January 06, 2014

More than Four Years Since The Great Recession Officially (Technically) Ended, The Economy's Still Terrible
— Ace

The economy supposedly posted growth of 4.1% last quarter. If that's true, why is the economy still so sickly?


While there's little sense that the U.S. economy is headed for another downturn, most forecasters expect further improvement in 2014 will be gradual. Unless and until the job market improves substantially, and higher wages drive a convincing pickup in consumer spending and demand, the lingering damage to confidence will likely keep the weakest economic recovery in memory plodding along at a frustratingly slow pace.

...

"The economy is continuing to make progress, but it also has much farther to travel before conditions can be judged normal," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told reporters in his final news conference as head of the 100-year-old institution.

...

That sluggish job growth goes a long way to explaining why—for millions of Americans—the Great Recession never ended. While the "official" unemployment rate has fallen steadily since the summer of 2009, the improvement in the data has come largely from the ongoing wave of jobless people who have given up looking for work.

Many of them—like Mary Villalba, 65, of Centennial, Colo.—fear they may never find a job as good as the one they lost to the recession.

Mother Jones (!) punctures the idea that the economy is Just Fine with charts.

motherjonesunemployment.png

Former Obama economic advisor Larry Summers notes that this "recovery" does not resemble prior ones.

Last month I argued that the U.S. and global economies may be in a period of secular stagnation in which sluggish growth and output, and employment levels well below potential, might coincide for some time to come with problematically low real interest rates. Since the start of this century, annual growth in U.S. gross domestic product has averaged less than 1.8 percent. The economy is now operating nearly 10 percent, or more than $1.6 trillion, below what the Congressional Budget Office judged to be its potential path as recently as 2007. And all this is in the face of negative real interest rates for more than five years and extraordinarily easy monetary policies.

Even some forecasters who have had the wisdom to remain pessimistic about growth prospects the past few years are coming around to more optimistic views of 2014, at least in the United States. This is encouraging but should be qualified with the recognition that even on optimistic forecasts, output and employment stand to remain well below previous trends for many years. More troubling, even with the high degree of slack in the economy and with wage and price inflation slowing, there are signs of eroding credit standards and inflated asset values. If the United States were to enjoy several years of healthy growth under anything like current credit conditions, there is every reason to expect a return to the kind of problems of bubbles and excess lending seen in 2005 to 2007 long before output and employment returned to normal trend growth or inflation picked up again.

He outlines three responses: Supply side economic policy, Fed easy-money monetary policy, and a progressive demand-side policy. He winds up championing the third. Obama advisor arguing for more Obamanomics, go figure.

But here's what he says about the second strategy, the Fed's helicoptering money into the economy:

...

The second strategy, which has dominated U.S. policy in recent years, is lowering relevant interest rates and capital costs as much as possible and relying on regulatory policies to ensure financial stability. No doubt the economy is far healthier now than it would have been in the absence of these measures. But a growth strategy that relies on interest rates significantly below growth rates for long periods virtually ensures the emergence of substantial financial bubbles and dangerous buildups in leverage. The idea that regulation can allow the growth benefits of easy credit to come without cost is a chimera.

Artificially juicing the economy with money we don't have results in artificially raising prices for things. Thus creating a bubble. And we may be back to creating a second housing bubble. I guess we're creating a second housing bubble because the first one was so awesome.

IN November, housing starts were up 23 percent, and there was cheering all around. But the crowd would quiet down if it realized that another housing bubble had begun to grow.

The writer notes that a bubble can be detected when the rate of growth of prices for buying property greatly exceed the rate of growth of rents that can be charged for that property. After all, the actual income one hopes to generate from property is based on its rental value; if the property's value is going up at double the rate of rents, then that increase in price is due to speculation about the property's future value. And that's the sign of a bubble.

Today, after the financial crisis, the recession and the slow recovery, the bubble is beginning to grow again. Between 2011 and the third quarter of 2013, housing prices grew by 5.83 percent, again exceeding the increase in rental costs, which was 2 percent.
...


Both this bubble and the last one were caused by the governmentÂ’s housing policies, which made it possible for many people to purchase homes with very little or no money down.

...

Today, the same forces are operating. The Federal Housing Administration is requiring down payments of just 3.5 percent. Fannie and Freddie are requiring a mere 5 percent. According to the American Enterprise Institute’s National Mortgage Risk Index data set for Oct. 2013, about half of those getting mortgages to buy homes — not to refinance — put 5 percent or less down. When anyone suggests that down payments should be raised to the once traditional 10 or 20 percent, the outcry in Congress and from brokers and homebuilders is deafening.

So here we go again.

By the way: Lawrence Summers referred to "secular stagnation" in the economy. Here's a quick definition from Wikipedia.

During the Great Depression, private capital investment fell because of excess capacity and lack of good investment opportunities. Secular stagnation theory blamed inadequate capital investment for hindering full deployment of labor and other economic resources.

I'm not an economist, but it sure sounds if Larry Summers is right, he should be arguing for methods of increasing capital investment. And that means incentivizing it, or, rather, not disincentivizing it as much as we do presently.

And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing, not more of the same.

Thanks to @rdbrewer4 for most of the links in this post.

Posted by: Ace at 11:25 AM | Comments (301)
Post contains 1123 words, total size 8 kb.

1 Thank God Obama is term limited. 

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 11:27 AM (D+lxs)

2 These economists seem to have the same rate of accuracy as the average weatherman.

Posted by: kathysaysso at January 06, 2014 11:28 AM (6H6o8)

3 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 11:28 AM (PYAXX)

4 Because Roosevelt only ended the depression thanks to WWII.  And if we get WWIII, it's gonna have nuclear weapons. 

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 11:29 AM (D+lxs)

5 Could massive domestic oil production be helping the GDP numbers?

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 11:29 AM (MMC8r)

6 Affirmative Action has consequences.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 11:29 AM (0nzVw)

7 I can name three things off the top of my head that have harmed the economy such that what would have been a normal recovery has not been. 1- Dodd-Frank. 2- "Extended" Unemployment benefits. 3- Obamacare. And ObamaCare will be a "gift that keeps on giving" because it's going to make temporary/contract/part-time work systemic.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 11:30 AM (PYAXX)

8 Could massive domestic oil production be helping the GDP numbers? Yes. As is significant inflation that the US Govt claims doesn't exist.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 11:30 AM (PYAXX)

9 The US economy > The Big Bang Theory

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (DpEwG)

10 I'm sure they will direct the public's attention away from the crappy economy by focusing on their wildly successful healthcare program.

or not.

Posted by: Mole6 at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (m0le6)

11

With the Obama Foreign Policy, we may get WWIII anyway. 

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (D+lxs)

12 Don't forget about removal of welfare restrictions.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (LSJmV)

13 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 03:30 PM (PYAXX) 4. I'd also put in the culture put in by a trigger happy DOJ, where firing/laying off people is so hard, might as well not hire. 5. Minimum wage rumblings.

Posted by: AMDG at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (t7OO0)

14 I don't know about the larger cities but here in my rural area since the war on coal the economy is in the shitter.

Posted by: Fourth Horseman at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (KuZ6A)

15 Thank God Obama is term limited.

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 03:27 PM (D+lxs)



I hope.

Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (GQ8sn)

16 Businesses are stalling, jobs are falling, too! We need more regulation and paperwork for employers to do.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (QF8uk)

17 Racist!

Posted by: wooga at January 06, 2014 11:31 AM (G4vuy)

18 Rising food prices driving the economy (by making the GDP number bigger)?

Posted by: Bill Wednesday at January 06, 2014 11:32 AM (8RshS)

19 1 Thank God Obama is term limited. Our Betters are working on that little obstacle. Because if we don't change the Constitution to allow Selfie McHalo a third term, we are all rayciss.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 11:32 AM (7ObY1)

20 And we're taking any number put out by the BLS (Bureau of Lies and Scams) at face value, why, exactly?

(Anyone claiming that current UE is ~7% deserves to be ridiculed on sight)

Posted by: Jabari at January 06, 2014 11:32 AM (tO352)

21 Economic Winter has come.  And no matter how much paper this administration prints and pastes on the walls, the chill is seeping through.  The cold shivering hands of economic death are tightening their grip.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 06, 2014 11:32 AM (GeA5I)

22 Mother Jones? They need to unwrap their pie hole off the Bong.. On the other end they do represent the standard in Turd Cutter Journalism. They got that ..

Posted by: 7 Days in May at January 06, 2014 11:33 AM (j6DTo)

23 But the earth has begun to heal and the oceans have started to recede. So we have that.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 06, 2014 11:33 AM (AiYlm)

24 growth of 4.1% last quarter. If that's true, why is the economy still so sickly? Hey, at least we're getting higher prices for all that money we printed! FORWARD!

Posted by: t-bird at January 06, 2014 11:33 AM (FcR7P)

25 Thank God Obama is term limited. What, really, is a year? They say that a thousand years is but a second in a GodÂ’s eyes, and that all time is relative to the observer.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 11:34 AM (QF8uk)

26

The economy has 'grown' for 55 months according to this administration but they want to extend unemployment.

 

these seem contridictory.

 

Who is lying?

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 11:34 AM (q+zA9)

27 These economists seem to have the same rate of accuracy as the average weatherman. Weathermen are much less invested in the outcome of the policies, and it's more obvious when they're wrong.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 06, 2014 11:34 AM (WhJf8)

28 Barack H. Obama... has no grade point average. All classes incomplete.

Posted by: Dean Wormer at January 06, 2014 11:35 AM (G4vuy)

29 Read an article in IBD relaying the change in the method of calculating GDP back in September 2013 means lowering the reported quarterly growth by 2.5% or so to get the truth. I think the jobless rate is also now being reported in Celsiust o mask that reality as well.

Posted by: DanMan at January 06, 2014 11:35 AM (RusNE)

30 I'm not economist, but it seems to me that if all the government does is make it more difficult to hire, the result can only be less hiring.

