January 18, 2014

Saturday Car Thread 01/18/14 - [Niedermeyer's Dead Horse & CountrySquire]
— Open Blogger

Happy Saturday.

Now that were through the challenge of competing with America's favorite sport, I thought we might give this car thread thing another try. This week we are honored to have Moron CountrySquire contribute his take on the big reveals at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show.

Take it away, Countrysquire...


The 25th North American International Auto Show opened to the automotive press this week, and featured the world debut of several important vehicles. Car and Driver lists what they consider to be the 12 most important ones, so letÂ’s have a look at a few of those.

The big story at the show was the 2015 F-150. This has long been the best selling vehicle in the U.S. and FordÂ’s cash cow, both figuratively and literally. What is noteworthy about the new F-150 is not the LED headlights, 360 degree camera, damped tailgate, or even the new 2.7 liter EcoBoost engine, but the fact that the cab and bed are constructed of aluminum. Ford is claiming that this will make the new truck up to 700lbs lighter than the current one, so this is a BFD. No word yet on fuel mileage estimates, but it has to be a significant increase over the current model.


Fiat, Â…er Chrysler, introduced the new 200, which seems to have copied the silhouette of several sedans on the market such as the Ford Fusion. This one will look much better sitting in the rental lots at our nationÂ’s airports than the current version.

Cadillac showed the new ATS coupe, and fortunately does not share the severely angular styling of its big brother, the CTS coupe. Nice, but still no BMW, which leads us to the next car.

BMW, who I think is losing their way, showed the new M3 and M4. The M3 is the four door version, the M4 has two doors. Still with me? The proper six cylinder is back, this time with twin turbos, marking the first time that any M3 has had forced induction. We will have to wait and see if this new model will still be considered the best overall car in the world by so many.

And speaking of being blown, the new Corvette Z06 will now feature a supercharger for the first time. Making 625 horsepower, the performance should be incredible. The styling? What can you say? It looks like it was designed by 14 different guys who never met. Maybe their styling focus group was made up of eleven year old boys.

AmericaÂ’s other automotive icon, the Ford Mustang, made its US debut as well. Mustang fan sites have been leaking and speculating this carÂ’s design for several years now. I believe that they have exceeded expectations. It has finally gotten the independent rear suspension that it has always needed and will offer an EcoBoost four cylinder making 305 horsepower. Word is that the interior materials are greatly improved, but thatÂ’s a pretty low bar.


Finally, Porsche introduced the new 911 Targa, the first proper Targa since the air-cooled days. It even features the stainless band across the B pillar. Naturally, ze Gemans couldnÂ’t just give us a simple top panel, instead opting to go with an incredibly complex automatic mechanism. Still, I want one, and I want it now.


Thanks Countrysquire for the fantastic write-up!


Now, to less important matters:


Auto repair humor: Those funny little noises a car makes

This week's cruising tune brought to you by searing heat:



And to finish it off, a little homespun charm for the 'ettes:


For the morons: And you though it was the end of elbow season...


Please feel free to send all questions, compliments, or condemnations to me at teh Twitter.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:21 AM | Comments (366)
Post contains 627 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Very nice elbows NDH!

Posted by: CaveJohnson at January 18, 2014 07:26 AM (hfCDG)

2 I'm soooo Ready!!

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at January 18, 2014 07:26 AM (GjPnA)

3 Nied that's Gabe's truck isn't it?

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:27 AM (TE35l)

4 You're on your own naturalfake. You knew better.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (DmNpO)

5 The 911 Targa's top is so hilariously German. Still, if I had the means, and I wanted an open-air 911, I'm pretty sure I'd get one of those instead of the Cabriolet.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (DZcCH)

6 That babe needs some help.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (T2V/1)

7 OK, I finally get to partake in the Saturday car thread.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (8FyP4)

8 OK, I finally get to partake in the Saturday car thread. *** Yaaay! You made it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (DmNpO)

9 So, the new F-150 produces milk?  Literally?

Posted by: Dave H at January 18, 2014 07:29 AM (3AmlO)

10

Ooooh - pretty truck!

 

Oh, and for those of you who may be wondering about Jane D'oh, I sent a message to D'oh Boy through Facebook, and he messaged me back to let me know that she's doing fine, and he's going to tell her to get out of the Stone Age and back to civilization.

 

Just thought everyone would like to know that she's still kicking.... :-)

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at January 18, 2014 07:30 AM (PZ6/M)

11 That F-150 has a story behind it.  The sprung it out there with 2015 chassis and power train and put a 2014 body on it.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 18, 2014 07:31 AM (T2V/1)

12 Thanks Teresa!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:31 AM (DmNpO)

13 Yaaay! You made it. Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse Yeah, after six months at the new house, internet finally came available.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:31 AM (8FyP4)

14 The Porsche looks awkward to me. BTW, did you know that the first 911T wasn't a Targa, at all, but a coupe? It was later that the "T" designation was applied to Targas. At least that is what I recall.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:33 AM (aDwsi)

15 It's nice that they are cutting the body weight on the new F-150, but there is a big unspoken problem with the idea. When the wheelbase, size and horsepower stays about the same, and you cut the weight, a vehicle tends to want to scamper about in handling when road conditions are less than idea, like when it rains or snows.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 07:35 AM (+1T7c)

16 15 Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 11:31 AM (8FyP4)

Sounds like you made it far enough out then.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:35 AM (TE35l)

17 Here's the Targa's top in all its nutty action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7xSw7bEms#t=0m20s ♪ Transformers ... ♫

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 07:35 AM (DZcCH)

18

Hey, it's my first car thread too.

 

And to commemorate the occasion, the Mecum Auto Auction is down in Kissimmee this weekend. I'd go, but funemployment.

 

And the International Guitar Expo is also   here    this weekend.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 07:35 AM (0HooB)

19
On New Year's Eve, I saw the most clueless bling job on a car I've ever stumbled across.

Someone took a black Lincoln MKZ like this: http://tinyurl.com/mgjksgj

And outlined the car with yards of chrome window trim.  Not just around the windows, but around the wheel wells, the rocker panels, the edges of the doors, even the edges of the hood and trunk.

Stupidest looking thing.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 18, 2014 07:36 AM (kdS6q)

20 " No word yet on fuel mileage estimates, but it has to be a significant increase over the current model."


Since my 2005 F-150 gets 13 mpg on the highway and 11 mpg in town, it would be hard for them to get worse mileage.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 18, 2014 07:36 AM (BcCwi)

21 I see BMW is going to offer a 3 cylinder diesel in 2016. You know, like John Deere

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:36 AM (aDwsi)

22 Ahh the smell of a new car thread....

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:37 AM (dZGNV)

23 Prompted by a comment on the ONT a few nights ago, I went looking for the ding ding cable, that thing all gas stations had back when an attendant pumped your gas and checked your oil. The internet has All The Things:

http://www.miltonsbells.com/

Posted by: Retread at January 18, 2014 07:37 AM (cHwk5)

24 Here's the Targa's top in all its nutty action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7xSw7bEms#t=0m20s ♪ Transformers ... ♫ *** So you're saying that I can't go grocery shopping or to the laundry with the targa top out at the same time? Then I don't want one!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:37 AM (DmNpO)

25 I see BMW is going to offer a 3 cylinder diesel in 2016. You know, like John Deere Posted by: Mike Hammer Farm implements will be optional.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 07:37 AM (+1T7c)

26 That's not a truck, that's an SUV with a spot to put a couple small items outside in the back.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 07:38 AM (IV4od)

27 Heh. Nothing says $ like repairing aluminum bodywork. Also, "Hey! don't lean on that! It's aluminum!"

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:38 AM (aDwsi)

28 The 911T actually didn't have to be a targa. There was a T, an L, and an S. I had a '67 S a few years ago, when they were worth about half of what they are today. I think the first targas were introduced in '67 and had a soft back window, like on a convertible.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:39 AM (8FyP4)

29 If you can't carry a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, it ain't a truck.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 07:40 AM (IV4od)

30 12 Oh, and for those of you who may be wondering about Jane D'oh, I sent a message to D'oh Boy through Facebook, and he messaged me back to let me know that she's doing fine, and he's going to tell her to get out of the Stone Age and back to civilization. Just thought everyone would like to know that she's still kicking.... :-) Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at January 18, 2014 11:30 AM (PZ6/M) Thanks for that. I was starting to become concerned. I would like to see her back here.

Posted by: rickl at January 18, 2014 07:40 AM (sdi6R)

31 Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale this weekend.  Televised today on Fox from 1-3 MST and the National Geographic channel from 3-10 MST.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 07:40 AM (GrtrJ)

32 I want to wish Michelle Oblama a Happy 50th Birthday and we love you in my home town.

Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at January 18, 2014 07:41 AM (iB0Q2)

33 Heh. Nothing says $ like repairing aluminum bodywork. Also, "Hey! don't lean on that! It's aluminum!" Posted by: Mike Hammer Audi has been using structural aluminum pieces in the door pillars and frames for years. It is aircraft grade aluminum; dense, strong but still lighter than steel. They have special instructions for scrapping their cars to recover the aluminum, which is valuable and easier to recycle than steel. It also doesn't rust, but is more expensive.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 07:42 AM (+1T7c)

34 I hear Michelle gets Biden in the divorce.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:42 AM (dZGNV)

35 Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale this weekend. Televised today on Fox from 1-3 MST and the National Geographic channel from 3-10 MST. Posted by: DangerGirl ----------------- What I never get to see, and what I would find interesting, are the Thursday/Friday auctions before the high-rollers get involved. I think that that there might might be some interesting and affordable rides sold then.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:42 AM (aDwsi)

36 17 Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 11:35 AM (+1T7c)

It also adversely impacts dedicated hauling stability for long trips.

I am wanting a 250-450 class diesel to haul travel trailers with, a too light body leads to road hop and lateral wobble in winds...

probably wind up having to get add-on spilers to prevent Air Cushioning at highway speeds under load.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:42 AM (TE35l)

37 Oops sorry off topic.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:43 AM (dZGNV)

38 http://www.miltonsbells.com/ Posted by: Retread at January 18, 2014 11:37 AM (cHwk5) **** I may have to get one of those if I open up an obesity clinic, for the work bays er. waiting room

Posted by: Dr. Ruth Westheimer, diminutive sex therapist extraordinaire at January 18, 2014 07:43 AM (g4TxM)

39 Weird how the people who correct our pronunciation of "Jag-Wahr" cannot utter the word "Ah-Loom-ih-num" without adding a syllable. wankers. -

Posted by: American Stig at January 18, 2014 07:43 AM (NQyj0)

40 "BMW, who I think is losing their way..." Having had at least one since the '70s, BMW has been losing their way since the last E36 rolled off the lines and they went into yuppie pander full time. Closest things these days to a real BMW is the 1 series, and the damn things don't even have dipsticks. Speaking of F-150s, if they wanted to lose 700 lbs, all they had to do was stop making the things so damn Brobdinagian.

Posted by: Mohammed Xavier O'Malley at January 18, 2014 07:44 AM (uN4Ye)

41
What I never get to see, and what I would find interesting, are the Thursday/Friday auctions before the high-rollers get involved. I think that that there might might be some interesting and affordable rides sold then.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 11:42 AM (aDwsi)



They do air them, but I never get to see them anymore since we got rid of cable/satellite.  It's almost impossible to find a feed online.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 07:44 AM (GrtrJ)

42 The aluminum alloys that they use today are said to be more dent resistant than steel. Most of the body panels on my Spyder are aluminum and it doesn't have any dings yet. We had an NSX a few years ago and it would ding fairly easily.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:44 AM (8FyP4)

43 In news of the circular, Nascar is reportedly about to change up their Chase (post-season) to make it even more like stick and ball sports. Nascar's chairman, Brian France (the 3rd gen of the France family to run things) is determined to create more "game 7" moments in Nascar. That's why the Chase was introduced a decade ago. Originally the Chase had 10 drivers make it. Then Dale Jr missed it. So it was expanded to 12. Then last year they had 13 for a very complicated reasons that mostly involved Jeff Gordon being in 13th position. Sponsorship money is tight in Nascar. Nascar has been seriously enfuckened by the Obama economy, mostly on purpose. The money is especially tight for teams that don't make the Chase cause media coverage plummets for the non-Chase teams. No TV time, no sponsor money. So Nascar is, reportedly, gonna expand the Chase again. This time to 16. That makes the sponsor's happy. But doesn't guarantee more "game 7" moments. The Chase created more drama than before, but still often only had 2 drivers in contention in the final race, often with the leader having a sizeable lead. So Jimmie Johnson would only have to finish 20th or so on the final race to win the Championship. So the new twist is elimination races. Every 3rd race in the new Chase, the bottom 4 drivers will be kicked out. So 16 make the Chase (which has 10 races in it), then after race 3 of the Chase the bottom 4 are booted, leaving 12 drivers. After race 6 the bottom 4 are booted again, leaving 8 drivers. After race 9 the bottom 4 are booted again, leaving 4 drivers. For the final race these final 4 drivers have their points reset so they are tied and whoever finishes best in the final race wins. The goal is to create more "win or go home" moments. More "game 7" moments.. It's very gimmicky and craps on Nascar's tradition. So the hard-core fans will probably hate it. Nascar is counting on them bitching and moaning but still watching. The gimmicks are intended to create more drama and draw in more casual fans for the elimination races. In a crowded sports market, Nascar has been having trouble getting noticed. This is either desperate or genius. Maybe both.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 18, 2014 07:45 AM (ZPrif)

44

Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale this weekend. Televised today on Fox from 1-3 MST and the National Geographic channel from 3-10 MST.

