Ace of Spades HQ

January 02, 2014

Study: Laws Permitting Concealed Carry Result in Fewer Murders, Not More
— Ace

The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

One of the odd things about Progressives' Gun Panic is their apparent belief that normal, law-abiding citizens will just go Kill-Crazy if they have a gun.

This is absurd. It always has been absurd. It always will be absurd.

A generally lawful citizen will have a marginally higher rate of committing an act of gun violence (especially suicide) simply because of the ease of access to the weapon. Even law-abiding people will have a small increase in opportunistic gun violence, given ease of access.

But this small effect is small beans compared to the number of gun attacks by non-law-abiding people which are deterred or prevented by armed citizens.

I think the Gun Control folks actually have it mind to disarm the non-law-abiding people. But that's hard to do -- most criminals can't legally own a gun, and the law doesn't seem to stop them -- so they decide upon the easy goal of disarming law-abiding folks.

After all, law-abiding folks will abide by the law-- so disarming them is relatively easy, whereas disarming the six-time liquor store bandit and killer isn't so easy. That guy isn't giving up his guns, as his occupation depends on guns, but hey, maybe the average law-abiding citizen will give up his guns, if we threaten him with jail.

And then they can claim victory for having disarmed the 90% of the populace that does nothing at all illegal or hostile with guns. They'll just ignore that the 10% of the population that causes all the chaos and murder still has their guns -- 90% on any test will get you an "A," after all.

Posted by: Ace at 11:15 AM | Comments (319)
Post contains 416 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Hello

Posted by: crank at January 02, 2014 11:16 AM (se3Uw)

2 Alternate title: Well duuuuh!

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 02, 2014 11:17 AM (bCEmE)

3 But, but, but, if we don't do something, anything, how will we ever feel better about ourselves?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 11:17 AM (xQV5E)

4 I consider myself peaceful, rather than law abiding, these days.

Posted by: Blake at January 02, 2014 11:18 AM (HBuxY)

5 Well, you know ace, you don't account for the possibility that the gun will jump up and shoot somebody on its own. The left is absolutely convinced that this happens on a daily basis.

Posted by: joncelli at January 02, 2014 11:18 AM (RD7QR)

6 And if you disagree with me, I will shoot you.

/s

Posted by: tcn at January 02, 2014 11:18 AM (fwcEs)

7 So what? You've got all kinds of empirical data to support your position. We've got FEELINGS. Just like global warming, bitches. Oh, and fuck Mitt Romney's token grandbaby because reasons.

/liberals everywhere.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:19 AM (fwARV)

8 This fact was explored fully in this John Lott book

http://tinyurl.com/q78nv8d

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 02, 2014 11:20 AM (T2V/1)

9 I'm reasonably certain that the people advocating for civilian disarmament feel a closer kinship to the criminal than to me.

Posted by: Luke at January 02, 2014 11:20 AM (2MUaT)

10 I saw Six-Time Liquor Store Bandit open for Incontinent Reprobates at the Newark Picnick Theatre Amphibowl in '92.

Posted by: weft -loop [/i] [/b] at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (dwArK)

11 Nothing beats good signage.

Posted by: garrett at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (8T01L)

12 93.4% of people who kill using a gun like pizza.

Posted by: eman at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (EWsrI)

13 Nothing scares me more than Southern white males armed to the teeth taking pot shots at Obamacare and hippies.

Posted by: Piers Morgan, foreigner at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (P1WNR)

14 It's like the stats they use for drunk drivers.

They show that 10% (or whatever) highway fatalities are caused by drunk drivers. But they don't worry about what causes the other 90%.

I'm not for drunk driving by the way.

Posted by: Bruce at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (nZ561)

15 Can we admit that gun control only became an issue in America when blacks moved north a century ago. The progressive ruling class was pretty fine with the average Northern white having a gun. It's also why we have a minimum wage. A large part of the reason the progressives supported the minimum wage idea was to discourage blacks from moving north. And then a federal minimum wage to discourage companies from moving south.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (ZPrif)

16 The left is absolutely convinced that this happens on a daily basis.

Posted by: joncelli at January 02, 2014 03:18 PM (RD7QR)

One of my favorite games to play with gun-grabbers:

"Look, put a semi-automatic 5.56 rifle in a glass case on the steps of the Capitol. Put a loaded 'high-cap' magazine in the case. Lock and seal the case. Start a stopwatch.

When that weapon chambers and fires a round without any outside interference, I will support banning all guns in the US."

They don't know what to say, because they're forced to acknowledge the criminality of those who commit gun crimes, which negates the entirety of their argument.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:21 AM (fwARV)

17 We should just give all the guns to the Mexican Drug Cartels. You know, to be safe.

Posted by: garrett at January 02, 2014 11:22 AM (8T01L)

18 Obviously, all of us law-abiding gun-humpers have a lot of catching up to do.

Posted by: Bigby's Snow-Shoveling Hands at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (RLTt1)

19 But we'll keep hearing the wild wild west crapola forever. BTW, firearms deaths of LEOs is lowest since 1887. Wild, wild west....

Posted by: M. Murcek at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (GJUgF)

20 Guns don't kill people, gun shaped pop-tarts kill people

Posted by: Liberal Educators at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (Pr6hk)

What you don't get is liberals, for all their fretting about the children and people of color and whatnot, are really only worried that someone might come and shoot THEM.

Guilty consciences, I guess. When I was running a security shift in Bel Air during the Rodney King riots, every single one of our clients was convinced the Brown Hordes were coming straight up Stone Canyon Road after them. We kept explaining that unless they lived above a Circuit City or a liquor store, they were probably safe, but they weren't buying it. They had money and they KNEW the Brown Hordes were coming to kill them for it.

Posted by: Judgmental White Person at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (XO6WW)

22 But disarming criminals would be racist/sexist/heteronormative.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (MMC8r)

23 I think there's an old saying about how a well-armed society is a polite society.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:23 AM (/Crba)

24 The progressives a century ago would probably have been fine just passing laws that made it illegal for blacks to have guns -- but people kept pointing out that that is kinda super racist, so they said fuck it, nobody gets a gun, are you happy now?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:24 AM (ZPrif)

25 >>One of the odd things about Progressives' Gun Panic is their apparent belief that normal, law-abiding citizens will just go Kill-Crazy if they have a gun.

...or will use their gun on their "betters". It's all about keeping the guns out of the hands of those who don't want to be treated as serfs.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 02, 2014 11:24 AM (POpqt)

26 It's like the stats they use for drunk drivers.

They show that 10% (or whatever) highway fatalities are caused by drunk drivers. But they don't worry about what causes the other 90%.

I'm not for drunk driving by the way.

Posted by: Bruce at January 02, 2014 03:21 PM (nZ561)

True, but drunk driving stats are even more bullshit than we think. If ANYONE in any car involved in a fatality has been drinking, they count the death as being caused by alcohol, even if the person or persons who had been drinking were NOT driving.

Posted by: Sharkman at January 02, 2014 11:24 AM (TM1p8)

27 Primary things primary: sekrit to ncj - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. At you, not with you. But this small effect is small beans compared to the number of gun attacks by non-law-abiding people which are deterred or prevented by armed citizens. Remember, it is a lying lie told by lying liars that a gun ever prevented gun violence. Lie, lie, lie, lie lie. I have provided examples, with sourcing, to stories about this happening and been told, all sneeringly, that I got that from the NRA and those are fake stories. That the links were to local news reports was completely ignored.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 02, 2014 11:24 AM (VtjlW)

Ace,

I disagree. The "gun control" folks are 1) lunatics, emotionally driven and incapable of dealing with the facts; or 2) have a goal of disarming the people.

We should not attribute pure motives to a group that is insane and really out to destroy our civil rights.

Posted by: prescient11 at January 02, 2014 11:25 AM (tVTLU)

29 The anti-gunners seem to be shifting to the suicide prevention argument where they have some actual supporting data.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:25 AM (ZPrif)

30 Murder is punishable by death in, er, 39? states. If you are looking to break that law with a gun we just need a stiffer punishment for guns. Maybe death by rats?

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 11:26 AM (sOtz/)

31 13 Nothing scares me more than Southern white males armed to the teeth taking pot shots at Obamacare and hippies. Posted by: Piers Morgan, foreigner at January 02, 2014 03:21 It ain't just SOUTHERN white males, ya Limey ponce.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 02, 2014 11:26 AM (7ObY1)

32 10 I saw Six-Time Liquor Store Bandit open for Incontinent Reprobates at the Newark Picnick Theatre Amphibowl in '92.

Posted by: weft -loop at January 02, 2014 03:21 PM (dwArK)

I was there, TOO!! Great show! I threw up in the parking lot after. Too many strawberry daiquiris.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at January 02, 2014 11:26 AM (43exL)

33 I have provided examples, with sourcing, to stories about this happening and been told, all sneeringly, that I got that from the NRA and those are fake stories. That the links were to local news reports was completely ignored. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 02, 2014 03:24 PM (VtjlW) We absolutely refused to accept FACTS that refute our 'feelings'. Signed - All Liberals

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 02, 2014 11:26 AM (bCEmE)

34 Did I hear correctly that they razed the Sandy Hook Elementary School and are rebuilding a new school on the same site? Is that supposed to provide some sort of exorcism?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 11:26 AM (9oD6p)

35 The anti-gunners seem to be shifting to the suicide prevention argument where they have some actual supporting data. Next they'll need to ban tall buildings.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:27 AM (MMC8r)

36 They also fear the equalizing force of a gun (e.g., makes a 100lb woman capable of protecting herself from a much larger, stronger person), which is pretty ironic for people who can't stop crowing about all of the dreaded inequality in the world.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 02, 2014 11:27 AM (POpqt)

37 My favorite argument to the gun grabbers is how about we regulate the press the same way we regulate guns. One is the first amendment and the other is the second. Shouldn't they be equally regulated?

Posted by: Vic[/i] at January 02, 2014 11:27 AM (T2V/1)

38 Next they'll need to ban tall buildings.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 03:27 PM (MMC8r)

Suicide prevention? That's not very liberal. Get your laws off my body!

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (fwARV)

39
"Gun control" is as much about reducing crime as "Obamacare" is about providing affordable health care.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (nELVU)

40 Guns don't start out as cold-metalled killers. It begins with pranks like ringing doorbells and running. Then it progresses to smashing pumpkins and short-sheeting beds. Later, breaking windows and stealing cars. Why? Republican slashing of Federal yoot programs.

Posted by: eman at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (EWsrI)

41 27 http://tinyurl.com/k47pp5u

Posted by: navycopjoe why god why? at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (MX68J)

42 The anti-gunners seem to be shifting to the suicide prevention argument where they have some actual supporting data.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

O'RLY?

Posted by: Japan, x2 suicide, 0 guns[/i] [/b] at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (dwArK)

43 35 Did I hear correctly that they razed the Sandy Hook Elementary School and are rebuilding a new school on the same site? Is that supposed to provide some sort of exorcism? --- Yeah, that's not gonna end well.

Posted by: Steven Freling at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (/Crba)

44 File this groundbreaking study under "D" for duh.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 11:28 AM (t+DWU)

45 Is that supposed to provide some sort of exorcism? They had Elizabeth Warren stop by and smudge the place with sage. Then they spread Blue Corn Meal over the entire site, just to be sure.

Posted by: garrett at January 02, 2014 11:29 AM (8T01L)

46 Of course a law abiding gun killing spree is absurd ...but I think the government should ban rope, cause a feel a hanging spree coming on.

