February 26, 2014

Michael Barone: No Matter What the Media-Fashioned "National Dialogue" on Guns, America's Culture Has Shifted Dramatically in Favor of Gun Rights
— Ace

Via @benk84 (follow him on twitter) and his Morning Dump, Barone's short piece is worth reading in full.

The result [of state concealed-carry legislation and Heller] has been that over the years the entire nation has become carry-concealed-weapons territory, as shown in a neat graphic in a Volokh Conspiracy blog post by Dave Kopel. Back in 1987, some people, myself included, worried that such laws would lead to frequent shootouts on the streets arising from traffic altercations and the like. That has not happened -- something we can be sure of since the mainstream media would be delighted to headline such events.

To the contrary, violent crime rates have declined drastically during the last quarter-century....

One lesson, I think, is that responsible citizens tend to behave like responsible citizens, even if — or perhaps especially if — they’re armed. Another lesson is that the national political dialogue can be totally irrelevant to what really happens in American life.

Anytime someone opposes a policy, they cry about the "parade of horribles" that will flow from it. In the case of guns, those horribles have always included the specter of Wild West shootouts breaking out all over the place. While there have in fact been two well-known bad shootings (Dunn, the Popcorn Vigilante) and one legal shooting which was nevertheless controversial (Zimmerman), the facts have not been kind to this theory of America Turned Dodge City.

Freedom is always scary. Freedom always carries with it the risk that people will use that freedom for bad ends. That's why it's been so easy, over 200 years, to erode and repeal the freedoms we began with.

Those against freedom prey on this fear and overstate it. And they fight like the Dickens to keep even an experimental program in freedom in a single state from going forward, because they fear the actual facts -- the policy in actual practice -- will not support their Narrative of Fear.

As a hypothetical matter, you could always, without being quite disproven, postulate that if law-abiding citizens were armed with guns, those law-abiding citizens would suddenly become reckless, angry vigilantes just looking for an excuse to plug someone.

But when it's no longer hypothetical -- when there's a factual record to go on -- it's harder to make this case.

Crucial to this argument's effectiveness is "Otherization." People are willing to believe the absolute worst about People Not Like Us. If you can portray gun-owners as exotic and strange -- Not Like Us -- the public will be willing, and maybe even eager, to believe that possession of a weapon will turn your average law-abiding, mortgage-paying, soccer-practice-ferrying United States Citizen into a hotheaded kill machine.

This argument was always restrained by the fact that so many Americans owned guns, and so many law-abiding American citizens continued abiding the law even in a state of, as the gun controllers would call it, Armed and Dangerous Murder Ecstasy. But a great number of people did not own guns, and so were willing to believe gun ownership was weird, and any gun owner was therefore weird, and who can trust a gun in the hands of a weirdo?

As more people own guns and carry them responsibly, this "weirdness" message so beloved by the gun controllers grows weaker and weaker. We're probably at the good tipping point now, or at least very close to it.

Posted by: Ace at 06:41 AM | Comments (266)
Post contains 600 words, total size 4 kb.

1

Tyranny is scarier.

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 26, 2014 06:45 AM (jj+6/)

2 Strange... One more leftist narrative withers under empirical evidence...

It's almost like they get off on being wrong.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at February 26, 2014 06:45 AM (fwARV)

3 The lefts predictions never come true,ours almost always do.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 06:46 AM (zqvg6)

4 >>>Tyranny is scarier. i wish it were easier to convince people of this.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 06:46 AM (/FnUH)

5 We need freedom from voter fraud to protect our freedom from the cult of the messiah.

Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 26, 2014 06:46 AM (hpgw1)

6 And yet over the past day, I've been in a discussion on Twitter with someone who claims to be for 2nd Am rights, but doesn't want teachers to have firearms in school.

I basically said that to me, there's no debate.  A person's right to self defense is inviolable.  Therefore, they are entitled to use any weapon that may be used against them, and at any location that they may need to make such a defense.

To nibble around the edges of that is to claim the right doesn't really exist.

It is not worth discussing the issue with anyone who thinks that there is nuance to the right of self-defense.

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 06:47 AM (/29Nl)

7 Two senior lawmakers from Connecticut have been subpoenaed in a civil racketeering case involving nursing homes and the SEIU, the Washington Examiner has learned.

U.S. Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., and Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., have been pulled into a lawsuit between two local chapters of the Service Employees International Union, which represent health care workers, and nursing homes. At issue is whether a campaign to pressure the management of the nursing homes during labor disputes crossed the line into extortion.

There is no allegation that DeLauro or Blumenthal have done anything criminal [yet], and the most recent complaint by the nursing home companies, filed in December, doesnÂ’t suggest that either politician has done anything wrong.

But both lawmakers are now in the uncomfortable situation of being deposed by lawyers representing the nursing homes and are forced to provide a wide array of documents relating to their interactions with the SEIU.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 26, 2014 06:47 AM (e8kgV)

8 Gun ownership is getting like gay marriage. It's not as scary once  you actually know about   actual  situations and are personally involved.

Posted by: Roy at February 26, 2014 06:47 AM (VndSC)

9 OT: In the sidebar. I bet that the sobbing Joo-hater at UCLA is (tragically) of Jewish lineage. Can't understand a thing and even through the piss poor sound quality, every other word is "like" and "you know." But speaking that way is anti-masculine and so it's PC. Great stuff!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 26, 2014 06:48 AM (olDqf)

10 More liberty = More safety . Weird huh ?

Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 06:48 AM (whqez)

11
We still need to continue the long march, including getting protection for kids in schools.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 26, 2014 06:49 AM (n0DEs)

12 Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 10:47 AM (/29Nl)

Nicely phrased.

For a Moron.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 06:49 AM (QFxY5)

13 Look at Venezuela and Ukraine. Best two arguments for the 2nd Amendment, IMO. Hopefully Peruvia won't annex them and change their name to Vuvuzela.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 26, 2014 06:49 AM (olDqf)

14 Those against freedom prey on this fear and overstate it. And they fight like the Dickens to keep even an experimental program in freedom in a single state from going forward, because they fear the actual facts -- the policy in actual practice -- will not support their Narrative of Fear. Except for pot. Full speed ahead!

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 06:50 AM (CRyse)

15 Over the last 8 years: Americans have purchased record numbers of firearms and ammunition, yet gun violence and crime has plummeted. The world has pumped more CO2 than ever before into the atmosphere, yet the planet has not warmed - and could well be cooling. The world has hired more and more liberals to lead us, resulting in a global economy that can charitably called a "shambles." Liberals don't want to hear facts. They need boogey-men to keep their diapers moist at night, to assure them that it's not they that are weak; it's the world that is "just too dangerous and unfair..."

Posted by: RobM1981 at February 26, 2014 06:50 AM (zurJC)

16 Now that this is solved ... can we get to the part where African-American caters are required to serve at the next Klu Kux Klan cross burning, while an Aryan Nations photographer must photograph the next NAACP national convention ?

Posted by: Robert Byrd at February 26, 2014 06:51 AM (e8kgV)

17 Shorter version: Reality - 1, Animism - 0

Posted by: B at February 26, 2014 06:51 AM (5OEha)

18 7 But both lawmakers are now in the uncomfortable situation of being deposed by lawyers representing the nursing homes and are forced to provide a wide array of documents relating to their interactions with the SEIU. Posted by: Joe Biden at February 26, 2014 10:47 AM (e8kgV) Discovery phases alone can be rather delicious. See Mark Steyn et al v. Michael Mann. Heh.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 26, 2014 06:51 AM (olDqf)

19 >>>Those against freedom prey on this fear and overstate it. And they fight like the Dickens to keep even an experimental program in freedom in a single state from going forward, because they fear the actual facts -- the policy in actual practice -- will not support their Narrative of Fear. Except for pot. Full speed ahead! ... Some might argue there is a Narrative of Fear being pushed regarding the freedom to smoke pot.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 06:51 AM (/FnUH)

20 Ace,

I assume you have seen the Ukraine Gun Owners Association's drive for a 2nd Amendment-like law.

If not: http://tinyurl.com/m67drp8

[Breitbart link]

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 06:52 AM (QFxY5)

21 Yep.  The whole " not like us" meme is persistent and used often.  Lately the 1% meme, the Tea Party, Evangelicals, people who don't live on the coasts and love their country....as it was founded,...

Funny isn't it, how twisted it all is.  Smoking pot = Ok!  Smoking cigarettes= oh noes!... the children!  Execute capitol felons = No no!  Abortion of innocent ( by definition) baby, ok and totally, don't judge the Mother..ever!  ..... and I could go on and on.. 

I'm sick of it.  I want the madness to stop, but am more resigned to it just keep getting more bizarre every freaking year until we get hauled off to our new fancy camps to live... for our own good of course.

