Ace of Spades HQ

April 26, 2014

Saturday Car Thread 4/26/2014 - [Niedermeyer's Dead Horse]
— Open Blogger

Welcome to the Saturday car thread.

Buckle up and hide your open containers.

The UAW is still making noise. Despite the NLRB's surprising certification of the vote in Chattanooga and despite the UAW pulling back to rethink their strategy, they just won't go away. If they were looking to set precedent by disallowing for interaction between labor and all other parties, casting them out on to an island by themselves, free from all influence (other than that of the UAW, of course) then they have failed. And, thank God for that. but, But, BUT! It's all for the workers! Isolation is good for them, right?

Now, they aim to rake Governor Haslam over the coals for reneging (suspending) on an offer of $300M in incentives to VW, allegedly due to their cooperation with the UAW vote. This approach means that they can continue with the muckraking but won't be left holding the hot potato should VW decide to build their SUV in Mexico.

You can follow the UAW ~~drama~~ whining on twitter or, alternately, just look below for a snapshot of their current activities.

If ever you are in Stuttgart, you might want to drop in and visit the Motorworld complex.

Far beyond the borders of Germany, the magical place on the edge of the southern German city of BÃ¶blingen has become a national and international scene rendezvous. Allen, for classic cars, collectors' cars, sports cars and motorcycles are more than just practical means of locomotion, a hotspot is offered, which has no equal.
The attractive architecture of the monumental buildings of the former country airport WÃ¼rttemberg is combined with modern buildings. A high striking glass tower, "Tower 66", part of the building complex is open for visitors on the Approach via the A81 from far away to see.
The MOTOR WORLD is more than just a location for vintage and collectors' cars. With the above-average development of the excellent with the Real Estate Award in the metropolitan region of Stuttgart project to this extent no one expected. In the first year after opening in 2009, we recorded over 500,000 visitors and guests, at an annual rate of increase in the double-digit percentage range.

If you would like to spend more than just a day taking it in, you can spend a night in the V8 Hotel. All the travel sites rate it very near a 5-star experience, with the average rating being about a 4.8.

The video below is in German, but it's really the images that make it worth the watch.

First: I would really love to visit there. Second: This the USA. The home of Henry Ford and of the Corvette. Do we have anything here in the US that compares?

Name that car...

Perhaps the aggressive styling will provide a clue. (Answer provided farther down the post)

Anyone who blames the automobile for the pollution in cities, should watch this to see how they improved the situation:

Now, for the Moronettes:

And, for the Morons:

Answer to the 'Name that car' segment: It's the Marussia B2, Russia's first Super Car. The Ma Russia. Get it? Here's Top Speed's review of the 2012 model.

Please feel free to send any complaints or commendations to me at Twitter: Nied's Dead Horse.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:55 AM | Comments (171)
Post contains 553 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Oh, look, there's a woman in the picture of the Cougar. And First!

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 26, 2014 11:01 AM (QVC7W)

2 She's a bit young to be a cougar.

Posted by: fluffy at April 26, 2014 11:02 AM (Ua6T/)

3 Stuttgart and nicht mention of Porsche and its museum? Mein Gott!!

http://www.porsche.com/museum/en/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 11:04 AM (CWIQ2)

4 I live in Stuttgart. The major pain in the A due to constant road construction around the Motorworld place seems to escape notice, not to mention a very strategically placed speed camera.

I drive by the place occasionally and keep saying to myself I should drop in. People I know who've been there say it's worth a visit. I doubt it's better than the M-B museum, also here in Stuttgart. And it's not just built near the old Wurttemburg airport. The old Wurttemburg airport was a Luftwafffe base in WW II. History!

Posted by: Brennan at April 26, 2014 11:07 AM (t53qG)

5 I live in Stuttgart. *** YAY!!! We all have a place to stay in Stuttgart.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:09 AM (DmNpO)

6 Mecum auction going on on the Esquire channel.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 11:11 AM (hJauc)

7 A Russian supercar? Wonder if Putin owns one.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice, "Diverse in appearance, singular in thought" at April 26, 2014 11:11 AM (X2NEw)

8 Mecum auction going on on the Esquire channel. *** thanks. I have recently become hooked on the televised auctions.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:12 AM (DmNpO)

9 Yup. Party at Brennan's place. Wonder if he can get some of those cool Bavarian blouses for the 'ettes? I'm a sucker for those.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice, at April 26, 2014 11:13 AM (X2NEw)

10 A Russian supercar? Wonder if Putin owns one. *** I'd be surprised if he didn't. As Super Cars go, you can't beat the price. Although they sell out quickly, if you can get in line, they sell for under $150k.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:13 AM (DmNpO)

11
The SuperBird has got to be one of the weirdest cars ever.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 11:14 AM (hJauc)

12 Marussia? Looks like Lamborghiniski...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 11:15 AM (CWIQ2)

13 Careful, she's hiding some mighty sharp elbows in that tiny bikini.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at April 26, 2014 11:15 AM (A1Dcl)

14 There are a ton of much better photos of the MaRussia but they most had the tag and the emblem in plain view so I skipped them. I like this photo: http://bit.ly/1mKyt04 and this http://bit.ly/1jSoUs8

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:19 AM (DmNpO)

15 I spent some time in Stuttgart back in the day. It was significantly less anti-American than lots of other places in Germany where soldiers congregated. I don't know about today though.

