March 31, 2014

Less Than One-Quarter of Obamacare Enrollees Were Previously Uninsured; Three Quarters Were People Thrown Off Their Existing Insurance
— Ace

Per a Rand Corporation study.

[O]f the people who have paid their first monthÂ’s premium on the Obamacare exchanges, and are thereby enrolled in coverage, 76 percent were previously insured, and 24 percent were previously uninsured.

...


WhatÂ’s important to remember is that this is not how Obamacare was supposed to work. The Congressional Budget Office, in its original estimates, predicted that the vast majority of the people eligible for subsidies on the exchanges would be previously uninsured individuals.

Guy Benson writes about all the chicanery in the Obamacare "sign-up" numbers, linking this piece by Marc Thiessen on the subject of the very small number of uninsured who have actually gotten insurance through Obamacare.

Recall that between 5 million and 6 million Americans lost their health plans because of Obamacare last fall. If the administration now succeeds in signing up 5 million to 6 million previously insured Americans, it will have achieved . . . nothing. Breaking even is no great accomplishment.

And let’s not forget: Many of those new Obamacare sign-ups are self-sufficient people who were previously paying their own way and now receive government subsidies for insurance. Creating government dependency is not progress — it’s a step backward.

The stated goal of Obamacare was not to move millions of privately insured Americans into taxpayer-subsidized health coverage. The goal was to cover the uninsured. That was the justification for all the chaos and disruption Americans have experienced — and that is the standard by which the administration should be judged.

...


Goldman Sachs is projecting that only 1 million Obamacare sign-ups will come from previously uninsured Americans. Indeed, it estimates that the number of total signups will be just 4 million — not 6 million, as the administration claims — because “HHS figures . . . count all persons who selected an ACA exchange plan regardless of whether or not they have actually completed the enrollment process by paying their premium.” Goldman Sachs also anticipates that fully 75 percent of all the Obamacare sign-ups will be from people who already had insurance.

All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured.

Posted by: Ace at 12:42 PM | Comments (417)
Post contains 385 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:43 PM (PYAXX)

2 I fucking hate them.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 31, 2014 12:43 PM (pgQxn)

3 Everything is perfect.

Posted by: Jay Carney at March 31, 2014 12:45 PM (/Nxsb)

4 The jokes on us.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 12:45 PM (IXrOn)

5 Okay, now how many people had insurance, and don't anymore? If 75% of 4 million (so... 3 million) HAD insurance already and signed up for ObamaCare, that gives us a ceiling of 1 million net enrollees. However, if 4 million people HAD insurance and ONLY 3 million of those have enrolled in ObamaCare, that makes our CEILING a net 0 (isn't this really the story of Obama?). And it only gets worse from there...

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:45 PM (PYAXX)

6 Like JEF's presidency, obamacare is a facade. Just another Dem prop on the Stage of Delusion.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 12:46 PM (IXrOn)

7 What are you talking about, I love my Obamacare plan!

Posted by: Doodad Pro at March 31, 2014 12:46 PM (78TbK)

8 Looking at the numbers, more people had insurance prior to Obama's election then now.

So we are paying more for less, and the nominal goal of the program has failed.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 31, 2014 12:47 PM (78TbK)

9 Also, I love how TFG is pretending like just saying "7 million have signed up!" will be good enough. It's like he thinks he can repeal math by executive fiat. Hey, genius, the point was that many people had to sign up to make the plan "financially viable" (which it never was going to be anyway, but still...) so fake metrics are actively worse than no metrics at all.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:48 PM (PYAXX)

10 Not the hill to die on, you guys.

Now where's my bottle... *hic*

Posted by: John Boehner at March 31, 2014 12:48 PM (08jH8)

11 The clusterfuck continues apace.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 31, 2014 12:48 PM (NpXoL)

12 All of the humps on Medicaid should be able to support the uninsured.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (bitz6)

13 I'm a seriously conservative Republican who didn't vote for da Zero and I have to admit, Zerocare sucks just as bad as I thought it would.

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (xWW96)

14 Oh please.  The system works.  I just love paying 120% more, not being able to afford to insure my entire family and paying higher deductibles!  We are a prime example of the glory of Obamacare!

Posted by: DangerGirl at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (GrtrJ)

15 We will cover the 40 Million people uninsured! Our goal is 7 million! We'll settle for less...

Posted by: Democraps at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (IXrOn)

16 Looking at the numbers, more people had insurance prior to Obama's election then now.

So we are paying more for less, and the nominal goal of the program has failed.



It's the Annenberg Challenge all over again, but this time it's with your money.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (8ZskC)

17 So if you don't have insurance you have to do what?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2014 12:49 PM (slXFW)

18 All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured.

... in my ass.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (VG9IS)

19 6 million is greater than 4 million.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (bitz6)

20 With apologies to the Mickey Mouse club... C-l-u/ S-t-e/ r-f-u-c-k! Clusterf*ck! Clusterf*ck! We don't even need a reason why! (SCOAMT! SCOAMT! SCOAMT!)...

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (PYAXX)

21 There's probably a funny skit in here somewhere.

Posted by: SNL at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (8ZskC)

22 Not "all this". There's a lot more to come. All of it, of course, will be "unexpected".

Posted by: ejo at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (GXvSO)

23 It's Potemkin Math all the way down.

Actually, I'm afraid to go on Facebook today. My lefty friends will be parroting this bullshit ad nauseum and I will be unable to restrain myself. To be fair, I wouldn't mind pruning my "friend" list a bit.

Posted by: physics geek at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (MT22W)

24 I was told there be no math on this blog.

Posted by: dantesed at March 31, 2014 12:50 PM (88xKn)

25 You want: 40 million enrolled You'll take: 7 million enrolled You get: [mumblemumblemumble]

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (PYAXX)

26 I'm a Rhodes scholar

Posted by: Ronan at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (bAXJL)

27

The numbers we hear of "policies cancelled" doesn't represent how many people were affected.

 

One policy usually covers more than 'one person'.

 

And we never hear about the Number of people whose policies were "replaced by an Ocare-compliant policy"...with higher premiums. 

This number would be huge!

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (m7/Sn)

28

T9 answered you on previous thread.

 

Leaving for the day, though dude.

Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (3ZtZW)

29 All of this sh*t is going to fall in the Republicans lap. All the dates are being pushed out way beyond elections. What does TFG care? He'll be gone.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (IXrOn)

30 Fortunately the Age of Math is over.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (bitz6)

31 "[O]f the people who have paid their first monthÂ’s premium on the Obamacare exchanges, and are thereby enrolled in coverage"

How did the RAND analysts even determine who these people were who had paid up? The Obama crew have been absolutely paranoiac about guarding the numbers on actual paid enrollment. (Which of course implies that the numbers are shitty.)

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (noWW6)

32 I was told there wouldn't be any math on this usually well informed military blog.

Posted by: The illnumerate Smythe at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (WxKoD)

33 >>All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured.<<

May they all choke on hospital food. Every last Democrat that foist this upon us and destroyed the lives of millions.

I can't wait until November you fuckers.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (GGCsk)

34 I hope the dimwits follow Pelosi's lead and run on the unicorn fart wonders of obamacare.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at March 31, 2014 12:51 PM (hpgw1)

35 And we never hear about the Number of people whose policies were "replaced by an Ocare-compliant policy"

Or tossed into the shit pile of Medicaid.

Posted by: physics geek at March 31, 2014 12:52 PM (MT22W)

36 "All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured..."  and for data mining on all voters, especially the LIVs and FSAs.

Posted by: PJ at March 31, 2014 12:52 PM (ZWaLo)

37 Bin Laden is dead, Frances Fox Piven is alive.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at March 31, 2014 12:52 PM (qyfb5)

38 As a devout liberal and Naturist, I find it comical that you knuckle draggers can even form sentences.

 

Posted by: Veronica J. Lipshitz at March 31, 2014 12:52 PM (NpXoL)

39 Don't worry. You won't suffer for long.

Posted by: A Message from the Obamacare Death Panels at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (8ZskC)

40 Semi-related... I was informed by my lib brother that Hobby Lobby is "hypocritical" because they *used* to provide abortiofacients through their insurance, and they're ONLY not doing it now to stick their thumbs in TFG's eye. Syria, you guys.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (PYAXX)

41 Pre Obamacare: 45 million uninsured (using the MSM numbers)
Post Obamacare: 44 million uninsured (that's 45-1 for those of you who recently graduated from a public high school)

Cost of Obamacare: $2T

So we spent $2T to insure 1 million people.

Fucking awesome!!

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (0LHZx)

42 Shit, missed it by sixty seconds.

Posted by: The illnumerate Smythe at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (WxKoD)

43 I wonder if on Obama's math tests when he was in grade school if he got an "A" when he answered: 2 + 2 = present

Posted by: Ashley JuddsPuffy Lil Scamper, aka MrCaniac at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (HxSXm)

44 Fortunately the Age of Math is over. Go ahead and let them think thatÂ… weÂ’re hungry. And thirsty.

Posted by: Copybook Gods at March 31, 2014 12:53 PM (WX3R9)

45 Ignorance is strength comrade.

Posted by: Kathleen Sebelius at March 31, 2014 12:54 PM (Aif/5)

46 They actually think that the 3 million new "children" (26 and under) who are forced to be on their parents' plans is "progress."  

When I was 25 or so, I had a basic, catastrophic policy in case I got shot, or in a car crash, or ass cancer or something. 

It cost me $14 per month.  I remember because it was the early days of auto-debit, and the amount was so small, they had to charge me for it quarterly (still less than $45 per quarter). 

What do you think the going rate for adding a 25 year-old onto an individual policy is now?  I suspect it's more than $14.

And that was the mid-90s.  I'm old but not that old. 

Posted by: Phinn at March 31, 2014 12:54 PM (i5GO4)

47 Not to gloat, but Nats 9, Mets 5, bottom of the 10th.

Posted by: Chaos the other dark meat at March 31, 2014 12:54 PM (oDCMR)

48

Anyone want to help me with my brackets?  Right now I have:

 

"And this will save the average family $2,500 a year in premiums"

 

vs.

 

"You can not redraw international boundaries with military force"

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 31, 2014 12:55 PM (JtwS4)

49 1 million out of 45 is 2%

We reduced the number of uninsured by 2%, all at a cost of $2 trillion.

You know what would have been cheaper? Sending every one of those 1 million people a check for $10K per year for the rest of their lives to buy insurance.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 12:55 PM (0LHZx)

50 You write that all we've accomplished is insuring a veery small group of people. Of course we have only insured a small group, but it isn't by any means all we've accomplished. You forget that we've forced the collectivization of doctors whopreviousl were independent business people, we've gathered the legislative function into the executive branch, we've overturned the rule of law, we've eviscerated the constitution and the bill of rights and we've completely pawned the American public. Does that really seem "small" to you?

Posted by: Barack Obama at March 31, 2014 12:55 PM (H24g2)

51 Sounds to me like it's working exactly the way they want it to.

Posted by: tu3031 at March 31, 2014 12:55 PM (yv+63)

52 Did I accidentally cancel my comment? I have never felt such pure hatred for a human Being as I do for the SCOAMF!

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2014 12:55 PM (qNzkX)

53 Just......Fuck you, peasants.

Posted by: Baroke Owebama at March 31, 2014 12:56 PM (xmcEQ)

54 Let's review

2009 Population ~ 305 million
Uninsured ~ 44 million
Illegals among uninsured ~ 11 million
American uninsured ~ 33 million ~ 11%

Net Obamacare signups ~ 1 million ~ 3% of problem or 0.3% of 2009 population

That's what I call 'smart power'


Posted by: phreshone at March 31, 2014 12:56 PM (kFxpe)

55 None of this matters. The idiot public voted for Obama TWICE. They voted Allen West out and Alan Grayson in! Who cares if "we" GOP win in 2014? It wont repeal this shit.

Posted by: Dan at March 31, 2014 12:56 PM (COpZ4)

56 And how many people had insurance, lost it due to Obamacare, and are now currently uninsured because Obamacare was too expensive?

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (hFL/3)

57 Less Than One-Quarter of Obamacare Enrollees Were Previously Uninsured; Three Quarters Were People Thrown Off Their Existing Insurance —Ace But at least they meant well by which I mean they didn't mean well at all.

Posted by: eleven at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (GXZgZ)

58

The purpose of Ocare was to take over Control of people's lives.

 

Once you realize that...it all makes sense.

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (m7/Sn)

59 I didn't know this, but it seems the House of Representatives really does have the power to order imprisonment of someone: http://washex.am/1kkbwip Calling Lois Lerner and all Asshole Attorney Generals. Please report to the capital. And bring your jammies.

Posted by: MTF at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (H24g2)

60 All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured. Of course - it's the fucking government, for heaven's sake. There's no sensibility there, and neither is there any evaluation as to whether the attempt to achieve some dubious goal will end up creating an even bigger problem.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (vd7A8)

61 We just weren't ready for his genius........

Posted by: Time at March 31, 2014 12:57 PM (Aif/5)

62 If we merely threw out all the illegal immigrants that would cut the uninsured by 11 million ish.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 12:58 PM (bitz6)

63 I think it's wrong to presume that the people who have now signed up that were previously uninsured are going to continue to make payments as teh year progresses. These are largely people who see medical professionals irregularly, if ever, and they will become dismayed each month (or quarter) cutting a check to an insurance company for services they don't need.

