March 22, 2014

#WarOnWomen Strikes Again! - [Niedermeyer's Dead Horse]
— Open Blogger

The Wall Street Journal tweeted the following this morning:


Since I am presently seeking employment, I thought the article might be helpful. Alas, it was not. Well, perhaps, but only in the sense that it was instructive as to how quick some are to jump to the conclusion that, since the subject is a woman, obviously sexism must be at play.

The academic, who was referred to as “W” in the original post on the blog Philosophy Smoker, asked in a brief email for five sweeteners, including a salary bump to $65,000 (it’s not clear what the original offer was), a pre-tenure sabbatical, and a semester of maternity leave.

Her would-be employer, Nazareth College in Rochester, NY, responded by withdrawing its offer, noting that her requests indicated the philosopher would be happier at a larger and less “student centered” university.

What went wrong?

Many observers suggest that, even in the age of Lean In, sexism was at play, especially given the request for maternity leave. Indeed, if W were a man and had asked for all the same sweeteners, minus the maternity leave, would he have been so handily dismissed? WeÂ’ll never know in this specific case, though plenty of research suggests that women negotiate less, and are viewed as too aggressive when they do play the game.

You see... I look at her demands, listed more specifically at The Philosophy Smoker blog, and I see a potential candidate more interested in negotiating the time spent NOT doing her job: A sabbatical prior to tenure, a full semester of maternity leave, and a start date in 2015.

These requests of her employer lead me to believe that this woman is so far removed from the condition of the jobs market that she thinks she, alone, might fill their vacancy. It leads me to believe that she believes that she possesses some magically glowing aura that makes her simply irresistible to employers. Or... perhaps. in the world of academia, these types of requests are considered par for the course, in which case.... Are you kidding me?!

Let's assume a man had asked for the same concessions that this female candidate had requested. After all, men are entitled to FMLA leave as well. Do you suppose the results would have been different? I do not. And, I find it incredible that anyone would.

You know those houses you see which are perpetually for sale, year after year? The ones which, every few months or so, have a sign for a different realtor in the front yard?

That's what happens when someone (I'm looking at you, my next-door neighbor) has determined herself/himself to be the one magical unicorn that will sell her/his house for top dollar at a time when the market has tanked by 50%.

Nied's Simple Tip For Assessing Your Market Value: Is the unemployment rate above 6%? Can anyone else perform the job you are applying for?

If the answer to these two questions is "Yes", then you are not a special snowflake.

I am a pretty good negotiator but I can tell you this, in this market, I am likely to accept any offer that isn't an outright insult with an enthusiastic "Thank you!" and be happy to put dinner on the table at night. Once I prove my value to the employer, then I might have a leg to stand on in negotiating a perk or two and, if not, I can continue to look for work elsewhere from the comfort of a paying job.

In summary, I am left to believe that despite her academic achievements, this particular candidate is lacking, at the very least, perspective. Worse, she seems to be lacking in common sense.

This is just my take, and I'm sure my opinion varies from some of yours.

What's your take? How far is too far in negotiating in the current job market?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:20 AM | Comments (397)
Post contains 682 words, total size 4 kb.

1 First!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 22, 2014 09:24 AM (o3MSL)

2 Nazareth college... going to assume Christian...

Further going to speculate, the broad isn't  married. 

If so, the conclusion is, she didn't really want the job, she wanted to  push a Christian college to try to stand up for their beliefs so she could attempt  to roast them on it. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 09:24 AM (BeSEI)

3 I'm self employed. Negotiation is generally easy, although once I had to fire myself for demanding too much. I sued myself and was forced to pay myself a settlement.

Posted by: Weirddave at March 22, 2014 09:24 AM (N/cFh)

4 >>> How far is too far in negotiating in the current job market? Where's my coffee?!?

Posted by: fluffy, with his feet on the desk at March 22, 2014 09:24 AM (Ua6T/)

5 Maybe the college just didn't like the shape of her vagina.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 22, 2014 09:25 AM (IN7k+)

6 As far as negotiating, it seems almost everyone is really a special snowflake and deserves far more than any employer is willing to offer them, so it is best to avoid job-lock and let illegal aliens do whatever real work needs to be done (off the books of course).

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 22, 2014 09:25 AM (o3MSL)

7 Third prize is, YOU'RE FIRED.

Posted by: Blake at March 22, 2014 09:25 AM (8ZskC)

8 I just love large institutions of higher learning that aren't student centered.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 22, 2014 09:27 AM (o3MSL)

9 Why NDH, you are so old fashioned. Thinking you have to prove yourself before demanding perks.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at March 22, 2014 09:28 AM (4T1+X)

10 I'm self employed. Negotiation is generally easy, although once I had to fire myself for demanding too much. I sued myself and was forced to pay myself a settlement.


You should have called me first.  With my representation we could have really screwed you over.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 22, 2014 09:28 AM (8ZskC)

11 I took what I was offered, which was "$10 an hour and no benefits except for a flexible schedule, but when I get you fully trained you can work as a semi-independent contractor and I can pay you by the piece for a good bit more." Laying tile isn't what I had in mind when I got my M.A., but it is a paying job and I am learning some valuable skills. A good deal from my point of view.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 22, 2014 09:29 AM (9eflt)

12 Allow me to present my extensive resume.

Posted by: Sir Hillary Edmund Rodham Clinton at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (8ZskC)

13 the only woman I want to see unemployed is michelle obama

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (bDxDx)

14 Posted by: Weirddave at March 22, 2014 01:24 PM (N/cFh)

You work for an asshole.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (anti-Irish Bigot) at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (QFxY5)

15 Posted by: Weirddave at March 22, 2014 01:24 PM (N/cFh)

Your employees suck.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (anti-Irish Bigot) at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (QFxY5)

16 You should have called me first. With my representation we could have really screwed you over. *** LOL!

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (DmNpO)

17 In Academia, it's a huge pain in the ass and not a minor expense to get to the point where you want to make an offer, so it's not crazy to use a little of that leverage with them. They can't start over, and the next guy on the list may have his own demands/incompatibilities. This lady sounds like she tried to get piggy.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 09:31 AM (ZshNr)

18 Academia is different than real world work. Her first mistake, as I saw it, was not realizing that there were likely at LEAST 200 applicants for that job. Those liberal arts tenure track positions are always flooded with hundreds of applicants. It was that way ten years ago and it's likely a lot worse now. I spent years earning a couple of history degrees and not once did anyone get tenure in my department. It's tough. The sabbatical actually makes sense, though, and likely isn't a big deal. I knew tenure track professors that got a sabbatical to finish research for a book project. This is necessary because research, not teaching, determines whether you receive tenure.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 22, 2014 09:32 AM (oFCZn)

19 >>> the only woman I want to see unemployed is michelle obama Somewhere there is a nightclub in need of a bouncer.

Posted by: fluffy at March 22, 2014 09:32 AM (Ua6T/)

20 Laying tile isn't what I had in mind when I got my M.A., but it is a paying job and I am learning some valuable skills. A good deal from my point of view.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 22, 2014 01:29 PM (9eflt)



Sounds like a) you are willing to work and b) willing to learn, both of which are good characterisitics that will stand you in good stead.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 22, 2014 09:32 AM (o3MSL)

21 Dear Notre Dame University,

I would very much like to get into coaching when I finish my playing career.  However, I have some extra benefits I would like  you  to cover. 

I  have  7 baby mamas in 7 different cities.  I need time off to take care of their needs.  About  2 days a week, and every other weekend. 

Also, I'm gonna need you to sweeten the salary pot.  Child  support ain't cheap.

Can you help a brutha out? 

By the way, I believe I am  Head Coach material.  None  of this  Assistant to the Running Backs  Coach nonsense for me. 

Posted by: Adrian Peterson at March 22, 2014 09:33 AM (BeSEI)

22 6

it is best to avoid job-lock and let illegal aliens do whatever real work needs to be done (off the books of course).


Posted by: Hrothgar at March 22, 2014 01:25 PM (o3MSL)


Glad to see you are beginning to see Reason.


Wanna drag a toke off my blunt?

Posted by: Libertarian Party at March 22, 2014 09:33 AM (M5T54)

23 Sounds like a) you are willing to work and b) willing to learn, both of which are good characterisitics that will stand you in good stead. Thanks.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 22, 2014 09:33 AM (9eflt)

24 Laying tile isn't what I had in mind when I got my M.A., but it is a paying job and I am learning some valuable skills. A good deal from my point of view.


Also, with the flatulence issue an outdoor job is probably best.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 22, 2014 09:33 AM (8ZskC)

25 I prefer working with men.

Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 09:33 AM (y7PFk)

26 Posted by: Grey Fox at March 22, 2014 01:29 PM (9eflt)

And once you stop farting like a madman you'll make the really big bucks!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (anti-Irish Bigot) at March 22, 2014 09:34 AM (QFxY5)

27 25 I prefer working with men. Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 01:33 PM (y7PFk) Really? Me too!

Posted by: Jason Collins at March 22, 2014 09:35 AM (mx5oN)

28 Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 01:33 PM (y7PFk)

So do I.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at March 22, 2014 09:35 AM (QFxY5)

29 >>> And once you stop farting like a madman you'll make the really big bucks! Can you hook up a line to fill a methane tank on your back?

Posted by: fluffy at March 22, 2014 09:35 AM (Ua6T/)

30 25 I prefer working with men. Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 01:33 PM (y7PFk) Why's that? I have my suspicions, but is like to hear your reasons.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 09:37 AM (mx5oN)

31 The war on women caused the earthquake.w

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 22, 2014 09:37 AM (Mogjf)

32 I'd, not is.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 09:37 AM (mx5oN)

33 I work outside of academia so I can honestly say I have never seen anyone (make demands) negotiate perks like these and get the job. 

It might be prudent to wait approximately 90 days before becoming this aggressive.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 09:38 AM (PnMCP)

34 The great part about working with men is, you can insult them, their mother, their wife, children, whatever. Maybe some feelings get hurt. The next day, you say, D'ja see the game last night? Everything goes back to normal.

Just look at a women's elbow and off to HR you go.

Posted by: Bruce at March 22, 2014 09:38 AM (igJW1)

35 And people still believe the WSJ is a libertarian/conservative news paper.

Posted by: WVinMN at March 22, 2014 09:38 AM (Dge+E)

36 Saw this article about a week back when it was posted on thefrisky.com (meaning it was most likely pointed at by Instapundit).  The frisky folks, as I recall, tried to go all feminist and stand on her side but most posters rightfully torn her a new asshole.  Asking too much, trying to stretch her tenure period, failing to start when the college needed her to, etc.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at March 22, 2014 09:39 AM (FvyJS)

37 My first (and only) law job -- I was hired at the end of January, 1997.  The lawyer (friend of a friend) was starting a trial and for that period of time needed help.  He offered $20/hour.  I would have taken $15.  Frankly, I would have taken minimum wage -- not because I couldn't find a job paying more than that, but I was a total knucklehead (i.e., first year lawyer) and someone was going to pay me to learn my profession?  Gimme that!

Posted by: SFGoth at March 22, 2014 09:39 AM (GTls9)

38 Missing jet WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries: CEO of Malaysian Airlines finally admits to dangerous cargo four days after DENYING it

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 09:40 AM (e8kgV)

39
It's very apparent she never reached for the golden ring of success.  To solidify her position with the future employer, she must acquiesce to his subtle suggestion of a spectacular blowjob for employment. 

Feminist, bull dykes, and Jane Fonda need not apply!


Posted by: Doctor Fish at March 22, 2014 09:41 AM (nQjHM)

40 38 Missing jet WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries: CEO of Malaysian Airlines finally admits to dangerous cargo four days after DENYING it Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 01:40 PM (e8kgV) Somewhere a smart phone sits sadly idle.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 22, 2014 09:42 AM (oFCZn)

41 35 And people still believe the WSJ is a libertarian/conservative news paper. ... only the editorial board

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 09:42 AM (e8kgV)

42 13 the only woman I want to see unemployed is michelle obama

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 01:31 PM (bDxDx)


I'm not sure she has EVER been employed, at least in anything approaching a productive position. She is the essence of the race-hustler.

Posted by: tcn at March 22, 2014 09:42 AM (fwcEs)

43 5 Maybe the college just didn't like the shape of her vagina. Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 22, 2014 01:25 PM (IN7k+) It needed more sun.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at March 22, 2014 09:42 AM (bCEmE)

44 Generally speaking, the only time you have any real leverage in a hiring negotiation is when THEY are recruiting YOU.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at March 22, 2014 09:43 AM (5fSr7)

45 >>> It needed more sun. Mirrors

Posted by: fluffy at March 22, 2014 09:43 AM (Ua6T/)

46 It needed more sun. Posted by: Tami

Maybe it needed to be soaked first?

Posted by: Bruce at March 22, 2014 09:43 AM (igJW1)

47 34 The great part about working with men is, you can insult them, their mother, their wife, children, whatever. Maybe some feelings get hurt. The next day, you say, D'ja see the game last night? Everything goes back to normal.

Just look at a women's elbow and off to HR you go.
Posted by: Bruce

Yeah, but that's how men relate to each other outside of work.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 22, 2014 09:43 AM (GTls9)

48 The pre-tenure sabbatical is fairly common, I think. I know someone who's taking it. However, she clearly overestimated her worth in the job market, especially since Ph.D's are getting pumped out like crazy these days.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 09:44 AM (hFL/3)

49 If they need to put a professor in front of a classroom in September, delaying her start until sometime in 2015 (even January) means they have to find an adjunct/visiting/overload an existing professor to fill that hole.

Posted by: Fox2! at March 22, 2014 09:44 AM (cHwSy)

50 Yeah, but that's how men relate to each other outside of work.
Posted by: SFGoth

We must work to change that.

Posted by: Bruce at March 22, 2014 09:45 AM (igJW1)

51 Women bring baggage. Tend to be unreasonable and try to wield power when it isn't necessary. That's my experience with female lawyers.

Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 09:45 AM (y7PFk)

52 "even in the age of Lean In" ?? Wtf is the age of Lean In?

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 09:46 AM (x3YFz)

53 Academia is an ivory-tower of douchiness. Just about any idiot can make tenure by spouting idiocy--it's more about sales than intelligence, but once you learn the lingo, you should be good to go. Just check any morals or ethics at the door and forge on.

Posted by: tcn at March 22, 2014 09:46 AM (fwcEs)

54 If she really wanted the job she would have taken what was offered, made herself a valued member of the faculty, and then asked for the rest later. As it stands she got exactly what she had earned...nothing.

