Ace of Spades HQ

February 22, 2014

Some Evidence Towards the Solution of "True Detective," and My Theory of the Crime
— Ace

I've been hashing this out in emails with friends. I have a good theory, I think, but I think TV's Andy Levy found undeniably great evidence, which he shared on Twitter.

I don't know if you can figure out everything from his clue, but I think you'll agree that the below is Definitely Something.

If you don't want anything spoiled, don't read any of the below post. Andy's clue is too good to not be a genuine clue, and I think my theory is right too. There was a weird picture in the first murdered girl's mom's house. Bizarre, actually:

Bizarre. And five guys.

When Woody Harrelson's daughter arranged her doll in that horrible way, it was also five guys.

Five guys again, gathered around a victim.

Look at what Cohle made with his cut-up beer cans: Five guys again. No victim here, but perhaps Cohle is hoping to find them before they find their next victim. (Note that one "doll" is seen here on its back, but he later stands this up with the others.)

He also notes that the Matthew McConnahey character's name -- the odd name "Rustin Cohle" -- is an anagram for "Coils Hunter." The "coils" being the odd spiral symbol the cult tattoos its victims with.

Now here's my theory. I'll put some white space between this sentence and the theory; scroll down a bunch to see it.

This is not a murder cult, exactly.

It's a euthanasia cult.

I say that because the entire theme of the show is Cohle's dark philosophy of existence being hellish, and death being an escape. The solution to the deaths will therefore echo that.

The murders will not be murders-- murder is an external threat, but that's not what Cohle has been selling all season. He's been selling a philosophical menace-- the menace of existence itself.

So the "victims" come to the cult for "release."

Here's further evidence of this: Cohle says that consciousness is an evolutionary mistake. It separates man from nature. Consciousness, he says, is the source of our suffering.

He also says the way the dead bodies were staged is an important symbology -- the symbology has meaning to the one who posed the bodies.

And what is that symbology?

In death, the human bodies were turned into animals, with antlers-- they had been stripped of their sorrow-making consciousness, returned to a natural state of stupidity.

I think "Carcossa" refers to this state, this state of non-consciousness. That is what Carcossa is in this telling -- the plane of non-consciousness.

Further adding to my return-humans-to-nature proof is the fact that the three bodies have been found, so far:

1. bent over a tree, on the haunches, like a rabbit -- like an animal of the land

2. floating in the river -- like a fish in the water

3. suspended in the air between trees -- like a bird in the sky

Meanwhile, the painting found in the abandoned church wall also featured a hermaphrodite -- again with antlers. Returned to a state of non-consciousness.

I think the mixture of meth and LSD is self-induced. I think the purpose of it is to destroy the mind -- perhaps to put the victim into a coma (like Cohle's daughter was in).

And then the body is killed, it slips tranquilly from the non-consciousness of coma into the "deeper dark" of death.

So who are the five men in this cult? The best guess would be 1, Reverend Tuttle (who died), 2, Governor Tuttle, 3, the unnamed sheriff who permits the whorehouse at Spanish Lake to operate, 4, possibly the black pastor shown in episode 1 (Levy says this actor is too big for a bit role, and must have a more prominent role later), and 5, possibly the white preacher at the revival tent or Woody Harrelson's father in law.

Why did they form the cult? I think it will be revealed they all had a close connection to a child who died, and all went crazy with grief. Similar to Cohle's grief, but unlike him, they decided to do something about it. (Changed: I thought they'd be connected to Marie, the missing girl, but Comment 164 explains why I no longer think she's "missing.")

One last thing: the female victims, so far, are probably victims of molestation by family members or other trusted person. It might be this pain that drives them to the cult's horrible form of release.

Point is, the show is telegraphing pretty hard, I think, that Woody Harrelson's daughter was molested (possibly by him, but more likely by his father-in-law).

Ergo, she will likely run away from home and fall into the evil suicidal embrace of the cult, and seek her own ticket to Carcosa. The last episode will probably involve an attempt to save her from this self-chosen fate.

Posted by: Ace at 12:50 PM | Comments (288)
Post contains 837 words, total size 5 kb.

1 First, although I was commenting on the Mark Steyn piece, which has disappeared.

Posted by: Jen at February 22, 2014 12:53 PM (CKkBt)

2 As I said before: "So, back in your burrows, Commies!"

Posted by: DM at February 22, 2014 12:54 PM (Ztudx)

3 You've ruined it for me, thanks a lot.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 22, 2014 12:55 PM (hn70M)

4 There appears to be a righteous enstompening, leaving no witnesses.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 12:55 PM (RlEsx)

5 Clearly, global warming-induced white-out.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 22, 2014 12:56 PM (aDwsi)

6 Enstompening and disappearance. Wow.

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 12:56 PM (4+AaH)

7 Is this a TV thing or a Netflix thing or a premium cable thing?

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 12:56 PM (ZshNr)

8 iPad hates white font.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 12:57 PM (RlEsx)

9 It's been clobbered by a hockey stick.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 22, 2014 12:57 PM (kVfSG)

10 Yes, Jen! That just happened to me as well. Maybe it is what the memory hole event horizon looks like..

Posted by: DM at February 22, 2014 12:57 PM (Ztudx)

11 Thanks Ace. I've figured it out thanks to you. It the detective's curse. The answer is under your nose. Five Guys? What if the Five Guys is actually a place. That's right, Five Guys Burger place is a Louisiana murder cult. Bam, I'm done. Booyah Kashah!

Posted by: Shtetl G at February 22, 2014 12:58 PM (lqobq)

12
See what happens when you try and screw around with me. I disappeared the Stein thread, and with an degree of certainty, Stein will be set afire by an enraged sun.

Posted by: Dr. Michael Mann at February 22, 2014 12:58 PM (nQjHM)

I think you could be right about Woody's FIL, Ace.

Nice theory, too.

Could very well be right.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 12:58 PM (DEUoo)

14 Tami's futile first on the Steyn saddens.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (RlEsx)

15 >>>Is this a TV thing or a Netflix thing or a premium cable thing? hbo alas. I wouldn't mention HBO except that I think I can get hits off this post, as speculating about the solution is a big internet thing now. So I will do some mild mentioning of an HBO show in order to get hits.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (/FnUH)

16 iPad hates white font. Copy it, paste it into notes app. Now if I could just make it easier to do brackets.

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (4+AaH)

17 I don't know how it is that I miss this Pop Culture Things when they hit, but I so often do. Downton Abbey? Totally missed it when it started and now I don't know how to catch up. Sherlock? Same thing. And now this True Detective thing just hit my radar via twitter last week. Is it too late to catch on to this latest thing?

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (zDsvJ)

18 12 See what happens when you try and screw around with me. I disappeared the Stein thread, and with an degree of certainty, Stein will be set afire by an enraged sun. Posted by: Dr. Michael Mann at February 22, 2014 04:58 PM (nQjHM)
You, sir are a Mongoloid subwoofer.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (kVfSG)

19 Cripes, Ace. Deep stuff man.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 22, 2014 12:59 PM (aDwsi)

20 Oh, I see! It's on HBO. That 'splains why I missed it!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (zDsvJ)

21 So this is a crime perpetrated by a conspiracy of McDonald's and Burger King to eliminate the competition from upstarts like 5 Guys hamburgers right? Next season you'll keep seeing Jack-in-the-Boxes.

Posted by: buzzion at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (LI48c)

22 I think there was just a great disturbance in the Force!

Posted by: Old Dog at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (tQYJH)

23 14 Tami's futile first on the Steyn saddens.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 04:59 PM (RlEsx)

I know, right? I was robbed.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (bCEmE)

24 Why did you just erase Andy's thread?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (xrX4n)

25 iPad hates white font. Posted by: Mr. Dave ------------------ Raaaacist! No, wait...., I have that backwards..., or something.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 22, 2014 01:00 PM (aDwsi)

26 Airport tower: "commercial traffic do you want to report a UFO?" Commercial traffic: lengthy silence. "No."

Posted by: DM at February 22, 2014 01:01 PM (Ztudx)

27 I don't get HBO or any of that tier. So many freaking channels nowadays, no need to pad an already grotesque bill. The only real downside is missing the Original Productions, but I just live a year behind everyone else on those shows.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 01:01 PM (ZshNr)

28
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 22, 2014 04:59 PM (kVfSG)

You sir are a sub-human mongrel.

Posted by: Dr. Michael Mann at February 22, 2014 01:01 PM (nQjHM)

29 Why is this the first we're hearing that you're a True Detective watcher? I thought we were tight, brah..

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 01:02 PM (kWewi)

30 24 Why did you just erase Andy's thread?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at February 22, 2014 05:00 PM (xrX4n)

Cause ace get tops billing and Andy's thread can go up later.

Posted by: buzzion at February 22, 2014 01:02 PM (LI48c)

17...Is it too late to catch on to this latest thing?

It's still fairly new...5 episodes so far.

I think.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:02 PM (DEUoo)

32 I wouldn't mention HBO except that I think I can get hits off this post, as speculating about the solution is a big internet thing now. -- It sure as shit is. All over my twitter TL for the past couple of days.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:02 PM (zDsvJ)

33 Cult still hasn't gotten my mortal coil.

Posted by: Abe Vigoda at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (UIxS+)

34 I think you're on the right track, but I think Harrelson's character is one of the killers/cultists. If they move in the direction of the father in law, that will be an obvious feint.

I also think the criminal, Reggie Ladue was part of the cult, which is why Woody had to shoot him right then and there.

So either Woody is one of the cultists, or he is something of a fellow traveler.

So if you need 5, take Reggie, Woody, the reverend, one or more of the religious pastors, and perhaps another cop, like the one Cohle slapped.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (BeSEI)

35 So I will do some mild mentioning of an HBO show in order to get hits. You should add an update like "Shakira's bikini body!" Or something.