The above doesn't count for the previously uninsured because of pre-existing conditions, they're gonna use the hell out of their new subsidized insurance.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 12:58 PM (CLfqv)

64 From my understanding, as of about, today I think, Obamacare is now too big to fail. Shows over folks, go back to your homes. All is well.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 31, 2014 12:58 PM (HLprW)

65 The needs of the few (hundred thousands), outweigh the needs of the many (millions).

Posted by: Mr. Spock at March 31, 2014 12:58 PM (08jH8)

66

51 Sounds to me like it's working exactly the way they want it to.

 

Yep. 

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 12:58 PM (m7/Sn)

67

Creating government dependency is not progress — it’s a step backward.

 

 

-------

 

 

That depends upon your perspective.  If you are a conservative, yes, but if you are a liberal, no.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2014 12:59 PM (eoeps)

68 Aren't there 1 million illegals crossing the border per year, now? Cali DMV, with a side of obamacare registration.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (IXrOn)

69 >> How did the RAND analysts even determine who these people were who had paid up? The Obama crew have been absolutely paranoiac about guarding the numbers on actual paid enrollment. (Which of course implies that the numbers are shitty.)
 
Because quite a few states have been releasing that information. Non-payment rates have been ranging from 15% to 40% from the states that have reported the numbers.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (wNF3N)

70 I am one of those. Obama killed my old insurance, bought on the individual market. My new insurance has 2x the premium and 2x the deductible. Also I have to pay more to see a specialist under my new plan than my old plan. Both plans are from the exact same insurer, btw. I estimate I will probably spend $5k more this year on my healthcare than last year. I don't have $5k extra to spend. As we speak I am trying to find a cheaper place to live, an extra part-time job, and am looking into the penalties I'll face if I cash out my 401k. I'm pretty much fooked. Honestly not sure what I'm gonna do to solve this. I was, sadly, just keeping my head above water the past couple years. Obama has put his foot on my head and now I'm a couple feet below water and thrashing and Obama's looking down and annoyed I'm not more grateful for his help. Basically, I've been holding onto the semblance of a middle-class lifestyle and that will now be impossible going forward unless I figure out a way to boost my income and soon. Necessity is the mother of invention. And I damn sure have the necessity now.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (ZPrif)

71 Can you imagine the carbon footprint that 11 million illegal immigrants have? Deport them for Gaia's sake.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (bitz6)

72 The stated goal of Obamacare was not to move millions of privately insured Americans into taxpayer-subsidized health coverage. The goal was to cover the uninsured. That was the justification for all the chaos and disruption Americans have experienced — and that is the standard by which the administration should be judged. But the unstated goal of ObamaCide is to destroy the best medical care system on Earth, a goal they've achieved. One wonders, where will folks like Raul Castro and other dictators go for their medical care now that TFG has worked his Reverse Midas Touch?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (0HooB)

73 " are going to continue to make payments as teh year progresses. These are largely people who see medical professionals irregularly, if ever, and they will become dismayed each month (or quarter) cutting a check to an insurance company for services they don't need. " Aren't the payments all set up as automated debits?

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (hFL/3)

74 We had to kill your health care (*SPiTTooee* ) to save it...
(stares off into distance )

Posted by: LTC Bucky O'bama [/i][/b] at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (VG9IS)

75 Now the spin of "Too Big to Repeal" begins.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (9221z)

76 38 As a devout liberal and Naturist,
Posted by: Veronica J. Lipshitz at March 31, 2014 04:52 PM (NpXoL)
Does that mean you are nekkid?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 31, 2014 01:00 PM (/Nxsb)

77 "I pay 15 cents for my insurance!”



Posted by: Shukriyyah at March 31, 2014 01:01 PM (2LJqa)

78 "Actually, I'm afraid to go on Facebook today. My lefty friends will be parroting this bullshit ad nauseum and I will be unable to restrain myself. To be fair, I wouldn't mind pruning my 'friend' list a bit."

Of course, you could prune that list to zero.

If enough people have enough, and bail out of Fuckwitbook for good, the stock price will collapse. And if the stock price collapses, there will be pleasant second-order effects.

Zuckerberg will suddenly have his hands full dealing with angry shareholders instead of funding bullshit Astroturf pro-amnesty ads labeled as the "conservative direction". Sandberg will have to worry more about keeping her job than about her #BanBossy nonsense.

Because really, all this crap is funded by Facebook money. Helping choke off the flow of that money should be a duty.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2014 01:01 PM (noWW6)

79 But it was too important to wait. Or to read.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 01:01 PM (gOoFi)

80 'Come on you sonsofbitches! Do you want to live forever?'
I think it was Dan Daley. Or maybe Smedley Butler

Posted by: Erowmero at March 31, 2014 01:01 PM (1gcFZ)

81 The Rand Corporation is racist funded by BIG OIL the Kochs!!

Posted by: Typical Liberal at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (HLprW)

82 Posted by: Shukriyyah at March 31, 2014 05:01 PM (2LJqa) Barrel.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (PYAXX)

83 ...but it seems the House of Representatives really does have the power to order imprisonment of someone: The question is, does the "leadership" have the balls to exercise that power? Recent history gives plenty of reason for doubt.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (vd7A8)

84 46 They actually think that the 3 million new "children" (26 and under) who are forced to be on their parents' plans is "progress." When I was 25 or so, I had a basic, catastrophic policy in case I got shot, or in a car crash, or ass cancer or something. It cost me $14 per month. I remember because it was the early days of auto-debit, and the amount was so small, they had to charge me for it quarterly (still less than $45 per quarter). What do you think the going rate for adding a 25 year-old onto an individual policy is now? I suspect it's more than $14. And that was the mid-90s. I'm old but not that old. Posted by: Phinn at March 31, 2014 04:54 PM (i5GO4) 10 years ago in my late 30's I was paying $150 a month for health insurance. 5K deductable, but it paid for "wellness". 3 years ago it jumped to $500 per month. I got on my wife's work plan at that point.

Posted by: Ashley JuddsPuffy Lil Scamper, aka MrCaniac at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (HxSXm)

85
GIT IN MAH BELLY !! ! ! ! !

Posted by: The Barrel at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (nELVU)

86 Ace, don't fall for the 'one million' more trick. The individual healthcare market is notorious for being very fluid- perhaps one million got healthcare who didn't have it previously at the time of the study, but the number who had no healthcare in the previous year and now have it is probably considerably lower than that. For a program that has raised healthcare costs, lowered healthcare services, and resulted in millions losing their doctors and plans, all to provide maybe 500K people with healthcare- that is an epic failure.

Posted by: A Conservative Teacher at March 31, 2014 01:02 PM (idosS)

87 4 The jokes on us. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 04:45 PM (IXrOn) It is. I find it strangely unfunny.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 31, 2014 01:03 PM (5ysUC)

88 I ain't goin' in no stinkin' barrel.

Posted by: Shukriyyah at March 31, 2014 01:03 PM (2LJqa)

89 Now the spin of "Too Big to Repeal" begins.

Posted by: Iblis at March 31, 2014 05:00 PM (9221z)


Prohibition was too big to repeal, right? So screw that. I eagerly await a GOP House, Senate and President repealing this turn on a party line vote on 1/20/2017.

Wait, who are the GOP leaders in the House and Senate? Never mind.

Posted by: physics geek at March 31, 2014 01:03 PM (MT22W)

90 63 I think it's wrong to presume that the people who have now signed up that were previously uninsured are going to continue to make payments as teh year progresses. These are largely people who see medical professionals irregularly, if ever, and they will become dismayed each month (or quarter) cutting a check to an insurance company for services they don't need.

The above doesn't count for the previously uninsured because of pre-existing conditions, they're gonna use the hell out of their new subsidized insurance.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 04:58 PM (CLfqv)


___________


While I loathe Obamacare, I hate this lie of thinking as well. This is what insurance is...you pay a premium and usually you don't get back the same amount as a benefit. If you did, insurance companies would all go bankrupt.


It just bugs me when I hear this argument about health insurance...it's a rip-off because you pay for in premiums than you get in services. Well no shit. It's no different than car insurance or home insurance or life insurance.


Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:03 PM (0LHZx)

91 88 4 The jokes on us.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 04:45 PM (IXrOn)

It is. I find it strangely unfunny.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 31, 2014 05:03 PM (5ysUC)

 

Oh shit, not another flame war about what constitutes comedy.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 31, 2014 01:04 PM (DrWcr)

92 That was intention, to make us more dependent on government while we want less government.

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2014 01:04 PM (Z9BWx)

93 Three Quarters Were People Thrown Off Their Existing Insurance Ah! So they were uninsured at the time they signed up.

Posted by: The MFM at March 31, 2014 01:04 PM (zoehZ)

94 I smell Progress!

It's a big eff'n deal!

Posted by: Joe at March 31, 2014 01:04 PM (Z7PrM)

95 I think it's wrong to presume that the people who have now signed up that were previously uninsured are going to continue to make payments as teh year progresses. These are largely people who see medical professionals irregularly, if ever, and they will become dismayed each month (or quarter) cutting a check to an insurance company for services they don't need. The above doesn't count for the previously uninsured because of pre-existing conditions, they're gonna use the hell out of their new subsidized insurance. Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 04:58 PM (CLfqv) Agree, and I think it's more than that. 1) They'll eventually find out they cannot go to the hospital or doctor of their choice. 2) They'll eventually find out they didn't need to sign up because they are under 26 and could have been on their parents - I have this guy feeling way too many still do not know this. 3) They'll eventually find out they can find cheaper or better plans. 4) They'll eventually find out the paperwork of keeping up with obamacare isn't worth the headache. 5) They'll eventually find out it's cheaper to NOT sign up right away. 6) They'll eventually find out - whatever it is we don't even know yet. The law is a minefield of future explosions.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:04 PM (IXrOn)

96 "So they were uninsured at the time they signed up." Technically yes, I suppose.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 01:05 PM (gOoFi)

97
Aren't the payments all set up as automated debits?


I don't know, are they?

Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 01:05 PM (CLfqv)

98 If we merely threw out all the illegal immigrants that would cut the uninsured by 11 million ish.

I don't believe that number.  At all.  They've been saying 11 million forever.  My wild guess is 35 million.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:05 PM (44jNh)

99

Can the house of Representatives order the arrest of Holder?  I thought that Holder would have to enforce the arrest of Lerner as well?

Posted by: Cheri at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (G+Wff)

100 Basically, I've been holding onto the semblance of a middle-class lifestyle and that will now be impossible
***
And that is the unstated goal of all of Obamanomics. Too many middle class people consuming too much for the left's tastes.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (78TbK)

101 While I loathe Obamacare, I hate this lie of thinking as well. This is what insurance is...you pay a premium and usually you don't get back the same amount as a benefit. If you did, insurance companies would all go bankrupt. It's not a "lie of thinking" at all. First off, it's not "insurance" in any meaningful sense. It's a pre-payment plan. And a bad one at that. Second, it's pretty well documented that a fairly large portion of the uninsured chose not to have insurance. They could have had it, but did not carry any. Why would you expect that behavior to change- especially when you've added guaranteed issue, no pre-existing restrictions, and the penalty tax fee penalty is so low in comparison?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (PYAXX)

102 95 I smell Progress!


That's not progress you're smelling.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (slXFW)

103 I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (CLfqv)

104 This is so unexpected!

Posted by: Adriane... at March 31, 2014 01:06 PM (qoKTg)

105

Retailers across the country are already feeling the bite of Ocare.

 

It's taking million$ out of people's pockets.

People now have less to spend...because they're paying so much more for their premiums.

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 01:07 PM (m7/Sn)

106 Oh Don't Worry - in 2015 we will see tens of millions losing insurance and small business will be in an upheavalÂ…Â….. The democrats will have ObamaCare hung around their necks for 2016 also. I will predict that we will see Democrats calling for the repeal of ObamaCare and Obama's resignation around the fall of 2015.

Posted by: redguy at March 31, 2014 01:07 PM (d8wEw)

107 "Aren't the payments all set up as automated debits? I don't know, are they? " I think so, only because a lot of people tried to cancel their policy but the premiums kept coming out of their bank accounts anyway.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:07 PM (hFL/3)

108 good way of redistributing the wealth from makers to takers.

Posted by: Avi at March 31, 2014 01:07 PM (p/izY)

109 It's all cool. Tsunami. November.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Lesbian Outreach Coordinator at March 31, 2014 01:08 PM (roFmD)

110 5 Okay, now how many people had insurance, and don't anymore? I had it. I had to sign up through ObamaCare and it was a clusterfuck. And I still don't know if my medication will be covered. The insurance company (BCBS) had paid for it for ten years on my old policy. Now with the ObamaCare BCBS they are balking. SIgns of things to come.

Posted by: redguy at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (d8wEw)

111

All previously uninsured Obamacare enrollees walk into a bar. 

 

The bartender says, " What can I get you and your friend to drink?"

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (m2CN7)

112 Bret Baier ‏@BretBaier Breaking: Ways & Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-MI) announces he will not seek re-election to House of Representatives. #fnpolitics

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (ZPrif)

113 It's all cool.

Tsunami. November.
___
That's right, and then we can get Amnesty done!

