Ace of Spades HQ

May 06, 2014

Video Report on Rialto School District's Odd Homework Assignment
— Ace

Via Hot Air, more about the homework assignment from hell. Video at that link (but the video will keep playing and playing if you don't shut it down).

This .pdf contains the actual assignment. Note page 6, which begins "Even the diary of Anne Frank is a hoax."

The assignment claimed to be an exercise in analyzing propaganda:

The lesson plan, designed for eighth-graders, was supposed to help students analyze propaganda.
"When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. "For example, some people claim the Holocaust is not an actual historical event but instead is a propaganda tool that was used for political and monetary gain."
The assignment then asked students to explain whether they "believe the Holocaust was an actual event in history, or merely a political scheme created to influence public emotion and gain."

The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders.

Eighth graders barely even know what The Holocaust is in the first place.

Someone who knows very little about the subject will naturally find the "Other Point of View" pretty powerful because he doesn't know anything. He has no already-established historical database in his head.

Again, this is part of my basic complaint with the "Core" pedagogy: Having failed at teaching kids the most basic elementary information possible, such as when WWII was fought, and why, and so on, educational professionals have decided that the key to doing their jobs better is to become more ambitious in what they teach. Now, instead of teaching kids that WWII began in 1939 and ended in 1945 and that America entered the war in 1942 after the December 7 1941 attack at Pearl Harbor, we have kids that know practically nothing at all being asked to "analyze" the claims of people who, while ignorant, actually do know more than the kids themselves, and hence seem to be "authorities."

The teachers who came up with this new standard of excellence in civil service (and it took a gaggle of them, apparently) will undergo "sensitivity training."

I think the problem is deeper than a lack of sensitivity. The problem just seems to be one of incurably low competency, and any alleged reform will have to be informed by the simple fact that you can't ask people who barely got out of college themselves to rise to the level of star college professors.

Posted by: Ace at 09:22 AM | Comments (319)
Post contains 436 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Yay!

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 06, 2014 09:23 AM (wNF3N)

2 Jeepers, it must have been a fun night.

Posted by: Chaos the Other Dark Meat at May 06, 2014 09:23 AM (oDCMR)

3 "For example, some people claim" Sounds like an AP article/Obama template speech.

Posted by: pookysgirl at May 06, 2014 09:24 AM (tl+KL)

4 Seems legit to me.

Posted by: Muhammad Tyrone Islam Roosevelt at May 06, 2014 09:25 AM (ZPrif)

5 Those who can, do...

Posted by: garrett at May 06, 2014 09:25 AM (GGu/E)

6 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:25 AM (PYAXX)

7 Whew. I was about to get Nip going.

Posted by: golfman in NC at May 06, 2014 09:26 AM (vVOWk)

8 The school's superintendent is named Mohammed Izlam. I. Am. Shocked.

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 09:26 AM (7ObY1)

9 Afternoon Detritus: The Emstomppening

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 06, 2014 09:26 AM (oFCZn)

10 Eh, I'm not entirely sure though. Assessing propaganda is one thing. But when I took rhetoric in high school we weren't asked "Discuss whether you think X is true." especially about something like the holocaust. Instead it'd be "explain how X is convincing to people in spite of the fact that Y is reality." This does seem at least in part an attempt to put the idea in kids heads that the Holocaust may not have been in fact real.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) [/b] [/i] [/s] at May 06, 2014 09:26 AM (HDwDg)

11 ""For example, some people claim"
Sounds like an AP article/Obama template speech.
Posted by: pookysgirl at May 06, 2014 01:24 PM"

Strawman in the open...fire for effect!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (knoK7)

12 "The problem just seems to be one of incurably low competency, and any alleged reform will have to be informed by the simple fact that you can't ask people who barely got out of college themselves to rise to the level of star college professors."

Holocaust denial?

Sounds like they have already risen to the level of star college professors...

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (AC0lD)

13 The lesson plan, designed for eighth-graders, was supposed to help students ~~analyze~~ push propaganda. Fixed for accuracy.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (9Gy49)

14 No they don't need sensitivity training. Everyone that had anything to do with this crap should be fired and forbidden from getting any closer than a half a mile to any child. And there supervisors should all be fired as well.

It is the whole rotten system that is at fault. I have been calling for total elimination of all public schools for a long time. This is just more proof.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (T2V/1)

15 The lesson plan, designed for eighth-graders, was supposed to help students analyze propaganda. Just give them a New York Times.

Posted by: t-bird at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (FcR7P)

16 All your children are belong to us

Posted by: Mohammad Z. Islam at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (oFCZn)

17 Some people claim the Elders of Zion made the whole thing up, while other claim it was ZOG who exaggerated a misunderstanding. Please analyze these alternatives and choose one over the other.

Posted by: Kooky Kommon Kore at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (RD7QR)

18 How much of this is incompetence by the teachers / administration in designing the curriculum and how much of this is a window into what some of these decision-makers really think? I can guarantee you they wouldn't have decided to analyze the propaganda of groups like La Raza considering that Rialto is over 50% Hispanic.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (zVFRW)

19 Maybe something like this would be okay if and only if at the start of the assignment the actual facts of the Holocaust were laid out in stark detail.

Because the kids could use some training in spotting propaganda, considering how much of it is dumped on their heads every day at most public schools.

Posted by: GnuBreed at May 06, 2014 09:27 AM (wNF3N)

20 I've said it before, we have been teaching kids for over 380 years in America and apparently we do not know how to effectively educate them. I find this fascinating.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (Gdv4z)

21 Sensitivity training? Seriously doubt it - more like given a promotion, and given the Hero of the Revolution pin to display proudly.

Home schooling looks REALLY good now...

Posted by: Fred Zeppelin at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (zL/eJ)

22 What does this actually have to do with common core?

Posted by: slick at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (RIdwM)

23 The fact that the school superintendent is named "Mohammed Z. Islam" is pure coincidence, I'm sure. It's not like the Muslim community has a penchant for Holocaust denial or anything.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (SY2Kh)

24 Holocaust denial? Sounds like they have already risen to the level of star college professors... Sounds more like Star Chamber perfessers.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (9Gy49)

25 Slight correction: the school's superintendent's name is MOHAMMED Z. ISLAM I. Am. Still. Shocked.

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (7ObY1)

26 I read the kid's version of Anne Frank in the sixth grade. I would have smelled something funny by the eighth and asked my parents. Everyone in the class knew what the Holocaust was (although I only found out about David Irving's bullshit maybe in the tenth). Mum would have lost her shit if she'd seen it.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 06, 2014 09:28 AM (9MuqI)

27 2 Nah, they just gave up looking for me.

Posted by: Anonymous Scandi hobo who doesn't want to become jerky at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (Y+RlS)

28 "When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. Normally done by brain-dead idiots. I bet they left that part out.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (0HooB)

29 23 The fact that the school superintendent is named "Mohammed Z. Islam" is pure coincidence, I'm sure. It's not like the Muslim community has a penchant for Holocaust denial or anything. --- Who said anything about Holocaust denial? There was no Holocaust, just like there are no homosexuals in Iran.

Posted by: Rialto School Board Member Achmed Dinnerjacket at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (zVFRW)

30 25 Slight correction: the school's superintendent's name is
MOHAMMED Z. ISLAM

I. Am. Still. Shocked.

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 01:28 PM (7ObY1)

The "Z" stands for ZIONISTSDIE!

Posted by: Kooky Kommon Kore at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (RD7QR)

31 The lesson plan, designed for eighth-graders, was supposed to help students analyze propaganda. "When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. "For example, some people claim the Holocaust is not an actual historical event but instead is a propaganda tool that was used for political and monetary gain." Except... "analyzing propaganda" is not what that assignment would do unless it were designed to teach that the Holocaust didn't happen. That assignment, designed for "critical thinking" would be about examining historical evidence- an actual worthwhile lesson for 8th graders. If you wanted 8th graders to "analyze propaganda" you'd pick actual propaganda. You'd pick some of the posters and slogans that (say) Hitler and/or Stalin used. You'd even look at modern campaign posters/slogans/press releases. Those are examples of propaganda which can be analyzed. The only way you get to "analyzing propaganda" from the assignment as written is to assume that documents referencing the Holocaust are propaganda.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (PYAXX)

32 When I was in 8th grade, the war and the Holocaust were only 21 years or so back. There were articles in all the magazines, books, you name it. I certainly knew what the Nazis had done and what the camps meant.

Of course I'm talking about a day when you were actually supposed to, yanno, learn useful stuff in school. Unlike now.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 06, 2014 09:29 AM (yQq8A)

33 16All your children are belong to us

Posted by: Mohammad Z. Islam

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So what's the 'Z' stand for? Zionist suck?

Posted by: Countrysquire at May 06, 2014 09:30 AM (eEBON)

34 Well obviously this wasn't Jewish teacher.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 06, 2014 09:30 AM (0FSuD)

35 Hobos taste like roadkill!

Posted by: Killerdog at May 06, 2014 09:30 AM (jAPAW)

36 35 16All your children are belong to usPosted by: Mohammad Z. Islam ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So what's the 'Z' stand for? Zionist suck? --- Zyklon B.

Posted by: Mohammed Z. Islam at May 06, 2014 09:30 AM (zVFRW)

37 It's such a good thing that we live in America, where we don't take away the money and possessions of Jews who have broken no laws. Oh, wait...Donald Sterling. Never mind.

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 09:30 AM (7ObY1)

38 So why didn't they base this exercise on actual propaganda? Not sure I understand why they had to take a factual, historical event - where there are still a few survivors - and then teach it as it it were open to dispute.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (8zTpe)

39 Sensitivity Training = Those people were mean to you.. and insensitive... when calling you on the carpet for being propaganda pushing assholes.

Posted by: sweet...ish at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (bj+Nc)

40 7 Whew. I was about to get Nip going. Posted by: golfman in NC at May 06, 2014 01:26 PM (vVOWk) LOL! AND TRUE!

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (0FSuD)

41 The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders. Exactly. There is something to be learned from analyzing propaganda and conspiracy theories and why those things work. There's something to be learned once you've got a basic structure in place. But starting from hey kids! Let's discuss all these crazy ideas and then you tell me which one you like! is, what's the word, what's the word, idiotic. I think Clueless summed this up nicely actually: http://youtu.be/oLEdZb4PkGM

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (mf5HN)

42 "asked students to explain whether they "believe"..." Is there a wrong answer here? I would say not. YAY! Everyone gets a trophy.

Posted by: golfman in NC at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (vVOWk)

43 "The only way you get to "analyzing propaganda" from the assignment as written is to assume that documents referencing the Holocaust are propaganda. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 01:29 PM"

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!!11!!!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (knoK7)

44 10 This does seem at least in part an attempt to put the idea in kids heads that the Holocaust may not have been in fact real. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 06, 2014 01:26 PM (HDwDg) Ya think? I'm sure Mr. Mo Islam didn't mean anything by it.

Posted by: Chique at May 06, 2014 09:31 AM (CSVeI)

45 I wonder if they defined "propaganda" at all?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (0HooB)

46 Why are there no names as to who exactly came up with the lesson plan? It just mysteriously, magically showed up like the Benghazi Talking Points?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (ZPrif)

47 "Having failed at teaching kids the most basic elementary information possible, such as when WWII was fought, and why, and so on, educational professionals have decided that the key to doing their jobs better is to become more ambitious in what they teach." And this is the most astute point in your commentary. It seems as though every few years they come up with a "new" method of teaching, and year after year they routinely create a pathetic result when compared to the methods used in the first half of the 20th century. When they can equal the quality of the older methods of teaching, then they may have an argument for invoking a new teaching method. Till then they need to stop trying to bullshit us with their stupid and childish theories.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (bb5+k)

48 .... *gibbers*

Anne Frank's diary was a hoax?

I am sorry to say I was right yesterday when I wrote The Protocols of Common Core.

Stupid human ape creatures... may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits for peddling such ignorance and hate.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (mn8eY)

49 Slight correction: the school's superintendent's name is MOHAMMED Z. ISLAM I. Am. Still. Shocked. At least it wasn't CharlieBrownsDildo.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (9Gy49)

50 the rage......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 06, 2014 09:32 AM (u8GsB)

51 When I think of Rialto, I think of gangbangland. Seriously, it's where a lot of them moved.

Posted by: Pug Justice at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (3U9Bd)

52 16 All your children are belong to us Posted by: Mohammad Z. Islam at May 06, 2014 01:27 PM (oFCZn) Not all, we got 260 of them? What to buy one?