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (4+AaH)

36 >>>Is it too late to catch on to this latest thing? i hate mentioning HBO in a good light, but it's a really good show. It's extremely DARK. It is Lovecraftian. It explicitly mentions the King in Yellow, which is the horror book from which Lovecraft swiped his own Necronomicon mythos. When I say dark, I mean the main character is an "anti-natalist," which means he believes the human race should self-extinguish, to end its suffering, to end the unending process of death. (Obviously he's an atheist.) He seems to have gotten to this bleak state due to the death of his daughter. Despite the darkness (and it's plenty dark, bleakest thing ever), it's a really good show, just very matter-of-fact about the horrors all around us, from murderers to molestation, to death, to people who are just destroyed by tragedy or disease. It's a good show, but I would not break embargo and recommend it except for the fact that everyone links theories about it, and mine is pretty good. You can still catch up on it if you have hbo. if you don't, they'll release the DVDs at some point. But it is really dark.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (/FnUH)

37 Or at least lace wigs.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (zDsvJ)

38 Never heard of this show before. So with True Detective in the title and the first link to some painting on a wall. I was expecting the London Boys to show up in the white font.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (TI3xG)

39
Old Abe is still amazing, and get it up regularly.

Posted by: Betty White at February 22, 2014 01:03 PM (nQjHM)

40 Wow....you have HBO?

Posted by: TheJane at February 22, 2014 01:04 PM (LSldj)

41 >>>I think you're on the right track, but I think Harrelson's character is one of the killers/cultists. yeah i've considered that. he is blond (King in Yellow). but I don't buy it. He is not some kind of mastermind. I wouldn't buy a late revelation that he IS an evil mastermind.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:04 PM (/FnUH)

42 >>>Wow....you have HBO? i have friends who have hbo!

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:05 PM (/FnUH)

43 I dropped Commie loving HBO a couple of years ago.

Posted by: Old Dog at February 22, 2014 01:05 PM (tQYJH)

44 Dark? Does it have a laugh track? Cause I can act like I get the jokes if there's a laugh track.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 01:06 PM (RlEsx)

45 Thanks for spoiling a show I was about to start watching, asshole.

(I've got nobody to blame but myself.)

Posted by: Jeff B. at February 22, 2014 01:06 PM (1EIWf)

Well, there are boobies and blowjobs...so, it makes sense that this series would get a following.

Oh, and murder of young womyns.

So...boobies, blowjobs and dead girls.

The trifecta of a hit, these days.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (DEUoo)

47
I'm surfing around looking for a few hot chicks to snort with and stuff. Anyone home?

Posted by: Charlie Sheen at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (nQjHM)

48 When I say dark, I mean the main character is an "anti-natalist," which means he believes the human race should self-extinguish, to end its suffering, to end the unending process of death. Al Gore is in this show?

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (4+AaH)

49 Suffering is a base emotional state. Base emotional states are the absence of consciousness. Later.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (spmY9)

50 I do not read posts, therefore nothing was spoiled for me.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (kWewi)

51 >>it's a really good show. It's extremely DARK. It is Lovecraftian. Sounds like it's up the Mister's alley. OTOH, I kinda try to keep him away from such things. Real life is tough enough! >>When I say dark, I mean the main character >> is an "anti-natalist," which means he believes the human race should >>self-extinguish So a Democrat, then. ;-)

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:07 PM (zDsvJ)

52 Y-Not, Downton Abbey and Sherlock are both free on Amazon Prime video streaming, if you have Prime.

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 22, 2014 01:09 PM (GrtrJ)

53 >>>So...boobies, blowjobs and dead girls.
The trifecta of a hit, these days.
Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 05:07 PM (DEUoo)

Oh, that does sound good.

Posted by: Zombie Ted Kennedy at February 22, 2014 01:09 PM (UIxS+)

54 So best case scenario this thread spoils a show I intended to watch? Good thing I can't do white text on my stupid phone.

Posted by: Beagle at February 22, 2014 01:09 PM (sOtz/)

55 >>So...boobies, blowjobs and dead girls. Might be inspiration for WeirdDave's next gardening thread installment!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:09 PM (zDsvJ)

56 41 -

Oh, I think he is being set up to be very bright! But not the mastermind, more like the muscle. That there are characters who are calling him "King," if indeed they are, and we have no reason be believe he's it, that could very well be additional reason to believe they're going to make multiple feints at us.

For instance, right now I think we're expected to believe the big blow-up between the two detectives will revolve around Woody's wife. I am almost certain that's a feint.

We'll see.

Btw, for those who remember, this to me has a real "Twin Peaks" vibe to it, without the dark humor aspect of it. No humor here.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:10 PM (BeSEI)

57 Perhaps some day we can discuss "well-produced crap" such as SHERLOCK and Game Of Thrones. Next time you watch Sherlock, ask yourself if this just crap with a very high production value.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 01:10 PM (kWewi)

58 46 Well, there are boobies and blowjobs...so, it makes sense that this series would get a following.

Oh, and murder of young womyns.

So...boobies, blowjobs and dead girls.
The trifecta of a hit, these days.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 05:07 PM (DEUoo)

Does it have lots of floppy wiener?

Soft wiener, not erect, nice and soft. Wiener Party Floppy Wiener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mmcu-09SHY

Don't worry the dragons are coming.

Posted by: George R. R. Martin at February 22, 2014 01:11 PM (LI48c)

59 It wasn't me! I was too busy perving on your kids.

Posted by: the burger king at February 22, 2014 01:11 PM (14um2)

60 Downton Abbey and Sherlock are both free on Amazon Prime video streaming, if you have Prime. -- YOu know, I think we do have that Prime thingy, so I'll definitely look into it. Not so much Downton but Sherlock. Thanks!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:12 PM (zDsvJ)

61 Thanks, Old Dog. So Jen was typing a comment on Mark Steyn countersuing Dr. Michael Mann as I did and went to post it to have the rollover spoiler go up with the Steyn/Mann post evaporate. That's what "back in you burrow, Commies" was supposed to post. "Enstompening," what a pleasing, lyrical word. Thanks, everyone! Not a dry eye in the house, and no I don't have a newsletter.

Posted by: DM at February 22, 2014 01:12 PM (Ztudx)

62 Interesting theory. If you're right, and it is a conspiracy and I believe you're right, why would McConnahey's character buy into the lone killer theory? Are his higher-ups about to close the investigation on him? I don't see McConnahey, considering he lost a child, going quietly into that goode night, do you? As to who killed the girls, how could any reverend/preacher be involved when murder is a sin?

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 22, 2014 01:12 PM (hn70M)

63 ......just very matter-of-fact about the horrors all around us, from murderers to molestation, to death, to people who are just destroyed by tragedy or disease.

=====

So, like the evening news?

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 01:13 PM (bCEmE)

64 Ace has been huffing again...

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 22, 2014 01:13 PM (6Nj7A)

65 When Woody Harrelson's daughter arranged her doll in that horrible way, it was also five guys.
She was asking for it. Have you seen the accessories she comes with?

Posted by: ken at February 22, 2014 01:13 PM (14um2)

66 It wasn't me either, trying to set up Five Guys.

I just steal shit. I ain't ever killed nobody.

Posted by: The Hamburlger at February 22, 2014 01:13 PM (UIxS+)

67 Oh, and I think we're given free reign to post spoilers here in the comments, aren't we? If some of you haven't watched the show, don't read my comments. Unless and until Ace says to cease and desist, I'm going to assume I can say anything I choose about what's happened already on the show.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:13 PM (BeSEI)

68 I couldn't get through episode one. I thought it was boring but more importantly, I'm tired of the southern white hillbilly schtick. You ever noticed that in every movie about the death penalty or prison even when it is in the north there is always that stupid twangy music? Sheesh!

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 22, 2014 01:15 PM (6Nj7A)

69 Shit. I hope I have an alibi.

Posted by: zombie margret sanger at February 22, 2014 01:15 PM (14um2)

Y-not...

Word of warning...it is Dark, as Ace says.

Like, depressingly dark.

I gave up on it after the 2nd episode, because it was so dark and depressing...with no light spots to keep me going.

I mean, there is enough depressing shit going on these days...I didn't need to be watching something that dark and depressing, as entertainment.

But now that I know Ace is watching it...and some other Morons have mentioned it too...I may catch up on it using the episodes loaded into OnDemand.

If I can talk about it with others, in a clinical way...then it won't be so depressing to watch it.

Mr. wheatie won't watch it with me.

He hates shit like this.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:16 PM (DEUoo)

71 We've exonerated all five guys.

Posted by: Penn State at February 22, 2014 01:16 PM (14um2)

72 >>> Interesting theory. If you're right, and it is a conspiracy and I believe you're right, why would McConnahey's character buy into the lone killer theory? he doesn't any longer. he's been doing his investigation since the King in Yellow interrogation. He arranged the beer-can dolls as a hint to show his interrogators that it's a cult of five, or perhaps now four.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:17 PM (/FnUH)

73 So how much range does Woody Harrelson have as an actor? It seems like eons since his days on Cheers (get off my lawn) and I know he's in a lot of stuff. Most of it seems to be very dark and/or violent. I don't go to many movies, especially those types of movies, so I don't have a feel for how talented he is.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:17 PM (zDsvJ)

74 62 -

I think it's very interesting that they sorta fast-forwarded immediately after the "solving" of the case. We jumped from 1995 to... what, 2002? All we know about what Cohle was doing during that time is he became the go-to guy for interrogations.

I think we have to assume he didn't have his "aha!" moment until he got in the cage with the guy who claimed to have info on the real killers... and then promptly committed suicide in his cell.

I would hope we're going to get better insight into how he went from being the mopey short-haired guy to the seemingly laid back long-haired hippie.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:19 PM (BeSEI)

75 A Clue you say? It was Col Mustard in the Conservatory with the rope.

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 01:19 PM (4+AaH)

76 I gave up on it after the 2nd episode, because it was so dark and depressing...with no light spots to keep me going. -- Yeah, it doesn't sound like my cup of tea. Mr Y-not used to watch some sci fi series that I gather had a darker undertone to it (though perhaps not this bad) -- might've been Farscape. Now he has a much higher tolerance for this sort of thing than I do, but eventually he realized it was bringing him down.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:20 PM (zDsvJ)

77 For all his commie preening, Woody Harelson lives in one of the mose expensive and exclusive gated areas of LA. He also owns property in HA.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 22, 2014 01:20 PM (6Nj7A)

78 HI = Hawaii.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 22, 2014 01:21 PM (6Nj7A)

62...As to who killed the girls, how could any reverend/preacher be involved when murder is a sin?

That's right up HBO's alley...demonizing Christianity.

They love to do that.

