January 22, 2014
— Ace Huge news. But not at all unexpected.
The shocking no longer shocks.
The media will not sit idly by while Chris Christie gets away with this. Wait, what?
Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner angrily warned the chairman of Standard & Poor's parent that the rating agency would be held accountable for its 2011 decision to strip the United States of its coveted "triple-A" rating, a new court filing shows.Harold McGraw, the chairman of McGraw-Hill Financial Inc , made the statement in a declaration filed by S&P on Monday, as it defends against the government's $5 billion fraud lawsuit over its rating practices prior to the 2008 financial crisis.
McGraw said he returned a call from Geithner on Aug. 8, 2011, three days after S&P cut the U.S. credit rating to "AA-plus," and that Geithner told him "you are accountable" for an alleged "huge error" in S&P's work.
"He said that 'you have done an enormous disservice to yourselves and to your country,'" and that S&P's conduct would be "looked at very carefully," McGraw said. "Such behavior could not occur, he said, without a response from the government."
Allah has the backstory, including the fact that S&P did include a $2 trillion error in its calculations as regard the debt and our credit-worthiness.
And what of it? People are allowed to make mistakes without "responses from the government." (S&P concedes the error but says the error does not impact their overall call on the nation's credit worthiness.)
Here's some open thread stuff.
Yesterday soothsayer brought up the Great Vowel Shift when we were talking about the evolution of the English language. So obviously that's what I spent all last night learning about.
The guy has other videos on the evolution of English. They are, if I remember the titles right, "IE to OE" (Indo-European to Old English), "Morphology of Old English," "Syntax of Old English," "Morphology of Middle English," "Syntax of Middle English," and then "Morphology of EMnE" and "Syntax of EMnE."
"EMnE" means "Early Modern English," by which they mean Shakespeare. "Middle English" means Chaucer, and Old English means Beowulf.
If you have any interest at all, I do recommend watching these videos. The first seven or so are 20 minutes long each. The last two -- on Early Modern English -- are shorter, around 13 minutes, because there's less to cover by the time we're up to Shakespeare.
grandma winger recommended The Story of English, which I haven't watched yet, but that'll be what I'm watching next.
I learned a bunch but here's what I take away from it. I'll put this below the fold. Because it's of marginal interest. Before that, though, here's a Hedgehog Eating a Dinosaur.
Okay so I was slamming Latin yesterday, due to the complexity of its many, many declensions of nouns by case and its equally many inflections of adjectives to agree with nouns. I was wondering how such a complicated system came to be. Especially because when Latin was "vulgarized" -- by mixing with other languages, to become the proto-Romance languages and then Spanish, Italian, French, and etc. -- the first thing they did was lose all that stuff.
The Political Hat suggested to me that I just had a bias against that form of marking up language because that's not the type of language I've personally learned. Latin is "synthetic" language-- it indicates relationships between nouns by changing the nouns, "declining" them, adding new endings and sometimes changing the pronunciation of interior vowels. Thus the nominative (subject) case of "man" might be Homo, but the accusative (main object) case of man would be "homum."
Or something. I don't actually know. But you get the idea. You don't have to say I did something "TO the man" in Latin because the idea of "to" would be indicated by the declension of "Homo" into "Homum" (or, again, whatever the accusative declension might be).
English, on the other hand, is analytical, by which they mean this: Nouns are generally are not changed to indicate what case (subject of the sentence, direct objective the sentence, they represent.
(And adjectives are not inflected to agree with nouns. Curiously, there is one adjective in English I know of which still changes according to the gender of the noun it modifies: Masculine "blond," feminine "blonde.")
In English, rather than indicating whether a noun is subject, object (and there are multiple cases for different sorts of objects), we use syntax -- logic and especially word order -- and "particles," chiefly prepositions.
In Latin, famously, you could put the subject wherever you liked in a sentence, and there would be no ambiguity about what the subject was, because the noun was itself declined to indicate it was the subject.
But in English, we primarily use a Subject-Verb-Object word order to keep these things straight.
Now the Political Hat certainly had a point when he suggested that, given that I understand one system of indicating these things (the analytic way), the other way (the synthetic way) would strike me as too much work and bother. And English probably seems easier and more intuitive to me -- or you -- than it actually is, because we're all native English speakers.
We understand the language without knowing the actual rules. Foreign learners (or a Roman transported from 50 AD) wouldn't have that same "understanding without knowing why" advantage.
Anyway, here's what I learned on this point -- synthetic languages versus analytical ones -- from the videos.
First, I just have to mention this, because it's a fun fact. Old English was a combination of a barely-present Celtic substrate, and more substantially a mix of German (as far as vocabulary) and Latin (as far as grammar). Old English was in fact as heavily declined as Latin (or almost as much).
Here's the thing, though: They didn't get the Latin exposure from the Romans. The Romans (this professor said) hadn't actually had that big of an impact on Britain when they had colonies there.
No, the Latin influence in Old English came from... The Germans. The Germans, having lived under Roman rule for some time, had themselves been much-influenced by Latin grammar, and their own language now included all sorts of declensions and inflections. So it was the German invaders (Angles, Saxons, and Jutes) who actually brought Latin Lessons to England.
(Oh if you were thinking it was the Normans, yeah, there was a whole new influence of Latin later, post the Norman Invasion, but there was already a significant Latin influence on Old English before 1066.)
Over time, however, Old English began losing all of its declensions and inflections and Latin grammar.
Here's why, I think. The professor says most of this, but I'm going to add a little. During the Old English period, a big part of the country was occupied by other Germanic invaders (the Danes). The Danes offered a bunch of new words to Old English. However, as these were Danish words, English speakers didn't know how to properly decline them or inflect them. So they would drop the declensions and inflections on foreign words... but then they began to drop such things in their own native vocabulary as well.
What I think happens is that languages cannot keep all these complicated rules of grammar when they have frequent mixing with foreign language. The very process of language mixing forces a less intensive scheme of grammar and declensions and all that. The rules of language becomes simplified, because the mixing populations cannot agree on detailed rules of language. They have different details in their rules.
So the details get suppressed or ignored in favor of simpler, and less subtle, rules. The bias in English towards Subject-Verb-Object word order might be seen as a crude method of dealing with the problem -- a significant freedom is expression is lost when one must put words in a certain order to be intelligible.
Nevertheless, it works. Once the SVO word order is accepted and dominant in a language, you can shed the complicated declensions, and start borrowing words from any language you like. You don't have to add tricky endings to them; you'll rely on basic rules like word order for that.
It seems that any time a language goes through such a period of pidginization and hybridization it winds up shedding subtle methods of indicating grammar in favor of simpler methods. The ultimate pidgin, the lingua franca so famous we actually call it Lingua Franca, had an even simpler grammar (even skipping conjugation of verbs for tense).
