January 07, 2014
— Ace Via @theh2, a truly terrible crime. And that crime is premeditated murder.
VidalÂ’s Father contacted the Boiling Springs Lakes Police Department around 1 pm Sunday to try to get help putting Vidal in the car, so he could be taken to a mental evaluation. Vidal was abrasive and did not want to go. and picked up a small electronics screwdriver.Two Officers responded to the scene and started negotiating with Vidal. After about 10 mins the situation started defusing itself with Vidal becoming more rational. At that very moment an Officer From another Town Entered the residence and instructed the officers to stop talking and tase Vidal.
As Vidal tried to flee into the bathroom adjacent to where he was standing the two officers simultaneously shot him with their tasers. As Vidal Collapsed backwards on to the floor the two officers jumped on top of the 5ft 3 100 lb Vidal to restrain him.
As Vidal’s Father tried to step in and grab the screw driver The Southport Police Officer that had instructed the other officers to use their tasers, moved between the father and the pile of people on the floor and said ” We don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal once in the chest as the other two Officers held him on the floor. Vidal’s father then grabbed the officer as he was lining himself up for another shot.
A small electronics screwdriver -- hardly bigger than an eyeglass screwdriver.
Posted by: Ace at
08:00 AM
| Comments (471)
Post contains 298 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:01 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: uwotm8 at January 07, 2014 08:01 AM (AaBOV)
Posted by: wg at January 07, 2014 08:02 AM (A/slq)
//Boiling Springs PD
I am wondering if the reason we need gun control is that only highly competent cops of near Demigod like restraint like cops should have the power of life and death?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:04 AM (TE35l)
Entirely believable.
A couple of weeks ago I sidebar'd a story about how there's been a recent spate of handcuffed suspects somehow managing to shoot themselves in the head.
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at January 07, 2014 08:04 AM (/8Opk)
Posted by: Carol at January 07, 2014 08:04 AM (z4WKX)
Posted by: joncelli at January 07, 2014 08:05 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 08:05 AM (Qev5V)
Know how hard it is to restrain a 100lb person? About as much effort as it takes to eat a doughnut.
2d degree murder conviction and a whole lot of dick sucking in that cop's future.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:05 AM (x3YFz)
anyway I suspect most police find this action as despicable as the rest of us.
Posted by: willow at January 07, 2014 08:05 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: X at January 07, 2014 08:06 AM (KHo8t)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 08:06 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 08:06 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 07, 2014 08:06 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:06 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (IlZPo)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (bCEmE)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: X at January 07, 2014 12:06 PM (KHo8t)
Not saying it's justified, just wondering if it's more complicated than this. It's just hard to believe as related here.
Posted by: joncelli at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (RD7QR)
(theory)
The cop was allowed to use lethal force because the child(by Obama's definition) had a 3 inch piece of metal on base....
(fact) The cop will get a lighter sentence because the machine takes care of its own even if defective.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: wizardpc at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (hWJMZ)
If true about the circumstances, then the policemen will pay the price.
BA HA HA!! Oh, lord, that's comedy gold!
First, the blue line will do their best to scrub the story. Then the cop will get blue flu and be "allowed" to "retire" with a full fucking pension.
Welcome to Mexico.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 08:07 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: garrett at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (IorFp)
Posted by: willow at January 07, 2014 12:05 PM (nqBYe)
I have not very many good close friends (whoda thunk?), but 2 of those I do have are a retired NYPD Detective and a crusty old deputy sheriff.
Believe me, there's a special, laser-focused, hatred for this sort of thing.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (x3YFz)
"We don't have time for this".
---
We don't have time for this? Are you f'in kidding me? You got something better to do? Writing speeding tickets perhaps? Rounding up registered guns?
I'll be restrained right now as we don't have the whole story yet, but if it is as bad as it looks, than anything less than jail time for that officer is completely unacceptable.
