January 19, 2014

Moron Movie Review: Lone Survivor
— andy

"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it." ~ Robert E. Lee

LoneSurvivor.jpg

The film in one word: Intense

My Moron recommendation: 5 Ewoks. It's a must-see!

But first some background, in order to properly frame the review.

I first met Marcus Luttrell in 2008. We brought him up to Boston for a fundraiser for my son's autism school, which had just moved to a much larger location. Funds were critical to getting it up and running, with the big auction item at the event being naming rights to the playground that was on the drawing board.

I didn't really think the tie-in would work that well - it's Boston not Beaumont, and what does a Navy SEAL's experience have to do with working with kids with autism anyway? - but, hey, the book was a best-seller at the time and the school was founded by a Navy brat, so what the hell?

The house was packed to listen to Marcus speak, and speak he did, relaying the tale of the lone survivor. Hearing him tell the story in person, at points pantomiming an imaginary M4 in his hands as he's describing the firefight, made a lasting impression on everyone in the room including my little brother, now a 2nd Lieutenant in the Army, who I brought up from Georgia to meet Marcus.

Before the program started we talked a little about the movie, which was just at the concept stage at that point. Marcus was concerned that any movie wouldn't do justice to his teammates and the story. It took nearly 6 years from then, and the film went through fits and starts of casting and funding, but the ultimate outcome couldn't have been a better tribute to the memories of his fallen brothers.

***SPOILERS BELOW***

The Movie

One of the complaints about the film you'll see from Professional Movie Critics is the shallowness of character development. And that’s a fair criticism if you view the film through the eyes of a naïve audience that knows nothing about the story and also can't get quickly up to speed.

But in a film divided neatly into three parts: pre-firefight, firefight, rescue, thereÂ’s only so much time to get to know the characters, and I think they did a good job with it in broad strokes. Before Spartan 01 boards the helicopters bound for Kunar, you get the idea that theyÂ’re highly motivated and trained (opening footage of SEAL training), have people they love back home and want to return to (instant messaging, etc.) and are a tight-knit group (induction of new team member SO2 Shane Patton).

Character status: DEVELOPED

My only critique in this area is that, other than LCDR Erik Kristensen and SO2 Patton, we never really meet the rest of the SEALs like SO2 James Suh and others who died in the helicopter crash and are mentioned in the book. Limitations of time and all, but I wish theyÂ’d been able to put the spotlight on everyone (including the ArmyÂ’s 160th SOAR helicopter crew), however briefly.

Because the movie focuses so much on the firefight, the pacing is rushed to get there. But, man, when you get there Â…

The Chicago Tribune’s John Kass did a great job of talking about “realism” in war movies (well, actually his father did):

Like many of you, I'd heard the buzz about "Lone Survivor," with some early reviews talking about the realism, although how the hell would they know? Realism in a war movie? My father had an answer when we'd ask him to watch a war movie on TV.

"Put on Bob Hope," he'd say, mentioning a comedian of another age.

My father spent almost a decade fighting, first in World War II, in the Albanian mountains in the snow against the Italians and the Germans. He survived the Nazi occupation when the Germans forced starvation of Athens. Then came more fighting in the terrible civil war against the communist guerrillas in Greece.

So after that, he wasn't remotely interested in war movies. If you told him a war movie was supposed to be "realistic," he'd just look at you, or look through you. Once he said that if a war movie was truly realistic, then you could smell it. And it doesn't smell like popcorn.

Well said. I'll remember that.

Within the limitations of the medium, though, you can attempt to envision what it would be like to be in the position of Spartan 01 as theyÂ’re relentlessly attacked by a force anywhere from 5x to 50x their strength on their home turf (another of the silliest controversies about the book and movie Â… you donÂ’t stop to take roll when the bullets are flying).

Until Lone Survivor, the Normandy invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan stood alone as the best justice the medium can do to conveying actual combat. It now at least has company, and IÂ’ll leave it up to you to argue about which is better.

And if I made my living with words instead of numbers, IÂ’d have written that Kass column, because he sums up well my thoughts on the reasons people must see this movie. Read the whole thing.

The film isnÂ’t a documentary, and thereÂ’s a lot of dramatic license employed at both the beginning and the end. If you know the book, these things will jump out at you, but you shouldnÂ’t let them take you out of the film.

Fortunately, the firefight scene is pretty true to the book, although itÂ’s a little dramatized too. And itÂ’s hard to forget that itÂ’s condensed in time, because it feels like it goes on forever. Which is part of the point.

The Tapper Interview

I guess this review wouldnÂ’t be complete without a review of the review that had everyone buzzing last week.

I think Jake TapperÂ’s one of the fairest guys youÂ’ll find in the media (yes, I'm aware phrasing it that way could be seen as damning him with faint praise) and I donÂ’t believe he meant any insult by his comments to Marcus at all. They just point out a difference in the way people view the world, and instead of screaming about it, we should find it instructive.