A very simple language allowing mixed populations to speak to each other, whether an enclave of Jews in Algeria, or a pirate crew made up of cutthroats from a dozen nations.
Savvy?
At any rate, I guess this is an explanation to the question that was interesting me yesterday: Why is that so many languages -- English, most prominently, but also French, Spanish, Italian, German, etc. -- begin, in earlier centuries, with a much more complicated grammar, and over the years, become simpler in their grammar?
Wouldn't you imagine, at first blush, it would go the opposite way? That a language would begin crude and gain complexity through the centuries?
Instead the history of all the languages of Europe, at from the birth of Christ until the modern era, has been an evolution towards simpler grammar, almost all languages moving from "more synthetic" to "more analytic."
And it's all probably just due to languages smashing into each other due to migration or invasion and every new hybrid population moving towards a more "universal" method of indicating case (word order) than the old Latin-like schemes they had used when the languages were "purer."
Anyway, interesting stuff. I think it is, anyway.
Oh: I always wondered: Why does German have all these Latin-style declensions and cases when the actual languages descended from Latin do not?
I think I can guess at an answer: The Germans weren't invaded during 1 AD to 1700 AD. They were doing the invading.
France has a strong German invasion influence because the Germans took them over in 500 AD or thereabouts. The name "France" is a little confusing, because that comes from the Franks, and the Franks were... Germans.
So French actually probably lost its tricky Latin declensions due to a long period of mixing between the proto-French/vulgar Latin language and Frankish (which was Germanic).
Anyway, maybe that's why Germany managed to hold on to many of its Latin-esque cases and declensions.
Comically Wrong; I'm being told this last part -- the part about ze Germans -- is wrong, and that Old German had declensions and such for the same reason Latin did, but not due to Latin: because the hypothetical mother language, Indo-European, had cases and such.
Well that may be wrong. But that was my point, not the professor's. The guy on the video claims that Latin influence on English came via German invasions (which had by then acquired a Latin influence), and not so much due to Hadrian.
And the more important thing, to me, is the idea of why German could keep its declensions (or many of them) when the actual Romance languages shed them. I don't know if my "mixing languages forces them all to adopt a simpler grammar" is right, but it seems likely to me.
Posted by: Ace at
03:31 PM
| Comments (464)
Post contains 1919 words, total size 12 kb.
Posted by: Fred Flinstone at January 22, 2014 03:33 PM (BV9I5)
Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 22, 2014 03:34 PM (TGgNi)
Posted by: Y-not at January 22, 2014 03:34 PM (zDsvJ)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 03:34 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 03:35 PM (sdi6R)
Huge news.
MFM: Huge news? That's what you think
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (JivuR)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (sdi6R)
This post confuses me. I don't remember hearing about a hedgehog movie lately, so how can you review it?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (TIIx5)
Which one of those is See Spot Run? I'm reading it now.
Posted by: Joe Biden at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 03:36 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at January 22, 2014 03:37 PM (tcK++)
Posted by: Tom Hagen at January 22, 2014 03:37 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Aetius451AD at January 22, 2014 03:37 PM (TGgNi)
Posted by: Hate Miser at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (VVa+w)
Posted by: Steve Martin at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (cnS/d)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (MMC8r)
What have the Romans ever done for us?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (JivuR)
Posted by: lowandslow at January 22, 2014 03:38 PM (IV4od)
Posted by: Michael Mann at January 22, 2014 03:39 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 03:40 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: blaster at January 22, 2014 03:40 PM (m+Vlh)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 22, 2014 03:40 PM (g4TxM)
Posted by: no good deed at January 22, 2014 03:41 PM (vBhbc)
Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 03:41 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: steevy at January 22, 2014 03:41 PM (zqvg6)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 07:38 PM (MMC8r)
He looks more like the Great Gazoo.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 22, 2014 03:42 PM (m2Izr)
No wonder Russia has so many poets. Poetry is easy when you arrange the words in any order.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 22, 2014 03:42 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2014 03:42 PM (C3Wjb)
Damn ace, you were straight up tearing Latin a new one. Fuck those declensions man. About time someone called out Latin on all its bullshit.
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 22, 2014 03:43 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 22, 2014 03:43 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 03:43 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: steevy at January 22, 2014 03:44 PM (zqvg6)
You're only attacking Geithner because he's a woman.
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 07:38 PM (MMC8r)
He looks more like the Great Gazoo.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 22, 2014 07:42 PM (m2Izr)
Keebler Elf
Posted by: The Jackhole at January 22, 2014 03:44 PM (nTgAI)
I'll wait for the DVD, thank you.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 22, 2014 03:44 PM (DQZLr)
Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (C3Wjb)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (g4TxM)
F*** Latin.
Posted by: The Etruscans
We made it our bitch.
Posted by: Visigoths at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: steevy at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (zqvg6)
Every time I see/hear the word "gravitas" I think of that episode of Inside the Actor's Studio with Keiffer Sutherland.
Posted by: DangerGirl at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (GrtrJ)
Posted by: Herodotus/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 22, 2014 03:45 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: The Jackhole at January 22, 2014 03:46 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: Mac at January 22, 2014 03:46 PM (Pb3wv)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 03:46 PM (P7Wsr)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 03:46 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 03:47 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: traye at January 22, 2014 03:47 PM (CWW5j)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 03:47 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Country Singer at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (CWquH)
Sheesh, we can't have a nice, intellectual discussion without the gutter talk?
Posted by: pep at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (g4TxM)
Posted by: John P. Squibob at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (DQZLr)
.Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Arthur Hoggett[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 22, 2014 03:48 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Hate Miser at January 22, 2014 03:49 PM (VVa+w)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 03:49 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: garrett at January 22, 2014 03:49 PM (BV9I5)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 22, 2014 03:49 PM (vHRtU)
Posted by: The Pullus at January 22, 2014 03:50 PM (C3Wjb)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 03:50 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: RoyalOil at January 22, 2014 03:50 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: MTF at January 22, 2014 03:51 PM (F58x4)
I thought gravitas was the soul of wit.
Posted by: Hamlet at January 22, 2014 03:51 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Tomas Smytherton at January 22, 2014 03:52 PM (hLpBG)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 22, 2014 03:52 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Sean Bannion[/i][/s][/u][/b] at January 22, 2014 03:53 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: garrett at January 22, 2014 03:53 PM (BV9I5)
He's asked what is favorite word is. He replies in a very serious voice, "Latin. Gravitas."
Then he's asked his least favorite word. In the same, very serious voice he clearly states, "N***er."
You have to hear it to find it funny, I think, but it seems to be removed from the internet.
Posted by: DangerGirl at January 22, 2014 03:53 PM (GrtrJ)
Posted by: Wendee Dabis at January 22, 2014 03:54 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 07:38 PM
Roads, bridges, aqueducts, free masons. Cement,
oh, wait, you were just ...
never mind.
