they cornered the market on handgun sexiness for the next 100 years.

117 Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 12:07 PM (GQ8sn) Uh oh. Cousin got 3 bricks of .22lr at Wally World for about 70 bucks. Happened to be there when they were unloading it. 3 was the limit and sold out within 45 minutes.

118 SD9VE at buds gun shop $338 cash much better than the sigma at least aesthetically my buddy had one almost like new couldnt get $250 for it

119 I hate the barrel on Mondays.  Sweet baby moses this thing reeks, is sticky, and I swear  something is moving in here.

120 Derp... Modello 1915.

121 Gingy is Weirddave's transwife. Gingy is his ciswife. Heteronormativetranscishaters.

122 113 Everyone should own a 1911. Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 12:13 PM (GQ8sn) I'm the heretic on this one. No desire to own a 1911.

123 For that price? Chinese, dirty ammo. That's essentially a .308 round. Garbage in, garbage out.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:10 PM (x3YFz)

 

I own two Mosins, one rifle and one M44 carbine. The carbine, especially, is an excellent performer with a beautiful action. Same is true of the Polish Tokarev I own. The commies couldn't make cars, TVs or washing machines, but their weaponry was, by and large, wonderfully fitted and machined.

124 92 Hey B-ninja I'm in laco too

125 I'm the heretic on this one. No desire to own a 1911.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2014 12:15 PM (da5Wo)

In some ways, it's like a classic muscle car.  Never goes out of style.

126
   Small bright spot in the safe act saga--the requirement for a background check when buying ammo has quietly  been backpedaled.

   Pending re-writing, if my source is correct, and I have no reason not to believe him.

127 Everyone should own a 1911.


Except left handers. Until they make a left handed version. Mag release. Slide lock.
Etc. I've had two 1911's before. I'll stick with my H and K.

128 See, I can't even spell improperly. *slaps self upside head*

129 Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 12:13 PM (GQ8sn) I think everyone does. What .with the hundredth anniversary bringing so many new manufacturers to the 1911 table, and the phillipino imports, there's been a flood of them. I doubt that the retailers have been stockpiling them

130 @   122


    Range therapy can help with this.

131 During its closest approach, the asteroid will fly about 8.8 lunar distances from Earth. Earth to moon 238,854 miles. 8.8 X that = 2,101,915 miles away. At 27,000 miles per hour, that would take 77 hours to hit us if it suddenly changed direction. Plenty of time for President Obama to give a historic speech saving the planet.

132 Have the S&W Sigma 9 myself. For under $400 dollars it's a steal. Feels great in your hand. Only safety however is not chambering a round. No children here, so it's safe so long as you observe the finger rule.

133 122 113 Everyone should own a 1911.

Posted by: EC at February 17, 2014 12:13 PM (GQ8sn)


I'm the heretic on this one. No desire to own a 1911.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2014 12:15 PM (da5Wo)

Same same.

My dad had one.  I just never liked it.  I have 2 .45s, and I like the pistols I have the fire it, but I'm more of a .40 guy and my 9mms.

Trust me:  at the end of the day you don't want to be shot with anything.  Not to start the "which round is a  better 1-shot stopper" conversation here, but even if you get shot with a 9mm it's going to hurt.  A lot.

134

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:10 PM (x3YFz)

It doesn't say anything about Chinese. It says it's Hungarian surplus and comes in two sealed 440 round tins. As I said, I don't own one but I'm just putting it out there.

135 Just remember: the bad guys never actually hold still while you shoot at them.

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:14 PM (x3YFz)

 

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I was kind of hoping they'd just stand there obligingly, necks rigid and shoulders squared.

136

An asteroid the size of three football fields is set to make a close brush of Earth on Monday, and you can watch the flyby in a live webcast.

SMOD, you taunt us so.

137 Are the Remington R-51s in the stores yet?

138 At 27,000 miles per hour, that would take 77 hours to hit us if it suddenly changed direction. Plenty of time for President Obama to give a historic speech saving the planet.


The speech itself will be 76 hours.

139 I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I was kind of hoping they'd just stand there obligingly, necks rigid and shoulders squared.

Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 12:18 PM (V9ol4)

"Here, hold this bowling pin against your torso."