Most of the attention was focused on Tapper’s use of the word “senseless” to describe the deaths of the SEALs and SOAR guys, but I want to focus on the word that got Marcus’ back up against the wall in the first place: “Hopeless”

TAPPER: One of the emotions I felt while watching the film is, first of all, just the hopelessness of the situation, how horrific it was and also just all that loss of life of these brave American men. And I was torn about the message of the film in the same way that I think I am about the war in Afghanistan itself. I don't want any more senseless American death and at the same time I know that there are dead people there and good people who need help. Was that intentional?

LUTTRELL: Well, I don't know what part of the film you were watching, but hopelessness really ever came into it. Where did you see that? We never felt like we were hopelessly lost or anything like that. We never gave up. We never felt like we were losing unless we were actually dead. That never came across in the battle and while we were fighting on the mountain and it was just us against them.

At the fundraiser I mentioned above, Marcus signed a copy of the book and wrote the following message to my son:

The world is yours, my friend. Never quit and never give up!

The situation Tapper described as “hopeless” … long odds against you, no clear path to victory in sight, little help coming from outside and the people to your left and right who love you being all you can truly depend on … applies to my son’s severe autism as well as to Spartan 01. As it turned out, there was a tie-in after all.

In the face of adversity, you can lie down and quit or you can stand and fight. The choice you make says a lot about who you are.

The film is a tribute to men who stood and fought. I don't know what movie Jake Tapper was watching either.

And as to "senseless" deaths, I hope we haven't reached the point where we regard every US soldier lost in a battle won as dying a good and noble death while regarding those lost in losing efforts as dying senselessly.

Tapper's exit to the interview noted defects in the mission plan and errors made on the parts of many people involved in Operation Red Wings that contributed to the bad outcome. I wonder how he'd have characterized Operation Overlord if cock-ups like the DD Tanks' performance at Omaha Beach, the scattered drops of Airborne units and failure to anticipate how badly the bocage would bog down our tanks had resulted in the invasion being repelled. I've never heard the first D-Day death referred to as being "senseless".

The nobility of our troops' efforts are not judged by whether they won or lost this battle or that. And all who died ... who gave the last full measure of devotion, as Lincoln said ... deserve our respect and gratitude.

Final Thoughts

John Kass summed up his thoughts as follows:

Whether it wins any film prizes is irrelevant. Such honors are about cliques and politics. At the awards ceremony, the stars stand on the red carpet and talk about what they're wearing, how they're feeling. They hold up that shiny golden statue. They chatter. They're validated. Celebrity writers prattle on about the after-parties.

But this movie is something apart from all that chatter. This one has quality.

I suppose you can wait to see it at home when it comes out on cable. You can tell yourself that your big screen and sound system can faithfully reproduce the theater experience. But it can't reproduce this:

At the end, with the photos of the fallen up there, you turn. Just then some other theater patron looks up and catches your eye. You notice each other, strangers in the movie-house darkness, and there is a mutual recognition of a debt.

We owe them.

The audience at the showing I saw sat absolutely silent through the credits, which show photos and video of the SEALs and SOAR guys who died in Operation Red Wings.

And then we applauded.

Related

Books: Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10,
Seal of Honor: Operation Red Wings and the Life of Lt. Michael P. Murphy, USN

Movie: Murph: The Protector

Charities: Lone Survivor Foundation, The Boot Campaign

And if you want to donate to the best autism program in the country ... the one with a playground named "Spartan Playground" by Marcus Luttrell ... Nashoba Learning Group.

Posted by: andy at 05:34 AM | Comments (96)
Post contains 1852 words, total size 12 kb.

1 Great review, Andy. Looking forward to seeing the movie.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 19, 2014 05:40 AM (g1DWB)

2 I saw it yesterday.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at January 19, 2014 05:41 AM (5fSr7)

3 Met Marcus here in ETEX several years ago. My doctor was at the premier of the movie and said the experience was overwhelming. I believe he meant being in the same room as a bunch of SEALS was  overwhelming. Maybe Mrs. E will take me to see the movie for my birthday?

Posted by: Erowmero at January 19, 2014 05:41 AM (OONaw)

4 Looking forward to seeing it. Will be tough, as I'm a former Team guy, albeit a generation older. And the doomed rescue effort was from my old team. But I need to see it, to support the rare effort that highlights the good in America.

Posted by: Mango at January 19, 2014 05:45 AM (G8PP/)

5 Senseless deaths?  How about when we abandoned Vietnam after > 50,000 deaths.  The Democrats did that.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 19, 2014 05:47 AM (T2V/1)

6 I made an off hand remark to my extended family about having trouble reading the book ("Lone Survivor"). 'Never heard of it', they said.


Posted by: Nathan Lendsmun at January 19, 2014 05:50 AM (hCQp8)

7 Andy: Good read, your post. Moving personal tie-in. Much appreciated review.

Posted by: webworker at January 19, 2014 05:52 AM (AiZkN)

8 "Until Lone Survivor, the Normandy invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan stood alone as the best justice the medium can do to conveying actual combat."

Never watched "We Were Soldiers"?