Posted by: Yip at February 26, 2014 06:52 AM (/jHWN)

22 I love the idiot down in the comments who claims guns are 'exceptional' because they are designed to kill. Um...no. They aren't. Guns are designed to do one thing. Propel a bullet through a metal tube with as much accuracy as can be mustered. What that bullet is propelled toward is completely up to the user. Much like the person behind the wheel of a car has the ability to either drive on the road properly, or run over people.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at February 26, 2014 06:52 AM (O9qtX)

23 CBD, I've heard that story, yeah. I should link it, I guess.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (/FnUH)

24 OT

Why are sidebar stories now getting multiple posts?  Last night it was CINCPAC's WWII war diaries and now something in Electra, TX.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (dDf+N)

25 In fact, I would rather live in Road Warrior World than Stalinist Socialist Paradise.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (xWW96)

26 Does dri get the barrel for spamming the sidebar?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (gBnkX)

27 OT: What is good in life? The sidebar piece with the weepy UCLA anti-Semite is so choice. Give it a listen: not for content (it is pretty much indecipherable), but for the schadenbonering goodness of a long and pointless cry by a immature leftist (BIRM).

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (HsTG8)

28 Gun ownership is getting like gay marriage.

I must have missed the NRA suing Moms Demand Attention to force them to carry.

Posted by: HR, watching scripts run at February 26, 2014 06:53 AM (ZKzrr)

29 be sure to check out my new show, "Hangin' with Piers," on YouTube.

Posted by: Piers Morgan at February 26, 2014 06:54 AM (/FnUH)

30 As the tee-shirt says: I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

Posted by: Jim Scrummy at February 26, 2014 06:54 AM (6T8Ay)

31 >>>Does dri get the barrel for spamming the sidebar? it's apparently a bug, it keeps happening.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 06:54 AM (/FnUH)

32

Facts cannot be allowed to get in teh way of a good scary story!

 

 

Blood!  Will flow from the unholy altars of assault pistol with the shoulder thingy that flips up and down!  The blood of the man slaughtered in teh parking lot because he left his turn signal on too long!

Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Winter of Discontent will End! The Flowers of Fury will be here for Spring Planting at February 26, 2014 06:54 AM (hLRSq)

33 Quit looking out the window at the real world! Pay attention to our computer models, wingnutz! Plenty of shooting and global warming going on in there!

Posted by: Mooch at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (611Rk)

34 Dang I've never heard of any of these people. Is this about Dancing with the Stars or something?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (6bMeY)

35

8: "Gun ownership is getting like gay marriage. It's not as scary once you actually know about actual situations and are personally involved."

 

You seem to be operating under the false premise that anyone is afraid of gay "marriage".

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (v6cwT)

36 Guns are an example of leftist policy being tried and failing. They have no arguments left. The data contradicts all of it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (Zx2Zj)

37 Ah, the Old Devil Weed? I really don't care for the stinky stuff, but if others want to smoke it? Legally? Fine with me. It makes you slow, stupid, and hungry. But unlike heroin or crack or meth, does not promote criminal behavior.

Posted by: backhoe at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (ULH4o)

38 In fact, I would rather live in Road Warrior World than Stalinist Socialist Paradise.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 10:53 AM (xWW96)


^^ THIS times TRILLION ^^

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 26, 2014 06:55 AM (kXoT0)

39 8 Gun ownership is getting like gay marriage. It's not as scary once you actually know about actual situations and are personally involved. Posted by: Roy at February 26, 2014 10:47 AM (VndSC) Okay, let' ask some cake bakers and photographers about that!

Posted by: Mindy at February 26, 2014 06:56 AM (mQwL2)

40 Uh oh , mention of pot will bring in Dlamp , to equate it with widespread opium use in China centuries ago . Grease up and stand by .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 06:56 AM (whqez)

41 38 He just wants to wear chaps without pants.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 06:56 AM (zqvg6)

42 Nicely phrased.

For a Moron.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 10:49 AM (QFxY5)


Why thank you.


I've just come to the conclusion that it's really really damn hard to argue against the right to self defense.

Once you get someone to admit they are for it, you can dismantle their nuanced objections on the edges.

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 06:56 AM (/29Nl)

43

average law-abiding, mortgage-paying, soccer-practice-ferrying United States Citizen into a hotheaded kill machine.

 

 

Also known as, "Not the typical Demonrat   voter."

 

With the exception    of the fucking "soccer moms."  

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 06:56 AM (4df7R)

44 I know the science is settled and all, but how do SUV's cause volcanoes to erupt and islands to flip over?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 06:57 AM (6bMeY)

45 Data proving the failure of Communism is out there.  100+ million dead.  Yet people keep trying to impose it on everyone.

Maybe we should instead hammer home how in state run societies they will be rationed to one roll of toilet paper a month.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 06:57 AM (dDf+N)

46 Murder is punishable by death or in almost 40 states. If life without parole does not concern someone. Guns being legal does not change the equation in any meaningful way.

Posted by: Beagle at February 26, 2014 06:57 AM (sOtz/)

47 I think the tipping point toward a rational exercise of the 2nd Amendment in this country is counterbalanced by the balkanization of the country. The big cities will fight to the death to keep guns off their streets, and are happy to break the law to do it (see: Washington DC).

Unfortunately those cities have lots of voters and an entrenched progressive political hierarchy. It will be a generation before that can change...if ever.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 06:57 AM (QFxY5)

48 Barron is a $ short and a day late.  I have a book on my bookshelf from long ago title "More Guns Less Crime".  The statistics had already been looked at and all the left's myths debunked.


The left will NEVER give up on gun control.  It isn't the guns that scare them.  Its the hard on they get from the "control" part.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 06:57 AM (T2V/1)

49 Just popped in to thank whoever it was that recommended Ad Block for Firefox. What a change in my browsing. Every site was hanging up on something and I could hear something in the background but couldn't find a corresponding ad video. Installed Ad Block and so far so much better
Thanks morons.

Posted by: Gidget at February 26, 2014 06:58 AM (tfg7i)

50 The day the politburo revokes my rights will result in me getting up the next morning and exercising my rights (insert small Beretta in hip pocket and go about my business).

Posted by: Bill at February 26, 2014 06:58 AM (uvyrw)

51 38 In fact, I would rather live in Road Warrior World than Stalinist Socialist Paradise. Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 10:53 AM (xWW96) ^^ THIS times TRILLION ^^ Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 26, 2014 10:55 AM (kXoT0) Until Aunty Entity controls BarterTownÂ… Then it's the Democrat Party, but with chain mail.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 26, 2014 06:58 AM (olDqf)

52 J.J. Sefton, it is about time for them to remake Thunderdome with Rhianna as Aunty Entity.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 06:59 AM (dDf+N)

53 Why are sidebar stories now getting multiple posts? Last night it was CINCPAC's WWII war diaries and now something in Electra, TX.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 10:53 AM (dDf+N)

 

 

 

The  Cobs   forgot  the  "No  fapping  while  posting  rule". 

Posted by: Larsen E .Whipsnade at February 26, 2014 06:59 AM (rXcBX)

54

MWR, I came across the perfect CC weapon for moronettes today. Perfect.

http://tinyurl.com/22v6wsz

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 06:59 AM (xWW96)

55 But the left will keep claiming otherwise. That is what they do. With Zimmerman, they keep repeating the same discredited memes. With the DP, they claim support is dropping when it has not and this is with their phony polls. (I think there is suppose to be some phony conservatives against the DP booth at cpac that is funded by Soros. Spit on them for me.) They are still claiming the Rosenbergs and every executed murderer is innocent. And they mostly win by these tactics.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 26, 2014 06:59 AM (6Nj7A)

56 >>>Barron is a $ short and a day late. I have a book on my bookshelf from long ago title "More Guns Less Crime". The statistics had already been looked at and all the left's myths debunked. why the anger? You know there used to be claim we made on the right: "We look for converts, the left looks for heretics." I don't get the negative attitude towards someone making you case -- "late" or not.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 07:00 AM (/FnUH)

57 52 J.J. Sefton, it is about time for them to remake Thunderdome with Rhianna as Aunty Entity. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 10:59 AM (dDf+N) I would not be surprised if I did a little snooping and some sort of remake/retelling/whatever is actually in development somewhere.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 26, 2014 07:01 AM (olDqf)

58 Gun control, free sheeitt, choom for allah, birth control abortions.  It's the lord's work.

Posted by: Lord Barry the Common at February 26, 2014 07:01 AM (KQp38)

59 The Cobs forgot the "No fapping while posting rule". If that were the rule, we'd have double-posts galore. I think the rule is, in fact, the opposite.

Posted by: t-bird at February 26, 2014 07:01 AM (FcR7P)

60

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 10:59 AM (xWW96)

 

Nope!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:01 AM (4df7R)

61 19 >>>Those against freedom prey on this fear and overstate it. And they fight like the Dickens to keep even an experimental program in freedom in a single state from going forward, because they fear the actual facts -- the policy in actual practice -- will not support their Narrative of Fear. Except for pot. Full speed ahead! ... Some might argue there is a Narrative of Fear being pushed regarding the freedom to smoke pot. Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 10:51 AM (/FnUH) Yes it's exactly like the freedom to participate in mind altering substances. You're a genius. By the way, you're not allowed to conceal carry while under the influence.

Posted by: See You Next Tuesday at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (DAevm)

62 Once you get someone to admit they are for it, you can dismantle their nuanced objections on the edges.

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 10:56 AM (/29Nl)

It's the margins that are vitally important, as you point out.

