April 29, 2014

Louis CK Complains of Baffling Common Core Questions; Matthew Yglesias Helpfully Voxsplains Why Simple Math Is Being Made More Complicated
— Ace

Louis CK complained on Twitter.

I have to say I don't find the questions he posts particularly baffling, myself, and actually I would expect that kind of question to appear on pre-Common Core/non-Common Core tests as well.

Still, I imagine this is a cumulative thing, having so many unclear concepts thrown at his kid (and at him, as parents are expected to make sense of the textbook), and this is just the problem that compelled him to tweet.

Matthew Yglesias, a reliably thoughtless advocate for Bureaucratic Empowerment, immediately Voxplained it all to Louis CK by sending him a link to another writer on Vox who led her article with this rather self-defeating headline:

The Common Core makes simple math more complicated. Here's why.

She's actually trying to prove that Common Core is Awesome, but the headline sort of hints at the problem at the root of Common Core.

Common Core needlessly complicates the simple. They complicate the simple, supposedly, to impart "number sense" to kids, to get them to understand not just that 9 +3 = 12, but why 9 + 3 =12.

That's a very ambitious goal.

I suppose we should ask this question, however: Given that teachers are currently failing in the less-ambitious goal of simply teaching that 9+3= 12, why do we believe they'll be better at the more-ambitious goal of teaching why 9+3 =12.

You guys see Stand and Deliver, the story (IIRC) of Jamie Escalante, some kind of aerospace engineer (IIRC) who decided to try his hand at teaching math at a poor, underpeforming majority-Hispanic school?

Well, he has a class of higher-level students. He drills them to say "zero times six is zero, zero times seven is zero, zero times eight is zero," and so on, and then, in what the movie industry calls a "Button" (an exit-line designed to end a scene on a dangling, interesting question that either leads organically to the next scene or suggests unfilmed activity going on beyond the filmed scene), he says to the class:

"Good (that you understand that zero times any number is zero).

Now: Why?"

The "Why?" is an interesting question. But note the order in which he introduced it: First he drilled the basics. Then, with his higher-performing students only, he introduced the Why?, not as the foundation of mathematical exploration (the foundation being rote memorization and drilling), but as the apex of it.

The last step, not the first, and not even the fifth.

I have previously written of this, calling it Cargo Cult. Previously uncontacted aboriginal populations would see the great planes flying in the sky, and would see them land and discharge various cargoes, including, say, cans of Coca-Cola.

The aboriginals wanted their own Sky God Chariots, and wrongly believed that Coca-Cola had something to do with aerospace technology; they'd collect empty cans of Coca-Cola and arrange them in red-and-white shrines in the belief that mastery of the Coca-Cola would lead to mastery of the power of flight.

They confuse the end result of a highly technological civilization (standardized cans of mass-produced, globally-sold beverages) with the necessary prerequisites for that civilization.

Similarly, Common Core bureaucrats have noticed that kids who are high-performing in math tend to have a "number sense" that extends beyond rote memorization and the "standard algorithm" for solving problems (the "standard algorithm" is their term for the classic methods of two-digit multiplication and division, the carry-the-one algorithm which will always get the right answer if you're careful with basic arithmetic).

High-performing kids begin to understand that 17+6 can be thought of as 7+6, plus ten.

This is an important thing, as I've mentioned before.

But they're teaching this ass-backwards.

First comes the foundation, then comes the elaboration and sophistication.

Common Core takes the position that you teach all three simultaneously, in hopes that increasing the conceptual difficulty of a problem, and tripling the mental load a kid is required to get an answer for 17+6, will somehow make it "easier" for him.

Douglas Adams wrote:

The History of every major Galactic Civilization tends to pass through three distinct and recognizable phases, those of Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication, otherwise known as the How, Why, and Where phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question "How can we eat?" the second by the question "Why do we eat?" and the third by the question "Where shall we have lunch?"

A kid who hasn't figured out "How can we eat?" is going to starve until he does, and he's not going to profit from the "Why do we eat?" phase until he's got something in his belly.

Anyway, I've written about this before, several times.

They did the same thing with reading, and a generation lost its ability to read:

The mistake here seems to be the exact same mistake that these Professional Education Theorists made with respect to reading. They realized that high reading ability kids weren't using Phonics to sound out words, but instead were reading new words via the "whole word" method-- they were just looking at the word and saying it.

So educators said, "Hey, let's stop teaching this stodgy Phonics stuff, and start teaching Whole Word reading, like the proficient readers employ!!!"

Well, one problem with that: The proficient readers had begun as Phonics readers, but then, having become adept at reading, then began Whole Word reading only when they were reading at a near-young-adult level.

By attempting to treat the lower-level readers like the more accomplished readers, the educators stopped teaching the lower-level readers the skill that the accomplished readers had used to become accomplished readers in the first place. And that skill was Phonics.

Similarly, it seems these people have realized that kids who have internalized the times tables and arithmetic tables have, after a few years of fluency with them, noticed certain patterns and rules they could employ -- tricks, shortcuts. Stuff like breaking 13 into 10 and 3 (and invoking the Associative Property, even if they don't know what that is) to make computation simpler.

And once again they are trying to teach lower-performing kids the tricks that higher-performing kids are using, but skipping over the basic stuff that higher-performing kids had to internalize themselves to become higher-performing kids.

This just seems wrong to me, and faddish, like Whole Word learning was -- the Cult of the New, you know. If it's New, it must be Better.

Right?

Well, if Whole Word reading was indeed Better, why can't Johnny read?

And now they're doing the same thing with Math, figuring, insanely, that the way you get through to kids having trouble with a low-conceptual-difficulty "standard algorithm" is to teach them the high-conceptual-difficulty numerical insight and manipulation of numbers that I personally only became adept at after manipulating my thousandth equation in 8th grade algebra.

Yup, after the thousandth manipulation of an algebra equation, I did learn that I could do this type of thing not just with equations containing an x, with with equations containing nothing but numbers; and to this day I go out of my way to avoid the standard algorithm, always starting with some kind of manipulation of the equation.

Like, just for this article, I tried to think, "How would I really get the answer for 42 - 19?"

How would you do it? If you employ the standard algorithm, you probably got the answer pretty quickly.

What I did was notice 42 was just 21 times two, and I prefer working with smaller numbers, so I subtracted 19 from 21 to get two, then added it to the other 21 to get 23.

Actually, I should point out that when I subtracted 19 from 21 I had no idea what to do with the 2 -- I didn't know if I should add it to 21, or subtract it from 23 --and then I spent about thirty seconds trying to figure this out (is 19 further away from 42 than 21, in which case I should add the 2, or closer to 42 than 19, in which case I should subtract?), so actually my "manipulate the equation for ease and quickness" wound up wasting a lot of time, but still, okay, that's how I really did the problem.

But so what we are now doing is basically teaching kids that convoluted method of getting the answer to 42-19. Yes, it will work (if you remember what the hell to do with the 2).

Yes, a facility at manipulating equations for convenience and speed is a sign of "number sense," and it can be argued that anyone who can't think in this way doesn't have as deep an understanding of math than someone who can.

(Even though, in my case, my convoluted alternate method of getting an answer would up taking almost a minute, instead of the three seconds the standard algorithm would take -- but you know, people who try to avoid hard work do usually wind up doing more work than they would if they just did the hard work they were trying to avoid in the first place.)

But all this elaboration and complication, remember, is being thrown at kids who are barely able to do the basics of math -- all in the hopes that complicating everything and asking them to master Five Different Ways To Get The Answer is somehow going to make them better at math.

And when I say "five different ways to get the answer," do understand, I mean five different algorithms. Five different algorithms, instead of the one.

This is what I mean by "mental load." I don't know about how you think, but I can guess, because I think most humans share a strong preference for a certain way of thinking:

We want the simplest possible rule, the dumbest possible rule, the rule that imposes the least mental load on us first, even if that rule (that algorithm) may not be as fast as other techniques.

And we figure this: Once we have that low-mental-load algorithm in place, we will begin figuring out the shortcuts and adding elaboration to the rules at our own speed, as necessary, and as is convenient.

Most people prefer when rules are simple and complications are emergent, that is, the complications and elaborations emerge from the simple rules.

Most people hate when the rules themselves are complex and onerous. That's why most people, except people who design new operating system interfaces, hate having to learn the New Rules of the operating system interface.

Instead of teaching kids the basic algorithm and letting kids add in these other modular bits of math as needed, we're dropping this Five Different Ways to Confuse and Baffle you from Jump Street.

Two reasons for the most intense of intense skepticism on this New Revolutionary Bureaucratic Solution:

1. Whenever an organization is failing, they propose a New System You Guys!!! for doing things.

This is Standard Bureaucratic Response #1-A -- It's not our people's fault we failed, but rather the fault of the System Itself (note that unions don't care if the "System Itself" gets fired and replaced, only the people) -- and this proposal is issued whether the New System is actually preferable to the old one or, as is frequently the case, not.

An organization needs to explain its failures and needs to propose the hope that if they just change their System, they will finally begin improving their performance.

Usually they continue failing in a different way. Sometimes they even fail worse (as in the case of replacing Phonics with Whole Word).

This New System!!! will be proven to be a failure in 10-15 years, but bureaucratic inertia will keep it in place for 20-30 years; and during that period, the New System!!! will have accomplished precisely what it was intended to accomplish, to wit, solving the problem of the bureaucracy being criticized for failure.

And not, by the way, actually addressing the causes of the failure.

Just getting people off the bureaucracy's backs so they are free to fail without too much aggravation about it.

2. Not only are kids are parents baffled by this poorly-explained multiplicity of algorithms for getting the same result, but I strongly suspect their teachers are as well.

I think if their teachers understood this Dazzling Array of New Tools to Get the Wrong Answer, the kids would understand it better.

I think teachers don't really get this, and one of the most crippling things you can do to a child's mind is put a teacher up in front of him who doesn't understand what the hell it is she's supposed to be teaching him.

He will not be able to get good answers from her -- she doesn't understand it herself -- but she'll be required to pretend as if this all makes sense.

The kid will learn under this regime -- he will learn that education is futile and effort is wasted and thinking hurts your brain, and only leads to more confusion and embarrassment.

The exact opposite of empowerment, which is what learning should be about.

If teachers are not teaching the "Standard Algorithm" well enough at the moment, I am really baffled at concept of giving them alternative ways to fail to teach kids: "Skip-Counting," "Number-Pairs," "Front-Estimation," and all the rest of it.


Posted by: Ace at 12:54 PM | Comments (391)
Post contains 2261 words, total size 14 kb.

1 Yeah ok that's all fine and dandy but where did all the liberal crap indoctination come from and how can we get rid of it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 29, 2014 12:57 PM (t3UFN)

2 That's a long ass Math Movie Review

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 12:58 PM (0LHZx)

3 I'll wait until it goes to DVD.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at April 29, 2014 12:59 PM (E8IHS)

4 Common core...the movie review

Posted by: MilitarizedThugCopJoe at April 29, 2014 12:59 PM (zLsg3)

5 As always follow the money... Who is profiting from this insanity? Who gets paid to write the new books and the new tests? I'll bet a lot of money one Jeb Bush and one Bill Gates is somehow connected to the corporations that are going to make gazillions of dollars off of this.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 12:59 PM (0LHZx)

6 There is no family memory of my being unable to read. In fact, my mother is convinced that I have always known how to read. I can still do my phonics charts. Whoever it was who said that you don't get an education Ph.D. by saying "Hey! The old ways are awesome!" nailed it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 29, 2014 01:00 PM (mf5HN)

7 Yeah at my Grand kids school they decided to do away with cursive writing. Who needs to learn penmanship when you can just print.... Maybe all we need is to mark an X for our names...

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at April 29, 2014 01:00 PM (9+ccr)

8 Within my lifetime, children were actually educated at school. How about we go back to that.

Posted by: toby928© at April 29, 2014 01:00 PM (QupBk)

9 >>>Who is profiting from this insanity? as i added in an edit: . Whenever an organization is failing, they propose a New System You Guys!!! for doing things. This is Standard Bureaucratic Response #1-A -- It's not our people's fault we failed, but rather the fault of the System Itself (note that unions don't care if the "System Itself" gets fired and replaced, only the people) -- and this proposal is issued whether the New System is actually preferable to the old one or, as is frequently the case, not. An organization needs to explain its failures and needs to propose the hope that if they just change their System, they will finally begin improving their performance. Usually they continue failing in a different way. Sometimes they even fail worse (as in the case of replacing Phonics with Whole Word). This New System!!! will be proven to be a failure in 10-15 years, but bureaucratic inertia will keep it in place for 20-30 years; and during that period, the New System!!! will have accomplished precisely what it was intended to accomplish, to wit, solving the problem of the bureaucracy being criticized for failure. And not, by the way, actually addressing the causes of the failure. Just getting people off the bureaucracy's backs so they are free to fail without too much aggravation about it. Bureaucracies profit from this as it gets their supervising authorities off their backs for a generation or so.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (/FnUH)

10 Why don't we send some of our teachers to the private school Obama sends his kids to so they can see how it's done?

Posted by: JohnJ at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (TF/YA)

11 most liberal teachers can't teach for shit to begin with. Watching them try to communicate the nonsense of common core to kids does kind of have comedic potential. Like a snail trying to explain quantum physics.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (x3YFz)

12 "1. Whenever an organization is failing, they propose a New System You Guys!!! for doing things. "

Corollary: since the unionized public schools are _always_ failing, they are constantly proposing New System You Guys.

It's a never-ending cycle.

Meanwhile, Singapore have been plugging away with their boring old curriculum for the last three decades without changing anything about it. It works, consistently, and it produces pupils who consistently top the international league tables for mathematical achievement.

Of course, Singapore has accountability. Strong accountability. You're fired with immediate effect and don't ever come back accountability.

Whereas in the USA? Accountability? What's that? I'm pretty sure our union contract forbids it.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (noWW6)

13 Uhhhh....anyone heard about Ill. State Rep Keith Farnham (D) who was just arrested for child porn...involving explotation of a 6 year old?

Posted by: Emperor Norton II at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (MlqTY)

14 I've heard from a few lefties who are hating CC as well. It's a rare occasion when both the left and the right hate the same thing. Although given the Kool Aid behavior by most of the left, douches like Vox writers will love it because Obama loves it.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:01 PM (0LHZx)

15 If the kids can't understand math due to common core then the easy fix is to motivate them.... .....by sending MILITARIZED THUG COPS!!! over to their house to beat them and shot their dog until they learn

Posted by: MilitarizedThugCopJoe at April 29, 2014 01:02 PM (zLsg3)

16 Oh, and zero? That was ours. You're welcome.

Posted by: The Muzztards at April 29, 2014 01:02 PM (8ZskC)

17 And we wonder why our scholastic test scores keep going down compared to other countries...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:02 PM (0HooB)

18 13 Uhhhh....anyone heard about Ill. State Rep Keith Farnham (D) who was just arrested for child porn...involving explotation of a 6 year old? Posted by: Emperor Norton II at April 29, 2014 05:01 PM (MlqTY) ________ Who? What? No clue what the fuck you're talking about.

Posted by: MSM at April 29, 2014 01:03 PM (0LHZx)

19 Maybe we can just get them drunk and hit them on the head?

Like that guy who became a savant after such?