Posted by: lowandslow at January 19, 2014 05:52 AM (IV4od)

9 it is a movie well worth seeing

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 39 days until spring training at January 19, 2014 05:54 AM (u8GsB)

10 Nice post, I pointed out last weekend the gulf in mental make-up between the civilian and the military mind.  Add in the further gulf between liberal and conservative civilian to it and the chasm expands further.  Tapper simply cannot comprehend how Luttrell sees reality, not offered as a rebuke to Tapper or an excuse simply fact.

If you want to be pissed at Tapper focus in on his refusal to highlight that Obama has 1000 more KIAs and double the WIAs that Bush had in Afghanistan....

that is media wide and pure unadulterated bias.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 05:56 AM (TE35l)

11 I got the book for Christmas the year it came out. I sat down on Christmas day and read the whole thing. I did actually throw it down several times because it was so emotional.

Posted by: traye at January 19, 2014 05:57 AM (kRVmV)

12 Andy....can you add an "End Spoilers" line in the post?

Obviously I know how it ends, but I am looking forward to seeing the movie and would prefer not knowing any details.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 05:59 AM (QFxY5)

13 I am definetly go to see this one. it sounds really intense. Regarding the movie we were soldiers I cringe and close my eyes every time the scene with the burned soldier getting lifted comes on. Thought I was going to puke when I saw that in the theater

Posted by: Cicero Skip at January 19, 2014 06:02 AM (cIgCr)

14 Saw it last night. Oh man, intense is the exactly right word. See it in the theater.

Posted by: Grandmalcaesar at January 19, 2014 06:03 AM (6PM2S)

15 I'm afraid to read the post because I haven't yet seen the movie. Maybe you could put the spoilers in invisotext?

Posted by: rickl at January 19, 2014 06:04 AM (sdi6R)

16 A (female) friend posted this article on FB this week: Save Your Relationship: Ask The Right Questions (http://momastery.com/blog/2014/01/16/save-relationships-ask-right-questions/) and a bunch of her (female) friends were all "yes!" and I was all "men are different!" We don't show affection or love by asking when did you feel loved today. We show affection by asking "when you were at the beach today to get all that sand in your vagaina?" and by showing up at 6 AM on a rainy Saturday morning to help with a chore. It occurred to me then that War movies are really love stories for men: they are about men giving everything for each other and refusing to give anything less for those they love. We don't want ask each other better questions, we want to do and be better for each other.

Posted by: major major major major at January 19, 2014 06:05 AM (fRYRo)

17 Morons, The war in Astan is both hopeless and senseless. Its unwinnable and we need to withdrawal. Its unwinnable with Bush era ROE and its even more unwinnable with Kenyan ROE! We fulfilled our primary mission to punish the Taliban post 911 but this nation of goatfuckers does not deserve the death of one American much less thousands fulfilling this pointless mission. Withdrawal, patrol with drones and learn the lesson the Soviets did.

Posted by: Letsgetreal at January 19, 2014 06:08 AM (mzD0X)

18 I guess by the Left's standards, the 12,653 casualties suffered by the Union at Fredricksburg in 1862 were "senseless", I guess........

Posted by: MtTB at January 19, 2014 06:09 AM (xehjI)

19 We had Marcus Luttrell come and speak at our Tea Party 4th of July celebration in 2009 - he was on the speaking circuit then, and I was on the committee, so I did meet him briefly, and was at the 'backstage' of the events. I felt terribly sorry for him, because although he gave a good presentation, and was perfectly amiable to everyone, it was obvious to me that every time someone called him a hero that it hurt. He radiated pain - and I genuinely wished that we hadn't asked him to speak. It was very plain that he would have given anything in the world to be a regular SEAL again, with his buddies around him, still doing his job without a whisper of celebrity. I was glad to hear a couple of months ago that he had married, and he and his wife had a child.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at January 19, 2014 06:10 AM (Asjr7)

20 >> Andy....can you add an "End Spoilers" line in the post? Scroll down to "The Tapper Interview". There are no spoilers from that point forward.

Posted by: Andy at January 19, 2014 06:10 AM (vGQV1)

21 Good, no. Great flick. Now I wanna see Into The Fire come out. That has the makings to be truly epic.

Posted by: Dick (@DicksTrash) at January 19, 2014 06:11 AM (GrtrJ)

22 Posted by: Andy at January 19, 2014 10:10 AM (vGQV1)

Thanks.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 06:13 AM (QFxY5)

23 Haven't seen the movie or read the book yet.  But I will for both.  I try to see any decent military movie because they almost invariably highlight the "band of brothers" characteristic of the military.  That's the best of guys. 

The RightWingWife (and the RightWingDaughter) both tweak me (that's "tweak", not "twerk") because military films (and military funerals) have just about the only scenes that consistently make me tear up.

Posted by: RightWingProf at January 19, 2014 06:15 AM (RtR5I)

24 I was so pissed off after reading some of the trash about this movie the other day I bought both of his books. Looking forward to seeing the movie soon.

Posted by: Adam at January 19, 2014 06:16 AM (Aif/5)

25 Andy,

Your comments about the Tapper interview reminded me of the famous quotation from Patton:

"It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.”