Posted by: Boko Haram at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (0FSuD)

53 At least it wasn't CharlieBrownsDildo. Or Laurie David's Cervix

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (7ObY1)

54 If they want to analyze propaganda just give them one of Obama's speeches.

There are two things that make an item propaganda. The first is that it is trying to influence the listener, usually in dealing with politics. The second is that it is a lie. That is the content of every Obama speech that has ever been made.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (T2V/1)

55 yeah Ace is right, this is not an age-appropriate exercise for eighth graders.

but another point is: even if this assignment were given to more mature students (HS seniors or college students), it would STILL be offlimits, in the current world that we occupy.

for heaven's sake, if it is going to be a thoughtcrime now to even say bigots have the right to be bigots, then this assignment is also offlimits.

live by the PC sword, die by the PC sword.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (9GG/0)

56 39 It's such a good thing that we live in America, where we don't take away the money and possessions of Jews who have broken no laws. Oh, wait...Donald Sterling. Never mind. --- I'm going to enjoy Sterling crawling up the NBA's ass with a bunch of high-powered law firms. If you're going to go after someone litigious, do it all above-board. Making up a brand-new interpretation of the NBA constitution because Sterling's PR poison is a good way to ensure this shit show stays in the news until he dies of prostate cancer.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (zVFRW)

57 Of course, these people don't think Israel exists either.

Posted by: Countrysquire at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (eEBON)

58 Next up for the Rialto School District and School Superintendent Mohammed Islam-Proving that kidnapping by Boko Haram is beneficial for young Nigerian girls in the long run?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (XyM/Y)

59 8 The school's superintendent is named Mohammed Izlam. I. Am. Shocked. Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 01:26 PM (7ObY1). My first thought also.

Posted by: traye at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (4ybQ/)

60 Ace, If you read George Weigel's biography of Pope John PaulII, you'll note that from his perspective World War II didn't end until those nations absorbed by the Warsaw Pact were freed in the late '80s/early '90s.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at May 06, 2014 09:33 AM (0TLhG)

61 25 Slight correction: the school's superintendent's name is
MOHAMMED Z. ISLAM

I. Am. Still. Shocked.
*
*
Turn it around: Jesus Z. Christian. Even if you pronounced the first name Hay-soos, it still would look like a pseudonym. Or what I swear up and down when I'm stuck in traffic.

Maybe that's how the guy got his name. "Mohammed Z. Islam, why isn't this *?^%? lane moving!?"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (yQq8A)

62 Yeah, that Anne Frank and her hoax diary. Drag a hundred dollar bill through a secret hiding place.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (Mogjf)

63 Someone ask Jeb Bush if this is the Common Core curriculum he endorses.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (XO6WW)

64 They should also closely investigate the lunar landing, whether jets can bring down skyscrapers, and whether conservatives are really Americans

Posted by: kathysaysso at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (jPT60)

65 The problem just seems to be one of incurably low competency, and any alleged reform will have to be informed by the simple fact that you can't ask people who barely got out of college themselves to rise to the level of ~~star college professors~~ President. Isn't this...........

Posted by: Roland THTG at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (QM5S2)

66 AP, you were dead on with the Protocols of Common Core. Also, yes, I was aware of the new Godzilla clip. I may have watched it once or twice. Few times. Barely noticeable.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (mf5HN)

67 My file for "Reasons Why I Home School My Children" is quite massive at this point.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at May 06, 2014 09:34 AM (qFpRI)

68 We just need to break state control over education. We need to blow it to pieces so it doesn't lend itself to statist revisionism or other causes. How about we have an education system to teach children things they might need to know to function in a civil society?

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 09:35 AM (bb5+k)

69 Forget the specifics for a moment. This crap is the Common "Core"? WTF? It's an intellectual game at best. "Analyzing propaganda" shouldn't be core education material, period. They're kids. They don't know shit. Teach them shit before they start analyzing it.

Posted by: AmishDude at May 06, 2014 09:35 AM (b65cm)

70 Didn't WW2 start when the Germans bombed Hiroshima in 1914?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at May 06, 2014 09:35 AM (0LHZx)

71 All indications were Benghazi was a terrorist attack. But President Obama sent out talking heads that claimed the attack came due to a video that criticized Islam. Discuss the propaganda success of the Obama strategy. 45 points.

Posted by: Sphynx at May 06, 2014 09:35 AM (OZmbA)

72 Turn it around: Jesus Z. Christian. Even if you pronounced the first name Hay-soos, it still would look like a pseudonym. Or what I swear up and down when I'm stuck in traffic. --- Nobody fucks with the Jesus! You try that stuff with me, I shove that gun up your ass and pull the trigger till it goes "click"!

Posted by: Jesus Quintana at May 06, 2014 09:36 AM (zVFRW)

73 If I had a son, he'd look like Mohammed Z. Islam.

Posted by: President Barack Obama at May 06, 2014 09:36 AM (7ObY1)

74 Also note that the lesson plan instructs students to read from "multiple, credible sources", implying that both points of view are represented by "credible" arguments.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 06, 2014 09:36 AM (SY2Kh)

75 Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 01:32 PM (bb5+k) There's a major problem in education in this country- it's that teachers don't actually understand learning. So they're taught different "methods" of teaching, and they don't understand which ones are correct for which kids. They don't understand *why* what works, works. So you mostly get teachers who always want to try the newest thing- regardless of what results they're currently getting OR teachers who refuse to change anything- regardless of what results they're currently getting. There *is* a time when you need to change your teaching methods. There are times when the new method really is better than the old method. But you have to understand learning to know when those times are.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:36 AM (PYAXX)

76 My 8th grade history class spent the whole 2nd semester on the JFK assassination cause my teacher was a nutter. We had to write a paper on who *really* did it. Only way to get an F was to say it was the commie loser Oswald who did it cause he was a commie loser with delusions of grandeur. I think my final paper said it was the mob+Cubans+LBJ. Nobody noticed, nobody's parents complained. I didn't tell my parents until years later when I realized my teacher was a nutter and had totally abused his authority. It was American history and he ignored everything but JFK, cause nutter.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at May 06, 2014 09:37 AM (ZPrif)

77 This reminds me of one of my favorite Thomas Sowell columns, from 1988: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/n56o6">A Childish Letter</a>

If this were just one kid who has gotten too big for his britches, then it would only be a small part of the passing parade of human foibles. But school children all across the country are being encouraged or assigned to engage in letter-writing campaigns, taking up the time of people ranging from journalists to congressmen and presidents. Worse, these pupils are led to believe that having opinions is more important than knowing what you are talking about.

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 09:37 AM (bvlUm)

78 76 If I had a son, he'd look like Mohammed Z. Islam. Posted by: President Barack Obama at May 06, 2014 01:36 PM (7ObY1) --- If I had a son, it would look like Supreme Solar Allah. Oh, wait...

Posted by: Rep. Gwen Moore (Dumbass-WI) at May 06, 2014 09:37 AM (zVFRW)

79 Hitler: Roguish scamp or mischievous rapscallion. Discuss.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 06, 2014 09:37 AM (BrQrN)

80 Allen G wins the thread. Wish he had a blog to explain it all for us

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 06, 2014 09:37 AM (9MuqI)

81 I think the problem is deeper than a lack of sensitivity. The problem just seems to be one of incurably low competency, and any alleged reform will have to be informed by the simple fact that you can't ask people who barely got out of college themselves to rise to the level of star college professors. Incompetence is the new "in" competence!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 06, 2014 09:38 AM (HsTG8)

82 At least it wasn't CharlieBrownsDildo.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 06, 2014 01:32 PM (9Gy49)

But I taught him everything he knows.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 06, 2014 09:38 AM (QFxY5)

83 Effed up the link, but you can find it there, or I can try again: Link

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 09:38 AM (bvlUm)

84 Let's play the old 'What if a conservative did this' game. Imagine the uproar if this had happened at a private Christian school. It would probably dominate the news cycle for a week.

Posted by: Countrysquire at May 06, 2014 09:38 AM (eEBON)

85 #winning

Posted by: Zombie Bin Laden [/i] [/b] at May 06, 2014 09:38 AM (5ikDv)

My brain staggered when I read that report. I could not conceive anyone coming up with an assignment like that. What's next? Ante-Bellum America: Hey, Slavery Was Really Okay And Stuff, Dude. Or perhaps The Other-Other White Meat: The Case For Cannibalism.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Wash and Wax Your Wroth at the Outrage Outlet! at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (hLRSq)

87 Nah, I'm not trying again:

http://tinyurl.com/n56o6

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (bvlUm)

88 Notropis: charter schools are big offenders here. The ones we got in Denver basically train kids to be activists for the Left.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (9MuqI)

89 Well well, I never would have suspected Jeb Bush was an anti-Semite.

Posted by: Republique De Banana at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (thLL8)

90 This does seem at least in part an attempt to put the idea in kids heads that the Holocaust may not have been in fact real.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at May 06, 2014 01:26 PM (HDwDg)

Yup. Points for sneaky pete perniciousness.

btw, the bulk of this AGW/global warming/climate change agitprop isn't aimed at us, at adults. It's children. They're aiming it at children. They're thinking long game here.

Veering somewhat off-topic, I've ceased watching 'Game of Thrones' (not that it matters). Watching a fairly heavy duty porn scene on that show a few weeks ago, it occurred to me that any show with dragons, princesses, knights in armor and magic will be a magnet for children, parental filters be damned. Another thing? There is no good or bad in that particular fantasy universe. There is only opportunity and circumstance. The good guys can't win if there are no good guys, and I find the whole idea morally repugnant.

Posted by: troyriser at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (gNlvW)

91 Dude we technically entered the war the day after Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: Jay at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (tMH+M)

92 Also, yes, I was aware of the new Godzilla clip. I may have watched it once or twice. Few times. Barely noticeable. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 01:34 PM (mf5HN) So *you* are the reason I kept getting "service not available" last night.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (PYAXX)

93 Nobody fucks with the Jesus! You try that stuff with me, I shove that gun up your ass and pull the trigger till it goes "click"! Posted by: Jesus Quintana at May 06, 2014 01:36 PM (zVFRW) "Fucking Quintana."

Posted by: The Dude at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (GGu/E)

94 Most kids in 8th grade don't CARE about history. It isn't until they are a little bit older that they start to pay attention, because all of a sudden they are able to put themselves in that situation. When you are 13, 14 years old, you're having a hard enough time trying to deal with all of those new hormones coursing through your body - the brain is undergoing tremendous changes, and quite frankly, analytical thought about things that happened over 60 years ago just isn't something the teenaged brain is able to do. Three or four years later, and you might be able to start doing it. What ever happened to the sequential ramping-up of knowledge, consistent with the KNOWN abilities of the majority of students at any given age? You have to be able to walk before you can learn to run - sounds like these idiots expect kids who haven't yet learned how to crawl to be participating in the Boston Marathon.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth (@Teresa_Koch) at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (PZ6/M)

95 The first mention of Holocaust I can remember in school was 9th grade World History. I had one of the best teachers ever for that class. He spent 3 full classes on how WW1 started, with background stories, little side notes. Made it really interesting. I still remember today pretty much everything he taught. Amazing how that was all done without Common Core standards, huh? I actually learned something useful.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at May 06, 2014 09:39 AM (0LHZx)

96 61 Next up for the Rialto School District and School Superintendent Mohammed Islam-Proving that kidnapping by Boko Haram is beneficial for young Nigerian girls in the long run? Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 06, 2014 01:33 PM (XyM/Y) Eh, their parents probably sucked so their most likely in better hands now. / Islam/Jew-hating/crazee apologist

Posted by: Chique at May 06, 2014 09:40 AM (CSVeI)

97 Barely noticeable.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 01:34 PM (mf5HN)

Godzilla.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 06, 2014 09:40 AM (QFxY5)

98 73 Didn't WW2 start when the Germans bombed Hiroshima in 1914? Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at May 06, 2014 01:35 PM (0LHZx) Hmm... Maybe it really was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: rickl at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (zoehZ)

99 You plop them down in front of the old Thames TV 'World At War' series and let them listen to Olivier for a while.

Posted by: JEM at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (o+SC1)

100 91 Or perhaps The Other-Other White Meat: The Case For Cannibalism. --- Hand-Burgers, Eye-Scream, Spaghetti with Pete's Balls, Pete-Loaf, Fettucini Long Pork Alfredo...

Posted by: Zombie Jeffery Dahmer at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (zVFRW)

101 Didn't WW2 start when the Germans bombed Hiroshima in 1914? It was all over television at the time.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (0HooB)

102 And one other quote from the Sowell column:

Assigning students to write letters and papers on vast topics is training them in irresponsibility. It is putting the cart before the horse. There will never be a shortage of ignorant audacity. What is always scarce is thorough knowledge and carefully reasoned analysis, systematically checked against factual evidence.

