March 21, 2014

Obamacare Architect Ezekiel Emanuel: Obamacare Will Spur the End of Employer-Provided Health Insurance
— Ace

It was always the plan.

Emanuel reveals this in a new book, as reports the New York Times.

Mr. Emanuel expects the law to produce an unadvertised but fundamental shift in where most working Americans get their health insurance — specifically, a sharp drop in the number of employers who offer coverage to their workers. That scale of change would dwarf what took place last fall, when a political firestorm erupted over President Obama’s “if you like your plan you can keep it” pledge.

His former colleagues in the Obama White House say there is no evidence the law will bring “the end of employer-sponsored insurance"...


But now Mr. Emanuel thinks that a number of well-known national companies will break the mold and begin a trend. By his estimation, the proportion of private-sector workers who receive health care from employers will fall below 20 percent by 2025. Currently, just under 60 percent of private-sector workers get health care from employers.

“It’ll be a matter of a few big employers, blue-chip companies,” Mr. Emanuel said in an interview. “Then it’s going to be the norm.”

Posted by: Ace at 09:00 AM | Comments (435)
Post contains 210 words, total size 2 kb.

1 First!

Posted by: hmitchell3rd at March 21, 2014 09:01 AM (3YCXd)

2 Heee, heee, heee.  I always wanted to do that. 

And bring your micro-aggressions to me, because it will affect my triggers, of which  I have many (dead corpses in my basement).

Posted by: hmitchell3rd at March 21, 2014 09:02 AM (3YCXd)

3 Lying liars lie.

Posted by: Museisluse at March 21, 2014 09:03 AM (aE4lT)

4 We'll all get to be victims of identity theives then! I think I'd rather just forgo insurance and redneck it up.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:03 AM (pUAXu)

5 Will? I thought it already did.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit[/i][/u][/b][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:03 AM (0HooB)

6 Libs have admitted to wanting this outcome for years. Glad to see it's now in print and unrectactable, no way to say "context" form.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at March 21, 2014 09:03 AM (ojnk6)

7 One ring to rule them all and in single payer bind them.

Posted by: angel with a sword at March 21, 2014 09:04 AM (hpgw1)

8 crabs in a bucket.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:05 AM (x3YFz)

9 Not if I can fix it!

Posted by: President Jeb at March 21, 2014 09:05 AM (Aif/5)

10

I have a higher than Horde-mean tolerance for leftists.  (No choice, really, I've only lived in the Northeast and in Europe).  I listen to NPR, I watch Morning Joe.  Zeke Emanuel appears on Morning Joe fairly often.

 

Those are the mornings I vomit in my coffee and watch Big Cat Diary.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 09:05 AM (JtwS4)

11 Duh.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at March 21, 2014 09:05 AM (fwARV)

12 One ring to rule them all and in single payer bind them. Might want to get those exchanges working.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:06 AM (CRyse)

13 And they said we were crazy when we told everyone that the plan was to destroy the insurance market.

Posted by: Lauren at March 21, 2014 09:06 AM (hFL/3)

14 Fundamentally changed Amerikkka. No one can say the JEF hasn't delivered exactly what he promised.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:06 AM (7ObY1)

15

Uh, the US government CREATED employer-based plans.  It created the economic environment that made them profitable. 

 

So, why not just STOP PROMOTING EMPLOYER-BASED PLANS? 

 

Why not repeal things like the HMO Act of 1973 and its hideous progeny, which made employer-based plans more normal, paid for more routine expenses, and thus cemented them into daily life? 

 

Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare?  Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation? 

Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 09:07 AM (i5GO4)

16 13 And they said we were crazy when we told everyone that the plan was to destroy the insurance market. Crazy and rayciss. But mostly rayciss.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:07 AM (7ObY1)

17 @11
Some people just need to have the smug beaten right out of them. 


Oh, okay, I'll do it.

Posted by: pep at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (4nR9/)

18 I suggest that everybody go to a book store and read the first chapter of Bloodlands about the forced collectivization of agriculture by Stalin in Crimea in the 1930s. The rationales and excuses used by Obama Wrecks are very similar to Uncle Joe's as they attempt to explain away the failures o socialism.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (XUKZU)

19 I have a higher than Horde-mean tolerance for leftists. (No choice, really, I've only lived in the Northeast and in Europe). I listen to NPR, I watch Morning Joe. Zeke Emanuel appears on Morning Joe fairly often. Those are the mornings I vomit in my coffee and watch Big Cat Diary. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 01:05 PM (JtwS4) Awww... well, we'll get ya fixed soon enough. Now do 2 miles with this backpack of bacon. Oh, and here's some val-u-rite for when you get thirsty.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (x3YFz)

20 How's Kim Kardashian doing?

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (fWAjv)

21 So I'm assuming he's a racist KKK member obstructionist tea bagger, right? I mean, that's what the Left said everyone on the Right who noted this is.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (VtjlW)

22 Fundamentally change America, check. Make Americans depend upon the kindness of government bureaucrats for their healthcare, check. What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: whyme at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (l9mF2)

23 It is for the chillins

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (jsa6I)

24 Isn't he the moron (in a bad way) that advocated denying medical care to the very young and the very old? Said that medical care should only be available to those who have worth to society? That guy?

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (XiVKO)

25 I actually support the end of employer-based health insurance. It should be tied to the person, not the job. Problem was the tax code subsidized employer-based insurance. Let insurances sell health insurance nationwide. Treat employer and individual market health insurance the same tax-wise -- either subsidize them both the same or neither. My car insurance isn't tied to my job, neither should my health insurance.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (ZPrif)

26 Zeke Emanuel, from the Josef Mengele school of medicine. I really do despise this guy. Emblematic of the shameless, agenda-driven Left.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (aDwsi)

27 Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe and despise these buttfucking pieces of shit?

Posted by: Insomniac at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (Roi+5)

28 I'm covered. That means everything is free right?

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (fWAjv)

29 I am in favor of untethering health insurance from employment. But of course not in the way that Obamacare hopes to do it. And certainly I think we should win the argument as to why it should be untethered. Obviously, this was never done. It was if you like your plan you can keep it.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (gmeXX)

30 This is kinda what we've been wanting anyway, portability that is. What we didn't want was a government takeover of 1/6th of our economy, higher premiums for less coverage, a tax on medical devices and death panels deciding who should be treated and who shouldn't. Repeal this POS and let's start over from scratch, with as little governmental interference as possible, shall we?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit[/i][/u][/b][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:08 AM (0HooB)

31 Didn't Emanuel say this on the record before the law was passed?

Of course nobody in the media decided that needed to be said.  It wouldn't even have taken any work, just put a mic in front of the man.  He's been happy to tell anyone that asks.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (P7Wsr)

32 All a part of the long effort to communize the nation.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (bb5+k)

33 Isn't he the moron (in a bad way) that advocated denying medical care to the very young and the very old? Said that medical care should only be available to those who have worth to society? That guy? Posted by: LFW --------------- --> 26

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (aDwsi)

34 Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare? Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation?

Where's the fun in that?  Now, back on your head.

Posted by: Typical Smug Lib at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (4nR9/)

35 So, the subtext of what Obama was really saying was, "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it [once we own it, and are buggering you mercilessly]."

Posted by: jakeman at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (vH4YP)

36 Commie Zeke doesn't want to end employer-based insurance, though. He wants single payer. He wants to end private health insurance period.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 09:09 AM (ZPrif)

37 The Emanuels are among the most contemptible pieces of shit to ever soil this earth.

Posted by: garrett at March 21, 2014 09:10 AM (0yG58)

38 24 Isn't he the moron (in a bad way) that advocated denying medical care to the very young and the very old? Said that medical care should only be available to those who have worth to society? That guy? Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 21, 2014 01:08 PM (XiVKO) Yes. He's an evil, twisted fuck.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 21, 2014 09:10 AM (Roi+5)

39 This is an "unintended consequence" that the GOP could take advantage ofÂ… but probably won't seeing as they are run by jackanapes.

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 21, 2014 09:10 AM (CTCNK)

40 He would happily kill patients. Does everyone realize that? He is no different from a Nazi doctor.

Posted by: ejo at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (GXvSO)

41 Isn't he the moron (in a bad way) that advocated denying medical care to the very young and the very old? Said that medical care should only be available to those who have worth to society? That guy? Yes. The recipient of the Margaret Sanger Lifetime Achievement Award.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (CRyse)

42 Let insurances sell health insurance nationwide. Treat employer and individual market health insurance the same tax-wise -- either subsidize them both the same or neither. ---- Exactly, if Companies want to still offer it as a benefit, so be it, there choice. But let indivdiuals get the same tax benefit.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (gmeXX)

43 Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare? Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation? Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 01:07 PM (i5GO4) I'm not sure you understand the motives of our opposition. Creating a "gigantic clusterfuck bureaucratic nightmare" is a feature, not a bug. You do realize most of the people who are employed (note I don't say work for) by the government are Democrats? Why would Democrats not like hiring and paying more Democrats?

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (bb5+k)

44 He would happily kill patients. Does everyone realize that? He is no different from a Nazi doctor. Posted by: ejo at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (GXvSO) Tha NAZIs has spiffier uniformsÂ…

Posted by: The Political Hat at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (CTCNK)

45 I suggest that everybody go to a book store and read the first chapter of Bloodlands about the forced collectivization of agriculture by Stalin in Crimea in the 1930s. The rationales and excuses used by Obama Wrecks are very similar to Uncle Joe's as they attempt to explain away the failures o socialism.

So you're saying Stalin controlled the weather!?!  Stalin was the victim in the Holodomor.  His giant heart broke in two every time another Ukrainian dropped dead of starvation.

/a lefty said this to my face a couple of years ago, I had to leave the room.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (P7Wsr)

46 NBC News political director and chief White House correspondent Chuck Todd publicly criticized CNN this week for its relentless use of the "breaking news" chyron on stories related to missing Malaysian Airlines flight 370. "Another day of 'breaking news' based on finding nothing or in other words, 'not breaking news,'" Todd, who also hosts MSNBC's "Daily Rundown," wrote on Twitter on Friday morning.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (e8kgV)

47 Totally unforeseeable, unintended second order effect.
Unpossible to predict actually.


Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (si68n)

48 Is it wrong that I can't wait to see all these bastards hanging from lamp posts? The day is coming, soon I hope.

Posted by: kalel666 at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (gSqI7)

49 I've had the same car insurance from the same company since I was 16. Lived all over the country, had a bunch of different cars. Never was forced to change my policy to a new company. Health insurance should be a national market, not state-based.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (ZPrif)

50 And since most employer sponsored plans are deduced pre-tax from paychecks, this will amount to a windfall for the IRS and state taxes.

Posted by: bergerbilder at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (8MjqI)

51 He wants single payer. He wants to end private health insurance period. THIS

Posted by: NativeNH at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (Q3hKm)

52 I really do despise this guy. Emblematic of the shameless, agenda-driven Left. Posted by: Mike Hammer ------------------ '... Emblematic of the soulless, shameless...'

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (aDwsi)

53 "Welcome aboard! Here's the keys to your corner office, the keys to the executive washroom, and your ObamaCare card! You're welcome!"

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (3ZtZW)

54 Told folks this years ago... Its all about Tax revenue. If an individual pays for his own health insurance, its Taxed.... company pays for it? Untaxed... ergo, the Government wants everyone to buy their own insurance... Average cost of Healthcare in the United States: individual: $5,615 Family: $15,745 That ALL becomes taxable....

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:11 AM (84gbM)

55 This is an "unintended consequence" that the GOP could take advantage of� but probably won't seeing as they are run by jackanapes. #notthehill

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (CRyse)

56 Destroying employer-based insurance isn't a bad thing by itself. We'd be a lot better off with less centralized decisions as consumers of health insurance and health care. We don't need employer based auto insurance or employer based homeowners insurance. This whole system boxed itself into a corner long before Obamacare came along.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (+lsX1)

57 I too despise this sick, twisted fuck. The evilest of the evil, this guy.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (7ObY1)

58 That guy?

Yes, but of course exceptions must be made for those who are truly valuable to society.  Like, oh, I don't know, the architects of health care takeovers.

Posted by: pep at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (4nR9/)

59 Democrats don't want single payer they want 1% payer or at least less than 50% payer.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (P1WNR)

60 It's Constitutional. Bitches.

Posted by: Democrats at March 21, 2014 09:12 AM (Lljg2)

61 If I remember correctly, people under the age of 10, and over the age of 60, are less worthy of medical care because they aren't able to "produce" like the more valuable members of society. Except for all of the relatives of the politicians who set the rules.

Posted by: whyme at March 21, 2014 09:13 AM (l9mF2)

62 Know what will be fun? When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. Effectively making us all more poor overnight.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:13 AM (pUAXu)

63 You know, if health care were paid for using market mechanisms and the government were only responsible for subsidizing children and the truly needy then getting away from employer health plans would be awesome. It's never made sense to me anyway since it's better to attach health plans to individuals than to jobs, given that Americans have much more job mobility now.

That's the rub, though -- you would have to have MARKET MECHANISMS. Like cash for service, competition across state lines, minute clinics like Wal-Mart and CVS have, things like that. And that's most definitely NOT what ol' Zeke is talking about.

(Sorry about the yelling. When I think of the day I leaned that all of my raise -- every last dime of it -- had been sucked up by my employer's new O-Care-compliant insurance plan I went a little bonkers.)

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 09:13 AM (RD7QR)

64 My car insurance isn't tied to my job, neither should my health insurance. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 01:08 PM (ZPrif) Car Insurance is tied to law, and it shouldn't be. The government should not be in the Insurance business at all.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:13 AM (bb5+k)

65 "Another day of 'breaking news' based on finding nothing or in other words, 'not breaking news,'" Todd, who also hosts MSNBC's "Daily Rundown," wrote on Twitter on Friday morning. Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (e8kgV) Fox has done the same thing.... especially the Kelly Files... which has been ALL airplane... ALL the time...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:13 AM (84gbM)

66 I read some story a couple days ago, maybe it was here, about some dude who enrolled (after like 3 months of trying) in obamacare, and then was simply befuddled when he discovered it was nigh unpossible to disenroll. Sometimes, when stupidity exacts its toll, you have to just sit back and laugh at people.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:14 AM (x3YFz)

67 Democrats don't want single payer they want 1% payer Ding ding! Here's your Kewpie doll, Dr Spank.

Posted by: jakeman at March 21, 2014 09:14 AM (vH4YP)

68 Don't worry, I can fix this.

Posted by: Gov Christie at March 21, 2014 09:14 AM (Aif/5)

69 I've had the same car insurance from the same company since I was 16. Lived all over the country, had a bunch of different cars. Never was forced to change my policy to a new company. Health insurance should be a national market, not state-based. ---- I'm going to disagree somewhat with you there. You did have different policies because auto policies are written for the state the car is in. So if you moved from one state to another, your car policy changed. But because companies do not like to lose business and because people move often, it seemed seemless to you.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:14 AM (gmeXX)

70 48 Is it wrong that I can't wait to see all these bastards hanging from lamp posts? The day is coming, soon I hope. It's the pleasant dream that sends me off to sleep each night. Instead of counting sheep, I count Commie Propagandists being frogmarched to the execution chamber. By the time I get through half of MSDNC's lineup of Useful Idiots, I'm off to slumberland.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:14 AM (7ObY1)

71 If I remember correctly, people under the age of 10, and over the age of 60, are less worthy of medical care because they aren't able to "produce" like the more valuable members of society. Except for all of the relatives of the politicians who set the rules. That 10/60 rule CAN be applied to them....