Posted by: navybrat at January 06, 2014 11:35 AM (AW7Gr)

31 And it's not like the BLS has been caught fudging employment stats or anything. Completely reliable.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 06, 2014 11:36 AM (AiYlm)

32 Barky left the Mooch in HI, so at least we have that.

Posted by: Hop Sing, cook and cattle rustler, babysitter and bottle washer. at January 06, 2014 11:36 AM (m193R)

33 There are huge sums of money sitting on the side for a reason.

There have also been huge divestments in many securities for a various reasons. Those would be, but not limited to;
- Nobody believes the BLS
- Corporate earnings  and outlooks are nowhere near value
- The whole easy money Fed thing is about to come crashing down.
- Obama has no plan for the economy. Just a continuation of the same one that has destroyed jobs and productivity
- Nothing on the horizon suggest a substantive change in GDP trajectory
- None of the traditional signs are present for a recovery
- Government spending continues unabated


Posted by: Marcus at January 06, 2014 11:36 AM (GGCsk)

34 Who said it and when did he say it? >>"It may be true — as some economists argue — that any big jumps in the minimum wage discourage employers from hiring more workers,"

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 11:36 AM (g1DWB)

35 "The opposite of secular would be religious or spiritual." Larry Summers is pushing his religion.

Posted by: huggy at January 06, 2014 11:36 AM (3AXH9)

36
Thank God Obama is term limited.

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 03:27 PM (D+lxs)










Riiiiiiiiiight.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (TIIx5)

37 I just finished pimping out the Wilson Combat I want to order.  Just a little under four G's.


Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (GQ8sn)

38 They are counting inflation as growth and everyone knows that the official unemployment rate is a bunch of malarkey. It's a bunch of BS. This will end in tears.

Posted by: forest at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (stMuz)

39 I am going to slap the next sucker who misuses the word "secular'.


Posted by: West at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (1Rgee)

40 There are ATMs on every corner. Nothing is gonna change until we put a stop to them.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (4d7QP)

41 During the Great Depression, private capital investment fell because of excess capacity and lack of good investment opportunities. Secular stagnation theory blamed inadequate capital investment for hindering full deployment of labor and other economic resources. ------------------------------- Inadequate capital investment is not our problem today. Money is so cheap, it's ridiculous. Why do you think the DOW is over 16,000? It's not based on anything approaching the real value of these companies. No one wants to take their fucking medicine, but a correction is inevitable. And by "correction," I mean The Burning Times.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 06, 2014 11:37 AM (CJjw5)

42 Ah, more cognitive dissonance.

Lib Party Line: The economy has fully recovered!

Lib Party Line: We need to extended unemployment benefits ASAP!

Question: If the economy has fully recovered, why do we need to extend unemployment benefits?

Lib Party Line: Racist!

Posted by: Shibumi at January 06, 2014 11:38 AM (25HWz)

43 ObamaCare is the biggest portion of the overall Regulation Regime. Our Best & Brightest are running the economy like JFK's ran the Vietnam War.

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 11:39 AM (MMC8r)

44 >>>And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing, not more of the same.

Make, making money in business easy, and people will try it out. Make it like an interrogation by the Spanish Inquisition and you'll get a lot of folks who just say pass. I did a post on that very thing in July. In such a business hostile environment, folks don't want to invest themselves in a new business venture, they will just ride out secure gainful employment.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 06, 2014 11:39 AM (0q2P7)

45 I just finished pimping out the Wilson Combat I want to order. Just a little under four G's.


Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)

 

that is alot of Dinars.

 

I know USPSA master shooters who only have $2,000 to $2,500 in their race gun

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 11:39 AM (q+zA9)

46 but... but... but... we're moving in the right direction.  Barry hisself said so.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 11:39 AM (BZAd3)

47 I try to make secular stew but it never tastes right.

Posted by: Hop Sing, cook and cattle rustler, babysitter and bottle washer. at January 06, 2014 11:39 AM (m193R)

48

Boiling down the economic     and political analysis to one line:  

 

We have reached the point    where the weight of     government, in taxes and regulation, has become too great for the    private sector to pull the wagon anymore.

 

We will not see economic growth again until the deadweight is reduced.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 06, 2014 11:40 AM (AX3vC)

49 Thank God Obama is term limited. 

Posted by: rd at January 06, 2014 03:27 PM (D+lxs)

It's cute that you think so.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 06, 2014 11:40 AM (fwARV)

50 We will soon have 7.98% GDP growth just like China.

Posted by: huggy at January 06, 2014 11:40 AM (3AXH9)

51 We got an awesome 5-point plan to fix all of this, if anyone is interested.

1)  Kill all the landlords
2)....

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 11:40 AM (NXg/k)

52 7 I can name three things off the top of my head that have harmed the economy such that what would have been a normal recovery has not been. 1- Dodd-Frank. 2- "Extended" Unemployment benefits. 3- Obamacare. And ObamaCare will be a "gift that keeps on giving" because it's going to make temporary/contract/part-time work systemic. --- Don't forget Sarbanes-Oxley, which is credited with chasing a lot of businesses away from New York to London, though it dates back to 2002. We can blame Krugman for that one because it directly resulted from Enron and their funny business with the Anderson audits.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (/Crba)

53 that is alot of Dinars.

I know USPSA master shooters who only have $2,000 to $2,500 in their race gun

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 03:39 PM (q+zA9)



Doing my part to save the economy.


Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (GQ8sn)

54 Totally OT, but does anyone have a link I can bookmark ahead of time to watch Auburn-FSU tonight? I'd love to save a bar tab.

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (X3GkB)

55 Pivot to...

something.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (BZAd3)

56 Hmm. Sounds like some academic economists desperately trying to salvage their reputation.

Posted by: joncelli at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (RD7QR)

57 misusing the word 'secular'.
Just to be safe, I binged it, and in the top five or six returned results were four different definitions of the word. So slap me silly.

Posted by: Bill Wednesday at January 06, 2014 11:41 AM (8RshS)

58 5 Year Plans and 4 Year Terms don't mix.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 11:42 AM (4d7QP)

59 And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing, not more of the same.
___
I drove this car into the ditch at 90 MPH and dammit I'm going to drive it out of the ditch the same way.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 06, 2014 11:42 AM (P3U0f)

60

"Obama advisor arguing for more Obamanomics, go figure."

 

Hey, he's a highbrow intellectual who knows of what he speaks.

Posted by: David Gregory at January 06, 2014 11:42 AM (wAQA5)

61 "And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing"

Sounds like a statement of a Universal Truth (TM), not merely applicable to Monetary Policy.

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at January 06, 2014 11:42 AM (91XRk)

62 54 Totally OT, but does anyone have a link I can bookmark ahead of time to watch Auburn-FSU tonight?

I'd love to save a bar tab.

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 03:41 PM (X3GkB)

 

Yes.

 

 

Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 11:42 AM (LI48c)

63 Don't forget Sarbanes-Oxley, which is credited with chasing a lot of businesses away from New York to London, though it dates back to 2002. I know SOX sucks, but most businesses had already adapted to it by 2008. Yes, getting rid of it would help, but it continuing in existence is not (IMO) a reason we haven't recovered like we should have.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 11:43 AM (PYAXX)

64 I am going to slap the next sucker who misuses the word "secular'.


Posted by: West at January 06, 2014 03:37 PM (1Rgee)


------

pffffttt


Saying the Republicans form a secular firing squad is spot on.


Posted by: fixerpper at January 06, 2014 11:43 AM (nELVU)

65 2)  Take everyone's shit and give it to everyone else.

*giggle*

this shit is sooo easy.....

brb  Almost 4:20

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 11:43 AM (NXg/k)

66 Doing my part to save the economy.

Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 03:41 PM (GQ8sn)

 

 

that is one fine present

 

Now just get him shooting

USPSA,

UDPA

3 Gun

US Carbine Association

 

or something so he doesn't have a real nice safe queen

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 11:43 AM (q+zA9)

67 Sometimes I use a Secular Grip when I'm spanking it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 06, 2014 11:43 AM (CJjw5)

68 >>>And by "correction," I mean The Burning Times.

Is that your newsletter?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 06, 2014 11:44 AM (0q2P7)

69 5 Year Plans and 4 Year Terms don't mix.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 03:42 PM (4d7QP)


----


You, sir, may consider that one stolen.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 11:44 AM (nELVU)

70 "The economy supposedly posted growth of 4.1% last quarter. If that's true, why is the economy still so sickly?" Because all of that growth is going to the Banksters, Wall Street, and the corrupt Federal bureaucracy that protects and feeds them, along with the armies of accountants and lawyers needed to make the whole thing Sarbanes-Oxly and Dodd-Frank compliant. Get rid of the cronyism and free the markets. Then you'll see some of the growth in your own pocket.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at January 06, 2014 11:44 AM (pginn)

71
Well, energy and food aren't counted for the inflation rate. I'm wondering what else they've excluded. Probably a lot of shit that would surprise the hell out of the public.

Eventually, the inflation rate will be calculated exclusively on Trojan condoms, Tums and WNBA season tickets.


Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 11:44 AM (TIIx5)

72 Unfortunately, even if the Repubs win the problem is largely unsolvable. Too much labor is now redundant, and this becomes more true each day. We have not figured out how to get people participating in the economy when their labor is not needed. We still have excess productive capacity with no demand to put it to work. Pushing capital into expanding the production base will do little other than to create even greater oversupply. Until someone comes up with a workable solution to the issue I don't see much improvement coming.

Posted by: Reactionary at January 06, 2014 11:44 AM (or5/Z)

73 Who said it and when did he say it? >>"It may be true — as some economists argue — that any big jumps in the minimum wage discourage employers from hiring more workers," Not even a guess? It was Barack Hussein Obama in his 2006 book Audacity of Hope. Not that its news but Obama doesn't give a shit about facts, honesty or people. It's all about him and keeping power.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 11:45 AM (g1DWB)

74 Unless and until the job market improves substantially, and higher wages drive a convincing pickup in consumer spending and demand What makes anyone believe this is possible, long-term? hint: the employer mandate looms. Companies will discover that in the long run it is less expensive to pay the penalties and kick all of their employees into the exchanges. They can pay the penalty, and either give their employees something (raise|benefit) to help defray the cost of health insurance, and still cut payroll. Assuming they don't just trim the number of employees. There will be a lot of newly unemployed come this time next year.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 11:45 AM (1hM1d)

75

UDPA

 

er, that should be IDPA

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 11:45 AM (q+zA9)

76 What is amazing to me is the sheer level of bad shit that is coming out of this Administration.  There is so much bad shit that Obama has to be grateful whenever we talk about any of the bad shit other than obamacare that pretty much doubles the amount of other bad shit all by itself.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 11:45 AM (BZAd3)

77 O.T. So will Barky invite slow Joe to his circle jerk sessions now that the Mooch can't participate?

Posted by: Hop Sing, cook and cattle rustler, babysitter and bottle washer. at January 06, 2014 11:46 AM (m193R)

78 Wait... wait...

*giggle*

this is, like, the best part....