 

Yeah,  the Mecum show should be on one of these three zillion cable channels here.  I almost prefer it to   BJ  since they  don't have as many exotic cars.  If I was working, I could actually afford   an  old  musclecar.

 

In case S.  Claus  is lurking, my dream is a '68 Z-28.  Best sounding   small block Chevy evah.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 07:45 AM (0HooB)

45 34 Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale this weekend. Televised today on Fox from 1-3 MST and the National Geographic channel from 3-10 MST. Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 11:40 AM (GrtrJ) i was supposed to go last night it is so much fun

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 40 days until spring training at January 18, 2014 07:45 AM (u8GsB)

46 42 American - Heh. You think that's funny, they pronounce 'Plexiglass', 'Perspex', and 'trunk' as 'boot'. Go figure.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (aDwsi)

47 Who does do these people at Ford think the are? A truck made with aluminum and a superior warranty.

Posted by: $100,000 plus fancy pants cars at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (mETGQ)

48 Remember: you only care about someone if youÂ’re dedicated to compelling someone else to give money to an effort.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (e8kgV)

49 Is it just me or does the Mustang look like a puffy 280Z?

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (dZGNV)

50 Yeah, I just do not see that the new F-150 would be very practical carrying loads, or hauling trailers. At highway speeds, it would wobble and sway terribly. It sounds like Ford is trying to surreptitiously enter the "luxury" truck market.

Posted by: DaveinNC at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (/NgNT)

51 probably wind up having to get add-on spilers to prevent Air Cushioning at highway speeds under load. Posted by: Sven 10077 In short, I think that aluminum structural parts on regular cars can make a lot of sense. On trucks, well, maybe not. The mass and balance are going to make the thing a little dangerous to handle. Pick-up trucks tend to be a little top heavy anyways when not under any kind of load, and this could make it even worse.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (+1T7c)

52 New Mustang...a LOT of hype but when I look at it, I am somehow underwhelmed.  It's okay, but then, I'm an old Mustang fan.  If I ever had the money (which is easy to say, because I'll never), I'd still have no problem buying a new one, though.

Posted by: Mr_Write at January 18, 2014 07:46 AM (Jnqac)

53 Nascar appears to have leaked these plans to gauge fan and driver feedback. If it's overwhelmingly negative they might back off. I'm just a casual fan so I don't really mind. And I like gimmicks and change so I'm curious to see if it would work. Might fail massively.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 18, 2014 07:47 AM (ZPrif)

54 "In a crowded sports market, Nascar has been having trouble getting noticed. This is either desperate or genius. Maybe both." NASCAR's been in trouble ever since they turned the figure-8 track into weird shapes like ovals and tri-ovals. Bring back Figure 8 tracks, you bring back the money. ... in my opinion.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at January 18, 2014 07:47 AM (NQyj0)

55 In case S. Claus is lurking, my dream is a '68 Z-28. Best sounding small block Chevy evah. Posted by: BackwardsBoy ---------------- My advice is the '69. It's just better, and, staggered rear shocks. I can tell you that the '68 had a *serious* axle tramp problem.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:48 AM (aDwsi)

56 Only reason Ford is using aluminum is because the supply for decent steel is volatile. As if we ran out of iron ore in the U.S., we now almost solely dependent on China for steel. Crap steel.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 07:48 AM (IV4od)

57 This!

"If you can't carry a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, it ain't a truck.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 11:40 AM (IV4od)"


Posted by: Mr_Write at January 18, 2014 07:48 AM (Jnqac)

58 There were several seven figure sales yesterday at the high end auctions in Scottsdale. The Gooding Co. auction starts today at noon CST and will be broadcast on their website. The feature car is a McLaren F1 LM which they are estimating at $5-7 million. I think that it will top that. It will be fun to watch.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:49 AM (8FyP4)

59 yeah I am thinking about getting a car pretty soon.
have been thinking about the mazda M3.
what do you think?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 18, 2014 07:49 AM (9GG/0)

60 25 Prompted by a comment on the ONT a few nights ago, I went looking for the ding ding cable, that thing all gas stations had back when an attendant pumped your gas and checked your oil. The internet has All The Things: http://www.miltonsbells.com/ Posted by: Retread at January 18, 2014 11:37 AM (cHwk5) That is way cool. I had practically forgotten about them. I see they have entered the wireless electronic age as well. I had to close the tab, though, as it was starting to become annoying.

Posted by: rickl at January 18, 2014 07:49 AM (sdi6R)

61 Damn I meant the Corvette. Pain pills and no sleep.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:49 AM (dZGNV)

62 Here's a photo of the F-150 with the standard cab. http://bit.ly/1dGje59

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (DmNpO)

63 Speaking of F-150s, you definitely want this accessory.


http://tinyurl.com/lf4ydg6

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (BcCwi)

64 and is aluminum really cheaper than steel now?  that is crazy if true.  the process to make aluminum is *so* energy intensive compared to steel.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (9GG/0)

65 54 Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 11:46 AM (+1T7c)

Thing is the control freak DC "warrior" class are trying to make privately owned trucks extinct I think with the CAFE standards.  You are absolutely correct from a logic standpoint.  That's why you and I may be smiling as we die, because we'll be headed to a world where logic is valued.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (TE35l)

66 And here's the side-view of the extended cab http://bit.ly/1b9V8eN

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (DmNpO)

67 Cup holders!

Posted by: --- at January 18, 2014 07:50 AM (MMC8r)

68 Honestly, I can't stand what I call the "15" models of trucks (Ram 1500s, F150s, etc)... those stupidly short beds are worthless...



At some point in the future, if things don't go downhill for me, I may get a used truck and by damn it's going to have a *proper* bed!

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at January 18, 2014 07:51 AM (IPz9m)

69 The British word for aluminum is actually a different word, spelled aluminium. So not really an add-an-extra-syllable pronunciation problem, more of an add-an-extra-letter spelling problem. Sort of like colour.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 18, 2014 07:51 AM (g4TxM)

70 67 chemjeff at January 18, 2014 11:50 AM (9GG/0)

No Jeff, this is about Cafe Standards and the necessary machining costs I'd wager.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:51 AM (TE35l)

71 Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 11:49 AM (8FyP4)


Thank you so much, I can stream that to the TV.  YAY!

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 07:51 AM (GrtrJ)

72 The aluminum ( at high cost) may be attributed to O'blamers energy policy. Combine high fuel prices and insane EPA mandates for fleet mileage, and what you get are less and less desirable vehicles. O'Bama and the greenies regard that truck the same way that they do coal-fired plants. Yeah, you can have one, but it's gonna cost you big time.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:52 AM (aDwsi)

73 You forgot to mention the 635 pound-feet of torque along with the 625 horse power on the ZO6.

Posted by: YIKES! at January 18, 2014 07:52 AM (mETGQ)

74 Quoting lowandslow: "Only reason Ford is using aluminum is because the supply for decent steel is volatile. As if we ran out of iron ore in the U.S., we now almost solely dependent on China for steel."

Other than improved towing capacity and increased mileage goal of 15%+, and other than the great availability of aluminum, you may be right.

Posted by: Mr_Write at January 18, 2014 07:52 AM (Jnqac)

75 PGA Tour also create a post-season last decade -- the Fedex Cup. Same reason as Nascar, to try and create more drama and get more TV viewers for the end of the season. Of course, in golf, nobody every really cared about "season champion". We just care about who wins the majors. NHRA (drag racing) also created a playoff system last decade. I assume the TV partners of all these leagues strongly suggested that. Problem is the casual fans (like me) often only tune in to a sport when its in the post-season. So all the sports that didn't have playoffs started making one up.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 18, 2014 07:52 AM (ZPrif)

76 "and is aluminum really cheaper than steel now?"

It's damn close.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 07:53 AM (IV4od)

77 i like the new corvette and mustang....i saw the new caddy at the phoenix car show.....it was just ok....beemer looks nice...i'm thinking about the f150 as the next addition....

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 40 days until spring training at January 18, 2014 07:53 AM (u8GsB)

78 "Pick-up trucks tend to be a little top heavy anyways when not under any kind of load, and this could make it even worse.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 11:46 AM (+1T7c)"



Please explain how removing 700 pounds from the top end of a truck will make it more top heavy.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 18, 2014 07:53 AM (BcCwi)

79 59 lowandslow at January 18, 2014 11:48 AM (IV4od)

You can thank EPA, even if we could disrupt the union attacks on the competitiveness of US Steel you'd have to recertify all the dead kiln operations' enviro impact statements...

No way in hell it is happening.

I'd love for the US to get to work using ceramics in motors as well, all of this suck is voluntary and it is being done on purpose.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:53 AM (TE35l)

80 yeah I am thinking about getting a car pretty soon. have been thinking about the mazda M3. what do you think? Posted by: chemjeff ------------------- I like the styling. The car mags generally say it's a zippy ride.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 07:54 AM (aDwsi)

81 The weight reduction like sven said allows a smaller engine with supposedly the same performance with higher gas mileage.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at January 18, 2014 07:54 AM (dZGNV)

82 62 yeah I am thinking about getting a car pretty soon.
have been thinking about the mazda M3.
what do you think?

Posted by: chemjeff at January 18, 2014 11:49 AM (9GG/0)



What are you looking for...family car?  Fun car?  How many people do you need to fit in it?

(hint - if it is no more than two, then I highly recommend the Scion FR-S for F.U.N.)

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 07:54 AM (GrtrJ)

83 When the wheelbase, size and horsepower stays about the same, and you cut the weight, a vehicle tends to want to scamper about in handling when road conditions are less than ideal, like when it rains or snows. -Ribald Conservative So do like pickmup drivers always do, fill the bed with snow, hay bales, or (always a favorite) firewood. Weight loss problem resolved. § I, car buffs. I aren't much of one, but.... Ahead of me at the stoplight yesterday, an ordinary-looking SUV branded Lincoln Mark X. ?!? That is not my step-father's Lincoln!

Posted by: webworker - is probably not running for Coburn's Senate seat at January 18, 2014 07:55 AM (yFFC0)

84 Hubby wants to replace our 3/4 ton truck that can haul 12,000lbs with a 4x4 F150 when we move to Co. I said that as long as it can haul at least 10, 000 easily I'll think about it. I have two large horses. 1,200 and 1,600lbs and an oversized trailer to haul them in. Now #1's "11 fiesta has been in the garage waiting to have warranty covered repair of the trans. Took 4 weeks waiting for parts, THEN they called to make the appointment for repairs which is not till February 12th. Not sure I will let hubby get the F150.

Posted by: California Witch at January 18, 2014 07:55 AM (Xcvk0)

85 Oh and I do like the Mazda 3, but have no experience with it.  Styling is sweet though.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 07:56 AM (GrtrJ)

86 What are you looking for...family car? Fun car? How many people do you need to fit in it?(hint - if it is no more than two, then I highly recommend the Scion FR-S for F.U.N.)

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 11:54 AM (GrtrJ)


It would be just for me, so yeah more for fun than for family.  I looked at the FR-S and that's a little out of my price range plus worse fuel economy

Posted by: chemjeff at January 18, 2014 07:56 AM (9GG/0)

87 Re car show photos: Where are the hood girls?

Posted by: In the bunker at January 18, 2014 07:57 AM (lFQfB)

88 My wife forbade me from buying a pick'em-up truck when the time came to replace one of our vee-hickles. I obliged. And put in a bid on a mid-70s Cadillac Model 75 flower car, recently inspected, nice shape, no rust, low mileage. Similar to this: http://tinyurl.com/ldpns4q Unfortunately, I left the browser open after placing my (non-winning) bid. - Sigh. so close. so very close. Fortunately, our local lumber yard delivers 4x8 for practically nothing.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at January 18, 2014 07:57 AM (NQyj0)

89 Hubby wants to replace our 3/4 ton truck that can haul 12,000lbs with a 4x4 F150 when we move to Co. I said that as long as it can haul at least 10, 000 easily I'll think about it. I have two large horses. 1,200 and 1,600lbs and an oversized trailer to haul them in. Now #1's "11 fiesta has been in the garage waiting to have warranty covered repair of the trans. Took 4 weeks waiting for parts, THEN they called to make the appointment for repairs which is not till February 12th. Not sure I will let hubby get the F150. *** I don't know about the newer model F150's but my ex-boyfriend had a 1993 F150 XLT which over 10 years of driving he never had to do anything more than, basically, changing the oil and the brakes. All it required was maintenance. He nearly cried when he traded it in.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:58 AM (DmNpO)

90 87 California Witch at January 18, 2014 11:55 AM (Xcvk0)

I'd go with a 250 if for nothing else the diesel....

Modern diesel engines burn bio-diesel with minimal loss of durability....

One of my future business endeavors is going to be bio-diesel refining.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 07:58 AM (TE35l)

91 The new Mazda 3's supposed to be really good, and I like the way it looks too. If I was in the market for a new car, I'd be sorely tempted by it.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 07:58 AM (DZcCH)

92 New Edge still pwns that 2015...sigh. And well, *my* mustang already had IRS...lol

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula51 at January 18, 2014 07:58 AM (R5qgD)

93

Yeah, MH, every '68 Z I ever saw had traction bars on the rear leaf springs. I'd take a '69, I'm not that picky.

 

Oh,  and if irongrampa is here, my truck (the 23 y/o S-10 that was blowing the same ECM fuse) is chugging right along after finding where the wire was rubbing against  the valve cover. I wrapped it in electrical tape, then put   a length of    plastic shroud over the wire bundle. The old shroud  material just crumbled when I   touched   it, so I replaced all of it I could get at.