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:15 AM (CRyse)

72 If I remember correctly, people under the age of 10, and over the age of 60, are less worthy of medical care because they aren't able to "produce" like the more valuable members of society.

Yay utilitarianism!  My eight year old nephew isn't worth anything at present according to pure utilitarian analysis. 

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:15 AM (P7Wsr)

73 Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare? Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation?

Posted by: Phinn

The Law of Federal Legislation
There is no subtraction in legislation, only multiplication.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at March 21, 2014 09:15 AM (twp4I)

74 Physician heal thyself .

Posted by: DrDrill at March 21, 2014 09:15 AM (sOFZs)

75 Know what will be fun? When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. Effectively making us all more poor overnight.

Are you an indentured servant or something? If your employer cuts your compensation you do have the option of going somewhere else.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (+lsX1)

76 Ekekiel is a utilitarian. Like all consequentialists, he hides behind the notion of a greater good to pursue a selfish agenda. I hope I live long enough to see him and his ilk get their just reward.

Posted by: garrett at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (0yG58)

77 62 Know what will be fun? When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. Effectively making us all more poor overnight. Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 01:13 PM (pUAXu) And that WILL happen.... Why? Because we are all afraid of unemployment... and without grouping together in a Union, have no real leverage against companies... Which is why Corporate profits have been up.... yet worker wages have been stagnant... Not pro union... but something is out of whack.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (84gbM)

78 40 He would happily kill patients. Does everyone realize that? He is no different from a Nazi doctor. Posted by: ejo at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (GXvSO) I actually think Left wing professor Goodwin came up with her "Law" precisely because natural comparisons to Nazis made her uncomfortable.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (bb5+k)

79 Those are the mornings I vomit in my coffee and watch Big Cat Diary. Vomit you say? I think I have a job opening for you.

Posted by: Lady Gaga at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (SY2Kh)

80 48 It is a common dream. Think nothing of it.

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (jsa6I)

81 When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. ---- Why do you think this would be the case? Why wouldn't market incentives push employers to pass some of these savings onto their employees in the form of higher compensation?

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:16 AM (gmeXX)

82 15 So, why not just STOP PROMOTING EMPLOYER-BASED PLANS? Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare? Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation? Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 01:07 PM (i5GO4) That would work fine, if the goal was to make health care more affordable and available. Unfortunately that isn't the goal.

Posted by: rickl at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (zoehZ)

83

You want Single Payer

You'll settle for ObamaCare

You'll get a Clusterfuck

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (3ZtZW)

84 Wouldn't that be, you know, easier than creating a gigantic clusterfuck "exchange" bureaucratic nightmare? Just UNDO the stupid shit you've already done that got us in this situation?

Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 01:07 PM (i5GO4)


I'm not sure you understand the motives of our opposition. Creating a "gigantic clusterfuck bureaucratic nightmare" is a feature, not a bug.


You do realize most of the people who are employed (note I don't say work for) by the government are Democrats? Why would Democrats not like hiring and paying more Democrats?


Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (bb5+k)

 

 

Exactly. 

 

The Republican Party, if they had any fucking sense at all, would have decoupled medical insurance from employment 10 fucking years ago, and de-fused the entire problem that 404Care purported to solve. 

 

The discriminatory taxation of individual and employer plans, plus 1,000 other foms of legislated and regulatory subsidy and protection of the employer-paid plan system, is what DROVE UP COSTS of medical care in the first place. 

 

There's no legitimate reason for employment-paid insurance.  None.  It started as a tax-dodge, and a way around wage caps that were imposed by FDR in WWII.  These back-door subsidies didn't go away fast enough, and people became addicted to the idea of Free Shit from your employer.  It was always a crap deal.  It created the medical and insurance nightmares we have now.

 

So, of course, after the government has wrecked these industries, the fucking Socialists come along to blame all the problems on the "Free Market."  Typical.

Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (i5GO4)

85 It was always the plan. ***** OF COURSE it was always the plan. EZ is a big fan of rationing (babies and old people be damned) and they cannot enforce rationing of services, according to his standards, if the private market controls health care decisions. I've said before that he is an insidious evil. He cloaks himself with the title of doctor when, in actuality, his focus is on how to maintain the most productive population. It is beyond frightening to realize that so many in this country have a Utopian vision of this country (this planet!) without you on it. Here's one of EZ's pieces wrapped up in the cover of rational, logical, concerned thought: http://bit.ly/1bZFjXz

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (DmNpO)

86 The Law of Federal Legislation
There is no subtraction in legislation, only multiplication.

Corollary 1:   And division.  Lots and lots of division in legislation.

Posted by: pep at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (4nR9/)

87 Those are the mornings I vomit in my coffee and watch Big Cat Diary. Must have to milk a lot of cats to have a Big Cat Dairy like that.

Posted by: garrett at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (0yG58)

88 Did I do that?

Posted by: Preznit Urkel at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (yjCAd)

89 Divorcing insurance from employers is most likely a net positive--but doing it by a stealth law is bullsh*t

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at March 21, 2014 09:17 AM (1ylub)

90 The Law of Federal Legislation There is no subtraction in legislation, only multiplication. Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 21, 2014 01:15 PM (twp4I) Corollary? The Answer to failed Legislation, is MORE Legislation. ergo.... The Answer to Government failure, is always more Government.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (84gbM)

91 Tha NAZIs has spiffier uniformsÂ… Posted by: The Political Hat at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (CTCNK) Well of course. Most of them were Gay.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (bb5+k)

92 If your employer cuts your compensation you do have the option of going somewhere else. Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 01:16 PM Ordinarily, yes. But jobs are getting harder and harder to come by unless one lives in TX or the Dakotas. Don't forget, we are in Depression and have been for nigh on 5 1/2 years. The lying fucking liars in the MFM claim we're not. But we are.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (7ObY1)

93 Know what will be fun? When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. Effectively making us all more poor overnight. Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 01:13 PM (pUAXu) And that WILL happen.... ----- How so?

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (gmeXX)

94 Another "lamp post" moby? Seems a rash of them lately.

Posted by: Moby Patrol at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (ZPrif)

95 Average cost of Healthcare in the United States: individual: $5,615 Family: $15,745 That ALL becomes taxable.... Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (84gbM) They need that tax revenue to further fund their studies of gay Mexican prostitutes and condom usage. I hate this fucking government.

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (fWAjv)

96 Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 01:13 PM (RD7QR)

There you go again.

Talking sense when only gibberish gets any press.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (LSDdO)

97 But jobs are getting harder and harder to come by unless one lives in TX or the Dakotas. ---- Then why don't more people move there?

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:18 AM (gmeXX)

98 I've said before that he is an insidious evil. He cloaks himself with the title of doctor when, in actuality, his focus is on how to maintain the most productive population. Same as Dr. Mengele.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (CRyse)

99 It was never about health care. It was always about control.

Posted by: Erowmero at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (1gcFZ)

100 Some day soon we all may be praying for Death Panels.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (P1WNR)

101 Effectively making us all more poor overnight. Don't forget all the employees (I hate the Commie term, "worker") who got their hours cut to 30/week thanks to SCOAMFCare. And all the hidden taxes. And all the other stuff we had to pass it to find. There should be no argument within the GOP ranks: this POS needs complete and total repeal, then start over, this time using some common sense.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit[/i][/u][/b][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (0HooB)

102 It's Constitutional. Bitches. Posted by: Democrats John Roberts

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (aDwsi)

103

>>>If your employer cuts your compensation you do have the option of going somewhere else.

 

 

Everybody WINS at musical chairs!

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (3ZtZW)

104 as a side note, when did the employer become compelled to pay for any portion of your health insurance? I mean outside of on-the-job risk stuff. As an employer, you got a sick tummy? Why am I on the hook to pay for that? Kid got a runny nose? I didn't hire your kid, I hired you. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:19 AM (x3YFz)

105 If you want to understand the playbook on the left's attempt to take over health care read the book by convicted bank robbery felon Robert Creamer, Illinois Rep Jan Shankowsky's husband. He actually wrote the book while he was in jail (which seems a pretty common occurrence for liberals, especially those from Illinois) and it's called Listen to Your Mother: Stand Up Straight: How Progressives Can Win. It's a step by step guide and shows exactly what the liberals have been trying to do.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (g1DWB)

106 "Another day of 'breaking news' based on finding nothing or in other words, 'not breaking news,'" Todd, who also hosts MSNBC's "Daily Rundown," wrote on Twitter on Friday morning. - These are strange days. F. Chuck Todd is right about something.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (XUKZU)

107 “It’ll be a matter of a few big employers, blue-chip companies,” Mr. Emanuel said in an interview. “Then it’s going to be the norm.” ****** This is how companies in Britain compensate their executives. A big perk for higher management is having a private health insurance plan offered by the company where you choose your specialist from the finest that Harley Street has to offer and never have to wait with the plebs who have to use the NHS and wait for months for an MRI. A two-tier system. It'll happen here very soon.

Posted by: flmom at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (nSjrf)

108 If obama had not put the majority of obamacare on hold harry ried would have moar 'splaining' to do. This is only the first part of the law to hit the fan.

Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (jsa6I)

109 Just a way to limit people's access to their choice of healthcare. Only the government will have a say. I imagine they have a way to disallow cash payments for medical treatment, too? Or, will it simply come down to the elites and uber rich having excellent healthcare of their choice and the rest of us getting what they allow us? This is communism.

Posted by: Zombie Pug at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (r7mtu)

110 Are you an indentured servant or something? If your employer cuts your compensation you do have the option of going somewhere else.

1.  Gov't has given a perverse incentive for EVERYONE to do this at the same time.  Nowhere to go.
2.  If your CURRENT employer drops medical with no change in payment, that's changing your original contract by lowering your total benefit package.  Are you arguing that's OK?  Your only proper recourse to a breach of contract is to leave?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (P7Wsr)

111 Must have to milk a lot of cats to have a Big Cat Dairy like that. The males are happy, happy, happy!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (CRyse)

112 And, if they keep     up with the EPA, IRS, and OSHA attacks,    it    soon will spur the end of employer-provided products and jobs.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (eoeps)

113 Health insurance should be a national market, not state-based. It should, but then the health insurance companies who enjoy little or no competition in their state would have to compete with filthy interlopers who might dare charge lower rates. Which is why said insurance companies tend to be against it.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (SY2Kh)

114 Employer sponsored healthcare worked well in a full employment economy where people lived in retirement fewer years than we expect today. In other words, it was OK for the end of WWII and the fifties when the rest of the world was rebuilding and we were an economic colossus. Expensible to business and tax free to employees just led to more minor things being covered and contributed to cost increases. I've been in business for 37 years and paid the premiums for all that time. Most of the time, we paid 100% for all employees from clerical to professional. Right now, health care is the number one expense in my company. Doesn't work for me any more, yet the alternative of even modest amounts of self insurance thru large deductibles is a paperwork nightmare for the employee. I know, I tried it for my family - its a wonder the family bookkeeper didn't divorce me. Also from a employee point of view, non-portable plans can make you a serf to the job, instead of to nobility. It isn't working anymore, but Ocare is much much worse - we'd all be in thrall to our Emperor and his DC mandirinate. Its like it was put together in a giant college dorm room bull session. I hope we can see that mess dismantled and have a serious attempt at resolving portability, pre-existing conditions and lack of competition issues. Probably will remain a hope in vain.

Posted by: chuckR at March 21, 2014 09:20 AM (w6bKm)

115 "hat's the rub, though -- you would have to have MARKET MECHANISMS. Like cash for service, competition across state lines, minute clinics like Wal-Mart and CVS have, things like that. And that's most definitely NOT what ol' Zeke is talking about." This is why I am in love with Christian Healthcare Ministries. You are 100% in control of your medical decisions. You go to any doctor you want. You work with the doctors on pricing. Your doctor doesn't have to get preapprovals to treat you. It's fabulous.

Posted by: Lauren at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (hFL/3)

116 as a side note, when did the employer become compelled to pay for any portion of your health insurance ---- Chalk it up to the law of unintended consequences from governmental control. Wage freezes during the war led companies to offer health insurance to provide extra compensation.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (gmeXX)

117 So you're saying Stalin controlled the weather!?! Stalin was the victim in the Holodomor. His giant heart broke in two every time another Ukrainian dropped dead of starvation. /a lefty said this to my face a couple of years ago, I had to leave the room. Posted by: bonhomme at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (P7Wsr) I had someone call me a racist for mentioning the Rape of Nanking. After I got done boggling at such a statement, I asked her if she knew what it was. She said no. So I told her what it was and she said I was just making it all up. I had to be physically hauled away because I was going right for her throat. To this day I regret not beating her until my hands shattered. Speaking of all plane all the time, I just got an email from Sirius that there's going to be a call in show to discuss it tonight. I am torn between horror and kind of wanting to listen.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (VtjlW)

118 If I remember correctly, people under the age of 10, and over the age of 60, are less worthy of medical care because they aren't able to "produce" like the more valuable members of society. Except for all of the relatives of the politicians who set the rules. That 10/60 rule CAN be applied to them.... Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 01:15 PM (CRyse) I know a shit-ton of folks between 10 and 60 that don't produce. Can that standard be used on them as well? Please.

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (fWAjv)

119 when did the employer become compelled to pay for any portion of your health insurance? It was a way to incentivize hiring under the burden of heavy taxation. Since it wasn't considered 'income' it was a way to improve your offer without exposing the hire to increased taxation.

Posted by: garrett at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (0yG58)

120 "We had to destroy health insurance in order to save it."

Posted by: Colonel Barack Obama, Special (Ed) Forces at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (TM1p8)

121

Headline on google news right now:

 

"UK experts back meningitis B jab"

 

I'm a moron.  Of course I read that wrong.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 09:21 AM (JtwS4)

122 Just revoicing something I said the other day regarding Obamacare:

Here in northern Commiefornia, the powers that be (which are of course all Democratic) are looking increasingly desperate to generate Obamacare signups.