*giggle*

pay people not to work!

like, that would be a way cooler way to do shit that the way we do it now, yannow?

hold on.. I should be writing this down.  This shit is genius....

*giggle*

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 11:46 AM (NXg/k)

79 OT breaking news:  The Time-Life building is on fire.  We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 11:46 AM (XUKZU)

80 Don't you homo's be forgetting about the $85 billion I've been busting my hump printin each month

Posted by: The Federal Reserve at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (q+zA9)

81

>>I don't know about the larger cities but here in my rural area since the war on coal the economy is in the shitter.

.

.

.Here in Central Kentucky we have lost over 6,000 coal mining and related jobs in the last few years.  It took awhile, but Obama's war on coal that he promised finally took off.

Posted by: Registered Voter at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (Hdbf3)

82 But I still get my free Obamaphone, right?

Posted by: LIV at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (9GG/0)

83 And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing, not more of the same but social justice...

Posted by: brak at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (NaTky)

84

I posted this before but my hometown of Lake Charles , LA has over 13 billion in projects proposed of which 90% is to do with the energy sector. 

 

With a swipe of  his pen,  Obama could create billions more for other states if he would just approve  the  Keystone pipeline.    That  he won't  should be an impeachable offense.  

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (m2CN7)

85 O.T. So will Barky invite slow Joe to his circle jerk sessions now that the Mooch can't participate?


----


.... thats a secular jerk session....

Keep up man.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (nELVU)

86 Let's see. We're too the point where I noticed that the Tea Shop in the mall was hiring yesterday and am probably going down when the thaw happens to apply. So no, the economy is not doing any better. Fuck this president, and fuck the congress that's more concerned with extending unemployment benefits (which do jack for the economy in actual terms) and less concerned with encouraging capital growth.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (GaqMa)

87 OT breaking news: The Time-Life building is on fire. We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 03:46 PM (XUKZU)


All those Elvis records... gone!

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 11:47 AM (BZAd3)

88 Yes. Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 03:42 PM (LI48c) --Bring it!

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 11:48 AM (X3GkB)

89 that is one fine present

Now just get him shooting
USPSA,
UDPA
3 Gun
US Carbine Association

or something so he doesn't have a real nice safe queen

Posted by: Assault Comment Generator at January 06, 2014 03:43 PM (q+zA9)



Though he won't be allowed to carry it as his personal weapon, I hope he gets a chance to one-up the MARSOC guys with it.


But he has to let me shoot it too!

Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:48 AM (GQ8sn)

90 demand side govt policy == stimulus.   Tried once in 2009 at $1T .  Failed.

Posted by: jb at January 06, 2014 11:49 AM (3tdHf)

91 57 misusing the word 'secular'.
Just to be safe, I binged it, and in the top five or six returned results were four different definitions of the word. So slap me silly.
'

I searched it before i posted - it wouldn't have been the first time I was ignorant, and all of thew first six responses came up with the traditional meaning - loosely: "not related to religion".

As far as I can tell, economists just randomly picked a word to distinguish one type of stagnation from another to make their analysis sound more erudite. It that context, the word means nothing.

Slap. Slap. Slap.

Posted by: West at January 06, 2014 11:49 AM (1Rgee)

92 88 Yes.

Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 03:42 PM (LI48c)

--Bring it!

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 03:48 PM (X3GkB)

 

Well you didn't ask for that.

Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 11:49 AM (LI48c)

93 This will end in tears. Tears, yes. Also: fire. And possibly: ice.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 11:49 AM (1hM1d)

94 79 OT breaking news: The Time-Life building is on fire. We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 03:46 PM (XUKZU)


Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Posted by: Time-Life's Insurers at January 06, 2014 11:49 AM (RD7QR)

95 OT breaking news: The Time-Life building is on fire. We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.


Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 03:46 PM (XUKZU)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Posted by: Time-Life's Insurers at January 06, 2014 03:49 PM (RD7QR)



Don't worry.


The Pope will save them.  He owes them one.



Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (GQ8sn)

96 79 OT breaking news: The Time-Life building is on fire. We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 03:46 PM (XUKZU) finally some good news.

Posted by: Hop Sing, cook and cattle rustler, babysitter and bottle washer. at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (m193R)

97
OT breaking news: The Time-Life building is on fire. We may be deprived of Time's keen political insight.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 03:46 PM (XUKZU)











Arson for insurance fraud is my guess. It's not as if Time will make any money otherwise.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (TIIx5)

98 Tears, yes. Also: fire. And possibly: ice.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 03:49 PM (1hM1d)


----


.... and lots of empty brass.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (nELVU)

99 Allen G, Don't forget SCOAMF's huge stimulus bill.

Posted by: Carol at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (z4WKX)

100 Yes. As is significant inflation that the US Govt claims doesn't exist.
***
Groceries cost 50-100% more today then 5 years ago.

And yet inflation is claimed to be 0-2% per annum.

Yep, that's legit.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 11:50 AM (P3U0f)

101 Every time a recession technically ends, the economic cycle clock starts again, and it will eventually run out. You can just look at that chart and tell we are eventually going to hit that recession wall. Also they changed the GDP measurement not too long ago, July? So those numbers are finally coming home to roost. 

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 11:51 AM (WdbF7)

102 7) ....

um..  I mean

4) ....

Oh whatever, dude.

print a shitload of money and buy up every share of stock in every company everywhere....

*giggle*

(seriously, this is some seriously good shit.) 

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 11:51 AM (NXg/k)

103 80 Don't you homo's be forgetting about the $85 billion I've been busting my hump printin each month I thought you was cuttin' back to a mere $75 billion per month starting soonish?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 11:51 AM (1hM1d)

104 Artificially juicing the economy with money we don't have results in artificially raising prices for things. Thus creating a bubble. And we may be back to creating a second housing bubble. ******* Actually followed the link. The author missed another factor I think--especially in California which would be a large percentage of the market--it is the hurdles that the local government has put in to slow down the foreclosure process. At least that's what I hear. So the hypothesis is that the supply is artificially low.

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 11:52 AM (RJMhd)

105 88 Yes. Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 03:42 PM (LI48c) --Bring it! Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 03:48 PM (X3GkB) Well you didn't ask for that. Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 03:49 PM (LI48c) --Would you pretty-please with-a-cherry-on-top post the linky for the game?

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 11:52 AM (X3GkB)

106 I'm sure it's been pointed out the loss in quality jobs and possibly hours worked.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 11:52 AM (WdbF7)

107 Don't forget SCOAMF's huge stimulus bill. The problem with that is that the exact nature of the spending was so obfuscated, it's hard to tell if it's had a negative effect (well- how negative its effect was). Also, stimulus itself (especially a "one time" bill like Porkulous) should not be able to stymie the economy for this long. So it would either have to be extraordinarily bad spending (possible) or I don't think it would be having much of an effect in 2013/2014. But, yes, it certainly didn't help.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 11:53 AM (PYAXX)

108

Goosing consumer demand isn't going to work when almost every consumer is paying more for gasoline, groceries, and health insurance this year thanks to Obama and the Democrats.   It would require basically giving every taxpayer a 100% tax holiday this year to provide that much demand stimulus. 

 

I just did a family budget this weekend for 2014.  My husband and I combined are still not earning as much as we did in 2008, while gas prices have doubled (while my commute went from 40 to 105 miles a day), health insurance is up 30%, groceries are up a good 15% at least, and we have a kid in college to pay for now with another one going in 2015.   You better believe this consumer is going to spend next to nothing this year.   No vacation, minimal college visits, and hope for no expensive funerals to travel to.

 

I just hope this new housing bubble lasts until 2015 when I plan to sell my house and move to downsize and get closer to my work.

Posted by: rockmom at January 06, 2014 11:53 AM (Q4elb)

109

ok so far the list is

 

Obama Care

Dodd-Frank

Sox

The Fed's Printing

227 weeks of unemployemt or whatever the # is

Those 'Stealth' tax increases a year or 2 ago

 

 

oh all those plus the Thug Elitist we got parked at 1600 Pensylvania Ave.

 

 

 

 

Posted by: Jack B Nimble at January 06, 2014 11:53 AM (q+zA9)

110 In this context this is what secular means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_variation

Posted by: LIV at January 06, 2014 11:54 AM (9GG/0)

111 oops sock/off

Posted by: chemjeff at January 06, 2014 11:54 AM (9GG/0)

112 .... and lots of empty brass. Well, I didn't specify which sort of fire it would be...remember to police your brass, you may have to reload that sh!t.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 11:54 AM (1hM1d)

113

"sluggish growth and output, and employment levels well below potential, might coincide for some time to come with problematically low real interest rates."

 

Sounds like Japan in the '90's following a real estate bubble and bad loans on banks' balance sheets, which were left there. But no problem, that is what TARP is for to take the bad paper off the banks' balance sheets, right? RIGHT??????!!!!!!!

 

Posted by: J. Locke at January 06, 2014 11:54 AM (9RGT+)

114

Posted by: Marcus at January 06, 2014 03:36 PM (GGCsk)

 

 

True  and  the  bad  debt  in  the  system  hasn't  been  defaulted  and  until  it  is  asset  prices  can't  reset  to  their  true  value.  But  we  can't  clear  the  systemic  bad  debt  because  the  banks  and  the  other  crony  capitalists  would  have  to  eat  their  losses.  Instead  the  Fed  continues  keeping  the  TBTF  banks  afloat  with  about  45  billion  a  month. They  don't  care  if  it  doubles  the  cost  of  your  groceries...until  we  start  decorating  lamp  posts.  

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at January 06, 2014 11:55 AM (rXcBX)

115 Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 03:50 PM (P3U0f) Just spent $11.28 at McD's... same meal LAST year??? $8 something...

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 06, 2014 11:55 AM (lZBBB)

116 Oh shit!  MSNBC and guest have found us out.  They've discovered our collective pathological hatred for Mitt's grandchild:

http://tinyurl.com/k7sqq36

I mean America's first half-white president.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 11:55 AM (BZAd3)

117 227 MARY?

