Ace of Spades HQ

January 06, 2014

Now That It's Safe to Do So, Left Begins Admitting that Obamacare is a "Sneaky Way" to Press for Single Payer
— Ace

The progressive media knew all along where this was going and they said nothing until it was safe to do so. http://t.co/UDFdNZXGWG
— John Sexton (@verumserum) January 6, 2014

@morgenr and @verumserum did the work here that the media refused to do: They documented Obamacare's architects and boosters bragging that Obamacare was a Trojan Horse for single payer.

Obamacare was modified since @verumserum and @morgenr exposed this not-so-secret plan; Joe Liberman, representing insurance capital of the US Connecticut, demanded the public option removed from Obamacare to secure his vote.

The Public Option was the Trojan Horse by which the American insurance industry would be destroyed.

That specific provision was removed from Obamacare 1.0, and the law was patched up with bailing wire and duct tape to create the monstrosity we now know as Obamacare 2.0.

But Obamacare 2.0 is destroying the insurance industry well enough, isn't it?

IÂ’m old enough to remember when it was a sign of utmost wingnuttery to suggest that ObamaCare was but phase one in a government takeover of health care, but three years later, now that the lawÂ’s momentarily out of political danger, weÂ’ve got HHS ordering insurance companies every other week to change their business practices willy nilly and lefty pundits babbling excitedly about how this is all really just a stepping stone to bigger and better statist interventions. (Some liberals will object that the wingnuttery lies in believing that liberals designed the law to fail. Fair enough Â— although ScheiberÂ’s own language is revealing, describing O-Care at one point as Â“a deceptively sneaky wayÂ” to get single-payer and saying of GOP efforts to play up the lawÂ’s problems that Â“Republicans are in some sense playing into the trap Obamacare laid for them.Â”) This, not Â“if you like your plan,Â” is the real Big Lie of O-Care. This is where weÂ’re at weÂ’re six days into full implementation.

There is really no need to speak of this as if it's a conspiracy. Politicians have secret back up plans all the time.

For example: Reagan said that his tax cuts would not increase the deficit. He said that lower tax rates would lead to higher growth, and thus increased tax revenue (and on that he was right) and that this, coupled with lower government spending, would lead to balanced budgets. On this last point -- the bit about lower government spending -- he was wrong.

Now, the net effect was this: We grew the deficit substantially during the Reagan Years. (But we hadn't seen nothin' yet, as Obama would teach us.)

So my point is this: Reagan had a Plan A and Plan B. Plan A he talked about a lot: If Reaganomics worked as he envisioned, and if he managed to shrink government as he hoped, Plan A would be a stable, or even falling, budget deficit.

Here's the Plan B he didn't talk about: If he failed to reduce the deficit, he still wasn't giving up on those lowered tax rates. Plan B was that, should the deficit fail to fall, then he'd keep Reaganomics in place and let the deficit rise.

One doesn't have to posit a "conspiracy theory" on the left, or in Obama's White House, to see a similar Announced Plan A/Hidden Plan B scheme at work. No, they probably did not intend for to create such a huge embarrassment and such an unpopular law.

But they also knew that what they were doing probably would not work.

They hoped for Announced Plan A to work. Just as Reagan hoped Announced Plan A -- lower tax rates, lower deficits -- would come to pass.

But they do have a Hidden Plan B should Announced Plan A not quite work out.

Posted by: Ace at 12:31 PM | Comments (280)
Post contains 662 words, total size 4 kb.

1 First man to walk into a bar.

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:33 PM (m2CN7)

2 These are not the conspiracies you're looking for. Move along. *handwave*

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:34 PM (QupBk)

3 I think Plan A was designed to fail all this time.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at January 06, 2014 12:34 PM (PgNb6)

4 I am not kidding-- a HUGE part of the problem is the LOW INFO voter--is at your ER. They think Health Care is now free!

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (RJMhd)

5 They ain't got no plans... they excel in making up shit as they along...

Posted by: GuyfromNH at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (kbOju)

6 Plan B for everyone ! for FREE !!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (nCSwS)

7 To have a hidden Plan B, you need competence & zero hubris. NOT a flat out disaster.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:35 PM (XCfYI)

8 Obamacare is a "Sneaky Way" to Press for Single Payer Because what's really going to improve things is FULL government control of healthcare. I mean, it's just logical!

Posted by: t-bird at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (FcR7P)

9 But seriously, I don't think that any of the schemers anticipated that it would be quite this obvious a steaming clusterfuck. It's too easy now to say 'If they couldn't run this, how can we trust them to run everything?".

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (QupBk)

10 weÂ’ve got HHS ordering insurance companies every other week to change their business practices willy nilly and lefty pundits babbling excitedly about how this is all really just a stepping stone to bigger and better statist interventions Ah..... I'm so happy! Corporatism IS Fascism..... Thus, Fascism is finally taking over America...

Posted by: Zombie Bennito Mussolini at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (lZBBB)

11 Plans?

*giggle*

Posted by: Preezy B, fresh from his 4:20 update, IYKWIM at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (NXg/k)

12 I've watched a lot of this show. Also, I'm smarter than all of you. Trust me. Always take Door Number 'C'.

Posted by: Joe Biden at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (RzDX3)

13 After single payer we'll get disgruntled payer.

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 06, 2014 12:36 PM (DpEwG)

14 Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President. Plus remember those videos of Obama Voters that thought he was going to pay for their gas!? Yep--they are flooding the zone so to speak.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (RJMhd)

15 Whose birthday? My birthday! 38 today! Love you morons. I have missed you all so much!

Posted by: jmel at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (yRIf+)

16 I don't think any of the geniuses who came up with this thing had the foggiest idea of what they were building or what the implications were. They are just not the bright, folks.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (659DL)

17 Posted by: toby928Â© at January 06, 2014 04:36 PM (QupBk) Has ANYONE been Fired???? Proof positive that this was 'all in the plan'....

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (lZBBB)

18 >>>The progressive media knew all along where this was going and they said nothing until it was safe to do so.<<<

Sooo...

YOU LIED!!!

Posted by: Joe Wilson at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (Oeij3)

19 Sure. Zeroccare is a massive clusterfuck, so of course we can trust them not to fuck up their backup plan. That's gonna be a tough sell now.

Posted by: maddogg at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (xWW96)

20 jmel - Happy Birthday..., kid.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:37 PM (aDwsi)

21
Obamacare is single payer. People with employee plans haven't seen it yet, but they will all get dumped and to afford it most will go to the exchanges and voila, effectively single payer. Sure, the wealthy will be an exception, but 90% will be on the govt plan.

No trojan horse, just like the dude said.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (MaP11)

22 The failure of Obamacare to do anything but destroy the tenability of private health insurance was always Plan A.

Posted by: Beef at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (XERws)

23 LOL

"Hidden Plan B?"

"Glaringly obvious Plan B that will Pin the Suck O Meter and make us long for the good old days before the government destroyed the insurance industry."

Also...if single payer is the goal, what does it benefit the insurance companies to play nicely with Obama? Couldn't they just say the hell with it to all the government demands, since they're going bye bye in the near future any ways?

Posted by: Shibumi at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (25HWz)

24 How do you press for single payer when over half the country isn't engaged yet? They fucked up by extending the employer madate so far out.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (XCfYI)

25 Hell California is sooo stupid? How stupid do you ask? Someone named a restaurant -- "Plan B". I shit you not.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (RJMhd)

26 This is why a Hillary win is so important to Hillary. This is really her baby, and she knows she has a free foot in the door. Phase 2: Hillary Kicks Out The Last Leg

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (IXrOn)

Wait!

They can't make Obama Care work, so they now want to take the whole thing over?

who will believe that?

Posted by: stumpy at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (q+zA9)

28 If single payer comes about, IÂ’ll have to content myself with a warm little fuzzy in the pit of my stomach every time a leftist dies from their care in such a system. And I hope they all do. Slowly.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at January 06, 2014 12:38 PM (93zXY)

29 They plans is to destroy.our country and remake it in their image. The details of the destruction really don't matter.

Posted by: Lauren at January 06, 2014 12:39 PM (hFL/3)

30 It's too easy now to say 'If they couldn't run this, how can we trust them to run everything?". Posted by: toby928Â© at January 06, 2014 04:36 PM (QupBk) THIS. If 404care "worked" for 3 or 4 years, then the greedy insurance companies or conservative saboteurs could be blamed as premiums rose and coverage decreased. Coming out like a monster, even my most die-hard liberal friends have no answer to "if they couldn't make a website, or have everything else set up after 3 years of planning, how could single payer be better?"

Posted by: AMDG at January 06, 2014 12:39 PM (t7OO0)

31 I don't think any of the geniuses who came up with this thing had the foggiest idea of what they were building or what the implications were. They are just not the bright, folks. ------------------ Am, c'mon. I just saw something the other day about 20% of the Obama administration having had private enterprise experience. Top.Men.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:39 PM (aDwsi)

32 But England has awesome healthcare! That's what all my liberal friends tell me. When I tell them about the Liverpool pathway, or the people not even getting basic care in hopsitals (and then dying when they aren't checked on) I'm told I'm a wingnut. And then when I tell them about the rationing boards (let's bring back the God panels!) they say "what you think this will be like the past?" And then the eugenics. They don't listen. Tough shit. The future belongs to those who can either negotiate the bureaucracy or have friends willing to do medical work for them under the table. I guess I should feel good that I have both of those.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:39 PM (GaqMa)

33 Obamacare is single payer. ?! Obamacare is single-middleman.

Posted by: t-bird at January 06, 2014 12:39 PM (FcR7P)

34 But I signed up for it doc. Gimme my free shit!

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (fWAjv)

35 I don't think the country is clamoring for da Beast. She's old, she's ugly, and she has da Zero's dick on her breath.

Posted by: maddogg at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (xWW96)

36 So what do we do? Republicans won't stop it even if we elect them, so what do we do?

Posted by: Dan at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (gR5OX)

37 They plans is to destroy.our country and remake it in their image. The details of the destruction really don't matter. Posted by: Lauren -------------------- For a thinking person, it is hard to argue that.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (aDwsi)

38 Single decider.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (ZshNr)

39 Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President. Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (RJMhd) But to be fair, the VP probably can't name half of the 57 states.