The liberal congresscritter who has the district just south of Pelosi's headlined a student rally at San Francisco State U, trying to gin up enthusiasm.

Let it be noted that SFSU is an absolutely insane nexus of moonbattery. It is one of the most extremely left-wing college campuses in the entire country, full stop.

You would think that if Obamacare were going to be popular somewhere, it would be there. That essentially zero promotional effort would be required. And yet these costly circuses are having to be run right there in the very deepest heart of liberalism in order to cadge a few more signups.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 09:22 AM (noWW6)

123 Instead of counting sheep, I count Commie Propagandists being frogmarched to the execution chamber. By the time I get through half of MSDNC's lineup of Useful Idiots, I'm off to slumberland. Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 01:14 PM (7ObY1) So we are in agreement? MFM first against the wall, come the revolution!

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:22 AM (bb5+k)

124 Why do you think this would be the case? Why wouldn't market incentives push employers to pass some of these savings onto their employees in the form of higher compensation? Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 01:16 PM (gmeXX) Well, I would hope that you would be correct, but who knows. Let me say that I don't believe my employer will compensate us, just by past experience with them So it will be time to start looking for a new job and won't that be fun!

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:22 AM (pUAXu)

125 24 Isn't he the moron (in a bad way) that advocated denying medical care to the very young and the very old? Said that medical care should only be available to those who have worth to society? That guy? Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 21, 2014 01:08 PM (XiVKO) Yes, he has a graph. Needless to say, he isn't a big fan of throwing money away on the disabled. The thing that isn't addressed with this idea of his, is where do long-term welfare people fit into the scheme. You know, people who have been living off government handouts for decades. People who don't work, but take their living expenses away from people who do work.

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 21, 2014 09:22 AM (bmaUl)

126 I think when all is said and done, Obamacare will be nothing more than a tax increase.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:23 AM (gmeXX)

127 I don't hate many people. He is one I hate. He is a weaselly little prick that needs a good slap down. His arrogance is unbearable.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 09:23 AM (0FSuD)

128 I actually think Left wing professor Goodwin came up with her "Law" precisely because natural comparisons to Nazis made her uncomfortable. Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 01:16 PM (bb5+k) The deuce you say!

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC #banbossy! at March 21, 2014 09:23 AM (dFOie)

129 Ordinarily, yes.
But jobs are getting harder and harder to come by unless one lives in TX or the Dakotas.
Don't forget, we are in Depression and have been for nigh on 5 1/2 years.
The lying fucking liars in the MFM claim we're not. But we are.

Most of my clients would tell you the opposite. They're having a hard time filling available positions.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:23 AM (+lsX1)

130 119 when did the employer become compelled to pay for any portion of your health insurance? It was a way to incentivize hiring under the burden of heavy taxation. Since it wasn't considered 'income' it was a way to improve your offer without exposing the hire to increased taxation. Posted by: garrett at March 21, 2014 01:21 PM (0yG5 it was more of a rhetorical question. as posted above, the unintended consequence is that now people think that it's a "right." And it's decidedly not.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:23 AM (x3YFz)

131 Has anyone read this NY Slime story on "Micro Aggressions"? Might be fire walled. It appear that any discussion about anyone's history/family is aggressive. So STFU. http://tinyurl.com/osj2aho

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (0FSuD)

132 "Health insurance should be a national market, not state-based."

What? And give up our cozy little low-competition sinecures?

What an outrage!

Why, next thing you know, someone will be proposing that we give up our taxpayer funded federal "risk corridor" against losses.

Posted by: Big Insurance at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (noWW6)

133 Headline on google news right now: "UK experts back meningitis B jab" I'm a moron. Of course I read that wrong. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 01:21 PM (JtwS4) That's okay, my first response was I didn't know you could get meningitis from that.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (VtjlW)

134 >>>>94 Another "lamp post" moby? Seems a rash of them lately. Posted by: Moby Patrol at March 21, 2014 01:18 PM (ZPrif) I invented lamp posts!

Posted by: Al "Il Duce" Gore at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (8MjqI)

135 Posted by: Phinn at March 21, 2014 01:17 PM (i5GO4) You have summed up my understanding of the issue. Yes, government meddling with the market created the problem.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (bb5+k)

136 I think when all is said and done, Obamacare will be nothing more than a tax increase. Posted by: SH ----------- Well, aside from the reduced availability/quality of care.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (aDwsi)

137

The criminally stupid Joe Biden is quoted as saying that he wanted to nominate Obama for sainthood for being so patient with the horrible rollout of Ocare.  Biden spouts that NOW everything is okay!

 

Get that folks, everything is OK!  God forgive me for what I want to have happen to these people.

Posted by: Cheri at March 21, 2014 09:25 AM (G+Wff)

138 Headline on google news right now: "UK experts back meningitis B jab" I'm a moron. Of course I read that wrong. - Too kinky for me.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 21, 2014 09:26 AM (XUKZU)

139 Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 01:25 PM (0FSuD) The term "micro aggression" makes me aggressive. A trigger, if you will.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:26 AM (x3YFz)

140 as posted above, the unintended consequence is that now people think that it's a "right." And it's decidedly not ---- The downside is it tethers employees to jobs they may not want or need. It makes our country as a whole more risk-averse for fear of losing health insurance coverage. It is very rational for employees to hang onto certain jobs because they must have health insurance. Untethering it will not be an easy and quick process. But we could start by treating companies and individuals equally from a tax standpoint. At least give individuals the option with the same benefits.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:26 AM (gmeXX)

141 2. If your CURRENT employer drops medical with no change in payment, that's changing your original contract by lowering your total benefit package. Are you arguing that's OK? Your only proper recourse to a breach of contract is to leave?
Posted by: bonhomme


Most employees don't have contracts, they're at will employees. As far as getting insured through your employer or buying it privately, employer based insurance has the advantage of collectively bargaining for a lower insurance rate.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (P1WNR)

142 Oh look. Water is still wet.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (Xhp1L)

143 Emanuel is the son of Benjamin M. Emanuel and Marsha (Smulevitz) Emanuel, and is a divorced father of three daughters. His two younger brothers are Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel and Hollywood-based talent agent Ari Emanuel. ****** He's related to Rahm. Speaking of which-- what the hell is CNN doing with Chicagoland? It might be an infomercial for Rahm as Hillary's VP. (At least he wouldn't tower over her.)

Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (RJMhd)

144 Most of my clients would tell you the opposite. They're having a hard time filling available positions. Count your blessings. Different parts of this country are very different.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (7ObY1)

145 Let's just say that with the start of the ACA, my employer foisted 30% more of the cost on me (they are paying a lesser percentage of our healthcare than in 2013 and previous years but no equivalent salary increase) Not taking into account the different plan with a higher base cost. I saw a 120% increase in my healthcare cost and take home a significantly less amount of money per month. Why should I trust that if they pay 100% less, that they'll compensate me?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (k/Mc/)

146 If I were rich I would do this. Search the country for families who've had members die because their insurance was cancelled, or care denined due to ObamaCare. Pay them a lot of money to have the bodies laid out in front of the White House fence. Place signs with the bodies stating this is Obama's Dachau and Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Posted by: ExSnipe at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (LKJt3)

147 A trigger, if you will. Timney?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:27 AM (CRyse)

148 Untethering it will not be an easy and quick process. But we could start by treating companies and individuals equally from a tax standpoint. At least give individuals the option with the same benefits. Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 01:26 PM (gmeXX) I'm the choir. Preach it.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:28 AM (x3YFz)

149 "Micro aggression" - Code phrase for "Raaaaacist!"

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 21, 2014 09:28 AM (aDwsi)

150 Most of my clients would tell you the opposite. They're having a hard time filling available positions.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 01:23 PM (+lsX1)


Skilled and professional positions?

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 09:29 AM (RD7QR)

151 If your CURRENT employer drops medical with no change in payment, that's changing your original contract by lowering your total benefit package. Are you arguing that's OK? Your only proper recourse to a breach of contract is to leave?

If you actually have an employment contract that details a compensation plan then you have other avenues available to recoup compensation that you are owed. If you don't have an actual contract, and most people don't, it's a different story.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:29 AM (+lsX1)

152 "Has anyone read this NY Slime story on 'Micro Aggressions'?"

The last I heard was that certain effnik grad students had decided that for a white professor to be correcting the glaringly obvious spelling and grammatical errors in their submitted papers was a "microaggression".

That sort of thing is where I typically stop reading and start drinking.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 09:29 AM (noWW6)

153 This is how companies in Britain compensate their executives. A big perk for higher management is having a private health insurance plan offered by the company where you choose your specialist from the finest that Harley Street has to offer and never have to wait with the plebs who have to use the NHS and wait for months for an MRI. A two-tier system. It'll happen here very soon. Posted by: flmom at March 21, 2014 01:20 PM (nSjrf) Socialism/Communism is really just a two tiered system in which the Party apparats are the aristocracy and the rest of us are peasants.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:29 AM (bb5+k)

154 If it ends employer provided health care without leading to single payer, then it will have served a great purpose. I honestly think that way too many people were far too detached from the entire process, and were just happy to let their employer deal with their options.

Posted by: holygoat at March 21, 2014 09:30 AM (vAiDn)

155

>>"We had to destroy health insurance in order to save it."

 

So its like TARP?

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:30 AM (3ZtZW)

156 Curious if any of the Morons have received a "Dependent Verification Audit" from their health insurers? We've had to send in birth certificates for the jakespawn, and a copy of marriage certificate and 1040 form (with numbers blacked out). Insurer is Aetna.

Posted by: jakeman at March 21, 2014 09:30 AM (vH4YP)

157 They want fed gov single payer national health service and NOT Canadian, they want a UK NHS... We (physicians) want to delink health insurance from employers/employment status and unleash a nationwide competitive private market with a few minimum standards that ensure POS crap (cough * Coventry HMO * cough) aren't sold...

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at March 21, 2014 09:30 AM (vHRtU)

158 Oh, man. Authorities in Tennessee say the great-niece of singer Johnny Cash has been found stabbed to death and stuffed in a box in a house. A motive was not released, but police indicated the stabbings were likely connected to drugs.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:31 AM (7ObY1)

159

Socialism/Communism is really just a two tiered system in which the Party apparats are the aristocracy and the rest of us are peasants.

 

--

 

NeoFeudalism

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:31 AM (eoeps)

160 I'll go with the prophet Ezekiel from the Hebrew scriptures: The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge. Ezekiel, 18. 2

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:31 AM (XyM/Y)

161 I should have added that the "it will have served a great purpose" line is contingent on ObamaCare being completely dismantled.

Posted by: holygoat at March 21, 2014 09:31 AM (vAiDn)

162 108 If obama had not put the majority of obamacare on hold harry ried would have moar 'splaining' to do. This is only the first part of the law to hit the fan. Posted by: Bob from table9 at March 21, 2014 01:20 PM (jsa6I) And the GOP should be buying commercials and trying to get interviews in which every freakin one of them points out this is a trick for Obama to prevent electoral losses, and then demand that he enforce the law on schedule. I said this six months ago, if we are going to get this pig shoved up the nation's ass, we need it hard and fast, not slowly enough that people can get accustomed to it. Demand enforcement of the law as written and on schedule!!!!!

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:32 AM (bb5+k)

163 It's amazing no one ever mentions how the DNC governs by surprise. Obama ran as Mr. moderate budget cutter. And boom, super lib.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 21, 2014 09:32 AM (LEEQ+)

164 Bonhomme and AtC's "conversations with liberals" series kind of describes almost every conversation I have with liberals. Except I don't see anything like "shrill" or "frothing" there. I did have one recently shockingly admit that people tend to rewrite their own history, particularly on the left. If it wasn't so bone-shatteringly obvious it would have been a disarming admission. Mind you, they still get their news from Clown Nose, so their opinions don't actually reflect that realization.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at March 21, 2014 09:32 AM (qyfb5)

165 Socialism/Communism is really just a two tiered system in which the Party apparats are the aristocracy and the rest of us are peasants ---- Gosh, didn't someone write a pretty famous book that explained this relatively easy. I'm sure it is no longer read in our schools systems.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:32 AM (gmeXX)

166 If you haven't seen this yet -- it's good. Especially if you think Louis CK is overrated and prickish. Bradley Cooper vs Louis CK -- The Irony. http://bit.ly/1kM0C60

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 09:32 AM (ZPrif)

167 "Micro aggression" - Code phrase for "Raaaaacist!" *** And sexist!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (DmNpO)

168 Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:22 PM (noWW6) I'm in Clownifornia... The ONLY way I am tied to my Mother's phone number? the voter rolls... as I did not have a local number yet when I registered... Somehow, a PRIVATE company shilling for Cover California called my Mom, looking for me... three times.... I'm retired Military.... so needless to say I've NEVER signed up on any Obamacare webcrap... So, it seems they are giving Voter ID information, of private citizens, to companies for this crap... and they then call Numbers that are on the No Solicitation Call list... because... Government sucks...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (84gbM)

169 Too bad no one in the Republican party has the guts to scream this from the rooftops.

Posted by: Iblis at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (zCnVx)

170 Also, let me add that I would love to be able to pick and choose my insurance instead of my employer doing it. Love.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (k/Mc/)

171 "Most of my clients would tell you the opposite. They're having a hard time filling available positions."

Here in the SF Bay Area, which is one of the most comparatively healthy job markets in the country, I still have gotten wind of a dozen different people in my social circle having being laid off in the last month or so.

However, every last one of them is a preening Obamabot.

Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away?

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (noWW6)

172 Ezekiel saw the Unicorn Messiah Way up in the middle of the air Ezekiel saw the Unicorn Messiah Way in the middle of the air. What, you didn't sing that song in church when you were young?

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (7ObY1)

173 If you haven't seen this yet -- it's good. Especially if you think Louis CK is overrated and prickish. Bradley Cooper vs Louis CK -- The Irony. *** Yes it is. I got a hearty laugh out of it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (DmNpO)

174 And another Ezekiel quote: Can these bones live? Ezekiel, 37. 3 well, if the bones are employee health care Ezekiel Emmanuel sayeth "No."

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (XyM/Y)

175

Yes, stalincare    is eventually just a tax.  Just like social security is just a tax.  The democrats    could not pass a tax increase in the 1930s and they could not pass a tax increase in 2009, so they added a new tax. 

 

Note how the court cases parallel, and that the SC eventually ruled in both that they are merely taxes.  No benefits from either program are guaranteed to the payer of the taxes.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (eoeps)

176 DON'T YOU PEOPLE KNOW THERE IS A PLANE MISSING IN MALAYSIA????

Posted by: CNN [/i] [/b] at March 21, 2014 09:33 AM (5ikDv)

177 Speaking of shouting from rooftops, if a Republican makes a smart statement in a room full of reporters, does it make a sound?