So yeah, in the mind of liberal HBO, they could easily see how a fanatic fundamentalist would murder people because they are sinners.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:21 PM (DEUoo)

80 Why you should watch True Detective, link in nic, NSFW.

Posted by: Alexandra Deddario at February 22, 2014 01:21 PM (Aif/5)

81 >>>I couldn't get through episode one. I thought it was boring but more importantly, I'm tired of the southern white hillbilly schtick. i honestly don't know what you're talking about. People said the same thing about Justified, apparently overlooking the fact that the heroes are smart and attractive and heroic. It's like people want southern shithead loser lowlife *criminals* to be all educated and clever too, or else the show is deemed "anti-southern" or something. I think people really are too thin-skinned about this. When the two heroes are a Louisianan and a Texan, and both are smart (and one's actually a genius on a near-Holmes level), I just don't know where this "biased against hillbillies" thing comes in, except for people determined to see that in it. Unless you're getting down to the "rural southern vs. suburban southern" thing. But even there, I don't know what it would take to overcome suspicions and animosity. If the villains are rich, then the show is anti-southern rich people. If the criminals are poor, then the show is anti-southern poor people. Furthermore, I don't know what culture either of the heroes come from. Neither has been flagged as coming from anywhere, in particular, except for the states of LA and TX. Harrelson, in particular, sounds rural-born. Shows about crime are going to have local villains and if it's in Kentucky, they will be Kentucky fuckheaded criminals, and if it's in Lousiana and Texas, they will be Lousianan and Texan fuckheaded criminals.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:22 PM (/FnUH)

82 And anyone who is interested in the show and doesn't have HBO, you can find episodes to stream here (have a good ad blocker and pop up blocker on your computer to keep the crap to a minimum): http://www.primewire.ag/tv-2743703-True-Detective

Posted by: DangerGirl at February 22, 2014 01:22 PM (GrtrJ)

83 Posted by: ace

But wasn't it years later that McConnahey left the force? Like 9 years or so the original investigation? And all the time after he left the force he's been showing up to crime scenes, checking them out. He's a damn smart detective so I don't see him coming to the revelation that it's a conspiracy only years later after he left the force. Something is about to happen, I think, with respect to shutting the investigation down.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 22, 2014 01:22 PM (hn70M)

84 @80 Fake, but accurate.

Posted by: blaster at February 22, 2014 01:22 PM (4+AaH)

85 73 -

No range, really. Other than changes in the tone of the roles he plays, he's always basically playing Woody Harrelson.

I absolutely love the movie, Zombieland, but you could easily be forgiven if you just assumed he was playing Woody from Cheers, after the zombie apocalypse.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:23 PM (BeSEI)

86 Can Ace go back to writing about Lena Dunham's 'Girls' now?

Posted by: --- at February 22, 2014 01:24 PM (MMC8r)

87 I "work" most nights, so I'm not worried about alibis.

Posted by: wendy at February 22, 2014 01:24 PM (14um2)

88 so wait, woody allen molested his daughter AND wood harrelson molested his daughter too? huh, something about the name woody. yeesh.

Posted by: yankeefifth at February 22, 2014 01:24 PM (rDidD)

89 >>I absolutely love the movie, Zombieland That one piqued my interest.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:24 PM (zDsvJ)

90 80 -

Yep, the two dames who have been Woody's love interests are both smoking hot. They describe the girlfriend as a younger version of the wife... maybe I'm showing my age, but I prefer the wife.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:26 PM (BeSEI)

91 so wait, woody allen molested his daughter AND wood harrelson molested his daughter too? huh, something about the name woody. No comment.

Posted by: Woody Hayes, Woody Guthrie, and Woody Woodpecker at February 22, 2014 01:27 PM (MMC8r)

92 >>>But wasn't it years later that McConnahey left the force? Like 9 years or so the original investigation? And all the time after he left the force he's been showing up to crime scenes, checking them out. He's a damn smart detective so I don't see him coming to the revelation that it's a conspiracy only years later after he left the force. why not? he never got to interview Ledoux due to the incident of the shooting. Eh, you're assuming he's so smart he knows everything from the start. I don't assume that. I assume he was working the case, making good progress, but did not have a complete understanding of it, or else he would have acted upon that understanding earlier. It's only after the King in Yellow interrogation he goes off on his rogue theory, and sees much more to the crimes.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:27 PM (/FnUH)

93 88 -

Hey, don't look at me, partner!

Posted by: Woody from Toy Story at February 22, 2014 01:28 PM (BeSEI)

94 He also owns property in HA.

--------------

Woody Harelson owns Hot Air? This explains so much.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 22, 2014 01:29 PM (o9Rp5)

95 but I prefer the wife.

Then you would probably like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

Posted by: Adam at February 22, 2014 01:30 PM (Aif/5)

96 I'm re-watching the first episode now!

Posted by: concrete girl at February 22, 2014 01:30 PM (LhAqq)

97 92 -

The modern detectives make reference to Cohle driving the direction of the investigation, and set it up like he's the one they're suspecting.

Again, this could very well be a feint. Could be these new guys are onto Woody, and are seeing if he bites on that one. He doesn't. Which is another reason I think Woody is supposed to be smarter than he lets on.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 01:31 PM (BeSEI)

98 I like Woody Harrelson in 2012, and in Hunger Games.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:31 PM (DEUoo)

99 Putting together the mystery pieces is sort of beneath me. It bores me. I am still looking for a real challenge. A challenge like watching all seasons of 24 back to back! See you later!

Posted by: Barack Obama at February 22, 2014 01:32 PM (E8IHS)

100 It's only after the King in Yellow interrogation he goes off on his rogue theory, and sees much more to the crimes.

Posted by: ace

The murders looked cultish from the start though and he's a brilliant detective, so I'm guess I need to see where he takes the investigation, or if it's closed by higher-ups. It's a damn entertaining show.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 22, 2014 01:32 PM (hn70M)

101 98...liked

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:32 PM (DEUoo)

102 I'm normally pretty hip and with it, but I haven't a fucking clue about what Ace is on about here. None. I feel like the radio morning show guy when they have the Geek squad dude on as a guest helping people fix their PC.

Posted by: DanInMN at February 22, 2014 01:33 PM (Z0Wdv)

103 No comment. Posted by: Woody Hayes, Woody Guthrie, and Woody Woodpecker -- ha-ha ha HA ha!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:33 PM (zDsvJ)

104 Brian Dennehy is great in True Detective as the rolling end-credits.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 01:33 PM (kWewi)

105 The Americans is back on Wed.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 22, 2014 01:34 PM (6Nj7A)

106
Is this about a TV show?
I have a TV!
What channel?

It will take me a while to figure it out though, the numbers wore off the dial so I can't tell which channel I'm on. Unless it's really late and I get Johnny Carson, then I know I'm on channel 4.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at February 22, 2014 01:34 PM (pgQxn)

107

...i have friends who have hbo!...

lucky bum!

Posted by: concrete girl at February 22, 2014 01:34 PM (LhAqq)

108 The Vikings are back on Tues.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:35 PM (DEUoo)

109 "Downton Abbey and Sherlock are both free on Amazon Prime video streaming, if you have Prime."

If anyone here has Amazon Prime, I beg of you go vote for "Bosch" for their original programming this season. I fear people are going with "The After" which is really bad, Tommy Wiseau "The Room" bad.

Posted by: lowandslow at February 22, 2014 01:35 PM (IV4od)

110 >>108 The Vikings are back on Tues. I tried watching that, but it was too rape-y for me. I'm a delicate flower when it comes to things like this.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:37 PM (zDsvJ)

111 >>>The murders looked cultish from the start though and he's a brilliant detective, so I'm guess I need to see where he takes the investigation well the murders looked *ritual,* which is something a single serial killer could do. Given this is a realistic show (or pretends to be), why would a cop spring to an unrealistic theory -- a cult -- so early? 99% of all serial killings are perpetrated by single or tandem killers (and it's something like 10-1 in favor of the singletons). The number of cult/group killings is pretty small. I can only think of the Manson Family off the top of my head. I just don't think it's the kind of world where the cops would immediately think "aha, a grand satanic cult conspiracy" without significant evidence for that.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:37 PM (/FnUH)

112 >>>>well the murders looked *ritual,* which is something a single serial killer could do. Given this is a realistic show (or pretends to be), why would a cop spring to an unrealistic theory -- a cult -- so early? Does he have Italian heritage?

Posted by: Buzzion at February 22, 2014 01:38 PM (LI48c)

113 My wife won't use (abuse) her dot edu email address to get a few months of free Amazon Prime. It's for students and she's a Prof., but all she'd have to do is check some boxes about her "Major" and her "Goals" to pass as a student. How very noble, but I still want a free couple moths before I sign up.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 01:39 PM (ZshNr)

114 I'd accept butterflies.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 01:39 PM (ZshNr)

115 108 The Vikings are back on Tues.

Posted by: wheatie at Februay 22, 2014 05:35 PM (DEUoo)

Tues? Thought it was Thursday?

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 01:40 PM (bCEmE)

116 No, it can't be a grand satanic cult conspiracy.
Anyone want some Skittles?

Posted by: a unicorn with a pentagram carved in its forehead at February 22, 2014 01:40 PM (14um2)

117

110 >>108 The Vikings are back on Tues.

------------

I tried watching that, but it was too rape-y for me.

I'm a delicate flower when it comes to things like this.

------------

I know what you mean, Y-not.

Yeah...it's pretty brutal.

But it's 'historical accuracy' and all...which was before we progressed as a species and became all civilized an' shit.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:41 PM (DEUoo)

118 >>>I mean, there is enough depressing shit going on these days...I didn't need to be watching something that dark and depressing, as entertainment. I personally assume that Cohle will have some kind of positive, life-affirming epiphany in the last episode, but I'm not sure of that.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:41 PM (/FnUH)

119 But it's 'historical accuracy' and all...which was before we progressed as a species and became all civilized an' shit. --- Yeah. I appreciated that. I just can't take it. Certain types of things, sick personal abusive things, upset me, even in a work of fiction. I'm a pussy. Mrrow.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:41 PM (zDsvJ)

120 The Vikings are back on Tues.
There's already enough Saxon violence on TV without that crap.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at February 22, 2014 01:42 PM (14um2)

121 Any connection to the Final Five Cylons?

Posted by: eman at February 22, 2014 01:43 PM (AO9UG)

122 The charge that Richard Nixon attempted to misuse the IRS for political purposes made its way into the second of the three articles of impeachment against him. Nixon Â“endeavouredÂ” to misuse the IRS, in the fancy British spelling of the word used in article 2. NixonÂ’s efforts to misuse the IRS were futile. They went nowhere. Nixon and his henchmen desired the IRS to Â“screwÂ” their political opponents, but their efforts were a pathetic failure.

Nixon henchman Jack Caulfield astutely complained that the IRS was a Â“monstrous bureaucracyÂ…dominated and controlled by Democrats.Â” As we have come to see, Caulfield was on to something. By contrast with NixonÂ’s failures to misuse the IRS, the IRS have very effectively Â“screwedÂ” ObamaÂ’s political opponents, and we have yet to learn what the president knew and when he knew it.