Posted by: John Boehner at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (78TbK)

114 I checked out the website, it was too busy to help me, or anyone.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (slXFW)

115 So basically the same people who have been paying for their health are still paying for their health. All of those "uninsured" want FREE care. They just don't get it. Hence, the carts filled with stranded "chosen" plans.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:09 PM (IXrOn)

116 Tsunami. November.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Lesbian Outreach Coordinator at March 31, 2014 05:08 PM (roFmD)


----



An you new fuckers better get in line with the priorities.  We've got things to fix.... like our broken immigration system.

Posted by: John Bohner at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (nELVU)

117 108 "Aren't the payments all set up as automated debits? I don't know, are they? " I think so, only because a lot of people tried to cancel their policy but the premiums kept coming out of their bank accounts anyway. Mine are not - no way I was going to do that. I send in a check every month.

Posted by: redguy at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (d8wEw)

118
It just bugs me when I hear this argument about health insurance...it's a rip-off because you pay for in premiums than you get in services. Well no shit. It's no different than car insurance or home insurance or life insurance.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo
...............
I'm not sure that's what he was saying..

But I think what is important to remember here, is that the most obvious benefactors of Obamacare are the ones most likely to have signed up.  The chronically ill, the low wage earner and the underinsured.

Many of these people WILL use the hell out of O'Care and get a lot more in benefits than pay in in.  So, unless healthy people opf all ages sign up, the individual insurance market is fucked within a year or two.

It remains to be seen what will happen to employer provided insurance.  It looks like premiums will be going up, partly due to the above individual market losses.

Posted by: Joe at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (Z7PrM)

119 This seems to match with what Lou Dobbs said on FNC a couple of weeks ago, that just over 1M of the enrollees were new policies. The gal on FNC asked him how he came to such a number and he said that he had conducted his own research which included interviewing the execs at the insurance companies.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (DmNpO)

120 No automatic payments unless you set that up individually with your insurance carrier. It's all a matter of choice. They'll take regular checks, online bill pay, automated debit - same as any other billing system. Which is why I think the number of drop-offs will be huge.

I'm not sure what the procedure is if you're paying 15 cents a month, though.

Posted by: jeannebodine at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (2LJqa)

121

73: Lauren " are going to continue to make payments as teh year progresses. These are largely people who see medical professionals irregularly, if ever, and they will become dismayed each month (or quarter) cutting a check to an insurance company for services they don't need. "

Aren't the payments all set up as automated debits?

==========

A quick change of bank account (or bank) solves that problem nicely.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (bbivj)

122 Solid B+.

Posted by: Barack Obama at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (Kkt/i)

123 Retailers across the country are already feeling the bite of Ocare.

Good, Americans are too engrossed in their empty, meaningless, consumer-driven lives!

--25 year old leftists who give 0.0% of their income to charity.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (J79eW)

124 I think so, only because a lot of people tried to cancel their policy but the premiums kept coming out of their bank accounts anyway.

Although if it's mandatory to make debit payments, that means one would have to have a checking account, which means they would have to have photo ID to participate and that would make Obamacare racist.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (CLfqv)

125 I'll repeat what I said earlier: 2 predictions: 1) Penalty (Tax) will be waived by fiat. (It's basically been already via loophole but they'll just make it certain. 2) Subsidy recapture next year will also be "waived" because racist or something.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (a8eFL)

126 OVomit will never resign or be impeached. His taint on the dummycrat party will leave a mark though. He has set back race relations in this country 100 years and ruined the D(ummy) brand for 2 generations. The people OVomit is hurting the most is the 18 - 29 demographic. They are fucked beyond words and they know why too.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (32Ze2)

127

Pretty simple.  The Democrats screamed that we had to pass this bill now because people were dying without insurance.  Hurry!!!!!

 

 

Now they keep passing new deadline delays as they are not only currupt twats but  incompetent twats as well. 

Posted by: Cheri at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (G+Wff)

128 It's all cool. Tsunami. November. ___ That's right, and then we can get Amnesty done! Posted by: John Boehner at March 31, 2014 05:09 PM (78TbK) haha

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:10 PM (IXrOn)

129 damn sock.. off!

Posted by: Chi-town Jerry at March 31, 2014 01:11 PM (Z7PrM)

130 Apparently they could have hired the Rand Corporation to process the applications.

Posted by: Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce at March 31, 2014 01:11 PM (5xmd7)

131 “Son spending time with his dad who died in Afghanistan.” Link in nic.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 31, 2014 01:11 PM (WX3R9)

132 The worst part about this present 0-care shit the asshole 'rat party and MFM stuck to the US is that the worst is yet to come.  Eleventy!1! worse yet, this statist dungheep is generational in its pain and costs.  How many pre-med students are now saying, "...uh, on second thought, engineering looks interesting"?   Fucking, motherfucking motherfuckers. Damn them all. 

Posted by: eureka! at March 31, 2014 01:12 PM (OTg7I)

133 I'll repeat what I said earlier: 2 predictions: 1) Penalty (Tax) will be waived by fiat. (It's basically been already via loophole but they'll just make it certain. 2) Subsidy recapture next year will also be "waived" because racist or something. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 05:10 PM (a8eFL) Which leave the taxpayers paying off the insurance companies who went to bed with these clowns.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:12 PM (IXrOn)

134 A quick change of bank account (or bank) solves that problem nicely.

Yeah, I can see doing this to the IRS, totally.  No repercussions at all.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:12 PM (J79eW)

135 And the sadder thing is that it will get worse, much worse. Sorry for the doom I don't see it ever getting fixed let alone repealed.

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 31, 2014 01:12 PM (HVff2)

136 AMNESTY NOW!

Posted by: GOPe at March 31, 2014 01:12 PM (Kkt/i)

137 The Republican's could manage this much better with a few tweaks.

Posted by: Thoroughly Disgusted at March 31, 2014 01:13 PM (Cs2tJ)

138 Free contraceptives for lawyers! Yay!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at March 31, 2014 01:13 PM (yFb77)

139 25 You want: 40 million enrolled
You'll take: 7 million enrolled
You get: [mumblemumblemumble]

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 04:51 PM (PYAXX)


I'm pretty sure the goal of common core is that future generations will look at those two numbers and NOT see the stark difference between the two. So screwed, are the kids.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2014 01:14 PM (BF+2f)

140 As a devout liberal and Naturist, I find it comical that you knuckle draggers can even form sentences.


Posted by: Veronica J. Lipshitz at March 31, 2014 04:52 PM (NpXoL)



If you get shit on your lipz, you're doing it wrong. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 31, 2014 01:14 PM (NvjVR)

141 All this, for one million sign-ups of the previously uninsured so Liberals/Progressives/Democrats can feel good about themselves when they go to bed at night.

FIFY ace.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at March 31, 2014 01:14 PM (DQZLr)

142 How many pre-med students are now saying, "...uh, on second thought, engineering looks interesting"? Fucking, motherfucking motherfuckers. Damn them all. Posted by: eureka! at March 31, 2014 05:12 PM (OTg7I) __________________ Well the train need people to run them too!

Posted by: Choo Choo Joey Biden at March 31, 2014 01:14 PM (32Ze2)

143 "Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), chairman of the powerful tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, plans to retire after his current term, he announced Monday."

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at March 31, 2014 01:14 PM (VG9IS)

144 While I loathe Obamacare, I hate this lie of thinking as well. This is what insurance is...you pay a premium and usually you don't get back the same amount as a benefit. If you did, insurance companies would all go bankrupt.


Actually, that's not correct.  An insurer can (in a properly functioning market) easily pay out as much or MORE in benefits than it takes in as premiums. 

That's how it's supposed to work, actually. 

The insurer makes enough money to cover its administrative costs AND profit by holding onto your money during the float -- the time after you pay it, and before it gets paid back out as a benefit. 

In other words, insurance companies are basically giant investment clubs. 

American Express works (worked) the same way.  They pay out what they take in, charging no interest.  But they generate a large pool of cash in the interim. 

Universities work the same way.  They are basically investment clubs with some classrooms grafted onto the front-of-house side of the operation. 

ObamaCare works by forcing low-risk people to overpay, and by fucking everything else up completely.

It's a totally different business plan, really.

Posted by: Phinn at March 31, 2014 01:15 PM (i5GO4)

145 Wee, wee.

Posted by: Some sad Frenchman at March 31, 2014 01:15 PM (ld2OA)

146 104 I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though. Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 05:06 PM (CLfqv And me in my mid-50s.

Posted by: Misanthopic Humanitarian at March 31, 2014 01:15 PM (HVff2)

147 Refine, not repeal.

Posted by: GOP Cocksuckers at March 31, 2014 01:15 PM (Cs2tJ)

148 Vlad was a piker.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:15 PM (bitz6)

149 Can you imagine the carbon footprint that 11 million illegal immigrants have? Deport them for Gaia's sake.


How can you say such a thing, especially on Cesar Chavez Day???

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 01:16 PM (8ZskC)

150 Which side are YOU on?

Posted by: The National Review at March 31, 2014 01:16 PM (X9npt)

151 "I will predict that we will see Democrats calling for the repeal of ObamaCare and Obama's resignation around the fall of 2015."

Won't happen.

Democrats are stuck with trying to "fix" the mess. Which they will attempt to do, you can be sure. Energetically and repeatedly. Because they have to be seen to be doing something.

But repeal? Or Obama's resignation? Those things are identity-politics tripwires that the Democratic Party absolutely dare not go near, given the immense importance to the party of blacks voting _en bloc_ for Democrats.

It is not possible for Democrats to even quietly whisper about Historic First resigning. It is not possible for them to discuss a repeal of Historic First's signature policy initiative. Because these things would result in a huge snit by AfAm voters, and Democrats really really need those reliable votes.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2014 01:16 PM (noWW6)

152 Ok, so automated debits were optional. Yeah, those payments aren't going to be made.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:16 PM (hFL/3)

153 I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though. Posted by: BuckIV at March 31, 2014 05:06 PM (CLfqv Checks are so expensive now.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:16 PM (IXrOn)

154 "Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), chairman of the powerful tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, plans to retire after his current term, he announced Monday."

Is this because the GOP wouldn't support his tax plan?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (J79eW)

155 I have the administrative experience with government to make this Obamacare thing work. Government's job is to respond when people are hurting.

Posted by: Jeb Bush at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (yFb77)

156 Although if there are 6 million applications, if it took 5 minutes to gather the facts of each application, that's 500,000 man-hours. That's 5,555.55 man-hours per day for each of the 90 days since January 1, 2014, so Rand would have to have had 695 full-time employees working the last 90 days just on reviewing applications, without any analysis. Or they just grabbed a few hundred and "extrapolated" the results.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (5xmd7)

157 Son spending time with his father brought tears to my eyes.   Worst of it is    that now it will all be in vain.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (eoeps)

158

That anything even remotely as baseless, stupid, and destructive as O-care could actually be adopted pretty much confirms that America is no longer serious or intelligent enough, as a country, to function.

 

There never was the slightest "crisis" with uninsured.  The only relevant number was the number of financially-based involuntarily uninsured - a very small fragment of the already very small total uninsured category.   Financially involuntarily uninsured only - exclude illegals, voluntarily uninsured, which make up the vast majority of the uninsured category.

 

A very small gap in the safety net - which could be easily fixed by returning to actual insurance in general instead of a frankenstein of cost-shifting, welfare, mandates, idiotic socio-medical engineering within a context of state-level cartelization, freeing up multiples of the funds needed to simply go out and sing up the very small target population on decent plans.

 

Just "fixing" the "insurance" markets by letting them, once again, actually function as competitive insurance markets would by itself probably be a growth-inducing boost to the economy that would dwarf the impact of the 80s lowered tax-rates.  Probably would be only second to the digitization/internet revolution in the 90s. 

 

THAT is how unserious, economically illiterate, irresponsible, reckless, greedy, and vile (variously, depending on which segment) America has become.

Posted by: non-purist at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (afQnV)

159 We don't really give a shit whether or not they already had insurance.

Posted by: United Identity Thieves of America at March 31, 2014 01:17 PM (wAQA5)

160 I just pay the rent and 2 car fee taxes in checks.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:18 PM (bitz6)

161 Weft Cut Loop, I think I heard that a few says ago. I know who he is or I might be thinking of someone else. It might have been rumor when I read it.

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2014 01:18 PM (Z9BWx)

162 Posted by: Chris_Balsz at March 31, 2014 05:17 PM (5xmd7) Or they used computers.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 01:18 PM (PYAXX)

163

152...Checks are so expensive now.

 

Not if you use a Credit Union.

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 01:19 PM (m7/Sn)

164 41 Pre Obamacare: 45 million uninsured (using the MSM numbers)
Post Obamacare: 44 million uninsured (that's 45-1 for those of you who recently graduated from a public high school)

Cost of Obamacare: $2T

So we spent $2T to insure 1 million people.

Fucking awesome!!

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 04:53 PM (0LHZx)


So each of those people cost $2,000,000 to insure.  We're fucked.

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 01:19 PM (Kkt/i)

165 How many pre-med students are now saying, "...uh, on second thought, engineering looks interesting"? F*****g, motherf*****g motherf*****s. Damn them all.

How many of them are thinking "law school looks interesting"?  Amish Dude hardest hit. 

Seriously, I don't envy today's high performing kids who are trying to figure out just what is a good profession to enter. 