140 Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:10 PM (x3YFz)
It doesn't say anything about Chinese. It says it's Hungarian surplus and comes in two sealed440 round tins. As I said, I don't own one but I'm just putting it out there.

Posted by: Bill R. at February 17, 2014 12:18 PM (QnRSM)

Might be good plinking ammo.

Prepare for lots of misfires and a lot of cleaning (sonic cleaners remove all the work, though).

141 Except left handers. Until they make a left handed version. Mag release. Slide lock. Etc. I've had two 1911's before. I'll stick with my H and K. Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 12:16 PM (d0Dmj) Cabit South Paw

142 @121  So, this "Gigny" has a goatee?

143 The speech itself will be 76 hours.

And he'll show up late.

144 Bill R.

Read the reviews.  Usually if a batch on CTD is poop, folks will say so.

145 Whoa. Cabot South Paw - $5750

146 "114 That new little Remington R51 handgun, with the made-for-it CrimsonTrace laser, is a pretty piece, and not a whole lot of money. Posted by: the littl shyning man"

--------------

Don't be the beta tester. Early reports show some problems, the worst of which being that it is extraordinarily easy to put it back together ever-so-slightly wrong, resulting in it not going bang when desired.

147 Cabit South Paw


Retail price:  $5750.


Kate Upton should deliver it and give you a handy while you unbox it.

148 I don't have a 1911 either. I'm a wheel guy.

149 So we did our Taxes last night, and it turns out I loaned ~$600 (interest free) to the US Government. Anyone care to guess how much of that refund I'll get to spend on myself? C'mon... guess.

150
Etc. I've had two 1911's before. I'll stick with my H and K.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 12:16 PM (d0Dmj)


Cabit South Paw

Posted by: RWC at February 17, 2014 12:20 PM (NSX2I)

The HK ambi mag release is pretty cool.  (it's just below the trigger guard)

151 Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:14 PM (x3YFz) IMHO, if you carry the most important thing to practice is speed of presentation. Most people assume they'll have a second or two of prep time before an attack. Not fuckin true. Most times attacks happen quickly, violently, and with no warning. You have to be able to get your gun into the fight, usually with one hand, as the other is busy trying to save your ass.

152 Range therapy can help with this. Posted by: irongrampa at February 17, 2014 12:17 PM (SAMxH) *shrugs* I've got my SW MP.40, I'm probably gonna pull the trigger on a Ruger LC380 soon. The 1911s have just never done anything for me. I look at them and all I think is "meh". Then I see what most people want for them and "thanks but no thanks I'll just move on down the aisle." Guns are like cars, women and booze, everyone has their own preference.

153 Except left handers. Until they make a left handed version. Mag release. Slide lock.

Etc. I've had two 1911's before. I'll stick with my H and K.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 17, 2014 12:16 PM (d0Dmj)


Cabit South Paw


$5,750. Um, no thanks. I could AND would buy 5 H and K USP's.

154 Chris Loesch has a nice singing voice.  He sang the national anthem at the Magpul "Goodbye, you uptight Colorado gungrabbing Democrats" farewell party.  Dana Loesch was the guest speaker.

155 "Just remember: the bad guys never actually hold still while you shoot at them." Also remember a recent study showed that in the last 30 or so years no homeowner in the US has been killed by an intruder after said intruder had been shot at least once by said homeowner with a .22lr

156 Guns are like cars, women and booze, everyone has their own preference. Also, like cars, women, and booze- that the luxury model is qualitatively better doesn't matter when you can only afford the economy model.

157
The HK ambi mag release is pretty cool. (it's just below the trigger guard)


Plus the decock lever. And Mag release.

158 The .22 rimfire may be the most useful and practical cartridge in the world.

159 Also remember a recent study showed that in the last 30 or so years no homeowner in the US has been killed by an intruder after said intruder
had been shot at least once by said homeowner with a .22lr

Posted by: sound awake at February 17, 2014 12:23 PM (fKOqs)

This.

You put 9 steel balls out of your mossberg into bad guy #1 and I don't care how many friends he brought with him, they'll be beating feet once they see that their buddy is missing most of his chest cavity.

160 The .22 rimfire may be the most useful and practicalcartridge in the world. Except for the pain of reloading (read: you really can't).