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (bvlUm)

103 If they made a serious effort to teach the Roman Triumver to kids ( Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric ), the kids would ride these libtard instructors out of their own schools on a rail. True. Which brings us back to that whole "long march" thing.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (PYAXX)

104 The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders.

Phyllis Schafly was screaming about this crap back in the 1980s, only back then they called it "values clarification". If was stuff like asking the "who would you throw out of the lifeboat" type questions - of 3rd and 4th graders

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (I8YZX)

105

Knew about the Holocaust by the time I was in the 5th grade. My history teacher in the 7th grade brought in a German (not Jewish) friend of his that was sent to the death camps for helping Jews escape Germany.

He went around the class and showed all of us the number branded on the top of his hand. Then we watched newsreels of the discovery and "clean-up" of said camps.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 09:41 AM (J2R4f)

106 There *is* a time when you need to change your teaching methods. There are times when the new method really is better than the old method. But you have to understand learning to know when those times are. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 01:36 PM (PYAXX) Have you seen those eight grade tests from around 1900? I daresay most modern college grads probably couldn't pass them.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (bb5+k)

107

Please analyse the propaganda from Fox News saying White House official lied when correctly blaming the Benghazi attacks on a Youtube video insulting glorious Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him).

Bonus question: Is Fox News somewhat culpable in the deaths of four Americans by trying to cover up the true story.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (BrQrN)

108 What did you learn in school today, Sally?

Oh, something about Jews and their hollow crust, but it didn't happen like that, or something. Anyway, Rosie the Riveter was cool.

Posted by: Sphynx at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (OZmbA)

109 Ok, let's assume a world in which these vile asshats are sincere and don't deserve to be dropped into a latrine with their mouths wired open. They want to have the 8th graders analyze examples of propaganda from the WWII era. It's a bullshit exercise for kids who barely even know who the main combatants were in that war but whatever...

Alrighty then....

Why the fuck didn't you choose the metric fucktons of Nazi propaganda posters depicting Jews and others as less than human!?!?

But there's no hidden agenda here. Right, Mo?

Posted by: B at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (Pson9)

110 This week's assignment: The Clitoris: Threat or Menace?

Posted by: Muhammad Tyrone Islam Roosevelt at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (ZPrif)

111 Alexthechick: "analyzing propaganda" was the figleaf used to disguise this moslem propaganda as something acceptable as gradeschool curriculum. Posted by: Kristophr at May 06, 2014 01:33 PM (0zVEV) Dude, I'm not defending what happened in this case. It's actually a very vicious attempt at propaganda itself. All I am saying is that analyzing propaganda techniques can be a valuable intellectual exercise in appropriate circumstances. That's it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (mf5HN)

112 This is solely to plant the seed of Anti-Semitism. That's the only reason to expose those who are ignorant of History to this.

Posted by: garrett at May 06, 2014 09:42 AM (GGu/E)

113 You know the Blue's Brothers are our agents right? http://tinyurl.com/mdswah8

Posted by: Boko Haram at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (0FSuD)

114 "He who controls the education apparatus can destroy the apparatus."

*shakes head*

Before I blow a gasket, going to back to finish up that story for Kindle Single publication.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (mn8eY)

115 And next week, Mohammed Z. Islam will have his students prepare an analysis of "The Elder Protocols of Zion". - The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, fascist fraud or revealed truth?

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (Mogjf)

116 This week's assignment: The Clitoris: Mythic Threat or Mythic Menace?

Posted by: garrett at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (GGu/E)

117 So I guess the biology assignment about Jews having big noses and lips is off now, huh?

Posted by: Mohammed Z. Islam at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (cL+9V)

118 I daresay most modern college grads probably couldn't pass them. --- I'd have to see them to make sure, but I'm taking a guess that most of the people who would flunk it went through the Fine Arts, Liberal Arts, or Education / Psychology departments, as those were the ones with the lowest standards at my college. Business, engineering, and the sciences, though? They tend to have people who know how to do stuff other than kiss ass.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 09:43 AM (zVFRW)

119 If they want to teach propaganda, just have them watch the alphabets and notice what stories they deem important (racist basketball guy) vs what they leave out (President lied about Benghazi)

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at May 06, 2014 09:44 AM (9Bdcz)

120 Some say that suicide-bombing is the greatest form of worship to Allah. Others say that it is merely the sworn duty of every devout Muslim who want to be rewarded in the afterlife.

Posted by: Durka Durka Muhammad Islam Z Jihad [/i] [/b] at May 06, 2014 09:45 AM (5ikDv)

121 Banned? Really? Fcuk this noise...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 06, 2014 09:45 AM (kiyD3)

122 Did you look at the ethnic makeup of the Rialto district's student body? That's pretty much the face of California public education today. And if you're going to make them American citizens, you're going to have to start with and hammer on the basics all the way up. I'd been studying the Civil War for a while before I realized "hey, none of MY relatives were in the US then..." I'm still trying to figure out how my father's family got here. I might have enough of some 'first nations' in me to get something out of the Canadian government.

Posted by: JEM at May 06, 2014 09:45 AM (o+SC1)

123 115 Heh.

Posted by: golfman in NC at May 06, 2014 09:45 AM (vVOWk)

124 Banned? Really? You are nobody until you have been thrice banned.

Posted by: garrett at May 06, 2014 09:46 AM (GGu/E)

125 The worst part about this is that they are training the next generation so they will kill us off when we are old. Someone said that we are in the 1930s Germany stage. I am starting to believe it

Posted by: The Jackhole at May 06, 2014 09:46 AM (nTgAI)

126 Didn't WW2 start when the Germans bombed Hiroshima in 1914? It was all over television at the time. It would have been nice if someone would have tweeted it.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 06, 2014 09:46 AM (9Gy49)

127 Here is an unaltered email I just received from an address ending in "atlantapersonalinjuryattoreyblog.com" ******************************** Good afternoon! You has the fines for property tax. Sum: $573.92 ===Detailed announcement is in the attached ZIP-archive=== You gotta verify questionnaire before: July 22th 2014. Differently you'll get court claim. Yours sincerely, Superior of Michigan Department of Revenue. Hazel Flowers +1 (805) 545-39-47 ********************************** Obviously a product of public schools. Look legit to me, so I'm sending her some money.

Posted by: jwest at May 06, 2014 09:46 AM (u2a4R)

128 who would you throw out of the lifeboat" - I'm thinking Michael Moore.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (Mogjf)

129 You're right that a major problem is that history is not being taught in schools. I'm not sure I agree that 8th grade is too young for this type of assignment. Much would depend on what course it was part of and what other lessons and assignments had preceded it. Critical reading skills and argumentation based on facts are important. Reading this particular assignment, including the time allotted, I'm not convinced this is the best way to teach those skills. I'm troubled by the 135 minute time-limit (is that projected time to complete the project or what?) and the possible reliance on three articles (w/ the possible option of a teacher "allowing" students to use additional independently research sources).

Posted by: Y-not at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (zDsvJ)

130 Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 01:42 PM (bb5+k) On the flip side, most 8th graders in 1900 couldn't pass most Standardized 8th grade math tests. Not that I'd call it a wash or anything, but we leave a lot of stuff out that doesn't matter anymore for whatever reason in order to get to stuff that's more advanced and will be relevant. Example- IIRC, when I was in 4th grade, I was introduced to fractions, and basic addition & subtraction of same. In 5th grade, I was introduced to things like simplification of fractions. My 1st grader son (doing 3rd grade math) is already doing those things. If a kid waited until 5th grade to learn to simply fractions, find common denominators, etc., he'd be way-frickin'-behind. Which says nothing about the *methods* used to teach, but neither does your comment.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (PYAXX)

131 This has nothing to do with the content being to hard for gradeschool kids.

It has everything to do with some rabid anti-semite worming his way into a position of authority.

Everyone involved needs to be named, shamed, and shunned. Including the yes boys and girls who thought it was consensus-like to just support this crap.

Posted by: Kristophr at May 06, 2014 01:29 PM (0zVEV)

I guarantee that the educrats would have pushed back hard against any parent who tried to pitch a bitch about this before it reached this level. It was my experience, including having a wife active in the PTA, that the public school dictators want full autonomy from having to be accountable to the parents and actively resent anything indicating otherwise.,

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (qiiIB)

132 Hey all I've been very busy. Hope all is well with the Horde. Just popped in to say hi. I wanted to make sure the place wasn't broken. We went from the original topic to Hobo recipe's to the clitoris. Glad to know that at least in a small corner of the intertwebs all is right with the universe. Broke 100 thought and no mention of bewbs. You guys are slipping.

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (/KiIU)

133 You are nobody until you have been thrice banned. Posted by: garrett at May 06, 2014 01:46 PM (GGu/E) Never. Not. Funny.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 09:47 AM (mf5HN)

134 Maybe we should assign these kids to read The Wave or Number the Stars instead of have them analyze stupid EPA or PETA propaganda? Ridiculous, I know. >>> 98 Most kids in 8th grade don't CARE about history. It isn't until they are a little bit older that they start to pay attention, because all of a sudden they are able to put themselves in that situation. When you are 13, 14 years old, you're having a hard enough time trying to deal with all of those new hormones coursing through your body - the brain is undergoing tremendous changes, and quite frankly, analytical thought about things that happened over 60 years ago just isn't something the teenaged brain is able to do. Actually Teresa I adored history as a kid, read a lot of historical fiction. I ate up the Little House on a Prairie, the American Girls series, etc. But I actively sought that out on my own, and my parents bought me those books knowing I liked them, encouraged my interest. I don't think school today gears itself to teaching kids to love history and connect it to their own lives, which is a shame.

Posted by: LizLem at May 06, 2014 09:48 AM (yRwC8)

135 Someone who knows very little about the subject will naturally find the "Other Point of View" pretty powerful because he doesn't know anything. He has no already-established historical database in his head. And really, isn't this the story of Obama.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 06, 2014 09:48 AM (v0/PR)

136 100 The first mention of Holocaust I can remember in school was 9th grade World History. I had one of the best teachers ever for that class. He spent 3 full classes on how WW1 started, with background stories, little side notes. Made it really interesting. I still remember today pretty much everything he taught. Amazing how that was all done without Common Core standards, huh? I actually learned something useful. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at May 06, 2014 01:39 PM (0LHZx) We studied World War II in the sixth grade. My teacher was a former Marine and he had a strong interest in WWII history. He even mentioned Hitlers persecution of the Jews. He pointed to each member of the class and said "You'd be safe", or "You'd be taken" depending on what we looked like. He was the best teacher I ever had. He made the history seem real and frightening.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 09:48 AM (bb5+k)

137 >>Then we watched newsreels of the discovery and "clean-up" of said camps. Yes, we watched this in 10th grade History class. It was monstrous. Our school was also visited by actor Robert Clary, who survived the death camps when he was a kid. Here's something they should've used for this exercise: 9/11 conspiracy theories. Except that progs encourage this crap. My local PBS station shows "Loose Change" all the time when it's not showing glowing La Raza documentaries.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 09:49 AM (8zTpe)

138 I'd been studying the Civil War for a while before I realized "hey, none of MY relatives were in the US then..." --- Want these kids to connect with teaching the Civil War? Focus on the ill-fated western campaign of General Sibley, which is generally ignored by everyone outside of Sergio Leone. Hell, I was wondering how much of The Good The Bad And The Ugly was bullshit at first because that was a side of the war which doesn't get mentioned by most people.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 09:49 AM (zVFRW)

139 >>The fact that the school superintendent is named "Mohammed Z. Islam" is pure coincidence, I'm sure. Seems legit to me.

Posted by: Jesus H. Christ on a Pony at May 06, 2014 09:49 AM (jSUU1)

140 Today's assignment - "The Food Pyramid: Ancient Wisdom From Egypt's Gods or Loving Benevolence From She of the Toned Arms"

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 06, 2014 09:49 AM (kiyD3)

141 If they want to analyze propaganda then any issue of the NY Times will suffice for material.

Posted by: airandee at May 06, 2014 09:49 AM (FCyvO)

142 So is this what we need to teach kids so they can make $10.10 / hr these days?

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at May 06, 2014 09:50 AM (R5UOB)

143 134 Here is an unaltered email I just received from an address ending in "atlantapersonalinjuryattoreyblog.com"

********************************

Good afternoon!

You has the fines for property tax.
Sum: $573.92

===Detailed announcement is in the attached ZIP-archive===

You gotta verify questionnaire before: July 22th 2014.
Differently you'll get court claim.