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (4nR9/)

166 I just pay the rent and 2 car fee taxes in checks. Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 05:18 PM (bitz6) If they scaled back the postal service to once a week, I would barely notice. Same here. I might write one check a year now.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (IXrOn)

167 150 "I will predict that we will see Democrats calling for the repeal of ObamaCare and Obama's resignation around the fall of 2015." And Chuck Yeager will break the sound barrier on a pig with a rocket in its ass.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (X9npt)

168 I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though.

When I was in Utah in the late '90s EVERYONE wrote checks.  For things large and small, checks checks checks.  I stood behind a girl in line at the Post Office who wrote a check for a single stamp.  Fast food places had signs up saying Debit Cards weren't accepted, but they took checks.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (J79eW)

169 What are the Medicaid numbers? How many people were dumped into Medicaid whether or not they qualify and whether or not they want it?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (mf5HN)

170 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 05:18 PM (PYAX You expect anyone hanging out at this 1990s tech blog to jump to "computer" as the solution.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (a8eFL)

171 163 Mine are free. Problem is a box lasts me several years.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (bitz6)

172 Thank you, Mrs. Pelosi and President Obama! Now I can pursue my passion without worrying about paying for health insurance.

Posted by: Artist at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (yFb77)

173

Come on people, get covered!

Posted by: United Identity Thieves of America at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (wAQA5)

174 Don't be taken aback when the nurse practitioner putting stitches in your face looks remarkably like your old garbage man.

Posted by: GOP Cocksuckers at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (Cs2tJ)

175 Thank you, Mrs. Pelosi and President Obama! Now I can pursue my passion without worrying about paying for health insurance.

Posted by: Interpretive Dancer at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (yFb77)

176 Obamacare is not the hill to fight on.

Posted by: Mitch The Bitch McConnell at March 31, 2014 01:20 PM (kFxpe)

177 Tsunami. November. Reichstag fire. December Martial Law. January (before the new congress is sworn in)

Posted by: AltonJackson at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (9HP5k)

178 Posted by: pep at March 31, 2014 05:20 PM (4nR9/) Just keep them the hell away from my field .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (a8eFL)

179 Good God. ABC’s Rachael Ray hosted Vice President Joe Biden for a pre-taped interview which aired on Monday March 31 to push people to sign up for ObamaCare before the midnight deadline. Ray began the segment by beaming that Biden had “The most glowing, perfect skin of any person I’ve ever seen” before telling the Vice President “I really want to know what moisturizer you use. I love moisturizers, my husband is a moisturizer as well. Would you tell me what moisturizer you use?”

Posted by: steevy at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (zqvg6)

180 off to the Christian Ministry Plans. not paying shit. that whole ER law? break a bone, heart attack? lop off a limb? Covered. Let the dems pay for it. I'm not dropping a single dime. Full trauma kit, med kits (x4... vehicles). All the 'cillins (amp, amox, peni) in 5 year supply, regimen checklists. yer thinking: "prepper wacko" g'head. good luck. Enjoy your $900/mo payment for... uh.... nothing?

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (x3YFz)

181 Or they used computers.

Computers?  Never heard of them.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (0AKks)

182 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 05:20 PM (a8eFL) Well, I didn't expect ace to get to that conclusion, but I pretty sure the rest of the Horde were up-to-date on technology...

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (PYAXX)

183 Hey, America, my dog gets better healthcare than you! Sign up for Obamacare! Don't forget to watch the NBA and vote Democrat!

Posted by: LeBron James at March 31, 2014 01:21 PM (ZPrif)

184 Son spending time with his father brought tears to my eyes. Worst of it is that now it will all be in vain. Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 31, 2014 05:17 PM (eoeps) ______________________ I agree. Heartbreaking. A military as potent as ours should be able to kill enough people and break enough shit that the other combatants cry for mercy in very short order. That is when it's done right. It puts them in a very bad spot if they have to police the country afterward. Shouldn't be a military's concern.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (32Ze2)

185 How many pre-med students are now saying, "...uh, on second thought, engineering looks interesting"? Fucking, motherfucking motherfuckers. Damn them all. Posted by: eureka! at March 31, 2014 05:12 PM (OTg7I)
There will be special programs to import "health care workers" from third world countries to take up the slack.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (/Nxsb)

186 If this were "ObamaHousing" to solve the homeless problem, we'd have forced people out of the 3 bedroom homes they were happy with and could afford, into HUD apartments with crack dealers in the stairwells paid for by taxpayers.

Posted by: RS at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (YAGV/)

187 Pfft. Like any of you docile old fucks are going to do anything about it except listen to Rush and froth at the mouth. Just pay up and then fucking die.

Posted by: Barack Obama at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (oFCZn)

188

torquewrench, exactly so.  But that gives me an idea.  One often effective electoral strategy is to "suppress" your opposition turn-out (not at the polls, though politics, of course).  One way of doing this is to demoralize them by demonizing/trashing their leaders for alleged failures.  Hang this catastrophe around the Dems' necks, at all levels. 

 

Oh wait - this would require an opposition political party achieving at least an average level of seriousness and competence, and actually wanting to win for a reason, to actually govern differently.

 

Sorry.

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (afQnV)

189 know how much med gear I can buy for $900/month? he who laughs last isn't dead.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (x3YFz)

190

Fools! 

 

They complain now.  Wait until  until the sheeple get hooked on our government crack.   10 years from now nobody will be complaining.  They'll pay their $1000 a month premiums, with $5000 out of pocket deductibles  before any insurance payout , and they'll THANK  us for it! 

 

Yes, we can use the word "sheeple" because we're dead. 

Posted by: Zombies FDR and LBJ at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (TOk1P)

191 ABCÂ’s Rachael Ray hosted Vice President Joe Biden for a pre-taped interview which aired on Monday March 31 Then she died.

Posted by: Ronan Farrow at March 31, 2014 01:22 PM (X9npt)

192 >>I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though. I'm not quite that old, but I write checks for every bill.

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (wRmmY)

193 A comment just melted into the ether, screwing up the numbering.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (bitz6)

194 Obama taketh and Obama giveth.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (9W+0f)

195 Quick, guess which state has the nation's best Hispanic graduation rate?
http://tinyurl.com/lfjauja

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (slXFW)

196 I can't wait until November you fuckers. Posted by: Marcus T at March 31, 2014 04:51 PM (GGCsk) Piker

Posted by: Meolwese Richardson at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (/djtm)

197 Then she died. Posted by: Ronan Farrow at March 31, 2014 05:22 PM (X9npt) Nice callback.

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 01:23 PM (wRmmY)

198 But Obama's not very good at giveth-ing.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:24 PM (9W+0f)

199 But I think what is important to remember here, is that the most obvious benefactors of Obamacare are the ones most likely to have signed up. The chronically ill, the low wage earner and the underinsured.

Many of these people WILL use the hell out of O'Care and get a lot more in benefits than pay in in. So, unless healthy people opf all ages sign up, the individual insurance market is fucked within a year or two.

It remains to be seen what will happen to employer provided insurance. It looks like premiums will be going up, partly due to the above individual market losses.

Posted by: Joe at March 31, 2014 05:10 PM (Z7PrM)


__________


That is true. People who signed up will use the fuck out of it. Not just because they're sick, but because they're deadbeats and pieces of shit humans in general, the type of people  who go to the ER for the sniffles. All that changes now is instead of the hospital eating the cost of the ER visit, the insurance company eats the cost.


In the end the result is the same...everyone else pays more for health care.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:24 PM (0LHZx)

200 And prefers taketh-ing anyway.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:24 PM (9W+0f)

201 191 Not to worry, we'll be coming for your 401's and IRA's by 2015 to pay for this POS. We have a lifestyle to maintain you know? Posted by: GOP Cocksuckers _________________ You didn't build your retirement savings!

Posted by: Forked-Tongue Sqauw Warren at March 31, 2014 01:24 PM (yFb77)

202 Ray began the segment by beaming that Biden had “The most glowing, perfect skin of any person I’ve ever seen”


And hair like a doll's hair.  Growing from little evenly-spaced holes that cover his entire scalp.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 01:25 PM (8ZskC)

203 Democrats are stuck with trying to "fix" the mess. Which they will attempt to do, you can be sure. Energetically and repeatedly. Because they have to be seen to be doing something.

But repeal? Or Obama's resignation? Those things are identity-politics tripwires that the Democratic Party absolutely dare not go near, given the immense importance to the party of blacks voting _en bloc_ for Democrats.

Agree completely.  Possibly excepting Joe Manchin, who is desperately trying to have it both ways.  "Yeah, OCare, sucks, but we should fix it.  Or get rid of it altogether.  What do you want to hear me say?"

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2014 01:25 PM (4nR9/)

204 "I'm not quite that old..."

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 05:23 PM (wRmmY)

Really!

I just sort of guessed you were in your late 70s/early 80s.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:25 PM (QFxY5)

205 *peers out from under desk* AllenG, how dare you get math on the blog.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (mf5HN)

206

Isn't the number of people who had their old policies cancelled 5-6 million?

If only 3 million of those have been able to sign up for O-care, doesn't that make for a shortfall of 2-3 million who USED to have insurance?

Which means that there are still 1-2 million fewer insured than when this started.

All this chaos for 1 million people who previously didn't have insurance and to claim the number is actually 6 million.

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (6n332)

207 There goes another comment.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (bitz6)

208 Hey, America, my dog gets better healthcare than you!

Sign up for Obamacare!

That's not a joke in Canada.  Animal hospitals have great hours, top-notch equipment, and great Doctors.  When you compare Vet Clinics to Canadian Hospitals the Clinics are hands-down better.  They are cleaner, better staffed, have wonderfully welcoming people, have better equipment, etc.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (J79eW)

209 Question: What has Senator Obama accomplished that indicates he would make a good president? He's the only black senator dude!!!

Posted by: Some dumbass in 2008 at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (Aif/5)

210 Well, doesn't the medicaid expansion that subsidizes all the poor, sick people run out after 3 years or so? And then what?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (ZPrif)

211 I don't see how we can move forward if we keep focusing on the negatives.


Yeh...that's the ticket, happy thoughts for all.

*The sun will come out...tomorrow*

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 31, 2014 01:26 PM (si68n)

212 Dependency, infantilization, regulatin', and Statist Anti-Free-Market interventionism have their own value for Bureaucrats, Leftists, and other malefactors.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (9W+0f)

213 That's not a joke in Canada. Animal hospitals have great hours, top-notch equipment, and great Doctors. When you compare Vet Clinics to Canadian Hospitals the Clinics are hands-down better. They are cleaner, better staffed, have wonderfully welcoming people, have better equipment, etc. Posted by: bonhomme And the patients are a helluva lot nicer and more responsible.

Posted by: Furious George at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (yFb77)

214 Sebelius was speechless today!

Posted by: Carol at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (bZKG0)

215 This  Ocare deadline will come and go, the numbers will change daily, and the LIV will never know the difference.

Posted by: Soona at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (NM86I)

216 I agree that O-Care will never be repealed. Just like SS or Medicare or Medicaid or Amtrak or Dept of Education any of the other govt behemoths that everyone agrees is poorly run, inefficient and bad for the country, but nobody ever dares cut.

O-Care will never go away. Now it may be modified here and there. But the general idea that the govt now controls the health insurance market is here to stay. And it sucks.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (0LHZx)

217 176 In other words, insurance companies are basically giant investment clubs check kiting schemes.


Posted by: Ugg Boots at March 31, 2014 05:21 PM (oGrEy)



Well, yeah, sorta.

Only instead of defrauding you at the end of the scheme, they pay their insureds what they are owed, charge the least amount of premiums the market will allow, and the company still operates at a profit, forever. 

And they take the money they "kite," and use it to make profitable investments. 

But that was all the Old Insurance business model.  The New Insurance system is to impose a fat tax on the productive, and use it to pay a giant subsidy to illegals, and use the whole mess as a vote-buying scheme in the interim. 

Posted by: Phinn at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (i5GO4)

218 I just sort of guessed you were in your late 70s/early 80s. Nope. But can you imagine the level of curmudgeony I'll have achieved by then!?

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (wRmmY)

219 209 Unicorns or sea turtles or something ,mate.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:27 PM (bitz6)

220 That's not a joke in LeBron James' America either. My dog really does get better healthcare than you. You should see my vet bills. Sign up for Obamacare! Buy my shoes! Watch the NBA!

Posted by: LeBron James at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (ZPrif)

221 And hair like a doll's hair.

And eyes like a doll's eyes.  Lifeless eyes.  Oh, wait, no.  Barbie is substantially more intelligent than Joe.  Last I checked, she wasn't riding the alabaster pony. 

Posted by: pep at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (4nR9/)

222 209 Well, doesn't the medicaid expansion that subsidizes all the poor, sick people run out after 3 years or so? And then what? 401ks get nationalized.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (X9npt)

223 200 191 Not to worry, we'll be coming for your 401's and IRA's by 2015 to pay for this POS. We have a lifestyle to maintain you know? Posted by: GOP Cocksuckers _________________ You didn't build your retirement savings! Posted by: Forked-Tongue Sqauw Warren at March 31, 2014 05:24 PM (yFb77) 401 is empty. All in hookers and booze. Can't lose.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (x3YFz)

224 I bought a Platinum policy (I'm special) because the Blue Cross rep went over everything with me and that's the only plan that would cover my name brand migraine meds at all or would let me see the specialist I've been  seeing for years.