Posted by: dogfish at January 02, 2014 11:29 AM (nsOJa)

47 46 Is that supposed to provide some sort of exorcism? They had Elizabeth Warren stop by and smudge the place with sage. Then they spread Blue Corn Meal over the entire site, just to be sure. --- I would make a Gabby Giffords joke here, but that's too over the line even for me.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:30 AM (/Crba)

48 The same people who just legalized pot in Colorado are the same ones who think prohibition on guns will stop crime.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:30 AM (MMC8r)

49 42 damn, bad url so lucky....so lucky

Posted by: navycopjoe why god why? at January 02, 2014 11:30 AM (MX68J)

50 We should not attribute pure motives to a group that is insane and really out to destroy our civil rights. There is no need to look at motives at all. A law either does what the people who want it say they want it to do, or it doesn't.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 02, 2014 11:30 AM (V3kRK)

23: " I think there's an old saying about how a well-armed society is a polite society."

Civil discourse would return instantly if they legalized dueling again.

It's amazing how many mugs would magically find and turn on that filter in between their brains and thier mouths when failure to do so would result in a foot of cold steel or a few ounces of hot lead in their innards.

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (/qzu7)

52 The anti-gunners seem to be shifting to the suicide prevention argument where they have some actual supporting data.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe

You would think, but isn't this mostly done by men? I'm not sure there is anything in it for Progs.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (WdbF7)

53 You will never convince me that evil-looking black assault rifles are OK because they look evil and are black and are called assault rifles.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (XUKZU)

54 It's amazing how many mugs would magically find and turn on that filter in between their brains and thier mouths when failure to do so would result in a foot of cold steel or a few ounces of hot lead in their innards. --- It may take a generation or two to really take hold, as some people are removed from the gene pool.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (/Crba)

55 Everyone points to Lott, who is a little more recent, but Point Blank by Gary Kleck is kind of definitive but older. If you can find a copy, I've had bookstore employees sneer, pretend they can't find it, refuse to order it, and offer it at 3-4 times the retail price. It has become another Tribal Politics issue. They have a Cultural Premise they are not allowed to question it, and if you question it you are By Definition Evil, even if all the facts back you up. An unfortunate side effect of mass human endeavor's gift of allowing people to choose their associations is that they think they can choose their objective reality as well.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (qyfb5)

56 If there wasn't a rush for control legislation after white southerner George Zimmerman assassinated Treyvon Martin, there never will be.

Posted by: Piers Morgan, foreigner at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (P1WNR)

57 Civil discourse would return instantly if they legalized dueling again. Let's not be hasty.

Posted by: Zombie Hamilton at January 02, 2014 11:31 AM (8T01L)

58 In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Posted by: Austin in TX at January 02, 2014 11:32 AM (/6EeB)

59 You will never convince me that evil-looking black assault rifles are OK because they look evil and are black and are called assault rifles. The shoulder thing that goes up is the evillest part.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:32 AM (MMC8r)

60 "We should not attribute pure motives [nor give any quarter] to a[ny] group that is really out to destroy our civil rights." FIFY

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 02, 2014 11:32 AM (60Vyp)

61 There they go again. Being logical and finding facts and stuff.

It's not what's REAL, it's what Liberals FEEL!!!!!!1!!!!11!!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 11:32 AM (LSDdO)

62 The gun-suicide data is fairly strong. Suicide is mostly a fleeting impulse. Most who survive it don't do it again. So using a less lethal method is preferable. Of course, most people don't have problems with occasional suicidal ideation. The ones that do should probably not keep guns in the house. It's not that guns increase suicide risk for everyone. They increase the risk for the minority that has occasional suicidal ideation by making their attempts more lethal.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:32 AM (ZPrif)

63 Guilty consciences, I guess. When I was running a security shift in Bel Air during the Rodney King riots, every single one of our clients was convinced the Brown Hordes were coming straight up Stone Canyon Road after them. We kept explaining that unless they lived above a Circuit City or a liquor store, they were probably safe, but they weren't buying it. They had money and they KNEW the Brown Hordes were coming to kill them for it. Would have been a great time to "renegotiate" contracts.....

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 11:33 AM (t+DWU)

64
I think the Gun Control folks actually have it mind to disarm the non-law-abiding people. But that's hard to do -- most criminals can't legally own a gun, and the law doesn't seem to stop them -- so they decide upon the easy goal of disarming law-abiding folks.

Actually, they aren't really that interested in disarming criminals at all. You're assuming a crime-reduction goal, but they don't give a shit about that. Read the gun-grabbers' rhetoric from their own mouths. Lots of bigotry against the TYPE of people that they think own guns: currently consisting of conservatives, rednecks, fat middle-aged men, men with penis envy issues etc, and historically, against undesirable ethnic minorities (blacks and Italians being the most prominent).

At it's roots, gun control is always about culture war against undesirables. The lie that the gun grabbers are interested in crime reduction is just that, a lie.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 02, 2014 11:33 AM (TIIx5)

65 Civil discourse would return instantly if they legalized dueling again.

----

Ooooh .... I'd hit the Pay-per-View button to see Sarah Palin square off at ten paces with Martin Bashir.

Repeatedly.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 11:33 AM (nELVU)

66 In the Catholic schools I went to, 93-100 was an A. 84-92 was a B.

Posted by: shillelagh at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (hRzu2)

67 You will never convince me that evil-looking black assault rifles are OK because they look evil and are black That's ray-ciss!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (t+DWU)

68 I'm sure the progs don't care that suicide is disproportionately done by middle-aged white males. They probably are happy about it. They don't really want to stop suicides by middle-aged white men, it's just a convenient argument to ban guns.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (ZPrif)

69 Let's not be hasty. Posted by: Zombie Hamilton at January 02, 2014 03:31 PM (8T01L) Wimp

Posted by: Zombie Aaron Burr[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (yz6yg)

70 In the Heller/McDonald cases, Justice Thomas examined the history of gun control laws. They were first passed after the Civil War. Democrats wanted to keep guns out of the hands of freed slaves.

Posted by: real joe at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (xXhgd)

71 >>>>are rebuilding a new school on the same site

Well, security did leave something to be desired.

Posted by: Bigby's Snow-Shoveling Hands at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (RLTt1)

72 For the left, it isn't about *saving* anybody (which gun bans don't do anyway); it is about control. Control of you. Control of what you might do.

Posted by: dogfish at January 02, 2014 11:34 AM (nsOJa)

73 If you vote left, you think left. If you think left, you can't be trusted with a gun (the same goes for most six year olds).

Posted by: IndianaPotts at January 02, 2014 11:35 AM (AZNEY)

74 Guns don't start out as cold-metalled killers.

It begins with pranks like ringing doorbells and running. Then it progresses to smashing pumpkins and short-sheeting beds.
Later, breaking windows and stealing cars.

Why?

Republican slashing of Federal yoot programs.
-
Didja see that John Roberts was complaining about the sequester cuts compromising courthouse security?

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 11:35 AM (XUKZU)

75 Since I've been carrying, I noticed that I go even further out of my way to avoid trouble

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 02, 2014 11:35 AM (cGaCp)

76 I'd hit the Pay-per-View button to see Sarah Palin square off at ten paces with Martin Bashir.

Repeatedly.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 03:33 PM (nELVU)

If she ate nothing but cabbage and drank nothing but beer, I'm confident she could hit him in the mouth at that range.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:35 AM (fwARV)

A generally lawful citizen will have a marginally higher rate of committing an act of gun violence (especially suicide) simply because of the ease of access to the weapon.

Ace, actually people with CCW licenses are MORE law-abiding than the average person or even the Police.

People with CCW licenses are less likely to commit crimes, like murder robbery, rape, assault.

Posted by: rd at January 02, 2014 11:35 AM (D+lxs)

78 This fact was explored fully in this John Lott book Obama to Lott: "You're that gun guy, right?" *turns away*

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 02, 2014 11:36 AM (45N4D)

79 Our neighbors burned sage when they were moving in to keep out evil spirits. Greenies, natch. And it worked! I have not seen a single one.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 11:36 AM (sOtz/)

80 The anti-gunners seem to be shifting to the suicide prevention argument where they have some actual supporting data. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 03:25 PM (ZPrif) Hide posts from (ZPrif) I admit I may not have seen them all, but every remotely defensible study I've seen suggests no rational connection - suicidal people simply choose another method. People have done meta-studies (always a little questionable) across many populations trying to whittle out some connection, with little or no success. Again, a cultural and individual problem is blamed on an implement or The Dreaded Other.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 11:36 AM (qyfb5)

81 "Popping a cap in somebody's ass is every mans God given right"

--- Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 02, 2014 11:36 AM (P1WNR)

82 "....whereas disarming the six-time ~~liquor~~ pot store bandit .." ----------------------- Edited for Colorado.

Posted by: Michael Mann at January 02, 2014 11:36 AM (aDwsi)

83 I happen to own several guns (all but one inherited from my Dad and husband), but, I am the least likely person on the planet to use them to kill someone. I have a tough time killing bugs, so people are pretty safe. But owning a gun safe full of inert metal makes me a crazed felon-in-waiting.

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (fquoT)

84 82 Our neighbors burned sage when they were moving in to keep out evil spirits. Greenies, natch. And it worked! I have not seen a single one. --- I should see if they make an offer for my anti-tiger rock that I keep around...

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (/Crba)

85 It ain't just SOUTHERN white males, ya Limey ponce.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 02, 2014 03:26 PM (7ObY1)

Yeah, and some of us are GIRLS, ya Limey ponce.

Posted by: tcn at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (fwcEs)

86
Every black helicopter is armed with those evil black assault weapons, and we American's for a civil society don't want guns to be a part of the culture.

Posted by: Michael Moore at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (pJF+c)

87 So how much was spent on this study that anyone with half a working brain or a small dose of common sense would have known without thinking?

Posted by: Bill R. at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (QnRSM)

88 http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/19190/

In Case You Missed It: Magpul Industries to Move Headquarters to Texas

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (0It32)

89 A gun stands up in front of the group and says, "Um, hi, my name is Glock, and I'm a killer." The other guns say in unison, "Hi, Glock"

Posted by: eman at January 02, 2014 11:37 AM (EWsrI)

90 Guns don't start out as cold-metalled killers... Why? Republican slashing of Federal yoot programs. *** Midnight basketball? Talk about shooting hoops!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 11:38 AM (g4TxM)

91 @82 Beagle Seriously?

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 11:38 AM (P6QsQ)

92 91 http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/19190/

In Case You Missed It: Magpul Industries to Move Headquarters to Texas

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at January 02, 2014 03:37 PM (0It32)

Good for them. Go where you're wanted.

Posted by: joncelli at January 02, 2014 11:38 AM (RD7QR)

93 Guilty consciences, I guess. When I was running a security shift in Bel Air during the Rodney King riots, every single one of our clients was convinced the Brown Hordes were coming straight up Stone Canyon Road after them. We kept explaining that unless they lived above a Circuit City or a liquor store, they were probably safe, but they weren't buying it. They had money and they KNEW the Brown Hordes were coming to kill them for it. Didn't Streisand confess in an interview that she had a bunch of guard dogs because she's convinced the hordes are going to storm her (multiple) mansion(s)?

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 02, 2014 11:39 AM (45N4D)

94 I have a tough time killing bugs, so people are pretty safe. But owning a gun safe full of inert metal makes me a crazed felon-in-waiting. Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at January 02, 2014 03:37 PM (fquoT) You knowÂ….an AR-15 can kill a lot of bugs without you ever getting near them. Might need a lot more drywall repair though.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:39 AM (yz6yg)

I guess we should start asking gun control proponents why they want kids to die.

Posted by: Warden at January 02, 2014 11:39 AM (HzhBE)

96 let's remember the first rule of liberal/left wing thinking: this time it will work. (A more general form of the "real socialism hasn't been tried yet" rule.)

Posted by: Mallfly at January 02, 2014 11:39 AM (bJm7W)

97 I note that these same people are perfectly OK with death panels.

Posted by: Michael Mann at January 02, 2014 11:40 AM (aDwsi)

98 I guess we should start asking gun control proponents why they want kids to die. They're just clumps of cells.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:40 AM (MMC8r)

99 Posted by: Mallfly at January 02, 2014 03:39 PM (bJm7W)

Don't forget that this time the RIGHT people are running the show, so we can expect better results!