Posted by: The Hobo Hooker, Waitress, Model, Actress, Wears Prada at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (GeVLX)

40 The Public Option was the Trojan Horse by which the American insurance industry would be destroyed. That specific provision was removed from Obamacare 1.0, and the law was patched up with bailing wire and duct tape to create the monstrosity we now know as Obamacare 2.0. But Obamacare 2.0 is destroying the insurance industry well enough, isn't it? My understanding is that the public option was the second step: Step 1. Destroy private insurance. Step 2. Provide public insurance. Both steps were in the ACA. Removing the public option removed step 2, but, as weÂ’ve been saying all along, step 1 remained. With the public option, inertia could have kept Obamacare in play long enough. Without it, they either need to make the case to add it, or we need to make the case to end the ACA. ThereÂ’s not really a middle ground of Â“wait and it solves itselfÂ”.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (QF8uk)

41 Boggles the mind that this wasn't crystal clear to everyone, as it was to many of us.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 12:40 PM (IXrOn)

42 We're on-board and excited.

Posted by: GOP at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (Cs2tJ)

43 34 But I signed up for it doc. Gimme my free shit! Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 04:40 PM (fWAjv) ********* Right there^ you are giving them too much credit. They don't even think they have to sign up for it.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (RJMhd)

44 She's old, she's ugly, and she has da Zero's dick on her breath. Nicely put. I will steal that for future conversations with my tepidly Hillary supporting 'friends'.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (QupBk)

45 Smug bastards. May the fleas of a thousand camels come a callin'.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (BAS5M)

46 1. 2600 page piece of legislation governing the most complex sector of the economy. 2. Magic. 3. Everything works.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at January 06, 2014 12:41 PM (659DL)

47 They plans is to destroy.our country and remake it in their image. The details of the destruction really don't matter. No, but the details of rebuilding does. And they don't have a clue.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (XCfYI)

48 Hell, even I can't name me 50% of the time.

Anybody seen my crayons?

Posted by: Diamond Joe Biden at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (AiYlm)

49 Single Payer...bringing the efficiency of the post office and the bed side manner of the IRS to your healthcare!

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (P3U0f)

50 39 Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President. Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (RJMhd) But to be fair, the VP probably can't name half of the 57 states. Posted by: The Hobo Hooker, Waitress, Model, Actress, Wears Prada at January 06, 2014 04:40 PM (GeVLX) ********* Damn it. LOL! It's the Law of Reciprocity from Hell.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (RJMhd)

51 Posted by: Hawkins1701 at January 06, 2014 04:38 PM (93zXY) Fuck that noise, if it comes to that, I plan on actively turning the system against them. I won't just wait for the system to screw them over, I'll actively work to make it so.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (GaqMa)

52 **lights up cigar**

I love it when a plan comes together.

//Barack ~~Hussein~~ "Hannibal" Obama

Posted by: The B-Team at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (Oeij3)

53 They don't even think they have to sign up for it. Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:41 PM (RJMhd) Was riffing on the girl in VA from last week.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (fWAjv)

54 Please please please keep pushing Single Payer before the election, Dems. Your base will love you for it, I promise.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (SY2Kh)

55 Single destroyer healthcare.

Posted by: Beef at January 06, 2014 12:42 PM (XERws)

56 I'm all for single-payer, as long as it's applied to the legal profession. Our "leaders" only understand economics when it's applied to them.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (xSegX)

57 Reaganomics was as much Tip Oneal as RWR. Taxes were raised (SSN and Medicare). Money was spent. goverment agencies grew. My opinion is that RWR did as much as could be reasonalbly expected given the congress of the time. HW and W not so much. WJC was just more of the same Bush policies. 20 years of policies that paved the road to BO.

Posted by: huggy at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (3AXH9)

58 The future belongs to those who can either negotiate the bureaucracy or have friends willing to do medical work for them under the table. I guess I should feel good that I have both of those.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 04:39 PM (GaqMa)

This.

Posted by: kathysaysso at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (6H6o8)

59 "There is really no need to speak of this as if it's a conspiracy. Politicians have secret back up plans all the time." Sure, Rational explanation. Just as long as we aren't talking about Obama's birth certificate or other documentation. If that is the topic then it can ONLY BE EXPLAINED BY A CONSPIRACY, because that's the easiest way people can be told to shut up about it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (bb5+k)

Sooo,

about those re-education camps in Northern Nevada.

Can I get at least the top bunk? dibbs!

Hi Steve at the NSA, how is the wife and kids?

Posted by: stumpy at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (q+zA9)

61 Anybody seen my crayons? Posted by: Diamond Joe Biden at January 06, 2014 04:42 PM (AiYlm) Check your nose again Joey.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:43 PM (fWAjv)

62 51 Fuck that noise, if it comes to that, I plan on actively turning the system against them. I won't just wait for the system to screw them over, I'll actively work to make it so. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 04:42 PM (GaqMa) Word.

Posted by: Hawkins1701 at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (93zXY)

63 No, they probably did not intend for to create such a huge embarrassment and such an unpopular law. But they also knew that what they were doing probably would not work. There's no doubt in my mind that they thought the rollout would be smooth, and this was the first step. It would then be just a matter of time to get the majority on Medicaid. This would tilt the balance to single payer. Then they would cut the tethers...

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (IXrOn)

I really don't get the comparison to Reaganomics.

The problem with the second part for Reagan is that in the political battle for cutting government, he lost.

Obamacare hasn't lost anything. In spite of a landslide election to toss out the party that created it, it's still here, and it won't go anywhere. Reality has created some problems for them, but the other party certainly hasn't.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (TOk1P)

65 53 They don't even think they have to sign up for it. Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:41 PM (RJMhd) Was riffing on the girl in VA from last week. Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 04:42 PM (fWAjv) ********* I've been in the California ERs this month.... she's everywhere!! Holy gawd--I'm off to go raid my liquor cabinet.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (RJMhd)

66
The prices and deductibles will drive almost everybody to the exchanges eventually.

And its not going away, even if the repubs win every senate race.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (MaP11)

67 Reagan never Â— that is *never* Â— said tax cuts would not increase the deficit. He, and all his campaign and documents and plans and projections and budgets, said explicitly that the tax cuts would increase the deficit and would reduce revenues. Martin Anderson covers this ground completely in his "Revolution: The Reagan Legacy," pp. 151-157. (Available at Google Books.)

Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 12:44 PM (JRLlM)

68 " No, but the details of rebuilding does. And they don't have a clue. Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 04:42 PM (XCfYI)" Yep. To quote the sex pistols "don't know what I want but I know how to get it..."

Posted by: Lauren at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (hFL/3)

69
It is completely obvious.

They all like it, they put this sparkly weird sheen on the true crusty shitbag left from the 60s, who all want full-on Communism.

It's sickening.

But will the GOP help or play along, nicely?

Play along.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Commissar at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (HQml1)

Said it from the beginning of the official implementation. It confirmed that it was a myth that Obamacare was crafted so we could insure those poor involuntarily uninsured.

Since the implementation, almost all discussion and debate has been about people who already had insurance or were voluntarily uninsured ( young people).

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (m2CN7)

71 It's not a conspiracy theory ace and single payer is not plan B, it was phase two of plan A.

The goal, was always single payer they were not shy about admitting it amongst themselves they counted on the American people being too retarded to look past the willful media collusion on refusing to report on the incidents where Obamacare gurus admitted "amongst their own" what we on the right who paid attention knew all along.

The media is the enemy that the grassroots should be focused on "controlling/destroying" because the media is nothing other than the LITERALpartners of the Democrat party and as such should be hurt until they unlearn their behavior.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (TE35l)

72 If single payer comes about, IÂ’ll have to content myself with a warm little fuzzy in the pit of my stomach every time a leftist dies from their care in such a system.
***
Joe Average liberal will suffer just like we will...but the government bureaucrats and those connected to the Democrat power base will not.

Remember in the Soviet Union, for example, everyone was "equal" more or less in pay and the like...but if you were connected to the party there were actual products to buy with your income...

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (P3U0f)

73 Single Payer will be better! It says so right there in the 3rd sentence!

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at January 06, 2014 12:45 PM (3ZtZW)

74 It would then be just a matter of time to get the majority on Medicaid. This would tilt the balance to single payer. Then they would cut the tethers... Pro tip: Onboard first, THEN cut the tethers. NOT the other way around.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:46 PM (XCfYI)

75 Sven Johnson is right!

Posted by: garrett johnson at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (RzDX3)

Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 04:44 PM (JRLlM)

They call that 'starving the beast' can you dig that?

Posted by: stumpy at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (q+zA9)

77 Posted by: kathysaysso at January 06, 2014 04:43 PM (6H6o Wife and I watched Dateline last night which was a big exposÃ© on NYCHA. She noticed that the only way people were able to get repairs done was to raise a big media stink and threaten them with legal action (but mostly the former). I told her "this is the future of healthcare. Get used to it."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (GaqMa)

78 Boggles the mind that this wasn't crystal clear to everyone, as it was to many of us. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 04:40 PM (IXrOn) I feel the same way about a dozen other issues.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (bb5+k)

79 "But they do have a Hidden Plan B should Announced Plan A not quite work out."

This is of course true of other aspects of the Obama agenda.

Take foreign policy. Announced Plan A is for Iran to meekly give up its nuclear program and provide a triumph for having Smart Literate Liberals running U.S. diplomacy, instead of Arrogant Drugstore Cowboys ignorantly ruining everything.

So what happens if Announced Plan A doesn't work? Then Hidden Plan B is that Iran goes nuclear, which is a huge setback for America in terms of being able to exert any regional influence in the Middle East, and Valerie Jarrett throws a lavish party to celebrate.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (gqT4g)

80 I'm sure that this clever conspiracy will work out just as well as all other aspects of the Obama presidency.

Any insurance company that can't outwit whatever plans SCOAMF's clownshow has laid out, probably deserves to go out of biz anyhow.

Posted by: Stu-22 at January 06, 2014 12:47 PM (AiYlm)

81 I can't wait for Hillary to get into full campaign mode. The Clintons made a career out of destroying people and when it comes to putting distance between her and Barry, Barry's toast.

I'm almost giddy with anticipation.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:48 PM (BZAd3)

82 SOON

Posted by: Liverpool Care Pathway at January 06, 2014 12:49 PM (XvHmy)

83 I won't just wait for the system to screw them over, I'll actively work to make it so. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 06, 2014 04:42 PM (GaqMa) We all should engage in this behavior at every opportunity. "Irish Democracy" is what we have left to work with at this point. I say we make the most of it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:49 PM (bb5+k)

>>>First man to walk into a bar.

"Adam, how ya doin'? The usual?" said the Snake

Posted by: Bigby's Kung Fu Grip at January 06, 2014 12:49 PM (3ZtZW)

It's not just Ocare or American medical insurance or American medicine they want to dismantle. It's the whole "American" ideal.

Unfortunately, they've been very successful. It's one of the reasons why I don't call Baraka dumb. He's been carrying out his agenda of "fundementally transforming America" like a boss.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 12:50 PM (6xoO1)

86 56 I'm all for single-payer, as long as it's applied to the legal profession. Our "leaders" only understand economics when it's applied to them. Posted by: AmishDude at January 06, 2014 04:43 PM (xSegX) I've been saying for a long time that the constitution DOES guarantee equal application of the law, so socializing the lawyers has always been one of my arguments.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:50 PM (bb5+k)

87 If I wanted to destroy a country...

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:50 PM (BZAd3)

88 Single payer; for people who think Obamacare is not fcuked enough already.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 12:51 PM (XUKZU)

89 But, if you like your dysfunctional Soetorocare, you can keep your dysfunctional Soetorocare. Right? You mean we are going to get jacked around on again on this??

