January 31, 2014

MKH: The Idiot's Guide to What's Going On In The Ukraine
— Ace

Honestly, I didn't know a thing about it. Now I know slightly more than nothing-- the basics, at least.

If you've been seeing headlines like "The Good Guys Have a Real Chance in Ukraine," and then wondering who the good guys are and what exactly they have a chance at, then MKH's brief primer will be useful to you.

So now that I know the very basics, I can actually cover it, I guess.

Here's a digest of the digest: Essentially the country is split approximately in two by rival sympathies. One faction has more support in the East-- and is more influenced by, and feels more connection with, Russia. The other faction feels closer to the EU.

The Western-oriented faction would like to join the EU, and reap the benefits from that association (which benefits they see in neighboring Poland). The Eastern-oriented faction wants to take Russia's deal -- by which Russia buys a lot of credits in their economy, and thus injects a lot of needed capital into the Ukraine -- and part of that deal is, I guess, not joining the EU.

The Russia-leaning faction actually controls the country and has imposed -- get this -- tyrannical clampdowns on dissent and protest (passed into law by a... secret vote) and protesters are being killed by police brutality but of course that's embargoed on Ukraine TV and all they show are penguins. Oh wait, that's what they showed during Turkey's brutal crackdown on protesters. In the Ukraine they're showing delighted citizens delivering cookies and cake to smiling State Policemen.


Oh and check out the Podcast thread below.

Posted by: Ace at 04:02 PM | Comments (338)
Post contains 291 words, total size 2 kb.

1 First?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:03 PM (yz6yg)

2 I need a life.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:03 PM (yz6yg)

3 Yeah I still don't get this first thing.

Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 04:04 PM (/FnUH)

4 Yeah I still don't get this first thing. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ That's why I started the new slightly less lame "I'll go get the others" thing.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 04:06 PM (8FyP4)

5 Yeah I still don't get this first thing. Simple pleasures for simple minds, ace. Simple pleasures for simple minds.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:06 PM (yz6yg)

6 another orange revolution obama will help to tamp down?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 04:07 PM (FDyew)

7 Hmm, I thought it meant the Ukraine was a good place for nice guys to meet women.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at January 31, 2014 04:07 PM (S11Oq)

8 another orange revolution obama will help to tamp down? Boehner is acting up again?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:07 PM (yz6yg)

9 First 3 rules of AoS threads: Location, location, and location. #1 is prime real estate, Ace

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 04:08 PM (FDyew)

10 3 Yeah I still don't get this first thing. Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 08:04 PM (/FnUH) I don't get it either. I remember seeing it a lot at Jharles Chonson's site before he turned into the Borg. While I might have partook of it once or twice (no one is innocent on the Internet), I quickly grew tired of seeing it.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 04:08 PM (oFCZn)

11 Totally OT wit this whole mess going on in the Ukraine, but I need to tell y'all that my squaw is currently making a sammich for me. Topless.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 04:09 PM (8FyP4)

12 >> Now I know slightly less than nothing *raises hand* Shouldn't that be more than nothing.

Posted by: Andy at January 31, 2014 04:10 PM (vGQV1)

13 11 Totally OT wit this whole mess going on in the Ukraine, but I need to tell y'all that my squaw is currently making a sammich for me. Topless. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 08:09 PM (8FyP4) You know the routine...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 04:10 PM (oFCZn)

14 I don't know who is going to win but there is lots of fire and smoke at these demonstrations, to there's that.

Posted by: toby928© at January 31, 2014 04:10 PM (QupBk)

15 Totally OT wit this whole mess going on in the Ukraine, but I need to tell y'all that my squaw is currently making a sammich for me. Topless. Pics, or it's all a lie.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:10 PM (yz6yg)

16 It doesn't help the "pro-EU" cause that, first, it's... pro-EU and, second, it's got the support of the Svoboda "Freedom" Party - apparently a Golden-Dawn outfit. http://tinyurl.com/nny9lt2

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:10 PM (rAeZm)

17 If you read "The Clash of Civilizations" by Samuel P. Huntington, you would know that Ukraine is divided in two.  The western part is Catholic.  The Eastern part is Russian Orthodox.  Hence, the clash.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:11 PM (V70Uh)

18 Couple other key facts. Kiev, the capital city, is in the middle of the anti-Russian bloc, despite having pro-Russian rulers installed there. The other big strategic city is Sevestopol in the Crimea the heart of the Russian bloc. That's where Russia's Black Sea Fleet ports and is Russia's only warm-water port. Huge value strategically. Russia wants to control Kiev, in the heart of the ethnic Ukrainian half. Ukrainians want to control Sevestopol and the Crimea in the heart of the Russian half. That is part of why neither wants to split. They want to split but they also want to keep the best part of the other half.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:11 PM (ZPrif)

19 I'm impressed at how the protestors don't care if it's winter or not. In case you have not see this, pics from the protest on livejournal here as well as explanations http://zyalt.livejournal.com/986689.html

Posted by: votermom at January 31, 2014 04:11 PM (GSIDW)

20 In Peruvia the anti-government demonstrations are mainly the work of the penguins.  So the state-censored television is forced to show other animals that are apolitical.  Like manatees.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 31, 2014 04:11 PM (8ZskC)

21 Serious question for MKHam: Is what's going on in the Ukraine similar to obama's life story?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 04:12 PM (FDyew)

22 The Catholic part is part of Western Christendom.  Culturally, they are part of the West.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:12 PM (V70Uh)

23 And when I say sammich, I mean panini. She'll be rewarded.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 04:13 PM (8FyP4)

24 Ukraine should probably split. Like czechoslovakia split. Doesn't really make much sense being a single country. That or they should ethnically cleanse the Russians back to Russia. But that would start a war. Doubt Russia would allow that. So just give Russia back the eastern half. Let them have the Sevastopol port. Realistically it can't be held onto against Russia.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:13 PM (ZPrif)

25 Yeah I still don't get this first thing.


It artificially inflates the comment count, so why not?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 31, 2014 04:13 PM (8ZskC)

26 The Idiot's Guide to What's Going On In The Ukraine


The title of the book recently seen being carried by John Kerry under his foreleg.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 31, 2014 04:15 PM (8ZskC)

27 Foreign countries are strange. They do things differently there. There's another mess going on in Thailand. The demonstrators there are demonstrating against elections. Mainly because they're worried that their side won't win. The "Asian Correspondent" site is pretty good here, basically because they get to the point and call it an anti-election protest - a bunch of anarchists - and not an anti-government protest. ("Government" in the old-world sense of "the regime in power", not the new-world sense of "the Constitutional order") http://tinyurl.com/kcqzl74

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:15 PM (rAeZm)

28 Ukraine should probably split. Like czechoslovakia split. Doesn't really make much sense being a single country. That or they should ethnically cleanse the Russians back to Russia. But that would start a war. Doubt Russia would allow that. So just give Russia back the eastern half. Let them have the Sevastopol port. Realistically it can't be held onto against Russia. *** This occurred to me as well, but I don't know the makeup of their infrastructure. Where is their manufacturing centered? Where is their farming centered?, etc...

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:16 PM (DmNpO)

29 Don't make me take off my shirt and come over there.

Posted by: Vladimir Putin at January 31, 2014 04:17 PM (8ZskC)

30 Alex:  The answer is nothing.

Contestant:  What does Obama know about the difference between Western Christendom and Eastern Orthodoxy?


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:17 PM (V70Uh)

31 Don't make me take off my shirt and come over there. That's only interesting when uttered by an 'Ette.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 04:18 PM (yz6yg)

32 You can bet that when Stalin starved the Ukraine, it wasn't the eastern part.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:18 PM (V70Uh)

33 >>>Shouldn't that be more than nothing. less, more, I've heard it both ways.

Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 04:18 PM (/FnUH)

34 In the early days of the German invasion of the USSR in the summer of 1941, there was newsreal footage of the German columns rolling through Ukraine towns, to cheering crowds. I recall that a narrator to these films remarked that the y were confused, and thought these were Soviet soldiers. No, really wrong. The Ukrainians were hoping for liberation from the Soviets. And the Germans really blew it by being a ridiculously oppressive occupation force. These people would have fought by the sides of the Germans against the Soviet Union, because they clearly remembered the starvation campaign by Stalin. It's been generations, and the same struggle goes on. The real Ukranians yearn for freedom still.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 04:18 PM (+1T7c)

35 Regular Moron: in what I already linked, you can see what John McCain thinks. Flatbush Joe is probably right (he usually is) in that Ukraine should split. Divide itself into a Polish part and a Russian part, plus some Black Sea coastline as an actual part of Russia.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:19 PM (rAeZm)

36 >>>Ukraine should probably split. Like czechoslovakia split. Doesn't really make much sense being a single country. i think this about most countries. I do not understand why something abstract like a "historic border" should mean anything at all if actual humans are having a tough time working out their differences. Smaller countries are better.

Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (/FnUH)

37 The Ukraine is weak.

Posted by: cosmo at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (QupBk)

38 Stupid Ukraines.  They thought the Nazis were Catholic.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (V70Uh)

39 35 As bad as the Germans were they still got willing assistance from many.

Posted by: steevy at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (zqvg6)

40 This is way the fuck off topic..... I just saw a truly wtf story on facebook. Guy dies at the age of 82 and they give him the funeral he has been planning for 18yrs. He was buried sitting on his 1967 Harley Davidson motorcycle. The story is from the Columbus Dispatch newspaper. I don't know whether this is a great story or a tragedy.

Posted by: madamemayhem at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (S2RnE)

41 Mila Kunis Ukrainian Thread Content Compliance pic: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kqbclf3

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 31, 2014 04:20 PM (Ifouf)

42 I thought I could read this and listen to the podcast simultaneously. Apparently I cannot. Must start podcast over.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:21 PM (DmNpO)

43 Smaller countries are better.


Eh, sometimes.

Posted by: The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation at January 31, 2014 04:22 PM (8ZskC)

44 42 I'll put up a picture of her in her " Barack the Vote" tee shirt and kill your boners.