Posted by: fairweatherbill at March 22, 2014 09:46 AM (Naowb)

55 Since my wife isn't allowed to ask any sort of citizenship questions during the process, she had to basically teach a free course for a month last fall. The woman hired was a Korean citizen already teaching in Florida, but she needed a whole new visa, had to go home and get the kids, etc. and she couldn't start that process until she had the contract/final offer in hand. Huge cluster.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (ZshNr)

56 Since my wife isn't allowed to ask any sort of citizenship questions during the process, she had to basically teach a free course for a month last fall. The woman hired was a Korean citizen already teaching in Florida, but she needed a whole new visa, had to go home and get the kids, etc. and she couldn't start that process until she had the contract/final offer in hand. Huge cluster.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (ZshNr)

57

I'm looking for work as well right now and given the amount of interest and response to my submissions (practically nil) I don't think new hires are ina position to demand much right now.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (CLfqv)

58

I'm looking for work as well right now and given the amount of interest and response to my submissions (practically nil) I don't think new hires are ina position to demand much right now.

Posted by: BuckIV at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (CLfqv)

59 I volunteer to teach women's studies. heh.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (x3YFz)

60 I volunteer to teach women's studies. heh.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 09:47 AM (x3YFz)

61 I'm sticking with my original  theory.

She's a job applicant, in the same way Sandra Fluck is a poor student.  Both are asking Christian universities to pay for their slut ways, and then acting like the poor persecuted when they get flack for it. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 09:48 AM (BeSEI)

62 I'm sticking with my original  theory.

She's a job applicant, in the same way Sandra Fluck is a poor student.  Both are asking Christian universities to pay for their slut ways, and then acting like the poor persecuted when they get flack for it. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 09:48 AM (BeSEI)

63 Ever wish you were a one-eyed minority female midget? And then think: "hah...naw. I'm good."

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 09:49 AM (x3YFz)

64 The corruption at the heart of the Washington Post. http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/185689/ Â…

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 09:49 AM (ZPrif)

65 Obviously she was white, or they would have blamed racism.

Posted by: Lucky Pierre at March 22, 2014 09:50 AM (5fSr7)

66 Lets just say I know a JD/MBA, licensed attorney with 14 years higher education experience (8 of them in full time online faculty training and development) who is getting by doing occasional adjuncting gigs and $12/hour (after two raises) project work.. They would be very happy for any halfway decent full time offer.. But keep getting told "you are overqualified for our $16/hr. job....That woman can stuff her ego.

Posted by: JustDave in GR at March 22, 2014 09:50 AM (5yaV0)

67 51 Women bring baggage. Tend to be unreasonable and try to wield power when it isn't necessary. That's my experience with female lawyers. Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 01:45 PM (y7PFk) Fair enough. I've had experience with that, especially the wielding power when not necessary part. I've also had good experiences working with women, so it's a mixed bag.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 09:51 AM (mx5oN)

68 she sounds like she was not at all interested in spending time with the students I wouldn't hire her either

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 09:52 AM (zOTsN)

69 I also think there is no whinier profession than teachers. Bar none.

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 09:53 AM (zOTsN)

70 Starting salary is the one thing it is reasonable to ask for a bump in, if you think the offer is too low or you just can't make it on their offer. In this day and age, it's unlikely to get much over cost of living bumps if that in most fields.
 
So you're not going to make it up as you prove yourself; the pool of money for raises just isn't there.  YMMV
 
But asking for 5 or 6 special things? Special snowflake territory.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 22, 2014 09:54 AM (cSj40)

71 I wouldn't be too fussy in the current job market for academe. If I'm a welder? Yeah, I get to negotiate the perks.

Posted by: moviegique at March 22, 2014 09:54 AM (EE2qI)

72 As a woman I can tell you that the worst people I have ever worked for and with are ..... women.

Don't get me wrong, men can be straight pigs, and some can try to intimidate you, but a bunch of no's and a threat to go to HR usually shuts them down.  Women are not shut down - they are toxic assholes to their last working day!

The only two men that never "got the message" were a muslim and a jerk that turned out to be an illegal alien.  I got the muslim put on a different shift and that illegal got his ass deported.

Posted by: GrandeMe at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (o5drD)

73 Your analysis is spot-on. She's a "modern woman," which means she believes that the whole progressive playbook is gospel. (She believes in lies). And therefore jobs and homes and healthcare are rights, not something to be earned. She's just providing her employer with the timeline he needs to follow in order to meet her demands.

Posted by: frigger at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (I2IdM)

74 63 -

My experience has generally been, less an issue with women who are power hungry, and use whatever leverage they can  to get ahead, and more with the spineless  men  in charge  who give in to their every wish and whim. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (BeSEI)

75 Laying tile isn't what I had in mind when I got my M.A., but it is a paying job and I am learning some valuable skills. A good deal from my point of view.

Posted by: Grey Fox at March 22, 2014 01:29 PM (9eflt)



There can be some really good money made in floor covering if:


A) You develop a reputation for fast, quality work.

2)  Your body can stand up to the beating it takes.

Γ   You don't mind and can compete with the illegals undercutting your bids.


My brother's been doing it for about 25 years; the last 20 or so has almost exclusively been commercial work.  Most years he's grossing over 100K.  He's looking for something else to do now, though, as it's taken it's toll on him physically and he knows he can't keep doing it much longer.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (r/e1Q)

76 of course, there are some terrific teachers, but as a group, whiners

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (zOTsN)

77 The only time I even tried to negotiate I was 2/3rds thru as lead developer on a make or break hardware platform upgrade hiring on from consulting.  I stretched the barrel pretty good once.  Then 5 years down the road - market change, mgt. incompetence, competitors weaseling anti-trust, 9/11, etc. finished that place off.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (DL2i+)

78 65 I also think there is no whinier profession than teachers. Bar none. Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 01:53 PM (zOTsN) They do tend to bitch a lot. I wonder if the whole unionization thing has anything to do with it.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (mx5oN)

79 For the 10,001st time -- yet another fake racist campus hate crime committed by the Left. Retweeted by Jim Hoft DANEgerus ‏@DANEgerus 27m Racist dorm door writing was hoax http://shar.es/Bne3p

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 09:55 AM (ZPrif)

80 17 In Academia, it's a huge pain in the ass and not a minor expense to get to the point where you want to make an offer, so it's not crazy to use a little of that leverage with them. They can't start over, and the next guy on the list may have his own demands/incompatibilities. This lady sounds like she tried to get piggy. Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 01:31 PM (ZshNr) Agreed. Usually the whole process involves votes from the faculty, etc. They really are committed to the first candidate and they won't withdraw the offer easily. Of course, I'm at one of those non-student-centered universities where the candidate talks to the chair (Good Cop) who then talks to the dean (Bad Cop). So if the candidate makes a stupid request, the chair can say "that's not going to fly." A sabbatical prior to tenure, a full semester of maternity leave, and a start date in 2015. Are the last two distinct? Is she pregnant now and wants to start in January? The Nazareth philosophy department has 4 tenured faculty and 5 (not eligible for tenure) lecturers. By the way, two of them are women. So a late start due to maternity wouldn't be a big deal as long as it's unpaid. They can pay the lecturers to teach extra courses for the fall. I think the pre-tenure sabbatical really pissed them off. You don't do that at a small college if it's not offered. What they mean by "not student-focused" is no research. You teach and have personal contact with students. You don't have to publish/perish (although you should do a little to get tenure) and in that environment, a pre-tenure sabbatical is a paid vacation. My institution doesn't give pre-tenure sabbaticals and research is essential. Also, if a fresh philosophy assistant professor can even think about $65K at a place like Nazareth College, I am at the wrong school. I don't think Nazareth would pay $65K for somebody in a real field.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 09:56 AM (xSegX)

81 Maybe her vagina needed more Vitamin D?


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 22, 2014 09:56 AM (V70Uh)

82 One word - Bossy.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 09:56 AM (BL00c)

83 Nazareth is a "historically" Catholic school (founded by the Rochester province of the Sisters of St. Joseph). Didn't see anything on their web site saying they still were. Full disclosure: I went to schools staffed by, and my aunt is a member of, the Sisters of St. Joseph of Brentwood, NY.

Posted by: Fox2! at March 22, 2014 09:57 AM (cHwSy)

84 I'm self employed. Negotiation is generally easy, although once I had to fire myself for demanding too much. I sued myself and was forced to pay myself a settlement. Posted by: Weirddave at March 22, 2014 01:24 PM (N/cFh) I'm self-employed, too. Reecntly, I threatened to unionize, so I held an election. I lost.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at March 22, 2014 09:57 AM (zT0DN)

85 Why wouldn't you sound out the idea of these sweeteners over the phone beforehand?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 22, 2014 09:58 AM (DL2i+)

86 Joseph had sisters?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at March 22, 2014 09:59 AM (R8hU8)

87 Grey Fox - There's an old saying, from the Maine logging camps of the 1800's: "A farting horse will never tire, a farting man's the man to hire."

Posted by: Maine beanhole beans at March 22, 2014 10:00 AM (sKRXt)

88 Apparently, 'W' responded in the comments on The Philosophy Smoker's blog: This is W — I thought I would just offer a few more facts. Up front: I agree with those arguing that I made a mistake in negotiating. It was a clear case of a miscommunication between the institution and myself. This is how I thought negotiating worked, how I learned to do it, and, for that matter, how I think it should work: you ask about a number of perks and maybe get some of them. I was expecting to get very few of the perks I asked about, if anything at all, given what would be possible for a small college like Nazareth. I certainly did not expect to get either a junior leave or a year for my postdoc. I just thought there was no harm in asking. Since many commenters seem to be interested in the salary increase I asked for. Maybe two things will be helpful. 1. I asked for a less then 20% increase in salary. 2. When I negotiated for another tenure track offer in philosophy I asked for a more than 20% increase in salary and was offered it. In that case, too, I was not expecting it to be offered. I have also been involved in negotiating in non-academic contexts and (maybe wrongly) got the sense that it works along the “there is no harm in asking”-lines as well. Of course my limited negotiating experience by no means provides data about the right or best thing to do in these kinds of situations. On maternity leave: I had already had discussions with someone at the college about maternity leave, and understood that what I was asking for was already unofficial policy. In other words, I was asking for what they were verbally offering me in writing. I would also like to stress that I was very excited about the job and in general about the prospect of teaching at a small college with a high teaching load. If the offer had been upheld, and I would have chosen to not accept the offer, it would certainly not have been because I want a more research intensive job — I don’t. The reason for asking about the perks (especially about the course reduction and about limiting the number of preps) was not only to make room for my research but also to ramp up to doing a good job teaching a number of classes that I have not taught before. When I visited I did get the sense that continuing research at a reasonable rate would be expected for tenure. All that said, I think that doing a good job with both their teaching and research expectations is most likely possible without being granted any of the perks I asked about. There was plenty of much warmer emailing going on between Nazareth’s philosophy department and myself before I sent the negotiating email you saw on the Smoker. And I had hoped to have sufficiently communicated my excitement. Earlier in the day before I sent the email posted, I sent another email that was meant as a warning that I was now switching to what one might call a “negotiating tone”. I obviously didn’t do a good enough job communicating that, though. All this said, I am flabbergasted by all the moralizing in the comments on this thread. Hopefully a few philosophers on the market can learn from my mistakes.

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at March 22, 2014 10:01 AM (bCEmE)

89 NDH You failed to point out she wanted a SIX month paid sabbatical before her tenure. She didn't want the job, but wanted to make a scene of her poor self. SIX months? Give me a break.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 22, 2014 10:02 AM (0FSuD)

90 53--- Just about any idiot can make tenure by spouting idiocy-- Posted by: tcn at March 22, 2014 01:46 PM (fwcEs) ------------------------ Sure, but you have to spout the right idiocy at the right time to the right people--- and be supported by the right idiots from the right circles at the right schools. Otherwise all those hundreds of PhDs churned out yearly would all have tenure, when in fact few of them even have academic jobs.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 10:02 AM (dfYL9)

91 Generally speaking, the only time you have any real leverage in a hiring negotiation is when THEY are recruiting YOU. Posted by: Lucky Pierre at March 22, 2014 01:43 PM (5fSr7) I was going to make the same point. If you have 5 different people competing for your skills, you can dictate. If you are 1 of 5 competing, you don't have jack.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at March 22, 2014 10:03 AM (zT0DN)

92 Even if all the other benefits requested were okay, if you said you would not start until next year you would not be considered. When I need someone it is now not for some distant time in the far future. That alone is enough to dropped from consideration.

Posted by: Steve In Tulsa at March 22, 2014 10:03 AM (UnFIU)

93 That makes sense. Good of her to write it.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:03 AM (ZshNr)

94
Amazingly, I'm in before 100 comments.  A long time lurker at AoS, I typically wander into a mature thread usually with well over 100 or 200 comments.

Regarding this story, in the poor employment environment that the light-bringer has continued to further (one of his few actual accomplishments beyond golf in my opinion), it is amazing that anyone would try to push the envelope of an employer too far.  That seems all to true especially in academia, where it seems there are hundreds of applicants for every position.  Several of the folks where I work in private industry aren't necessarily happy with our current situations but also realize that a job right now that pays the bills is a job worth keeping.