Posted by: Mole6 at January 06, 2014 12:51 PM (m0le6)

90 The prices and deductibles will drive almost everybody to the exchanges eventually.
***
And its not going away, even if the repubs win every senate race.

The Republicans, even merely holding the house, could get rid of Obamacare pretty much any time they want...if they want to. But as we've seen...they don't.

Unfortunately that is likely to be true whatever the results of election 2014 are as well.

What do you call it when you have a system of government that only, really, allows two parties and both of those parties agree on 90% of the issues of the day?

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:51 PM (P3U0f)

91 Controlled Chaos

Posted by: Regular Guy at January 06, 2014 12:51 PM (N3Al8)

92 OT - but was Rolling Stone's (intellectual powerhouse that it is) article 'Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For.' linked here? Seems like at least one Occupy Up Twinkles got a job.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:52 PM (fWAjv)

93 Yeah well we should tell th em we have a plan B also: It involves a wall and bullets

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 12:53 PM (t3UFN)

94 Unfortunately, they've been very successful. It's one of the reasons why I don't call Baraka dumb. He's been carrying out his agenda of "fundementally transforming America" like a boss.
***
IMO, Obama is the symptom, not the cause.

As others have pointed out the State Media is the primary cause of the cultural shifts we have seen over the last couple of decades.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:53 PM (P3U0f)

95 OT - but was Rolling Stone's (intellectual powerhouse that it is) article 'Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For.' linked here? Seems like at least one Occupy Up Twinkles got a job.
-
Yes. Such fine writing deserves a venue.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 12:53 PM (XUKZU)

96 was Rolling Stone's (intellectual powerhouse that it is) article 'Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For.' linked here? It was, and it still is, in the sidebar. (Search on Rolling for the Greatest Economics Article Ever Written.)

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (QF8uk)

97 Oh and it was not so sneaky, anyone and everyone with half a brain and any experience in the health field knew EXACTLY where this train wreck was heading!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (t3UFN)

98 The media is the enemy that the grassroots should be focused on "controlling/destroying" because the media is nothing other than the LITERALpartners of the Democrat party and as such should be hurt until they unlearn their behavior. Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 04:45 PM (TE35l) Amen. One of our most important goals ought to be tearing down their media Air-force while creating one of our own.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (bb5+k)

99 Thanks

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 12:54 PM (fWAjv)

100 The established ruling class in this country, the entire spectrum, wants single payer. I would open up the entire one sixth of the economy to pilferage, the same way social security, medicare and the highway fund allowed them to spend more than a hundred trillion off the books.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 06, 2014 12:55 PM (BZAd3)

101 Reagan never Â— that is *never* Â— said tax cuts would not increase the deficit. He, and all his campaign and documents and plans and projections and budgets, said explicitly that the tax cuts would increase the deficit and would reduce revenues. Martin Anderson covers this ground completely in his "Revolution: The Reagan Legacy," pp. 151-157. (Available at Google Books.)

Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 04:44 PM (JRLlM)

---------------------------------------------------

I smell troll meat.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 12:55 PM (6xoO1)

102 OT - but was Rolling Stone's (intellectual powerhouse that it is) article 'Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For.' linked here? Seems like at least one Occupy Up Twinkles got a job.
***
Step 1: Take everyone who work's stuff.

Step 2: Give it to everyone who doesn't work.

Step 3: Wonder why no one wants to make stuff anymore

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:55 PM (P3U0f)

103 Screw this noise. I'm going back to home remedies , prayer and whiskey but mostly whiskey.

Posted by: Regular Guy at January 06, 2014 12:55 PM (N3Al8)

104 but was Rolling Stone's (intellectual powerhouse that it is) article 'Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For.' linked here? I noticed a couple of Morons over there trashing the place.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:55 PM (QupBk)

105 Also...if single payer is the goal, what does it benefit the insurance companies to play nicely with Obama? Couldn't they just say the hell with it to all the government demands, since they're going bye bye in the near future any ways? Posted by: Shibumi The insurance companies either didn't know or were blinded by dollar signs and couldn't see that single payer was where this was heading. Hell, maybe they recognized it but figured that as long as they could charge jacked up premiums for what amounts to catastrophic coverage, what do they care if the money doesn't last forever? They'll get rich in the short term and can use the extra capital to diversify into some other business model. Their mistake was thinking that they were dealing with politicians who'd stay bought. They should've known better, given how this administration has dealt with contract law and such since Jan 2009. (See the GM and Chrysler bailouts for details there.) So now the insurance companies are stuck being the ones blamed for the higher premiums and deductibles and people losing the doctors they liked or the plans they liked, and will be the ones punished with bankruptcy once single-payer is enacted. Sorry... I can't cry any tears over their loss.

Posted by: elaine at January 06, 2014 12:56 PM (GNZ0/)

106

The left is afraid of pain....

Posted by: Regular Guy at January 06, 2014 12:56 PM (N3Al8)

107 I would open up the entire one sixth of the economy to pilferage
***
It is amazing how much intellectual power and work is currently being applied to graft instead of creating wealth.

We are evolving into a society to sick to long survive.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 12:56 PM (P3U0f)

108
I don't think the country is clamoring for da Beast. She's old, she's ugly, and she has da Zero's dick on her breath.

Posted by: maddogg at January 06, 2014 04:40 PM (xWW96)

I disagree. I don't believe for a second that Hill has EVER held a cock in her mouth.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 12:56 PM (TIIx5)

109 To be able to transition to Plan B, Plan A must work. Somewhat. Having the FSA roll up to the ER & find out that they are not covered, is akin to them finding out that their EBT cards won't be reloaded. Instant burnage.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 12:57 PM (XCfYI)

110 Unfortunately, they've been very successful. It's one of the reasons why I don't call Baraka dumb. He's been carrying out his agenda of "fundementally transforming America" like a boss. Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 04:50 PM (6xoO1) Yes, he's a fucking genius rather than a stupid knee jerk communist.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 12:57 PM (bb5+k)

111 It's one of the reasons why I don't call Baraka dumb. He's been carrying out his agenda of "fundementally transforming America" like a boss. It doesn't take much intellect to burn the place to the ground.

Posted by: toby928© at January 06, 2014 12:59 PM (QupBk)

112 The week after Obama leaves office it will turn out that he really was raised by Communists and there really was something messed up about his BC. But until then you are a racist Tea Party terrorist.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 06, 2014 12:59 PM (nDv5M)

113 shouldn't there be an "...unexpectedly..." somewhere in this post or its quotes.

i mean really, who could have possibly foreseen any of these events occurring?

(besides Helen Keller or Ray Charles, for instance %-)

Posted by: redc1c4 at January 06, 2014 12:59 PM (q+fqH)

114 Yes, he's a fucking genius rather than a stupid knee jerk communist.
***
So...to counter that...if I told you that a man could be reelected president with trillion dollar deficits, double digit unemployment, and 10% or so real inflation in 2006 I don't think you consider him an idiot...no?

Of course to manage all those feats, one cannot, at the same time, be anything other then an objective failure.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (P3U0f)

115 Considering that the American People are seeing the fumbling fuckups of their federal gummint more prominently than anything with the private sector, I'd say that they've actually poisoned the well for Single Payer for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (MMC8r)

116 The left is afraid of pain.... The left will find God & pray for hell compared to the pain we will bring......

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (XCfYI)

117 108 IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 04:56 PM (TIIx5)

Oh I am willing to grant that probably the evening that Chelsea was conceived she may well have held her beard's manhood in her maw weighing the merits of oral mutilation versus taking his demon seed up her icebox....

Her ego, despite her preferences, has never enjoyed how overt his dalliances have been over the years but when she was through calculating she took his member into her hallowed halls and he hit the target helping put to rest for the Arkansan "untermenschen" the idea that they were crazy dope smoking hippies who were alien to their ways.

"mission accomplished"

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (TE35l)

118 Posted by: Daybrother at January 06, 2014 04:59 PM (nDv5M) If he wants to play for UN Sec. Gen., he needs to be from a non-permanent Security Council state, ergo...

Posted by: AMDG at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (t7OO0)

119 For centuries sick people were treated with leeches. Socialism treats sick economies with leeches. Maybe in a few centuries, people will realize that leeches don't help the economy anymore than they helped people.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:00 PM (XUKZU)

120 Even if Ocare fails, won't it still cause chaos? And isn't that the purpose? To collapse the system and cause chaos?

/curling up under a cover, waiting for the Democratic party to harvest my usable organs.... just like the movie Coma!

Posted by: Shibumi at January 06, 2014 01:01 PM (25HWz)

121 The insurance companies either didn't know or were blinded by dollar signs and couldn't see that single payer was where this was heading. Posted by: elaine at January 06, 2014 04:56 PM (GNZ0/) That's not really true. The Insurance Companies knew, better than most. But the Health Care Field has always been a mixed bag for Insurance Companies: a huge overhead and meagher profits. They went along because the obama admin put them under tremendous pressure and sure they did also bribe them, but the bottom line, the Insurance Companies really don't give a rat's ass in the long run if they get our of the Health Care Field. They can make much bigger profits on other types of Insurance.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:01 PM (t3UFN)

122
It's one of the reasons why I don't call Baraka dumb. He's been carrying out his agenda of "fundementally transforming America" like a boss.

It doesn't take much intellect to burn the place to the ground.

Posted by: toby928Â© at January 06, 2014 04:59 PM (QupBk)

Related to the reason that Che left Cuba so soon after Fidel deposed Batista. It's a lot more fun to blow trains up than to make 'em run on time.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 06, 2014 01:01 PM (TIIx5)

123 8.9 deg, down 2 deg in the last hour.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 01:01 PM (aDwsi)

124 The week after Obama leaves office it will turn out that he really was raised by Communists and there really was something messed up about his BC.
***
Isn't the former pretty much agreed to by everyone now?

As for the latter,

[queue spooky music]

don't a lot of people inconvenient to the left die by plane crash?

Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 01:01 PM (P3U0f)

125 So...to counter that...if I told you that a man could be reelected president with trillion dollar deficits, double digit unemployment, and 10% or so real inflation in 2006 I don't think you consider him an idiot...no? Of course to manage all those feats, one cannot, at the same time, be anything other then an objective failure. Race card.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:02 PM (XCfYI)

126 Goodness. Fuel and glycol supplies are frozen ... flights are being cancelled due to global warming

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 01:02 PM (IXrOn)

127 Having the FSA roll up to the ER & find out that they are not covered, is akin to them finding out that their EBT cards won't be reloaded. Instant burnage. Sympathetic response: "That's really rough. I can't imagine why Obama is doing this to you."