Oddly, I was sitting here drinking a V8 as I watched the V8 Hotel vid.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 26, 2014 11:20 AM (BeSEI)

16 >>Wonder if he can get some of those cool Bavarian blouses for the 'ettes? And some cool Bavarian blondes for the rest of us!

Posted by: Aviator at April 26, 2014 11:22 AM (3rrMW)

17 Far beyond the borders of Germany, the magical place on the edge of the southern German city of BÃ¶blingen has become a national and international scene rendezvous.

Ohhhkkkaayyyy...

So, the southern German city of BÃ¶blingen is far beyond the borders of Germany? Neat trick.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at April 26, 2014 11:23 AM (N9I+M)

18 Seabrook, TX on May 2d will be an auto auction. Among the goodies are a 1965 GT-350 with race history, a few Porsche 365s of various versions, and Jaguar XK120s. Plus lots of other vehicles.

http://tinyurl.com/movmhnn

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 11:23 AM (CWIQ2)

19 Nice pic of a Cougar I like the car too

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 11:24 AM (aTXUx)

20 Wait. Annie Haslam was elected Governor? When did this happen?

Posted by: rickl at April 26, 2014 11:25 AM (sdi6R)

21 Outside of Stuttgart is Mercedes Benz factory at Sindelfingen. "Factory" kind of understates it; the place is a self-contained city with its own power generation plant, office buildings, restaurant and museum complex, test rack, and multiple assembly lines. They grind out 2,200 cars PER DAY there, including a daily average of 16 armor-plated S-Class sedans. The factory tour there is awesome. They turn flat sheets into car bodies with hardly a human being present, except as monitors. Don't miss it if you're ever in the area with some time to kill.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 26, 2014 11:25 AM (eSK7G)

22 17 -

The difference between within and beyond cannot be overstated. Or as Archer might say: "Phrasing!"

Posted by: BurtTC at April 26, 2014 11:26 AM (BeSEI)

23 1Â Oh, look, there's a woman in the picture of the Cougar. And First! Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at April 26, 2014 03:01 PM (QVC7W) ------ There's a picture of a Mercury up there somewhere? Huh. I didn't even notice.

Posted by: shredded chi at April 26, 2014 11:26 AM (UIcs1)

24 Here's a fantastic looking 55 Chevy http://tinyurl.com/koqgvhs

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 11:26 AM (aTXUx)

25 While there are many sexier images of young ladies at Oktoberfest,this is still my favorite http://tinyurl.com/n4jxpsv

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice, at April 26, 2014 11:27 AM (X2NEw)

26 Anyone checked the prices for ordinary new cars lately?

Posted by: Williams of the Rain Forest at April 26, 2014 11:27 AM (NLfct)

27 Here's a girl using a Honda as a trampoline http://tinyurl.com/kmzxmuz

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 11:28 AM (aTXUx)

28 Y'all can come on over! I'll lay out mattresses in the untergeschoss rooms. It's Ace of Spades Lifetsyle (TM) accommodation at its finest! Also, easy access to hobos! lol

Posted by: Brennan at April 26, 2014 11:28 AM (t53qG)

29 I actually had a Cougar like that when I was in high school, only a less garish color.

Posted by: Aviator at April 26, 2014 11:29 AM (3rrMW)

30 Ma Russia. Heh.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 26, 2014 11:29 AM (eFLE3)

31 This the USA. The home of Henry Ford and of the Corvette. Do we have anything here in the US that compares? Ell, if you're a foreign tourist you can get murdered in Detroit.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 26, 2014 11:29 AM (eSK7G)

32 "Y'all can come on over! I'll lay out mattresses in the untergeschoss rooms. It's Ace of Spades Lifetsyle (TM) accommodation at its finest! Also, easy access to hobos! lol" Finally,the Moron Meet-up concept goes international! Does one have to declare Hobo pelts upon returning to CONUS?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice, at April 26, 2014 11:31 AM (X2NEw)

33 25 -

No, she's pretty freakin' awesome. Extra points for being able to hold that tankard without breaking a sweat or a nail.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 26, 2014 11:31 AM (BeSEI)

34 29Â I actually had a Cougar like that when I was in high school, only a less garish color. Posted by: Aviator at April 26, 2014 03:29 PM (3rrMW) -------- Me, too! She was 28, newly divorced, and on my mom's bowling team... ahh, memories.

Posted by: shredded chi at April 26, 2014 11:32 AM (UIcs1)

35 Speaking of beerfests and dirndls, I dropped into the Stuttgart Fruelingsfest (Springtime equivalent of Oktoberfest) today. Weather was great! And the elbows were quite teh sharp!

Posted by: Brennan at April 26, 2014 11:32 AM (t53qG)

36 Brennan, pictures or the Horde will not believe.

And this guy is on crack. Wanting $79k US for this 356A?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1630600

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 11:34 AM (CWIQ2)

37 32 - I think you can import two duty-free.

Posted by: Brennan at April 26, 2014 11:34 AM (t53qG)

38 And this guy is on crack. Wanting $79k US for this 356A? *** If we watch long enough we'll probably see one at the Mecum auction for less.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:35 AM (DmNpO)

39 The factory tour there is awesome. They turn flat sheets into car bodies with hardly a human being present, except as monitors. Don't miss it if you're ever in the area with some time to kill. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 26, 2014 03:25 PM (eSK7G) That's why German autoworkers unions are not the same 4 hour lunch break fatasses that comprise the UAW. They have highly trained technicians, not 300 lb illiterates tightening lug nuts at $45 per hour. VW somehow doesn't get this

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 11:35 AM (aTXUx)

40 36 - I'm kinda kicking myself, as for some dumb-ass reason I left the iPad at home. But the images reside in my brain, and in there, they're all of legal age.

