February 12, 2014

Perfect: As Italy Continues to Hound Amanda Knox and Rafael Sollecito For a Brutal Murder They Didn't Have Anything to Do With, They Release Rudy Guede, The Actual Murderer, from Prison
— Ace

Incredible.

Let me explain what happened. Under pressure to solve a brutal murder quickly -- in a sleepy college town where such things were rare -- Italian prosecutors fixated early upon Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Rafael Sollecito as Meredith Kercher's murderers. They also thought a third man, a black nightclub owner with no criminal history, was involved, because Amanda had texted "See you later" to him on the night of the murder, but in Italian. Amanda worked at this guy's bar, and the night wasn't busy, so he had told her not to bother coming in, and she said "See you later," literally translating the English phrase.

They thought this literally meant "see you later," rather than "Until next time." Or as the Italians would say it, arriverdercci.

I say he's black because it's relevant. I'll explain later.

They interrogated Knox almost nonstop for three days, telling her that the killer was this black nightclub owner and they knew it, and that she was a coconspirator so why didn't she just admit it before she went to jail for life?

Finally, they asked her to envision what it would have been like to see this black nightclub owner at the murder scene, and she wrote out a statement speaking of herself "having a vision" of the man at the scene.

Case closed, they say in a dramatic press conference, in which very high ranking members of the Italian prosecutor corps and police are all flanking the main prosecutor. They then drive Amanda and Rafael around the town of Perugia, doing laps with them in the back of the squad car like Achilles dragging Hector behind his chariot, as the town cheers.

And bonus, they can lock up this black nightclub owner with no possible motive to kill Kercher and no history indicating he'd be interested in killing anyone at all.

Yeah one problem with that: The black nightclub owner was at his bar all night and at least nine witnesses could put him there all night.

So, the prosecutors decide their theory is still sound, but now they just need a different third man.

See, their theory has just been completely refuted, but no sweat, it just needs to be tweaked.

Well, after a few days, the DNA results from the crime scene come in. It turns out there's lots and lots of DNA at the crime scene. Unfortunately, not a speck of it is Knox's or her boyfriend's. Not. A. Speck.

However, there is a ton of DNA material identified as that of one Rudy Guede, a drifter with a prior background of breaking into homes for petty theft while armed with a knife (on a previous burglary, he merely warned the startled occupant of the home away with the knife, rather than killing him).

He only casually knew Amanda Knox because he occasionally played basketball with Knox's downstairs neighbors, some Italian boys. They had merely been present in the same room when the girls and Guede were watching tv with the downstairs boys.

Guede had murdered Kercher with a frenzied attack with the knife, and had cut himself on the hand with the blade (as happens). He had a cut on his hand when arrested. In addition, he apparently began to violate Kercher's body post-mortem, but was so put off by what a bloody ruin he had made of her he stopped. His skin cells were found inside of her, but no semen.

By the way, he fled Italy the day after the murder, before the murder was even known to have taken place.

While hiding out in Italy, and while being sought by police, someone asked him in a chat about Knox, who had been accused of the crime by then. "Amanda wasn't there," he had told this person. This chat was being monitored by the police, so they knew about it.

Now, when Guede was arrested, he claimed this story: That he had been having consensual sex with Kercher (thus explaining his DNA inside of her) when an intruder suddenly burst in and killed Kercher. Why Guede was not more wounded, I'm not sure. But as this white intruder left, according to Guede, he said something like "Ha ha, you're black, they'll pin this on you," and then this unidentified blitz-killer left, evaporating like a ghost, never to be seen from or heard of again.

He did not at this point claim Knox or Sollecito were present. Just this Racist guy who shows up to murder random women and then frame black guys for the crime. (And, by the way, who does not leave any physical evidence of his existence at the scene of a ferociously bloody attack-- only Guede's DNA was found there).

Now, if you're a rational person, at this point you understand that your original theory was flawed, and that only one man killed Kercher, and that man is the one who admits to having sexual contact with Kercher (but consensual, as of course he'd claim) and who has presented a fairly implausible scenario to explain why his blood is mixed in with Kercher's.

And then you'd apologize to Knox and Sollecito, and set them free.

But that's not what they did here. Here, they offered the actual killer a fast-track trial with a short sentence in exchange for his testimony claiming that Knox and Sollecito put him up to it.

And basically you'd just swap out this new black suspect, who is guilty, for the old black suspect, who was 100% innocent, as if your only problem in this case was misidentifying the black conspirator.

One black guy is as good as another, you know. I mean, come on. Who can tell them apart? Perfectly understandable mistake. It's barely even a mistake, really, when you think about it.

And then the actual killer would get sentenced to 16 years. And then he'd be release after just six years in prison.

Meanwhile, Knox and Sollecito have themselves already served four years in prison for a crime they had nothing at all to do with, and the Italian prosecutors and courts are hoping to put them into jail for longer.

So, the actual killer was just released; and two innocents continue to by hounded by a huge chunk of Italy's criminal justice resources.

And there you have it.

Incidentally... Douglas Preston and his writing partner and a gang of others including famed FBI profiler John Douglas have put out a short Kindle "single" on the case. It's 81 pages long, costs two bucks, or is free to borrow for Prime customers.

It's called "The Forgotten Killer." Their idea is that finally, after so much ink has been written about a girl who didn't commit the murder, perhaps someone should write a book about the man who did.

As far as "is it worth it:" I still think that the definitive work on this case hasn't been written. There are two good books about it: "Murder in Italy," by Candace Dempsey, which is a fairly straight true-crime account. Dempsey attempts to remain objective, and mostly succeeds, but she does sort of begin to signal, "What the hell is going on here?" She tries to remain reporterishly objective, but one can sense her increasingly strong skepticism about the case against Knox and Sollecito.

The other book isn't about Knox per se but is required reading because you'll find out so, so much about Italian justice in general and the prosecutor in this case in particular. That book is "Monster of Florence," by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi, and is probably the best true-crime book I've ever read.

This new book, the one on Kindle, is called "The Forgotten Killer," and it's decent, but basic. I really liked John Douglas' (the famed FBI profiler) explaining what he'd think of the evidence of the crime, and what sort of suspect it would point to. (A Guede-like suspect, it turns out.) But Douglas' analysis is actually retro-fitted, because he knows Guede did it (and Knox and Sollecito didn't).

Still, it was a great chapter.

I guess I'd recommend it to a newcomer to the case, who wants a short precis on it, but if anyone's really interested I'd suggest the double feature of first Monster of Florence, so the scene is properly set, and then Dempsey's Murder in Italy, to see what happens when two innocent people get fixated on by a crew of imbeciles who are willing to put innocent people in jail rather than just admitting something so easy to admit: Our initial hunches were wrong.

Well, I guess there's another reason they don't want to admit that: Amanda Knox says she was physically intimidated during her interrogation, which is why, she says, she broke down and wrote the "I have a vision of seeing" statement.

I suppose it might be dicey to concede she's entirely innocent, because then that raises some questions about how, exactly, that statement was procured.

Monster of Florence should be read on general principle, whether you care about any of this or not. I reviewed it here.

Both Murder in Italy and Monster of Florence also succeed in another area: conveying a sense of place. I like travelogue-ish books, and both deliver as far as giving you a feeling of what their respective settings are like.

Especially Monster of Florence.

Posted by: Ace at 01:28 PM | Comments (478)
Post contains 1621 words, total size 10 kb.

1 first?

Posted by: mallfly at February 12, 2014 01:30 PM (bJm7W)

2 The Italian version of Karla Homolka.

Someone who is guilty cuts a deal and skates.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:30 PM (4w7wl)

3 In before the Amanda Knox troll Architect aka Tom Sawyer.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 01:31 PM (LI48c)

4 sounds like Niefong and the Duke U case.

Posted by: mallfly at February 12, 2014 01:32 PM (bJm7W)

5 As long as they let the black guy go, I'm OK with the whole thing.

Posted by: Eric Holder at February 12, 2014 01:32 PM (DLu2s)

6

I'm sure someone will quote me soon.

Posted by: Some...not saying at February 12, 2014 01:33 PM (eCZwh)

7 If we had a real State Department this shit would not be happening.  The Italian ambassador would be expelled until this shit ceased.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 12, 2014 01:33 PM (T2V/1)

8 This was a very good summary. I actually read the whole thing. This is what would happen if Fredo clones ran the Italian judicial system.

Posted by: wooga at February 12, 2014 01:33 PM (LH6mp)

9 Well, after a few days, the DNA results from the crime scene come in. It turns out there's lots and lots of DNA at the crime scene.

I don't remember when, but they did find DNA from Knox at the scene.

In her bathroom, where the killer washed the blood off his hands. 

So, naturally: GUILTY, because there is no other possible explanation for finding her DNA in her own bathroom.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 01:34 PM (SY2Kh)

10 Stay out of Italy - duly noted.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Wrathful Grapes and Contemptuous Celery in the Produce Department! at February 12, 2014 01:34 PM (gmoEG)

11 Lesson: never visit Italy, ever.

Posted by: Null at February 12, 2014 01:34 PM (xjpRj)

12 What would Columbo do?

Posted by: Soothsayer says, "Er, one more thing." at February 12, 2014 01:34 PM (YWssJ)

13 A real blow to SMUG ... Toyota is recalling 1.9 million hybrid Prius cars globally for a software glitch that could cause them to stall. The company said Wednesday that 713,000 vehicles in North America were being recalled. No accidents or injuries have been reported related to the problem.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at February 12, 2014 01:35 PM (e8kgV)

14 Where's Vito Corleone when you need him!? This mamaluke's need to be kneecapped!

Posted by: Knightbrigade at February 12, 2014 01:35 PM (/fexR)

15 >>> I don't remember when, but they did find DNA from Knox at the scene. well that's not the murder scene, that's her bathroom. She and Kercher shared that bathroom.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 01:35 PM (/FnUH)

16

And yet nobody seems to understand this plain set of facts. I've heard at least two right-leaning talk radio hosts claim there's not a shred of evidence Knox didn't commit the murders.

 

(John Carlson and Lars Larson)

Posted by: bonhomme at February 12, 2014 01:36 PM (6RWea)

17 In many ways, this is also a story about Obama.

Posted by: Mark Murray at February 12, 2014 01:37 PM (yFb77)

18 I'll defend her for a triaxel of granite.

Posted by: schoolbus nagin at February 12, 2014 01:37 PM (WCnJW)

19 In before Ma Bell, who has 'friends in Italy' who say Knox is guilty.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 01:38 PM (bCEmE)

20 Can we just nuke Italy and get it over with?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (naUcP)

21 Is Amanda Knox involved with anyone right now?

Posted by: Bob Filner at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (yFb77)

22 So has anyone found a fact that supports the concept of a magic DNA scrubber that removed Knox's from the murder scene but left the real killer's?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (4w7wl)

23 well that's not the murder scene, that's her bathroom. She and Kercher shared that bathroom.

Right, but they did cite the DNA match from her bathroom as evidence of her guilt in the trial.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (SY2Kh)

24 The interesting thing here is that the way we look at this story is the same way the minority community looks at the Trayvon Martin case or OJ case, but in reverse. Note, I am not saying there is any factual equivalence between the two, but how they are perceived.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (TGgNi)

25 Note to self: Stay out of Italy.

Posted by: Chris M at February 12, 2014 01:39 PM (k3w9p)

26 Socrates, Jesus, Caesar, Amanda Knox. The Mediterranean has a lot of blood on its hands.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:40 PM (thBHI)

27 Wait, so it's either Samuel Jackson or Lawrence FishburneÂ…

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 12, 2014 01:40 PM (olDqf)

28 YEah...... THATS IT!!! Great Idea... it'll work I tells ya.... CSI: Italy.... but get this.... its a COMEDY! F'n Gold... I tell ya... GOLD!

Posted by: Hollywood Producer at February 12, 2014 01:40 PM (84gbM)

29

Note to self: if you want to kill someone, do it in Italy, then blame attractive girl and boyfriend.

FREEDOM IS YOURS.

Posted by: Ed at February 12, 2014 01:41 PM (p+4lN)

30 Or maybe it's just another excuse to get people to hate Italians for no reason. Who knows.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:41 PM (thBHI)

31 Alphonse Sharptoneone will lead a marchÂ…

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 12, 2014 01:41 PM (olDqf)

32 Those Italians are my heroes.

Posted by: Mike Nifong at February 12, 2014 01:41 PM (X3GkB)

33 And cue obsessed weirdo 5, 4, 3 ...

Posted by: weft cut-loop[/i] [/b] at February 12, 2014 01:42 PM (cxs6V)

34 32 Those Italians are my heroes. Posted by: Mike Nifong at February 12, 2014 05:41 PM (X3GkB) I thought they were grinders.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 12, 2014 01:42 PM (olDqf)

35 "Foreigners"

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 12, 2014 01:42 PM (IXrOn)

36 Note, I am not saying there is any factual equivalence between the two, but how they are perceived.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 05:39 PM (TGgNi)



note, that makes no f*cking sense at all.  Trayvonn was busy banging Zs head into the pavement when he got Killt.  Amanda Knox had no part in the Kirchner's death

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 01:42 PM (omBWL)

37 I heard that Amanda Knox was driven into a murderous rage by a youtube video.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at February 12, 2014 01:42 PM (+lsX1)

38 I used to tell people to just stay out of shithole countries. (meaning almost all but the USA) Then one surrounded me.

Posted by: irright at February 12, 2014 01:43 PM (Ze8oh)

39 And don't forget about how the Italian government prosecuted several geologists for failing to predict an earthquake as well as 23 CIA agents in absentia for kidnapping and kept a journalist in jail for just writing about the 'monster of Florence' case.

The Italian 'Justice' system seems to be capricious and unreliable and best avoided if at all possible. 

Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 01:43 PM (pAlYe)

40 There is nothing unusual about finding your DNA in your bathroom. I agree with the theory that Guede was a criminal informant. They caught him doing burglaries and released him.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 01:43 PM (6bMeY)

41 Italian lawyers, "xenophobic" power-hungry malefactors. Italian journalists, "xenophobic" malefactors and demagogues. American journalists, "xenophobic" malefactors and demagogues.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:43 PM (thBHI)

42 So has anyone found a fact that supports the concept of a magic DNA scrubber that removed Knox's from the murder scene but left the real killer's?

The Keystone Cops of Italy claimed to find DNA evidence all over the place, including a knife used by Knox and the victims bra clasp.

Upon independent review, most of it turned out to be bullshit.  There was either no DNA at all (the knife) or in too small an amount for a reliable match.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 01:43 PM (SY2Kh)

43 37 I heard that Amanda Knox was driven into a murderous rage by a youtube video. Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at February 12, 2014 05:42 PM (+lsX1) Ahhh..... crap.... not again....

Posted by: Still Jailed Video Producer at February 12, 2014 01:44 PM (84gbM)

44 39 The Italian 'Justice' system seems to be capricious and unreliable and best avoided if at all possible. Picky, picky, picky.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2014 01:44 PM (HVff2)

45 Ma Bell and Tom Sawyer won't argue the point until this post is two posts down, so they can get the last word in and win the Internet.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 12, 2014 01:44 PM (m5+rk)

46 I am not very conflicted. Points in favor of visiting Italy. FOOD. History. Points against. This shit.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 01:44 PM (7Iwef)

47 In before the Amanda Knoxtroll Architect aka Tom Sawyer. Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 05:31 heh.