Posted by: J Podpeopledesta at January 02, 2014 11:41 AM (o3MSL)

100

77: "Didja see that John Roberts was complaining about the sequester cuts compromising courthouse security?"

Now there's some news that warms my cold dead heartshaped nether regions.

If only there was a more certain and widespread manner in which to make the judiciary FEEL the consequences of their decisions like the rest of us.

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at January 02, 2014 11:42 AM (v6cwT)

101

I do not think CCW reduces the attempts at crime and possibly murder , only the success.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 11:42 AM (m2CN7)

102 Midnight youth skeet leagues, yay!!

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 11:42 AM (g4TxM)

103 prescient11 @ 28 said, "We should not attribute pure motives to a group that is insane and really out to destroy our civil rights."

They aren't insane. Don't give them that excuse. They are coldly rational and totally evil.

Posted by: John Morris at January 02, 2014 11:42 AM (sCRhB)

104 (A more general form of the "real socialism hasn't been tried yet" rule.)
-
Yeah, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all Republicans.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (XUKZU)

105 ->50, exactly Ace, I would say that more broadly speaking, leftists don't think that citizens in advanced nations should own guns outside of some hunting rifles and shotguns (as long as they're registered, natch). They've waited 100 years to get their national healthcare, so they're ok with the long game. That CCW's reduce gun violence doesn't matter - they know that eliminating all guns will eliminate gun violence. However, they can never propose that outright or you'd see a Senate with 80+ GOP senators. So, expect them to ignore such stories until every non-hunting weapon is confiscated or they've basically outlawed the sale of bullets or bullet components.

Posted by: CJR at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (Vqcn4)

106 Our neighbors burned sage when they were moving in to keep out evil spirits. Greenies, natch. And it worked! I have not seen a single one. I burned tires when I moved in to keep out Greenies. And it worked!!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (t+DWU)

107 Our neighbors burned sage when they were moving in to keep out evil spirits. Greenies, natch. And it worked! I have not seen a single one. -------------- I would say that it did not work..., I mean, 'Greenies'

Posted by: Michael Mann at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (aDwsi)

108 #98, don't own an AR-15, but, I presume the 44 Magnum or the 9 mill or the 357 Magnum or the 45 would all bust up the drywall, right?

Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (fquoT)

109 104 Second look at hammers? Posted by: Murders-R-Us at January 02, 2014 03:41 PM (yn6XZ) Tomahawks

Posted by: RWC at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (fWAjv)

110 35- Seamus Muldoon I have not heard that, but if true, I think they should build a gun range nearby, much like the liberals thought it would be a good idea to allow a mosque to be built near the rebuilt World Trade Center site.

Posted by: Darth Randall at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (Zswg6)

111 >Democrats wanted to keep guns out of the hands of freed slaves.

Posted by: real joe at January 02, 2014 03:34 PM (xXhgd)<

The Chicago gun ban was actually accomplished by mobsters. They, the corrupt police and politicos were afraid of armed citizenry.

Google the name Fred Roti

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (cGaCp)

112 "After all, law-abiding folks will abide by the law-- so disarming them is relatively easy............" Uh, OK, if you say so.

Posted by: tubal the bad at January 02, 2014 11:43 AM (YEQ2h)

113 @95 Seriously, they went around their new house with burning sage. Joking, "It worked!" I too have owned guns since Danny Rolling was carving up college students. Have not murdered anyone, yet. Yet!

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (sOtz/)

114 Midnight youth skeet leagues Searchlight has had one of these for years. I shoot my skeet with them, exclusively.

Posted by: Harry Reid (D) at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (8T01L)

115 Speaking of guns just going off, there was a story recently about a police raid on the home of a suspected drug dealer* where the cops tossed in the flashbang grenades, stormed the place and there was a woman dying of a gun shot wound to the head. She did die and the autopsy revealed that the shot came from one of the officer's weapons. He had no idea that he had even fired. All he could figure is that when the flashbangs went off, he startled and pulled the trigger. We read that and blame the cop for failing to handle a weapon safely**. The gun grabbers read that and exclaim see see even a trained officer cannot handle his weapon so how on earth can you believe any civilian can? We're not even using the same facts to form opinions. *For once, it was at the correct address and drugs were found at the premises. **A tiny, tiny part of me feels like there but for the grace of God go I. The rest feels that if you cannot handle your weapon in such a situation, you have no business being in a position that requires that you do so.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (VtjlW)

116 (A more general form of the "real socialism hasn't been tried yet" rule.) ---------------- It was always "run by the wrong people"

Posted by: Michael Mann at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (aDwsi)

117 Appropriate cartoon is appropriate...and on topic for once! That they are proud of it enough to list it in a best of for the year, is beyond me.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/n43yfy5

Posted by: LizLem at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (BF+2f)

118 don't own an AR-15, but, I presume the 44 Magnum or the 9 mill or the 357 Magnum or the 45 would all bust up the drywall, right? Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at January 02, 2014 03:43 PM (fquoT) Indeed. Indeed they will. ::: swoon :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (yz6yg)

119 113 #98, don't own an AR-15, but, I presume the 44 Magnum or the 9 mill or the 357 Magnum or the 45 would all bust up the drywall, right? Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes C'est Magnifique at January 02, 2014 03:43 PM (fquoT) The lil 9mm might scratch the surface. ducks

Posted by: RWC at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (fWAjv)

120 (A more general form of the "real socialism hasn't been tried yet" rule.)
-
Yeah, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all Republicans.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 03:43 PM (XUKZU)

They were all Republicans AND they didn't graduate from Harvard!

Posted by: J Podpeopledesta at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (o3MSL)

121 No shit. These gun studies are becoming like the "Who thinks about sex more- men or women?" type of studies[hint: men]. It's common sense at this point and it seems that a vast majority of Americans agree.

Posted by: Naes1984 at January 02, 2014 11:44 AM (zeV2E)

122 Tomahawks Stone, steel, or nuclear?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 11:45 AM (naUcP)

123 "Study: Laws Permitting Concealed Carry Result in Fewer Murders, Not More" An consequence so blatantly obvious that only a Liberal can be so stupid as to not comprehend it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 02, 2014 11:45 AM (bb5+k)

124 Didn't Streisand confess in an interview that she had a bunch of guard dogs because she's convinced the hordes are going to storm her (multiple) mansion(s)? Speaking of storming hordes, I talked a neighbor of mine out of his plans to bug out immediately should SHTF. My argument was for him to walk to the nearest grocery store shopping center (about a three-minute drive) and think of what it would take to get a roving band of zombies to make the trip going the other way. My follow up was asking how hospitable he planned to be toward strangers claiming they were only passing through.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 02, 2014 11:45 AM (V3kRK)

125 We just need to make the "Gun Free Zone" Signs larger, and post more of them.

Posted by: Liberals Everywhere at January 02, 2014 11:45 AM (32Ze2)

126 and are called assault rifles.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 03:31 PM (XUKZU)

they used to be called a rifle untill they wanted to ban them.

Then they added the assault part

Posted by: zipline Bob at January 02, 2014 11:45 AM (q+zA9)

127 Water is wet. Film at eleven.

Posted by: shredded chi, a little happier than last year at January 02, 2014 11:46 AM (82LNv)

128 114 104 Second look at hammers? Posted by: Murders-R-Us at January 02, 2014 03:41 PM (yn6XZ) Tomahawks Crossbow!

Posted by: Cicero Kid at January 02, 2014 11:46 AM (6fSty)

129 Posted by: Albie Damned at January 02, 2014 03:35 PM (cGaCp)

Carrying the responsibility of death on your hip makes anyone a bit more thoughtful (usually. There are exceptions now and then) and take time (whatever's available) to evaluate the true stituation.

I had a friend's brother go nuts one night. He was pissed at me about something and started to try to break into where I was. Screaming and yelling how he was going to "get" me.

I went upstairs and hid. I had a pistol in a storage locker and considered arming myself but decided to take a chance and to just try to avoid him.

His sister to this day thanks me for that.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 11:46 AM (LSDdO)

130 Oklahoma City Bombing, 9-11, and the HappyLand fire all could have been prevented with gun control.

Posted by: --- at January 02, 2014 11:46 AM (MMC8r)

131 Here's a recent study by Alex Tabarrok from Marginal Revolution http://tinyurl.com/mrj2hb2, on guns and suicide risk. --- In my latest paper, Firearms and Suicides in US States, (written with the excellent Justin Briggs) we examine the easier question, what is the relationship between firearms and suicide? Using a variety of techniques and data we estimate that a 1 percentage point increase in the household gun ownership rate leads to a .5 to .9% increase in suicides. Even if one thinks that suicides donÂ’t cause gun ownership one might imagine that they are correlated due say to a third factor such as social anomie. We have an interesting test of this in the paper. If suicides and gun ownership were being driven by a third factor we would expect gun ownership to be correlated with all suicides not just gun-suicide. What we find, however, is that an increase in gun ownership decrease non-gun suicide. From an economics perspective this makes perfect sense. As gun ownership increases, the cost of gun-suicide falls because guns are easier to access and as the cost of gun-suicide falls there is substitution away from non-gun suicide. Put differently, when gun ownership decreases other methods of suicide increase. Substitution among methods is not perfect, however, so when gun ownership decreases we see a big decrease in gun-suicide and a substantial but less than fully compensating increase in non-gun suicide so a net decrease in the number of suicides. Our econometric results are consistent with the literature on suicide which finds that suicide is often a rash and impulsive decisionÂ–most people who try but fail to commit suicide do not recommit at a later dateÂ–as a result, small increases in the cost of suicide can dissuade people long enough so that they never do commit suicide. The results in the paper appear to be robust but the data on gun ownership is frustratingly sparse due to political considerations.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:46 AM (ZPrif)

132 Mann sock off

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (aDwsi)

133 News Flash: Most normal, law-abiding citizens already have guns and have had access to guns since they were crapping their drawers.

The kill-crazy progressives watch too many Hollywood movies.

Posted by: Fritz at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (TKFmG)

134 It was always "run by the wrong people"

---

... and always will be.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (nELVU)

135 That's ray-ciss!

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 03:34 PM (t+DWU)

Finalwy, thomebody making thome thenth around here.

Posted by: Melitha Hawwith-Pewwy at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (wAQA5)

136 OT- Penn State football coach Bill O'Brien, who recently had an interview released stating he was bolting soon because of all the bullshit he gets from the "Paterno people" at Penn State, is expected to become the next coach of the Houston Texans. Considering he did well at Penn State by keeping the program from becoming a total shit show like SMU circa 1989, I figure he'll be fine in Houston as long as they get a competent QB.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (/Crba)

137
You will never convince me that evil-looking black assault rifles are OK because they look evil and are black and are called assault rifles.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 03:31 PM (XUKZU)

This pic from ENDO always makes me snigger.

http://tinyurl.com/aqa56q8

(this comment pre-denounced for your pleasure)

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 02, 2014 11:47 AM (TIIx5)

138 "After all, law-abiding folks will abide by the law-- so disarming them is relatively easy............" Uh, OK, if you say so.

Posted by: tubal the bad at January 02, 2014 03:43 PM (YEQ2h)

Google Connecticut Gun Registration

Posted by: J Podpeopledesta at January 02, 2014 11:48 AM (o3MSL)

139 The gun-suicide data is fairly strong.

This is true.

That the leftist anti-gunners use this fact to try and bolster their position demonstrates that they're lying when they claim that they're OK with people owning guns, but rather just want to ban 'assault weapons'.

Most gun-related suicides aren't performed with a 30 gauge semi-automatic assault rifle with a 200 round clip.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (SY2Kh)

140 Stone, steel, or nuclear? Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 03:45 PM (naUcP) Steel http://tinyurl.com/msm8vbq

Posted by: RWC at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (fWAjv)

141 I did hear right regarding Sandy Hook. Here's the NBC story http://tinyurl.com/qx6wn8

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (g4TxM)

142 i'm still stunned all those people in CT lined up to register their rifles, magazines and ammo. Freedom killing laws like that should be greeted with contempt not compliance. Giving your local sheriff an inventory of your armaments ain't a bright idea if you ask me.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (HEa5q)

143 ... and always will be. Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 03:47 PM (nELVU) You read my book!