 

Yay!  and Thanks.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 07:58 AM (0HooB)

94 I've loved every Mazda 3 I've ever driven. I think the two best cars in that class are the 3 and the new Focus. The Golf is also nice, but I'd worry about reliability.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 07:59 AM (8FyP4)

95 Re car show photos: Where are the hood girls? *** I showed them in a prior thread and they didn't seem as popular as the elbow pic at the end of the post.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 07:59 AM (DmNpO)

96 The reason most forms of motorsports traditionally rewarded consistency was that any given race you could lose just through bad luck -- somebody else blows a tire and crashes into you and you lose through no fault of your own. This is especially true in races like Daytona and Talladega where they race in packs. It's literally impossible to react in time to avoid a wreck in front of you. The casual fans love those races cause of the big crazy wrecks that take out a dozen cars, but the drivers always complain that the amount of randomness takes away driver skill. Cause it does.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 18, 2014 07:59 AM (ZPrif)

97 Oops, I meant I call them the one-five models, not fifteen, meh.

Posted by: [/i][/b]KG at January 18, 2014 07:59 AM (IPz9m)

98 I posted this the other day, but I'm doing it again because it is so damned funny. Most of us have heard Paul Shanklin's rendition of "In a Yugo", but here is a hysterical video accompaniment, watch until 1:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzKUt4OtE8

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 08:02 AM (aDwsi)

99 "93 87 California Witch at January 18, 2014 11:55 AM (Xcvk0)

I'd go with a 250 if for nothing else the diesel....

Modern diesel engines burn bio-diesel with minimal loss of durability....

One of my future business endeavors is going to be bio-diesel refining.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 11:58 AM (TE35l)"



If you live in the northern midwest where E-85 is readily available and sometimes as much as $1.00 less than unleaded, you might want to look at getting a Flex-Fuel engine.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 18, 2014 08:02 AM (BcCwi)

100
Why have Audis become so popular in the last few years?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 08:03 AM (gYIst)

101 ~ sigh ~ It's like nobody notices me anymore. _

Posted by: Granada Gold Poly '69 Chevy Nova at January 18, 2014 08:03 AM (NQyj0)

102 I don't own a earth destroying car and walk or take the bus. I am doing my part to save this only earth we have. What are you doing to help the children and our black president ???????

Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at January 18, 2014 08:04 AM (iB0Q2)

103 constructed of aluminum. Ford is claiming that this will make the new truck up to 700lbs lighter Ah-hah, so now you can put enough batteries in to make it a hybrid!

Posted by: The EPA at January 18, 2014 08:04 AM (FcR7P)

104
Anyone remember the cute little fox emblem for the Audi Fox?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 08:04 AM (gYIst)

105 93 87 California Witch at January 18, 2014 11:55 AM (Xcvk0)I'd go with a 250 if for nothing else the diesel....Modern diesel engines burn bio-diesel with minimal loss of durability....One of my future business endeavors is going to be bio-diesel refining.Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 11:58 AM (TE35l) Yep, we currently have a "01 GMC 2500HD crew cab. Other than the gas gauge not always working well and an initial problem with the trans which has been fine since it has been a great truck. However, 12mpg is rather costly to drive.

Posted by: California Witch at January 18, 2014 08:04 AM (Xcvk0)

106 okay, will be on the lookout for some good deals / rebates / etc. for the Mazda3

Posted by: chemjeff at January 18, 2014 08:05 AM (9GG/0)

107 Ah-hah, so now you can put enough batteries in to make it a hybrid! *** Don't you get started. I don't remember anyone asking you.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:05 AM (DmNpO)

108 I like the new Civic (2 door) as well.

Posted by: DangerGirl at January 18, 2014 08:06 AM (GrtrJ)

109 Anyone remember the cute little fox emblem for the Audi Fox? *** Packers fan? http://bit.ly/1jdo7GI

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:07 AM (DmNpO)

110 Only reason Ford is using aluminum is because the supply for decent steel is volatile. As if we ran out of iron ore in the U.S., we now almost solely dependent on China for steel. Crap steel.


Oh, I don't know.  from what I've heard, those backyard furnaces made some pretty damn good steel during the Great Leap Forward. Although the quality partly depended on the quality of the tools and utensils you stuffed into it.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 18, 2014 08:07 AM (7e3KP)

111 Why have Audis become so popular in the last few years?


I drove around Germany on a vacation last year and I was surprised to see that Audis outnumbered the BMWs and Benzs by a lot.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 18, 2014 08:08 AM (7e3KP)

112 I used to carry my 4.6L engine block from my 1999 around on my shoulder. With the cast iron block on the 2003 - not so much. Weight is a big deal.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/s]akula51 at January 18, 2014 08:08 AM (R5qgD)

113

Packers fan?

 

Yup. I see that and raise you the Plymouth   Road Runner horn.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 08:09 AM (0HooB)

114 okay, will be on the lookout for some good deals / rebates / etc. for the Mazda3 **** Buy during the last couple of says in a month because that is when the pressure to sell is greatest. Sales folks are often placed in competition to see who can sell the most cars each month and at the end of the month the competition is even greater to seal those last couple of deals.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:09 AM (DmNpO)

115 Anyone remember the cute little fox emblem for the Audi Fox? --------------------- They were rip-off objects. Became a popular thing (among certain demographics) to wear on a chain around your neck. I know a fellow, btw, that still drives a Fox wagon.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 08:10 AM (aDwsi)

116 I drove around Germany on a vacation last year and I was surprised to see that Audis outnumbered the BMWs and Benzs by a lot. *** One of the Sr. VPs at our company bought an Audi and mocks the others who drive BMWs and Mercedes.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:10 AM (DmNpO)

117 Hubby also want to get rid of his BMW 330i at that time. I am rather opposed to that idea. It is a blast to drive. Not a comfy ride for long distance because the suspension is so tight, but that is not the point of owning one.

Posted by: California Witch at January 18, 2014 08:11 AM (Xcvk0)

118 British abbreviation for "aluminium" is "alloy." The real name of that metal is "duralumin."

Whilst (sorry, speaking English here) Ford "were" developing a hyuuge truck that weighed less, GM brought back the (slightly)small(er) pickup. Fords have definitely missed a lick here. They killed their Ranger last year, despite it still being popular even with no styling updates. There is a market for trucks in that size range.

Why no F-100? When I learned to drive, on an F-6, there weren't any extra zeroes on the end. GM had fun too, with a Chev "30" being the same as a GMC "3000". It's almost as if there were as much inflation in the ratings as in the prices.

IIRC, F-100 was a true half-ton (1000 pounds cargo without spring deflection), 150 is a heavy duty half-ton, 200 was only for vans, 250 is a three-quarter ton, never saw a 300, 350 is one-ton, 450 is two-ton (and you don't see deeper frame rails until you get to two-ton). Let's not make fun of the English.

Much was made in the news releases of how deucedly difficult it was to engineer an aluminum vehicle. Never Done Before! No mention of every Land Rover body ever, or the 1908 Tincher, frame and all, before aluminum was refined by electricity and was pretty much a semi-precious metal.

Aluminum does not rust. It does oxidize, though, so I'd be keeping an eye on that. I polishes up nicely, but does not like paint. I'm thinking that's where Ford spent a lot of research effort. Let you know by next season.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 08:12 AM (xq1UY)

119 105 I don't own a earth destroying car and walk or take the bus. I am doing my part to save this only earth we have. What are you doing to help the children and our black president ??????? Posted by: Dorcus Blimline at January 18, 2014 12:04 PM (iB0Q2) Did Mary Cloggenstein have a sex change operation?

Posted by: rickl at January 18, 2014 08:13 AM (sdi6R)

120 Way to go, Chris Isaak! That was a great video (and song, but I already knew that)

Posted by: t-bird at January 18, 2014 08:13 AM (FcR7P)

121 And what did a typical French small-town insurance agent drive in 1959?  Here's a pic (SFW).  The photo reminded me of the thread awhile back of the P-51 driver who flew beneath the Eiffel Tower.

LINK: http://preview.tinyurl.com/mf7nn7b

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:13 AM (HjPtV)

122 @16 - the original three 911 performance levels were the T, the E, and the S. I think the T was the bottom, the E the middle, and the S was the fast one. As you said, '911T' had nothing to do with it being a targa-top.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 08:14 AM (o+SC1)

123 Stainless steel! Renault engine! Wake up people!

Posted by: John DeLorean at January 18, 2014 08:14 AM (aDwsi)

124 I think that a couple of reasons for Audi's popularity are that they are building beautiful cars right now, plus 'everybody' has a BMW or Mercedes, and buyers want something different. I'm not a fan of how they drive when compared to a BMW.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:14 AM (8FyP4)

125 Way to go, Chris Isaak! That was a great video (and song, but I already knew that) **** I picture myself driving through the desert at night with that song on the radio.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:14 AM (DmNpO)

126 Stainless steel! Renault engine! Wake up people! *** Stainless my ass. Leave it in the sink for a day and it will rust.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:15 AM (DmNpO)

127 She got a Hemi under there?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at January 18, 2014 08:15 AM (celt+)

128 "The photo reminded me of the thread awhile back of the P-51 driver who flew beneath the Eiffel Tower."

He flew his Mustang beneath the Eiffel Tower.  Just to be clear

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:15 AM (HjPtV)

129 Why have Audis become so popular in the last few years? Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 12:03 PM (gYIst) I'm guessing because of the "Tombstone Grill" makes the Audi have a more "German" look meaning more aggressive. Plus dominating LP1 racing doesn't hurt.

Posted by: YIKES! at January 18, 2014 08:15 AM (mETGQ)

130 "39 17 Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 11:35 AM (+1T7c)

It also adversely impacts dedicated hauling stability for long trips.

I am wanting a 250-450 class diesel to haul travel trailers with, a too light body leads to road hop and lateral wobble in winds...

probably wind up having to get add-on spilers to prevent Air Cushioning at highway speeds under load.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 11:42 AM (TE35l)"



Pickup trucks definitely handle better with some load in the back.  One way to put some more weight on the rear wheels is to go to a junk yard and buy a pair of wheel rims before you get new tires.  When they put the new tires on your truck, have them put the old tires on the used wheels and use a couple of chains or cables that are used to lock up bicycles to keep the tires at the rear of your bed.  Not only do you have some extra weight on your rear wheels which makes the truck significantly less squirrelly in the rain but now you have three spare tires.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at January 18, 2014 08:15 AM (BcCwi)

131 124 - I expected a 2CV. Why use springs? Rubber bands much less expensive.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 08:16 AM (aDwsi)

132 You know I really wouldn't mind having a new 200S for my daily car. Except 35% of my income went to paying taxes at all levels last year... so I guess I'll stick with my college car a bit longer. Some day I still want a 1996-2002 Dodge Viper GTS. Blue with white stripes. Yum

Posted by: knob at January 18, 2014 08:16 AM (H1bc7)

133 "And what did a typical French small-town insurance agent drive in 1959?" One thing the French are good at is making damn ugly cars.

Posted by: Mohammed Xavier O'Malley at January 18, 2014 08:17 AM (uN4Ye)

134 And what did a typical French small-town insurance agent drive in 1959? Here's a pic (SFW). The photo reminded me of the thread awhile back of the P-51 driver who flew beneath the Eiffel Tower. LINK: http://preview.tinyurl.com/mf7nn7b *** when I watch films of that era I always think how the cars look kind of cool, but then I remember my big, comfy, roomy Jeep and return to reality.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:17 AM (DmNpO)

135 Back in the 70's GM used recycled steel in their cars.  They rusted out almost completely in only a couple of years.  The start of their downfall IMHO.  They produced total crap and expected people to buy them. 

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at January 18, 2014 08:17 AM (jucos)

136 8 That babe needs some help. Did you know there's an entire website dedicated to (medium) hot euro-trash girls looking despondent outside of broken down autos? NSFW, I guess: http://tinyurl.com/2f9jg

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 08:17 AM (3Dg5d)

137 They produced total crap and expected people to buy them. Posted by: Truck Monkey ------------------------ Tell me about it.

Posted by: Zombie Vega at January 18, 2014 08:18 AM (aDwsi)

138 Ford sells a lot of them pickemups, but it just amazes me the hoops they'll jump through to avoid selling us diesels. The AL body's got to be considerably more expensive than steel, though Ford had also gotten into the sandwich-steel for various cab bits which also cost some bucks. For CAFE reasons they have to bias the pricing to force people into the higher-MPG configurations anyway.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 08:19 AM (o+SC1)

139 Did you know there's an entire website dedicated to (medium) hot euro-trash girls looking despondent outside of broken down autos? NSFW, I guess: *** very kind of Vanishing, that.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:19 AM (DmNpO)

140 One thing the French are good at is making damn ugly cars. Posted by: Mohammed Xavier O'Malley

One scene in the movie has the American ex-pat  showing off his Buick.  He walks up to his French friend who says "Taylor, when your car is bigger than your office, it's time to move."