161 Guns are like cars, women and booze, everyone has their own preference. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 17, 2014 12:23 PM (da5Wo) *yoinks yours*

162 The Winchester Model 94 will only hold 6 or 8 in the magazine depending on the model you get (length of barrel) so it is legal.

163 TTAG's review of the R51. The fail-to-fire actually will occur randomly, probably not on the first shot, for bonus surprise points:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/foghorn/gun-review-remington-r51/

164 81 -

What happens if the wind changes?  Have  the sciency scientists thought of that?

165 I'm a left-handed shooter who loves 1911s.  An ambi safety is a must for me, but I have no problem with the magazine button or the slide release lever.  I even shot my Baker rifle (replica) left-handed.  Every shot was an adventure

166 whatever happened to the AOS gun podcast?

167 158 The .22 rimfire may be the most useful and practicalcartridge in the world.

Posted by: maddogg at February 17, 2014 12:25 PM (xWW96)

And hardest to come by...

Rarer than gold these days.

168 Everyone should own a 1911.xx I have one sort of in my dad's will. But for now it's stand in is a Ruger P91DC http://www.gunsamerica.com/994535372/RUGER_P91_DC_STAINLESS_40_CALIBER.htm

169 So we did our Taxes last night, and it turns out I loaned ~$600 (interest free) to the US Government. Anyone care to guess how much of that refund I'll get to spend on myself? C'mon... guess. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 17, 2014 12:22 PM (PYAXX) Considering that you will be keeping your womenfolk happy, thus making your life happy, all of it.

170 OK, I think we all need to have a moment of moron silence in memory of the poor thug who brought a Taser to a gun fight. Here's his obit: "R. Joseph "Jojo" Deziel, Jr. SUMMERVILLE - Robert Joseph "Jojo" Deziel, Jr., 25, passed away Sunday, February 9, 2014. A casual memorial service will be held this afternoon from 3:00pm-8:00pm at 3353 Von Oshen Road Summerville 29485. Jojo was born May 13, 1988 in Charleston, son of Robert J. Deziel, Sr. of Summerville and Tina Marie Drennon Deziel of Summerville. Jojo was known for his kind, big heart and would have given you the shirt off his back. His jokes and smile would light up any room. Surviving in addition to his parents are: one sister: Jessica Deziel of Summerville, two nieces: Mariah and Makayla Collins both of Summerville. Also his loving family and many friends." I guess he would have given you the shirt off his back because he was wearing two when he was found? Or he would have given you the shirt off his back because he could wear the one he just stole? I wonder if he was a druggie/meth addict. Anyways, his "easy", 76 year old target ended up not being a victim of robbery again.

171 The beretta has an ambi safety, as does the HK (ambi decock and mag release)

172 "You put 9 steel balls out of your mossberg into bad guy #1 and I don't care how many friends he brought with him, they'll be beating feet once they see that their buddy is missing most of his chest cavity." Ha! And those guys have absolutely no code of brotherhood. At that point, it's every man for himself, not "no man left behind"...

173 I guess I'd have to say I prefer wheelguns too, but by time you get to seven or eight capacity, you're talking about a big heavy gun, not great for carrying anywhere but the woods. Or now. In never-ending winter.

174 Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 17, 2014 12:29 PM (VtjlW) You make a compelling point, your highness-ness. Actually, I think my wife may let me spring for one of those combination coffee table/gun safes.

175 Posted by: runningrn at February 17, 2014 12:29 PM (o6g4X) They forgot his presence in the church choir will be sorely missed. He was just beginning to turn his life around.

176

Posted by: tangonine at February 17, 2014 12:28 PM (x3YFz)

I really don't get the deal on that. I got a flyer from Midway USA listing about 15 brands of .22 with the "currently out of stock" in fine print under each description save for a couple types of subsonic high dollar target ammo. 

177 there there... I carry an HK P2000. I'm an equal opportunity handgun owner.
Posted by: tangonine

Brother!

That's what I carry.  It's my favorite. 

178 But the chances of picking up that sweet Winchester lever action are slim to none.

179
   For me, as I've said numerous times, the 1911 grip and my hand are a perfect match.  Nothing else has come really close.

    I carry with it, and the one thing that I simply can't do is carry cocked and locked.  Just cannot force myself to.