If I can't carry into NYC to protect myself, then what's the point? I live in an extremely safe part of the metro area, and while I would love to carry, it is not a huge safety issue (it is however a huge freedom issue).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (QFxY5)

63

46: "Guns being legal does not change the equation in any meaningful way."

 

Incorrect. The threat of death or grevious harm from being shot by a home owner is much more certain than the chances of getting caught, convicted, and actually sentenced by the state.

 

Break into my home and see if your bleeding heart lawyer can get you off the sentence I will impose within my domain...

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (v6cwT)

64 @45 Anna, you just inspired me to tweet this: Communism always leads to Toilet Paper scarcity. Don't be a hygiene hater. Support capitalism.

Posted by: Votermom at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (GSIDW)

65 I believe there is a new Mad Max movie on the way.Probably a reboot.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (zqvg6)

66 The Hoplophobes next gambit is programming the kids now in school to hate guns. You love your gun? Teach every kid you know to love and respect them too.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (TE35l)

67 Yes but nine million children die a day from gunshot wounds! -screeching liberal

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 26, 2014 07:02 AM (0MVzQ)

68 In addition, Barone isn't talking about statistics. Statistics can establish a proposition... to someone who is researching that proposition and invested enough in it to do the math. But most people aren't like that. He's talking about the increasingly common daily experience of Americans with guns, and them finding that experience not particularly scary. I think some people are over-enamored of the political usefulness of "arguments." Arguments are useful, but people believing something on a gut level (no argument needed) is the most powerful "argument" of all. And people's daily experience provides that sort of non-argument "argument."

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 07:03 AM (/FnUH)

69 Every time a commie is arrested, they scream I know my constitutional rights! However, if they were in the great soviet republic, they would be tried and convicted in one day and executed the next.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 26, 2014 07:03 AM (6Nj7A)

70 56  why the anger?

You know there used to be claim we made on the right: "We look for converts, the left looks for heretics."

I don't get the negative attitude towards someone making you case -- "late" or not.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 11:00 AM (/FnUH)


That was not meant to be anger Ace, sorry if it looks that way perhaps I could have worded it different.  Just saying that there have been published articles and statistics on this for a LONG time.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 07:03 AM (T2V/1)

71 Having a firearm in the home should require no paperwork whatever.In fact,it should be mandatory.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (zqvg6)

72 21 Yip, Shrug...

Posted by: sven10077 at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (TE35l)

73 For any new Mad Max Gibson is too old. Who is the guy who played Dredd in the remake?  He might be good.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (xWW96)

74 Tyranny is scarier. i wish it were easier to convince people of this. Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 10:46 AM (/FnUH) They are willfully playing ignoramus, If one remembers just a few short years ago when Bush was in office their personal terror of being outcasts and tyranny being brought by Bush on Them , from patriot act to any actions by Bush Not real but imagined . Now we see actual demonstrations of Obama using state apparatus being used against citizens and they willfully submit to their blinders. so is it that they don't mind actual tyranny as long as they are safe from its use?

Posted by: willow at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (nqBYe)

75 Barron is a $ short and a day late. I have a book on my bookshelf from long ago title "More Guns Less Crime". The statistics had already been looked at and all the left's myths debunked.


why the anger?

You know there used to be claim we made on the right: "We look for converts, the left looks for heretics."

I don't get the negative attitude towards someone making you case -- "late" or not.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 11:00 AM (/FnUH)



Barone never jumps the gun on things before all the data is examined; and he's talking about where the public is, which is different from what Vic referenced.  When I read Barone I know he's giving me the straight info with no ideological axe to grind.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (+ywjg)

76 And look at how violent crime rates have skyrocketed in the UK and Australia since they grabbed the guns.

Suck it Piers

Posted by: phreshone at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (Q6pxP)

77

51: "Until Aunty Entity controls BarterTownÂ… "

 

And then the producers reminds her..."Who run Bartertown?"

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (OJn3e)

78 >>>Yes it's exactly like the freedom to participate in mind altering substances. You're a genius. By the way, you're not allowed to conceal carry while under the influence. no not exactly like, but if you're telling me there's no Otherization going on here, no fear of these pot-weirdos and what they might do when high, then I just don't believe you.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (/FnUH)

79

If guns are weird then I'm Willy Wonka.

 

Come my Glock wielding Ummpa Loomps....

Posted by: Jollyroger at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (t06LC)

80

The ATF found someone who was mentally retard.  Then they convinced him to do as they told him to do. Then they arrested him for doing what they told him.  In a two minute interview the judge figured out he was not playing with a full deck.  Luckily for him, the judge threw out the case and turned on the
ATF.  Federal employees: A real bunch of winners!

 

Posted by: burt at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (1+kJ5)

81 A mild reminder: the Old West lawlessness has also been overhyped by media then and now. Gunfights were unusual, the cowboys coming off the trail didn't randomly shoot up the towns.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 26, 2014 07:04 AM (7GJd1)

82 Karl Urban as Max?

MWR would be first in line to see that movie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:05 AM (dDf+N)

83 Ace, I was going to write a big comment about the true origins of the progressive opposition to gun rights. But I realized the insight was too significant and now I'm going to make a blog post out of it instead. Sorry! I feel guilt for some reason.

Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 07:05 AM (+cx5n)

84 it's really really damn hard to argue against the right to self defense. Now, now, citizen- just call the authorities! That's their job, after all...

Posted by: Ambassador Stevens at February 26, 2014 07:05 AM (FcR7P)

85 zombie, I look forward to reading it.

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 07:05 AM (/FnUH)

86 @63 It does not change the equation of the predicted bloodbath in the streets which is what I was talking about.

Posted by: Beagle at February 26, 2014 07:05 AM (sOtz/)

87 66 The Hoplophobes next gambit is programming the kids now in school to hate guns. Good luck with that. They may as well try to teach them to hate chocolate. We really should make gun safety part of high school education. I mean, since kids are gonna do it anyway, they should do it safely, right?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 26, 2014 07:06 AM (Zx2Zj)

88 Ace, get off Vic's lawn!

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 26, 2014 07:06 AM (6Nj7A)

89 Yay, zombie post!

Posted by: Votermom at February 26, 2014 07:06 AM (GSIDW)

90 Yep,type " Mad Max" into IMDB and a movie comes up dated 2015.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:06 AM (zqvg6)

91 A disarmed citizenry is easier to terrorize and browbeat than one that has an operational cannon in the town square while every able bodied male owned a musket.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:07 AM (dDf+N)

92 No public employee should receive more than the minimum wage. If you can make more in the private sector do so.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:07 AM (6bMeY)

93 obama is proposing another 100 billion in stimulus spending but can't find 1 billion for the Military Commissary System and money for Basic housing for the troops. But he loves the Military don't ya know

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 26, 2014 07:07 AM (nzKvP)

94 Mad Max:Fury Road starring Tom Hardy as Max Rockatansky.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:07 AM (zqvg6)

95

So,      our    exalted Attorney General can tell state Attorneys General that they aren't required to     enforce   laws they don't agree with.     Could he not also say that     an    AG    CAN   choose to prosecute despite    laws saying     they can't?     Let's say,   for example, a state   allows concealed carry, but the AG thinks that they shouldn't.    So someone's arrested    for    carrying a concealed weapon,   and   the AG   says, "Oh, well, we know that we have a law on the books that says this is okay, but I don't agree with that law."

 

Yes, I realize that's a mindblowing scenario.   Five years ago I wouldn't have given it a passing thought.   Today?   I'm investing in tin foil for all the hats I'm making.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:08 AM (4df7R)

96 Whenever I get into a discussion like this with a rabid lefty, it's always good to end this way:

- There are tens of millions of people who consider self-defense to be an inviolable right.  It is not negotiable.
- Of those tens of millions, there are a few million willing to fight to the death for that right.
- If you lend your support to government infringing on this right, you will be considered an enemy. 
- Your calculus into a "solution" had better take that into account, because there will be a terrible price, and these people aren't going to stop at fighting back against only those who come to the doors to confiscate.

Usually sobers things up.

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 07:08 AM (/29Nl)

97 Meanwhile, here is editorial 'cartoon' as published in the Atlanta Constitution last week. Luckovich (the 'cartoonist') apparently finds it convenient to overlook the fact that King was well armed at home..., and for all I know, while on the road too. http://cmgajcluckovich.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/021814-toon-luckovich-ed.jpg

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 26, 2014 07:08 AM (aDwsi)

98 @81 Gunfights became legend because they were rare. Unlike Chicago where gang gunfights happen every day.

Posted by: Beagle at February 26, 2014 07:08 AM (sOtz/)

99

I love the way liberals advocate for turning the US to Venezuela and then once you point out what Venezuela is rebut your argument with a wave off of "Oh, that can't happen here."

 

Why not? Guns. But they want to get rid of those too...

Posted by: Jollyroger at February 26, 2014 07:09 AM (t06LC)

100 85 zombie, I look forward to reading it. Posted by: ace 89 Yay, zombie post! Posted by: Votermom Gee, now I've put my foot in it -- I must produce something to fulfill my promise, rather than slack off, as is my usual urge!

Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 07:09 AM (+cx5n)

101 zombie didnt you in the past call people insane for having guns in a house with children?