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:21 AM (HjPtV)

141 D'OH That should be LMP1

Posted by: YIKES! at January 18, 2014 08:22 AM (mETGQ)

142 I have trouble believing 700# out of a F150 is going to make it skitter around like a water drop on a hot plate. Still gonna be heavy. Need more control in winter - buy four, not two, snow tires. And don't forget to put them on the truck, either.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 08:22 AM (w6bKm)

143 The high sale last night was at the RM Auction where '58 Ferrari California Spyder brought $8.8 million. The car in Ferris Beuller was a Corvette based replica of one of these.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:27 AM (8FyP4)

144 I drive a chevy Aveo*, I probably shouldn't be in this thread . *Chevy Aveos are actually "Daewoos" a short lived car company GM bought out and chopped up, but later resurrected to make the Aveo line. I owned a "Daewoo Lanos" prior to the aveo actually. The aveo still says "Daewoo" on the inside of the door frame. If history teaches me anything it'll be that this thing will literally self-destruct at 80k-85k miles (AKA: soon.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 08:27 AM (GaqMa)

145 Another stab at the 4 Cyl Mustang? Always wanted an SVO, but I am weird.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 08:27 AM (4Z6IO)

146 a vehicle tends to want to scamper about in handling when

Since I am a fat guy I can assure you weight does not help with the not falling down thing.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at January 18, 2014 08:28 AM (DL2i+)

147 I've got fairly high hopes for the Chrysler 200, it's another borrowed Fiat/Alfa platform and, if it follows in the Dart's footsteps it should be pretty good and more reasonably shaped than much of its competition. I'm no fan of the current Fusion, the fat, flat A-pillars and tall beltline make it feel like you're driving a piece of drain pipe.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 08:28 AM (o+SC1)

148 Sorry to go off topic.... Guy who is doing work on my house didn't show up today at 8am... He left early yesterday upset after getting a call from his wife.... He called me a dew minutes ago to let me know he's at the ER with her... She is not doing well... High risk pregnancy... Doctors are trying to figure out what's going on baby is ok at the moment , mother is hemoraging....dr's telling him he might have a tough decision to make shortly.....prayers please lots of prayers.... :-(

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 18, 2014 08:29 AM (u8GsB)

149 I still want an SVO. They haven't really taken off in value yet.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:29 AM (8FyP4)

150 I'm not the target market for a pickup. For what I need I can rent a super duty at Home Despot for a Jackson for 75 minutes. If I were looking, $25K buys a beautifully restored flat fender Dodge Powerwagon that gets the same crappy mileage and doesn't suffer nearly as much from depreciation. Downside is they only go about 50mph, less if you have the 6.23 gears, which results in a lower top speed. That's probably appropriate, considering its handling dynamics.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 08:29 AM (w6bKm)

151 Aluminum is not expensive now, because you don't have to make it. They just re-melt pop and beer cans. Kilotons of it are sitting, ingotted up, in warehouses.

France made some good-looking big cars in the Fifties,
http://tinyurl.com/pgyjhxu

 but they set up a new tax structure at the end of the decade that virtually outlawed everything except compacts. It was a way of getting even with the rich, just short of beheading them again. It worked, and the large French car vanished from the earth le monde.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 08:30 AM (xq1UY)

152 Sorry to go off topic.... Guy who is doing work on my house didn't show up today at 8am... He left early yesterday upset after getting a call from his wife.... He called me a dew minutes ago to let me know he's at the ER with her... She is not doing well... High risk pregnancy... Doctors are trying to figure out what's going on baby is ok at the moment , mother is hemoraging....dr's telling him he might have a tough decision to make shortly.....prayers please lots of prayers.... :-( *** OMG! Just awful. Prayers on the way.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:30 AM (DmNpO)

153 145 chuckR at January 18, 2014 12:22 PM (w6bKm)

Not in ordinary conditions Chuck, lateral wind can throw a car off a mountain I have seen it in El Paso and New Mexico both.  Back in 98 one of wife's peers got to take a Fiesta hang-gliding thank God she only fell 10 feet and sprained her back.  You get a dust enhanced gravitonic wind in the Desert Mountains, or a squall or gale at the wrong angle you'll feel the 700 missing pounds.

Ice and snow as was said upthread are their own bonuses.

I fully expect if the donks lose in '16 that Ogabe's EPA will have plenty of "fu*k you America" Regulations generated just like Slick Willie did with arsenic.

CAFE standards kill.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 08:30 AM (TE35l)

154 Prayers on the way.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:31 AM (8FyP4)

155 151 phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 18, 2014 12:29 PM (u8GsB)

Lord protect her and the baby.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 08:31 AM (TE35l)

156 149 DaveA at January 18, 2014 12:28 PM (DL2i+)

Depends on the Terrain Dave...

we're unstoppable in mud.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 08:32 AM (TE35l)

157 France made some good-looking big cars in the Fifties,
http://tinyurl.com/pgyjhxu
==

Very nice.  Thanks!.

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:33 AM (HjPtV)

158 154 Aluminum is not expensive now, because you don't have to make it. They just re-melt pop and beer cans. Kilotons of it are sitting, ingotted up, in warehouses. I thought most steel was re-cycled? Nucor Steel chops up the entire rail car with the load of scrap in its operation down in Blytheville AR, IIRC.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 08:34 AM (3Dg5d)

159 If you haven't already, you might consider perusing The Truth About Cars. The founder, Robert Farago, earned moron status by referring the Subaru Tribeca's grille as a flying vagina. That earned him the ban hammer from a few manufacturers... He's no longer there, having started another site, Truth About Guns. Anyway, TTAC is a decent site.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 08:35 AM (w6bKm)

160 Thank you... I can't imagine what they are going through

Posted by: phoenixgirl@phxazgrl at January 18, 2014 08:37 AM (u8GsB)

161 Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 12:30 PM (xq1UY) The ingots in the warehouses are a result of weird government constraints on aluminum pricing though. People are fucking with the fact that the price of aluminum includes a warehousing fee (no matter where the aluminum itself came from) to artificially raise the price. Coke tried to mine fresh aluminum to get around this and was told "no, fuck you pay me."

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 08:38 AM (GaqMa)

162
without the googles, who can match all the Charlie's Angels cars with the proper Angels?

1) Jill (Farrah)
2) Sabrina (Kate Jackson)
3) Kelly (Jaclyn Smith)
4) Kris (Cheryl Ladd)
5) Tiffany (Shelley Hack)

a) orange Pinto
b) blue and white Mustang II Cobra
c) beige Mustang II

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 08:38 AM (gYIst)

163 I notice nobody is talking about the Chevy pickups, and I wonder how much of that is due to the incredibly stupid engineering decisions they've made over the years, culminating, I believe, in the enraging POS spare-tire location and pulley. The location is under the bed in the rear, and the pulley gets constipated with the slightest amount of mud imaginable, leading the owner to lie on the ground, kicking the spare in frustration, then jacking the rear up so he can get under the spare to trigger the little hook that is causing the problem. Our hay truck (a cheapie 4x4 2003 Silverado) was so annoying about giving up its spare that I finally snipped the cable holding it with bolt cutters, and carried the spare around in the bed. Our 2005 4x4 2500HD still has its spare, but my BiL and I spend an hour getting the spare loose on New Year's Day this year. We don't get along all that well anyway, and by the end of that hour, I was murderous and he had retired to the house. Oh, did I mention the Vortec V-8 blew two months after I bought that 2500HD? Mechanics said they'd never seen a hole blown in an engine like that. Replacement engine runs fine, long as it gets a quart or two of oil every month. Chevy seems to have decided the townie market for 4x4 pickups is lucrative enough to fuck the people who actually want a pickup to work. GM can blow me and suck my ass.

Posted by: jwpaine @PirateBallerina at January 18, 2014 08:38 AM (2oU2+)

164 I did an internet image search on "Facel Vega Facel II" 

Outstanding design for the time.

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:38 AM (HjPtV)

165 The sidewalls of the current pickups are so high that they lose a lot of utility. It is impossible to reach over and get a saw or tool out of the bed from the side. A maxim in carrying things is that they will always slide to an inconvenient place.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 08:39 AM (/KIZM)

166 French tax law killed the luxury car market and manufacturing almost overnight. Don't worry, couldn't happen here.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 08:40 AM (/KIZM)

167 I still look at TTAC occasionally but when Robert Farago left, it was like AoSHQ would be if Ace left.  TTAC's cobs are pretty good but Farago was unique.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 18, 2014 08:41 AM (7e3KP)

168 169 Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 12:40 PM (/KIZM)

Uh....

//US Steel, Ship Building Domination, Logging...

Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 18, 2014 08:43 AM (TE35l)

169 Facel Vegas are beautiful. Sinatra and a number of other stars owned them.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:44 AM (8FyP4)

170 I can't wait to hear about how that aluminum bed holds up. Seems like it would look like a half-crushed beer can pretty quick if we are talking about an owner who uses the truck for actual work.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 08:44 AM (1Y+hH)

171

Another stab at the 4 Cyl Mustang?

Always wanted an SVO, but I am weird.

 

 

The only hot rod I ever owned was an  '81 Mercury  Capri with the 2.3L turbo  and a 4-speed tranny. It had Michelin TRX tires on it: the only car that handled better was a  Vette. You could  just about do a 90-degree   turn at 35 mph  (please to be closing the window).

 

I couldn't find high enough octane gas to keep the valves from rattling, tho'. It was  fun for a while, but  I finally got rid of it when BBoy Squared came along.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 08:44 AM (0HooB)

172 Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 12:44 PM (1Y+hH) As mentioned upthread Aircraft aluminum is some pretty strong (and yet still light) stuff.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 08:47 AM (GaqMa)

173 without the googles, who can match all the Charlie's Angels cars with the proper Angels? 1) Jill (Farrah) 2) Sabrina (Kate Jackson) 3) Kelly (Jaclyn Smith) 4) Kris (Cheryl Ladd) 5) Tiffany (Shelley Hack) a) orange Pinto b) blue and white Mustang II Cobra c) beige Mustang II **** The Cobra was Farrah

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 08:47 AM (DmNpO)

174 101 I posted this the other day, but I'm doing it again because it is so damned funny. Most of us have heard Paul Shanklin's rendition of "In a Yugo", but here is a hysterical video accompaniment, watch until 1:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZzKUt4OtE8 Those weren't Yugos. Now, I realize that a running Yugo may be almost impossible to find, but an early 80s Rabbit would make a reasonable facsimile for distance shots, you should be able to find one of those. The 95-96 Jetta at the end? Not even close.

Posted by: Weirddave at January 18, 2014 08:47 AM (N/cFh)

175 The only reason I don't bash GMC/Chevy Trucks is because I have the best one they made in the last 20 years. Luck of the draw, really. Thing just does anything you ask of it. Of course, if you hit something (like a bump) hard you will lose some trim pieces. Who needs those, though?

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 08:48 AM (4Z6IO)

176 168 The sidewalls of the current pickups are so high that they lose a lot of utility. It is impossible to reach over and get a saw or tool out of the bed from the side. A maxim in carrying things is that they will always slide to an inconvenient place. Posted by: Jinx the Cat +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It's incredible how big trucks have gotten, even 'small ones'. My daily driver most of the time is a little '95 Nissan Hardbody. It's amazing how it is dwarfed by modern trucks when it's parked next to one. I think there's a good sized market for a little truck like this, but apparently the manufacturers disagree.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:49 AM (8FyP4)

177 Seriously?  That Porche Targa makes the '57 Ford Fairlane look simplistic, and the 66 Lincoln absolutely medieval.  That HAS to add 350 lbs to the frame of that thing.  And a simple, manual top wasn't even considered?  If this were just a 'concept' car, fine.  Impressive.  But for a true sportster?  nah.  I'll keep it Miata simple, tyvm.

Posted by: Mr Wolf at January 18, 2014 08:51 AM (mXNVC)

178 As mentioned upthread Aircraft aluminum is some pretty strong (and yet still light) stuff. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 12:47 PM (GaqMa) Thanks. I'm just remembering those early attempts at aluminum heads, where of course heat and warping caused problems. And how some guys can abuse trucks pretty heavily. ' I wonder how many truck beds a .458 would penetrate if they were lined up nicely in a row.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 08:52 AM (1Y+hH)

179 At the property where I work there are three or four vehicles available at any time for random farm/horse related chores. One F-150 of recent vintage, an old Chevy heavy duty pick-up, an electric work cart, and some little Toyota pickup from the early Eighties. I end up using the Toyota almost every time. It hardly leaves deeper tracks than the cart, and is a shitload easier hop in and out of, and I think it is the only vehicle that hasn't been in the shop/out of commission at least once in the last 5 years.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 18, 2014 08:54 AM (ZshNr)

180 180 Seriously? That Porche Targa makes the '57 Ford Fairlane look simplistic, and the 66 Lincoln absolutely medieval. That HAS to add 350 lbs to the frame of that thing. And a simple, manual top wasn't even considered? If this were just a 'concept' car, fine. Impressive. But for a true sportster? nah. I'll keep it Miata simple, tyvm. Posted by: Mr Wolf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I don't know that it adds that much weight, but I agree with your point. I guess too many people bitched about the simple top on the Boxster Spyder where you actually have to get out of the car to take it off or put it on.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:54 AM (8FyP4)

181 The Ford Ranger used to be a great small sized pick up truck.  They closed their St Paul plant that produced them a couple years ago and they no longer make them.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at January 18, 2014 08:54 AM (jucos)

182 I've already replaced the spare tire pulley assembly on my GMC Sierra.  The thread stripped out when the garage tech used too much force lifting the tire back into place.