Posted by: Sandra at January 06, 2014 11:55 AM (4d7QP)

118 --Would you pretty-please with-a-cherry-on-top post the linky for the game?

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 03:52 PM (X3GkB)

 

http://firstrowus1.eu/

 

Should be available there.  One of the links they end up giving should provide video though you'll have to work through the crappy in video ads to get them out of the way.

Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 11:55 AM (LI48c)

119 Ha! Speaking of that Rolling Stones Five Points New Amerika Manifesto--here is the author's LinkedIn resume: Jesse Myerson's Overview Current Co-host at Tarbell Industries Communications Associate at New York State Nurses Association Columnist at CUNY Graduate Center Advocate see all Past Canvass Organizer at Working America Political Organizer at 1199 SEIU Organizer at Occupy Wall Street Artistic Director at Full of Noises Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC Education Bard College Yikes!

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 11:56 AM (RJMhd)

120 Listen up wingnuts, I can prove to you that the economy is getting better: five years ago people bought five gallons of milk for $15. These days, they're spending $30 for the same! That's a 100% increase in the economy! -your liberal betterz

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 06, 2014 11:56 AM (GrtrJ)

121 Summers is dead wrong on #2.

Repeat after me folks:  low interest rates are not the same as loose money, low interest rates are not the same as loose money, low interest rates are not the same as loose money.

This is something first predicted by Fisher in the 1930s and later expounded by Friedman in the 1970s -- the eventual result of a successful low-inflation targeting regime like that of the Volcker/Greenspan/Bernanke is low nominal interest rates.  This is because over a period of decades investors gradually come to believe the Fed will enforce price stability -- especially when the Fed is so explicitly adamant about those long-term expectations.  These low nominal rates do NOT mean money is loose, they mean tight money has succeeded in capping inflation expectations.

The Fed doesn't need to do QE, indeed it's probably a terrible idea.  All they need to do is target something other than 2% inflation -- like NGDP growth of 4-5%.  The markets will do the rest. 

That policy has the advantage of being naturally countercyclical -- tighter during booms, looser during busts -- and does away with all the Krugmanite nonsense about liquidity traps.

Posted by: TallDave at January 06, 2014 11:56 AM (lNW+B)

122 Pretty sure the condoms won't be used by the WNBA ticket owners, nor vive versa. So the two make excellent currency!!

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 06, 2014 11:56 AM (YJSRY)

123 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 06, 2014 03:53 PM (PYAXX) I'm still not sure I agree with EoJ about the state of capital. To the extent money is cheap, it's really only cheap for financial institutions. The regulatory blizzard of Dodd-Frank has made banks afraid to lend (because if a loan goes bust, the FDIC might use it as an excuse to take over said bank, or force a marriage with another bank.) And speaking of those forced marriages, various banks are still reeling from that was well. We had several "super-regional" banks around here forced to absorb smaller banks (at gun point by the feds) whose balance sheets were radically different than the larger banks traditional model. Which of course slowed things up even further. On the flip side though, banks and corporations hanging on to cash may be the only thing keeping hyperinflation at bay (leaving us with "moderate" inflation.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 11:57 AM (GaqMa)

124 Who's the new hipster skank on Fox News? I made the mistake of tuning in Shep and he had her on. I quickly changed channels.


Posted by: Pintail at January 06, 2014 11:57 AM (Cs2tJ)

125
I think we need to increase funding to find a cure for secular cell anemia.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 11:57 AM (nELVU)

126 What is missing is a plot of the Labor Participation Rate. See here: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 11:57 AM (aDwsi)

127 The suggestions from the Rolling Stone article would pep up the economy.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 06, 2014 11:57 AM (9W1fA)

128 I just hope this new housing bubble lasts until 2015 when I plan to sell my house and move to downsize and get closer to my work. That's a good plan. I like that plan. I hope the bubble doesn't go *poof* until after you move, but before you buy a different house. Nothing wrong with renting for a while to get there. And that gives you the chance to scope out neighborhoods, unless you're already very familiar with your target location.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 06, 2014 11:58 AM (1hM1d)

129 I blame ATMs and self-service supermarket checkouts!

Posted by: jakeman at January 06, 2014 11:58 AM (vH4YP)

130 OOH!  OOH!

I got it, man.  Why don't we just make everything free!

That way..  dig.. no one would have to work ever!!

The government would take care of everyone and we could all just hang out all day and do art or play Candy Crush or shit like that all day.....

......oooooohh, candy... 

I'm hungry, man.

You got any Doritos around?

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 11:58 AM (NXg/k)

131
May have been said already but here goes:

1. The unemployment rate is well over 11% if it was calculated the same as previous years.

2. A new calculation was started last June for the economic growth rate that adds 2 to 3 percent to the previous calculation.

Its propaganda all the way down now.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (MaP11)

132 124 Who's the new hipster skank on Fox News? I made the mistake of tuning in Shep and he had her on. I quickly changed channels. -------- Kennedy. Yes, one name.

Posted by: Adam at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (Aif/5)

133 With a swipe of his pen, Obama could create billions more for other states if he would just approve the Keystone pipeline. He's torn between billions for the middle of the country and billions for his Muslim Brotherhood. Just kidding. He's not torn.

Posted by: t-bird at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (FcR7P)

134 Glenn Beck is defending Melissa Harris-Perry. oof.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (7ObY1)

135

>>Sounds like Japan in the '90's following a real estate bubble and bad loans on banks' balance sheets, which were left there. But no problem, that is what TARP is for to take the bad paper off the banks' balance sheets, right? RIGHT??????!!!!!!!

.

.

.The bad loans are still out there.  I know a couple who intentionally quit paying their mortgage even when they could and they stayed in their house for almost two years because the bank didn't want it.  They saved the money they did not pay for their mortgage and used it to buy a brand new Jeep.  The bank let them stay in their house for over 20 months without making a payment because they didn't want the property empty they said.  I think it was because they didn't want yet another $165,000 bad loan on their books.

Posted by: Registered Voter at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (Hdbf3)

136 Kennedy. Yes, one name.

Posted by: Adam at January 06, 2014 03:59 PM (Aif/5)



The same one from MTV?

Posted by: EC at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (GQ8sn)

137 Call me when interest rates hit 5%.

Posted by: A Growing Economy at January 06, 2014 11:59 AM (4d7QP)

138 "We have not figured out how to get people participating in the economy when their labor is not needed." Posted by: Reactionary at January 06, 2014 03:44 PM (or5/Z) Sure we have, it's called "entrepreneurship" and the internet has put it startlingly within reach of almost everyone. But not everyone has the mindset to grasp the opportunities. Schools need to stop teaching the "job" mentality and start teaching a value creation mentality.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at January 06, 2014 12:00 PM (pginn)

139

UBL is dead and Al Quida is on the run...

 

 

so at least we got that going for us

Posted by: Jack B Nimble at January 06, 2014 12:00 PM (q+zA9)

140 126 What is missing is a plot of the Labor Participation Rate. See here: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 03:57 PM (aDwsi) ******** Holy shit. That looks like Kim Kardashian plummeting down a ski slope.--black course--of course.

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 12:00 PM (RJMhd)

141 Japan in the '90's

Yep, they needed looser money but they were fooled by low nominal rates into buying the Keynesian/Krugmanite mantra of "liquidity trap, must spend lots of taxpayer money!"

As a result they're a country full of Bridges to Nowhere and massive debt with no growth to show for it.  All they really needed to do was drop their insane 1% inflation target -- as soon as they started doing so last year, the Nikkei shot up as markets said "Finally!  Some growth is in our future!"

Posted by: TallDave at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (lNW+B)

142 Organizer at Occupy Wall Street

Yeah, dude.  And you don't just get that title by showing up either.

I had to work my ass for making those signs and keeping myself from getting raped.

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (NXg/k)

143 Groceries cost 50-100% more today then 5 years ago.

And yet inflation is claimed to be 0-2% per annum.

Yep, that's legit.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 03:50 PM (P3U0f)

 

I just spent $300 on groceries and it's barely enough to last my family of 3 for 2 weeks.  Ground beef is now over $4 a pound; it was $1.99 just 2 years ago.  Boxes of cereal and crackers and even pasta are getting smaller to the vanishing point, to make us think we are not paying more for that stuff.  I can't even remember the last time I bought a decent piece of fresh fish or steak.  My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. 

 

And I have an income well into six figures.  I cannot imagine how middle-class wage earners with long commutes are surviving in this economy. 

Posted by: rockmom at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (Q4elb)

144
Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC









Uhhhhhhh, I REALLY don't want to know what that means.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (TIIx5)

145 Kennedy. Yes, one name.

She's irritating. More so than Shep I dare say.

Posted by: Pintail at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (Cs2tJ)

146 Another reason for a third party:

http://tinyurl.com/mhnepuh

Repub establishment challenge against congressman who "cares to much about the constitutionality of bills."

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (BZAd3)

147 The same one from MTV? ------ I think so.

Posted by: Adam at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (Aif/5)

148 And that means we should do the exact opposite of what Obama is doing, not more of the same. Democrats have hard heads. That's why they keep advocating and doing the same shit over and over, even after it's pretty obvious that none of it has worked, or is likely to ever work.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (G5cc0)

149 Who's the new hipster skank on Fox News? Former MTV veejay and frequent Red Eye guest Kennedy. She's a Libertarian like so many of Gutfeld's favorites. Took a lot of shit in Hollyweird for her views back when she was on MTV. She's paid her dues, taken her hits and stayed strong. She doesn't bother me none.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 12:01 PM (7ObY1)

150 The same one from MTV? Yep. She seems to fall into the libertarian ranks.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 06, 2014 12:02 PM (naUcP)

151 http://firstrowus1.eu/ Should be available there. One of the links they end up giving should provide video though you'll have to work through the crappy in video ads to get them out of the way. Posted by: buzzion at January 06, 2014 03:55 PM (LI48c) --Thanks! I keep forgetting the latest versions of First Row's url as ICE does the critical work of chasing pirated internet broadcasts. Fortunately, I just found out that I can also get the radio feed here so I have that as a fallback (I'm reluctant to play it with teh video feed since I know it will be faster and spoil the visuals).