Posted by: Darth Randall at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (Zswg6)
Posted by: Lauren at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: toby928© at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:08 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:09 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:09 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: ontherocks at January 07, 2014 08:09 AM (iVvpZ)
Posted by: CAC at January 07, 2014 08:09 AM (WA31W)
Posted by: joncelli at January 07, 2014 08:10 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 07, 2014 08:10 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: wizardpc at January 07, 2014 08:10 AM (hWJMZ)
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at January 07, 2014 08:10 AM (YYJjz)
Posted by: nerdygirl at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (rNHiK)
Dorner was a cop, and according to that prof a hero fighting slavers...
I am slowly coming to the POV that the Cops are just the Government's commissioned gang.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (4df7R)
I have not very many good close friends (whoda thunk?), but 2 of those I do have are a retired NYPD Detective and a crusty old deputy sheriff.
Believe me, there's a special, laser-focused, hatred for this sort of thing.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 12:08 PM (x3YFz)
Among the old school, maybe. With the current crop of wannabe Judge Dredds? Not so much, methinks.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (bCEmE)
Posted by: X at January 07, 2014 08:11 AM (KHo8t)
Posted by: boniface ballers at January 07, 2014 08:12 AM (l3RZ9)
Posted by: Y-not at January 07, 2014 08:12 AM (zDsvJ)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 07, 2014 08:12 AM (t3UFN)
Posted by: CAC at January 07, 2014 08:12 AM (WA31W)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:12 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (P6QsQ)
1. A cop just shooting someone to save time? Imagine the paperwork and hassle involved with an officer-involved shooting. (I'm not a cop, so I'm speculating, but it's got to be a hell of a lot more time than just spending another ten minutes on the guy).
2. If the father lunged at the shooter to stop a second shot, he'd be dead, too. That cop, if the first part of the story is true, sure as hell wouldn't have worried about offing the dad who appeared to be going for his gun.
So there must be more to this.
Posted by: Guy in Texas at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (AcmH4)
No it won't and that is why I brought up "civilian", "gun control" and "self-defense"
That cop was totes justified zapping a 100 pound kid who was restrained, G Zimmerman is evil for making the same judgement call after Trayvon Martin straddled him and was trying to get the gun to kill him.
"Race War"?
You're soaking in it.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (t3UFN)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (BZAd3)
Eight more years on his parents insurance plan.
Posted by: huerfano at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (bAGA/)
Posted by: Sphynx at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 07, 2014 08:13 AM (bCEmE)
But perhaps this really is IT and everyone there should be served a cup of justice .
Posted by: willow at January 07, 2014 08:14 AM (nqBYe)
Was the shooter a ranking officer? Why did the others let him take charge?
Also, with two officers on top of the kid he decided to shoot? After declaring TIME to be the reason?
100 bucks says the shooter denies the quote, and claims he saw something the others didn't, like the kid was about to stab with the screwdriver.
Posted by: bonhomme at January 07, 2014 08:14 AM (RXV6T)
Posted by: Blacksheep at January 07, 2014 08:14 AM (8/DeP)
That's very true mom rushed cops with a hatchet once, and got Pr-24d...
I thanked the cop, b/c "alive"...
There are a lot of cops who should be in other lines of work.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:14 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Logicus at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (SMMTs)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: Ernie McCracken at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (lyb6p)
Posted by: Willisun James at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (Nvd6O)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: 7 Days in May at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (j6DTo)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: blaster at January 07, 2014 08:15 AM (W6bkf)
Posted by: deadman at January 07, 2014 08:16 AM (bNnI1)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:16 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:16 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 08:16 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: awkward davies at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (WK8VM)
So they were trying to get the young man into the car to go to a mental health evaluation. I would suspect that the mental health evaluators would understand if they received a call from the family saying that their schizophrenic son was having an episode and they couldn't get him in the car, and could they please reschedule. I'm not trying to blame the family for this, not at all; I'm sure they're heartbroken enough and blaming themselves as it is. But there HAD to be something else that could be done besides calling the police.