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 08:55 AM (HjPtV)

183 Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 12:52 PM (1Y+hH) That may actually be a valid point, although aircraft aluminum handles weight well, I'm not sure how it does with point impact damage. My mag-light handles it pretty well over all, but you'd hate to find out that dropping a big stone on a corner completely destroys your truck.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 08:55 AM (GaqMa)

184 Toyota make a great truck for some one under 5' 8". Once a man grows into adulthood, though, you aren't fitting inside one.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 08:56 AM (4Z6IO)

185 Thanks. I'm just remembering those early attempts at aluminum heads, where of course heat and warping caused problems Non-sequitur: The entire engine of the Wright Flyer was aluminum. And it had a gravity fed fuel tank.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (3Dg5d)

186 I end up using the Toyota almost every time. It hardly leaves deeper tracks than the cart, and is a shitload easier hop in and out of, and I think it is the only vehicle that hasn't been in the shop/out of commission at least once in the last 5 years. Posted by: Lincolntf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yep, and a modern version would probably get over 30 MPG and have all the utility that many of us need from a truck 99% of the time.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (8FyP4)

187 I'm flogging a 2008 Nissan Frontier 4WD. I love that truck. Good in the snow (with Hankooks), reasonable power, 6 foot bed and crew cab with nice back seat. Wide turning radius is the only downside.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (1Y+hH)

188 It's like driving a Third-Grade Parent-Teacher Conference.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (4Z6IO)

189
yeah those spare tire cables are for one-time use only


Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (gYIst)

190 I'm 5'10 and it's about right. My co-worker hates it because he has legs like Manut Bol.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 18, 2014 08:57 AM (ZshNr)

191 Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 12:56 PM (4Z6IO) Considering Average US height is about 5' 10" lots of people will be fine .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 18, 2014 08:58 AM (GaqMa)

192 I wonder how many truck beds a .458 would penetrate if they were lined up nicely in a row. Posted by: Meremortal I think the gangbangers of Detroit are going to perform a similar test when the show vehicles are remove from Cobo Center.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 08:58 AM (/KIZM)

193 @166 - I'm inclined to prefer the GM trucks over the Fords, I don't spend a lot of time in the mud in my Suburban so haven't had any trouble with the spare-tire winch. Ford's finally shaken the bugs out of the mod motors now, they spent ten years blowing spark plugs out of the heads on the V10s and the 2V 5.4s, I haven't heard of this being a problem on the 3V motors. But the pushrod GM engines are much more compact and much easier to work on/around.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 08:58 AM (o+SC1)

194 WeirdDave- Yeah I recognized the cars for what they were, but as you point out, finding an operating Yugo to do the video would have been difficult.

Posted by: Zombie Vega at January 18, 2014 09:01 AM (aDwsi)

195 Non-sequitur: The entire engine of the Wright Flyer was aluminum. And it had a gravity fed fuel tank. Posted by: Brave Sir Robin Can't remember what car it was, but with much fanfare someone introduced aluminum heads (Vega?) and if you overheated, the head would warp and was finished.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:01 AM (1Y+hH)

196
Tomorrow I'll be replacing the leaky front air shock on my Navigator.

But will I stop there? Noooooo. I'm gonna replace the other side's front air shock.

And while I'm at it, I'll be replacing the rear shocks. Oh heck, and while I have the rear end jacked up, I'll be replacing the rear air springs.

And while I'm replacing the rear air springs, I'm just gonna go ahead and replace the solenoids.

It'll never end, this replacing stuff. Very bad habit to get in to.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 09:02 AM (gYIst)

197 Yeah, I'm 6' 2". I just can't fit comfortably in a Toyota. Also, a truck without a long box is perfectly useless for me.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 09:02 AM (4Z6IO)

198
I'm also replacing the front sway bar links.

And rear trailing arms that hold that secure the axle to the frame. They look rusty, so why not!

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 09:03 AM (gYIst)

199 Yep it was the Vega. The early Japanese cars with aluminum heads solved this by having sacrificial head gaskets which would let go when the motors got hot, protecting the head (somewhat).

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:04 AM (8FyP4)

200 If you can't carry a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood, it ain't a truck.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 11:40 AM (IV4od)


True, dat. I have 4 Suburbans, ranging in age from '88 to '08. All will swallow a 4X8 sheet, and close up.



I had a 2014 Ram 1500 as a rental last month. Didn't like it one bit. Goofy TV screen "information center" in dash, goofy ignition lock that you stick the damn key fob into, not the key, and worst of all, no shift lever on the column, just a round knob on the dash: PRND.

Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 09:05 AM (60Q+L)

201 The 2014 Corvette  might just surpass and win from the Triumph TR-7 The Truly Hideous Sports Car award.

How to lighten the F-150.  Rip out all the gadgets first.  Make it you know a truck again.  And not an SUV with a small cargo area.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 09:06 AM (whKdw)

202 Gooding auction is underway with the best auctioneer in the business. http://www.goodingco.com/auction/scottsdale-2014/

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:06 AM (8FyP4)

203 MereMortal - The Vega engine was all aluminum. Not a problem, except that Chevy decided to try unlined cylinders. That is, the pistons ran in the aluminum block. Didn't work out for them. Pontiac rejected the idea, and put the 'Iron Duke' engine in their version, the Astre. The Pontiac engine held up fine, but the car fell apart.

Posted by: Zombie Vega at January 18, 2014 09:06 AM (aDwsi)

204
I'll have to cut off one bolt...next to the gas tank. So that'll be fun.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 09:07 AM (gYIst)

205 Fave French cars? I'd wouldn't mind owning an Alpine A110 in something other than 1/24 scale. http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy3q2gq

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 09:07 AM (DZcCH)

206 @189 - GM has a new Colorado coming, and it gets a 2.8L diesel next year. Dodge's got a smaller diesel pickup coming too. Notice I said 'smaller', not 'small'. All of these things are damn near as big as a '60s F-100, and make even an old compact Ranger, never mind the earlier Hilux/Courier/etc. types, look like an Austin A40.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 09:07 AM (o+SC1)

207 Anna - What a massive failure the TR 7 was. The nadir for Britain, I think.

Posted by: Zombie Vega at January 18, 2014 09:07 AM (aDwsi)

208 207 I'll have to cut off one bolt...next to the gas tank. So that'll be fun. Posted by: soothsayer _______________________________________ Probably best not to use a torch...

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:08 AM (8FyP4)

209 Proper truck needs a Long Box, 4WD and a Manual Trans. Most everything else is negotiable.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 09:08 AM (4Z6IO)

210 the Vega had an aluminum, unlined block. They used a racing technology to use silicon crystals during the casting process to harden the cylinder walls. Unfortunately, what worked for the track did not work in real driving and the blocks failed rapidly. In addition, the Vega suffered from excessive corrosion and horrendous build quality. It was built in Lordstown, Ohio and the labor force vandalized the product so badly that GM invited "60 minutes" to come in and film how poorly the cars were made. I had a 71 Vega as a company car and it lasted about 40k before the engine was toast.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 09:09 AM (/KIZM)

211 "As mentioned upthread Aircraft aluminum is some pretty strong (and yet still light) stuff."

There's all different kinds of "aircraft Aluminum", the structure and skins of airplanes is mostly 2024T3, which isn't what Ford is using. They are probably using 5052 or 6061 half hard "aircraft aluminum" which is pretty much the run of mill aluminum used in everything.

Posted by: lowandslow at January 18, 2014 09:09 AM (IV4od)

212 An A110 Alpine with rally history sold yesterday at Gooding. I think it brought around $220K.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:10 AM (8FyP4)

213 Posted by: Zombie Vega Thanks, great info. I'm sure there are some good books around detailing engineering adventures by car designers. Going way back, I remember something about pushbutton transmission shifters on steering wheels being an issue. Edsel, IIRC. I was on a school bus in '65 and a kid showing off in a Corvair passed us on highway. As he pulled back into his lane that thing took off like an airplane and flipped onto it's top. Somehow the occupants emerged unharmed but the Corvair was history.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:11 AM (1Y+hH)

214
the torch will be the quickest, but I'll try the 'wizza' disk grinder if it fits

Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 09:11 AM (gYIst)

215 Pick-up trucks tend to be a little top heavy anyways when not under any kind of load, and this could make it even worse.

Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 18, 2014 11:46 AM (+1T7c)


Huh? If pickup trucks now are top heavy, with steel cabs, how would making the cab of aluminum make it any worse. If anything, it should lower the center of gravity. Crosswinds might be more of valid cause for concern. But if the suspension of the truck is redesigned to account for the change in weight distribution, all should be OK.

Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 09:12 AM (60Q+L)

216 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_2300_engine a better description of the 2300 Vega engine than I could hope to do.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 18, 2014 09:12 AM (/KIZM)

217 Sooth - Sawzall?

Posted by: Zombie Vega at January 18, 2014 09:13 AM (aDwsi)

218 It was the bemetallic effects of aluminum heads on an iron block that caused the dramatic warping of the Cosworth Vega. Early Chev straight sixes were noted for warping, and the Ford 240 (only) straight six was prone to it as well. The iron head could be planed back to spec. Never heard of a Cosworth being fixed. 

The famous Alfa twin-cam four had aluminum heads and block shrouds (but iron wet-liner cylinders) and had no hear problems at all. As the cam-chain idler wore, it could let the steel chain contact the aluminum chaincase from the inside, and cut a neat slot right through it.

Some English parallel twin motor cycle engines used an alloy head on an iron cylinder. There were problems, but heat-handling was not the cause. Thick, soft-copper head gaskets were useful on the Alfas and the Nortons too. Unless they blew through a skinny part, you could re-anneal them in water, paint them with aluminum paint and re-use them!

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 09:13 AM (xq1UY)

219 Off with rusted zombie sock

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:14 AM (aDwsi)

220 Stringer. Heh. I had forgotten all about the Cosworth Vega.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:15 AM (aDwsi)

221 When the other option is doing it by hand, even the smallest pickup is a godsend. Hauling hay, dragging downed limbs, all sorts of random shit that I'd be embarrassed to describe (like our "let's dredge the stream using the truck" scheme) are made feasible by that little Toyota Sushi-sled. I'll have to check it's model type, no insignias left on it. (But for real life, driving in real traffic with real loads, not so much.)

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 18, 2014 09:15 AM (ZshNr)

222
a sawzall is an option, but a wizza is the proper tool


Posted by: soothsayer at January 18, 2014 09:16 AM (gYIst)

223 "This has long been the best selling vehicle in the U.S. and FordÂ’s cash cow, both figuratively and literally." It appears this is a Joe Biden "literally," unless I'm missing something and the F-150 is actually (literally) a cow.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at January 18, 2014 09:16 AM (deaac)

224 Aha! I just found the Mecum Auto Auction on  the telly.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 09:16 AM (0HooB)

225 As he pulled back into his lane that thing took off like an airplane and flipped onto it's top. Somehow the occupants emerged unharmed but the Corvair was history. I managed to flip a '72 Super Beetle, slid 3-400 feet down the highway on the roof. Front and back windshields popped out. My brother and I rolled out, unhurt, and watched as crank-case oil drained out through the rear grill. We pushed the car over, and it started on the first try. Drove the car home. BTW, it's pretty cold driving a car w/o a windshield when it's 15 degrees out. Kids, don't try this at home.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 09:17 AM (3Dg5d)

226 Sven@156 sometimes the answer to the problem is slow down. My first car, a 66 Dodge Polara, no lightweight, nearly went airborne in a high wind gust when I was going 70 the other way. Cracked the cross member that held the hood down but didn't release the secondary latch. This happens if you put enough speed on - somewhere there is a video of the last Mercedes LMP prototype doing 360 back flips at LeMans.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 09:17 AM (w6bKm)

227 Stringer - I found a source for custom copper gaskets, made by hydrocutting copper sheet. I ordered several different thicknesses and used them to diddle the compression ration on an F3 bike that I raced.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:18 AM (aDwsi)

228 Literally was used with a bit of artistic license. I was referring to the weight...

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:18 AM (8FyP4)

229 Ha, Countrysquire is right, this Gooding auction guy is pretty funny.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 09:18 AM (DZcCH)

230 California Witch,  keep to a 250 class.  You want plenty of power and the extra bit of braking in Colorado.   My 350 diesel gets 13-14 mpg if I'm not towing (which is rarely, I have a 35+mpg car for normal driving)   It doesn't get sucked down too much when it is towing unless there is a crosswind or its quite hilly.   I have steel horse trailer and really don't ever want to go to aluminum for the trailer.   I'm pretty cautious when towing but shit happens and CO drivers help that along and when shit happens in an aluminum trailer the results are almost always tragic. 

Posted by: PaleRider at January 18, 2014 09:18 AM (vL0Nv)

231 Wind? For *years* I drove a fairly trick Datsun 510. Light weight (2200 lbs), boxy shape, and stiff suspension made it a real handful in lateral winds. Passing semis was fun 100% of the time.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:20 AM (aDwsi)

232 One of the scary drag cars in my old days at Green Valley Raceway in Texas was called the LeManster. 65-ish LeMans (the little one) with a built 421 and a straight bar front axle. Spent about half its run going sidways down the track and still turned 11's.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:20 AM (1Y+hH)

233 An A110 Alpine with rally history sold yesterday at Gooding. I think it brought around $220K. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 01:10 PM

The A110 is still up near the top of my if-I-win-teh-lottery list. I was handed the keys to one (the hot-rod 1600S version) on a memorable day in 1986 and spent several hours hustling it through the hills. Despite having the engine hung out the back, it was nowhere near as tail-happy as a Porsche 911, and after getting acclimatized you could hustle it along a twisty road at atrociously high speeds.

Even after experiencing dozens of "exotic" cars since, I'm still hot for that car.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:20 AM (ff7/5)

234 I think stability has much more to do with aerodynamics than weight.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:21 AM (8FyP4)

235 Corvairs were supposed to run 15 psi in the front tires. Nobody could believe that, so they'd pump them up to 30 or so, and off they'd go into the wild blue. It was not the vehicle shape that caused the light front end, as Nader claimed.

They would oversteer on trailing throttle, of course. So do those other rear-engine cars, but it's sophisticated when they do it. Ernie Kovacs vs James Dean.  

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 09:22 AM (xq1UY)

236 Gotta hit those federal fuel standards, so performance and actual work capability be damned re: new F-150.

Significantly lighter may be fine for the tricked out yuppie truck commuter-mobile in daily highway driving, but can't see it being an upgrade when you actually are hauling cargo or driving in snow.

And imagine aluminum will drive up the price as well.