Yours sincerely,
Superior of Michigan Department of Revenue.
Hazel Flowers
+1 (805) 545-39-47

**********************************
*
*
Idiocracy. Kornbluth's "The Marching Morons" come to life.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 06, 2014 09:50 AM (yQq8A)

144 Someone who knows very little about the subject will naturally find the "Other Point of View" pretty powerful because he doesn't know anything. He has no already-established historical database in his head. You speak of this as if it's a BAD thing

Posted by: J Goebbels, Dept of Education at May 06, 2014 09:52 AM (aTXUx)

145 Ace, I think you nailed it. 8th graders don't know what's TRUE about WWII; how are they going to recognize what's FALSE? I wish it were new. For decades the movement has been to throw out studying anything about "dead white men" to broaden horizons and include everyone, not realizing that the students haven't learned yet what it's taken them a lifetime to accumulate. Now we wonder why anyone under 25 doesn't know jack about our Founding Fathers. Reap what you sow, fools. My homeschooled kids will either rule the world or be first against the wall.

Posted by: Steve the Pirate's Wife at May 06, 2014 09:52 AM (loQuV)

146 Meanwhile, Americans scholastic scores keep falling.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:52 AM (0HooB)

147 Posted by: jwest at May 06, 2014 01:46 PM

Sounds like the Nigerian scam emails a lot of lawyers get.* Those are absolutely hilarious. I really shouldn't be surprised at how many lawyers actually fall for that crap.

*And what, is May Nigerian Scam Email Month or something? If I get one more fucking spam email from some 3rd world asshole named Dr. Achmoud Mujahd....

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (knoK7)

148 >>Here's something they should've used for this exercise: 9/11 conspiracy theories. Except that progs encourage this crap. My local PBS station shows "Loose Change" all the time when it's not showing glowing La Raza documentaries.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 01:49 PM (8zTpe)<<<<

For REAL? Loose Change? Where do you live/which PBS station? I'd like to know. Do they offer an alternative view?

Posted by: Sphynx at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (OZmbA)

149 Want these kids to connect with teaching the Civil War? Focus on the ill-fated western campaign of General Sibley, which is generally ignored by everyone outside of Sergio Leone. What he didn't ignore, he butchered. "Hurrah for General Lee!" "Hurrah for General Grant!" Neither man held top command in their respect sides' armies at the time of the Sibley campaign. Shelby Foote covered this campaign, though.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (kiyD3)

150 @NewsBreaker DETAILS: White House says a US team will head to Nigeria to help in the search for kidnapped schoolgirls

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (v0/PR)

151 Zionist propaganda must be examined critically. It ties into 9-11 truth and the illegal wars that enriched the international bankers.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (IHK0Z)

152

47I wonder if they defined "propaganda" at all?

We have it on good authority that it is a Yiddish word

Posted by: Common Core at May 06, 2014 09:53 AM (SO2Q8)

153 Wow, a whole lotta pent up demand to post.

Posted by: Chaos the Other Dark Meat at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (oDCMR)

154 Never too early to start "other- izing" the Jews!

Posted by: Zombie Goebbels, cackling in hell at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (5ikDv)

155

There's one other item of note in the link about the sensitivity training (i.e. the article about the death threats that Mr. Islam has been receiving). The article notes that the Holocaust problem isn't being removed. Instead, it's being "fixed" by removing the sentence "Did the Holocaust occur?" Based on the article, everything else is being left intact - i.e. all of the spurious evidence regarding the non-existance of the Holocaust is apparently being left in place.

The kids will pick up on it. They're not stupid. They'll realize that they're being told, in essence, that the Holocaust didn't happen. It'll just be a bit more subtle.

Posted by: junior at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (UWFpX)

156

We were shown a Holocaust movie in 7th grade. Very graphic, naked bodies, bulldozers, ovens. It was the first time I had heard of the Holocaust. Needless to say, it made a deep first impression.

I guess we're living in an ahistorical time. People said we needed Spielberg's movie so that we'd know what happened. I've been to Dachau, I don't need the movie.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (JtwS4)

157 9/11: Inside Job? Or the work of Mossad?

Discuss!

Posted by: Mohammad Z. Islam at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (9GG/0)

158 I'm still trying to figure out how my father's family got here. Posted by: JEM at May 06, 2014 01:45 PM (o+SC1) Father's and Mother's. I have not a clue. I have a picture of the old parental grandmother's log cabin in Sweden, but that's it. So fuck you race baiters. I'm off the hook. In fact, ....I may have to get some sweet reparations from the Vikings! I want a big boat with oarsmen and a horned helmet. I'll settle for nubile bikini-team babes packing ice gold Labatts Blue. Address available upon successful completion of litigation.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (l+90U)

159 I'd been studying the Civil War for a while before I realized "hey, none of MY relatives were in the US then..." I'm still trying to figure out how my father's family got here. I might have enough of some 'first nations' in me to get something out of the Canadian government. Posted by: JEM at May 06, 2014 01:45 PM (o+SC1) None of my European family line was in the US at that time either. My Indian ancestors were, but I'm thinking they really weren't participants.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (bb5+k)

160 Sphynx: it's a Denver-based PBS station, We have two, and one of them shows all of this radical stuff while the other sticks to the more traditional stuff like Irish folk dancing.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 09:54 AM (8zTpe)

161 They never taught us WWII in history (HS grad 1983). I had to learn it on the streets.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at May 06, 2014 09:55 AM (SO2Q8)

162 With all the various teaching theories and methods one thing remains true. The kids who want to learn, learn.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 09:55 AM (Mogjf)

163 So is this what we need to teach kids so they can make $10.10 / hr these days? I guess. It'd be really nice if they knew how to make change from $10.10.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:56 AM (0HooB)

164

>>>He was the best teacher I ever had. He made the history seem real and frightening.

Those are the best kind of history teachers. I had a prof who was a czech soldier during WW2, briefly. He told us about being almost lynched by Hungarians for messing with a girl, getting bombed by Russians, Germans and Americans, his capture and liberation, joining up with the Allies, etc.

Posted by: Bigby's Fisticuffs at May 06, 2014 09:56 AM (3ZtZW)

165 >>>If you wanted 8th graders to "analyze propaganda" you'd pick actual propaganda. You'd pick some of the posters and slogans that (say) Hitler and/or Stalin used. You'd even look at modern campaign posters/slogans/press releases. Those are examples of propaganda which can be analyzed. Nah, brah. All that is like, a million years ago, dude. Want propaganda? Why not look at everything that has come out of the media since 2007 or so. Why not study Obamacare from first pitch through last year? For a more historical perspective, students could visit Jay Carney's house and see his Stalin era poster collection.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 09:56 AM (j0wOO)

166 Since it is a California public school, the other suggested curriculum is probably fisting barnyard animals

Posted by: model_1066 at May 06, 2014 09:56 AM (yaeMF)

167 OT: omg, where's peaches? Send to her to drudge for the Brady story Ha!!!

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 06, 2014 09:56 AM (LGo3Q)

168 >>>>Eighth graders barely even know what The Holocaust is in the first place. As someone who visited the Holocaust museum in DC in the 8th grade this is probably my only quibble with your post and analysis.

Posted by: Buzzion at May 06, 2014 09:57 AM (4VcZY)

169 I am just trying to help you analyze your mouth.

Posted by: Mega at May 06, 2014 09:57 AM (hHFOx)

170

I'd have to see them to make sure, but I'm taking a guess that most of the people who would flunk it went through the Fine Arts, Liberal Arts, or Education / Psychology departments, as those were the ones with the lowest standards at my college.

Business, engineering, and the sciences, though? They tend to have people who know how to do stuff other than kiss ass.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 01:43 PM (zVFRW)

I was a liberal arts major, creative writing and literature, and don't recall ever kissing anyone's ass. One of my creative writing professors was Elizabeth Arthur, whose novels and short story collections have been frequently been covered in the NYT Review of Books. Another former professor of mine, Ann Martin, is a poet whose work has helped put my home state on the literary map. I don't think you can say they write (and think) so beautifully because they're adept at kissing ass, either. They taught tough courses, with rigor and discipline.

Ironically for a liberal arts type, I've spent the bulk of my career working in and around the IT, pharmaceutical, and telecommunications industries. Yes, there are extraordinarily capable, technically and mathematically proficient people working in those fields. They are also, by and large, the most uncreative, self-restricting, flat-thinking bunch of people I've ever encountered. So there's that.

Posted by: troyriser at May 06, 2014 09:57 AM (gNlvW)

171

123So I guess the biology assignment about Jews having big noses and lips is off now, huh?

---

You ever see such low cheekbones?

Posted by: Sen E. Warren at May 06, 2014 09:57 AM (SO2Q8)

172 >>"When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. <<

Problem being, if you don't have a basis in established facts you can't reason as to whether they are true or not.

You can't "teach" a person to analyze a situation if they have no context.

In fact, that is the problem with propaganda. It can only be attacked with facts and truth. It melts propaganda like a blowtorch.

Summarily, this does not tech kids to "reason". It teaches them to further the propaganda by editorializing without context.

Sort of what is done by (I'll be kind here) "low information voters/news consumers today". They follow fallacious propaganda and the left's superheroes instead of facts, factual conclusions and true leaders.

In other words, this seeks to institutionalize what falsely leads people to believe the left today.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 09:58 AM (GGCsk)

173 For an exercise on propaganda, instead of taking a historical event and debating whether it happened, how about focusing on the different narratives used to describe it and analyzing the possible goals of the propagandists claiming it never happened.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 09:58 AM (8zTpe)

174 I guess we're living in an ahistorical time. People said we needed Spielberg's movie so that we'd know what happened. I've been to Dachau, I don't need the movie. I was wondering about all the evidence from the Holocaust and how that was magically ignored in this little lesson.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 09:59 AM (0HooB)

175 164- both, of course. The Mossad is owned by the House of Rothschild, and they bought several key members of the US government decades ago. It is a long term conspiracy.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 06, 2014 09:59 AM (IHK0Z)

176 Ace sez: "...we have kids that know practically nothing at all being asked to "analyze" the claims of people who, while ignorant, actually do know more than the kids themselves, and hence seem to be "authorities." " I know all too well how pernicious this problem can be, because I once got horribly involved in a significant dispute of just this type: I, as a comparatively ignorant person, was put in the position of decided which of two claims were correct, each side being championed by someone who appeared from my point of view to be quite knowledgable and authoritative, and yet each side claimed the other side was crazy and lying. As a person who knew less than either claimant, I was unable to decisively ascertain which was correct, even though one or the other, necessarily, was indeed crazy or lying, because the two rival claims were the exact opposite of each other. And just as in Ace's example, one's sympathy naturally tends to lie with the "outsider" or the "underdog," so I unwittingly favored the "challenger" in the dispute, even though the rival side insisted with rising fury that the challenger was a buffoon and a maniac. Putting children in the position of ascertaining something like the viability of Holocaust Denial is guaranteed to produce a significant portion of kids who embrace the counter-narrative. Any adult with a half a brain would realize this -- that kids "'rebel" by embracing the counter-cultural underdog stance -- and that therefore whoever designed this assignment did so for the purpose of creating a new generation of Holocaust deniers. There is no other explanation. It was a nefarious attempt at double-reverse indoctrination.

Posted by: zombie at May 06, 2014 09:59 AM (mizYg)

177

135who would you throw out of the lifeboat"

-
I'm thinking Michael Moore.

But you could feast on me for weeks!

Posted by: M. Moore, white meat at May 06, 2014 09:59 AM (SO2Q8)

178 DETAILS: White House says a US team will head to Nigeria to help in the search for kidnapped schoolgirls Joe Biden is already practicing holding a dagger in his mouth without cutting his lips.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (8ZskC)

179 176. Buzzion, kids these days don't even know what Nazis were, or anything about WWII. And their parents belligerently defend that ignorance as their right, to erase all that came before they themselves were born or came of age. Chocolates or not, stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: Mrs. Gump at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (gmrH5)

180 Oh and it goes after the JOOOOS. They're always making things up, those damn meddlesome wandering tribes.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (GGCsk)

181

>>>My local PBS station shows "Loose Change" all the time when it's
not showing glowing La Raza documentaries.

Clearly they need moar donations for totebags

Posted by: Bigby's Fisticuffs at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (3ZtZW)

182 My son has been learning about propaganda since 3rd grade. I would be worried, but he so far has gotten teachers who are fairly balanced, as in teaching what it is, why it is used, and ways to spot it. Of course they used made up silly examples in elementary school. So far this year that hasn't been part of their LASS curriculum, but it is focused on ancient civilizations so I wouldn't expect it.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (+0txR)

183 "Since it is a California public school, the other suggested curriculum is probably fisting barnyard animals Posted by: model_1066 at May 06, 2014 01:56 PM"

This would be a lot funnier if a MA school or two didn't have their Fistgate moment a couple of years ago....No. I'm not kidding.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (knoK7)

184 Joe Biden is already practicing holding a dagger in his mouth without cutting his lips. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 06, 2014 02:00 PM (8ZskC) I Lol'd!!