Posted by: Iblis at March 21, 2014 09:34 AM (zCnVx)

178 I only watched about five minutes of Chicagoland-- had to turn it off as the narrator was worshipping the-- "young shirtless and brave Rahm Emanuel as he faced down Neo Nazis"-- they had footage of that. *GAG*

Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 09:34 AM (RJMhd)

179 Most employees don't have contracts, they're at will employees. As far as getting insured through your employer or buying it privately, employer based insurance has the advantage of collectively bargaining for a lower insurance rate.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 01:27 PM (P1WNR)


Yes, this is all true, but individuals can join external organizations that do the same thing. The point is to get easy portability and market incentives.

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 09:34 AM (RD7QR)

180 We all knew single payer was the end game. It's been said before, but can't be said enough , the incompetence and fecklessness of Obamacare is purposeful. Anyone who is gobsmacked by this travesty is either ignorant or disingenuous, or a Leftie, but I repeat myself.

Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 09:34 AM (fR6i8)

181 "enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away" Most nurses will give you $75 and their wedding ring for it...

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at March 21, 2014 09:34 AM (vHRtU)

182 169 Too bad no one in the Republican party has the guts to scream this from the rooftops. Excuse us? We weren't listening. We're sifting through our cocktail party invitations at the moment. Try us again next Friday. But send us money in the meantime.

Posted by: The GOPe Elite at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (7ObY1)

183 (I hate the Commie term, "worker")



********


Was at a smallish company (100 or so people) that brought in a new CEO who had previously worked at WalMart.

Suddenly, we were all "associates." I think I hate that term worse.

And anyone who starts a business email with "Team," is immediately barred entrance to my zombie survival shelter.

Posted by: Just some guy at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (vgIRn)

184 Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away? Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (noWW6) Do you have a couch? Or maybe a toaster?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (k/Mc/)

185 Most employees don't have contracts, they're at will employees.

Wait, what?  I've been an "at will" employee before.  I still had paperwork describing my compensation package.  Are you talking about day-laborers?  Even McDonald's employees have paperwork describing their pay rate and what health care packages they can purchase.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (P7Wsr)

186 159 Socialism/Communism is really just a two tiered system in which the Party apparats are the aristocracy and the rest of us are peasants. -- NeoFeudalism Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 01:31 PM (eoeps) Party plays into it partly... but I think its more like the Mandarins... its a class of Government employees, who have no real controls on them. Note the last EPA scandal about the guy who wrote their Playbook, and is now in jail for fraud.... that was under BOTH parties administrations.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (84gbM)

187 O/T The horde is a wealth of knowledge. I found a pair of running shoes that are brand new and in the box that are at least 15 years old. I used to run in this style for years and they stopped making them and I forgot I had a pair hidden. They look fine. Do you think over time the cushioning has dried out? I am going to try them, but thought someone might have an idea.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (0FSuD)

188 Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away? Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (noWW6) Go to the UK for a jab?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (VtjlW)

189 Its like it was put together in a giant college dorm room bull session. Posted by: chuckR at March 21, 2014 01:20 PM (w6bKm) You did see the stories about how this healthcare idea was put together by some Obama aids who needed something for him to talk about on a campaign stop? So yeah, a dorm room bull session is not far off the mark.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:35 AM (bb5+k)

190 "Micro aggression" - Code phrase for "Raaaaacist!" *** And sexist! And bossy.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (CRyse)

191 "I'm retired Military.... so needless to say I've NEVER signed up on any Obamacare webcrap..."

Don't worry. They'll handle the signing up for you.

I fully expect that one of the fun surprises yet to be sprung by SECDEF Upchuck Hagel is to shut down Tricare for mil retirees and dump them all straight into the Obamacare exchanges.

A regretful budgetary necessity, don't you know.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (noWW6)

192 Repeal this POS and let's start over from scratch, with as little governmental interference as possible, shall we? Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at March 21, 2014 01:08 PM (0HooB) Exactly. There were so many lies about this bill that you can't keep track of them all. Supposedly this bill was going to give people lots of options in insurance. One of the reasons that some people's premiums are going up is that in some states there are so few plans that they can pick from. People have fewer choices than they had before. If they can move away from employer provided health insurance, perhaps by giving the tax breaks to individuals, rather than to employers, so be it. But there needs to be more choices, less government interference, more competition, selling across state lines. And I honestly don't see the point of this Exchange. Contact BCBS, Aetna, and so on, find out what they offer, make your choice, buy directly from the company. Their websites work.

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (bmaUl)

193 oh, stop being stupid already, whom do you want in charge of your health care, greedy insurance executives and doctors who do unnecessary procedures to pay for their yachts and golf club memberships, or people who choose to work for the government, even thought they could make much more working for private industry?

Sheeesh.

Posted by: Mallfly at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (bJm7W)

194 Speaking of shouting from rooftops, if a Republican makes a smart statement in a room full of reporters, does it make a sound? Posted by: Iblis at March 21, 2014 01:34 PM (zCnVx) Yes! And the sound is Raycist!

Posted by: ExSnipe at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (LKJt3)

195 I'm fine with the employer-provided healthcare ending. What I don't want is it replaced by govt-provided, which Obamacare is trying to ensure.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at March 21, 2014 09:36 AM (09o/X)

196 A hidden agenda you say? This is my surprised face.

O.O

Posted by: Turnip Defense League [/i] at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (O7Q1u)

197 Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 01:18 PM (gmeXX)

No Housing in NDak. Plus if you've ever been there (Fargo?) it's freaking COOOOOOOLLLLLLLLDDDDDDD. (and the wind comes sweeping across the plain)

Texas? Sun, flat, dirt, sand, Sun, Mesicans, rednecks, Sun, sand, FLAT, (did I say Sun?) and cowboys.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (LSDdO)

198 Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away? Nothing. Lay back & enjoy it.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (CRyse)

199 California Democrat Barbara Lee denounced his "thinly veiled racial attack," adding, "Let's be clear, when Mr. Ryan says 'inner city,' when he says 'culture,' these are simply code words for what he really means: 'black.'"

Why is it that I don't know a single non-Democrat who is able to produce one of the codebooks with all these code words ? ... and I've asked them for a copy.

The Democrats have produced a "culture of racial paranoia." They need professional help.

Posted by: Andrew Beckett at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (e8kgV)

200 Witness the arrogant insanity of this fully operational socialist ideologue. 


"Of course socialism has never worked before!  It didn't work because people attempting us weren't us!  Bwahhhh  ha ha ha!"


Look how astonished these asshats were/are at the cheek of the Russians who would do what they did to Ukraine while THEY were in power.


Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (BZAd3)

201 Some patients are more equal than others.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (o3MSL)

202

They look fine. Do you think over time the cushioning has dried out? I am going to try them, but thought someone might have an idea.

 

--

 

If they are real leather and rubber, they should be fine.  Some of the faux stuff dries out over time.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (eoeps)

203 37 The Emanuels are among the most contemptible pieces of shit to ever soil this earth.

Agreed.  Where are the Squeaky Frommes of the world when we need them most??

Posted by: Zippy at March 21, 2014 09:37 AM (HFSaY)

204 what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away? Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (noWW6) Yoooooo hoooooo

Posted by: Helen Thomas's Maggoty Special Place at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (fWAjv)

205 163 It's amazing no one ever mentions how the DNC governs by surprise. Obama ran as Mr. moderate budget cutter. And boom, super lib.

Posted by: joeindc44 at March 21, 2014 01:32 PM (LEEQ+)


The media sold the product (a moderate Black president) and the people saw what they wanted to see. You and I knew different but we're racist/sexist/microagressive/heteronormative/insert epithet here.

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (RD7QR)

206 They look fine. Do you think over time the cushioning has dried out? I am going to try them, but thought someone might have an idea. ---- Most likely, but you should know right away. I just found an old pair of racing flats in my old room since my parents are moving. They were 20 years old. I thought cool, these are basically the minimalist shoes I wear now. Then the shoe just fell apart.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (gmeXX)

207 Of course nobody in the media decided that needed to be said. It wouldn't even have taken any work, just put a mic in front of the man. He's been happy to tell anyone that asks. Posted by: bonhomme at March 21, 2014 01:09 PM (P7Wsr) He's also said, he would just as soon put everyone on medicare. I would love to see some of the union members , teachers and UAW members for instance, have medicare substituted for the cadillac plans that they currently have.

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (bmaUl)

208 Texas. Come to Texas. Where winter is November to February and the rest of the year is frying pan hot summer.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (k/Mc/)

209 This is the sort of thing a detached and neutral media would have picked up on before the bill was made law, and certainly when it was an issue in subsequent campaigns wherein the law was at issue so that people could vote based upon their judgment as to whether or not the inevitable effects of the law were good or bad.

Also, I predict that the Left is going to pretend that this is no biggie because McCain and other Republicans in the past campaigned on the phase-out of the employer deduction for employee health insurance (the plan being to move health insurance from one side of the ledger to the other and replace it with cash compensation so that individuals could choose the plan that best met their needs).

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (nnkXw)

210 "Speaking of all plane all the time, I just got an email from Sirius that there's going to be a call in show to discuss it tonight. I am torn between horror and kind of wanting to listen.Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 01:21 PM"


Stick with Coast to Coast.  The crazy there spans more topics.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 21, 2014 09:38 AM (knoK7)

211 DON'T YOU PEOPLE KNOW THERE IS A PLANE MISSING IN MALAYSIA???? Another one? Because the last one isn't in Malaysia.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (CRyse)

212

Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away?

 

--

 

Close the porn window.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (eoeps)

213 Ol' Zeke's cut from the same cloth as Margaret Sanger and Peter Singer.

Oh and Josef Mengele.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (LSDdO)

214 Skilled and professional positions?

Both, but especially skilled labor. Drivers, mechanics, welders, etc. Had lunch with a client last week that owns a custom steel fabrication business. Their business has tripled in the last five years and they're scrambling to hire good people. I'm hearing this all across my client base right now - lots of jobs for people with skills.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (+lsX1)

215 This is at Breitbart: [...]'CHICAGOLAND' - CNN, ROBERT REDFORD PEN LOVE LETTER TO RAHM EMANUEL? Redford described both his show and his unabashed admiration for Mayor Emanuel to CNN recently to help promote the series. It's painful to see the disparate parts of a city where there's poverty, and there's crime, but that's not exclusive to Chicago. It's in every city. So I think it's important, rather than just dwelling on the negative parts. ... But let's see the other side of it. Let's see the more positive side, because it does exist. And put the two together, and then you get a complete picture of what a city is like. The famed actor also acknowledges his true feelings for the show's main character. Look, I have a high regard for Rahm Emanuel. It is not an easy job. To manage a city like Chicago with so many disparate parts to it is not an enviable task. I think that he is as qualified as anybody, but boy, it's like being the president of the United States.[...]

Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (RJMhd)

216 It is actually a good thing. Once that happens, maybe we can get rid of the employer tax dodge on the plans. A relic of regressive government price controls.

Posted by: astonerii at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (0xFeB)

217 Suddenly, we were all "associates." I think I hate that term worse.

What about "cast member" (Disney workers)?

At Microsoft the contractors are a- and vendors are v-.  So I've heard people use the phrase "dash trash".  When the FTEs are being nicer they'll call them CSGs (contingent staffing group).

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:39 AM (P7Wsr)

218 Wait, what? I've been an "at will" employee before. I still had paperwork describing my compensation package. Are you talking about day-laborers? Even McDonald's employees have paperwork describing their pay rate and what health care packages they can purchase.
Posted by: bonhomme


If you don't have a signed contract you're an at will employee whose compensation can be changed at any time, or you could be fired at any time.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (P1WNR)

219 Agreed. Where are the Squeaky Frommes of the world when we need them most?? Working for them.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (naUcP)

220 Say, since we're Hordesourcing medical advice starting in the previous thread, what again exactly do I do about this enormous cast iron schadenboner that just won't go away? Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (noWW6) 1) point it at nearest liberal 2) laugh 3) repeat #s 1 and 2

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (x3YFz)

221 12 One ring to rule them all and in single payer bind them.


Might want to get those exchanges workin

Might be tough sledding in the states that refused to implement them .
Georgia passed a law this week that states that " Obamacare stops at the state line".

Should I expect a Putinesque invasion and retaking of Atlanta which "historically belongs to D.C."?

Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (5ikDv)

222 And anyone who starts a business email with "Team," is immediately barred entrance to my zombie survival shelter. Is Fire Team ok?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (CRyse)

223 213 Ol' Zeke's cut from the same cloth as Margaret Sanger and Peter Singer. Oh and Josef Mengele. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 01:39 PM (LSDdO) ******** Well supposedly he's against legalized euthanasia --at least for now. (It's in his wiki!!)

Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (RJMhd)

224 Another one? Because the last one isn't in Malaysia --------- It's in Pakistan mother fuckers!!!!!!

Posted by: General McInerny at March 21, 2014 09:40 AM (Aif/5)

225 Well I'll give him credit for telling the truth, but that's about it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (nzKvP)

226 And anyone who starts a business email with "Team," is immediately barred entrance to my zombie survival shelter.

Posted by: Just some guy at March 21, 2014 01:35 PM (vgIRn)



There may not be an "I" in "TEAM", but I'm pretty sure MARX is in there!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (o3MSL)

227 Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 01:36 PM (noWW6) I predicted that was the End Game a couple of years ago... I fully expect the Retired Vets will get thrown into Obamacare... and Paul Ryan... that staunch defender of Ret. Military, will support it... (hell, it may be his idea...).

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (84gbM)

228 40--- He would happily kill patients. Does everyone realize that? He is no different from a Nazi doctor. Posted by: ejo at March 21, 2014 01:11 PM (GXvSO) --------------------------------- Actually, he has always been a staunch and active opponent of euthanasia/doctor-assisted suicide. He just wants to deny care to undesirables. He believes that, by opposing outright killing, it will be easier to establish totalitarian control over the health industry. Of course, there are ordinary Americans, like that stoopid snowbilly Palin, are not fooled and know a "death panel" even in its passive disguise. (You can bet Zeke was hysterical about that column she wrote. The rubes aren't supposed to understand this!) Incidentally, Mr. DeVille went to undergraduate school with Zeke. The guy is every bit as totalitarian and nasty as we think.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (dfYL9)

229 Texas. Come to Texas. Where winter is November to February and the rest of the year is frying pan hot summer --- March has been pretty cold this year. I'm coming around to enjoying this climate change thing.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (gmeXX)

230 All part of the plan to avoid the public employee pension tsunami. The more Boomer they can kill off sooner than later, the fewer pensions that have to be paid out. Along with Social Security and Medicare savings. It's all highly beneficial, unless you were born before 1965 and have an obstinate insistence on continued living.