180 170 OK, I think we all need to have a moment of moron silence in memory of the poor thug who brought a Taser to a gun fight. Here's his obit:

"R. Joseph "Jojo" Deziel, Jr. SUMMERVILLE - Robert Joseph "Jojo" Deziel, Jr., 25, passed away Sunday, February 9, 2014. A casual memorial service will be held this afternoon from 3:00pm-8:00pm at 3353 Von Oshen Road Summerville 29485. Jojo was born May 13, 1988 in Charleston, son of Robert J. Deziel, Sr. of Summerville and Tina Marie Drennon Deziel of Summerville. Jojo was known for his kind, big heart and would have given you the shirt off his back. His jokes and smile would light up any room. Surviving in addition to his parents are: one sister: Jessica Deziel of Summerville, two nieces: Mariah and Makayla Collins both of Summerville. Also his loving family and many friends."

I guess he would have given you the shirt off his back because he was wearing two when he was found? Or he would have given you the shirt off his back because he could wear the one he just stole? I wonder if he was a druggie/meth addict. Anyways, his "easy", 76 year old target ended up not being a victim of robbery again.

Posted by: runningrn at February 17, 2014 12:29 PM (o6g4X)

How does the "kind, big heart" thing mesh with robbing senior citizens?

Let's go with "unbeating heart in the coroner's locker because he was a dumbass."

181 Oops, not Midway, Sportsman's Guide.

182 For me, as I've said numerous times, the 1911 grip and my hand are a perfect match. Nothing else has come really close.

I carry with it, and the one thing that I simply can't do is carry cocked and locked. Just cannot force myself to.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 17, 2014 12:32 PM (SAMxH)

Go with what you're happy with, what's comfortable.

183 Posted by: maddogg at February 17, 2014 12:31 PM (xWW96) .22LR is a fantastically versatile round. People can use .22LR for rifle practice and handgun practice, and- as mentioned- a .22LR is plenty to stop your average home robber.

184 Talk about stupid. An excellent way to get yourself blown away on a foggy morning or evening.

Considering how many farmers have to spray paint COW in bold neon colors to keep their livestock from springing leaks, I'd say you're right.

185 Most times attacks happen quickly, violently, and with no warning.
You have to be able to get your gun into the fight, usually with one hand, as the other is busy trying to save your ass.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 17, 2014 12:23 PM (agLwc)

 

Training yourself to be aware and observant of your surroundings isn't that hard although I think some of those guys in perpetual combat fatigues selling self-defense and 'tactical' courses try to make it seem like a mystical skill picked up in Tibetan monastaries.  I taught my kids Jeff Cooper's color code, taught them threat assessment, how to be aware, to know what's going on around them. In most instances, I think, people are surprised who shouldn't and wouldn't be surprised if they were paying attention. Most bad guys are not ninja. They telegraph their intentions, more often than not.

186 I guess I'd have to say I prefer wheelguns too, but by time you get to seven or eight capacity, you're talking about a big heavy gun, not great for carrying anywhere but the woods.

Taurus .357 Tracker 4" Barrel. 7 shot.

187 You make a compelling point, your highness-ness. Actually, I think my wife may let me spring for one of those combination coffee table/gun safes. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 17, 2014 12:31 PM (PYAXX) That would be awesome and good for everyone, thus a win win! I got my tax refund already and while yay monies I am still peeved that I cannot figure out the sweet spot of getting some minor amount back since I don't want to have to pay and getting multiple hundreds of my own damn money back.

188 Brother!

That's what I carry. It's my favorite.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 17, 2014 12:31 PM (J79eW)

I had to put some gel around the base of my mags.  Once the first round is fed, they can tend to wiggle, depending on the manufacturer.

Other than that, it's a great pistol.

189 Steel? I'm assuming you meant lead. I've never seen any steel buckshot. That doesn't mean anything, though, I don't buy a lot of buckshot.

190 http://greyttimes.com/?p=749

Bonhomme, here's mine in my daily loadout.  IWB carry in a Gould B890 G30 holster (the glock 30 holster works for both)

191 Actually, most of the bad guys are dunber than a pan of cat shit. So getting their drift requires denial or a dead nose to trouble.

192 Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 12:33 PM (V9ol4) True enough, but watch you-tube or liveleak videos of attacks taken by security cameras enough, and you realize how viciously and rapidly a man can be set upon. You can't be too prideful when carrying. If something looks like its about to happen, don't be there is the rule, wouldn't you say?