Wait, did I type that out loud?

Posted by: Brennan at April 26, 2014 11:37 AM (t53qG)

41
Mecum auction going on on the Esquire channel.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 03:11 PM (hJauc)

They'll be in my neck of the woods in mid August for the big car week and it's free.

Posted by: YIKES! at April 26, 2014 11:37 AM (mETGQ)

42 Clayton Wood ‏@WoodClayton Bundy will be discussed constantly yet media will gloss over Sterling the Democrat billionaire. Party of slavery and segregation gets a pass

Posted by: Separate but Stupid at April 26, 2014 11:39 AM (ZPrif)

43 "But the images reside in my brain, and in there, they're all of legal age." I understand completely.

Posted by: Hairy Reed, Ice Cream Truck operator at April 26, 2014 11:40 AM (X2NEw)

44 And I just noticed someone on The Samba just listed Four 4 VW Karmann Ghias in Jackson, MS for sale.

Roadtrip I guess to inspect.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 11:40 AM (CWIQ2)

45 Wow! http://t.co/hj1gTUPNoW

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:41 AM (DmNpO)

46 40 -

Now wait a goshdarned cotton-pickin' minute! That's TWO things you now must prove: you were at a beerfest in Germany. And you have an ipad.

Get thee back out there this instant!

Posted by: BurtTC at April 26, 2014 11:42 AM (BeSEI)

47 "That's why German autoworkers unions are not the same 4 hour lunch break fatasses that comprise the UAW. They have highly trained technicians, not 300 lb illiterates tightening lug nuts at $45 per hour. VW somehow doesn't get this"

The UAW managed to blow up Volkswagen's first attempt at Stateside manufacturing back in the 1970s and 1980s, the Pennsylvania plant which made the then-Rabbit.

Everyone at VW corporate who remembered that utter disaster has now retired (a consequence for institutional memory that occurs with early European pensionable ages). And so now the disaster will begin anew.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 26, 2014 11:43 AM (noWW6)

48 As far a experiences for the motorhead in the US... The Hery Ford museum makes a trip to Detroit giganticly worth while. Cars, trains, planes, guns, and brobdinagian steam engines. It's simply amazing.

Posted by: Doug Winship at April 26, 2014 11:43 AM (slu2f)

49 I was told there would be hemp cars. http://www.riseearth.com/2014/02/henry-fords-suppressed-hemp-car-what-we.html#.U1wMN1dAc_w

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 26, 2014 11:44 AM (LJ7Ze)

50 5th generation Camaro customized to imagine what a 5th gen Firebird would have looked like http://tinyurl.com/m6xoxfv

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 11:45 AM (aTXUx)

51 As far a experiences for the motorhead in the US... The Hery Ford museum makes a trip to Detroit giganticly worth while. Cars, trains, planes, guns, and brobdinagian steam engines. It's simply amazing. ** If you're ever in the Ft Myers, FL area, you MUST check out the Ford and Edison museum there. Ft Myers was the Winter home of Ford and Edison who, along with Firestone, were best friends. I could have spent all day there. To see Henry Ford's very own Ford parked there was just something. Edison's lab... just wow!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:46 AM (DmNpO)

52 Unless you have a serious rodent repellent system, you might want to rethink the mattresses thing.

Posted by: The last guy who threw a horde party at April 26, 2014 11:47 AM (uPtQh)

53 5th generation Camaro customized to imagine what a 5th gen Firebird would have looked like *** that's pretty cool.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:47 AM (DmNpO)

54 Posted by: Doug Winship at April 26, 2014 03:43 PM (slu2f)

It's in Dearborn, just to the West of Detroit. I lived in Ann Arbor for awhile as a kid, and we used to go all the time.

Awesome....just awesome.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 26, 2014 11:47 AM (QFxY5)

55 Ford's Hemp Car was a pipedream.

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 26, 2014 11:49 AM (LJ7Ze)

56 I just noticed up in the corner of the screen that at 5 pm the auction will move from the Esquire channel to NBCSN.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:51 AM (DmNpO)

57 CDB, I dropped something in a comment for you last week sometime but don't know if you saw it. My sister and I bought some Argentine Red shrimp last week. I had never seen them before but they were collossal size and bright red. They were priced at $7.99 lb vs the $11.99 lb for domestic collossals. They were OUTSTANDING! They cooked very quickly and were the easiest to peel of any shrimp I've ever had. AND, they have a taste and texture much like lobster. Very interesting.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:54 AM (DmNpO)

58 Sorry for the OT NDH but just wanted to post this if anybody is interested. Andrew Branca's debate at Berkeley. http://tinyurl.com/mf7wvf8

Posted by: RWC at April 26, 2014 11:55 AM (QeH9j)

59 Sorry for the OT NDH but just wanted to post this if anybody is interested. Andrew Branca's debate at Berkeley. http://tinyurl.com/mf7wvf8 ** I'm not concerned in the least about going OT. Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:56 AM (DmNpO)

60
I remember standing on top of a deuce and a half at the QM laundry in Stuttgart watching cars go around the test track.

You could only see them at the top of the sloped track, when they were balls out. Pretty neat.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 26, 2014 11:57 AM (SAMxH)

61 CBD: I also bet that at Motorworld you can't ride real Model T's around, then go watch them make you an F150. I also love the video at the plant where they tell you that the Rouge sorta fought and won WWII all by its lonesome....