Posted by: Epobirs at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (bPxS6)

231

"By his estimation, the proportion of private-sector workers who receive health care from employers will fall below 20 percent by 2025. Currently, just under 60 percent of private-sector workers get health care from employers"

 

Hopefully the fortunes of the Democrats will also follow this trajectory.  These people have shown themselves to be enemies of everything American, and anyone who votes for them is either mentally or morally deficient, and likely both.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (s0hlt)

232 DON'T YOU PEOPLE KNOW THERE IS A PLANE MISSING IN MALAYSIA???? Posted by: CNN at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (5ikDv) Yes.

Posted by: USS Palomino at March 21, 2014 09:41 AM (CTCNK)

233 "young shirtless and brave Rahm Emanuel as he faced down Neo Nazis"-- they had footage of that. *GAG* Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 01:34 PM (RJMhd) He doesn't like competition.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:42 AM (bb5+k)

234 Speaking of shouting from rooftops I first read that as shooting. Sheesh.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:42 AM (CRyse)

235 They look fine. Do you think over time the cushioning has dried out? I am going to try them, but thought someone might have an idea.

I don't know about dried out, but the rubber has probably broken down.  I had some Ecco shoes that were in storage for about ten years and after walking around in them for a day big crumbly chunks of rubber started falling off of the soles.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:42 AM (P7Wsr)

236 This thread is depressing. Blegh. TFG is a SCOAMF

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 09:43 AM (GSIDW)

237 No it's VOTING from the rooftops, gardening from the lamp posts...

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at March 21, 2014 09:43 AM (vHRtU)

238 Heh heh: The Chinese leader welcomed Michelle to his country saying, “I wish to thank the US side for sending such a heavyweight ambassador to China.” Who knew the Chinese were so good at snark?

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:43 AM (7ObY1)

239 180 We all knew single payer was the end game. It's been said before, but can't be said enough , the incompetence and fecklessness of Obamacare is purposeful. Anyone who is gobsmacked by this travesty is either ignorant or disingenuous, or a Leftie, but I repeat myself. Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 01:34 PM (fR6i You let an idiot run things and of course they are going to get messed up. No need to claim he is a diabolical genius, "Idiot" will do just fine.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 21, 2014 09:43 AM (bb5+k)

240 Even McDonald's employees have paperwork describing their pay rate and what health care packages they can purchase.

Seriously? A description of benefits is not a contract.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 09:44 AM (+lsX1)

241 It is actually a good thing. Once that happens, maybe we can get rid of the employer tax dodge on the plans. A relic of regressive government price controls.

Posted by: astonerii at March 21, 2014 01:39 PM (0xFeB)



Nothing done by Democrats/Socialists can be a good thing.  They always have a buried Plan B catch-all ready to go, and it is never good for the proletariat/workers.  It is usually pretty good for the important Party officials, however.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 09:44 AM (o3MSL)

242 If you don't have a signed contract you're an at will employee whose compensation can be changed at any time, or you could be fired at any time. Posted by: Dr Spank at March 21, 2014 01:40 PM (P1WNR) Yup. To an ex military guy, this is so so cool. It means I can be shitcanned at any point for no other reason than Reasons. Also, it means I can drop off my security badges, sign my NDA and rip off a fart as I walk out the door in about (thinking.... how long did that take me last time?...) 10 minutes. Freedom. Best part was when my boss... er... former boss, called me at 3 PM (I dumped my shit at noon) and was all flailing about raging over exit interviews. I laughed and hung up. That day was fucking. Golden.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:44 AM (x3YFz)

243 No Housing in NDak. Plus if you've ever been there (Fargo?) it's freaking COOOOOOOLLLLLLLLDDDDDDD. (and the wind comes sweeping across the plain)


Have RV, will travel. I'll just winterize the damn thing and drink my way through winter. (This is a fantasy, by the way; wife's kin are all here and some of them need help from us.)

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 09:44 AM (RD7QR)

244 Following Putin's lead, India should invade Pakistan, China should invade Taiwan and Australia should invade New Zealand.

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 09:44 AM (GSIDW)

245 Just finished the podcast - great job this week, guys. Keep it up.

Posted by: a random lurker at March 21, 2014 09:45 AM (Rppij)

246 O/T - If you ever wondered whether a snake can, in the dark, distinguish a golf ball from a chicken egg? Here's your answer! http://tinyurl.com/o3twe4z And an x-ray of the unfortunate serpent: http://tinyurl.com/p4z2kk3

Posted by: Brother Cavil at March 21, 2014 09:45 AM (naUcP)

247 So if I understand things, Zeke doesn't support euthanasia, but leans to the ice floe/ chunk of blubber or bag of corn/ by the side of the trail method of healthcare for the sick or elderly....

Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 09:45 AM (FzKdW)

248 Actually, he has always been a staunch and active opponent of euthanasia/doctor-assisted suicide. He just wants to deny care to undesirables. *** I didn't kill him, he died on his own, without any help from me.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 09:45 AM (DmNpO)

249

Once that happens,
maybe we can get rid of the employer tax dodge on the plans. A relic of
regressive government price controls.

 

---

 

I have a better idea.  Replace the income tax with a consumption tax    to get rid of all of the distortions.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (eoeps)

250 “My boss, my friend Barack Obama, is an incredibly patient man,” Biden continued. “I suggested, after going through the first couple weeks, I would nominate him for sainthood … that he kept his patience.”

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (fWAjv)

251 Seriously? A description of benefits is not a contract.

Even if the employee and employer sign it?  I'm not talking about a pamphlet.  Eh, you guys probably know more about it than I do. 

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (P7Wsr)

252 213 Ol' Zeke's cut from the same cloth as Margaret Sanger and Peter Singer.

And Kim Il Sunger.

Posted by: Zippy at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (HFSaY)

253 It's all highly beneficial, unless you were born before 1965 and have an obstinate insistence on continued living.

Posted by: Epobirs at March 21, 2014 01:41 PM (bPxS6)



So the Dems understand economics after all, it's just that they choose a very sub-optimal solution for a considerable portion of the masses.



Here have a blue pill!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (o3MSL)

254

Do you have a couch? Or maybe a toaster?

 

Yeah, the toaster.  You totally want the toaster.

Posted by: The Chicken at March 21, 2014 09:46 AM (JtwS4)

255 This seems like a good time for another posting from "The Prisoner" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcaxlxgnvf0 I did not sign up for Obamacare; I am not going to sign up for Obamacare and if they lock me up I won't have to visit those in prison because I'll already be there.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:47 AM (XyM/Y)

256 And I would bet the farm that the "big blue-chip companies," who are all on the government teat and/or Obama's campaign, will wait to end their health insurance programs until AFTER the 2014-16 elections.

Posted by: pj at March 21, 2014 09:47 AM (ZWaLo)

257 "Free benefits" at a fast-food job: Free uniforms (you pay to wash them) 5% off employee meals only on meals purchased while working, not valid on meals over $5.00 Comprehensive training (on how to dip that fry basket in the vat) One week vacation for full time employees who have completed 5 years of service 1/2 off bus tickets to the emergency room if you cut your hand off in the bun slicer.

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 09:47 AM (7ObY1)

258 Reached for comment after clearing his entire weekend schedule to watch the NCAA tournament, President Obama said, "Fundamental transformation, bitches. fundamental transformation."

Posted by: miked at March 21, 2014 09:48 AM (xaIQZ)

259

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 01:33 PM (XyM/Y)

 

I think that Ezekiel also foresaw this whole Maylaysian plane thing

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:48 AM (3ZtZW)

260 It's all highly beneficial, unless you were born before 1965 and have an obstinate insistence on continued living. I was & I do. However, don't tempt me to take a few with me when I go......

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:49 AM (CRyse)

261 Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 01:44 PM (x3YFz) My favorite??? I was teaching Network Engineering for a company in Denver.... it got bought out and new owners killed it... I was the Senior Instructor... who had hired the others.... but then demoted when new management came it. As the company failed... I was the FIRST instructor laid off, even though I was senior... As soon as I was gone, EVERY other instructor started looking for other work... company folded 2 months later... Funny part? Before they laid me off, they hired a guy to do a Security assessment of their internal Network... and lock it down... change passwords and such... Why? I was the one who had run that network for years.... Problem? They guy they hired to do it??? Was a friend of mine going through a divorce, and was LIVING with me at the time.... /DOH

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:49 AM (84gbM)

262 They told me if I voted for Romney, businesses     would  cut benefits to their employees to protect their   bottom line... and I was right!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 21, 2014 09:49 AM (4df7R)

263 255 This seems like a good time for another posting from "The Prisoner" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcaxlxgnvf0 I did not sign up for Obamacare; I am not going to sign up for Obamacare and if they lock me up I won't have to visit those in prison because I'll already be there. Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 01:47 PM (XyM/Y) Hi Fenelon. I might see you, you know, because.... I'd try to spring you though...

Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 09:50 AM (FzKdW)

264 76 Ekekiel is a utilitarian. But he is useless. Therefore, he should commit suicide.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 21, 2014 09:50 AM (xSegX)

265 "But now Mr. Emanuel thinks that a number of well-known national companies will break the mold and begin a trend."

I like the way he ignores a dynamic job market.  Shit like people leaving those companies to work at companies that do provide insurance.  Those companies will get the cream of the crop.  People will work for less just to avoid the Obamacare nightmare.  Everything is always a static market with the left because they can't think beyond one step away from their face.

Posted by: Dang at March 21, 2014 09:50 AM (MNq6o)

266 Fucking evil pricks.

Posted by: Y-not feeling teh h8 at March 21, 2014 09:50 AM (zDsvJ)

267 #247

He's as homicidal as any leftist. He just doesn't want to get his own hands dirty. That would be icky.

Posted by: Epobirs at March 21, 2014 09:51 AM (bPxS6)

268 Ekekiel is a utilitarian. But he is useless. Therefore, he should commit suicide. Assisted works.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:51 AM (CRyse)

269 I have a better idea. Replace the income tax with a consumption tax to get rid of all of the distortions.

I'd like to see a 10% Federal flat tax on all earnings above $15K.  Peg that $15K to real inflation.

No other Federal fees.  Zero.

States limited to 10% sales tax.  No other fees or bonds. 

No gov't employee compensation packages backed by promises.  401k style only.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:51 AM (P7Wsr)

270 These Obamamites really love their religious allusions don't they? Pelosi thinks Obama has the patience of Job and Biden thinks Obama deserves sainthood.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:51 AM (XyM/Y)

271 244 Following Putin's lead, India should invade Pakistan, China should invade Taiwan and Australia should invade New Zealand. Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 01:44 PM (GSIDW) And Mexico should invade Texas??? Hmmmm..... don't think that's such a good idear...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 09:51 AM (84gbM)

272 Dammit, quit being distracted with thoughts of the porn star back on campus and get your heads in the game!

Posted by: Coach K at March 21, 2014 09:52 AM (XMDuf)

273

A part of the problem with the costs of healthcare is that there's huge disconnect between those that use the service and those that pay for it. If more people were to pay their own healthcare bills, there would be a huge drop inb the cost of healthcare. The market will find a way.
If your auto insurance covered oil changes, would you shop for the best value?
Obamacare is the wrong way to do it but it needs to be done.

Posted by: Max Entropy at March 21, 2014 09:52 AM (cgtTL)

274 Moving from DO NOT TREAT to KILL is actually pretty easy. Robert Lifton's book The Nazi Doctors shows how a solid majority of physicians slid down that slippery slope. We are not special snowflakes who have so much moral traction on our butts that we can't also slide into great evil.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 09:52 AM (dfYL9)

275 And Mexico should invade Texas??? Psssssst. They already are......

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 09:53 AM (CRyse)

276 This seems like a good time for another posting from "The Prisoner"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcaxlxgnvf0

I did not sign up for Obamacare; I am not going to sign up for Obamacare and if they lock me up I won't have to visit those in prison because I'll already be there.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke

Ya know,  about 30 grand will put you in the seat of your very own "Prisoner" Lotus 7 replica made from a Mazda Miata...

Posted by: Dang at March 21, 2014 09:53 AM (MNq6o)

277 Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 01:50 PM (FzKdW) Thanks, Tubal. Much appreciated.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (XyM/Y)

278 Someone should catalog all the lies that it took by the Ogabe Administration to get this steaming pile of turd called Obamacare passed.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (8ZskC)

279 #253

Only in the sense that they can always come up with a destructive ham-fisted solution to a problem that was created by their previous destructive ham-fisted solution.

Posted by: Epobirs at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (bPxS6)

280 Everything is always a static market with the left because they can't think beyond one step away from their face ----- Which is why I am surprised when people on this board claim that if employers don't provide health insurance, they will just pocket the difference. This simply ignore market dynamics. Obviously some employers would try to pocket it, but eventually the market will cause those savings to be passed on to someone, such that we benefit in some way, either as an owners, consumer or employee.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (gmeXX)

281 We should invade Mexico. We're already dealing with all their problems anyway.

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (GSIDW)

282 5% off employee meals only on meals purchased while working, not valid on meals over $5.00

I didn't work fast food, but a buddy of mine worked at Wendy's.  He got one free burger per shift, and an ice-cream cone.  His manager told him he was the only one that made sure to get that every time.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (P7Wsr)

283 153 Yup. When you've gutted out the middle class, you're left with socialism. Remember Rev. Wright railing against 'middle-classness', that was the tell for me about The One.

Posted by: flmom at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (nSjrf)

284 "It is actually a good thing. Once that happens, maybe we can get rid of the employer tax dodge on the plans. A relic of regressive government price controls."
______________

Actually no, it's not, since the plan has been for employers to dump their employees into Obamacare exchanges by paying the employer penalty and without corresponding wage increases to the employees to purchase their own plans.

Then tens if not hundreds of millions more people will be in the predicament of favoring more funding (via tax dollars) to improve Obamacare (since it's the only "insurance" they can afford) and then it's stuck in place forever.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 21, 2014 09:54 AM (nnkXw)

285 There may not be an "I" in "TEAM", but I'm pretty sure MARX is in there!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 01:41 PM (o3MSL)


Ahhh, but there is an "I" in "TEAM."


http://tinyurl.com/c4do92v

Posted by: Country Singer at March 21, 2014 09:55 AM (L8r/r)

286 On behalf of Zeke Emmanual I will instruct my attorneys to pursue anyone who reports his words.

Posted by: Kathleen Kane at March 21, 2014 09:55 AM (F58x4)

287 If more people were to pay their own healthcare bills, there would be a huge drop inb the cost of healthcare.  Posted by: Max Entropy

That was the idea behind Healthcare Savings Accounts.  Which were outlawed by Obamacare.