Getting medication has been a living hell. Almost every rx  (generics included) requires "prior authorization", involving the need for my dr. to fax additional info in to one of Blue Cross' subsidiaries where they delay it for weeks and weeks, telling different lies every time I call. I lost my mother 2 months ago, needed medicine for sleep and my stomach, and was on the phone with these fuckers almost every day (in one case for 4 WEEKS!), crying and begging. They lost the forms, my doctor didn't complete the form, he/she must've sent it to the wrong fax number, their fax machine is backed up with 1000s of faxes (!),  they never got a request for the medication - they made each excuse up on the fly and they differed depending on the day of the week. When I would finally melt down, they would give me a 30-day over-ride which is where I'm operating now on 2 rxs. 

But I've taken some of these meds for years (and they're generic) and I've never had a problem getting them - when my policy cost $300 less a month - but now it's delay after delay. One of my doctors called me last week after we had been waiting for approval for one medication for about 3 weeks to tell me with astonishment that he had received a form that said "this medication does not require prior authorization". This was after he had sent the information into them at least 3 times. He said he has never seen such demented behavior in 30 years of practice and wondered if they were gaslighting us.

THIS is what is coming for everyone. Except for Medicaid, I guess.

Posted by: jeannebodine at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (2LJqa)

225

209 -

 

Read the not-so-fine print.  Your state picks up the tab. 

 

But  hey, until then it's free money..... right? 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (TOk1P)

226 "Then she died. Posted by: Ronan Farrow" This shit is fucking killing me.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (gOoFi)

227 Leftists are conditioning people to believe that Government cock is tasty.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:28 PM (9W+0f)

228 And that the Government should always "help."

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:29 PM (9W+0f)

229 What if your state doesn't participate?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:29 PM (bitz6)

230 Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 05:27 PM (wRmmY)

I was joking....and there is a certain middle-aged curmudgeonliness that is common to...oh....everyone here who is middle-aged.

It's one of the reasons it's so much fun in this lunatic asylum.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:29 PM (QFxY5)

231 And hair like a doll's hair. Growing from little evenly-spaced holes that cover his entire scalp. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 05:25 PM Well played. (Golf clap)

Posted by: AltonJackson at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (9HP5k)

232 217 I just sort of guessed you were in your late 70s/early 80s. Nope. But can you imagine the level of curmudgeony I'll have achieved by then!? Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 05:27 PM (wRmmY) garrett is what, 9 now? Just slightly too old for the Big Wheel.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (x3YFz)

233 I pay all of my bills with signed 8X10 photos. There is a benefit to living to 132. I no longer have that many things I need to pay for. Hookers and Booze.

Posted by: Abe Vigoda at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (32Ze2)

234

192 A comment just melted into the ether, screwing up the numbering.

 

Yeah...that happens.

 

Which is why it's a good idea to copy some of the comment you're replying to, when you're replying to someone.

 

I 'get' why some people just use the comment number when they're replying...it's easier.

But most people don't remember what 'number' their comment was.

 

So it's kind of annoying.

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (m7/Sn)

235 Necessity is the mother of invention. And I damn sure have the necessity now.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 05:00 PM (ZPrif)


I hate to say it . . . .

1. Pay the penalty.

2. Get insurance when you need it to pay for something other than routine care or declare bankruptcy if med bills become overwhelming.

3. Profit!


That is the system they (including the insurers that were bought off with the insurance risk-corridors) designed.  Let them choke on it.

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (Kkt/i)

236 I guess taking a ten percent penalty on 401K is better than getting nothing?

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:30 PM (bitz6)

237 And people have become conditioned to this state of affairs.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:31 PM (9W+0f)

238 I have ONE friend who expected to personally benefit from ObamaCare due to a pre-existing condition that made health insurance unavailable to him. Next time I see him, I want to ask him how it's working out. My other pro-ObamaCare friends expected people OTHER than themselves to benefit. They tend to discount any anecdotes or data that illustrate how big the failure is. (It's interesting to have someone tell you your personal experience is "wrong.")

Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 01:31 PM (Ew9Pv)

239 I missed this on Drudge earlier:

"White House spokesman Jay Carney makes stressed-out epic gaffe: 'Six out of ten people without insurance can get insurance for $100 a day or less'"

These people.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at March 31, 2014 01:31 PM (VG9IS)

240 You only get subsidized for Obamacare if you qualify for Medicaid, right? Which is why the Obamacare subsidies are, for many people, contingent on Medicaid expansion. Without the expansion, if you don't have kids, you don't get an Obamacare subsidy. Doesn't matter how poor you are, it's not income-based. The Medicaid expansion transforms it into an income-based eligibility. Until Obama, Medicaid was mostly for poor women with kids.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:31 PM (ZPrif)

241 228 What if your state doesn't participate? Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 05:29 PM (bitz6) What if YOU don't participate?

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:31 PM (x3YFz)

242

228 -

 

Your state will participate.  That's why it doesn't matter if you have a state exchange or not.  All those new Medicaid recipients. 

 

You'll get the bill. 

 

Or what... you'll drop them?  I would be interested in seeing THAT fine print.  Where states  are financially liable  to maintin on Medicaid rolls, all who  qualify. 

 

It'll be there.  I'm betting on it. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 31, 2014 01:32 PM (TOk1P)

243 But, but the new Wapo poll says we all loves us some obamacare now according to hot air...

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 01:32 PM (9+ccr)

244 (It's interesting to have someone tell you your personal experience is "wrong.") I didn't say you were 'wrong'. I called you a liar.

Posted by: Harry Reid at March 31, 2014 01:32 PM (wRmmY)

245 I hate to say it . . . .
1. Pay the penalty.
2. Get insurance when you need it to pay for something other than routine care or declare bankruptcy if med bills become overwhelming.3. Profit!
That is the system they (including the insurers that were bought off with the insurance risk-corridors) designed. Let them choke on it.

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 05:30 PM (Kkt/i)


___________


Yep. I proposed doing just this to my wife. She freaked out. But a little while later she said, you know that's not a bad idea. Worst case scenario our credit gets fucked. But since we never borrow money anyway, who cares?


I love that woman.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:32 PM (0LHZx)

246 That is true. People who signed up will use the fuck out of it. Not just because they're sick, but because they're deadbeats and pieces of shit humans in general, the type of people who go to the ER for the sniffles. All that changes now is instead of the hospital eating the cost of the ER visit, the insurance company eats the cost. In the end the result is the same...everyone else pays more for health care. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:24 PM (0LHZx) So how does that work? Sure they're getting subsidies on the premiums but the deductibles are still fucking huge. They're still going to have access to x amount of dollars each year just to get the insurance to kick in. Am I missing something here?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 31, 2014 01:32 PM (oFCZn)

247 Until Obama, Medicaid was mostly for poor women with kids.



Obama has succeeded in making poverty accessible to everyone.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 01:33 PM (8ZskC)

248 And the Conservative punditocracy can't seem to be capable of formulating a coherent critique.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:33 PM (9W+0f)

249

Here is the fix.  Make it optional.  Make the government exchanges compete with the private sector.

(Trying not to laugh.)

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at March 31, 2014 01:33 PM (bbivj)

250 "White House spokesman Jay Carney makes stressed-out epic gaffe: 'Six out of ten people without insurance can get insurance for $100 a day or less'"Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 31, 2014 05:31 PM (VG9IS)
Out of the mouths of boobs.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at March 31, 2014 01:33 PM (/Nxsb)

251 "White House spokesman Jay Carney makes stressed-out epic gaffe: 'Six out of ten people without insurance can get insurance for $100 a day or less'" These people. Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 31, 2014 05:31 PM (VG9IS) "sir, there's this brick wall you need to walk face fir.... and there ya go."

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:33 PM (x3YFz)

252 "They're still going to have access to x amount of dollars each year just to get the insurance to kick in. Am I missing something here?" They'll get the bill from the hospital for their deductible amount, but they just won't pay it.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:34 PM (hFL/3)

253 1. Pay the penalty. 2. Get insurance when you need it to pay for something other than routine care or declare bankruptcy if med bills become overwhelming.3. Profit! -- Well, I have a condition which, in any given year, may or may not cause a serious problem. Under the new system insurance does't start immediately when you sign up. There are enrollment periods. If I didn't sign up and got sick in July, I'd be screwed. The next enrollment period doesn't start until Nov 1, I think. it's not true that now you can sign up immediately. You can sign up today to have coverage starting May 1. If you don't have coverage now and just signed up, and get sick in April -- you are fucked. Obamacare won't pay for shit until May 1.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:34 PM (ZPrif)

254

239 -

 

No.  Income qualification for subsidy is  fairly high.  Single people, it's around $40,000, I think.  With each subsequent dependent, it goes up from there, to the point where a family of 4 I think, needs to make over $60,000 or so  before they don't qualify.

 

Don't quote me on those numbers, but it's not too far from that. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 31, 2014 01:34 PM (TOk1P)

255 Obama has succeeded in making poverty accessible to everyone.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 05:33 PM (8ZskC)

heh.....

Oh, fuck.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:34 PM (QFxY5)

256 239 The insurance companies jobbed the subsidies by making worthless policies with $10,000 deductibles. If they made sensible policies they would have costed enough for subsidies.

Posted by: Boss Moss at March 31, 2014 01:34 PM (bitz6)

257 Think about it: I ruined America's healthcare so the Washington Post would write an article about how courageous I was. I have the article framed on my wall. Now pay your tax, bitches.

Posted by: John Roberts at March 31, 2014 01:35 PM (X9npt)

258 But there is good news, my 0-care policy has lower doctor visit co-pays than before.  To make up for the higher monthly premium I only have to visit the doctor 7 times a month.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at March 31, 2014 01:35 PM (L02KD)

259

Darth Randall, exactly.  I'm among the net drop-off in health insurance, after having it my entire life (even in my 20s ..... it was cheap - actually probably was mostly really insurance, not cost-shifting/welfare/nonsense like it has become since then). 

 

Now?  No way am I dropping $900/mo for a bare-bones catastrophic plan.  (was hilarious, just for fun I contacted the major medical group I use - well, very little, thankfully - just before January to see if they would be participating in the new, absurdly expensive plans that were replacing my old one ..... they couldn't even say .... and several folks on the phone, with minimal prompting, made comments about "never having seen anything like this before").

 

So now we're on one of those temporary between-jobs type plans (which I've used in the past). Catastrophic-type coverage (all I have ever wanted), for about the same price as my old "regular" plan cancelled due to Idiot Care.  Wife will head back to the home country if something big comes up.

 

So after an entire life of taking care of my own health insurance - for the last decade, buying it online in about 10 minutes, literally - suffering through the outrageous inflation due to the warping of insurance into just another welfare program BEFORE all of this mess ..... I now will limp along on temporary plans, subject to a penalty from the feds (WTF?  how I'd love to have 5 min. with Roberts on live TV to disassemble his arrogant, clueless, idiotic, cowardly little personality). 

 

And all around me ...... bunnies, little flowers, birds singing, NPR being listened to ..... know hardly anyone with the slightest idea what's happening, nor of course why.  They are all OK, for now.

 

I've never felt this alienated from the people living around me (will not use the word "citizen" for them, they don't match the description).

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 31, 2014 01:35 PM (afQnV)

260 Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at March 31, 2014 05:33 PM (bbivj) Another NC moron. We need a convention.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at March 31, 2014 01:35 PM (LBsRR)

261 Oh, goody. My favorite subject, SCOAMTTcare. You know it was never intended to function as promised. Actual function is lots and lots of deck chairs to amuse ourselves with while the SCOAMTT busies himself elsewhere.

Posted by: Justamom at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (Sptt8)

262 On the other hand, the Leftist punditocracy is very good at what they do. Which is mostly suck cock. But at least they're very good at it.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (9W+0f)

263 Ah, but how much wealth has been transferred thanks to this boondoggle?

And how much power has been amassed with things like the Obamacare Hub and activist organizations now accessing citizens' private information?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (udjuE)

264 247 And the Conservative punditocracy can't seem to be capable of formulating a coherent critique. Run Jeb, run!

Posted by: GOPe geniuses at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (X9npt)

265 1 million net insured? That's a big f*cking deal!

Posted by: Slow Joe at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (8MjqI)

266 Moo Moo, hate to say it, but I agree. You're dead on.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (x3YFz)

267

Insurance Companies are supposed to keep Cash Reserves to cover claims.

 

It's supposed to be a percentage of the premiums they charge.

And...they're supposed to get fined, if they don't do this.

 

But I remember something back in 2010...something about 'reduced reserves'...that was in the Ocare Bill.

It was something that eased this requirement of having such Huge Cash Reserves.

 

Does anyone know if this was actually in the ACA bill that was passed?

 

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 01:36 PM (m7/Sn)

268 How many has Leland Yee insured in a 'special arrangement'? That might account for some of the discrepancies.

Posted by: t-bird at March 31, 2014 01:37 PM (FcR7P)

269 Re: subsidies, I live in PA - they didn't set up an exchange. The policy I had before, purchased despite pre-existing migraines (per the HIPAA law) was $525-$550 per month - great coverage, Blue Cross. Post-Obamacare, same carrier, the cost is just under $900/month and I receive a subsidy of $125/month. (Working part-time, still looking for full time). WIN-WIN, right?

Posted by: jeannebodine at March 31, 2014 01:37 PM (2LJqa)

270 Another NC moron. We need a convention.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at March 31, 2014 05:35 PM (LBsRR)

Can I come?