Posted by: steevy at January 31, 2014 04:22 PM (zqvg6)

45 I still think they should have kept their nukes. They had something like 2000 warheads in stock.

Posted by: toby928© at January 31, 2014 04:22 PM (QupBk)

46 i think this about most countries. I do not understand why something abstract like a "historic border" should mean anything at all if actual humans are having a tough time working out their differences. Smaller countries are better. *** We've apparently shed several of the 57 states since Obama became POTUS.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:22 PM (DmNpO)

47 i think this about most countries. I do not understand why something abstract like a "historic border" should mean anything at all if actual humans are having a tough time working out their differences. Smaller countries are better. Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 08:20 PM (/FnUH) I think it's just vested interests that complain the most. Can't upset that lucrative apple cart. What are they worried about really? That they might have to buy a new globe?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 04:22 PM (oFCZn)

48 "The Western-oriented faction would like to join the EU, and reap the benefits from that association (which benefits they see in neighboring Poland)."

It's actually far from certain that Ukraine would do any better with the EU than with Russia. 

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at January 31, 2014 04:23 PM (DPMu1)

49 Smaller countries are better.

Posted by: ace

Only in a world with a benign 'hegemon' providing a general peaceful order, and those days are coming to an end.

Posted by: weft cut-loop[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2014 04:23 PM (cxs6V)

50 OK, time to reward her. Back in four minutes.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 04:23 PM (8FyP4)

51 10 While I might have partook of it once or twice (no one is innocent on the Internet), I quickly grew tired of seeing it. Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 08:08 PM (oFCZn) You're just like the crony capitalists. You got to be First! a couple of times and now you want to pull up the drawbridge after you, denying everyone else that pleasure. Also, I remember that Jharles Chonson started banhammering people over that. He was already well on the road to douchehood by then, though.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 04:24 PM (sdi6R)

52 Although now that I've actually, you know, thought about it and already posted it could also be because it's a message that diversity doesn't work. And as we all know that's a big no-no message to send to the western world. Some uppity people might start having dangerous and unapproved thoughts.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 04:24 PM (oFCZn)

53 1 Sean Bannion,

#17 in your programs but #1 in our hearts Sean....

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (TE35l)

54 Holodomor 2: Stalin's Boogaloo?

Posted by: Zombie Iosef Stalin at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (XvHmy)

55 We've apparently shed several of the 57 states since Obama became POTUS. To the extent South Korea and Japan are (by treaty) US protectorates, and are now casting about for help from / against China and India because they don't trust the US to help them anymore . . . You're more right than you know

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (rAeZm)

56 This is way the fuck off topic..... I just saw a truly wtf story on facebook. Guy dies at the age of 82 and they give him the funeral he has been planning for 18yrs. He was buried sitting on his 1967 Harley Davidson motorcycle. The story is from the Columbus Dispatch newspaper. I don't know whether this is a great story or a tragedy. Posted by: madamemayhem It was a great story. The guy loved his Harley, loved the open road, loved riding. He rode everywhere except Hawaii. A bunch of his old friends that he rode with sang at his funeral. It was weird, as he was embalmed, sitting on his Harley, in a glass case as the went to the cemetary to bury him, but it was the thing the guy loved. He left behind 4 kids , 8 grandkids and 21 great grandchildren. They all loved the old guy.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (+1T7c)

57 If you look at why countries split up, language is the #1 factor. Religion is #2. Ethnic difference are easier to overcome than language and religious difference. Of course, language and ethnicity are strongly linked. But if you can get two ethnic groups to speak the same language they can learn to coexist. Still amazing to me that India holds together. Of course, it already had a huge split by religion when Pakistan and Bangladesh split off. But it's stunning that a multi-linguistic, multi-religious, multi-ethnic society like India doesn't splinter into a dozen countries.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (ZPrif)

58 Hmm, I was wondering about that.  I receive monthly packages from the Ukraine.  No interuption so far.  Must come from the western/capitalist side.

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2014 04:25 PM (6bvBO)

59 it's amazing it's not being reported in the msn

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 27 days until spring training at January 31, 2014 04:26 PM (u8GsB)

60 53 Dack Thrombosis,

It also kind of exposes the big lie that the Soviet Union wasn't simply the Russian Empire under new management....

The US is sort of unique in the founders of the nation being told THEY are subhuman though.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:26 PM (TE35l)

61 The problem with Ukraine is it's full of Ukrainians.
 
Seriously though, I wish the rebels good fortune. At least someone is trying to give Putin an ulcer.

Posted by: GnuBreed Longshanks at January 31, 2014 04:26 PM (cHZB7)

62 But it's stunning that a multi-linguistic, multi-religious, multi-ethnic society like India doesn't splinter into a dozen countries. *** multi-class....

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:26 PM (DmNpO)

63
E U or Russia.  Tough choice. 

They should trade with Peruvia.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 31, 2014 04:27 PM (n0DEs)

64 Smaller countries are much less likely to capsize.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 31, 2014 04:27 PM (8FyP4)

65 i think this about most countries. I do not understand why something abstract like a "historic border" should mean anything at all if actual humans are having a tough time working out their differences.

Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 08:20 PM (/FnUH)

I'm increasingly thinking it about the USA.  If red and blue states weren't already part of the same country, they'd never join together, the political and cultural differences are too great.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at January 31, 2014 04:27 PM (DPMu1)

66 The photos coming out of there have been incredible.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:27 PM (DmNpO)

67 I love this quote from the article.... "He taught his kids to live by a code: “You don’t lie. You don’t steal. If you can’t say something to someone’s face, you don’t say it to their neighbors or their coworkers,” said his daughter, Theresa Adams. “If you can’t get what you want by working, you don’t deserve to have it.”

Posted by: madamemayhem at January 31, 2014 04:28 PM (S2RnE)

68 So there is this one side, and then there is this other side, and the two sides don't agree. So it kinda looks like a fight might break out depending on if the outsiders take sides and stir the two side up.

Kinda like here in the US.

Posted by: Desparing Mind at January 31, 2014 04:28 PM (7LeWC)

69 50 Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 31, 2014 08:23 PM (cxs6V)

Well we uh don't do the benign hegemon thing anymore...

we're too busy providing Radical Islam air cover these days.

If the Ogabe economy and foreign policy are the best the United States can do...it is time we nation build literally here at home.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:28 PM (TE35l)

70 But it's stunning that a multi-linguistic, multi-religious, multi-ethnic society like India doesn't splinter into a dozen countries.

***

multi-class....

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Mool-ti-pass?

Posted by: lee-loo[/i] [/b] at January 31, 2014 04:28 PM (cxs6V)

71 I'm increasingly thinking it about the USA. If red and blue states weren't already part of the same country, they'd never join together, the political and cultural differences are too great. **** Within a generation the red states would be begging us to join with them again.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:29 PM (DmNpO)

72 It is really very interesting.  In the West, the Roman church often challenged the Rulers.  In the East, the Church sucked up to the Tsar's teat. Cultural differences.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:29 PM (V70Uh)

73 35 No, really wrong. The Ukrainians were hoping for liberation from the Soviets. And the Germans really blew it by being a ridiculously oppressive occupation force. These people would have fought by the sides of the Germans against the Soviet Union, because they clearly remembered the starvation campaign by Stalin. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 08:18 PM (+1T7c) I mean, really. How fucking bad were the Soviets to make people welcome fucking NAZIS as liberators? The mind reels.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 04:29 PM (sdi6R)

74 I spent a year in Lithuania and taught a lot of Ukranian students. I really liked them. I liked my Russian students too, but they were harder edged than the Ukranians. Anyway, Ukraine is divided into two groups that goes way back. The youth are basically with the western push. Any that aren't are probably kind Russian jingoists. I had one students -- a great kid, actually -- who was pro-Soviet. He even liked Stalin. To him, and a bunch of young Russians, they lost something of their greatness when perostroika and glasnost came in and the Soviet Union fell apart. I'm rambling here but wish to say, Up with the Ukrainian youth and western push. I'm done.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at January 31, 2014 04:29 PM (deaac)

75 66 Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at January 31, 2014 08:27 PM (DPMu1)

I plan on doing my part to cultivate state and local politicians who try to make that the new normal...

maybe we can trade the blue states a repeal of the 22d for break-up...

Let them elect the fucker AGAIN

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:29 PM (TE35l)

76 uh... dangit. The BLUE states would be begging the red states to merge again

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:30 PM (DmNpO)

77 Which side has the most al Qaeda members?

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at January 31, 2014 04:30 PM (i9vov)

78 Smaller countries are better.

Smaller states here may be better too. Splitting up Cali seems reasonable to me. It was made a giant state well before it was populated by people that appear to have very different interests.

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 04:31 PM (TI3xG)

79 Still amazing to me that India holds together. It helped that Nehru and various Gandhis massacred lots of Sikhs and swamped Assam (historically and geographically more Burmese) with subcontinentals.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:31 PM (rAeZm)

80 77 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 08:30 PM (DmNpO)

Fence building would be the new national sport.

I figure we can skip the border patrol and just give good ole boys a six pack for every foreign scalp they bring in.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:31 PM (TE35l)

81 Ukrainia is fully surrounded by Peruvia, like Soweto is in South Africa. Of course this fcuking atlas is really old, and printed in Peruvia.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Hibernian Hooligan at January 31, 2014 04:32 PM (qTirZ)

82 The appeal of being part of bigger collective is, in many ways, just status. It's fun being the big guy. You get a bigger army and international prestige and win lots of Olympic gold medals. There's the real world thing that having the bigger army offers greater protection, as well. In a peaceful world with a peaceful hegemon moving to smaller countries makes a lot of sense. But in a violent world where big foreigners start imposing their will by force I can see why bigger units make sense. In the near future (few decades), India will probably start having a lot of the trappings of the big stud countries - big ass military, space program, crap like that. If the Indian Empire split up into its constituent parts none of the individual parts would be able to afford that. Pooling resources matters a lot when it comes to military might.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:32 PM (ZPrif)

83 78 Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at January 31, 2014 08:30 PM (i9vov)

Why do you and Uncle Jan wet your pants at the thought of we veterans getting our insurgency on there champ?

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:32 PM (TE35l)

84 Smaller countries are better. Posted by: ace at January 31, 2014 08:20 PM (/FnUH) How you doin'?

Posted by: Lichtenstein at January 31, 2014 04:32 PM (XvHmy)

85 I mean, really. How fucking bad were the Soviets to make people welcome fucking NAZIS as liberators? The mind reels. And now it's happening again, if Svoboda wins.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:33 PM (rAeZm)

86 77 uh... dangit. The BLUE states would be begging the red states to merge again Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 08:30 PM (DmNpO) No, you were right the first time. The Democrat states deserve to be called Red states, and ought to be.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 04:34 PM (sdi6R)

87 >> Must start podcast over. Podcast we much.