Posted by: Friedrich Hayek[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (yz6yg)

144 Second look at hammers? ------------------ Leave us out of this...

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 02, 2014 11:49 AM (aDwsi)

145 leftists love murder.

Posted by: X at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (KHo8t)

146 Guns are mostly used to just scare people off.

Posted by: Bean Pies, ey? at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (Qev5V)

147 143 "After all, law-abiding folks will abide by the law-- so disarming them is relatively easy............" Uh, OK, if you say so. Posted by: tubal the bad at January 02, 2014 03:43 PM (YEQ2h) Google Connecticut Gun Registration --- Connecticut is hardly Texas. New York state residents, OTOH, basically gave cops the finger and are having to be careful about sting operations where the copy arrest you for buying discounted ammunition and force you to give an inventory of all your weapons to them.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (/Crba)

148 Josh McCown would be a good fit in Houston.

Posted by: tubal the bad at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (YEQ2h)

149 Longbows.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (fwARV)

150 I denounce the facts in this post as untrue and as a thought violation... Maybe racist...

... hate speech...

I DENOUNCE IT!!!!!

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 02, 2014 11:50 AM (BZAd3)

151 @120 atc Cop shot by accident in a safety lecture at an elementary school last year. Triggers and chambered rounds, how do they work?

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 11:51 AM (sOtz/)

152 I figure he'll be fine in Houston as long as they get a competent QB.

Posted by Brandon in Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 03:47 PM (/Crba)

Most people in Houston want to give Case Keenum a chance. I agree.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 11:51 AM (m2CN7)

153 Well they've cooking up these studies, funded by the Joyce Foundation and Soros's Sarah Diamond foundation, for a little over two decades.

Posted by: jeffrey pelt at January 02, 2014 11:52 AM (Jsiw/)

154 I guess we should start asking gun control proponents why they want kids to die.

Posted by: Warden at January 02, 2014 03:39 PM (HzhBE)

I point to England's radical spike in violent crimes against persons (rape, assault, et al.) and ask why they want women to be raped. That hits harder than dying kids to the pro-abortion crowd.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:52 AM (fwARV)

155 145 The gun-suicide data is fairly strong. Japan has no guns and a suicide rate 3X the US per capita. Depressed people always find a way unfortunately. In Japan, the new thing is sealing themselves in their cars and gassing themselves with chlorine gas. In other words limiting firearms would not limit suicides- just redirect them to jumps, electrocution, hanging and so on.

Posted by: Naes1984 at January 02, 2014 11:52 AM (zeV2E)

156 148 i'm still stunned all those people in CT lined up to register their rifles, magazines and ammo. Freedom killing laws like that should be greeted with contempt not compliance. Giving your local sheriff an inventory of your armaments ain't a bright idea if you ask me. Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at January 02, 2014 03:49 PM (HEa5q) They should have defied that law. And we should defy any similar laws.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 02, 2014 11:52 AM (bb5+k)

157

The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

But contradicts an even earlier study by Little and Ketchup (1995).

Posted by: wth at January 02, 2014 11:52 AM (wAQA5)

158 154 Josh McCown would be a good fit in Houston. --- As a stop-gap at the least. I don't see a QB worthy of the #1 overall pick, but various mocks show them taking Teddy Bridgewater of Louisville and the Jags taking either Blake Bortles of UCF or Johnny Football. All three of those guys seem wrong for the top 5 to me.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 11:53 AM (/Crba)

159 NearsiderÂ….contact me on gmail.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:53 AM (yz6yg)

160 "After all, law-abiding folks will abide by the law-- so disarming them is relatively easy, whereas disarming the six-time liquor store bandit and killer isn't so easy. That guy isn't giving up his guns, as his occupation depends on guns, but hey, maybe the average law-abiding citizen will give up his guns, if we threaten him with jail."

Do they track tragic boating accidents?

Posted by: Jean at January 02, 2014 11:53 AM (4JkHl)

161 Do they track tragic boating accidents? --- What about boaking accidents?

Posted by: Principal Seymour Skinner at January 02, 2014 11:53 AM (/Crba)

162 Cop shot by accident in a safety lecture at an elementary school last year. Triggers and chambered rounds, how do they work? Glock?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 11:53 AM (t+DWU)

163 Has anyone else noticed that liberal site after liberal site is closing down their comments section, or making you register with your real name, or something like that. More guns; less crime. Yeah, we all know that. But we're here. Liberals hate facts. Liberals are weak-minded narcissists, or wannabe narcissists (often via proxy: reality TV, facebook, etc.) that eschew facts. They also often eschew mathematics, and other things that are "hard," like balancing a budget. Paul Ryan is a swine, but at least he gives the illusion of understanding basic arithmetic. He's hailed as a genius when he's only a huckster, but at least he gives the impression of caring - maybe that's all that separates the two parties these days. The Republicans lie that they'll do the right thing; the Demoncrats lie about everything.

Posted by: RobM1981 at January 02, 2014 11:54 AM (zurJC)

164 >>>Uh, OK, if you say so.

Y'all say that. Take a good hard look at Australia before you get to confident it won't be *easy enough* that they'll actually get it done.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 11:54 AM (0q2P7)

165 Guns may not cause murder, but I will say this: I will not allow a gun in my home. Permanently, temporarily, or ever. A gun is a machine designed to kill. I do not want machines designed to kill in my home. My fear is not that I (or someone else) will suddenly go on a homicidal rampage, but rather that it is be involving in some sort of unintentional incident. "Gun accidents" do happen all the time, and they are avoidable, simply by not being around guns. Here's a thought experiment: A guy at a security company says to you, "We have a new product. Here's how it works: We bury a huge bomb made of TNT directly under your house. This bomb can be remotely triggered by a small device with a red button on it. If, for example, someone breaks into your home while you are gone and the alarm is triggered, you can press the button wherever you might be and blow the burglar to kingdom come." You: "So, where will the button be when I'm not using it?" Him: "Oh, it'll be someone in your house. Wherever you want it to be. On you nightstand. In your purse. Or in a safe. But please note that if you keep it in a safe, you won't be able to use it very well! Ha ha." Question: Would you buy such a product? Would you want to have floating around in your possessions a button that, if pressed, could blow up your house and/or kill or injure you or your family? Of course not. No sane person would. Anyway, that's how I personally feel about having guns in my home. Too much potential for danger, for very little potential benefit. This of course is just my opinion for just me. I support the Constitution and that includes the Second Amendment. And if you want a gun or a bomb-trigger in your house, well, hey, that's your prerogative.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 11:54 AM (+cx5n)

166 in 2014 i'm hoping for another republican wave election. But i don't give a shit about how many seats they take in congress, those fuckers are beyond hope. State houses are more important since they only way to fix this mess is for the states to call an constitutional amendment convention and put DC's balls in a vice.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at January 02, 2014 11:54 AM (HEa5q)

167 Did anyone listen to the Adam Carolla podcast with Stacey Dash, from the Reagan library? She talked about shooting, she mostly does birds like pheasant, and they joked about how she and Ted Nugent can go do the game shooting while Adam sits back at the camp, useless. How awesome would that be as a reality show? LA rons/ettes, include her on your list of ppl to be in your camp for when the burning times come.

Posted by: LizLem at January 02, 2014 11:55 AM (BF+2f)

168 The folks in CT still believe in a benign Gov't.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 11:55 AM (LSDdO)

169 >> I note that these same people are perfectly OK with death panels.

And free abortion on demand.
But not the death penalty or the war on terror.

Posted by: Lizzy at January 02, 2014 11:55 AM (POpqt)

170 Oh, it'll be someone in your house = Oh, it'll be someWHERE in your house

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (+cx5n)

171 Cop shot by accident in a safety lecture at an elementary school last year. Triggers and chambered rounds, how do they work? Glock? True fact: When holstering a weapon, clothing can get into the trigger guard. As you press the weapon into place, it can depress the trigger. Other true fact: That a Glock lacks an external hammer, you have no hint this is happening until it goes *bang*.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (45N4D)

172 NearsiderÂ….contact me on gmail.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 02, 2014 03:53 PM (yz6yg)

Done.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (fwARV)

173 Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n)

---

You dont.... perchance..... drive a car do you?

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (nELVU)

174 Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!

Posted by: Dang, shooting his gun in the air because he has a permit for that at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (MNq6o)

175 zombie - So..., have you eliminated all of the sharp/pointed objects from your home?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (aDwsi)

176 Sorry.... not available to go to Houston. I am spending the next 7 years making Shitcago a .500 team.

Posted by: Jay "Porn Stashe" Cutler at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (32Ze2)

177 if you don't have a gun in your home how are you going to disallow anything?

Posted by: X at January 02, 2014 11:56 AM (KHo8t)

178 182 zombie - So..., have you eliminated all of the sharp/pointed objects from your home? --- What about a bunch of bananas?

Posted by: Monty Python's Flying Circus at January 02, 2014 11:57 AM (/Crba)

179 Japan has no guns and a suicide rate 3X the US per capita.

Logic fail.

We have no way of knowing what their suicide rate would be if they did have widespread gun ownership.

Nobody is arguing that it's impossible to commit suicide without a gun. Likewise, none of us are arguing that we need more gun control to lower the suicide rate.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (SY2Kh)

180 You dont.... perchance..... drive a car do you? Posted by: fixerupper You thought that was a good "gotcha" question, but it backfired: No, I do NOT drive a car.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (+cx5n)

181 This of course is just my opinion for just me. I support the Constitution and that includes the Second Amendment. And if you want a gun or a bomb-trigger in your house, well, hey, that's your prerogative. Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n) There's so much logically wrong with that analogy, I can't even begin to fisk it. To each his own.

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (yz6yg)

182 In Japan, the new thing is sealing themselves in their cars and gassing themselves with chlorine gas. WTF?

CO is manufactured by the car, are these electric vehicles?

Posted by: Jean at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (4JkHl)

183 I think I'm hearing, 'Just because Obama, and persons in his administration, including the 'independent' Justice Department, and illegal aliens, and labor unions - just because they can violate, with impunity, the laws of this country, that two wrongs don't make a right. Is that right?

Is that what I'm hearing?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (BZAd3)

184 You know, I'm not going to pick on zombie.

What just got enunciated is the precise difference between liberals and conservatives.

Zombie doesn't want a gun, so he doesn't buy one.
Liberals don't want a gun, so they try to ban them.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (fwARV)

185 Cross-country comparisons are weak because suicide risk is correlated with ethnicity. The data I see shows Japan with almost 2x the suicide rate of America, not 3x. But a proper study needs to control for factors like ethnicity and geography. Generally speaking the more northern ethnic groups -- like Japan and the Scandis -- have higher suicide rates. Sub-saharan African have generally very low suicide rates.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 11:58 AM (ZPrif)

186 Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n)

Please.

With all due respect (and of course it's your right to think and act this way) but your analogy fails in so many different ways.

Do you have a dog?

Do you have knives?

Do you have natural gas?

Do you have oil heat?

Do you have electricity?

Do you drive a car?

Do you understand my point?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 11:59 AM (LSDdO)

187

So, expect them to ignore such stories until every non-hunting weapon is confiscated or they've basically outlawed the sale of bullets or bullet components.

Well they closed down the last US lead smelter . . . brass may be next

Posted by: McCool at January 02, 2014 11:59 AM (nCSwS)

188 Bannion, I'll keep the baseplate at my place, if you'll hold the tube

Posted by: Jean at January 02, 2014 11:59 AM (4JkHl)

189 189 In Japan, the new thing is sealing themselves in their cars and gassing themselves with chlorine gas. WTF? CO is manufactured by the car, are these electric vehicles? No, they mix common household materials to do it.