Posted by: General William Tecumsah Sherman at March 31, 2014 01:37 PM (QFxY5)

271 Hey, the Eagles are up on the Houston Texans 14, 10. Saw it on a crawl.

Posted by: redenzo at March 31, 2014 01:37 PM (WCnJW)

272 Anyway, "Obama is a poopy pants" is an embarrassing critique.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:38 PM (9W+0f)

273 "White House spokesman Jay Carney makes stressed-out epic gaffe: 'Six out of ten people without insurance can get insurance for $100 a day or less'" These people. Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 31, 2014 05:31 PM (VG9IS) That's not a gaffe. Most people can get insurance for less than $100 per day.

Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 01:38 PM (Ew9Pv)

274 So how does that work? Sure they're getting subsidies on the premiums but the deductibles are still fucking huge. They're still going to have access to x amount of dollars each year just to get the insurance to kick in.

Am I missing something here?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 31, 2014 05:32 PM (oFCZn)


_______


Yes you are missing the fact that deductibles are very low and even $0 for "low income" people. And by low income I mean $50K = low income.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:38 PM (0LHZx)

275 "That's not a joke in Canada. Animal hospitals have great hours, top-notch equipment, and great Doctors. When you compare Vet Clinics to Canadian Hospitals the Clinics are hands-down better. They are cleaner, better staffed, have wonderfully welcoming people, have better equipment, etc."

Steven Crowder has a piece wherein he returned to his home country of Canada, and interviewed ordinary Canadians about the health care system which the U.S. media always tell us that Canadians just love.

Suffice it to say that they don't all love Canuckcare when you get to hear them live and unfiltered.

And yes, one woman interviewed by Crowder said that her dog literally does get superior medical care at the veterinary hospital.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2014 01:38 PM (noWW6)

276 Hey, the Eagles are up on the Houston Texans 14, 10. Saw it on a crawl. TIME OUT!

Posted by: Andy Reid at March 31, 2014 01:38 PM (wRmmY)

277 "With each subsequent dependent, it goes up from there, to the point where a family of 4 I think, needs to make over $60,000 or so before they don't qualify." For a family of 6 the limit is over 100K. It doesn't matter though. We qualified for like $150 in subsidies but to get a policy remotely close in coverage to the $500 one we lost, it would cost us over $900/month after the subsidy. Horray?

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:39 PM (hFL/3)

278 I was just going to post a whole bunch of words saying a bunch of worthless shit, so I decided to delete it and pour a glass of wine instead. Cheers.... this shit is depressing.

Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 01:39 PM (10H0T)

279

This is interesting. Do you suppose Zerocare had anything to do with it?

PS: no spiders

http://tinyurl.com/lo7usa4

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2014 01:40 PM (xWW96)

280 It can vary by state, I think. Most of the states that have rejected the Medicaid expansion give zero subsidy to non-disabled adults without kids. Regardless of income. The reason Obama pushed the Medicaid expansion so hard is to transform it into an income based test. In many states it is a test of being disabled or having kids. If you are a non-elderly, non-disabled adult without kids then your income is irrelevant. For states that have expanded Medicaid then subsidies are available to anyone below X income. That's not true for the states that have rejected the Medicaid expansion.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:40 PM (ZPrif)

281 Obama Care has always been about power.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:40 PM (9W+0f)

282
Or what... you'll drop them? I would be interested in seeing THAT fine print. Where states are financially liable to maintin on Medicaid rolls, all who qualify.
It'll be there. I'm betting on it.
Posted by: BurtTC




The theoretical shut off of additional Medicaid funds in the out years is just that -- theoretical.  When the time for the reduction comes, it will be just like the doc fix, flood insurance and every other program.  Dems will scream, Rep will fold.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 31, 2014 01:40 PM (kdS6q)

283 I know that here in Maryland, we are not using the ObamaCare site.
That damn thing crashes more than it's up
Anyhow, as I was saying, here in Maryland,our Lt Governor has been in charge of this wonderful Maryland healthcare website and it's been running smooth as a top with people enrolling,and saving money left and right.

Wait....what?
The Maryland site is a bucket of shit that is so far gone that we need to kiss 124 million dollars away, and start from scratch with borrowed software from another State?

Oh well....
It's just taxpayer money.
We can get more.


*The sun will come up tomorrow*

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 31, 2014 01:41 PM (si68n)

284 bunnies, little flowers, birds singing, NPR being listened to Posted by: non-purist at March 31, 2014 05:35 PM (afQnV) There was a bit on NPR about how Nelson Mandella was awesome and some things about the local LGBT community and some shitty music they created. Some stuff about "community" fascinating stuff. Sure you'd love it. /runs screaming through plate glass window

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:41 PM (x3YFz)

285 Both sides are screaming their spin on the Affordable Care Act and pointing to various number and statistics but the bottom line for me is this - does it help people who have struggled with health coverage in the past?  I've always been a reliable Republican voter and one time Ditto-head whose life just got too busy for worrying about politics.

I knew the ACA would affect me directly since I am self-employed as a CHL instructor and have always had to pay for health coverage out-of-pocket.  Sure enough I get a cancellation notice from my long-time health coverage provider.  Naturally I was pretty steamed.  At the insurance company.  At Washington.  Even at Obama himself for promising I could keep my plan.

Then I start hearing all these horror stories from the Republicans in Congress and on Fox about the Affordable Care Act.  Millions are losing their coverage (like me!), the website is difficult to use, the plans are more expensive, the deductibles are insane.  I was getting angrier by the day.

But in my line of work results are all that matter so I decided to try Affordable Care website.  Lo and behold there were no problems navigating and selecting a plan.  I'm going to be honest, I'm paying $14 a month more for coverage for my family.  But that's with a lower deductible and thanks to the Affordable Care act we no longer have to worry about pre-existing conditions or lifetime limits on coverage.

I'm fortunate enough in life I don't qualify for a subsidy but I can only imagine what a great deal the Affordable Care Act must be for those who aren't as fortunate.

Obamacare turned out to be a great deal for me despite my initial skepticism and anger.  The Affordable Care Act works.  But don't take my or anyone else's word for it.  Go to the ACA website and see for yourself. 

Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 01:41 PM (uhMMS)

286 Hey, the Eagles are up on the Houston Texans 14, 10. Saw it on a crawl.

Was that their per team off-season arrest totals?

Posted by: Blanco Basura at March 31, 2014 01:41 PM (0AKks)

287 About "depowering" the individual and empowering, uh, the already powerful.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:41 PM (9W+0f)

288 And/or influential.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:42 PM (9W+0f)

289 278 I was just going to post a whole bunch of words saying a bunch of worthless shit, so I decided to delete it and pour a glass of wine instead. Cheers.... this shit is depressing. Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 05:39 PM (10H0T) Hey! You guys coming to MoMee again this year?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 31, 2014 01:42 PM (GEICT)

290 In Idaho, someone making up to $90K a year can qualify for tax credits to buy a house. Those tax credits are intended to assist "low and medium" income people buy a home.

This is fucking Idaho, and even there, govt is getting as many people as possible dependent on freebies.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:42 PM (0LHZx)

291 Because "afflicting the afflicted and comforting the comfortable."

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:42 PM (9W+0f)

292 "Yes you are missing the fact that deductibles are very low and even $0 for "low income" people. And by low income I mean $50K = low income." You are wrong. If you have a very low income, and you get a fully subsidized plan, yes you can get a policy with a very low deductible. Otherwise? Hope you like your $200 subsidy to buy that 70/30 plan with a $12,000 family deductible. With subsidy, you're total will be $800. Or, you can take that subsidy and buy a 80/20 plan with a $6000 family deductible. That'll cost $1200/month.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:43 PM (hFL/3)

293 "Was that their per team off-season arrest totals?." No, off season baby-mama births.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 01:43 PM (gOoFi)

294 And it's not just a power transfer. It's also a wealth transfer.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:43 PM (9W+0f)

295 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS)

_______

FUCK YOU!

I am paying $2500 more a year in premium with higher deductibles.

PS: FUCK YOU

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:43 PM (0LHZx)

296 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) **Overly Dramatic Clap**

Posted by: garrett at March 31, 2014 01:43 PM (wRmmY)

297 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM you forgot the part about being a "life-long conservative and NRA member"

Posted by: AltonJackson at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (9HP5k)

298 Always against the Middle Class/bourgeoisie.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (9W+0f)

299 Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 05:42 PM (9W+0f)

Why don't you go to a dead thread and post hundreds of comments.

That way you will see your name in lights on Sunday night, and you won't clog up the grown-up's discussions!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (QFxY5)

300 Hey! You guys coming to MoMee again this year? Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 31, 2014 05:42 PM (GEICT) We're planning on it, giving any unseen circumstances.

Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (10H0T)

301 Because compulsory empathy.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (9W+0f)

302 But again, my understanding is that the Feds are only bankrolling the Medicaid Expansion $$ for 3 years. After which ... I assume the Left will campaign on Republicans kicking poor people off the subsidies. Or they could just bankrupt the states, but I'm guessing the Left's plan is the Feds will just have to keep paying for the Medicaid Expansion forever.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:44 PM (ZPrif)

303 Asked one of our part time employees who is working for HR Block, what his biggest EITC was. He said man was married with 2 kids. Made $30K. Got back $ 11k. $4K withheld and $7K EITC. What you reckon his monthly tab for hospitalization is?

Posted by: Golfman in NC at March 31, 2014 01:45 PM (LBsRR)

304 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) ________________________ Riiiiiiiiiiightttttt.......

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 01:45 PM (32Ze2)

305 We're planning on it, giving any unseen circumstances. Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 05:44 PM (10H0T) Awesome. So, your husband more prepared for the drinking activities of the Morons this year? It was him that got fed drinks all night, right?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 31, 2014 01:45 PM (GEICT)

306 And a refusal to articulate Free Market principles on the part of those Leftism insists on afflicting.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:45 PM (9W+0f)

307 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM you forgot the part about being a "life-long conservative and NRA member" Posted by: AltonJackson at March 31, 2014 05:44 PM (9HP5k) __________________ And Middle Class Conservative Christian

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (32Ze2)

308 "you forgot the part about being a "life-long conservative and NRA member""

I thought the usage of "Staunch" somewhere in the sentence was required as well.

Or, is it merely suggested, but not required?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (si68n)

309

Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS)

How about you get in the corn hole line moby bitch.

Posted by: maddogg at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (xWW96)

310 Hi, I'm Dick Strong. I was coming home from a cross burning when I had an epiphanany and realized I needed to Get Covered. I was worried that I would need to sell one of my assault machine guns to be able to afford it, but Lo and behold I ended up with great coverage. Thanks Obamacare!

Posted by: Dick Strong at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (Aif/5)

311 Otherwise? Hope you like your $200 subsidy to buy that 70/30 plan with a $12,000 family deductible. With subsidy, you're total will be $800.

Or, you can take that subsidy and buy a 80/20 plan with a $6000 family deductible. That'll cost $1200/month.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:43 PM (hFL/3)


_____________


Lauren, see #2
http://tinyurl.com/lyzyfnd

Subsidies cover premium and deductibles.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (0LHZx)

312
Eh, it was never about insurance or health care.  It is about control.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 31, 2014 01:46 PM (0Kobm)

313
Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) Hide posts from (uhMMS)




I find your completely spontaneous and independent story both convincing and persuasive.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 31, 2014 01:47 PM (kdS6q)

314

The reduced cost-sharing subsidy doesnÂ’t actually pay you money. Instead, it saves you money by lowering your cost-sharing expenses. How much money it saves you depends on your income and on how much you use your health insurance.

The poorer you are, the more your cost-sharing is reduced. The amount of this reduction is based on comparing your income to federal poverty level. Federal poverty level changes every year, and is based on both your income and your family size. You can look up the current FPL for different family sizes here.

Without the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company would pay roughly 70 percent of your total covered health care expenses. With the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company will pay:

94 percent of your expenses if your income is 100-150 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $11,490-$17,235.For couples with a 2013 income from $15,510-$23,265. 87 percent of your expenses if your income is 150-200 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $17,235-$22,980.For couples with a 2013 income from$23,265-$31,020. 73 percent of your expenses if your income is 200-250 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $22,980-$28,725.For couples with a 2013 income from $31,020-$38,775.

 

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:47 PM (0LHZx)

315 "And the Conservative punditocracy can't seem to be capable of formulating a coherent critique."

Elevator pitch.

"Obamacare was claimed to be the solution to America's medical insurance crisis. But what America actually had was a medical COST crisis. And Obamacare does nothing to get costs back under control. Even Obama's backers like Warren Buffet now admit this. Obamacare is just a shell game with shifting high medical costs around. A complicated, fussy shell game. What we need instead are real reforms that make health care less administratively complicated, and make it cheaper."

Posted by: torquewrench at March 31, 2014 01:47 PM (noWW6)

316 Leftism's kyrocratic War of the Middle Class/Bourgeoisie cannot be won in kyrocratic terms because the Middle Class is stigmatized to the point where it is not allowed to pursue its collective/personal interests but exists merely to be farmed by the Lower and Higher classes.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:47 PM (9W+0f)

317 How many 'signups' are on Medicaid? And how much more is the rest of America paying for all this?

Posted by: --- at March 31, 2014 01:47 PM (MMC8r)

318 I didn't even read the comment, just the name, and knew you were a troll with jizz running down your lips. Posted by: Ugg Boots at March 31, 2014 05:46 PM (oGrEy) ___________________ Dude. That's harsh....