Posted by: AmishDude at January 06, 2014 01:02 PM (xSegX)

128 115 --- at January 06, 2014 05:00 PM (MMC8r)

In a sane world you'd be correct.

You have one to spare?

The press is all in on SOCIAL JUSTICE ELEVENTY! hyperbole with no rebuttal.

It amazes me that no newsie ever manages to hear "we must extend unemployment benefits for the 5th year" and asks "where the fuck is the recovery then Mr. Carney?"

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (TE35l)

129 'Look, the president needs to find an issue to campaign on. This is what he's good at. He's really good at campaigning. Maybe not governing,'

Posted by: Spin Doctor at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (e8kgV)

130
The VA system is single payer on a very small scale. To expand this program to the entire population would be a disaster. Services at various hospitals and out-patient centers across the county are varied, with some offering great procedures and others mediocre to poor at best.

Many hospitals are over staffed with malingering, ill-skilled, and condescendingly arrogant employees. Also within the mix is a heavy concentration on minority representation, and on my last visit, I was barely able to understand the persons English.

So, to all the protagonist who preen for single payer, I look forward to the Zimbabwean proctologist sticking the love stick up your ass.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (pJF+c)

131 Garrett Johnson is right about Sven Johnson!

Posted by: Darth Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (Zswg6)

132

Obamacare and Single Payer walk into a bar.

The bartender say, " What can I get you guys?"

Obamacare replies , " nothing for me, I just came here for a second to show my friend where the bar was"

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (m2CN7)

133

101 -

Nonsense, Martin Anderson (THE MARTIN ANDERSON!!!) covered this topic. Completely!! Case closed.

The science is settled, as they say.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 06, 2014 01:03 PM (TOk1P)

134 My friends, you have nothing to fear with Barack Obama in the White House.

Posted by: John McCain at January 06, 2014 01:04 PM (Pr6hk)

135 "I don't think the country is clamoring for da Beast."

You obviously don't live in Commiefornia.

Just the other day I drove past a car with a "Hillary-Michelle 2016" bumper sticker on it. (I'm not making this up, not a word.)

"She's old, she's ugly, and she has da Zero's dick on her breath."

One thing I wonder about is if Hillary's health is up to the rigors of a campaign. One of the morons posted a shot of her at the de Blasio inauguration, and she looked hugely bloated and unwell. Like she'd borrowed a triple dose of Puffy Face Juice out of Ashley Judd's medicine cabinet.

On the other hand, she might have been healing from another round of touch-up surgery, but found it politically impossible to stay out of the public view at something so important to the liberal base as the triumphant installation of a Communist as Mayor of NYC.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 01:04 PM (gqT4g)

136 yo!

Posted by: stumpy johnson at January 06, 2014 01:04 PM (q+zA9)

137 Garrett Johnson is right about Sven Johnson!

I'm just happy these children could be here today to hear that.

Posted by: Tobias Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:04 PM (QupBk)

138 Trojan horse or horse Trojan?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 06, 2014 01:04 PM (9W1fA)

139 Insurance Companies: But I paid you a small fortune!

Single Payer Bane: Your money and infrastructure have been important....till now!

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 01:05 PM (WdbF7)

140 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill? Conspiracy theories are fun but we are talking Nancy Pelosi here. Occam's razor. They are frigging incompetent.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 01:05 PM (g1DWB)

141 Having the FSA roll up to the ER & find out that they are not covered, is akin to them finding out that their EBT cards won't be reloaded. Instant burnage. Sympathetic response: "That's really rough. I can't imagine why Obama is doing this to you." Actual response: Point & laugh like a retarded hyena.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:05 PM (XCfYI)

142 "What do you call it when you have a system of government that only, really, allows two parties and both of those parties agree on 90% of the issues of the day?" Kleptocracy

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at January 06, 2014 01:05 PM (pginn)

143 OT Cogressman Jim Gerlach (R) PA-6 just announced he is not seeking re-election. Long time establsihment GOPer - I'm not sure why so many are not running? I count at least 6 GOP congresscitters so far dropping out of 2014.

Posted by: votermom at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (GSIDW)

144 We knew in 2009 this was the plan all along.

Posted by: Bjorn10077 at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (KrfRJ)

145

you can call my Ray

You can call me Jay

you can call Me Ray Jay

but don't call me Johnson

Posted by: johnson at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (q+zA9)

146 So...to counter that...if I told you that a man could be reelected president with trillion dollar deficits, double digit unemployment, and 10% or so real inflation in 2006 I don't think you consider him an idiot...no? Of course to manage all those feats, one cannot, at the same time, be anything other then an objective failure. Posted by: 18-1 at January 06, 2014 05:00 PM (P3U0f) From the beginning, my working theory is that Barack Obama is an idiot. He has only one talent, and that is conning gullible people into thinking he's smart. He leveraged that into power by conning the only people who matter when it comes to politics, the people who controls what gets on television. He was elected because these liberal asswhipes had an orgasm at the thought of having a black President so they could have some in your face schadenfreude at all the racists they imagine in the other political party which they hate. Barry is simply the Chance Gardner that walked into this lucky situation. He's a fucking moron, people.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (bb5+k)

147 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill? because they still need a stop-gap as they rick roll us onto a single payor system

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (t3UFN)

148 Man this is some Smart Military bloggin*

Posted by: stumpy at January 06, 2014 01:06 PM (q+zA9)

149 Garrett Johnson is right about Sven Johnson! I'm just happy these children could be here today to hear that. Posted by: Tobias Johnson I'm happy, happy, happy that Tobias Johnson is happy. // Howard Johnson

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:07 PM (XCfYI)

150 Weather Update for N. Dakota: http://tinyurl.com/k3ctcau

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 01:07 PM (aDwsi)

151 Ace, I respectfully disagree with your Reagan analogy. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. Lower taxes and spending cuts WOULD have lowered the deficit. Reagan never got the chance to put the cuts into action because the Democrat Congress wouldn't allow it.

After Reagan's big tax cuts, he was willing to negotiate with Democrats. Remember the two dollars of spending cuts for every one dollar of new taxes? That was the deal Reagan and Tip O' Neil made. The Democrats lied. Go figure.

Posted by: Mike at January 06, 2014 01:08 PM (Rk8LS)

152 140 JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:05 PM (g1DWB)

They put in the bailout to buy Big Dumb Insurance's mollified silence when the sharholders are made whole(with political favoritism in play) and part of the bailout is government takeover of the companies...

single payer is the goal they are counting on the villification of the insurance companies left and right.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:08 PM (TE35l)

153 Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 05:06 PM (bb5+k) Evidenced by every time an actual compromise has to be done, it's without him.

Posted by: AMDG at January 06, 2014 01:08 PM (t7OO0)

154 112 The week after Obama leaves office it will turn out that he really was raised by Communists and there really was something messed up about his BC.
But until then you are a racist Tea Party terrorist.

Posted by: Daybrother at January 06, 2014 04:59 PM (nDv5M)

^^This is my prediction as well, as regards the Occidental and Harvard details. The MSM will report that "everybody knew BHO's CV was less than perfect . . . " as if it were commonly reported during his "reign"

I'd really like to smack a few of these pansy assed media types across the face.

Posted by: Sphynx at January 06, 2014 01:09 PM (OZmbA)

155

140 -

You really think Nancy Pelosi created this thing?

That's precious.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 06, 2014 01:09 PM (TOk1P)

156 Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 05:03 PM (TE35l) Hey, Sven, you notice our old buddy SUPERLIBERTARIAN 'X' hasn't chimed in on anything since the pot issue? Not that he's a single-issue Freedom Fighter or anything.

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 01:09 PM (MMC8r)

157 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill? because they still need a stop-gap as they rick roll us onto a single payor system They don't have that kind of time. People/families can't go a year or more with no insurance/coverage.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:10 PM (XCfYI)

158 I had a really interesting phone conversation with my 89 year old aunt last week. We were having this nice conversation about how my 96 year old father is doing. Then she told me that the government is taking over everything, like health insurance. She's going to a meeting. I don't know who's running this meeting. It's in an area of farms. I hope if they get a congressperson to come to any of their meetings, that they bring pitchforks and torches. We're going to miss the people of that generation. I look at the stupid, young douchebags, like pajama boy with his hot chocolate. Then I look at my 89 year old aunt who still sometimes goes out to the barn to help with the milk cows. I'd like to see her knock some sense into pajama boy's head.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 01:10 PM (rNHiK)

159 So, to all the protagonist who preen for single payer, I look forward to the Zimbabwean proctologist sticking the love stick up your ass. I'm convinced the British people love Doctor Who because he's the only doctor left in Britain with a British accent.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 06, 2014 01:10 PM (xSegX)

160 Happy Birthday, Jmel, from your birthday mate! I'm 3 years behind you.

Posted by: chique d'afrique at January 06, 2014 01:11 PM (xm1Dn)

161 One thing I wonder about is if Hillary's health is up to the rigors of a campaign. One of the morons posted a shot of her at the de Blasio inauguration, and she looked hugely bloated and unwell. Like she'd borrowed a triple dose of Puffy Face Juice out of Ashley Judd's medicine cabinet. Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 05:04 PM (gqT4g) She probably has half a dozen sexually transmitted viruses fucking up her system thanks to Bill.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:11 PM (bb5+k)

162 They don't have that kind of time. People/families can't go a year or more with no insurance/coverage. Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 05:10 PM (XCfYI) Which is why they need Insurance companies to hang around a bit longer

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:11 PM (t3UFN)

163 144 Bjorn10077 at January 06, 2014 05:06 PM (KrfRJ)

Ve knew back in 1949 zat zees vas der plan mein fruend....

I vas but a vee lad, but Nils Magnusson Vater of Olaf Nilsson came down from der vorest und said "That Truman are a Fooking Dumkoff Asshole!" and ve left MiniSoota!

Posted by: Olaf Nilsson Vatue auf Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:11 PM (TE35l)

164 "I don't think the country is clamoring for da Beast." Many of my sister's friends are still having orgasms when the SCOAMF speaks. Not kidding. The sheeple will be herded out of one corral, right into the adjacent one. Nary a bleep will be heard.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at January 06, 2014 01:11 PM (IXrOn)

165 >>because they still need a stop-gap as they rick roll us onto a single payor system I guess losing the House was part of the plan too? I can see the Republican held House rushing to vote for single payer. Obama didn't even have a health insurance plan. It was a throwaway line from a campaign speech that went over better than his campaign people thought it would and then he got stuck implementing a plan designed by Pelosi. Obama maybe evil but he is no genius. You don't fuckup 1/6 of the countries economy, drive your approvals into the tank, lose one and perhaps two houses of Congress, piss people off over one of their most sacred ideals and then say "Hey, how does Medicare for everyone sound?".

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (g1DWB)

166 But not only does the cold spell not disprove climate change, it may well be that global warming could be making the occasional bout of extreme cold weather in the U.S. even more likely. See h8rs.