Posted by: Dang at March 21, 2014 09:55 AM (MNq6o)

288 Posted by: Dang at March 21, 2014 01:53 PM (MNq6o No doubt it will come in quite handy to tool around the various stalags. ;^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 09:56 AM (XyM/Y)

289 A part of the problem with the costs of healthcare is that there's huge disconnect between those that use the service and those that pay for it. I -- This

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 09:56 AM (GSIDW)

290

Remember Rev. Wright railing against 'middle-classness'

 

--

 

Middle class is Marx's bourgeois - the apple doesn't fall far.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 21, 2014 09:56 AM (eoeps)

291
It is already obvious that cancer treatment under obamacare will be only for the elite.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 21, 2014 09:56 AM (0Kobm)

292 Actually no, it's not, --- Its a good think in general, but obviously not in the way Zeke intends.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:57 AM (gmeXX)

293 /cleans rifle /glances at current events /grunts /continues cleaning rifle

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 09:57 AM (x3YFz)

294 Ahhh, but there is an "I" in "TEAM."
http://tinyurl.com/c4do92v

There's also a "me" in team.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:57 AM (P7Wsr)

295 "It is actually a good thing. Once that happens, maybe we can get rid of the employer tax dodge on the plans. A relic of regressive government price controls." *** What I don't get is that folks who would otherwise rail about an increase in personal taxes find it okay to raise taxes on businesses.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 09:57 AM (DmNpO)

296 It is already obvious that cancer treatment under obamacare will be only for the elite.


But everyone gets free rubbers and abortions!

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 21, 2014 09:57 AM (8ZskC)

297 Posted by: tasker at March 21, 2014 01:40 PM (RJMhd)

Yeah, too much paperwork and doctors and stuff.

Much better to use the Liverpool protocol or hand them off to a Hospice that's about to go bankrupt. They'll die soon enough.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 09:58 AM (LSDdO)

298 OK, death panelists, I gotta go get my laptop and get ready for this evening's gig. Y'all have fun and try not to trash the place, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit[/i][/u][/b][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:58 AM (0HooB)

299

I skimmed comments and saw a few above addressed this issue seriously.  So apologies if this is repetitious.

 

Govt. intervention (laws, tax code, state-level "regulation" and the inherent pathologies of existing policy-holder demographics that those build over time) is, in fact, just about the entirety of the problem.

 

There is nothing magic, alien, or special about health care services, that is, they can be produced, marketed, and consumed competitively, rationally, and in face when done so, as with all private goods, they will be supplied and consumed in the optimal fashion (over time, on average).

 

With the basic guard-rails of rule of law (preventing fraud, insuring performance of contact obligations), there is not much for the state (fed or other) to add to the picture.  R&D and other things sponsored by federal or state govt. is a separate thing, can add value, has a place, blah blah blah.  But totally irrelevant to supply & demand for most health care services.

 

So - "employer provided health insurance" is in itself an artifact of govt. intervention, starting with WWII expedients for defense contractors to compete for scarce labor, up through the 1973 act Phinn cited, and of course the multiple other disastrous interventions and distortions before/since.

 

So everyone's aim should be to "destroy" employer-provided health insurance - * as a favored/subsidized thing, that is*.  Note emphasis.

 

If an employer wants to provide employees with ponies, or helicopter lessons, or expensive Italian shoes - whatever - as part of their compensation, they should be allowed to. IT'S ALL MONEY, IT'S ALL COMPENSATION.  In the form of health insurance subsidies?  Fine.  Whatever.  Don't subsidize it.  Don't punish it.

 

As with EVERYTHING else, let the markets do their magic, and IF needed, do small targeted interventions to provide a true, modest "safety net". 

 

Not that I have much hope left (seriously), but the tendency to never, never analyze big important issues in serious, rational economically literate terms - especially "on the right" - is so depressing. 

 

This is not complicated.  And attacking the idiotic, destructive O-care changes should always be done by educating/implementing obvious common sense market approaches, and identifying how comfortable, familiar "uncontroversial" things like employer-provided insurance etc. are in fact at the root of much of the problem of cost and cost-shifting.

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 09:58 AM (afQnV)

300 It is already obvious that cancer treatment under obamacare will be only for the elite. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 21, 2014 01:56 PM (0Kobm) Not only cancer. Unless we can repeal this abortion, this is the beginning of the end of the American Health Care System and America in general.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (nzKvP)

301 But everyone gets free rubbers and abortions!

The rubbers are made by disgruntled feminists with no quality control on the product.

The abortions are done in a facility exempt from medical facility standards.

Yay?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (P7Wsr)

302 Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 01:57 PM (x3YFz)


Heh.  My weekend is actually going to involve winnowing winter wheat and putting it in mylar bags.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (L8r/r)

303 You wouldn't have so many health problems if you ate what I told you to eat.

Posted by: Moochie Does Beijing [/i] [/b] at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (5ikDv)

304 non-purist - your rational thinking is not needed in our government.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (gmeXX)

305

>>>Have RV, will travel. I'll just winterize the damn thing and drink my way through winter.

 

all work and no play makes joncelli a dull boy

all work and no play makes joncelli a dull boy

all work and no play makes joncelli a dull boy

all work and no play makes joncelli a dull boy

 

[continues]

Posted by: Bigby's Punch Bug Blue at March 21, 2014 09:59 AM (3ZtZW)

306 Obviously some employers would try to pocket it, but eventually the market will cause those savings to be passed on to someone, such that we benefit in some way, either as an owners, consumer or employee. Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 01:54 PM (gmeXX) You do realize that corporate profits are currently up... and that profit is being passed to it Senior Staff, and those who own stock... Not the employees, or the consumer... Market forces only work in a Free market... we currently have Crony Capitalistic forces and Regulations as a Force as well... which distort the market.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 10:00 AM (84gbM)

307 285 There may not be an "I" in "TEAM", but I'm pretty sure MARX is in there! Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 01:41 PM (o3MSL) Ahhh, but there is an "I" in "TEAM." http://tinyurl.com/c4do92v Posted by: Country Singer at March 21, 2014 01:55 PM (L8r/r) Years ago in a galaxy far far away, the local leadership decided spamming the walls with the motivational posters was a good plan, never realizing that all they do is piss people off. Walked by that one one fine day and there was a post it that said "there's no I but there's sure as hell a "ME" It stayed there until I got orders lol. Probably still there.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 10:00 AM (x3YFz)

308 If there is any silver lining to this monstrosity I think it is this - my 18 year old son is currently working at Mc Donalds and had his hours cut due to Ocare.  It has given me a real world opportunity to have long discussions with him about the strangulation of having government controlling people's lives.  He is really paying attention now to the world around him.

Posted by: Cheri at March 21, 2014 10:00 AM (G+Wff)

309 Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 01:58 PM (afQnV) Yep.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at March 21, 2014 10:00 AM (09o/X)

310 267 He's as homicidal as any leftist. He just doesn't want to get his own hands dirty. That would be icky. Posted by: Epobirs at March 21, 2014 01:51 PM (bPxS6) ---------------------- Back in college, when Zeke was forming his utilitarian philosophy, Mr DeVille asked him how he could go that direction, considering that Z was (at least at the time) a practicing Jew and strongly identified with his ethnic heritage. Z said the Nazi abuses and idiocy did not discredit medical utilitarianism itself. Their main fault, other than ACTIVE killing, was to make an IRRATIONAL choice of desirables and undesirables based on silly race theories rather than usefulness to society. THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE WHO WILL NOT SEE.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 10:01 AM (dfYL9)

311 I believe that once everyone takes a long, hard look at things, they will agree we need a free-market based healthcare system for all normal medical charges, paid through individual HSAs that are subsidized on a sliding scale. However, for catastrophic services, Medicare should be expanded in basically a government paid single payer system. This would include a death panel that would set limits on what the taxpayers would pay for based on factors like age, other ailments, success rate, etc. Above and beyond the government provided single payer care, individuals would be free to buy insurance for anything that the death panel deemed too expensive or of little value. We already pay for extraordinary procedures through taxes now, so without the benefit of a death panel, liberals will simply use the give-away mentality to keep promising eternal youth to everyone on the public dole. Let the Hitler comparisons beginÂ….

Posted by: jwest at March 21, 2014 10:01 AM (u2a4R)

312 "It is already obvious that cancer treatment under obamacare will be only for the elite.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk"

Yeah. What's with that pastor whose new Obamacare didn't cover chemo? WTF?

Posted by: pj at March 21, 2014 10:01 AM (ZWaLo)

313 Nonsense! Ve vas all Nazis during the var.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at March 21, 2014 10:02 AM (tmFlQ)

314 These assholes are not nearly as smart as they think they are.

Posted by: Javems at March 21, 2014 10:02 AM (nTgAI)

315 Actually market forces work all the time. Doesn't have to be some perfectly free market for the law of supply and demand to still operate. It's just the freer the market the more effectively market forces work.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:02 AM (ZPrif)

316 "However, for catastrophic services, Medicare should be expanded in basically a government paid single payer system. This would include a death panel that would set limits on what the taxpayers would pay for based on factors like age, other ailments, success rate, etc. " you are, indeed, a fuckhead.

Posted by: tangonine at March 21, 2014 10:02 AM (x3YFz)

317

And no, a thousand times NO - no Health Savings Accounts.

 

Folks, no matter how many marginal fixes and inventions you come up with to help counter the pernicious impact of state intervention in health care markets, the pathologies of such intervention will dominate.

 

No tax treatment of health care, period.  Let people make rational choices and allocations of resources within a competitive market with solid regulatory gurad-rails (fraud, not prescribing behaviors to consumers or producers beyond that).  

 

The addiction of "conservatives" to statist solutions is a (dark, depressing) wonder to behold.  Freedom is not a principle, it's a practical guide to getting the best results in society.  As stupid and malevolent and alien as POS like Emanuel are, their interventions are no worse in ultimate impact than "conservative" ones that seek to put band-aids on the whole pernicious structure of state-caused distortions, cost-shifting, subsidies, and welfare.

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 10:02 AM (afQnV)

318 The at-will paperwork we sign here basically says that we can quit at any time for any reason, we can be terminated at any time for any reason, we can have our job title/duties/compensation changed at any time for any reason.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 10:03 AM (Lo5Rt)

319 You do realize that corporate profits are currently up... and that profit is being passed to it Senior Staff, and those who own stock... --------- I said as much by including owners. Are senior staff not employees? ------- Market forces only work in a Free market... we currently have Crony Capitalistic forces and Regulations as a Force as well... which distort the market. ------ I agree completely. But that doesn't change the fact that if an employers cost of employment for an employee is lowered, some of that will go back to the employee in the form of higher wages (obviously this assumes all other things being equal - such as being able to charge the same prices).

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 10:03 AM (gmeXX)

320 Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 01:58 PM (afQnV) the problem comes from the Government picking winners and losers via who they tax, and why.. THAT is the power we need to take away from them... National Sales Tax... on EVERYTHING... flat... no sin taxes... no exemptions for products... Its the only way to get the Government out of the business of picking financial winners and losers.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 10:03 AM (84gbM)

321 test

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 10:03 AM (JtwS4)

322 "I fully expect the Retired Vets will get thrown into Obamacare... and Paul Ryan... that staunch defender of Ret. Military, will support it... (hell, it may be his idea...)."

I figure that about two-thirds of the establishment GOP would back a proposal to disenroll the retired military from Tricare.

As for Ryan, what a huge disappointment he turned out to be.

But also... given that Ryan was handpicked to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency by the Mittbot 3000, imagine how many other brilliant staffing decisions by the Mittbot we have been spared.

Clouds, silver linings, some assembly required.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 10:04 AM (noWW6)

323 Back in college, when Zeke was forming his utilitarian philosophy, Mr DeVille asked him how he could go that direction, considering that Z was (at least at the time) a practicing Jew and strongly identified with his ethnic heritage.
Z said the Nazi abuses and idiocy did not discredit medical utilitarianism itself. Their main fault, other than ACTIVE killing, was to make an IRRATIONAL choice of desirables and undesirables based on silly race theories rather than usefulness to society.

Unstated conceit: "I am perfectly rational, and were I in charge Utilitarianism would work just fine".

Which is the conceit of all of the deceivers.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 10:04 AM (P7Wsr)

324 test Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at March 21, 2014 02:03 PM (JtwS4) C - Next time show your work.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 10:04 AM (VtjlW)

325 Every market has crony capitalism and socialism to a degree. There's always some degree of corruption. Always some degree of abuse.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:04 AM (ZPrif)

326 Non-purist is right. Employer-provided health insurance is bogus. I'd rather just have the cash and spend it on a catastrophe-coverage plan, and doctor / clinic visits where needed. Nurse practitioners do most of the actual work anyway.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 21, 2014 10:04 AM (hFETg)

327 Late here, but that Emanuel guy is a creepy sumbitch. He freaks me out.

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (nTgAI)

328 Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 02:01 PM (dfYL9) Well that's a bit frightening.

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (fWAjv)

329 Posted by: Dang at March 21, 2014 01:50 PM (MNq6o)


Creative Democrats will enforce to-be-written mandates that say the only employer choices are from the Obama extra good government "qualified" plan.  Just becuse you are working, is no reason for you to have a say in your destiny.  After all, Mother Russia Amerikkka knows best!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (o3MSL)

330 97 But jobs are getting harder and harder to come by unless one lives in TX or the Dakotas. ---- Then why don't more people move there Are you really that dense or just trying to be an idiot??

Posted by: NativeNH at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (Q3hKm)

331 The rubbers are made by disgruntled feminists with no quality control on the product. The abortions are done in a facility exempt from medical facility standards. Use sheep intestines. Pro tip: Always remove from the sheep first.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (CRyse)

332 Between my legacy, Moo Moo's abortions and jwest's death panels, we'll have this health care thing sorted out in no time!

Posted by: Margaret Sanger [/i] [/b] at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (5ikDv)

333 Get that folks, everything is OK! God forgive me for what I want to have happen to these people. Posted by: Cheri at March 21, 2014 01:25 PM (G+Wff) Really? If, according to Biden, everything with Obamacare is just hunky dory, then why are they NOT going ahead with the employer mandate until 2016? Why are they granting waivers to the individual mandate, ya know, since everything with Obamacare is fine? Amazing that Biden can make dumbass remarks like this and no reporters call him on it.

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (bmaUl)

334 Atc "C-" Lol.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (hFETg)

335 And the natural tendency for corruption is to always rise, so it always has to be fought against.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:05 AM (ZPrif)

336 We are not special snowflakes who have so much moral traction on our butts that we can't also slide into great evil.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille

 

 

I've always thought about this for doctors that do abortions.  How do they square that with the Hippocratic oath?  First do no harm??

Posted by: Cheri at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (G+Wff)

337 You do realize that corporate profits are currently up... and that profit is being passed to it Senior Staff, and those who own stock...