Posted by: Machines For Sale at March 31, 2014 01:48 PM (32Ze2)

319 Eh, it was never about insurance or health care. It is about control. Ding,ding,ding we have a winner !

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 01:48 PM (9+ccr)

320 It was him that got fed drinks all night, right? Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at March 31, 2014 05:45 PM (GEICT) You know I just don't remember, it's kind of a blur, I sort of remember some cute guys shooting pool towards the end of the night, and Gabe and I were trying to figure out if they were gay or not. I think I also remember we had a nice hotel room, I think....

Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 01:48 PM (10H0T)

321 So for someone making $38K a year, 73% of the expenses are covered. That $5K deductible magically turns into a $1350 deductible. That $30 copay magically turns into a $5 copay.


Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:48 PM (0LHZx)

322 Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 05:48 PM (10H0T)

This might be the definition of "low hanging fruit."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:49 PM (QFxY5)

323 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:46 PM (0LHZx) Eh, I see less of a subsidy and more of regulation on out of pocket max. But maybe that's splitting hairs.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 31, 2014 01:49 PM (a8eFL)

324 "Dude. That's harsh...."

No shit.

Posted by: Pipe fitting for sale at March 31, 2014 01:49 PM (si68n)

325 Mr. Moo Moo, From your link: Without the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company would pay roughly 70 percent of your total covered health care expenses. With the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company will pay: 94 percent of your expenses if your income is 100-150 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $11,490-$17,235. For couples with a 2013 income from $15,510-$23,265. 87 percent of your expenses if your income is 150-200 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $17,235-$22,980. For couples with a 2013 income from$23,265-$31,020. 73 percent of your expenses if your income is 200-250 percent of FPL For individuals with a 2013 income from $22,980-$28,725. For couples with a 2013 income from $31,020-$38,77 So...? That doesn't much help with the middle class deductible issue. At all.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:50 PM (hFL/3)

326 Yep, McAuliffe campaigned on the Medicaid Expansion for Obamacare. Virginia state legislature has blocked it so far. Probably will cave. MATT DRUDGE ‏@DRUDGE If the Republicans are dumb enough to think they can win on Obamacare alone. Two words: Terry McAuliffe...

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:50 PM (ZPrif)

327 Posted by: General William Tecumsah Sherman at March 31, 2014 05:37 PM (QFxY5) Molon labe. It ain't 1865.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at March 31, 2014 01:50 PM (LBsRR)

328 That doesn't much help with the middle class deductible issue. At all.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:50 PM (hFL/3)


______


Maybe we have different definitions of middle class. To me $38K a year is middle class.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:50 PM (0LHZx)

329 "320 Eh, it was never about insurance or health care. It is about control. Ding,ding,ding we have a winner ! Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 05:48 PM (9+ccr)" :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:51 PM (9W+0f)

330 Maybe we have different definitions of middle class. To me $38K a year is middle class. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:50 PM Not in Ca......

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 01:51 PM (9+ccr)

331 Even at Obama himself for promising I could keep my plan. Heavens no! Not our God-King! He loves us all.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2014 01:51 PM (X9npt)

332 O/T

I am in the process of dealing with a committee made up of Ivy League graduates, all of whom are quite successful.

They are fucking retards.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 01:52 PM (QFxY5)

333 Going from a 70/30 plan to a 73/27 plan isn't exactly a game changer for anyone.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:52 PM (hFL/3)

334 But Leftists are always very good at making everything about "altruism." Altruism which always ends up being compulsory and Statist.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:52 PM (9W+0f)

335 *rubs hands together* Muhahahaha

Posted by: Barky O'Genius at March 31, 2014 01:52 PM (9eDbm)

336 if you wanna some cheap lulz, check out Washington Free Beacon's montage of stupid, the Al Sharpton edition.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Lesbian Outreach Coordinator at March 31, 2014 01:53 PM (fWEL6)

337 g'head. good luck. Enjoy your $900/mo payment for... uh.... nothing?

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 05:21 PM (x3YFz)


Good point.  That $ increase every month could go a long way in self meds and instruction.  Save another bit of it in a fund for non-routine diagnostics.

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 01:53 PM (Kkt/i)

338 Will be interesting. For poor people in a non-expansion state living near a border of an expansion state -- huge incentive to move over the border. So VA/MD, TN/KY, TX/NM, WI/MN, VA/WV. Most of the south and much of the plains states have resisted Medicaid expansion. Many people in those states are gonna be pissed when they read about all these subsidies that they don't get. And Democrats will campaign on that.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:53 PM (ZPrif)

339 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) Congratulations on navigating the wickets. But, you're the exception. Understand that it's not just you. Please understand that you're the minority and the rest of the nation is just getting financially pounded. Now, if you want to turtle up and just think "good for me... haha," then it is what it is, but understand there's a lot of good folks out here just being financially crushed. In WWII there were the Vichy French. We're going to view you in the same fashion: as someone selfish who won't say a word against the tyranny. And here on AoS? We'll fucking hammer you.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:54 PM (x3YFz)

340

JEB BUSH in 2016!

 

eleventy!!!

 

/sarc

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at March 31, 2014 01:54 PM (q+zA9)

341 331 Maybe we have different definitions of middle class. To me $38K a year is middle class.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:50 PM

Not in Ca......

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 05:51 PM (9+ccr)


_________

Median income is $61K for the entire state. Which means there are millions of people who earn under $38K. They're not rich by any means, but they're still middle class, even in CA.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:54 PM (0LHZx)

342 212
That's not a joke in Canada. Animal hospitals have great hours, top-notch equipment, and great Doctors. When you compare Vet Clinics to Canadian Hospitals the Clinics are hands-down better. They are cleaner, better staffed, have wonderfully welcoming people, have better equipment, etc.
Posted by: bonhomme  And the patients are a helluva lot nicer and more responsible. Posted by: Furious George at March 31, 2014 05:27 PM (yFb77)


True story, my grandparents were so poor in their early years in this country that they went to the veterinarian to do their teeth, not a licensed dentist. I have a feeling those days might return again for a lot of people, which seems unimaginable...

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (BF+2f)

343 Here's a map of which states of expanded Medicaid http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/resources/primers/medicaidmap 27 have, 21 haven't, 3 are "considering".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (ZPrif)

344 ... so pick.

Posted by: tangonine at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (x3YFz)

345 Obamacare turned out to be a great deal for me despite my initial skepticism and anger. The Affordable Care Act works. But don't take my or anyone else's word for it. Go to the ACA website and see for yourself. Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) Thanks for sharing your experience, Liriope. I am collecting ObamaCare success stories. I have one, so far. (Yours.) Our family premiums more than tripled and are significantly higher than our mortgage. With the subsidy we are entitled to, the cheapest new plan is still significantly more than our old plan. (It's hard to give an exact comparison since my husband went on Medicare last year, but insurance for just me is more than we were paying for two of us before the various laws began to be implemented.) So I dropped insurance and went with a bill-sharing plan. We help pay each other's bills and with the bills distributed like that, $165 per month per person covers our medical needs.

Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (Ew9Pv)

346 Aren't "Bronx cheers" farts, you guys?

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (Iyg03)

347 334 Going from a 70/30 plan to a 73/27 plan isn't exactly a game changer for anyone.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:52 PM (hFL/3)


_________


You don't get it. The 73/27 is 73% of ALL costs. Which means 73% of the deductible as well.


Your 70/30 is after the deductible.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (0LHZx)

348 "Median income is $61K for the entire state. Which means there are millions of people who earn under $38K. They're not rich by any means, but they're still middle class, even in CA. " Uh, what? If the median income is 61K, then those making 38K would be, by definition, not middle class.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:55 PM (hFL/3)

349 Liriope is a very popular ground cover and landscaping choice here in Texas.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at March 31, 2014 01:56 PM (uhMMS)

350 Maybe we have different definitions of middle class. To me $38K a year is middle class.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:50 PM (0LHZx)

 

38k for a family income is middle class?  That's two working adults making less than 10.00/hr.   That's the working poor class.   Its not like they have 27% of a 5000 deductible just laying around. 

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2014 01:56 PM (m2CN7)

351 Of course, a state would benefit if a lot of it's poor moved to a neighboring state for more welfare since a person moving based on welfare is probably not gonna contribute a lot.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:56 PM (ZPrif)

352 Hey moo you're definition and mine about" middle class' differ.....

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 01:56 PM (9+ccr)

353 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS)


Your Obamacare shill tax dollars at work.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 01:57 PM (8ZskC)

354 The Affordable Care Act works. But don't take my or anyone else's word for it. Go to the ACA website and see for yourself. Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) 4 million people who once had insurance and now have much higher priced insurance beg to differ. But hey, you got yours, so good for you.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 01:57 PM (yz6yg)

355 "339 Will be interesting. For poor people in a non-expansion state living near a border of an expansion state -- huge incentive to move over the border. So VA/MD, TN/KY, TX/NM, WI/MN, VA/WV. Most of the south and much of the plains states have resisted Medicaid expansion. Many people in those states are gonna be pissed when they read about all these subsidies that they don't get. And Democrats will campaign on that. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 05:53 PM (ZPrif)" That's also a good incentive to resist Medic Aid expansion.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 01:57 PM (9W+0f)

356 yeah, that was clearly a sock, right? liriope?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 01:57 PM (ZPrif)

357 For the states that set up exchanges and expanded Medicaid eligibility (by bumping the income levels that qualify to get it), the feds are paying 100% of the bumped crowd for 3 years. After that, the fed subsidy drops to 90% and at some forgotten point by me in the future it drops still lower.
 
So the bill to the states doesn't kick in for 4 years or so; perfect giveaway shit for politicos who move on after buying them extra votes and never having to pay the final bill.
 
Not to mention all those sweet new registered voters that OCare are automatically signing up.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 31, 2014 01:57 PM (wNF3N)

358 No matter what a lot of you think, Obamacare is a hell of a good deal for a lot of people. The sweet spot is for people who make OK, but not great money right around the $40K mark. Make more than that, you're too rich. Make below that, you're sent to Medicaid hell.

But make $35-40K....you get a Blue Cross policy that costs $800 with a $10K deductible for $200 with a $2K deductible.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:58 PM (0LHZx)

359 Do the Locomotion In My . . .

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 31, 2014 01:58 PM (XUKZU)

360 "Without the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company would pay roughly 70 percent of your total covered health care expenses. With the cost-sharing subsidy, your health insurance company will pay: X % of your expenses depending on income." That % is 73 for those making over 31K. So you're getting a 3% subsidy. Horray. Those making more than 38K can expect a lump of coal, I assume.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 01:58 PM (hFL/3)

361 But make $35-40K....you get a Blue Cross policy that costs $800 with a $10K deductible for $200 with a $2K deductible. Riiiiight... And you can keep your Doctor too...

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 01:58 PM (9+ccr)

362 Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 05:55 PM (Ew9Pv) ____________________ Tell me more of this "Bill Share" plan. Is it affiliated with a Christian Denomination?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 01:59 PM (32Ze2)

363 If the median income is 61K, then those making 38K would be, by definition, not middle class. Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:55 PM (hFL/3) It's Moo Moo. You were expecting logic and coherence?

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 01:59 PM (yz6yg)

364 38k for a family income is middle class? That's two working adults making less than 10.00/hr. That's the working poor class. Its not like they have 27% of a 5000 deductible just laying around.

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2014 05:56 PM (m2CN7)


______________


Median income is $50K nationally. That 2 working people making $12.50 each. By definition median income is middle class. So if $12.50 is middle class, $10 is as well or pretty damn close to it.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 01:59 PM (0LHZx)

365 I had my doubts at first, but now I find health insurance under the ACA to be affordable and comforting as a toasty warm cup of yummy cocoa.

Also, don't you think Rush Limbaugh is the greatest? I sure do.

Posted by: First Time Commenter at March 31, 2014 01:59 PM (8ZskC)

366

327 Yep, McAuliffe campaigned on the Medicaid Expansion for Obamacare. Virginia state legislature has blocked it so far. Probably will cave.

 

 

MATT DRUDGE þ@DRUDGE
If the Republicans are dumb enough to think they can win on Obamacare alone. Two words: Terry McAuliffe...

 

 

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 05:50 PM (ZPrif) 

 

--------------

 

Well Medicaid is ½ paid for by the State.

So as it expands...then the State's portion expands.

 

How is Virginia going to pay for all that 'expanded Medicare'?

Raise taxes?

 

And...Drudge?

Sometimes I wonder about him. The Virginia governors race had a lot of things going on that don't exist in other states.

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 02:00 PM (m7/Sn)

367

Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS)

Are you that guy in his pajamas with the mug of coco?

 

 

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at March 31, 2014 02:00 PM (q+zA9)

368 The thing I like best about Obamacare is the smooth, chocolatey centers.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 31, 2014 02:00 PM (XUKZU)

369 I just read Liriope Field's comment. I know marketing. If that little sell of his/hers isn't repeated elsewhere, verbatim, I'd be shocked.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2014 02:00 PM (DmNpO)

370 364 If the median income is 61K, then those making 38K would be, by definition, not middle class.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:55 PM (hFL/3)

_________

Middle class is broadly defined as those between the 25th and 75th percentile. If median is $61K, then $38K is most likely above 25th percentile.