Posted by: Naes1984 at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (zeV2E)

190

The regressives moan about kids that get ahold of their parents weapon and end up shooting themselves or a sibling which is tragic when it happens. But also tragic is kids that drown in bathtubs, swimming pools, hit by cars, falls, burns, etc.

To a regressive what is not so tragic and must be defended and paid for is abortion.

Posted by: Cheri at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (G+Wff)

191 One of the stupid arguments they make is "why are you so scared that you have to carry a gun?" Believe me, I am not scared but I am prepared. This week my wife got a brand new suv, into it I put a brand new, 4 cell maglight, nice first aid kit, fire extinguisher, her old tool kit that was in her car (the new things she got replace the old ones in her old car that will go to the new owner whenever we sell her old car) and her go bag. I also got her a cargo net to hold down anything she has in the back so as not to become a child injuring projectile in a wreck, since an suv has no trunk. She had never needed any of those things, I on the other hand have needed most of them at one time or another in emergencies. My being prepared has so far resulted in four people not being dead. I don't carry a gun because I am scared, I carry a gun because I am experienced.

Posted by: traye at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (Woem8)

192 I lived as a would-be felon in NY for a while. Then I moved to VA, and now I'm just an ordinary gun owner.

Posted by: CJR at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (Vqcn4)

193 Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:58 PM (+cx5n)

----

you're being pedantic

Substitute any of the "risks of living" here.

Live in a big city, RIDE (better??) in a vehicle, Live in a Tornado/Earthquake/Flood zone???

Lotsa bacteria and viruses out there. How about breathe???

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (nELVU)

194 136 Here's a recent study by Alex Tabarrok from Marginal Revolution http://tinyurl.com/mrj2hb2, on guns and suicide risk. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 03:46 PM (ZPrif) Hide posts from (ZPrif) The first problem I see is that a conclusion is drawn from multiple sources, none of which are well-controlled for accuracy. It's not just firearms ownership data that's hard to come by, it's cause of death. Admittedly that applies to *all* studies in areas like this, so any numbers that aren't truly dramatic are automatically suspect. It's like the problem of RR and P-values in published studies - so many of them just aren't significant but are presented and accepted as if they are. Real life problems are often just staggeringly difficult to solve.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (qyfb5)

195 I guess it's Marquis of Queensbury until it's not.

Posted by: X at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (KHo8t)

196 192 Cross-country comparisons are weak because suicide risk is correlated with ethnicity. The data I see shows Japan with almost 2x the suicide rate of America, not 3x. But a proper study needs to control for factors like ethnicity and geography. Generally speaking the more northern ethnic groups -- like Japan and the Scandis -- have higher suicide rates. Sub-saharan African have generally very low suicide rates. --- Japan's suicide rates are cultural more than climate-based, if that's where you're going with it. Someone who underperforms in various ways is under a lot of pressure to kill themselves. It can be the kid who doesn't get into the certain school, the salaryman who is put into a rubber room because he sucks at his job, etc.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 02, 2014 12:00 PM (/Crba)

197 @169 Not sure if it was a Glock. The trigger and chambered round rule still applies.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:01 PM (sOtz/)

198
**A tiny, tiny part of me feels like there but for the grace of God go I. The rest feels that if you cannot handle your weapon in such a situation, you have no business being in a position that requires that you do so.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 02, 2014 03:44 PM (VtjlW)

Or as some wag put it, "most cops couldn't hit the broad side of the SS Norway with a bazooka at 10 paces".

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 02, 2014 12:01 PM (TIIx5)

199 Bannion, I'll keep the baseplate at my place, if you'll hold the tube Posted by: Jean at January 02, 2014 03:59 PM (4JkHl) Just to be clearÂ….that's NOT a euphemism, right?

Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 02, 2014 12:01 PM (yz6yg)

200 It is often noted people worry more about things they would be guilty of. Therefore I believe we should make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

Posted by: Karl at January 02, 2014 12:01 PM (508Jy)

201 One of the stupid arguments they make is "why are you so scared that you have to carry a gun?"

Same with seat belts, why you so scared you need to put your seat belt on....

Posted by: zipline Bob at January 02, 2014 12:01 PM (q+zA9)

202 Glock? True fact: When holstering a weapon, clothing can get into the trigger guard. As you press the weapon into place, it can depress the trigger. Other true fact: That a Glock lacks an external hammer, you have no hint this is happening until it goes *bang*. When holstering a Glock that was just pointed at a perp with the finger on trigger, AND safety on said trigger, the action of reholstering can cause the trigger finger to be moved rearwards towards the grip frame. As said safety is already depressed due to finger on the trigger, the gun is in prime firing mode.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (t+DWU)

203 For a properly trained gun owner who religiously follows the NRA's rules of gun safety, a gun is no more dangerous than a hammer.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (7ObY1)

204 Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 03:58 PM (fwARV)

But eventually enough of the like minded get together and decide that it would be better if they didn't HAVE to make that choice.

And besides there's a gun in the house next door or down the street and stopping them from having one is just about as logical as the reasons given for not having one in your own house.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (LSDdO)

205 182 zombie - So..., have you eliminated all of the sharp/pointed objects from your home? Posted by: Mike Hammer I didn't eliminate them, but I did diminuate their number and safety-ize their accessibility. It's a matter of degree, not some cut-and-dried issue. Of course I could choke to death on a cotton ball, or jam a Q-tip in my ear and puncture my brian and die. Anything is possible. But most non-gun fatal accidents take a lot of more effort and a lot more unlikely coincidences that do fatal gun accidents, which can happen in an instant, which one gesture, or one curious toddler.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (+cx5n)

206 "Most people in Houston want to give Case Keenum a chance. I agree. Posted by: polynikes" Not this one. Case had his chance. I want Bridgewater.

Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (080XV)

207 Or as some wag put it, "most cops couldn't hit the broad side of the SS Norway with a bazooka at 10 paces". --- A few years ago, one guy took a shot and killed two people with one bullet. These cops took 15 shots each and couldn't hit the SUBURBAN!

Posted by: Ron White at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (/Crba)

208

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n)

Where do you keep your eggs and milk? Do you have a furnance? I must have had over five fires in my years in insurance caused by refrigerators and also unfortunately a number of carbon monoxide deaths caused by faulty furnances. To each his own.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (m2CN7)

209 "'Gun accidents' do happen all the time, and they are avoidable, simply by not being around guns."

In my extended family, there are several firearms that have been continuously owned by the family since the pre-Civil War era, and not one of those weapons over hundreds of years of ownership has ever resulted in a "gun accident".

I guess we've been doing it wrong.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 02, 2014 12:02 PM (gqT4g)

210 The data I see shows Japan with almost 2x the suicide rate of America, not 3x. WHO says Japan is 21/100K and US is 12/100K. So it's even lower than 2x.

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 02, 2014 12:03 PM (45N4D)

211 A gun is no more like a bomb than a gas stove is. Or an electrical line. In fact, both of those are more like bombs. The gun requires human interaction to do damage, the others could "just go off" at any time.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 02, 2014 12:03 PM (ZshNr)

212 208 One of the stupid arguments they make is "why are you so scared that you have to carry a gun?" Same with seat belts, why you so scared you need to put your seat belt on....

Posted by: zipline Bob at January 02, 2014 04:01 PM (q+zA9)

Or, "why are you so scared you lock your house when you go out?"

Posted by: tubal the bad at January 02, 2014 12:03 PM (YEQ2h)

213 Anyway, that's how I personally feel about having guns in my home. Too much potential for danger, for very little potential benefit. Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n) Hide posts from (+cx5n) I support your right to choose, but what you did to that analogy should result in condemnation by Amnesty International.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 12:04 PM (qyfb5)

214

When you disarm the law abiding citizens, gun crime increases , due to the lack of a secondary (often primary, actually) deterrent to committing a crime with a gun. Removing firearms from the law abiding citizen provides an extra level of security for the criminal, since there is a much lower chance that their victim can respond with deadly force.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 02, 2014 12:04 PM (O3C36)

215 In Japan, the new thing is sealing themselves in their cars and gassing themselves with chlorine gas. WTF? CO is manufactured by the car, are these electric vehicles? No, they mix common household materials to do it. Clorox & ammonia.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 02, 2014 12:04 PM (t+DWU)

216 Re: zombie' s comment The right to own a gun does not preclude the choice to NOT own a gun. To each his or her own.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 12:04 PM (g4TxM)

217 172>> Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha...errr, ummm, well... alrighty then.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at January 02, 2014 12:05 PM (60Vyp)

218 No, they mix common household materials to do it. Clorox & ammonia. --- These are handy to have when improvising anti-personnel weapons.

Posted by: Frank Castle at January 02, 2014 12:06 PM (/Crba)

219 Zombie doesn't want a gun, so he doesn't buy one. Liberals don't want a gun, so they try to ban them. Posted by: Washington ----------- A very good point..., my only problem is the implicit characterization of gun owners as irrational risk takers. A responsible, principled, gun owner would find it easy to mock Zombie, but I have not done so, I have merely asked if other objects which might be used to cause harm have been removed from the home. We all know that stabbings are common.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 02, 2014 12:06 PM (aDwsi)

220 >>>Question: Would you buy such a product?

My house is piped with natural gas. And 120/220VAC electricity. And I have an Oxy-Acetylene torch and Propane tanks, and an Arc-Welder, air compressor, a circular saw and on and on and on. So yes. If the objective benefits of having it, outweighed the risks, I would. I wouldn't get unnecessarily sentimental or fearful and realize risks are everywhere, and the most risky object I own is parked in my driveway and used..every..day.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 12:06 PM (0q2P7)

221 208 One of the stupid arguments they make is "why are you so scared that you have to carry a gun?" Same with seat belts, why you so scared you need to put your seat belt on....

Posted by: zipline Bob at January 02, 2014 04:01 PM (q+zA9)

Another good answer would be: There are monsters out there and protecting one and ones, is one's responsibility. One should act accordingly.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 02, 2014 12:06 PM (BZAd3)

222 The right to own a gun does not preclude the choice to NOT own a gun. To each his or her own.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 04:04 PM (g4TxM)

----

Fine and well. But then check the lecturing at the door.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 12:06 PM (nELVU)

223 Cultural habits are strongly influence by genetics. The Japanese are smarter and more introverted than most other ethnic groups because they have genes for being smart and introverted. Personality traits are mostly inherited.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 02, 2014 12:07 PM (ZPrif)

224 Chlorine is nasty stuff. Can't imagine that as a choice. Of course, we're not talking rational choice here...

Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 02, 2014 12:08 PM (aDwsi)

225 @172 zombie Fires involving ammo, theft, or meddling kids are my concerns. Guns are not like buried explosives, though my area has that also. "Pinecastle Jeep Range"

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:08 PM (sOtz/)

226 So, er, also in zombie's household-safety calculus, I live in basically the same place that zombie does. I have for decades now. I'm a native.

Several times during that residency, I have had to deal with criminals with clearly evident ill intent, breaking in during the dark lonely hours, and I've called for the police to come help, and had the cops BLOODY WELL NOT SHOW UP on any sort of a useful time frame. 9-1-1 should be renamed "Dial-A-Prayer" for all the good it has done me when I most needed it to provide assistance.

In all of those instances, I have been forced to drive away the crims myself with a noisy visible show of preparedness to use lethal force against them.

If I had not had that capability to deter thugs with a gun? I might be dead by now. Factor that into the "household safety" statistics involving firearms.

Posted by: torquewrench at January 02, 2014 12:08 PM (gqT4g)

227 But most non-gun fatal accidents take a lot of more effort and a lot more unlikely coincidences that do fatal gun accidents, which can happen in an instant, which one gesture, or one curious toddler. I love you zombie, and I respect your decision, though I disagree. I believe one can mitigate the risks with a weapon as well. Rather than "hiding" the weapon, keep it on your person if it's out of the safe. Obey the four gun laws of safety. Teach your kids about guns and how to handle them (see the NRAs Eddie Eagle on this topic).

Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 02, 2014 12:08 PM (45N4D)

228 191 You know, I'm not going to pick on zombie. What just got enunciated is the precise difference between liberals and conservatives. Zombie doesn't want a gun, so he doesn't buy one. Liberals don't want a gun, so they try to ban them. Posted by: Washington Nearsider at January 02, 2014 03:58 PM (fwARV) ------------------------------------ BINGO!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 02, 2014 12:09 PM (dfYL9)

229

Zombie,

I respect your views on guns. If that works for you, that is OK. I appreciate your respect of my rights, and I will respect your wishes about your abode.

For many people it is psychological. Just like my fear of heights. Even though I know the bridge will not fall, I still get a sinking feeling in my guts when I cross a big bridge. But the bridge does not fall, and I cross safely. And the next time I cross the bridge I feel the same way. It is pychological.

And as long as you do not project your fears onto me, I will not project my fears upon you.

Posted by: rd at January 02, 2014 12:10 PM (D+lxs)

230 230 Cultural habits are strongly influence by genetics. The Japanese are smarter and more introverted than most other ethnic groups because they have genes for being smart and introverted. Personality traits are mostly inherited. I doubt it is genetic. Their society is designed to crush individuality. "The nail that sticks out gets the hammer." Most East Asian societies are like that. I don't think American Japanese have particularly high suicide rates but I could be mistaken.

Posted by: Naes1984 at January 02, 2014 12:10 PM (zeV2E)

231 There are monsters out there and protecting one and ones, is one's responsibility. One should act accordingly.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 02, 2014 04:06 PM (BZAd3)

and if you rape my wife, I'd vote no death penalty for you..

Posted by: Mikael Dukakis at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (q+zA9)

232 Correct Bannion, even I wouldn't brag about an 81mm diameter, maybe 60mm if I'm drunk

Posted by: Jean at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (4JkHl)

233 What about a bunch of bananas? Posted by: Monty Python's Flying Circus Do you have a dog? Do you have knives? Do you have natural gas? Do you have oil heat? Do you have electricity? Do you drive a car? Do you understand my point? Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) I understand your point. And I also understand that it is a weak point that misses my point. It's a faulty slippery-slop argument that too many gun-owners rely on. As I said in comment #212 above, any object in existence can cause an accident. Cotton balls, Q-tips, dogs, knives, whatever. But two key points: 1. All of those object serve other functions aside from causing one-in-a-million fatal accidents. And, admitting that they possess some element of "danger," it's my judgement call that in their cases the risk is "worth it." I am in fact aware of those risks, and I try to minimize them as well. I'm not happy about them, but life is risk. 2. Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose but to inflict violence or death. And the only way to truly minimize the risk is to make the guns essentially inaccessible -- which renders their ownership purposeless. The Second Amendment allows the ownership of guns. I support the Second Amendment. I support YOUR right to own a gun if you want, and don't badger you not to. The Second Amendment doe NOT compel the ownership of guns. You should therefore also support the Second Amendment, and my right to avoid having a gun in my home for my own personal reasons, however irrational you may perceive them.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (+cx5n)

234 182

I feel you Zombie, I'm also uncomfortble with guns, thus don't have them. That is my choice. But I would never hinder someone else from having one because of my discomfort.

I finally went shooting, though, to help get over that fear. My coworker took me to a local shooting range, he has an arsenal, got to try out a lot of different varieties. It was actually a lot of fun! The sniper rifle was like buttah, very smooth with little kickback. I liked the revolver best, if I eventually got one would get one of those.

These were some of what I tried out (don't give me too hard a time for butchering the terminology, lol, I'm still learning):
Armalite AR50 .5 caliber
.38 or .5 Remington 700
AR15 semiautomatic
Irkutsk?
1927 replica tommygun, just like Al Capone's
.45 caliber 1911 browning
.38 special revolver
Walter PPK, like James Bond used

Posted by: LizLem at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (BF+2f)

235 Ace, you are forgetting the biggest lie the gun control people use. They call gun death's, gun "violence" why? TWO THIRDS of all gun deaths in the country are suicides, NOT violent homicides as the gun control people would have you believe. Self inflected gun deaths are not a "threat" to anyone, but the guy killing himself. Calling those deaths "violence" implies someone shot someone else. It's a fucking lie.

Posted by: Nip Sip at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (0FSuD)

236 OT: The Bee Gees and Pink Floyd as you've never seen them before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PJkj_Qyd4s

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 02, 2014 12:11 PM (XUKZU)

237 I knew I'd find you all here. Because I'm smart.

Posted by: Gloria J. Browne-Marshall at January 02, 2014 12:12 PM (wAQA5)

238 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 04:06 PM Today I was just thinking "how am I going to explain to my little boy that guns are tools but can be dangerous if mishandled." Then the thought occurred to me that he will be at a greater danger at a younger age from half the shit in my workshop, so I better worry about all that stuff first.

Posted by: traye at January 02, 2014 12:13 PM (Woem8)

239 191 You know, I'm not going to pick on zombie. What just got enunciated is the precise difference between liberals and conservatives. Zombie doesn't want a gun, so he doesn't buy one. Liberals don't want a gun, so they try to ban them. Posted by: Washington Nearsider Thank you. Everyone please cogitate on this comment.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:13 PM (+cx5n)

240 212 182 zombie - So..., have you eliminated all of the sharp/pointed objects from your home? Posted by: Mike Hammer I didn't eliminate them, but I did diminuate their number and safety-ize their accessibility. It's a matter of degree, not some cut-and-dried issue. Of course I could choke to death on a cotton ball, or jam a Q-tip in my ear and puncture my brian and die. Anything is possible. But most non-gun fatal accidents take a lot of more effort and a lot more unlikely coincidences that do fatal gun accidents, which can happen in an instant, which one gesture, or one curious toddler. Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:02 PM (+cx5n) Here, have a couple of cotton balls & a box of Qtips

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 02, 2014 12:14 PM (HVff2)

241 You should therefore also support the Second Amendment, and my right to avoid having a gun in my home for my own personal reasons, however irrational you may perceive them.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:11 PM (+cx5n)

I assume you do not let your kids play at their friends home whose parents may own guns?

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:14 PM (m2CN7)

242 244 I knew I'd find you all here. Because I'm smart. Posted by: Gloria J. Browne-Marshall at January 02, 2014 04:12 PM (wAQA5) You get rid of that 12 inches of white we sent you yet? Better hurry, it will freeze.

Posted by: White Southern Racists at January 02, 2014 12:15 PM (0FSuD)

243 Fine and well. But then check the lecturing at the door. Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 04:06 PM (nELVU) **** I must be reading it differently from you. I didn't see any lecturing.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 12:15 PM (g4TxM)

244 "A generally lawful citizen will have a marginally higher rate of committing an act of gun violence (especially suicide) simply because of the ease of access to the weapon. Even law-abiding people will have a small increase in opportunistic gun violence, given ease of access." This is erroneous. Very erroneous. First and foremost, it follows the flawed logic of looking at 'gun violence' which also includes legally justified use of guns. It is the favorite red herring of anti-gunners and you allow them to frame the argument when you go down that path, Ace. The issue that is actually of vital importance is the rate of violent crime. And the anti-gun people will do nearly anything to stop you from looking at those numbers. The truth is that the 10 states with the most restrictive gun laws have a much higher aggregate rate of per capita violent crime than the 10 states with the most loose gun laws.

Posted by: Name at January 02, 2014 12:15 PM (kdYPC)

245 I have toddlers in my home on a regular basis. When they are here, it is my solemn duty to protect them. That's one reason I have firearms. At least I did until that canoe trip.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:15 PM (P6QsQ)

246 Blast it, everyone is in the Conan thread now...

Posted by: LizLem at January 02, 2014 12:16 PM (BF+2f)

247 At least I did until that canoe trip. Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 04:15 PM (P6QsQ) He he, Bubba found them, and he's not giving them back.

Posted by: White Southern Racists at January 02, 2014 12:17 PM (0FSuD)

248 But the point regarding Q-tips is one we should all pay heed to. My mom always told me to never put anything smaller than my elbow in my ear. I was never that flexible.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 02, 2014 12:17 PM (g4TxM)

249 >> or jam a Q-tip in my ear and puncture my brian and die.<<

You certainly have all the right in the world to not own a gun.

To me, though, it's a no-brainer as it is the most effective/efficient way to protect myself and my family. We are all well-trained and wearing a gun is second nature to us.

In all probability, the guy that breaks into my home will be armed with something more than a Q -Tip.

Even more than that, it gives me comfort to know that any agent of government understands that I, or any other American in most situations, may be armed and willing to resist

Posted by: Albie Damned at January 02, 2014 12:18 PM (cGaCp)

250 252 I have toddlers in my home on a regular basis. When they are here, it is my solemn duty to protect them. That's one reason I have firearms. At least I did until that canoe trip. Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 04:15 PM (P6QsQ) Must be nice to have unfrozen rivers Grammie ::-)

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 02, 2014 12:18 PM (HVff2)

251 One of my coworkers, a generally sane and libertarian individual, is convinced that guns, in and of themselves, are dangerous. At one point I had to ask him what other inanimate objects he fears are out to get him. Perhaps his kitchen knives will suddenly go all stabby.

Posted by: toby928© Person of Pallor at January 02, 2014 12:18 PM (QupBk)

252 you're being pedantic Substitute any of the "risks of living" here. Live in a big city, RIDE (better??) in a vehicle, Live in a Tornado/Earthquake/Flood zone??? Lotsa bacteria and viruses out there. How about breathe??? Posted by: fixerupper And what is wrong with attempting to minimize necessary risks, and eliminate unnecessary risks? Just because the concept of risks exists, I am expected to throw all caution to the wind? Yes, life is full of risk. Many risks are unavoidable, or at least can only be avoided at great inconvenience. But it is perfectly rational behavior to minimize risks where possible. How can this be criticized? I am not telling you what to do, nor poo-pooing your lifestyle decisions. What purpose is served by badgering me to buy a gun I don't want?

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:18 PM (+cx5n)

253 /holds up hand Can somebody please tell me what the hell was so objectionable about what zombie said? 'cause I'm missing the point of this back-and-forth. I mean, it's like we don't agree people shouldn't have to buy things they don't want...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 12:19 PM (naUcP)

254 Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:13 PM (+cx5n)

It's not that you don't own one or don't want one in your house.

It was the manner of your relating that information that set me off.

It seemed to me to be the way typical liberals form their lectures to the uninformed or lackwits that they're talking at.

It was using a bad analogy to bolster the validity of your opinion with some degree of rationality that obviously others don't have.

It was framed as if we're cretins who need to have it spelled out to us that guns are bad. M'kay?

It wasn't worthy of you.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 12:19 PM (LSDdO)

255 257 The canoe trip occurred during the summer. I remember summer. I think it was on August 8th this year.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:20 PM (P6QsQ)

256 @240 There are shooting sports in the Olympics. I see guns as home invasion first aid kits. Sometimes mine get dusty, but I make sure I remember how to use them if necessary. You forgot the most important use: scare the hell out of thugs without firing a shot. I ran off a guy threatening to kill his girlfriend twice, different guys. Cops arrived promptly an hour and a half later in one case.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:20 PM (sOtz/)

257 Zombie I was a victim once. Never again. Not voluntarily at least.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:21 PM (P6QsQ)

258 My father, a WWII USMC Vet and a 36 year sheriffs officer vet here in NJ taught myself and my brothers how to SAFELY handle firearms from a young age. My dad had his service revolver and two privately owned handguns in the house that he kept locked and hidden but he showed us where they were in case they were ever needed. I never, in all the years of handling them, had the urge to go out and commit a crime and harm someone with them. If anything I learned great respect and care in handling and owning a firearm. Good qualities, not bad ones. The leftists see good, legal firearm owning Americans as a direct threat and a wall to their plans to subject us to their wills. That's why they keep hammering away at the 2nd amendment as an unarmed people are easily enslaved by those who hunger for power and control.