Posted by: Donald Segretti at February 22, 2014 01:43 PM (e8kgV)

123 It's too bad about the Vikings thing, too, as the Mister is really into all sorts of history and mythology things, so it'd have been fun to watch it with him.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:43 PM (zDsvJ)

124 I agree with tv's andy levy about the first episodes pastor...he played a great character on the wire. maybe it's wish-casting on my part but i hope he plays a larger role.

Posted by: concrete girl at February 22, 2014 01:44 PM (LhAqq)

125 OTOH, "Thor" was fun. That dude is pretty hawt.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:44 PM (zDsvJ)

126 There's already enough Saxon violence on TV without that crap. *light clap*

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 01:44 PM (kWewi)

127 Someday I'll binge view it, until then I'll have to avoid "reveals".

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 01:45 PM (ZshNr)

128 Ok. There's apparently some true crime show on tv that I've completely missed.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 22, 2014 01:45 PM (DmNpO)

129 Ace, I think you're theory has some merit, but the thing that I still am not quite sure about is how the King in Yellow really fits into the plot. Dora Lange's journal has direct quotes from the play in Chamber's book (Talking of lost Carcosa), but what I'm not sure about is whether the killers are using the stories as a form of seduction (the Chambers stories exist in the series' universe) or if this season is more an attempt to create a new chapter in the King in Yellow mythos, if that makes any sense. Also, when Reggie told Cohle that he was in Carcosa now sent shivers down my spine.

Posted by: CJA at February 22, 2014 01:45 PM (hx0X/)

130

118...I personally assume that Cohle will have some kind of positive, life-affirming epiphany in the last episode, but I'm not sure of that.

---------

I hope you're right, Ace.

And there've been some clues, right?...That Cohle still has a glimmer of light burning within him somewhere.

Like I said upthread, now that I know you're watching it...I will catch up on the last episodes.

If I can talk about it, that will keep it from being so depressing for me.

Because I will be watching it on my own, alone.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:46 PM (DEUoo)

131 Aren't crimes usually attributable to the most simple motives and actions?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 22, 2014 01:47 PM (DmNpO)

132 >>>Dora Lange's journal has direct quotes from the play in Chamber's book (Talking of lost Carcosa), but what I'm not sure about is whether the killers are using the stories as a form of seduction (the Chambers stories exist in the series' universe) or if this season is more an attempt to create a new chapter in the King in Yellow mythos, if that makes any sense. it's my assumption the KIng in Yellow book does NOT exist in this universe, or else Rust would have googled it like fifteen years ago. It's my further assumption they're just taking the terminology and feel of creepy horror from the book, and will re-purpose them as well. So "The King in Yellow" will be revealed to be something like the longing for death, and Carcosa will be the blissful emptiness of non-existence. I don't expect the King or Carcosa to literally appear.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:48 PM (/FnUH)

133 I liked MWR's description of Thor looking "golden retriever puzzled" at Loki's perfidy.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 22, 2014 01:49 PM (RlEsx)

134

123 It's too bad about the Vikings thing, too, as the Mister is really into all sorts of history and mythology things, so it'd have been fun to watch it with him.

--------

He won't watch the Vikings with you, Y-not?

That's one that mr. wheatie will watch with me...but then, he looks kinda like a grizzled ole Viking himself.

Heh.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:49 PM (DEUoo)

135 >>>I agree with tv's andy levy about the first episodes pastor...he played a great character on the wire. maybe it's wish-casting on my part but i hope he plays a larger role. he also played a big supporting role in Person of Interest as the head of the criminal organization "HR."

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:49 PM (/FnUH)

136 I think Marie Fontenot is gonna end up being Beth, the young prostitute at the bunny ranch. The madame says to Woody "what do you know about what she's been through with her uncle?". Her uncle is probably Danny Fontenot, the guy with the stroke, and she ran away cause he was diddling her.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 01:49 PM (k8m83)

137 What's that huge sea of white after the post?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 01:50 PM (6bMeY)

138 But it is really dark. Like my soul.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2014 01:50 PM (KOGmz)

139 Ok, I checked. Vikings Season 2 starts Thursday, Fed. 27th. 10E/9C

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 01:51 PM (bCEmE)

140 >>>I think Marie Fontenot is gonna end up being Beth, the young prostitute at the bunny ranch. The madame says to Woody "what do you know about what she's been through with her uncle?". Her uncle is probably Danny Fontenot, the guy with the stroke, and she ran away cause he was diddling her. hmmm... well, that sounds good. But wait, does the chronlogy work out? The prostitute was like 16 and marie was like, what, 8, when she ran off? Had it been so long between the two timeframes?

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:51 PM (/FnUH)

141
It is hard for me to see Dora Lange as a willing victim. She seems to have had a pretty crappy life, but by the time she finds the "church", she has found a place to belong (ex-hubby convict even remarks that she wishes to become a nun). She wants to spread the word, not be the sacrifice. Many of the other victims are quite young, a little too young to go looking for assisted suicide.

This cult indoctrinates children at a young age, and they are made to witness some devious acts, but I don't think those include murders. Twig-traps are found behind a victim's home and at the abandoned school; Hart's daughter has clearly been influenced by this cult at a young age. Hart himself is a self-absorbed hypocrite, and wouldn't make a good bet to be the Yellow King.

My guess right now would be that there is no Yellow King directly; this is a cult that uses the King in Yellow to fixate on madness and death. Their tortures and staged deaths are the play, and Cohle in particular appears to be going mad after witnessing it. The Yellow King could simply be the witness who finally discards the "mask", or Cohle himself becomes the Yellow King when he finally snaps.

Posted by: FoxHunt at February 22, 2014 01:51 PM (lzEri)

142 He won't watch the Vikings with you, Y-not? That's one that mr. wheatie will watch with me...but then, he looks kinda like a grizzled ole Viking himself. -- We watched a few episodes together, but I was so bothered by the rapey stuff that I stopped watching and he did, too. We don't tend to watch a lot of original drama stuff on tv, at least not as first-run. We tend to use our tube.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:52 PM (zDsvJ)

143 I have been enjoying Longmire, though. And that'll be back, although I think they're making us wait until summer.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:52 PM (zDsvJ)

144 >>>It is hard for me to see Dora Lange as a willing victim. She seems to have had a pretty crappy life, but by the time she finds the "church", she has found a place to belong (ex-hubby convict even remarks that she wishes to become a nun). but what does the church teach? I don't assume it teaches conventional Christianity.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 01:53 PM (/FnUH)

145 Any Morons who would like to pursue True Detective without HBO go here. http://stream-tv.me/watch-true-detective-online/

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 01:53 PM (6bMeY)

146 Ugh. Use our tv for sports. I am so wiped out today.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:53 PM (zDsvJ)

147 The show really lost me when the cult started offing people by tossing them into the volcano.

Posted by: serious, you guys at February 22, 2014 01:53 PM (UIxS+)

148 I canÂ’t see the white font on either Mac or iPad. What did I miss?

Posted by: Carol at February 22, 2014 01:54 PM (z4WKX)

149 >>137 What's that huge sea of white after the post? If you highlight it there are words there. I think it's got things like ace's SSN and fetishes. I don't know, though.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:54 PM (zDsvJ)

150

139 Ok, I checked. Vikings Season 2 starts Thursday, Fed. 27th. 10E/9C

----------

Ah. ...Thanks, Tami.

Sorry I gave out wrong information.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 01:55 PM (DEUoo)

151 When you highlight the white it turns bluish and becomes readable.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 01:55 PM (6bMeY)

152 Carol Click-drag to "highlight" (select) on your Mac. You'll see the words. Or "copy" and paste into word and then change font to black.

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:56 PM (zDsvJ)

153 >>Sorry I gave out wrong information. Jump into the barrel, wheatie. With WeirdDave's dead bodies and my banana peels!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 01:57 PM (zDsvJ)

154 As a Saxon, I take that personally, andycanuck.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at February 22, 2014 01:57 PM (yE8uc)

155 Thank you Y-not. I highlighted it & canÂ’t read the white font. Ace are you trying to kill our eyes?

Posted by: Carol at February 22, 2014 01:57 PM (z4WKX)

156 I imagine you could copy it and paste it into a document file.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 01:57 PM (6bMeY)

157 I canÂ’t see the white font on either Mac or iPad. What did I miss? *** You can't click and drag over it?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 22, 2014 01:57 PM (DmNpO)

158 155 Thank you Y-not. I highlighted it & canÂ’t read the white font. Ace are you trying to kill our eyes? Posted by: Carol at February 22, 2014 05:57 PM (z4WKX) He put it in white font because it's a spoiler. That way people that follow the show and don't want to know the spoiler can't see it.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 01:58 PM (bCEmE)

159 It sounds like the place in this show needs to be nuked from orbit.

Posted by: eman at February 22, 2014 01:58 PM (AO9UG)

160 Ha? Have I drunk to much or not enough?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 22, 2014 01:58 PM (nzKvP)

161 111 -

It is also true that Cohle, in almost every sense, is an outsider here. He wouldn't go around accusing people, including big shots, of being part of a cult, even if he suspected it.

Again, this is why I stick with Woody as one of the bad guys. He shut down the investigation. Cohle was on the right track, obviously, and a bullet to the head of his best lead was a tactical move.

If it works, it now stops right here, as a lone (more or less), crazed killer with a weird worldview. Had Reggie lived long enough to have spotted and potentially implicated Woody, we'd have a different show on our hands.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 02:00 PM (BeSEI)

162 Sort of like those invisible ink pens that could reveal hidden messages in the box of cereal that we non Kaboomers had access to 30 years ago.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 02:00 PM (6bMeY)

163 Ace likes to burn retinas; it's his hobby.

Posted by: soothsayer at February 22, 2014 02:00 PM (kWewi)

164 Marie is supposed to be 10 when she runs away in 1990. Making her 15 when she's at the bunny ranch, and Marty is pissed cause she's clearly underaged. My guess is Marty will end up banging her in 2002, causing his divorce and major fight with Rust.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:03 PM (k8m83)

165

153...Jump into the barrel, wheatie. With WeirdDave's dead bodies and my banana peels!

----------

Ack!

So giving out wrong information is an embarrelling offense?

Eeesh.

I said I was sorry. Maybe I shoulda said...I'm really, really sorry.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:04 PM (DEUoo)

166 I need to find a pub or an Alamo Drafthouse or some other gathering-place for Game of Thrones 4. Which I hope doesn't suck. The show, I mean. Because the book it's based on was 80% ass.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 22, 2014 02:04 PM (rAeZm)

167 Are poeple assuming that the flashbacks are 100% accurate? If Woodie is the Yellow King he could be setting his partner to take the fall with some embellished "memories".