Posted by: Doug Winship at April 26, 2014 11:58 AM (S6I/9)

62 It's VW. They have not, and do not understand the American market, nor local customs & regulations... t-wrench is correct.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 11:58 AM (gXRIG)

63 Why couldn't Detroit build something like Motorworld? It seems it would be a big tourist draw.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 11:59 AM (DmNpO)

64 It took the Japanese a while to make AC and automatic transmissions standard equipment.

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 26, 2014 12:00 PM (LJ7Ze)

65 BTW, was in Ludwigsburg a few weeks ago....

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:02 PM (gXRIG)

66 It took the Japanese a while to make AC and automatic transmissions standard equipment. *** I remember buying a used car that had no AC. In Florida. The bastards saw me test the system on a cool night and didn't say a word. Then, the weather turned warm and the AC didn't work. I took it to a repair shop and learned that there wasn't even an AC in it! I wonder where used car dealers get their bad reputation.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:02 PM (DmNpO)

67 @ 66

They earned it one car at a time, NDH.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 26, 2014 12:03 PM (SAMxH)

68 #63, two words: Porsche Atlanta.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:04 PM (gXRIG)

69 Full debate http://tinyurl.com/lxmag5o

Posted by: RWC at April 26, 2014 12:05 PM (QeH9j)

70 Those auctions must do surprisingly well on a ratings per cost of programming metric. Both NBC Sports and Fox Sports have car auctions. Presumably goes along with the demographic they are trying to reach. Fox Sports has them since they were Speed last year, but NBC Sports has specifically gone out to add car auction programming with the Mecum auctions. They don't do great ratings, but they do decent ratings and are cheap to produce.

Posted by: Separate but Stupid at April 26, 2014 12:08 PM (ZPrif)

71 Think Kwami Kilpatrick, John Conyers, John Dingle, Zombie Coleman Young, Detroit city council (like the local version of the CBC). That's why. It would have to be built outside of the city of Detroit. Detroit is like Mogadishu.

Posted by: Micihgan and Oiho at April 26, 2014 12:08 PM (uPtQh)

72 @47 - yeah, VW came into the US and hired a bunch of feckless GM management to run their US operation, who ran VW in Pennsylvania with every bit as much ability as they'd run their fiefdoms at GM. VW at least had the sense to quickly recognize they'd dug themselves a hole, and to stop digging. Within a surprisingly short window VW's mass-market cars were coming from Mexico. The UAW has to consider what happens if some other union decides to horn in on its territory, right now the guys at IG Metall have to be thinking about who they really want to be associated with in the US.

Posted by: JEM at April 26, 2014 12:08 PM (Xk+og)

73 Nice car..., and I don't even like green cars.

Posted by: Gaia at April 26, 2014 12:08 PM (aDwsi)

74 @68 - oh, you mean the site where Ford built my SHO?

Posted by: JEM at April 26, 2014 12:09 PM (Xk+og)

75
That Boss 429 went for $260K.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:10 PM (hJauc)

76 afternoon, moronosexuals

Posted by: Soothie § at April 26, 2014 12:10 PM (qvQlU)

77 I'm not concerned in the least about going OT. Thanks for the link. Posted by: Niedermeyer's --------------- Get a horse, you auto-zealots!

Posted by: Gaia at April 26, 2014 12:12 PM (aDwsi)

78 #74, Yep. Hint: it's not a Ford place anymore...

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:12 PM (gXRIG)

79 That Boss 429 went for $260K. Posted by: Guy ---------- That was the barn-find of a few weeks back?

Posted by: Gaia at April 26, 2014 12:13 PM (aDwsi)

80 Nothing worse than a car that's difficult to get in and out of. Even if I owned the General Lee the first thing I'd do was fix the doors.

Posted by: Soothie § at April 26, 2014 12:13 PM (qvQlU)

81 I was all set to go to the first 'Cruise In' of the season, but yesterday's rain made it far to muddy to talk Elsie out.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 26, 2014 12:14 PM (l3vZN)

82 That Boss 429 went for $260K. *** Mecum Auctions ‏@mecum 2m The first Candy Apple Red 1969 Ford #Mustang Boss 429 built #SOLD for $260,000 at #Mecum #KansasCity! pic.twitter.com/hH77Wl5Juy

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:14 PM (DmNpO)

83 take out not talk out.....

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at April 26, 2014 12:14 PM (l3vZN)

84
Not sure Gaia...don't think so...they said this was the first Boss with the candy apple red color.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:14 PM (hJauc)

85 Guy - Got it. I just dropped into the thread.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 26, 2014 12:15 PM (aDwsi)

86 Yep. The very first built and sold. Here's the details. http://t.co/iLYHX2owss

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:16 PM (DmNpO)

87 hahaha @ the NBA "investigating" racial comments made by owner of the L.A. Clippers what a fascist joke this nation has become

Posted by: Soothie § at April 26, 2014 12:16 PM (qvQlU)

88
here was one of my favorites of the auction:

http://tinyurl.com/l4hfma9

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:22 PM (hJauc)

89 Love me a Mecum auction weekend.

They've had three - THREE! - Auburn boat-tail Speedster replicas come across the block. I've never heard of these replicas. The Auburn Speedster is possibly the most beautiful car ever made, and the idea of owning a replica for under $35K is massively appealing.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 26, 2014 12:23 PM (celt+)

90 here was one of my favorites of the auction: ** I saw that up there a little while ago. It was funny listening to all the items which are standard today but weren't even available then.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:24 PM (DmNpO)

91 1931 Packard coming up soon

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:25 PM (DmNpO)

92 I want that Camaro!!!! Up to $61k now.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:26 PM (DmNpO)

93 Customized 58 Chevy Impala. Love the color coordination with the model pic.twitter.com/a2vZ3we2ww

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 12:28 PM (aTXUx)

94 Best thing about the Mecum auction is knowing that I could buy a minty-looking twenty-year-old Mercedes SL500 for less than a base Kia.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 26, 2014 12:28 PM (celt+)

95 @ 88

"here was one of my favorites of the auction"

Nice old truck. I do love seeing them restored to original and NOT modified.