Posted by: Andy at January 31, 2014 04:34 PM (vGQV1)

88 Fence building would be the new national sport. I figure we can skip the border patrol and just give good ole boys a six pack for every foreign scalp they bring in. *** The dividing of assets should prove interesting. They get TSA assets, we get National Guard. They get the NSA. We get the CIA.....

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:34 PM (DmNpO)

89 87 Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 08:33 PM (rAeZm)

It's taking baby steps here....

Donkey is not planning on deweaponizing the civil service anytime soon, and in case you missed it the GOP is not in the "retaliatory" biz...

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:34 PM (TE35l)

90 I mean, really. How fucking bad were the Soviets to make people welcome fucking NAZIS as liberators? The mind reels. Posted by: rickl Read "Bloodlands", about the lands between Soviet Russia and Germany between the wars, and into WWII. The mind boggles at mans cruelty toward man. And remember that NAZI didn't have the connotation that it has today. And the regular German Army was not riddled with ardent Nazi enthusiasts. The Gauleiters that came afterward to rule the occupied lands WERE very corrupt and cruel Nazi loyalists.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 04:35 PM (+1T7c)

91 Ukraine also has the problem of eastern european demographics. No babies. Population shrinking. Drunken menfolk.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:35 PM (ZPrif)

92 I mean, really. How fucking bad were the Soviets to make people welcome fucking NAZIS as liberators? The mind reels.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 08:29 PM (sdi6R)


IIRC, by that time, Stalin had already done the famines. That won't win him many fans in that part of the world.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at January 31, 2014 04:35 PM (IPz9m)

93 How you doin'? Posted by: Lichtenstein at January 31, 2014 08:32 PM (XvHmy) **** Pfft

Posted by: The Vatican at January 31, 2014 04:35 PM (DmNpO)

94 On topic, I suppose. My name links to the Jawa Report's thread on Ukraine's Got Talent: World's Best Pole Dancer.

Posted by: wooga at January 31, 2014 04:35 PM (c5TBq)

95 I feel bad for the people of Ukraine.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2014 04:36 PM (9GG/0)

96 A fight without the involvement of the Religion of Peace? WTF?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 31, 2014 04:36 PM (HVff2)

97 Drunken menfolk.

don't see the issue there

Posted by: chemjeff at January 31, 2014 04:36 PM (9GG/0)

98 But it's stunning that a multi-linguistic, multi-religious, multi-ethnic society like India doesn't splinter into a dozen countries. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 08:25 PM (ZPrif) There is one big commonality: English legacy. There is a reason why in India there are so many lively langueages. Hindi will never be the lingua franca because many despise it. English is the acceptable lingua franca there, and non-Hindi speakers would rather speak that than a single word of Hindi

Posted by: The Political Hat at January 31, 2014 04:37 PM (XvHmy)

99 Drunken menfolk.>>

That last one describes the ONT here.

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 04:37 PM (TI3xG)

100 Ukrainians were the 2nd most eager people to help Nazis get rid of Jews. 1st of course being Poland.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 04:37 PM (0LHZx)

101
Ukraine also has the problem of eastern european demographics. No babies. Population shrinking.
Drunken menfolk.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 08:35 PM (ZPrif)









Not to mention "all the fertile, nubile women emigrate to the West to become strippers".


Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 31, 2014 04:37 PM (aYjRw)

102 O/T All the women on "Bones" are beautiful.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:38 PM (V70Uh)

103 >>>Back in four minutes. What are you, some kind of Olympic athlete?

Posted by: DC in Towson at January 31, 2014 04:38 PM (eQJwb)

104 102 Ukrainians were the 2nd most eager people to help Nazis get rid of Jews. 1st of course being Poland.

Au contraire!

Posted by: Vichy Frenchies at January 31, 2014 04:39 PM (9GG/0)

105 English is the language of the Indian elite, but most Indians don't speak English. Indian friend of mine remarked that the day she moved to America, she could travel around America better than she could travel around India. Cause outside the big cities nobody spoke English. She spoke English and Hindi and couldn't communicate with most of her countrymen.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:40 PM (ZPrif)

106
How you doin'?
Posted by: Lichtenstein at January 31, 2014 08:32 PM (XvHmy)


****

Pfft

Posted by: The Vatican at January 31, 2014 08:35 PM (DmNpO)








Pikers, the lot of you.

Posted by: Sealand at January 31, 2014 04:40 PM (aYjRw)

107 Yeah, rampant abortion-induced sterility also not good for the birth rate.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:40 PM (ZPrif)

108 It is really very interesting. In the West, the Roman church often challenged the Rulers. In the East, the Church sucked up to the Tsar's teat. Cultural differences. based on historical differences. The Roman church was based in Italy which didn't have a united state until recently (and when it united, it was and is weak). The Roman church was generally independent of foreign nations, if we exclude a couple of Byzantine interventions and that unfortunate Avignon episode. In the East, the Byzantine Emperor tended to assert the old Imperial prerogative, to appoint his high priests. Later on when the Empire contracted into a Greek concern, they spun this into "asserting independence from Rome", like the Copts had asserted independence from Constantinople. Most Slavs got Christianised from Byzantium. (Poles, Croats, Czechs excepted.) So they tended to treat church / state relations in a Late Roman fashion.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:41 PM (rAeZm)

109 Moo moo,

So, if the 2% of the Polish pop helped the Nazis kill Jews, and 1% of the Ukraines did, where do the French come in?

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:41 PM (V70Uh)

110 Russia has a flat tax.
Unlike us in the USA.

Posted by: navybrat at January 31, 2014 04:41 PM (AW7Gr)

111 Posted by: Regular Moron at January 31, 2014 08:32 PM (oGrEy)
 
I was just snarking. Per Gabe's link this morning on Ukraine, the eastern half speaks Russian while the western half speaks Ukrainian, which, unlike Austrian, is a real language. So there is a lingual and religious divide there.
 
I always root for the Tea Party types.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 31, 2014 04:42 PM (cHZB7)

112 Re the former prime minister, Timoshenko, she was accused of corruption and jailed, a roman a clef by a former MI-6 officer, who go's by the psuedonym of Dryden, had his last novel, 'the Blind Spy' set in the Ukraine, on the eve of a Russian coup attempt,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at January 31, 2014 04:42 PM (Jsiw/)

113 92 Read "Bloodlands", about the lands between Soviet Russia and Germany between the wars, and into WWII. The mind boggles at mans cruelty toward man. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 08:35 PM (+1T7c) Two totalitarian collectivist systems, which had zero regard for the individual. The Ukrainians were caught between a rock and a hard place, all right.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 04:42 PM (sdi6R)

114 A (Ukrainian) lurker shouts out: it's not "The Ukraine." We don't call it "The Ukraine" in conversations. "Ukraine."

Posted by: LawVic at January 31, 2014 04:42 PM (7DLAW)

115 Ace must have hit the bottle hard before recording the podcast.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:44 PM (DmNpO)

116 France is literally "the France" in French though.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:44 PM (rAeZm)

117 This linguistic divide is also why, for those who want America to not divide, the most important thing is to get the huge wave of latin american immigrants to become English fluent. They are, just much slower than all other groups. Still a large contingent of 3rd generation immigrants (ie their granddad moved here) who still are Spanish-dominant. The more spanish-speakers are spread around the county the faster they assimilate. It's like surface area. They melt faster the more surface area is exposed to English. In spanish ghettos though, millions can live in the bubble and not interact or need English skills.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 04:44 PM (ZPrif)

118 I posted a link on another thread of protesters setting fire to the riot cops. They were landing some solid hits on them. So, this is no longer a friendly squabble between cousins, of this we can be sure.

Posted by: navybrat at January 31, 2014 04:44 PM (AW7Gr)

119 96 On topic, I suppose. My name links to the Jawa Report's thread on Ukraine's Got Talent: World's Best Pole Dancer.

Posted by: wooga at January 31, 2014 08:35 PM (c5TBq)


holy shit that is awesome

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:45 PM (9GG/0)

120 So, if the 2% of the Polish pop helped the Nazis kill Jews, and 1% of the Ukraines did, where do the French come in? Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 08:41 PM (V70Uh) ___________ About 90% of Polish Jews were killed. Compare that to French Jews where the % killed was around 25% and the USSR as a whole was 35%. Not even close.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 04:45 PM (0LHZx)

121 Well, we do sometimes speak of "The US".

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 04:46 PM (sdi6R)

122 I think that they should partner with Youtube and sell their Kraines online through do it yourself Home Improvement Videos and possibly Crossborder Illegal Immigrant Transportation Services.

Posted by: ontherocks at January 31, 2014 04:47 PM (beQa5)

123 119 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 31, 2014 08:44 PM (ZPrif)

No the most important thing is to divide...

Hell in defeat and I fully expect us to lose this fall I need to weaponize Amigo Grande! against Washington DC thanks....

La Raza is about to be my new best friend Amigo...

"by whatever means are necessary"...

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:47 PM (TE35l)

124 Earth Pics ‏@EARTHPlCS Jan 30 Orthodox priest trying to prevent a clash between demonstrators and the police in Kiev, Ukraine http://t.co/McAKSNac2u

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:47 PM (DmNpO)

125 Moo Moo, please cite your sources.  I am thinking that all Jews in France got sent to Birkenau. 

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:48 PM (V70Uh)

126 grasswire ‏@grasswire Jan 30 #Ukraine: Opposition protesters train with shields and a sword in the center of Kiev #euromaidan - http://t.co/FWjLFv6J6N

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:48 PM (DmNpO)

127 The Soviet Union added the a big chunk of Russian territory to the Ukraine republic back in the 1954(no one seems to know why). Half the country really is Russian and should be part of Russia again.