Posted by: See You Next Tuesday at February 26, 2014 07:09 AM (DAevm)

102 Power is a zero-sum game. The more power the individual has, the less power the state has, and vice versa. Guns are power.

Posted by: Votermom at February 26, 2014 07:09 AM (GSIDW)

103 Tom Hardy played Bane btw.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:09 AM (zqvg6)

104 Nationwide Gun control and violation of the second amendment started in 1935 as a result of gang violence from the stupid prohibition law. The it was solidified with an absolutely insane interpretation by the Supreme Court that it took almost 100 years to roll back.


But depsite that due to constant pressure from the left and staking of the courts by the left, we have steadily lost ground on the second amendment.


And I don't see that changing any time soon.  The corrupt Obamanites have just gone about subverting it in different directions. (Gun running to cartels; shutting down the only lead smelter, et al)

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (T2V/1)

105

The closer  we get to the "tipping point" that Ace mentioned, the more intense the effort will be to find that one case that strikes  fear into the public and reverses  this development.

 

 

Posted by: CJ at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (9KqcB)

106

Karl Urban as Max?


MWR would be first in line to see that movie.


 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 11:05 AM (dDf+N)

 

 

Oh HELL yes.    Especially if he    wore chaps.   ONLY chaps.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (4df7R)

107 Barone is also demonstrating to liberals, that when you are shown to be wrong, as he was, you should admit it.




/ok stop laughing now

Posted by: phreshone at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (Q6pxP)

108 >>>Tom Hardy played Bane btw. Oooaaahhh...! Thank your for the kindness of remembering, detective...! oooaahhh!

Posted by: Bane at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (/FnUH)

109

82: "Karl Urban as Max?

MWR would be first in line to see that movie."

 

I'd buy that on bluray. But then I'm still hoping they actually release part 2 of Priest.

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 07:10 AM (LJpVo)

110 Tom Hardy will play the role of Max in the reboot?  Eewwww...  he played Bane in The Dark Knight Rises so he should be the one in the sandrail in leather and all.  Not playing the hero. 

And the reboot is listed in post-production with a 2015 release.  What kind of post-production takes a year?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:11 AM (dDf+N)

111 110 Is he a hobbit?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:11 AM (6bMeY)

112

"Those against freedom prey on this fear and overstate it. And they fight like the Dickens to keep even an experimental program in freedom in a single state from going forward, because they fear the actual facts -- the policy in actual practice -- will not support their Narrative of Fear.

Except for pot. Full speed ahead!"

--------------------------------------------

 

Meh. There are examples in human history that show the corrosive effects drugs can have on societies. China and opium, Russia and alcohol. But there are people around who refuse to learn from the 96th kick of the mule.

Posted by: The Awkward-Turtle at February 26, 2014 07:11 AM (P7ezA)

113 In fact,it should be mandatory. Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 11:04 AM (zqvg6) Mandatory? Woah there, friend.

Posted by: Mindy at February 26, 2014 07:12 AM (mQwL2)

114 It's the margins that are vitally important, as you point out.

If I can't carry into NYC to protect myself, then what's the point? I live in an extremely safe part of the metro area, and while I would love to carry, it is not a huge safety issue (it is however a huge freedom issue).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 26, 2014 11:02 AM (QFxY5)


They love the the "you don't really need" it argument.  The response is always

"I haven't needed it...yet." followed by

"How many TV interviews after tragic events start with 'I never thought it could happen here.'"

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 07:12 AM (/29Nl)

115 Having a firearm in the home should require no paperwork whatever.In fact,it should be mandatory. No, it shouldn't. Freedom goes both ways- the freedom to choose to own a gun, and the freedom to choose not to.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 26, 2014 07:12 AM (SY2Kh)

116 It does not change the equation of the predicted bloodbath in the streets which is what I was talking about. Remember when we sent all those crazed, armed Revolutionaries home after 1783? It was madness, I tell you. Aaron Burr would still be alive if they'd had gun control! *derp*

Posted by: t-bird at February 26, 2014 07:12 AM (FcR7P)

117 What kind of post-production takes a year? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 11:11 AM (dDf+N) One that takes too long to be ready this summer but wants to be a summer blockbuster anyway.

Posted by: AMDG at February 26, 2014 07:12 AM (t7OO0)

118 Given the ridiculous reaction to *anything* gun-related in schools, even Lego guns, gun-shaped pop-tarts, pictures of guns on the 'Gun Free Zone' signs, it's clear  they want to teach children to hate the sight of them.

Which is funny when you look at what Hollywood and the video game market is targeting at teens.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (aq/zi)

119 Oh,apparently the terrorist in the new Liam Neeson flick is going to be someone traumatized by 9/11.A christian,no doubt.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (zqvg6)

120 101 zombie didnt you in the past call people insane for having guns in a house with children? Posted by: See You Next Tuesday I said, if you recall, that I fully support the Second Amendment, but that I personally have a phobia around having guns in mixed household of toddlers and seniors, and that I myself choose not to own a gun. I made the point about the potential danger of a gun in the home with a rather hyperbolic metaphor, for which I apologized. But back to the original statement, which still obtains: I support gun rights and the Second Amendment, whether or not I feel the same fears as a liberal. The difference between me and a liberal is that the wish to project their fears onto society, and I don't.

Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (+cx5n)

121

92: "No public employee should receive more than the minimum wage. If you can make more in the private sector do so."

 

Hope you like the draft.

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (Kh+vp)

122 possession of a weapon will turn your average law-abiding, mortgage-paying, soccer-practice-ferrying United States Citizen into a hotheaded kill machine. 

Possession of weapon may not, but forcing socialism down our throats certainly will.

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (4JkHl)

123 Now , on to suppressors . Legalize 'em and do away with all the bullshit regs and forms . Call it noise abatement policy or some other pc catchphrase . Govt. drones love that shit .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 07:13 AM (whqez)

124 the wish to project their fears onto society = they wish to project their fears onto society

Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 07:14 AM (+cx5n)

125 Posted by: Lizzy at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (aq/zi) Right on. Saw a news story a week or two back about the TSA taking a toy gun from a Toy Story Woody doll.

Posted by: AMDG at February 26, 2014 07:14 AM (t7OO0)

126

That was not meant to be anger Ace, sorry if it looks that way perhaps I could have worded it different. Just saying that there have been published articles and statistics on this for a LONG time.

 

What Barone said was "I was afraid of bad consequences, they didn't materialize, now I have changed my mind".  OWTTE.

 

That is breathtakingly rare in this culture, and refreshingly welcome to me.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (A0sHn)

127 118 Given the ridiculous reaction to *anything* gun-related in schools, even Lego guns, gun-shaped pop-tarts, pictures of guns on the 'Gun Free Zone' signs, it's clear they want to teach children to hate the sight of them. And we see how well that worked with drugs, alcohol, and sex.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (Zx2Zj)

128 Anyone see NCIS last night and notice a subtle anti gun message clouding it. Turns out the owner of a gun show was the bad guy (gal). And poor little newbie asking Gibbs how it feels to shoot.
Fricking NCIS for gods sake.

Posted by: Gidget at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (tfg7i)

129 You make thank me for your liberty at your convenience.




You're welcome

Posted by: Charleton Heston at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (Q6pxP)

130 Liberals don't want to hear facts. They need boogey-men to keep their diapers moist at night, to assure them that it's not they that are weak; it's the world that is "just too dangerous and unfair..." Posted by: RobM1981 at February 26, 2014 10:50 AM (zurJC) Precisely.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (YyiJ+)

131 Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (+cx5n) Fair enough.

Posted by: See You Next Tuesday at February 26, 2014 07:15 AM (DAevm)

132 OT: That sidebar article where they're finding whale fossils in Chile, they also found the bones of an aquatic sloth. A what?!?! Great band name, but I don't see how living your life as flotsam worked- even briefly- a survival strategy.

Posted by: t-bird at February 26, 2014 07:16 AM (FcR7P)

133 I respectfully disagree, Hollowpoint.

Some Swiss cantons require you to bring a weapon with you to vote.

This has worked out fine for them, the rabbit people don't get to piss in the legislation.

If you are unwilling to defend the Republic from dangers, foriegn and domestic, you shouldn't really have a say in how it is run. And, just to twist the knife, the unarmed should be charged double sales tax, just to pay for their defense "free" ride.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:16 AM (c6N69)

134 *blinks*

$100 million budget and filmed in Namibia?  What is wrong with shooting on the cheap in Australia?

And I hope Max still has something as wicked as his Javelin cop car.  Not a four door Fiat 500.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:16 AM (dDf+N)

135 Wasn't NCIS a rerun last night?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:16 AM (6bMeY)

136 123 Now , on to suppressors . Legalize 'em and do away with all the bullshit regs and forms . Call it noise abatement policy or some other pc catchphrase . Govt. drones love that shit . Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (whqez) ^^HELL. YES^^^

Posted by: RWC at February 26, 2014 07:16 AM (fWAjv)

137 134 A Prius Interceptor.World ravaged by climate change.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:17 AM (zqvg6)

138 Mad Max in a Prius.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:17 AM (6bMeY)

139 This is possibly the most positive thing I've seen Ace write in a while, and I have to say it felt good.  It is easily the most positive development in the social sphere these days. 