Spoils an old car or truck to mess with it.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 26, 2014 12:29 PM (SAMxH)

96 Tidbit: Ever wonder why Senior Executives for whatever firm you're around never travel together? It's VWoA history - The Lockerbie bombing killed two key executives, Jim & Lou, along w/their assistants and a secretary. That + the continued decline saw VW *almost* pull out of the US by '92.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:31 PM (gXRIG)

97 Best thing about the Mecum auction is knowing that I could buy a minty-looking twenty-year-old Mercedes SL500 for less than a base Kia. *** There was a beautiful silver 2004 SL 500 convertible up a little while ago. It went for, IIRC, under $30k

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:31 PM (DmNpO)

98 here was one of my favorites of the auction: http://tinyurl.com/l4hfma9 Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 04:22 PM (hJauc) I'm betting that's one of the most bidded on vehicles there Straight restorations are the most popular at those auctions

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 12:32 PM (aTXUx)

99 The 1931 Packard is up now

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:33 PM (DmNpO)

100 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. Later.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 26, 2014 12:36 PM (9W+0f)

101 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. *** What?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:37 PM (DmNpO)

102 100 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. Later. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 26, 2014 04:36 PM (9W+0f) it's a car thread but that fact appears to be lost on you

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 26, 2014 12:37 PM (u8GsB)

103 If I wanted to build a ten-car collection representing 1910-2000, with one representative or significant car per decade, at reasonable costs, I think I'd go with:

1910s - Ford Model T
1920s - Pierce-Arrow
1930s - Ford Model A Roadster
1940s - Willys Jeep
1950s - Anything two-toned and kitschy (not a Tri-5 Chevy, too easy)
1960s - '69 Mustang Mach 1
1970s - '72 Corvette
1980s - BMW 3-series or Lamborghini Countach
1990s - no idea. What was significant, or evocative of the '90s? Is there a "90s car"?
2000s - again, no idea. Probably just throw a wing on my Scion tC to represent ricers.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 26, 2014 12:37 PM (celt+)

104 it's a car thread but that fact appears to be lost on you *** IIRC, he does this every single week.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:40 PM (DmNpO)

105 A Shelby Raptor pickup truck?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:41 PM (DmNpO)

106 1990s - no idea. What was significant, or evocative of the '90s? Is there a "90s car"? *** Viper

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:41 PM (DmNpO)

107 On the NBA owner tirade -- from the transcript I read it's not clear if he didn't want black people in general at his games. Read to me that he didn't want her (his gf who is 30+ years younger than him) to bring the black dudes she was banging to Clippers game. Sounded more like it's excerpts from an odd relationship where the old, rich white guy owner is telling his much younger gf (who's part mexican, part black, I think) that he doesn't care who she sleeps with, just don't bring them to the game and throw it in his face. And it appears he finds it especially sexually humiliating when she brings black dudes she's banging. All sorts of relationship weirdness and sexual hangups on display. I'm assuming it was the gf who leaked the audio, presumably for the same reason she was parading dudes she was cheating on him with at Clippers games -- to humiliate him.

Posted by: Separate but Stupid at April 26, 2014 12:42 PM (ZPrif)

108 96 Tidbit: Ever wonder why Senior Executives for whatever firm you're around never travel together? It's VWoA history - The Lockerbie bombing killed two key executives, Jim & Lou, along w/their assistants and a secretary. That + the continued decline saw VW *almost* pull out of the US by '92. Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 04:31 PM (gXRIG) Same thing happened to Trump when his top casino execs died in a helicopter crash. Those guys knew what they were doing along with Ivana. The Donald thought he could run the casinos himself and they'd be a great place to hide Marla. His best chance of keeping his hotels running was with Ivana and he sent her back to NY. Trump didn't know jack about casinos and it showed in a big hurry

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 12:42 PM (aTXUx)

109 Shelby Raptor truck - it's got electrolytes!

Hot-rod pickup trucks that never haul cargo - #127 in Things That I Just Don't Get.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 26, 2014 12:43 PM (celt+)

110 in n out burger

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 26, 2014 12:44 PM (u8GsB)

111 I see that #BoycottTheClippers is trending at the top on Twitter I would imagine by pasty white liberal kids who weren't personally affected in the least but will demand that Sterling be hung from the town square to sooth their personal butthurt

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 12:45 PM (aTXUx)

112 Important question, NDH: does the Marussia come equipped with whale penis leather seating surfaces? I'll cut them some slack and assume that at $150K, the rest of the interior is done in naugahyde.