Posted by: Bob at January 31, 2014 04:48 PM (7us0J)

128 In addition to getting most of their oil and gas from Russia, Ukraine is a major transit point for pipelines from Russia to the EU. The EU gets about 25% of their oil and gas from Russia. Oil and gas are the largest sector of the Russian economy. Putin even has a doctorate (Doctor Vlad?) and his thesis was all about natural resources being the key to not just Russia's economy but a tool to be used for power. Look at a pipeline map. Putin isn't giving up on the Ukraine anymore than he gave up on Syria and for the same reason.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2014 04:49 PM (g1DWB)

129 126 Earth Pics ‏@EARTHPlCS Jan 30
Orthodox priest trying to prevent a clash between demonstrators and the police in Kiev, Ukraine http://t.co/McAKSNac2u

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 08:47 PM (DmNpO)


that is a very brave man, wow

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:49 PM (9GG/0)

130 127 Moo Moo, please cite your sources. I am thinking that all Jews in France got sent to Birkenau. Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 08:48 PM (V70Uh) __________ Google "holocaust percentage by country" and you'll see all sorts of sources. I know it's rule #1 of being a conservative to hate the French. But in this instance, they French were at the bottom of the list in terms of Jew killing.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 04:50 PM (0LHZx)

131 Corruption in the Ukraine government.

Well, you also have to remember that the liberal left calls US conservatives 'extremists', so one needs to be a little suspicious.

There probably is 'corruption' but just because an anonymous highly placed government source with knowledge of the situation whispers something into a journalist's ear doesn't make it true.

The take away is, one side is being a bit dictatorial, and the other side a bet rebellious, and there are two out side parties with political interest and money who want one or the other side to win.

Lose the dogs of war and cry "Wolverines!"

Posted by: Desparing Mind at January 31, 2014 04:50 PM (7LeWC)

132 131 Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2014 08:49 PM (g1DWB)

It's amazing what having a national leader who gives a shit about his nation's future and economic stability can do for you ain't it Jack?

Putin is doing HIS job...and SCOAMF is doing the job on our asses.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:50 PM (TE35l)

133 Moo Moo is actually not trolling this time http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/bldied.htm France's proportion of murdered Jews is a lot less than Poland's

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:50 PM (rAeZm)

134 About 90% of Polish Jews were killed. Compare that to French Jews where the % killed was around 25% and the USSR as a whole was 35%.

Not even close.>>

Is anyone in Poland currently  having antisemitic street protests?

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 04:51 PM (TI3xG)

135 Six million plus Polish got killed in WWII. Half were not Jewish. If you disagree, show your work. Posted by: Regular Moron at January 31, 2014 08:48 PM (oGrEy) ________ Dude are you seriously saying that Poles didn't gleefully help the Germans? Good fucking lord.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 04:51 PM (0LHZx)

136 100, "There (India) is one big commonality: English legacy. ..." ,  Imperialism got a bad rap.

The Post has been presenting this since it started in November.
some doulbleu's then kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-jan-28-live-updates-335735.html

I admire their courage. ...and also, that Yulia Tymoshenko aspect.

Posted by: CO at January 31, 2014 04:51 PM (faahM)

137 129 The Soviet Union added the a big chunk of Russian territory to the Ukraine republic back in the 1954(no one seems to know why). Half the country really is Russian and should be part of Russia again.

Posted by: Bob at January 31, 2014 08:48 PM (7us0J)


that is obvious. it's rusification.  the Soviets did the same thing with the baltic republics. they'd deliberately import loyal russians into the republic in order to water down and dilute the opposition. they just did it directly to the ukraine via land transfer.

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:51 PM (9GG/0)

138 Is anyone in Poland currently having antisemitic street protests? Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 08:51 PM (TI3xG) _______ No need to. They killed all their Jews.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 04:51 PM (0LHZx)

139 I don't speak for the French. Nor think of them much. Except for the leader tapping the actress. Hat tip. On the related note defending "Ukraine" as the proper reference to the nation, you'll never hear me say "Ukrainian-American" when describing my ethnic heritage. The way I hear people spout the hyphenation BS unless they were born overseas and never naturalized is deportation worthy. Several years of Ukrainian school and still speaking it with our mother doesn't overshadow that I was born here and swore an oath to protect this nation and Constitution. Sadly, many of the retards I grew up with (from much more privileged socio-economic backgrounds and wealthy Chicago suburbs) have found it trendy to pursue our "true European roots" and venture to Ukraine on their family's dimes to "be one with the people"...just like "Obama is one with us in our struggles here." I shit you not. Here: Tea Party = racist traitors, afraid of other cultures and dismissive of CULTURED EUROPEAN ECONOMICS! There: Noble revolutionaries tired of being tread upon by crony Russian powers!

Posted by: LawVic at January 31, 2014 04:52 PM (7DLAW)

140 Felicity Morse ‏@FelicityMorse Jan 30 Pictures coming out of Ukraine are unbelievable http://t.co/y09xaZTaxK

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:52 PM (DmNpO)

141 France's proportion of murdered Jews is a lot less than Poland's

Dammit, we couldn't even surrender right

Posted by: Vichy Frenchies at January 31, 2014 04:52 PM (9GG/0)

142 and here's a pick of riot police readying Molotovs http://t.co/0Ouuk9cx6g

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 04:54 PM (DmNpO)

143 but really, we could use some more Ukrainian pole dancers

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:54 PM (9GG/0)

144 Mr Moo Moo, do you know any Ukrainian pole dancers? if so, plz tell them to post pics, thx

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (9GG/0)

145 I don't know the truth.  But I don't accept anyone's statistics lies.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (V70Uh)

146 People!, people! Let's not quibble aboot whoo kilt whoo.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (FDyew)

147 So if you get the chance to see the unaired pilot of Sherlock it is a fascinating piece in cmparative production values.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (TE35l)

148 maybe Mr Moo Moo is really a Ukrainian pole dancer

Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (9GG/0)

149 I'm in. Those Ukrainian Pole Dancers need dollar bills to make it through nursing school.

Posted by: LawVic at January 31, 2014 04:56 PM (7DLAW)

150 Here's the thing. Moo Moo is a jerk. And he's historically been a troll and chickenf*cker in threads beforehand. But here he's right. Poland was objectively (much) more hostile to its Jewish population than France was to its own. Especially if you consider that even the "French" Jews who went to the gas were disproportionately immigrants from pogroms in... Poland. So even the French Jews who were killed weren't all that French. This is not to excuse what the collaborators and the Vichy boys did. But it should put it into some perspective.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:57 PM (rAeZm)

151 Dude are you seriously saying that Poles didn't gleefully help the Germans? Good fucking lord.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 08:51 PM (0LHZx)



I know you're just trolling as usual, but your comments are a good example of a little information is a dangerous thing.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 04:57 PM (OIEN+)

152 >>It's amazing what having a national leader who gives a shit about his nation's future and economic stability can do for you ain't it Jack? Well it ain't all about love for the motherland. Putin and Medvedev are both up to their armpits in Gazprom. Medvedev was even the head of Gazprom under Putin before keeping Putin's chair warm for a couple years. But in this case what's good for Russia is good for Putin or vice versa.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 31, 2014 04:57 PM (g1DWB)

153 "weren't all that French" - should be emphasised here that they were victims of Poles and Russians before they were victims of the French

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 04:58 PM (rAeZm)

154 No need to. They killed all their Jews.>>

Well I have to admit you have a good point there. I'll step out of this discussion since it appears I appear to be illiterate in it. I was more trying to highlight the antisemitism currently in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 04:58 PM (TI3xG)

155 sven, isn't the pilot just a differently edited version of the first episide?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 04:58 PM (FDyew)

156 145 - NDH

Jesus, you know it's bad when the damn COPS are throwing molotovs.

I gotta tell you, I'm 3/4 Russian, but 100% American, so I say freely, fcuk those fcuking Ruskies. Hope Ukraine can make Vlad stick it where the sun don't shine. They deserve a little payback for the Holodmor.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 04:59 PM (Vvg+J)

157 I posted this the other day. Pics of some of the protesters, worth a look: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 04:59 PM (aDwsi)

158 It's not "Those Ukrainian Pole Dancers."

It's "Ukrainian Pole Dancers."

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 04:59 PM (V70Uh)

159 Greetings: Ukraine was one of the country's that Samuel P. Huntington identified as "divided" in his Clash of Civilizations sense. No only is there ethnic Russian and Ukrainian population mixing but also a religious one with, if I remember correctly, Greek Orthodox in the West and Russian Orthodox in the East. While the religious divide hasn't yet seemed to raise its ugly head, I would offer the Sudans as an example where what for years was presented as a Muslim-Christian conflict has now evolved into an ethnic Dinka-Noor conflict in the newly created South Sudan. It's never over 'til it's over.

Posted by: 11B40 at January 31, 2014 05:00 PM (dgk55)

160 Shart Tank is on, people who apparently aren't interested.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:00 PM (FDyew)

161 "I don't know the truth. But I don't accept anyone's statistics lies." You don't accept Holocaust statistics from reputable sources (I'm not talking Moo Moo, I'm talking about what I linked, or what you can google yourself)?

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 05:00 PM (rAeZm)

162 And the "French" anti-Israeli and/or anti-Jewish protests aren't really "French". The vast majority of the protesters are Muslim immigrants who now live in France. It's not Jean-Guy who is protesting it's Ahmed Mohammed.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 05:00 PM (0LHZx)

163 No, The Ukrainian Catholic Church is in communion with Rome.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:01 PM (V70Uh)

164 I posted this the other day. Pics of some of the protesters, worth a look: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html *** Just stunning

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:01 PM (DmNpO)

165 I don't know that much about the Ukraine, except that I have a weakness for the women, from what I have seen. There is a pic of Ukraine Army Women marching in uniform and formation and it is among the hottest things I have ever laid eyes on. Right up there on the list.

Posted by: navybrat at January 31, 2014 05:02 PM (AW7Gr)

166 @165 -

I really hope you meant "Shark" Tank.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:02 PM (Vvg+J)

167 what did I say aboot quibbling?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:03 PM (FDyew)

168 Posted by: navybrat at January 31, 2014 09:02 PM (AW7Gr) ___________ I see what you mean. http://www.flickr.com/photos/23591828@N04/2526891679/

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at January 31, 2014 05:03 PM (0LHZx)

169 Ukrainian pole dancers are stealing good paying American pole dancer jobs. Even worse, pole dancing was invented right here in the US, by a stainless steel pipe salesman struggling to meet his quota.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 31, 2014 05:03 PM (cHZB7)

170 "You are entitled to your opinion.  You are not entitled to you own facts."