Posted by: Timmy in AZ at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (TCn0v)

95 The traitor and spy Snowden is now revealing, from his Putin-supplied safe house in Moscow, how the US spied on the Chicoms -- the same Chicoms who routinely hack US telecom and defense networks. Snowden still not criticizing Putin's seizure of Crimea. Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews NSA breached servers of Chinese telecommunications giant, Huawei, Edward Snowden documents reveal - @nytimes http://nyti.ms/1gctX9r

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (ZPrif)

96 30 25 I prefer working with men. Posted by: NCKate at March 22, 2014 01:33 PM (y7PFk) Why's that? I have my suspicions, but is like to hear your reasons. Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 01:37 PM (mx5oN) I can't answer for NCKate, but as for myself I agree with her statement. The vast majority of women I've worked with were catty, took everything very personally, were inconsistent in their work, and unreliable in general. The women I've worked with who were in management or other positions of power were usually really bad about trying to project an air of control and confidence that didn't come off right, and in reality they were very insecure and job-scared underneath it all. I have never had a female boss that wasn't an absolute disaster. Honestly, men are generally just fun to work around. They're usually pretty funny, too. And some got even funnier once they realized I wasn't touchy and wouldn't report them to HR for telling an occasional off-color joke in my presence. On the flip side of that, when I worked in environments that had predominantly female employees, it was usually pretty volatile and uncomfortable. Ette's are excluded from this commentary, obviously.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (qFpRI)

97 ~ tap tap tap tap tap ~ ... so then Hadji said to the person of Human Resources that the ankles of the infidel whore in then next cubicle were causing Hadji to be the chubbed throughout the day ... wait, this microphone? It is on? Yes? and so... Hello! It is I, Hadji, the Comic who is Islamic and performs as the Ten Ninety-Nine contractor ... for you IRS people in the audience. People who know Hadji know that Hadji is the fan of the working person. Hadji does not sign autographs, because that would put Hadji within the reach of the common man. But Hadji knows on in which pocket to stuff the pita ... if you know what I mean. So Hadji will do the working man humor. What is the difference between a person shoveling the poop of animals all day and Press Secretary Jay Carney? A shower makes the person who shovelled clean. How can one tell if a job has been created by the Obama Administration? The person who is working because of the President is surrounded by $1,000,000,000 worth of solar panels. Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, and Markos Moulitsas walk into the bar ... they die of thirst because the bartender cannot see them because of their stature. Seriously, Hadji has been to the home of Robert Reich ... Hadji thought the lawn jockey had come to animation. and, Hadji will leave the people with the laugh so they can resume looking at Monster.com and consider selling sexual services on the Craigslist ... Prepare for the laugh ... How did President Obama break his hand? He was told to punch a time clock ... and having not been familiar with manual labor President Obama punched a time clock. He then sued the manufacturer of the time clock. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Remember to place coins for the waitresses as the tip and that the drink minimum is at two. _

Posted by: Hadji the Muslim Comic at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (4CVLy)

98 57 I volunteer to teach women's studies. you're joining the air force?

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (bDxDx)

99 85 -

Again, I'm sticking with my theory.  She ain't married.  That's  why the maternity leave thing is a no-go. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:05 AM (BeSEI)

100 20% raise? Something tells me she lacks the talent to justify such a leap in compensation.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:06 AM (dt779)

101 NavyCopJoe, I think Tango Nine was volunteering for submarine duty or was that Shore Patrol?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 10:06 AM (BL00c)

102 You are correct Ace. If you do not have a job you main concern is to get a job then work on improving your position which should come with time given you work hard and are an asset to the fascist management for whom you work. But alas, too many of the oversexed, overeducated, no talent to sell class expects perks and over the top salaries right out of the starting gate. Never mind all the PhD's I know who can't even wipe their own asses let alone find where the can is.

Posted by: IrishEd at March 22, 2014 10:06 AM (bfm04)

103 Yeah, but that's how men relate to each other outside of work. Posted by: SFGoth at March 22, 2014 01:43 PM (GTls9) Guys relate like that. "Men" don't. A friend of mine is in the same field in another city. We constantly blast each other on a forum for our profession in the way guys do with their friends. We were at a meeting, and he told me people had come up to him privately and asked why there was all this bad blood between us. I guess they've never had any real guys as friends.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at March 22, 2014 10:06 AM (zT0DN)

104 Tim-Tim-TIMMEH! (Don't be such a lurker.)

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:07 AM (dt779)

105 The worst bosses I've had were women. I've also worked for great bosses who were women and they were worth their weight in gold.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 22, 2014 10:08 AM (oFCZn)

106 98 I think Tango Nine was volunteering for submarine duty or was that Shore Patrol? it'd be the shore patties

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 10:09 AM (bDxDx)

107 I've also worked for great bosses who were women and they were worth their weight in gold. So, they were chubby? Why do women always want to devalue themselves by losing weght?

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:10 AM (dt779)

108 My daughter teaches nursing at a college for less than this woman was asking to teach Philosophy. Philosophy? Really? At least there's a use for nurses. My daughter also timed her children so that they were born during the summer break. No maternity leave required. Or requested.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 22, 2014 10:10 AM (Vg/fl)

109 Sounds kinda bossy.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 22, 2014 10:10 AM (udjuE)

110 A good population of philosophers is necessary to keep the hemlock industry booming.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 22, 2014 10:11 AM (8ZskC)

111 Even after her explanation that someone posted, NDH's comment is still how I view the candidate: "I look at her demands...and I see a potential candidate more interested in negotiating the time spent NOT doing her job" Bingo. Can the candidate not see the implications of her request? And her field is philosophy??

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 22, 2014 10:11 AM (gBnkX)

112 Posted by: Tami at March 22, 2014 02:01 PM (bCEmE) That makes sense. Good of her to write it. Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 02:03 PM (ZshNr) What she doesn't get is that her perfectly rational explanation "I shot for the moon and didn't realize they'd pull the offer, I figured they'd just say `Take our offer or leave it.'" does make sense. By the way, it is rare in academia for them to pull an offer. I can see Nazareth's point, though, that she basically was asking for vacation time. However, either she or the WSJ or both decided that this would be a "sexism" issue. The maternity thing was the one thing they would have given her without question, it was the rest of it.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:11 AM (xSegX)

113 it'd be the shore patties

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 02:09 PM (bDxDx)


Hey now!  I did a 90 day TAD at San Ysidro as Border Patrol.  It was a pretty cool job, even if it cost me my sea pay kicker.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 22, 2014 10:12 AM (r/e1Q)

114 Jim Hoft ‏@gatewaypundit FAKE #HATE: Black Michigan Student Wrote Hateful Messages On Her Own Dorm Room Door http://shar.es/Bnxi4 via @gatewaypundit #NOH8

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 10:12 AM (ZPrif)

115 Everything wrong with me is your fault.

Posted by: W[/i] [/b] at March 22, 2014 10:13 AM (5ikDv)

116 I have had one direct female supervisor in my loooong working life. I would desecrate her grave if I cared enough to find out where she was buried. Female co-workers are fine. Worked for federal agency that had a female regional director (far, far, far above me) and she went to prison. It involved her brother getting IT contracts. LOL.

Posted by: Lester at March 22, 2014 10:14 AM (2UPXV)

117 So, they were chubby? Why do women always want to devalue themselves by losing weght? Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 02:10 PM (dt779) Heh. It's just that when they were great they were really great. They are rare in my experience.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 22, 2014 10:14 AM (oFCZn)

118 109 -

Wrong.

Catholic  universities don't give unmarried women maternity leave, in writing.

Which  she specifically says she wanted, even though it was ALREADY informally understood that she could have it. 

She's an  activist, not a job applicant. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:14 AM (BeSEI)

119 "Mommy never loved me and Daddy never taught me how to negotiate for a compensation package."

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:14 AM (dt779)

120 Phony hate crime?  Ah Tawana Bradley strikes again.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 10:15 AM (BL00c)

121 BC I think you are correct. Not married and asking for maternity leave? Big flags for a Christian school. Ghey or out of wedlock? Neither works for them Famous Nazarene? Gary Hart of "Monkey Business" boat fame.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 22, 2014 10:15 AM (0FSuD)

122 @115 It's not a Catholic school.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 22, 2014 10:16 AM (0FSuD)

123 I don't think this college is Catholic anymore. Look at this: ROCHESTER, NY (03/21/2014)(readMedia)-- Nazareth College's Career Services Department is hosting Your Queer Career with Riley Folds on Monday, April 7 from 6 to 7 p.m. Folds will discuss topics from his book Your Queer Career: The Ultimate Guide for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Job Seekers. This lecture is free and open to the public and is located in the Palladoro Lounge in the Nazareth College Arts Center. Nazareth College is located on 4245 East Avenue, Rochester, N.Y.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 22, 2014 10:17 AM (Vg/fl)

124 So they offered her 55 and she asked for 65. That's a big bump, that ten grand will come in raises over time, but if they're offering 55, they might have 58 to spend, maybe 60 for the perfect candidate. The people making the choices know what they and their colleagues make/made, so there's not going to be a lot of people going to bat for her. She said it in her post up thread by Tami. Got way too sloppy with negotiating, didn't consider how her requests would be seen.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:17 AM (ZshNr)

125 95 57 I volunteer to teach women's studies. you're joining the air force? Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 02:05 PM (bDxDx) nicely played, squid!

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:17 AM (x3YFz)

126 >>maybe wrongly) got the sense that it works along the “there is no harm in asking”-lines as well. Wow. Maybe wrongly?? She didn't get it and she still doesn't get it.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 22, 2014 10:19 AM (SUKHu)

127 I lost several internet "friends" pointing out that for an employer, a man is a better investment as a worker than a woman because of the reality of pregnancy. If all things are absolutely equal between an average man and an average woman, one of them might - and indeed is likely - to miss months of maternity leave which in many states is required to be paid. And that means she's just not as attractive a candidate, fair or not.

Posted by: Guy who ate too much Taco Bell at March 22, 2014 10:20 AM (zfY+H)

128 119 -

Someone above said it was. 

Nominally, or otherwise. 

I think  that's the key though.  If the university is tied to a  Diocese, or still has ties to a religious order, they can't put things  like paid maternity leave for unmarried chicks on paper. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:20 AM (BeSEI)

129 The trouble with women, in general, is that they have this idea that being a bossy bitch is the way to be an assertive leader. Wrong.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 10:21 AM (hFL/3)

130 124 I lost several internet "friends" pointing out that for an employer, a man is a better investment as a worker than a woman because of the reality of pregnancy. If all things are absolutely equal between an average man and an average woman, one of them might - and indeed is likely - to miss months of maternity leave which in many states is required to be paid. And that means she's just not as attractive a candidate, fair or not. Posted by: Guy who ate too much Taco Bell at March 22, 2014 02:20 PM (zfY+H) Hire lesbians. You think I'm kidding.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:21 AM (x3YFz)

131 Georgetown isn't   really a "catholic"  university anymore either, but that's  still where Sandra Fluck went to make her stink. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:21 AM (BeSEI)

132 Catholic universities don't give unmarried women maternity leave, in writing. Which she specifically says she wanted, even though it was ALREADY informally understood that she could have it. She's an activist, not a job applicant. Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 02:14 PM (BeSEI) Interesting. I take your point, yes. Although if that was her goal, she's not expressing it. She also could have just asked for the maternity leave. But let's think about this: Is she pregnant now? Does that mean that she just got pregnant a few weeks ago? It seems to me that she was asking for BOTH a late start due to her postdoc and a maternity leave to be named later. Even if the school wasn't permitting maternity leave for unmarried people officially (but was, under the table) what did it matter to her now?

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:22 AM (xSegX)

133 The problem too many people have with work is that they think their employer exists to give them stuff and the business is about being fair and paying their wages. That business owner is there for the same reason you clock in: to get a paycheck. If that employer doesn't think you'll make them as much money, then you're not the one for the job.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 22, 2014 10:23 AM (zfY+H)

134 By the way, it is rare in academia for them to pull an offer.

In academia are they still negotiating when the offer is made? In my work you don't get an offer until most everything is worked out. As for negotiating for time off, don't ask for it unless you have already paid for it such as a cruise or something that you have already promised and cannot get out of going. I once had to ask or rather tell them that I had to have a long weekend I couldn't get out of. They asked what it was and I said I had to take my mom to a family reunion in another state, made an face, and they laughed and said I was a good son. I got it.

Posted by: Lester at March 22, 2014 10:23 AM (2UPXV)

135 Folds will discuss topics from his book Your Queer Career: The Ultimate Guide for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Job Seekers. Gays have a 20% higher median income than the general population. They're doing just fine.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:23 AM (xSegX)

136 "Hire lesbians. You think I'm kidding." Lesbians have children too. My husband's boss is a lesbian who just got back from maternity leave. Weirdly, she's the only female boss he has who isn't a bossy bitch.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 10:23 AM (hFL/3)

137 #WomenOnWar - how to properly negotiate http://tinyurl.com/nu9hwjq

Posted by: kbdabear at March 22, 2014 10:24 AM (aTXUx)

138 So they offered her 55 and she asked for 65. That's a big bump, that ten grand will come in raises over time, but if they're offering 55, they might have 58 to spend, maybe 60 for the perfect candidate. The people making the choices know what they and their colleagues make/made, so there's not going to be a lot of people going to bat for her. She said it in her post up thread by Tami. Got way too sloppy with negotiating, didn't consider how her requests would be seen. Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 02:17 PM (ZshNr) Another thing people fail to realize is that every dollar of salary probably costs an employer $1.20-1.25 because of all the employer crap they have to pay.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at March 22, 2014 10:25 AM (zT0DN)

139 Lauren I think its a matter of confidence.  As in they will cover up their lack of leadership by upping the volume of the screeching.  Hoping no one will notice.  Much like the PA AG Kathleen Kane.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 10:25 AM (BL00c)

140 Yeah but even lesbians get that yen for a baby. A man can't get pregnant, ever. Both can get cancer, whatever, both can break a leg, but only one gender gets pregnant and that's an inescapable fact of life. Yes, its unfair, yes its mean, and yes its frustrating but none of that changes the truth.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 22, 2014 10:25 AM (zfY+H)

141 In academia are they still negotiating when the offer is made? They bring in several candidates and make the offer to one, with a timeline on the offer. I.e., the offer expires after a fixed time and goes to the next candidate.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:26 AM (xSegX)

142 John Schindler ‏@20committee "Crimea is Only the First Step": former senior Putin adviser explains why a wider war for #Ukraine is likely, soon http://20committee.com/2014/03/22/crimea-is-only-the-first-step-former-putin-adviser/ Â…

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 10:26 AM (ZPrif)

143 The academic, who was referred to as “W” in the original post on the blog Philosophy Smoker, asked in a brief email for five sweeteners, including a salary bump to $65,000 (it’s not clear what the original offer was), a pre-tenure sabbatical, and a semester of maternity leave. First you will blow me, then we discuss when you'll feel like showing up

Posted by: Dr Mel Gibson at March 22, 2014 10:26 AM (aTXUx)

144 No offense to any philosophy morons, but what kind of "research" does this field typically require?  This is a real question.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (8lmkt)

145 120--- I don't think this college is Catholic anymore. ... .....Folds will discuss topics from his book Your Queer Career: The Ultimate Guide for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Job Seekers. Posted by: grammie winger at March 22, 2014 02:17 PM (Vg/fl) ---------------------- Yep. We build. They destroy. How many "Wesleyan" colleges are remotely Wesleyan anymore?!?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (dfYL9)

146 When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges.

Posted by: Jack Handey at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (krdD5)

147 Yeah, the contract comes via FedEx and sits like a time bomb until your wife decides to commit. At least that's my experience.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (ZshNr)

148 "Once I prove my value to the employer, then I might have a leg to stand on in negotiating a perk or two".. That is a great move. I offered to take a lower starting salary and renegotiate in six months in my last interview, 16 years ago at the company I currently run.

Posted by: Dirks strewn at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (77F0w)

149 As a hiring manager, I typically see 30-50 candidates for every open posting.  While most do not fit the bill, it's highly unlikely in the current jobs market that we don't have at least half-a-dozen qualified candidates.