Posted by: Tomas Smytherton at January 22, 2014 03:54 PM (hLpBG)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 03:55 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Ezra Klein at January 22, 2014 03:55 PM (TKFmG)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 03:56 PM (DmNpO)
It's no wonder that the inner circle of the Obama administration are a bit _touchy_ about that subject. They understand that administrations and incumbent parties get utterly fucking destroyed by seemingly small changes in financial markets that then end up inducing large avalanches in those same markets.
In fact, they are in power precisely because of such an avalanche.
It's early 2014. Let me put it to you that very, very, very few people in early 2006 had any inkling of the possibility that the economy would be entering screaming freefall terror two and a half years later. With extremely consequential political outcomes.
Posted by: torquewrench at January 22, 2014 03:56 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 07:51 PM (JivuR)
The Ramones brought down the house.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 22, 2014 03:56 PM (m2Izr)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 03:56 PM (P7Wsr)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 03:56 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 03:57 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Navin R Johnson at January 22, 2014 03:57 PM (RRbuy)
Posted by: Pyrrhus of Epirus at January 22, 2014 07:44 PM (8ZskC)
Hear, hear.
Posted by: Max Fischer at January 22, 2014 03:58 PM (M5T54)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 22, 2014 03:58 PM (vHRtU)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 03:58 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Roote at January 22, 2014 03:59 PM (UDPvg)
But..., it was true:
http://www.wallstreetweather.net/2009/04/bernanke-behind-threat-to-oust-lewis.html
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 03:59 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 03:59 PM (GEICT)
It's really the whole tone of the thing. And FGS, who says that when they're asked their least favorite word? That's the first thing he thinks?
I hear a dogwhistle...
Posted by: DangerGirl at January 22, 2014 04:00 PM (GrtrJ)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:00 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 04:00 PM (aDwsi)
the main characteristic of Ebonics was the lack of the verb "to be".
Today's assignment: translate into Ebonics:
"To be or not to be..."
correct answer: "sheeeeet, man..."
Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 04:00 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 07:38 PM (JivuR)
They brought us orgies and bulimia?
Posted by: NC Ref at January 22, 2014 04:01 PM (U0Mxs)
Posted by: GnuBreed at January 22, 2014 04:01 PM (wNF3N)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 22, 2014 04:01 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: no good deed at January 22, 2014 07:41 PM (vBhbc)
---------------------------------------------
German is that way too. Especially when speaking in past perfect or present perfect.
Posted by: Soona at January 22, 2014 04:02 PM (Qf+FR)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:02 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 22, 2014 04:02 PM (vHRtU)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 22, 2014 04:03 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:03 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 04:03 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:03 PM (zxsxA)
Posted by: garrett at January 22, 2014 04:04 PM (BV9I5)
Posted by: Carol at January 22, 2014 04:04 PM (z4WKX)
Speaking of authentic frontier gibberish.
Posted by: pep at January 22, 2014 04:04 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 22, 2014 04:04 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: toby928© at January 22, 2014 04:04 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 04:05 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2014 04:05 PM (C3Wjb)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:05 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: Carol at January 22, 2014 04:05 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 22, 2014 04:05 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (P7Wsr)
Posted by: toby928© at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: RoyalOil at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (DmNpO)
German languages already had declensions and conjugations. They came with the standard Indo-European package, which is why they are also possessed by Slavic, Celtic, Greek, Persian, and Indian languages. Sanskrit did not pick up declensions and conjugations from the Romans.
English grammar is incredibly complicated. It has some very weird features, such as its lack of a true past or future tense. The big Cambridge grammar of the English language linguistics book is something like 1500 pages long.
Posted by: Suburbanbanshee at January 22, 2014 04:06 PM (cvXSV)
Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 04:07 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 22, 2014 04:07 PM (080XV)
You should have said "I'm tho thorry".
Posted by: pep at January 22, 2014 04:07 PM (6TB1Z)
So, the name France came from the Franks, who were blood-thirsty invading Germans.
Normandy came from the Normans or rather North Men, who were invading blood-thirsty Scandi Vikings.
What. The. Hell. Happened. to create the cheese-eating surrender monkeys we know so well.
----------------------------------------------
It comes from three modern english words: Fantastic leftist pussy.
Posted by: Soona at January 22, 2014 04:07 PM (Qf+FR)
That one's only a baby, but when they get big, they're very adapt at holographic projection tech and can make Godzilla size hedgehogs appear.
I read that on the tubes somewhere, so you know its true
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:07 PM (zxsxA)
Posted by: thunderb at January 22, 2014 04:08 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Suburbanbanshee at January 22, 2014 04:08 PM (cvXSV)
I prefer "Vampire Government".
Zombie Apocalypse Government works for me.
Mindless, eating machine, that can't be reasoned with. Only one way to deal with it...
Posted by: Paladin at January 22, 2014 04:09 PM (QGbEp)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:09 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: slickus willius at January 22, 2014 04:09 PM (tcK++)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:10 PM (9HTJ0)
Posted by: Dan Rather at January 22, 2014 04:10 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:10 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:10 PM (P7Wsr)
---------------------------------
'Eclectic'
I know immediately that I am dealing with a hipster douche.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 04:10 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:11 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:11 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:11 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:12 PM (XvHmy)
It wasn't until Edward I that English actually became the language of the royal court. That was the late 13th century.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 22, 2014 04:13 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 04:13 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:13 PM (P7Wsr)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:14 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:14 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:14 PM (DmNpO)
But "Omaha! Omaha! Omaha! Omaha! Omaha! Omaha! Omaha!" is still cool, right
Posted by: Peyton Manning at January 22, 2014 04:15 PM (VVa+w)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:15 PM (KgN8K)
Senate opponents argued Geithner should not be an exception to a rule that has seen IRS workers fired over unpaid taxes. Geithner's backers said he had made innocent errors - and insisted he's the best man for the job.
“I still support him,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R., Utah) as he emerged from the meeting. “He’s a very competent guy.”
"People make mistakes and commit oversights,but our expectations for him are high."
Top men.....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 22, 2014 04:15 PM (kdS6q)
Mandarin is the same. I gave up trying to learn it even though most of my clients speak it.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 22, 2014 04:15 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: SyFie at January 22, 2014 04:16 PM (R6JT1)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:16 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:16 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Emily at January 22, 2014 04:16 PM (7Rn+/)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:17 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:17 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:18 PM (/FnUH)
And the Republicans who voted to confirm Geither:
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
Ensign (R-NV)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 22, 2014 04:18 PM (kdS6q)
When I was out at DLI studying Russian, I took a trip to LA with a friend who was from there. On the way down, I kept seeing roadsigns with the word soup on them. We were halfway to the house before I figured out it was the abbreviation for canyon. Cyn
Posted by: no good deed at January 22, 2014 04:19 PM (vBhbc)
-----------------------
These things take time
Posted by: Zero at January 22, 2014 04:19 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: garrett at January 22, 2014 04:19 PM (BV9I5)
http://german.about.com/library/blmtwain01.htm
"The trunks being now ready, he DE- after kissing his mother and sisters, and once more pressing to his bosom his adored Gretchen, who, dressed in simple white muslin, with a single tuberose in the ample folds of her rich brown hair, had tottered feebly down the stairs, still pale from the terror and excitement of the past evening, but longing to lay her poor aching head yet once again upon the breast of him whom she loved more dearly than life itself, PARTED."