Posted by: logprof at January 06, 2014 12:02 PM (X3GkB)

152 Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC










Uhhhhhhh, I REALLY don't want to know what that means.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 04:01 PM (TIIx5)


---


It means those damn dirty Jews are EVERYWHERE!!.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (nELVU)

153 144 Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC Uhhhhhhh, I REALLY don't want to know what that means. Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 04:01 PM (TIIx5) ************ Ya--I am NOT googling that.

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (RJMhd)

154 THE SCARIEST JOBS CHART EVER http://is.gd/tFLVJl Take from the rich to feed to poor until there are rich no more.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (QupBk)

155 This is just really stupid. All that we need to do is raise the 'minimum wage', and increase the cost of energy. The jobs will come roaring back.

Posted by: Barky at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (aDwsi)

156 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. She should have asked for GOLD!

Posted by: G. Gordon Liddy at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (4d7QP)

157 Posted by: rockmom at January 06, 2014 04:01 PM (Q4elb) Well for starters we shop at sam's now, and Aldi's . Also, the kid having has reached "very slow" status. And of my friends who do have kids, they're relying on family for child care so they can work full time (but not pay for child care because they can't afford it.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (GaqMa)

158 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. She should have asked for GOLD!

Posted by: G. Gordon Liddy at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (4d7QP)

159 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. She should have asked for GOLD!

Posted by: G. Gordon Liddy at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (4d7QP)

160 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. She should have asked for GOLD!

Posted by: G. Gordon Liddy at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (4d7QP)

161 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas because I refuse to buy it anymore. She should have asked for GOLD!

Posted by: G. Gordon Liddy at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (4d7QP)

162 This is just really stupid. All that we need to do is raise the 'minimum wage', and increase the cost of energy. The jobs will come roaring back.

Posted by: Barky at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (aDwsi)

163 So in economics "secular" = "long term?" Or what? "Worldly"? "Not of the economist priesthood?"

Posted by: Caliban at January 06, 2014 12:03 PM (DrC22)

164 When I hear about stimulus programs I think of this from Milton Friedman's trip to an Asian country. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: “You don’t understand. This is a jobs program.” To which Milton replied: “Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it’s jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels.”


Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 12:04 PM (WdbF7)

165 Schools need to stop teaching the "job" mentality and start teaching a value creation mentality. And the government needs to get out of the way. Making it easy to add new employees doesn’t just mean more hiring by existing companies—the lower the cost—and risk—of hiring, the more new companies and new industries will be created. Make it so that you don’t have to hire a team of lawyers and another team of insurance and other regulatory experts to have employees, and the sky’s the limit on employment.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 12:04 PM (QF8uk)

166 Wow, a triple. My little wiFi router just went haywire.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 12:04 PM (4d7QP)

167 144 Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC Uhhhhhhh, I REALLY don't want to know what that means. Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 04:01 PM (TIIx5) ******* Maybe itsa Muzzie Outreach "Club"...

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 12:05 PM (RJMhd)

168 And Bill Deblasio's decision to stop horse carriage rides in NY won't help employment there. The drivers lose jobs and horses will be shipped off to slaughters houses in CA or Mexico so Bill's buddy who donated to his campaign can take the land their stables are on. What a corrupt crook because everybody wants to ride in a electric carriage when they go to NYC. "The Other MCCain" has a good story about it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 06, 2014 12:05 PM (7kkQJ)

169 Wow, a triple. My little wiFi router just went haywire.

Posted by: garrett at January 06, 2014 04:04 PM (4d7QP)


----


No.... that was us.   Our bad.

Posted by: NSA Watchers Assigned to AoSHQ at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (nELVU)

170 Wait...I think I just proved I don't know jack about dick.

Posted by: Las Vegas Odds at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (RJMhd)

171 Organizer, Spokesperson at US Uncut NYC

I got to see dicks.

*giggle*

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (NXg/k)

172 @143 - yeah, I think 100% food inflation in 5 years is just about right. Two things have prevented this from looking like quite the disaster it is: a) For the five years prior to that inflation had largely been driven by energy prices, which have flattened out to some degree, and b) Those who lost in the 2007 housing tumble have been replaced by those who have been winning, who got in at relative lows and have reaped the appreciation of the last two, three years.

Posted by: JEM at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (o+SC1)

173 The tragedy of programs like the 3% down mortgage is that whole industries develop that depend on them, and when they fail, the industries cry bloody murder. That's why rent control sticks in NYC; any new properties on the market at market value would destroy the value of the properties already sold at the inflated price.

So either way, someone is harmed. I have a feeling it's going to be the taxpayer again.

Posted by: PJ at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (ZWaLo)

174 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. Write your own manhole joke. Involving one or more MSDNC hosts if possible.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 12:06 PM (7ObY1)

175

Myself?  I'm haven't been impressed by the eonomy since the 80's.  Since  then it's been all government manipulation.  There's nothing free-market about it anymore.  Capitalism is pretty much dead.

 

What it is  far down the road of becoming,  is government letting one have what they think they need.  I think there's a socialist  expression about that.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 12:07 PM (oxyxf)

176 Quit your whining Morons!!! The economy is behaving splendidly!!!! For one run by socialists. We are getting a taste of socialism/communism/Marxism. Cannot wait for 2016!!!

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 06, 2014 12:07 PM (50c0S)

177 G Gordon Liddy, your barrel awaits...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 12:07 PM (7ObY1)

178 Oh yeah, this economy is doing so frickin good that imone of the underemployed. And barely keeping my head above the rising shit pool thanks to Obozo and his low-info idiot worhsippers! Some great economy!

Posted by: Cycomiko66 at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (x/MmU)

179 The problem with housing down payments is that the cat is out of the bag.

Once they started offering houses with low or no down payment, the real estate agents and developers took over, and the speculators went whole hog.

Thereby driving up housing prices to the point where shitty 80's constructed townhouses are running 400K in some areas.

So there's no way most families could drop 40K on a down payment.

So they keep the program requiring low or no down.

And the cycle continues.  Once that cat is out of the bag, it can't be put back.  It's fine and dandy to tell the working class to come up with 10-20% of 80K, but another thing entirely when a fairly mediocre property is cutting down 400K on average.

Posted by: grognard at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (/29Nl)

180 Yay! More looting income from the young and future generations to give to Obama/Dim cronies and crooks. I'd laugh like hell except the stupid who voted for Obama ckufed everyone else. Enjoy your lack of disposable income and thus severely diminished life-style dumbasses.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (0cMkb)

181 Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 03:57 PM (aDwsi) Yup, when you add back in the 3% the Government does not count towards employment anymore??? We've have not been below 10% unemployment since this crap started...

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (lZBBB)

182 "The Other MCCain" has a good story about it. Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 06, 2014 04:05 PM (7kkQJ) In "93" I took my wife, then girlfriend to NYC to see a play for her B-Day. We took a carraige ride through central park. It was a cool October night. I will never forget it as long as I live. Liberals FK UP everything that brings joy.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (XIxXP)

183 What this country urgently needs is more selfies of Kim K's gimantic ass.

And yes, whatever she wears makes her ass look fat.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (BZAd3)

184 I don't know fuck all about the economy. No Democrat does. I just stand up here and try and look black and awesome. *beaming smile*

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (oFCZn)

185 And I have an income well into six figures. I cannot imagine how middle-class wage earners with long commutes are surviving in this economy.

Posted by: rockmom at January 06, 2014 04:01 PM (Q4elb)

 

A coworker just got married,  she and her husband pull down $65k total

 

they are not getting by that good.  His commute plus the house she bought durring the first BHO approved try-to reinflate-the housing bubble-that-is now worth $20k less.....

 

$65k used to be alot of money

Posted by: Jack B Nimble at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (q+zA9)

186 "manhole"

*snicker*

hey, man, who stole my bongos?

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (NXg/k)

187 What is missing is a plot of the Labor Participation Rate. See here: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 A 3% drop while the population grows. Helluva job, Barky.

Posted by: t-bird at January 06, 2014 12:08 PM (FcR7P)

188 174 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. Write your own manhole joke. Involving one or more MSDNC hosts if possible. Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 04:06 PM (7ObY1) ############ Who farted?

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 06, 2014 12:09 PM (50c0S)

189 Random note, our Homeowner's insurance doesn't cover, specifically, sump pump failure, so we'll be paying for the Great Christmas Flood of 2013. Not as bad as I suspected it might be,$850 for Servpro spending 4 days drying/cleaning/checking on the cellar, during a holiday week. With a $500 deductible, it's almost negligible.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:09 PM (ZshNr)

190
Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level.


Write your own manhole joke. Involving one or more MSDNC hosts if possible.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 04:06 PM (7ObY1)










Calm down, I just had lunch. Love those asada bean and rice burritos!

Posted by: Chris Hayes at January 06, 2014 12:09 PM (TIIx5)

191 The recovery is so great that Barry and Dems weapon of choice for 2014 is unemployment benefits. The truly shitty nature of the economy/job market had been either ignored or lied about by the MFM. It's a huge story of millions of people suffering with no end in sight but the MFM would rather push the agenda

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 06, 2014 12:09 PM (1Jaio)

192 Jobs can never come backin this regulatory climate and They probsably wouldn't if we lossened them. There is no new innovation around the corner that can expand the economy like the internet boom and in fact automation and e-delivery Are poised to decimate entire industries. 15-20% unemployment are going to be the norm in a few years and with comprehensive immigration reform on the horizon look for the bottom being cut out from wages at the lower end.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 06, 2014 12:10 PM (+NYjg)

193 You'd think they'd be thanking me.

Posted by: Barky O'genius at January 06, 2014 12:10 PM (dvRYt)

194 Sluggish economy? All Bush's fault, don't you know.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 06, 2014 12:10 PM (HVff2)

195 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. ---------------- Was Al Roker in town? Usual suspects, and all that...

Posted by: Barky at January 06, 2014 12:11 PM (aDwsi)

196 There are jobs by me, but the pay is 2/3rds or less of what it used to be and the out of work younger people can't pass the tests necessary to gain employment. Most critical, the piss tests. So blame the rich and move along.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:11 PM (XIxXP)

197 183 What this country urgently needs is more selfies of Kim K's gimantic ass. And yes, whatever she wears makes her ass look fat. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 04:08 PM (BZAd3) *********** Bad Economy=Need More Kim Kardashian Ass Pics STAT!!