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (v0/PR)

185 Which says nothing about the *methods* used to teach, but neither does your comment. Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 01:47 PM (PYAXX) I'm thinking my comment would have made more sense to you had you seen some of those eight grade tests from around the 1900s. In the articles i've read which highlighted these tests, it was asserted that in general, everyone passed them. The math questions alone would eat most high school grads for breakfast, let alone the history or geography. Here's one. http://davereed.tumblr.com/post/571391973/8th-grade-final-exam-circa-1900 As for the methods? Rote memorization was a lot of it. Repetition and Reiteration was more of it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:00 AM (bb5+k)

186 Fat, drunk and historically ignorant is no way to go through life, son.

Posted by: Dean Wormer at May 06, 2014 10:01 AM (8ZskC)

187 157 @NewsBreaker DETAILS: White House says a US team will head to Nigeria to help in the search for kidnapped schoolgirls Posted by: Tami at May 06, 2014 01:53 PM (v0/PR) Those MFer's have been over here over a year. We too go for them.

Posted by: Boko Haram at May 06, 2014 10:01 AM (0FSuD)

188 "When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. By the by, remember, Chris Wallace had to sharply remind whatshername, the cuntling that was on that panel with Brit Hume the other day, that Benghazi actually happened. It was breathtaking to hear the yes yes okay yes the attack took place. It's all of a piece with what matters is spin, not reality. I swear, the next step in the controversalizing of Benghazi is attempts to act like it never happened at all.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at May 06, 2014 10:01 AM (mf5HN)

189

Assessing bullshit propaganda...isn't this also the story of Barack Obama?

Posted by: MacGruber at May 06, 2014 10:02 AM (xvtYZ)

190 @137 Here is an actual 8th grade exam question for bullit county Kentucky circa 1912 "At $1.62 a cord, what will be the cost of a pile of wood 24ft long, 4ft wide and 6ft 3 in. High?" Here is a modern 8th grade question, "3 of the people in johns family have been to NYC and 4 have been to Houston. 3 people have been to both NYC and Houston. How many people have been to Houston but not NYC? Use a Venn diagram to help with your answer" I'm pretty sure the kids from 1912 would whip the shit out of these modern kids in math and be able to shoe a horse.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 06, 2014 10:02 AM (Gdv4z)

191

@63 If you read George Weigel's biography of Pope John PaulII, you'll note that from his perspective World War II didn't end until those nations absorbed by the Warsaw Pact were freed in the late '80s/early '90s.

---------------------

He had a point. World War 2 started (in Europe, at any rate) when Germany and the USSR invaded Poland (the latter about two weeks after the former, but it was coordinated). Poland was stuck with at least one of them essentially calling the shots for the next five decades.

Posted by: junior at May 06, 2014 10:02 AM (UWFpX)

192 I was a liberal arts major, creative writingand literature, and don't recall ever kissing anyone's ass. One of my creative writing professors was Elizabeth Arthur,whose novels and short story collections have been frequently been covered in the NYT Review of Books. Another former professor of mine, Ann Martin, is a poet whose work has helped put my home state on the literary map. I don't think you can say they write (and think) so beautifully because they're adept at kissing ass, either. They taught tough courses, with rigor and discipline. Ironically for a liberal arts type, I've spent the bulk of my career working in and around the IT, pharmaceutical, and telecommunications industries. Yes, there are extraordinarily capable, technically and mathematically proficient people working in those fields. They are also, by and large, the most uncreative,self-restricting, flat-thinkingbunch of people I've ever encountered. So there's that. --- My thoughts are colored by what I saw at my university, with there being a lot of people who ended up in certain majors because they were seen as easy options rather than due to interest or talent. That's not to say all business students, engineers, and scientists were the brightest and the best as much as the TREMENDOUS amount of grade inflation going on in those other programs. It was insane to see the number of 4.0 GPAs coming out of some of those programs and it wasn't because the sorority girls in question were National Merit Scholars.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:02 AM (zVFRW)

193 129. I might have enough of some 'first nations' in me to get something out of the Canadian government.

Posted by: JEM

***

If that doesn't work, try a faculty slot at Harvard or a senate seat from Massachusetts.

Posted by: Eponymous Rex at May 06, 2014 10:02 AM (Xv7f/)

194 Now your government has broken math and history.
Is there anything they can't screw up?

Posted by: Big Ben at May 06, 2014 10:03 AM (bd3fJ)

195 I'm a college perfessor (like my handle implies). And we see the same crap here (even in Business, but here we see it in Management, not in Finance and Accounting, where there are actually right and wrong answers). they try to teach them "critical thinking" and "higher-order reasoning" rather than drilling them on fundamentals (like "calculate what $200 a month will grow to in 10 years at an 8% annual return"). Doomed to failure. The reason they do this is that making the students do the hard work to actually learn useful sh*t is hard, and the students gripe a lot. Luckily my give a sh*tter is terminally broken.

Posted by: RightWingPRof at May 06, 2014 10:03 AM (RtR5I)

196 White House says a US team will head to Nigeria to help in the search for kidnapped schoolgirls Joe Biden is already practicing holding a dagger in his mouth without cutting his lips. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 06, 2014 02:00 PM ........Many times I am in the can't police the world camp. But in this case I would love to see those pieces of filth shot like stray dogs ion Sochi.

Posted by: Minnfidel at May 06, 2014 10:03 AM (/KiIU)

197 The Clitoris: Threat or Menace? There's no such thing as a clitoris. That's just a conspiracy story started by Bilderberg.

Posted by: Alex Jonesssss at May 06, 2014 10:03 AM (7ObY1)

198 >>Marcus T: Which is why you teach children Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric. <<

I would only add historical facts. You need to have a grasp of established, factual history for context. But I mostly agree.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (GGCsk)

199 196 157 @NewsBreaker DETAILS: White House says a US team will head to Nigeria to help in the search for kidnapped schoolgirls Posted by: Tami at May 06, 2014 01:53 PM (v0/PR) Translation: "We'll twitter some cutesy but stern slogan and call it a day."

Posted by: model_1066 at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (yaeMF)

200 183 164- both, of course. The Mossad is owned by the House of Rothschild, and they bought several key members of the US government decades ago. It is a long term conspiracy. --- The Queen, the Vatican, the Geddes, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits-up! Ach, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and his "Oh, you're gonna buy me chicken!"

Posted by: Stuart McKenzie at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (zVFRW)

201 @ Washington Free Beacon /free bacon/ Parody Obama Movie Posters Arrive in L.A. for PresidentÂ’s Visit, Â‘Saving Barack Obama: A Steven Spielberg PloyÂ’ "the mission is a fraud" -- "by an unknown artist" [for how long, known or alive] posted outside Paramount Pictures. The artwork is part of a larger campaign by an unknown artist to fill cities with political messages opposing the administration. Images with the president golfing and the headline Â“subparÂ” appeared in various cities throughout the PGA tour, including at the Masters Tournament in Augusta, Ga.

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (gmrH5)

202 Summarily, this does not tech kids to "reason". It teaches them to further the propaganda by editorializing without context. Yeah, that. You would also think that a lesson on "analyzing propaganda" would talk about the ideas behind propaganda. Would talk about the techniques, if you will- spin-doctoring, appeals to emotion, and so forth.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (PYAXX)

203

Why don't they use a present day example that is still being debated to learn about propaganda . They could have used the Iraq-WMD debate or Man Made Global Warming.

Either way we come out ahead because the kids will learn facts that they never heard or taught before.

Posted by: polynikes at May 06, 2014 10:04 AM (m2CN7)

204

>>>My son has been learning about propaganda since 3rd grade. I would be worried, but he so far has gotten teachers who are fairly balanced, as in teaching what it is, why it is used, and ways to spot it

I think its an effort to create more savvy practitioners of propaganda for the dot gov

/eh kinda sarc

Posted by: Bigby's Fisticuffs at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (3ZtZW)

205 Actually Teresa I adored history as a kid, read a lot of historical fiction. I ate up the Little House on a Prairie, the American Girls series, etc. But I actively sought that out on my own, and my parents bought me those books knowing I liked them, encouraged my interest. I don't think school today gears itself to teaching kids to love history and connect it to their own lives, which is a shame.

Posted by: LizLem at May 06, 2014 01:48 PM (yRwC

----------------------------------------------

I was the same way. It happened when my parents started letting me watch the "Victory at Sea" series on WWII. I guess I was perhaps 5 or 6 years old then. I've been hooked on history ever since.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (J2R4f)

206 The artwork is part of a larger campaign by an unknown artist to fill cities with political messages opposing the administration. Images with the president golfing and the headline Â“subparÂ” appeared in various cities throughout the PGA tour, including at the Masters Tournament in Augusta, Ga. --- At least these aren't a bunch of self-righteous preeners like "Anonymous".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (zVFRW)

207 Dude, kidnapping little girls is sooo 19th century.

Posted by: Tommy Vietor, Senior Foreign Policy Analyst and Fill-In Bus Driver at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (8ZskC)

208 "At $1.62 a cord, what will be the cost of a pile of wood 24ft long, 4ft wide and 6ft 3 in. High?" - It's a trick question. Nobody would buy a wooden cord because it wouldn't conduct electricity.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (Mogjf)

209 My own theory about the major gaps in education right now goes back to the 70s and teaching Social Studies (rather than History, Geography, Civics) and Language Arts (rather than Reading, Grammar, Rhetoric). The mashup seems to have lost some necessary steps along the way. The "new" Common Core math problems I have seen are right from New Math out of the 60-70s.

Posted by: Mustbequantum at May 06, 2014 10:05 AM (MIKMs)

210 >>"When tragic events occur in history, there is often debate about their actual existence," the assignment read. <<

Sort of like the Democrats and Benghazi.

I think that would have been a better example than the Holocaust. Plus it's current events.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 10:06 AM (GGCsk)

211 The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders. Eighth graders barely even know what The Holocaust is in the first place. Sorry Ace. You are dead wrong about that. Fourth grade is old enough to start thinking critically.

Posted by: Daybrother at May 06, 2014 10:06 AM (6Hpjn)

212 "Posted by: Stuart McKenzie at May 06, 2014 02:04 PM"

What could you possibly have against the Colonel?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 10:06 AM (knoK7)

213 I spent my Lit classes writing things like: Shakespeare and Company: How Shakespeare influenced and was influenced by his literary peers I don't remember kissing any asses while doing so. I'd think I would remember such a thing.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 06, 2014 10:06 AM (7ObY1)

214 we have kids that know practically nothing at all being asked to "analyze" the claims of people who, while ignorant, actually do know more than the kids themselves, and hence seem to be "authorities."

Which is what I suspect to be the aim of the CC designers; to inject ambiguity into every subject in order to heighten the power of the instructor/administrator/bureaucrat. It's designed to kill independent learning and thought.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i][/b] at May 06, 2014 10:06 AM (JmGFJ)

215 I really don't have a problem with examining 'is the Holocaust a hoax' theories. Under scrutiny, it's quite obvious the hoax theory is untrue. It's not addressing things in a forthright and public manner which is the problem. The crazy theories go unanswered except for screaming, "Heretic!", and impressionable youth hear them and think they are being lied to and that debate is being squashed because the 'official story' is a lie.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 06, 2014 10:07 AM (PVNda)

216 217 "At $1.62 a cord, what will be the cost of a pile of wood 24ft long, 4ft wide and 6ft 3 in. High?" My axe says: free.

Posted by: Guy Who Doesn't Give a Shit at May 06, 2014 10:07 AM (7ObY1)

217 Critical thinking comes naturally from having a base of knowledge, then gradually learning that it's flawed. As ace noted about common core reading, the problem is that they're skipping right over the base of knowledge part. What we get is know- nothings who think that their absence of knowledge of any kind illustrates their genius.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:07 AM (j0wOO)

218 But how much wood is in a cord of wood? Or is that something kids back then would automatically know?

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 06, 2014 10:07 AM (+0txR)

219 Something else that would be nice: if they actually taught what actually happened first. Then they could teach about propaganda.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 10:08 AM (0HooB)

220 The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders.

Eighth graders barely even know what The Holocaust is in the first place.

Sorry Ace. You are dead wrong about that. Fourth grade is old enough to start thinking critically.

Posted by: Daybrother at May 06, 2014 02:06 PM (6Hpjn)

pinkbelly, wedgie or indian burn ?