Its a good show. The scene in the PJs was awesome and done in one continues take. That is some pro technical shit.

Posted by: Shtetl G at February 22, 2014 02:04 PM (lqobq)

168 164- hm, that's probably right (though I don't know about marty banging her, but that could be right too). I'll adjust my theory.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:05 PM (/FnUH)

169 Also, you forgot to mention how the lawnmower man must play into this. Dora was seen at the revivals with a man who has a shiny jaw. The lawnmower man has got a Frank Beamer burn going on his face, and he's mowing at the school with all the stick figures.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:05 PM (k8m83)

170 166 Or this. http://stream-tv.me/watch-game-of-thrones-online-2/

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 02:05 PM (6bMeY)

171 Is it just my computer or do you all get the large blank space after the post? Barrel for ace?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 22, 2014 02:06 PM (0FSuD)

172 141 -

The two young kids at Reggie's place, one is dead. More likely than not, the boy was meant to die. The cult isn't interested in boys, just ways to indoctrinate young girls, and whatever it is she witnessed, it was part of the plan.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 02:06 PM (BeSEI)

173 Oh, now I get it.. How do it know?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 22, 2014 02:06 PM (0FSuD)

174 I take it this is a cable show, True Detective? Next question: who gives a frenchman's fuck? Now that that's out of the way, do you think Bates killed his wife's rapist on Downton Abbey? Or was it an accident?

Posted by: Semi-engaged scroller at February 22, 2014 02:07 PM (/cUUk)

175 171 Spoiler for a TV show. Highlight to reveal.

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 22, 2014 02:07 PM (6bMeY)

176 LOL wheatie!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 02:08 PM (zDsvJ)

177 I gotta go, but it's a nice treat to have ace here on a weekend. Have fun, morons!

Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 02:09 PM (zDsvJ)

178 Spoiler speculation: The most recent episode of True Detective had the older daughter acting out a in a horrible manner that could support the theory about Woody Harrelson or his father-in-law.

Posted by: Smilin' Jack at February 22, 2014 02:09 PM (Xzj0B)

179 spoiler alert She's Back! "Christine OÂ’Donnell: I was a victim of the IRS" By Christine OÂ’Donnell NY Post, February 22, 2014 | 1:46pm

Posted by: The King of Id at February 22, 2014 02:10 PM (MhA4j)

180 119 But it's 'historical accuracy' and all...which was before we progressed as a species and became all civilized an' shit. --- Yeah. I appreciated that. I just can't take it. Certain types of things, sick personal abusive things, upset me, even in a work of fiction. I'm a pussy. Mrrow. Posted by: Y-not at February 22, 2014 05:41 PM (zDsvJ) I do get that. The episode of the walking dead last week had one of those moments for me.

Posted by: Buzzion at February 22, 2014 02:10 PM (LI48c)

181 Bush lied to our Black President and this really bothers me a lot. Bush should be in jail. I mean come on who lies to a black guy because that is like lying to Jesus.................

Posted by: Dorcus Blimeline at February 22, 2014 02:11 PM (iB0Q2)

182 I could see that, actually.

Part of me hopes they go with an old school ABC murders solution and it's actually all about killing someone for money and they (it has to be multiple people involved) are killing the others to cover it up.

I will be very disappointed if Cohle or Hart turn out to be involved with the murders directly. That's just lazy.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at February 22, 2014 02:11 PM (Gk3SS)

183 >>> Spoiler speculation: The most recent episode of True Detective had the older daughter acting out a in a horrible manner that could support the theory about Woody Harrelson or his father-in-law. well yeah. There's a lot of this. She drew that naughty picture, Harrelson spoke of "inattentiveness" being the worst sin he committed against his daughter (not realizing). Then there's the spooky crime scene/rape doll posing thing she did. How she would have had that knowledge, I don't know, unless the F-i-L had pictures.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:11 PM (/FnUH)

184 >>>Part of me hopes they go with an old school ABC murders solution and it's actually all about killing someone for money and they (it has to be multiple people involved) are killing the others to cover it up. that's been done so many times now, I don't think anyone could pass it off as new.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:12 PM (/FnUH)

185

in the dark, in the cornfield at the beginning, the very beginning the figure shown appeared to be alone...next scene was the burning corn field in the daylight with the body of Dora.

...now that doesn't mean others weren't involved or at the scene but it led me to believe there was only one killer..we shall see.

Posted by: concrete girl at February 22, 2014 02:12 PM (LhAqq)

186 Thank you, Tami. I was watching It Happened One Night on TCM on demand. I started watching it last night & fell asleep. It was a very enjoyable movie. Fenelon Spoke & MPPPP told me on Friday morning's early morning thread that it was good & it is.

Posted by: Carol at February 22, 2014 02:13 PM (z4WKX)

187 The flashbacks we see are the objective truth. By seeing Rust&Marty mislead the 2 black detectives about how they tracked Ledoux and what went down at the meth shack, we know R&M are dedicated to getting the real killer, and we also understand why the black guys erroneously think Rust is their man.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:13 PM (k8m83)

188 Well,poor candidate or not she may well be correct about the IRS.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2014 02:14 PM (zqvg6)

189
>>> but what does the church teach? I don't assume it teaches conventional Christianity.

Two churches come up in the investigation; the traveling Theriot tent church and the Light of Way church that was blitzed by one of the hurricanes.

I'm not exactly sure what either pretends to be teaching, but there's something beneath the layer there that is indoctrinating children. Theriot himself seems to spout more metaphysical jargon than Cohle himself (even though Cohle dismisses his sermon competely) and even crosses himself backwards. The preacher from the black congregation states quite directly that the twig-traps have been something kids have been making for a few generations, for expressly catching "devils" (not THE devil, apparently - he's never mentioned.) There's some kind of voodoo or old religion that has been mixed in with the Christian churches there, the Yellow King cult is born out of that somehow, but I haven't a clue how, and I'm guessing nothing in this show will be tied up in a neat little bow.

Posted by: FoxHunt at February 22, 2014 02:14 PM (lzEri)

190 "i hate mentioning HBO in a good light, but it's a really good show. It's extremely DARK. It is Lovecraftian. It explicitly mentions the King in Yellow, which is the horror book from which Lovecraft swiped his own Necronomicon mythos." The King in Yellow, who is connected to the City of Carcosa, which is on the shore of Lake Hali, comes from Robert Chambers. Lovecraft "adopted" those into his mythos. Chambers actually got the names "Carcosa" and "Hali" from a short story by Ambrose Bierce. In the stories by Chambers, "The King in Yellow" is the name of a play. Those who read it or see it performed go insane, including various kind of homicidal mania. "Followers" of the King in Yellow rely on the "Yellow Sign", which is never fully described in the book. When the game company Chaosium published "The Call of Cthulu" RPG, they solicited a piece of artwork for it. You can find that image on Wikipedia, along with the note that according to the artist it was published upside down and backwards. I haven't watched the show so someone who has would have to compare the sign appearing in the show and that one. Overall, it rather sounds like the show is a straight up Robert Chambers-style story about The King in Yellow. Which . . . actually kinda makes me want to watch it now.

Posted by: Sam at February 22, 2014 02:16 PM (Tgd6y)

191 What about the lawnmower man? At the abandoned school.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2014 02:16 PM (KOGmz)

192

If it is a Cult...maybe it's not a 'euthanasia cult'.

Maybe it's a cult based on Hern, the god of nature.

The symbol of Antlers is pure Hern.

And these murders could be some sort of convoluted 'sacrifice' to Hern.

Those figures in the old painting, on horseback, are wearing those tall cone hats...which has an ancient Celtic vibe.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:16 PM (DEUoo)

193 Question: Do we know what is going on with Woody's career at the time he's being interviewed by the detectives? Does he still work for the state police? If so, he's got to be a big shot by now.

I'm still assuming somebody higher up is directing the cult, but no doubt he's benefited from being a member.

Unless they said, and he's like the head of security at some mall or something.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 22, 2014 02:17 PM (BeSEI)

194 >>>The King in Yellow, who is connected to the City of Carcosa, which is on the shore of Lake Hali, comes from Robert Chambers. Lovecraft "adopted" those into his mythos. Chambers actually got the names "Carcosa" and "Hali" from a short story by Ambrose Bierce. i know, it's one of my favorite books. I like the King in Yellow mythos better than Lovecraft's. I was just being brief.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:17 PM (/FnUH)

195 >>>If it is a Cult...maybe it's not a 'euthanasia cult'. Maybe it's a cult based on Hern, the god of nature. The symbol of Antlers is pure Hern. ... maybe but the story has prepared the way for it to be about the King in Yellow mythology by frequently mentioning it, and hasn't mentioned anything Celtic at all.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:18 PM (/FnUH)

196 My current theory is Lawnmower Man is the killer, and he's related/connected to the Tuttles, and they are using their political power to shut down any further investigation. That's why Rust drops off the grid, so he can try to solve the case on his own without police interference. He baited the cops into bringing him in for questioning so he could find out what they know. Now he knows they don't know squat.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:18 PM (k8m83)

197 >>>Question: Do we know what is going on with Woody's career at the time he's being interviewed by the detectives? Does he still work for the state police? If so, he's got to be a big shot by now. i don't know. I think he mentioned being private security now?

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:19 PM (/FnUH)

198 Question: Do we know what is going on with Woody's career at the time he's being interviewed by the detectives? Does he still work for the state police? -------- Pretty sure he said he's retired and running a private security firm.

Posted by: Adam at February 22, 2014 02:19 PM (Aif/5)

199 If anyone here has Amazon Prime, I beg of you go vote for "Bosch" for their original programming this season. I fear people are going with "The After" which is really bad, Tommy Wiseau "The Room" bad.

Posted by: lowandslow at February 22, 2014 05:35 PM (IV4od)

Oh good someone else who watched The After.

I hated it. Hated. It.   Hated it hated it hated it.

That was Chris Carter beyond phoning it in.   It's not so much that it's bad as it is that it was boring and obvious and as much as I love me some Adrian Pasdar, the second I saw him, I was all "Okay stock Pasdar character four".   I was right.

The only good bit was the very very end where it looked like they were going the demon route, which leads me to believe that this is supposed to be post-Rapture given the title, but other than that? Yawn.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at February 22, 2014 02:20 PM (Gk3SS)

200 >>>What about the lawnmower man? i don't see him as involved in a major way. He'll be back, but he could just be back as an Information Source.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 02:20 PM (/FnUH)

201

Okay...I looked it up.