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 06:19 AM (QFxY5)

26 One thing I thought concerning the battle scenes, was that unlike Saving Private Ryan, it showed that you can get shot - again and again - and survive.  And even keep fighting. Granted these are exceptional warriors, who have had that never quit attitude drilled into them, but it applies to anyone in a life and death situation.

Posted by: TRO at January 19, 2014 06:19 AM (jHEiO)

27 "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 10:19 AM (QFxY5) Speaking of Patton, what's the chance of Wahlberg pulling a George C Scott, winning an Oscar and telling them to stick it?

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 19, 2014 06:21 AM (XIxXP)

28 27 One thing I thought concerning the battle scenes, was that unlike Saving Private Ryan, it showed that you can get shot - again and again - and survive. And even keep fighting. Posted by: TRO at January 19, 2014 10:19 AM (jHEiO) Keep in mind, getting shot exerts the same amount of force as getting hit with a sledgehammer. Takes a tremendous amount of discipline to overcome the shock.

Posted by: MikeH at January 19, 2014 06:23 AM (bRL1M)

29 27 TRO at January 19, 2014 10:19 AM (jHEiO)

Average non cerebral or spine severing gunshot wound takes 15 minutes to a day to kill depending on arterial and vein damage.

Avoid hydrostatic shock, and traumatic shock shutdown and you have maybe an hour or two of reduced combat effectiveness.

Life ain't like the movies.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 06:24 AM (TE35l)

30 >> "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” Exactly

Posted by: Andy at January 19, 2014 06:25 AM (vGQV1)

31 I don't understand people who complain about spoilers. The movie is called "LONE SURVIVOR" and the star is Marky Mark. Is there any question about what happens?

Posted by: major major major major at January 19, 2014 06:26 AM (fRYRo)

32 CBD, I love it when folks quote Patton. He was my ww2 veteran father's favorite and thus the reason I named my boy after the general.

Posted by: traye at January 19, 2014 06:26 AM (kRVmV)

33 Posted by: major major major major at January 19, 2014 10:26 AM (fRYRo)

Of course not....but there may be details about the movie that some would prefer not to know beforehand.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 06:27 AM (QFxY5)

34 29 MikeH at January 19, 2014 10:23 AM (bRL1M)

Battlemind and tunnel  vision help...you focus on the tasks at hand and are told to take an inventory and get back to work as your base mindset.

There's a  lot to  lament about this era's youth in some ways, but there is also a lot to praise.

The kids that get it are among the best, and they are intuitive with the modern equipment in ways that a lot of the peers were not with the late 80s-90s kit I trained with.

If we can turn the culture around some they'll be great kids...life just needs to scuff 'em up enough they learn "special snowflake get up and apply motion to task don't wallow."

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 06:27 AM (TE35l)

35 people.....the movie is called "Lone Survivor" you're worried about "spoilers"? #seriousyouguys

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 39 days until spring training at January 19, 2014 06:29 AM (u8GsB)

36 36 phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 39 days until spring training at January 19, 2014 10:29 AM (u8GsB)

DON'T TELL ME THE END!

#TitanicFans

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 06:31 AM (TE35l)

37 Loved the book, so I'm very relieved that the movie didn't mess it up. Maybe now that we have president "gutsy call" Hollywood can finally acknowledge that our military is not just a bunch of dumb hicks and baby-killers (which the never could under Booooosh!).

I'd love to see a movie made of "House to House" especially with everything that is going on in Fallujah.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 19, 2014 06:31 AM (POpqt)

38 I thought Black Hawk Down was pretty good. You got to see the fecklessness of Slick Willy.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 19, 2014 06:33 AM (XIxXP)

39 38 Loved the book, so I'm very relieved that the movie didn't mess it up. Supposedly ML told them, (para) "if you mess this up, I'll kill you all."

Posted by: traye at January 19, 2014 06:34 AM (kRVmV)

40 I think the critics' reaction to this movie is entirely predictable.
You always know when a conservative movie is effective - the critics freak out, so it's not upsetting at all.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 19, 2014 06:35 AM (POpqt)

41 Oh, I just recalled a SEAL story.  In 1985, I was a brand new 1st Lt in the Air Force about to be sent to Europe.  As a counter-intelligence officer I was selected to attend a Dynamics of International Terrorism course being offered at Hurlburt Field.  First day of the course, held in an auditorium, I find a seat next to a guy in Navy khaki.  Nice guy.  About my age.  About the same build, too - 5'9" or so and thin like me (I actually exercised back then). Can't recall his rank. Nothing remarkable about him save for the Trident on his chest.  Now still being new to the service I sort of knew what a SEAL was but not much else so I remember thinking he didn't look that tough.  Hell I had some martial arts training (TKD - please) and could run 10 miles if a big dog was chasing me.

God, I was a naive fool . . .

Posted by: TRO at January 19, 2014 06:35 AM (jHEiO)

42 Go tell the Spartans Here we lie According to their will Go tell the Spartans

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 19, 2014 06:36 AM (+1T7c)

43 Speaking of Patton, what's the chance of Wahlberg pulling a George C Scott, winning an Oscar and telling them to stick it? --- The enemy will not give our side any honors.