193 184 -

Wouldn't that make it more difficult for them to  sell them later?  I mean, the meat would still be alright, but you couldn't sell the leather for jackets and stuff with the word "COW"  written on it. 

194 Here, stand side by side for me. http://tinyurl.com/l7gl2sd Updated duckbill - the Gator.

195 Steel? I'm assuming you meant lead. I've never seen any steel buckshot. That doesn't mean anything, though, I don't buy a lot of buckshot.

#4 shot. Duck & Goose.

196 #4 shot. Duck Goose. ----------------- 9 pellets in those?

197 True enough, but watch you-tube or liveleak videos of attacks taken by security cameras enough, and you realize how viciously and rapidly a man can be set upon.

You can't be too prideful when carrying. If something looks like its about to happen, don't be there is the rule, wouldn't you say?

Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 17, 2014 12:38 PM (agLwc)

Yup.

Keep your SA dialed up, always.

Going through life assessing everyone as a threat is tiresome, and sometimes you just want a freaking slushie, but the 1 minute you let your guard down....

My modified USMC words:

- Be professional
- Be respectful
- Trust no one
- Have a plan to kill everyone you meet

198 Not sure why I'm so fixated on this story. From the Carolinagunclub blog: "According to Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon, the suspect, 25-year-old Robert Joseph Deziel, was carrying a stun gun made to look like a cell phone during the incident." Too bad it wasn't a multi-tasking stun gun/cellphone combo for real! The thug could have called 911 when the victim fired at him the first three time (and missed because he was laying on the ground as the thug tried to taze him). It might have saved JoJo's life. The 76 year old didn't hit him until the 4th shot.

199 "How does the "kind, big heart" thing mesh with robbing senior citizens? Let's go with "unbeating heart in the coroner's locker because he was a dumbass." LOL! I'm sure his kind, big heart was only trying to assist the elderly man across the street...

200 "According to Charleston County Sheriff Al Cannon, the suspect, 25-year-old Robert Joseph Deziel, was carrying a stun gun made to look like a cell phone during the incident." ----------------------------------- Wonder if he tried to call 911 on it?

201 I'm the heretic on this one. No desire to own a 1911.

Agreed.  I don't like them.

The safety is finnicky.  It's easy as balls to fire two shots when you meant to fire one.  The teardown and rebuild requires tools for basic cleaning. 

They're beautiful, and they feel nice in your hand, but my H&K P2000 just works better for me.

202 Thanks to Jim of Sunk New Dawn, Arbalest, and others for the advice on the unofficial gun thread on Saturday's ONT. I had one guy in the store tell me Howa was just a Remington clone, although it sounds like their barrels are more rigorously tested. Found a few Howa dealers in the area, also a couple who deal in CZ though with the American style discontinued, I may not find what I want there. Anyone who can speak to the lower end Weatherby models? The Mark V models look nice but I'm not dropping 3K on my first rifle. I think the Weatherby is a Howa license?

203 #4 shot. Duck Goose.

-----------------

9 pellets in those?


192. Still. Bad news at room clearing ranges. Ground hamburger.

204 One video in particular was classic. Taken from a second story camera, you could see one lone man walking along the sidewalk, and in the distance, four yutes come around the corner. The lone men does a quick pause, stutter-step, and then continues on. He recognized the threat, and didn't react properly! Probably didn't want to be seen as racist by crossing the street. Three seconds of video later, as they were getting close, all four yutes charged and beat the dude. From the time of recognition to the time of attack, plenty for someone to prepare themselves. From the time of engagement, no gunslinger in any movie ever, would have been quick enough to draw and prevent harm from themselves.

205 http://tinyurl.com/n6trbsg

Shot Pellet Information and Recommendations

By Chuck Hawks

206 Bonhomme, here's mine in my daily loadout. IWB carry in a Gould B890 G30 holster (the glock 30 holster works for both)

Is that a SEAL challenge coin?

207 Apparently JoJo just started to get his thug on. That career ended pretty damn quickly. We found no criminal history on Deziel in Charleston, Berkeley or Dorchester counties. Nothing but a few traffic tickets. We did find three Facebook pages for him, though, all under the name "Jojo Deziel". We found absolutely no indication of any thug type activities on any of those pages.