Posted by: brak at January 18, 2014 09:23 AM (RBQss)

237 And what did a typical French small-town insurance agent drive in 1959? Here's a pic (SFW). The photo reminded me of the thread awhile back of the P-51 driver who flew beneath the Eiffel Tower.

LINK: http://preview.tinyurl.com/mf7nn7b

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 12:13 PM (HjPtV)


Cool! a Dyna Panhard. All aluminum, two-stroke engine, IIRC. Kid in my high school drove one.

Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 09:23 AM (60Q+L)

238 Wind? For *years* I drove a fairly trick Datsun 510. Light weight (2200 lbs), boxy shape, and stiff suspension made it a real handful in lateral winds. Passing semis was fun 100% of the time.

One of my brothers had a tricked out little 510, the car I learned to drive a stick.  It died one night when some kid in a pickup parked on it.  Burned everything from the firewall back.

Posted by: Alextopia Super Secret Police at January 18, 2014 09:23 AM (wSrLR)

239 Anna - What a massive failure the TR 7 was. The nadir for Britain, I think. Posted by: Zombie Vega

I drove a TR 7 for about a year.  Fun when the humidity was low, but EVERY TIME it rained, the engine stalled out.  On the interstate at 70 mph (top speed, about 92), or on a street.  Coast out to the shoulder, wait about 10 minutes, cross your fingers, and turn the ignition switch.  I paid careful attention to the weather reports.

Posted by: mrp at January 18, 2014 09:24 AM (HjPtV)

240 Even after experiencing dozens of "exotic" cars since, I'm still hot for that car. Posted by: MrScribbler ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Interesting. I've been around a lot of rare and valuable cars in my life, but have never seen an Alpine in the flesh.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:24 AM (8FyP4)

241 Off, secret sock.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at January 18, 2014 09:24 AM (wSrLR)

242 Meremortal - Remember the Hurst Hairy Olds? Here's a pic off the line, all four tires lit up. It was apprently *very* difficult to steer: http://tinyurl.com/mknj7po

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:25 AM (aDwsi)

243 Awwwww, that poor Charger in the last pic, have tools, will travel cause she looks like she can use a hand, or two. The 2014 Mustang with an IRS like the Thunderbird had for YEARS is an improvement that will boost handling performance immensely. I miss my 94 T-bird a lot, in no small part thanks to Obama's FSA minions failed attempt to steal it that caused my insurance to call it a total loss. Bastards.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at January 18, 2014 09:25 AM (baiNQ)

244 I think stability has much more to do with aerodynamics than weight. Posted by: Countrysquire And suspension.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:25 AM (1Y+hH)

245 PS... I've been eyeing the F-150 for a few weeks, maybe I'll give my own thoughts on it soon.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at January 18, 2014 09:26 AM (baiNQ)

246 Cool! a Dyna Panhard. All aluminum, two-stroke engine, IIRC. Kid in my high school drove one.
Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 01:23 PM

Flat-twin (like half a VW Beetle motor) but four-stroke.

These things were very light -- teh Froggies knew about aluminum, too -- and amazing fast for having almost no measurable horsepower. Aerodynamics, and all that. Also plastic.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:26 AM (ff7/5)

247 Willys do Brasil built a licensed version of the Alpine called Interlagos. Supposedly there is one (1) in the US. Always wanted that body on a CJ5 frame and driveline.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 09:26 AM (xq1UY)

248 Alextopia - I had my 510 for 18 years, 200,000 miles. And then..., it went roadracing.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:27 AM (aDwsi)

249 Flat-twin (like half a VW Beetle motor) but four-stroke. --------------- BMW motorcycle.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:28 AM (aDwsi)

250 On my way to San Antonio to pick up a new Range Rover Sport. Yipeeeeee

Posted by: Chris Christie at January 18, 2014 09:29 AM (Nqk62)

251 The 2014 Mustang with an IRS like the Thunderbird had for YEARS ... --------------- Only the SVO, I think...

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:29 AM (aDwsi)

252 Interesting. I've been around a lot of rare and valuable cars in my life, but have never seen an Alpine in the flesh. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 01:24 PM

Spending some time in France helped, though the one I drove was in California.

Alpines were built in Brazil and Mexico (the "Dinalpin") as well as France. Only the French ones will do, as that was the only place where bigger Renault engines were stuffed in.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:29 AM (ff7/5)

253 A four banger Mustang, yea verily we are back in the 1970s.

TR-7 - wedge on roller skates.

Nader and his Unsafe at Any Speed was built on lies and fear-mongering.  Typical Socialist.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 09:29 AM (whKdw)

254 Meremortal - Remember the Hurst Hairy Olds? Yes, awesome photo!!! Reminds me of the Hemi Under Glass too. The days of brute force and little else in drag racing.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:30 AM (1Y+hH)

255 Off fat rino sock

Posted by: thunderb at January 18, 2014 09:31 AM (Nqk62)

256 Alextopia - I had my 510 for 18 years, 200,000 miles. And then..., it went roadracing.

Sorry, that was my sock.  Fun little cars, but they do burn rather well once you get them going.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at January 18, 2014 09:31 AM (wSrLR)

257 Anna - I was fortunate enough to drive a Fitch-prepared '69 Corsa. It was a damned nice handler. Pics of a '65 Fitch: http://www.corvaircorsa.com/fitch.html

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:32 AM (aDwsi)

258 But the new four cylinder mustang will make as much horsepower a the 2001 V8 Cobra.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:32 AM (8FyP4)

259 Sorry, that was my sock. Fun little cars, but they do burn rather well once you get them going. Posted by: Blanco ---------------- Steel doesn't burn!

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at January 18, 2014 09:34 AM (aDwsi)

260 I take it you guys are talking about the Sunbeam Alpine. Sweet car with the 260 Ford motor.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:34 AM (1Y+hH)

261 Nader and his Unsafe at Any Speed was built on lies and fear-mongering. Typical Socialist.

I felt a twinge of sympathy for spinning my sister's '62 Corvair convertible in a big, big way (this was back in '67, IIRC). I suddenly knew the things were Evil Death Traps.

Then I checked the tire pressures. My dumb-shit sis had let the rears wilt down to 8 psi. A couple minutes with the air hose at the gas station changed my outlook on Corvairs totally....

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:36 AM (ff7/5)

262 No, the Renault Alpine. The Sunbeam Alpine with the 260 was called the Tiger. It's what Maxwell Smart drove.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:36 AM (8FyP4)

263 But the new four cylinder mustang will make as much horsepower a the 2001 V8 Cobra. It's weird to think that a new Mustang GT makes more power than the original Viper did.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 18, 2014 09:36 AM (gFCPF)

264

The days of brute force and little else in drag racing.

 

Ahh, the Little Red Wagon, the Snake and the Mongoose, the Swamp Rat, the Malco Gasser (which wound up in Huntsville, AL of all places), Grumpy's Toy(s)...

 

...damn, I miss the old days. However, there are some fucking awesome machines on today's drag strips, too. The GatorNationals are right up the road in a few weeks, I've been  promising myself I'd go, maybe this year will be it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 09:37 AM (0HooB)

265 #264 Meant ta say "I felt a twinge of sympathy for Nader...."

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:37 AM (ff7/5)

266 237 countrysquire, Largely correct but more of a symbiotic coefficient IMHO. Most Pickups have been on one end of it. Nothing huge, an air-foil spoiler and a set of under flaps and you're golden.

Posted by: sven10077 at January 18, 2014 09:37 AM (TE35l)

267 Oh, and there's my '69 Z-28 on the telly. $42K

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 09:37 AM (0HooB)

268 Yay! Car thread!


Can't sleep (I'll pay for that tonight) so I figured I'd check in. The more I look at the new Mustang the better I like it, although I wish they had kept a few more of the styling cues. I think it will be a popular design once everyone gets used to it, but I'm not ready to trade my '11 in for one yet.


Mostly cause I don't want a car payment.


But if I did...I'd get a base model GT with 6 speed and Brembos in blue or white.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:38 AM (yh0zB)

269 263 I take it you guys are talking about the Sunbeam Alpine. Sweet car with the 260 Ford motor. I saw one driving down the highway here a couple of weeks ago. Tried to grab a pic. Apple red w/a white interior. I actually checked on internet to confirm the sighting, b/c my wife decided I could buy her one after seeing Grace Kelly drive it in "To Catch a Thief." I didn't realize they were so rare...

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 09:38 AM (3Dg5d)

270 The SVT Cobras also had independent rear suspension, I think. The old man has a 2000 R. That thing is ridiculous.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 09:38 AM (4Z6IO)

271 It's weird to think that a new Mustang GT makes more power than the original Viper did. Posted by: Waterhouse Yep. Hell, a new V6 Camry or Accord is quicker than most of the muscle cars being sold at Barrett Jackson this weekend.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:38 AM (8FyP4)

272 And Robert Farago is a plagiarizing dickhead, and when he gets called on it he doubles down on the dick, so I won't be visiting his sites. I'll just go to the source instead.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:39 AM (yh0zB)

273 Can't remember what car it was, but with much fanfare someone introduced aluminum heads (Vega?) and if you overheated, the head would warp and was finished.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 01:01 PM (1Y+hH)

Vega's had a cast iron overhead cam head on an aluminum block. Not regular aluminum, an alloy called "Nikasil". As the molten casting cooled, crystals of pure silicon were supposed to grow within the mass, forming a network of strong, hard crystalline mesh. The cylinders were then bored and chemically etched, leaving a porous silicon surface for the piston rings to ride on. A surface that was supposed to retain oil...



All worked well in theory, but then GM blew it by equipping Vegas with teensy-tiny radiators that provided zero reserve cooling capacity. Vega engines overheated easily, and overheating absolutely killed the cylinder wall finish, and was death to the engine itself. Some machine shops made good money rebuilding Vega engines with cast-iron sleeves.

Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 09:40 AM (60Q+L)

274 But the new four cylinder mustang will make as much horsepower a the 2001 V8 Cobra. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 01:32 PM

Dude. If you wouldn't prefer a thumpin' V8 over some little four-cylinder shit-motor in a sports- or ponycar, please deposit your Man Card at the front desk on your way out.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:40 AM (ff7/5)

275 Gotta go, but the '65 Griffith was one that I hankered for : http://tinyurl.com/mfllv4q Still do.... Passed one up about 8 years ago for $17,000. Damnit.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 18, 2014 09:43 AM (aDwsi)

276 GGE dare I ask what is a Robert Farago??

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 09:43 AM (whKdw)

277 Oh, I'd definitely opt for the 420 hp Coyote V8 in a new Mustang. The Houston Auto Show starts next week and the 2015 Mustang is scheduled t be there.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:43 AM (8FyP4)

278 2015 Mustang has IRS, the 03 Cobra had it, the new EcoBoost 2.3l 4 cyl is reported to have 305hp, like the current V6. AFAIK the new Mustang will still have a V6 option, but I haven't heard anything about it. The new 5.0 will have 440hp, so I've heard. I'm wondering what the new specialty model will be. I'm betting on a Mach 1 for 2016.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:44 AM (yh0zB)

279 GGE dare I ask what is a Robert Farago??

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 01:43 PM (whKdw)



The Truth About Cars (formerly), The Truth About Guns now. TTAG has a well deserved rep for ripping off other people's work (most notably Tamera Keel, and if you don't know who that is you probably aren't a gun person). I've heard they are better now, but you know what they say about first impressions.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:45 AM (yh0zB)

280 Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 18, 2014 01:38 PM (3Dg5d)s There was another made I think by an American company, name started with a V, gorgeous car, especially the interior. Can't remember the model name.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:46 AM (1Y+hH)

281 @237 look no further than a McLaren F1 to confirm the role of aerodynamics in stability. After two decades, still the gold standard for performance cars and yet very elegant. No fugly furbelows, excessive wings or slots, yet capable of 250mph. Certainly better looking than Bugatti's heffalump Veyron.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 09:46 AM (w6bKm)

282 The F1 was the one where the driver sat in the middle, right? Neat car.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:47 AM (yh0zB)

283 That thing is ridiculous. Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 Ridiculous was my old man's WWII Jeep with a Chevy 327. Scary. Got rid of it before it killed us all.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:48 AM (1Y+hH)

284 Oh, I'd definitely opt for the 420 hp Coyote V8 in a new Mustang. The Houston Auto Show starts next week and the 2015 Mustang is scheduled t be there. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 01:43 PM

Bah. You young whippersnappers don't know what a real Ford Mustang is like.

Gimme a '65 GT-350 with a built 289 and four Weber carbs on a Shelby manifold!