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:11 PM (RJMhd)

198 Calm down, I just had lunch. Love those asada bean and rice burritos! I had a black bean and grilled chicken burrito for lunch. Damn tasty!

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 12:12 PM (7ObY1)

199
The Fed doesn't need to do QE, indeed it's probably a terrible idea. All they need to do is target something other than 2% inflation -- like NGDP growth of 4-5%. The markets will do the rest.

Posted by: TallDave

Intervention in markets is hubris no matter the goal. The opportunity for corruption approaches 100% the more intervention employed. That is to say nothing about the actual ability of the Fed and an administration to pull off any scheme successfully.

There are no group of administrators, bureaucrats, or academics wise enough, knowledgeable enough, or ethical enough to set the core numbers of an economy.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at January 06, 2014 12:12 PM (dwArK)

200 OOPS that should have been 1/3rd.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:12 PM (XIxXP)

201 So blame the rich and move along.

damn straight.

(hey.. you got any weed?)

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 12:12 PM (NXg/k)

202 So we have a Great Depression and foreign events paralleling 1914 - the seeds of WWI*. Lovely. http://tinyurl.com/lkw2o89

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 12:13 PM (IXrOn)

203 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. Write your own manhole joke. Involving one or more MSDNC hosts if possible That AIDS 2.0 is one hell of a disease.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 06, 2014 12:13 PM (0cMkb)

204 Weasel Zippers has a poll up on pot legalization. If you add up the legalization and decriminalization totals, they're beating the "leave it criminalized" vote. Which surprises me a bit, for WZ. Someone in the comments mentioned Ace's post from a few days back.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 12:13 PM (7ObY1)

205 At the same time Secretary of State John Kerry is warning that terrorists are fueling unrest across Iraq and Syria, he is now reaching out to a country his own department for decades has singled out as one of the prime sponsors of terrorism. On Sunday, Kerry suggested that Iran could play a role in Syria peace talks, either formally or informally. The comments, though, have riled groups in the United States concerned about Tehran's long track record of propping up the Assad regime and fomenting chaos in the region. Iran this month marks its 30th year on the State Department's list of State Sponsors of Terrorism -- while Syria has been on that list longer than any other. "You have a forest fire that's raging and you're calling in some of the arsonists ... to discuss the best way to put it out," said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish human rights group. "It's mind-numbing." Kerry just might be the dumbest Sec of State we ever had.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (t3UFN)

206 Lincoln - I think Conservative Crank is facing the same thing. In his case the line froze..., so he may have a shot at something, since it was not a pump failure/system failure per se.

Posted by: Barky at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (aDwsi)

207 So we have a Great Depression and foreign events paralleling 1914 - the seeds of WWI*. Lovely. Well, if the war does start, I'm stayin home with the women and children this time.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (XIxXP)

208 Because all of the growth has gone into the pockets of a small group of people.

Posted by: Palooka at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (f6Xl/)

209 The economy supposedly posted growth of 4.1% last quarter. But....but....Shutdown! Bad! Of course, this precludes the quiet, unexpected downward revision which will be announced the Friday afternoon of the MLK weekend.

Posted by: BuddyPC at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (jfUIE)

210  Glenn Beck is defending Melissa Harris-Perry.

oof.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 03:59 PM (7ObY1)

 

 

------------------------------------------------

 

 

He's probably defending her right (free speech) to say it, not approving of what she said. 

 

I agree.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (6xoO1)

211 Bad Economy=Need More Kim Kardashian Ass Pics STAT!!

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:11 PM (RJMhd)


----


Speaking if Kim and Kanye.....  I just happened to land on SNL whilest flipping thru the channels.   The were doing a spoof skit of the dynamic duo.... which I must admit.... was passably humorous.

First time Id watched SNL since the mid ninety's.


Posted by: fixerupper at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (nELVU)

212 Then add BarryCare on top of an already sluggish economy and you've got yourself unending economic misery. But the majority of people either don't know or don't care and will keep voting for the assholes who created the mess because they are dependent on the state or for lefty social issues even if their lives get worse

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (1Jaio)

213 174 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level.

so that's what happens when you down 6 habaneros after a 4-martini lunch *burp*

Posted by: Crissy Mathews at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (9GG/0)

214 "The economy supposedly posted growth of 4.1% last quarter."

Supposedly, because the fuckers moved the goalposts mid-game, yet again.

NEVER trust any government to EVER accurately collect and report economic statistics. They always screw around with the numbers to make themselves look better.

And as noted upthread by DanMan and others, yep, that's precisely what has been going on here. Late in 2013, the way GDP is calculated was officially redefined. And for some reason, just as with every other previous methodological change, GDP was made to look artificially bigger. Funny how that works. (Of course, when they change the way unemployment and inflation are tabulated, those always go _down_. Funny how that works, too.)

Your all-purpose remedy for goverment bullshit is John Williams' "Shadowstats" Web site, which carefully compiles what unemployment, inflation and GDP would look like if the government had stuck to the original definitions of those metrics. It's depressing but highly informative to track his work versus the latest bulletins from federal MiniTru.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 12:14 PM (gqT4g)

215 The economy is a downer. Pass the weed, man.

Posted by: votermom at January 06, 2014 12:15 PM (GSIDW)

216 I think we will eventually see the rise of black and grey markets. The great thing about the free market is even if the govt. says it's illegal it's still happening.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 12:15 PM (WdbF7)

217

#179 The housing market really ran off the rails in the late 1970s/early 80s when inflation and interest rates went berzerk.   You are right though, the builders and realtors got very comfortable and they are well organized to keep their gravy trains rolling.  Housing bubbles are not just driven by loose credit, they are also driven by realtors who keep convincing sellers to jack up prices and then convince buyers to pay the inflated prices for fear that they are going to pay even more if they wait. 

 

I can tell you a sure sign of a new bubble in northern Virginia - three friends of mine just got real estate licenses.  They are in their mid-50s.  One was a restaurant guy, one owned a Kinko's, and one was just a housewife who saw her friends making huge bucks selling 3 or 4 houses a year.  

Posted by: rockmom at January 06, 2014 12:15 PM (Q4elb)

218 Oh, sucks for CC, hopefully he's not in the 99% of the country that are freezing their balls off.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:15 PM (ZshNr)

219 10.9 deg, blustery winds.

Posted by: Barky at January 06, 2014 12:15 PM (aDwsi)

220 Off w/Barky sock

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:16 PM (aDwsi)

221 Kerry just might be the dumbest Sec of State we ever had.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 04:14 PM (t3UFN)

Word.  Right behind the ever so accomplished Hillary.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:16 PM (BZAd3)

222 My sympathy.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:16 PM (ZshNr)

223 This: "and higher wages drive a convincing pickup in consumer spending and demand,"
And this: "Secular stagnation theory blamed inadequate capital investment for hindering full deployment of labor and other economic resources."

What they mean, is that they are blaming the corporations for hoarding money--money they know better how to spend--which should be spent on workers.

And they mean to drive that money out of the "rich" by any means necessary. Look at their silly push to raise the minimum wage.

It is a belief as firm as in future sunrises amongst the left that the "big" corporations are purposefully holding back vast reserves of money because . . . racism, evil, conservative, evil, racist, greedy, evil, racist, etc.

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 06, 2014 12:16 PM (VjL9S)

224 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level.


Write your own manhole joke. Involving one or more MSDNC hosts if possible.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 06, 2014 04:06 PM (7ObY1)

 

A manhole cover walks into a bar and orders  a  flaming ahole.

 

The bartender brings over Peter King to his table. 

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:17 PM (m2CN7)

225 Black male employment is still near the worst ever recorded. Clearly, the answer is amnesty for illegals.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:17 PM (QupBk)

226 ace, no one is mentioning Wel Watt, new head of Fanny and Freddy. Watt is a socialist and a racist. He has a BAD chip on his shoulder. He is an affirmative action Yale graduate, which he will be sure to remind you of. Expect to see the return of mandatory lending to minorities as the price of banks doing business. He is there for SIX fucking years. Next to the Fed Chair he will be the most important Financial officer in the country. We are so fucking boned.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 12:17 PM (0FSuD)

227 Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 04:09 PM (ZshNr) We have a rider for "Sewer backup" in the basement, I didn't bother to ask if it covers sump pumps (since our house is before sump pits.) We only kept the sewer backup rider because our sewer lateral is 59 years old and soon to be replaced (and does backup.) Although our basement is unfinished, and so we when it has backed up, we've just cleaned it ourselves. But it's close to both the washer and the furnace, so if the backup got bad enough it could harm one of those. And it's only $12/year to keep it .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:17 PM (GaqMa)

228 The great recession ended because we entered into a depression

Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 06, 2014 12:18 PM (1Jaio)

229 Lincoln - I think he was out of pocket for $4500

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:19 PM (aDwsi)

230 OK, I concede that secular has several other meanings, most seemingly plucked out of thin air.

But the other meanings are there and I was wrong. 

First time THAT happened.

Posted by: West at January 06, 2014 12:19 PM (1Rgee)

231 The great recession ended because we entered into a depression Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 06, 2014 04:18 PM (1Jaio) What if there was a depression and nobody knew.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:19 PM (XIxXP)

232 Sup, Rockmom?

Posted by: Bagged Oaty Os at January 06, 2014 12:19 PM (hFL/3)

233 You are right though, the builders and realtors got very comfortable and they are well organized to keep their gravy trains rolling. Housing bubbles are not just driven by loose credit, they are also driven by realtors who keep convincing sellers to jack up prices and then convince buyers to pay the inflated prices for fear that they are going to pay even more if they wait.

You just described Toronto and environs to a T.  There's a bubble here that, when it pops, will make a lot of assholes cry in their poutine.

The salt in the wound?  You cannot get a 30 year fixed.  You can get a 5 year fixed on a 30 year amort.  Every mortgage here effectively has a variable rate after 5 years.

Posted by: grognard at January 06, 2014 12:20 PM (/29Nl)

234 Nip Sip - Watt = Franklin Raines II, and like most remakes, he's worse.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:20 PM (aDwsi)

235 4:20!