Seems we'd have the same results--if not better.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (VjL9S)

20 Common core talks like a fag and its shit's all retarded.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (mx5oN)

21 Although given the Kool Aid behavior by most of the left, douches like Vox writers will love it because Obama loves it. Why does that not surprise me? Blind...leading, something, ditch, something...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (0HooB)

22 I used to be hooked on coke. Now I'm hooked on phonics.

Posted by: charlie barkley at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (D+5pt)

23 as an undergrad (thankfully, not so much as a grad student), watching supposedly qualified tenured professors try to teach concepts which they obviously didn't grasp was pretty funny stuff. I can't imagine what K-12 looks like these days. Add common fail? LOL.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (x3YFz)

24 Lefty-loosey, righty-tighty is all the education most prole kiddies will ever need.

Posted by: Your Societal Elites, Vanguard of the Revolution at April 29, 2014 01:04 PM (8ZskC)

25 Common core....just the name alone has the stench of lib shit.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 29, 2014 01:05 PM (FMbng)

26 16 Oh, and zero? That was ours. You're welcome. Hey you, give that back!

Posted by: The Hindus at April 29, 2014 01:05 PM (obTkq)

27 So, Ace, who by all indications is a Gen Xer living in his mom's basement in Canarsie, can immediately see the fundamental flaws in Common Core. And it took him a few hours of reading about the topic and, probably, some analysis of some of the lesson plans.

We have a Department of Education staffed by the best and brightest that Harvard  can produce, yet they are too fucking stupid and ignorant to figure this out.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:05 PM (QFxY5)

28 I know story problems are important, but it seems like there is an unecessary amount of them in the CC curriculum. Some are ambiguous, which does no favors to a child learning the basics. It is quite frustrating as a parent. They are going about teaching everything ass backwards.

Posted by: no good deed at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (ILBCY)

29 Louis CK is the fuckface who joked about Sarah Palins disabled child, among other vulgar nasty hateful shit he had to say about her.

I'd like to meet him someday.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (NnjE8)

30 Oh, and the start of this stupidity was "let's not teach cursive anymore 'cause the kids all write in block print anyway."

Lazy fucking teachers, all of them, they have one job: Reading, writing and arithmetic.
And out of those three, not one is left.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (VjL9S)

31 I used to be hooked on coke. Now I'm hooked on phonics. This is your brain on Phonics

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (8ZskC)

32 All this because schools don't want to face the truth about education. Parents matter and teachers matter. If parents suck, you've got to take the KIPP path and keep the kids physically in school for as many hours a day as possible with the best teachers possible. Now should this be mandatory? Absolutely not. No, no, no, no. Should it be an option? Yes, yes, yes, yes! But, no, let's all demonize charter schools and focus on confusing mental math instead while the kids go home after a day with Teacher ImJustHereForTheCheck to an empty house and bread sandwiches for dinner.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (hFL/3)

33 Okay, not a single commenter above me read this entire post. Cheaters, all of you.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:06 PM (8UCj3)

34 When I do multiplication in my head, I use the common core method. Nobody taught it to me, I just kind of figrued out that 23 X 15 = 230 + 100 + 15. But the only reason I know that, is because I was taught how to do 23 X 15 the "old fashioned" way. If someone had just taught me to do the 230 + 100 +15 way upfront, I'd probably never have learned how to multiply numbers.

Posted by: MSM at April 29, 2014 01:07 PM (0LHZx)

35 "They did the same thing with reading, and a generation lost its ability to read"

Yes, and it was at that point that the entire unionized public school system should have been ripped out root and branch, the earth sown with salt, and the educrats responsible banished en masse to an Arctic gulag.

Remember the 1970s chirpy slogan? "Reading is fundamental!"

It sure the hell is. Because kids who aren't proficient readers aren't going to be able to, for instance, parse a word problem in math class.

However, instead of salubrious career destruction and quavering fright being visited upon the educrats who created the illiteracy catastrophe, instead, the institutional left formed ranks and locked shields and made sure there would be no consequences at all.

Really at this point the rot is too deep. The only solution is to start to build superior parallel systems to give kids and parents real options. The homeschoolers are blazing the trail.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:07 PM (noWW6)

36 One day we'll be able to plug our kid's brain into a USB port (USB 7.0, probably) and download a lifetime's worth of Leftist indoctrination in just one 10-minute session.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (8ZskC)

37 Ace, you've hit on another meme: "Common Core Cargo Cult."  I'll just call it "C4" since it's doing such a fine job of demolishing education.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (KNXgp)

38 First they screwed up reading. Then they screwed up math.

I wonder how the new sex education curriculum is going to work?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (AC0lD)

39 Quantitative reasoning serves no purpose with simple arithmetic, if that's her reasoning.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (8UCj3)

40 I've said it a few times before, I find it fascinating that we have been educating children for 380 years in America and apparently have no idea on how to effectively teach them or what the exact knowledge a child should be able to display after every grade.

Posted by: Kreplach at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (aaqzr)

41 "Okay, not a single commenter above me read this entire post."

Not only did I read it, I read it in the original boldface.

Mentally translating back to non-bold as I went.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:08 PM (noWW6)

42 Bureaucracies profit from this as it gets their supervising authorities off their backs for a generation or so. IIRC, there's some sort of royalty that gets paid to somebody for using CC. Heard it was Bill Gates, but not sure if that's true.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (0HooB)

43 Make every kid wait tables for a couple of weeks. They will be doing fractions and percentages in their head in no time.

Posted by: Chaos the Other Dark Meat at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (oDCMR)

44 First comes the foundation, then comes the elaboration and sophistication.

They did the same thing with reading, and a generation lost its ability to read:

The sophisticated stuff first approach works no better for presidenting. 

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (4nR9/)

45 Louis CK is the fuckface who joked about Sarah Palins disabled child, among other vulgar nasty hateful shit he had to say about her. I'd like to meet him someday. Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at April 29, 2014 05:06 PM (NnjE yup. Him and that fat fuck patton oswalt.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (x3YFz)

46 So, if we collected empty valurite bottles and fashioned some sort of large depiction of Ace with them, Ace would give us more threads??

Posted by: Commissar Pug at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (8c12T)

47 …you know, people who try to avoid hard work do usually wind up doing more work than they would if they just did the hard work they were trying to avoid in the first place. I printed out and pasted up the xkcd “time saved” chart just to avoid that very noted tendency in myself. http://xkcd.com/1205/ (However, it does not cover “time spent reading blogs”.)

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 29, 2014 01:09 PM (WX3R9)

48 >>>When I do multiplication in my head, I use the common core method. Nobody taught it to me, I just kind of figrued out that 23 X 15 = 230 + 100 + 15. But the only reason I know that, is because I was taught how to do 23 X 15 the "old fashioned" way. If someone had just taught me to do the 230 + 100 +15 way upfront, I'd probably never have learned how to multiply numbers. yeah you figure it out -- this is an *emergent* property of math that will occur to people when they become fluent with the basics (the Standard Algorithm). I don't get teaching five different algorithms to kids who have not yet mastered The One Algorithm.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (/FnUH)

49 Okay, not a single commenter above me read this entire post. *Ahem* I'll wait for it to come out in the Ciceronian Latin.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (8ZskC)

50 I see the same pie-in-the-sky attitude that you see in other political realms, that everybody is the same.  Just teach all kids the way bright kids can learn, and before you know it they'll all be as smart as the smartest.  Reality will collide though, and I hate to think of how many average kids are going to tune out and drop out, thinking they are stupid.

Posted by: Mayday at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (eHc+1)

51 OH GOD OF VAL-U-RITE, HEAR OUR PRAYERS!

Posted by: Commissar Pug at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (8c12T)

52
You guys see Stand and Deliver, the story (IIRC) of Jamie Escalante, some kind of aerospace engineer (IIRC) who decided to try his hand at teaching math at a poor, underpeforming majority-Hispanic school?




Kinda...

South Park - How Do I Reach These Keeeds?

http://tinyurl.com/3x6tfkg

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (kdS6q)

53 I wonder how the new sex education curriculum is going to work?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at April 29, 2014 05:08 PM (AC0lD)



Three women = one baby?

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:10 PM (KNXgp)

54 I can remember learning to WRITE. I have a distinct memory of drawing out my name in clumsy block capitals. Just prior to first grade. Which means that I really couldn't write at the time. I did learn to read before that, kindergartenish. I'd have been six. Thank you, Sesame Street

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (RTQgm)

55 First they screwed up reading. Then they screwed up math.
I wonder how the new sex education curriculum is going to work?
They'll be doing plenty of screwing: up, down and sideways.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (D+5pt)

56 By the way Ace, this meshes beautifully with your Tea Party post from yesterday.

Bureaucracy is not limited to the left....it is limited only by the ability of its customers to control the compensation of the bureaucrats. 

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (QFxY5)

57 They complicate the simple, supposedly, to impart "number sense" to kids, to get them to understand not just that 9 +3 = 12, but why 9 + 3 =12.

This is the kind of crap they started with in the "New Math" (remember that?) back in the 60s. "Oh, we want the kids to really understand the math they're doing, not just rote arithmetic." If course, the only math that 80% of the population ever need is the arithmetic to balance their checkbook. Save the 'why' questions for the math majors.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (I8YZX)

58 And we also have a field of study and discipline that you can get up to a phd in called "education" I find this all quite fascinating.

Posted by: Kreplach at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (aaqzr)

59 Yes, and it was at that point that the entire unionized public school system should have been ripped out root and branch, the earth sown with salt, and the educrats responsible banished en masse to an Arctic gulag.

As Ace pointed out, there's a cycle to these things.  The guilty ones are gone by the time it's time to assign blame and assess penalties.  That's by design.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:11 PM (4nR9/)

60 Ace, I got a kick out of your method of subtracting 19 from 42. My system was, well 42-20 is 22, but since I only am subtracting 19, the remainder will be one more, which is 23. As if either of our methods is actually any easier than the standard algorithm.

Posted by: mikesixes at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (/Wpsy)

61 55 First they screwed up reading. Then they screwed up math. I wonder how the new sex education curriculum is going to work? They'll be doing plenty of screwing: up, down and sideways. Posted by: andycanuck at April 29, 2014 05:11 PM (D+5pt) Fisting kits!

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (mx5oN)

62 I find it fascinating that we have been educating children for 380 years in America and apparently have no idea on how to effectively teach them or what the exact knowledge a child should be able to display after every grade. If you haven't already, look up some of the test questions from the late 19th century schools. Funny how, back when we were a largely agrarian society, we were much better educated. Math, English, literature, all of it was much more advanced than the pap kids are learning today.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (0HooB)

63 LouieCK has one comedic shtick and one comedic shtick only: beating off.

Posted by: Commissar Pug at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (8c12T)

64 "Okay, not a single commenter above me read this entire post." I read it. The quoted material is abject nonsense, so why comment on a hollow argument of bullshit? That'd be like pointing at pig shit and grunting. Not Ace's post, but the nonsense presented in defense of common stupidity.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (x3YFz)

65 According to 'Coach' Stirling, this is what happens when you teach slaves to read and right. Next thing you know, one of them is screwing your girlfriend . Then he ends up wit yo bastitball teem.

Posted by: Erowmero at April 29, 2014 01:12 PM (go5uR)

66 i thought there wasn't supposed to be math here

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at April 29, 2014 01:13 PM (0S+77)

67 To which I respond: What's So Bad About Brute Force Arithmetic? It's good to "wire" the brain's synapses, exercise them if you please, to do the heavy lifting for some math -- which will become second-nature when one becomes an adult.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:13 PM (8UCj3)

68 When I do multiplication in my head, I use the common core method. Nobody taught it to me, I just kind of figrued out that 23 X 15 = 230 + 100 + 15. HereÂ’s how I do subtraction. If I take $10 out of my wallet and put it in my shirt pocket, my wallet has just loaned $10 to my shirt. My wallet has an asset worth $10; my shirt has $10. I now have an extra $20 to spend. If I originally had $100, I now have $200, because I doubled that $10, plus the $20 extra, for a total or $240. See? ItÂ’s easy!

Posted by: Congress at April 29, 2014 01:13 PM (WX3R9)

69 45 Louis CK is the fuckface who joked about Sarah Palins disabled child, among other vulgar nasty hateful shit he had to say about her. I'd like to meet him someday. Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at April 29, 2014 05:06 PM (NnjE yup. Him and that fat fuck patton oswalt. Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:09 PM (x3YFz) The script of a movie based on Todd Palin finding them at a snowed in Alaskan lodge would be fun to write.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:13 PM (Aqvh6)

70 I think we're talking about arithmetic here.

Louie CK just knows how to bitch about crap in a relatively unfunny way.

Posted by: Sphynx at April 29, 2014 01:13 PM (OZmbA)

71 Oh please let's have leftists talking about politicians' kids. There's a discussion i'd like to air about Mark Udall's spawn. Caught breaking into cars down the road from me, for heroin money

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (RTQgm)

72 "Lefty-loosey, righty-tighty is all the education most prole kiddies will ever need."

Um, yeah, about that.

It's now common for the people who run the remnants of America's shattered manufacturing base to have kids out of high school show up applying for jobs who quite literally and specifically _do not know how a screwdriver works_ or in which directions standard fasteners turn.

(Because everyone was supposed to go to college for degrees in Whatever Studies and were then going to be given awesome highly paid jobs in symbol manipulation with no actual physical labor involved.)

There are then further hurdles for those so brave as to attempt training them. Want a laugh? Tell a millennial to turn something "counterclockwise".

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (noWW6)

73 Ah... Common Core. Ensuring that the next generations will continue to be worthless idiots who depend on government handouts and vote Democrat.

Posted by: Damiano at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (j0wOO)

74 Yeah ok that's all fine and dandy but where did all the liberal crap indoctination come from and how can we get rid of it Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 29, 2014 04:57 PM

That, like so many questions that arise regarding what has happened to this once-great country, is one the pundits stolidly refuse to answer.

"How can we get rid of it?" means accepting the need for some hard work, including organized resistance to the Forces of Choom. Why, it involves racism, because one of the most obvious and effective solutions is to get rid of President Historic First© and everyone who agrees with his lazy, America-hating, hacky-sack-playing view of the world.

Instead of promoting those who advocate dumbing everyone down to a level where All Will Be Equal, we need to be figting for higher standards, and the only place where that can begin is by supporting those few adults who will put what is right before what is politically expedient.

Do you hear or see any of our commentariat doing that? I don't. It's easier, after all, to take little nibbles out of those doing the dirty work, which never stops them.

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (dDzOj)

75 You know what happens when you try to simultaneously teach Johnny three ways to do something at the same time? He gets confused and combines two or all three methods into something and gets a completely wrong answer. Of course these fucked up standards will still having Johnny getting a good grade for just trying so damn hard.