Or, better, let's just drop all the bullshit and cut straight to an AC Cobra 427.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 09:49 AM (ff7/5)

285 @206 - the Vega engine was Ed Cole's baby. It was almost a modern design. But they chickened out in a couple key areas and it cost them. It was one of the first, maybe the first, die-cast aluminum block, an 'open deck' design (the tops of the bores do not have a flat surface around them to support them.) But, for reasons unconfirmed - whether they were concerned about the stiffness of the open-deck block or whether it was just cheaper (no valve guide/seat inserts) that way - they made the cylinder head of cast iron. Somewhere along the line they ALSO decided to squeeze a couple pennies out of the head gasket, and ended up using a gasket that could not accommodate the different thermal expansion rates of the aluminum block and iron head. And, of course, at the time most people (owners, mechanics, Chevy dealerships) were clueless about cooling system maintenance on aluminum engines, so corrosion became a factor as well. If the engine had had an aluminum head it might have done fine. Even with the iron head, a more compliant head gasket might have kept them alive. But GM cheaped out and paid the price. Now, of course, comes the rest of the story. Honda, among others, jumped on the open-deck die-cast block bandwagon fairly quickly, and now virtually every production passenger-car engine is an open-deck die-cast block. Kolbenschmidt grabbed the Reynolds 390 alloy and ran with it, and so for the last forty years you've had millions of Porsches, BMWs, Audis, etc. going out the door with sleeveless Alusil blocks. But I don't think anyone's ever again paired an open-deck AL block with an iron head. Here's a rare opportunity: the exact same basic engine architecture, same dimensions (bore centers, stroke, deck height, etc) but the SHO motor's a closed-deck sand-cast block and the Volvo motor's an open-deck die-cast block. Oh, and the Volvo's got MUCH bigger bores, as is typical with modern engines it's got maybe 5-6mm of gasket between bores: http://www.shoforum.com/showpost.php?p=1120830&postcount=23

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 09:49 AM (o+SC1)

286 Gotta run, thanks for the car thread, always a highlight!

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:49 AM (1Y+hH)

287 GGE just add one more 'r' to that name and get Farrago.  A hodgepodge, a confused mixture ...  As in this book is a farrago of plagiarism.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 09:50 AM (whKdw)

288 I think the McLaren F1 is the greatest performance car ever built. Gordon Murray knows his shit.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:50 AM (8FyP4)

289 oooh, one more thing. Dad is selling his 77 Scout with the 304 motor if anyone is interested.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 18, 2014 09:50 AM (1Y+hH)

290 (removes sock)

Friend of mine had a TR-7 roadster with a 5 speed. Transmission cratered, as in grenaded. New one was going to be major $$$. We ended up putting in a '79 Mazda RX-7 motor and transmission. I did most of the work. There was no way that we could make the thermal reactor fit the available space, so we had a set of tube headers made. They'd get red hot every single drive, but held together. Amazingly, all the electrics were compatible, tach, oil pressure gauge, oil level and radiator level switches, etc. Hooked up the Mazda sensors to their counterparts in the Triumph dash, and they worked as they should. Made a real fun little car out of it. Sounded like two angry chain saws, too.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 18, 2014 09:52 AM (60Q+L)

291 Bah. You young whippersnappers don't know what a real Ford Mustang is like. Gimme a '65 GT-350 with a built 289 and four Weber carbs on a Shelby manifold! Or, better, let's just drop all the bullshit and cut straight to an AC Cobra 427. Posted by: MrScribbler Hah. I've actually owned 4 Shelby Mustangs and an ERA 427 Cobra. I passed on a '65 GT-350 in 1987 because of some poor repair work on the left quarter panel. I never said that I was smart.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 09:56 AM (8FyP4)

292 On the Corvair horror stories I was taking a guy to the SF airport.  We had just crossed the San Mateo Bridge and were merging into highway 101 when I had blowout on the left rear tire.  The car got sideways in the right lane in the middle of morning rush traffic.   managed to get it straightened out and off the road w/o clipping anyone. It was a miracle.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 18, 2014 09:58 AM (T2V/1)

293 The F1 was the one where the driver sat in the middle, right? Neat car. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 01:47 PM If your refering to the McLaren F1, yes.

Posted by: YIKES! at January 18, 2014 09:59 AM (mETGQ)

294 Gimme a '65 GT-350 with a built 289 and four Weber carbs on a Shelby manifold!

Or, better, let's just drop all the bullshit and cut straight to an AC Cobra 427.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 01:49 PM (ff7/5)



You can still get Factory Five Cobras that are pretty good replicas of the originals, but I have bad news for you. The modern cars are superior in every way. I can run circles around your vaunted 65 GT-350 with my 11 GT/CS, and it's a 'vert. The newer cars have better motors, better brakes, better suspension, etc. The 12-14 Boss will run away from the old Shelby. Not that they weren't excellent cars in their day...but their day was nearly fifty years ago.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 09:59 AM (yh0zB)

295 @294 - Yeah, if you ever find me a nice '69-70 Boss 302 with real SCCA Trans-Am history, all I need is the original SCCA brass tag, I'll build the rest of the car around that...

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 09:59 AM (o+SC1)

296 You can do all the math and charts and diagrams as to why more weight is always worse for handling (until you get down to the point where wind blows the car away), but some people will never believe it. I actually drew it out in College once, with gravity and inertia and momentum and friction, and only got about 75% believers. Oh well, every SCCA events needs a comedy entrant with a '71 Cadillac to slide off the track. Trucks, that's a suspension design issue (and of course weight balance). Not only is all the weight on the front, but the suspension is a compromise between loaded and unloaded handling. I'd bet if Ford contracted the suspension out to Mercedes or BMW they could work something out. They seem to be good with dual-mode suspensions. Would probably be expensive, though. I'm sure that would get *all over* somebody's lawn, though.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at January 18, 2014 10:02 AM (qyfb5)

297 >>Friend of mine had a TR-7 roadster with a 5 speed. You can have my Triumph TR-6 when you pry it .... nah, you can't even have it then. I'm going to be buried in it. About halfway done with the restoration/upgrade. Next winter the supercharger goes in. You can keep the 400 HP super cars. I'll take my '75 ragtop any old day.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 18, 2014 10:05 AM (g1DWB)

298 Oh well, every SCCA events needs a comedy entrant with a '71 Cadillac to slide off the track.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 18, 2014 02:02 PM (qyfb5)



If you want to see a really really fun race, check out Chumps or Lemons cars. $500 budget not including safety equipment, and they get a little bit of everything. Makes me wish I still had the old Rampage sometimes.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 10:05 AM (yh0zB)

299 Bloody hell, a '57 Porsche 356 Speedster just brought $445K. That has to be a record for a pushrod Speedster. I'm liking this trend in the Porsche market.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 10:07 AM (8FyP4)

300 Well, my computer is telling me it wants to reboot to install the updates, so I'm off. Maybe I'll be able to get a little more sleep...


I'll check in later on tonight on break. Later roonz and roonettez, fear no evil!

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 10:07 AM (yh0zB)

301 This is what I have always wanted.


http://tinyurl.com/m3wfoko

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 18, 2014 10:09 AM (T2V/1)

302 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 02:05 PM (yh0zB) Grassroots Motorsports had a periodic budget challenge that was pretty cool, but some entrants were far, *far* wiser than others with their money. Unfortunately, a couple of my favorite budget cars are *notoriously* owned by penny-pinchers with no budgeting sense, and the results are about what you'd expect. *sigh* I haven't kept up but SCCA basically has a whole class of 1st-gen RX-7s, dirt cheap and strictly limited, one of the cheapest ways to enter official racing.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at January 18, 2014 10:09 AM (qyfb5)

303 *Storms In*
*Throws textbook*
*Punches computer*

One of my "classmates" (from Seattle) referred to the Constitution as "a living document" today.

*Sputters*
*Storms out*

Posted by: Country Singer at January 18, 2014 10:10 AM (VFbB9)

304 Delinking for a moment-- Chemjeff, if you're still here, you might want to check out the 2013 Nissan Sentra. The styling is almost identical to the new Altima (daughter has the Sentra, Dad has the Altima...line them up and they're shockingly similar except for size) and gets 35 mph city if you're not a gas-pedal-stomper. It feels surprisingly large and solid for being a smaller car. Rides a bit smoother than the Mazda 3, too, if that's of interest to you.

Posted by: AngelEm at January 18, 2014 10:12 AM (bo1ZH)

305 GGE, you do know the '14 Mustang is as much better than your car as yours is better than the GT-350, right? Because for a second there I thought I saw the least little dribble of snot under your nose, and a wet spot behind your one ear there.

I drove a 427 Cobra once, for a few minutes. I have also fired a .50 from the shoulder. Glad I did it, and have no desire to to do it again.

The Mustangs were engineered for the 200 six, with tri-power. They were seriously out of balance with any eight (I had a '67 with a built 302). Without Shelby braces, the Monte Carlo bar, and sub-frame connectors, they would, sitting in the garage, cave in on themselves enough to measure with a tape. So, to solve the problem, they put the 390 in it.

For the first couple of decades, I gaddammed 'em along with the rest of yaz for not designing the car with IRS. After I had driven quite a few independently-sprung cars, I began to see the wisdom of their cheapskatery. In the hands of a competent driver, IRS will save you. In the hands of the typical Mustang customer, it would have been an even worse deathtrap on any curvy backroad with phone poles.

Point-and-squirt handling was much better achieved with a mid-size frame, and a frame, than in any of the pony cars. Nevertheless, a lot of really interesting driving is going away with universal adaption of IRS, and I'll miss it sometimes.  

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 10:12 AM (xq1UY)

306 That was serendipitous.  TCM showed this black and white short film about racing in Nassau.  The winner of Friday's race was Carrol Shelby in a Ferrari, a woman reporter won the Saturday's woman's race, and on Sunday Stirling Moss won in a Maserati. 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at January 18, 2014 10:13 AM (whKdw)

307 @302 when the wasserboxers came out was the time to buy the last generation aircooled cars - especially 993 C2S's. Plus, no matter how weird you think it looks, low miles low production like the 911 Speedsters never miss if you hold until an auspicious moment. People are also suckers for decontented cars like the RS America too. Wish I bought one instead of a Carrera 4 back when. Even the Kermit green Cayman Rs from a few years back are doing well. I'm looking for one with a deviated stitching leather-wrapped water pump..... A nice, but run of the mill, 356A cabriolet is offered at $125K or so in the most recent PCA club mag.

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 10:14 AM (w6bKm)

308 204 The 2014 Corvette might just surpass and win from the Triumph TR-7 The Truly Hideous Sports Car award. The 2015 is a big improvement over the "chopped Camaro" look of the 2014. The taillights were changed, the rear roofline was smoothed to better resemble the Stingray coupe, and a few other lines were smoothed out pic.twitter.com/IDQLholrHX

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:15 AM (aTXUx)

309 @301 - ChumpCar/LeMons can be a lot of fun, but that "$500" is more like $5K minimum and probably significantly more after the cage, the 'safety-related equipment' like tires, brakes, etc. and spares for same, etc. It's still cheaper than most other forms of racing and very competitive.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:15 AM (o+SC1)

310
     I will still take my 68 Plymouth, thank you very much.

   Haven't yet had any newer car beat me with it's present configuration--yet.

     Plus the burnouts are awesome.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 18, 2014 10:16 AM (SAMxH)

311 In the first season of Get Smart, didn't Maxwell Smart drive a Karmann Ghia?

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 10:16 AM (xq1UY)

312

Nice split-window 'Vette, Vic.

 

Oh, and Santa, if you're still lurking, you can put one of those on my list for this Christmas. I've  been awfully good so far this year...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 10:19 AM (0HooB)

313 For the morons: And you though it was the end of elbow season... Looks like Daisy bought the General off of her cousins and painted it dark blue

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:19 AM (aTXUx)

314 I have a customer who had a 28,000 mile '97 C4S. Such a different car than a 996. Wish I could have afforded to buy it when he decided to sell, but my money is tied up in the '65 356SC.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 10:19 AM (8FyP4)

315 @308 - it's the difference between competence and character. The late-model Mustangs do all the things a car's supposed to do. The AC works, they don't fold up in a crash (remember, in '60s Mustangs the trunk floor was the gas tank just like a Pinto, they'll burn too just have to hit 'em a little harder), etc. They just aren't very interesting. And they're way too big and heavy. Modern-day ponycars have turned into Clydesdales, and for that kind of bulk and weight one might as well be in a CTS-V or an M5. The CTS-V is still about as much fun as you can have without bringing elbows into the discussion.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:20 AM (o+SC1)

316 @314 - thought the Sunbeam Tiger came first.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:21 AM (o+SC1)

317 That Ford went with the massive investment to delta to AL bodied F-150 tells me their lobbyist have foreseen no relief in the CAFE insanity.

Posted by: Joe Stalin at January 18, 2014 10:21 AM (4JkHl)

318 Instead of the Sentra, chemjeff I recommend an Ariel Atom.  Its a little quicker and gets good gas mileage.

Posted by: Joe Stalin at January 18, 2014 10:25 AM (4JkHl)

319 @304 - yeah, but IMO gotta be Nassau Blue.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:26 AM (o+SC1)

320 And if we're talking about something to keep original I'd sacrifice the spilt-window to get to '65 and disc brakes.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:26 AM (o+SC1)

321 I give the new Mustang two thumbs up. Not just lighter and better looking than the Camaro and Challenger, they finally decided to spend some money on the suspension with IRS. I'm betting it far outruns the Camaro and Charger with the 5.0 option. Jeremy Clarkson and Richard Hammond always yap about how much they love the Mustang but it's a pity it had such primitive suspension. Now they'll be happy lads, especially if the interior is upgraded from rental fleet styling and materials

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:27 AM (aTXUx)

322 @321 - I always figured whoever did the Atom had a thing for Brunel: http://is.gd/iChEck Never driven one but have a neighbor who just bought one, have to hover around his garage door occasionally.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:29 AM (o+SC1)

323 And the 23 window VW bus brings $140K.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 10:29 AM (8FyP4)

324 NDH and Countrysquire, thanks, y'all.   These car threads are fun.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at January 18, 2014 10:29 AM (0HooB)

325
     I much prefer the oldies--along with all the engineering advances of the newer stuff, they engineered the appeal right out of new cars.  Cookie cutter vehicles.

    Old vehicles have an honest charm that is absent from all of Detroit's offerings.  They are simply FUN.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 18, 2014 10:31 AM (SAMxH)

326 @324 - I'd like to like it but it's got to have a lower beltline and more glass than the last one, and I haven't seen one in person yet but I don't think they went that way, so... ...well, there's an old Mk1 Cortina shell out in the garage, and it ain't gonna trial-fit its own front suspension, so I'm out of here, later all.