Posted by: The Jackhole at May 06, 2014 10:08 AM (nTgAI)

221 199 Here is an actual 8th grade exam question for bullit county Kentucky circa 1912

"At $1.62 a cord, what will be the cost of a pile of wood 24ft long, 4ft wide and 6ft 3 in. High?"

Given that we have no need to know how many cubic feet are in a cord, you're right. I teach college math, and I wouldn't be able to answer it without looking up that bit of arcane non-mathematical trivia.

If the question were phrased in "cubic feet," I would hope that most modern 8th graders could handle it pretty easily.

And 8th graders in 1900 would have no earthly idea what a Venn Diagram was.

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 10:08 AM (bvlUm)

222 Translation: "We'll twitter some cutesy but stern slogan and call it a day." Posted by: model_1066 at May 06, 2014 02:04 PM (yaeMF) The power of #hashtag compels you! The power of #hashtag compels you!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 06, 2014 10:08 AM (kiyD3)

223

The Clitoris: Threat or Menace?

There's no such thing as a clitoris. That's just a conspiracy story started by Bilderberg.

Posted by: Alex Jonesssss at May 06, 2014 02:03 PM (7ObY1)

Female orgasms: Fact.....or a myth of the ages.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 10:08 AM (J2R4f)

224 I have a friend who's son is a SEAL. His group was sent over there last year and had no success. He came home, I don't know if they left anyone over there or not. Africa is one BIG place. Tracking down these fuckers in the jungle is not going to be an easy task. The logistics are fucking hell.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 06, 2014 10:09 AM (0FSuD)

225 And I read my first book on the Holocaust in 6th grade. It was a picture book. Anybody who saw that book couldn't say it was fake.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 06, 2014 10:09 AM (PVNda)

226 Holy shit, the comments at that CBS LA site are a cesspool.

Posted by: Lea at May 06, 2014 10:09 AM (lIU4e)

227 >>>Sorry Ace. You are dead wrong about that. Fourth grade is old enough to start thinking critically. sure. But I don't think teachers can teach it. Oh, a star teacher could. But most teachers are not stars, and yet this Common Core pedagogy starts with the default assumption that every teacher is a potential Socratic-method master.

Posted by: ace at May 06, 2014 10:10 AM (/FnUH)

228 Gosnell movie is just shy of 200k of reaching it's goal.

Posted by: RWC at May 06, 2014 10:10 AM (fWAjv)

229

I have a lesson plan ready to go. Take a basic list of the most common logical fallacies and a half dozen of Obama's speeches.

Then I have the class go through the speeches and identify the logical fallacies.

A student fails if they cannot ID at least a dozen different fallacies per speech.

Oddly, this does not excite the hiring committee when I interview at public schools.

Posted by: Eponymous Rex at May 06, 2014 10:11 AM (Xv7f/)

230 But I don't think teachers can teach it. Touche.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 06, 2014 10:11 AM (PVNda)

231 I think the most important lesson in critical thinking can be summed up by the phrase "question everything".

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 06, 2014 10:11 AM (+0txR)

232 But how much wood is in a cord of wood? Or is that something kids back then would automatically know?>>

Couldn't they just google that part of the question on their I phone?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (81UWZ)

233 Sorry Ace. You are dead wrong about that. Fourth grade is old enough to start thinking critically. --- Depends on the kid and the mindset. My older daughter is 9 years old and almost in the 4th grade yet I don't really see a lot of critical thinking skills being used there, as I have to lead her along to figuring things out. My younger daughter, who is 4 years old, though? She uses them a lot, as she takes in what is said in conversations or things she sees and come to correct conclusions.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (zVFRW)

234 Those are the best kind of history teachers. I had a prof who was a czech soldier during WW2, briefly. He told us about being almost lynched by Hungarians for messing with a girl, getting bombed by Russians, Germans and Americans, his capture and liberation, joining up with the Allies, etc. Posted by: Bigby's Fisticuffs at May 06, 2014 01:56 PM (3ZtZW) In high school I had a teacher who was on one of the Allied bombers flying on a mission over Germany when they first encountered ME 262s. He was a belly gunner or tail gunner, and he said all of a sudden here comes these flashes of light so fast that they didn't have a clue what they were. Someone said "Those were airplanes!" A few minutes later they saw it again, going the opposite direction. He said they just about shit a brick. He said they were moving so fast there was no way they could hit them. In their big ponderous bomber they were sitting ducks. He said he found out after the war that those two ME 262s they encountered had already expended their ammunition on another mission, and were merely flying by in an attempt to scare off the allied bombers.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (bb5+k)

235 You can learn quite a bit about propaganda by watching Mad Men. Bonus: Christina Hendricks for those with short attention spans.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (j0wOO)

236 I like to remind liberals that relying on conspiracy theories to paper over the inconsistencies and contradictions of their belief system makes them seem mentally unstable at best.

Posted by: model_1066 at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (yaeMF)

237 >>Oh, a star teacher could. But most teachers are not stars, and yet this Common Core pedagogy starts with the default assumption that every teacher is a potential Socratic-method master. <<

Teachers today would give a peripatetic thinker like Sophocles, Ritalin.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 10:12 AM (GGCsk)

238 233. Female orgasms: Fact.....or a myth of the ages.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014

***

Myth. Definitely.

Posted by: Hillary Rodham Clinton at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (Xv7f/)

239 Having the nation's future taught by the lowest average SAT students that manage to graduate from college is a problem that must be dealt with.

Posted by: toby928© at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (QupBk)

240 I think that would have been a better example than the Holocaust. Plus it's current events.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 06, 2014 02:06 PM (GGCsk)

--------------------------------------------

I disagree. The world is very close to repeating this event. Very very close.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (J2R4f)

241 221 "Posted by: Stuart McKenzie at May 06, 2014 02:04 PM" What could you possibly have against the Colonel? --- He puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smartass!

Posted by: Stuart McKenzie at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (zVFRW)

242 When I was in jr. high, there was a holocaust miniseries. Our history teacher made it required viewing and we spent class that week learning about how horrific the holocaust was. He also made note of facts vs. reality in the show. He even showed footage of the mass graves, the camps etc. As an 8th or 9th grader, it made a huge impact on what evil truly is.

Posted by: Beer Ninja at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (GhDQ1)

243 Makes you wonder how much crap flies under the radar and is taught to children.

Posted by: RWC at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (fWAjv)

244 240 I have a lesson plan ready to go. Take a basic list of the most common logical fallacies and a half dozen of Obama's speeches. Then I have the class go through the speeches and identifythe logical fallacies.Astudent fails if they cannot ID at least a dozen different fallacies per speech. Oddly, this does not excite the hiring committee when I interview at public schools. Posted by: Eponymous Rex at May 06, 2014 02:11 PM (Xv7f/) When I rule the world, you will be in charge of education.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:13 AM (j0wOO)

245 Think about thinking. From the US News and World Report, for my fellow NC morons. Brannon, a strict constitutional conservative, carries baggage that establishment Republicans worry would overwhelm him in a general election against Sen. Kay Hagan, D-N.C. A jury found he misled investors in a failed start-up venture. HeÂ’s been late to pay property taxes. And heÂ’s often used colorful rhetoric that would certainly be placed in fall attack ads against him, like comparing food stamps to slavery. This guy is nut.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 06, 2014 10:14 AM (0FSuD)

246 Some people claim: The Holocaust never happened. The World Trade Center collapsed due to controlled demolitions. The United States invaded Iraq due to Halliburton. They know the future temperature of the globe withina tenth of a degree fifty years from now. We, however, are the backward charlatans.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 06, 2014 10:14 AM (659DL)

247 233. Female orgasms: Fact.....or a myth of the ages. Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 Who cares? *ducks and runs for cover*

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:15 AM (j0wOO)

248 And just as in Ace's example, one's sympathy naturally tends to lie with the "outsider" or the "underdog," so I unwittingly favored the "challenger" in the dispute, even though the rival side insisted with rising fury that the challenger was a buffoon and a maniac. Posted by: zombie at May 06, 2014 01:59 PM (mizYg) Now you have me curious. Which one turned out to be correct? The one you sided with, or the one you didn't?

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:15 AM (bb5+k)

249 Bah Mad Men. I predict the series will end with Don and Roger's hoo haws being literally and figuratively cut off. And Peggy and Joan wearing them like trophies around their neck as they fire all the men and non-minorities. The last scene before it fades to black will be the two of them in a naked lesbian love scene.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 06, 2014 10:15 AM (+0txR)

250 Africa is one BIG place. Tracking down these fuckers in the jungle is not going to be an easy task. The logistics are fucking hell. --- As Charlie used to his advantage in Vietnam, hence Agent Orange to cut their cover. You have to spot the fuckers to start with, then be able to find either an LZ or a drop site for the choppers to send in your supplies.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:16 AM (zVFRW)

251 Those "Saving Barack Obama" posters are funny, but they don't seem obvious enough - they'll blend in with all of the other movie posters/billboards around Burbank/Hollywood. The SubPar ones are much better - and much closer to the pro-Obama propaganda stuff by Shepard Fairey, which is a bonus.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 06, 2014 10:16 AM (8zTpe)

252 251
Tell me about it. My worst students are the elementary education majors. When I get an "undeclared" student who has a normal personality and is pretty good at math - maybe not engineering-good, but fairly good, I try to steer them into elementary or secondary math education. I tell them the pay's not too shabby, the benefits are fantastic, job security is assured and you get a lot of time off.

Their response: Almost inevitably an eye-roll, followed by, "but then I would have to take EDUCATION classes."

I can't argue with that....

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 10:17 AM (bvlUm)

253 @231 First of all Venn diagrams were first utilized in the late 1800s so these kids could have utilized them as part of the teaching of sets Second the question from 1912 is a useful question whereas the modern one is not.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 06, 2014 10:17 AM (JqpsY)

254 218 My own theory about the major gaps in education right now goes back to the 70s and teaching Social Studies (rather than History, Geography, Civics) and Language Arts (rather than Reading, Grammar, Rhetoric). The mashup seems to have lost some necessary steps along the way. The "new" Common Core math problems I have seen are right from New Math out of the 60-70s.
***

Want to have some fun? Hand a random male Gen Xer a 12 inch ruler and ask them find 4 and 5/16s on it and then 6 and 7/8ths and then add them to give you the total.

Say what you will about rote memorization but the generations who did that built this country into what it is, created the technology to win two Word Wars, built the SR71 Blackbird using a slide rule, and built shit that has left the frigging solar system.

Posted by: B at May 06, 2014 10:17 AM (Pson9)

255 The last scene before it fades to black will be the two of them in a naked lesbian love scene. Posted by: ParanoidGirlinSeattle at May 06, 2014 02:15 PM (+0txR) You say this as if it were a problem.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 06, 2014 10:17 AM (DrWcr)

256 Or is that something kids back then would automatically know? They would know. It's similar to a question like (in modern times) given a box 2.7dm x 1.7dm x 4cm, how many liters of water could it hold? And, to that, I bet many 8th graders could do it. Which was my point. Given that I know the conversions, I can do (and I'd bet most 8th graders could do) most of those arithmetic questions from the early 20th c. That said, most of those things are the kinds of things we have computers for. I don't need to "know" much 6,750 lbs of coal would cost at $50.00/ton. Should I at least know how to figure it out? Probably. But I can look up the conversion from ton to pounds and then divide properly to get the $/lb, then multiply by 6750. But just because most people don't know the conversion from cubic feet to bushels anymore doesn't actually mean that people in 1912 were better at math than we are. That's a tired old canard that gets pulled out all the time. Contrariwise, ask someone from 1912 to find for E given a mass of 200g. They'd look at you like you'd grown 2 heads. Modern 8th graders (even if they couldn't do it by rote) would at least know what the F you were talking about. As human knowledge advances, we compress what we teach because we have to. That compression says nothing about the methods by which people are taught. Certainly rote memorization and drills work. But some things work better (in the right circumstances). Other things work worse.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at May 06, 2014 10:18 AM (PYAXX)

257 I'm pretty sure the kids from 1912 would whip the shit out of these modern kids in math and be able to shoe a horse. Posted by: Kreplach at May 06, 2014 02:02 PM (Gdv4z) Exactly. 1912 kids were functional, today's kids appear to be quite a lot of dysfunctional.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:18 AM (bb5+k)

258 Their response: Almost inevitably an eye-roll, followed by, "but then I would have to take EDUCATION classes." I can't argue with that.... --- Could be worse... they could be taking political science courses from militant lesbian vegans who automatically deduct a letter grade from all males in her classroom. Yes, there was one of these at my college and, no, I didn't take her. One of the campus cops I was friends with took her because the job offered him free grad school courses as a fringe benefit.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:18 AM (zVFRW)

259 220. I disagree In 4th grade the only thought nck should have had was if I do this will mom and dad kick my ass

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 06, 2014 10:19 AM (R6s86)

260

246. Nothing like learning history from those who have first hand knowledge of it.

I had a flight instructor who came to the U.S. from Russia. He had been an engineer in Russia but hated it.