'Herne' is the correct spelling.

Herne

(Also Known as Hu'Gadarn, Herne, The Horned One)

"Celtic God of Nature, The Wild Man of the Woods, Animal Instinct, The Hunt. Known to all Celts as the "Horned God ". God of nature, virility, fertility, animals, sex, reincarnation and shamanism. Known to the Druids as Hu Gadarn. God of the Underworld and Astral Planes. The Consort of the Great Goddess."

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:21 PM (DEUoo)

202 >>>What about the lawnmower man? i don't see him as involved in a major way. He'll be back, but he could just be back as an Information Source. I'm telling you, he's deeply involved. He's got a burn scar on his jaw, like the guy seen with Dora. I think he's the green eared spaghetti monster. He's probably tall; Rust couldn't tell cause he was sitting on the mower; and...he's got some yellow paint on his overalls!!!

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:22 PM (k8m83)

203 that's been done so many times now, I don't think anyone could pass it off as new.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 06:12 PM (/FnUH)

Oh I didn't say it was new, just that that's what I would like to see.

Actually, you know what would be new and interesting? To have the murders be exactly what they look like. Cult murders. The big what is it is then who is in the cult. As far as the why, it's a freaking cult. The why is incomprehensible to those outside it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at February 22, 2014 02:27 PM (Gk3SS)

204 Wait, the US Army says it's sucking up to the Chinks and we get a TV plot? I thought this was a "smart military blog"? http://tinyurl.com/llmuoe8

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 22, 2014 02:28 PM (0FSuD)

205 Ace - I think you are spot on with your theory, I am a huge fan and have poured through various sites that have listed many key parts (like Andy's 5 people and animal's) - but your whole story is both unique and most likely dead on. Hart's daughter from Episode 1-5 support said theory, with either a final death or savior via Kohle and Hart. I believe Kohle has been investigating the whole time (since 2002) - with Hart - but as a separate team. The only way the cops "think" they dont speak is from Kohle and Hart themselves, ala the meth lab "story" The Yellow King interview is the moment the higher ups squash both LaDue and the investigation, in 2002. It is that moment I believe Kohle knows its a cult of higher ups - and remember - he always thought the notion of a "satanic cult" was BS from Episode 1 and never trusted the Gov and his preacher brother who is now dead. Good work, I look forward to this Sun and the rest of the season

Posted by: Odie1941 at February 22, 2014 02:28 PM (iS2i7)

206 Damn it! Now I have to go watch all the episodes all over again so I can look for all this stuff.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 22, 2014 02:28 PM (IN7k+)

207 aren't Carcosa and Hali on Cottman IV?

Posted by: Fox2! at February 22, 2014 02:29 PM (cHwSy)

208

195...maybe but the story has prepared the way for it to be about the King in Yellow mythology by frequently mentioning it, and hasn't mentioned anything Celtic at all.

----------

I'm just tossing it out there, Ace.

I'm going to start at the beginning, and watch all 5 episodes tonight...looking for clues.

It was those tall cone-hats on the five guys on horseback, in that old painting, that gave me the Celtic vibe.

Celts wore those tall cone-hats in ceremonies.

And the antlers.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:31 PM (DEUoo)

209 Ace, you're putting far too much thought into this. You have to think like a screenwriter. In Hollywood, who is always the bad guy? A Rich Old White Man. So after a lot of huggermugger and Lovecraft shout-outs, the heroes will find that the murderer is . . . A Rich Old White Man. Very probably a fundamentalist Christian, because all those Jesus-freaks ever do is murder people. Naturally he will also be a sexist, racist, and homophobe. So just look through the cast and pick out the richest, whitest, most overtly Christian man, and there's your killer. I will bet money on this.

Posted by: Trimegistus at February 22, 2014 02:32 PM (9JYhg)

210 204 Ace doesn't appreciate that word.

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2014 02:33 PM (zqvg6)

211

204...I thought this was a "smart military blog"?

----------

You are free to skip over threads you have no interest in, you know.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:34 PM (DEUoo)

212 So just look through the cast and pick out the richest, whitest, most overtly Christian man, and there's your killer. I will bet money on this. I won't take that bet. Seems inevitable. And the hero will be an atheist/nihilist.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:36 PM (k8m83)

213 I did think Rust was spot-on about Obama when he said, "Transference of fear and self-loathing to an authoritarian vessel. It's catharsis. He absorbs their dread with his narrative. Because of this, he's effective at proportion to the amount of certainty he can project.".

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:39 PM (k8m83)

214

208....It was those tall cone-hats on the five guys on horseback, in that old painting, that gave me the Celtic vibe.

------

I should've said 'photograph' here...that old photograph with the guys on horseback, and the little blonde girl.

I mean, where other than in Celtic lore, do you see those tall cone-hats being worn?

I'm asking because I don't know.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:40 PM (DEUoo)

215 214 Klan rallies?

Posted by: steevy at February 22, 2014 02:40 PM (zqvg6)

216 Apropos of nothing, Jeremy Lin is averaging 13 points, 4.5 assists and 2.5 rebounds a game this season for Houston.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 22, 2014 02:41 PM (ZshNr)

217 >>>I mean, where other than in Celtic lore, do you see those tall cone-hats being worn?

My first thought was KKK. That and dunce caps.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 22, 2014 02:41 PM (IN7k+)

218 - 208....It was those tall cone-hats on the five guys on horseback, in that old painting, that gave me the Celtic vibe. - I believe that is an old Louisiana ceremony associated with Marti Gras

Posted by: Odie1941 at February 22, 2014 02:42 PM (iS2i7)

219 Not the KKK. They're called the Courir de Mardi Gras. Google it.

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 02:42 PM (k8m83)

220 Are you still around Ace? After some quick reading about this show I've already stumbled over a lot about the links to Lovecraft, Chambers, and other weird fiction authors. You might be correct about a euthanasia cult, but what is the cosmic horror? What will happen to take it further into the realms of dark terror and insanity? A cult itself is frightening but not necessarily cosmically horrific. Lovecraft had his cults but they were always linked to that creepy insanity that was the Old Ones. How will the show do this?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 22, 2014 02:45 PM (oFCZn)

221 Ace has friends?

who knew???

Posted by: redc1c4 at February 22, 2014 02:48 PM (q+fqH)

222 and what the hell is this post about anyway?

Posted by: redc1c4 at February 22, 2014 02:48 PM (q+fqH)

223 218... In South-West Louisiana, the cajuns still maintain some of the older traditions of Mardi Gras. The riders in the picture are known as "Courirs de Mardi Gras," and in the old days, they would ride around the parish soliciting food, such as chickens among other things, from everyone around so as to make a gumbo at the end of the day. The smaller communities in that area still practice this tradition to this day.

Posted by: CJA at February 22, 2014 02:51 PM (hx0X/)

224 Regarding the cone-shaped hats, I'm not sure where the Celtic tie-in would be, unless it's part of some New Age-ish neo-Celtic paganism tied in to the Victorian attempts to revive Celtic religion, which relied more on romantic notions regarding the Celts and influences from the OTO than actual history. There is a direct parallel between the types of hats displayed and those worn by devotees in the Holy Week ceremony in a number of Mediterranean countries - the most common is called the capirote. (You can see a cinematic depiction of these in Godfather III during the hit carried out on Joe Mantegna's character, which takes place during a street procession.) Also, Mardi Gras tends to feature the capuchon, which is a similar, if subdued, version of the capirote.

Posted by: A. Pendragon at February 22, 2014 02:51 PM (wJliR)

225

219 Not the KKK. They're called the Courir de Mardi Gras. Google it.

--------

I did. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 02:57 PM (DEUoo)

226

223...Posted by: CJA at February 22, 2014 06:51 PM (hx0X/)

and,

224...Posted by: A. Pendragon at February 22, 2014 06:51 PM (wJliR)

-------

Thanks for the info...I didn't know about all that.

Posted by: wheatie at February 22, 2014 03:00 PM (DEUoo)

227 I know a few fuckheaded criminals in Texas and Louisiana, and I find the show to be extremely realistic and authentic. Except Harrelson's accent, which ain't Louisiana 'tall.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2014 03:01 PM (OyZkL)

228

One of the stories in the King in Yellow references a Lethal Chamber erected in the town square.

Posted by: swagga at February 22, 2014 03:03 PM (6tYVV)

229

Thats all well and good Ace,,,,,but Alexandra Daddario!!! I don't have HBO so I havent' been watching it. I did recently get Amazon Prime so if it shows up on that I'll watch it.

Anyway, Alexandra Daddario!!! http://tinyurl.com/ll22ag4

Posted by: puddleglum at February 22, 2014 03:04 PM (8SsiG)

230 I know, she is super-hot, I have been in love with her for a while.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 03:13 PM (/FnUH)

231 >>>One of the stories in the King in Yellow references a Lethal Chamber erected in the town square. right!

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 03:13 PM (/FnUH)

232 Thanks for the info on Courirs de Mardi Gras! I wondered why Cohle didn't find that picture bizarre, chilling, and a *clue.* Well, duh: Because it's not out of the ordinary.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 03:18 PM (/FnUH)

233 Many of the other victims are quite young, a little too young to go looking for assisted suicide.
[cough; cough]

Posted by: belgian parliament at February 22, 2014 03:21 PM (14um2)

234
It is also true that Cohle, in almost every sense, is an outsider here. He wouldn't go around accusing people, including big shots, of being part of a cult, even if he suspected it.

Sure he would. He's a nihilist who hates humanity, religion and authority, and I can easily see long-haired Cohle being capable of falsely accusing powerful religious authorities of being in a murderous cult, simply because it amuses him to tear down the world.....or because he committed the latest murder himself.

My working theory is that Cohle and Hart actually got their man and neither one was involved in any way in the original crimes. But in the process, Cohle goes nuts and becomes obsessed with the iconography, to the point of copy-cat murder. In the interview, long-haired Cohle talks about time as a circle blah, blah, which is interesting because earlier in the time line, short-haired Cohle went back to the original crime scene to find the circle/wreath of sticks, which WASN'T at the site when the body was first found.