Posted by: olddog in mo at February 12, 2014 01:45 PM (EKOIc)

48 Note to self: Take Amanda Knox with me the next time I murder someone in Italy.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:45 PM (YWssJ)

49 Lauren, fly into Leonardo da Vinci airport in Rome.  Grab a hotel in Rome.  But only tour the Vatican.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:45 PM (4w7wl)

50
Lemme guess.....

Judge Wop-ner.

Wooo hooooo...... the jokes...... dago over there heads......

Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2014 01:46 PM (nELVU)

51 and it must be said that Knox is very, very tasty.   so there's that.....

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 01:46 PM (omBWL)

52 >>>There is nothing unusual about finding your DNA in your bathroom. I agree with the theory that Guede was a criminal informant. They caught him doing burglaries and released him. i've heard that theory, too, that they were embarrassed at having released him so many times before, so that they tried to frame two other people. I don't buy it, because at first they had no idea Guede was involved. I think you're presenting a corrupt-but-reasonably-intelligent explanation for their actions, where I prefer a corrupt-and-also-laughably-stupid-and-borderline-insane theory.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 01:46 PM (/FnUH)

53 Lauren, its also culturally accepted for men to openly ogle pretty women.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 12, 2014 01:47 PM (6RWea)

54 "I agree with the theory that Guede was a criminal informant. They caught him doing burglaries and released him." Now THAT does make a lot of sense. It wouldn't look good for it to come out that the cops released someone who later brutally raped and murdered a foreign college student.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 01:47 PM (7Iwef)

55 Good Italian food is the Americanized kind. Authentic is meatless gruel.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 01:47 PM (6bMeY)

56 Trolls will start appearing at about 250 comments, or around 6:20 I figure.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 01:47 PM (LI48c)

57 I think you're presenting a corrupt-but-reasonably-intelligent explanation for their actions, where I prefer a corrupt-and-also-laughably-stupid-and-borderline-insane theory. So do I, paisano!

Posted by: Giuliano Mignini[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 01:47 PM (yz6yg)

58 I think you're presenting a corrupt-but-reasonably-intelligent explanation for their actions, where I prefer a corrupt-and-also-laughably-stupid-and-borderline-insane theory. This being Italy, you're probably onto something.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (naUcP)

59 Guede      tried     pulling a     Keyser Soze.

Posted by: Puncher at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (LhAqq)

60 There's one benefit to this nonsense.  Every time some jackhole who's never left the US except to go to Cancun for Spring Break decides to lecture me about how backwards the US is and why can't we be more like Europe, all I have to say now is "Amanda Knox."

Posted by: Peej at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (xYVem)

61 "Atheistic justice" and Statism are mostly about punishing people, and who gets punished isn't really all that important as far as the Will to Power is concerned. Projecting that onto a single country -- and always, "coincidentally" the same country -- and a very specific instance/Moral Panic seems peculiar.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (thBHI)

62 Boss Moss, you take that back.

Bella Napoli chain pizzas are junk.  But authentic local Italian c'est bella!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (4w7wl)

63 Someone call?

Posted by: vesuvius at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (m5+rk)

64 Oh come on, ace, you're acting like the Italian judicial system is so messed up it would convict scientists of manslaughter for failing to predict an earthquake or something.


Oh.  Wait. 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at February 12, 2014 01:48 PM (Gk3SS)

65 50
Lemme guess.....

Judge Wop-ner.

Wooo hooooo...... the jokes...... dago over there heads......

dont' forget the Italia tire.  Dago in rain.  Dago in snow.  And when dago flat, dago wop....wop....wop.

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (6TB1Z)

66 they released Guede so he could search for the real killers. 


Also to promote tourism from the Ivory Coast to Italy ( an underdeveloped market )

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (omBWL)

67 Good Italian food is the Americanized kind. Authentic is meatless gruel. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 05:47 PM (6bMeY) Depends on where you are really. Piedmont? Yeah. Bologna, not so much.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (yz6yg)

68 Maybe Van der Sloot did it.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (YWssJ)

69

You'd think that there might be some more important crimes for these prosecutors to go after.

 

But this one is like a 'Vanity Vendetta' for them.

Face must be saved...at all costs.

Posted by: wheatie at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (eCZwh)

70 Why do I get a funny feeling that the outcome of this case teeters on a pair of Bruno Maglis?

Posted by: Fritz at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (TKFmG)

71 Hmmmm.... Famous British Detectives? yep.... famous French??? Hercule Perot.... famous Chinese? Inspector Charlie Chan... American? Many... Can't seem to think of any famous Italian Detectives.... except maybe Columbo? (who was really American)...

Posted by: Still Jailed Video Producer at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (84gbM)

72 Can we all get a dozen donuts, a cappuccino and get along?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 12, 2014 01:49 PM (HVff2)

73 " Lauren, its also culturally accepted for men to openly ogle pretty women." Hmm, is this a point for or against?

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 01:50 PM (7Iwef)

74 55 "Good Italian food is the Americanized kind. Authentic is meatless gruel." No, fucking A, no.  One thing you cannot criticize the Italians for, or the French for that matter, is food.  It is awesome there.

Posted by: Peej at February 12, 2014 01:50 PM (xYVem)

75 We're over 50 time for the bad pun.

Italician prosecutors are always slanting their case.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at February 12, 2014 01:50 PM (DL2i+)

76 I don't know which disgusts me more. The absurd persecution of Knox and Sollecito or the release of the OBVIOUS murderer Guede. On some level the Kerchers must know it was Guede who butchered their girl. I wonder what they think of letting him go?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (dfYL9)

77 . It wouldn't look good for it to come out that the cops released someone who later brutally raped and murdered a foreign college student.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 05:47 PM (7Iwef

 

Yeah that sounds like more of a job for an Arkansas governor.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (LI48c)

78 >>>Now THAT does make a lot of sense. It wouldn't look good for it to come out that the cops released someone who later brutally raped and murdered a foreign college student. meh. never explain by rational reasons what can be better explained by lunacy.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (/FnUH)

79 Hmm, is this a point for or against? Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 05:50 PM (7Iwef) Depends. On one's relative level of racktasticness.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (yz6yg)

80 Has Italy produced anything of worth since Monica Bellucci?

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (X3GkB)

81 Yep, Italy released Guede the same reason the R's gave obama his debt hike with no strings attached... 11 dimensional chess.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (YWssJ)

82 Italian detective? Does Tullius Cicero count? He did some investigation against some crooked Sicilians IIRC.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (m5+rk)

83 That was one of the charming things of the little Italian town of Vieste.  Every evening, weather permitting in the winter, the whole town would seem to come out and just mingle.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (4w7wl)

84 Am I missing something?  Why should I care about this story?  I mean - at all.

Posted by: Not an Artist at February 12, 2014 01:51 PM (uRumV)

85 71 Poirot is Belgian.

Posted by: steevy at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (zqvg6)

86 So on to the important stuffÂ….what makes the better movie? What actually happened or the complete fuckupetry that the Italian judicial system has made of this?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (GEICT)

87 74 55
"Good Italian food is the Americanized kind. Authentic is meatless gruel." No, fucking A, no. One thing you cannot criticize the Italians for, or the French for that matter, is food. It is awesome there.
Posted by: Peej

Sorry, no.  The worst pizza I ever had was in Florence.

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (6TB1Z)

88 84 Am I missing something? Why should I care about this story? I mean - at all.
Posted by: Not an Artist at February 12, 2014 05:51 PM (uRumV)

Well Ace has already said it's going to be on the final.

Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (pAlYe)

89 a corrupt-and-also-laughably-stupid-and-borderline-insane theory.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:46 PM (/FnUH)



"Man on Fire" was a remake of an early 80s movie ( Scott Glenn instead of Denzel ) set in Italy in the mid / late 1970s.  Italy went crazy during that decade, and never really recovered



and by crazy, I mean totally system-wide bad-sh*t crazy, man.  Dennis Hopper crazy

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (omBWL)

90 Give me cappuccino! Cappuccino for my bunghole!!!

Posted by: The Great Cornholio at February 12, 2014 01:52 PM (X3GkB)

91 Has Italy produced anything of worth since Monica Bellucci? Well, lemma see, there'sÂ… Â…and then there'sÂ… Â…. No. Nothing.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (yz6yg)

92 A miscarriage of justice is always a tragic thing, but the industry and "movement" that has grown around the Amanda Knox incident doesn't really seem all that interested in actually helping anyone. And since Amanda Knox is in no actual danger from the Reconstructed Fascist/Antifascist Italian State, she doesn't even really need any help.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (thBHI)

93 I think Maigret was also French.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (YWssJ)

94 36 The parallel I am drawing here is groups of people who are categorically convinced of a certain thing, yet the law system does not agree with them (so OJ is not a good one.) So we think that Ms. Knox is innocent of this crime. Everything we have seen or heard confirms this. All of our peers agree with us that she is innocent. We feel a sense of complete unreality that the Italian court system is still pursuing this even to the point of releasing the real killer. Now with Zimmerman/Martin those feelings are the same type of things that many in the minority community were feeling, the only difference being that, to them, Zimmerman was guilty. To them, justice was perverted in the same way we believe it is being perverted here. (Note: I am not saying the two cases are similar in any way, except for the feelings they engender.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (TGgNi)

95 Well Ace has already said it's going to be on the final. Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (pAlYe) Matching, essay, or true/false?

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (yz6yg)

96 meh. never explain by rational reasons what can be better explained by lunacy. Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:51 PM (/FnUH) Some 13th Dimension version of Hanlon's Razor?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (GEICT)

97 "On some level the Kerchers must know it was Guede who butchered their girl" I don't know. They seem very oddly tied to the idea that it was Knox and Sollecito. The only explanation for that I can understand is if they were fed a lot of lies from the prosecution and then never looked into the details of the case themselves.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 01:53 PM (7Iwef)

98 Rudy Guede as a criminal Informant Theory. http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/MarkWaterbury-7.html

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (6bMeY)

99 I didn't really follow the case that closely, but weren't Kercher's family pushing the Knox angle pretty hard with the prosecutors?

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (W2YA6)

100 91 Has Italy produced anything of worth since Monica Bellucci? Well, lemma see, there'sÂ… Â…and then there'sÂ… Â…. No. Nothing. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 12, 2014 05:53 PM (yz6yg) Ever seen a Gladiator movie???

Posted by: Pilot on an AIRPLANE! at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (84gbM)

101 I thought it was a 3-way gone bad.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (38LLM)

102 "Meatless gruel"? Now really . . .

Posted by: Chef Boy-ar-dee at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (yFb77)

103 Matching, essay, or true/false? Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 12, 2014 05:53 PM (yz6yg) Yes.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (GEICT)

104 Am I missing something? Why should I care about this story? I mean - at all.

I don't know.  Tell us- why did you care enough to comment?

Aside from the whole "being a douche" thing, of course.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 01:54 PM (SY2Kh)

105 Why should I care about this story? I mean - at all. Because Ace cares! And that's all that matters. GO TO HOT AIR!!

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:55 PM (YWssJ)

106 (Note: I am not saying the two cases are similar in any way, except for the feelings they engender.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 05:53 PM (TGgNi)



they were Wrong; I'm not. 



Apples and oranges, man; cats and dogs; Seahawks and Broncos

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 01:55 PM (omBWL)

107 92 --- I agree that Knox is in little danger. Sollecito, OTOH, ..........

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (dfYL9)

108 Looked it up - Cicero was Verres's prosecuting attorney, not a detective. Probably the last honest prosecution held on the peninsula

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (m5+rk)

109 But, people must always be kept in a state of perpetual outrage, and all their worries and frustrations channeled in all sorts of negative directions, and there's also a lot of money to be made doing that, so it's Altruism all the way down.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (thBHI)

110 Shit,  now I'll say it.  Fuck the EU.

Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (MNq6o)

111 Why should we care about the Amanda Knox case? Because she needs to be in protective custody. Mine.

Posted by: Bob Filner at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (yFb77)

112 Coming soon to a trial near you.   Under the  DOJ  we have now, I have no doubt that if dems retain any kind of executive power after 2016,  we'll be seeing a lot of this in this country.  Vendettas are for tyrants.

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 01:56 PM (5XB5E)

113 Has Italy produced anything of worth since Monica Bellucci?

The Ferrari 458?

It'll get you to the mechanics shop pretty darned fast.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 01:57 PM (SY2Kh)

114 What's also scary is the number of people in the US (well at least of those who actively post on political blogs) that seem to have bought the evil sex cult murder theory.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 12, 2014 01:57 PM (9eDbm)

115 What is the breaking point for American to burn congress down with the members in it?

Posted by: elrobalo at February 12, 2014 01:57 PM (wH5Tk)

116 I think just plain bitterness on the Kircher's part.Their daughter is dead and Knox is alive,

Posted by: steevy at February 12, 2014 01:57 PM (zqvg6)

117 All I really have to say is Italian food is my favorite

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 01:57 PM (nzKvP)

118 "meh. never explain by rational reasons what can be better explained by lunacy." You're probably right about that. But that's terrifying. Despite all evidence to the contrary in our world, it's comforting to believe that people are rational actors with understandable, logical (even if misguided or ignorant) motivations. Chaos is unsettling, although I supposed dismissing it as a massive force is illogical in itself given the evidence it its favor.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 01:58 PM (7Iwef)

119 Well Ace has already said it's going to be on the final.
Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (pAlYe)

Matching, essay, or true/false? Posted by: Sean Bannion

Word scramble.

Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2014 01:58 PM (MNq6o)

120 The Lamborghini Huracan?
http://tinyurl.com/myhutgp

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (4w7wl)

121 Hmm, is this a point for or against? See, you're thinking of fit, dusky, full-haired men. Think old, fat, greasy, sweaty, hairy but bald, balls hanging out of his jeans man.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (A0glY)

122 "Monster of Florence," - I read it, good, informative read ACE. It seems the Italian justice system, totally gets hung up on the brilliance of its own theories.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johnson at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (nL5y5)

123 Do I even have to denounce myself if I say I don't expect any better of Italy?  Scary is that I would not be a bit shocked if our current lovely state dept/ administration extradited Knox if the Italians find her guilty again now after finding her innocent in the previous trial of this case (was that the 2nd or 3rd one?)  

Posted by: palerider at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (dkExz)

124 All I really have to say is Italian food is my favorite Then you should avoid Olive Garden.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (YWssJ)

125 119 Well Ace has already said it's going to be on the final. Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (pAlYe) Matching, essay, or true/false? Posted by: Sean Bannion Word scramble. Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2014 05:58 PM (MNq6o) Uuuuuh, can sombody help me? I'm having trouble with "PT"

Posted by: Beavis at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (X3GkB)

126 This is why I moved to San Diego.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (38LLM)

127 117 All I really have to say is Italian food is my favorite

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 05:57 PM (nzKvP)

 

I would have guessed Chinese takeout.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (LI48c)

128 97, 99 --- For a long time the Kecrhers were indeed out for Amanda Knox's blood in particular. But more recently they have seemed to want real answers.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (dfYL9)

129 The Italian media has convicted Knox in the court of public opinion to the point they could pin anything on her. I know an Italian visa holder who is convinced she is "100% guilty." When I mentioned the complete lack of physical evidence he said, "Really? I did not know that." Nice job, Fourth Estate. Again.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (sOtz/)

130 The first rule of evil sex cult murder is you don't talk about evil sex cult murder. They are just garden variety Harry Potter nerds.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 01:59 PM (6bMeY)

131 ...lurker for YEARS, first post... I seem to recall from reading The Monster of Florence that the prosecutors' office there had been taken over completely by hard-core Marxists, that it was a haven for the politically far left, maybe that explains the apparent evil and stupidity and ignorance and cultural degradation?