Posted by: HR at January 22, 2014 04:19 PM (hO8IJ)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:19 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Emo Grammar[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 22, 2014 04:20 PM (P7Wsr)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 04:20 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: Carol at January 22, 2014 04:20 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: roach bowl at January 22, 2014 04:21 PM (hRgYx)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at January 22, 2014 04:21 PM (pYaDJ)
Here's the thing, though: They didn't get the Latin exposure from the Romans. The Romans (this professor said) hadn't actually had that big of an impact on Britain when they had colonies there.
No, the Latin influence in Old English came from... The Germans. The Germans, having lived under Roman rule for some time, had themselves been much-influenced by Latin grammar, and their own language now included all sorts of declensions and inflections. So it was the German invaders (Angles, Saxons, and Jutes) who actually brought Latin Lessons to England.
Umm...okay, so pretty much every word of this is comically wrong. Now I have to go back and look to see whether someone else pointed this out in the comments.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 04:21 PM (ewYO6)
Wow, eight? Chinese has four. I would joke about the word "ma" in Chinese. You'd better use the right tone or instead of riding a horse you could end up riding your mother.
Posted by: no good deed at January 22, 2014 04:22 PM (vBhbc)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:22 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 04:22 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: Harald the BallCrusher at January 22, 2014 04:23 PM (omBWL)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:23 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:23 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Œdipus at January 22, 2014 04:24 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:24 PM (KgN8K)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 22, 2014 04:25 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 04:25 PM (aDwsi)
This is a job for TruCon Cat!
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 04:26 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Winston Churchill at January 22, 2014 04:26 PM (080XV)
because word order and some other stuff, you language pussies
You can make anything into a word auf Deutsch--just keep adding syllables until you got what you wants
Posted by: Harald the BallCrusher at January 22, 2014 04:26 PM (omBWL)
Posted by: Piercello at January 22, 2014 04:27 PM (jJ97i)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 04:27 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: gewa76 at January 22, 2014 04:27 PM (k8m83)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:28 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Lady in Black at January 22, 2014 04:28 PM (Oa7B2)
I'm told Deutsch Scrabble is really something else.
Posted by: HR at January 22, 2014 04:28 PM (hO8IJ)
'Any morons have one as a pet?
Posted by: Y-not at January 22, 2014 07:34 PM (zDsvJ)
I don't have a hedgehog, but I do have a miniature giraffe similar to the one featured on the Direct TV advertisement. We kiss also.
Posted by: Doctor Fish at January 22, 2014 04:29 PM (pJF+c)
Posted by: Less Wonkish More Rogue at January 22, 2014 04:29 PM (dvRYt)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 04:29 PM (bRL1M)
I have heard comments to the effect that Esperanto is on the outs because it's just so horribly eurocentric, and that native speakers of Asian languages have problems with pronouncing it.
My solution? A true universal language. Digital. Only two things to learn how to pronounce. Unfortunately, conversations are very long-winded.
Posted by: 10110101100001011101010 at January 22, 2014 04:29 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 04:29 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: WalrusRex at January 22, 2014 04:30 PM (E+uky)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:30 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 22, 2014 04:30 PM (080XV)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 04:30 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: traye at January 22, 2014 04:30 PM (CWW5j)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 22, 2014 04:31 PM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 08:27 PM (bRL1M)<<<
Oh thank goodness. I thought it was something that could be caught in my line of work.
Posted by: a pron actress at January 22, 2014 04:31 PM (VVa+w)
There's an old android saying which I feel is particularly relevant to this situation. It goes: '00101010110100101101001111001010101001011011000101010'
Posted by: HR at January 22, 2014 04:31 PM (hO8IJ)
I wrote a book.
Posted by: St. Jerome at January 22, 2014 04:31 PM (8ZskC)
Attempting not to be seized with the giggles as I recall a drunk Japanese guy at karaoke singing "Muskrat Ruuuuv".
Attempting really really hard. Help me out here. Mmmmph. Mph.
Fuck. I fail. I denounce myself.
Posted by: torquewrench at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: WalrusRex at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (E+uky)
Posted by: RWC at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (Q6HBD)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (bRL1M)
( you gotta repeat the question as a negative )
keeps air out of conversations
Posted by: Harald the BallCrusher at January 22, 2014 04:33 PM (omBWL)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 04:34 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: the snarkster at January 22, 2014 04:34 PM (jsmDz)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:34 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 22, 2014 04:34 PM (080XV)
soldiers that was steeped in Latin? What survived with the native
population long after soldiers left and was at the right hand of every
ruler?
I wrote a book.
Posted by: St. Jerome at January 22, 2014 08:31 PM (8ZskC)
"Translated" asshole.
Posted by: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John at January 22, 2014 04:35 PM (cJt2z)
Tweedehandsemotorverkoopsmannevakbondstakingsvergaderingsameroepersto espraakskrywerspersverklaringuitreikingsmediakonferensieaankondiging
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 22, 2014 04:35 PM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 04:35 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:35 PM (/FnUH)
1.) OF COURSE Old English had its own set of naturally inherited declensions and inflections from proto-Indo-European. FFS the interaction between Germanic languages and Latin was ultimately fairly superficial -- Latin gave many/most Germanic languages a number of vocabulary words (this was a period before Germanic had really begun to differentiate into sub-languages, although the North Germanic languages were already drifting apart), they absolutely did not majorly affect the grammar of the Germanic languages. Which is why Gothic/proto-Germanic (of which we have a reasonably good sample via the Wulfilas Bible) contains a slew of declensions and verb inflections that Latin also has, and which were later lost in Modern English: both German and Latin have these not because the two interacted with one another, but rather because they both inherited them (each taking some, but not all) from proto-Indo-European.
2.) Old English isn't a "combination" of anything. Old English is a very smooth-lineaged descendant from proto-Germanic without much outside linguistic interference until the Norman invasion, totally unlike such truly fucked-with Indo-European languages like Armenian (which was massively reshaped by neighboring Iranian, Caucasian, Turkic, and Slavic influences) or Albanian (ditto). In particular, there is little or no perceptible influence by the Brythonic Celtic languages (these were the Celtic languages spoken in Britain at the time of the Anglo-Saxon invasion - Welsh is the only survivor).