I'm actually seeing this more like the final twist in Mamet's Homicide, where you go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy for the length of the film, only to find that the original crime was an unrelated, and rather pedestrian street crime. In this case, an organized murder cult with friends in high places is the red herring to distract from the more direct solution that Cohle had gone insane.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 22, 2014 03:23 PM (aYjRw)

235 Ok, now after reading all this I kind of want to watch. I have HBO. Are they rerunning all the previous episodes/when? Or is this something I'm going to have to watch on my laptop to catch up? And I just discovered I don't have a DVR. I don't know why. So that option is out.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at February 22, 2014 03:24 PM (bCEmE)

236 tami, they're on demand on hbo. They're also on HBO Go. I don't know what that is. It's an internet streaming version of hbo though. I guess you can sign in if you're a subscriber.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 03:28 PM (/FnUH)

237

ok i watched the first episode again and i think it's an anthropologist.

lol or not

Posted by: concrete girl at February 22, 2014 03:30 PM (LhAqq)

238 FYI: the picture of McConaughey's beer-can men is misleading. In the moments after that shot, he stands up the fifth beer-can man. So it is incorrect to say there are four upright beer-can men and a prone beer-can-man victim. When he is finished, there are five upright beer-can men in a circle facing each other. While I found some of the theories in this post intriguing, I thought it worthwhile to point out that at least one piece of "evidence" to support them is not, in fact, any such thing.

Posted by: ghostwriter at February 22, 2014 03:31 PM (1S5xG)

239 WSJ:
"True Detective" References Boost "King In Yellow" Book

http://tinyurl.com/lc5tqfx

Posted by: ChrisP at February 22, 2014 03:40 PM (f0YjW)

240
I think one of those beercan men is actually a cross. The men's arms turn in, like they're hugging. But the fifth figure's arms are straight to the side.

Which is actually one of the things that has me turning towards Cohle trying to falsely tie things in to the religious cult idea. To me it seems more plausible that he's hinting for nefarious purposes rather than hinting to point the cops in the right direction. If he was on the up and up, I'd think he'd be more direct.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 22, 2014 03:44 PM (aYjRw)

241 ghostwriter-- okay I checked and you're right. But it's still five guys then. Either way, we've seen five guys standing around three times. It has to be a signal as to the cult having five members.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 03:45 PM (/FnUH)

242 there have been quite a few "5" references in the show. And it's obvious that Cohle was telegraphing something with that little tinfoil tableau. Since you brought up the antlers in your theorizing: did you catch Marty's reference to having shot a 10-point buck (after Cohle asks Marty if he has ever been hunting)?. 10 points on Dora Lange's antler crown, fwiw.

Posted by: ghostwriter at February 22, 2014 03:50 PM (1S5xG)

243 If you go to Inn n Out burger and order "Carcosa Style", they'll give you a five guys burger. Fact

Posted by: Roberto Luongo at February 22, 2014 03:55 PM (ySb3e)

244

In case Ace or anyone is still reading, Chambers makes mention of the Hyades in "The Repairer of Reputations," one of the four stories in The King in Yellow that allude directly to the eponymous play. There's another five for you - although I'm sure CAC would point out that the Hyades cluster has more than five stars in it, in ancient myth and folklore they were always seen as five in number. English country lore associated them with the month of April and the advent of rain, for what that's worth. There's also some potential in the fact that the surname of Harrison's character is "Hart," given the deer antler motif. Also (and memory may fail me here), but I seem to recall that in one of the few fragments from the play actually quoted in The King in Yellow, there's a reference to the King not wearing a mask. In other spots, he's spoken of as wearing a "pallid mask," but I want to say that in the play he appears, at least at some point, unmasked.

All of which means what exactly? I have no idea, but it could be further grist for the mill, or might point to some red herrings that could be safely eliminated from speculation.

Posted by: A. Pendragon at February 22, 2014 04:18 PM (wJliR)

245 This is not a bad theory, except one thing: if it's a cult dedicated to ending peoples' misery, why torture them? Dora Lange was kept and abused for days before she died; if there is a cult, then it is a sadistic thrill killing one. I do think Cohle came in for the interview with an agenda; he drank all afternoon so the two cops would think he's a lush burn out, but he used it to get a look at their case file. He's a cagey, cunning motherfucker.

Posted by: UGAdawg at February 22, 2014 04:29 PM (e/9tl)

246 Third pic link doesn't work.

Posted by: JohnJ at February 22, 2014 04:30 PM (TF/YA)

247 Close, but I think someone outside of the cult you describe is committing the murders...lawnmower man

Posted by: plucky at February 22, 2014 04:38 PM (Od35u)

248 It was pretty much established in Episode 1 that both detectives genuinely assumed they had the right guy in 95. The subsequent one murder is a surprise to them both. But Cohle is sharp enough to understand they're now looking at him for it, as he was the "weird" one. But both detectives are tied together forever in the lie as to what went down.

Posted by: Dave at February 22, 2014 04:50 PM (xxYwh)

249 >>> Since you brought up the antlers in your theorizing: did you catch Marty's reference to having shot a 10-point buck (after Cohle asks Marty if he has ever been hunting)?. 10 points on Dora Lange's antler crown, fwiw. yeah that and the "hart" name and blond hair throw a lot of suspicion on Harrelson, but I just can't buy it.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 04:53 PM (/FnUH)

250 Be funny if it's Five Guys Named Mo.

Posted by: Dave at February 22, 2014 04:54 PM (xxYwh)

Posted by: gewa76 at February 22, 2014 04:55 PM (k8m83)

252 >>>This is not a bad theory, except one thing: if it's a cult dedicated to ending peoples' misery, why torture them? Dora Lange was kept and abused for days before she died; if there is a cult, then it is a sadistic thrill killing one. not if she was unconscious/comatose. You have a point but I think this is the sort of thing that can be covered by a minor plot element. Like, after the girl is dead, they give it to a guy to pose the body, and THAT guy is sadistic, and he cuts into a dead body, and has sex with it. Or something. I realize they've never said the wounds were post-mortem.

Posted by: ace at February 22, 2014 04:55 PM (/FnUH)

253 Antlers are the trendy go-to-motif for serial killers. Hannibal 2013 too.

Posted by: Dave at February 22, 2014 05:03 PM (xxYwh)

254 All professionally produced WHODUNITS have to follow a couple of simple rules as to who done it. That's novels (Agatha Christia), one-off episodes (Castle), mini-series (True Detectives), or multiples season (The Mentalist). 1. The killer/s HAS to have been introduced as a reasonable character near the beginning. That is: they can't be parachuted in, in the preceeding scene, chapter, episode. 2. It has to be a surprise for most of the audience.

Posted by: Dave at February 22, 2014 05:12 PM (xxYwh)

255 Just rewatched 1st episode and Hart talks about 5 types of cops/people: the bully, the charmer, the surrogate dad, the man possessed by ungovernable rage, and the brain when being interviewed.

Posted by: Swags at February 22, 2014 05:37 PM (6tYVV)

256 In this case, an organized murder cult with friends in high places is the red herring to distract from the more direct solution that Cohle had gone insane.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 22, 2014 07:23 PM (aYjRw)

No, Cohle is no more insane than he always has been. He's deep under cover, and has been since 2002. That's his thing -- his ability to go under cover and stay there for inordinate lengths of time.

Hart is his handler -- the only one who knows Cohle's true assignment. They do not get along, but they are working together, and have been blood brothers ever since Hart essentially murdered the handcuffed Ledoux and Cohle helped cover it up.

Cohle allowed himself to be seen at the Lake Charles crime scene. It was a move to use himself as bait, to see who would notice and come looking for him. It was the two black detectives, so whoever they're working for is part of the cult.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2014 05:39 PM (KOGmz)

257 I think they just all end up in a church in a heaven of their own making. Oh, C'mon, somebody had to make a LOST joke.

Posted by: AmishDude at February 22, 2014 05:47 PM (xSegX)

258

The shot of the daughters' dolls is the biggest red herring in the show. Watch the scene back and you can hear the girls talking as Marty walks to their room. It sounds like they're roleplaying some kind of car accident scene with their dolls. Not the sort of gang-rape or murder cult scenario most people assume.

And you can see the youngest girl holding the doll in the white shirt, the one who ends up on top of the female doll. So it only ends up on top of the female doll when she puts it down to get up for dinner. The female doll being mounted wasn't part of their game.

Posted by: Oscar Meyer at February 22, 2014 05:50 PM (m0HUW)

259 Ace, I have to agree that the eerie photo would only escape Cohle and Hart's attention if it was actually a depiction of Courirs de Mardi Gras clad in home-made capuchons, and thus something of a commonplace image for that region of the country. (Although I still think they resemble the capirotes from Holy Week far more than any capuchon I've ever seen.) I wonder what could be made of the fact that it appears to be a family photo, rather than something staged and snapped by the cult?

Posted by: A. Pendragon at February 22, 2014 05:51 PM (wJliR)

260 Is the sheriff in the 1st episode the same one that is referred to as knowing about the ranch?

Posted by: Swagga at February 22, 2014 06:06 PM (6tYVV)

261 By the way, a friendly warning to anyone who gets interested in Robert W. Chambers's fiction because of this. Chambers wrote one incredibly good, disturbing story ("The Repairer of Reputations"), maybe four or five decent spook-stories ("The Mask" "The Court of the Dragon" "The Yellow Sign" and maybe "The Prophets Paradise") -- those are all worth reading. He also wrote a shitload of really fucking lame humorous romance stories. Avoid them at all costs. Read the collection "The King in Yellow" and then STOP IF YOU VALUE YOUR SOUL.

Posted by: Trimegistus at February 22, 2014 06:30 PM (9JYhg)

262 260 Is the sheriff in the 1st episode the same one that is referred to as knowing about the ranch?

Posted by: Swagga at February 22, 2014 10:06 PM (6tYVV)

No, that's a different sheriff.

But the sheriff from Episode 1 (who gave them the file on the Fontenot girl) was named Childress, which is the same name as one of the two jail guards (Childress and Mahoney) who escorted the pharmacy double-murder prisoner back to his cell where he committed suicide.

Posted by: Phinn at February 22, 2014 07:00 PM (KOGmz)

263 Dora Lange's corpse kind of evokes "The Great God Pan" by Arthur Machen as well. The human female with the alluring grotesque beauty driving men insane.

Posted by: Devil-Slayer at February 22, 2014 08:59 PM (0Ohpd)

264 And the show delves deep into Thomas Ligotti's nihilistic philosophy including taking lines from "The Conspiracy Against the Human Race."

Posted by: Devil-Slayer at February 22, 2014 09:02 PM (0Ohpd)

265

"I contemplate the moment in the Garden. The idea of allowing your own crucifixion."

- Rustin Cohle, episode 1

Posted by: the_sanity-guy at February 22, 2014 09:12 PM (YV/s9)

266 >>>Just rewatched 1st episode and Hart talks about 5 types of cops/people: the bully, the charmer, the surrogate dad, the man possessed by ungovernable rage, and the brain when being interviewed.

You left one out.