Posted by: Yoptvoimat at February 12, 2014 02:00 PM (c8VFq)

132 All I really have to say is Italian food is my favorite Posted by: Nevergiveup


Especially when the spaghetti is in little "O" shapes and come out of a can.  I love that sound.  Fffooump!

Posted by: Dang, puttin his bib on at February 12, 2014 02:00 PM (MNq6o)

133 Amanda Knox  should  have  walked into a bar.  

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:01 PM (m2CN7)

134 Posted by: Yoptvoimat at February 12, 2014 06:00 PM (c8VFq)

---

Welcome !!

Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2014 02:01 PM (nELVU)

135 Aside from the whole "being a douche" thing, of course.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 05:54 PM (SY2Kh)


-----------------------------------------


Wow, just wow.  Well, thankfully I didn't waste time reading the whole thing - just couldn't understand why anyone would be interested in this story.  Normally, there is much more interesting content here.

Posted by: Not an Artist at February 12, 2014 02:01 PM (uRumV)

136 132 All I really have to say is Italian food is my favorite Posted by: Nevergiveup Especially when the spaghetti is in little "O" shapes and come out of a can. I love that sound. Fffooump! Posted by: Dang, puttin his bib on at February 12, 2014 06:00 PM (MNq6o) Nah, I like the Italian food Peyton Manning makes.

Posted by: LIV No. 3478635 at February 12, 2014 02:01 PM (X3GkB)

137 One detail you forgot... In addition to murder, Knox was convicted of "defamation" of the black nightclub owner whom the Italian cops tried to pin the murder on.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 12, 2014 02:02 PM (/Crba)

138 The Amanda Knox incident is not all that relevant to anything. Other than the fact that journalists and lawyers tend to be ass holes. Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 12, 2014 02:02 PM (thBHI)

139 You know I could have fixed all of this if you had come to me and shown me some respect. Now?

Posted by: Don Corelone at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (0FSuD)

140 87  Sorry, no. The worst pizza I ever had was in Florence.

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (6TB1Z)


All the people I know who made Med cruises all said Italian Pizza (called tomato pie there) said their pizza was crap.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (T2V/1)

141 When I mentioned the complete lack of physical evidence he said, "Really? I did not know that."

Nice job, Fourth Estate. Again.

In some other comments section someone- presumably Italian- commented that she wasn't a nice girl because she partied in nightclubs.  Therefore: guilty.

After all, what kind of monster parties in a nightclub when they're 19 years old and away from home?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (SY2Kh)

142 if you want to see system-wide Crazy in Italy, read about the Vatican bank scandal of the 1980s. 


Everybody was corrupt; like in 'The Professional', where Oldman screams,


EVERY----BODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (omBWL)

143 Two Italians walk into a bar and collect the protection money.

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (m2CN7)

144 channel 5 Boston weatgerman is on now... Mike Wankum.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (YWssJ)

145 or everyone, as you like

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 02:03 PM (omBWL)

146 I like Chef Boyardee Overstuffed Ravioli. A little garlic and grated parmesan on top and voila. Not the one that is the violin's cousin.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (6bMeY)

147 And since Amanda Knox is in no actual danger from the Reconstructed Fascist/Antifascist Italian State, she doesn't even really need any help. Sollecito is in jail for a crime he didn't commit. It's also valuable information for parents of kids interested in study abroad in Italy programs. It's also an interesting look into the corrupt and insane old world legal systems.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (A0glY)

148 Poor Italians. They needed to get tomatoes from South America and pasta from the Chinese to be able to make anything for shit.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (X3GkB)

149
It was..... Barzini all along.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (nELVU)

150 It wouldn't look good for it to come out that the cops released someone who later brutally raped and murdered a foreign college student.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 05:47 PM (7Iwef)



Except that's what they have just done.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Wrathful Grapes and Contemptuous Celery in the Produce Department! at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (gmoEG)

151 Sorry, no. The worst pizza I ever had was in Florence. Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (6TB1Z) Probably true. Try Naples next time. OMFG. Food orgasm.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (yz6yg)

152 >>>Has Italy produced anything of worth since Monica Bellucci?<<<

Claudia Romani.  You're welcome.

Posted by: Fritz at February 12, 2014 02:04 PM (TKFmG)

153 I would have guessed Chinese takeout. Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 05:59 PM (LI48c) That's my wife.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:05 PM (nzKvP)

154 Posted by: Vic at February 12, 2014 06:03 PM (T2V/1) Yep.... Italian Pizza was crap.... and not much better in Sicily either...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 02:05 PM (84gbM)

155 I had great pizza in Italy.  I can see how some would not care for it if they prefer that deep dish Chicago shit.

Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2014 02:05 PM (MNq6o)

156 In some other comments section someone- presumably Italian- commented that she wasn't a nice girl because she partied in nightclubs. Therefore: guilty. Don't forget the drugs and the seven sexual partners! She's a witch! (Note: as a Mormon, I think all y'all are heathens /kidding)

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:06 PM (A0glY)

157 "Except that's what they have just done." True, but they can claim that he "served his time" and all that crap.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 02:06 PM (7Iwef)

158 Lauren, fly into Leonardo da Vinci airport in Rome. Grab a hotel in Rome. But only tour the Vatican. Give me a Heads Up... I won't stampede any cattle until the next day ...

Posted by: Adriane... at February 12, 2014 02:06 PM (qoKTg)

159 "famous French??? Hercule Perot"



Poirot was Belgian, not Frog.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Wrathful Grapes and Contemptuous Celery in the Produce Department! at February 12, 2014 02:06 PM (gmoEG)

160 Sollecito is in jail for a crime he didn't commit. It's also valuable information for parents of kids interested in study abroad in Italy programs. It's also an interesting look into the corrupt and insane old world legal systems. Posted by: bonhomme at February 12, 2014 06:04 PM (A0glY) Sollecito is not in jail. At least not yet. What i think will happen is: The Italian high court will either again overturn the verdict or let it stand but change it to time served. This case is a huge embarrassment to italy

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:06 PM (nzKvP)

161 Better one guilty black guy go free and two innocent whites go to prison than just one guilty black guy to to prison.  Or something.

Posted by: Joe at February 12, 2014 02:07 PM (9r3GM)

162 140 I had a really good thin crust pizza in Rome. It had strips of spicy salami. Very good. The ice cream was awesome too.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 02:07 PM (TGgNi)

163 Sean, pizza from Naples?  Sorry Bella Napoli, think Pizza Hut, has permanently scared me off of any pizza from Naples. 

Dinner plate size mushroom pizza literally swimming in olive oil.  Crust was a tortilla and went instantly soggy.  Ugh.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:07 PM (4w7wl)

164 Dumb wops, last time I was in Italy they busted my balls because I married a Slovenian. They all sit around and piss their lives away living off Gov/cheese.

Posted by: schoolbus nagin at February 12, 2014 02:07 PM (WCnJW)

165 Italian Pizza was crap.... and not much better in Sicily either... Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 06:05 PM (84gbM) True, but of course, you would never actually say that IN Sicily. Capice?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:08 PM (nzKvP)

166 Why would the Italian justice system work any better than the rest of Italian government?

Posted by: --- at February 12, 2014 02:08 PM (MMC8r)

167 I think ace should join the  Innocent Project here in the States.   This  Amanda Knox  thing seems to be a turning point in his life.   

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:08 PM (m2CN7)

168 Sollecito is not in jail. At least not yet. He's not being held in a jail? Where do they have him, in a hotel?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:08 PM (A0glY)

169 The ice cream was awesome too.
Posted by: Aetius451AD


pfffft.  It's gelato, you Philistine. 

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (6TB1Z)

170 @141 Yeah, there is an undercurrent of "Punish the American whore because we dislike Americans generally" running through this whole case. European leftists were in full on hate mode over Iraq and pretty much everything else about us when this happened.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (sOtz/)

171 Gellato ala fragola gratzie!

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (4w7wl)

172 Sean, pizza from Naples? Sorry Bella Napoli, think Pizza Hut, has permanently scared me off of any pizza from Naples. Dinner plate size mushroom pizza literally swimming in olive oil. Crust was a tortilla and went instantly soggy. Ugh. Then you must have gone to the Italian equivalent of Pizza Hut. It was some of the best I've ever had and, since my parents owned an Italian restaurant, I've been in search of the perfect pie since age 9. My doctor says I swallowed a lot of aggression. Swallowed a lot of pizzas tooÂ….

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (yz6yg)

173 can we stop the italy bashing? Surely the US has it's own examples of this kind of BS. Not that I have a thing for Italy, but it strikes me as addle-brained to put Italy in a box with third world shit holes, when the problem is the crooked timber we try to build a governement out of, and the solution is limits on government power, severe oversight, and a realization that whatever we do it will be flawed at times. If we ignore these facts we get stuck in obamacare.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (LWu6U)

174 from wiki Guede, then aged 15, was adopted by a wealthy Perugia family. Did not know this.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (IXrOn)

175 Where do they have him, in a hotel? Posted by: bonhomme at February 12, 2014 06:08 PM (A0glY) National Park. In a hotel. Surrounded by Park Rangers with weapons. See? That's not detaining anyone.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:09 PM (GEICT)

176 He's not being held in a jail? Where do they have him, in a hotel? Posted by: bonhomme at February 12, 2014 06:08 PM (A0glY) He was in a Hotel near the Austrian Border. They took him into custody and seized his passport and then released him. The verdict by the lower court is not official till it is confirmed by the higher court

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (nzKvP)

177 131 ...lurker for YEARS, first post.

And Yoptvoimat has just stepped OUT of the closet.

Posted by: OregonMuse at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (I8YZX)

178 Am I missing something? Why should I care about this story? I mean - at all. Posted by: Not an Artist at February 12, 2014 05:51 PM (uRumV) Well Ace has already said it's going to be on the final. Aw crap.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (ZcEk0)

179 >>>...lurker for YEARS, first post... I seem to recall from reading The Monster of Florence that the prosecutors' office there had been taken over completely by hard-core Marxists, that it was a haven for the politically far left, maybe that explains the apparent evil and stupidity and ignorance and cultural degradation? YEAH... that's in there, I forget what he says about that. But that intriguing guy, the Italian nobleman who gives Preston the skinny on italian police and politics, mentions something like that, about a cadre of communists in official positions. I forget exactly what he claimed about it, but he did say something about that.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (/FnUH)

180 EVERY----BODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhq7b1Q8bSc

Posted by: Adriane... at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (qoKTg)

181 I can not get too worked up over this entire event. All I can see is Entertainment Tonight in it. Of course, the Knox girl will be a martyr and write a book and do a movie. She probably is the least guilty of the group. She's the first person ever to get fucked by a foreign legal system? The roommate is dead. Some fucker killed him. My casual view is they all bear some responsibility for the death. You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. I know that is callus. Sorry in advance.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (0FSuD)

182 In most countries in the world, it's hard enough to get justice if you are a citizen. If you are a foreigner you usually have "scapegoat" written on your forehead.

Posted by: votermom at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (GSIDW)

183 Jennifer Jones > Muirhead

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:10 PM (X3GkB)

184 169 Lol. I went with the more recognizable term. It was awesome though.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 02:11 PM (TGgNi)

185 Speaking of the French.....And Italians, did you know that France is the only country on the face of the earth that has been beaten by the Italians...Twice.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 12, 2014 02:11 PM (q/kmn)

186 I think people who show up to express the degree to which they are not interested in things they don't know about are themselves not interesting.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:11 PM (/FnUH)

187 Sean I learned my lesson.  That little shop only got my business once.  After that we were either cooking up on our hill or touring and eating in the local ristorantes.  Bella. 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (4w7wl)

188 I hear Italy has some really good cheese

Posted by: Chris Pagano at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (LWu6U)

189 Some fucker killed him. My casual view is they all bear some responsibility for the death. You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. I know that is callus. Sorry in advance. Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 06:10 PM (0FSuD) Say what? So if someone murdered my roommate in college, I'd bear some responsibility for his death? How does that work?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (GEICT)

190 DHS Chief Jeh Johnson: Yes, Al-Qaeda Is On “The Path To Defeat”… Weasel Zippers: See, we have idiots in the USofA also

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (nzKvP)

191 Now comes some interesting stuff. She could be extradited to Italy... we do have an extradition treaty with them... But she is also now wanted by Interpol... and we are a member of Interpol... so if they put out a Red Notice, we are supposed to arrest her... Could get very dicey for her...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (84gbM)

192 If we ignore these facts we get stuck in obamacare.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 06:09 PM (LWu6U)



Italy can be reformed, if Italians can profoundly change much of their system.



It's not 3rd world, or a sh*t-hole; it's a country which seemed to crumble and fall apart in the 70s, and has been festering and wallowing ever since

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 02:12 PM (omBWL)

193 So if someone murdered my roommate in college, I'd bear some responsibility for his death? How does that work? Horde logic.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:13 PM (yz6yg)

194 173 can we stop the italy bashing? Surely the US has it's own examples of this kind of BS. Not that I have a thing for Italy, but it strikes me as addle-brained to put Italy in a box with third world shit holes, when the problem is the crooked timber we try to build a governement out of, and the solution is limits on government power, severe oversight, and a realization that whatever we do it will be flawed at times. If we ignore these facts we get stuck in obamacare. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 06:09 PM (LWu6U) --Italy is a second world shithole grafted onto a marginal first world country. I asked a colleague of Italian descent by way of Australia if he was from southern Italy, and he scowled and warned me not to confuse him with a southern Italian.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:13 PM (X3GkB)

195 @181 Troll apologized in advance, so we're totes cool.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 12, 2014 02:13 PM (9eDbm)

196 Sorry in advance. Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 06:10 PM (0FSuD) Other than the fact that the innocent have been to hell and back... Put yourself in their shoes. What a nightmare.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 12, 2014 02:13 PM (IXrOn)

197 >>>Of course, the Knox girl will be a martyr and write a book and do a movie. She probably is the least guilty of the group. She's the first person ever to get fucked by a foreign legal system? ... oh right so we shouldn't care. >>>The roommate is dead. Some fucker killed him. My casual view is they all bear some responsibility for the death. ... yes, including, especially, the people who have no responsibility for the death. >>>You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. I know that is callus. yes drug taking whores are essentially guilty of murder, even if they're not. Why bother with trials? We know she's a whore; "in some way" she must be responsible for a murder she's not responsible at all for.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:13 PM (/FnUH)

198 I said it last time this subject came up and I'll say it again:

Ma Bell's got the ill communication.

Posted by: Gaff at February 12, 2014 02:14 PM (iV8i3)

199 It's not 3rd world, or a sh*t-hole; it's a country which seemed to crumble and fall apart in the 70s, and has been festering and wallowing ever since
Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese )

I mean, after all, what the hell have the Italians ever done for world civilization?

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 02:14 PM (6TB1Z)

200 Do they have Skittles and watermelon flavored Arizona Iced Tea in Italy? 'Cause this case could sure some of those. Also, a bloody glove.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:14 PM (lo1uS)

201 In most countries in the world, it's hard enough to get justice if you are a citizen. If you are a foreigner you usually have "scapegoat" written on your forehead. Posted by: votermom

True.  A friend of mine was told he could enter Brazil with his passport even though the cover was damaged,  for $4,000.  Had to get back on a flight and go home.  A co-worker of his spilled coffee on his passport while in some African nation and the company had to pay $10,000 to get him out.