208 You can't be too prideful when carrying. If something looks like its about to happen, don't be there is the rule, wouldn't you say?

Posted by: OneEyedJack at February 17, 2014 12:38 PM (agLwc)

 

That's the rule I've tried to impart to my children. And please don't get me wrong: carrying a gun doesn't make me invulnerable, especially not to my own stupidity. I make it a point to steer clear of people, places, things and situations that might conceivably be a source of trouble or pose a risk or a threat of some sort. If it says anything, the younger me would be just the type to seek those places out. I'd like to think I've grown up a little.

209 Wouldn't that make it more difficult for them to sell them later? I mean, the meat would still be alright, but you couldn't sell the leather for jackets and stuff with the word "COW" written on it.

I don't know how long that paint lasts on a living being in the outdoors, but my guess is the tradeoff is worth it.  I'd be damn pissed off if some hunter put holes in my cattle and then took off when they realized it wasn't a big deer.

210 Nood up!

211 202 Thanks to Jim of Sunk New Dawn, Arbalest, and others for the advice on the unofficial gun thread on Saturday's ONT. I had one guy in the store tell me Howa was just a Remington clone, although it sounds like their barrels are more rigorously tested. Found a few Howa dealers in the area, also a couple who deal in CZ though with the American style discontinued, I may not find what I want there. Anyone who can speak to the lower end Weatherby models? The Mark V models look nice but I'm not dropping 3K on my first rifle. I think the Weatherby is a Howa license?

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at February 17, 2014 12:45 PM (3g+OA)

Why are you not starting with a Remington 700?  First rifle, right?

212 the younger me would be just the type to seek those places out. I'd like to think I've grown up a little. Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 12:50 PM (2jF2B) I could have said those same words.

213 That's the rule I've tried to impart to my children. And please don't get me wrong: carrying a gun doesn't make me invulnerable, especially not to my own stupidity. I make it a point to steer clear of people, places, things and situations that might conceivably be a source of trouble or pose a risk or a threat of some sort. If it says anything, the younger me would be just the type to seek those places out. I'd like to think I've grown up a little.

Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 12:50 PM (2jF2B)

Carrying implies a thing or two.  One of which is you never make the choice to place yourself in a position where you'll have to use your weapon.

Good advice, Troy.  This isn't a warzone.  We don't seek trouble, and actively avoid it.

214 #147, Cabot Arms pays their polishers more than some trial lawyers make. If you ever make it to SHOT or NRA, stop by their booth. People rave about prewar Colt bluing or what Turnbull Restorations can accomplish- Cabot's is at LEAST that nice.

Besides, they're a sideline to an aerospace contractor. They only CNC pistols because they think it's fun, and they build that way. Everything's custom, everything's got a spec sheet. Yeah, one of their pistols is what I make in three months, but fuck me senseless if I don't want one anyway.

215 This may be too late since there is a new thread up, but I wish to express my gratitude to the AoSHQ morons and 'ettes.  You have done so much to help me know things to do if faced with an emergency situation, even as an unarmed, wimpy, middle-aged lady.

Someday I will have a gun.  And I feel I am more equipped to use it responsibly thanks to the insight and experience you all share here.

216 CC's iPhone: Thanks for the vote. I can't say much about manufacturers, other than general quality (which is mostly well-known knowledge). But yes, IIRC, Weatherbys have been made in Japan for quite some time, and I think by Howa. The quality is, of course, first rate. The only problems I have with Weatherby, other than cost, are the excellent wood they use (can't take the rifle out of the display case, as the risk of scratching the stock is too high; but I think they usually also include a synthetic stock now), and the laser engraving (no engraving is preferable). To get the magnum performance from a magnum caliber (7mm or larger), a 27 inch barrel (+/-) is needed. Otherwise, the performance is more of a same-caliber-non-magnum +P+ load. If you're still looking, perhaps a Savage is a good choice. Savage seems to be spending some serious effort on making a high-quality action, with good barrels and in a wide variety of calibers.

217 The wife and I went looking for a .40 S&W pistol for our collection and settled on the thingie pictured above mostly due to price. It performed flawlessly but we kept shooting low. It has a looong trigger pull and only by concentrating really hard on pulling the trigger straight back were we able to least put our shots closer to where we were aiming. We said screw this and promptly traded it in for a Ruger SR40C. It has proven to be a much better gun for us.