Posted by: JEM at January 18, 2014 10:31 AM (o+SC1)

327 Left Stalin sock on

I bet Ol'Joe would had the Atom's designers shot - just because

Posted by: Jean at January 18, 2014 10:32 AM (4JkHl)

328 Hot Wheels (tm), baby, Hot Wheels (tm).

Posted by: tcn at January 18, 2014 10:33 AM (fwcEs)

329 @320 - if you invert mpg into gpm for all vehicles - like the Euros do with liters/100km - its easier to see why trucks are the low hanging fruit for increased efficiency. 2mpg better in an F150 is probably worth as much as 5mpg in a Camry in reduced fuel consumption (F150@12mpg vs Camry@30mpg)

Posted by: chuckR at January 18, 2014 10:33 AM (w6bKm)

330 How does aluminum do in a crash?

I had a crash with a Camry and that steel took the whole force of the blow. The car was a goner but I walked away.

Posted by: PJ at January 18, 2014 10:34 AM (ZWaLo)

331
The F-150 looks good and with less weight the smaller motor will probably give good performance and gas mileage.  I have always owned Ford truck for my business and they really are reliable. 

I like the look of the ATS from Cadillac.  I wish it was not made by Government Motors though.

The vette will get more styling accents as it matures and the new LT1 is reportedly an excellent performer.

The Mustang looks OK but I would argue it has not always needed a independent rear suspension.  I think they followed Camaro to make the ride cushier on the crappy roads of the crumbling empire.  IRS does not put power to the road like a stick axle and torque arm, three point or leaf springs.

Porsche still looking good, this defines "evergreen styling".



Thanks for the Car Thread!


Posted by: goatlover at January 18, 2014 10:36 AM (77Tn8)

332 And the 23 window VW bus brings $140K. Fucking shoot me. Do you know how many of those things (Multi Windows) I flipped while I was in college?

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 10:36 AM (TSdls)

333 You can still get Factory Five Cobras that are pretty good replicas of the originals, but I have bad news for you. The modern cars are superior in every way. I can run circles around your vaunted 65 GT-350 with my 11 GT/CS, and it's a 'vert. The newer cars have better motors, better brakes, better suspension, etc. The 12-14 Boss will run away from the old Shelby. Not that they weren't excellent cars in their day...but their day was nearly fifty years ago. Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 01:59 PM (yh0zB) You are absolutely correct sir. The old cars are nice collectors items but with the engineering and tech, even your average compact has better than 1:1 hp to ci ratio than the classic musclers did off the lot The styling on the old cars was far more interesting and artful (and far less wind resistant) than today's cookie cutter design, but saying that your old car is better than a new one is like saying you'd rather have a Commodore 64 on your desk right now than a pc or laptop you can pick up at the store now

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:38 AM (aTXUx)

334 My only Corvair story was back in the 60s when I was about 8-9 years old. My uncle had one, a convertible, and we were returning from a laundromat. He got it up to 100 mph, and clothes were flying out of the basket. My younger sister and I were holding onto the laundry to keep from losing any more. None of us were wearing seatbelts. Good memories.

Posted by: rickl at January 18, 2014 10:38 AM (sdi6R)

335 barrel bail

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:39 AM (aTXUx)

336 hmm don't know if I want car advice from Stalin

Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at January 18, 2014 10:39 AM (/B0pU)

337 You can still get Factory Five Cobras that are pretty good replicas of the originals Better off getting an AC Mk IV. It will increase in value.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 10:41 AM (ZKqbB)

338 Better off getting an AC Mk IV. It will increase in value. Posted by: garrett +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And they look like a real Cobra, unlike the FFR.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 10:44 AM (8FyP4)

339 And they look like a real Cobra, unlike the FFR. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 02:44 PM

Yeah, but Imma stick with the original, since I don't have the green for any of 'em. The old ones were in most ways inferior to the "continuation" and "copy" cars, but "rough," "crude" and "scary dangerous" in such devices are features, not bugs.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 10:48 AM (ff7/5)

340 I've lived long enough to know that the old cars are nice nostalgia, but the reality was that at 100K miles, it was pretty much done for. Cars now are just getting broken in at 100K. The 68 Mustang GT turns heads even today, but if it was used as a daily driver it was shot before the payment book reached the last slip.

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 10:48 AM (aTXUx)

341 Cars are a silly and stupid waste of money and valuable resources. They damage the environment and are often vehicles for social injustice and rape culture.


Except for the Prius and the Subaru Forester AWD station wagon. Those are socially acceptable vehicles for The People.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at January 18, 2014 10:48 AM (wyUSq)

342
   I don't recall saying I would rather have an older car as a daily driver--simple fact is the oldies are what I grew up with/around and repaired.

   I'm familiar with modern technology to the extent of being able to diagnose and repair most of it. It's how I made my living.

   Far too much of it is tech for tech's sake--that makes repair and usage damn expensive, when you have interrelated systems affecting each other.

    My take is the simpler you can keep a device and have it perform intended function, the better off you are.

      Y'all can still walk on my lawn, though.

Posted by: irongrampa at January 18, 2014 10:58 AM (SAMxH)

343 The best thing about the Factor Five Cobra is the race series that NASA has for them.  One thing that the series shows is that the original aerodynamics were not up to today's standards.  All the racers mess around with spoilers and the cars are still not that fast.  They sure sound good though what with the V8 and little mufflers.

Another nice cobra replica is the Superformance from South Africa.

Posted by: goatlover at January 18, 2014 10:59 AM (77Tn8)

344 Except for rust, no US cars were done for at 100K. But in the entire postwar era, almost no one did proper maintenance on cars. People bought cars for the sticker price, and felt that that was investment enough. If you took, say, a '51 Studebaker brand new, and instead of just changing the oil and greasing it once in a while, actually changed out the rusted fenders (not hard to do), put new rubber buffers in the suspension when they wore out, and so on, you'd get a lifetime of use out of it. I've seen several on their second or third lifetime. Cars were discarded because of their styling and a total unwillingness to treat them as the kingly investment they represented to the rest of the world.

Even the rust issues are understandable. Nobody owned a Packard or Pierce-Arrow in the 30's and left them parked at the curb n rain and snow. Guys of my dad's generation, and mine, were not going to maintain a clean dry garage and underbody rinse-rack for the family bus. Just did not see the sense in it. But if you did clean off the frame and fenders each time you drove, even the most rust-prone US cars of the 50's and 60's could hold up as well as any cars made anywhere. Rustproof cars had to be made, because we owners were not up to the task of keeping our cars derusted. We assumed a great deal. 

I wonder what it will be like, should cars still exist in 30 - 50 years, to try to restore a current sport or luxury car. All control modules are disposable. When the replacement stocks of logic bits are gone, you'll need a computer design engineer to mimic their functions in new circuitry.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 18, 2014 11:02 AM (xq1UY)

345 If I could have any car (and the money to keep it going) it would be a RS 200.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 11:03 AM (hNmhp)

346 I'd settle for any old Group B car...but the RS200 is something I could happily kill myself in.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 11:05 AM (hNmhp)

347 348 If I could have any car (and the money to keep it going) it would be a RS 200. Posted by: garrett +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ One of those little bastards would be a blast to drive.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 11:06 AM (8FyP4)

348 The wife is looking for a new car, and I'm not too far behind. No clue what to get. She has 260K on hers now, so anything real expensive will get ground up in no time, yet she spends so much time in a car it has to be nice. argh...

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at January 18, 2014 11:06 AM (FMbng)

349 One of those little bastards would be a blast to drive. Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 03:06 PM

You betcha! A little tight inside for six-foot-plus people like me, but you forget about that when the thing gets rolling.

Any of the "Bs" -- Renault 5 Turbo, Peugeot 205 Turbo 16, or Audi Sport Quattro (the short-wheelbase one) -- is a major rocker-off of socks.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 11:13 AM (ff7/5)

350 I've lived long enough to know that the old cars are nice nostalgia, but the reality was that at 100K miles, it was pretty much done for. Cars now are just getting broken in at 100K. The 68 Mustang GT turns heads even today, but if it was used as a daily driver it was shot before the payment book reached the last slip. Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 02:48 PM (aTXUx) Same here. I remember when my father would get nervous when the family car(we had one) had 40,000 miles on it and would start leaking, etc. and needed one part after another. 60,000 was amazing.... Course, the car cost around $3500 then, but still....

Posted by: Jen at January 18, 2014 11:13 AM (4t/Y9)

351 One of those little bastards would be a blast to drive. Yep. Right through a barbed wire fence. Sideways. Doing 95 mph.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 11:14 AM (BM8LX)

352 Yep. Right through a barbed wire fence. Sideways. Doing 95 mph. Posted by: garrett Well, at least you wouldn't be killing any spectators.

Posted by: Countrysquire at January 18, 2014 11:16 AM (8FyP4)

353 If you had access to one and lived where I do, you'd realize that was just an inevitability. There are miles and miles of endless ranch roads to romp on. Eventually you are going to make a mistake. That, or encounter a cow on the wrong side of the fences.

Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 11:20 AM (BM8LX)

354 Right through a barbed wire fence. Sideways. Doing 95 mph. Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 03:14 PM

I dunno about that. Seen any films/videos of European championship rallies from the '60s and '70s? Not a length of barbed wire (or any other form of spectator protection) in sight.

Must have been an Experience to watch a RS200 go hauling around a corner sideways and under full throttle six feet in front of you.

Posted by: MrScribbler at January 18, 2014 11:22 AM (ff7/5)

355 I remember cars in my day needed an oil change at 3K, spark plugs were always fouling, brakes were what you'd call nominal and if the temperature was under 40 and over 80 it was a miracle if the car started on the first try, or started without fucking with the choke plate. Since it was a Mopar (69 Road Runner and 72 340 Demon), even the Amish said that the suspension was antiquated

Posted by: kbdabear at January 18, 2014 11:30 AM (aTXUx)

356 351 The wife is looking for a new car, and I'm not too far behind. No clue what to get. She has 260K on hers now, so anything real expensive will get ground up in no time, yet she spends so much time in a car it has to be nice. argh... ....... Nice, reliable cars: Acura, Honda I am a huge fan of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and the dealers will usually bargain like crazy on the expiring model.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 12:07 PM (gljo6)

357 Audi is popular partly because Volkswagon Audi's engineering department is so strong now, plus they look pretty good. The Audi R8 is a supercar with a warranty for $200K or so. My F-250 4X4 with the V10 Triton gas engine is the best truck I've ever owned. About to turn 300K miles and it has the original exhaust and freon in it. Virtually just a gas and maintenance xpense.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 18, 2014 12:16 PM (71z/e)

358 I used to sometimes drive my buddy's Ford Sierra type thing in Scotland. Turbo Cosworth engine, one of only five built. Martin was a serious racer who worked offshore and left me the keys so I could stir my blood.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at January 18, 2014 12:21 PM (71z/e)

359 200 Yeah, I'm 6' 2". I just can't fit comfortably in a Toyota. Also, a truck without a long box is perfectly useless for me. Posted by: garrett at January 18, 2014 01:02 PM (4Z6IO) Are you talking about Tundras? My tundra's crewmax cab is cavernous. The bed is very short though. I just love Toyota quality. I'm a 5'8" ette. so maybe that's why it seems so big. It was built just a few miles from my house, and I bought it as a Fuck Cancer in the Ass reward.

Posted by: stace at January 18, 2014 12:40 PM (9PXzx)

360 Nice, reliable cars: Acura, Honda

I am a huge fan of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and the dealers will usually bargain like crazy on the expiring model.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 18, 2014 04:07 PM (gljo6)


Yeah, its an acura TL that has the 260K on it. They are pretty amazing. A new one is 36K though, ouch.

Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at January 18, 2014 12:59 PM (FMbng)

361 314 In the first season of Get Smart, didn't Maxwell Smart drive a Karmann Ghia?

3rd season.

Posted by: Anachronda at January 18, 2014 01:03 PM (U82Km)

362 GGE, you do know the '14 Mustang is as much better than your car as yours is better than the GT-350, right? Because for a second there I thought I saw the least little dribble of snot under your nose, and a wet spot behind your one ear there.



Wipe your nose. The 2011 and the 2014 share the same chassis, the 14 has a smidge more power and a bit better steering rack. The 2015 is the new chassis and it has yet to be evaluated (since it hasn't yet been released for public consumption).

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at January 18, 2014 01:08 PM (yh0zB)

363 If money was not an object at car-buying time? A 1987 model 3/4 ton Dodge with 12 bolt Cummins, and a new Subaru Forester, and a DeHavilland Turbo-Beaver, and a Hughes 500T. Money's no object, right?

Posted by: Erowmero at January 18, 2014 02:10 PM (OONaw)

364 Cool! a Dyna Panhard. All aluminum, two-stroke engine, IIRC. Kid in my high school drove one. Posted by: Men, everywhere at January 18, 2014 01:23 PM (60Q+L) Yah, a Dyna Z. Up to '56 the bodies were aluminum. After that, they switched to steel up to the end of the run, IIRC '61.

Posted by: Bill H at January 18, 2014 02:18 PM (3sZO1)

365 Yah, a Dyna Z. Up to '56 the bodies were aluminum. After that, they switched to steel up to the end of the run, IIRC '61. Sorry- that was '59. The PL17 took over and ran to '65. I tend to think of the two as basically the same car.

Posted by: Bill H at January 18, 2014 02:45 PM (3sZO1)

366 ALL Bluefin Tuna Caught In California Are Radioactive:

Every bluefin tuna tested in the waters off California has shown to be contaminated with radiation that originated in Fukushima. Every single one.

Posted by: habanero at January 21, 2014 09:01 AM (qQk+U)

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