So, when one of the individuals in that potential group throws up a roadblock (like asking for more than offered), that often opens the door to the second choice candidate.

I'm betting that, instead of ANYTHING sex-related, it was a simple matter of the next person on the list being more-accepting of the base offer.

But hey, why not blame sexism, instead of just being a common, everyday, greedy asshole?  Let's run with that!

Posted by: Dave G at March 22, 2014 10:27 AM (8dASC)

150 lol, Jack Handey!

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 10:28 AM (8lmkt)

151 My husband's boss is a lesbian who just got back from maternity leave. Weirdly, she's the only female boss he has who isn't a bossy bitch. Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 02:23 PM (hFL/3) Uh. But there's that thing that goes in the... ...and doctors... /scratches head Dag no understand!

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:28 AM (x3YFz)

152 This whole Crimea mess ultimately falls upon the French.  Don't hang an onerous peace treaty around someone's neck if you're not willing to enforce it.  1936.  No Hitler, no WWII.  No WWII no rapid industrialization of the USSR and no USSR in Eastern Europe.  No USSR, no Cold War, etc.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 22, 2014 10:29 AM (GTls9)

153 136 Lauren I think its a matter of confidence. As in they will cover up their lack of leadership by upping the volume of the screeching. Hoping no one will notice. Much like the PA AG Kathleen Kane. Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 02:25 PM (BL00c) I am of the opinion that it's more about women thinking (and constantly being told that) they need to be like men in order to be equal or whatever. So some women get into the workplace and try to ape what they thinks is male assertive behavior and it comes off as bitchy instead of confidently leading. The few women I worked with in leadership who weren't nightmares and were successful had embraced their own management style and it was different from what the men were trying to do.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 10:29 AM (qFpRI)

154 Lesbos get pregnant.  The also want the health plan to pay for in-vitro fertilization from some gay guy donor.

Evidence"  My niece.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 22, 2014 10:29 AM (V70Uh)

155 Speaking of this type of disingenuous activism, what do you think the real reason behind that stupid teen girl's lawsuit against her own parents? There's more to this story than we know. I think the lawsuit was a test to see if the Left can somehow "owe" their children certain things such as a college education. Because if that were the case, it would pave the way for Universal Education.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 22, 2014 10:30 AM (G8LR7)

156 " I think the lawsuit was a test"
I'm sure that that was in someone's mind at the law firm yeah, but I am pretty sure that lawyer is her lover and wants to hook up his underage bedwarmer.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 22, 2014 10:31 AM (zfY+H)

157 151 Lesbos get pregnant. The also want the health plan to pay for in-vitro fertilization from some gay guy donor. Evidence" My niece. Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 22, 2014 02:29 PM (V70Uh) /stares blankly at computer Now you guys are just fucking with me. right?

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:31 AM (x3YFz)

158 No offense to any philosophy morons, but what kind of "research" does this field typically require? I'm not afraid to offend. Writing a book, basically. It's actually the problem with the Ph.D. system, as applied to the humanities. While it's very easy for a natural scientist to say that he's doing "original research", it's far more difficult for somebody in the humanities to do both significant and original research. Which is why you end up with Queer Studies, Womens Studies, Chicano Studies, and on and on. You have to write something new. Or at least nominally new. Nobody wants you to just teach Shakespeare.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:31 AM (xSegX)

159 Yeah, I'm going with "she was boning the lawyer" too.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 10:31 AM (hFL/3)

160 And the key to getting a job? Feelers. You gotta have 'feelers' and you gotta have your feelers 'out there.' I dunno what feelers are, but they're important and useful.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 22, 2014 10:32 AM (G8LR7)

161 Hello, tangonine.

Posted by: The Turkey Baster at March 22, 2014 10:32 AM (hFL/3)

162 How far is to far? It's a hirer's market. Take what you can get. Having said that, she should have probably just asked for a 9 month contract, which is quite common in academia especially "student centered" places, unless they really want you to teach during the summer.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 10:33 AM (HDwDg)

163 tangoine,  no, I am not messing with you.  What I wrote is true.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 22, 2014 10:33 AM (V70Uh)

164 You also wanna have a "few irons in the fire."

Posted by: soothsayer at March 22, 2014 10:33 AM (G8LR7)

165 Sometimes a vitamin D deficiency makes people go koo-koo-bananas.

Fresh air is the first step toward recovery.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 10:33 AM (PnMCP)

166 Soccer is taking over the nation Empty Seats Galore ‏@EmptySeatsPics New England Revolution's home opener today. #MLS (via @NESoccerJournal) pic.twitter.com/xIoS7B2TeD

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 10:33 AM (ZPrif)

167 After you get the job, it's important to remember, you can be right or you can be employed, but you can't be both.

Posted by: ALH at March 22, 2014 10:34 AM (YpO4x)

168 Every day is a networking day.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:34 AM (ZshNr)

169 I am very good friends with a Lesbian couple who are both pregnant. All of their Lesbian friends are trying to get pregnant. It's a scene, man.

Posted by: a moron at March 22, 2014 10:34 AM (KgWKP)

170 129 -

There are a few unanswered questions, and I am merely speculating on them, if they are answered a  certain way.

Is she already pregnant?  I don't know.

Is she married?  Again, I don't know.

Is Nazareth  even nominally "Catholic"  anymore?  I have no idea. 

She does say, however, in that  response Tami posted above, that she was told unofficially that she could have maternity leave, and that she was asking for it in writing. 

I think it is telling that she does not say whether she is currently pregnant or not.   Her  words strike me as awfully casual, which leads  me to believe the job isn't really all that critical to her.  So either way, whether she's really a lazy sot, looking for  a  cushy job that pays well, but doesn't require a lot of work, or she's an activist, looking to score one for her  and her  sisters,   she's bad news. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:34 AM (BeSEI)

171 It's actually the problem with the Ph.D. system, as applied to the humanities. While it's very easy for a natural scientist to say that he's doing "original research", it's far more difficult for somebody in the humanities to do both significant and original research. Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 02:31 PM (xSegX) Which is the pretext for the argument that all disciplines are not created equal. Conferring the title of PhD to an astrophysicist shouldn't be the same as a PhD in navel gazing (I think I misspelled wymyn's studies)

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:35 AM (x3YFz)

172 141--- No offense to any philosophy morons, but what kind of "research" does this field typically require? This is a real question. Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 02:27 PM (8lmkt) --------------- It depends. If you do critical or historical work, it would be pretty much the same kind of thing that a historian or a literature scholar would do. If you are working on original analytics, it involves a lot of blather....or mathematical, logical work. At a small college, the first is more likely.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 10:35 AM (dfYL9)

173 a PhD in navel gazing (I think I misspelled wymyn's studies) Your elevation is off. Bring her down a few clicks and you'll be on target.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:36 AM (KgWKP)

174 I am an associate professor at a liberal arts university about twice the size of Nazareth. Her demands were at best ill-advised for someone bringing nothing to the table. Some points: 1) This is not a big research school. Teaching is central to their mission. The entire letter tells me she doesn’t want to teach, will teach as little as possible, and then leave as soon as she gets an offer from a bigger school. I’d pass on a man making those demands. 2) Parental leave and few new preps almost go without saying. Bringing them up just makes you look bad. 3) Why would you prefer a year of postdoc over a professorship? It’s less money, less status but you don’t have to teach. This plus the “pre-tenure” sabbatical tells me she can’t produce research and teach at the same time. Since the job is to teach and produce research it means she doesn’t think she can do the job. 4) For very class she doesn’t teach, the school has to hire someone else to do that. That’s 8 classes a year that someone has to cover for her. (Nazareth’s website indicates a 4/4 load). 5) The starting salary is too high. That’s on par for an associate prof in a physical science at that size school. The higher salaries in academia are engineering, medicine, law - y’know, the disciplines where the school has to compete with non-academic salaries. No one outside of a school is hiring philosophers. 6) It’s a starting salary; I’m sure she’ll expect raises and cost of living increases, which tend to go by percentages. Better to knock their socks off and get a (well-deserved) raise sometime in the next few years. 7) That salary doesn’t include grants. Bring in the money and you get to keep some (see above re: other disciplines). If she’s really that good she could easily add $10K plus free travel to her income and help the school as well (they get a cut too). Every engineering prof I know does outside consulting. Same for law and medicine. The last tenure-track listing we had drew over 150 applications. Chances are the number two choice is equally qualified and easier to get along with. We want someone who’ll jump in to help out enthusiastically. After twenty years we’ll all say you’ve earned a light schedule and easy committees, but pay your dues first, newbie. 9) She wasn’t negotiating. Negotiating means “I’ll give you X if you give me Y.” Was she going to work harder for that extra money? Bring in a quarter million in grant money? Is she a superstar? These type of demands would only be a good idea if another college had already promised her those things. She was demanding, which means she said, “Give me Y or I’m gone.” She got her answer.

Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 10:37 AM (rusAS)

175 "It's a hirer's market. Take what you can get."
This is something people don't seem to grok. Tons of unemployed people = businesses can pick and choose exactly what they want and will reject you for a lot less. Be the most attractive worker you can, don't be demanding and pushy.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 22, 2014 10:37 AM (zfY+H)

176 160 tangoine, no, I am not messing with you. What I wrote is true. Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 22, 2014 02:33 PM (V70Uh) but... the thing about guys and the whole reproductive process. You have to mix the salt with the pepper kinda thing? Dag confused. Dag angry!

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:37 AM (x3YFz)

177 I am very good friends with a Lesbian couple who are both pregnant. All of their Lesbian friends are trying to get pregnant. It's a scene, man. Posted by: a moron

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 10:37 AM (zOTsN)

178 How about Theatricality in Medieval Architecture? That's the latest tome wifey is working on. Actually it's just an article, 30 pages, but the research docs/images take up half a bookcase and all of the dining room table.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:38 AM (ZshNr)

179 @ 168 WUWT...
Some sheep made a 3 card Monte dealer Presidente"
And Polls Show They like It!!!!!!

Posted by: Carmine the Fatty at March 22, 2014 10:39 AM (Ypcwm)

180 LESBIAN bREEDER REPORTING FOR dUTY!!!!

Posted by: Carmine the Fatty at March 22, 2014 10:40 AM (Ypcwm)

181 155 It's actually the problem with the Ph.D. system, as applied to the humanities. While it's very easy for a natural scientist to say that he's doing "original research", it's far more difficult for somebody in the humanities to do both significant and original research......You have to write something new. Or at least nominally new. Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 02:31 PM (xSegX) ------------------------- THIS. It's a major problem and a corrupting influence.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 10:40 AM (dfYL9)

182 166 I am very good friends with a Lesbian couple who are both pregnant. O_O Someone is going to get clawed to death.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 10:40 AM (hFL/3)

183 Even though I had female managers I always got along with, they would make work hell for my female co-workers, therefore, indirectly making work hell for me.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 22, 2014 10:41 AM (V4CBV)

184 Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 02:37 PM (rusAS)

Great summation there, CJM.  I hope the special snowflake has a chance to read it.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 10:41 AM (8lmkt)

185 I am very good friends with a Lesbian couple who are both pregnant. All of their Lesbian friends are trying to get pregnant. It's a scene, man. Posted by: a moron geez, sorry. spastic fingers today I have a very good friend whose husband has a lesbian sister. Sister is married to a woman. They wanted to have a baby. They asked brother to donate sperm via turkey baster to impregnate sister's partner. They had two children that way. Brother's sperm used to impregnate sister's partner then they break up. sister gets a new partner. its a mess. and cousins are really half-siblings its lesbiantown, jake

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 10:41 AM (zOTsN)

186 its lesbiantown, jake Is that it? I thought we were just passing the wharf?

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:42 AM (KgWKP)

187 Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 02:41 PM (zOTsN) Oh good grief! That's a huge mess.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 10:43 AM (qFpRI)

188 Don't ask me about negotiations.
I spent my entire life paying list price, and taking whatever wages my employer would offer.

"Just be glad you have a job", my mother would tell me with her child hood experiences of the depression.

Posted by: The Ever Failing Smith at March 22, 2014 10:43 AM (THywp)

189 The last tenure-track listing we had drew over 150 applications. Chances are the number two choice is equally qualified and easier to get along with. We want someone whoÂ’ll jump in to help out enthusiastically. After twenty years weÂ’ll all say youÂ’ve earned a light schedule and easy committees, but pay your dues first, newbie. Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 02:37 PM (rusAS) I'm a lecturer (bottom of the barrel). Been teaching at the university since I was an undergrad. Yes, you read that correctly. They had a dearth of grad students so they were forced to pick up seniors to teach labs. Going on 20 years now, on and off, between deployments and other stuff, I've been teaching there. Know what that "pay your dues" thing gets me? Nada. I'm going to muscle up and tell you I'm the best physics teacher in the dept. But I'm life fucked because I have a masters in space operations and not a PhD. They ferry in the polish and asian guys for those spots. /spit fuck 'em.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:43 AM (x3YFz)

190 My old lawyer here was both City Attorney and Federal Magistrate. His thoughts were "if both sides are unhappy, it's probably a fair negotiation."

He was a top-notch lawyer, an a good guy. Yeah, I know all the jokes but sometimes even honest people need a lawyer....

Posted by: backhoe at March 22, 2014 10:44 AM (ULH4o)

191 171 --CJM--- Great comment. Well said. Nailed it.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 10:44 AM (dfYL9)

192 then they break up. sister gets a new partner. its a mess. and cousins are really half-siblings

its lesbiantown, jake

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 02:41 PM (zOTsN)


quite a bit of that kind of thing going on these days and it really is a mess.  probably the lawyers are the only ones who benefit.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 10:44 AM (8lmkt)

193 Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 02:34 PM (BeSEI) The WSJ article doesn't say it, but she asked to not prep more than 3 classes during the first year (or 2? I forget) I think that was the killer. Someone in the comments pointed out that most of Nazareth's faculty teach 4 classes a semester. She was asking for special treatment, they told her to sod off. I honestly think it had less to do with anything other than that.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 10:45 AM (HDwDg)

194 A lefty's Grievance Mentality includes a List of Demands. Its not Fair! and its not fair that its not Fair! Thats fairly obvious

Posted by: Where's Batman? at March 22, 2014 10:45 AM (9/iF+)

195 178 -

Oh ho ho!  (Did I use enough ho's?)

It's much easier than you think to write original  "research"  if by research you mean taking   all the old tried and true "theories"  and applying marxist/feminist concepts to them. 

You don't  even really have to do any actual,  you know, research.  You can write you papers from that perspective, and "scholarly" journals will fall all over themselves to publish your findings. 