Posted by: RWC at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (fWAjv)

167 Plan A: Single Payer Socialized Medicine

Plan B: ObamaCare

Plan B was what everyone got stuck with when Single-Payer just missed not getting bludgeoned through. Plan B was the Foot-In-The-Door legislation EVERY Progressive understands is sometimes necessary to ratchet legislation. It happens every time on everything governmental. Every. Time.

Name a period when the Federal System of Laws and Regulations shrank. Just one. It's a fckuing ratchet and both major parties are complicit, the Democrats just congenitally worse.

It's the state of the State. Like the Borg.

This is not news. It's just unceasingly alarming that, as a nation, we're simply condemned to further the rot.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (eHIJJ)

168 This Breitbart TV piece has the title:

Fmr Obama Admin Official and MA Gubernatorial Candidate: Broken Promises Don't Matter, Obama Goal to Make Health Care a Human Right

The guy's name? Donald Berwick. You know, the recess appointed Medicare head that is a big fan of health care rationing. And you can see how easily fucks like him explain away the lies and deceit -- It's cuz there is a higher goal, ya see, so it's okay and all as long as there are 'lofty' intentions.

Any means necessary. There was no mention of 25 million dead Americans like Billy Ayers proposed; Berwick is probably willing to go higher.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (wNF3N)

169 One thing I wonder about is if Hillary's health is up to the rigors of a campaign. One of the morons posted a shot of her at the de Blasio inauguration, and she looked hugely bloated and unwell. Like she'd borrowed a triple dose of Puffy Face Juice out of Ashley Judd's medicine cabinet. Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 05:04 PM (gqT4g) She probably has half a dozen sexually transmitted viruses fucking up her system thanks to Bill. Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 05:11 PM (bb5+k) That was a minor stroke she had a few years ago. She looks like shit. I mean more than usual

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:12 PM (t3UFN)

170

A Utah-based gun manufacturer has turned down a $15 million deal to supply Pakistan with precision rifles, citing concerns they could eventually be used against U.S. troops.

Posted by: stumpy at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (q+zA9)

171 I hear that Zimbabwean Love Stick is going for 250 bucks an ounce in Boulder.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (ZshNr)

172 Well, there were all kinds of videos back in 2008 with the Left's braintrust activists saying that they could not go directly to Single Payer but would need a transition step--and had one. Hell, there is even a vid of Barry saying exactly that in the early 'oughts. Why is this kind of stuff a surprise? The only reason it might be possible to get rid of this insanity is because they fucked up the enrollment. But as someone upthread noticed, can you imagine being a Congressman or Senator from either party and not noticing that everyone in the United States could be required to pay an additional ~$100-$1800 PER MONTH directly to the government on top of current taxes?

Posted by: Svenbrother at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (MMvfL)

173 Which is why they need Insurance companies to hang around a bit longer They had three years to screw this up. They don't have that time to unscrew it & get everyone on single payer.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (XCfYI)

174 After Reagan's big tax cuts, he was willing to negotiate with Democrats. Remember the two dollars of spending cuts for every one dollar of new taxes? That was the deal Reagan and Tip O' Neil made. The Democrats lied. Go figure. Posted by: Mike at January 06, 2014 05:08 PM (Rk8LS) Which is exactly why I was SO PISSED OFF AT GEORGE HW BUSH. We've seen this fucking movie before George. What made you think it would end differently for you?

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (bb5+k)

175 I love this dude's argument, everyone will see their poorer neighbors better healthcare through medicaid and think why not me.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 06, 2014 01:13 PM (WdbF7)

176 "OT Cogressman Jim Gerlach (R) PA-6 just announced he is not seeking re-election. Long time establsihment GOPer - I'm not sure why so many are not running? I count at least 6 GOP congresscitters so far dropping out of 2014."

A lot of the Beltway GOP are frightened at the thought that come January of 2017, they might actually be back in full control of Congress, and being held responsible for starting to clean up the colossal godawful mess that Obama has made of everything -- with Obama still there for another two years to veto remedial actions.

It's not going to be a sunshine, flowers and birdsong triumph.

It'll be, congratulations on the historic victory, welcome to the ugly steaming shitstorm where every action draws further blame and condemnation.

Who wouldn't be happy about signing on for that?

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 01:14 PM (gqT4g)

177 Dave in Texas and I talked about this very thing with Peabody Award-Winning International Film and Television Star Nick Searcy on the Podcast Extra. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/346242.php /shameless plug

Posted by: Andy at January 06, 2014 01:14 PM (0Veb5)

178 One of the morons posted a shot of her at the de Blasio inauguration, and she looked hugely bloated and unwell. Hillaryblack Desiato is spending the year dead for tax reasons.

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 01:14 PM (MMC8r)

179 They don't have that kind of time. People/families can't go a year or more with no insurance/coverage.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 05:10 PM (XCfYI)

----------------------------------------

Dear Leader and his regime come from the stalinist/Bill Ayers school of thought. What did Bill Ayers' little group say? Around 25 million people at the minimum would have to die in a short period of time to achieve their utopian dream.

Posted by: Soona at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (6xoO1)

180 140 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill? Conspiracy theories are fun but we are talking Nancy Pelosi here. Occam's razor. They are frigging incompetent. Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:05 PM (g1DWB) ********* Granted I'm sucking on a vodka tonic right now but-- I think the thing collapses via entropy. But you posit and interesting subjugation. Might not have been on purpose or for nefarious reasons but might have been something that the insurance companies lobbied for-- and it sure as hell ends up neutralizing a powerful group that would have been well monied-- opponents of the ACA--ObamaCare bill.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (RJMhd)

181 "A lot of the Beltway GOP are frightened at the thought that come January of 2017, they might actually be back in full control of Congress"

Damn it. Pardon the typo. I meant January of next year, 2015.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (gqT4g)

182 Barry is simply the Chance Gardner that walked into this lucky situation. I think Chance gets a bad rap. Chance the Gardener actually had a real job. And was able to use his experience there to extrapolate working ideas for unfamiliar situations. Chauncey actually made more sense than most politicians because his advice, limited though it was, was based on what works in the real world.

Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (QF8uk)

183 165 JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:12 PM (g1DWB)

Pardon me herr Jack but haf you noticed that the loss of das haus has not hurt ze donkey too much?

SCOAMF vas reelected vit der worst economy in modern history AND they are actually trying to positively run on this fucking empire state building sized clusterfuck as a positive....

Every Tyrant needs an excuse AND a vhipping boy....

Der GOP Haus vas both mein fruend.

Posted by: Olaf Nilsson Vater auf Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (TE35l)

184 Name a period when the Federal System of Laws and Regulations shrank. Just one. Prohibition. And that old people catastrophic insurance stuff 30 years ago.

Posted by: AMDG at January 06, 2014 01:15 PM (t7OO0)

185 You don't fuckup 1/6 of the countries economy, drive your approvals into the tank, lose one and perhaps two houses of Congress, piss people off over one of their most sacred ideals and then say "Hey, how does Medicare for everyone sound?". Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:12 PM (g1DWB) Sure you do. A) no one was really in charge. obama is so inexperienced that he left the whole thing to the Congress, which means young ideological congressional staffers with no real world experience in anything other than living off the federal tit. B) even if that is not where they intended to go, that was and is the only possible outcome

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (t3UFN)

186

165 -

Oh, you really do think Nancy Pelosi designed this thing.

I don't get you, Jack. You come here, act like you know stuff, then say the nuttiest things.

We used to have a commenter here with the nic, Random. One day he would argue against the existence of God, the next day he would practically claim to be an ordained minister.

That's who you remind me of. You throw a dart, and whatever it says on the dartboard, that's your argument for the day.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (TOk1P)

187 Vote Hillary! She'll Lie for You, Not To You!

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (XUKZU)

188 I'd really like to smack a few of these pansy assed media types across the face. Posted by: Sphynx at January 06, 2014 05:09 PM (OZmbA) It is my hope that the day will come when media people will eschew crowds for fear of being lynched.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (bb5+k)

189 Let's not forget that the Red Rat Commie Bastards thought they could afford to pay for this monstrosity with the carbon tax. When that failed, they pressed on with pure lies about it's cost knowing full well it would fail miserably on that basis alone.

Posted by: Tobias Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (QupBk)

190 14 Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President. .... Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (RJMhd) That's been pretty much substantiated. After the '08 election Hannity's radio show did a thing where they would have a person with a microphone go out into the street and interview people. This was all live and unedited. The person in the street would get a person up to the mike. Hannity would ask who the guy voted for. The answer would be "Obama". He'd ask why. The answer would be some empty BS about hope and change. He'd ask who Obama's running mate was. Hannity did this at least 3 different days, I believe on Fridays, with several people each day. Only 1 person got the answer right, that it was Biden. These people were even dumber than you would have expected.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 01:16 PM (rNHiK)

191

Can you imagine Margaret Thatcher with this busllhit?

Is there a single idiot over in GOP land that has any balls whatsoever to call this for what it is?

http://tinyurl.com/bjfl3t
http://tinyurl.com/bl6hyt2
http://tinyurl.com/kcp68mn

And Milton Friedman...

http://tinyurl.com/lbz5h39

But no one can seem to bother to take on this clod with jugears Obama.

Not a single one, they're all masturbating about meaningless wankery...and that weasel Ryan...

Ludicrous and unbelievable.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Commissar at January 06, 2014 01:17 PM (HQml1)

192 can you imagine being a Congressman or Senator from either party and not noticing that everyone in the United States could be required to pay an additional ~$100-$1800 PER MONTH directly to the government on top of current taxes? That they DON'T have?? How does that work?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:17 PM (XCfYI)

193 Now that my weather machine is completed and we are on the way to single payer we will truly have Soviet America.

Posted by: Comrade Obama at January 06, 2014 01:17 PM (Aif/5)

194 >>Name a period when the Federal System of Laws and Regulations shrank. Just one. Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act. 1989. The law had been implemented in 1988.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 01:18 PM (g1DWB)

195 Point out to people who like the sound of single payer that everybody in Canada and the UK pay approx. an extra 20% on everything they buy in VAT.

Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 01:18 PM (MMC8r)

196 I read that the GOP won't do anything before the election. hey think the road to electoral success lies in not pissing anybody off.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:19 PM (XUKZU)

197 Ugh warned you I am slightly drunk. Edit: your question brings to mind how the insurance companies might have been subjugated. Induced, seduced---brought on board--neutralized. Enticed. Bet you soup to nuts the insurance companies lobbied for that plank--not sure though.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:19 PM (RJMhd)

198 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill?

Conspiracy theories are fun but we are talking Nancy Pelosi here. Occam's razor. They are frigging incompetent.

Posted by: JackStraw

I'm unpersuaded by the TheoryÂ™ but Occam's Razor solved: The bailout will play extremely unpopular to voters under a concerted media spotlight.