3.) It doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense to say that Old-English was a "mix" of German "when it comes to vocabulary" and Latin "when it comes to grammar. Neither statement is true. Old English wasn't "influenced heavily" by Germanic vocabulary, it WAS a Germanic language and therefore SHARED the same vocabulary as, say, Frankish or Gothic or Low German (i.e. Dutch or Frisian - its closest relatives) or High German. In each sub-language (they started off as mere dialects of one another, mutually intelligible, and each wandered further afield) the same stock of words usually comes from the mother tongue, with unique phonetic developments and changes after separation. There are of course also some later borrowings, but not that many. Furthermore Old English grammar owes practically nothing to Latin grammar (if not outright nothing). Old English grammar is a direct derivation/evolution of proto-Germanic grammar, and the shared traits of proto-Germanic grammar and Latin are mutually inherited from PIE.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 04:36 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: American Public at January 22, 2014 04:36 PM (tcK++)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:37 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: the snarkster at January 22, 2014 04:37 PM (jsmDz)
http://tinyurl.com/k23b2x6
Never "Heard" of her before. *hahahahahahhahahaha*
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 22, 2014 04:37 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:38 PM (GEICT)
Poontang was. Which I assume is derivative.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Unexpurgated Edition) at January 22, 2014 04:38 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:38 PM (2ArJQ)
ace, you stepped on my tone language comment, was going to say much the same thing.
For several years I had a Vietnamese gf and would spend quite a bit of time in Vietnam (one of my favorite places, and I've been to lots - this was late 90s). Finally I decided to take some language lessons while there. After major commitments to other languages in my past, was a bit language-weary, but of course the absurd difficulty of the tone thing cut my studies very short. Thing with V'mese is they have the romanized alphabet, thanks to the colonial era, so you can still function somewhat fairly easily (reading street signs, etc.). My joke about V'mese has always been that it's an elaborate hoax perpretrated on foreigners - I mean, no one would ACTUALLY speak like that .....
Purp - "I remember when a $2T error would change a result. I guess that shows I'm getting old." Funny!
S&P thang - typical, thuggish, inappropriate, but just part of the problem. The "independent" ratings agencies aren't so independent, as was learned in 2008. Government gorilla is a major problem. Just as the Fed and Fannie - even in some cases by inaction - could clearly signal preferred behaviors for those building the pyramid of mortgage junk, they and other big players probably compound problems by having too much influence on the agencies.
OT - forced myself to listen to some Hugh Hewitt. Wow. He just can't get over his love affair with mostly mediocre or worse "journalists" from the usual places. And hearing these people talk reminds me of why I despair for the country. Almost entirely clueless, mindlessly shaped by and wedded to the NPR-stupid bubble world, smug, un-self-aware, so impressed with the most unimpressive Beltway s**t. Low-point was hearing some NYT nitwit talking about the two staffers "working" on the latest amnesty crap. Experienced "professionals". You see, sitting down and making up disastrous new laws (which will mostly not be enforced anyway) requires "professionals" - sort of like site studies for nuclear generating stations, or designing an oil tanker, or managing a global logistics operation.
Oh and BTW, Hugh is for "regularizing" - which I presume means amnesty, and claims that "out there" in America there is no passion for laws being enforced, but only for a border fence. The shallow GOP shill is never far below the surface with Hewitt.
Posted by: non-purist at January 22, 2014 04:39 PM (afQnV)
Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 22, 2014 04:39 PM (o9Rp5)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:39 PM (sJLfI)
Posted by: the snarkster at January 22, 2014 04:40 PM (jsmDz)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:40 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 04:40 PM (6/+vz)
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at January 22, 2014 04:40 PM (080XV)
Posted by: Teleprompter Feed Crew at January 22, 2014 04:40 PM (RJMhd)
The Captain and Tenille are divorcing after being married for nearly 40 years.
Oh no. One of my favorite songs was Muskrat Love.
Posted by: Ronster at January 22, 2014 04:41 PM (kj1eu)
Posted by: Ronster at January 22, 2014 08:41 PM (kj1eu)
I'm afraid you'll have to turn in your man card.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at January 22, 2014 04:42 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Teleprompter Feed Crew at January 22, 2014 04:42 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Thomas Aquinas at January 22, 2014 04:43 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at January 22, 2014 04:43 PM (E8IHS)
Posted by: Teleprompter Feed Crew at January 22, 2014 04:43 PM (RJMhd)
---------------
No way! Next you'll tell me that Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anniston have no chance. What is the world coming to?
Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 22, 2014 04:43 PM (o9Rp5)
Posted by: UWP at January 22, 2014 04:44 PM (2hQRj)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:44 PM (2ArJQ)
In contrast, there is for "ride": "I rode" vs "I have ridden"
This is a common mistake so it's understandable, but do realize: just because a language doesn't have (or no longer has) a unique WORD or conjugation for a verb tense doesn't mean that the tense itself no longer exists in the language. It often just means that the tense is expressed in a different way.
You are correct that in Old English the simple past tense was often (but not always) expressed through ablaut (i.e. run/ran), but OE used ablaut for nouns as well (i.e. goose/geese). It is in fact a grammatical marker that dates all the way back to proto-Indo-European and fell out of use in many of the other language families.
Just because modern English now uses the "-ed" participle for most past tense conjugations doesn't mean that it doesn't have a simple past tense. Of course it does, and it's most often formed by adding "-ed." Similarly, just because we don't have a grammatically distinct means of expressing future tense (like Romance languages do), and instead use auxiliary verbs, doesn't mean that the future tense "doesn't exist." Sure it does, it's expressed by adding auxiliaries like "will" or "shall" before the main verb.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 04:44 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:44 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:45 PM (KgN8K)
Posted by: Brother Cavil needs to sort his socks at January 22, 2014 04:46 PM (m9V0o)
Posted by: Ronster at January 22, 2014 04:46 PM (kj1eu)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 22, 2014 04:46 PM (7kkQJ)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 04:46 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 04:47 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: Þe Political Hat at January 22, 2014 04:47 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:47 PM (/FnUH)
Riffing off the Monty Python link upthread, now I'm imagining R. Lee Ermey correcting boot recruits' Latin declensions.
How _do_ you say "What is your major malfunction?" in Latin?
Posted by: torquewrench at January 22, 2014 04:47 PM (gqT4g)
And þat's why þis is a smart military blog!
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 22, 2014 04:48 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:48 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: toby928© at January 22, 2014 04:49 PM (QupBk)
I give you Kate Upton in a bikini running.
Ahem.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 04:49 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 04:49 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:50 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: Jobey at January 22, 2014 04:50 PM (LZZOx)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:50 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: steevy at January 22, 2014 04:50 PM (zqvg6)
Posted by: Brother Cavil needs to sort his socks at January 22, 2014 04:52 PM (m9V0o)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:53 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: gewa76 at January 22, 2014 04:53 PM (k8m83)
You start with an ampersand and then...!