Posted by: Dang at February 12, 2014 02:14 PM (MNq6o)

202 Why bother with trials? We know she's a whore; "in some way" she must be responsible for a murder she's not responsible at all for. They were cool with that at the SalemWitch trials too.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:15 PM (yz6yg)

203 Yeah, there is an undercurrent of "Punish the American whore because we dislike Americans generally" running through this whole case. European leftists were in full on hate mode over Iraq and pretty much everything else about us when this happened.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 06:09 PM (sOtz/)

 

 

---------------------------------------------

 

 

THIS!  Even back in the 70's the EU leftists hated anything American.  They are  as full-blown marxists/fascists  as  Dear Leader and his regime.

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 02:15 PM (5XB5E)

204 So if someone murdered my roommate in college, I'd bear some responsibility for his death? How does that work? I think if you were in a threesome with him and someone else you might bear some responsibility. That and you know. Mistakes have been made, others must be blamed.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:15 PM (0FSuD)

205 >>>Not that I have a thing for Italy, but it strikes me as addle-brained to put Italy in a box with third world shit holes... read Monster of Florence and then tell me if you're as sure of what you just said. Monster of Florence is not a true-crime book; it's a book about politics and government. Trust me: You will be shocked. yes, monster of florence is sort of about Italy's Jack the Ripper. But it's really about government and government officials, and the things they do.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:15 PM (/FnUH)

206 Apologies if someone has pointed this out already, but Dempsey's book is called Murder in Italy (not Perugia).

Posted by: Kirstin at February 12, 2014 02:15 PM (EGQlg)

207 >>>I think if you were in a threesome with him and someone else you might bear some responsibility. oh for god's sake she wasn't even there, there was no "threesome" If there were a threesome HER DNA WOULD BE ON KERCHER. IT WASN'T.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (/FnUH)

208

EU = European.  No EU in the 70's

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (5XB5E)

209 I asked a colleague of Italian descent by way of Australia if he was from southern Italy, and he scowled and warned me not to confuse him with a southern Italian. First-generation immigrants from Italy have whole regions on the "I won't even speak that name" list.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (A0glY)

210 I still say the Italian Higher Court will over turn the verdict again or confirm it but limit it to time served.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (nzKvP)

211 The roommate is dead. Some fucker killed him her. My casual view is they all bear some responsibility for the death. You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. I know that is callus. Sorry in advance. Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 06:10 PM (0FSuD) Why would Knox and her boyfriend bear "some responsibility" for her roommate's death?

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (bCEmE)

212 "I think if you were in a threesome with him and someone else you might bear some responsibility" There was no threesome, as far as I know.

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (7Iwef)

213 True, but of course, you would never actually say that IN Sicily. Capice? Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 06:08 PM (nzKvP) LOL.... actually... when I was I Sicily in the 80's.... I was part of the best armed 'Gang' in the world... the only gang that up until then had Nuclear Weapons... the US Navy... That was back before we got remilitarized by Reagan....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (84gbM)

214 I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: Ripley at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (kPpHE)

215 Did Ma Belle have a Nip Slip?

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 12, 2014 02:16 PM (9eDbm)

216 I think people who show up to express the degree to which they are not interested in things they don't know about are themselves not interesting.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:11 PM (/FnUH)

 

You shouldn't take it personally.  Its like people who go to a football game and  absolutely love everything about  the  game  but  also  complain about the half time show.    If they just showed up at half time and left at half time then it would be different.   Otherwise I think its normal.  

 

You have created an atmosphere where people feel like friends or family  and you know how friends or family can be brutally honest on how they feel.   

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (m2CN7)

217 83 That was one of the charming things of the little Italian town of Vieste. Every evening, weather permitting in the winter, the whole town would seem to come out and just mingle. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 05:51 PM (4w7wl) La Passeggiata. It's a tradition in all Italian cities and towns.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (NRYdU)

218
The best part of Italy is how quickly you can drive from Malpensa Airport in Milan through the Alps to San Mortiz, Switzerland where the civilized people live and play. 

Posted by: Doctor Fish at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (nQjHM)

219 >>>Apologies if someone has pointed this out already, but Dempsey's book is called Murder in Italy (not Perugia). ACH! Damn, you're right.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (/FnUH)

220 If your victims are young enough, most government officials won't care.

Posted by: Dr. Gosnell at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (Q6pxP)

221 OT. its been in several tabloids MICHELLE OBAMA is already hammering away at a $15 million memoir that will rip the lid off President Barack Obama’s secret extramarital hijinks and public flirta­tions with other women, sources tell The ENQUIRER. “Michelle has suffered in silence, while Barack ignored her to live it up surrounded by adoring beauties,” an insider told The ENQUIRER. “She’s fed up, and she’s going to use a poison-pen memoir of her White House years to get revenge on him. “The book will be based on her diaries and tell the world about Barack’s flirting, drinking and hanging out with fawning women. Mi­chelle doesn’t want to come away as Hillary Clinton, who stood by her man Bill when he cheat­ed like a dog, but as a strong woman.” Another source added: “Michelle feels she’s been made a laughingstock on the world stage, and she plans to get her revenge with this memoir.

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (zOTsN)

222 @197 ace, I said I couldn't get worked up about the entire event and I was callus about it. As Nancy Grace said: "Something happened in that house"

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:17 PM (0FSuD)

223 I think if you were in a threesome with him and someone else you might bear some responsibility. Again, how the fuck would that work? Either I killed him or I didn't. Either I was involved or I wasn't.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:18 PM (GEICT)

224 Recently, Michelle read Barack the riot act because his drinking has been escalating – and then he had the audac­ity to declare that marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol. “She reminded him that the pot out there these days is a lot stronger than what he and his ‘Choom Gang’ pals smoked back in Hawaii,” said a source. “And she told him it was especially unforgiv­able considering they have two daughters who are at an age when they’ll be exposed to the temptations of experimenting with drugs”. Meanwhile, as The ENQUIRER has re­ported, the first lady had been seething for months over her husband’s infatuation with “Scandal” star Kerry Washington, whom she once banned from the White House. Then Obama made international headlines by shamelessly flirting with Denmark’s dishy female prime minister at the late Nelson Mandela’s memorial service in South Africa in December. toker in chief?

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:18 PM (zOTsN)

225 LOL.... actually... when I was I Sicily in the 80's.... I was part of the best armed 'Gang' in the world... the only gang that up until then had Nuclear Weapons... the US Navy... That was back before we got remilitarized by Reagan.... Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 06:16 PM (84gbM) Yeah, I am working on going to sigonella for a few weeks right now

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:18 PM (nzKvP)

226 I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty.  I was surprised.

Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (6H6o8)

227 It's callous, not callus!

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (9eDbm)

228 “The book will be based on her diaries and tell the world about Barack’s flirting, drinking and hanging out with fawning women. Mi­chelle doesn’t want to come away as Hillary Clinton, who stood by her man Bill when he cheat­ed like a dog, but as a strong woman.” Another source added: “Michelle feels she’s been made a laughingstock on the world stage, and she plans to get her revenge with this memoir. Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 06:17 PM (zOTsN) --Fawning *women*? I already can tell it's fiction.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (X3GkB)

229 Michelle feels sheÂ’s been made a laughingstock on the world stage, and she plans to get her revenge with this memoir. Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 06:17 PM (zOTsN) Made? no.... revealed as? Yes....

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (84gbM)

230 "“The book will be based on her diaries and tell the world about Barack’s flirting, drinking and hanging out with fawning women" Bro...

Posted by: Reggie Love at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (7Iwef)

231 @181 So screw innocent people wrongly accused because it happens all the time? I don't follow the logic of that.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (sOtz/)

232 I think people who show up to express the degree to which they are not interested in things they don't know about are themselves not interesting. My freshman year at BYU there was a kid in the dorm who would deck himself out in Notre Dame gear daily. He would go on and on about how it's a better school. I've no doubt in my mind he'd have worn BYU gear if he'd gone to Notre Dame. I think of people who fit your description the same way as that kid.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (A0glY)

233 As Nancy Grace said: "Something happened in that house" Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 06:17 PM (0FSuD) Ah. Now I see.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:19 PM (GEICT)

234 Uuuuuh, can sombody help me? I'm having trouble with "PT" That's TP. You dumbass. Huh uhuh huuhuhh...

Posted by: Butthead at February 12, 2014 02:20 PM (PMGbu)

235 Another example of the GOP's 'War on Women'

Posted by: Debbie Wasserman Schultz at February 12, 2014 02:20 PM (Q6pxP)

236 Isn't the water in Venice pretty much a sewer?

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:20 PM (YWssJ)

237 She met this italian guy and they were totally in to each other. Seems typical with college students. They had no interest in other people. But people want to paint her as a whore. That's sick.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:20 PM (NRYdU)

238 Nancy Grace, the Mad Harpy of Atlanta.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at February 12, 2014 02:20 PM (9eDbm)

239 227 It's callous, not callus! Thanks, that and I really don't give a shit. Sorry. Just ignore me. I am waiting till @250 to talk about guns.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:21 PM (0FSuD)

240 Either I killed him or I didn't. Either I was involved or I wasn't. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 06:18 PM (GEICT) Your mind thoughts can produce brain weapons.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:21 PM (yz6yg)

241 ""Something happened in that house" Yeah a creepy acquaintance of the down stairs neighbors raped and killed her while Knox was over at her boyfriend's house.

Posted by: Reggie Love at February 12, 2014 02:21 PM (7Iwef)

242 Isn't the water in Venice pretty much a sewer?

If you're drinking water in Venice, you're doing it wrong.

Posted by: pep at February 12, 2014 02:21 PM (6TB1Z)

243 Fawning women is a euphemism for 'Regina Love'?

Posted by: Barry Soetoro at February 12, 2014 02:21 PM (Q6pxP)

244 234 Uuuuuh, can sombody help me? I'm having trouble with "PT" That's TP. You dumbass. Huh uhuh huuhuhh... Posted by: Butthead at February 12, 2014 06:20 PM (PMGbu) --Heh, back in the '90s I got a Beavis and Butt-Head activity book and one of the pages was word sccrambles, and "PT" was one of them.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (X3GkB)

245 “The book will be based on her diaries and tell the world about BarackÂ’s flirting, drinking and hanging out with fawning women. Mi­chelle doesnÂ’t want to come away as Hillary Clinton, who stood by her man Bill when he cheat­ed like a dog, but as a strong woman.” Another source added: “Michelle feels sheÂ’s been made a laughingstock on the world stage, and she plans to get her revenge with this memoir.

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 06:17 PM (zOTsN)

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

Baraka and Eric are  already setting up her premier book-signing event in Ft. Marcy Park..

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (5XB5E)

246 178 Am I missing something? Why should I care about this story? I mean - at all. Posted by: Not an Artist at February 12, 2014 05:51 PM (uRumV) I don't know about you but some day I would like to visit Italy again. But I'm not going to do if I'm going to be set up and sent to the joint for 26 years. This is bullshit.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (NRYdU)

247 So screw innocent people wrongly accused because it happens all the time? No, because it's not the first time. Adam and Eve were the first to have a kid murdered. All the other parents who have had their kids murdered should suck it up.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (A0glY)

248 Your mind thoughts can produce brain weapons. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 12, 2014 06:21 PM (yz6yg) Well that's clearly not true or elseÂ…Â…never mind. We'll just forget I said anything.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (GEICT)

249 226 I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty. I was surprised.

Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 06:19 PM (6H6o


Ah - here's her column from September 2011 on it:

http://tinyurl.com/4yyaae3


Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (6H6o8)

250 As Nancy Grace said: "Something happened in that house" Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 06:17 PM (0FSuD) Nancy Grace is the Cris Collinsworth of the legal world.

Posted by: Sean Bannion [/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (yz6yg)

251 It kind of made me chuckle to think of the Mooch going all medieval on ole Jug Ears ass.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 12, 2014 02:22 PM (V40IZ)

252 Ew. Off Obama loving sock

Posted by: Lauren at February 12, 2014 02:23 PM (7Iwef)

253 Nancy Grace is the Cris Collinsworth of the legal world. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 12, 2014 06:22 PM (yz6yg) That's insulting to Cris Collinsworth's stylist.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:23 PM (GEICT)

254 226 I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty. I was surprised. Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 06:19 PM (6H6o Ah - here's her column from September 2011 on it:http://tinyurl.com/4yyaae3 Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 06:22 PM (6H6o She also loved Christie....people make mistakes.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 02:23 PM (bCEmE)

255 It seems like a certain madness is spreading around the world. Sure, I know the Italian justice system has always been odd. Still... It just feels like when all the animals go missing before an earthquake. Feels like something big is going to happen.

Posted by: Still no sign of sig at February 12, 2014 02:23 PM (q177U)

256 It kind of made me chuckle to think of the Mooch going all medieval on ole Jug Ears ass. I'll believe it when I see it. The book part. I totally believe she yells at him regularly.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (A0glY)

257 Rubio is on PBS with Gwen Awful. He sounds like a bleeding heart liberal.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (YWssJ)

258 Well, if Italy didn't have such shitty gun laws, someone could have been shot! It's a start while I look for the wine I am not suppose to drink.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (0FSuD)

259
Nancy Grace farting on Dancing With the Stars!


http://tinyurl.com/lfj7y76

Posted by: Doctor Fish at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (nQjHM)

260 I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty. I was surprised.

Correct.  She made the mistake of taking at face value the "evidence" presented by the prosecution and their incompetent, corrupt police.

Most of it was later revealed to be misrepresented, invalid or just plain fabricated.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (SY2Kh)

261 Baraka and Eric are already setting up her premier book-signing event in Ft. Marcy Park.. Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 06:22 PM (5XB5E) Barrack.... I've had problems like this in the past... with folks like Vince Foster... Throw your support behind me next election... and I'll... bury... this little problem for you...

Posted by: Hillary Clinton... at February 12, 2014 02:24 PM (84gbM)

262

The killer  became  aware of Knox and the roomate  because of their passing friendship and common enjoyment of the ganja  with the downstair neighbors.  

 

This of course does not put any responsibility for the murder on Knox .   Its just the age old story  of  bad things happening  to  a lot of people because  of the people they have associated with.    

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:25 PM (m2CN7)

263 On a related subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWaxObCxiwM

Posted by: TrueNorthist at February 12, 2014 02:25 PM (3Aixx)

264 the prosecutor is an evil nut she is responsible for nothing the Italian criminal process is a joke, especially in light of the killers release from prison its shocking I would rather think about Mooch trashing the legacy of Mr Historic Firstness

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:25 PM (zOTsN)

265 She also loved Christie....people make mistakes.

Posted by: Tami at February 12, 2014 06:23 PM (bCEmE)


True enough!

Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 02:25 PM (6H6o8)

266 >>>I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty. I was surprised. she did, but I personally assumed Knox was guilty too. I assume most accused people are guilty. Most are. It's a good rule of thumb. But it's not an iron rule. Once you look at the evidence... wow, this one isn't even close. And bear in mind Coulter was (perhaps still is) going on false claims that they found "Amanda's DNA on the knife's handle, Meredith's DNA on the knife's blade!!!" Ummmm... yeah that sounds convincing. It's also not true. It's not even the murder weapon. It's a bread knife they found at Rafael's. Amanda's dna is on, becuase she used it. Meredith's dna is NOT on it. But if you heard that, you'd think "case closed.' But it's not true. What they thought was Meredith's dna was such a tiny sample they had to violate the terms of testing to get a read on it all -- too small a sample for an accurate read. It turns out that tiny bit of dna is most likely... Barley, I think they said. There's an interesting thing about DNA I didn't know-- you first have to establish it's HUMAN in the first place. Because it does turn out that various bits of inhuman things share the same DNA "filler sequences" with humans (DNA identity tests analyze these filler sequences, not actual expressed genes). So you have to make sure it's human dna before you even bother running a dna comparison. As it turns out, it's probably just barley. From bread. because it's a kitchen knife.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:25 PM (/FnUH)

267 209 I asked a colleague of Italian descent by way of Australia if he was from southern Italy, and he scowled and warned me not to confuse him with a southern Italian. First-generation immigrants from Italy have whole regions on the "I won't even speak that name" list. Italy wasn't even a country until 1861. It was a collection of city-states for its entire history.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:26 PM (lo1uS)

268 Rubio has become the biggest Socio-economic Engineer in the Republican party. His "thing" is helping people achieve 'upward mobility'...with govt programs. He's a friggin Democrat. A good Democrat, but a Democrat.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:26 PM (YWssJ)

269 Guede is available for day release. He can go to college in the daytime.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:27 PM (6bMeY)

270 I'm late to the thread. Has Tom made an appearance yet?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 12, 2014 02:27 PM (DmNpO)

271 260 I could be misremembering, but I think Ann Coulter believed Knox was guilty. I was surprised.

Correct. She made the mistake of taking at face value the "evidence" presented by the prosecution and their incompetent, corrupt police.

Most of it was later revealed to be misrepresented, invalid or just plain fabricated.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 12, 2014 06:24 PM (SY2Kh)

I was an Ann Coulter fan for quite a while then she de-railed on something, forget what it was...(taps forehead)... but even if my brain can't recall the details, it does put a red light on Ann Coulter.

Something about "lost her shit."

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:27 PM (4Re4i)

272 So are you saying he was he stoned in S.A.? surely someone on whitehouse staff will leak about the emergency visene eye drops before photos can be taken if that was the case.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 02:28 PM (LWu6U)

273 He can go to college in the daytime. That's comforting.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:28 PM (A0glY)

274 At least the Italians did not read goat entrails to determine her guilt and crucify her.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 02:28 PM (sOtz/)

275 This case raises red flags.

Posted by: Roberto Costazzio at February 12, 2014 02:28 PM (X3GkB)

276 Italy wasn't even a country until 1861. It was a collection of city-states for its entire history. Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 06:26 PM (lo1uS) True... never considered ourselves a Country.... we were an EMPIRE!!!

Posted by: Julius Ceaser at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (84gbM)

277 And bear in mind Coulter was (perhaps still is) going on false claims that they found "Amanda's DNA on the knife's handle, Meredith's DNA on the knife's blade!!!"

Ummmm... yeah that sounds convincing. It's also not true. It's not even the murder weapon. It's a bread knife they found at Rafael's. Amanda's dna is on, becuase she used it. Meredith's dna is NOT on it.

But if you heard that, you'd think "case closed.'

But it's not true.

What they thought was Meredith's dna was such a tiny sample they had to violate the terms of testing to get a read on it all -- too small a sample for an accurate read.

It turns out that tiny bit of dna is most likely... Barley, I think they said.

There's an interesting thing about DNA I didn't know-- you first have to establish it's HUMAN in the first place. Because it does turn out that various bits of inhuman things share the same DNA "filler sequences" with humans (DNA identity tests analyze these filler sequences, not actual expressed genes). So you have to make sure it's human dna before you even bother running a dna comparison.

As it turns out, it's probably just barley. From bread. because it's a kitchen knife.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:25 PM (/FnUH)

 

 

 

You should have read the ramblings of the trolls the last time you posted about Knox.  They kept on swearing that Kercher's DNA was on the knife.

 

 

And don't we share something like 42% genetic similarities with bananas?

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (LI48c)

278 270 I'm late to the thread.

Has Tom made an appearance yet?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 12, 2014 06:27 PM (DmNpO)

Clancy? uh...

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (4Re4i)

279 >> I was an Ann Coulter fan for quite a while then she de-railed on something, forget what it was...(taps forehead)... but even if my brain can't recall the details, it does put a red light on Ann Coulter. Something about "lost her shit." Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 06:27 PM (4Re4i) I forgive Coulter of everything based on her immigration position.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (LWu6U)

280 >>>The killer became aware of Knox and the roomate because of their passing friendship and common enjoyment of the ganja with the downstair neighbors. This of course does not put any responsibility for the murder on Knox . Its just the age old story of bad things happening to a lot of people because of the people they have associated with. ... This is true, I'm just not sure why you think this is an important thing to say. The downstairs boys -- you know, the ones with the ganja plants-- suffered no consequences for any of this at all, but you're still kind of suggesting that Knox, vaguely, brought this on herself. You just seem to have a determination to link a fairly trivial transgression with the major hell Knox has gone through. You'll have to explain that to me. Do you really believe that God desires such outrageous catastrophes to happen, in order to vindicate his rules about things? I don't see why you just keep pounding this drum, unless you are attempting to suggest some kind of cosmic justice. BTW, I think Kercher smoked the same ganja. I'm not sure of this, but I think she did. She was also DATING one of these bad downstairs boys. Ergo, it was her mixing with the evil downstairs boys and their weed that brought her to the attention of the downstairs boys acquaintance, Rudy Guede. Would you suggest she also sort of brought this horrific murder on herself?

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (/FnUH)

281 I was an Ann Coulter fan for quite a while then she de-railed on something, forget what it was...(taps forehead)... but even if my brain can't recall the details, it does put a red light on Ann Coulter. Lots of people were turned off when she went after the lefty 9/11 widows for enjoying being feted.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (A0glY)

282 >>As Nancy Grace said: >>"Something happened in that house" Pretty sure Nancy Grace was down with hanging those kids from Duke out to dry because "something happened in that house". I would sooner used Nancy Pelosi as a source of wisdom than Nancy Grace.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 12, 2014 02:29 PM (g1DWB)

283 And John McCain is out there again beating the drums of war for Syria. I'd like to stick John McCain, Amanda Knox, and Guerde in a locked room for a night to see what happens.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:30 PM (YWssJ)

284 I just farted.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 12, 2014 02:30 PM (X3GkB)

285 northern Italians think of southern Italians as described by Dennis Hopper's character in True Romance

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:30 PM (zOTsN)

286 And don't we share something like 42% genetic similarities with bananas?

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 06:29 PM (LI48c)

this perfectly explains why it turns to the lef... er... never mind!

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:30 PM (4Re4i)

287 Your mind thoughts can produce brain weapons.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 12, 2014 06:21 PM (yz6yg)

Sean you've been hiding a Weirding Module?

Nevergiveup, Sigonella might be fun.  Never was that far south.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:30 PM (4w7wl)

288 Sometimes you need trolls. You need argument. It can spur you to ideas that you didn't have before.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (RJMhd)

289 >>"71 Hmmmm....

Famous British Detectives? yep.... famous French??? Hercule Perot.... famous Chinese? Inspector Charlie Chan... American? Many... "

Damn right, many indeed.

Well ok... but you should see some of the absolutely insane crap I have to deal with on a daily basis in Gotham, so yeah, once in a while I need a little bit of help. 


Posted by: Commissioner Gordon at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (XNyZy)

290 And don't we share something like 42% genetic similarities with bananas? Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 06:29 PM (LI48c) And thus the Term... Banana Head... may be technically accurate!

Posted by: Science! at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (84gbM)

291 I thought he was *only* released to attend classes in pursuit of a History degree. The bastards. I wonder who's paying for those classes/

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (DmNpO)

292 I just farted.

Quick someone get Biden a bidet.  He will be amused for hours.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (4w7wl)

293 285 northern Italians think of southern Italians as described by Dennis Hopper's character in True Romance Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 06:30 PM (zOTsN) ************ There are a lot of North vs. South splits in the world. even in China ...

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:31 PM (RJMhd)

294 Ace provided an accurate rundown on this case. He'll have to explain it to Ann Coulter, who idiotically thinks Knox is slam dunk guilty, either due to having premarital sex or the NYT making the same arguments as Ace.

Posted by: Lloyd at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (cYdUK)

295 269 Guede is available for day release. He can go to college in the daytime. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 06:27 PM (6bMeY) The chances of him re-offending is high. I'd hate to be a coed at his school.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (NRYdU)

296 So you have to make sure it's human dna before you even bother running a dna comparison.

As it turns out, it's probably just barley. From bread. because it's a kitchen knife.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:25 PM (/FnUH)


Ann says, in her Sep 2011 article (http://tinyurl.com/4yyaae3) that she arrived at her opinion independent of the DNA evidence. 


Posted by: kathysaysso at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (6H6o8)

297 Hmm, the prosecutors won't give up their theory no matter what the evidence points towards. 

Since when did the Italians start hiring climatologists for law enforcement?

Posted by: Thatch at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (qYvEa)

298 I think people who show up to express the degree to which they are not interested in things they don't know about are themselves not interesting.

Politeness as a 1st tactic or a missing Admiral Ackbar sock?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (DL2i+)

299 The knife DNA was starch from bread. When you deliver a deathblow with a hilt less knife you generally cut the hell out of yourself. Guede carried a knife.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:32 PM (6bMeY)

300 So if someone murdered my roommate in college, I'd bear some responsibility for his death? How does that work?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 06:12 PM (GEICT)

Actually one of my roommates in college was murdered. And I can assure you that I had 0.00000000% responsibility for it.

He was walking along a major street through campus late one night (the exact same route that I'd taken many, many times) and got robbed of less than $40 and shot. They eventually caught his killers who turned out to be some young hoods on a robbery/murder spree that night. My roommate was their 3rd victim of the night and just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

And no contrary to common campus rumor you do not get automatic A's if your roommate dies.

Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 02:33 PM (pAlYe)

301 Was not until the 1800s that we even had a country that could be called Italy.  Feuding city states and Papal states.  With France dabbling.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:33 PM (4w7wl)

302
Use this Fart Sound Board to determine which one is Hillary.


http://tinyurl.com/27yq3d

Posted by: Ann Coulter at February 12, 2014 02:33 PM (nQjHM)

303 288 Sometimes you need trolls.

You need argument.

It can spur you to ideas that you didn't have before.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:31 PM (RJMhd)

We have like...what?  two trolls here?  jwest bailed, moo moo is bi-polar, and that's the best we've got.

Rest of them to the well behind the barn.

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:33 PM (4Re4i)

304 I forgive Coulter of everything based on her immigration position. I'd take her missionary position.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:34 PM (lo1uS)

305

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:29 PM (/FnUH)

 

I'm simply stating that associating with a bad crowd will  frequently lead to negative consequences  whether justified or not.    That is a good lesson to repeat.   Its no different than you repeating  facts  and previous comments from the Knox  case.

 

And no disrespect but I don't debate a spitural question with  non believers.   

Posted by: polynikes at February 12, 2014 02:34 PM (m2CN7)

306 Actually one of my roommates in college was murdered. And I can assure you that I had 0.00000000% responsibility for it. He was walking along a major street through campus late one night (the exact same route that I'd taken many, many times) and got robbed of less than $40 and shot. They eventually caught his killers who turned out to be some young hoods on a robbery/murder spree that night. My roommate was their 3rd victim of the night and just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. And no contrary to common campus rumor you do not get automatic A's if your roommate dies. Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 06:33 PM (pAlYe) ************* Where did you go to college? USC?

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:34 PM (RJMhd)

307 Maybe the fact that they slapped Guede's hand will work as an advantage for Knox? It is more proof that the Italian justice system sucks and that they are more intent on punishing the American girl and the poor guy she was seeing. If we refuse to extradite her, then what happens to poor Raffi?

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:34 PM (NRYdU)

308 For the record: I don't think there is any "real" evidence that Knox had anything to do with the crime. She would never be convicted in an American Court. She will not be sent back to Italy and Italy is going to somehow find a way to deep six this embarrassment by overturning it or time served.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:34 PM (nzKvP)

309 Jennifer Jones > Muirhead Russian Skip puts them both to shame.

Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 02:35 PM (V1V9z)

310 Your room mate? Holy shit.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:35 PM (RJMhd)

311 And no contrary to common campus rumor you do not get automatic A's if your roommate dies.

Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 06:33 PM (pAlYe)

 

That's commits suicide.  Not dies.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 02:35 PM (LI48c)

312 My Italian friend told me Knox's boyfriend is from a small town which suggests (to Italians) he is some kind of freak. Yeah, I have no idea. But he said it.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 02:35 PM (sOtz/)

313 He was walking along a major street through campus late one night (the exact same route that I'd taken many, many times) and got robbed of less than $40 and shot. They eventually caught his killers who turned out to be some young hoods on a robbery/murder spree that night. My roommate was their 3rd victim of the night and just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. was that at Georgia Tech?

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:35 PM (zOTsN)

314 Actually one of my roommates in college was murdered. And I can assure you that I had 0.00000000% responsibility for it. My condolences. I lived with a guy for three months who murdered his mother and sister's best friend a few months later. He had a schizophrenic episode. They found him covered in blood, naked, wrapped in a US flag. The family had tried to get him into a clinic a couple weeks earlier, but were turned down.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:36 PM (gtjN1)

315 Oh the Humanity! Sinkhole swallows pricey Corvettes at hallowed museum http://is.gd/mAO9CB

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 02:36 PM (QupBk)

316 131 ...lurker for YEARS, first post... I seem to recall from reading The Monster of Florence that the prosecutors' office there had been taken over completely by hard-core Marxists, that it was a haven for the politically far left, maybe that explains the apparent evil and stupidity and ignorance and cultural degradation? Posted by: Yoptvoimat at February 12, 2014 06:00 PM (c8VFq) Good point.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 02:36 PM (NRYdU)

317 bonhomme holy shit

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (zOTsN)

318 just in case

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (QupBk)

319 In Italy's defense, they are just slightly less retarded than Spain. I love Spain and Italy. Very beautiful women, but I can't relate to a country where entire conversations can be nothing more that a series of shrugs.

Posted by: The Hobo Hooker Waitress Model Actress Wears Prada at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (GeVLX)

320 Italy is a collection of essentially autonomous regional governments with little formal authority but substantial actual power.  These govts owe only lip-service to the central government in Rome-- they're more afraid of the EU than their own national government.


the regional governments are coalitions of communists ( Italian style ), serious communists, anarchists, Greenies, Mafia families, Mafia wanna-be types, amoral careerists who will f*ck anyone for a job security, and an amazing number of lunatics.


Maybe that's true in a lot of countries, but somehow in Italy ( maybe because I studied its government and spent so much time there ), it seems....tragic.


Rome was a long long time ago

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (omBWL)

321 Damnit, that's enough! Knox is a US citizen and it has been too long since we bombed Italy. Call it "The War of Knox's Beaver."

Posted by: Sharkman at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (8LnwS)

322 Is 3-D printing/manufacturing really the future? Doesn't seem cost effective. PBS News hour is a doing a segment on it.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (YWssJ)

323 Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 06:33 PM (4Re4i)
---------
There were two a couple of days back. One called itself Tasmanian Devil and I don't remember the other one. I think it was just one poster because it kept arguing with itself back and forth but it had two different hashes.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (+hPIb)

324 315 Oh the Humanity! Sinkhole swallows pricey Corvettes at hallowed museum http://is.gd/mAO9CB Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 06:36 PM (QupBk) I will have my due.... GM did sign that contract...

Posted by: The Devil at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (84gbM)

325 317 bonhomme holy shit Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 06:37 PM (zOTsN) ********* Seconded. wtf?