Posted by: Luke Skywalker at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (z/Ubi)

76 From the Yglesias link: The Common Core state standards, now in place in 44 states, will require that elementary school kids not just to know how to subtract, multiply and divide, but to understand what they're doing and why. That means more number sentences — the term, if you're curious, just means "equations" — and other unfamiliar concepts, like area multiplication and number line subtraction. Yes, more number sequences will absolutely help those frustrated math students. Pffffffftttttttt

Posted by: Seems legit at April 29, 2014 01:14 PM (A98Xu)

77 How widespread is this curriculum? I've read about it here but haven't heard much about it anywhere else.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at April 29, 2014 01:15 PM (+lsX1)

78 The script of a movie based on Todd Palin finding them at a snowed in Alaskan lodge would be fun to write. Saw meets Hostel.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 01:15 PM (mx5oN)

79 First comes the foundation, then comes the elaboration and sophistication. You're seeing it all wrong Ace. Look at how the Free Jazz movement still dominates the popular charts. But seriously, I've wondered if this is some sort of outgrowth of the Marxist influence in the teachers' programs; the "education" majors. Rather than compress learning into shortcuts the common core kind of system seems designed to wash out any but the brightest and the best parrots. The Ruling class versus the Serfs. Alphas and Betas; Brave New World and all that.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 01:15 PM (104c0)

80 Ace, I got a kick out of your method of subtracting 19 from 42. My system was, well 42-20 is 22, but since I only am subtracting 19, the remainder will be one more, which is 23. As if either of our methods is actually any easier than the standard algorithm. Posted by: mikesixes at April 29, 2014 05:12 PM (/Wpsy) Our teachers taught us to work in 10s. I'd round up, to 20-42 and then add 1 for the give. However your brain works, fast, simple and correct is the goal.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:15 PM (x3YFz)

81 It seems that the basic act of teaching on an elementary school level is pretty, um, elementary. But once you start giving degrees in "Education" the inevitable artificial complexity kicks in as people try to justify their trade as a profession. What follows is jargon, bizarre counter-intuitive methods and endless bureaucratization. In the days before teachers were Educators, elementary school kids had to learn Latin and have a passing familiarity with the classical world. I don't think we're better off now.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 29, 2014 01:15 PM (8ZskC)

82 Whoever it was who said that you don't get an education Ph.D. by saying "Hey! The old ways are awesome!" nailed it. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 29, 2014 05:00 PM (mf5HN) The problem with the PhD, you have to come up with something "novel" to contribute to the field. I managed to convince them that saying "we fucked it all up in the 80s let's roll back" was novel. But the education PhDs and EDDs wont' be so lucky.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (HDwDg)

83 "Make every kid wait tables for a couple of weeks. They will be doing fractions and percentages in their head in no time."

Practical empirical experience FTW!

Not limited to waiting tables.

"Say what you will about drugs, they did successfully teach an entire generation of American youth the metric system." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (noWW6)

84 50 I see the same pie-in-the-sky attitude that you see in other political realms, that everybody is the same. Just teach all kids the way bright kids can learn, and before you know it they'll all be as smart as the smartest. Reality will collide though, and I hate to think of how many average kids are going to tune out and drop out, thinking they are stupid.

I have often wondered how many of them actually believe this twaddle, and how many are mouthing it out of sheer cynicism.  Because that's how you get ahead in the education establishment. 

After 23 years, I have about 2 months more dealing with the public schools.  And then I will tell them to kiss my pasty ass. 

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (4nR9/)

85 Both of my kids, a ChemEng & ElecEng, always did their math the "wrong way" but always got the right results.  It's a gift.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (e8kgV)

86 I must be having a bad day because bitching about common core is one of my favorite pastimes and I got nothin.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (+0txR)

87 From the Yglesias link: The Common Core state standards, now in place in 44 states, will require that elementary school kids not just to know how to subtract, multiply and divide, but to understand what they're doing and why. That means more number sentences — the term, if you're curious, just means "equations" — and other unfamiliar concepts, like area multiplication and number line subtraction. Yes, more number sequences will absolutely help those frustrated math students. Pffffffftttttttt Posted by: Seems legit at April 29, 2014 05:14 PM (A98Xu) Yeah, like we're supposed to take math advice from Matty who majored in nuclear engi... wait...what?

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (x3YFz)

88

But they're teaching this ass-backwards.

First comes the foundation, then comes the elaboration and sophistication.


----


Word.


They did this about a decade ago with reading skills.   Some pointy headed teaching guru convinced everybody that site reading words was "easier" than learning by  phonics.  Soooo.... phonics was ditched in favor of site reading words.

Mrs Fixer and fought this battle numerous times with our oldest who had language based IEP's due to his hearing loss.   No way in hell that boy was going to learn site reading without having the basics of phonics first.

Posted by: Hillary! at April 29, 2014 01:16 PM (nELVU)

89 Why do we need to deal with numbers and stuff?

We have calculators. We have smart phones.

We have a computer at my job at McDonalds that tells me what change to give.

Posted by: LIV at April 29, 2014 01:17 PM (OZmbA)

90 I find it fascinating that we have been educating children for 380 years in America and apparently have no idea on how to effectively teach them or what the exact knowledge a child should be able to display after every grade. Posted by: Kreplach at April 29, 2014 05:08 PM (aaqzr) ________ For the first 350 or so years we did just fine. Then sometime in the 80s, liberals decided 350 years of success had to be thrown into the toilet and start experimenting with new and unproven ways of teaching.

Posted by: MSM at April 29, 2014 01:17 PM (0LHZx)

91 You know what I can't do? Tie knots. I'm serious. Some guys have a talent for rigging and tie all sorts of knots appropriate for the occasion. I can only tie a simple shoelace knot. But what I'm really good at is spatial estimation. I can estimate area and distance very well.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:17 PM (8UCj3)

92 oh my god..... I left my Hilary! sock on.

Thats me at 88.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:18 PM (nELVU)

93 I can throw a rock.

Posted by: Jiggly Stoat at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (QupBk)

94 The problem with the PhD, you have to come up with something "novel" to contribute to the field. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:16 PM (HDwDg) Having witnessed my significant better half navigate through the PhD process, I disagree. You have to come up with nonsense no one will ever read to make a bunch of people you don't like fail to find fault in your footnotes.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (x3YFz)

95 They need Common Core math to make Obamacare work.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (Aqvh6)

96 We have a Department of Education staffed by the best and brightest that Harvard can produce, yet they are too fucking stupid and ignorant to figure this out. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:05 PM (QFxY5) I dunno if they don't see it, or if they're in too deep they don't want to crawl out. Either is possible.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (HDwDg)

97 However your brain works, fast, simple and correct is the goal.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:15 PM (x3YFz)

This.

It's fucking arithmetic. It is a basic tool. Knowing how and why it works is a luxury best left to mathematicians.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (QFxY5)

98 In a way this is OK with me since my kids will be getting top notch education in a private school while the LIV's kids will graduate not being able to do basic math. Less competition for my kids when it comes time for jobs and college.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (0LHZx)

99 7 Yeah at my Grand kids school they decided to do away with cursive writing. Who needs to learn penmanship when you can just print.... Maybe all we need is to mark an X for our names... Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at April 29, 2014 05:00 PM (9+ccr) My mother just went back to the classroom after about six or seven years of being in administration. She's teaching first grade and hoo-boy, is she upset with this new stuff. She says they do not teach handwriting at all in her county. They show them the letters in Kindergarten and ask them to write them but do not teach any specific mood of letter formation. So she has children three-quarters of the way through first grade that can barely write. And what's worse is that most of their lessons (which she is required to teach as written) do not incorporate writing in any substantial way. Take spelling, for example. Their lessons focus on sounding out the words, making them verbally say and spell the words, doing word scrambles out loud as a class, but never actually writing the words out like we used to do. So they get to the quiz every Friday and you have a class full of seven-year-olds that are being asked to write out a list of words and spell them correctly without ever having written the words even once all week. She has asked multiple times why they can't write the words and has been told that they don't do rote memorization anymore. I don't even want to get started on the stuff she tells me about math. The crap going on in schools right now is crazy.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (qFpRI)

100 38 First they screwed up reading. Then they screwed up math. I wonder how the new sex education curriculum is going to work? Posted by: Stateless Infidel at April 29, 2014 05:08 PM (AC0lD) Jimmy likes to wear a full bunny costume while rubbing up against other people in fox costumes. Suzy likes to wear a full body latex suit and gas mask while being spanked. Explain why these two are currently incompatible and where they could possibly achieve satisfaction together.

Posted by: Luke Skywalker at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (z/Ubi)

101 I was told there would be no math on the blog.

Posted by: Sharkman at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (TM1p8)

102 >>Ace, I got a kick out of your method of subtracting 19 from 42. My system was, well 42-20 is 22, but since I only am subtracting 19, the remainder will be one more, which is 23. As if either of our methods is actually any easier than the standard algorithm. it occurred to me afterwards that that was the better way to do it, but I wanted to actually tell you what I'd actually done. 42-19 is so dead simple the standard algorithm just flat-out beats everything but, again, I was trying to explain how I actually do math (even if it's not actually a very good way). One thing to keep in mind in all of this is that there is not just one way to do a problem, nor two, nor three, nor five; there are dozens of ways to do it. Once you know all the manipulations typically taught in algebra, you have a LOT of different ways to to a problem. Not all of these will be optimal.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (/FnUH)

103 How widespread? Try 44 of 50 states widespread. Oh and yes Bill Gates is up to his filthy progressive oligarch eyeballs in this. Under the guise of creating a 21st century workforce. By which I am beginning to suspect he means dumb and easily influenced.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (+0txR)

104 Ma and Pa Kettle had C4 math down decades ago:  http://youtu.be/jSrPlf4GBHc

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:19 PM (KNXgp)

105 But this Common Core math absolutely is the 'right' math for today. After all, we now live in a Through The Looking Glass world. For instance, the new racism is the denial of racism. I heard it on TV, so it must be true.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (8UCj3)

106 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (HDwDg)

Or there really is a concerted effort to dumb down the population so that they are incapable of functioning while not sucking on the government teat.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (QFxY5)

107 I can throw a rock. Posted by: Jiggly Stoat at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (QupBk) You are now qualified to be a palestinian muslim

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (x3YFz)

108 Why do I need math? I am getting my Doctorate in 18th Century LBGT Studies. My guidance counselor assures me that I will have a $250,000/ yr. job on graduation. Duh.

Posted by: Typical College Student at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (j0wOO)

109 Dept. of Education has it's own high speed low drag swats now . That oughta' teach those damn kids to apply themselves !

Posted by: awkward davies at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (whqez)

110

The pertinent question here is why do we let idiots educate our kids?

Posted by: maddogg at April 29, 2014 01:20 PM (xWW96)

111 It's fucking arithmetic. It is a basic tool. Knowing how and why it works is a luxury best left to mathematicians. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (QFxY5) Absolutely agree. Lots of kids are grinding it out just doing the basics, the theoretical for them is ridiculous.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 29, 2014 01:21 PM (A98Xu)

112 Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:16 PM (x3YFz) I still remember "Bridge A is 650 feet. Bridge B is 700 ft. Which is longer. Why?" Dude I've passed calc 2 and I still couldn't tell you "why" other than "that's the definition of longer." Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (x3YFz) Oh you again. Fair point. But still you can't just recycle crap. They tend to find fault in that.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:21 PM (HDwDg)

113 Conservatives should band together in groups in their respective areas and form their own schools. One room schoolhouses were common back in the day. We could do it again.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:21 PM (oMKp3)

114 Knowing how and why it works is a luxury best left to mathematicians. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (QFxY5) ...whom everyone hates anyway.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (x3YFz)

115 literally and specifically _do not know how a screwdriver works_

Who was it that infamously said: "When we hire high school graduates we know Johnny can't read.  The problem today is that Johnny can't be trusted with power tools."

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (L02KD)

116 The nation’s top military brass gathered in the Pentagon auditorium Monday to pull out their pens and sign a ceremonial document vowing to “create an inclusive environment that values diversity and fosters mutual respect and cooperation among all persons.” Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey led the signing of the 2014 Human Goals Charter: “the cornerstone document governing the Defense Department’s fair treatment of people, as well as its diversity and equity programs.” The document was updated this year to reflect the end of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy against gays serving openly in the military. “This ceremony, as has been noted, marks an important milestone in our efforts to ensure that the Department of Defense remains a place of progress, progress in opportunity for all people, military and civilian. Today, we reaffirm that our most important resource is our people,” Hagel said. “I know all the leaders in this room and all over the world share our belief that you take care of your people first, and to fulfill that commitment, we must ensure that every man and every woman in this department has the opportunity to succeed, excel and reach their full potential. That is the purpose of DOD’s Human Goals Charter.” Shit, this and common core and hair stylings on the Military? We are so fucked

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (t3UFN)

117 I was told there would be no math on the blog. Your old math was substandard.

Posted by: Matthew Yglesias at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (WX3R9)

118 It's all very simple, ace. If the educrats are successful in teaching your kid to read, then there won't be a need for "Reading Specialists" and the "Assistant Principal for Assistive Technologies" and the Deputy Assistant Principal for Assistive Technologies (Reading), and so on. They've got to protect their phony, baloney jobs. ....and I didn't get a harrumph out of that guy.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (yz6yg)

119 Mandy P, Ha! The school admins would faint if they saw our handwriting lessons. It's called "A Reason for Handwriting" and involves writing bible verses as the final lesson each week. And *gasp* it also involves cursive.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (hFL/3)

120 I still remember "Bridge A is 650 feet. Bridge B is 700 ft. Which is longer. Why?" So you don't fall into the river.

Posted by: Jiggly Stoat at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (QupBk)

121 THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Teacher at April 29, 2014 01:22 PM (qZ1gI)

122 It's f*****g arithmetic. It is a basic tool. Knowing how and why it works is a luxury best left to mathematicians.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Exactly.  I don't want my plumber to understand the metallurgy behind his wrench, I want him to fix the leak. 

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (4nR9/)

123 She has asked multiple times why they can't write the words and has been told that they don't do rote memorization anymore.

----

Sorry.... but that is just wrong.   Especially for the "basics" with young students.

I dont know how else you learn your ABC's or add and subtract tables *except* by rote memorization.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (nELVU)

124 High-performing kids begin to understand that 17+6 can be thought of as 7+6, plus ten.

The problem really comes when they start teaching dumb techniques. They require the kids to break apart the 6 and come up with 17 + 6 = 10 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 10 + 10 + 3 = 20 + 3 = 23. If they skip the step where they break down the 6 to extract the 3 that can be added to the 7 to come up with the 10, then they are not solving the problem in the approved manner.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (IN7k+)

125 I don't know if this is an urban myth but do any of you know about common core math problems where there is no right answer, or all the answers are correct? I thought the beauty of math was the one right outcome (answer).

Posted by: Seems legit at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (A98Xu)

126 Is there a math wizard present that can explain this to me....?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (gOoFi)

127 How widespread? Try 44 of 50 states widespread. Oh and yes Bill Gates is up to his filthy progressive oligarch eyeballs in this. Under the guise of creating a 21st century workforce. By which I am beginning to suspect he means dumb and easily influenced. If they don't know anything, you don't have to pay them anything.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (0HooB)

128 "Conservatives should band together in groups in their respective areas and form their own schools" That's actually brilliant, and should happen immediately.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (hFL/3)

129 118 I was told there would be no math on the blog.

Your old math was substandard. Posted by: Matthew Yglesias

Bad apples, as it were.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (4nR9/)

130 The nation’s top military brass gathered in the Pentagon auditorium Monday to pull out their pens and sign a ceremonial document vowing to “create an inclusive environment that values diversity and fosters mutual respect and cooperation among all persons.” Call me when they have "targets" (not quotas!!!) for the promotion of white people to Colonel.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:23 PM (yz6yg)

131 Or there really is a concerted effort to dumb down the population so that they are incapable of functioning while not sucking on the government teat. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:20 PM (QFxY5) That's be one hell of a trick. Destroy the economy by producing a populace incapable of functioning in it then running a welfare state based on...magic? I'm not saying they aren't crazy enough to try it. I'm just saying it's pretty obvious it only leads to riots and death. One wonders if Real Time Strategy games translate to any actual skill in that area...