Posted by: whoever at January 19, 2014 06:37 AM (zu9Ee)

44 Supposedly ML told them, (para) "if you mess this up, I'll kill you all." Posted by: traye at January 19, 2014 10:34 AM (kRVmV) Did anyone remember the story of the sensless murder of ML's Therapy dog? That was devistating to him. I guess he disappeared for awhile and scared the crap out of everyone that knew him. The had no idea what he was going to do.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 19, 2014 06:37 AM (XIxXP)

45 The enemy will not give our side any honors. Posted by: whoever at January 19, 2014 10:37 AM (zu9Ee) Yeah, silly me.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 19, 2014 06:38 AM (XIxXP)

46 Loved the book and movie. I cried through most of both. The theater was SILENT at the end.....everyone slowly departed, men/women both crying. We owe them all so much. God Bless America

Posted by: nlynch at January 19, 2014 06:39 AM (gRcOM)

47 I knew LCDR Erik Kristensen before he became a SEAL - he was a Division Officer on the USS Chandler out of Everett, WA in '98-'99.

Good guy.

Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at January 19, 2014 06:39 AM (Nk6GS)

48 >>The enemy will not give our side any honors.

Yeah, but we can with box office revenue. Another reason why it's good to see it in the theater.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 19, 2014 06:39 AM (POpqt)

49 According to a defense department article from 2011, while during world wars I &II approximately 9% of the American population served in Active duty, while the last decade showed less than 1%. According to some studies, there are 7 support soldiers for every 1 combat soldier. The infantry is the foundation of all fighting forces; the airborne is the cornerstone of all special operation forces. Estimates I have seen show that less than 5% of US military are airborne qualified and even a smaller percentage go from airborne school to a combat company (due to officers/woman/west point cadets that take the school for promotion points only) From 1980-1989 an average of 2122 soldiers died each year during training alone. So few Americans can put themselves into the mindset of an American warrior: Go see this movie!

Posted by: sp4x2 at January 19, 2014 06:43 AM (e52PM)

50 Excellent review Andy. Read "Lone Survivor" and sat through two showings of the movie.

Posted by: ExSnipe at January 19, 2014 06:43 AM (LKJt3)

51 I don't support hollywood, I read books. I will probably not see the movie. But the book was great.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at January 19, 2014 06:43 AM (XIxXP)

52 Hollywood and the Media loved Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks and Matt Damon for "Saving Private Ryan". That noblest of assholes, Tom Brokaw, praised Hanks as being such a great guy at the D-Day museum dedication in New Orleans some years ago, They hated Mel Gibson for making "We Were Soldiers Once". Because it went against the narrative of Viet Nam. That was a bad war. We were told so. An older friend who did four tours there as a Marine (part of one tour at Khe Sahn) didn't think quite that way. There will be few awards for this movie, because again, the Media and Hollywood don't approve of this message. That is got made and was loyal to the story is enough. Some of the reviews written already hint at the dark underside of racism in it. And there you go, the most common Left Wing denunciation of the day.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 19, 2014 06:44 AM (+1T7c)

53 It was nominated for two Oscars. Mixing and sound editing I think.

Posted by: Adam at January 19, 2014 06:45 AM (Aif/5)

54 53 Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 19, 2014 10:44 AM (+1T7c)

Had they shifted the date forward to 2009 and had the LP kill the locals the media would cheer...

it is *all* partisan all the time w/the media and Hollywood.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 06:46 AM (TE35l)

55 I served in the infantry in Vietnam (Class of '70) and cannot bring myself to watch ANY war movies.  No movie can HOPE to capture the feelings men have during a war and especially not in a firefight, or when a brother dies in your arms.

Having said that, however, I give Marcus Luttrell major props for saying - on Fox and Friends, that there is no GLORY in war.  There are, frequently, many acts of incredible human bravery but really, no glory.

I am pleased that this movie apparently turned out so well; its been a long time since American Troops have been portrayed as brave and principled.

Posted by: Realwest at January 19, 2014 06:47 AM (30LIS)

56 We Were Soldiers is in my top 5 military movies.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 19, 2014 06:49 AM (T2V/1)

57 It was nominated for two Oscars. Mixing and sound editing I think. --- If we had an American in the oval office he might have invited the cast and crew to the White House.

Posted by: whoever at January 19, 2014 06:49 AM (zu9Ee)

58 56 Realwest at January 19, 2014 10:47 AM (30LIS)

The glory if any is in the  serving itself not in battle.

Battle represents a failure of policy exertion by non-violent means, it may be necessary, may even be welcome, but is seldom in itself a good.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 19, 2014 06:50 AM (TE35l)

59 Compare the critical acclaim "Captain Phillips" rec'd vs "Lone Survivor:"

http://tinyurl.com/k8y9ylg

http://tinyurl.com/klg4g8n

It is stunning. Haven't seen either film, and perhaps "Phillips" is better film making, but I know politics plays a major role in the critical reception of the two.