Humanities.  Yes, you have to call them "doctor." 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:46 AM (BeSEI)

196 191 A lefty's Grievance Mentality includes a List of Demands. Its not Fair! and its not fair that its not Fair! Thats fairly obvious Posted by: Where's Batman? at March 22, 2014 02:45 PM (9/iF+) I read this in my head with a huge, screechy, "WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" at the end of the demand sentence.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 10:47 AM (qFpRI)

Posted by: backhoe at March 22, 2014 10:47 AM (ULH4o)

198 The most negotiating power I ever had was in high school when I'd go to the Cape with my buddy in early May, before any summer kids got there, and look for our summer jobs. We were both veteran dishwashers and grocery clerks by 15, and we'd just pick a handful of places within walking/biking/short driving distance of our place out of the Classifieds and stop in to listen to their pitch. All but one year we chose a grocery store, we washed dishes during the "regular season", felt we deserved a break.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 10:48 AM (ZshNr)

199 "that she believes that she possesses some magically glowing aura"


Are we talking glowing vagina here? Because thats worth a look.

Posted by: Guido 'trigger happy' at March 22, 2014 10:48 AM (15qFH)

200 plus one of the kids, a boy, was having some learning/emotional issues. Brother/father wanted to help an mentor the boy but sister and her new partner would not allow it. Cause they, IMHO, were threatened by the fact he is a man, and the boy's father. Huge mess. Ended up telling the kids/cousins when they were teens that he was their dad

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 10:48 AM (zOTsN)

201 "that she believes that she possesses some magically glowing aura" Glowing or not, if there's one thing I know about women, she'll still blame you for leaving the seat up.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:49 AM (KgWKP)

202 Are we talking glowing vagina here? Because thats worth a look. Posted by: Guido 'trigger happy' at March 22, 2014 02:48 PM (15qFH) I'm not above witnessing that.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:49 AM (x3YFz)

203 and the best part? Both the sister and her new partner are therapists heal thyself

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 10:50 AM (zOTsN)

204 Glowing or not, if there's one thing I know about women, she'll still blame you for leaving the seat up.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 02:49 PM (KgWKP)


Pig.

Posted by: Some chick at March 22, 2014 10:50 AM (15qFH)

205 190 -

Maybe.  That  could be all it is, or it could be a little of both. 


It's just that my alarm bells go off when I see those two together:  maternity leave and Catholic/Christian university.  And she dances quite gingerly around the discussion of whether  there is even an issue of her getting pregnant.  Just that she wants maternity leave put in writing. 

So yeah, I remain suspicious of her motives. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:50 AM (BeSEI)

206 In my experience, therapists have the most fucked up kids of all.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 10:51 AM (KgWKP)

207 thunderb, that's awful.  the poor guy probably thought he was doing a nice, generous thing.  can't imagine the torment he must have felt watching it all go to shit.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 10:51 AM (8lmkt)

208 Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 02:48 PM (zOTsN) Oh, those poor kids! You can't tell me these kinds of situations don't cause emotional and mental trauma. I really wish people would think a little more of how their decisions might affect their children and a little less of, "But I want it!!"

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 10:51 AM (qFpRI)

209 "But I want it!!"
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks

But, they want it "for the children"!!

Posted by: Bruce at March 22, 2014 10:52 AM (igJW1)

210 quite a bit of that kind of thing going on these days and it really is a mess. probably the lawyers are the only ones who benefit. Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 02:44 PM (8lmkt) Gay activists in the 70s and early 80s would have had a fit. Gays, basically, mimicking heterosexuality.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:52 AM (xSegX)

211 188 171 --CJM--- Great comment. Well said. Nailed it. Ditto.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 22, 2014 10:53 AM (0FSuD)

212 Grey Fox ?There is nothing wrong everything right about knowing a trade- or several of them. Posted by: backhoe at March 22, 2014 02:47 PM (ULH4o) I can clean rifle, break a horse, fix a fence, find your satellite, write code... and all that's gotten me is a wife that nags me over not turning out the light in the bathroom. There's a point where you realize no one gives a crap.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 10:53 AM (x3YFz)

213 "I lost several internet "friends" pointing out that for an employer, a man is a better investment as a worker than a woman because of the reality of pregnancy." I disagree with you, in the recent climate, it is within the boundaries of the law that men (husbands or not) get to have paternity leave, even tho the girlfriend is at home and is perfectly able to take care of the child herself. My 32 year old boss did just that in a major American multinational. I was speechless. Secondly, since the majority of bloggers on AOS is entirely in the tank for ghey marriage and they are in favour of this can of worm opening, I guess that 'paternity' leave would be granted to both ghey fathers even tho the birth is from a surrogate they don't even know. Maybe also for an adopted child. I can totally foresee that in the future. The fact that an org is 'catholic' is absolutely meaningless, see the next lawsuit coming to a 'catholic' university near you. Once upon a time there was a huge difference between hiring a man or a woman, nowadays not so much thanks to our libtards on power (and their 'libertarian' enablers)

Posted by: fromabroad at March 22, 2014 10:53 AM (rnV3B)

214 its lesbiantown, jake

"Why Did You Take Away My Choice To Have A Father And Force Me Into This Bizarre Lifestyle? You Ruined My Life , "Moms" , And I'm Suing! "

Posted by: Maury Povich Jr. Show - 2032i] [/b] at March 22, 2014 10:55 AM (5ikDv)

215 203 In my experience, therapists have the most fucked up kids of all. Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 02:51 PM (KgWKP) So true. When I was in elementary school the only fucked up kid in the school was a psychologist son. His whole family was fucking weird. I went over there for lunch one weekend and was so freaked out I told my parents I was never going over there again. I was eleven and even then I knew nutty people when I saw them. Kid was sort of sad. He was basically a puppy dog they fed.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 22, 2014 10:56 AM (0FSuD)

216 The higher salaries in academia are engineering, medicine, law - yÂ’know, the disciplines where the school has to compete with non-academic salaries. It should be the case in math, too, but immigration mitigates against it. I was on a search committee this past year. None of the final four candidates were American. (By that, I mean got their undergrad degree from a US university. In fact, only one got his Ph.D. from a US university. And US public schools? Fuggetaboutit.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 10:56 AM (xSegX)

217 The Ultimate Guide for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Job Seekers. Why is such a book needed? Why is such a course needed? Just present your credentials. give the best interview you can and if hired do the best work you can be a person people like to be around. In other words. don't be grumpy PITA to your co-workers or take credit for things they have done? What does being "queer" have to do with your work skills anymore than being straight does? Good workers are both sexes, both genders and either sexual orientation. When I see this kind of book. all I can think is that's in intended to give pointers so that "queers" would have a better shot at a job than straight. How does that work unless you have a "queer" friend who wants to hire you. The other thing is it seems like it might be an invitation to sue the company for discrimination for no real reason but that you were gay.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 10:56 AM (XyM/Y)

218 Good workers are both sexes and either or any sexual orientation. It's the individual who matters.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 10:57 AM (XyM/Y)

219 They wanted to have a baby. They asked brother to donate sperm via turkey baster to impregnate sister's partner. They had two children that way. Brother's sperm used to impregnate sister's partner then they break up. sister gets a new partner. its a mess. and cousins are really half-siblings its lesbiantown, jake Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 02:41 PM (zOTsN) Why? Why do people do this shit? At no time did anyone say, 'Hey...that might be a REALLY BAD idea."

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at March 22, 2014 10:58 AM (bCEmE)

220 Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 02:37 PM (rusAS) *Slides up next to CJM* Hi there, can I hand you my card Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 02:43 PM (x3YFz) Meh, all paying my dues has gotten me is a pat on the back.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 10:58 AM (HDwDg)

221 Speaking of questionably "Catholic" universities, St. Louis U. announced their  new President yesterday.  First non-Jesuit in  the  school's history.

Just a preliminary impression of the guy:  he's got an Italian name.  He  looks black  (I am increasingly unable  to tell the difference anymore).  His wife looks like a man. 

He's got a background in sociology.  He's always worked at  Catholic universities. 

Yippee... you bastages are still not  getting a dime from me, when you send out  your glossy alumni mailings that go straight into the trash. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 10:59 AM (BeSEI)

222 209?
T9?

I can do some of that stuff, too. Jack of all trades, able to master what I had to.

I guess I've been lucky- both of my lost girls never bugged me or nagged me- they were nice women. And like frontier women could be hard as a diamond if circumstances required it.

Been a "Lucky Man...."
( Yes, ELP ref.... )

Posted by: backhoe at March 22, 2014 11:00 AM (ULH4o)

223 "The other thing is it seems like it might be an invitation to sue the company for discrimination for no real reason but that you were gay." Fenelon, I think you likely hit the nail on the head with that last sentence. Our society is way too litigious and the way were are convincing people that if they don't get what they want it must be because they're victims of some kind of oppression is appalling.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 11:00 AM (qFpRI)

224 OT: File this under taxpayer money well spent on ammo. Evidently, there's a reason no pics of Osama Bin Laden's body have surface. Every member of the assault team put a mag in the corpse. Probably about 300 rounds of either 9mm, .40, .223 or .308. Wasn't much left. heh.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:00 AM (x3YFz)

225 I coworker of mine once laughed when I stated that if I got a job offer, I wanted to start work at the new job the next day - **any** delay between the offer and actually starting work was a potential risk of having the offer rescinded.

Posted by: Whatever at March 22, 2014 11:00 AM (Hu/Da)

226 "Huge mess. " Wow. That is one seriously fucked up situation.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 11:01 AM (hFL/3)

227 Did the journal factor in potential bear attacks when hiring a woman? Cuz you'd be crazy not to.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 22, 2014 11:01 AM (slXFW)

228 and I see a potential candidate more interested in negotiating the time spent NOT doing her job: A sabbatical prior to tenure, a full semester of maternity leave, and a start date in 2015.-NDH Exactly. I would say the same if the applicant were a man

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 22, 2014 11:01 AM (HVff2)

229 I was once working at a place and a new hire was extremely inquisitive about health benefits, disability benefits and so forth. The employers ignored the red flags and hired her. On her SECOND DAY on the job she "got" Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from using the keyboard a couple times, and immediately claimed disability benefits and also sued for unsafe working conditions (i.e. conditions that force you to move hand muscles). Cost the employer tens of thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars. Moral of the story: NEVER HIRE ANYONE that makes suspicious demands or requests prior to getting the job.

Posted by: zombie at March 22, 2014 11:01 AM (mizYg)

230 The Balkanization of Murica continues apace.  Waiting for our differences to filter down to our eye color or finger nail length..... or whether we are right or left handed.... or ambidextrous.  It is ridiculous now, one can only imagine how much more ridiculous it will get.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at March 22, 2014 11:01 AM (jucos)

231 Nazareth College is a Deli?

Posted by: Hamm on 5, hold the Mayo at March 22, 2014 11:02 AM (yRkPK)

232 Posted by: Tami at March 22, 2014 02:58 PM (bCEmE) Not likely. Because common sense is apparently now indicative of one being a nasty bigot. We've got some serious societal problems.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at March 22, 2014 11:02 AM (qFpRI)

233 The father-daughter, three-legged race is going to look a lot different in the future.

Posted by: Company Picnic at March 22, 2014 11:02 AM (KgWKP)

234 221 -

Unfortunately it also feeds  into the "he's not really dead" nonsense. 


That's what you get when you send the Navy to  do the Army's job. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 11:03 AM (BeSEI)

235 NDH, you have to remember that a lawsuit for discrimination will pay more than even her demands would have.

Posted by: The Litigious Hat at March 22, 2014 11:03 AM (AymDN)

236 Posted by: Tami at March 22, 2014 02:01 PM (bCEmE) *** Lots of excuses for what is, as the university was spot-on in pointing out, not a "student centered" view of her job. Imagine that, a teacher being expected to think of the actual job at hand.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:03 AM (DmNpO)

237 Every member of the assault team put a mag in the corpse. Probably about 300 rounds of either 9mm, .40, .223 or .308.

Wasn't much left.

heh.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 03:00 PM (x3YFz)


haha!!

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:03 AM (8lmkt)

238 218--- Speaking of questionably "Catholic" universities, St. Louis U. announced their new President yesterday. First non-Jesuit in the school's history..... Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 02:59 PM (BeSEI) -------------------- Heh. I bet the guy's very....chic. (But I'm still rooting for them to beat Louisville today!)

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:04 AM (dfYL9)

239 Hey, I think he's still moving!

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:04 AM (ZshNr)

240 " The Ultimate Guide for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Job Seekers. Why is such a book needed?" where have you been for the past 10 years or so? I don't know about the usa but in the UK every employer has the right to ask you if you are a tranny, ghey or lesbian or every single possible combination. Then they draw statistics and see if they have hired the right quota of 'oppressed minorities'. Therefore such a book is actually not needed because just crossing the box 'ghey' (or muslim or Caribbean) would get you a job in some circumstances. HR is the only untouchable department of every company. I have witnessed this on every single company I worked for. They can be crap as they come but never judged since they can be a bitch to you and they usually get total power from the CEO directly. And guess where homosexuals work most? in HR.

Posted by: fromabroad at March 22, 2014 11:05 AM (rnV3B)

241 I secured a Vice President gig a couple years ago.  Both the employer and I were pretty psyched.  Got a call a week before I was to start the gig with the owner of company rescinding the offer.  I was floored.  Someone, somewhere in my past dealings must have slandered me pretty good.  I was pissed.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at March 22, 2014 11:06 AM (jucos)

242 But what the hell is a billiken?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:06 AM (dfYL9)

243 When I see this kind of book. all I can think is that's in intended to give pointers so that "queers" would have a better shot at a job than straight. Probably not. It is intended to reinforce the prejudices of the reader. I.e., that they will have such a difficult time in the job market because of all that nasty prejudice.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 22, 2014 11:07 AM (xSegX)

244 >>>Why? Why do people do this shit? At no time did anyone say, 'Hey...that might be a REALLY BAD idea."<<<

Preach it, sister.  What kind of man presents his semen to a lesbian couple in a plastic cup?  It's the real deal or nothing, toots.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 11:07 AM (PnMCP)

245 What kind of man presents his semen to a lesbian couple in a plastic cup? A gentleman?

Posted by: David Crosby at March 22, 2014 11:08 AM (KgWKP)

246 Moral of the story: NEVER HIRE ANYONE that makes suspicious demands or requests prior to getting the job.

Posted by: zombie at March 22, 2014 03:01 PM (mizYg)


So true, zombie!  Once, years ago, a receptionist was hired in my office.  She also threw some red flags and I warned the boss not to do it.  The supplies were in a cabinet above her desk.  She said she didn't like to "reach up."  She was always bitching about the temperature being too cold, even though she wore short skirts and no hose all winter.  Skip forward a few months, she's out on some kinda fraudulent disability.  One of our contractors, from about 30 miles away, mentions he has seen her going in and out of some do-gooder equal employment scamfest in his building, arms full of files and stuff.  I called the worker's comp people, who actually put an investigator on her and busted the bitch.  It felt pretty good when that happened!