Posted by: Bill H at April 26, 2014 12:47 PM (3sZO1)

113 I see that #BoycottTheClippers is trending at the top on Twitter *** Tix for cheap!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:47 PM (DmNpO)

114 "The UAW has to consider what happens if some other union decides to horn in on its territory, right now the guys at IG Metall have to be thinking about who they really want to be associated with in the US."

I actually figure that IG Metall _know_ that the UAW are fuckups and will ruin any Stateside venture. IG Metall _want_ this. Specifically so.

Because it's going to be getting more and more expensive to manufacture cars in Germany, where IG Metall's members live and work. (Thanks in large measure to German "green energy" mandates.)

The natural response of any business would be to move more production abroad where it will be cheaper. IG Metall's membership are scared of this. And, a key destination would be in the States.

Hence the push to get the UAW in the shop in Tennessee. It'll ruin quality and productivity, and the German union workers will be able to say to VW corporate, hey, we're expensive to be sure, but we do a better job for you net-net than the Stateside plant does. Higher customer satisfaction, fewer warranty costs.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 26, 2014 12:47 PM (noWW6)

115 So which is trending faster?

BoycottTheClippers or IStandWithUkraine?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 12:48 PM (CWIQ2)

116
Come on, that 57 vette went for less than that 2013 "shelby" truck?

Maybe I am gettin old.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:48 PM (hJauc)

117 FWIW- I have a MOMO steering wheel for sale, haven't posted it on Ebay yet, but soon.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 26, 2014 12:49 PM (aDwsi)

118 39 The factory tour there is awesome. They turn flat sheets into car bodies with hardly a human being present, except as monitors. Don't miss it if you're ever in the area with some time to kill. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 26, 2014 03:25 PM (eSK7G) That's why German autoworkers unions are not the same 4 hour lunch break fatasses that comprise the UAW. They have highly trained technicians, not 300 lb illiterates tightening lug nuts at $45 per hour. VW somehow doesn't get this Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 03:35 PM (aTXUx) I think it's inverted, the Germans embraced automation because their labor costs were insane. It was that or go under.

Posted by: Jean at April 26, 2014 12:50 PM (Aqvh6)

119 What was significant, or evocative of the '90s? Is there a "90s car"? Sure. The '94 Dodge Ram Pickup. More than any other vehicle, it moved the pickup from the stable to the garage...

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:50 PM (gXRIG)

120 Here's the photo of that Shelby pickup http://t.co/yqczNGVerX UGGGGLY!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at April 26, 2014 12:51 PM (DmNpO)

121 Saab

Posted by: Jerry Seinfield and 'smart' Yuppies everywhere at April 26, 2014 12:52 PM (aDwsi)

122
They had a 97 Viper on the block a while ago that could represent the 90's.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:52 PM (hJauc)

123 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. Later. Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 26, 2014 04:36 PM (9W+0f) There is absolutely nothing stopping you from starting your own blog and ranting on about Russian imperialism there. We already do enough politics here. This post is a once-weekly thing for fun. Sorry you're too fucking dense to realize that.

Posted by: Bill H at April 26, 2014 12:52 PM (3sZO1)

124 121 Saab Don't cry. Obama won't be president forever.

Posted by: grammie winger. Romans 1:16 at April 26, 2014 12:53 PM (oMKp3)

125 That Jamaican chick looks sweaty and seven feet tall.

Posted by: Color blind at April 26, 2014 12:53 PM (wu/TK)

126 Was that 'Shelby' truck authorized by Shelby and did Carrol sign it? If not to either - fool, money, parted.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 12:53 PM (CWIQ2)

127 I'll cut them some slack and assume that at $150K, the rest of the interior is done in naugahyde. It's cruel to kill naugas just for their hydes.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 26, 2014 12:54 PM (mx5oN)

128 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. *** What? Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse *** This is what we call here at AoS the "Miss Marple" syndrome.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative riding Orca at April 26, 2014 12:55 PM (+1T7c)

129 t-wrench, I like it, but not as the primary reason. The "overt" rationale is that VWGoA (using VWAG guidelines) wanted to do as the parent company does everywhere else - establish a "works council" - a group that, depending on local custom/law will be the main liaison between labor & management. It's a brilliant concept that works quite well, but sadly, falls afoul of the Wagner Act. You're in the US? You can't do that. Get the UAW full bore or nothing. Sad, really.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 12:55 PM (gXRIG)

130 Taro, Tucker48 for the fifties?

Posted by: Jean at April 26, 2014 12:55 PM (tt3kE)

131 Re Sterling. There is no private life anymore. All that is important are your politics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6raF7kcJJs

Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 26, 2014 12:55 PM (aDwsi)

132
Nah, there is just a Shelby garage where you can get your Ford shelbied.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 12:56 PM (hJauc)

133 There are some people who have a lot of difficulty with social communication skills. They miss cues and generally have a hard time with the back and forth of conversation.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 26, 2014 12:56 PM (oMKp3)

134 #126, Anna Puma --

There was a time when Ol' Shel would sign damn near any piece of a car that was even remotely related to him. I've seen fake-O Cobras with his signature on the glove box doors....

All that said, he was a good dude and a sharp marketing-type. Any man who could make the original GT-350 Mustang happen and successfully run Ford's racing program in the '60s was no dummy. He had good ideas, and he knew who to hire to make 'em happen.