His dream was to fly. So he came here. Got a janitorial job. Saved his money. Took flying lessons. Saved more money. Now he has three planes and a flight school.

"I love go back to Russia one day" he told me once "At controls of B-52".

He despises Obama with a white hot passion.

As patriotic an American as I know.

Posted by: Randy at May 06, 2014 10:19 AM (Xv7f/)

261 He despises Obama with a white hot passion. As patriotic an American as I know. Posted by: Randy at May 06, 2014 02:19 PM (Xv7f/) Those who have fled despotism usually do/are.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 06, 2014 10:20 AM (DrWcr)

262 267 Damiano: If you instituted such a program, a half generation later you would be told to resign by the now educated public, or stand in front of this firing squad ... your choice. --- I have to report this to the boss. *places pistol on table* Perhaps you would prefer to avoid the red tape.

Posted by: Nikita Kruschev at May 06, 2014 10:20 AM (zVFRW)

263 The reason they do this is that making the students do the hard work to actually learn useful sh*t is hard, and the students gripe a lot. Luckily my give a sh*tter is terminally broken.

My theory as to why all these wacky educational theories and curricula are springing up like toadstools is that the teachers are tired of and bored with teaching all the "rote" stuff like times tables, fractions, and geography and want to do something more exciting.

Posted by: OregonMuse at May 06, 2014 10:21 AM (I8YZX)

264 The artwork is part of a larger campaign by an unknown artist to fill cities with political messages opposing the administration. Images with the president golfing and the headline Â“subparÂ” appeared in various cities throughout the PGA tour, including at the Masters Tournament in Augusta, Ga. Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 02:04 PM (gmrH5) This guy is doing it right. Mockery is the best way to attack this silly bugger.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:21 AM (bb5+k)

265 And in case anyone is wondering what the dispute was I was called upon to resolve: In an academic setting, an upstart young math genius claimed to have disproven the Reimann Hypothesis, and the consequence of this disproof is that there is some predictability in the frequency of prime numbers; using his equations, you could in theory state that any given number, no matter how large, was indeed or was not indeed likely a prime number, without even having to calculate its primacy. Other, more established, math academics, not only found what they claimed were flaws in his equations, but also disputed the significance of their results. Now, both (on one side) the establishment mathematicians and (on the other) the upstart young math genius were infinitely more knowledgable about higher mathematics than I was. But for reasons I can't delve into, I was put in the position of determining whether of not he was a new Einstein, or just an incredibly sophisticated hoaxster, or perhaps merely a sincere lunatic with delusions of grandeur. It was I, not the math guys, who had the power to make decisions about this youngster's career. I tried in vain to actually dissect the specifics of his breakthrough, and also to dissect his opponent's supposed rebuttals, but frankly I was in over my head. I eventually had to take a "30,000 feet" approach to determine if his paper "felt right" in the sense of not being an intentional hoax or deception. I eventually came to the conclusions that, even if he was in error in his equations, he was quite sincere, and had a quite original way of looking at things, and "might be on to something" basing my conclusions partly on the inability of his detractors to agree unanimously just exactly what was wrong with his breakthrough. And that even if wrong on this one point he had a mind worth encouraging. I thought it just might be possible that they were resisting him due to professional entrenchment and jealousy and the fact that they had spend decades trying to prove the theory with no success. So when I finally give the upstart a (let's just call it) recommendation, albeit a guarded one, the response was ballistic. And then his supporters came out of the woodwork to blast the detractors. Anyway, sheesh, I'm glad that's over. I have purposely refrained from ever re-opening the case and finding out whatever became of him and his claims. I put it behind me and tried to forget.

Posted by: zombie at May 06, 2014 10:22 AM (mizYg)

266 This guy is doing it right. Mockery is the best way to attack this silly bugger. --- One doesn't have to do much to make a mockery out of Obama. I'm not sure we'll ever see such a sycophantic press corps again.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 10:22 AM (zVFRW)

267 >>>... And heÂ’s often used colorful rhetoric that would certainly be placed in fall attack ads against him, like comparing food stamps to slavery. ... I see the point about the other stuff, but 'food stamps: slavery' is a reasonable argument in my book. Far more reasonable that Biden shouting that Republicans, "want to put ya'll back in chains!" Better argument: current tax system: slavery

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:23 AM (j0wOO)

268 Often "history" is a collection of the winner's propaganda. You need to have good mental tools already in place to sort out the bullshit. - History nerd comment. They say that the winners write the history but that is not true of one of the greatest history books of all time, Thucydides' The Peloponnesian War.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 06, 2014 10:23 AM (Mogjf)

269 Go 'way, 'batin.

Posted by: 52% of American voters, public school graduates at May 06, 2014 10:23 AM (5ikDv)

270 Note page 6, which begins "Even the diary of Anne Frank is a hoax."

I'm curious why pages 2-5 are blacked out in that .pdf. I have no way of knowing, but the introductory text to the piece being quoted may have been mitigating.

I think that the skills being developed - taking a critical look at various, contradictory sources, analyzing the quality of the conclusions they each come to, and then writing a paper taking a position on the issue - these are all valuable skills, and ones that I would think an 8th grader should be prepared to start learning.

But, whoever thought that the Holocaust would be a good subject for the exercise is too stupid to be teaching adolescents. Perhaps 1st graders would be more their speed.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at May 06, 2014 10:24 AM (IN7k+)

271 Posted by: Stuart McKenzie at May 06, 2014 02:13 PM

Aaaand you don't disappoint!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 06, 2014 10:24 AM (knoK7)

272 Exactly. 1912 kids were functional, today's kids appear to be quite a lot of dysfunctional. But put a video game controller in their hands and Greatness Awaits (that's the Official PS4 Advertising slogan). *eye roll*

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 10:25 AM (0HooB)

273 95 Dude we technically entered the war the day after Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: Jay at May 06, 2014 01:39 PM (tMH+M)

*****************************

You could make a reasonable argument that we were in it starting in about 1940. Lend-lease, the destroyer deal, convoy escorts vs. U-boats, oil embargo on Japan, Flying Tigers, American volunteer pilots to RCAF and RAF, peacetime draft and mobilization, National Guard to the Philippines, Hawaii, and other Pacific islands, etc.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at May 06, 2014 10:25 AM (HubSo)

274 Compare the letters written by the average farm boy of the civil war, educated either at home or in a one room school house, to the tweet, email, or simple speech of the average 17 year old today, many of whom have received public education costing $25-35,000 a year. http://spec.lib.vt.edu/cwlove/jcmorris.html

Posted by: Jen at May 06, 2014 10:26 AM (qcDPE)

275 265

They weren't taught about Venn Diagrams in 8th grade - they weren't even taught that in High School. I collect and read old math books as a hobby - I'm very familiar with the curriculum from the 1820s - present.

It has changed drastically - some ways for the good, some ways for the worse; but in terms of difficulty, or usefulness, it remains pretty consistent, with the occasional really stupid forays into things like "new math" and now "common core."

One huge difference is that 100 years ago, algorithmic memorization (not rote memorization - like times tables) was the standard - with no attempt to discuss anything about "why" this long, complicated process would produce a cube root, for example. By the 1930s, this was mostly replaced by a more symbol-intensive method (the one most of us think of as old-fashioned algebra - and mistakenly believe was used by Isaac Newton or whoever), which also discussed things like the "distributive property." Probably the high-water mark for math education in the elementary and secondary schools was the 1940s and 1950s, so I guess it's no accident that we were actually able to put men on the moon by 1970.

Posted by: notropis at May 06, 2014 10:26 AM (bvlUm)

276 Now you have me curious. Which one turned out to be correct? The one you sided with, or the one you didn't? Posted by: D-Lamp See comment #278

Posted by: zombie at May 06, 2014 10:26 AM (mizYg)

277 Often "history" is a collection of the winner's propaganda. Unless there are piles of film that show, and thousands of people with numbers on their arms who say, the same thing.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 06, 2014 10:26 AM (659DL)

278 A lot of plane crashes this week.

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 10:26 AM (J2R4f)

279 Oh, and the letters were written in beautiful cursive, sir, which they could both read and write. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4146201

Posted by: Jen at May 06, 2014 10:28 AM (qcDPE)

280
"Anybody who doesn't know what's wrong with America's schools never screwed an el-ed major. -- P.J. O'Rourke

Posted by: Torg at May 06, 2014 10:28 AM (Xv7f/)

281 Here is a quote:

"Their words are that we Â‘appear to be saying something very importantÂ’ when in reality we are Â‘only saying something about our own feelingsÂ’.
No schoolboy will be able to resist the suggestion brought to bear upon him by that word only. I do not mean, of course, that he will make any conscious inference
from what he reads to a general philosophical theory that all values are subjective and trivial. The very power of ***** and ***** depends on the fact that they are dealing
with a boy: a boy who thinks he is Â‘doingÂ’ his Â‘English prepÂ’ and has no notion that ethics, theology, and politics are all at stake. It is not a theory they put into his mind,
but an assumption, which ten years hence, its origin forgotten and its presence unconscious, will condition him to take one side in a controversy which he has never
recognized as a controversy at all. The authors themselves, I suspect, hardly know what they are doing to the boy, and he cannot know what is being done to him."

from "The Abolition of Man" by C.S. Lewis.

Posted by: AC at May 06, 2014 10:28 AM (Lqx/F)

282 Have you seen those eight grade tests from around 1900? Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 01:42 PM I find it amazing the accomplishments that were made by people that were taught old school. Why did we need to change the basics?

Posted by: Cicero Skip at May 06, 2014 10:29 AM (3m9Uc)

283 Anyway, sheesh, I'm glad that's over. I have purposely refrained from ever re-opening the case and finding out whatever became of him and his claims. I put it behind me and tried to forget. That's quite interesting, zombie. I wonder if I could make an informed decision in that situation.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at May 06, 2014 10:29 AM (0HooB)

284 So who would have seen this coming from a school district with an interim director named Mohammed Z. Islam?

Posted by: sans_sheriff at May 06, 2014 10:29 AM (D8m/s)

285 If you instituted such a program, a half generation later you would be told to resign by the now educated public, or stand in front of this firing squad ... your choice. Posted by: Kristophr at May 06, 2014 02:17 PM (0zVEV) I'd gladly resign, no threats needed. Kidding aside, I strongly feel that 90% of the problems we have can be traced to career politicians and abandoning the old days where Congress was a part time job for citizen legislators. Washington viewed the Presidency fully in terms of being drafted into service. Here's my most basic criteria for evaluating any candidate for public office: if they weren't running for office, would they otherwise be on the public dole anyhow? The answer for everyone currently in office that I am aware of is "Yes".

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:31 AM (j0wOO)

286 I'm not sure we'll ever see such a sycophantic press corps again.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 02:22 PM (zVFRW)

----------------------------------------------------

Unless I win. I'll have those fuckers standing at attention when they address me. And they'll ask exactly what I want them to ask.

Posted by: Hildebeast at May 06, 2014 10:32 AM (J2R4f)

287 My theory as to why all these wacky educational theories and curricula are springing up like toadstools is that the teachers are tired of and bored with teaching all the "rote" stuff like times tables, fractions, and geography and want to do something more exciting. Posted by: OregonMuse at May 06, 2014 02:21 PM (I8YZX) And this theory does a better job of explaining what we see around us than does the theory that they are "Improving" education. They are not improving it. They aren't even reaching the quality of what was achieved in the past.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:32 AM (bb5+k)

288 Want to have some fun? Hand a random male Gen Xer a 12 inch ruler and ask them find 4 and 5/16s on it and then 6 and 7/8ths and then add them to give you the total. My son (21 yo) is a carpenter and is considered something of a genius by the building tradesmen -- and is sent to the architectural and engineering meetings because he is the only one who can understand them.