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:24 PM (HDwDg)

132 Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 05:01 PM (noWW6) The Singapore method (which you can actually get curriculum for if you home school) works because it teaches to mastery. They cover the same material over and over and over until you can do it in your sleep. And only then do they move on to the next concept.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 01:24 PM (qFpRI)

133 120 Mandy P, Ha! The school admins would faint if they saw our handwriting lessons. It's called "A Reason for Handwriting" and involves writing bible verses as the final lesson each week. And *gasp* it also involves cursive. Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 05:22 PM (hFL/3) You are clearly engaged in child abuse. You'll be contacted by one of our agents soon.

Posted by: Child Protective Services at April 29, 2014 01:24 PM (mx5oN)

134 OK, one more time for the smug "I don't care my kids will go to private schools" folks. Yeah, you do care because all textbooks within 5 years will be common core compliant and as of 2015 all standardized tests will be as well. So, the SAT is being re-worked based on common core stuff. Oh and those of you saying "well it is math and English but not social studies". Wrong again, social studies is taught as a block with English now at least through middle school.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (+0txR)

135 Oops off whiny Jedi sock

Posted by: Buzzion at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (z/Ubi)

136 Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 05:23 PM (4nR9/ Ideally he'd know enough not to use lead sodder .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (HDwDg)

137 I was told there would be no math on the blog. Your old math was substandard. Posted by: Matthew Yglesias at April 29, 2014 05:22 PM (WX3R9) If you like your old math, you can keep your old math!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (t3UFN)

138

I watched my 11yo neice do a multication problem over the weekend

It took her 5 minutes to do 17x83

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (W6iIX)

139 The education system exists to condition people to obey. People leave high school having learned three important things. 'Everything is extremely complicated and I can't really understand it.' 'I should always listen to experts.' 'I am extremely intelligent and understand everything.' And, this is actually quite an accomplishment.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:25 PM (9W+0f)

140 42 minus 19

40 and 2 take away 10 and take away 9

40 minus 10 is 30

2 minus 9 is minus 7

but 9 is close to 10, so 10 and 2 is close to 0 so 0

wait . . .   

Posted by: Sphynx at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (OZmbA)

141 Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 05:23 PM (hFL/3) I have a PreK through 12 certificate, so I call dibs on the chalkboard.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (oMKp3)

142

114

Conservatives should band together in groups in their respective areas and form their own schools. One room schoolhouses were common back in the day. We could do it again.

 

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:21 PM (oMKp3)

 

-------------

 

You'd probably have to call it a 'study group' instead of a school.

 

Because if you call it a 'school', then you'd have the government crawling up your ass with all kinds of regulations.

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (emg5o)

143 Funny, they never told us *why* Shakespeare wrote but just that he did. Teach didn't feel a need or obligation on that part but rather that you simply understood that he did

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (gOoFi)

144 Why should I care if Johnny can read or not as long as he's banging his teacher?

Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (5UteM)

145 139 I watched my 11yo neice do a multication problem over the weekend It took her 5 minutes to do 17x83 Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (W6iIX) Good Lord.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 01:26 PM (mx5oN)

146 PGiS, Plus a lot of private schools are going CC compliant. Hell, a lot of homeschooling materials are CC compliant. Of course, at least with homeschooling you get to pick and choose what lessons you use.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (hFL/3)

147 >>>The problem really comes when they start teaching dumb techniques. They require the kids to break apart the 6 and come up with 17 + 6 = 10 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 10 + 10 + 3 = 20 + 3 = 23. If they skip the step where they break down the 6 to extract the 3 that can be added to the 7 to come up with the 10, then they are not solving the problem in the approved manner. part of my problem with this is that if you teach this as a Formal Algorithm, you have to lay out the rules in a very detailed manner. You can't wing things with an algorithm (just like you can't wing things in the standard algorithm -- you have to do the operations exactly as the algorithm says, carrying the one, etc., all that). And so what you wind up doing is teaching kids these very detailed Additional Algorithms For You To Memorize. This isn't the way people prefer to learn. As I've mentioned, I've been learning French. Not a single teaching method includes the concept of "maximizing the mental load required to create a simple sentence." It's all the opposite -- it's all minimizing the mental load. Then comes the elaboration, then comes the additional rules, then comes the special exceptions, and so on.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (/FnUH)

148 Destroy the economy by producing a populace incapable of functioning in it then running a welfare state based on...magic?

I'm not saying they aren't crazy enough to try it. I'm just saying it's pretty obvious it only leads to riots and death.

One wonders if Real Time Strategy games translate to any actual skill in that area...

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:24 PM (HDwDg)


-----


I present to you ...... Jenteel....  who cant read cursive ...... because.....


Thats real retarded ... sir.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (nELVU)

149 Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 05:22 PM (hFL/3) You know, in fairness, my odd hand/eye coordination problems actually made cursive harder and slower for me than print. I'm an odd duck though. (I can do it if need be, and I can read it, I just avoid it at all cost.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (HDwDg)

150 KBDaBear @kbdabear BREAKING! NY Rangers owner caught on tape saying; "I don't want you bringing any of your Canadian friends to the games" #tcot #banned

Posted by: kbdabear at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (aTXUx)

151 I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but it seems that whenever the educrats come up with some new way to teach kids English or math, the number of kids diagnosed with learning disabilities goes up, and we all know that teachers who work with kids with learning disabilities get paid a lot more. Just co-inkydink, I suppose

Posted by: mallfly at April 29, 2014 01:27 PM (bJm7W)

152 we installed a 250 gallon thingamahickey to gather rain water off the down spout of our house with the idea of using same to water our greenhouse stuff. I explained what it was to our general contractor and he was just baffled at how it worked. Now a high school physics student knows 1g/cm for water, and it's about 1.5m x 1.5m, and was full to about a meter. F=ma so you can, in your head, calculate the force. Way way more than enough to push it uphill a half meter or so. Guy was amazed that it worked. I was amazed he was a general contractor.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (x3YFz)

153 145 Why should I care if Johnny can read or not as long as he's banging his teacher? Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 05:26 PM (5UteM) And when she gets pregnant, she can get court-ordered child support from little Johnny, despite it being statutory rape.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (mx5oN)

154 OT/ but I see the poor exhausted Obama Women spent the weekend in a tony resort in VA. this weekend....

Posted by: Hello it's me Donna and I know nuthink! at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (9+ccr)

155 Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (+0txR) You got your rants in about this. Feel better?

Posted by: Buzzion at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (z/Ubi)

156 "Destroy the economy by producing a populace incapable of functioning in it then running a welfare state based on...magic? " I've see that movie. Idi-.........something.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (gOoFi)

157 My dad worked with me on multiplication flash cards until I could do them in my sleep. Too bad today's "educators" don't understand the value of some memorization before moving on to more advanced concepts.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth (@Teresa_Koch) at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (PZ6/M)

158 The African/Catholic positional numeral system is, like most things, extremely easy and could be understood easily if the people teaching it were not some combination of malefactorial and imbecilic.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:28 PM (9W+0f)

159 I'm just saying it's pretty obvious it only leads to riots and death.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:24 PM (HDwDg)

Your point?

Posted by: Lenin, Totsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. at April 29, 2014 01:29 PM (QFxY5)

160 Good Lord.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 05:26 PM (mx5oN)

 

she started drawing it out in a grid

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 01:29 PM (W6iIX)

161 But what I'm really good at is spatial estimation. I can estimate area and distance very well. Posted by: Soothsayer § I can throw a rock. Posted by: Jiggly Stoat When I was a teenager I could just look at something and tell it was a gram in weight.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 01:29 PM (KxQJE)

162 It's all the opposite -- it's all minimizing the mental load. And how's that working out for you? I disagree. Heavy lifting is good for the brain. It makes you strong.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:29 PM (8UCj3)

163 "We have a computer at my job at McDonalds that tells me what change to give."

Yes, and I'm about to be promoted to food prep, too.

Domo arigato!

Posted by: Mr. Roboto at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (noWW6)

164 Ideally he'd know enough not to use lead sodder .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (HDwDg)


----


*cough*  s o l d e r  *cough*



Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (nELVU)

165 Yes I do. I guess I had some rant in me after all

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (+0txR)

166 F=ma so you can, in your head, calculate the force. Way way more than enough to push it uphill a half meter or so.

It was my understanding that F=ma was the organization that screwed up the response to Katrina, because Boooooooosh.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (4nR9/)

167 4 fingers to the ounce.

Posted by: Jiggly Stoat at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (QupBk)

168 124 She has asked multiple times why they can't write the words and has been told that they don't do rote memorization anymore. ---- Sorry.... but that is just wrong. Especially for the "basics" with young students. I dont know how else you learn your ABC's or add and subtract tables *except* by rote memorization. Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 05:23 PM (nELVU) But that's the thing. They're not learning those addition and subtraction tables anymore. At all. They do not memorize those like we used to do. There is no drill and skill in my mom's school. Now, some teachers elsewhere may be able to get away with sneaking some of the older methods in. But the school my mom is at is considered an "at risk" school. Which basically means they've thrown a shitload of money into it. And with that funding comes all these education and curriculum "experts" that the district has hired to instruct and observe the teachers so they can be shown how to teach these new methods. If you're caught doing things the "old" way by one of these folks you're out of a damn job.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (qFpRI)

169 The African/Catholic positional numeral system is, like most things, extremely easy and could be understood easily if the people teaching it were not some combination of malefactorial and imbecilic. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 05:28 PM (9W+0f) WTF is the "The African/Catholic positional numeral system"? There's no 69?

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (yz6yg)

170 I am going through this with my daughter and the problem is just as described above. They aren't teaching them to add/subtract/multiply/divide so that they have a base of knowledge to work from. Instead, they are just throwing these nonsensical and confusing concepts at them without having done the foundational work necessary to help them understand.

Posted by: ejo at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (GXvSO)

171 When I was a teenager I could just look at something and tell it was a gram in weight. And spot dime bags and nickel bags?

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:30 PM (8UCj3)

172 152 I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but it seems that whenever the educrats come up with some new way to teach kids English or math, the number of kids diagnosed with learning disabilities goes up, and we all know that teachers who work with kids with learning disabilities get paid a lot more. Just co-inkydink, I suppose Posted by: mallfly at April 29, 2014 05:27 PM (bJm7W) Maybe that varies from state to state. It's not true in Wisconsin, other than the fact that additional credentials are often required to teach special ed, so your salary step would go up as your post grad credits accumulate.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:31 PM (oMKp3)

173 And when she gets pregnant, she can get court-ordered child support from little Johnny, despite it being statutory rape.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 29, 2014 05:28 PM (mx5oN)

 

 

That is an Adam Sandler movie

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 01:31 PM (W6iIX)

174 When I was a teenager I could just look at something and tell it was a gram in weight. ISWYDT.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 29, 2014 01:31 PM (eVPyN)

175 Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 05:30 PM (nELVU) I used my Foniks (I hate that word, it always fucks me up. Also I'm a miserable speller. I blame the school system. Or something.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at April 29, 2014 01:31 PM (HDwDg)

176 113 Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:16 PM (x3YFz) I still remember "Bridge A is 650 feet. Bridge B is 700 ft. Which is longer. Why?" Dude I've passed calc 2 and I still couldn't tell you "why" other than "that's the definition of longer." Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (x3YFz) Oh you again. Fair point. But still you can't just recycle crap. They tend to find fault in that. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:21 PM (HDwDg) Whats wrong with a solid affirmation that what we were doing was good enough, then man the bulwarks and demand anyone who wanted to change it provide extraordinary evidence. First, do no harm.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:31 PM (Aqvh6)

177 0 objects. Add 1 object. 1 object. Add 1 object. 2 objects. Add 1 object. 3 objects. Add 1 object. 4 objects. Add 1 object. 5 objects. Add 1 object. 6 objects. Add 1 object. 7 objects. Add 1 object. 8 objects. Add 1 object. 9 objects. Add 1 object.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:32 PM (9W+0f)

178 >>
It was my understanding that F=ma was the organization that screwed up the response to Katrina, because Boooooooosh.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 05:30 PM (4nR9/)<<




It was just Bush. He hate black people.

Posted by: Canye at April 29, 2014 01:32 PM (OZmbA)

179 then they are not solving the problem in the approved manner. part of my problem with this is that if you teach this as a Formal Algorithm, you have to lay out the rules in a very detailed manner. You can't wing things with an algorithm (just like you can't wing things in the standard algorithm -- you have to do the operations exactly as the algorithm says, carrying the one, etc., all that). And so what you wind up doing is teaching kids these very detailed Additional Algorithms For You To Memorize. This isn't the way people prefer to learn. As I've mentioned, I've been learning French. Not a single teaching method includes the concept of "maximizing the mental load required to create a simple sentence." It's all the opposite -- it's all minimizing the mental load. Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:27 PM (/FnUH) this has to be the most bass akward, stupidest teaching approach ever invented. "7+3=10!" "Wrong! Because 6+4 also = 10, dolt!" Descartes is spinning in his grave.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:32 PM (x3YFz)

180 wtf is a "number sentence"?   "Equation" is much more precise and efficient terminology.

Posted by: not the mama at April 29, 2014 01:32 PM (5dxeo)

181 Not a single teaching method includes the concept of "maximizing the mental load required to create a simple sentence." It's all the opposite -- it's all minimizing the mental load. Then comes the elaboration, then comes the additional rules, then comes the special exceptions, and so on. Yup, the same logic should apply to maths: every bit of it begins with 1+1=2 and works up from there. Logic, how does it work?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (0HooB)

182 Guy was amazed that it worked. I was amazed he was a general contractor.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:28 PM (x3YFz)

 

H2O=8LBS/ per gallon....

250 gallons in fookin heavy

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (W6iIX)

183 Whats wrong with a solid affirmation that what we were doing was good enough, then man the bulwarks and demand anyone who wanted to change it provide extraordinary evidence. Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (Aqvh6) What's wrong with that? It's the very essence of being conservative. That's what. And we simply. Cannot. Have. That.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (yz6yg)

184 So, what happens when you have 9 objects and you add 1 more object?

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (9W+0f)

185 Ace, completely agree, this is cargo cult math. If Montessori math were easy to explain, everyone would know about it, but it really is an excellent system, designed to start at age 3, which gives kids a deep understanding of numbers through physically working with materials that were designed by Maria Montessori. (Montessori loved math, and had wanted to be an engineer. She studied medicine instead because her father wouldn't let her study engineering. I think. This was around 1900 in Italy.) I searched Montessori Multiplication on Youtube and quite a bit came up. This first one is great because a little girl is explaining her work with the Multiplication Board. You can see that this is one child who will know the multiplication table. What you don't see is the years of work, probably at least three years, using Montessori's brilliant series of math materials before she got to this point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN5zKYXCtpY This second Youtube shows the "stamp game," which can be used for adding or multiplying. It uses little color-coded wooden squares, each of which stands for one, ten, or 100. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-ok-dlk7Q It does take training and the right materials to teach this way, but it works.