Posted by: Baldy at January 19, 2014 06:51 AM (2bql3)

60 Posted by: Vic at January 19, 2014 10:49 AM (T2V/1)

Haven't seen it, mostly because Gibson has been a caricature of himself for a long time.

But....I'll take a look.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 06:53 AM (QFxY5)

61 #58 Vic - We Were Soldiers (based on the book "We Were Soldiers Once - and Young") was also a more or less accurate movie portraying our first head-on contact with the Regular Army of North Vietnam in the Ia Drang Valley.

I haven't seen it - for the same reasons I gave in my #56, but it seems to me that when a movie stays as close to the truth  as movie-making can, the better and more accurate the portrayal of war and combat and the better the movie.

Posted by: Realwest at January 19, 2014 06:54 AM (30LIS)

62 61  But....I'll take a look.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 19, 2014 10:53 AM (QFxY5)



He made that movie before he went off the "but you will blow me" deep end.  But I do give him a small benefit of the doubt.  That all came out in the middle of a bitter divorce and I have seen some strange shit happen in those cases.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 19, 2014 06:58 AM (T2V/1)

63 Besides, wife will love it because it has Sam Elliot in it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 19, 2014 07:00 AM (T2V/1)

64 Book threads up

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 19, 2014 07:01 AM (T2V/1)

65 54 It was nominated for two Oscars. Mixing and sound editing I think. Posted by: Adam at January 19, 2014 10:45 AM (Aif/5) Gravity is going to be serious competition in both categories. http://oscar.go.com/nominees

Posted by: rickl at January 19, 2014 07:02 AM (sdi6R)

66 I still don't get all the fuss over "Saving Private Ryan." We'd already seen the famous Normandy beach landing done very well in "Longest Day"--better, in my opinion, because it wasn't tainted with any post-Vietnam anti-militarism. The rest of the movie was like a long episode of "Combat" and didn't really make any sense. (And don't tell me that was the point.)

Posted by: Caliban at January 19, 2014 07:04 AM (2ArJQ)

67 I am not Marcus Luttrell, and I can't know his mind. But I believe he wrote his book and fought for making the movie the right way, was because of his memory of his teamates, that they should not be forgotten. Seals are the best of the best of the best of trained soldier. Sorted out by tolerance to pain and cold, already highly motivated. Incredibly fit, incredibly trained. Writing his book, and making this movie might have been the toughest and most important mission that Marcus Lutrell ever performed. Because it is a memory shared with millions of fat, comfortable Americans that there are men out there that paid the last full measure of devotion that we might be free, that the world might be free of this insane tyranny of Salafist Islam. They probably don't use those words in the movie, but that is what the Taliban is fighting for, beside the fact that Afghan men are mean and enjoy fighting and killing for it's own sake. I don't know what Marcus Lutrell's fate is, in the years to come. And many, many other men who have served and seen things they would rather forget, such as David Bellavia (House to House). There is no glory in war, but there is honor and remembrance of what they fought for, and who they were, and how they died. This movie is important in that it makes us all remember. Years from now, people will pull it out and play it, and remember these SEALS and Marcus Lutrell. Children not yet born will see it and ask why. Lest we forget.... From the closing scene of "Patton": For over a thousand years, Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of a triumph - a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeters and musicians and strange animals from the conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conqueror rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children, robed in white, stood with him in the chariot, or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror, holding a golden crown, and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting......

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 19, 2014 07:04 AM (+1T7c)

68 To those who have seen the movie, would it be appropriate for a 12 year old boy? I read the book and would like to take my son.

Posted by: Timon at January 19, 2014 07:05 AM (kAniV)

69 Hopeless?
Hopeless only happens after you've given up. Until then, the outcome can always be different.
Hopeless only happens when you think you know everything, and cannot see a way out. But you never know everything.
Hopeless? Nah, 'defeatist' is the real word.

Posted by: My Name is Illegible at January 19, 2014 07:06 AM (ab+jQ)

70 My friend Brandon ran Marcus through SEAL sniper course.  Has nothing but good to say about him.

We'll see if I can muster the courage to go see the movie.  I will drop the money, though, for Mikey, Danny, Axe and Shu.

Following winds and steady seas.

Posted by: tangonine at January 19, 2014 07:07 AM (x3YFz)

71 70 Hopeless?
Hopeless only happens after you've given up. Until then, the outcome can always be different.
Hopeless only happens when you think you know everything, and cannot see a way out. But you never know everything.
Hopeless? Nah, 'defeatist' is the real word.

Posted by: My Name is Illegible at January 19, 2014 11:06 AM (ab+jQ)

Never quit.

Posted by: tangonine at January 19, 2014 07:08 AM (x3YFz)

72 I hope Lone Survivor doesn't win any awards from the Hollywood cognoscenti. Their endorsement would just belittle it.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at January 19, 2014 07:12 AM (JQuNB)

73 69 To those who have seen the movie, would it be appropriate for a 12 year old boy? I read the book and would like to take my son. Posted by: Timon at January 19, 2014 11:05 AM (kAniV) I'd say that depends on the 12 year-old boy. The violence is explicit.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at January 19, 2014 07:14 AM (JQuNB)

74 Saw it Thursday night, and the theater was silent afterward.  Much respect from all in attendance.

As it stands right now, I'd say my three favorite war films are Lone Survivor, Black Hawk Down, and Patton.