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:04 PM (V70Uh)

171 Insane in the Ukraine Its insane the Ukraine. That's all I got.

Posted by: freaked at January 31, 2014 05:04 PM (JdEZJ)

172 160 Soothsayer, Not precisely. Similar script, definitely more polished in te broadcast version. No Mycroft, just as I said fascinating to observe the budgetary impact on production values. Barts' Collegelooks different, as does the shrink's office. Definitely wrth a watch, the mood is very different the unaired pilot's narrative voice is a different tone almost like the CBS show's IMHO.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 05:04 PM (TE35l)

173 aren't they both the Pink Phone episode??

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:05 PM (FDyew)

174 Jimbo: "You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to you own facts." "I am thinking that all Jews in France got sent to Birkenau." You need to recant your facts.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 05:06 PM (rAeZm)

175 Multiple live feeds from Kiev (EuroMaiden Square).  7 hours ahead of EST

http://ua-selector.in/

Kiev news blog (English)

http://www.kyivpost.com/

Posted by: NCwoof at January 31, 2014 05:06 PM (aUQgu)

176 "Reputable sources?"  I hope neither Wikipedia nor Islamic Jihad are cited.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:06 PM (V70Uh)

177 161 WolfInNC, I'd prefer the Ukraine to win, but I know we wil do nothing to aid. Free the US from DC

Posted by: sven10077 at January 31, 2014 05:06 PM (TE35l)

178 pole dancing was invented right here in the US, by a stainless steel pipe salesman struggling to meet his quota. ---------------- Heh. I think it is Big Stainless trying to shoulder in on the virtual monopoly that Big Brass has on Fire Station poles.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:06 PM (aDwsi)

179 I really hope you meant "Shark" Tank. Posted by: WolfinNC Mark Cuban is pretty flatulent. Well, that's what I heard!

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 31, 2014 05:07 PM (+1T7c)

180 Looking at those photos kinda makes one want to man the barricades, no?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:09 PM (aDwsi)

181 After the way Europe shit on us during Iraq? Sorry, we don't have a dog in this fight.

Posted by: Oschisms at January 31, 2014 05:10 PM (QZkKQ)

182 Compare and contrast:  "Bonhoeffer" by Eric Metaxas and "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boon.

What is your issue with percentages?  Were the Poles worse Christians than the French?  Were the Ukrainians worse Christians than the Russians?

Fuck it.  It doesn't matter.  Your argument is based upon what?

Bullshit. 

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:10 PM (V70Uh)

183 Looking at those photos kinda makes one want to man the barricades, no? Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 09:09 PM (aDwsi) Thinking of forming an Abraham Lincoln Brigade?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:11 PM (yz6yg)

184 What, 200 posts and no Duranty socks?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 31, 2014 05:11 PM (fT3qO)

185 In Peruvia the anti-government demonstrations are mainly the work of the penguins. So the state-censored television is forced to show other animals that are apolitical. Like manatees.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 31, 2014 08:11 PM (8ZskC)




I told them those little tuxedoed bastards couldn't be trusted. But did they listen to me? No they did not, and that's why they are in the shape they are in now.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 05:11 PM (yh0zB)

186 Hey Sven, oh yeah, Obama wouldn't lift a finger to help people actually fighting for freedom. That ain't his thing.

Still can't believe the riot police are throwing molotov cocktails at the protestors. That's pretty scary. But did we really expect a fight in that part of the world to be anything less than scorched earth? They have a reputation to keep up.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:11 PM (Vvg+J)

187 that is a very brave man, wow Posted by: chemjeff - UPDLF (Ukrainian Pole Dancer's Liberation Front) at January 31, 2014 08:49 PM (9GG/0) *** Indeed. Guns drawn on either side of him.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:12 PM (DmNpO)

188 Corrie Ten Boom

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:12 PM (FDyew)

189 What, 200 posts and no Duranty socks? The Cosmo Kramer sock was more appropriate here.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:12 PM (yz6yg)

190 Jewish Virtual Library: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/killedtable.html Again, Poland outranks France in the lists. I really don't know why you're being so stubborn on this, Jimbo.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 05:13 PM (rAeZm)

191 184 - Ribald Conservative

*snort*

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:13 PM (Vvg+J)

192 Still can't believe the riot police are throwing molotov cocktails at the protestors. That's pretty scary. But did we really expect a fight in that part of the world to be anything less than scorched earth? They have a reputation to keep up. *** When I first saw it I tried to imagine that they were trying disarm one of them, but that's simply not the case. It actually looks like they are lighting one from another.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:13 PM (DmNpO)

193 After the way Europe shit on us during Iraq?

Sorry, we don't have a dog in this fight.

Posted by: Oschisms at January 31, 2014 09:10 PM (QZkKQ)



There were Ukrainian soldiers in Iraq.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 05:13 PM (OIEN+)

194 A big part of the problem is that those in the western half of the country are technically Ukranians,     while    those in the eastern half are predominantly Russians, thanks to Stalin, who killed     about 8 million Ukranians and imported Russians to take their place on the collective farms.   Of course, the eastern half of the country is the agricultural area, so the    situation needs a soft touch, something that has been lacking in that region for a century or so.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 31, 2014 05:14 PM (/i3Yt)

195 I have seen the future and it is... Ukrainian Pole Dancers!

Posted by: Walter Duranty at January 31, 2014 05:14 PM (9GG/0)

196 Edible cookie dough on Shark Tank right now.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:14 PM (FDyew)

197 There is a nasty overlap between some aspects of Ukrainian nationalism and antisemitism, the examples of Petlura and Bandera, come to mind,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (Jsiw/)

198 sooth i thought it was edible....

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 27 days until spring training at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (u8GsB)

199 To understand part of the conflict, a map of Ukraine must be consulted. The eastern and southern part speaks Russian, while the eastern/northern end speaks Ukraine. Language ties each region to either Russia or to the Europe. When the present government tossed the offer to join the EU the eastern end erupted into violent protest. As of yesterday, the president announced that the laws against protest would be revoked.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (KBR4k)

200 Mike and Sean -

I'm in, just as long as I can be the liaison officer to that particular group of ladies.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (Vvg+J)

201 They don't have a chance with Obama in the White House.

Posted by: JohnJ at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (TF/YA)

202 What could be more upbeat than the Ukraine?  doin' the snoopy dance here, wait, what?   no, I am still so pissed off I can't see straight, although there may be other factors in play vis a vis the can't see straight thing. 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:15 PM (8lmkt)

203 "To understand part of the conflict, a map of Ukraine must be consulted." Where's CAC?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 31, 2014 05:16 PM (oFCZn)

204 I'm in, just as long as I can be the liaison officer to that particular group of ladies. Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 09:15 PM (Vvg+J) Not so fast, soldier. Present! ShortÂ…..ARMS!

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:16 PM (yz6yg)

205 It's like you want to assign collective guilt.    "Oh the Poles and the Ukrainians helped the Nazis kill Jews."  Therefore what? 

Why should I care about the Syrians?  They were never friends of mine.

The answer is simple.  Normal people just want to live in peace and they don't engage in race hatred.  Demagogues want you to hate the other. 


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:16 PM (V70Uh)

206 they say it has no eggs in it

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:16 PM (FDyew)

207 Oh geez Serves me right for writing before reading. Gone for coffee, tea.. something arggh.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at January 31, 2014 05:16 PM (KBR4k)

208 What could be more upbeat than the Ukraine? doin' the snoopy dance here, wait, what? no, I am still so pissed off I can't see straight, although there may be other factors in play vis a vis the can't see straight thing. **** Who must I kill? Tell me.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:17 PM (DmNpO)

209 Where's CAC? *** giggle

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:18 PM (DmNpO)

210 Mr Hammer the Polish Ukrainian Pole Dancers Official Organization would like to have a word with you.

Posted by: PUPDOO at January 31, 2014 05:18 PM (JdEZJ)

211 Corrie Ten Boom is the correct answer. 

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:18 PM (V70Uh)

212 Yabotinsky, the founder of the Likud movement, grew up in Odessa, and wrote a memoir of that era, which happened to coincide with a pogrom or two,

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at January 31, 2014 05:18 PM (Jsiw/)

213 NDH -

That's what it looked like to me too. I hope the NSA isn't taking notes.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:18 PM (Vvg+J)

214 Oh, Niedermeyer, I should not have said that.  Just kind of a seething ball of hate regarding the muthafuckin' asshole I work for, who is having a hard time paying me lately.  And is rude and surly and hateful on top of it.  Could be worse.  Pinning my hopes on the Powerball . . . 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:19 PM (8lmkt)

215 I think the key to safe edible dough is powdered eggs? That's the only ingredient that would need cooking.

Posted by: garrett at January 31, 2014 05:19 PM (dYSNe)

216 I don't care if there were 5'6" balding Irish-American soldiers in Iraq. Ukraine is gonna have ta make the choice it's always had to make: Russia or Germany (EU = 4th Reich) USA ain't an option on the table. And I don't give a damn which boots they wanna lick.

Posted by: Oschisms at January 31, 2014 05:20 PM (y9dfJ)

217 troops from much of the former Soviet bloc, from Poland to the Caucasus, did aid us in Iraq

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at January 31, 2014 05:21 PM (Jsiw/)

218 Sean -

Ahem, step aside. I can speak a few words of the language. Those ladies will be very impressed when I tell them "I want babka." Course, I think babka is a Polish thing... but whatever. Poland's real close, right? They'll get it.

Posted by: WolfinNC at January 31, 2014 05:21 PM (Vvg+J)

219 Bannion - Lincoln Brigade? Nah..., I was thinking home front (alarms sound at NSA). Anyhow, on that topic, kinda, this fellow lived down the street from us. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiffin_Rockwell Smart Military Blog..., and yet, vulgar.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:21 PM (aDwsi)

220 But why was Betsy Ten Boom greater than Dietrich Bonhoeffer?



Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:21 PM (V70Uh)

221 I think powdered eggs would be detrimental to the taste of edible cookie dough. They said you can make cookies with it but theyd be lousy because No Eggs and No Baking Soda.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:21 PM (FDyew)

222 Bleu bleu le bleu.

Posted by: Joey at January 31, 2014 05:22 PM (aDwsi)

223 >>> They said you can make cookies with it but theyd be lousy because No Eggs and No Baking Soda. Well, then it isn't cookie dough at all is it?