Posted by: Rolling Stone(d) Magazine at January 06, 2014 12:21 PM (NXg/k)

236 He is there for SIX fucking years. Next to the Fed Chair he will be the most important Financial officer in the country. We are so fucking boned. Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 04:17 PM (0FSuD) As if in a communist state the financial officers matter? They are usually the first put up against the wall, so no never mind

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 12:21 PM (t3UFN)

237 We re-looked at the terms/contract/exclusions after we called. If we had chosen the "sump pump plan", it was basically the "flood pain" plan, where they cover pretty much all water damage. Crazy expensive for the Piedmont, kinda near the top of a hill, so all in all, we're way ahead.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:21 PM (ZshNr)

238 Well, if the war does start, I'm stayin home with the women and children this time. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 04:14 PM (XIxXP) You'll be in charge of repopulation...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 12:22 PM (IXrOn)

239 And I'm sure it's been pointed out but, it bears repeating: A majority, if not all, of the GDP growth in the last five years has been solely due to the "government spending" portion of the calculation.

I would say that the most dishonest and false economic theory after Marx was the one that posited that government spending should be counted as any sort of positive in any economy--there simply are not the same pressures on public spending that drive private spending.
It's like saying, "I shall calculate accurately the hours of sunlight in a day by including my measurements of the tides." 

Posted by: RoyalOil at January 06, 2014 12:22 PM (VjL9S)

240

Our Best & Brightest are running the economy like JFK's ran the Vietnam War.

 

There was a History or Military Channel thingie on LBJ and Vietnam this weekend, most of the content was actual audio of his meetings and phone calls.  In the Fall of 1965, when he and Macnamarra already knew that the war was unwinnable but were embarking on a huge escalation anyway, LBJ was said to be agonizing over the deaths of the 264 American boys killed thus far. 

 

Don't blame Kennedy for the gap between 264 and 58,000.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 06, 2014 12:22 PM (A0sHn)

241 $4500, that blows. Fucking water.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:22 PM (ZshNr)

242 Govt spending is a direct component of gdp. Only interest on the debt nets out of it. The govt is proud to count a full borrowed hamburger today and barely count any of what's owed back on it. With 5 trillion in new debt over the Obama rein, the only winner is what took it so long to even get to these paltry numbers? Essentially a new stimulus bill was spent every single year of the obama rein, and gets counted directly into gdp. Zimbabwe likely had terrific gdp numbers for awhile too. The govt and the left (but I repeat myself) only plan their finances for tomorrow and not next year or 10 years from now.

Posted by: firsttimemoron at January 06, 2014 12:22 PM (axgta)

243 As if in a communist state the financial officers matter? They are usually the first put up against the wall, so no never mind Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 04:21 PM (t3UFN) It matters because NO mortgages will be allowed unless the banks etc march to Mel's plan. Universal loans for minorities with no pay back. AKA, you will bribe your way NOW if you want to do business with them.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 12:23 PM (0FSuD)

244 Flood plain, but pain works, too.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (ZshNr)

245 @233 I watch a lot of the home shows on hgtv and it always mystified me how insane some of thr prices for homes are in toronto 850-950k for a detached home in the Toronto area. Freaking nuts.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (+NYjg)

246 Because all of the growth has gone into the pockets of a small group of people. Democrats.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (QupBk)

247 "ace, no one is mentioning Wel Watt, new head of Fanny and Freddy. Watt is a socialist and a racist. He has a BAD chip on his shoulder. He is an affirmative action Yale graduate, which he will be sure to remind you of. Expect to see the return of mandatory lending to minorities as the price of banks doing business. He is there for SIX fucking years. Next to the Fed Chair he will be the most important Financial officer in the country. "

Note that if the Republicans are able to take back the Senate this year, it'd be the work of a moment to simply pull the federal charters from the GSEs. Turn Fannie and Freddie into ordinary mortgage firms with no government backing. Let Obama's ethnosocialist cronies slam them into the ground leaving a huge smoking crater. Bankruptcy and liquidation follow. Problem solved, permanently.

Of course when I say it would be "the work of a moment", it would be the work of a moment for actual conservatives with actual spines who were willing to say a firm FUCK YOU to special-interest money.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (gqT4g)

248 We are implementing a vastly larger European-sized welfare state. And so we are getting European-sized secular stagnation. The future is people in school and living with their parents well into their 30s, just like in Europe. Look for an ever smaller birthrate, too, as people can't afford to start a family until they are 34 and then only have 1 kid. At least that will be true of the native population.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (ZPrif)

249 Speaking of business ventures to jump start the economy-FNC.com has the story of the guy that shot Bigfoot and is gonna go around the country and show it to people! For a small fee of course.heh

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at January 06, 2014 12:24 PM (X+nFp)

250 With the amount of money they are spending, they could buy a modest house for everyone in America that doesn't have one.  Once.

But that would remove their ability to profit from bullshit.  So they won't go full commie.  Just dodge around the edges while shoveling money and power into their boiler.

Posted by: grognard at January 06, 2014 12:25 PM (/29Nl)

251 We now have vastly higher structural unemployment than before. And it's likely permanent.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 06, 2014 12:25 PM (ZPrif)

252 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. NYC hobos in the sewers lighting valu-rite farts?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:25 PM (XCfYI)

253 *only wonder. Stupid phone. And like that other guy said, they recently changed the formula to start counting royalties and other garbage that nobody counted before. I believe the estimated impact was something like +2pct. So half the gain was made up, and the other half was borrowed and spent digging ditches and filling them back in again. But you're not supposed to think critically about it

Posted by: firsttimemoron at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (axgta)

254 Old Saliors/Poet; It sounds wonderful and according to the clips on this website the horses are treated quite well. I think they are looking for people who would like to see the horses and the rides saved and to share their stories. The carriage drivers speak so affectionately of their horses and seem to love their work http://www.savenychorsecarriages.com/

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (7kkQJ)

255 My immediate supervisor just announced his retirement, for health reasons, though the rumor is that it's to avoid subpoenas.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (QupBk)

256 "Secular stagnation theory blamed inadequate capital investment for hindering full deployment of labor and other economic resources."

Oh, you mean like companies buying back their own stock instead of funding expansion for the future?  Like so many companies are doing now?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (BZAd3)

257 Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 04:25 PM (XCfYI) Kaboom farts.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (X+nFp)

258 Current FOX headline: Manhole explodes in Midtown Manhattan, sending flames shooting 10 to 11 feet above street level. Martin Bashir finally flushed his shitter?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (oFCZn)

259 My daughter actually asked her friends to give her breakfast cereal for Christmas

Sounds like it's time for a comeback!

Posted by: the Kaboom Clown at January 06, 2014 12:26 PM (fD/pw)

260 You'll be in charge of repopulation... Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 04:22 PM (IXrOn) I'll have to ask Vic ti give me a hand.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:27 PM (XIxXP)

261 Govt spending is a direct component of gdp

Where does Govt get the money to spend?
First they take it out of someone's pocket, then put it back in.
or
They borrow it from someone, taking it out of the economy to put it back in.
or
They make it up out of thin air, magic money from nothing.

Is there another way?

Posted by: Bill Wednesday at January 06, 2014 12:28 PM (8RshS)

262 I'm just going to go all Sgt Schultz. I know nothing, nothing.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:28 PM (QupBk)

263

I contiually question  the decision to purchase agan  five year  ago   instead of rent.   I put down 20% and put about 30k in renovations.  My market value probably has gone up maybe 40k from  my purchase price but all that does is get me closer to the black if you count the real estate agent  fee I will incur if I sell,  the water heater, a/c compressor and other upkeep repairs that  I have had to make plus the property taxes plus the insurance.  That's not including the possibility that I will have to replace the roofing both flat and shingled areas before I move.  

 

My positives are my tax deductions and no increase in monthly mortgage (basically rent)  and at least some portion of that going towards my principal. 

 

I figure I'm only about 10,000 in the red.   Homeownership.  Not all its cut out to be. 

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:28 PM (m2CN7)

264 Democrats lie, protecting Raines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqYY72PeRM

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:28 PM (aDwsi)

265 In the run-up to the 2012 election I did "drive-by economic reports" at Free Dominion of what I saw and learned in my travels.
20% white jobless.
50% black.
Whole shopping centers empty. Some never had the first tenant.
Nobody seemed to care. As long as the TV showed them happy pictures.
Maroons, mostly all....

Posted by: backhoe at January 06, 2014 12:29 PM (ULH4o)

266 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 06, 2014 04:26 PM (7kkQJ) I don't know horses well but I do know what it looks like when a person has affection for an Animal and yes, he cared about the horse.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 12:29 PM (XIxXP)

267 255 My immediate supervisor just announced his retirement, for health reasons, though the rumor is that it's to avoid subpoenas. Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 04:26 PM (QupBk) **** That cannot be good.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:29 PM (RJMhd)

268 Kaboom farts. In NYC, Kaboom! farts you!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:30 PM (XCfYI)

269 Isn't it poised to make a comeback. For the folks. And middle class.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:30 PM (fWAjv)

270

you guy know what will really stomp on the gas pedal of this economy?

 

that is right, an 20% increase in the Min Wage

and

Comprehensive Immigration reform

 

 

B. Huseain Obama

Jan 6 2014

Posted by: Jack B Nimble at January 06, 2014 12:30 PM (q+zA9)

271 262 I'm just going to go all Sgt Schultz. I know nothing, nothing. Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 04:28 PM (QupBk) ******* Exactly. Plus your memory--it now sucks! I sleep with a labor law lawyer. Trust me....or don't.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:30 PM (RJMhd)

272 Recovery summer this year, for sure!

Posted by: Joe Biden's hairplugs at January 06, 2014 12:31 PM (kbOju)

273

191 Thank God Obama is term limited.

---

That ammendment was passed when only white men could be elected president. So naturally it only applies to White Men.

Posted by: DNC legal team at January 06, 2014 12:31 PM (SO2Q8)

274 There was a History or Military Channel thingie on LBJ and Vietnam this weekend, most of the content was actual audio of his meetings and phone calls. In the Fall of 1965, when he and Macnamarra already knew that the war was unwinnable but were embarking on a huge escalation anyway, LBJ was said to be agonizing over the deaths of the 264 American boys killed thus far.

Don't blame Kennedy for the gap between 264 and 58,000.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 06, 2014 04:22 PM (A0sHn)

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

There's a mistake in your comment.  Vietnam was winnable.  But because the LBJ/McNamera/UN cabal only wanted limited war so that we wouldn't piss off the Russkies or the Chinese,  and that the colleges and universities allowed themselves to be used like communist whores, we lost.