I thought Saving Private Ryan's opening scene was brilliant, but the rest of the film went downhill from there.  And don't even get me started on the final cowardly scenes with Opham.  Ruined the film for me.


Posted by: Wyatt Earp at January 19, 2014 07:40 AM (cXrvJ)

75

 I did actually throw it down several times because it was so emotional.

Wait till you see the movie. Saw it with my son and he said he felt we saw it from a different perspective than many, having both read the book, seen numerous interviews with Marcus Lutrell, lots of follow up, etc.

 

Hopeless or senseless never entered into the equation for either of us, you just don't get that. But had to wipe my eyes afterwards. The debt to these men and their families approaches infinity, and about all we can do is try to find ways to acknowledge it.

 

Less heavy, I really thought the movie did a good job in such a limited time frame of showing what drives these guys and the incredible cameraderie and love they have for another. Also, when they realized what they were in for in terms of a firefight and started to really prep for that last minute or so before it started, still totally professional-not an iota of anything other than focusing laserlike on doing what they were trained to do, intense doesn't describe it.  

Posted by: RM at January 19, 2014 07:44 AM (fRppw)

76 The coin I have for Mikey:  http://greyttimes.com/?p=679

Posted by: tangonine at January 19, 2014 07:44 AM (x3YFz)

77 69 To those who have seen the movie, would it be appropriate for a 12 year old boy? I read the book and would like to take my son.

The battle scenes were very intense and graphic - similar to the beach scene in Saving Private Ryan, but unlike the beach scene the battle in Lone Survivor is the main part of the movie. And unlike Ryan, we get a chance to know and care about the characters before the battle scenes.  I read the book so I knew what to expect, but still it was hard to watch it played out before my eyes.  It's going to depend on the boy, but it's not the kind of movie you can watch and then go on about your day. It stays with you and you can't watch it without feeling like you owe these men a great debt.

Posted by: NavyMom at January 19, 2014 07:49 AM (GiLYR)

78 One small complaint. Luttrell was suffering from an injury at the end of the firefight and the movie didn't make clear what it was. Something was sticking out of his pant leg and at first I thought it was a compound fracture of the femur. Later, he is shown self treating the injury and it looks like he is pulling a thin piece of shrapnel from his leg. So, I'm left guessing that he took a thin piece of metal from an exploded RPG warhead

Posted by: Callmelennie at January 19, 2014 07:49 AM (Z6Bqu)

79 So, one recommendation for a 12 year old. You might wait until the movie hits a smaller screen. Because the full cinema treatment is pretty intense ... and LOUD! And it's not just the firefight scene. The scene where Lutrell treats his own wound is a little hard to watch. Maybe the best suggestion is for the parent to go see the movie first and then decide. I recall doing that years ago to determine if "Titanic" would be too much for my young daughter

Posted by: Callmelennie at January 19, 2014 07:56 AM (Z6Bqu)

80 Posted by: Wyatt Earp at January 19, 2014 11:40 AM (cXrvJ)

Agree, but I include "We Were Soldiers" as #4.

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 19, 2014 07:59 AM (o3MSL)

81 Greetings: My favorite Platoon Sergeant made an infantryman out of me. One of his pearls had to do with what he called "running gunfights" which were to be avoided as much as possible. The second part of his lesson differentiated between "running gunfights" where you know where your running to and "running gunfights" where there was, as he put it, "no particular place to go". Oh, yeah, he was a major Chuck Berry fan.

Posted by: 11B40 at January 19, 2014 08:15 AM (4ddBY)

82 >> Having said that, however, I give Marcus Luttrell major props for saying - on Fox and Friends, that there is no GLORY in war. There are, frequently, many acts of incredible human bravery but really, no glory. That interview prompted me to include the R. E. Lee quote in the post.

Posted by: Andy at January 19, 2014 08:20 AM (vGQV1)

83 Until Lone Survivor, the Normandy invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan stood alone as the best justice the medium can do to conveying actual combat. It now at least has company, and IÂ’ll leave it up to you to argue about which is better. *** So, in other words, take a box of tissues. My daughter was a teen when I finally worked up the courage to watch Saving Private Ryan and I cried (sobbed) from my very core for 20 minutes straight. My daughter couldn't understand it because she had rarely ever seen me shed a tear. I cried for them and the terror and the agony they endured, and for those who did not endure. If Lone Survivor can have that same impact on audiences, even those not previously familiar with the story, they will never forget it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 19, 2014 08:21 AM (DmNpO)

84 If Lone Survivor can have that same impact on audiences, even those not previously familiar with the story, they will never forget it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 19, 2014 12:21 PM (DmNpO)

I'm currently in discussion on a grunt site about how many packs of tissue I'll need.  Overwhelming majority say 3 boxes, min.