OK, enough optimism.  Bring on the suck.

Posted by: shillelagh at February 26, 2014 07:17 AM (hRzu2)

140

If you are unwilling to defend the Republic from dangers, foriegn and domestic, you shouldn't really have a say in how it is run. And, just to twist the knife, the unarmed should be charged double sales tax, just to pay for their defense "free" ride.


 

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 11:16 AM (c6N69)

 

 

Aaaaand no.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:17 AM (4df7R)

141 137 Dangit.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:17 AM (6bMeY)

142 I live in an extremely safe part of the metro area,

For now.

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (4JkHl)

143 And I hope Max still has something as wicked as his Javelin cop car. Not a four door Fiat 500.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 11:16 AM (dDf+N)

 

 

 

The leftard Mad Max would most likely resemble the crew cut 50 year old virgin in a moo moo in Demolition Man and be driving a pink prius, with flames.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (xWW96)

144 This is one thing that tempers my natural predisposition towards gloom about our situation. It really is the case that the second amendment is the one that protects all the others. I can actually envision a scenario where, in typical cockeyed American fashion, we become effectively a nanny-state socialist free-shit army society, but one where everyone is heavily armed and the right to protect oneself is enshrined in law. It would be somewhat ironic, but I think it may actually turn out that way.

Posted by: Abner "Call Me Abbie" Normal[/i][/b][/s][/u] at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (qlBdX)

145 Suppressors.... Is that the American translation of 'Commissar'?

Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (Q6pxP)

146 People in more rural settings that have been raised in a more 2nd Amendment friendly culture look at guns as a tool, like a chainsaw or a power drill. Just because you own a chainsaw and know how to use it, it doesn't follow that you''ll use it to violently project power. Leftist fools unfamiliar with guns project their ignorant fears onto unknown law abiding citizens. And the MFM feeds these fears,especially aiming at mothers, with the "If It Bleeds It Leads" programming of the evening news. However, any freedom cherishing gun owner when threatened would certainly be inclined to invoke The Dirty Harry Doctrine for personal security.

Posted by: ontherocks at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (8AaQe)

147 115 Having a firearm in the home should require no paperwork whatever.In fact,it should be mandatory. -- No, it shouldn't. Freedom goes both ways- the freedom to choose to own a gun, and the freedom to choose not to. Posted by: Hollowpoint Thank you -- that was exactly the point I was trying to make last month as well. The Second Amendment specifically says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms...", and not "...the obligation of the people to keep and bear arms...."

Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (+cx5n)

148 George Kennedy is a big AGW believer,he made that crap Happy Feet.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:18 AM (zqvg6)

149 The Left always says the 2nd amendment is stupid cause it's not like you can fight tanks with guns. Yet that's exactly what happened in Afghanistan. And now we are leaving and pulling out our tanks.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 26, 2014 07:19 AM (ZPrif)

150 147 That was my mistake,I meant more like highly recommended.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:19 AM (zqvg6)

151 Barone never jumps the gun on things before all the data is examined; and he's talking about where the public is, which is different from what Vic referenced. When I read Barone I know he's giving me the straight info with no ideological axe to grind. More Guns, Less Crime was published June 1st, 1998. 16 years ago. Crime data was analized in every county from 1977 to 1998 (1st printing) and beyond. Long time to wait to show up to the party.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 07:19 AM (CRyse)

152 >>>What is wrong with shooting on the cheap in Australia? Unions.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 26, 2014 07:19 AM (7GJd1)

153 Given the ridiculous reaction to *anything* gun-related in schools, even Lego guns, gun-shaped pop-tarts, pictures of guns on the 'Gun Free Zone' signs, it's clear they want to teach children to hate the sight of them. Which is funny when you look at what Hollywood and the video game market is targeting at teens. That's done on purpose, you know. Keep the people confused, and then offer up the government as the Decider. That's why this report is so devastating to the Left. People will act like adults when they're not treated like children.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit[/i][/u][/b][/s] at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (0HooB)

154 "Cor!  A Prius Interceptor!  Ya know why itz an 'ceptor?"

"No, can I eat it?"

"No you blinking sod, because it 'ad a l'rger capacity battery."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (dDf+N)

155 Suppressors? Can't you just buy a bag of Russet Potatoes?

Posted by: See You Next Tuesday at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (DAevm)

156 OT: In the sidebar. I bet that the sobbing Joo-hater at UCLA is (tragically) of Jewish lineage. Can't understand a thing and even through the piss poor sound quality, every other word is "like" and "you know." But speaking that way is anti-masculine and so it's PC. Great stuff! - I have always liked the Theme From Exodus ("This land is mine. God gave this land to me.") I remember as a young child hearing Ferrante and Teicher play it on the Ed Sullivan Show loe these many years ago when I was a mere whippersnapper and I liked it then. I have a weakness for film scores (not those new fangled film scores where rappers grunt about bonin' bitches and killin' cops but the old great film scores) and I happened to hear that song on my iPod this morning at the gym. (I didn't care that much for the movie despite the fact that hometown hero Dalton Trumbo, the dirty commie, wrote the screenplay). Anyway, that song is now playing in my head as I hear the that PC bitch cry.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (Hx5uv)

157 azenogoth:

Drafting public employees sounds like a fine idea. In fact, make a four year term a requirement to vote. You could end up doing anything from sweeping floors in a prison to serving in the military, to handling drivers licenses at the DMV.

But you will serve if you want to vote.

Roman Senators were referred to ceremonially as "Conscript Fathers" ... maybe we could expand this idea?

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (c6N69)

158 119 Oh,apparently the terrorist in the new Liam Neeson flick is going to be someone traumatized by 9/11.A christian,no doubt. Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (zqvg6) I don't pay money to be insulted. Also, isn't Neesom getting a bit long in the tooth to be playing an action hero?

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (6Nj7A)

159 I say the CBD, because I live in a "safe area" inside the beltway, full to the gills with liberals, cops, and armed feds.  Last week a guy was stabbed to death at the end of the street and the grocery store held up - while I was in back. 

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (4JkHl)

160 Posted by: zombie at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (+cx5n)


Well stated; I grew up in a household with shotguns but Father Hate kept them put away and out of sight and also put the fear of God in me if I had the thought of fucking around with them.  He also took me out to shoot them when I was an early teen so I could experience the consequences of using them.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 26, 2014 07:20 AM (+ywjg)

161 I respectfully disagree, Hollowpoint. Some Swiss cantons require you to bring a weapon with you to vote. I don't care what some backwater Swiss cantons require. Mandates are every bit an affront to freedom as prohibitions. I have more guns than fingers and toes, but I can also respect the decision of someone else not to own one.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (SY2Kh)

162

>>>What is wrong with shooting on the cheap in Australia?



Unions.

 

 

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 26, 2014 11:19 AM (7GJd1)

 

 

And probably environmental regulations.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (4df7R)

163 Barone really blew the last election, though.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (ZPrif)

164 Now , on to suppressors . Legalize 'em and do away with all the bullshit regs and forms . Call it noise abatement policy or some other pc catchphrase . Govt. drones love that shit . Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 11:13 AM (whqez) ^^HELL. YES^^^ Posted by: RWC Texas legalized suppressors for hunting just last September.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (CRyse)

165 They should have filmed an urban Mad Max reboot in Detroit.  A little CGI here and there and it's Sydney

Posted by: phreshone at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (Q6pxP)

166 135 Wasn't NCIS a rerun last night?

Nope. New.

Posted by: Gidget at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (tfg7i)

167 For leftist politicians I think it has more to do with an armed citizenry being able to thwart their plans.  They could care less if everyone kills each other in the streets.  They just want to be safe to pursue their domination of everyone.

Which is precisely what the Founders foresaw, and is the reason why even if there were to be a death toll from arming ourselves it would be worth the price.  Simply put, we could not kill each other at a rate that would even come close to matching what socialism can produce.  That is the one area where it is very efficient since every aspect of it leads to penury, starvation and violent suppression.

This is why the Tea Party scares the hell out of the left.  Not only are they economically literate and unable to be bought off, but they understand what the 2nd amendment is intended to protect.  How could that not scare people who intend to do us ill?

Posted by: Thatch at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (qYvEa)

168 @132 Yeah, aquatic sloth baffled me as well. Unless it had lasers on its head or was horribly toxic to eat.

Posted by: Beagle at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (sOtz/)

169 Speaking of guns, did Russia basically invade Ukraine without firing a shot.

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 07:21 AM (4JkHl)

170 The anti-gun people will continue to spew the fear.

A silly example, I know, but, while watching the last episode of Blacklist (which, as I mentioned earlier, also showed a picture of Allen West and another of Ted Cruz hobnobbing with the main villain ), someone was carrying a weapon in a gas station store and tried to use it to stop a psycho killer.

The psycho, who has kidnapped his wife and kid, is challenged by an "old white guy in jeans, carrying," who's gun goes off after being shot at first, hitting the little girl, and gets himself shot.

It does end well, though.  The wife picks up the old man's gun and kills her deranged husband.


Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (IXrOn)

171 >>Another lesson is that the national political dialogue can be totally irrelevant to what really happens in American life.

And that's because these "national dialogues" are never really dialogues at all.