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:08 AM (8lmkt)

247 Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 02:37 PM (rusAS) *** A very nice analysis.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:08 AM (DmNpO)

248 Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 02:59 PM (BeSEI) My faculty who met him say he'll likely be a good fit. I'm still unsure. Long long history in Jesuit Education. Fact is, few Jesuits want to be college presidents anymore so there was no choice but to hire someone from the laity. As for degree background, I don't expect people in hard sciences to go into administration, in fact I'd be worried if an engineer suddenly found a love for the bureaucracy, it probably means he can't cut it as a scientist.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:09 AM (HDwDg)

249 CJM nailed it

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 11:10 AM (zOTsN)

250 237 --- Affirmative action for gays or, even more ludicrously, bisexuals should be most amusing. There is no way you can prove or disprove an applicant's assertion of gayness.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:10 AM (dfYL9)

251 What kind of man presents his semen to a lesbian couple in a plastic cup? A gentleman? Posted by: David Crosby ----------------------- A drug-oriented, counter-culturist, minstrel.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:10 AM (aDwsi)

252 in fact I'd be worried if an engineer suddenly found a love for the bureaucracy, it probably means he can't cut it as a scientist. Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 03:09 PM (HDwDg) you nailed it. We in the Nerdery (tm) are often caught by office politics and bureaucracy with that "what just happened?" face. I have no time or tolerance for "As The Department Turns."

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:11 AM (x3YFz)

253 I'd be worried if an engineer suddenly found a love for the bureaucracy, it probably means he can't cut it as a scientist. Posted by: tsrblke ---------------- Or possibly worse, because he is a good engineer, he imagines that he will also be a good manager. The death of many high tech start-ups.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:13 AM (aDwsi)

254 Remember, pinkies out when handing over the semen cup.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 22, 2014 11:13 AM (slXFW)

255 Margarita, you would not deny that if a person pretends to be gay (especially the militant type - all the ones I met were regularly present in any local pride parade and related meetings and ghey think groups in the company), any employer would think twice before firing them. It is just enough they claim to be called 'faggot' by some colleagues and you are fucked.

Posted by: fromabroad at March 22, 2014 11:13 AM (rnV3B)

256 Or possibly worse, because he is a good engineer, he imagines that he will also be a good manager. The death of many high tech start-ups. Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 03:13 PM (aDwsi) mmm hmmm. Stick to what you know, kid. Stick to what you know.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:13 AM (x3YFz)

257 before "Don't ask, don't tell" you could get discharged from the military for being gay The military was always looking for doctors. They would pay for all your medical school Every year, there were always a few that revealed they were gay after they got through medical school but before they began their service commitment. See, that way, they got free medical school and never had to serve. Very tough to prove someone is not gay when they say they are. It was fraud, for the most of them

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 11:13 AM (zOTsN)

258 Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 03:13 PM (aDwsi) Eh I chose engineer at random. I could have said "chemist"

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:14 AM (HDwDg)

259 239 -

Not that I ever cared, but apparently the billiken was a popular type of doll, that had an oddly mystical quality to it.  The story goes, at the time when SLU had a coach who sorta resembled the doll, his team became the Billikens,  and the  name stuck.

Seems kinda dumb  to me, but like I said, I don't much  care.   I did my undergrad there.  I generally despise the place. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 11:14 AM (BeSEI)

260 >>>A gentleman?
Posted by: David Crosby<<<

Or $50K and a latte grande at Starbucks.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 11:14 AM (PnMCP)

261 Remember, pinkies out when handing over the semen cup I use a sterling silver gravy boat. Because, I'm classy like that.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:14 AM (KgWKP)

262 252 Margarita, you would not deny that if a person pretends to be gay (especially the militant type - all the ones I met were regularly present in any local pride parade and related meetings and ghey think groups in the company), any employer would think twice before firing them. It is just enough they claim to be called 'faggot' by some colleagues and you are fucked. Posted by: fromabroad at March 22, 2014 03:13 PM (rnV3B) /furiously taking notes so much work to do: have to memorize showtunes, pick out curtains /scribbles

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:15 AM (x3YFz)

263 I guess I could see a possible problem if a person is halfway through a sex change operation and is (still a) a male who wants to use the womens bathroom. Is that the kind of issues they're talking about. And if that was a problem wouldn't you discuss it after you were hired? Sorry I sound so clueless but I have never worked with people going through sex change operations

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:16 AM (XyM/Y)

264 Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 03:14 PM (BeSEI) Frankly even the school can't get it straight. I've heard everything from "Inuit figure" to "old comic character. Although I suppose those aren't mutually exclusive.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:16 AM (HDwDg)

265 I'm seeing an emerging market in freeze-dried gym socks.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:16 AM (KgWKP)

266 I secured a Vice President gig a couple years ago. Both the employer and I were pretty psyched. Got a call a week before I was to start the gig with the owner of company rescinding the offer. I was floored. Someone, somewhere in my past dealings must have slandered me pretty good. I was pissed. *** I have been out on disability for nearly two years due to acute and chronic heart failure. However, my heart has now stabilized and my doctor has cleared me for work. I had a couple of conversations with a company a few weeks ago following an application for an entry level job. They wanted, instead, for me to do a consulting/contractor gig. I told them it wasn't really what I was looking for. Two weeks later they called me back and said that the AVP in the department, my ex-BFF, would like to discuss it further. I agreed, and had a phone interview that afternoon. He and the HR department were thrilled and said that they would set up a time for me to come in later in the week and discuss it further and allow me to meet the programmer for the project. That was two weeks ago and I've heard nothing since. Being that I had heard nothing from them, I applied for a couple of entry level jobs a couple of days ago. The moment I hit the 'submit' button my status displayed "not selected". I have no freaking clue what happened, but I'm calling them on Monday to discuss it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:16 AM (DmNpO)

267 Distributing Semen, a Gentleman's Guide.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:17 AM (ZshNr)

268 252 --- Oh yes. I'd think twice before doing ANYTHING to send them to a lawyer. We really, really need to get the lawyers off our backs. Those fleas are eating the dog up.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:17 AM (dfYL9)

269 Never worked with them that I know of anyway.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:17 AM (XyM/Y)

270 245 -

I knew a guy who applied for the job when they hired Biondi.  I  won't say much more, other than that he's gay.  I don't  think that was held against him in the  process, but there's some Jesuit politics  I don't understand, and do not ever  WANT  to understand  that he  still feels quite bitter about,  all these years later. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 11:18 AM (BeSEI)

271 Maybe the original Billiken was somehow racist and has been "disappeared".

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:18 AM (ZshNr)

272 I have a PhD in Philosophy and can't find a job in my field, but at least I understand why.

Posted by: Ted at March 22, 2014 11:18 AM (DVYgh)

273 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 03:16 PM (DmNpO Monsanto has a "pre-screen" set of questions. I'm fairly certain that your status is largely determined once you fill that out, but the system waits a few days to send you a rejection just so it looks like it's not a computer making the calls. YMMV.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:19 AM (HDwDg)

274 264 Distributing Semen, a Gentleman's Guide. Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 03:17 PM (ZshNr) uh... it's covered (lol) in one paragraph in the Moron Handbook of I've Never Seen That Girl In My Life, page 23.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:19 AM (x3YFz)

275 It sounds quite frustrating, NDH. I will keep you in prayer that rough places are made smooth for you.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:19 AM (XyM/Y)

276 256 --- Thanks! Now the Billiken logo makes sense....well, more sense. It looks more like a funny human than an animal.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:20 AM (dfYL9)

277 Distributing Semen, a Gentleman's Guide. Tupper-Ware brand Semen Cups. The secret to freshness is in the Patented 'Burp'.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:20 AM (KgWKP)

278 It sounds quite frustrating, NDH. I will keep you in prayer that rough places are made smooth for you. *** Thank you.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:21 AM (DmNpO)

279 “Do you believe Crimea’s vernal equinox should remain in the multiverse, or do you support Ukraine’s acquisition of the Lululemon?”

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 11:21 AM (e8kgV)

280 Wasn't Dr. Amy Bishop a philosophy professor? She was some sort of professor.....

Posted by: whyme at March 22, 2014 11:21 AM (l9mF2)

281 Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 03:18 PM (BeSEI) He dodged a bullet . The university at that point was either going to grow gangbusters or collapse. Biondi probably would have gone down in history as one of the best presidents had he merely retired after 10 years as was the norm before that. (More or less.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:21 AM (HDwDg)

282 See, that way, they got free medical school and never had to serve. Very tough to prove someone is not gay when they say they are. It was fraud, for the most of them 

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 03:13 PM (zOTsN)


Hrm.   First "solution" that comes to mind.  

"You're gay ... ?"  

*ziiiiiiip*

"... Prove it"  

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 22, 2014 11:22 AM (M9BzG)

283 I assume that everyone recalls this: "Kansas man who donated sperm to lesbian couple being sued by state for child support " http://tinyurl.com/n46p9px

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:22 AM (aDwsi)

284 My doctoral degree is in electrical & computer engineering and I have close family members in academia in the fields of accounting, biology, and computer science.  With the exception of accounting,  there isn't a lot of room for negotiation unless you are a super star (i.e., can bring in the big grant bucks).  There aren't a whole lot of accounting PhDs so those positions sometimes take more time to fill (depending on location), but if the position is at a state school that limits negotiation, too.  I imagine potential philosophy professors (who don't have as many non-academic options as those other fields I mentioned) have even less room to negotiate.

Posted by: not the mama at March 22, 2014 11:24 AM (5dxeo)

285 See, that way, they got free medical school and never had to serve. Very tough to prove someone is not gay when they say they are. It was fraud, for the most of them ----------------- There were many, many cases like that. Gheyness was not always the dodge, there were other means, all dishonorable.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:24 AM (aDwsi)

286 That stupid Play Anything radio station is on again. I have to keep it there because it will eventually switch to college hoops. Right now listening to some song from junior high, cloying, annoying, what is it? Oh yeah, there it is. I Can't Fight This Feeling Anymore. Ugh, they gotta do better than that.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:24 AM (ZshNr)

287 I'll tell ya what's classy, adding a little cinnamon to your semen cup.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 22, 2014 11:25 AM (slXFW)

288 268 -

Maybe.  I think you could almost  see it as being  in the same neighborhood as a big fat smiling Buddha, and can you imagine a modern university having Big Fat Buddha as a mascot? 


Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 11:25 AM (BeSEI)

289 And then there's the story of the 3 children starved and chained by their lesbian mothers.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 11:25 AM (hFL/3)

290 I Can't Fight This Feeling Anymore. Ugh, they gotta do better than that. Dude. That's the Wagon. The REO SpeedWagon.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:26 AM (KgWKP)

291 269 I have a PhD in Philosophy and can't find a job in my field, but at least I understand why. Posted by: Ted at March 22, 2014 03:18 PM (DVYgh) ----------------------- Sheesh. You should have stopped at the BA. My undergraduate degree was in philosophy and I never lacked for jobs analyzing the metaphysical attributes of the common hamburger.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:26 AM (dfYL9)

292 No, Amy Bishop was a professor in the Sciences of some sort,

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:26 AM (XyM/Y)

293 Something about the counter offer struck a chord with someone on the committee (if there is one) that makes these judgments.

It seems odd that they respond to a counteroffer by a withdrawal of the entire offer.

I would think that if they did want this person, they would either deny in it's entirety or agree to some or some other similar benefit.

Maybe they were just fulfilling their obligation to find a female and now that they had shown their willingness but been over bid, they could proceed to offer it to a wider pool of applicants. (men)

Or they had other offers out and hers was the only over bid so she eliminated herself.

A for effort, F for overbid.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 11:26 AM (i+yr+)

294 Posted by: not the mama at March 22, 2014 03:24 PM (5dxeo) We're more or less being taught not to negotiate on anything that would affect the schools bottom line. If you want more money ask for a 9 month contract (at the same salary) and use that 3 months in the summer to pursue extra sources of work. If you're an empirical minded person maybe some bridge funding. The days of making demands on colleges is over, there are lots of people waiting to take spots people try to ask to much for.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:26 AM (HDwDg)

295 I'll tell ya what's classy, adding a little cinnamon to your semen cup. Freshly grated nutmeg.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:27 AM (KgWKP)

296 Yeah, once I heard the refrain, the original MTV video started playing in my head.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:27 AM (ZshNr)

297 Lincolntf - Pop this up in the background?: WWNC http://www.iheart.com/live/News-Radio-570-WWNC-1593/?autoplay=true

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:27 AM (aDwsi)

298 279 --- But wouldn't that be sexual harassment? You can't (legally) make someone perform a sexual act in order to get a job.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:28 AM (dfYL9)

299 But wouldn't that be sexual harassment? You can't (legally) make someone perform a sexual act in order to get a job. *** You can in the pron industry.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:29 AM (DmNpO)

300 Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 03:26 PM (dfYL9)

Or the existential angst of the French Fries as they're plunged into the fryer. (could you hear their tiny screams?)

And that onion over there's been giving me some strange looks.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 11:29 AM (i+yr+)

301 Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 03:25 PM (BeSEI) The small sitting statue they moved to the new arena pretty much is the Buddha. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 03:26 PM (i+yr+) Eh, I wonder if was more a "close choice" scenario, and being a teaching college, when she pretty much showed her hand of not wanting to teach they decided person #2 suddenly seemed better. Clearly the committee did not do due diligence during the interview though to determine if she had any interest in teaching a 4/4 schedule (which clearly she didn't)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:29 AM (HDwDg)

302 From the Obama minions at TPM: The Obama administration doesn't currently have a mechanism for accepting individual mandate payments ... ... what a bunch of incompetent cretins

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (e8kgV)

303 I believe Science says a little nutmeg results in only 8 toes.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (slXFW)

304 dang, Niedermeyer, I had no idea . . . all I can say is that you have always struck me as highly intelligent and totally fierce and somebody better get lucky and hire you.  prayers up, my friend.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (8lmkt)

305 Heh. Janie Johnson ‏@jjauthor Mar 13 They have found a small island where #Obamacare is a success! http://t.co/vETBQxdOJv

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (DmNpO)

306 >>>And then there's the story of the 3 children starved and chained by their lesbian mothers.<<<

That's some heartbreaking shit, right there.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (PnMCP)

307 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 03:26 PM (HDwDg)

Yeah, where I went to grad school there were very few summer courses in our department, and those were taught by the two teaching faculty on staff, so the 9 month was standard for tenure track faculty.  My dad (accounting at a state school) has 9 month as a standard, too, but he always seems to get roped into teaching summer sessions, but gets paid extra for them.