Posted by: just a regular type dude with a big-ass dick at February 22, 2014 11:46 PM (IN7k+)

267 thought that was saying he wasn't one of them

Posted by: Swags at February 23, 2014 04:18 AM (6tYVV)

268 Great post. The whole show screams of child abuse. That is apparent. And, yes, as soon as I saw Woody's grown up daughter, you could see she was lashing out from some sort of abuse. That was my first thought. The show could have been called Ode to Roman Polanski or Ode to Woody Allen.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 23, 2014 05:47 AM (IXrOn)

269 Someone up thread questions if the flashbacks are true, I get the "unusual suspects" vibe too.

Posted by: Madamex at February 23, 2014 07:23 AM (vaWdD)

270 just finished reading all the comments. One of the lines by Cohle that stuck out (but, fit his character) was after Hart shot Reggie (after finding the girls). "It was justified." 240 - yeah, that is interesting. Four are in the circle, but one is outside the circle and shaped into a cross. A comp visual. 242 - nice catch. Detective on detective action. 256 - yes. It's Cohle's thing. He goes in deep. I don't believe it's Hart, either, with one caveat, he straddles good and bad to the extreme. The lengths of what men go through, and what they will do when confronted with child abuse.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 23, 2014 07:42 AM (IXrOn)

271 had to go back and rewatch the season after reading this thread (btw.. HBOGO has a great app for roku, and the episodes post as soon as they air on tv. we never record or watch the show on regular tv anymore, always watch on roku). This time I noticed that when the two girls are fishing on the boat at the grandparents' house Macie (sp?) was having problems with her fishing pole and the other one tells her to ask grandpa, to which she quickly replies "no!" before going ahead and asking him. May be a clue about the abuse. Also, it's totally possible that both girls are being abused and are responding differently (one acting out with "bad" behavior and the other making an extra effort to be "good").

Posted by: not the mama at February 23, 2014 08:02 AM (5dxeo)

272 also, since this thread excited my interest I started searching the interwebs for different theories. Somebody pointed out that the name Reggie LeDoux sounds like Reginald (name meaning powerful ruler) le Deux (the second) ... the second powerful ruler? the king's second? Somebody who knows french: are the words LeDoux and le deux pronounced the same?

Posted by: not the mama at February 23, 2014 08:12 AM (5dxeo)

273 What if the Yellow King is a drug? The black stars a side-effect? Carcossa the state of consciousness after taking the drug? Being able to see the human condition from a higher dimension?

Posted by: zb at February 23, 2014 09:46 AM (pCe4w)

274 Or the black stars could be members of the cult/group? Or simply a sign FOR the members?

Posted by: zb at February 23, 2014 09:48 AM (pCe4w)

275 I don't buy the theory that the FIL is abusing his grandchildren. It doesn't make sense. If it were true, then it would almost certainly follow that he had been abusing Maggie as she was growing up. He would have had many more opportunities if that was the way he was wired. But, Maggie shows no signs of growing up with abuse. Her behavior shows no signs of it. She seems to act normally towards men in general and also towards her parents. Plus, she lets her daughters spend time with her parents. Not likely if there was a threat there. In addition, she works in the medical profession, so her training and experience would give her a more clinical perspective on the kind of damage that kind of abuse can cause. No way she lets her daughters around that if she had been abused herself.

Posted by: just a regular type dude with a big-ass dick at February 23, 2014 10:01 AM (IN7k+)

276 sock off

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at February 23, 2014 10:02 AM (IN7k+)

277 I can give you one foreign affairs near-victory.

He could have had his way with the prime minister of Belgium if The First Wife hadn't come along to Mandela's funeral.

Posted by: Whitehall at February 23, 2014 10:26 AM (BGSrZ)

278 Oh, and I forgot - also if Reggie wasn't along too.

Posted by: Whitehall at February 23, 2014 10:28 AM (BGSrZ)

279 275

There is some evidence Maggie doesn't think very highly of her father. In the first scene with her parents she is arguing with her mother about her problems with Marty. She says something to her mom about "you think they're all the same," which I took to mean that her mom thinks negatively about all men, not excluding her own husband or Maggie's husband, but Maggie is still resistant to that idea. Later, after marty's affair is revealed, she meets with Chole at the diner to listen to him relay Marty's request to see the kids. When Chole says that marty screwed up but they should think about what's best for the kids, Maggie says something along the lines of "you're just like the rest of them, making excuses. I bet you were a great husband" very sarcastic and accusatory, which causes him to leave. I took that exchange to mean that she was now thinking like her mother, that all men are "bad."

As to Maggie not allowing her daughter to be abused if she herself had suffered abuse, it's possible, but I also think it's entirely possible she is in denial or thinks she has control of the situation when she doesn't. Also, he might have not abused her, but abused other kids when she was younger, and over the years has progressed in his abuse to target his own family.

Posted by: not the mama at February 23, 2014 11:52 AM (5dxeo)

280 I doubt it's a euthanasia cult. They kill kids. More likely, the cult is based around an amalgamation of pagan practices. Reverend Tuttle and other prominent/rich people are involved, but they may just be promoting or enabling the cult (surreptitiously) in order to strengthen the influence of organized religion and/or themselves.

The bigger picture in the show, IMO, is that modern society is made up of different groups/bands/tribes of people, each of which has some cult-like attributes. The Bible-thumper crowd needs no elaboration; the biker tribe ("I embrace the outlaw life"); the bunny ranch girls ("you don't own it"), the LA state police with their uniforms, regs, dick-measuring antics, etc. Cohle can fit in with any of these groups, but they're not him. He's basically been undercover his whole life, never given to one group identity. Makes him right with the job, though, as he says.

Posted by: TLindsay at February 23, 2014 01:36 PM (ec40q)

281

Okay, I watched the first 5 episodes.

Random stuff:

Someone in the 1st episode mentioned "cave paintings"...as in ancient caveman-type cave paintings.

In episode 4, I think the bartender in the titty bar was Nic Pizzolatto...the executive producer/writer of the series.

In the extra stuff loaded into OnDemand, Pizzolatto talks about how this is "an investigation into the human character, using the investigative detective genre" as a vehicle.

The way the whole thing jumps through time, showing us bits of the story out of sequence, makes me think that we're supposed to look for clues from the beginning...and remember them, for how they will come into play later.

The very 1st scene in episode 1...is two people limping through the dark, out in a field somewhere.

We don't see their faces.

They are holding onto each other, for support...as though they've just been through an ordeal.

Then we see someone lighting one of those totems on fire.

Then we see a field on fire, in the distance in the dark.

This hasn't been brought up...so far.

There has been mention of "high ups" involved in the murders...more than once.

So this could end up being some sort of twisted quasi-pagan thing, with these ritual murders being done as a sort of 'sacrifice' to ensure luck in the Hunt.

But, hunt for what?

Prosperity? Success?

It's been theorized that ancient cave paintings were done to bring luck in the hunt.

That's all I got for now.

Posted by: wheatie at February 23, 2014 01:48 PM (DEUoo)

282

256...No, Cohle is no more insane than he always has been. He's deep under cover, and has been since 2002. That's his thing -- his ability to go under cover and stay there for inordinate lengths of time.

---------

Interesting theory.

In ep.1, in the first scene in the squadroom...some other detectives over at the side of the room, are talking:

"What'd you hear?"

"Ask Cohle."

"You mean The Tax Man?"

"You know he's IA."

[It's easy to miss that. I probably wouldn't have caught it, if I hadn't had captions on...which sometimes picks up background convos.]

IA usually means Internal Affairs.

What if Cohle is deep cover Internal Affairs this whole time?

Posted by: wheatie at February 23, 2014 02:03 PM (DEUoo)

283

Btw...it was the Coroner, in episode 1 that mentioned the 'cave paintings'.

Cohle: "Any idea what all of this means?"

Coroner: "I don't know...it's all primitive, like cave paintings. Maybe you oughta talk to an anthropologist."

Posted by: wheatie at February 23, 2014 02:13 PM (DEUoo)

284 @wheatie:

I thought IA referred to Internal Affairs too, but that it might be common for detectives to assume anyone new showing up in their office to be IA.

Posted by: TLindsay at February 23, 2014 02:19 PM (ec40q)

285 It was the Coroner who referred to the symbolism associated with Dora as being "primitive", like cave paintings. I think that's the take here. Cohle's bs about life is that you keep reliving it over and over the same way, from beginning to end. Same happens for religious beliefs. We go from primitive symbols and cave paintings to the Reverend Tuttles, then repeat.

Posted by: TLindsay at February 23, 2014 02:30 PM (ec40q)

286

284@wheatie:

I thought IA referred to Internal Affairs too, but that it might be common for detectives to assume anyone new showing up in their office to be IA.

---------

Oh definitely.

But with this series, this writer...we don't know what it a clue, and what isn't.

I just watched "The Making Of"...a piece on the making of this.

The writer grew up in Louisianna.

They created a lot of these sets from the gound up...like the Meth Shack, out in the sticks.

Great attention to detail, throughout.

They even filmed this in 35mm...not digital.

They said that "the landscape" is important in this story, and they wanted to do their best to show it.

They've mentioned the Hurricanes, several of them...and show the lingering ravages and devastation.

They also keep showing the ravages of Man...in the industrialization...the remnants of it around the landscape.

So...this cult could maybe be murdering these people as 'sacrifices' to Nature, to appease Nature for what they're doing to the landscape?

Maybe to 'keep the hurricanes away' or some such shit.

Posted by: wheatie at February 23, 2014 02:42 PM (DEUoo)

287 ACE, i really grok true detective, but am very conflicted.

    On the one hand it is a great southern gothic who dunnit (atmospherically anyway), but on the other it seems that everything that is mildly interesting is just glue to watch the anti-christian propaganda.

      With that in mind, there is no fucking way Rustin Chole is the killer. he is the free thinker, not constrained by some misbegotten fealty to a God. The foreshadowing that he is the killer is just teasing us southern yokel God botherers.
     Woody's character Marty is the go along to get along as long as he can appease his appetites. disgusting to everyone because he believes nothing except his own narcissistic desires.
       the yellow tie on tuttle is a not so subtle clue, along with the fact that the scene is shot in the first place, but, as well that it is the catalyst for Rust being put on suspension/quits.
     So yea, the character that is implementing some kind of religious linked school choice solution is the evil mutherfucker that is raping women and children..... it is HBO after all.

Posted by: plithy at February 23, 2014 06:24 PM (bZmWY)

288 hows that analysis for link bait?

Posted by: plithy at February 23, 2014 06:31 PM (bZmWY)

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