 

One simple thing could have  won that war handily.  Bombing (and continual bombing) of Haiphong Harbor in  North Vietnam.  And that's not even counting if we would have gone  into Cambodia and Laos to choke a bitch.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 12:31 PM (6xoO1)

275 2014: The Year of Kaboom. And Burning.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 06, 2014 12:32 PM (AiYlm)

276 Two words-- Scooter Libby.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:32 PM (RJMhd)

277 Unemployment checks are the fastest way to create jobs.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:32 PM (fWAjv)

278

174 -

 

Exploding manholes in Manhattan?

 

Who you gonna call?

 

Seriously, who? 

Posted by: Ray, Egon, and Peter at January 06, 2014 12:32 PM (TOk1P)

279 Nood.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:33 PM (XCfYI)

280 Unemployment checks are the fastest way to create jobs. Posted by: RWC ------------- Stimulus!

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:33 PM (aDwsi)

281 You'll be in charge of repopulation... Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 04:22 PM (IXrOn) I'll have to ask Vic ti give me a hand. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 06, 2014 04:27 PM (XIxXP) Good call. He has experience from after the big flood.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 12:33 PM (QF8uk)

282 I watch a lot of the home shows on hgtv and it always mystified me how insane some of thr prices for homes are in toronto 850-950k for a detached home in the Toronto area.

Freaking nuts.

Posted by: Kreplach at January 06, 2014 04:24 PM (+NYjg)


Insane is a good word for it.  Entirely driven by real estate agents, developers, and willing banks, working nicely together to inflate prices and destroy the availability of livable neighborhoods for average people.

My in-laws bought their bungalow, 2 BR, finished basement - nothing special, mind you - for 130K about 30 years ago.

The land alone would go for 600K now.  It would be bought, the house torn down, and a McMansion put up where you couldn't swing a shutter without hitting the house next to yours.

Naturally, before it was sold, your agent would tell you you'd need to do 20K in renovations to get top dollar for it.  Even though it will either be torn down or gutted to suit the preferences of people with more credit than brains.  Because this gets more $ for the agent's best friend - his illegal contractors from Poland or Ukraine - and increases his commission to boot!

Sometimes, an agent will tell you not to reno.  This is because they are going to have their shady Russian mafia buddy lowball bid on it, have it reno'ed by the aforementioned Polish guys, and then flip it under the table, while collecting commission on both transactions.

An enterprising servant of the people would be investigating the shit out of this, but they have to keep cashing their checks, too.

Posted by: grognard at January 06, 2014 12:34 PM (/29Nl)

283 Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 04:28 PM (m2CN7) We bought at the end of 2012. I suppose I can't complain to much, the market was hitting bottom then, and the house had a bunch of work done to it by the sellers (estate). So we leveraged the condition to get a decent price. But including the escrow for taxes and insurance it's $530 more per month than we were paying as renters. Granted it's over double the size, so maybe it was worth it? This is the first year we got to tax any meaningful deductions for it, currently our tax estimates show us 4k over the standard deduction, so that's something I guess. But clearly it left us with less flexibility (as was discovered when my job went *poof*.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:34 PM (GaqMa)

284 Unemployment checks are the fastest way to create jobs. Posted by: RWC I suppose itÂ’s asking too much for them to tie structural changes that will stop discouraging employment, to the unemployment extension.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 12:34 PM (QF8uk)

285 You know who had some fresh, innovative ideas about how to solve unemployment problems? Joe Stalin, that's who.

Posted by: Rolling Stone Editorial Board at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (AiYlm)

286 "Look for an ever smaller birthrate, too, as people can't afford to start a family until they are 34 and then only have 1 kid. At least that will be true of the native population."

Er, here in Commiefornia, the illegal girls are cranking out the babies by the second year of high school, and they're having four or five by the time they're in their 20s. Reconquista! Gracias, gringos!

There's a part of the SF East Bay that I occasionally drive through. The government building there where the welfare benefits are handed out sits on an intersection of a major thoroughfare. The office is heralded by a big sign reading "CENTRO DEL SERVICIOS", in that one language only. And there's always a procession of Hispanic teenage girls with strollers waiting to make their way across the street to get at the servicios.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (gqT4g)

287 We now have vastly higher structural unemployment than before. And it's likely permanent.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 06, 2014 04:25 PM (ZPrif)



Pretty much, and I had a "friend" argue with me that this was why we needed to INCREASE minimum wage. Because people who were lucky enough to find jobs should be able to live well off their wages. In progtard land, if it weren't for the govt. no one would get a job. They have seriously convinced millions of idiots that if you don't have a great job you shouldn't be working at all.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (WdbF7)

288 Some more on Mel Watt. http://tinyurl.com/llzgl7c

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (0FSuD)

289

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 04:34 PM (GaqMa)

 

Don't get me entirely wrong.  Owning  definitely has its positive intangibles that I love but financially,  its probably not worth it unless you  plan to be there long term.    In the past,  homes appreciated so fast that you could sell and buy up fairly quickly.   Not so much anymore. 

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (m2CN7)

290 I'm not a fucking rocket surgeon like Larry Summers(' Eve) Econodouche but does anyone else notice he does not give fifteen seconds thought to Obama's EPA horsefuckery interfering with the usual American recovery cycle you know the one that has worked since our initial goddamned colonial settlement?

1)exploit natural resources

2) Citizens husband national capital and take a hard look at what the US can excel at that the world needs

3) Maximize investment of capital to needed tasks for the world economy putting less successful at exploitation or investment citizens to work on tasks ancillary to new task

4) meet perceived needs of new market to fruition and allow the invisible hand to work

5) recession as inefficient businesses fold or the public's need is met to statisfaction

6) go to 1

The thing is the Feds are attempting to regulate both ends of the cycle and FAR TOO FEW so-called "Republicans" are making the argument that regulatory interference needs curbed.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (TE35l)

291 287 Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 04:36 PM (WdbF7)

Hey calm down the govt will raise welfare to meet the inflationary pressure on prices due to "minimum" wage increases and by golly we'll just print more ever increasingly unbacked money to "pay for it"...

Liberals like Matt "Dumb Fuck non Economist Economics Editor" Yglesias do not even acknowledge that wealth creation, wage, and "money" are unrelated things or that welfare has any inflationary impact at all on price structure.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (TE35l)

292 Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (m2CN7) Define long term? Our plan was 10 years or so. I'm hoping that's long term enough. We might stretch it to 15, but while this house has lots of bedrooms and space, it really doesn't have the bathroom makeup for raising teenagers (although someone did it at some point here.) Part of the reason we bought this big was to skip the starter home. Lots of our friends and family bought, hung out for 3-5 years then moved again (often decamping to the burbs). We started as such (but prices allowed that.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (GaqMa)

293 What this country urgently needs is more selfies of Kim K's gimantic ass. Whenever I log out from my Yahoo eamil account, more often than not I'll see an blip on the list of articles mentioning something about the Kardashians. Anyone for whom the happenings of any of the Kardashian clan can be considered newsworthy needs a serious ass-kicking.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (G5cc0)

294

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 04:45 PM (GaqMa)

 

I guess long term means no intention of moving.  Eventually your mortgage will contribute more to your principal than interest  and you will start to see real equity.  Also,  you will incur some major unexpected home expenses during your time and I would highly suggest you start a repair fund that you contribute to just as you would a college fund.   

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (m2CN7)

295 The problem is with the definition of a recession. Were it not for the safety net being paid for by literally printing money worth nothing and then juggling accounts around with the fed to delay the inevitable collapse, we'd be in a horrific depression. It just doesn't feel that way because of the welfare programs.
And its all coming down some day, soon I fear. This feels exactly like in 2005-6 when people here and elsewhere were looking at the housing market saying "it can't keep up like this, people cannot keep buying homes they can't afford. When will it all come to roost?"
Soon. And its going to be catastrophic.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (zfY+H)

296 226 ace, no one is mentioning Wel Watt, new head of Fanny and Freddy. Watt is a socialist and a racist. He has a BAD chip on his shoulder. He is an affirmative action Yale graduate, which he will be sure to remind you of. Expect to see the return of mandatory lending to minorities as the price of banks doing business. He is there for SIX fucking years. Next to the Fed Chair he will be the most important Financial officer in the country. We are so fucking boned. Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 04:17 PM (0FSuD) Return of mandatory lending to minorities? It never left. The Mrs works in the foreclosure dept of a major bank, and she says they are the ones who weren't being turned down for loans. It's simple for the banks, make $750 million in loans they know will be bad or pay a couple billion to the Feds for not making those loans.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, aka MrCaniac, waiting on an apology on behalf of the KaBoom Kiddes at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (BXLPR)

297 when you see 4-6% interest on savings and the fed not buying their own stash, you'll know the economy is solid. DHYB

Posted by: RIK at January 06, 2014 01:25 PM (Y+gkm)

298 Alan Greenspan is the mother of this economic crisis.

Posted by: SFGoth at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (K0j1Y)

299 144 I went ahead and Googled it.US UNCUT is about no tax cuts. You may have been thinking of NOCIRC, which Rush lampoons from to time.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 06, 2014 01:49 PM (HubSo)

300 There are no group of administrators, bureaucrats, or academics wise enough, knowledgeable enough, or ethical enough to set the core numbers of an economy. I agree completely, that's what market monetarism and NGDP targeting does: limit the ability of planners to fuck up the economy. Today, the government decides inflation is X, therefore monetary policy will be Y. But inflation is not only incredibly difficult to define, it's very subjective depending on which goods and services a given economic actor is purchasing. It's better just to say "okay, the aggregate spending should probably increase 4-5% per year" because that seems to maximize growth and employment.

Posted by: TallDave at January 06, 2014 02:00 PM (lNW+B)

301 The Fed doesn't need to do QE, indeed it's probably a terrible idea.

Posted by: TallDave
**********************

I don't suppose that it has occurred to any of those Obama geniuses that QE at $85-billion per month for a year is equivalent to 6% of the US economy. These economic doldrums make more sense if you realize that 4% growth with QE is actually a real decline of 2%.

Growing the economy with funny money is not going to end well.

Posted by: Can't find a hedge to hide behind at January 06, 2014 08:19 PM (ab+jQ)

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