Posted by: Emily at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (7Rn+/)

186 My take on this reform is it will add at least two years to the curriculum just to get kids up to speed to enter a college or trade school. Genius.

Posted by: Chaos the Other Dark Meat at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (oDCMR)

187 WTF is the "The African/Catholic positional numeral system"? It's MGRS when read out by a Marine.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (Aqvh6)

188 I also think the "Why" kind of question really has to come out of the kid. I related in one of those older links my own discovery of the French verb "pencher," based upon deduction. This is a common thing. When you learn something, first you know The Rules, and you kind of just accept them, until one day, it starts to bug you, and you wonder, "WHY is it that way?" and you look it up. And at this point the Why is intensely interesting to you, because it HAS been bugging you. It wasn't spoon-fed to you. It had actually started to bother you. You had been employing these rules for some time, and wondering about them occasionally, until finally you were moved to investigate the Why. And so when you hear the answer to why? -- Because of this -- now it's something you're actually interested to know. Every good screenplay and book works on this principle. They don't give you the answers right in Act I, they give you the QUESTIONS, hoping you'll be intrigued enough by them that you'll enjoy the answers when they're presented in Act III. Bad screenplays and books tend to not understand this and give you far too large an information download in the opening, such that you're bored and feel force-fed the material. If they'd just given you a taste, and let you wonder about things, you'd have been interested to learn the answers later.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:33 PM (/FnUH)

189 165 Ideally he'd know enough not to use lead sodder .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (HDwDg)

----
*cough* s o l d e r *cough*

My wife has the best spatial reasoning I have ever encountered in a woman, and better than all but a very small subset of men, and I work around some truly intelligent people.  She spells like a 4th grader.  I'm not exaggerating.  It's a truly amazing contrast.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (4nR9/)

190 Dude I've passed calc 2 and I still couldn't tell you "why" other than "that's the definition of longer." Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (x3YFz) Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (Aqvh6) I didn't post that.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (x3YFz)

191 Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:27 PM (/FnUH)

You know the easiest way to learn French?

Date a hot French chick and ask her not to speak English to you.

http://tinyurl.com/kwz4r4p

Sorta NSFW

Posted by: Lenin, Totsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (QFxY5)

192 Oh yes, they are also no longer learning to spell. Just sound out the word and anything goes for the first 3 grades and then all of a sudden in grade 4 they are expected to have the correct spelling by some sort of magic, having never been taught it.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (+0txR)

193 out, damned sock!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (QFxY5)

194 Ah, now I get it. For the Republicans, passing obamnesty makes perfect sense...using Common Core Logic.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (8UCj3)

195 I've met some smart public school teachers and many, many public school teachers who think they know everything because they teach but they really don't know much at all.

Posted by: Sphynx at April 29, 2014 01:34 PM (OZmbA)

196 "My dad worked with me on multiplication flash cards until I could do them in my sleep."

Ding ding ding!

Unfortunately not a widely applicable model in the 21st century USA-SSR. Parental responsibility and involvement are _so_ backward and last century.

There was an absolutely priceless bit someone mentioned, about a particular abjectly ill-performing high school in Filthydelphia, overwhelmingly African-American in its student body, and how a television crew went there to document their official regular Parent-Teacher night.

Not a single parent showed up. Not one. In a school with nearly a thousand enrolled.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (noWW6)

197 135 OK, one more time for the smug "I don't care my kids will go to private schools" folks. Yeah, you do care because all textbooks within 5 years will be common core compliant and as of 2015 all standardized tests will be as well. So, the SAT is being re-worked based on common core stuff. Oh and those of you saying "well it is math and English but not social studies". Wrong again, social studies is taught as a block with English now at least through middle school. Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (+0txR) This is why we chose to home school. I seriously considered putting the kids into the parish school, but the diocese has hard-core embraced CC and won't hear a word against it. So we do our own thing and it's working out very nicely.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (qFpRI)

198 "she started drawing it out in a grid" 0_o

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (hFL/3)

199 "So, what happens when you have 9 objects and you add 1 more object?" Cheese.

Posted by: New Math at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (gOoFi)

200 Followed the Stephen PB link to xkcd and found a math test for Alextopia.

http://xkcd.com/135/

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (tf9Ne)

201 "Clearly," the answer is 10 objects. But what is 10? It is 1 group of 1 object more than 9 objects.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:35 PM (9W+0f)

202 So, what happens when you have 9 objects and you add 1 more object? You get busted for "Intent to distribute"?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 29, 2014 01:36 PM (eVPyN)

203 WTF is the "The African/Catholic positional numeral system"?

There's no 69?

Forget it.  He's on a roll.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:36 PM (4nR9/)

204 Knowing intuitively how to spell is kind of a thing, you either have it or you don't. Readers have it. Or at least they can recognize when the spelling is wrong.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:36 PM (oMKp3)

205

"The "Why?" is an interesting question. But note the order in which he introduced it: First he drilled the basics. Then, with his higher-performing students only, he introduced the Why?, not as the foundation of mathematical exploration (the foundation being rote memorization and drilling), but as the apex of it."

This is a well-known principle of pedagogy. The 'why?' questions come well after the 'fact' or 'what' questions. You can't even begin to ask why something is the way it is, if you dont even KNOW the way something is.

Also, it is actually insane to ask 'why 9 +3 is 12'. The 9 and 3 are facts, fixed numbers. the why is "why does + do what it does?  The New Math of the 60s tried to introduce set theory to explain this. It complicates the simple.

Sesame Street mode on --- so you have 9 raisins from Sally and 3 raisins from Peter. They give all their raisins to the teacher. how many raisins does the teacher have? (draw a picture of 9 raisins and a separate one of 3 raisins then put the picture together).  "Adding is putting things together" etc. 

But here's the kicker - YOU NEVER HAVE TO VERBALLY EXPLAIN THE WHY. It comes out when you ASK THE QUESTION as above. "you 9 raisins and add 3 raisins. How many do you have?" "you put a bucket of 8 apples in drawer that has 5 apples" etc.



Posted by: Hairy Reed at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (wT9UL)

206 169 124 She has asked multiple times why they can't write the words and has been told that they don't do rote memorization anymore. Sounds like a future private school teacher in the making.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (Aqvh6)

207 This is a common thing. When you learn something, first you know The Rules, and you kind of just accept them, until one day, it starts to bug you, and you wonder, "WHY is it that way?" and you look it up. And at this point the Why is intensely interesting to you, because it HAS been bugging you. It wasn't spoon-fed to you. It had actually started to bother you. You had been employing these rules for some time, and wondering about them occasionally, until finally you were moved to investigate the Why. Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:33 PM (/FnUH) Well put. why comes later, not before. You can't ask a child to describe something they haven't experienced. You don't ask someone to explain "why" nothing has happened yet.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (x3YFz)

208 wait, are they admitting New Math was a failed bit? which laboratory of democracy did they test Common Core in and where are spectacular results?

Posted by: X at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (KHo8t)

209 Knowing intuitively how to spell is kind of a thing, you either have it or you don't. Readers have it. Or at least they can recognize when the spelling is wrong. Know way. Srsly?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (eVPyN)

210 The base 9+1 i.e. 10 positional numerical system functions based on the principle of groups. Groups of 1, 10, 100, 1000, and so forth.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:37 PM (9W+0f)

211 First, do no harm.

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (Aqvh6)

Ah...a classic conservative approach.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:38 PM (QFxY5)

212
As long as the teachers keep having sex with the students, it should all work out.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 29, 2014 01:38 PM (hJauc)

213

189...If they'd just given you a taste, and let you wonder about things, you'd have been interested to learn the answers later.
 

 

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:33 PM (/FnUH)

 

------------

 

But Ace...questioning things is WRONG.

 

They are trying to discourage this behavior.

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 01:39 PM (emg5o)

214 She spells like a 4th grader. I'm not exaggerating. It's a truly amazing contrast.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 05:34 PM (4nR9/)


----


My oldest boy is like that.... the one I mentioned upthread having a language based IEP....   He can't spell for crap.... has trouble writing complete sentences....

.... but that kid can just do Math.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:39 PM (nELVU)

215 "As long as the teachers keep having sex with the students, it should all work out." I believe that is the multiplication part.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 01:39 PM (gOoFi)

216 Concretely, 1234 represents 4 groups of one, 3 groups of ten, 2 groups of one hundred, and 1 group of one thousand.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (9W+0f)

217 I'm wondering how much of this bullshit is being driven by self-important teachers who think that teaching basics is beneath them, so they bollocks up the concepts to fit their own needs rather than the kids'.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (TIIx5)

218 Ace, you are incorrectly assuming there are "high performing kids" and not just "kids." Once you correct this hierarchical mindset with a more egalitarian outlook that views IQ tests as racist/sexist......you'll understand why this teaching method is preferred by the Left.

Posted by: McNease at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (YtZB9)

219 MUMR Off topic, but yesterday it occurred to me that I know very little about you. What part of the country are you from, and what do you do for a living, if you don't mind me being nosy.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (oMKp3)

220 First, do no harm. Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (Aqvh6) Ah...a classic conservative approach. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:38 PM (QFxY5) I'm more of the "do harm and make sure you leave no evidence" variety.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (x3YFz)

221 192 Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:27 PM (/FnUH)

You know the easiest way to learn French?

Date a hot French chick and ask her not to speak English to you.

http://tinyurl.com/kwz4r4p

Sorta NSFW
Posted by: Lenin, Totsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot

Leave us not forget Mireille Belleau of French in Action.  Now a mom, and God bless her. 

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (4nR9/)

222 OT:  Just saw pic tweeted from the tornadoes.  Someone had the old "last payment" curse happen to their house.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (KNXgp)

223 They didn't test common core, it was designed by committee. And, at least for the math curriculum, came out so badly that some of the college professors that had been part of it are now denouncing it vociferously.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (+0txR)

224

"First comes the foundation, then comes the elaboration and sophistication."

BINGO ... but think of how BOOORING doing it the way it was done in 1895 is. No marxist subtexts! No diversity and rainforest math inclusions! No allowance for the needs of mastered degreed educators looking to write papers on some newfangled approach so they can submit it for a paid trip to  La Jolla or Orlando...

I think 50% of education malpractice is simply a result of over-funding education that leads to these mis-begotten 'innovations' that invariably are worse than the 'traditional ways' ... because, duh, the traditional ways have been field-tested for eons.

Posted by: Hairy Reed at April 29, 2014 01:40 PM (wT9UL)

225 "205 Knowing intuitively how to spell is kind of a thing, you either have it or you don't. Readers have it. Or at least they can recognize when the spelling is wrong. " Oh man, I couldn't disagree more. I was a Whole Language victim. Our spelling tests consisted of just writing down an entire paragraph that was dictated to us with the week's spelling words interspersed. We got credit for every word spelled correctly. You could literally misspell every single one of the new words, and get 90% on the tests. Subsequently, the red squiggly line is my friend.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2014 01:41 PM (hFL/3)

226 All I know is that ruler and times tables got us to the moon

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (t3UFN)

227 221 First, do no harm. Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (Aqvh6) Ah...a classic conservative approach. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:38 PM (QFxY5) I'm more of the "do harm and make sure you leave no evidence" variety. Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:40 PM (x3YFz) Neo-con

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (Aqvh6)

228

Without any knowledge of 'common core' , as a kid I always did math based on multiples of 10.

 

Your example

Like, just for this article, I tried to think, "How would I really get the answer for 42 - 19?"

 

I would have made it 42-20 = 22  +  1 = 23 .   Its instantaneous.

Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (m2CN7)

229 "As long as the teachers keep having sex with the students, it should all work out." I believe that is the multiplication part. Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 05:39 PM (gOoFi) Everyone who had a hot HS algebra teacher raise your hand. If you had zero fantasies about her and never stared at her girly bits, drop your hands. Thought so.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (x3YFz)

230 I would have made it 42-20 = 22 + 1 = 23 . Its instantaneous. Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 05:42 PM (m2CN7) ^5

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (x3YFz)

231 Every so many years the educational establishment goes through this same shit with math. It's nothing new. New Math. Chicago Math. It always ends up causing problems, because there are kids who "get" math, and kids who hate math. The kids who "get " math will handle this. The kids who hate math will become even more frustrated, and hate math even more than they did before.

Posted by: nerdygirl at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (ynL/v)

232 one of the most crippling things you can do to a child's mind is put a teacher up in front of him who doesn't understand what the hell it is she's supposed to be teaching him. Two teachers stick out in my mind on this subject. One was a math teacher in High School. He was there to be a football coach, and they stuck him in math as a reason to be there. The guy couldn't do anything but grade our work. We didn't learn a single thing from him. It was basically supervised self-driven learning. The second was in college. Our teacher was a dedicated C programmer who was two weeks ahead of the class in our Java book. He didn't know the philosophy of OOP, or most of the design patterns found in the Java library. He was basically just teaching us bad procedural programming with a couple of Java commands tacked on.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/s][/i][/b][/s] at April 29, 2014 01:42 PM (45N4D)

233 Dude sitting next to me at the stoplight seriously cannot sing.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 29, 2014 01:43 PM (eVPyN)

234 But, the fundamental principle underlying the positional numerical system is never explained verbally and concretely, or even philosophically, and people are trained to process things in a purely symbolical and grammatical manner without really understanding what the symbols represent and why the "rules of grammar" are as they are.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:43 PM (9W+0f)

235 Where's that commenter that always comes in on Common Core threads and tells us all that it's just a few rogue districts implementing it badly, that CC is the greatest thing since sliced bread?
 
Ahem, your stage awaits.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 29, 2014 01:43 PM (wNF3N)

236 Here's how I did the arithmetic problem. And I have a minor in math. Calculus, diff. equations, boolean algebra, etc.

42 - 19


19 plus 10 is 29, then plus 10 is 39, then count on my fingers 3 fingers to 42

So, 23.


Posted by: Sphynx at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (OZmbA)

237 Actually very little of common core came from the teachers. It was the governors of a small number of states being influenced by Bill Gates. Most actual classroom teachers had very little to do with the development of the curriculum. And, most state legislatures didn't actually vote for common core. An end run was done around them very neatly.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (+0txR)

238 Rene Descartes went into his favorite bar and the bar tender asked, "would you like your usual drink, Monsieur Descartes? " Descartes replied "I think not" and disappeared. "Yesterday they told us that five is 4+1 but today they are telling us that five is 3 + 2. Now you tell me 5 is 6 - 1." What about tomorrow. WHAT ABOUT TOMORROW!!!

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (fwhY3)

239 223 OT: Just saw pic tweeted from the tornadoes. Someone had the old "last payment" curse happen to their house. Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 05:40 PM (KNXgp) Was that the house in Arkansas that got completely swept away? If so, it belongs to a family of a mom, a dad, and nine kids. The dad and two of the daughters were killed. He worked for Family Life Today, an organization associated with Campus Crusade for Christ. His name is Rob Tittle.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (oMKp3)

240 Somewhere out there on teh Intarwebz is a thingy where kids give answers to questions. The one that gave me a chuckle was, "What ended in 1894?" A: 1893

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (0HooB)

241 The Missouri House has passed a measure to drop Common Core standards. Its gone to the State Senate where who knows what will happen.

Posted by: --- at April 29, 2014 01:44 PM (MMC8r)

242

Liberals used to say....Question Everything.