They're just the Left deciding that now is the time to Do Something, which is: the usual preaching put into overdrive + angry protesters + demonization of the other side.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (aq/zi)

172 Some Swiss cantons require you to bring a weapon with you to vote.

That sounds bizarre. Which ones?

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (t8ySh)

173 The Sloth Aquatic with Bill Murray.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (dDf+N)

174 Detroit is the Thunderdome. (Feel free to substitute Chicago, D.C. etc.)

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (Hx5uv)

175 Similarly - I think a couple more of these record snow winters and Global Warming will be a late-night comedy punchline. Oh, what's this? Daily Caller: Greenpeace co-founder says there is no scientific evidence of Global Warming http://preview.tinyurl.com/mgwr2av

Posted by: Votermom at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (GSIDW)

176 MWR: Oregon has zero sales tax, so the double of zero is still zero ...

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:22 AM (c6N69)

177 Daddy Thunder had a locked gun cabinet. And he made his own shotgun shells in the basement. While smoking. My mother was convinced he was going to blow us all up accidentally with the drop of some ash

Posted by: thunderb at February 26, 2014 07:23 AM (zOTsN)

178 Here's the crux of the argument.  It's always bugged me that gun rights folks haven't broken the fight down to its basic core.  When you waste time pointing to polls, court decisions and other attempts at debating via appeal to authority, all you're doing is conceding the other side's point to a lesser degree; that it's in some way subject to interpretation.

Every living thing on this planet has a some form of built in instinct to protect its life.  From single cells to mankind, the drive to live is universal.
Therefore, my right to protect my life is utterly outside any form of man-made structure.  (i.e. inalienable). 
It does NOT exist because of the 2nd Amendment.  You can destroy every copy of the US Constitution on the planet on down to the original and I will laugh in your face when you try and tell me that I therefore don't have a right to protect myself.
Now.
What's more laughable?
The utterly ridiculous attempt to tell another human being they must forfeit that instinct and face injury or death because of the fear another person has of an inanimate object. 
And then, since they know they're losing the argument,  there's the hilarious quasi-Luddite appeal to your reason.
"Well, you can use a gun but it has to be the muskets in use when the 2A was drafted" or "OK, then just older guns that hold less than 10 rounds like revolvers and maybe a 1911 but not the newer ones that hold more" and the always favorite "I don't want you to have one of those because.....well, just look at it! It looks like something a soldier would carry!"

You don't have a right to tell me how, when, or even if I can protect myself and you g-damn sure don't have a right to restrict my efforts to a particular century or level of technology because you know your argument is full of shit from the get-go.


Posted by: B at February 26, 2014 07:23 AM (5OEha)

179 Its hard to shoot a movie in aussieland, they only allow still cameras that you load one frame at a time.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 07:23 AM (xWW96)

180 Well,Swiss conscripts keep their weapons at home like the Israeli's.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (zqvg6)

181

And yet over the past day, I've been in a discussion on Twitter with someone who claims to be for 2nd Am rights, but doesn't want teachers to have firearms in school.

 

Tell them a child is more likely to be molested by a teacher than shot by one and watch their head explode.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (zF6Iw)

182 Waterhouse: I'll look it up.

I recall they were voting on Women's suffrage, and voted against. Every voter in the photo was carrying a ceremonial sword.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (c6N69)

183 166 It was supposed to have been. Thanks for the tip.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (6bMeY)

184 Well stated; I grew up in a household with shotguns but Father Hate kept them put away and out of sight and also put the fear of God in me if I had the thought of fucking around with them. He also took me out to shoot them when I was an early teen so I could experience the consequences of using them. My dad did that also. First time I ever shot, I was 6. Still have dad's .22.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (CRyse)

185 The new Mad Max movie plot?  It is rumoured to take place between the first and second movies.

*face palm*

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (dDf+N)

186 I love the idiot down in the comments who claims guns are 'exceptional' because they are designed to kill. Um...no. They aren't. Guns are designed to do one thing. Propel a bullet through a metal tube with as much accuracy as can be mustered. What that bullet is propelled toward is completely up to the user. Much like the person behind the wheel of a car has the ability to either drive on the road properly, or run over people.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at February 26, 2014 10:52 AM (O9qtX)

 

I think the logic is muddled on both sides of that argument, yours and the commenter you complain about. If someone argues that guns are exceptional because guns are designed to kill, I would agree that yes, guns are weapons (as well as hunting tools) and not hammers or screwdrivers or wrenches, which have other purposes, but their potential use as weaponry does not give federal and state governments the authority to circumvent or outright violate the Constitution in order to proscribe or infringe upon their ownership and use by private citizens.

 

So yes, guns are exceptional--certainly to the Founders, who constructed an amendment specifically to ensure their continued possession by the people. Thus, in the end it's about constitutional freedom. To compare a gun to a car is disinegenuous.

Posted by: troyriser at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (V9ol4)

187 Kinda related and OT,


Any SC morons here right now?  I just found out that I am taking the wife to Charleston this weekend for her birthday present and I would like to know the basics for CC there.  I'm assuming that I keep my permit with me at all times when I'm armed and must disclose that to a LEO if I am directly addressed.

What are the particulars for restaurants and bars?  Carry is ok, unless posted and no alcohol while carrying?

Walking around town is ok though right?


Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (GQ8sn)

188 MWR: Oregon has zero sales tax, so the double of zero is still zero ...

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 11:22 AM (c6N69)

 

Yes?  And?   If you're proposing a federal mandate to    own a gun, then you'd require a federally mandated sales tax to offset the non-gun owners.

 

Sounds a bit like Obammycare, doesn't it?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:24 AM (4df7R)

189 71 Having a firearm in the home should require no paperwork whatever.In fact,it should be mandatory. Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 11:04 AM (zqvg6) Goreville, Illinois.......SAH-LUTE!! They don't enforce it, though :-D

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at February 26, 2014 07:25 AM (YyiJ+)

190 Namibia will look just like Australia. It has a lot of desert and scrub. Then you drive into some little valley and there is a German or Dutch town. It's an interesting country.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 26, 2014 07:25 AM (7GJd1)

191 There is no allegation that DeLauro or Blumenthal have done anything criminal - DeLauro going outside without a bag over her head should be a felony.

Posted by: WalrusRex at February 26, 2014 07:25 AM (Hx5uv)

192 Charlize Theron as the main " bad guy".Not quite as intimidating as the Humongous.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:25 AM (zqvg6)

193 180 Well,Swiss conscripts keep their weapons at home like the Israeli's.


And we f*cking disarm our military while they're on base.

Posted by: phreshone at February 26, 2014 07:26 AM (Q6pxP)

194 Gun control has never been done properly, that's all.  We're smarter than all those other people in England and Germany and Russian and China and Chicago and Detroit...

Posted by: Self-aware Progressive at February 26, 2014 07:26 AM (XO6WW)

195 I think people are arming themselves and so supportive of guns lately because they sense something awful is on the horizon. We keep being told everything is fine but we keep knowing differently deep down.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (zfY+H)

196 169 Speaking of guns, did Russia basically invade Ukraine without firing a shot.

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 11:21 AM (4JkHl)


I think it was more that the Ukrainians ceded the Crimea without opposition. It's full of ethnic Russians and Sevastopol is home to the Black Sea fleet, so the Russians weren't going to give it up anyway.

Posted by: joncelli at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (RD7QR)

197 Damned, may not be available on the internets, the last canton approved suffrage in 1971 ... I guess I was in HS when I saw that photo.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (c6N69)

198 The closer we get to the "tipping point" that Ace mentioned, the more intense the effort will be to find that one case that strikes fear into the public and reverses this development.

Posted by: CJ at February 26, 2014 11:10 AM
======
Or the Left employing deceit (and sometimes outright hoaxes) when the facts don't agree with the narrative.

Michael Bellisile's book "Arming America" and the brouhaha that followed is a good example:

LINK:  http://hnn.us/article/691 (history news network)  h/t posse incitatus

Posted by: mrp at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (JBggj)

199

Posted by: Self-aware Progressive

 

 

I call foul!   No   such creature exists!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (4df7R)

200 >Some Swiss cantons require you to bring a weapon with you to vote. >>This has worked out fine for them, the rabbit people don't get to piss in the legislation. You know what Switzerland doesn't have? A standing army. They require the conscripts to keep their guns at home because they are the militia to defend the country. Slightly different situation.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (g1DWB)

201 They don't enforce it, though :-D Posted by: 98ZJUSMC

If it were a liberal idea, they would subsidize it.