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 22, 2014 04:53 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 08:49 PM (g1DWB)
*starts campaign to get cuntling into the OED*
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 04:53 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Ronster at January 22, 2014 04:54 PM (kj1eu)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:54 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:54 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: Mr Poo Poo at January 22, 2014 04:54 PM (X3GkB)
So does anyone speak "Jive"?
I speak a little
Posted by: the snarkster at January 22, 2014 08:40 PM (jsmDz)
I know a little German.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0lJyDCLYTE
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (m2Izr)
Posted by: Thomas Aquinas at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: WalrusRex at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (E+uky)
I believe we can come to an agreement on that.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Bastardized Wheelock at January 22, 2014 04:55 PM (R6JT1)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:56 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: traye at January 22, 2014 04:56 PM (CWW5j)
Posted by: Berserker- Dragonheads Division at January 22, 2014 04:57 PM (FMbng)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 04:57 PM (D4yqe)
They most certainly were not, which explains how Latin appeared in written documents of the Dark Ages as, well, Latin (albeit not quite Classical in form) for so long while the people themselves had long been speaking "vulgate" tongues, i.e. proto-French, proto-Provencal, proto-Spanish, proto-Italian, etc. Educated people existed in a state of near-bilingualism -- speaking in the vulgar tongue in their everyday lives, but easily able to mentally 'flip' into late Latin when it came time to either read or write documents.
Only with the famous Oaths of Strasbourg in 842 was an example of the vulgate spoken by the people finally committed to paper (proto-French, in this case), and that happened because the armies of Louis the German and Charles the Bald's demanded that their agreement be written not just in Latin, but in the tongues which they, the fighting men, spoke. It gives an opportunity to see just how far afield the vulgar tongue of Gaul (well on its to becoming French) had wandered from its Classical Latin roots.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 04:57 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 04:57 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: RWC at January 22, 2014 04:57 PM (Q6HBD)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 04:58 PM (KgN8K)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 04:58 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 04:59 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: Ronster at January 22, 2014 04:59 PM (kj1eu)
Posted by: ace at January 22, 2014 04:59 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: WalrusRex at January 22, 2014 04:59 PM (E+uky)
Old. As in at least Shakespeare old. He uses it in Much Ado I think.
Oh ffs I'm an idiot. Of course Whedon used it in Avengers, he was shooting his version of Much Ado at the same time.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 04:59 PM (Gk3SS)
More on the cocktail party gimmick end of language geekery, ace, but you should really look into Czech's famous vowel-free sentences, and try to pronounce them.
But Finnish is - uh, as the name implies - in the Finno-Ugric family, not Indo-European, I believe.
Top language story - there was a checkpoint in Baghdad at one point that had Peruvian (really) contractor guards on one side, and Georgians (as in Stalin, not Atlanta) on the other. Had great fun once at that checkpoint when driving an Iraqi back to his office by opening both windows and gibbering with the Peruvians a bit and then greeting the other side in Georgian (the soldiers were too young and didn't speak Russian).
Oh wait - no, even better language story was way back when, at an African airport, US delegation departing with host country #2 honcho speaking, translating the Portuguese into Russian for the TASS TV crew (this was during the Cold War in a place we were toe-to-toe with the Russkis in a proxy war). The Russians loved it - typically for such folks, they absolutely hated Africa and didn't speak a word of the local lingo.
Posted by: non-purist at January 22, 2014 05:00 PM (afQnV)
Posted by: garrett at January 22, 2014 05:00 PM (sMsBt)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 22, 2014 05:01 PM (1Y+hH)
See #319. You're close, but not quite right. The way it actually worked was that the closer to Rome you were, and the further away from shared borders with Germanic barbarians, the closer your language stayed to classical Latin. That's why Italian itself is the language that remains closest to Latin, and Spanish (in its Iberian quasi-isolation) very close as well, whereas French (with a stubborn Celtic substrate already present, and all those damn Germans pouring into Gaul at constant intervals) underwent significant phonetic reshaping.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 05:01 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 05:01 PM (sdi6R)
Ace gets fired up about all these linguistical curiosities.
Coincidence?
Posted by: Hate Miser at January 22, 2014 05:02 PM (VVa+w)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:02 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:02 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: freaked at January 22, 2014 05:03 PM (JdEZJ)
Posted by: Carol at January 22, 2014 05:03 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 05:05 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 05:05 PM (OF6Kw)
****
Legs.
http://bitly.com/1jBJvTC Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 09:02 PM (DmNpO)
Generally I have no use for Cameron Diaz but she's great in Bad Teacher. I love that she didn't try to give her character any redeeming qualities at all. The few minorly decent things she does are still pretty self serving.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 05:05 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 05:06 PM (2ArJQ)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:06 PM (6/+vz)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 05:06 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:07 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: BignJames at January 22, 2014 05:07 PM (HtUkt)
Or, like the Romans themselves had already been acculturated into the classical world by the Greeks.
So I wouldn't necessarily rule out that the Anglo-Saxon language had taken several cues from Latin.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:09 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: steevy at January 22, 2014 08:50 PM (zqvg6)
"Being John Makovich"? That's probably as close as you'll get, anyway.
Posted by: Sandra Fluke's solid gold diaphragm at January 22, 2014 05:09 PM (M5T54)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:10 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 09:07 PM (DmNpO)
I did like that it presented the proposition that what kids need in a guidance counselor is someone to say what the fuck is wrong with you stop that shit.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD, you taunty bitch. at January 22, 2014 05:10 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: mugiwara at January 22, 2014 05:10 PM (3a584)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:11 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: Ben Franklin at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (6/+vz)
This is a thugogracy.
In other news, former Republican Governor of Virginia is being charged by the lawless Eric Holder DOJ of corruption.
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (V70Uh)
Posted by: lauraw at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (yGblt)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 05:12 PM (bRL1M)
Posted by: toby928© at January 22, 2014 05:13 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: gewa76 at January 22, 2014 05:14 PM (k8m83)
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo misses radish at January 22, 2014 05:14 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 22, 2014 09:12 PM (V70Uh)
We can rest assured that this will never happen with the new Democrat Governor (the never being reported by any news outlet part I mean!).
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 22, 2014 05:14 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 22, 2014 05:14 PM (PXpA7)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:14 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:15 PM (6/+vz)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:15 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: toby928© at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (/i3Yt)
I'm a big fan of Austrian, but beyond that, I don't really have a good ear for language.
Posted by: SCOAMF at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (VVa+w)
Posted by: Caliban at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (2ArJQ)
Or, like the Romans themselves had already been acculturated into the classical world by the Greeks.
So I wouldn't necessarily rule out that the Anglo-Saxon language had taken several cues from Latin.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 09:09 PM (Xfl0F)
Your Honor, dese Jutes invaded England. Did you say, Jutes?