Not the employees, or the consumer...

Management is taking advantage of the labor! Profits should be fairly distributed to the consumer!!

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (+lsX1)

338 Late here, but that Emanuel guy is a creepy sumbitch. He freaks me out.

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 21, 2014 02:05 PM (nTgAI)

 

This guy is how I picture satan talking

Posted by: The Jackhole at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (nTgAI)

339 Employer-provided health insurance SHOULD come to an end. Disconnecting health costs via tax subsidized employee benefits has resulted in insane medical costs.

Employer-paid health insurance3 should be replaced with the free market, coupled with charity hospitals, and a right for free market medical providers to ship welfare cases to charity hospitals.

Posted by: Kristophr at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (c6N69)

340 "What's with that pastor whose new Obamacare didn't cover chemo? WTF?"

Rest assured that my own new health insurance plan covers everything all the way down to new shoelaces.

Posted by: The Reverend Jeremiah Wright at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (noWW6)

341 Late here, but that Emanuel guy is a creepy sumbitch. *** An astute observation.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (DmNpO)

342 Then why don't more people move there Are you really that dense or just trying to be an idiot?? ----- Why is that not a rational question to the assertion that those are the only states where companies are hiring?

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (gmeXX)

343 Know what will be fun? When the employer drops the employee's health insurance and then doesn't compensate by raising the salary. Effectively making us all more poor overnight. My old employer actually put the cost of insurance on the paycheck. I’m sure it wasn’t the full cost, but it was enough to, on the private market, get a great insurance plan. Except, of course, that if I asked for the money rather than the insurance, the money became taxable, and after taxes it was only enough to buy a decent catastrophic plan. But if my employer had stopped giving us health insurance, most likely we would have had our “salary” increased, because that amount would no longer be deducted.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 21, 2014 10:06 AM (WX3R9)

344 "I fully expect the Retired Vets will get thrown into Obamacare... and Paul Ryan... that staunch defender of Ret. Military, will support it... (hell, it may be his idea...)." I figure that about two-thirds of the establishment GOP would back a proposal to disenroll the retired military from Tricare. As for Ryan, what a huge disappointment he turned out to be. But also... given that Ryan was handpicked to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency by the Mittbot 3000, imagine how many other brilliant staffing decisions by the Mittbot we have been spared. Clouds, silver linings, some assembly required. Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 02:04 PM (noWW6) If we don't get rid of obamacare in a few years there will be no Tricare of any kind. It will all get rolled into obamacare. Maybe the Military will get a special deal on the rates but obamacare just the same with the same shitty care. And make no mistake about it obamacare equals shitty care

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 10:07 AM (nzKvP)

345 Does starvation count as "active killing"?  Just trying to find the limits here.

Posted by: The Fellas In The T-4 Program at March 21, 2014 10:07 AM (8ZskC)

346 We are headed toward back-alley doctors' clinics.

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 10:07 AM (GSIDW)

347 And give the families of the undesirables $25,000 vouchers.

Posted by: No Jest at March 21, 2014 10:07 AM (Aif/5)

348 "Amazing that Biden can make dumbass remarks like this and no reporters call him on it."

They're not reporters. They're stenographers.

It's not a press corps. It's a fan club.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (noWW6)

349 Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 02:03 PM (gmeXX) Problem is that it is not happening right now. Wages are flat... while profits are up.... even in the face of inflation... The labor market is hugely distorted right now... due to government regulations (like O'care).... If ONE person stands up and says they want, and deserve a major raise? Unless they have a skill set or knowledge that is indispensable (and often that does not really matter either)... they are at the mercy of the company, because they ARE replaceable... There is no Loyalty running from the company, to the employee, in the modern workplace.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (84gbM)

350 Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 02:04 PM (noWW6)


The essential position of the entire political establishment towards retired veterans is "But what have you done for us lately?"

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (o3MSL)

351 Look, the planet has healed itself....what more do you people want?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (4twGa)

352 Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 02:01 PM (dfYL9)

He would've made a good Kapo.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (LSDdO)

353 Use sheep intestines.
Pro tip: Always remove from the sheep first.

How do you make a perfect sculpture out of a block of stone?
Simple, remove all the excess stone, what remains is the perfect sculpture.
--Michelangelo (paraphrase)

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 10:08 AM (P7Wsr)

354 C - Next time show your work. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 02:04 PM (VtjlW) You didn't use your red pen for that did you? Teachers at a British school are ditching the red ink. Under a new grading policy at Mounts Bay Academy in Cornwall, teachers will be marking students' papers in green instead. Why the colour change? Red, school officials claim, is "a very negative colour."

Posted by: RWC at March 21, 2014 10:09 AM (fWAjv)

355 Their plan also was to disarm us and confiscate all of our guns. How well did that work out for the MFs?

Posted by: Roy at March 21, 2014 10:09 AM (VndSC)

356 You do realize that corporate profits are currently up... and that profit is being passed to it Senior Staff, and those who own stock... Not the employees, or the consumer... Market forces only work in a Free market... we currently have Crony Capitalistic forces and Regulations as a Force as well... which distort the market. *** So, you have an issue with a business distributing its profits as it sees fit?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 10:09 AM (DmNpO)

357

jwest, I think that everything should start by returning "insurance" to ..... actual insurance.

 

Extraordinary procedures in medicine are not magic, they can be accommodated within a true insurance system.  Uh - that's what insurance is.

 

Actuarially-based business with a modest profit margin (competition) operating under normal anti-fraud regulation.  No reason - none - that "health" insurance would be any different than insurance for autos, drill rigs, or cruise liners.  They each have their own actuarial basis, reflected in premiums.

 

If the medical care system were actually run on normal insurance principles, the cost savings would be so huge (over today's mess) that a safety net for outlier situations would be easy to cover. 

 

And none of this is dogmatic, or "principled", or ideological (all terms that usually squawk "tribal socially-influenced group think self-ID" more than reason and experience and information).  It's as practical and indisputable as assuming water will run downhill when laying out an irrigation system.

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 10:09 AM (afQnV)

358 Did everyone see the picture of Michelle Obama at Drudge, greeting a Chinese official? He's I'm a dark suit and she's dressed in a red dress. Cannot be accidental.

Posted by: MTF at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (F58x4)

359 Catastrophic circumstances is what insurance -- note that I didn't say health care -- is for. Buy a catastrophic plan that kicks in at $10,001 of your medical expenses. People with existing conditions can be covered with a high-risk pool. Voila, no Medicare required (or desired).

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (RD7QR)

360 Obama sure likes to make casual jokes about terrorizing, killing, and auditing people he doesn't like. National Review ‏@NRO .@CharlesCWCooke on why #Obama's "IÂ’m more powerful than you, and, if I want to, I can kill you" jokes aren't funny. http://natl.re/1g8vQUu

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (ZPrif)

361 346 We are headed toward back-alley doctors' clinics.

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 02:07 PM (GSIDW)

 

Reminds of that scene in "Payback" when Porter is geting the bullets dug out of his back.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (DrWcr)

362 Isn't Zeke the one that believes in the "Complete Lives System."  Under 4 or five yo, die, over 50 yo, die.

Posted by: Infidel at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (cojT9)

363 The labor market is hugely distorted right now... due to government regulations (like O'care).... ---- I agree.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 10:10 AM (gmeXX)

364 We are headed toward back-alley doctors' clinics.

Don't forget that antibiotics are becoming useless.  We are returning to a time pre-antibiotic.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at March 21, 2014 10:11 AM (P7Wsr)

365 Market forces only work in a Free market --- That's what the Left always says to justify their socialism. They always say they like capitalism, just not "unrestrained capitalism". But the trick is there never is any perfect Free Market, so they never stop intervening to "fix" it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (ZPrif)

366
Whats with this Mercer team thinking they can screw up an already atrocious bracket?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (0Kobm)

367 Everyone's money is their money - to distribute as they in their illuminated wisdom, see fit.


So suck it, neanderthals!

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (BZAd3)

368 Isn't Zeke the one that believes in the "Complete Lives System." Under 4 or five yo, die, over 50 yo, die. *** You are only valuable so long as you are productive

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (DmNpO)

369 It's my understanding that many(if not most) Doctors take the oath.Not that keeping oathes and vows is a strongsuit these days.

Posted by: steevy at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (zqvg6)

370 Don't forget that antibiotics are becoming useless. We are returning to a time pre-antibiotic. -- Everclear!

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 10:12 AM (GSIDW)

371 Whats with this Mercer team thinking they can screw up an already atrocious bracket? Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 21, 2014 02:12 PM (0Kobm) My brackets are already in disarray so what the hell

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 10:13 AM (nzKvP)

372 So, you have an issue with a business distributing its profits as it sees fit? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 02:09 PM (DmNpO) No, but I do have a problem with the Government distorting the Labor market to the place where the worker has no power at all anymore. Everyone is afraid to even ASK for a raise in most places... because the normal threat of "I'll leave and find a better job' is not a realistic threat in most industries right now.

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 10:13 AM (84gbM)

373 369 Sorry should read "do not".

Posted by: steevy at March 21, 2014 10:13 AM (zqvg6)

374 346 We are headed toward back-alley doctors' clinics.
Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 02:07 PM (GSIDW)


This is why I keep saying that pretty soon you'll be able to get an abortion any time you want without spending a    cent,   but if you want to get your broken arm set you're going to have to visit shady back alley clinics on the   bad   side of town to keep from going bankrupt.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 21, 2014 10:13 AM (4df7R)

375 Antibiotics are both losing effectiveness and in short supply.

Posted by: steevy at March 21, 2014 10:14 AM (zqvg6)

376 If ONE person stands up and says they want, and deserve a major raise? Unless they have a skill set or knowledge that is indispensable (and often that does not really matter either)... they are at the mercy of the company, because they ARE replaceable...

People should always get a big raise when they say they deserve it like back in the good 'ol days.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 10:14 AM (+lsX1)

377 Old Zeke also mentioned that you really won't need a doctor. A local clinic with a nurse practitioner will be good enough for you.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 21, 2014 10:14 AM (O8oUu)

378

Well said, Kristophr (more concisely than I managed).

 

Folks, it's not that complicated.  Politically complicated or hard - OK.  But when the fix is so simple, and the benefit so galactic, it would be worth the effort.

 

But we're in today's America. So - forget it.  Basically.

 

Best we'll get is idiotic tweaks of the pernicious super-structure of state distortion and intervention (more HSAs!!).  Cuz being serious and smart to help yourself is not in fashion any more.

 

Posted by: non-purist at March 21, 2014 10:14 AM (afQnV)

379 wow what the hell is a mercer anyway?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 10:14 AM (nzKvP)

380 Look, the planet has healed itself....what more do you people want? To be left the fuck alone.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 21, 2014 10:15 AM (CRyse)

381 It's simply false that "Market forces only work in a Free Market". Supply and demand work even in hard-core communist nations. They just don't work very well.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 10:15 AM (ZPrif)

382 wow what the hell is a mercer anyway?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 02:14 PM (nzKvP)



A type of weasel.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 21, 2014 10:15 AM (4df7R)

383 No, but I do have a problem with the Government distorting the Labor market to the place where the worker has no power at all anymore. WE ALL DO Everyone is afraid to even ASK for a raise in most places... because the normal threat of "I'll leave and find a better job' is not a realistic threat in most industries right now. OVERLY BROAD GENERALIZATION, BUT YOUR POINT IS UNDERSTOOD. Capitalized just to highlight my response (not to shout). You seem to agree that regulations distort markets, but then state that if you lessen the cost of employeeing a person, those cost savings will not be passed onto employees.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 10:15 AM (gmeXX)

384 336---I've always thought about this for doctors that do abortions. How do they square that with the Hippocratic oath? First do no harm?? Posted by: Cheri at March 21, 2014 02:06 PM (G+Wff) ---------------------------- The vast majority of OB/GYN's, even those that are pro-choice, do not do abortions. It's too creepy. Docs no longer take the Hippocratic oath at most med schools. The H oath is either rewritten, or another one is substituted, or there is none taken at all.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 10:16 AM (dfYL9)

385 wow what the hell is a mercer anyway?<<<<<

A winner?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 21, 2014 10:16 AM (0Kobm)

386 Everyone is afraid to even ASK for a raise in most places... because the normal threat of "I'll leave and find a better job' is not a realistic threat in most industries right now.

Toothless threats are no longer being rewarded! Thanks a lot Obama.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 10:16 AM (+lsX1)

387 I protested against tricare from the beginning, but was called a right wing nut.  It was obvious where it was headed.

Posted by: Big Ben at March 21, 2014 10:16 AM (I5Htn)

388 "what the hell is a mercer anyway? Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 02:14 PM"

Fabric merchant.  Alternatively, one who merces.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (knoK7)

389 I hate all of these people.  I waffle between being optimistic thinking we can turn this ship around, to f*ck it, burn the whole mofo down.

Posted by: Infidel at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (cojT9)

390 OT
********Blood Pressure Warning!

"It's very rare that I have the opportunity to travel outside of the United States, and it's even more rare to have the opportunity to travel with three generations -- with my daughters, and with my mother"

- Mooch from her taxpayer funded junket to China with 26 + staffers

Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (5ikDv)

391 A local clinic with a nurse practitioner will be good enough for you.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 21, 2014 02:14 PM (O8oUu)


Actual MDs are too busy taking care of Party Officials comrade, but there's a pretty good vet down the street!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (o3MSL)

392 My old employer actually put the cost of insurance on the paycheck. I’m sure it wasn’t the full cost, but it was enough to, on the private market, get a great insurance plan. Except, of course, that if I asked for the money rather than the insurance, the money became taxable, and after taxes it was only enough to buy a decent catastrophic plan. But if my employer had stopped giving us health insurance, most likely we would have had our “salary” increased, because that amount would no longer be deducted. Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 21, 2014 02:06 PM (WX3R9) Oh I hate it when the cost of insurance is on someone's paycheck. Why? Child support calculations. More than once opposing counsel has insisted that amount must be considered income, since it's on the paycheck and all, and no amount of, no, no it's not will work. Of course, last time that happened, we said, sure, fine, no problem, that means we'll just include the entire amount of the health insurance on the worksheet, not the actual amount that our client pays. Oh. Oh, what's that? You suddenly agree that we're correct to not include that since it means your client has to pay $250 more a month. Okay then. *dons bib in preparation for delicious Duke tears*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (VtjlW)

393 358 Did everyone see the picture of Michelle Obama at Drudge, greeting a Chinese official? He's I'm a dark suit and she's dressed in a red dress. Cannot be accidental.