Posted by: Mustbequantum at May 06, 2014 10:33 AM (MIKMs)

289 I find it amazing the accomplishments that were made by people that were taught old school. Why did we need to change the basics? Posted by: Cicero Skip at May 06, 2014 02:29 PM (3m9Uc) 1. To keep the proles in their place. 2. So not-too-bright people can have jobs in education.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 06, 2014 10:34 AM (DrWcr)

290 215. At least these aren't a bunch of self-righteous preeners like "Anonymous". Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 02:05 PM (zVFRW) "At least"? pfft Whoever's behind these CLEVER posters gets my applause. Advertising (propaganda falling under BUSINESS and PSYCHOLOGY "disciplines") sucks so thoroughly these days. I can't stand any commercials or the super majority of television or radio programs the past many years since 9/11/01. It's as if logic went down with the Towers. Alinsky disciples have "outmoded" a healthy sense of humor, now deemed a public danger, typecast as terrorist, or some such crazy malarchy. As far as I've experienced, there's plenty of stupid dogma in every field preening about like The Highlander as if the "only" legitimate discipline. Don't you agree? Typecasting one's opponent as an idiot simply because of a different though legitimate perspective is as dumb as dumb gets. Besides, it's a rare bird with a marvelous imagination whose profession is bean counting but whose contributions are in other professional disciplines. Sure, there's the juxtaposing Charles Ives modernist musical composer earning his financial success in insurance. But then, for all the great imagination and powers of analysis that Einstein utilized in life, the genius did get things wrong. Relativity, speed of light ... even the US Military knows better now than to FUNCTION according to erroneous "established science" when surgical precision is required to take down a target. Give Dr. Paul LaViolette a good thorough read or listen. http://etheric.com/paul-laviolette-bio/

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 10:34 AM (gmrH5)

291 I find it amazing the accomplishments that were made by people that were taught old school. Why did we need to change the basics?

Posted by: Cicero Skip at May 06, 2014 02:29 PM (3m9Uc)

Well.......

Posted by: Karl Marx at May 06, 2014 10:35 AM (J2R4f)

292 Anyway, sheesh, I'm glad that's over. I have purposely refrained from ever re-opening the case and finding out whatever became of him and his claims. I put it behind me and tried to forget. Posted by: zombie at May 06, 2014 02:22 PM (mizYg) Science advances one funeral at a time." -Max Planck-

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:36 AM (bb5+k)

293 All this educational confusion could be eliminated if my vouchers for Detroit were put in place. Educates kids, saves money and repopulates a city.

Posted by: jwest at May 06, 2014 10:37 AM (u2a4R)

294 I'm not sure we'll ever see such a sycophantic press corps again. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at May 06, 2014 02:22 PM (zVFRW) I'm hoping we will eventually be able to tie them all up in a bag and toss them into the river.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:37 AM (bb5+k)

295 Who cares? Fisting kits for everyone!

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at May 06, 2014 10:37 AM (DrWcr)

296 >>>I think that the skills being developed - taking a critical look at various, contradictory sources, analyzing the quality of the conclusions they each come to, and then writing a paper taking a position on the issue - these are all valuable skills, and ones that I would think an 8th grader should be prepared to start learning. But, whoever thought that the Holocaust would be a good subject for the exercise is too stupid to be teaching adolescents. Perhaps 1st graders would be more their speed. ... Beyond issues such as giving legitimacy to Holocaust deniers, it's simply not a good idea to apply critical reasoning to an argument in which one side is clearly, plainly wrong and the other clearly, plainly right. The problem is that you don't want to make the bare fact of "knowing the right answer" so important. Critical reasoning isn't about knowing the right answer, mostly, but about how you get there. Ergo, there will probably be some kids who actually show some decent chops at critical thinking who nevertheless come down on the "I believe the Holocaust was a fraud" side. What do you do with them? Do you tell them they're wrong? You must, because they are wrong; but then that undermines the entire lesson, about critical reasoning being a process. And then of course there is the whole problem that a non-inconsiderable number of people really do think the Holocaust was a fraud, and this lesson gives credence to them, by suggesting it's open to debate. It's not, of course, and not just because of the Opinion of Authorities. There are literally tons of proof of the Holocaust which could never, ever be read by any single person (nevermind an eighth grader). But this lesson says: Look at three different sources (each, I'm guessing, about 2000 words or less) and make up your own mind. Make up your own mind?! Based on three different sources? How about the f***ing films American troops made as they liberated the concentration camps -- much of that footage still censored to this day. (It's bizarre, but apparently the US government won't let people see the whole footage. A historian has to apply to the government to view it, and convince the government he has a good need to view it.)

Posted by: ace at May 06, 2014 10:38 AM (/FnUH)

297 287 Compare the letters written by the average farm boy of the civil war, educated either at home or in a one room school house, to the tweet, email, or simple speech of the average 17 year old today, many of whom have received public education costing $25-35,000 a year. http://spec.lib.vt.edu/cwlove/jcmorris.html Posted by: Jen at May 06, 2014 02:26 PM (qcDPE) As someone who constantly reads long ago written documents, I can attest that the writing ability of yesteryear (even that of farm girls and boys) exceeds by far anything which passes as written communication nowadays. I marvel at the sheer poetry of how people used to be able to write.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:40 AM (bb5+k)

298 >>> I find it amazing the accomplishments that were made by people that were taught old school. Why did we need to change the basics? One reason that we will never have the education system we once did is the emancipation of women. When women were still forbidden to enter certain professions, they were always allowed teaching. And there were a great many competent -- even genius -- women who could not enter a profession except for teaching. So what did you get? You got an education system in which an artificially high number of teachers were actually extremely competent or even geniuses. In a system in which women are not forced into the "caring professions," these women instead become neurologists and etc. So in one important way, we'll never be able to recapture the high level of quality of teachers from a century ago.

Posted by: ace at May 06, 2014 10:41 AM (/FnUH)

299

I think that the skills being developed - taking a critical look at various, contradictory sources, analyzing the quality of the conclusions they each come to, and then writing a paper taking a position on the issue - these are all valuable skills, and ones that I would think an 8th grader should be prepared to start learning.

----------------------------------------------

C'mon. That's pie-in-the-sky thinking. I'd be tickled shitless if, nowdays, an 8th grader could actually read at an 8th grade level.

Posted by: Karl Marx at May 06, 2014 10:43 AM (J2R4f)

300 That's quite interesting, zombie. I wonder if I could make an informed decision in that situation. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at May 06, 2014 02:29 PM (0HooB) I think her methodology of noting that other "Experts" couldn't agree as to what was wrong, is a pretty good methodology. I routinely apply this same methodology to any pronouncements from the court systems. If the law is so obvious, why do we have 5/4 decisions so often?

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:44 AM (bb5+k)

301 When I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut. The problem is that I had asthma, I'm nearsighted, and I grew to be 6'4". So, I moved on to other things. If I were in school now, my idiot teachers would tell me not to give up on my dreams; citing how they dreamed of being teachers and couldn't even read or add all the way through college, but thanks to the government, they are now a teacher. Inspired by their story, I would be suing the government for failing to built spacecraft to accommodate people over 5' 9" and petitioning for extra oxygen supplies and lowering vision standards for pilots.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:44 AM (j0wOO)

302 Geez. Sock off!

Posted by: Soona at May 06, 2014 10:44 AM (J2R4f)

303 Later peeps.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 10:46 AM (bb5+k)

304 We had courses on propaganda and rhetoric and how to recognize it in 7th grade. They somehow avoided this level of stupidity however. They tended to show us selections of political advertising and regular commercials to show how propaganda/marketing/rhetorical arguments were being used on us. The selections were pretty non-partisan as I recall. There is a way to teach this to kids that age, and I still think of it as one of the most useful things I ever learned. This assignment clearly is not that way however.

Posted by: Brian at May 06, 2014 10:50 AM (WbLYr)

305 Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 02:40 PM (bb5+k) One of my favorite examples of your point: Frederick Douglass. The man was born a slave, taught himself in a slave shack, had no formal education, and could write, speak, and debate better than anyone today; including noted "genius" politicians and those with graduate level educations and beyond. A teleprompter wasn't even something anyone would have conceived of in Douglass' day.

Posted by: Damiano at May 06, 2014 10:51 AM (j0wOO)

306 No one sees the connection between the Holocaust and the plight of the Palestinian people?

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 06, 2014 10:51 AM (IHK0Z)

307 You didn't think we merely were coincidental, did you?

Posted by: Colossal Unemployment and Underemployment Rates, ages 18-30 at May 06, 2014 10:55 AM (pmsMR)

308 302 My theory as to why all these wacky educational theories and curricula are springing up like toadstools is that the teachers are tired of and bored with teaching all the "rote" stuff like times tables, fractions, and geography and want to do something more exciting. Posted by: OregonMuse at May 06, 2014 02:21 PM (I8YZX) And this theory does a better job of explaining what we see around us than does the theory that they are "Improving" education. They are not improving it. They aren't even reaching the quality of what was achieved in the past. Posted by: D-Lamp at May 06, 2014 02:32 PM (bb5+k) -- "What we have here is failure to communicate." Oregon, I wouldn't doubt that many of the teachers are themselves subpar in literacy. For instance, a theater arts teacher who doesn't read literature, let alone teach the great dramatic narratives for kids to play act. Or the English teachers who themselves use bad grammar. Or the music teacher who doesn't teach singing, or musical literacy, but just babysits. And the math teachers and science teachers who managed to pass their own testing, but couldn't for the life of them TEACH the lessons beyond assigning pages from the text for the kids to go figure. Given Dr. Spock's social influence, "teaching" became all about comforting the babies so that everyone feels secure whether they know anything, whether they learn any skills, or not. And that inane cultural dogma has ruined whatever still existed of the creative American imagination and of the exercise of healthy competition as well. Top inanity with the prescription drugs that teachers demanded be fed to make school truly uneventful, and here we are in the USA. Below average. No kidding, D-Lamp. Over the past century, since government began involving itself with curriculum, we're crossed over into "comprehensive reform packaging" not simply of education, but of everything. Revisionism: from life itself, to every word, altering "intention". A crude example: "Natural" produce is genetically altered to the point that it kills the life forms required to produce the GMO. (Bees and beneficial insects are becoming endangered species, and up the food chain the deadly cycle continues.) And the masses of human consumers continue to repeat propaganda mantras on cue. There's nothing wrong with misapplications of science when such creates disproportional powers to abuse life at such obscene profits to boot. So we're reminded that profits are good, and that corporations are people, too. Whether neoconservative, neoliberal, or neoclassical, each without the "neo" is pointing the blame finger at the other. Never "moi?" unless playing the opposite game like Hillary and Obama lying, "I take full responsibility." Accountability. You can't full all the people all of the time.

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 11:03 AM (gmrH5)

309 "Fool" full of it

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 11:05 AM (gmrH5)

310 Inspired by their story, I would be suing the government /the tax payers ...

Posted by: panzernashorn at May 06, 2014 11:07 AM (gmrH5)

311 >>>The basic idea of "analyzing propaganda" isn't a bad one... for much older, more sophisticated kids. The kids to whom this assignment given were eighth graders. In 8th grade English class we had a segment where we studied advertising techniques (bandwagon, testimonial, etc.) so I can see the use of studying both English and media with a critical eye. (I was so fascinated with it that I went on to study it in college btw)

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 06, 2014 11:15 AM (V4CBV)

312 FIRED. That's what would happen in any other job. Not "sensitivity training."

Posted by: talldave2 at May 06, 2014 11:55 AM (/s1LA)

313 did you see the comments at the cbs site - oh my

Posted by: zvi at May 06, 2014 01:05 PM (GefuU)

314 Some things are simply not up for "debate"; the Holocaust is one of them.

And ESPECIALLY not for a class of 8th-graders.

Common Core. Brought to you by Jebbie Bush.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at May 06, 2014 01:33 PM (KL49F)

315 For parents or teachers who want to teach their children about propaganda, might I suggest a more appropriate bit of curriculum? I think Bernie Goldberg's book "Bias" is an excellent place to start...

Posted by: Book at May 06, 2014 01:58 PM (ujDl9)

316 And may I say with all sincerity that the only way to resolve the mohammad problem which as we all know is world wide is to wipe them off of planet earth. Presto, peace in our time.....finally.

Posted by: cuchieddie at May 06, 2014 02:37 PM (BYOka)

317 "251 Having the nation's future taught by the lowest average SAT students that manage to graduate from college is a problem that must be dealt with."

Yup.

251 Having the nation's future LED by the lowest average SAT students that manage to graduate from college is a problem that must be dealt with.

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at May 07, 2014 05:27 AM (wT9UL)

318 "99 AllenG: If they made a serious effort to teach the Roman Triumver to kids ( Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric ), the kids would ride these libtard instructors out of their own schools on a rail."

hence the lib-tard effort to NOT teach kids properly.
Ignorance is leftwing bliss.

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at May 07, 2014 05:42 AM (wT9UL)

319 81 ... "Worse, these pupils are led to believe that having opinions is more important than knowing what you are talking about."
- Thomas Sowell, intellectual giant among pygmies

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at May 07, 2014 05:46 AM (wT9UL)

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