 

But now, now that they're in power and controlling everything...

"You must not question Authority!"

 

The Left has truly become that which they used to rail against.

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 01:45 PM (emg5o)

243 200 "So, what happens when you have 9 objects and you add 1 more object?" Cheese. Posted by: New Math at April 29, 2014 05:35 PM (gOoFi) Your the guy who does the 6.2 budget!

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 01:45 PM (Aqvh6)

244 >>>I'm wondering how much of this bullshit is being driven by self-important teachers who think that teaching basics is beneath them, so they bollocks up the concepts to fit their own needs rather than the kids'. i think that plays into it, that they don't want to think "I'm just drilling kids, leading them in rote-memorization, I want to teach them how to THINK." Two things: 1. It is almost impossible to "teach someone how to think." Even these CC techniques are themselves simply rotely-memorized and drilled algorithms. 2. To the extent you CAN teach someone how to actually THINK, I think you need to be 1, really good at it yourself, and 2, and intuitive, natural-born instructor, just someone who innately understands the process of teaching. In other words, I do not think a random assortment of lower-level civil servants will tend to have any skill at such a task. Some? Of course. But I do not think you can draft a new crop of teachers every year and teach them so much about thinking itself that they will become capable of teaching thinking. One teacher who was on the ball (I did have a few) taught me about the latin etymology of "education." "E" like "ex" means "out of," "duc-" is a root that means to lead. So education is "lead something out of someone." To draw out thinking. But you can't put thinking in someone. You can only draw it out.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:45 PM (/FnUH)

245 When processes are complicated, it's because the designer or engineer of the process wants to feel smart. When the processes are simple it's because they want others to learn or be able to deliver a desired result.

Posted by: MJ at April 29, 2014 01:45 PM (oari7)

246
"WTF is the "The African/Catholic positional numeral system"?

There's no 69?"

But there is LXIX, right?

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 29, 2014 01:46 PM (wT9UL)

247 150 x 150. Whaddya do? 100 x 150, add 2 zeros, halve the result, add it. Done. Depends on how your brain works. Over time you get different methods for handling equations in your mental toolbox. Picking the right tool for the job is the valuable skill, not the actual math.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:46 PM (x3YFz)

248 Somewhere out there on teh Intarwebz is a thingy where kids give answers to questions.

The one that gave me a chuckle was, "What ended in 1894?"

A: 1893

-----


Lol

144= 12x

Find X


X<-------------  it's right THERE

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:46 PM (nELVU)

249 Natural human thinking is not symbolical and grammatical. Thinking in purely symbolical and grammatical terms is unnatural. And, more interestingly, it retards both learning and thinking. And gaining true insight into anything.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:46 PM (9W+0f)

250 Liberals used to say....Question Everything. But now, now that they're in power and controlling everything... "You must not question Authority!" The Left has truly become that which they used to rail against. Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 05:45 PM (emg5o) All the while, they're too stupid to recognize the irony.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:47 PM (x3YFz)

251 Maybe that varies from state to state. It's not true in Wisconsin, other than the fact that additional credentials are often required to teach special ed, so your salary step would go up as your post grad credits accumulate. Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:31 PM (oMKp3) _________ That is such a huge scam. All school districts pull this shit. Get a few extra credits, you get more money. Who benefits? The colleges of course as they have a never end stream of life long students. It's a good deal for teachers of course...pay $1000 for some bullshit class and you get a $1000/year raise which will be with you for 20 years. It's a straight up racket where tax dollars go directly to education faculties, and then a substantial portion of the money goes to Democrats/Unions who lobby for higher teacher salaries.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:47 PM (0LHZx)

252 gosh. unions + other people's money x math = fail unions + other people's money x reading = fail unions + other people's money x welfare = fail unions + other people's money x poverty = fail why?

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at April 29, 2014 01:47 PM (LWu6U)

253 Ever notice that the one area for no-holds-barred experimentation is the field of education? When you keep with the New Paradigms and you never see improvement in results, wouldn't you think to maybe stick with the tried-and-true? (If you were really concerned about education, that is.)

Posted by: --- at April 29, 2014 01:48 PM (MMC8r)

254 Natural human thinking is not symbolical and grammatical. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 05:46 PM (9W+0f) That's not true. In fact, that is very very far from true.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:48 PM (oMKp3)

255 The one that gave me a chuckle was, "What ended in 1894?" A: 1893 ----- Lol 144= 12x Find X X<------------- it's right THERE Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 05:46 PM (nELVU) I'd hire both of them.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:48 PM (x3YFz)

256 In the following equation : 10x + 3y = 0

Solve for sadness.

Posted by: COMMON CORE at April 29, 2014 01:48 PM (5UteM)

257 Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:44 PM (oMKp3)


No ma'am.  This one was in Louisville, MS.  There was another heartbreaker that I saw.  A University of Alabama swimmer, John Servati, was killed last night by a tornado in Tuscaloosa.  His last tweet was to "Keep Tupelo (MS) in your prayers."

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:49 PM (KNXgp)

258 x and y = 0

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:49 PM (0LHZx)

259 "The problem really comes when they start teaching dumb techniques. They require the kids to break apart the 6 and come up with 17 + 6 = 10 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 10 + 10 + 3 = 20 + 3 = 23. If they skip the step where they break down the 6 to extract the 3 that can be added to the 7 to come up with the 10, then they are not solving the problem in the approved manner. "

LORDY!

It's simple
1. memorize all single digit additions.
2. learn the carry rule.
e.g. 17 +6: 6+7=13 so '3' and carry 1, the 1 carry adds to 1 to get '2'. = 23
3. apply ad infinitum.
A second grader can add 1,223,622 + 2,674,674 if taught right.

Stupid people make the simple complex. Common core is stupid.

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 29, 2014 01:49 PM (wT9UL)

260 I'll give you 39 cents for two paradigms

Posted by: Sphynx at April 29, 2014 01:49 PM (OZmbA)

261 Ace, the phrase that is the buzzword du jour in education circles these days is "critical thinking". They want to teach students to be critical thinkers, a lot of common core stuff plays into this desire. So, yes, one of their goals is to teach kids how to think.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:50 PM (+0txR)

262 Natural human thinking is not symbolical and grammatical. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 05:46 PM (9W+0f) That's not true. In fact, that is very very far from true. Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:48 PM (oMKp3) it's completely symbolical, specifically for men. Relational. How do you know what a chair is? Well, you have to have seen one, first.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:50 PM (x3YFz)

263
Jesus - it's the same old New Math, all over again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vetg7vWitTU

Posted by: Brown Line at April 29, 2014 01:50 PM (VrNoa)

264 Most natural human thought is fundamentally concrete. And the tools human beings develop are also fundamentally concrete. And can therefore be understood more easily in concrete terms. Especially at the beginning of the learning process, and when the tool is a basic and fundamental tool.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:50 PM (9W+0f)

265 263 Ace, the phrase that is the buzzword du jour in education circles these days is "critical thinking". They want to teach students to be critical thinkers, a lot of common core stuff plays into this desire. So, yes, one of their goals is to teach kids how to think. Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 05:50 PM (+0txR) _________ Critical Thinking 101: Obama is awesome. Anyone who says otherwise is a racist evil homophobic racist. Think about it...critically.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:51 PM (0LHZx)

266 >>>150 x 150. Whaddya do? 100 x 150, add 2 zeros, halve the result, add it. Done. ... yeah I happen to remember 15 x 15 is 225 so I guess 22,500? that seems really high... okay I did the Plausibility Check and I know 100 x 100 is 10,000 so it's not that high at all. I do think it's helpful to teach kids things like ballparking and Plausibility Checks, to see if their number is anything close to remotely possible. Kids do have to be taught this sort of thing. They'll divide, like, 355 by 71 and they'll come up with something like 223.5, and you''ll be like, "Can't you see that that's not even in the realm of possiblities?" And they can't, because these numbers seem completely abstract and arbitrary. So you do have to do some teaching to teach kids these numbers are actually kind of tangible. 335 divided by 71 must be something less than ten, because ten times 71 is 710. That sort of thing.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:51 PM (/FnUH)

267 I aked my 11yo neice to sign her name in cursive and she couldn't either

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 29, 2014 01:51 PM (W6iIX)

268 150 x 150

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:46 PM (x3YFz)

Perfect example of why rote learning is of vital importance.

Learn the multiplication tables to 20 x 20.

Memorize them. No understanding needed.

15 x 15 = 225. Add the zeros onto the number.

22500.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 01:51 PM (QFxY5)

269 Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 05:49 PM (KNXgp) That is so sad. Thanks for telling me about him. I'll remember his family on my prayers.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 01:51 PM (oMKp3)

270 Today was the first time I looked at Vox. Wow, does it suck. It's so confident, yet so wrong.

Posted by: MJ at April 29, 2014 01:52 PM (oari7)

271 x and y = 0 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 05:49 PM (0LHZx) x and y = male of the species (you're welcome, biologists)

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:52 PM (x3YFz)

272 They want to teach students to be critical thinkers, a lot of common core stuff plays into this desire. So, yes, one of their goals is to teach kids how to think.

As long as you don't question global warming, or Al Sharpton's head.

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 01:52 PM (4nR9/)

273 But contemporary "education" "reduces" everything to abstractions and rules for manipulating those abstractions.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:52 PM (9W+0f)

274
Remainders.

I bet they don't teach remainders when doing long division any more....

Fuck Im old.

And git off my lawn.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (nELVU)

275 I asked my 11yo nephew to sign his name in cursive. He said “fuck you”. I accepted.

Posted by: Harry Reid at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (WX3R9)

276 I bet they don't teach remainders when doing long division any more.... Fuck Im old. And git off my lawn. Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 05:53 PM (nELVU) ______________ I learned remainders in the 80s Wait does that mean I'm old too? FUUUUCK

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (0LHZx)

277

246...One teacher who was on the ball (I did have a few) taught me about the latin etymology of "education."

 

 

"E" like "ex" means "out of," "duc-" is a root that means to lead.

 

 

So education is "lead something out of someone."

 

 

To draw out thinking.

 

 

But you can't put thinking in someone. You can only draw it out.

 

 

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 05:45 PM (/FnUH) 

 

------------

 

Which is basically...The Socratic Method of Teaching.

 

The Socratic Method used to be thought of as the gold standard of teaching.

 

Ask questions...get your students to think.

 

Nowadays, they don't even teach who Socrates was.

 

They don't want kids to develop critical thinking skills.

They want a population of Sheep.

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (emg5o)

278 99 She has asked multiple times why they can't write the words and has been told that they don't do rote memorization anymore. I don't even want to get started on the stuff she tells me about math. The crap going on in schools right now is crazy. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 05:19 PM (qFpRI) ---- Good God, writing things out has been shown to be one of the best ways to memorize them, and it gives structure to your ideas. So, nobody writes anymore, and nobody seems to read anymore...are we just telling each other stories around the fire now? I've been buying old textbooks out of nostalgia and an appreciation for their elegant writing, but now I feel almost like a curator for cultural continuity. Anybody else feel like a librarian for the post-crapocalypse world?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (QBm1P)

279 They don't mean critical thinking like we mean it. As a matter of fact, as my son has well learned, if you do demonstrate actual critical thinking skills that often does not go well for you in the classroom.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 01:53 PM (+0txR)

280 >>>Natural human thinking is not symbolical and grammatical. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 05:46 PM (9W+0f) That's not true. In fact, that is very very far from true. ... this is actually a pretty good question and I think it comes down to what you consider "thought." I think higher thinking is in fact verbal, grammatical, and symbolic. But that's not the only kind of thinking, and in fact some research suggests it's not even the most powerful -- even as regards complex thinking. That book "Blink" is all about the idea of a separate system of unconscious thinking we're only barely cognizant of, which is frequently more accurate that highly logical thinking.

Posted by: ace at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (/FnUH)

281 That is so sad. Thanks for telling me about him. I'll remember his family on my prayers.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:51 PM (oMKp3)



Just found a story about him.  Died saving his girlfriend.  http://tinyurl.com/n94q9vs

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (KNXgp)

282 Hell, most kids have cell phones with calculators on them, why learn math at all?

Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (5UteM)

283 Is 'Critical Thinking' like 'Critical Theory?' Because that's just Leftist Deconstructionism.

Posted by: --- at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (MMC8r)

284 Perfect example of why rote learning is of vital importance. Learn the multiplication tables to 20 x 20. Memorize them. No understanding needed. 15 x 15 = 225. Add the zeros onto the number. 22500. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:51 PM (QFxY5) key idea here is your brain does it your way, my brain has built in shortcuts and methods I use, you do it with rote memorization. Either way: quick, simple and correct. Same answer. So it doesn't matter.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (x3YFz)

285 Wait does that mean I'm old too?

FUUUUCK

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 29, 2014 05:53 PM (0LHZx)


---


welcome to the club .... heh

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (nELVU)

286 I've been buying old textbooks out of nostalgia and an appreciation for their elegant writing, but now I feel almost like a curator for cultural continuity. Anybody else feel like a librarian for the post-crapocalypse world? Ever think about starting a monastery in the desert?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 29, 2014 01:54 PM (WX3R9)

287 "Wow, does it suck. It's so confident, yet so wrong."

In many ways, this is the story of Obama.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:55 PM (noWW6)

288 When processes are complicated, it's because the designer or engineer of the process wants to feel smart. What? Sometimes processes are complicated because they are. Controlled nuclear fission? It's a bit complicated. A modern operating system? It's a bit complicated.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/s][/i][/b][/s] at April 29, 2014 01:56 PM (45N4D)

289 In many ways, this is the story of Obama. ------------------------- Well, they're both sponsored by GE.

Posted by: MJ at April 29, 2014 01:56 PM (oari7)

290 239 Actually very little of common core came from the teachers. It was the governors of a small number of states being influenced by Bill Gates. Most actual classroom teachers had very little to do with the development of the curriculum. And, most state legislatures didn't actually vote for common core. An end run was done around them very neatly. Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at April 29, 2014 05:44 PM (+0txR) And that's the worst part about it. The way it was implemented has to do with the federal funding. RTTT and NCLB funding are all tied to implementation of CC. In order for a state to even submit an application for those grants (which they all apply for) they had to implement CC to qualify. And that's also why it's so hard to get rid of it. The Feds dangle all that sweet tax money in front of the states and no one wants to be accused of losing money for their state's school system.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 01:56 PM (qFpRI)

291 Today was the first time I looked at Vox. Wow, does it suck. It's so confident, yet so wrong. Posted by: MJ at April 29, 2014 05:52 PM (oari7) Which is why Klein, Kliff, and Yglesias are so insufferable. They are impervious to reality. Their whole schtick is the intellectual equivalent of a kid endlessly screaming, "I know you are, but what am I?!?!"

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:56 PM (yz6yg)

292 without New Math a whole lot of people would be a whole lot better at math. who benefits?

Posted by: X at April 29, 2014 01:56 PM (KHo8t)

293 What are +,-,*, and /? Abstract symbols? Abstract symbols representing abstract operations to be performed on other abstractions? Pieces in a meaningless abstract mental game of a purely symbolic nature to be played for "points" and the praise of imbeciles?