Posted by: garrett at January 31, 2014 05:23 PM (dYSNe)

224 I think the key to safe edible dough is powdered eggs?

That's the only ingredient that would need cooking.>>

Or irradiated eggs.

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:23 PM (TI3xG)

225 I think the key to safe edible dough is powdered eggs?

That's the only ingredient that would need cooking.

Posted by: garrett at January 31, 2014 09:19 PM (dYSNe)


Oh, please, when I was a little skinny ass kid, picky eater, my mom made me a million of those, fuck, whatya call 'em, shit, I'm overcompensating for the ragey thing.  And, hey, we all know how well I turned out, right?  Plus, ate a shit ton of toll house cookie batter.  But, maybe those eggs were better, now they're probably illegal immigrant eggs and have nasty illnesses, no, I would not do that now.  WTF was that called, that thing she used to make me with the eggs?  Srsly, I need help.  Who's got weed?

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:23 PM (8lmkt)

226 'evening conspirators.

did I spell that right?

first time it read "constipators".

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:23 PM (4Mv1T)

227 ((peaches))

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 27 days until spring training at January 31, 2014 05:24 PM (u8GsB)

228 There's a Ukrainian woman who lives down the road from me. She claims that the priest in that picture, the one standing before the riot police, is not Orthodox but Uniate. That's the Ukrainian church that is under the Catholic Church, the one most of the westerners belong to. I asked her how she could be so sure since the Uniate Church uses an Eastern-style rite and vestments. How could you tell from the outfit? She scoffed at me and said she knew it was a Uniate priest because no Orthodox priest would ever defy the government---- any government, but especially not a Ruski-loving one. Heh. She's a damned flaky old woman so I don't bank on what she says, but it's always interesting.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 05:24 PM (dfYL9)

229 TR!!!!  shmooshes for you, big guy! 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:24 PM (8lmkt)

230 Technically no, garrett. But youre missing the point of the product.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:24 PM (FDyew)

231 PG!!!!  {{{{{{{}}}}}}} 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:24 PM (8lmkt)

232 Oh, Niedermeyer, I should not have said that. Just kind of a seething ball of hate regarding the muthafuckin' asshole I work for, who is having a hard time paying me lately. And is rude and surly and hateful on top of it. Could be worse. Pinning my hopes on the Powerball *** A bad boss can make you want to drink. Add economic uncertainty to that and you just might want to curl up in bed for a week or two. I hope the situation improves for you soon.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:25 PM (DmNpO)

233 WTF was that called, that thing she used to make me with the eggs? Srsly, I need help. Who's got weed? Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 09:23 PM (8lmkt) -- soft-boiled eggs?

Posted by: votermom at January 31, 2014 05:25 PM (GSIDW)

234 The problem I have, Jimbo, isn't the opinions. It's the facts. You started out with some comments on facts. You got called on those facts. You (#127) asked Moo Moo for his sources. That's when I came in and provided those sources. You then (#140) denied those sources. Even insinuated (#181) that Moo Moo and I *grits teeth* were using Wikipedia and Islamic Jihad. (Pretty interesting in my case. The guy who says the Koran is a Zubayrid / Umayyad forgery.) And now in #187 you say the whole discussion is "bullshit". Which it wasn't. It was entirely a debate about facts. Facts from Jewish and academic sources which you had been, and I can't think of another word for it, denying. I'm sorry, but this pisses me off, more than what trolling Moo Moo has been doing pisses me off. You can't question someone's facts, get corrected, and then claim you didn't care about the facts all along. Especially considering the topic. I'll just assume you've had too many and call it a thread. I suppose I just got trolled. But not by Moo Moo.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 31, 2014 05:25 PM (rAeZm)

235 Or irradiated eggs. Posted by: The Hickster ------------------------ Ukrainean, or Japanese?

Posted by: Joey at January 31, 2014 05:25 PM (aDwsi)

236 {{{{{Peaches!}}}}


I see you had a lousy day, week, or something.

Put. Down. the Gun.  Step, away, slowly.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:26 PM (4Mv1T)

237 Eating alone in a restaurant, drinking sneer and trying not to shed tears re: Joffen. Such a waste, I want to damn him for his stupidity and weep with pity for him.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 05:26 PM (Svkx0)

238 After garrett's awesome and richly rewarded comment on the skydiver thread, I think we need to give him a pass for the rest of the night.  Because, g-man (may I call you that?), that was epic!

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:26 PM (8lmkt)

239 Beer, BEER. Damn autocorrect.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 05:27 PM (Svkx0)

240 I want to damn him for his stupidity and weep with pity for him. Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 09:26 PM (Svkx0) same

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 27 days until spring training at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (u8GsB)

241 Eating alone in a restaurant, drinking sneer and trying not to shed tears re: Joffen. Such a waste, I want to damn him for his stupidity and weep with pity for him.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 09:26 PM (Svkx0)


Joffen?  cripes, what did he do?  I've always liked him.  Sadly (or not), I was out hoisting a few with the gang and missed it.  Story of my fuckin' life, eh?

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (8lmkt)

242 Pinning my hopes on the Powerball . . .

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 09:19 PM (8lmkt)




And then we can say we knew you before you went and got all rich and classy and shit...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (yh0zB)

243 Peaches, maybe you could make a little voodoo doll of the evil boss & stick pins in it tear it limb from limb. That always helps.

Posted by: votermom at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (GSIDW)

244 Thanks Peaches. So it's just some shit that tastes like raw cookie dough, Soothie?

Posted by: garrett at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (dYSNe)

245 Eating alone in a restaurant, drinking sneer and trying not to shed tears re: Joffen. Such a waste, I want to damn him for his stupidity and weep with pity for him. *** the bad thing about having a smart phone is that you can let fly with a stream of obscenities before you ever rise from bed. Today was one of those days, followed by tears for a man I barely knew, but know was loved and will be missed.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:28 PM (DmNpO)

246 Or irradiated eggs.


Ukrainean, or Japanese? Posted by: Joey >>


Rhode Island Reds

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:29 PM (TI3xG)

247 Eating alone in a restaurant, drinking sneer and trying not to shed tears re: Joffen. Such a waste, I want to damn him for his stupidity and weep with pity for him. The only thing you can do is try to find a way to put it to use. Like, volunteer at a hotlineÂ….learn more about depressionÂ….I dunno. I have no real answers either.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:29 PM (yz6yg)

248 And then we can say we knew you before you went and got all rich and classy and shit...

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 09:28 PM (yh0zB)


Well, you can says you knew me before I was all rich and shit, but this is about as classy as I'm ever gonna get, GGE! 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:29 PM (8lmkt)

249 Exactly. A jar of "stuff" that tastes and looks like cookie dough. The Sharks bought it.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:30 PM (FDyew)

250 Damn Peaches sounds like you are already into the weeds. Here have some chocolate chip cookie dough: Scrussh, scrunch, push push push,blueet, pop. Fresh from your usb port!

Posted by: PUPDOO at January 31, 2014 05:30 PM (JdEZJ)

251 I like the aviator Kiffin Rockwell.  Did not know about him

Posted by: NCwoof at January 31, 2014 05:30 PM (aUQgu)

252 It's not Ukraine. It's Mykraine.

Posted by: Vlad Putin at January 31, 2014 05:30 PM (POVPH)

253 Today was one of those days, followed by tears for a man I barely knew, but know was loved and will be missed.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 09:28 PM (DmNpO)


Holy shit, he got banninated?  Damn.  So, how's Ace doing?  I prefer if you would answer en francais . . .

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:30 PM (8lmkt)

254 Imagine the worst, Peaches.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:31 PM (FDyew)

255 162 I posted this the other day. Pics of some of the protesters, worth a look: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 08:59 PM (aDwsi) That's a hell of a carbon footprint they got there.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 05:31 PM (sdi6R)

256 Ukrainean, or Japanese?>>

Wow I'm slow Chernobyl-Fukushima

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:31 PM (TI3xG)

257 Joffen? cripes, what did he do? I've always liked him. Sadly (or not), I was out hoisting a few with the gang and missed it. Story of my fuckin' life, eh?

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 09:28 PM (8lmkt)



Joffen...yeah.



Joffen committed suicide this morning, he sent a note to Cooth and went off the air.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 05:31 PM (yh0zB)

258 Why are the "good guys" the ones who want to join the socialist, anti-gun, anti-free speech, anti-death penalty, pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, pro-Islam EU?

Posted by: Daily Reminder Guy at January 31, 2014 05:31 PM (6j8ke)

259 The Sharks bought it.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 09:30 PM (FDyew)


Oh, thanks a fuckin' pantload for ruining the rest of what is left of my left-coast evening, mr blabbermouth!

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:32 PM (8lmkt)

260 Peaches, Joffen committed suicide last night. It doesn't get sadder than that, does it?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 05:32 PM (dfYL9)

261 Looking at those pictures, I can figure out why our press won't         mention Ukraine.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 31, 2014 05:33 PM (/i3Yt)

262 NCwoof - We endeavor to offer interesting tidbits.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:34 PM (aDwsi)

263 I want to say this loud and clear. If there any hot Ukrainian babes in need of shelter and comfort, my door is open.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2014 05:34 PM (AO9UG)

264 Looking at those pictures, I can figure out why our press won't mention Ukraine. Posted by: Vashta -------------- They are afraid that the natives might get ideas.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:34 PM (aDwsi)

265 Sorry Peaches. I know that just adds the f'n cherry on top of the fuckyou sundae today.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 05:34 PM (yh0zB)

266 162 I posted this the other day. Pics of some of the protesters, worth a look:
http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 08:59 PM (aDwsi)

That's a hell of a carbon footprint they got there. Posted by: rickl
------------------------------

With slingshots no less.
I've got the wrong gear in my gun safe.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (4Mv1T)

267 267 Looking at those pictures, I can figure out why our press won't mention Ukraine. Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 31, 2014 09:33 PM (/i3Yt) --------------------------- Hmmmm. Yep.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (dfYL9)

268 boulder toilet hobo,

I don't know the truth.  

Please accept my apology for being emotional and not entirely rational.  I see a lot of blame being put out here for Poles and Ukranians.

Ever read David P. Goldman's works?  The French wanted to replace the Jews as the "Chosen People." 