Posted by: Cycomiko66 at January 02, 2014 12:21 PM (x/MmU)

259

Gun owner tips

1. Never leave your firearm in your child's crib

2. Never use the barrel to turn light switches off and on.

3. When storing your pistol under your pillow when you go to bed, make sure it is pointed at your feet so any accidental discharge will not richocet off the head board.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:22 PM (m2CN7)

260 215 Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 03:54 PM (+cx5n) Where do you keep your eggs and milk? Do you have a furnance? I must have had overfive fires in my years in insurance caused by refrigerators and also unfortunately a number of carbon monoxide deaths caused by faulty furnances. To each his own. Posted by: polynikes You know, you just made a brilliant point. Because one type of accident is possible in my home, I should just live without any safety precautions whatsoever and just have crazy dangerous things and situations around me at all times, because hey, we're all going to die, so why fight it. Brilliant.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:22 PM (+cx5n)

261 Skunks, coyotes, bears, badgers, cougars, wolves, porcupines, opossums, raccoons, rats, feral cats or dogs, etc., rabid or normal... Any of these creatures wandering thru your area? Do you have pets or kids you'd like to protect?

You better have a firearm.

Posted by: Fritz at January 02, 2014 12:23 PM (UzPAd)

262 My daughter makes the same types of arguments as zombie, so I kind of know where that comes from and am not going to judge. I think it's a faulty argument. But it's zombie's right to hold it. I hope and pray he/she will never have reason to regret it.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:25 PM (P6QsQ)

263 223 Re: zombie' s comment The right to own a gun does not preclude the choice to NOT own a gun. To each his or her own. Posted by: Seamus Muldoon THANK YOU! Why is this so difficult for people to understand? By harassing NON-gun owners, we are crossing the line from "laissez-faire" to "ostracizing people unlike us."

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:25 PM (+cx5n)

264 Because one type of accident is possible in my home, I should just live without any safety precautions whatsoever and just have crazy dangerous things and situations around me at all times, because hey, we're all going to die, so why fight it.

Brilliant.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:22 PM (+cx5n)

You're the one who equated having a bomb under the house with a button to blow the house up to having a gun. Who is the sarcastic brilliant one here?

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:27 PM (m2CN7)

265 What purpose is served by badgering me to buy a gun I don't want? Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:18 PM (+cx5n) Hide posts from (+cx5n) You're lashing out in defense against an argument that wasn't made against you (here and now). Pretty much when you come into a room with your fists up, there's gonna be some kind of disagreement.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 12:27 PM (qyfb5)

266 There's so much logically wrong with that analogy, I can't even begin to fisk it. To each his own. Posted by: Sean Bannion at January 02, 2014 03:58 PM (yz6yg) You have taken the words out of my mouth.

Posted by: D-Lamp at January 02, 2014 12:27 PM (bb5+k)

267 What purpose is served by badgering me to buy a gun I don't want?

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:18 PM (+cx5n)

----

Holy mother of all strawmen. Go and quote anybody here who did that.

Then read what Clinger wrote at #261. He is far more eloquent.... and patient.... than I.

Posted by: fixerupper at January 02, 2014 12:28 PM (nELVU)

268 My wife's theory on guns is a lot like Zombie's. They're secret time bombs that could kill us all at any time. I try to explain the physical impossibility of an unloaded weapon firing, but I can tell she's still skeptical. Bullet elves, I guess.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 02, 2014 12:28 PM (ZshNr)

269 IMO no one should be in a position to not be able to protect themselves or their loved ones.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:28 PM (P6QsQ)

270 @267 Most gun accidents involve stupid human agency. Work to prevent that rather than getting totemistic about guns as avenging angels of death or something. Not that I am saying you should have one. I just do not see guns the same way.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:30 PM (sOtz/)

271 ignore the blah blah that disproves their mania is the whole point of the liberal pathology.

Posted by: oejay44cday at January 02, 2014 12:30 PM (72j65)

272 I just had a thought that don't know why I've never considered before. My mom carried a gun (nothing legal about it except the absolute right to self defense) every day of her life. Even when I was little, I knew she had one in her purse (the story was often told of as a five year old my informing the Fla highway patrol of my mom's gun when she got a speeding ticket), but I never sought out her gun. Even as a kid I knew why she had it.

Posted by: traye at January 02, 2014 12:31 PM (Woem8)

273 >>>Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose but to inflict violence or death.

Ehh. You could say the same thing about a bow. Or a sling. Or even a police baton. If you are going to use a weapon for defense of the home, you do need to put some thought into how it's going to be secured and what state of readiness it will be in. To say that you *can't* make the weapon both adequately secure and adequately ready is really the assertion of someone who has never seriously considered the question.

What a gun does is propel small projectiles at very high speeds very accurately. Some projectiles are more dangerous than others. Your application depends on you. Yes violence and death is one such application, a very common one, and the one to which many guns are designed. Target shooting, is another to which many guns are designed. Hunting is violence related however, most hunting weapons would be a poor choice for self defense.

Yes a gun is dangerous. Yes you can logically conclude that the risks outweigh the benefits of owning one especially if you are uninterested in gun related sports and lack confidence to handle or secure a self defense weapon. However your characterization of them as "For violence only" is wholly inaccurate.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 12:33 PM (0q2P7)

274 "One of the odd things about Progressives' Gun Panic is their apparent belief that normal, law-abiding citizens will just go Kill-Crazy if they have a gun." It's what we've been taught all our lives on TV and in movies. The gun is a symbol of imminent violence. People think in images. That's hard to unseat.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at January 02, 2014 12:33 PM (Z2DlB)

275 The whole gun control thing is not about crime. It's to address the balance of power between our government and well armed citizens.

Posted by: Havedash at January 02, 2014 12:34 PM (gvqyH)

276 zombie, I agree with Washington Nearsider, and you state your position well. Your remark about one instant or one curious toddler is absolutely right. But I have to point out this flaw in your analogy: There is no scenario I can imagine where I use your buried bomb to save my loved ones from someone intent on doing them harm. There are numerous scenarios I can imagine where I, using my weapon and my training to do so. It is both quite unlikely and quite possible.

Posted by: JPS at January 02, 2014 12:34 PM (DbqUU)

277 yeah, there are tons of BS theories that the left gloms on to ban guns. Kids will shoot themselves...well, no, kids have had access to guns forever in this country. the same # of kids shooting themselves is prob equal to kids drowning themselves or whatever.

Posted by: oejay44cday at January 02, 2014 12:34 PM (72j65)

278 The Muslim invaders of India according to KS Lal killed 90,000,000 people with swords. If a gun ban actually worked, like the UK we would have kicks for knives program.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:35 PM (4xKfP)

279 227 >>>Question: Would you buy such a product? My house is piped with natural gas. And 120/220VAC electricity. And I have an Oxy-Acetylene torch and Propane tanks, and an Arc-Welder, air compressor, a circular saw and on and on and on. So yes. If the objective benefits of having it, outweighed the risks, I would. I wouldn't get unnecessarily sentimental or fearful and realize risks are everywhere, and the most risky object I own is parked in my driveway and used..every..day. Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. See, this is a good comment to note: I would NEVER live in a house with a propane tank, just as I would never live in a house with a gun. For the exact same reason: a potential for catastrophic risk. The issue for me is not about the gunliness of guns, but rather the notion of risk. I will not keep boxes of poison in my house. I will not live with a Propane tank. I will not keep a gun in my home. I will not live in a bad neighborhood. Etc. etc. etc. I see this as completely ration aldecision-making. And it's just about me. I am making NO COMMENTARY on ANYONE ELSE's decisions. You are you. I am me. Each person is comfortable with their own level of risk. Live as you choose, I am perfectly OK with you settling on your own lifestyle. I AM NOT CRITIQUING YOUR RISK-COMFORT-LEVEL. What do people here gain from critiquing my risk-comfort-level? Do anybody here know how many curious toddlers I have in my house? No. Do anybody here know how many absent-minded Alzheimer's sufferers I have in my house? No. Do anybody here know how many drunken teenage parties happen in my house? No. Does anybody here know how many suicidal people live in my house? No. Does anybody here know how many accident-prone idiots live in or visit my house? No. Think about it.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:36 PM (+cx5n)

280 Gaah. All that rephrasing and my #283 doesn't read like English. Short version: I agree with grannie winger, #276. Zombie, your reasoning on guns in the house is identical to my wife's.

Posted by: JPS at January 02, 2014 12:37 PM (DbqUU)

281 >>>Why is this so difficult for people to understand?
By harassing NON-gun owners

I'm not harassing you. I'm not saying you should own a gun. I'm just saying your characterization of guns is inaccurate.

Specifically when you asked the polemic question

"Question: Would you buy such a product? Would you want to have floating around in your possessions a button that, if pressed, could blow up your house and/or kill or injure you or your family?

Of course not. No sane person would. "

You invited rebuke of your thesis.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 12:38 PM (0q2P7)

282 zombie the question is......do you know the how manys? ////////

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl Happy 9th day of Christmas at January 02, 2014 12:40 PM (u8GsB)

283

Question: Would you buy such a product? Would you want to have floating around in your possessions a button that, if pressed, could blow up your house and/or kill or injure you or your family?

Of course not. No sane person would.

zombie you wrote the above. It wasn't just about you. You started it and now you are denying you started something and then made it worse by alleging falsely people were badgering you to have a gun.

You've been going to too many liberal protests. Its rubbing off.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:41 PM (m2CN7)

284 Zombie Honest question here. What is your emergency plan in case someone breaks into your home with intent to do you harm?

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:41 PM (P6QsQ)

285 Zombie follows the Way of the Leaf.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 02, 2014 12:42 PM (LSDdO)

286 >>>And it's just about me. I am making NO COMMENTARY on ANYONE ELSE's decisions.

>>>"Question: Would you buy such a product? Would you want to have floating
around in your possessions a button that, if pressed, could blow up your
house and/or kill or injure you or your family?

Of course not. No sane person would. "

>>>Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose but to inflict violence
or death.

When you make statements about the nature of things. Most folks will assume you mean absolutely. Here let me help you form a more accurate thought.

'Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose FOR ME but to inflict violence or death. '

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 12:43 PM (0q2P7)

287 would I buy a product that would protect me from people who are trying to do me harm? duh.

Posted by: oejay44cday at January 02, 2014 12:44 PM (72j65)

288 233 So, er, also in zombie's household-safety calculus, I live in basically the same place that zombie does. I have for decades now. I'm a native. Several times during that residency, I have had to deal with criminals with clearly evident ill intent, breaking in during the dark lonely hours, and I've called for the police to come help, and had the cops BLOODY WELL NOT SHOW UP on any sort of a useful time frame. 9-1-1 should be renamed "Dial-A-Prayer" for all the good it has done me when I most needed it to provide assistance. In all of those instances, I have been forced to drive away the crims myself with a noisy visible show of preparedness to use lethal force against them. If I had not had that capability to deter thugs with a gun? I might be dead by now. Factor that into the "household safety" statistics involving firearms. Posted by: torquewrench I applaud you for that. You made a calculus of your own, and it paid off for you. Good. But even if one were to statistically prove me that having a gun is "safer" than not having a gun, have we become nanny-staters on the right, insisting that people make the "safe" choice "for their own good"? Bloomberg says, "You shouldn't drink soda. It's bad for you!" Some people here seem to be saying, "You shouldn't avoid owning a gun. Gunlessness is bad for you!" Bloombarg passed a law against sodas. Are we advocating for a law mandating gun ownership (as in Switzerland)? Until we do, I exercise my right to not own a gun. And I don't care if someone else thinks my decision is irrational. Where is the "live and let live" libertarian spirit? It goes both ways.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:44 PM (+cx5n)

289

I fully support Zombie's decision ... and urge you all to adopt the same.