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 01:57 PM (9W+0f)

294 Incidentally, are the phrases "it's quarter of" and "it's quarter past" going the way of the Dodo? I think so.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:57 PM (8UCj3)

295 How do you know what a chair is? Well, you have to have seen one, first. Heh. When I was in HS, I had a few older buddies in college. One of them introduced me to a funny mind game by pointing at a table and saying, "You don't know what that is." "Yes I do, it's a table." "What's it made of?" "Wood and metal." "What are the wood and metal made of?" You see where this is going. Eventually, I couldn't answer his question, which proved him right. Learning can be fun and anyone with half a brain never stops learning. Children today seem to know they're being taught a goodly amount of bullshit, hence their disinterest in education(which is even present in my little G'Dette. She's 8.)

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 01:57 PM (0HooB)

296 Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 05:35 PM

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That's too bad, ours rejected it.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 29, 2014 01:57 PM (hJauc)

297

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 05:51 PM (QFxY5)

 

150 x 28

 

How is your memorization going to solve that ?

Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 01:57 PM (m2CN7)

298 "As a matter of fact, as my son has well learned, if you do demonstrate actual critical thinking skills that often does not go well for you in the classroom."

Thank goodness he's learning this before getting to a modern university.

As I keep having to remind our younger family members, college is no longer about your ability to competently critique concepts. It's about your ability to passively parrot propaganda. And you had better hone that skill if you want top grades.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 01:58 PM (noWW6)

299 Today was the first time I looked at Vox. Wow, does it suck. It's so confident, yet so wrong. It's based on Common Core.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 01:58 PM (/N0b9)

300 Hell, most kids have cell phones with calculators on them, why learn math at all? Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 05:54 PM (5UteM) Heh... well. I tell my students that during exams they're free to use their phones, ipads, textbooks. I actually pair them up for exams so they can call a friend. I change pairs every exam. If you don't understand the underlying first principles (I write all the test questions myself, usually a week prior to the exam)... you will fail. Horribly. now, this is university, not K-12, so the approach is a bit different.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 01:58 PM (x3YFz)

301 "But you can't put thinking in someone. You can only draw it out.

Posted by: ace"


Exactly that, and here's the thing.


This common core stuff has at its heart standardization - standardization of the teaching methods and processes.


Now that's good because standardization brings a minimum level of quality to a process.  But it is also bad because it sets limits on the maximums that any implementation of that process can actually achieve.


They want a template that can be used to ram all students through, coast to coast.  


When you standardize on these things you get the lowest common denominator.  It's like reading Time magazine, it's news written for junior high school, and it's all they can expect their audience to grok.


I'm afraid you will never be able to achieve excellence without customization.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at April 29, 2014 01:58 PM (NnjE8)

302 What we really need is a math course that teaches these young dummies how to negotiate a cash transaction, (i.e., return correct change), since some of them will end up at McDonalds or Starbucks.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 01:59 PM (8UCj3)

303 Which is why Klein, Kliff, and Yglesias are so insufferable.

They are impervious to reality.

Their whole schtick is the intellectual equivalent of a kid endlessly screaming, "I know you are, but what am I?!?!"

No doubt, however this clever rejoinder is infinitely less efficacious than the inestimable "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say, bounces off me, and sticks to you".  Hah!

Posted by: Paul Krugman at April 29, 2014 01:59 PM (4nR9/)

304 I've said it here before, but it bears repeating: On parent's night, my 11th grade daughter's algebra II teacher said flat-out that it's good for the kids to be confused and not understand anything, because it's SO AWESOME when they finally figure it out, because there are STUDIES that say so. (Mrs. Jakeman restrained me from punching her lights out.) What they ignore is the fact that you can only go so long without understanding something before you are hopelessly lost, and have absolutely no foundation to build on. My daughter isn't a rocket scientist, but she is smart and wants to do well. CC is making that extraordinarily difficult. I was decent at math, and do my best to help her, but the textbook is borderline unintelligible and filled with errors.

Posted by: jakeman at April 29, 2014 01:59 PM (5XLXU)

305 How is your memorization going to solve that ?

Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 05:57 PM (m2CN7)

15 x 20 = 300
15 x 8 = 120

300 + 120 = 420
Add the zero to the end.

4,200

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 02:00 PM (QFxY5)

306 Oh, and I pair them up for a reason: when you get into the workforce, you will be working with someone on every problem. You will have access to textbooks and the internet. I present problems that have to be solved by thinking based on fundamentals.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (x3YFz)

307

285 Is 'Critical Thinking' like 'Critical Theory?' Because that's just Leftist Deconstructionism.

 

Well, if you use the Leftist definition of the word...'Critical'...then, yes.

 

That's the thing.

This is why the Left has been so busy 'redefining' things.

 

The Left has created it's own standard of what constitutes 'critical' and 'critical thinking'.

 

Which is basically judging how well something conforms to their way of thinking.

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (emg5o)

308 this is university, not K-12, so the approach is a bit different.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 05:58 PM (x3YFz)

So....you aren't at Harvard.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (QFxY5)

309 289 Ever think about starting a monastery in the desert? Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 29, 2014 05:54 PM (WX3R9) ------------------ My post-apoc fantasy is more in line with a Frazetta poster than a monastery -- unless it's like a rockin' Shaolin style monastery. Then hell yeah.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (QBm1P)

310 Ace is just a scribbler with too much drink in him.

Posted by: Graham Greene at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (8c12T)

311 284 Hell, most kids have cell phones with calculators on them, why learn math at all? Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 05:54 PM (5UteM) I have actually, no shit, encountered that very argument. And I am ashamed to say it came from a fellow home schooler. A relative of mine home schooled (via "un schooling") her two boys. The oldest one is a genius, but largely a self-taught one. The youngest would be a hobo if he wasn't insanely musically talented. Anyway, she told me she didn't bother teaching her kids to read or do math because they'd learn it when they decided it was worth learning. And furthermore that I was nuts to teach the formal algorithms as well as cursive handwriting, etc to my children because everything's on a computer or a smart phone nowadays and they don't need to learn how to do these things themselves.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (qFpRI)

312 No. They are fundamentally-concrete operations or actions performed on fundamentally-concrete objects. And fundamentally-concrete tools. Fundamentally-concrete tools which solve fundamentally-concrete problems. And they can actually be understood better and more easily in fundamentally-concrete terms.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 02:01 PM (9W+0f)

313 As I keep having to remind our younger family members, college is no longer about your ability to competently critique concepts. It's about your ability to passively parrot propaganda. And you had better hone that skill if you want top grades. You bet. Sometimes my daughter would write two papers. The one the teacher expected, and what she termed "the right one". She would do this with test questions too. Provide the answer the teacher wanted, then attach an addendum as to what she actually believed to be true. But you have to be exceedingly well prepared to undertake this, and impervious to sneers.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 02:02 PM (oMKp3)

314 So....you aren't at Harvard. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 06:01 PM (QFxY5) no, I don't teach officers or other small children.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 02:02 PM (x3YFz)

315 nyway, she told me she didn't bother teaching her kids to read or do math because they'd learn it when they decided it was worth learning. And furthermore that I was nuts to teach the formal algorithms as well as cursive handwriting, etc to my children because everything's on a computer or a smart phone nowadays and they don't need to learn how to do these things themselves. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 06:01 PM (qFpRI) Right up until they get a job and their boss tells them, "Your handwriting sucks. I can't read it. Do something about that."

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:03 PM (yz6yg)

316 Heh... well. I tell my students that during exams they're free to use their phones, ipads, textbooks. ...If you don't understand the underlying first principles... you will fail. Horribly.

Back when I was taking quantum mechanics, the tests were all open book.  If you didn't understand the principles, Einstein and Pauli themselves couldn't pull you through.  You learned fast to learn well in advance, or you didn't survive.   Of course, we didn't have cell phones.....

Posted by: pep at April 29, 2014 02:03 PM (4nR9/)

317 no, I don't teach officers or other small children. Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 06:02 PM (x3YFz) You remember what "NCO" stands for, right? No Chance Outside.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:03 PM (yz6yg)

318 "What we really need is a math course that teaches these young dummies how to negotiate a cash transaction, (i.e., return correct change), since some of them will end up at McDonalds or Starbucks."

Those skills have been automated away.

I occasionally tell counter clerks what the total for my purchase will be, with various percentage discounts included, before it is actually rung up. This never fails to produce utter incredulity.

And often these are not complex discounts. Round-number multiples of ten.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 02:04 PM (noWW6)

319 + adds the objects on the right to the objects on the left. - removes the objects on the right from the objects on the left.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 02:04 PM (9W+0f)

320 Anyway, she told me she didn't bother teaching her kids to read or do math because they'd learn it when they decided it was worth learning. And furthermore that I was nuts to teach the formal algorithms as well as cursive handwriting, etc to my children because everything's on a computer or a smart phone nowadays and they don't need to learn how to do these things themselves.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 06:01 PM (qFpRI)


----


One of these days .... a historic solar flare is gonna knock us all off grid for a week and .... alot a people are going to learn the hard way how truly uneducated we as a society have become.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 02:04 PM (nELVU)

321

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 06:00 PM (QFxY5)

 

eh I meant  it to be 250 x 28  but I see that you would just break it down to how many steps you need to get to your memorization table.  

Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 02:04 PM (m2CN7)

322 One of these days .... a historic solar flare is gonna knock us all off grid for a week and .... alot a people are going to learn the hard way how truly uneducated we as a society have become. Posted by: fixerupper at April 29, 2014 06:04 PM (nELVU) Oh, it will be more than a week.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:05 PM (yz6yg)

323 Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 29, 2014 06:03 PM (yz6yg) Or the computer goes down and they can't add two and two. I never want my kids to be in that kind of situation. Which is why I teach them how to do it the old-fashioned way.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 02:05 PM (qFpRI)

324 A link to Common Core math problems : http://tinyurl.com/mszruy4

Posted by: Dr Spank at April 29, 2014 02:05 PM (5UteM)

325 Union goons in charge of learning our children. What, just what could go wrong with that?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 29, 2014 02:06 PM (HVff2)

326 Where's that commenter that always comes in on Common Core threads and tells us all that it's just a few rogue districts implementing it badly, that CC is the greatest thing since sliced bread?

I think that's the commenter 'Zombie John Gotti'.

IIRC

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 29, 2014 02:06 PM (I8YZX)

327

'Standards' are only a good thing...if they are High Standards.

 

The Standards that the leftist progs are establishing are merely Standards of Conformity.

 

 

Posted by: wheatie at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (emg5o)

328 Or the computer goes down and they can't add two and two. I never want my kids to be in that kind of situation. Which is why I teach them how to do it the old-fashioned way. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 06:05 PM (qFpRI) I used to get the same arguments from Lieutenants about learning how to read maps the "old" way instead of flipping on GPS. "The Chinese have knocked out all our GPS satellites. Food is that way. Here's your map. See you in a week."

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (yz6yg)

329 "This common core stuff has at its heart standardization - standardization of the teaching methods and processes. ... When you standardize on these things you get the lowest common denominator."

Yep. And let's recall where the tap root of all the Common Core crap is.

It's in No Child Left Behind.

A big round of applause for George W. Bush, ladies and gentlemen!

Protip: when Ted Kennedy is solidly behind your "education reform", it's an unambiguous sign that the actual amount of reform it contains is zero.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (noWW6)

330 Common Whore

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (8UCj3)

331 >>What we really need is a math course that teaches these young dummies how to negotiate a cash transaction, (i.e., return correct change), since some of them will end up at McDonalds or Starbucks. Posted by: Soothsayer when I worked at McDs in high school, we calculated your entire ticket including sales tax in our heads while filling your order. only the total was entered in the register.

Posted by: X at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (KHo8t)

332 Ever notice that more often than not, an older relative or friend has beautiful handwriting ? I love getting cards and letters addressed in elegant longhand. My mother's handwriting should be in a museum. And she only went to school till tenth grade.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (oMKp3)

333 Or the computer goes down and they can't add two and two. I never want my kids to be in that kind of situation. Which is why I teach them how to do it the old-fashioned way.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 06:05 PM (qFpRI)



It's very sadly amusing the reactions I get from young cashiers when I calculate my change due quicker than they can punch it into the register.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 02:07 PM (KNXgp)

334 220 MUMR Off topic, but yesterday it occurred to me that I know very little about you. What part of the country are you from, and what do you do for a living, if you don't mind me being nosy. Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 05:40 PM (oMKp3) There's a reason for that Grammie. He's not here to interact. He's here to do his idiotic insane stream of conscious commenting that no one wants to read and get pissed when they catch that it's a comment by him, or to post his bigotry against Asians, or if it's the weekend to be an insulting jack ass about the specific topic threads.

Posted by: Buzzion at April 29, 2014 02:08 PM (ovJAv)

335 but you know, people who try to avoid hard work do usually wind up doing more work than they would if they just did the hard work they were trying to avoid in the first place.)

Sssshhh, don't tell or we're out of work.

Posted by: Programmers everywhere[/i][/b][/s] at April 29, 2014 02:08 PM (DL2i+)

336 That book "Blink" is all about the idea of a separate system of unconscious thinking we're only barely cognizant of, which is frequently more accurate that highly logical thinking. Let's get Metaphysical for a moment. The human intellect is capable of knowing both with and without employing thought. In fact, there was a saying from my yoot, "Your thoughts are not your own," implying that it's not you doing the thinking, but some separate form of spirit which may not have your best interests in mind, so to speak. Try to control your whirlwind of thoughts and see how much luck you have. Some Christian scholars propose that the "marriage" in the New Testament is a spiritual blending of intellects, the human and the Divine, resulting in something known as "understanding," where one knows something without taking thought. Another name for it is "intuition," and it's not just for women. Knowing something without knowing how you know it is sometimes referred to as "faith."

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:08 PM (0HooB)

337 Alright, you're all slacking. 300+ comments and no civil war references or boobs.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:08 PM (8UCj3)

338 335 Ever notice that more often than not, an older relative or friend has beautiful handwriting ? I love getting cards and letters addressed in elegant longhand. My mother's handwriting should be in a museum. And she only went to school till tenth grade. Posted by: grammie winger at April 29, 2014 06:07 PM (oMKp3 My kids say mine looks like I went to med school. No not the case. I hated handwriting/penmanship as a child in parochial school. And Lutheran teachers would smack you as good as Catholic nuns.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 29, 2014 02:08 PM (HVff2)

339

Posted by: torquewrench at April 29, 2014 06:07 PM (noWW6)

 

You have BDS  worse than any liberal I know.  Well maybe not as much as D-Lamp.

Posted by: polynikes at April 29, 2014 02:09 PM (m2CN7)

340 You remember what "NCO" stands for, right? No Chance Outside. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 29, 2014 06:03 PM (yz6yg) You might be one of 10 that ever snarked back! Nicely done. When's your tee time?

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 02:09 PM (x3YFz)

341 remember the teacher from NH AMY SMART? I wonder if she still looks do-able today.

Posted by: Soothsayerwing Plover § at April 29, 2014 02:09 PM (8UCj3)

342
What would be nice is if the govt would get out of education and we could all just choose on our own how to best educate kids (without the associated taxes and federal agents shooting at you).

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 29, 2014 02:09 PM (hJauc)

343 will have accomplished precisely what it was intended to accomplish, to wit, solving the problem of the bureaucracy being criticized for failure.