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 12:57 PM (dDzOj)

135 * ponders withdrawing comment re Sterling * Okay..., I didn't actually post that. It was the cat, yeah that's it..., the cat.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 26, 2014 12:58 PM (aDwsi)

136 The "Miss Marple" syndrome: Bringing up some super-important topic that is daily discussed at AoS into some special interest thread, demanding we all be "serious you guys" 24/7/365.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative riding Orca at April 26, 2014 12:59 PM (+1T7c)

137 Who's Sterling and what has he done?

Posted by: grammie winger at April 26, 2014 01:00 PM (oMKp3)

138 "a sharp marketing-type." How 'bout "shameless and tireless self promoter, huckster, and all 'round good guy?"

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:00 PM (gXRIG)

139 Nah, there is just a Shelby garage where you can get your Ford shelbied. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 04:56 PM (hJauc) That's pretty much the way it's always been. Complete cars are drop shipped to Shelby and then converted. Certainly was the case when I worked at Shelby in Whittier, where the Shelby Dakotas were built. I don't know about the new Mustangs- there might be a dedicated line that finishes cars as necessary at Ford.

Posted by: Bill H at April 26, 2014 01:00 PM (3sZO1)

140 123 Understanding the UAW's arguments is very important. The Russians' arguments? Not so much. Starting WWIII seems like a good idea. But the UAW? Absolutely. Later Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 26, 2014 04:36 PM (9W+0f) If the Ewok had been running this thread that would have been your swan song We spend Mon-Fri solving the world's problems. Even God took a day off

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 01:01 PM (aTXUx)

141
Once Caroll was gone it seems to me its not truly a Shelby.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 26, 2014 01:02 PM (hJauc)

142 Sterling was a car as well. A partnership between Austin Rover and Honda. Crappy cars that didn't sell well.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 26, 2014 01:03 PM (jucos)

143 How 'bout "shameless and tireless self promoter, huckster, and all 'round good guy?" Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 05:00 PM

How about: he was a helluva good race driver, and was smart enough to sell his product (himself) without a legion of lawyers, PR "Consultants" and assorted hangers-on to do the dirty work for him?

Shelby made himself a fortune, but he deserved every dime of it.

Except maybe for some of the crap he did with Dodge....

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:03 PM (dDzOj)

144 96 Tidbit: Ever wonder why Senior Executives for whatever firm you're around never travel together? Same thing happened to Albertsons. Plane crash while touring potential sites wiped out management (and part of the family, iirc). And there's a monument at The Bro^admoor to the US figure skating team killed in a crash in the 50s.

Posted by: Fox2! at April 26, 2014 01:03 PM (cHwSy)

145 "crap he did with Dodge" Ok, as a proud (former) owner of one of the aforementioned Omni platform rides, I challenge you to a duel of honor, sir.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:04 PM (gXRIG)

146 Oh gee Chicago Cubs 100 years of Wrigley Field Special historical tribute on W G N

Posted by: grammie winger at April 26, 2014 01:05 PM (oMKp3)

147 Nice Lowrider chassis display http://tinyurl.com/mectddr

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 01:05 PM (aTXUx)

148 Sterling was a car as well. A partnership between Austin Rover and Honda. Crappy cars that didn't sell well. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 26, 2014 05:03 PM

I drove one of the first Sterlings, a press car (supposedly) carefully vetted before it went out for testing.

Halfway home, it started p*ssing rain. The electrical system took a dump, leaving me with an open sunroof and power windows in the "down" position. Somehow, that dampened my enthusiasm for the Rover-ized Acura Legend just a wee bit.

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:06 PM (dDzOj)

149 I'm gonna cry aren't I? Yes, yes I am.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 26, 2014 01:06 PM (oMKp3)

150 Shelby and Dodge, even good guys have off days.

Carrol went from a farmer to racing legend to shrewd salesman and philanthropist. Not a bad record at all. And he beat Ferrari.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 26, 2014 01:07 PM (CWIQ2)

151 Doctors: Carroll, sorry to tell you, you've got heart problems.

Carroll Shelby: Ok. Think I'll be a race car driver.

Doctors: All righty then...

Posted by: history at April 26, 2014 01:07 PM (IlmuV)

152 Ok, as a proud (former) owner of one of the aforementioned Omni platform rides, I challenge you to a duel of honor, sir. Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 05:04 PM

You have my condolences!

Well, there was one...Shelby's own GLH with the turbo boost cranked WAY up, making some ungodly amount of horsepower when it wasn't killing CV joints. That was scary enough to be fun!

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:09 PM (dDzOj)

153 "Rover-ized Acura Legend" Ah, the joys of a National Automobile Manufacturer. What could go wrong?

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:09 PM (gXRIG)

154 Ah, the joys of a National Automobile Manufacturer. What could go wrong? Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 05:09 PM

We won't even talk about the hijinks one could experience out in the desert with a Range Rover equipped with a Marelli electrical system....

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:11 PM (dDzOj)

155 We spend Mon-Fri solving the world's problems. Even God took a day off Posted by: kbdabear Okay, who did the Almighty negotiate THAT with?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative riding Orca at April 26, 2014 01:11 PM (+1T7c)

156 The best Range Rovers were the stripped down safari trucks. Sturdy and dependable as hell.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 26, 2014 01:12 PM (jucos)

157 Condolences my a$$. I had one of the 500 '86s. The little rig could outrun just about everything (new) on the road (it was the 80s, people), and was veeeery easily tunable. Of course, I'm not sure which lasted longer - CV joints or front tires. Either way, it was a fine little ride.

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:13 PM (gXRIG)

158 Lucas = making the Italians (Marelli) look good since 19whatever (20?).

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:15 PM (gXRIG)

159 The best Range Rovers were the stripped down safari trucks. Sturdy and dependable as hell. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 26, 2014 05:12 PM

Yeah, I used to love all the film footage of them slogging through Darkest Africa.