Posted by: not the mama at March 22, 2014 11:30 AM (5dxeo)

308 Thanks. I just tried and the PlayStore died on me. I'll try again in a minute. This tablet doesn't have all of it's faculties at the moment.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:31 AM (ZshNr)

309 Seems kinda dumb to me, but like I said, I don't much care. I did my undergrad there. I generally despise the place. Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 03:14 PM (BeSEI) Hubby did his undergrad there too. Graduated in '78....I think. :/

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at March 22, 2014 11:31 AM (bCEmE)

310 Niedermeyer, I had no idea . . . all I can say is that you have always struck me as highly intelligent and totally fierce and somebody better get lucky and hire you. prayers up, my friend. Posted by: Peaches ditto you are too smart.

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 11:31 AM (zOTsN)

311 Tampa and Pittsburgh have a good one going right now. 3-3 in the last minute of the 3rd.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:31 AM (KgWKP)

312 dang, Niedermeyer, I had no idea . . . all I can say is that you have always struck me as highly intelligent and totally fierce and somebody better get lucky and hire you. prayers up, my friend. *** Dang! I wish you were hiring! Thanks, and *blush*. I know God has a plan. I just have to keep looking.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (DmNpO)

313 Posted by: Tami at March 22, 2014 03:31 PM (bCEmE) Good freaking lord, a Moron horde meetup would apparently double a SLU Alumni meeting

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (HDwDg)

314 297 Or the existential angst of the French Fries as they're plunged into the fryer. Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 03:29 PM (i+yr+) -------------------- LOL!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (dfYL9)

315 And here's Hootie and the Blowfish. The first big song.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (ZshNr)

316 I'll tell ya what's classy, adding a little cinnamon to your semen cup. Freshly grated nutmeg. Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 03:27 PM (KgWKP) Is that what one would call a Fapachino?

Posted by: The High in Protein Hat at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (AymDN)

317 “Our First Lady is so graceful and elegant, leaving Michelle far behind,” said one critic. “We have won this time,” remarked another. “Ours is more refined and eye-catching,” said a third. There was praise for Mrs Peng’s belted trouser suit, with flashes of crimson at her neckline to match her red earrings and clutch, but some questioned whether her high heels were sensible enough for the cobbles of the Forbidden City. But without them, Mrs Obama would have towered over her. Mrs Obama won plaudits, however, for gamely embracing three of China ’s favourite hobbies: ping pong, calligraphy and geeky robot-building.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 11:32 AM (e8kgV)

318 295 279 --- But wouldn't that be sexual harassment? You can't (legally) make someone perform a sexual act in order to get a job.  Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 03:28 PM (dfYL9)


Well, the sexual act would be the termination of the job and commitment. 

It's more a humorous thought and less a realistic fix.   Not sure how many men out there want to get BJs from other men.   And the fact that some of those will be gay men ...

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 22, 2014 11:34 AM (M9BzG)

319 One of the genuinely Catholic schools that I think still exists is Francisian (sp) University of Stuebenville. It's a conservative RC school./

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:34 AM (XyM/Y)

320
Here are a couple of evil women:


http://tinyurl.com/ocjh4oo

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 22, 2014 11:34 AM (0Kobm)

321 And I can't fight this feeling anymore.

That you've been acting like a whore

It's time to blow this two bit town,

Before you start to get me down.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 11:34 AM (i+yr+)

322 Is that what one would call a Fapachino? Who ordered the Venti?

Posted by: Peter North - Barrista at March 22, 2014 11:35 AM (KgWKP)

323 Reading the comments there just stole over an hour of my life. What I think, though, is that W should have never ever suggested that if she got all the things on her list it would make her decision "easier"... which makes it sound like they could grant her every desire and she might still say "no". As for the sexism and maternity leave thing... that didn't seem to get much traction in the comments though a couple of people tried it. It's sort of funny... just a few weeks ago I went to a career "thing" in my department (I'm an undergraduate, and they had free pizza) that was all about getting your first job at a top tier research university. Negotiating after an offer was part of what they talked about, getting money for your "start up" or lab assistants or lab equipment... but that you had to make your case on why you needed any of it, but that getting as much as you could was important once they'd decided they wanted you there. (Last week a PhD going through the hiring process gave her presentation to one of my classes which a few students (who are in the 1 credit class) and nearly all the professors regularly attend. It was all about her amazing cross-discipline abilities to follow unique, new, and important research lines concerning ancient extinction events, and how able she was to find and secure her own funding when she needed three weeks of looking at Triassic sponge fossils in Peru. I found it fascinating.) At the career meeting they also mentioned teaching colleges and that this was a different sort of thing and that some people really preferred that environment and that you *might* be able to negotiate something like a really great computer. This in a STEM field... not Philosophy.

Posted by: Synova at March 22, 2014 11:35 AM (7/PU+)

324
These people default to victim hood.

(But "collegiality" is a bona fide occupational qualification only when it can be used to deny a conservative academic a job or tenure.)

Posted by: Hyman at March 22, 2014 11:35 AM (Xv7f/)

325 Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building" ?

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at March 22, 2014 11:35 AM (e8kgV)

326 Here are a couple of evil women: http://tinyurl.com/ocjh4oo Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 22, 2014 03:34 PM (0Kobm) I blame the Patriarchy™.

Posted by: Lesbian Feminist at March 22, 2014 11:35 AM (AymDN)

327 University of Dallas is pretty solidly Catholic, I believe.

Posted by: Lauren at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (hFL/3)

328 My questions after an offer, prior to employment: 1. What benefits are there? 2. What is the vacation policy? 3. When do you want me to show up. Everything else comes later.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (aDwsi)

329 I'm sure someone with her qualifications would have no trouble finding a top-flight job in either the food service or housekeeping industries.

Posted by: Michael at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (smKbx)

330 One of the genuinely Catholic schools that I think still exists is Francisian (sp) University of Stuebenville. It's a conservative RC school./ Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 03:34 PM (XyM/Y) I've always gotten a good vibe from Creighton when sis and the wife went there separate times.) Georgetown is the entire other end of that spectrum. They're itching to throw off what they see as the Yoke of Catholicism, they just don't' know how. If anyone pried to hard into it though I imagine it could be done for them .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (HDwDg)

331 Here are a couple of evil women: http://tinyurl.com/ocjh4oo Posted by: Guy Mohawk monsters absolute monsters

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (zOTsN)

332 When presenting semen to a lesbian couple, it is customary to slyly whisper "sure you don't want it the regular way?", however it is frowned upon to call out "Psych!" and pantomime doing a shot.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:36 AM (ZshNr)

333 Here are a couple of evil women:   http://tinyurl.com/ocjh4oo


One of the kids was a biological child.   Nasty indeed. 

But loving homosexual couples raising kids in a nurturing family environment!

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 22, 2014 11:37 AM (M9BzG)

334 Yes, Creighton is another one, I believe. I forgot that.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 11:38 AM (XyM/Y)

335 Posted by: Hyman at March 22, 2014 03:35 PM (Xv7f/) FWIW, this is one of the reasons I think I'd be better off in industry or politics. At least they are open about their intentions .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:39 AM (HDwDg)

336 Typical tenure track is six years.  Sabbatical is no less than a semester, often a whole academic year.  So, applied to this case, within her first six years of employment, this wiggler wanted a paid vacation of between 16 and 32 weeks.

Posted by: Roscoe at March 22, 2014 11:39 AM (Xv7f/)

337 Never pass up free food.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at March 22, 2014 11:40 AM (i+yr+)

338 316 One of the genuinely Catholic schools that I think still exists is Francisian (sp) University of Stuebenville. It's a conservative RC school./ Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 03:34 PM (XyM/Y) -------------------------- There are quite a few smaller ones like Christendom, Thomas Aquinas (in Ojai, CA), Thomas More (NH), etc. that are truly Catholic. Then there are the ones that, while not quite as faithful, are still deserving of being called "Catholic"--- places like Belmont Abbey or Catholic University.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:40 AM (dfYL9)

339 Damn, NHL Channel just had Sonic Youth playing for the post game bumper. Something off of Dirty.

Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 11:40 AM (KgWKP)

340

263...Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 03:16 PM (DmNpO) 

 

Well they'd be fortunate to have you, NDH.

Best of luck to you on finding something soon!

 

Employers are becoming more and more cautious these days.

They are being forced to, really.

 

A lot of places will start out offering 'Contract Work' initially...in order to get to know the applicant.

If that works out, then they offer a permanent position.

Posted by: wheatie at March 22, 2014 11:41 AM (2CHxD)

341 Posted by: Roscoe at March 22, 2014 03:39 PM (Xv7f/) Someone up thread said sabbatical before tenure isn't exactly rare. I wouldn't know. Given the roll of sabbatical though it might make sense for an institution concerned with publishing output, but as noted, Nazareth seems more concerned with teaching, so I can see why they'd balk at it. Frankly, if you take sabbatical before tenure review, you better produce something huge at the end, otherwise I think you just shot yourself in the foot.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:41 AM (HDwDg)

342 314 “Our First Lady is so graceful and elegant, leaving Michelle far behind,” said one critic. “We have won this time,” remarked another. “Ours is more refined and eye-catching,” said a third. I guarantee you Mooch can beat her in a wagyu eating contest.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 11:42 AM (mx5oN)

343 Holy Cross still has a core of Catholicism, but there are always Social Justice commandos making raids on their institutional integrity, including from within.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:42 AM (ZshNr)

344 317 -

If we lived in a  civilized society, which we don't, among other things,  these two would never see the light of day again, as long as they live, and the caseworkers, administrators, and everyone associated with the  agency that placed two  adopted children with these monsters would be sitting in  front of a congressional panel, asking pointed questions about  their  adoption practices and policies. 

Posted by: BurtTC at March 22, 2014 11:43 AM (BeSEI)

345 Know what that "pay your dues" thing gets me? Nada. I'm going to muscle up and tell you I'm the best physics teacher in the dept. But I'm life fucked because I have a masters in space operations and not a PhD. Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 02:43 First of all, we all have to pay dues at every level. Just because this W paid her grad school dues doesn't mean she deserves lifetime employment and security. You trade your labor for compensation. Once you cost more than your return, you are a bad decision. Academia is screwed up but the current system is you put in your value up front and then get more freedom and perqs as you stay. I just took on an administrative role, so some of my "dues clock" gets reset. But here's the thing: working hard and paying dues aren't always the same thing. It's not like you pay dues and then automatically someone comes over and says, "Wow, you made it! Now come sit at the big table." Any mentor in the field would have told you that if you wanted to be a professor then you need a PhD. So either you do that or you find a school that routinely accepts master's for faculty. You develop teaching materials and you make connections. You put yourself out there so that when an opportunity comes up they think of you first. As a TA I requested a specific professor and offered to do review sessions, make extra problem sets, etc. with the explicit understanding I wanted a kick-ass letter the next year. He was only too happy to do so. See, I knew I wanted to teach rather than be at a research school. Every one has been a TA, so I made a connection and offered to be a lecturer for one class at another school. A week before the semester began a professor died of a heart attack and they asked me to teach some of his classes (i.e., the limit for adjunct). When they searched for his replacement the ad said "PhD expected" but the chair pretty much told me to apply anyway *wink*. So I was a "visiting instructor" then, after my degree, a "visiting professor" before I got tenure-track. I was full-time and finished my PhD for two years and skipped post-doc. I used to say I got lucky. Once my mentor heard me say that and laid into me something good. He pointed out that I had been there because I wanted experience. None of the other grad students were there. He also stated out that put in the same situation maybe 5% of my peers would have had the hustle to capitalize on it. To be honest I'm working harder now than before tenure. Open source texts, classroom flipping, online labs - name it and I'm learning and working because I can see that is where the opportunity is going to be. I don't have to be perfect, just 2% better than the competition. The common thread above is that I focused on solving the other person's need, not mine. And each might not have paid off. So you say you've paid your dues but maybe you've paid the wrong party in the wrong currency.

Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 11:43 AM (rusAS)

346 317 Here are a couple of evil women: http://tinyurl.com/ocjh4oo Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 22, 2014 03:34 PM (0Kobm) Unpossible! Everyone knows teh gheys are more loving, caring, nurturing, and overall morally superior to us breeders.

Posted by: Insomniac at March 22, 2014 11:44 AM (mx5oN)

347 Do these idiots even consider the idea that they are going to, like gays, create a TREMENDOUS backlash that will not only (deservedly) hurt them, but that will hurt actually innocent gays and women that have NOT behaved like spoiled children?

Is that so far beyond them?  Or have they become emboldened by Obama's shameless grievance-mongering?

Posted by: acethepug at March 22, 2014 11:45 AM (KmWr2)

348 Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building" ?



It probably wasn't a robot.  I'm guessing the Chinese have just never seen a vibrator in that size.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:45 AM (8lmkt)

349 >>Good freaking lord, a Moron horde meetup would apparently double a SLU Alumni meeting I could bring another one with me...

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 22, 2014 11:45 AM (SUKHu)

350 Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building" ? It probably wasn't a robot. I'm guessing the Chinese have just never seen a vibrator in that size. Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 03:45 PM (8lmkt) Barack, on the other handÂ…

Posted by: Reggie Love, Robo-master at March 22, 2014 11:46 AM (AymDN)

351 We should be thankful that CA couple did not go Wournos.  Sounds like they were just a Skittle away.

I hope the kids get real help and placed with good caring families.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 11:46 AM (BL00c)

352 340 --- Kind of like Notre Dame maybe? A traditional Catholic will find the school tolerant and even congenial to his faith for the most part, but the leftists dominate.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:46 AM (dfYL9)

353 Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building" ? of course she married one

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 11:46 AM (zOTsN)

354 Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 03:43 PM (rusAS) I get frustrated when due paying is simply restricted. I went to my chair and said "I'd like to teach more." And go "No, we don't have enough spaces for that." But let's give other people 3-4 classes/semester. Including giving "Intro to Catholic Ethics" to a Baptist. Yeah. Not cool. And one wonders why I despair.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:48 AM (HDwDg)

355 Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building" ?
---
It probably wasn't a robot. I'm guessing the Chinese have just never seen a vibrator in that size.