Posted by: MTF at March 21, 2014 02:10 PM (F58x4)


The East is Red, the Moons are Huge

Posted by: joncelli at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (RD7QR)

394 It's a fan club.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 21, 2014 02:08 PM (noWW6)



That would explain the Obama Ears hats with their names embroidered on that they all wear.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 21, 2014 10:17 AM (L8r/r)

395 Actual MDs are too busy taking care of Party Officials comrade, but there's a pretty good vet down the street!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 21, 2014 02:17 PM (o3MSL)

 

As long as he keeps me in Ketamine, I'll be just fine.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 21, 2014 10:18 AM (DrWcr)

396 357 "jwest, I think that everything should start by returning "insurance" to ..... actual insurance." I agree totally. Insurance is something to have for a non-expected event, which leave us paying cash (out of our individual Health Savings Accounts) for normal items. For catastrophic illness or injury, I recognize that the largest group are people already on Medicare - the elderly. The next largest group are on Medicaid - the poor. Then come the veterans. These three groups make up the vast majority of all catastrophic care and it's handled through government single payer. The only ones outside of these groups are us. Working people well off enough to have private insurance but who rarely, if ever, use catastrophic care while we are still privately insured.

Posted by: jwest at March 21, 2014 10:18 AM (u2a4R)

397 Then why don't more people move there Are you really that dense or just trying to be an idiot?? Look pal, you started this shit so let me finish it. I am a white collar professional in the import-export business. My job requires me to work in or very near to a major US port of arrival. NDAK has a few very minor land border ports. Not what I do. I'm in ocean imports. TX has one major seaport, Houston, which is not even close to my first choice of a city to live in, in TX. I have to live by a major port or I don't work, period. I am not dense and I am not an idiot. I have an education and a license to do what I do. I am not able to just pick up and move wherever I want to move. Unless I want to be an unemployed leech on society. Which I do not want to be. This does not make me dense or an idiot. You want to take this further, or just admit you're calling people names without knowing a goddam thing about them or what they do for a living?

Posted by: Citizen X at March 21, 2014 10:18 AM (7ObY1)

398 341 Late here, but that Emanuel guy is a creepy sumbitch. *** An astute observation. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 02:06 PM (DmNpO) This is dated but..... "He has dead eyes, black, like a doll's eyes..."

Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 10:18 AM (EvEIZ)

399 "A type of weasel.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit at March 21, 2014 02:15 PM"

That this wasn't the first phrase to come to mind tells me I've been away from the blog too long. 

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 21, 2014 10:19 AM (knoK7)

400 Question (because as a worker drone I only know things from my POV) What would be the incentive for an employer to *not* keep the compensation afyer they no longer have to pay an employee's insurance? Especially if that company is running in the red? In layman's terms?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at March 21, 2014 10:19 AM (jlm/B)

401 People should always get a big raise when they say they deserve it like back in the good 'ol days. *** Ahem. UAW ‏@UAW 15m Breaking News: Reg. 21/NLRB determines contract port truck drivers are employees & have right to form a union! http://t.co/YmQuzBCFk1

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 10:19 AM (DmNpO)

402 This is dated but..... "He has dead eyes, black, like a doll's eyes..." *** Dated? Yes. But, it never gets old.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 21, 2014 10:20 AM (DmNpO)

403 The problem I see with untying health insurance from the employer is that most of us will not be receiving a subsidy of any kind from the government to be able to pay for the $15,000 family plan that covers nothing.  Is anyone's employer going to give their employees a $15,000 increase in salary to cover that?  My insurance benefit package is paid for by my employer, what happens when it's not?  I don't have an extra $15,000 in my budget to pay for insurance that won't cover anything I need it for and it would be like taking a $15,000 cut in pay with no subsidy.

Posted by: jaimo at March 21, 2014 10:20 AM (9U1OG)

404 >Did everyone see the picture of Michelle Obama at Drudge, greeting a Chinese official? He's I'm a dark suit and she's dressed in a red dress. Cannot be accidental.

She's rocking some serious shelf ass in that picture.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen, Freelance Warlord at March 21, 2014 10:21 AM (ZWvOb)

405 Supply and demand work even in hard-core communist nations. They just don't work very well. More specifically, they take the form of corruption and the black and grey markets.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 21, 2014 10:21 AM (WX3R9)

406 I protested against tricare from the beginning, but was called a right wing nut. It was obvious where it was headed. Posted by: Big Ben at March 21, 2014 02:16 PM (I5Htn) ??? Why? What are you talking about?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 21, 2014 10:21 AM (nzKvP)

407 What would be the incentive for an employer to *not* keep the compensation afyer they no longer have to pay an employee's insurance? Especially if that company is running in the red? In layman's terms?

What would be your incentive to stay after having your compensation reduced? What's that you say? You have no other options? See, that's the problem. You're not owed a job or a certain standard of living. Make yourself indispensable, or at least valuable, and you won't have a problem.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 21, 2014 10:21 AM (+lsX1)

408 Why is that not a rational question to the assertion that those are the only states where companies are hiring? Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 02:06 PM (gmeXX) It's pretty hard to imagine everybody in the USA is just going to pull up stakes and move to TX and the ND. The company I work for paid $6,000 and change to insure me last year Box DD on your W-2. They will be fined $2000 if they don't insure me (sometime in future) they could save themselves $4000 , it would cost me probably about $6000 to have health insurance . I'm 61 established here, who's going to hire me ?

Posted by: NativeNH at March 21, 2014 10:22 AM (Q3hKm)

409 You want to take this further, or just admit you're calling people names without knowing a goddam thing about them or what they do for a living? --- I never called anyone dense or an idiot. I understand there are many reasons why people may not want to move somewhere. But for those having trouble finding a job, it may be time for them to move to a location where people are hiring. That is a very rational thing to do.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 10:22 AM (gmeXX)

410 345--- Does starvation count as "active killing"? Just trying to find the limits here. Posted by: The Fellas In The T-4 Program at March 21, 2014 02:07 PM (8ZskC) ---------------------- Starvation of someone who can't feed himself is considered passive killing, i.e., withholding "treatment." (See Terry Schiavo....but remember that, even if Schiavo really was a veggie, most people who need feeding tubes aren't. But Zeke thinks you can starve them too.)

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 10:23 AM (dfYL9)

411 What is this free market thing I hear some talking about?

Posted by: Big Ben at March 21, 2014 10:24 AM (I5Htn)

412 "What's with that pastor whose new Obamacare didn't cover chemo? WTF?"

Rest assured that my own new health insurance plan covers everything all the way down to new shoelaces."

Hey Rev, your daughter can help you with the rest. She has lots of money!

I saw Michey with her red dress and her no reporters...and I thought, is she there to beg for help for hubby in his pissing match with SuperVlad?

Posted by: pj at March 21, 2014 10:24 AM (ZWaLo)

413 I'm going with dense

Posted by: NativeNH at March 21, 2014 10:25 AM (Q3hKm)

414 Fuck, Duke lost. If those fucking Tar Poots win tonight we'll never hear the end of it. That's going to fuck up a lot of brackets.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 10:26 AM (0FSuD)

415 BTW,  everyone - Nood!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit [/u][/i][/s][/b] at March 21, 2014 10:26 AM (4df7R)

416 414 Fuck, Duke lost. If those fucking Tar Poots win tonight we'll never hear the end of it. That's going to fuck up a lot of brackets. Posted by: Nip Sip at March 21, 2014 02:26 PM (0FSuD) ----------------- Yeah. Phooey.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 21, 2014 10:27 AM (dfYL9)

417 I don't move right now from the Democratic People's Republic of Illinois because of nonmoveable family members. So, I am forced to endure Mordor. I could set them out along the road with some snacks, I suppose, and hope for the best. Nothing personal, of course.

Posted by: tubal at March 21, 2014 10:27 AM (LJaTq)

418 325 Every market has crony capitalism and socialism to a degree. There's always some degree of corruption. Always some degree of abuse. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 21, 2014 02:04 PM (ZPrif) Absolutely true. Human behavior will not allow below a certain point.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC #banbossy! at March 21, 2014 10:28 AM (dFOie)

419 Votermom:

Don't need back alley doctors. For the price of a plane ticket, you can get excellent and inexpensive healthcare in Thailand.

The more socialist this country turns, the less reason for sane people to stay here.

Posted by: Kristophr at March 21, 2014 10:29 AM (c6N69)

420 Few people are in the disgustingly smug category of Weiner and Schumer, but Zeke here is right there with them. Oozes self-importance and arrogance. Much like Barry himself.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at March 21, 2014 10:31 AM (9Bdcz)

421 tubal: People fleeing places like North Korea, or the old cold-war socialist republics, often had to make the same hard choices.

Posted by: Kristophr at March 21, 2014 10:31 AM (c6N69)

422 You seem to agree that regulations distort markets, but then state that if you lessen the cost of employeeing a person, those cost savings will not be passed onto employees. Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 02:15 PM (gmeXX) Because recent (ie 10 or 12 latest years) history shows that to be the case? Wages are not even keeping up with inflation in most industries. If you look at Average household, or aggregate household income... in constant dollar (even with the now bogus US government CPI, which is way lower than it actually is).... US Households have LOST income... Even as the Economy has expanded (GDP)...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 21, 2014 10:33 AM (84gbM)

423 Don't need back alley doctors. For the price of a plane ticket, you can get excellent and inexpensive healthcare in Thailand. -- That's fine for planned surgery; not so practical for an emergency heart bypass.

Posted by: votermom at March 21, 2014 10:33 AM (GSIDW)

424 Flatbush Joe:

Yes. But ultimately, you need to make the decision about what you are going to put up with.

Consider going where you and your money are better treated.

Posted by: Kristophr at March 21, 2014 10:33 AM (c6N69)

425 votermom: Truth.

If I had a serious heart condition, I might consider emigrating to where I can get proper emergency care.

Posted by: Kristophr at March 21, 2014 10:35 AM (c6N69)

426 Where are you planning to emigrate to, Kristophr?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 21, 2014 10:37 AM (XyM/Y)

427 Decoupling health insurance from employment is a good thing. Do you get you home owners or auto owner's insurance thru work? so why should you get health coverage that way? It's a hold over from FDR's price and wage controls during WWII, since benefits was the only mechanism by which employers could attract the best employees. Just remember to ask your employer for a bump in pay to offset the increased costs when they dump you into the exchanges. Now that part isn't so good, getting stuck in the exchanges.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at March 21, 2014 10:45 AM (1hM1d)

428 You seem to agree that regulations distort markets, but then state that if you lessen the cost of employeeing a person, those cost savings will not be passed onto employees.

Posted by: SH at March 21, 2014 02:15 PM (gmeXX)

______________________________

There's a difference between understanding how markets work, and assuming that people will act altruistically within a market system. It still stands that if my employer stops paying for my health insurance and instead pays an equal per capita penalty that is less than the cost of the health insurance, I've been made poorer by having my total compensation reduced. There's nothing that requires the employer to pay the difference to me or any other employee.

Many or most employers already see healthcare related spending as a millstone that's gotten way out of hand anyway.

So what is the net result in an Obamacare universe? Employers reduce costs, employees get poorer, and those who pay taxes will make up the difference until things find a new equilibrium (which is to say, higher taxes either directly, indirectly, or both for tax payers).

In contrast, past GOP plans were to phase out the employer healthcare deduction at a certain figure and give a corresponding credit to individual purchasers so that over time the tax advantages of employer funded insurance would be mitigated and people would purchase insurance policies that met their needs with corresponding costs, and giving employees the information and ability to negotiate compensation.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 21, 2014 10:47 AM (nnkXw)

429

"Mr. Emanuel expects the law to produce an unadvertised but fundamental shift in where most working Americans get their health insurance — specifically, a sharp drop in the number of employers who offer coverage to their workers."

 

 

I believe this because every other Democrat prediction about ObamaCare has come true thus far.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Buy Four Outrages, get a Rightous Indignation Free! at March 21, 2014 10:48 AM (hLRSq)

430 I loathe these people.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 21, 2014 10:52 AM (BAS5M)

431 Did he explain why the last several GOP presidential hopefuls have run with "de-couple insurance from employment" proposals, but no Dem has ever? . When in doubt, rewrite history .. it's the Progressive way! . Mew

Posted by: acat at March 21, 2014 11:26 AM (4UkCP)

432 Did he explain why the last several GOP presidential hopefuls have run with "de-couple insurance from employment" proposals, but no Dem has ever?
.
When in doubt, rewrite history .. it's the Progressive way!
.
Mew
___________________________

The GOP ran on the issue, and the goal was to move the cost and the funds from the employer side of the ledger to the employee side of the ledger, resulting in those people buying private insurance that suits them.

The Emmanuel plan is to force employees out of the private market and into exchanges.

See the difference?

Posted by: Alec Leamas at March 21, 2014 11:28 AM (nnkXw)

433 Whenever Duke loses, it's a good day as far as I'm concerned.  

Posted by: Jaws at March 21, 2014 11:43 AM (eKZp1)

434 Actually this may be a good thing. Employer-provided insurance is a relic of price and wage controls from World War Two. Since employers couldn't raise wages to attract workers, they added benefits like health insurance. That insurance was tax-free to the employer (it was a cost of doing business), and was tax-free to employees (it wasn't a cash payment to the employee). Win-win. Except that it meant that if you didn't get your health insurance from an employer, you paid for it with pre-tax dollars (it wasn't deductible). Moreover, it had the built-in problem of pre-existing conditions if you changed jobs. With an end to employer-provided insurance, the policy you take out yourself is portable, just like your car and fire insurance, and if you first sign on when you're healthy, the pre-existing condition problem goes away. You're qualified for life, so long as you stay with the same insurance company. We may even be able to make it tax-deductible. Breaking the link between employment and health insurance may be the only good thing to come out of ObamaCare.

Posted by: Joseph P. Martino at March 21, 2014 11:57 AM (BpsJI)

435 I agree with #434, having employer provided health insurance come to an end or be significantly more rare will be a good thing. That said, let's not pretend that Obama and his band of nitwits really planned or knew this was going to happen. And even if they did, they, get this, lied to get to that point. There have been conservative proposals out there where they wanted to end the significant incentives given to employer-provided coverage and/or provide the same incentives to people who buy it on their own. If you look at healthcare expenditure increases slowing from 2003 on and when the HSA Act was passed, they seem to have aligned. Additionally, if you require people to pay more for their own healthcare (as opposed to just having the health insurance pay for it) they, shockingly, become more judicious with their consumption. Employer-provided group plans with the low co-pays and deductibles means over-consumption of finite resource. Additionally, allowing the b.o. infested segment of the population to inundate the emergency rooms without paying a dime when they visit also doesn't work. What Obama and his band of nitwits don't understand is a basic supply and demand curve. Do things to lessen the demand, supply becomes more abundant and competition for the lesser demand, including competitive prices, becomes more realistic.

Posted by: Trich at March 21, 2014 12:17 PM (7wCmd)

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