Aluminum bodies don't like American Jeep trails, though.

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:16 PM (dDzOj)

160 1990s - no idea. What was significant, or evocative of the '90s? Is there a "90s car"? Acura NSX, Dodge Viper and McLaren F1 spring to mind, though I don't know how significant or evocative of the '90s they were. /taps chin You actually could make an argument for the Miata being evocative of the '90s, even if it was introduced in '89.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 26, 2014 01:18 PM (Gxtki)

161 Sterling was a car as well. A partnership between Austin Rover and Honda. Crappy cars that didn't sell well. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 26, 2014 05:03 PM (jucos) Actually Sterling was the US branding for the then-current Rover, because the name Rover here was such a pile of doo.

Posted by: Bill H at April 26, 2014 01:19 PM (3sZO1)

162 Lucas = making the Italians (Marelli) look good since 19whatever (20?). Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 05:15 PM

Funny thing: I've owned four (count 'em!) cars with Lucas electrics, and never had the slightest trouble with them. I've heard all the jokes from the uninitiated, who never had any experience with them.

Of course I'd say the same about SU carburetors, which are unbelievably easy to adjust and even easier to service.

Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 01:20 PM (dDzOj)

163 Get willow. Nood.

Posted by: Y-not at April 26, 2014 01:22 PM (zDsvJ)

164 OK, thinking about it a little more, in terms of actual automotive trends, the Ford Explorer would have to be the significant car of the '90s.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 26, 2014 01:24 PM (Gxtki)

165 Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 05:20 PM (dDzOj) I could say the same thing about all of the Citroens, Peugeots and renaults I've owned. By far and away fewer problems than the Mercedes 300TE I currently own and the Mercury Sable I had previously. Would you believe me? Majik 8-Ball says "Not just no, but hell no!".

Posted by: Bill H at April 26, 2014 01:27 PM (3sZO1)

166 One car per decade? Uh...a car representative of the 'best' or representative of the market? For 'milestones' pick any of the following. '60s - Mercedes 300SEL 6.3, Boss 302 Mustang, '69 Z28, Jaguar E-type (early 3.8 roadster), '65 fuelie 'Vette, Lotus Cortina, Datsun 510, BMW 1602/2002. '70s - BMW 3.0S/Bavaria, '70 Z28, Buick GS/GSX, Porsche 930 Turbo, BMW M1, Datsun 240Z, VW Rabbit GTI (US didn't get it until the ' 80s but the rest of the world had it MUCH earlier) '80s - Renault 5 Turbo, Porsche 944, '86 Mustang 5.0, ST165 Celica GT-Four/Alltrac, E28 BMW M5, Taurus SHO. I'm sure I could come up with more but I'm out of time.

Posted by: JEM at April 26, 2014 01:32 PM (Xk+og)

167 Hmm. Had a TR6 - electrics were OK. The TR-8? Not so. Pretty much guaranteed a Lucas event each and every week...

Posted by: anon a mouse at April 26, 2014 01:34 PM (gXRIG)

168 Funny thing: I've owned four (count 'em!) cars with Lucas electrics, and never had the slightest trouble with them. I've heard all the jokes from the uninitiated, who never had any experience with them. Posted by: MrScribbler at April 26, 2014 05:20 PM (dDzOj) Head over to the UK with proof of that and they'll make you their King

Posted by: kbdabear at April 26, 2014 01:37 PM (aTXUx)

169 @167 - that's because the TR6, at least until the smog days, had simple enough electrics that even Lucas couldn't f it up. To be fair to the TR8, most early EFI systems were hell. Non-weathersealed electrical connectors, analog electronics that couldn't really compensate for misbehaving/drifting sensors, etc. Much as I loathe the EPA, the fact is that 50K+ mile emission warranty requirements drove the widespread adoption of weathersealed electrical connectors in cars, and I'm sure it cost ten bucks a vehicle to do that but the reliability improvement over the lifespan of the vehicle from that one change was huge.

Posted by: JEM at April 26, 2014 01:40 PM (Xk+og)

170 @168 - here's the funny thing: VWs of the day were every bit as maintenance-intensive as the Brit hardware, and every bit as flaky. The Beetle motor didn't have an oil filter, and it needed valve adjustments that could only be done in the missionary position, with the owner as the female. Beetle ownership (been there, done that, occasionally fantasize about another one) was pure Stockholm Syndrome, it abused the crap out of you in various ways but you loved it anyway. For some reason the pool of victims prepared to submit to similar treatment from pre-oxidized British hardware was rather smaller. When I was growing up we had neighbors who, in retrospect, had some kind of a midlife crisis; in the space of a week they sold off both their big Plymouths and ended up in a pair of MGs - a roadster and an MGB GT. I don't know why, I never developed any fondness for the roadster but I sometimes think about a GT. With a real engine, mind you.

Posted by: JEM at April 26, 2014 01:47 PM (Xk+og)

171 The Barber Vintage Motorsports Museum in Birmingham, Alabama certainly compares to that one in Stuttgart - it has the largest motorcycle collection in the world and hundreds of vintage race cars as well. You can even take lessons and drive a real Indy car there at the track if you want. They also have movie classic cars and bikes too, like Steve McQueen's bike from The Great Escape.

Posted by: Tidemonster at April 26, 2014 02:57 PM (ZNiGF)

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