Posted by: Peaches

So that is what Gaylord's ears are for...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 11:48 AM (BL00c)

356   Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 03:48 PM (HDwDg)


What's the (c) mean?   Small c catholic?  

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 22, 2014 11:48 AM (M9BzG)

357 I think University of San Diego is still pretty rigorously Catholic.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:49 AM (8lmkt)

358 Glory Days.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:49 AM (ZshNr)

359 342 ---"The common thread above is that I focused on solving the other person's need, not mine." --------------- As you say, that's no GUARANTEE of success --- nothing is --- but I'd say that's the winning ticket 90% of the time.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 22, 2014 11:50 AM (dfYL9)

360 I knew the median for new Profs going in- when negotiations started, I asked for a 10% bump over my current, which was right at (a little more) than the current median (of all hires) + moving expenses- the dean gave me that +1k$ in anticipation of likely salary freezes (in other words, I got slightly more than I asked for, just for not being a jerk/and as a show of good faith).I wonder if this woman had done any research regarding what the institution typically pays.

Posted by: Farmer Bob at March 22, 2014 11:51 AM (Ncfyq)

362 Yeah, probably close to ND, but so much smaller there is disparate impact both ways. One year the campus is awash in Wymyn's Outrage flyers, the next year it's plastered with Pro-Life rally announcements and study groups for Divinity School.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:52 AM (ZshNr)

363 So right, Ms. DeVille!  My problems are solved by the paycheck, the rest of it is making myself useful so they don't wonder why they're forking over that money.

Posted by: Peaches at March 22, 2014 11:52 AM (8lmkt)

364 Here's a photo of the asshole who shot Bruno, the Police Dog: http://goo.gl/5GxaWp Look at the tats on his neck, cheeks, eyelid, and scalp. What an ugly pos. Those look like tats of dicks on his neck.

Posted by: Get On Board The Pug Train! at March 22, 2014 11:54 AM (r7mtu)

365 98 NavyCopJoe, I think Tango Nine was volunteering for submarine duty or was that Shore Patrol? Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 02:06 PM (BL00c) mm hmm. When you two are done laughing, there's some ships need painted. chop chop.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:54 AM (x3YFz)

366 When you two are done laughing, there's some ships need painted. chop chop. ------------------ But first..., a little paint chipping.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 11:55 AM (aDwsi)

367 Well they'd befortunate to have you, NDH. Best of luck to you on finding something soon! Employers are becoming more and more cautious these days. They are being forced to, really. A lot of places will start out offering 'Contract Work' initially...in order to get to know the applicant. If that works out, then they offer a permanent position. *** thank you. I am definitely keeping an open mind because I'm sure my illness and my disability will be on the minds of future employers. I'm aiming low: entry-level, and hope to prove myself from there.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 11:55 AM (DmNpO)

368 Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 03:43 PM (rusAS) eeeeasy crusher. You're a little teeny bit on the competitive side, ain't ya?

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 11:56 AM (x3YFz)

369 McInerney is not letting go of his Pakistan theory Jim Hoft ‏@gatewaypundit BREAKING: Lt. Gen. McInerney Says #MH370 In Pakistan – “I Got A Source That Confirmed It Yesterday” (Video) http://shar.es/BnUOW

Posted by: Costanza Defense at March 22, 2014 11:57 AM (ZPrif)

370 Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 22, 2014 03:48 PM (M9BzG) PhD(Candidate) It means I've passed coursework and comps and am just a dissertation (mountain) away from PhD. In theory it should grant me abilities I didn't have before, like teaching (since I didn't have a Masters.) In practice it's just a reminder that I'm full of fail for not finishing yet, and unlikely to get a job.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 11:57 AM (HDwDg)

371 I will eventually lose my current, unique, gig and need something else to do. Not eager to get back into my pre 9/11 labors in the Annuity QA Dept. at the now defunct Allmerica Financial, nor do I think slinging concrete in the heat of NC is up my alley, so I've got "feelers out" and pretty much an entry level job guaranteed working with primates at Wake Forest/Baptist Hospital.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 22, 2014 11:59 AM (ZshNr)

372 hmmm, the thread is still going strong I see time to head to the gun show with the brat i'm looking for 5.56 or 2.23 on the cheap and/or a 5X magnifier for the red dot maybe a M1 if its a good price if I need help i'll ask here for prices

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 11:59 AM (bDxDx)

373 These requests of her employer lead me to believe that this woman is so far removed from the condition of the jobs market that she thinks she, alone, might fill their vacancy. It leads me to believe that she believes that she possesses some magically glowing aura that makes her simply irresistible to employers. Maybe she does posses "some magically glowing aura that makes her simply irresistible" to her...teachers. I am, have been, and always will be a fucking spectacular student. I am a joy to teach and grow. It really is exciting (apparently) to watch someone like me push her boundaries, working through a physics problem or grappling with philosophy and aesthetics in translating or sensitively explaining how Medicare is going to charge a 73 yr old, new widow, a late enrollment penalty for the rest of her fucking life. As an employee? I frankly, suck. Best of intentions and whatnot, I am in constant danger of being late to work and am, frequently. My bottom-line value to my current employer is asses in the seats (pardon the pun). And yet... They want to "develop" me. Go figure. It's a weird sort of charisma. I'm over 40 yrs old and yet I look like super good clay for molding into other's aspirations. It's not all bad but it is... weird. I took an exit when my thesis advisor got all hot and heavy about my pursuing a PhD in fucking Philosophy at his alma mater. Perhaps... if I had pursued such a course, and turned learning and teaching into a career, I might offer the same list of demands. Oh! Who am I fucking kidding?! Jayzus! How can people in this day and age NOT know how to accept a job offer? No, Dummy! Never put all your demands in full fucking print, on a list! TALK to the "whomever" is about to hire you about some concerns or issues that may come up that are high on your priority list and feel them out. Are they willing to work with you? Are they able to meet your hypothetical contingencies? Also, very important, are YOU able and willing to work with and for the organization when "shit gets real"? Don't, just don't EVAR make a ransom list of demands. You won't be heard. You will be laughed at. (Because Cornel West is such a fucking anomaly from the late '80's that he doesn't even COUNT as an exception to the rule.) If you work for them and work with them. If you contribute they will want you need you and hire you.

Posted by: Deety at March 22, 2014 12:00 PM (D8ONs)

374 369 - 2.23 Handloading those is a bitch. I have to use a magnifier.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 22, 2014 12:01 PM (aDwsi)

375 i'm looking for 5.56 or 2.23 on the cheap and/or a 5X magnifier for the red dot maybe a M1 if its a good price if I need help i'll ask here for prices Posted by: navycopjoe at March 22, 2014 03:59 PM (bDxDx) Go with Trij or Eotech. You know the drill.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 12:01 PM (x3YFz)

376 McInerney is not letting go of his Pakistan theory Jim Hoft þ@gatewaypundit BREAKING: Lt. Gen. McInerney Says #MH370 In Pakistan – “I Got A Source That Confirmed It Yesterday” (Video) http://shar.es/BnUOW Posted by: Costanza Defense I saw that. Gonna be the hero or the goat

Posted by: thunderb at March 22, 2014 12:02 PM (zOTsN)

377 >>>Who knew that Michelle was into "geeky robot-building"?
of course
she married one<<<

Rumor has it the firmware upgrade was a bust.

Posted by: Fritz at March 22, 2014 12:02 PM (PnMCP)

378 Deety, so true, and I'm loving the way you put it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 22, 2014 12:02 PM (DmNpO)

379 Posted by: Deety at March 22, 2014 04:00 PM (D8ONs) I absolutely love it when one of our beloved lurkers reaches boiling point. there, there.... get it all out.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 12:03 PM (x3YFz)

380 Nood! Home improvement thread.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 22, 2014 12:07 PM (HDwDg)

381 Nazareth College rescinded their offer because they were aware enough to spot a chronic problem child early. That list of of requests is ridiculous. Had her list started with higher salary and ended with maternity leave, she would likely still have a job offer, but the other three clearly show a person more concerned with maximizing her time away from the classroom than actually performing the job she was applying for. If a male had submitted a similar list of requests, the college's reaction would have been exactly the same. The only difference being that none of us would have heard about it.

Posted by: holygoat at March 22, 2014 12:10 PM (vAiDn)

382 Deety's not a lurker.

Posted by: buzzion at March 22, 2014 12:13 PM (o/Tlb)

383 CJM: I understand and disagree with you. I'm a weird critter. Somewhere along the line someone (probably a good NCO) imparted upon me the idea of Mission First. You. Last. So, in the teaching world, in my apparently addled mind that can't fathom office politics, this means: teach 'em little squirrels, and make sure they learnt it. I teach calc based physics, first two years. And those that survive recruit training (I just said 'recruit training' didn't I? /shrug) will bury any student not taught by me. Why? because I'm teh awesome. (ok, I may have overreached, but I look great in a tux) Pretty good at what i do. And the barely english-speaking nitwit transplanted from some crap place in the 3d world gets first jump at picking courses over me because 1) he has a PhD and 2) his research supports climate change. And this is why kids are stupid. The end.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 12:13 PM (x3YFz)

384 380 Deety's not a lurker. Posted by: buzzion at March 22, 2014 04:13 PM (o/Tlb) I rescind my lurker comment.

Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 12:15 PM (x3YFz)

385 371?
Mike?
Google "machinist suppliers"- they all have good magnification devices.

Posted by: backhoe at March 22, 2014 12:17 PM (ULH4o)

386 Glowing or not, if there's one thing I know about women, she'll still blame you for leaving the seat up. Posted by: garrett at March 22, 2014 02:49 PM (KgWKP) Pig. Posted by: Some chick at March 22, 2014 02:50 PM (15qFH) Learn to look before sitting on the toilet, jackass.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2014 12:34 PM (c2oll)

387 Job application form -

"Why do you want to work for X?"

Should I answer "I need a job?"

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 22, 2014 12:34 PM (BL00c)

388 <i>How far is too far in negotiating in the current job market?</i>

Quick example for myself. I was out of work for most of 2013. Finally had an interview with one company that led to a solid job offer. The salary was fairly low. I made my counter offer and pointed out that the last contingent offer I had with the same company on another contract was higher than what they were offering.

They bumped things up again and I took it, even though it was still lower than the contingent offer.

Posted by: NR Pax at March 22, 2014 12:39 PM (ODsL5)

389 Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 04:13 PM (x3YFz) Yep, but as much as it sucks, someone decided that "number of phds per student" matters. Such is life.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (tablet) at March 22, 2014 12:49 PM (HDwDg)

390 I'm in the middle of negotiating for a new job right now. When asked what kind of a base salary I was looking for, I gave them a range based on researching what salaries the company paid similar positions in my area. Also, most employers have basic benefits listed on their websites, so I didn't have to ask about PTO or any of the other goodies. I did mention that due to my experience I certainly hoped to be at the top of that range. It's salary plus commission, at least a 50/50 split, so I can sell myself my own raises.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at March 22, 2014 12:51 PM (ojnk6)

391 Good workers are both sexes and either or any sexual orientation. It's the individual who matters. Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 22, 2014 02:57 PM (XyM/Y) Not the grievance industry.

Posted by: Jen at March 22, 2014 01:20 PM (mynOu)

392 eeeasy crusher. You're a little teeny bit on the competitive side, ain't ya? Posted by: tangonine at March 22, 2014 03:56 PM Yes. Yes I am. The year I graduated there were ten nuke PhDs for each likely opening that specified that specialty (as opposed to just "physics"). Of the group that I ran with in grad school (about 10) I'm the only one that both finished the PhD and got a faculty job. Of all higher ed faculty in the US, only about 40% are tenured/TT. Like in any organization, the higher you go the fewer slots there are. The system is competitive so I had to be if I wanted to improve my chances. That competitiveness is normal around here. I have a 66 yo colleague who makes me look like a slacker. The thing that stands out to me in your comments is this: if I ask any random person what qualifications you need to be a professor most would say a PhD. Almost necessary but not sufficient. So you've handicapped yourself. You can teach calc-based. Those PhDs can teach calc-based, solid state, materials science, optics, astronomy, etc. My first two years I taught multivariable calc twice. And teaching is only one of three categories faculty are evaluated on. From a utilitarian standpoint you make a great adjunct. You talk like those PhDs had it easy, that it didn't take four to six years of hard work, and that it added nothing to their value. It's like you're saying you learned how to shoot from your dad so you shouldn't have to go to basic training. There's more to the job and while it may make some things easier your life experience won't get you a total pass. The game is definitely rigged. However, you can do things to improve your chances. The chances of reward may not be worth the risk. But if you ignore the intel you have don't be surprised if your odds of succeeding get worse.

Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 01:27 PM (rusAS)

393 Her failure was to negotiate via email. Dumb dumb dumb. You have zero control over the way the message is received, and no way to know how the negotiation is going and whether you should press on for point 4 or just stand pat. That said, you should always negotiate. It's tricky, but generally they employer is going to have a little wiggle room over their initial offer. Going 20% over seems high, but then she didn't expect to land on that number. If you don't go higher than where you think you'll end up, you'll end up short of your actual value in the marketplace, at least in your own mind. It can't be a crushing, winner-take-all negotiation--you're going to need a good relationship with your employer. But I've always had a lot better luck negotiating up front, and having a number of requests, than trying to negotiate a raise once already employed. Make cracks about what sort of employee I must be, but that's the pattern in my experience.

Posted by: TexasDan at March 22, 2014 01:42 PM (Fa3Hi)

394 @TexasDan I generally agree. I think with a different approach she might have gotten one of the requests, but asking for all at once in an e-mail almost guarantees failure. And keep in mind from the college's POV the salary request costs the most.

Posted by: CJM at March 22, 2014 01:46 PM (rusAS)

395 I'm a new academic myself (business, after 20+ years in industry), but I was flabbergasted when I first started hearing "junior sabbatical." I'm not entirely sure I plan to take a sabbatical _after_ tenure, unless I decide I need to write a book or do a research project that has a high six-figure grant attached to it or something. At a teaching institution (which is most colleges), you need to plan to be in the classroom.

Posted by: A message at March 22, 2014 03:16 PM (fFh95)

396 Not to go all Ayn Rand on poor W's ass, but if I were hiring a philosopher, I'd probably look askance at a PhD who has never heard of Aristotle.

Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at March 22, 2014 03:33 PM (a5ljo)

397 Not to go all Ayn Rand on poor W's ass, but if I were hiring a philosopher, I'd probably look askance at a PhD who has never heard of Aristotle. Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at March 22, 2014 07:33 PM (a5ljo) Heh.

Posted by: Deety the Lurker at March 22, 2014 08:51 PM (D8ONs)

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