218 #215- Mindy, start learning BEFORE you buy one. It will help you decide what you want. A pistol has to feel good in your hand or you won't enjoy shooting it. If you don't enjoy shooting it, you won't train with it, and a weapon you won't train with is a paperweight.

If you feel comfortable letting us know where you are, roughly, we can point you toward a good instructor. There are a lot of really dangerously misinformed douchebags calling themselves "instructors" and "tactical trainers."

219  The only problems I have with Weatherby, other than cost, are the excellent wood they use (can't take the rifle out of the display case, as the risk of scratching the stock is too high; but I think they usually also include a synthetic stock now), and the laser engraving (no engraving is preferable).

Posted by: Arbalest at February 17, 2014 01:02 PM (FlRtG)

 

I can't imagine owning a gun I couldn't take out and shoot for fear of scratching the stock, but that's just me. When I was a kid, I'd read comic books to tatters. I have a friend who still has the comics he had as a kid. He keeps them in sealed plastic envelopes and when he reads them he turns the pages with padded tweezers. His collection is worth a small fortune. I saw a GI Joe footlocker in mint condition with all the pieces on eBay for $5000. Dumbass kid that I was, I played with mine. It's a matter of temperment, I guess.

220 My Olde Winchester .22 boltie with a 16 round tubular magazine in Jersey is considered an Assault Rifle and could get me 20 to life if I hadn't lost it during a tragic flood in Hurricane Sandy.

221 I know what you mean troy. My Kimber almost never sees the light of day, for fear of marring it, but my Rugers have all kinds of fun. Using your stuff is more fun.

222

@ c. Crank,

 

Thank YOU amigo, for the kind words.

 

The Weatherby is not a license made "by" Weatherby.  It is made, one end to the other, by Howa under contract "to" Weatherby.  It allows Weatherby to offer a more price-friendly rifle than their rather expensive Mk. V model.

 

 

And whatever gunstore commando told you that the Howa is a Remington 700 clone?  Don't ever trust that source for advice, ever again.  Pull the bolts side by side on those, and pull the actions from the stocks.  You'll see that they're far, far from clones.

 

 

If you opt for the Weatherby, look into the "MOA" of the Vanguard.  Guaranteed sub MOA results with certain ammo, some limitations, of course.

 

 

For your budget, I'd opt for the Howa, and one of the scopes I'd listed in the previous thread.  Going up budget, the Remington is certainly a great choice, as are certain Savage models.

 

 

Again, thanks and good luck!

 

 

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

 

223 What's the process for bodyguards to get permits in NY and CA? The wealthy do have guards, right?

224 I had an SD40VE and despised it. Had the worst trigger I have ever experienced. The only way I could maintain decent accuracy was to be very, very focused and deliberate, and even then practice ended up being fatiguing due to the long, hard pull. Trying to rapid fire it was an exercise in pray and spray and it wound up everywhere. I traded it and a full size Colt 1911 for a Kimber commander frame and couldn't be happier.

225 I had an SD40VE and despised it. Had the worst trigger I have ever experienced.

Posted by: Name at February 17, 2014 01:57 PM (kdYPC)

 

Worst Trigger Award goes to the Ruger LCP, in my view: long, long, creepy and gritty. The LCP is purely a self-defense tool and not a range gun, I know, but I like good double-action triggers--my old Smith and Wesson K38 Target Masterpiece has a beautifully smooth DA trigger. There's a certain feel to a good DA trigger that's hard for me to describe, a kind of smooth rolling motion up to the break that you can sense in the mechanism once you get going. Nothing like it in the world.

226 Posted by: SGT Dan's Cat at February 17, 2014 01:15 PM (bzYZw) SGT Dan's Cat, thank you so much! I'm in southern Colorado. One option I have -- recently learned that a former student is now an instructor. His daughter is in my class this semester, and I encouraged her to bring her piece to class if she wanted to. I want at least two sane, armed people in each of my classes.

227 226 -- Also, what is the procedure if you don't have your own equipment?

228 So Little VIA and I head to the range, and Dave posts a gun thread.
Damn it!

Anyhow, Cabela, 500 rds 22lr on sale now.