Mr. and Ms. Democrat step up to save Teh Childrenz from Big Bad Corporate welfare scheme and blame the GOP for putting it in the bill in the first place.

After all, as we're still being reminded, the OCare bill was based on 'conservative proposals' from the Heritage Foundation, Mittens Rombley, and the EVIL KOCH BROS. EMPIRE.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at January 06, 2014 01:21 PM (dwArK)

199 That was a minor stroke she had a few years ago. She looks like shit. I mean more than usual Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 05:12 PM (t3UFN) I agree. Even with a Stroke, she probably still sounds intelligent to Democrats. If she's had a stroke at this point, she is probably making a serious mistake running for the Presidency. Nobody has yet opened up on her regarding all of her past scandals. Had she gotten past Barry in the primaries, she would have been burnt to a crisp by the arsenal of ugly history we can use against her.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:22 PM (bb5+k)

200 All right I am out of here to get home before the roads and ground freeze under me Later all

Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 06, 2014 01:22 PM (t3UFN)

201 Hannity would ask who the guy voted for. The answer would be "Obama". He'd ask why. The answer would be some empty BS about hope and change. He'd ask who Obama's running mate was. Hannity did this at least 3 different days, I believe on Fridays, with several people each day. Only 1 person got the answer right, that it was Biden. These people were even dumber than you would have expected. Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 05:16 PM (rNHiK) ********** Wow--didn't see that--wish I had.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:22 PM (RJMhd)

202 I don't think this was 3rd dimensional chess.

If there's one thing Democrats aren't going to "sacrifice" it's their position of power. ObamaCare has DEVASTATED the ranks of the Democrat Party across the nation, both in 2010 and it will in 2014 and beyond now that it's in place. The Democrats likely lost the House for nearly a generation.

People are not going to trust the Democrats for a LONG time when it comes to wholesale changes to the healthcare system.

I'm not sure what that means for healthcare in the future, but I don't buy there was some sinister plan from the get go. I think they wanted single payer, didn't have the votes, and so they shoved some mutated bill down our throats by people that have only worked in academia and government.

Posted by: McAdams at January 06, 2014 01:22 PM (BVnAx)

203 >>Oh, you really do think Nancy Pelosi designed this thing. Parts. Most of it was written by Jan Schakowsky's husband, Robert Creamer, a convicted felon. But it was Pelosi who shepherded the thing through Congress. Try not taking everything so literally and loosen your tie. Or ignore me. Either works fine for me.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 01:23 PM (g1DWB)

204 Everyone who didn't see this coming 3 years ago, raise your hand.

Yup. Figured as much.

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:23 PM (x3YFz)

205 They were too clever by half. You won't convince people to bring in a new system by showing them that half the system stinks on ice. This place tends to the pessimistic, but I think the end result will be a large expansion of people on Medicaid, and a realization that government in general, and this administration in particular, couldn't run a lemonade stand. There is a real Obama weariness setting in, and Hillary isn't the answer.

Posted by: pep at January 06, 2014 01:23 PM (6TB1Z)

206 I still can't get over how gleeful and proud the Left is over their lying. "Hey, we won because we were willing to lie!" Charming.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 06, 2014 01:24 PM (xSegX)

207 Oh bugger, here we go again...

Posted by: Brother Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:24 PM (naUcP)

208

Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President.
....
Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (RJMhd)

Hell, 50% of the time, the Vice President can't name the the Vice President.

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 01:24 PM (m2CN7)

209

>>That was a minor stroke she had a few years ago. She looks like shit. I mean more than usual.

.I agree. Didn't her Father have a history of strokes also?

Posted by: Registered voter at January 06, 2014 01:25 PM (AiKJm)

210 Also, Plan A and Plan B implies the ability to think strategically. These people can only think racially.

Posted by: pep at January 06, 2014 01:25 PM (6TB1Z)

211 198 weft cut-loop at January 06, 2014 05:21 PM (dwArK)

I see you haf read Big Media's Script Mein Fruend....

Ze Insurance Companies are the designated villain and the GOP will be both portrayed as their lackey and shown in the Insurance Biz taking der bailout that the insurance companies are the enemy too!

Donkey will whip his side as the brave child savers in this melodrama and the GOP will be suppressed by over the top overt crony capitalism.

It cannot be Choom or Pelozi's plan b/c it makes sense and vorks.

Posted by: Olaf Nilsson Vater auf Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:25 PM (TE35l)

212 Now That It's Safe to Do So, Left Begins Admitting that Obamacare is a "Sneaky Way" to Press for Single Payer Slight problem - the way they botched up Plan A has probably scared more than a few LIVs into entertaining the idea that maybe it's not such a good idea for the government to be completely in charge of running something.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 06, 2014 01:25 PM (G5cc0)

213 These people were even dumber than you would have expected. Let It Burn: Because You Deserve It.

Posted by: Brother Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:26 PM (naUcP)

214 Disorganization, entropy is a force of nature and it is very powerful. This thing is a disorganized mess and chaos is going to have certain people wanting and screaming for control. It's one of the hypothesis to why Russia --always rolls totalitarian.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:26 PM (RJMhd)

215 208 Hell I bet more than 50% of the US voter population can't even name the Vice President. .... Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 04:37 PM (RJMhd) Hell, 50% of the time, the Vice President can't name the the Vice President. Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 05:24 PM (m2CN7) ****** LMAO!

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:27 PM (RJMhd)

216 Slight problem - the way they botched up Plan A has probably scared more than a few LIVs into entertaining the idea that maybe it's not such a good idea for the government to be completely in charge of running something.
-
Yeah, maybe we messed up putting a bandage on your owie but now let us do brain surgery.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:27 PM (XUKZU)

217 AMDG: "Prohibition. And that old people catastrophic insurance stuff 30 years ago."

That's a law. Or a handful of laws. Prohibition notable but very limited. But the State apparatus kept growing, laws and regulations and all but for a sliver. Net-net, laws perpetually increased and now even at increasing rates.

IOW laws/regulations and the empowerment of State have yet to recede one iota.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 06, 2014 01:27 PM (eHIJJ)

218 Obama Care was probably designed to fail, or rather, perform "suboptimally," but it was probably designed to do so in a gradual, manageable, and acceptable fashion which would make it easy for the Democrat Party to demagogue against insurance companies. The slogan they were probably going for was 'We didn't go far enough, because we're too moderate so we need to do even more.' 'We fucked up, and we fucked you so give us even more power to do even more of that' isn't really a very appealing slogan.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 06, 2014 01:27 PM (DhGW2)

219 I think Chance gets a bad rap. Chance the Gardener actually had a real job. And was able to use his experience there to extrapolate working ideas for unfamiliar situations. Chauncey actually made more sense than most politicians because his advice, limited though it was, was based on what works in the real world. Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 06, 2014 05:15 PM (QF8uk) I am also fond of using Double Ought agent Jethro Bodine (if you know who that is.) , Maxwell Smart, Inspector Clouseau, Mr. Magoo, and several other cluess fictional characters to describe how an actual clueless fuck goes through the motions of governance.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:27 PM (bb5+k)

220 Wait--I might be getting my vodka-- Russia-- sucks theory mixed up with my chaos theory. pfffftttt.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:28 PM (RJMhd)

221 Was at a dinner party this weekend, was reluctant to go because the host is a died in the wool Fabian socialist whom I really don't much like. His wife retired from PP. baby killers and Malthusians. We war gamed it and because of the other guests we actually do enjoy, we decided to attend with the objective of avoiding politics. But we won't back down anymore if the topics come up. We successfully made it to the end of dinner before the topic of healthcare was forced into the conversation by our smug bastard of a host. The rest of the evening was a fucking shambles that went from ocare to single payer to Malthusian population control to, well, fuck every leftist talking point out there. Then the boor of a host passed out at the table. Think Che Guevara in a wife beater. And his stupid wife had the flu and they failed to cancel the party for some unfathomable reason. We've been avoiding these people since the last election because they're insufferable, but they are the opinion leaders of a large group of our so called friends. I am now officially done with them all. since when has it ever been polite to talk politics and religion in a light hearted social setting? These bastards have thrown civility out the window to get what they want and this will not end well. I only wish I would have told that rat bastard to his face that he is my sworn enemy. See you at the war mofo.

Posted by: Derak at January 06, 2014 01:29 PM (1LzLh)

222 SCOAMF vas reelected vit der worst economy in modern history AND they are actually trying to positively run on this fucking empire state building sized clusterfuck as a positive.... Every Tyrant needs an excuse AND a vhipping boy.... Der GOP Haus vas both mein fruend. Posted by: Olaf Nilsson Vater auf Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 05:15 PM (TE35l) I personally think the electoral results were as valid as the unemployment reports. Obama DOES know how to cheat, and I have little doubt that his team did exactly this in the large urban areas of the nation.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:29 PM (bb5+k)

223

To adjust the title phrase from my favorite novel excerpt. Remember this.

Conservatives are courageous but not bold. Liberals are bold but not courageous.

Boldness will allow the Democrats to eventually turn healthcare reform into a single payer. A mere few years ago, every state that voted on gay marriage voted to ban it. Over 30 states. Where are we now.

Posted by: polynikes at January 06, 2014 01:29 PM (m2CN7)

224 Cloward-Piven at its finest.

Posted by: gawntrail at January 06, 2014 01:29 PM (DcehS)

225 Yeah, maybe we messed up putting a bandage on your owie but now let us do brain surgery.
Posted by: WalrusRex

Not to worry. I'm available and my schedule is remarkably open.

Posted by: Wiener-lopping Mohel at January 06, 2014 01:30 PM (6TB1Z)

226 Single Payer, being the ne plus ultra of health-care Communism and egalitarianism is some sort of Leftist ideal. Overt failure, on the other hand, probably isn't.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 06, 2014 01:31 PM (DhGW2)

227 202 I don't think this was 3rd dimensional chess.

If there's one thing Democrats aren't going to "sacrifice" it's their position of power. ObamaCare has DEVASTATED the ranks of the Democrat Party across the nation, both in 2010 and it will in 2014 and beyond now that it's in place. The Democrats likely lost the House for nearly a generation.

Posted by: McAdams at January 06, 2014 05:22 PM (BVnAx)

Individually, progressives are the intellectual equivalent of a bag of wheat. You can give them a sharp object and just sit back and eat the popcorn.

However, they do realize this. I don't think it's a conscious effort, but more of a survival instinct. Therefore: they run in packs.

Give a pack of progressives a sharp object and they will do 1 thing every time: kill someone with it.