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:37 PM (RJMhd)

326 Amanda Knox and Rafael Sollecito are guilty as sin. Rudy Guede is an innocent lad being framed by the man.

Posted by: O.J. Simpson at February 12, 2014 02:38 PM (CItGb)

327

I still think this is a vendetta against everything and everyone American.  I'm sure there's been many  old resentments handed down through the last 3 or 4 generations  on how the Americans made  the  Italian fascists look like fools during WWII.  They probably have the same resentments towards the British.

 

You aren't an Italian unless you have a  deep-seated, intractable resentment toward someone.

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 02:38 PM (5XB5E)

328 I suppose that's a lesson for me, not to associate with bad people.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:38 PM (gtjN1)

329 >> Would you suggest she also sort of brought this horrific murder on herself? Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:29 PM (/FnUH) As a father, there is something to be said for teaching our children to keep their noses clean, avoid people that are breaking laws, etc. Not saying this result was justice, but I am saying that I want my kids to understand that the world is NOT a just place, and that they have to live a virtuous life to help minimize the risk to themselves. Just like the schools teach them to not use plastic bags lest they create climate change, so my daughter wants to carry around a f--ing "eco-bag", i am more interested in her avoiding people that smoke pot since the risk is higher there (i think). especially when a guest in a foreign country.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 12, 2014 02:38 PM (LWu6U)

330 >>There were two a couple of days back. One called itself Tasmanian Devil and I don't remember the other one. Realist.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 12, 2014 02:39 PM (g1DWB)

331 Nice story, Ace. Except she likely is guilty. Her frequent changes of story, her implicating first Lumumba and then her boyfriend, her obvious ex post facto explanations of why she changed her story so often, along with many other facts certainly support a guilty verdict. It's nice to see that the Italian jury wasn't as easily swayed by appeals to emotion as our system so often is. Perhaps she didn't kill the poor girl, but she certainly played a role in her death.

Posted by: Pigilito at February 12, 2014 02:39 PM (AW99N)

332 Wow I thought it was bad when my college room mate said her mother's college room mate was-- Sharon Tate.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:39 PM (RJMhd)

333 See this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zLUiLCx3vY at the 41:25 mark and you'll see the same corruption at work in an Italian air crash investigation. It's as if 911-truthers were in charge of the 911 congressional committees.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at February 12, 2014 02:40 PM (h53OH)

334 Damn Maet. Very sorry to hear that.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 12, 2014 02:40 PM (GEICT)

335 267 "Italy wasn't even a country until 1861. It was a collection of city-states for its entire history." And those city-states were brutal bastards to each other.

Posted by: Tuna at February 12, 2014 02:40 PM (M/TDA)

336 If she's innocent what was she doing in Italy when her roommate died? Sounds fishy, especially since she's whore.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 12, 2014 02:40 PM (38LLM)

337

Mark it.

 

331 @ 6:39

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 02:41 PM (LI48c)

338 71. BELGIAN detective. Poirot was Belgian not French (and says just that at least once in every story he appears in due to that exact confusion)

Posted by: ginaswo at February 12, 2014 02:41 PM (I3Aay)

339 That was in college. He was the brother of the guy I rented from, who also lived in my apt. He just showed up one day and crashed on the couch for three months.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:41 PM (gtjN1)

340 I found DNA in my bathroom and one of my bread knives has starch on it.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:41 PM (6bMeY)

341 How the heck do people assume guilty? Does that come from being jaundiced--or actually being in the legal profession?

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:42 PM (RJMhd)

342 I would sooner used Nancy Pelosi as a source of wisdom than Nancy Grace. Posted by: JackStraw at February 12, 2014 06:29 PM (g1DWB) Nancy Grace should be in fucking jail. Wait, ABC News doesn't know what party Nagin belongs to, I am shocked.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:42 PM (0FSuD)

343 If Ted Cruz had a daughter, she'd look like Amanda Knox.

Posted by: Stew Pidlib at February 12, 2014 02:43 PM (1Y+hH)

344 her story changed because she didn't speak Italian fluently yet, and they were not great at providing interpreters there are plenty of cases of false confession, young people are particularly susceptable

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:43 PM (zOTsN)

345 Oh the Humanity! Sinkhole swallows pricey Corvettes at hallowed museum http://is.gd/mAO9CB They can just use one of those giant magnets to recover them... oh, wait.

Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (V1V9z)

346 You want some good farts? I just ate three White Castle sliders. Those frozen ones are pretty good if you add a pickle, salt and some mustard.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (0FSuD)

347 71. BELGIAN detective. Poirot was Belgian not French (and says just that at least once in every story he appears in due to that exact confusion) "I'm not a Frenchie! I'm a Belgie!"

Posted by: Milo Perrier in 'Murder by Death' at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (MMC8r)

348
Perhaps she didn't kill the poor girl, but she certainly played a role in her death.

Posted by: Pigilito at February 12, 2014 06:39 PM (AW99N)



Perhaps you should remove your head from your ass.   Perhaps...

Posted by: Jules ( turning Chinese ) at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (omBWL)

349 For a more lighthearted look at Italy, there is always the John Grisham novel Playing for Pizza.

Its about a third string American quarterback on the Cleveland Browns who manages to turn in the single worse performance ever.  The Browns cut him and no team in the US wants him.  So his agent finds him an Italian team for him to play on - the Mighty Panthers of Parma.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (4w7wl)

350 Why even have a trial if you are gonna let the killer go to school during the day?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (6bMeY)

351 Posted by: Pigilito at February 12, 2014 06:39 PM (AW99N) Little Pig, none of what you referenced would support an indictment in the USA, but in Italy, yes, it's different as you know.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 12, 2014 02:44 PM (1Y+hH)

352 @331 If I was allowed to question you long enough without a lawyer or breaks I could pin JFK and Lincoln on you.

Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 02:45 PM (sOtz/)

353 Lost my best troop in a murder/suicide.

She'd called me a week prior telling me she was friends with this asshole, and she thought she could help him.  Told her "GET THE FUCK AWAY!"  She didn't listen.

He shot her in the face, then shot himself when SWAT showed up.

He's lucky.  Because I'd have found him prior to trial.

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:45 PM (4Re4i)

354 Is 3-D printing/manufacturing really the future? Doesn't seem cost effective. PBS News hour is a doing a segment on it. I don't think in the mass produced sense. It IS good for prototyping, and design visualization. One of the interesting developments in 3D printing is scaling up to do custom concrete components.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:45 PM (lo1uS)

355 There is no evidence of any of the harebrained horseshit scenarios that implicate the other two. The simplest, and supported, scenario is that one scumbag broke in and killed a girl. Nothing more.

Posted by: --- at February 12, 2014 02:46 PM (MMC8r)

356 Where did you go to college?
USC?
Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:34 PM (RJMhd)

Nope - a nice private university in the south. I believe this may have been the first murder of a student ever on campus.

But I did go to USC for graduate school and yes, once you leave its security perimeter your odds of being a crime victim double every 300 yards.

Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 02:46 PM (pAlYe)

357 352 @331 If I was allowed to question you long enough without a lawyer or breaks I could pin JFK and Lincoln on you. Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 06:45 PM (sOtz/) ********** Are you Patrick Fitzgerald--or Cardinal Richelieu's Ghost?

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (RJMhd)

358 Its about a third string American quarterback on the Cleveland Browns who manages to turn in the single worse performance ever. The Browns cut him and no team in the US wants him. So his agent finds him an Italian team for him to play on - the Mighty Panthers of Parma.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 06:44 PM (4w7wl)

 

Wheedon's 2014 season?

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (LI48c)

359 Now having said I think Knox is innocent, let me say as a parent and someone who has travelled overseas some: it is NOT a good idea to use drugs in a foreign country or get so shit faced drunk. Say what you want about America, but as an American in America you have rights that not many other people in the World do. When you leave the United States be aware of that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (nzKvP)

360 I was a prosecutor for years and this case stinks the investigation, trial and appeal and overall justice system is the quality you expect from a small tropical island that serves fruity booze with little umbrellas in them

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (zOTsN)

361 The Italian judge who has perpetrated this travesty is a nutcase who claims he can tell on first glance if people are guilty or innocent. This case shows the Italian justice system as a Third World mess. I'm surprised they don't have chickens running around the courtroom.

Posted by: Tantor at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (659DL)

362 there are plenty of cases of false confession, young people are particularly susceptible It's sort of like brainwashing. They keep you in a room you're not allowed to leave. They tell you over and over again that you did it. They restrict your food, water, and restroom access. In most places it's absolutely acceptable for the police to lie to you, including in the US. They make you repeat your story over and over again, telling you it doesn't make sense, has holes in it, is clearly a lie. Anyone who doesn't immediately have access to a lawyer is in danger of giving up mentally and saying, "Sure, whatever you say, just make it stop."

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 12, 2014 02:47 PM (WhJf8)

363 352 @331 If I was allowed to question you long enough without a lawyer or breaks I could pin JFK and Lincoln on you. Posted by: Beagle at February 12, 2014 06:45 PM (sOtz/) And NOW you are saying you were not alive during the 1860's? We have you confession on tape. If you did not do it, why did you confess?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 12, 2014 02:48 PM (TGgNi)

364 346 You want some good farts? I just ate three White Castle sliders. Those frozen ones are pretty good if you add a pickle, salt and some mustard. For max methane production, chase those w/a six pack of cheap beer. I recommend Schaefer or comparable brand.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:48 PM (lo1uS)

365 Nope - a nice private university in the south. I believe this may have been the first murder of a student ever on campus. But I did go to USC for graduate school and yes, once you leave its security perimeter your odds of being a crime victim double every 300 yards. Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 06:46 PM (pAlYe) ******** Yikes--talk about weird odds. USC--yep--dangerous territory--I thought I had good odds shooting for that school so to speak.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:48 PM (RJMhd)

366 I think the $$ for the 3D printing will be in the building and selling of the machines, not the actual products produced by them.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:48 PM (YWssJ)

367 I don't think in the mass produced sense. It IS good for prototyping, and design visualization. One of the interesting developments in 3D printing is scaling up to do custom concrete components. Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 06:45 PM (lo1uS) I saw a segment on NHK where they used an MRI scan to 3d print an exact replica of a patients kidney. It allowed them to figure out how to remove an entire tumor without damaging the healthy parts of the kidney.

Posted by: The Hobo Hooker Waitress Model Actress Wears Prada at February 12, 2014 02:48 PM (GeVLX)

368 361 The Italian judge who has perpetrated this travesty is a nutcase who claims he can tell on first glance if people are guilty or innocent. This case shows the Italian justice system as a Third World mess. I'm surprised they don't have chickens running around the courtroom. Posted by: Tantor at February 12, 2014 06:47 PM (659DL) --Heh, reminds me of the old George Carlin joke about being in the pool for jury duty.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 12, 2014 02:49 PM (X3GkB)

369 You realize that everyone saying that Italian pizza is bad is because they got used to the American shit.  A food study once gave pure freshly squeezed orange juice to kids and they hated it, they had grown up on artifical shit.

Posted by: anon at February 12, 2014 02:49 PM (DEsFp)

370 Extreme Hi-tech machinery to create, for instance, a pair of plastic shoes.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:50 PM (YWssJ)

371 For max methane production, chase those w/a six pack of cheap beer. I recommend Schaefer or comparable brand. Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 06:48 PM (lo1uS) They still make Schaefers? Wow. Only thing worse? Maybe Iron Shitty or Old Style? They still make Blatz? It was only good at minus 5 degrees.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:50 PM (0FSuD)

372 @357 Oh crap. Back to the time machine before things get out of hand.

Posted by: Savonarola at February 12, 2014 02:50 PM (sOtz/)

373 Tickets for Derek JeterÂ’s final game at Yankee Stadium already selling for $11,000 on secondary market The cheapest seat in the House that Steinbrenner built for the Sept. 25, 2014 game against the Orioles is an obstructed view seat with a $285.50 asking price. News travels fast I guess

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:50 PM (nzKvP)

374

Question:

 

How many "cards" did the protester in tiananmen square have?  Imagine if his fellow protesters pulled him away and berated him as crazy.

 

 

This is not the hill to die on.  Ever.  B/c moderation.  B/c buttfucking.  B/c polls.

 

Shameful.

Posted by: prescient11 at February 12, 2014 02:51 PM (tVTLU)

375 I guess it's pizza for dinner.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 12, 2014 02:51 PM (38LLM)

376 They still make Schaefer beer?

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:51 PM (YWssJ)

377 re: Curling - Can v. GBrit : Bunch of women standing around asking 'Is it in?'.

Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 02:51 PM (V1V9z)

378 /retarded VP sock

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:51 PM (X3GkB)

379 @376 What, now commentators double post? WTF @371 Great minds and all that shit.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:53 PM (0FSuD)

380 They still make Schaefer beer? Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 06:51 PM (YWssJ) No, but I could pee and freeze it and you would not be able to tell the difference

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 02:53 PM (nzKvP)

381 309 Jennifer Jones > Muirhead Russian Skip puts them both to shame. Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 06:35 PM (V1V9z) --I'm talking skill more than hotness. Jones is like the '89 49ers right now.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 02:53 PM (X3GkB)

382 But I can adopt a hundred Chinese kids, fed them rice and water, and they'll manufacture anything I want for cost.

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:54 PM (YWssJ)

383 No, but I could pee and freeze it and you would not be able to tell the difference Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 06:53 PM (nzKvP) THAT would be an improvement.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:54 PM (0FSuD)

384 Posted by: Mætenloch at February 12, 2014 06:46 PM (pAlYe)

I'm not teaching this semester, (too many PhD candidates... I'm Wolowitz the guy with the masters).  But CO allows students to carry, provided their 21 etc etc. 

I asked the class on the day of finals this last Dec how many of them carried over the course of the semester.  A good 20% did.

I carried or had my Glock in my back and an exfil plan for every classroom I taught in.

Good kids.  Don't sell this generation short.  There's a lot of solid out there.

Posted by: tangonine at February 12, 2014 02:54 PM (4Re4i)

385 RayNaginRayNaginRayNagin just needed to say that.

Posted by: BignJames at February 12, 2014 02:55 PM (ZNQKl)

386 377 re: Curling - Can v. GBrit : Bunch of women standing around asking 'Is it in?'. Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 06:51 PM (V1V9z) ***************** Someone--take the shot!!

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 02:55 PM (RJMhd)

387 Its about a third string American quarterback on the Cleveland Browns who manages to turn in the single worse performance ever. The Browns cut him and no team in the US wants him. So his agent finds him an Italian team for him to play on - the Mighty Panthers of Parma.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 12, 2014 06:44 PM (4w7wl)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

This story is very much like Obama's story.

Posted by: Soona at February 12, 2014 02:56 PM (5XB5E)

388 chocolate city mayor finds himself deep in the brown. oh fudge

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:56 PM (zOTsN)

389 Nude Doom Kittah

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 02:56 PM (QupBk)

390 They still make Schaefers? Wow. I was wondering that very thing as i typed.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 12, 2014 02:56 PM (lo1uS)

391 nood now you see it, now you don't

Posted by: Soothsayer says, at February 12, 2014 02:57 PM (YWssJ)

392 Schaefer sucked. Weideman was good.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 02:58 PM (6bMeY)

393 About 5 years ago I flew to Tarino for a job interview with Fiat for a management role in one of their foreign hubs. Fiat stands for "Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino"-- you know them of course as they just bought Dodge. Tarino was a dump and the Fiat HQ looked like an architectural 1970's hangover. The closer you get to the Med, the more dysfunctional the country.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at February 12, 2014 02:58 PM (CItGb)

394 If your ever even remotely close to a legal problem in another country - GTFO immediately, nearest border, first flight, small boat, whatever.  Have your lawyer contact the local cops once your ass is in the wind.  Dont worry if it makes you look guilty - your the Other, your already guilty.