I am not buying the "reputable resources."  It turns out, that everything, everything is political.




Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (V70Uh)

269 Peaches, Joffen committed suicide last night.

It doesn't get sadder than that, does it?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 09:32 PM (dfYL9)


Ah, fuck.  OMG.  Crying real tears here.  Our sunshine patriot?  No, it really does not get much sadder than that.  He will be in my prayers, as will his family.  This is awful.  Thanks for catching me up, MDeV. 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (8lmkt)

270 Talking about letting the Ukrainians split from the Russian residents of Ukraine is like ... Not to minimize things but it's like how Philly idiot eagles fans talk about trades. Both parties would have to agree to it, and there is no fucking way Russia is letting those poor bastards go, not without a war. Analogue - Texas seceding. Whatever power the fedgov has will be used to prevent that from happening peacefully.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (qQeaK)

271 266 No shit? Damn.

Posted by: freaked at January 31, 2014 05:35 PM (JdEZJ)

272 If any hot Ukrainian babes who happen to be hanging out with hot Japanese babes together need shelter and comfort, my door is so fucking open.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2014 05:36 PM (AO9UG)

273 @ 33 You can bet that when Stalin starved the Ukraine, it wasn't the eastern part. -------------- Not necessarily. The Soviets moved a lot of Russians into the different provinces to help keep them from getting any funny ideas about independence. It's quite possible that Stalin starved the eastern half, and then large numbers of Russians moved there afterwards. Or it's possible that the easterners are immigrants who moved in after the Nazis killed lots of people (keep in mind that the Nazis intended to repeat Stalin's stunt with the Kulaks).

Posted by: junior at January 31, 2014 05:36 PM (l9mhS)

274 264 Why are the "good guys" the ones who want to join the socialist, anti-gun, anti-free speech, anti-death penalty, pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, pro-Islam EU? Posted by: Daily Reminder Guy at January 31, 2014 09:31 PM (6j8ke) Well, it's either that or Russia. Yeah. I got nuthin'. I'm just glad I'm not living in Ukraine.

Posted by: rickl at January 31, 2014 05:36 PM (sdi6R)

275 Terrible news about joffen. Jeez

Posted by: BlackOrchid at January 31, 2014 05:36 PM (qQeaK)

276 Not to minimize things but it's like how Philly idiot eagles fans talk about trades. Fixed for accuracy.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (yz6yg)

277 Wow I'm slow Chernobyl-Fukushima Posted by: The Hickster ------------------- Probably from eating eggs

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (aDwsi)

278 If there any hot Ukrainian babes in need of shelter and comfort, my door is open.>>

Kinda picky that only hot Ukrainian babes are welcome.  My door is open to all hot babes in need of shelter and comfort

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (TI3xG)

279 I want to say this loud and clear.
If there any hot Ukrainian babes in need of shelter and comfort, my door is open.
Posted by: eman
--------------------------

We had a Ukrainian IT guy fresh off the boat about 10 years ago. Really smart guy. But if the chicks are anything like the guys...
I have two words.

HY-GIENE.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (4Mv1T)

280 May the Good Lord be merciful to the troubled soul of Joffen, Sunshine Patriot.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (V70Uh)

281

now I can't stop.  I wish this wasn't true. 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (8lmkt)

282 If any hot Ukrainian babes who happen to be hanging out with hot Japanese babes together need shelter and comfort, my door is so fucking open. I told you not to cross the streams.

Posted by: Egon Spengler[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:37 PM (yz6yg)

283 Poor Joffen. I hope all who loved him find a way to heal. Mat he rest now in peace.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2014 05:39 PM (AO9UG)

284 Ah, fuck. OMG. Crying real tears here. Our sunshine patriot? No, it really does not get much sadder than that. He will be in my prayers, as will his family. This is awful. Thanks for catching me up, MDeV *** Peaches, it was bizarre. He appeared cheerfully in the ONT last night then, suddenly, all hell broke lose. Might heart goes out to Cthulu.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:39 PM (DmNpO)

285 My heart. dangit

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 31, 2014 05:39 PM (DmNpO)

286 116 A (Ukrainian) lurker shouts out: it's not "The Ukraine." We don't call it "The Ukraine" in conversations.

"Ukraine."

Posted by: LawVic at January 31, 2014 08:42 PM (7DLAW)

I was informed today, by an article I read, that the preferred term for the nation changed from The Ukraine to simply Ukraine back in 1991, iirc. It's probably not too surprising, but at least curious, that most people (that I have heard) have not changed their habits in naming a rarely mentioned nation in over 20 years.

Posted by: red sweater at January 31, 2014 05:40 PM (oATMN)

287 now I can't stop. I wish this wasn't true. Hugs for you, Peaches.

Posted by: garrett at January 31, 2014 05:40 PM (dYSNe)

288 So I got a kick in the nuts today from the IRS. My own fault though. I didn't change my status from married to single for my retirement pay so everything I overpaid from my regular check is going to make up for what I underpaid on my retirement pay.


But hey, another 6K or so a year and I'll be one of the evil hated rich!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 31, 2014 05:40 PM (yh0zB)

289 284 If there any hot Ukrainian babes in need of shelter and comfort, my door is open.>> Kinda picky that only hot Ukrainian babes are welcome. My door is open to all hot babes in need of shelter and comfort Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 09:37 PM (TI3xG) Just trying to stay on topic.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2014 05:40 PM (AO9UG)

290 hot Ukrainian babes in need of shelter and comfort>>

Irradiated eggs?

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:41 PM (TI3xG)

291 Wait. Joffen is gone?

I mean gone, gone??

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:42 PM (4Mv1T)

292 With slingshots no less. I've got the wrong gear in my gun safe. Posted by: Tobacco Road --------------------- What! Southern guy without a Wrist Rocket and supply of .36 cal. balls? Get one. They are like $10. Handy now and then.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:42 PM (aDwsi)

293 I'm firmly on the side of the ethnic Ukranians. Have I ever mentioned that I'm Ukranian, and Mrs. Crank comes from Ukranian Jews? Russia is fascinating. Russian rulers? F*ck those guys. F*ck them with Lenin's pointy beard.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 05:42 PM (Svkx0)

294 TR - gone

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:42 PM (aDwsi)

295 I just kinda figure, without much thinking about it, that we are all here to get ourselves and one another through these awful times.  RIP, Joffen, and God speed.  I'm so very very sorry that you had to do that.

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:43 PM (8lmkt)

296 I really didn't get thenwhole Ukraine thing and why it might be important. Learned a lot all. Thanks.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at January 31, 2014 05:43 PM (ojnk6)

297 287 --- We often talk about each other as not being a part of "real life," but it's not true. We're real. Joffen was a real guy we knew. Painful.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 05:43 PM (dfYL9)

298 Tr - You can read the end of last night's ONT to get some details, but I do not recommend it.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 05:44 PM (aDwsi)

299 TR - gone Posted by: Mike Hammer
---------------------------

I remember the first time he posted. Really on the ragged edge. This is so bad.

Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:44 PM (4Mv1T)

300 >>>followed by tears for a man I barely knew, but know was loved and will be missed. Said better than I could have done. He was the one that got me de-lurked. His daughter is the same age as mine.

Posted by: DC in Towson at January 31, 2014 05:44 PM (eQJwb)

301 292 116 A (Ukrainian) lurker shouts out: it's not "The Ukraine." We don't call it "The Ukraine" in conversations. "Ukraine." Posted by: LawVic at January 31, 2014 08:42 PM (7DLAW) I was informed today, by an article I read, that the preferred term for the nation changed from The Ukraine to simply Ukraine back in 1991, iirc. It's probably not too surprising, but at least curious, that most people (that I have heard) have not changed their habits in naming a rarely mentioned nation in over 20 years. Posted by: red sweater at January 31, 2014 09:40 PM (oATMN) Calling it The Ukraine is basically using a Soviet insult. If I recall correctly it means "The South" and it was a Soviet way of not calling Ukraine a legitimate country or Republic.

Posted by: eman at January 31, 2014 05:44 PM (AO9UG)

302 296 cut and paste fail fix

Just trying to stay on topic. Posted by: eman >>

Irradiated eggs?

Posted by: The Hickster at January 31, 2014 05:45 PM (TI3xG)

303 RIP, Joffen

Posted by: davidt at January 31, 2014 05:45 PM (dWJaR)

304 ah, jeez, cthulhu, you are also in my prayers . . . i'm so sorry, my friend. 

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:45 PM (8lmkt)

305 boulder toilet hobo,

I don't know the truth.

Please accept my apology for being emotional and not entirely rational. I see a lot of blame being put out here for Poles and Ukranians.

Ever read David P. Goldman's works? The French wanted to replace the Jews as the "Chosen People."

I am not buying the "reputable resources." It turns out, that everything, everything is political.




Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 09:35 PM (V70Uh)



Have either of you read "Bloodlands"?  I'm sure Moo Moo hasn't.  Until you know just what happened in that part of the world from the thirties theough WW2 between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, making blanket statements about who did what and why is just fucking ignorant.  Those people had the fucking shit beat and starved out of them by both sides during that period.  Were some of them Jew haters?  Fucking A right they were but not every damn one of them.  And they sure as fuck didn't ask for the death camps to be built in their own back yard where they were being worked to death also.  It isn't an easy story to make sense of and to make blanket statements half a century after, as if it has anything to do with the situation today, is just wrong.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 05:46 PM (OIEN+)

306 304 Agreed Mike. Read the end first thing this morning. Not a way one wanted to wake up, and I don't think I ever even interacted with the guy. May the Good Lord find a home for him. I wouldn't go back there even for a fair amount of money.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at January 31, 2014 05:47 PM (ojnk6)

307 Actually, the really bad part is over. I wish we could go back 24 hours to the really bad part before he ended it all. There was still time, then.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:47 PM (FDyew)

308 299---Conservative Crank --- Do you still have relatives in Ukraine? If so, have you heard anything from them?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 31, 2014 05:47 PM (dfYL9)

309 >>>ah, jeez, cthulhu, you are also in my prayers . . . i'm so sorry, my friend. Mine as well. Please come out tonight. A burden is always lighter when shared.