Let math be your friend.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 02:01 PM (0LHZx)

371 If we could just get jwest to drop in.

Posted by: Adam at March 31, 2014 02:01 PM (Aif/5)

372 Well I have to say if I lose my health insurance, I will be sol, I have to have expensive tests every year, expensive meds etc... I think if that happens I will just go holistic and that includes fomented grapes of the red variety. In other news my little dog smells like a herd of cats pissed on her and then she rolled in vomit. gag.

Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 02:01 PM (10H0T)

373 I know marketing. If that little sell of his/hers isn't repeated elsewhere, verbatim, I'd be shocked. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2014 06:00 PM (DmNpO) Right down to the "concerned Republican" schtick.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 02:02 PM (yz6yg)

374 Riiiiight... And you can keep your Doctor too...

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at March 31, 2014 05:58 PM (9+ccr)


___________


Sure you do. It's a high end policy (hence the $800) that you get for $200. The benefits don't change because you get a subsidy.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 02:02 PM (0LHZx)

375 Posted by: Adam

Speaketh not the Devil's name, lest ye invoke him!

Posted by: Blanco Basura at March 31, 2014 02:02 PM (0AKks)

376 My Obamabate means I don't have to pay at all!!!

Posted by: Calliope Steam at March 31, 2014 02:02 PM (/Nxsb)

377 I think if that happens I will just go holistic and that includes fomented grapes of the red variety.


PRO TIP: You're only asking for trouble if you foment the grapes.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 02:02 PM (8ZskC)

378

If that little sell of his/hers isn't repeated elsewhere, verbatim, I'd be shocked.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2014 06:00 PM (DmNpO)

 

Lets Bing/ google it and see what we get

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (q+zA9)

379 Let math be your friend. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 06:01 PM (0LHZx) This from the guy who didn't actually do the math.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (yz6yg)

380 You wanted 40 million previously uninsured to sign up... You'll settle for a combination of 7 million prev. uninsured/insured. You'll get...fucked

Posted by: Moebius at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (zeWnb)

381 That Liriope Fields chap seems rather staunchy, doesn't he?

Posted by: johnd01 at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (ukNFU)

382 Posted by: Sean Bannion at March 31, 2014 05:59 PM (yz6yg)

$38k in California, with its high fuel costs and high taxes is very close to poverty for a family.

Even with the EITC and ObamaCare subsidies, they still are buying $4.00 gas and paying a ridiculous amount in sales tax, plus renting in a very, very expensive market.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (QFxY5)

383 225 "Then she died.

Posted by: Ronan Farrow"



This shit is fucking killing me.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 05:28 PM (gOoFi)


Can someone explain this to me.  I missed out.

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (Kkt/i)

384 Speaketh not the Devil's name, lest ye invoke him! ---------- Well the other two are here, might as well complete the unholy trinity of asshole.

Posted by: Adam at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (Aif/5)

385 So if $12.50 is middle class, $10 is as well or pretty damn close to it.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 05:59 PM (0LHZx)

 

Less than 10.00 which is more than 20% less.   That's contingent on my slide rule working properly.

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2014 02:03 PM (m2CN7)

386 PRO TIP: You're only asking for trouble if you foment the grapes. stupid spell check, although that's kinda funny.

Posted by: spypeach at March 31, 2014 02:04 PM (10H0T)

387 >>>PRO TIP: You're only asking for trouble if you foment the grapes.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 31, 2014 06:02 PM (8ZskC) <<<



We'll fuck yo' shit up.

Posted by: The California Raisins at March 31, 2014 02:04 PM (08jH8)

388 Pew research attempt to define "middle class":

A typical middle-class family needs a median household income of $85,000 in the East, $70,000 in the South, $60,000 in the Midwest and $70,000 in the West.

They broke it down a step further, saying the median for middle-class homes is $55,000 in rural areas, $70,000 in urban areas and $75,000 in suburban areas.


There's no excellent definition.  By traditional standards it's anything between the warrior nobility and the serf.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 02:04 PM (45N4D)

389 "349 "Median income is $61K for the entire state. Which means there are millions of people who earn under $38K. They're not rich by any means, but they're still middle class, even in CA. " Uh, what? If the median income is 61K, then those making 38K would be, by definition, not middle class. Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 05:55 PM (hFL/3)" Sometimes, Mr. Moo Moo insists on being "different." Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 31, 2014 02:04 PM (9W+0f)

390 I too, was skeptical of Dear Leader's glorious health plan. But then Ashton Kutcher asked me to sign up, and since I base all major decisions on the opinions of people on sitcoms from the late 90s, I went to the website. Once my erection subsided and the blood returned to my head, I saw a plan which was perfect for me. It only cost a couple thousand more than my current plan, but that is offset by less procedures being covered. So simple, and obviously higher quality. But more importantly, my inuit lesbian grandmother will now have maternity coverage. That's worth a little more. Don't believe those screaming Republican bomb-throwers with their talk about 'facts' and 'math.' Go to the website (and MSNBC.com) and get a proper opinion.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 31, 2014 02:04 PM (ojOys)

391 Well the other two are here, might as well complete the unholy trinity of asshole. Posted by: Adam at March 31, 2014 06:03 PM (Aif/5) All trolls are Average Joe. Who, I must note, sucks cocks by choice.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (yz6yg)

392 370 I just read Liriope Field's comment. I know marketing. If that little sell of his/hers isn't repeated elsewhere, verbatim, I'd be shocked. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 31, 2014 06:00 PM (DmNpO)

So if I hear you right, AoS is now legit enough that it is worthy of paid for lefty marketing trolls? Score, we've hit the jackpot people! I don't know what we win but we win something.

I vote Liriope for barrel cleaning duty. I'm a giver like that.

Posted by: LizLem at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (BF+2f)

393 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 06:02 PM (0LHZx)

Somebody up-thread agreed with you.

Just rest on your laurels.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (QFxY5)

394 Well the other two are here, might as well complete the unholy trinity of asshole.

Hoping it will form an anal singularity and suck the three of them out of our universe?

Posted by: Blanco Basura at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (0AKks)

395 If it gets repeated verbatim elsewhere do I get to split the royalties with the HQ?  Or maybe we bitchslap them with copyright claims?

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (uhMMS)

396 noodt

Posted by: Soothsayer, Lesbian Outreach Coordinator at March 31, 2014 02:05 PM (fWEL6)

397 $38k in California, with its high fuel costs and high taxes is very close to poverty for a family. Even with the EITC and ObamaCare subsidies, they still are buying $4.00 gas and paying a ridiculous amount in sales tax, plus renting in a very, very expensive market. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 06:03 PM (QFxY5) Pretty close??? My in-laws are in California. $38K/year there is destitute.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at March 31, 2014 02:06 PM (yz6yg)

398 Even with the EITC and ObamaCare subsidies, they still are buying $4.00 gas and paying a ridiculous amount in sales tax, plus renting in a very, very expensive market.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 06:03 PM (QFxY5)


____________


And also receiving all sorts of govt benefits like SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, Section 8, etc

$38K is more like $50K when taking into account all other bennies, plus the EITC as you mention.


Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 02:06 PM (0LHZx)

399 I have a flair for bullshit.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at March 31, 2014 02:07 PM (uhMMS)

400 nood

Posted by: wheatie at March 31, 2014 02:07 PM (m7/Sn)

401 And also receiving all sorts of govt benefits like SNAP, WIC, LIHEAP, Section 8, etc

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 06:06 PM (0LHZx)

QED

Thank you.

Now go home and get your fucking shine box.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 02:08 PM (QFxY5)

402 "Sure you do. It's a high end policy (hence the $800) that you get for $200. The benefits don't change because you get a subsidy. " Even the platinum plans have shit networks.

Posted by: Lauren at March 31, 2014 02:08 PM (hFL/3)

403 A typical middle-class family needs a median household income of
$85,000 in the East, $70,000 in the South, $60,000 in the Midwest and
$70,000 in the West.
They broke it down a step further, saying the
median for middle-class homes is $55,000 in rural areas, $70,000 in
urban areas and $75,000 in suburban areas.


There's no excellent definition. By traditional standards it's anything between the warrior nobility and the serf.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 31, 2014 06:04 PM (45N4D)


_________________


Nationally median income is $51K. So what you're saying is that only 30-40% of people nationally are middle class. That makes no sense if you understand what the word **middle** means.



Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 02:08 PM (0LHZx)

404
Thank you.

Now go home and get your fucking shine box.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 31, 2014 06:08 PM (QFxY5)


____________


Dude you made my point for me. They earn $38K, they get another $20K in tax credits and benefits, hence they're really making $58K. That is not poor, CA or not.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 31, 2014 02:09 PM (0LHZx)

405 Obamacare won't pay for shit until May 1.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 31, 2014 05:34 PM (ZPrif)


Yeah.  Sorry.  Don't mean to be flippant.  It's a huge shit sandwich.  And I don't think many people have good suggestions on how to minimize the pain.  It's a matter of finding the least painful option for your situation and trying to shoehorn yourself into the qualifications.


For us, it is paying 150-200% higher premiums with about the same increases in deductibles, while my state-employed sibling pays about half that for about double the risk. 

Posted by: flounder at March 31, 2014 02:13 PM (Kkt/i)

406 making $9.10 an hour is not middle class no matter what ridiculous spin you try to put on it.   It is the working poor who hopefully will continue to attempt to improve their lot in life and realize the benefit of the struggle.  

Posted by: polynikes at March 31, 2014 02:13 PM (m2CN7)

407 "Can someone explain this to me. I missed out. " Earlier thread. Ronan had some trouble announcing the death of one Ray and accidentally mixed them up with another Ray. So, it's been Ronan Farrow announcing the incorrect death of various "Rays" all afternoon.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 02:13 PM (gOoFi)

408 "Now go home and get your fucking shine box." Oh no he didn't.....

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at March 31, 2014 02:15 PM (gOoFi)

409 Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) That's actually kinda creepy -- some shill-bot with committee-written propaganda. In the next version, I'd like to see a few more references to conventional Americana imagery. Like tractors and baseball games and drinking lemonade on the porch, or parades, or maybe spending some time with your son fixing a car in the driveway. It's not a good shill without a lot more Americana slathered on. The gun thing was a nice touch, though.

Posted by: Phinn at March 31, 2014 02:15 PM (HINxj)

410 363 Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 05:55 PM (Ew9Pv) ____________________ Tell me more of this "Bill Share" plan. Is it affiliated with a Christian Denomination? Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 31, 2014 05:59 PM (32Ze2) Truck Monkey, I know of four bill-sharing plans, and they are all Christian ministries that don't mention any particular denomination. Check this link for a summary. http://thefederalist.com/2013/12/04/opt-obamacare/ One of them, Liberty HealthShare, apparently doesn't require that members be Christians, just that they believe in religious freedom. I went with Samaritan Ministries because they do not require that you apply for Medicaid (to help keep costs low for the members who help you pay your bills).

Posted by: Mindy at March 31, 2014 02:16 PM (Ew9Pv)

411 Nationally median income is $51K. So what you're saying is that only 30-40% of people nationally are middle class. That makes no sense if you understand what the word **middle** means.

I'm just relaying what Pew called "middle class".  I also readily admit that there isn't a good definition.  Your second and third quartile across the entire nation is OK, but I don't think it's the best.  I think the middle +/- 18% in every county is probably pretty good.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 31, 2014 02:16 PM (gtjN1)

412 I might be the only mid-forties guy who still writes checks for monthly bills though. Better than providing direct access to the bank account....

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 31, 2014 02:29 PM (vd7A8)

413 The Affordable Care Act works. But don't take my or anyone else's word for it. Go to the ACA website and see for yourself.
Posted by: Liriope Fields at March 31, 2014 05:41 PM (uhMMS) 

Listen up, moby: I don't care that you buy kneepads by the truckload so that you can thank Barry personally, but I do wish that you'd wipe off your chin before turning around to lecture the rest of us. Kthanbai.

Posted by: physics geek at March 31, 2014 03:37 PM (llWHs)

414 One million new sign ups, and how many millions saw their costs skyrocket like they were building a coal-fired power plant? If the Republicans can't eviscerate the Dems and the MSM (BIRM) after this illustration of what happens when Democrats have unrestrained power, I don't know what the hell they are good for.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 31, 2014 03:46 PM (g2Ee8)

415 To far down in the comments here but I will say it anyway. When I lost my insurance, I went straight to the insurance company to buy a new plan. The law doesn't require you to go through the Obamacare website just that you have insurance. Funny thing, it shows how we never really needed an Obamacare website other than to hand out subsidies. Contrary to Obama's statements, you could always go purchase private insurance if you wanted to and had the money. And this being the 21st century and all, you could go to the insurer's website to do so. Obamacare defenders are trying to rewrite history about how things used to work. Why did you know that before Obamacare you couldn't even shop for insurance much less buy it? So much fishy information coming out of the administration. Someone should report them to flag@whitehouse.gov

Posted by: wodun at March 31, 2014 03:52 PM (fbqZE)

416 I would be happy to earn $9.00/hr.

Posted by: NCwoof at March 31, 2014 06:10 PM (aUQgu)

417 Someone clarify for me please. Did 5-6 million "people" lose their insurance or were 5-6 million "plans" cancelled with average 2 or three per plan? If so and Obama care signs up 38 % about 2.5 million young invincibles (mostly single these days) which we know is not true but would be their dream come true, its quite possible the number of 'insured persons" is actually lower.

Posted by: Dirks strewn at April 01, 2014 03:22 AM (77F0w)

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