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:31 PM (x3YFz)

228 Reagan never Â— that is *never* Â— said tax cuts would not increase the deficit. He, and all his campaign and documents and plans and projections and budgets, said explicitly that the tax cuts would increase the deficit and would reduce revenues. Art Laffer would disagree with this nonsense. He said revenues WOULD INCREASE, and indeed nearly doubled. Spending by Tip, however, gobbled up the increase and then some.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at January 06, 2014 01:31 PM (9Bdcz)

229 214 Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 05:26 PM (RJMhd)

That's correct, people forget that perversely Andropov and the KGB were largely part of the liberal wing of the communist party in the USSR. The reason Brezhnev was in charge of so much stagnation was the KGB had lost its appetite for wide spread mayhem like the Stalin years. That's not to say they were angels but they had been exposed to enough proximity to real working economies that they favored going back towards the New Economic Plan.

Andropov's final report to the Politburo included the request that Gorby be made his second in command. The Old Guard Conservatives flushed that notion. "Growth?"

Fuck that control.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:31 PM (TE35l)

230 Hillary is just plain not likeable. She is a shrill harpy with the personality of a chainsaw. The radical feminists might support her because historic but Hillary will not appeal to the average American.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:31 PM (XUKZU)

231 Point out to people who like the sound of single payer that everybody in Canada and the UK pay approx. an extra 20% on everything they buy in VAT. Posted by: --- at January 06, 2014 05:18 PM (MMC8r) Just raise the minimum wage, SNAP, wlfare, &c. 20%!!1!

Posted by: LIV at January 06, 2014 01:33 PM (XvHmy)

232 At least all this cold weather and bad health care will stop some PIV!

Posted by: Da Dykes at January 06, 2014 01:33 PM (0FSuD)

233 people forget that perversely Andropov and the KGB
-
He is my favorite Soviet premier because I could say, "I hope they shrivel up, Andropov."

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 01:33 PM (XUKZU)

234 I am also fond of using Double Ought agent Jethro Bodine (if you know who that is.) Jethro was the Double Naught spy.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:33 PM (XCfYI)

235

>>Hillary is just plain not likeable. She is a shrill harpy with the personality of a chainsaw. The radical feminists might support her because historic but Hillary will not appeal to the average American.

.Americans are a shallow people and do not vote for ugly......or Harpy.

Posted by: Registered voter at January 06, 2014 01:33 PM (AiKJm)

236 If they were determined to kill the insurance industry all along why did they build a bailout of the insurance industry right into the bill? because they still need a stop-gap as they rick roll us onto a single payor system Posted by: Nevergiveup My reading of the actual built in bailout was that if the insurance companies substantially misread their tables and charged too little they would be reimbursed up to 50% of their estimated loss for 3 years after implementation. The most recent reading of policy by the HHS toward this provision was that the government would give bulk sums to the industry and "work out the difference" over time. After Dodd-Frank and the GM nonsense it was pretty clear that the insurance companies could either play ball with the fascists or go home. A lot of these fucks figured they could cash in for a few years, cash out, transition to government in name then make nice with the Communists and go to their parties in the South of France.

Posted by: Svenbrother at January 06, 2014 01:34 PM (vEQwN)

237 "can you imagine being a Congressman or Senator from either party and not noticing that everyone in the United States could be required to pay an additional ~$100-$1800 PER MONTH directly to the government on top of current taxes? "

That they DON'T have?? How does that work?

13 And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine. 14 And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, for the corn which they bought: and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's house. 15 And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth. 16 And Joseph said, Give your cattle; and I will give you for your cattle, if money fail. 17 And they brought their cattle unto Joseph: and Joseph gave them bread in exchange for horses, and for the flocks, and for the cattle of the herds, and for the asses: and he fed them with bread for all their cattle for that year. 18 When that year was ended, they came unto him the second year, and said unto him, We will not hide it from my lord, how that our money is spent; my lord also hath our herds of cattle; there is not ought left in the sight of my lord, but our bodies, and our lands: 19 Wherefore shall we die before thine eyes, both we and our land? buy us and our land for bread, and we and our land will be servants unto Pharaoh.

Posted by: Tobias Johnson at January 06, 2014 01:34 PM (QupBk)

238 Geeze. Temperature dropping like a rock, now 6 deg, down 2.9 deg in 1/2 hour.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 06, 2014 01:34 PM (aDwsi)

239

Carney-Barker is so ashamed of the role he's playing the creation of the soviet collective that he's taken to disguising himself, as a twelve year old with a beard.

http://bit.ly/1iLi3Vw

Posted by: MTF at January 06, 2014 01:34 PM (B5y+v)

240 230 Hillary is just plain not likeable. She is a shrill harpy with the personality of a chainsaw.

I dunno. I find it so entrancing when Barry walks around with his nose in the air that I'm sure the American public will be delighted by Hill doing the same.

Posted by: pep at January 06, 2014 01:35 PM (6TB1Z)

241 look, this government wants to administer everything so we have to beg for it, and they control us. they salivate when they think of all the kids they can have if they put parochial schools out of business, and those damn hospitals they have!!! They want them too.

Posted by: Guido - 'now with 75+% more hate!' at January 06, 2014 01:35 PM (yICtd)

242 The Democrat Party needs people to always be unsatisfied. To always feel like there is something more the Government/Party can give them. As such, they will probably continue to try to move toward Single Payer. Or Tampons for the Gays, or whatever. The important thing is that there always has to be something more. The present can never be good enough.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at January 06, 2014 01:35 PM (DhGW2)

243 Americans are a shallow people and do not vote for ugly......or Harpy.

Posted by: Registered voter at January 06, 2014 05:33 PM (AiKJm)

uh... the current president looks like a comic strip character.

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:35 PM (x3YFz)

244 Damn it Jack- did you actually ever try reading the ACA? I did. It was like trying to navigate a labyrinth with Meniere's Disease after consuming a pint of rum.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:35 PM (RJMhd)

245

>>Jethro was the Double Naught spy.

.That's what I thought.

Posted by: Registered voter at January 06, 2014 01:36 PM (AiKJm)

246 239 Carney-Barker is so ashamed of the role he's playing the creation of the soviet collective that he's taken to disguising himself, as a twelve year old with a beard.

Dude. That's just pathetic.

Posted by: Justin Bieber at January 06, 2014 01:36 PM (6TB1Z)

247 I think we should have single payer - and it should be Warren Buffet.

Posted by: Jean at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (4JkHl)

248 Me as presidential candidate in 2016: "Take your historic woman as president bullshit and shove it up your coal black cooter, Shrill." *drops mic*

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (oFCZn)

249 164 "I don't think the country is clamoring for da Beast." Remember she'll have the entire liberal media, news and entertainment, bending themselves into pretzels to make her look good. After 12 months of 24/7 positive propaganda she'll look like the best thing since sliced bread. The fact that she was allowed to get away with that Benghazi remark, "what difference does it make", says everything. The woman could drop her pants and take a dump in Times Square, and it wouldn't matter.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (rNHiK)

250 Jethro was the Double Naught spy. Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 05:33 PM (XCfYI) You are right. I misremembered. The point is, the General and that Psychiatrist thought he was a brilliant genius when he was, in fact, a complete fool. He summarizes Barack Obama perfectly.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (bb5+k)

251 233 WalrusRex at January 06, 2014 05:33 PM (XUKZU)

Tell me something WR do you ever find yourself looking at this mess of a government and get the feeling that we are in fact in a one party state and our side is the "liberals" in a happy collecivist funhouse?"

Lord know I argued here for how many years against Luap Nor Kult and the Gerg Fucking Retard Militia that the American System was different and because of its genuine pendulumatic nature immune to a defacto one party state.

I don't think I'd win that argument arguing the present anymore.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:37 PM (TE35l)

252 It was like trying to navigate a labyrinth with Meniere's Disease after consuming a pint of rum.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 05:35 PM (RJMhd)

Heh.

Pint.

You're new around here, I'm guessing.

Well, here's our 2-gallon mug.

No, keep it. You'll be needing it later.

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:38 PM (x3YFz)

253 Remember she'll have the entire liberal media, news and entertainment, bending themselves into pretzels to make her look good.

True, but it won't work a second time.

Posted by: pep at January 06, 2014 01:38 PM (6TB1Z)

254 After 12 months of 24/7 positive propaganda she'll look like the best thing since sliced bread. The fact that she was allowed to get away with that Benghazi remark, "what difference does it make", says everything. The woman could drop her pants and take a dump in Times Square, and it wouldn't matter. Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 05:37 PM (rNHiK) Which is why one party control of mass communications is the greatest threat we face.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:40 PM (bb5+k)

255 >>did you actually ever try reading the ACA? >>I did. Parts. Not enough rum in the universe to get me through all of it. But this was all foretold in Creamer's book which was widely touted by Axelrod as a blueprint for socialist dominance of America. Step 1 was government taking control of health care by convincing as many people as possible that healthcare was a human right. The idea was to turn people into wards of the state. Step 2 is amnesty for illegals by playing on people's emotions of fairness and demonizing anyone who didn't agree as evil thereby insuring a Democratic majority. Does this plan sound familiar?

Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 01:40 PM (g1DWB)

256 The point is, the General and that Psychiatrist thought he was a brilliant genius when he was, in fact, a complete fool. He summarizes Barack Obama perfectly. Too true.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 06, 2014 01:40 PM (XCfYI)

257 "Take your historic woman as president bullshit and shove it up your coal black cooter, Shrill."

*drops mic*

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 06, 2014 05:37 PM (oFCZn)

As pickup lines go, this one may need some time on the white board.

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:40 PM (x3YFz)

258 had lost its appetite for wide spread mayhem like the Stalin years ********* Well they just got tired of people getting slaughtered. Simple as that. China. Go look at genocides that wiped out percentages of the world populations at their time. China--when they start fighting each other--it's huge. So--supposedly they will put up with a loss of freedom in exchange for an escape from entropy--disorganization--chaos. Something like that. ObamaCare will *win* simply because it neutralized natural opponents or-- co-opted them, then it finishes--or follows through because it was written so poorly and is being carried out in a careless fashion.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:40 PM (RJMhd)

259 Later folks.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 06, 2014 01:41 PM (bb5+k)

260

The reason that O is Chance Gardener and not Mister Magoo or some other doofus is the projection. Obama was the blank slate upon whom all good things could be wished. People wanted to find him wise, so they ascribed wisdom to any nonsense he uttered.

And the cognitive dissonance, it now bites. "Turns out there weren't as many 'shovel ready' projects as we thought there were". "Turns out health insurance is really complicated". "Turns out warlords are immune to my charm and my creases".

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 06, 2014 01:42 PM (A0sHn)

261 257 "Take your historic woman as president bullshit and shove it up your coal black cooter, Shrill." *drops mic* Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 06, 2014 05:37 PM (oFCZn) As pickup lines go, this one may need some time on the white board. Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 05:40 PM (x3YFz) Hey I never claimed I was running to win.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 06, 2014 01:42 PM (oFCZn)

262 But this was all foretold in Creamer's book which was widely touted by Axelrod as a blueprint for socialist dominance of America. Step 1 was government taking control of health care by convincing as many people as possible that healthcare was a human right. The idea was to turn people into wards of the state. Step 2 is amnesty for illegals by playing on people's emotions of fairness and demonizing anyone who didn't agree as evil thereby insuring a Democratic majority. Does this plan sound familiar? Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:40 PM (g1DWB) ******* Okay now I'm interested in that book. Does this plan sound familiar? Are you speaking of a particular country? Does not sound like how Canada did it--heh.

Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 01:43 PM (RJMhd)

263 258 Yahoo! News Editor at January 06, 2014 05:40 PM (RJMhd)

I still want to believe we're smarter than this, but I was taught a bitter lesson last year. The GOP is doing a bang-up teaching me it is more bothered by my being bothered that the Federal Government is killing the fucking economy and non 1%er individual wealth by savings. The game is rigged.

The Media should be forced to have their fucking dental team on speed dial.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 06, 2014 01:44 PM (TE35l)

264 Passing a single payer will be difficult, even if Democrats are in power of all branches of government.

You would have to tie a MASSIVE tax increase on the middle class, there would be rationing, not being able to choose your doctor, wage caps, price controls, etc. All company plans would be cancelled, unions would be upset, etc.

Even though the healthcare industry is liberal, I also think you would see a massive push back from the industry. Remember, the pharmaceuetical industry is what destroyed HillaryCare.

Most Democrats are not going to risk their career on changing healthcare for a while. Not saying "get complacent", because I'm already hearing the cries for "single payer" but putting the nation through ObamaCare is a really dumb way to get the government to control more of our healthcare.

Posted by: McAdams at January 06, 2014 01:44 PM (BVnAx)

265 And the cognitive dissonance, it now bites. "Turns out there weren't as many 'shovel ready' projects as we thought there were". "Turns out health insurance is really complicated". "Turns out warlords are immune to my charm and my creases".

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at January 06, 2014 05:42 PM (A0sHn)

Well, and the fact that most congressional staffers are tweenies with 0 experience or wisdom is ripe pickins for the Good Idea Fairy.

Inept. Incapable. Just pick a word that starts with "In-"

Posted by: tangonine at January 06, 2014 01:45 PM (x3YFz)

266 This thing is a disorganized mess and chaos is going to have certain people wanting and screaming for control. The people that do this should be kicked repeatedly until they're purple all over.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 06, 2014 01:46 PM (G5cc0)

267 piss people off over one of their most sacred ideals and then say "Hey, how does Medicare for everyone sound?". Posted by: JackStraw at January 06, 2014 05:12 PM (g1DWB) I can tell you right now, this would not go over with the democrat party base in the unions. The teachers' unions in Michigan, the UAW, AFL CIO, and some others have extremely good health insurance. They're the only people I know of who have those cadillac plans that you keep hearing about. Single payer is not what they bargained for. The only reason they've supported Obamacare is that they think it won't affect them. I'm still hoping that some of their employers will dump them on the gubmint site. And if anyone tries to shove medicare down their throats they will scream like stuck pigs. Medicare isn't even close to what teachers in Michigan get.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 06, 2014 01:47 PM (rNHiK)

268 It was like trying to navigate a labyrinth with Meniere's Disease after consuming <2 gal> of rum. Posted by: Yahoo! News Editor The razor blades in the walls...don't forget those. Or when they turned out the lights. *Whimper Snorf*

Posted by: Daybrother at January 06, 2014 01:47 PM (HmWd0)

269 "Turns out warlords are immune to my charm and my creases". ...Proving that warlords are smarter than David Brooks.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 06, 2014 01:48 PM (G5cc0)

270 Its funny watching Wesley Clarke screaming - I used to be relevant, I think.

Posted by: Jean at January 06, 2014 01:51 PM (4JkHl)

271 Yeah Mike, but just think you have the wonderful mountain view!

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 06, 2014 01:51 PM (0FSuD)

272 Laffer's Curve assumed we hold the growth of federal spending at the rate of inflation and cut taxes by 30% across the board at once. His projections were accurate.

What happened was that Tip O'Neill only agreed to a 25% tax cut, spread out over three years 5-10-10, so the stimulative effect was delayed substantially. Then, on taking office, Reagan discovered he had been lied to by Carter's national security briefings, probably to keep him from using the true pitiful state of our defenses as an issue, and we needed a big build-up.

In order to get the Democrats on board for defense, Reagan had to let them spend some discretionary money. His plan worked: by matching Soviet upgrades in nukes and beginning work on missile defense, he ran the Politburo out of money. It was only ten years from the time the respected British military journal Jane's Review first assessed Soviet overall military might as #1 in the world in 1979, passing the USA, and the fall of the Empire.

It wasn't Laffer's fault his projections were not followed, but his predictions were never wrong. We cut less and spent more than he advised, if anyone is to blame, it's Tip O'Neill.

Posted by: Adjoran at January 06, 2014 01:52 PM (473jB)

273 You're going to get single payer. You're going to get Hillary as Pres. You're going to be taxed, regulated, groped and prodded at will. And, you're going to pretend to like it. Why? Because what are you going to do about it? Fucking nothing. Douglas had it right....find the level of tyranny a people will tolerate, and that is the level they will get. And the limits haven't been reached yet.

Posted by: Normal Man spitting on his hands at January 06, 2014 02:01 PM (agLwc)

274 Bang! Killed this mf'er dead, I did. My work here is finished.

Posted by: Normal Man spitting on his hands at January 06, 2014 02:21 PM (agLwc)

275 Has anybody heard from Vic lately?

Posted by: Chilling the most at January 06, 2014 02:22 PM (gxtMZ)

276 @96 "Reagan never Â— that is *never* Â— said tax cuts would not increase the deficit. ... Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 04:44 PM (JRLlM) --------------------------------------------------- I smell troll meat." Then look it up. It is true, and it doesn't mean what you think it means. Anderson was responding to critics accusing Reagan of voodoo economics, and of claiming that his tax cuts would raise revenues. He didn't.

Posted by: D1st at January 06, 2014 03:54 PM (fIkHQ)

277 @215 "Reagan never Â— that is *never* Â— said tax cuts would not increase the deficit. He, and all his campaign and documents and plans and projections and budgets, said explicitly that the tax cuts would increase the deficit and would reduce revenues. Art Laffer would disagree with this nonsense. He said revenues WOULD INCREASE, and indeed nearly doubled. Spending by Tip, however, gobbled up the increase and then some. Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262Â© at January 06, 2014 05:31 PM (9Bdcz)" Wrong, Schwalbe. Reagan did not say that revenues would increase. Nor did Laffer, at least not as you think he did. (You could at least go to the cited source.) Every projection and budget that Reagan's campaign and Reagan's administration released projected revenue loss and deficit increase. They projected lower losses and deficits than a static analysis would predict, because of incentive effects. But they predicted lower revenues and higher deficits. And why would Laffer have agreed? Because Laffer knew that the Reagan tax cuts were across-the-board, not just at the high marginal levels. The consequence of that is cutting every the marginal tax rates in brackets is that those brackets below the peak revenue point on a Laffer curve actually do produce a revenue loss when their rate is cut. The cuts on the tax rates of those brackets that are above the peak revenue point on a Laffer do produce a revenue gain relative to what they'd produce at their old higher marginal rates. The Reagan tax cuts lowered marginal rates in all tax brackets. Thus revenues increased from higher brackets--as the Laffer curve predicts. And revenues decreased from the lower brackets--which, by the way, the Laffer curve also predicts. The effect on the economy was growth, and that pushed up total tax receipts from the Reagan tax cuts over time. (The whole history, along with a comprehensive analysis of these effects, can be found in Lawrence Lindsey's "The Growth Experiment: How the New Tax Policy Is Transforming the U. S. Economy," 1991.) While Reagan's tax cuts boosted growth and produced higher revenues, that is different from claiming that Reagan said that they would increase revenues and decrease deficits. He didn't make either of those claims, nor did his campaigns, nor did his budgets, nor did his administration's officials.

Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 04:09 PM (fIkHQ)

278 Amending the above, my 2nd para: And why would Laffer have agreed? Because Laffer knew that the Reagan tax cuts were across-the-board, not just at the high marginal levels. The consequence of cutting the marginal tax rates in every bracket is that those brackets below the peak revenue point on a Laffer curve actually do produce a revenue loss when their rate is cut. The cuts on the tax rates of those brackets that are above the peak revenue point on a Laffer do produce a revenue gain relative to what they'd produce at their old higher marginal rates.

Posted by: D1St at January 06, 2014 04:12 PM (fIkHQ)

279 WTF? Pap.....pap pap pap pap pap pap click.... Now stay dead!

Posted by: Normal man spiting on his hands at January 06, 2014 04:16 PM (agLwc)

280 Listen, we all know Choom Boy is a fuckup, so lets not all get our panties in a wad about the ACA being the pivot to single payer. Creamer? He was all about the public option, having us buy into Government provided health insurance that is cheaper than what the private sector provided. Within a few years it would have gutted private sector insurance and everyone would be all "hey, lets have USGov insurance for all!!!". Lieberman was the bitch of all the insurance companies in Connecticut, so he put the kibosh on the public option. The insurance industry has shitloads of lobbyists and campaign cash, so the public option was shitcanned. Choom boy still wants his legacy, so he turns the drafting of the legislation over to the wonks over in Congress. Buy off the pharma companies, buy off the health insurers and get Wellpoint, United Healthcare, Kaiser, and all the rest to find a role in some new framework for healthcare. Obama was cutting political deals across the health insurance industry to get enough votes to pass his legacy. Need more support? Include more bennies in the mandatory coverage! This makes things too expensive? Enable the insurers to only cover 60% of costs with insane first dollar deductibles! The frankenstein monster you get out of this process is the ACA. It was designed to pass congress, it was never designed to actually *work* in an effective fashion. It's not a master plot to enact single payer, but just another fuckup by Obama, who is willing to upend the entire healthcare system in the US just to secure his legacy in the history books. Nobody even guessed that Obama would screw the pooch on implementation, so now we have a frankenstein design, a half written website, and millions of people getting pushed into a system that can't process claims, tell insurance companies who is covered, or let people easily sign up for insurance. It is a clusterfuck of epic proportions, Obamastyle! There is no plan at this point. They are just scrambling to polish this turd. You can't put enough mayo on this shit sandwich to make it taste good, but by god they have to try, since there is no other option unless they surrender. Folks, even many high information voters have no idea what a high deductible health insurance plan is like. Wait until millions get their treatment, show their Obamacare insurance card, and walk out without paying. Only to get a bill 30 days later where they have to pay the entire bill (at the insurance co. rate) because they have not yet met their deductible. They are paying hundreds a month in premiums, and they still have to pay thousands before the insurance kicks in (at least on many Bronze plans). It's going to be a supernova of white hot fury as people start getting wallet raped by the ACA. Single payer is going to be like buying a car from Joe Isuzu at that point.

Posted by: Stirner at January 06, 2014 05:23 PM (l1p2K)

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