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (JivuR)
Interestingly enough there is not simple past of the verb "go" any more.
We have "I go" and "I have gone" but no "I goed"
"went" is the simple past of the verb "wend"
========
Irregular verbs. English loves them.
"I am" is another.
For the present active tense:
I am
you are
she/he/it is
we are
they all are
they are
Future:
I will
you will
he/she/it will
we will
they all will
they will
Past:
I was
you were
he/she/it was
we were
you were
you all were
Then there are your passives; and something about pluperfect.
Like, "I have been, I will have been, I will have had been" or something.
Anyway.
Latin and Japanese have regular forms of “I am.”
Posted by: RoyalOil at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (VjL9S)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:16 PM (DmNpO)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 05:18 PM (MMC8r)
Who said there is no justice in the world?
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 22, 2014 05:19 PM (V70Uh)
Posted by: Carol at January 22, 2014 05:20 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:20 PM (6/+vz)
Posted by: Yakov Smirnoff at January 22, 2014 05:20 PM (k8m83)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 05:20 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 09:18 PM (MMC8r)
In Ukraine, riot police riot!
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 22, 2014 05:21 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: dumbartist at January 22, 2014 05:21 PM (ahBY0)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 05:21 PM (MMC8r)
I am English by birth. And I'll tell you that no-one knows.
There were Celts in what's now counted as "England" but they were always - ALWAYS - to the west. Cornwall, Shropshire, the Severn generally.
The problem is that we're a fairly hilly island. Back when, if you were on a coast or on a river leading to the coast, it was easier to get to the mainland Europe than to the village across the bandit-infested hills.
The Thames tended culturally toward what's now northern France. The northeast, toward Denmark.
So the Germanic-English might have been in (parts of) England even *before* the Romans conquered the place.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:22 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 05:22 PM (bRL1M)
I liked it alot. Too bad AnE and TLC don't show that sort of stuff anymore.
Back in the late 70s or early 80s I watched a series on The Canterbury Tales that was a college course but aired on TV. I was living in northern Virginia at the time and can't recall if it aired on WETA with a tie-in to NoVa CC or if it was a local station and had not involvement with WETA. In any case, the narrator did a very good job of teaching/translating ME and I'd like to watch it again. My google-fu turns up nothing close, though. Any chance this wasn't just a local thing and someone else remembers it?
Posted by: Retread at January 22, 2014 05:23 PM (cHwk5)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 09:22 PM (bRL1M)
Of course, because by then, it will be his time!
Posted by: Karl Rover at January 22, 2014 05:23 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:25 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:26 PM (DmNpO)
I was flipping through the channels and saw "Sex Sent Me to the ER" on TLC. I guess it's the titillating version of "Ow, My Balls."
Posted by: no good deed at January 22, 2014 05:26 PM (vBhbc)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 05:26 PM (bRL1M)
I'd work for him if he was a middle-manager of some firm or other.
As President - no, never.
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:26 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 05:27 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: soothsayer, with arms akimbo at January 22, 2014 05:27 PM (4N6Pk)
"Vulgar" comes from the Latin word for common or common people or something. Ace talking about the vulgarization of Latin made me wonder whether the Latin Vulgate Bible was a reference to a version of the Bible based on the common Latin usage of the time. I suppose that's the case.
Posted by: rdbrewer at January 22, 2014 05:27 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Burnt Toast at January 22, 2014 05:27 PM (80R0X)
http://bit.ly/1ar9LzV
Posted by: Hrothgar at January 22, 2014 05:28 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo
CHALLENGE
ACCEPTED
Posted by: Pres. TFG [/i] [/b] at January 22, 2014 05:28 PM (cxs6V)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 22, 2014 05:29 PM (DmNpO)
Clearly Gates understood software and how to make a buck. Beyond that? Like many (most?) tycoons, he seems fairly clueless outside his specialty. Once picked up a book he did at a bookstore, thumbed through it, glanced at a few sentences. Garbage. Not that it was much worse than the other stuff there (for reasons passing understanding, I think I remember the book next to it, which I had to pick up out of wonder and masochism, was Joseph Nye's "Soft Power).
Also heard Gates prattling on about something outside his area on TV once. Again, "you're kidding me!" silly. Would have loved to have invested $5K with him in the early 80s, but beyond that, not sure I'd even want to have coffee with him.
Posted by: non-purist at January 22, 2014 05:29 PM (afQnV)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:29 PM (6/+vz)
Bill Gates: 'By 2035, There Will Be Almost No Poor Countries Left'
http://tinyurl.com/n23kfnm
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 09:20 PM (MMC8r)
I'm sure, if he alive at the time, Billy would have believed Kellogg Briand was going to outlaw war too
Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 05:30 PM (JivuR)
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at January 22, 2014 05:30 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: MikeH at January 22, 2014 05:31 PM (bRL1M)
Cool.
Posted by: rdbrewer at January 22, 2014 05:31 PM (Iyg03)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at January 22, 2014 05:32 PM (V70Uh)
The saecsen did push his way west and north. The question I have is whether the Celtic languages were indigenous to the whole island; or only as far east as Devon, the Severn Valley and Strathclyde...
Note that the "Scots-Irish" were also invaders, from Dalriada. Ancestral Pictland didn't speak Gaelic, it spoke Pictish. (Except for Strathclyde / Cumbria which was Welsh.)
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:32 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:33 PM (D4yqe)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 05:34 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: ScoggDog at January 22, 2014 05:34 PM (6/+vz)
"So Culpable, pret gets abbreviated as culp. pret and then that becomes "culprit." "
The Ace of 2614:
"I've been digging around in early internet files. We lol when something's funny and rotflomao when something really funny, but how many people realize that those everyday expressions come from the early days of the internet way back in the late 20th and early 21st century? Before that, people said "laugh out loud" and "rolling on the floor laughing my ass off." Many of our common expressions come from the days of primitive computers.
There's one file I've found that really confuses me though: the people who commented there (who oddly, referred to themselves as Morons) seemed to have a strange fixation on elbows, boobs, puppehs, kittehs, kaboom, bacon and barrels. They lived during the time of AntiChrist and yet seem to have loled easily, perhaps because they were frequently drunk. It was a bizarre little subculture and I'm having a hard time breaking their code."
Posted by: Donna V. at January 22, 2014 05:34 PM (R3gO3)
There were Celts in what's now counted as "England" but they were always - ALWAYS - to the west. Cornwall, Shropshire, the Severn generally.