Posted by: Jean at February 12, 2014 02:58 PM (4JkHl)

395 I just want to warm your hearts with this wonderful story of how the democrat party in NC is going to win back the state. I am NOT making this shit up. http://tinyurl.com/pcdpf3f

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 12, 2014 02:58 PM (0FSuD)

396 from the land of sky blue waters waters from the land of pines Hamms the beer refreshing Hamms the beer refreshing Hamms

Posted by: thunderb at February 12, 2014 02:59 PM (zOTsN)

397 393 About 5 years ago I flew to Tarino for a job interview with Fiat for a management role in one of their foreign hubs. Fiat stands for "Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino"-- you know them of course as they just bought Dodge.

Tarino was a dump and the Fiat HQ looked like an architectural 1970's hangover.

The closer you get to the Med, the more dysfunctional the country.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at February 12, 2014 06:58 PM (CItGb)

 

Liar.  It stands for Fix It Again Tony.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 02:59 PM (LI48c)

398 doom

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 12, 2014 03:01 PM (T2V/1)

399 I guess it's pizza for dinner. Mushroom, Spinach and Meatball Pizza sounds like a good dinner to me. --I'm talking skill more than hotness. Jones is like the '89 49ers right now. Hotness doesn't factor into scoring?

Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 03:01 PM (V1V9z)

400 Macy's is putting my daughter up in a Hotel tonight near the Store. OK, fine dandy, but with the forecast we are getting they should just shut the Store tomorrow?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 12, 2014 03:02 PM (nzKvP)

401 See, their theory has just been completely refuted, but no sweat, it just needs to be tweaked. Sort of like Global Warming.

Posted by: Socratease at February 12, 2014 03:05 PM (SZUi2)

402 Give Italy the boot!

Posted by: whoever at February 12, 2014 03:05 PM (kGSN0)

403 I read the Monster of Florence on Ace's review a few months back. Worth the read, I couldn't put it down.

Posted by: New boss not like the old boss at February 12, 2014 03:07 PM (LxUae)

404 @352 No, you wouldn't be able to do that. Stop fooling yourself. She had plenty of breaks, she had plenty of time to work on her stories and they still changed in an effort to explain evidence away. She even wrote statements in English. Those have been shown to be false as well. There was more than enough evidence to support a conviction.

Posted by: Pigilito at February 12, 2014 03:10 PM (AW99N)

405 >> And no contrary to common campus rumor you do not get automatic A's if your roommate dies.
 
Maet, shoulda gone to Harvard; average grade there is A-. No dying roommates needed.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 12, 2014 03:10 PM (wNF3N)

406 @397 buzzion "Fix It Again Tony." LMAO. Buzz, you made my night. I've never heard that one.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at February 12, 2014 03:14 PM (CItGb)

407 A friend of mine who spent a few days in an Italian jail described his experience to me once upon a time, and the basic message was "don't go to Italy without having a good idea of who your lawyer will be if you get in trouble". Not only is the Italian system surreal from start to finish, but finding a lawyer and hiring that lawyer is very difficult to do there.

Posted by: MTF at February 12, 2014 03:16 PM (7ynIk)

408 I have no dog in the guilty or innocent ring, but Amanda Knox annoys the hell out of me because here in the Seattle area the media coverage of her was out of control nuts. I mean to the point that they were analyzing t-shirts she wore in junior high to see if it meant she was innocent or guilty. I think one journalist here even pretty much fell in love with her and his writing became more the type of lovesick puppy poems than any actual reporting.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at February 12, 2014 03:17 PM (RZ8pf)

409 331. Wait a minute... Changing your story in the absence of any physical evidence is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed murder? Didn't Guede change his story, too?

Posted by: Socratease at February 12, 2014 03:21 PM (SZUi2)

410 You tend to change your story when they slap the shit out of you.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 12, 2014 03:23 PM (6bMeY)

411 She had plenty of breaks, she had plenty of time to work on her stories and they still changed in an effort to explain evidence away. She even wrote statements in English. Those have been shown to be false as well. There was more than enough evidence to support a conviction. Posted by: Pigilito at February 12, 2014 07:10 PM (AW99N) And exactly what 'evidence' did she explain away....since, ya know...there wasn't any 'evidence'? And what 'evidence' was there to support a conviction? Be specific....and give me actual evidence.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 03:30 PM (bCEmE)

412 And exactly what 'evidence' did she explain away....since, ya know...there wasn't any 'evidence'? And what 'evidence' was there to support a conviction? Be specific....and give me actual evidence.

Posted by: Tami at February 12, 2014 07:30 PM (bCEmE)

 

I bet they don't have the balls to respond.  And if they surprisingly do I can predict what evidence they will mention.  Hint: Barley.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 03:31 PM (LI48c)

413 I bet they don't have the balls to respond. And if they surprisingly do I can predict what evidence they will mention. Hint: Barley. Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 07:31 PM (LI48c) That reminds me...I should make some chicken/barley soup this week. Thanks buzz!

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 03:33 PM (bCEmE)

414 @410 Boss Moss "You tend to change your story when they slap the shit out of you." Yes. Yes. I did it. I set a bomb on the Hindenburg.

Posted by: Lee Harvey Oswald at February 12, 2014 03:34 PM (CItGb)

415 Hotness doesn't factor into scoring? Posted by: garrett at February 12, 2014 07:01 PM (V1V9z) --It does, but for a different kind of scoring.

Posted by: logprof at February 12, 2014 03:40 PM (X3GkB)

416 I bet they don't have the balls to respond. An effin Nostradamus you.

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 03:40 PM (QupBk)

417 416 I bet they don't have the balls to respond.

An effin Nostradamus you.

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 07:40 PM (QupBk)

 

Let me know when an interpretation of one of my comments predicts the rise of Hitler would you?

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 03:43 PM (LI48c)

418 --Italy is a second world shithole grafted onto a marginal first world country. === First world = democracies Second world = communist Third world = you know I don't know what you call a place that democratically elects communists, like Italy or New York.

Posted by: whoever at February 12, 2014 03:45 PM (kGSN0)

419 I don't know what you call a place that democratically elects communists, like Italy or New York.

Posted by: whoever at February 12, 2014 07:45 PM (kGSN0)

 

Stupid.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 03:46 PM (LI48c)

420 Let me know when an interpretation of one of my comments predicts the rise of Hitler would you? If I was sharper, I'd start commenting in mysterious quatrains.

Posted by: toby928© at February 12, 2014 03:47 PM (QupBk)

421 >>>I have no dog in the guilty or innocent ring, but Amanda Knox annoys the hell out of me because here in the Seattle area the media coverage of her was out of control nuts. I mean to the point that they were analyzing t-shirts she wore in junior high to see if it meant she was innocent or guilty. I think one journalist here even pretty much fell in love with her and his writing became more the type of lovesick puppy poems than any actual reporting. i understand that but bear in mind she had nothing to do with the media maelstrom, except for existing, and being accused of a crime she didn't commit.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 03:51 PM (/FnUH)

422 >>>I read the Monster of Florence on Ace's review a few months back. Worth the read, I couldn't put it down. coolio, always good to hear a recco went over well.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 03:51 PM (/FnUH)

423 Wait...Holder has declared all state laws that bar felons from voting illegal? Gee, guess which party this benefits.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 03:52 PM (NRYdU)

424 I belong to various crime and punishment forums and the ones who believe every criminal no matter how guilty is a fluffy bunny and innocent invariably believed Knox was guilty and the devil incarnate. I can only chock this up to anti-americanism and leftardism.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 03:58 PM (NRYdU)

425 i understand that but bear in mind she had nothing to do with the media maelstrom, except for existing, and being accused of a crime she didn't commit.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 07:51 PM (/FnUH)


Well, and being cute.  That's her fault.  More chocolate and bacon, less investment in skin care products and hair cuts -- a lot of her problems go away.

Posted by: Jean at February 12, 2014 04:00 PM (4JkHl)

426 I heard it was Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation.

Posted by: VKI at February 12, 2014 04:00 PM (qySNZ)

427 Or as the Italians would say it, arriverdercci.

This is why my texts always end in ciao.  So far, no murder accusations.  Must be working.

Posted by: Phinn at February 12, 2014 04:01 PM (KOGmz)

428 This is why my texts always end in ciao. So far, no murder accusations. Must be working. Posted by: Phinn at February 12, 2014 08:01 PM (KOGmz) You know ciao derives from the word slave, don't you? Say that to the wrong person and they may Zimmerman you ass....

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 12, 2014 04:06 PM (NRYdU)

429 And don't we share something like 42% genetic similarities with bananas? === Some of us much, much more.

Posted by: whoever at February 12, 2014 04:36 PM (kGSN0)

430 Greetings: One of the subsidiary benefits of attending CAtholic schools in the Bronx of the '50s and '60, was my introduction to the war between the Oyrish and the Eye-talians. Or, as my father so succinctly put it, "With them Eye-ties, what isn't an opera is a vendetta.

Posted by: 11B40 at February 12, 2014 04:37 PM (cZNCy)

431 >>>I belong to various crime and punishment forums and the ones who believe every criminal no matter how guilty is a fluffy bunny and innocent invariably believed Knox was guilty and the devil incarnate. I can only chock this up to anti-americanism and leftardism. I believe Candace Dempsey mentioned that, at the time of this murder, anti-Americanism was high in Europe due to Iraq.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 04:42 PM (/FnUH)

432 The more I read about the justice system (in any country - and, yes, the USA!), the more I realize how truly fucked up it is. Everywhere. Stay away if you can!

Posted by: Tonic Dog at February 12, 2014 04:51 PM (MH+Jr)

433 >>>Well, and being cute. That's her fault. More chocolate and bacon, less investment in skin care products and hair cuts -- a lot of her problems go away. yup. Some feminist who I usually think is an idiot wrote a book that suggested a lot of the problem here had to do with sex, men being a little bit unsure of what to do with Amanda because she was hot, women being sort of jealous, just a general mix of weird primitive sex stuff causing people to act irrationally. I haven't read that book, and I doubt I would go as far as she does, but there certainly is SOME truth in this, that Amanda Knox, for whatever reason, just wigged people out by being attractive, young, and female. Rafael Sollecito is a good-looking kid, and he's accused of all the same nonsense Amanda Knox is, but you NEVER hear about him. That's why I make it a point to always mention him. Sollecito? No one cares. Yeah yeah, he was 'in on the murder" too. But people ONLY talk about Amanda Knox. Why? If this is just about the murder, and if Sollecito and Knox did it together, he's every bit as culpable as she is. So why does everyone almost completely forget he exists? Because of this weird thing that's taken shape around Amanda Knox, where she has come to represent all of people's primal fears and desires about feminine desirability.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 04:53 PM (/FnUH)

434 >>>The more I read about the justice system (in any country - and, yes, the USA!), the more I realize how truly fucked up it is. Everywhere. Stay away if you can! yeah this case has made me a lot less "Law & Order" than I used to be. Whereas before I would typically dismiss claims of coercion, now I'm at least ready to hear the claim.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 04:54 PM (/FnUH)

435 speaking of primal stuff, hard-wired into our lizard-brains... the italian press was always, ALWAYS nattering on about Amanda Knox's "ICE-BLUE EYES," as if... I mean, what century is this? The suggestion made 1000 times by the press is that Italians could see that Amanda Knox was evil by her cold, prussian-blue nordic eyes.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 04:56 PM (/FnUH)

436 [i\yup. Some feminist who I usually think is an idiot wrote a book that suggested a lot of the problem here had to do with sex, men being a little bit unsure of what to do with Amanda because she was hot, women being sort of jealous, just a general mix of weird primitive sex stuff causing people to act irrationally.

I haven't read that book, and I doubt I would go as far as she does, but there certainly is SOME truth in this, that Amanda Knox, for whatever reason, just wigged people out by being attractive, young, and female.

Rafael Sollecito is a good-looking kid, and he's accused of all the same nonsense Amanda Knox is, but you NEVER hear about him. That's why I make it a point to always mention him.

Sollecito? No one cares. Yeah yeah, he was 'in on the murder" too. But people ONLY talk about Amanda Knox.

Why? If this is just about the murder, and if Sollecito and Knox did it together, he's every bit as culpable as she is.

So why does everyone almost completely forget he exists?

Because of this weird thing that's taken shape around Amanda Knox, where she has come to represent all of people's primal fears and desires about feminine desirability.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 08:53 PM (/FnUH) [/i]

 

That's actually pretty easy to explain ace.  First off, she is American.  So for us here that is of course going to be a focus.  And for the Italians, you do also have that anti-Americanism along with otherism.

 

And second: Tonya Harding.  It was more her husband and friend who actually did the attack on Kerrigan, but is the focus on them?  Nope, its on Tonya Harding.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 04:57 PM (LI48c)

437 Because of this weird thing that's taken shape around Amanda Knox, where she has come to represent all of people's primal fears and desires about feminine desirability. Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 08:53 PM (/FnUH) ********* Well as one of your earlier comments suggests-- because she is American. Europe has this thing---almost like that song-- American Woman they think they are all whores. It's what Hollywood tells them.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:01 PM (RJMhd)

438 >>And second: Tonya Harding. It was more her husband and friend who actually did the attack on Kerrigan, but is the focus on them? Nope, its on Tonya Harding. Maybe but I think it's a little different. I mean, in that case, Tonya had the direct motive. Further, Tonya was the celebrity. And she was the ice skater and competitor to Kerrigan. Jeff Galooley wasn't. He may have done the attack, but he wasn't a player on the ice like Tonya harding was. I guess I'm trying to say this: if some random thug broke Kerrigan's leg for no reason, it wouldn't be a huge story. A story, sure, but not a huge one. What made this story huge was that this was a fellow skater, a competitor. And I know Jeff Galooley wasn't just a RANDOM thug, but he wasn't actually part of the ice skating world like Harding was. But there still might be some truth in what you're saying. except that tonya harding wasn't hot.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:02 PM (/FnUH)

439 there is a weird thing with Sollecito, as compared to Knox. The people who want to see KNOX put in jail only talk about Knox. Sure sure, they'll remember to mention "and Sollecito" too every now and again, but it's clear all their emotion is about this ICE BLUE EYED DEVIL Knox getting away with something. They're not really bothered that Sollecito is getting away with something. There is something about her, in particular. I think THEY think that people like me are just blinded to the facts by the fact that she's hot or something. Well first of all: I think she's cute. I'm not really in love with her or anything. She is an attractively fresh-faced ICE BLUE EYED DEVIL, like many other girls. And second of all, I think she's innocent because I read the Hellman-Zanotti report that freed her. It is DEVASTATING. They RIP APART the lower court. They do not say she's not guilty; they say she's INNOCENT, and they didn't have to say that. But that was their conclusion. but the Anti-Knoxers are just convinced that this ICE BLUE EYED SEX DEVIL is casting a spell on the rest of us and it's their duty to make sure her wily manipulations don't succeed.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:07 PM (/FnUH)

440 But there still might be some truth in what you're saying.

except that tonya harding wasn't hot.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 09:02 PM (/FnUH)

 

Well its not so much about the hotness as it is than that just a female is involved.  They will likely wind up getting more of a public focus even if they aren't the main culprit.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 05:08 PM (LI48c)

441 >>>Well its not so much about the hotness as it is than that just a female is involved. They will likely wind up getting more of a public focus even if they aren't the main culprit. ah yeah that's true. There have been about 1000 women murderers and every single one of them has had a lifetime movie about them. You're quite right. It's so rare to see violence from women we do always notice it.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:10 PM (/FnUH)

442

If you held up a picture of Amanda Knox and asked me "Who is this?"  I couldn't tell you.  I don't think I've seen a single image of her.