229 Mindy, easiest thing to do is find a good rental range with a wide selection (if you're vacationing there, there are even a few good ones in Las Vegas) or make friends with someone who has a fuck-ton of guns.

Now these days those of us with decent collections are a little less open about it, but we can be found. Me, I'm in Tennessee, so I'm no help.

Join ar15.com (not just for black rifles), look for the Hometown Forums, and click on Colorado.

230 And the range report.

Little VIA and I were playing with Mrs VIAs CMMG flat top dedicated upper on my Stag lower. Cheap UTG Red dot from Amazon, and Black Dog 15 rd mags that are on clearance at Black Dog right now for ten bucks each.

This upper has a total of about 400 rds through it so far. And in the last 250 rds, not a single FTF, or FTE.

Today we had a box of 50 CCI RNL standard velocity that there was some concern would not cycle properly.

When I had bought the upper, I found a forum thread concerning simple buffing and polishing steps one could take on the uppers to improve feed reliability.

That thread is here

http://tinyurl.com/pgl2lmy

Not shooting for accuracy yet, just having fun, and breaking it in.

Overall impression is that the upper is functioning at the high end of the reliability curve, which I attribute to the steps we took as shown in the thread.

Upper was $339.00 and free shipping with the phosphated bolt group from Mack's Prairie Wings.

Couple more weeks, and I hope to put a mid grade scope on it,and start getting Mrs VIA to go for accuracy.

I highly recommend going this route for either a beginner, or as an alternative lower cost choice for recoil therapy.

231 Who the hell is Gigny and why was her gun on my bed? (I miss all the fun.io had to go to school.)

232 Worst Trigger Award goes to the Ruger LCP, in my view: long, long, creepy and gritty. The LCP is purely a self-defense tool and not a range gun, I know, but I like gooddouble-action triggers--my old Smith and Wesson K38 Target Masterpiece has a beautifully smoothDA trigger. There's a certain feel to a good DA trigger that's hard for me to describe, a kind of smooth rolling motion up to the break that you can sense in the mechanism once you get going. Nothing like it in the world. Posted by: troyriser at February 17, 2014 02:14 PM (2jF2B) Comparing any damn trigger to a K series masterpiece is just going to be disappointing. I have a k22 and k38 and both triggers are flawless, with clean. predictable breaks in DA, and effortless in SA. In fact, I stopped using the K22 in SA because it feels like I'm cheating.

233 "Glock Nation is not impressed, but in my experience the S&W is a perfectly cromulent weapon, and much cheaper than a Glock."

The S&W M&P 40C my fee-yancy will be inheriting once she has her Texas DL is a nice solid weapon. I'm going so far as considering getting the full-size one in lieu of a 1911 to cut down on the proliferation of different cartridges in this household.

234 "I'm going so far as considering getting the full-size one in lieu of a 1911 to cut down on the proliferation of different cartridges in this household."

------------

Given the recent random nature of ammunition availability, I'm happy with my melange of calibers.

235 ".22LR is a fantastically versatile round. People can use .22LR for rifle practice and handgun practice, and- as mentioned- a .22LR is plenty to stop your average home robber.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at February 17, 2014 12:33 PM (PYAXX)"

That statement needs a bit of expansion.  The sight of any gun is enough to stop most rational people who don't want to be shot with anything. 

The thing about a .22 is that although many people have been killed by .22 bullets, it takes them a while to die and during that time between when they have been shot and when they expire, they are often capable of vigorous physical activity such as bashing in your head or stabbing you.  In the case of a head shot, there are plenty of documented cases of a .22 bouncing off the skull.  If the bullet does penetrate the skull into the brain pan, it will probably ricochet around inside three to five times, converting the brain into a brain slushy which tends to be a pretty instantaneous stop. 

If a .22 is all you have or all that you can shoot with confidence, that is what you should use.  Bullet placement is more important than ballistics and a hit by a .22 is better than a miss by a .44 magnum.  Still, all things being equal, a hit by a .38, 9mm, .40 or .45 is more likely to stop a home invader than a hit in the same place by a .22.  Even a .32 or .380 is likely to be more effective.

236
All it is, is a newer Sigma.  The Sigma was one of the biggest pieces of shit around.