OTOH the endless opportunities for massive graft are nice also.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 29, 2014 02:09 PM (DL2i+)

344 My ex-calculus professor now shows slides of engineering disasters to her class on the first day. She then explains that none of the problems on her exams can be solved with a hand held calculator no matter how advanced.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 02:10 PM (f9fPA)

345 One of the things you learn as a Teacher, is that no two groups learn the same.... EVERY class is different. You have to be able to teach the same thing multiple ways, depending on your students... Common cores goal is to force the standardization of curriculum, through the standardization of testing... They want every teacher to teach the same... Just as Obamacare with tries to make every Doctor perform medicine the same through the paperwork for what tests they can do... or medicines they can prescribe. There will be no excellence.... everyone will play to this... lower... standard.

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 29, 2014 02:10 PM (84gbM)

346 "Common Whore " Just as Donald Sterling about those.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 29, 2014 02:10 PM (gOoFi)

347 It's very sadly amusing the reactions I get from young cashiers when I calculate my change due quicker than they can punch it into the register.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 06:07 PM (KNXgp) 


Or when you give them enough change so that you'll get a quarter back....

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at April 29, 2014 02:10 PM (AC0lD)

348 When's your tee time? Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 06:09 PM (x3YFz) I don't think the heavy stuff is comin' down for a few hours. I can get 18 in.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:11 PM (yz6yg)

349 But what about * and /. It is a matter of groups. x * y "creates" x groups of y objects and "gives" you how many objects you now have. x / y takes x objects and divides them into groups of y objects and "gives" you how many groups you now have, and how many ungrouped objects remain.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 02:11 PM (9W+0f)

350 "The Chinese have knocked out all our GPS satellites. Food is that way. Here's your map. See you in a week."

Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 29, 2014 06:07 PM (yz6yg)



I use a similar argument all the time.  The first thing I flash on the screen is a powerpoint slide of a screencap of GPS jammers that can be bought online.  Then ask them what they're going to do with no DAGR, no BFT, etc.

Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 02:11 PM (KNXgp)

351 I also wonder what that other AMY is doing/looking, the one who let that New Jersey piece of trash Joey Buttufuoco touch her.

Posted by: Soothsayerwing Plover § at April 29, 2014 02:11 PM (8UCj3)

352 Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 06:08 PM (8UCj3)

I am insulted.

Check #192.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 29, 2014 02:12 PM (QFxY5)

353 "What we really need is a math course that teaches these young dummies
how to negotiate a cash transaction, (i.e., return correct change),>>

It is always fun to find the correct change to make it so you only get bills back. Right after they have punched an amount into the cash register. Oh here's 30 cents so just give me a $5 bill for my change instead of he $4.70. The wheels start spinning and they just stare at the $4.70 on the readout.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 29, 2014 02:12 PM (tf9Ne)

354 Followed the Stephen PB link to xkcd and found a math test for Alextopia. http://xkcd.com/135/ Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 29, 2014 05:35 PM (tf9Ne) The not to scale really ties the room together.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. We should be so lucky. at April 29, 2014 02:12 PM (dMSj2)

355 I stand corrected.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:12 PM (8UCj3)

356 336 Or the computer goes down and they can't add two and two. I never want my kids to be in that kind of situation. Which is why I teach them how to do it the old-fashioned way. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 06:05 PM (qFpRI) It's very sadly amusing the reactions I get from young cashiers when I calculate my change due quicker than they can punch it into the register. Posted by: Country Singer at April 29, 2014 06:07 PM (KNXgp) The worst is when you give someone the exact change, but a larger bill plus some ones, enough to get back an even bill like a ten or a five (example, total bill of $16.87, and you give them $21.87 so you can get a five back) and they look at you like you just sprouted three heads.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 29, 2014 02:13 PM (qFpRI)

357 Joey Buttufuoco

I've always thought this was a made-up name.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 29, 2014 02:13 PM (I8YZX)

358 The same fundamental pedagogical paradigm can be used to teach everything that should be taught in school. And yet it isn't. Because Progress.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 02:13 PM (9W+0f)

359
Did you know that boobs were represented in the same percentage of the population during the civil war as it is today?


Its Math!

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 29, 2014 02:14 PM (hJauc)

360 well, it's Buttafuoco but your point stands

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:14 PM (8UCj3)

361 I don't think the heavy stuff is comin' down for a few hours. I can get 18 in. Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 29, 2014 06:11 PM (yz6yg) Don't forget your map. LOL... which made me think: nowdays how exactly DO Lt's do it? I mean it's an ongoing "lost in the woods" joke, but now even moreso that they've been brought up on their iphones. Hilarity must ensue.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 02:14 PM (x3YFz)

362 It is always fun to find the correct change to make it so you only get bills back. Right after they have punched an amount into the cash register. Oh here's 30 cents so just give me a $5 bill for my change instead of he $4.70. The wheels start spinning and they just stare at the $4.70 on the readout. Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 29, 2014 06:12 PM (tf9Ne) That's how I learned the "sophisticated" combinations of math. My parents owned a restaurant when I was a kid. I was the slave labor. You learn how to make change when someone does a last second switch like that REAL fast when they're glaring at you the whole time. This was before digital cash registers too.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:15 PM (yz6yg)

363 And the Federal Government is attempting this Progressive, Unconstitutional imbecility because Fuck You. Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 29, 2014 02:15 PM (9W+0f)

364 Posted by: Sean Bannion at April 29, 2014 06:11 PM (yz6yg) Friend of mine is an infantry officer and former west point instructor. Tons of shit are given and taken every time we chat. Love him. If you tell him that, I'll kill ya.

Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 02:16 PM (x3YFz)

365 LOL... which made me think: nowdays how exactly DO Lt's do it? I mean it's an ongoing "lost in the woods" joke, but now even moreso that they've been brought up on their iphones. Hilarity must ensue. Posted by: tangonine at April 29, 2014 06:14 PM (x3YFz) Frankly, they're fucked. The ones who go to Ranger figure it out. But Cav and Armor? Oh man. And you can't be reading a map everything 3 seconds in a tank. It's got to all be by terrain association at 45 mph.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 29, 2014 02:16 PM (yz6yg)

366 I also wonder what that other AMY is doing/looking, the one who let that New Jersey piece of trash Joey Buttufuoco touch her.

I don't know what she's doing, but I'm gonna run for Congress.

Posted by: Joey Buttufuoco at April 29, 2014 02:17 PM (4nR9/)

367 Nood up.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 29, 2014 02:17 PM (d0Dmj)

368 344 remember the teacher from NH AMY SMART? I wonder if she still looks do-able today. Posted by: Soothsayerwing Plover § at April 29, 2014 06:09 PM (8UCj3) It's Pamela Smart and here's a pic from about 4-5 years ago: http://tinyurl.com/jwzq7gc

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 29, 2014 02:17 PM (oFCZn)

369 the trick, as most of you already know, to cash register cyphering, is simple: All you need to know is a number's (0-99) counterpart to make 100. For instance, 22's counterpart is...78. And 83's counterpart to 17. I'll bet most of you use this but never heard it expressed until now.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:18 PM (8UCj3)

370 The above is kinda sorta Common Core-esque, in a way, if I understand it correctly. But my method is simple whereas CC convolutes the process.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at April 29, 2014 02:19 PM (8UCj3)

371 Common Core needlessly complicates the simple.

More importantly it injects ambiguity where none is needed nor wanted for students.

The ambiguity lends more authority to the instructors, and the chain of DotEd administrators, academics, and bureaucrats. It's designed to destroy the students' ability to learn independently and become an educated adult.



Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at April 29, 2014 02:25 PM (ujux6)

372 Right after they have punched an amount into the cash register. Oh here's 30 cents so just give me a $5 bill for my change instead of he $4.70 "Also actually just give me two tens for that five."

Posted by: Daybrother at April 29, 2014 02:26 PM (RPov0)

373 Did you know that boobs were represented in the same percentage of the population during the civil war as it is today?


I doubt it, those were pre-masectomy days

Posted by: Jean at April 29, 2014 02:29 PM (Aqvh6)

374 Once we have our Amnesty, you can hire our new Hispanic friends to do the math for you. It's for the children. You're welcome.

Posted by: GOP at April 29, 2014 02:31 PM (pgQxn)

375 Hey Ace, can we use this post as an example of explaining something simple with 4,000 words?

Posted by: Common Core at April 29, 2014 02:33 PM (GW/jL)

376 42 - 19 = 43-20 = 23

Posted by: JeffC at April 29, 2014 02:36 PM (TR6Cq)

377 My take on this reform is it will add at least two years to the curriculum just to get kids up to speed to enter a college or trade school. Genius. Posted by: Chaos the Other Dark Meat at April 29, 2014 05:33 PM (oDCMR) The simple solution seen today is to dumb down the college standards. We can't be having engineers build bridges that actually work and don't collapse. Lawyers would be out of a job!

Posted by: RickZ at April 29, 2014 02:39 PM (OmF5j)

378 Thanks, folks, for reminding me to find a source for McGuffey Readers. Done! BTW, my tablet must have been CC 'educated'. It kept trying to change McGuffey to McDonalds...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at April 29, 2014 02:44 PM (4DCSq)

379

I was an education major in my first semester in college. I've also worked as a substitute teacher at various times, in various places. I discovered early on that I didn't have the vocation to teach and I believe that for one to be a good teacher, one must have a mastery of the subject being taught, must like teaching, and must like students--or at least be able to effectively communicate to them--and one must view teaching as a calling that cannot be denied. I also discovered that most pedagogical theories emerging from universities are absolute bullshit, completely removed from the reality of the classroom.

 

Educators of all levels, from kindergarden through graduate school, are determined to prove that education as a profession is equal to law or medicine. They suffer from a kind of collective insecurity. This insecurity expresses itself in the constant whining we hear from teachers as a class, as well as the cockamamie theories that they try to apply seemingly every other year.

Posted by: troyriser at April 29, 2014 03:03 PM (gNlvW)

380 379 42 - 19 = 43-20 = 23 Posted by: JeffC at April 29, 2014 06:36 PM (TR6Cq) Hide posts from (TR6Cq)


.....which is just what I was going to say.

Posted by: cthulhu at April 29, 2014 03:33 PM (T1005)

381 Anyone who ever had a Jesuit education knows of the Ratio Studiorum. It is best demonstrated in the way the Jesuits taught Latin. First year was all about declensions, conjugations, sentence structure, grammar, and vocabulary. Year two studies Caesar's Commentaries which were written in a strict adherence to the rules of written Latin grammar.Year three was Cicero which was written for the ear as he was an orator and brought forth the usage of many metaphorical and idiomatical expressions.  And Year four was the Aeneid by Vergil, an epic poem that utilized  the complete arsenal of poetic expression. These could never be taught out of order.

Posted by: xknight65 at April 29, 2014 03:40 PM (Q5J6h)

382 Great post.

Posted by: Timwi at April 29, 2014 03:54 PM (pdhxN)

383 The chillren are coming out of grade school ill prepared for the "rigors" of US high schools. So much time is spent in remedial ed and STUPID electives (way too many IMHO) that the basic curriculum learning results are poor to say the least. Far too many performing below grade level across the subject matter board. Where the curve was historically biased towards the high end now the bias has measurably shifted to the lower end of the curve. The system, children, parents, gubermint, admin, teachers and culture have adapted and not in a good way. CC Will cause the system to adapt again. I think CC is a mistake. Though if by throwing everyone into the deep end of the pool the system learns how to swim, yeah right, the clock might just be right one more time. Of course we all might drown as well. Snorkels for sale! Get your red hot snorkels right here! Let it burn!

Posted by: Fewenuff at April 29, 2014 03:56 PM (wDwaq)

384 ace: "The kid will learn under this regime -- he will learn that education is futile and effort is wasted and thinking hurts your brain, and only leads to more confusion and embarrassment." And that leads to Kaboom kids...

Posted by: Taco Shack at April 29, 2014 03:59 PM (C+qQ0)

385 Common core is stupid, and will cause scores to go down, not up. I can prove this simply. First, as your homework for this proof, find ANY study comparing students who have significant parental involvement in their homework, compared to students who have no parental involvement. Any study at all will do, really they all show the same damned thing over and over again. Which group does so much better it's not only statistically relevant, it's possibly the most relevant factor we've ever found? Yeah... parental involvement is THAT important. Now, lets presume you start teaching in a new way that parents don't know, can't help with, and in doing so you deliberately remove parental involvement. What outcome do you get? Remember that dreadful "no parental involvement" group you looked up earlier? Yeah, that's what you get. They want that for all kids. That's apparently the goal. WHY you may ask (or scream)? 3 possibilities. 1) They hate kids and want them to suffer. 2) They want "equality" by making everyone as stupid as the stupidest kid. 3) They've convinced themselves they can outperform the best outcomes possible without the benefits that resulted in those outcomes because they're just that good... even though they've never been anywhere near that good at any time in the past. They're convinced this will make them 100 times more efficient overnight by magic or something. #1 is pure evil, #2 is malicious and rather evil as well, #3 is a level of stupidity you seldom find. Which one of those indicates the sort of people you want teaching kids again? Evil, malicious, or brutally stupid, which of those is a good thing for teachers?

Posted by: gekkobear at April 29, 2014 04:00 PM (aoA8q)

386 The thing with math is that you don't fully understand what you've "learned" until you get to the next level. Students who sit there and try to figure out the "why" of the matter RARELY learn the "what." Learn the "what," take it on faith if you have toÂ…and then when you move on the next section the "why" begins to reveal itself. It's like asking my second-grade son to understand Descartes' reasoning of "I think therefore I am" when in reality we're just doing a handwriting drill.

Posted by: keninnorcal at April 29, 2014 04:06 PM (ng9uL)

387 In what part of functional organizational theory does the lowest form of life in the food chain have the responsibility of being the targeted agent of change? Hint: NONE Your gubermint is the source go this mess. semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat Semper Vigilatus Thank google Let it burn

Posted by: Fewenuff at April 29, 2014 04:13 PM (wDwaq)

388 WHY this will not work: Basic child development, known for decades, states that kids don't really understand abstract thinking until around the age of 12. Now some may get the idea early, but you're still talking about the rudimentary beginning of understanding. Now let's introduce mathematical abstract concepts in first grade, and how will that end up? This is a no brainer. These people are idiots. Get your kid to do it the old school way at home as a way of explaining the point. Yep, break out the flash cards for basic math. TEACH what will not be taught at school. You'd think that these people understood human development, considering what their profession is, but then again, these are the same folks that start school late for elementary school and early for teens (sleep cycles) and who know that kids need to run to burn off energy, so they got rid of middle school recess, have decreased lunch to 20 minutes and have banned tag. As I put it to a administrator once "yes, that was necessary because of all of the rampant serious tag injuries"...

Posted by: tired at April 29, 2014 05:25 PM (adOUE)

389 I remember Louis CK. And what he said about Sarah Palin.

Never will I bother.

Posted by: S at April 29, 2014 06:32 PM (bOKSd)

390 My first cut at 42 - 19 took me a couple 10s of seconds to figure out which way to add something. Then it struck me: (42+1)-(19+1)=23

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at April 30, 2014 08:05 AM (VvOZ5)

391 Common Core is all about power and money.  If you think a certain billionaire is going to spend $150 million to teach your child math out of the goodness of his heart - you're crazy.  He is planning to get billions back from their "data mining".

Posted by: burt at April 30, 2014 03:18 PM (1+kJ5)

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