Posted by: Jean at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (4JkHl)

202 ot

I didn't know this was happening today:

Enforcing the PresidentÂ’s Constitutional Duty to Faithfully Execute the Laws

http://tinyurl.com/ndz32kt

live stream at link

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (IXrOn)

203 I thought I heard off duty cops in TX are required to carry

Posted by: thunderb at February 26, 2014 07:27 AM (zOTsN)

204 There are good trends happening in America. I think the credit for this shift falls 99% on pro gun grassroots movements, and 1% on Repubs in DC. It's amazing how many incredibly good well researched pro gun articles you can find written by various internet bloggers. I remember a socialist-leaning friend on facebook linking one such article, and saying that the gun control movement is fundamentally dishonest and ultimately about banning guns. Think about this; the conservative pro gun crowd made their point so eloquently that even young socialists who don't like guns acknowledged that the conservatives were right on this issue.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 26, 2014 07:28 AM (7NvBG)

205 The psycho, who has kidnapped his wife and kid, is challenged by an "old white guy in jeans, carrying," who's gun goes off after being shot at first, hitting the little girl, and gets himself shot. It does end well, though. The wife picks up the old man's gun and kills her deranged husband. Shit goes pear shaped for the "experts" too. I'll take my chances with joe six pack. So would my dog.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 07:28 AM (CRyse)

206 So I'm about to leave to catch a flight to Austria. Been looking up how to speak a few words in Austrian but everything I find says that the people there all speak English. Oh, and German. No Austrian though, strange.

Posted by: mugiwara at February 26, 2014 07:28 AM (W7ffl)

207 "Guns are designed to do one thing. Propel a bullet through a metal tube with as much accuracy as can be mustered. What that bullet is propelled toward is completely up to the user."

From instruction I actually received at Ft. Benning.

"...The Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun is designed in accord with the Geneva Conventions only to engage enemy equipment. (pause) A belt buckle is equipment.  A helmet is equipment.  It is NOT YOUR PROBLEM how close the enemy chooses to stand to his equipment..."

Posted by: Self-aware Progressive at February 26, 2014 07:28 AM (XO6WW)

208 207 Yeah,and White Phosphorous is only for marking and screening.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:29 AM (zqvg6)

209 I have a nightmare. The most dangerous person in the history of the United States of America (Attorney General Holder) announces his run for President.

Posted by: Bill at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (uvyrw)

210

157: "But you will serve if you want to vote."

 

This is actually an idea I can get fully behind. Much like Heinlein's model.

 

However, the idea that you want all public employees to be paid minimum wage is very short sighted. Some jobs require a degree of continuity to be done. Of course those jobs do not include congress critters. More like FBI, CIA, etc.

There ARE still some things that the government actually shouls be doing.

 

Take a look at the employees next time you go to McDonald's. Are THOSE the kinds of mugs you want running things?

 

But to counterbalance this, I'd support salary and benefit caps.

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (v6cwT)

211 "66 The Hoplophobes next gambit is programming the kids now in school to hate guns.

You love your gun?

Teach every kid you know to love and respect them too.

Posted by: sven10077 at February 26, 2014 11:02 AM (TE35l)"



I have a great idea for the up coming 7 year old birthday party.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (PD6iL)

212 Walking around town is ok though right?

Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 11:24 AM (GQ8sn)



It depends on the State

These are States with reciprocity on CCW with SC


http://www.youcancarry.com/south-carolina-ccw-reciprocity/


And as far as I know the law applies to everywhere in the State except (right now) bars, government buildings, and places where CCW prohibited.


There has been a law passed recently to allow it in almost all places.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (T2V/1)

213 http://www.movienewz.com/mad-max-fury-road/

One guy who was in the first movie is in this one.  Charlize Theron plays the driver of a War Rig.  Lets hope she does better in this than Prometheus.  But probably not.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (dDf+N)

214 Posted by: Self-aware Progressive at February 26, 2014 11:28 AM (XO6WW) This is one of the points made against Kerry with his Rambo tale of heroism.

Posted by: See You Next Tuesday at February 26, 2014 07:30 AM (DAevm)

215 Some people are just intractable, I guess.

One Canton still refuses to give women the vote, Appenzell Innerrhoden.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:31 AM (c6N69)

216 Posted by: B at February 26, 2014 11:23 AM (5OEha)

What ^^^^^^^ said.  Agree completely.  It is very basic, and impossible to argue against effectively.

Tell them a child is more likely to be molested by a teacher than shot by one and watch their head explode.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 26, 2014 11:24 AM (zF6Iw)


Good one.  I'll have to remember that.

Of course, the 17 year old boy bending over his 24 year old teacher isn't really molesting, to him.  Legally, of course it is - because of the authority issue if nothing else.

However, most of the publicized cases of this involve boys of about 13-15, not 17-18.

Posted by: grognard at February 26, 2014 07:31 AM (/29Nl)

217
Having access to a firearm within reach of my bed gives quite the peace of mind.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 26, 2014 07:31 AM (n0DEs)

218 115 Hollowpoint, See Care. OBAMA???? UH OOPS

Posted by: sven10077 at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (TE35l)

219 @195 Agree with every word of your comment up until the "deep down" ending.

Posted by: ontherocks at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (8AaQe)

220 Azenogoth: Part of Heinlein's model was finding something for a retard to do if he volunteered.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (c6N69)

221 it's amazing how you can turn lefties around by taking them out to shoot. not all of us had dads and grandads that taught us to be crack shots by 8 years old. in fact I'm always amazed how many of them have never hunted or fished in their lives. 9 out of 10 will love shooting. anyway, they really do need the education. they really don't know that a semi-auto is not a machine gun or that a shotgun is not a rifle. and when they start talking about buying a gun you know they're just about to outgrow being in the democrat party.

Posted by: X at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (KHo8t)

222 EC , as far as I know you're correct in your carry legality .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (whqez)

223 Nooood.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/u][/b][/i] at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (4df7R)

224 185 The new Mad Max movie plot? It is rumoured to take place between the first and second movies. Sounds better than a reboot. Watch the world collapsing. Mad Max was on the brink, some amount of civilization was left. Road Warrior the world was well over the cliff, as was Max. So there is a story to tell. What happened between the two.

Posted by: blaster at February 26, 2014 07:32 AM (4+AaH)

225 So far, the new MM movie sounds like some Starship Troopers bullshit.

Posted by: maddogg at February 26, 2014 07:33 AM (xWW96)

226 And as far as I know the law applies to everywhere in the State except (right now) bars, government buildings, and places where CCW prohibited.

So my NC permit will allow me to carry in public?

Do you know if reciprocity means I can carry in bars and restaurants if I don't drink alcohol, unless posted?


Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 07:33 AM (GQ8sn)

227 Nood.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 26, 2014 07:33 AM (CRyse)

228 224 Well,I think after what happened to his family he left the more civilized part and drove into the badlands.It's possible some civilization remained along the coasts.

Posted by: steevy at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (zqvg6)

229 "...And the reboot is listed in post-production with a 2015 release. What kind of post-production takes a year?"

Have you ever tried to CGI testicles onto an entire cast of modern male actors?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (XO6WW)

230 Azenogoth: Part of Heinlein's model was finding something for a retard to do if he volunteered.


Space suit testing.


Orbital drop testing.


Ballistic armour testing.


Lots of stuff.

Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (GQ8sn)

231 >>The Hoplophobes next gambit is programming the kids now in school to hate guns.

Yes, it is truly disgusting - and clearly a coordinated approach (likely driven by the teachers unions). What they can't control is how Hollywood fetishizes (sp?) guns and all of the shoot-em up video games. I have a tween, and the only XBox games that interest him involve Legos (Minecraft) and shooting aliens.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (aq/zi)

232 "...The Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun is designed in accord with the Geneva Conventions only to engage enemy equipment. Not true. It's an urban legend that refuses to die no matter how many times it gets debunked.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (SY2Kh)

233 Tomorrow is the feast day of Saint Gabriel Possenti, the patron saint of handgunners.  (Yes, we Papists have a patron saint for everything.)


Why don't you see if you can make it to the range to bust a few caps in his honor?

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at February 26, 2014 07:34 AM (PD6iL)

234 FFS don't make me agree with Hollowpoint.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 26, 2014 07:35 AM (gBnkX)

235 "it's amazing how you can turn lefties around by taking them out to shoot. not all of us had dads and grandads that taught us to be crack shots by 8 years old. in fact I'm always amazed how many of them have never hunted or fished in their lives. 9 out of 10 will love shooting." That's really it. For people raised in liberal urban environments, guns are drenched in a sinister mystique. Their only "experience" with guns is crime shows and gangster films.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 26, 2014 07:35 AM (7NvBG)

236 I'm forever grateful to my pops for introducing us to guns at an early age. He started letting me shoot the 10/22 when i was 6. I remember always bugging him to let me shoot this badass .44mag Blackhawk he had but he would just chuckle and tell me i had to grow some muscles first. When i finally did shoot that piece, i understood what he was talking about. When our family gathers, 7 siblings, spouses,kids, everyone, to include many of the youth, brings their rifles, pistols,airguns and we spend a day at the range and no shit, it looks n sounds like a platoon shooting.Good times, good times.

Posted by: fastfreefall at February 26, 2014 07:37 AM (xEdOF)

237 EC: Sometimes you just need a human "volunteer".

The T-10 parachute was developed by making the closest thing the US Army had to a punishment battalion test parachutes.

They were slowly made smaller and smaller until the broken leg rate was in acceptable limits. Unfortunately, by that point, the entire battalion were all parachuting experts, which meant that the T-10 was way, way too fast of a parachute.

Posted by: Kristophr at February 26, 2014 07:38 AM (c6N69)

238 >>Posted by: Roadrunner at February 26, 2014 11:35 AM (7NvBG) The funniest thing is to watch a woman shoot for the first time. The unexpected enthusiasm, often glee, is awesome.