Posted by: buzzion at February 12, 2014 05:12 PM (LI48c)

443 I do think your argument that no way could she be interested in something because she is cute is a little weak.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:14 PM (RJMhd)

444 >>I do think your argument that no way could she be interested in something because she is cute is a little weak. i don't know what you mean.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:16 PM (/FnUH)

445 >>> If you held up a picture of Amanda Knox and asked me "Who is this?" I couldn't tell you. I don't think I've seen a single image of her. i've only seen her some. I know what she looks like. She is a cutie. But... there are many cute girls. The idea that she's Bewitching people with her beauty is, I don't know. I think it's a primitive idea that says more about the accuser than the accused, in terms of hang-ups about sexual desirability. Until you read the Hellman-Zanotti report, which is online and is a great read, you just can't grasp what it is to have ZERO evidence against someone. I don't mean "just a little." I mean zero. I mean goose-egg. The Italians don't use the standard of relevance for evidence. Relevance in american law means 'tending to prove something is more likely than not." Their standard is "not INconsistent" with a theory. Note that big difference. "Relevance" means "tends to prove something is more likely." Their standard is, "doesn't make it LESS likely." This is important. This is why they bring in stuff like Harry Potter books that Knox and Sollecito liked. See, it's NOT INconisistent with the theory that they were devil-worshippers that they liked harry potter books.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:21 PM (/FnUH)

446 444 >>I do think your argument that no way could she be interested in something because she is cute is a little weak. i don't know what you mean. Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 09:16 PM (/FnUH) ******** Well it wasn't in this thread. Another thread on this subject. All I know is it isn't out of the realm of possibility. I've seen young girls do some pretty stupid things because they were crazy about a guy. Really cute girls too. And you are wondering why in the hell would they do this or that--or put up with it when they could have any guy or be treated better. So--one of the situations that you think could not have happened because she is cute, young and it was early in the relationship--isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:23 PM (RJMhd)

447 The Italians don't use the standard of relevance for evidence. Relevance in american law means 'tending to prove something is more likely than not." Their standard is "not INconsistent" with a theory. Note that big difference. "Relevance" means "tends to prove something is more likely." Their standard is, "doesn't make it LESS likely." ****************** Well heck that might explain your point. She would be less likely--that is probably true. I get it now.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:27 PM (RJMhd)

448 >>>So--one of the situations that you think could not have happened because she is cute, young and it was early in the relationship--isn't completely out of the realm of possibility. oh my goodness. Okay tasker. "Isn't out of the realm of possibility." Add in zero evidence she did it, and a ton of evidence Guede did it. Add in this bizarre scenario where Knox wanted to add a shiftless hobo and murder into her blooming love affair with Rafael. Okay. Whatever. This isn't how people behave in my experience. By the way, FBI profiler John Douglas says this too. Your theory that someone with NO history of violence or deviancy could suddenly, one night, engage in a ritualistic thrill-kill is wrong. It never happens. Douglas addresses this. He says, "Yes, people who have never murdered anyone before and who have no psychiatric impulse for violence DO murder people all of a sudden." That is true. However, he adds this caveat: There is always a MOTIVE. That is, a motive beyond wanting to kill. Murder is not the goal; murder is the means to obtain the goal. The prosecutor's case is not that Amanda -- whose only police involvement was over a noise complaint for a graduation house party -- had some other reason to kill Meredith, like money, or rivalry, or bitter humiliation, or so on. Their theory is that she just killed her pretty much as a sexythrillmurder scenario. And no, that NEVER happens. People with that tic have shown evidence of a sex/violence morbidity before. No one just sparks up a joint and suddenly decides to go helter skelter.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:29 PM (/FnUH)

449 I'm reading the Hellman-Zanotti report. Had not read it before...it's fascinating. One thing that hasn't been mentioned before....they really rake Amanda's interpreter during the police questioning over the coals.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 12, 2014 05:35 PM (bCEmE)

450 Tami, I'm glad you like it. I was afraid it wouldn't be liked by too many. BUt it does a reasonable job of capsulating the story and evidence before shredding it. If only more people would read that document!

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:37 PM (/FnUH)

451 Add in this bizarre scenario where Knox wanted to add a shiftless hobo and murder into her blooming love affair with Rafael. Okay. Whatever. This isn't how people behave in my experience. ******** No--adding the hobo--I don't think in the thread I was referring to you added murder. And I think I get the point--about that --"not out of the realm of possibility" is not a legitimate standard.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:37 PM (RJMhd)

452 edit:No--adding the hobo--I don't think in the thread at the time you talked about the extra element of them adding murder. Ugh--trying to get dinner going.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:41 PM (RJMhd)

453 . Your theory that someone with NO history of violence or deviancy could suddenly, one night, engage in a ritualistic thrill-kill is wrong. It never happens. ********* Oy--never said that. anyways.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 05:42 PM (RJMhd)

454 tasker, well, like I said, douglas makes the point that there are normal psychology murders and abnormal psychology murders. Normal psychology murders are like killing a blackmailer or a sexual rival or your wife for insurance money or competitor drug-dealer. Abnormal psychology murders involve ritual and pleasure in murder just for the sake of murder. They often involve a sadomasochistic and sexual component, sublimated through violence. (or include both sex and violence.) The latter is what we think of when we think of serial killers and such. Douglas points out that the prosecutor's theory indicates an abnormal psychology murderer. Only an abnormal psychology murderer gets off on murder just for murder. And his point is that there is always a history of psychological abnormality in such murderers. Amanda Knox and Rafael Sollecito have NO HISTORy of violence, crime, or any psychological problem or problems with socialization. And he flat out says: Doesn't happen. Normal psychology profile people do not just go out and commit a ritual, sexual, or serial murder one day. It never happens, ever. Yes, normal psychology people do kill, but for a reason other than twisted sexual pleasure of murder.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:42 PM (/FnUH)

455 tasker, apologies, I don't know specifically what you're objecting to, and am guessing, and by guessing, I am putting thoughts in your head that aren't yours. I'm sorry, no offense intended. I was guessing because I actually don't understand what you are objecting to.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:46 PM (/FnUH)

456 I thought you were objecting to my observation that it is psychologically impossible to conceive of a girl with no history of weird sexual/macabre kinks suddenly deciding to do a thrill-kill sex-murder with a hobo. If you say that's "possible," I think we are debating between very fine distinctions between "possible but only in theory" and "actually impossible." I would actually call it actually impossible, based on Douglas' observations. He just says it doesn't happen. he knows of know exceptions, and he literally wrote the FBI book on profiling murderers.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:48 PM (/FnUH)

457 Ace, you should really stop trying to talk about standards of evidence, and the law in general. It is clearly not your area.

I will also point out that circumstantial evidence IS evidence.

Posted by: Chris E at February 12, 2014 05:52 PM (yQt3m)

458 I suppose if I'm speaking strictly I can't say "actually impossible." How about, "never before attested?" It is because Knox had NO MOTIVE AT ALL that the prosecutors had to cook up their Satanic Sex Murder Scenario. And John Douglas says: "No. You can't do that. You can't make up bizarre, insane motives except in cases where your subjects have a history of bizarre, insane impulses and kinks."

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:53 PM (/FnUH)

459 >>>I will also point out that circumstantial evidence IS evidence. If we're going to be snippy, allow me to snip: I didn't say there was no evidence except for circumstantial. I said there was no evidence, including a complete lack of circumstantial evidence. In fact I think circumstantial evidence is often strong. But there's none here. None. Hellman-Zanotti.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 05:54 PM (/FnUH)

460 Anybody know why there's so many Italians named Tony here? That's because their mamas wrote TO NY on their foreheads when they boarded the boat for America.

Posted by: Big Swede at February 12, 2014 05:55 PM (aZcPb)

461 Ace, why the fuck do you get so worked up over an Italian case when there is so much, and so much worse, prosecutor misconduct going on here in the states? Tyrrany is the quest for immunity.

Posted by: TimmaY at February 12, 2014 06:01 PM (5etyr)

462 There's a great write up by a retired FBI agent, where he goes into detail about just how magnificently incompetent the Perugia investigators were. It's an interesting read.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI.html

Posted by: Justin at February 12, 2014 06:01 PM (7KXNY)

463 455 tasker, apologies, I don't know specifically what you're objecting to, and am guessing, and by guessing, I am putting thoughts in your head that aren't yours. I'm sorry, no offense intended. I was guessing because I actually don't understand what you are objecting to. Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 09:46 PM (/FnUH) ******** Ya--I should apologize because I started something right when I should be signing off--and I am going off my memory instead of fetching the specifics. i guess my point is--and I am not saying that you did this --but to say because a girl is cute--she would be less likely to do something then a girl who is not cute. I think that's the basic formula I have a problem with--and I am totally not talking about the murder part of it. Just desperate over a guy and willing to do kinky crap. I don't think a girl that is cute is any less likely to do that then a girl that is ugly. Something like that--is my only point.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:02 PM (RJMhd)

464 Look, if you don't like dago justice stop eating spaghetti. Okay?

Posted by: Banjo at February 12, 2014 06:03 PM (lMtGt)

465 >>>i guess my point is--and I am not saying that you did this --but to say because a girl is cute--she would be less likely to do something then a girl who is not cute. no I never meant to suggest that. What I was saying was that I have never heard of a normal person in the beginning of a love affair feeling a need to bring murder and hobos into it to make it hot. This is where we will have to disagree on what is "possible." I do not believe this is possible. This is the Prosecutor's theory of motive, not mine. And I reject it is a impossible. It doesn't happen. I have never heard of people behaving this way. But Douglas puts it better when he observes that normal people do normal murders and abnormal people do both normal and abnormal ones. But no normal person does an abnormal murder. Douglas has told people this theory of the crime was bullshit for years. It just doesn't happen.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:05 PM (/FnUH)

466 What I was saying was that I have never heard of a normal person in the beginning of a love affair feeling a need to bring murder and hobos into it to make it hot. This is where we will have to disagree on what is "possible." I do not believe this is possible. **************** No take the murder out. Leave the hobo. I'm just saying an ugly girl will not do hobos more than a cute girl.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:07 PM (RJMhd)

467 >>>I'm just saying an ugly girl will not do hobos more than a cute girl. i don't think ugly girls will do hoboes either. If I suggested this at all, I meant something like someone at the top of the sexual food pyramid will just generally pick at the top of the pyramid.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:09 PM (/FnUH)

468 but my main point was this: I have been in the first week of love before. I have never thought I needed to add in anything odd to make it hot. The prosecutor's theory is that these two dopey lovebirds, who have only known each other one week (seven days!), suddenly realize that both are ritual killers, and pitch the idea of a ritual killer one night, and immediately do it. What? Huh?

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 06:11 PM (/FnUH)

469 467 >>>I'm just saying an ugly girl will not do hobos more than a cute girl. i don't think ugly girls will do hoboes either. If I suggested this at all, I meant something like someone at the top of the sexual food pyramid will just generally pick at the top of the pyramid. Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 10:09 PM (/FnUH) ******* Okay cool. --because that would be almost doing what the Italians did but in the opposite direction. The Italians seemed to use her looks as proof that she was guilty....so to say she didn't or wouldn't do things because she is cute and can be choosier--or less desperate to please a boyfriend she might be besotted with would be the equal and opposite reaction but both arguments I think would be -- wrong.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:13 PM (RJMhd)

470 468 but my main point was this: I have been in the first week of love before. I have never thought I needed to add in anything odd to make it hot. The prosecutor's theory is that these two dopey lovebirds, who have only known each other one week (seven days!), suddenly realize that both are ritual killers, and pitch the idea of a ritual killer one night, and immediately do it. What? Huh? Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 10:11 PM (/FnUH) ********** Ya I think we both agree that is nuts.

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:16 PM (RJMhd)

471 I'm doing some stupid hypothetical and saying--leave the murder out of it--and I'm losing the whole damn plot or narrative. I blame the Italians. This is what happens when you chase illogic--the damn Italian justice system you get lost in stupid details. ack!

Posted by: tasker at February 12, 2014 06:18 PM (RJMhd)

472 Ace-You left out the major, MAJOR fact from the Monster of Florence book: the prosecuting judge who indicted its author Doug Preston and jailed his journalist co-author with an unbelievable theory is the same prosecuting judge in the Amanda Knox case. And I never heard anything about this during the coverage of the Knox case. All media bought the outrageous theories rather than do any research.

Posted by: Dicker at February 12, 2014 06:18 PM (lcQfj)

473 Does anyone know if Amanda Knox has accepted our one true Savior, Barack Obama, into her life and embraced the principles of correct and progressive thinking?

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at February 12, 2014 06:47 PM (uetv9)

474 Dicker, I mentioned that in my review of Monster of Florence. Yes, it's pretty major. But it's also the sort of thing I'd call a "spoiler" in a movie. I'd like people to be surprised by it when they read it.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2014 08:58 PM (/FnUH)

475 "They interrogated Knox almost nonstop for three days, telling her that the killer was this black nightclub owner and they knew it, and that she was a coconspirator so why didn't she just admit it before she went to jail for life? Finally, they asked her to envision what it would have been like to see this black nightclub owner at the murder scene, and she wrote out a statement speaking of herself "having a vision" of the man at the scene." Can any of this be verified by reference to official legal documents, interview transcripts etc. or is it just one of Knox's ever changing stories about her treatment by the police?

Posted by: Teqzilla at February 13, 2014 12:59 AM (Cr1On)

476 Note to self: don't go to Italy unless I've got an entourage.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at February 13, 2014 04:56 AM (1hM1d)

477 I only caught wind of this case a couple weeks ago when ace brought it up.

Reading court documents, to say there is no evidence whatsoever is probably not true.  What they have is a highly circumstantial case, based on the fact that the murder could not have been conducted by one person, which I think is true, given the state of Kercher's body.

I am certainly not prepared to say she didn't do it, at least as emphatically as ace would.  Circumstantial cases get convictions every day.

Posted by: Detroit at February 13, 2014 05:57 AM (gT3jF)

478 Great article. Love your writing style and your authenticity. Love the humor. For those people who have become invested in this case because of a very real lack of justice, let me say, we need a bit of humor in this wretched case. So thank you. I do want to add that there WAS sperm. It's been refused to be tested. The family of Meredith asked for every stone to be unturned yet their attorney is the one who has fought so desperately from HAVING it tested. Why? Not only am I NOT sending my kids there to study abroad, I'm not going there till this is made right.I am someone who loves Italy, but this has gone much bigger and much deeper than all of us. It's been made Political. Yes, there were 3 accused, but the only one focused on really, was Amanda. It's very Anti American. I'm about justice, period. This has GOT to stop. Amanda isn't going anywhere, but Raffaele is innocent and he has been pulled into this charade of a case. He is great danger of having to return (wrongly again) to jail. I'm devastated for this young men who has so much to offer the world and who is such a kind, honest, caring, intelligent young man. I recommend "The Forgotten Killer" for a quick read (ebook), but Candace's book is my favorite so far. Thanks again. PS Scanned the comments, one person said the Italian's think she's guilty. I've asked several people there and they say that even the people in Court in Florence knew they are innocent.

Posted by: Michelle Moore at February 13, 2014 11:38 AM (ap/mr)

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