Yeah, this just isn't true. The name "London" is itself Celtic ("Londinium" was the Roman name -- transparently "London" plus the standard Latinate case-ending...though if you want to see how obscure Wikipedia entries can be taken over by crackpots check out their page on the matter), as is "Thames." Proof enough that southern and eastern England were Celtic before the coming of the Romans. And given that the Romans didn't come and settle in any force, the place remained Celtic long afterwards, until the Anglo-Saxon invasions beginning in the late 5th century. We have ample inscription evidence from all throughout SE England demonstrating that the natives there spoke a Brythonic language that most likely was the predecessor of modern Welsh.
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 05:35 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: freaked at January 22, 2014 05:35 PM (JdEZJ)
Posted by: soothsayer, with arms akimbo at January 22, 2014 05:36 PM (4N6Pk)
Posted by: rickl at January 22, 2014 05:37 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 05:37 PM (g1DWB)
Southern and southeastern England. And they would have been more Gaulish-oriented than what we'd call Welsh. Celtic, yes. I'd allow for that . . .
But what about Northumbria at this time?
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:38 PM (Xfl0F)
Posted by: soothsayer, with arms akimbo at January 22, 2014 05:38 PM (4N6Pk)
Note that the "Scots-Irish" were also invaders, from Dalriada. Ancestral Pictland didn't speak Gaelic, it spoke Pictish. (Except for Strathclyde / Cumbria which was Welsh.)
The Celtic languages were spoken through all of Britain and Ireland. Pictish was once thought to be a separate, pre-Indo-European language, but is now generally believed to be a Celtic (Brythonic) language.
You are correct that the Scottish was a later invader to Britain, but it was done on the edge of historical times, so there's no real controversy as to how a Goidelic (Scottish) language ended up on an otherwise Brythonic island (Welsh).
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 05:38 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: --- at January 22, 2014 05:39 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Erik at January 22, 2014 05:42 PM (D4yqe)
I'm sure, if he alive at the time, Billy would have believed Kellogg Briand was going to outlaw war too Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 22, 2014 09:30 PM (JivuR)
Henry Ford was a brilliant engineer who changed the world, but he believed a lot of crap too. He did think war would be outlawed during his lifetime (and spent a lot of money promoting moonbatty pacifism). He also thought the Jews were evil and history was bunk.
You can be a genius in one area and a blithering idiot in others. You can also be a blithering idiot in all areas, like Joe Biden.
Posted by: Donna V. at January 22, 2014 05:43 PM (R3gO3)
Maybe so -- in fact, provably so -- but I'm not sure it matters. They were both Celtic. Welsh and Gaulish come from different branches of the Celtic family (Gaulish is Continental, Welsh is Insular), but their close interaction across the English channel is all but certain due to the fact that they shared a very distinct linguistic change (the conversion of proto-Indo Europoean "Q" into "P," hence Welsh "pump" and Gaulish "pinp" vs. Old Irish "coic" = the word five, e.g. quinque in Latin).
Posted by: Jeff B. - also an Indo-European language expert, no joke at January 22, 2014 05:44 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: D-Lamp at January 22, 2014 05:45 PM (bb5+k)
IBM fumbled the release of OS2, and DOS remained the primary operating system on the IBM PCs and the Clones. Bill didn't write DOS, he bought it from Digital Research.
"bought", I think the term your looking for is "entered into a conspiracy to steal"
Posted by: Zombue Gary Kildall at January 22, 2014 05:47 PM (4JkHl)
Posted by: bleh at January 22, 2014 05:52 PM (FJtsd)
Posted by: D-Lamp at January 22, 2014 05:52 PM (bb5+k)
Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at January 22, 2014 05:55 PM (Xfl0F)
That didn't happen just once. We usually think of poets being the ones to doll up a language (like Edgar Poe writing English verse in Greek feet), but researchers of various fields have made English more complex, not only in vocabulary but in syntax, every century or two. You don't notice while it's going on.
The Romans had a kind of inferiority complex about Latin. They did their serious writing (and thinking, too) in Greek, which has a separate word for every conceivable thing, a small-group plural from which either "y'all" or ya'll" descended (Thebes/Sparta, a north-south thang), and a full set of tenses. Cato The Elder ("delenda est") wrote the first book in Latin, a treatise on managing your farm and not being too damn easy on the help, hundreds of years after it became the standard language for business and administration all over Italy. They were that shy about the limitations of their native tongue.
Latin was a polyglot when it began (as I'm sure Indo-European must have been), and it took a heap o'patronage to pretty 'er up into the incisive tool you all bitch about now. Why do it? If you want to strum around the campfire, the chords on a ukulele are pretty easy. If you want to understand music theory, you force yourself to the piano, where all the elements must be built right in front of you.
It is fun to watch an otherwise educated man begin the study of English. All of a sudden it isn't so fuzzy, easy-lay, ungraded and drugged-up, is it? Anybody starting to think that maybe an Old English grammar analyst might actually be able to do mathematics, and really chose his "humanity" because it was hard?
Just pray Christ Ace does not suddenly become interested in Aristotle, or heat-transfer engineering physics, or youse (weeze?) are really in for it.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 22, 2014 05:56 PM (xq1UY)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 05:57 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: D-Lamp at January 22, 2014 06:04 PM (bb5+k)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2014 06:11 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: freaked at January 22, 2014 06:19 PM (JdEZJ)
no one thought of
badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
badger badger badger badger mushroom...
?
http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/badgers/
Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 06:23 PM (bJm7W)
1) In Russian, you decline proper names
2) It is a compact, efficient battle language. Solzhenitsyn's narrative poem "Prussian Nights" is stunning.
Posted by: mrp at January 22, 2014 06:29 PM (JBggj)
Posted by: Se Léodweardprætt Hæt at January 22, 2014 06:30 PM (AymDN)
Posted by: Se Léodweardprætt Hæt at January 22, 2014 06:32 PM (AymDN)
Posted by: Malcolm Kirkpatrick at January 22, 2014 06:46 PM (A+4pL)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at January 22, 2014 06:46 PM (cTgw8)
Posted by: D-Lamp at January 22, 2014 06:49 PM (bb5+k)
Posted by: D-Lamp at January 22, 2014 06:52 PM (bb5+k)
Posted by: President Kim Kardashian Yeezy typing through the Time Space Continuum at January 22, 2014 07:30 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: SFGoth at January 22, 2014 08:27 PM (VGDJR)
Posted by: Katja at January 22, 2014 08:57 PM (LmCTZ)
Posted by: Katja at January 22, 2014 09:00 PM (LmCTZ)
Posted by: Katja at January 22, 2014 09:11 PM (LmCTZ)
Posted by: Katja at January 22, 2014 09:36 PM (LmCTZ)
Posted by: Mazzuchelli at January 23, 2014 09:28 AM (gvekq)
If you don't like him, state the real reason.
Posted by: Uniden at January 23, 2014 09:52 AM (13G+x)
Posted by: davem at January 23, 2014 02:43 PM (wmzCM)
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Posted by: Mallfly at January 22, 2014 03:33 PM (bJm7W)