Would also appreciate your address, inventory of high dollar items, and pics of your wimmens.

Posted by: ScoggDog at January 02, 2014 12:44 PM (VOgxg)

290 'Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose FOR ME but to inflict violence or death. ' If the point of a gun isn't dealing violence or death, how does it derive any usefulness at all? It sure doesn't dissuade barbarians by giving you minty fresh breath, after all.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 12:45 PM (naUcP)

291

Zombie, no knives? no hot water heater? no electrical devices in the bathrooms?

Come on...no one here is saying you must have a gun, but please don't profer nonsense scenarios where guns just "float around your home" waiting for the right opportunity to kill or injure someone.

What do you do to secure your kitchen knives so someone doesn't hurt themselves or others?

Posted by: Havedash at January 02, 2014 12:46 PM (gvqyH)

292 236 Zombie, I respect your views on guns. If that works for you, that is OK. I appreciate your respect of my rights, and I will respect your wishes about your abode. For many people it is psychological. Just like my fear of heights. Even though I know the bridge will not fall, I still get a sinking feeling in my guts when I cross a big bridge. But the bridge does not fall, and I cross safely. And the next time I cross the bridge I feel the same way. It is pychological. And as long as you do not project your fears onto me, I will not project my fears upon you. Posted by: rd Yes!!

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:46 PM (+cx5n)

293 I'd also like to remind folks that they're pounding zombie for the same kind of thinking we're allegedly trying to protect in the case of health insurance. Let that sink in for a second, then re-engage as you will.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 12:47 PM (naUcP)

294 Not only insane people own guns. I think we can now all agree on that? From that implication sprang much of the vitriol.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 02, 2014 12:49 PM (ZshNr)

295 I'd also like to remind folks that they're pounding zombie for the same kind of thinking we're allegedly trying to protect in the case of health insurance.

Let that sink in for a second, then re-engage as you will.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at January 02, 2014 04:47 PM (naUcP)

You're creating the same strawman he created. No one said zombie's opinion not to own a gun was wrong. In fact most pointed out that its his choice. The problem and thus the pounding was his analogy and then his statement that anyone that chose this path would be insane. Essentially calling people who chose to have guns in the house, insane.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 12:51 PM (m2CN7)

296 @266 Guns are not feminine hygene products or hammers in a pinch.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 12:51 PM (4xKfP)

297 248 I assume you do not let your kids play at their friends home whose parents may own guns? Posted by: polynikes You would be correct. That circumstance has not yet arisen, to my knowledge. However, if it did arise, I would either try ahead of time to ensure the absolute inacessibility of the guns, or strongly discourage visiting that home.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:51 PM (+cx5n)

298 Where is the "live and let live" libertarian spirit? It goes both ways. Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:44 PM (+cx5n) Hide posts from (+cx5n) Did I completely miss the spot where someone tried to force you to buy a gun? I even went back and looked. The *DISCUSSION* has been about attempts to prevent others from arming themselves. That's where we started. That's the context. You are normally a very calm, rational person, but you seem to be having a Strawman Day. OF COURSE you have a right to not own a gun. You don't even have to explain it. But when you explain it with fallacies, tortured analogies and common slogans used to beat gun owners over the head (like "whose only purpose is to kill!!!!"), yes, you will get pushback on those details. Seriously, who here tried to force you to buy a gun?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 12:52 PM (qyfb5)

299 260 /holds up hand Can somebody please tell me what the hell was so objectionable about what zombie said? 'cause I'm missing the point of this back-and-forth. I mean, it's like we don't agree people shouldn't have to buy things they don't want... Posted by: Brother Cavil Amen!

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:54 PM (+cx5n)

300 >>>If the point of a gun isn't dealing violence or death, how does it derive any usefulness at all?

If you enjoy accuracy sports, a gun is very useful in participating in them. Some people enjoy accuracy sports for their sake alone. I know plenty of skeet shooters whom would never level their gun on a live bird. They just enjoy shooting at clay frisbees. Just like most of the archers you see at an archery range don't shoot bows and don't own bows for the intent of doing violence with them, or their capability to do such. Hunters spend enough time with their bow to confidently place an arrow in 6" at 50 yds and keep the accessories compact and manageable. The guys with the massively tricked out bows who are at the range shooting arrows every day will probably never even knock a field tip, let alone a full on broadhead just love the challenge of accuracy.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 02, 2014 12:55 PM (0q2P7)

301 I think what was objectionable was comparing owning a gun to a bomb ready to go off, and making the inference that anyone who would do either as insane.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:57 PM (P6QsQ)

302 It was using a bad analogy to bolster the validity of your opinion with some degree of rationality that obviously others don't have. It was framed as if we're cretins who need to have it spelled out to us that guns are bad. M'kay? It wasn't worthy of you. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) I said very clearly in my original comment (bolded for emphasis): "Anyway, that's how I personally feel about having guns in my home. Too much potential for danger, for very little potential benefit. This of course is just my opinion for just me. I support the Constitution and that includes the Second Amendment. " TO ME, in MY OPINION, having guns around the home involves an element of danger. That's what I was saying.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 12:58 PM (+cx5n)

303 Also I suck at grammar and syntax.

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 12:59 PM (P6QsQ)

304 @308 Yup. No problem with anything else. People who have real concerns about guns causing strong emotions should not own them. Except in polar bear country. Then you have to have one. Or Newark. I kid. That would be illegal. Just never go to Newark.

Posted by: Beagle at January 02, 2014 01:01 PM (4xKfP)

305 I'm still trying to figure out who tried to force Zombie to buy a gun.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at January 02, 2014 01:03 PM (qyfb5)

306

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 04:58 PM (+cx5n)

Yes it was your personal opinion that owning a gun was like owning a bomb under your house and no sane person would.

No that wasn't provocative at all. Bless your heart.

Posted by: polynikes at January 02, 2014 01:05 PM (m2CN7)

307 Zombie - You know we will love you. Specially me. Just a touchy topic for us all. Tea?

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 01:10 PM (P6QsQ)

308 Supposed to read we all love you. Gah I suck today

Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 01:10 PM (P6QsQ)

309 291 Zombie Honest question here. What is your emergency plan in case someone breaks into your home with intent to do you harm? Posted by: grammie winger First step of the plan, which I have already enacted, is to go to great lengths to live in an area where there are almost zero break-ins. That plan has paid off well, as I have never suffered a crime like that. Second step, should a break-in ever occur, to flee the domicile ASAP. Third step, should those two fail, is to allow the thief to take whatever he wants. Fourth step, if it escalates, is to defend myself using my wits. Fifth step, in a worst-worst-worst case scenario, is to physically defend myself with some weapon at hand that is not a gun. Yeah, that last step could be improved with a gun, but all the other aspects of my life aside from that worst-worst-worst case scenario would be made more risky with the gun. It's a trade-off I decided to make.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 01:22 PM (+cx5n)

310 When you make statements about the nature of things. Most folks will assume you mean absolutely. Here let me help you form a more accurate thought. 'Guns, on the other hand, serve no other purpose FOR ME but to inflict violence or death. ' Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. Well, sorry that I didn't append "FOR ME" to every phrase of every sentence. I thought that appending the "FOR ME" notion to the end of my comment, and stating that it applied to my entire comment, was sufficient. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 01:24 PM (+cx5n)

311 308 I think what was objectionable was comparing owning a gun to a bomb ready to go off, and making the inference that anyone who would do either as insane. Posted by: grammie winger That analogy outlined MY way of conceiving the issue. I concluded the analogy by saying that "That's just how I feel for myself." I also then stated that I supported the Second Amendment and anyone else's right to own guns. I have stated repeatedly that I am not impugning anyone else's safety/lifestyle calculations.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 01:30 PM (+cx5n)

312 312 I'm still trying to figure out who tried to force Zombie to buy a gun. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith Badger me into buying a gun. Or, at a minimum, strongly encouraging me to get a gun by mocking or poo-pooing my reasons for not having one. "Force" in the sense of arm-twisting and social pressure. I see plenty of that.

Posted by: zombie at January 02, 2014 01:34 PM (+cx5n)

313

97 Barbra Streisand...*twitch* ...that which is seen...

86 I happen to own several guns (all but one inherited from my Dad and husband), but, I am the least likely person on the planet to use them to kill someone. I have a tough time killing bugs, so people are pretty safe. But owning a gun safe full of inert metal makes me a crazed felon-in-waiting.

That's because you're not listening to their little voices. They only want what's best for you....

Posted by: Judgmental White Person at January 02, 2014 01:54 PM (XO6WW)

314

#312 319 I AM in favor of planting a 1000-lb bomb under zombie's house, though... or did I miss something....?

Posted by: Judgmental White Person at January 02, 2014 01:56 PM (XO6WW)

315

#316 Defend yourself from a meth-fueled burglar or crackhead "using your wits."

Do us all a favor and conceal a hidden camera with audio in your house, would you? I'd pay to see THAT video...

Posted by: Judgmental White Person at January 02, 2014 01:58 PM (XO6WW)

316 Amen. 'Progressivly Regressive' are the real danger................

Posted by: ANGLICO at January 02, 2014 02:10 PM (3yNss)

317 Zombie, first of all, I love you for what you do to inform America what happens in Sodom/Gomorra. If you choose not to have a gun in your house (even close to San Francisco), that's ok by me. I live in Texas, actually the best part of Texas in my opinion). I have guns to protect my family, myself, my property, and the chance victim out there who needs such protection. I take responsibility for providing my own protection. Hopefully, you will never be forced to be responsible for your own safety. I consider that a hell of a risk, one I'm not willing to take. But then, I'm one of the approximately 8% of Americans who enlisted, re-enlisted, or extended in the U.S. military. Yeah, I know. A doofus.

Posted by: Erowmero at January 02, 2014 03:16 PM (OONaw)

318 314 Zombie - You know we will love you. Specially me. Just a touchy topic for us all. Tea? Posted by: grammie winger at January 02, 2014 05:10 PM (P6QsQ) LOOK OUT ZOMBIE! Grammie winger WILL love you! Better get a gun to protect yourself!

j/k For my part, I respect your right not to have a gun if you don't want one, and wouldn't dream of trying to convince you otherwise. I will note, however, that I as I was reading your original post, before I got to the name, I was rolling my eyes, it was so full of typical gun grabber shibboleths. "A gun can only be used for violence!". "It's like having a bomb under your house!". "You'd have to be insane to do that!". All of it was typical of someone irrationally afraid of guns (as opposed to being rationally wary to guns, which everyone should be). I thought we had gotten a troll. I was surprised when I saw that it was you (I'm assuming it is, I didn't check the hash). You're a well known and respected poster, something of an anonymous celebrity on our side with your fearless reporting and documentation of prog insanity, and to see you posting such straw men and frankly stupid analogies was jarring. I'll admit, my first reaction was "Wait a minute, zombie is smarter than that, she probably just doesn't realize that she's inadvertently making a stupid comparison, let me point that out so she can clarify herself". It was kind of like getting invited to a dinner with Zombie Reagan and having him greet you with "Boy, I sure screwed up by not raising taxes when I got elected in '80". All that being said, on one point you are 100% correct. TRTKABA absolutely MUST include your right to chose not to. I just wish your reasoning had been a little more.....logical.

Posted by: Weirddave at January 02, 2014 04:06 PM (N/cFh)

319 The only restriction I'd like to see on personal carry is that the prospective OCP or CCP holder should demonstrate the ability to shoot straight and fast in a disciplined manner. That's not saying I'm expecting them to be an IDPA or IPSC champ (though encouraging participation in such things might not be a bad idea either), but RKBA notwithstanding, the last thing I want to see is a bunch of armed dropkicks whose response to a sudden public disturbance is the immediate drawing of a handgun and the hurried-and-hopeful deposition of a dozen or so bullets in the general direction of the aggressor.

Posted by: perturbed at January 03, 2014 05:17 AM (TXq4O)

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