Posted by: ontherocks at February 26, 2014 07:38 AM (8AaQe)

239 EC , I think they just passed legal carry in bars and restaurants as long as you stay sober . Of course , the usual suspects started whining about shootouts started by people unhappy with their prime rib .

Posted by: awkward davies at February 26, 2014 07:38 AM (whqez)

240 So my NC permit will allow me to carry in public?

Do you know if reciprocity means I can carry in bars and restaurants if I don't drink alcohol, unless posted?


Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 11:33 AM (GQ8sn)


Yes if you mean concealed.  I don't know how they are for open carry.  Because the law hasn't made it into signing yet you can not carry in bars which are ALL located in restaurants by law. 



When the new law goes into effect you will be able to carry in bar/restaurants as long as you do not drink alcohol. I do not think that law has gone into effect yet.



The other places I meant by "prohibited" are ones that have a sign posted on the door saying no weapons".

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 07:38 AM (T2V/1)

241 Tell them a child is more likely to be molested by a teacher than shot by one and watch their head explode. Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 26, 2014 11:24 AM (zF6Iw) Secondary explosion -- tell them a child is more likely to be molested by a teacher than by a priest.

Posted by: Mindy at February 26, 2014 07:39 AM (mQwL2)

242
Arguments are useful, but people believing something on a gut level (no argument needed) is the most powerful "argument" of all. And people's daily experience provides that sort of non-argument "argument."

Posted by: ace at February 26, 2014 11:03 AM (/FnUH)









I've converted a couple of anti-gun folks by taking them to the range. I tell them that I just want to give them some first-hand experience, no politics, no attempt at bringing them over to the Dark Side, and that nobody changes their mind based on a single range trip. Of course, I'm being more than a little bit sneaky, emphasizing the fun stuff and leaving the serious part for later reflection.

Surprisingly effective, which is why leftists do their damnedest to throw up roadblocks to ANY positive aspects of teh boomsticks.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 26, 2014 07:39 AM (TIIx5)

243 Ok, awkward davies and Vic are giving me two conflicting positions.

Who is correct?  Has the law allowing CC in bars been signed or not?

Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 07:40 AM (GQ8sn)

244 195?

Exactly- I was an FFL for 19 years and kept all my inventory after closing. Mostly selective-fire stuff, including a couple of belt-feds.

I was trained by the best in the world, and like most people who've been on the hard side am actually a very peaceable soul.

But I won't put up with any nonsense, either.

Posted by: backhoe at February 26, 2014 07:41 AM (ULH4o)

245 EC I have to retract, Haley has signed the law.


http://is.gd/sepxMb

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 26, 2014 07:41 AM (T2V/1)

246 Thanks Vic.  The new SC laws sound exactly like NC's.


Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 07:44 AM (GQ8sn)

247
"...The Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun is designed in accord with the Geneva Conventions only to engage enemy equipment.








"Sir, I was NOT engaging that OPFOR soldier, that would be against UCMJ and the laws of war. I was engaging his LBE."

/Pvt Orr to my first Battalion Commander (Vietnam vet, SF, battlefield commission in VN).

Heard it with my own two ears. Made the colonel laugh, though.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 26, 2014 07:46 AM (TIIx5)

248 It's an urban legend that the instructors incorporated into their briefing when we trained on the M2. It got a laugh, which may have been all they were after at that point.  Fort Benning, Harmony Church, 2nd Training Bn.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 26, 2014 07:47 AM (XO6WW)

249 Fort Benning, Harmony Church, 2nd Training Bn.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 26, 2014 11:47 AM (XO6WW)

 

A friend of mine, a retired Sergeant Major, took me by where Harmony Church used to be when I was down there to watch my son graduate from Infantry AIT last year.

 

God I'm old.

Posted by: troyriser at February 26, 2014 07:50 AM (V9ol4)

250 What we need is a friendly pro-gun governor to convoke a state militia, and then create a one-day reserve. That is, if I don't live in that state, but I can answer a muster within 24 hours, I'm a member of a standing state militia. With papers.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 26, 2014 07:55 AM (5xmd7)

251 Britain discovered that outlawing guns then disarming their bobbies didn't work out too well, either. Once again someone forgot to inform the armed criminals.
 
I think that Ukraine pushing for a 2nd Amendment law is a wonderful development and I hope they can push it through. Once they've had  a taste of that right, they won't easily allow it to be removed in the future.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 26, 2014 07:57 AM (wNF3N)

252 Britain discovered that outlawing guns then disarming their bobbies didn't work out too well, either. Once again someone forgot to inform the armed criminals.

The police constables (PC) aren't armed.  The Metro cops are.  Those are the ones that arrive on scene with MP5's and will drop you with a burst.


Posted by: EC at February 26, 2014 08:00 AM (GQ8sn)

253 The advent of mini CNC mills and 3D printers at reasonable costs will also accelerate the trend towards more gun freedom.
 
We're having a party! BYOB (bring your own barstock).

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 26, 2014 08:03 AM (wNF3N)

254 It's an urban legend that the instructors incorporated into their briefing when we trained on the M2. It got a laugh, which may have been all they were after at that point. Possibly. I heard the same urban legend regarding the .50 BMG many times during my time in the Reserves. Eventually I looked it up. It's bogus. IIRC, it originated with the Marines. They had some sort of .50 cal sighting device on their artillery pieces. Marines- being the resourceful sort- too often were using them as weapons, so the Marine Corps brass issued a directive prohibiting them being used this way.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 26, 2014 08:10 AM (SY2Kh)

255 "Secondary explosion -- tell them a child is more likely to be molested by a teacher than by a priest."
According to FBI stats, about 200 times more likely. They like to scream "LIES!" when you bring that up.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 26, 2014 08:14 AM (zfY+H)

256 Zimmerman did not start out controversial. Race hucksters made it so. Bad news is you buy into it.

Posted by: nip at February 26, 2014 08:17 AM (SxlUl)

257 234 FFS don't make me agree with Hollowpoint. Posted by: Burn the Witch it's against your principals.

Posted by: X at February 26, 2014 08:19 AM (KHo8t)

258 While there have in fact been two well-known bad shootings (Dunn, the Popcorn Vigilante) and one legal shooting which was nevertheless controversial (Zimmerman), the facts have not been kind to this theory of America Turned Dodge City. you might wanna make that three. All in FL sad to say. The Jacksonville shooting over, supposedly, music or some such.

Posted by: WTP at February 26, 2014 08:31 AM (sPO/s)

259 Should have mentioned that Reeves (not Dunn), the Popcorn Vigilante was a retired cop.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 26, 2014 08:33 AM (9eDbm)

260 BTW, i would throw out Zimmerman. That was a "good" shooting as it was a man in fear for his life with no viable option except to either have his head bashed in and lose consciousness and/or die OR shoot the SOB.

Posted by: WTP at February 26, 2014 08:33 AM (sPO/s)

261

81

Do you mean "Me and My Uncle" isn't really happen? Still one of my fave GD tunes.

Posted by: dano at February 26, 2014 10:41 AM (B8OWU)

262 Don't worry, the left is working on creating a huge class of dependent and irresponsible people. Once the left achieves that goal, then they'll take away gun rights. I'm only sorta kidding. And yeah, I understand the right to self-defense is a natural right, not subject to any law passed by man. However, that never stops the left.

Posted by: Blake at February 26, 2014 10:56 AM (HBuxY)

263 Azenogoth @ 63-
Right there! That is the thing. My home (or my vehicle, or my family, or my person) is MINE! Don't make me use my GOD-given right to defend myself. You won't like the sentence I impose.

Posted by: Erowmero at February 26, 2014 02:34 PM (OONaw)

264 The rule? Never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to kill. Second rule? Same as the first. late to the draw...just saw this: Posted: 02/25/2014 11:07 am EST Man Accidentally Kills Self With Gun During [Drunken] Demonstration On Gun [Mishandling] "Teaching Safety" OF COURSE, THE SOURCE FOR STUPID: The Huffington Post | by Paige Lavender A man from Independence Township, Michigan, shot himself to death on Monday while teaching his girlfriend about gun safety, the Oakland Press reports. The 36-year-old man who had been drinking alcohol all day, whose name has not been released, was showing his girlfriend how his three handguns are safe when they arenÂ’t loaded, according to the Detroit Free Press. He was attempting to demonstrate the safety of the handguns by holding them to his head and pulling the trigger. The third gun fired, and the man was struck in the head. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Three children ages 7, 10, and 12 were in the home, but did not witness the shooting, according to reports.

Posted by: panzernashorn at February 26, 2014 02:38 PM (MhA4j)

265 "The 36-year-old man who had been drinking alcohol all day, whose name has not been released, was showing his girlfriend how his three handguns are safe when they arenÂ’t loaded, according to the Detroit Free Press. He was attempting to demonstrate the safety of the handguns by holding them to his head and pulling the trigger. The third gun fired, and the man was struck in the head. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Three children ages 7, 10, and 12 were in the home, but did not witness the shooting, according to reports. " Right. I hope she has video of that or another witness.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 26, 2014 04:00 PM (5xmd7)

266 We had a national conversation and guns won.

Posted by: Fretless at February 26, 2014 05:27 PM (dO4Kx)

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