I'm skared.

Posted by: tangonine at January 19, 2014 08:24 AM (x3YFz)

85 I'm currently in discussion on a grunt site about how many packs of tissue I'll need. Overwhelming majority say 3 boxes, min. I'm skared. *** It's for this reason that I may watch it from the safety and security of my own home.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 19, 2014 08:25 AM (DmNpO)

86 timon take your son

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 39 days until spring training at January 19, 2014 08:42 AM (u8GsB)

87 I can't wait to see this movie. And Andy...thank you for the tie in. I would say autism and other conditions like it are a battle. And a war. I do speak from experience. It takes a mindset more than anything.

Posted by: small town girl in wyoming at January 19, 2014 08:52 AM (C8G4S)

88 Great review Andy. I aim to see it this week some time.

Posted by: CDR M at January 19, 2014 08:53 AM (LsJl8)

89 An outlier, and not easy to find '84 Charlie Mopic' Read the reviews. Tough to watch: http://tinyurl.com/lec9om6

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 19, 2014 09:27 AM (aDwsi)

90 my review:

Watched it last night.  Loved it.  Took my 9 year old son t see an R rated movie.  He loved it too.  I didn't really feel like it was an R rated movie either, they didn't flash a bunch of nudity to sell tickets.

Posted by: Chuck Norris at January 19, 2014 09:47 AM (z+4T3)

91 Hubby and I saw this last night. Intense and stressful really does sum up this movie. And normally, while I go to movies to escape, this was one must see even though it was difficult to watch. It was the quietest movie I've ever been to. No one talked, no one rustled popcorn buckets or slurped soda. At the end when the pictures and videos were shown of the guys who died (a lot of pictures with their kids or at weddings), I just silently bawled. The tears were just streaming down my cheeks. It made me appreciate even more the sacrifices these brave men made. It also was so sorrowful knowing that their current CinC is so unworthy of their service. There was a point before the mission when the ROE's were read, and I could only imagine how even more restrictive they are now--which is why so many service members have been killed in the 5 years under Obama than Bush's 8 years.

Posted by: runningrn at January 19, 2014 10:21 AM (qvVvy)

92 Oh, and it absolutely warmed the cockles of my little black bean heart to see this movie in a completely full theatre! I want this film to kick butt at the box office!

Posted by: runningrn at January 19, 2014 10:33 AM (qvVvy)

93 Great review, Andy!

I saw this last week, and it was a quiet theater too. More people than Avengers had when we saw that, so I took that as a good sign.

The only thing said was by a soldier exiting the theater aftewards.

Hoo-ah.

I thought it was quite fitting.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at January 19, 2014 11:28 AM (bzb6V)

94 The unedited version of "The Big Red One" is also an excellent war movie. The assault on the beach on Dday as each man advances feet or inches and dies assembling a launcher is a study in what an ordinary man will drive himself to do in war. I haven't seen Lone Survivior, but will thank you.

Posted by: Palooka at January 19, 2014 01:03 PM (ZVfBT)

95 Thanks Andy, awesome review. Yeah great movie. God bless your son.   Marcus is a great guy. I hope he can handle all the praise. Sometimes truly modest people have a hard time with that. He has a family now, that makes a big difference. I think this was what he needed, to get out some of those demons. Anyway , hopefully alot more people see it, and Hollywood get's it's "head out of it's ass" Always hope. Semper Fi !

Posted by: marine43 at January 20, 2014 05:03 AM (3lhUM)

96

Are there sanctions for commenting this long after a thread is "dead"?

 

Saw movie with old friend, who retired a year ago after 25+ years as a SEAL.  He hadn't read the book, only tangentially knew one or two people in the real story.  But he did mumble simultaneously the frogman's creed (my term) that PO Patton recited before the rest of the unit in that one scene.

 

Briefly:  movie's great for all the reasons given by others.  However, it is a crushing disappointment in terms of the true story, i.e. the story presented by the book.  For those who've read the book (go ye and get it if you haven't), I am guessing two of the most memorable elements of the story are the situation back in Texas while Marcus is MIA, and the amazing situation that developed in the village that saved him.  Both these elements were, to me, among the main points of the book, both presenting very impressive accounts of people beyond the SEALs, who naturally also come off as amazing.  So I was very deflated by the way the real story was altered and Hollywoodized (esp. the ending, which not only was entirely fabricated, but contradicts the far more interesting real story of the village).

 

Oh - and another gripping part of the real story (book) was entirely omitted.  Marcus's struggle to escape the area of the firefight while seriously injured was itself an astounding story in itself - the movie version is compressed and altered to where it hardly stands out.

 

Yes, movies need to sometimes make changes in the storyline for reasons of time and pacing.  But methinks Lone Survivor left about 75% of its impact on the table by simply omitting the Texas and true-village stories, and offering a tiny watered-down scrap of Marcus' crawl for survival.

Posted by: non-purist at January 20, 2014 11:10 AM (afQnV)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
131kb generated in CPU 0.0831, elapsed 0.2566 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.2313 seconds, 224 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.