Posted by: DC in Towson at January 31, 2014 05:47 PM (eQJwb)

310 If any of you morons or ettes ever need to talk...you can reach me through the group or twitter....suicide is not the answer

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 31, 2014 05:49 PM (u8GsB)

311 I'd like to propose to toast to our lost Moron, this being his wake here.

To Joffen.

To his family.

And to those here who tried hard to make a difference.

God bless you all.


Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 05:51 PM (4Mv1T)

312 God bless you all. ----- Amen.

Posted by: Adam at January 31, 2014 05:52 PM (Aif/5)

313 Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 09:51 PM (4Mv1T) Hear, hear.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 31, 2014 05:52 PM (yz6yg)

314

Cthulu. and shredded chi.  You did the best you possible could.  Prayers for you both too.  I remember talking to Joffen Sunshine Patriot a few months ago, not sure if I told him or just thought it, probably said it, it's a permanent solution to a temp problem.  i'v had my own probs in the past. 

 

RIP.  May God touch your soul an keep you safe. 

 

Prayers for the family.

 

Damn dust.

Posted by: Infidel at January 31, 2014 05:52 PM (6bvBO)

Posted by: Peaches at January 31, 2014 05:53 PM (8lmkt)

316 My Grandparents were German, and I work with a bunch of Polish guys. None of us ever killed any Jews.

Posted by: Chris M at January 31, 2014 05:53 PM (4lyMJ)

317 Let's take it upstairs, everyone.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 31, 2014 05:54 PM (FDyew)

318 272 162 I posted this the other day. Pics of some of the protesters, worth a look:

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 31, 2014 08:59 PM (aDwsi)
That's a hell of a carbon footprint they got there.

Posted by: rickl

Carbon, no wonder the Publishers are staying away from this.

Posted by: CO at January 31, 2014 05:54 PM (WbOdn)

319

From an conservative American POV, it's rather hard to think of the pro-EU party as "freedom-loving" since we hate and detest the Dems efforts to turn America into a EU-like state. I guess, in this case, things are really are  relative.

 

What a choice for the Ukraine though - do you want Putin to control you or do you want to be run by the Brussells Euro-weenies? Yeah, I suppose I'd go with the EU too. Location, location,location.(The Poles know all about that, since they've been gang-raped by Germany, Russia and Austria for centuries.)

Posted by: Donna V. at January 31, 2014 05:55 PM (R3gO3)

320 >>>Posted by: Tobacco Road at January 31, 2014 09:51 PM To Joffen! And to Gabe! And Cthullu! Two guys who proved we aren't really fake internet friends.

Posted by: DC in Towson at January 31, 2014 05:55 PM (eQJwb)

321 Captain Hate: I've read "Bloodlands".

Any thoughts I might have had that Hitler was better than Stalin [disclosure: my Ukraine Jewish extended family was mostly done-in by [i]Stalin - "doctor's plot" - so I was brought up with animosity toward that second guy, which is why I'm on the Right] was stripped clean away.

Another fact I found out: the French are #3 in the Vad Yeshem "righteous". A lot of French did resist the Holocaust.

#1?

Poles.

More Poles protected Jews than any other nation.

The vast number of Jews killed in Poland (and we can't avoid that) was in large part because many Jews lived in shtetls - villages of Jews-only, or at least Jews-and-people-who-liked-Jews-only. Germans could just go there and liquidate the whole town. Wouldn't even need a collaborator for that.

Jimbo: sorry for my Aspergery outburst earlier.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 31, 2014 05:57 PM (30eLQ)

322 Thanks Captain Hate.  I'm so tired.  Tired of playing the game.  Someone's always coming and going and going and coming ... always too soon.

But seriously.  Thanks.

"Bloodlines"

I am world-weary.  Not like Joffen. 

When I read "The Guns of August" I was amazed that it was all about retribution for the Franco-Prussian War.  $%^&*()


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 05:58 PM (V70Uh)

323 I don't know, I'm sure Mrs. Crank's would have been wiped out by Stalin or Nazis. My great grandparents came over around 1900 or so, after they were ejected from Russia for spying on the Tsar.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 31, 2014 06:00 PM (Svkx0)

324 OMG about Joffen. I only knew him though his comments here, but oh dear lord, that's awful.

Posted by: Donna V. at January 31, 2014 06:00 PM (R3gO3)

325 Thanks for that response, boulder terlit (love it) hobo.  A lot.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 06:00 PM (OIEN+)

326 Which side are the Muslims on?

Posted by: TFG at January 31, 2014 06:01 PM (gtiZk)

327 Thanks, phoenixgirl. I might take you up on that one of these days.

Posted by: Donna V. at January 31, 2014 06:02 PM (R3gO3)

328 bth,  We're good. 


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 06:02 PM (V70Uh)

329 "Bloodlines"

Bloodlands

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 06:02 PM (OIEN+)

330 Bloodlands.  got it.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 06:04 PM (V70Uh)

331 Thanks for your response too, Grampa Jimbo.

Posted by: Captain Hate at January 31, 2014 06:04 PM (OIEN+)

332 new thread up.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 31, 2014 06:05 PM (V70Uh)

333 http://www.nba.com/media/hawks/ukraine_062806.jpg

Posted by: Dan at January 31, 2014 07:12 PM (2D5tp)

334 There's a joke about Ukrainians that goes that wherever you have two Ukrainians together, you've got at least three political parties. Viktor Yushchenko was the hero of the Orange Revolution (and survived being poisoned) and became President. Yuliya Tymoshenko (dragon lady with her hair in a crown braid all the time) and Yanukovich were the top rivals for said post. Tymoshenko was much closer to Yushchenko politically, and many of the expats I know wouldn't have minded Tymoshenko having become President, but from what I remember, Yushchenko wasn't really good at brokering negotiations with Tymoshenko, and so you ended up with Yanukovich being president, whose corruption and influence were part of the reason the Orange Revolution broke out in 2005 in the first place. Tymoshenko was imprisoned for corruption, and Yushchenko isn't on the political scene anymore. Tymoshenko herself is from Eastern Ukraine and didn't learn Ukrainian until she was an adult and wanted to advance her national career. However, there is argument over what the "real" Ukrainian language is in the first place. The expats in the US and Canada who speak Ukrainian speak more of an un-Russified Ukrainian, and one person I know, having learned Ukrainian from his parents who fled the country after WWII, came back to Ukraine and gave a speech to some "important" people in Kiev (or Kyiv, kind of pronounced cay-eev in Ukrainian). He was wondering why nobody seemed to be responding to his speech, when somebody gave him a nudge and told him to please stop speaking in Polish! However, if you're trying to find a Ukrainian textbook for English speakers, the only one I could find that was readily available in the US (ca. 2007) was one that taught this type of Ukrainian. Ukraine itself has some really weird things to it too - in far western Ukraine, in L'viv, that whole region did not suffer from the Holodymyr because at the time that that went on, it was part of Poland, and before that, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. If you go there, the city is beautiful, but before it became part of the USSR (after WWII), it was a very diverse city, made up of a majority of Poles, followed by Ukrainians, then Jews and Armenians. Seeing the buildings, one gets a sense of this history, but it's really weird, too, because now it's primarily Ukrainians, probably followed by Russians, and there really is no Jewish or Armenian communities left to speak of. Furthermore, in Southern Ukraine, by the Crimea (Odessa, etc.), this place was never really "Ukrainian", but rather primarily Jewish, and became a resort area for the well to do Russians. The Jews are basically gone, but in recent years, Russia has been accused of issuing passports for people living there, which was what happened in Georgia prior to the Russian invasion there, so many Ukrainians are very worried that Russia is planning to walk into Crimea and take over. As for religion, it's not even as simple as Catholic vs. Orthodox - most of the Catholics in Ukraine are Ukrainian Catholic, which is an autonomous church under the umbrella of Rome. While the vast majority of Catholics are "Roman Catholic" (Western Rite), there still are the Ukrainian Catholics, the Maronite Catholics, the Armenian Catholics, etc. who are Eastern Rite. Walking into a Ukrainian Catholic Church, most people wouldn't be able to distinguish it from an Orthodox Church, as the buildings and the Liturgies (masses) are almost identical. However, among the Orthodox, there are those who are part of the Moscow Patriarchate (MP), the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church (UAOP), and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kievan Patriarchiate (which is not recognized as canonical by most other Orthodox). (And let's not forget that there are plenty of Communists/atheists left over from Soviet times!) I know people from eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine, and if you get them in a room together, you'd likely see fireworks, even on an individual level. For someone like me, it's probably easier to see some of the points of both sides, but the bigger problem is that the country is rife to be torn apart either internally or by Russian interference if things continue on this way. On the one hand, it's encouraging to see "the good guys" out there in the streets. On the other, there's a lot of cynicism as to if this didn't fundamentally change things in 2005, is anything going to change now.

Posted by: Katja at January 31, 2014 08:59 PM (LmCTZ)

335 307 292 116 A (Ukrainian) lurker shouts out: it's not "The Ukraine." We don't call it "The Ukraine" in conversations. "Ukraine." Actually, I think the habit comes from German. In a few instances, there's an article thrown in before the name of a country, so, for example, you get "Die Schweiz" (Switzerland/the switzerland) and "der Irak" (Iraq / the Iraq). Ukraine is one of these. I think it comes from the notion that most countries take on the neuter case, and for the exceptions the article is thrown in to denote that (die Schweiz and die Ukraine are feminine, and der Irak is masculine). And... since English takes on a lot of characteristics of German, I think we just kind of picked it up and had it as an English anomaly long before the Soviets were around. However, it made me snicker every time I saw a German protesting the war in Iraq with signs that read "USA - get out of the Irak".

Posted by: Katja at January 31, 2014 09:08 PM (LmCTZ)

336 Just wanted to chime in on behalf of not using "The" with Ukraine. Ukrainians prefer to leave out the article. "The Ukraine" makes it sound too much like a region (which it historically was for a long time, under Russian domination), rather than an independent nation, which it is now.

Posted by: DavidW at February 01, 2014 03:41 AM (SmiwC)

337 340 katja

Interesting summary.  Thank you.  Have been following as closely as I can with only two semesters of Russian.  At least I can piece together bits here and there.

Posted by: NCwoof at February 01, 2014 05:56 AM (aUQgu)

338 Don't eat the cookies!

Posted by: burt at February 02, 2014 07:13 AM (1+kJ5)

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