This reminds me of that elderly gentleman who wouldn't take his medicine, and the nursing home called the police. He ended up dead, too.
The police are not nurses. The police are not caregivers. That is not their job.
But the police are also not supposed to be cold-blooded killers.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (4df7R)
Oh, my. This sounds like murder in the 1st degree. This cop deserves the needle/chair/firingsquad/life without parole (for non-death sentence states). What a piece of human garbage.
Posted by: eureka! at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (xiXna)
Ideally it's something that is
1) easy to aim with a high hit %
2) immediately subdues the target
3) causes no long term damage
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 12:13 PM (ZPrif)
As an old Green Beret told me once: "Your best weapon is between your ears. The best method of employing that weapon starts with kindness."
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 07, 2014 08:17 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Hypoallergorical at January 07, 2014 08:18 AM (R6JT1)
It wouldn't help in this case, but I think EVERY cop car should have a running camera with audio on it, and as technology improves, on their person. My guess is you'd get a MUCH more professional police force.
Posted by: McAdams at January 07, 2014 08:18 AM (BVnAx)
The object of "To Protect and Serve" used to be the citizens. The first objective now is to protect themselves. At the expense of citizens.
It seems subtle but actually a huge change in perspective.
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at January 07, 2014 08:18 AM (EGPJQ)
Look at what the Park Police did during the shutdown.
And remember, too (can't be arsed to look it up right now), that some of them were sent to a river to order - at gunpoint, if need be - tourists out of their boats. I have no doubt if a family had said, "fuck you, Fife, we're staying," one of those SA bastards would have opened fire.
This shit needs to be stamped out now, or pitchforks and torches will be the least problem of any servant of the State.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 08:18 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Mega at January 07, 2014 08:18 AM (hHFOx)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 07, 2014 08:19 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:19 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:19 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: Y-not at January 07, 2014 08:19 AM (zDsvJ)
Posted by: Logicus at January 07, 2014 08:19 AM (SMMTs)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (4df7R)
Maybe, of course fieldcraft in your utility belt is supposed to prevent this.
89 Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 12:17 PM (LSJmV)
The KOS(tards) operate under the illusion the cops are disproportionally their enemy...
those same cops rousted the Tea Party and let the occutard wall streeters riot...
you do the math
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (TE35l)
- from StarNews Online, Wilmington NC
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (P6QsQ)
handgun(s)
knife
Medkit
And there's some days when I forget to bring all of the above, but I then remember "oh yeah, I still have my brain." And I'm good.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (Qev5V)
And I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the modern Police State, here.
This is where I'm at.
I'm not buying this.
Posted by: eleven at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (KXm42)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Have a Querulous New Year from the Outrage Outlet at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Meremortal at January 07, 2014 08:20 AM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Roadrunner at January 07, 2014 08:21 AM (Y0Z+z)
Posted by: Roy at January 07, 2014 08:21 AM (VndSC)
who went on to join the Marines. His bench was something like 150lbs when we were in Jr. High (half-again your body weight ain't bad).
Also- an "electronics screwdriver" will tend to be long-ish (to reach inside computer cases and the like) and very thin (because the screws it drives tend to have small heads). This makes it an excellent poniard- AKA "a deadly weapon."
Again- I'm NOT saying the cops are innocent here. What I AM saying is we don't have all the facts, and the facts we do have are incredible.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:21 AM (PYAXX)
Wait a sec Y-not a few things...
1) the 18 year old was impaired
2) what is "child" now? 12, 18, 21, 26 depending on the situation....
A mentally ill "young adult" got a 9mm or .40 pain reliever as a parting gift on a disruptive(and not disorderly in public) domestic and took some shortcuts...
When do we get to play the same game if ever?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:22 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:22 AM (T0NGe)
I said yesterday that if another cop shot someone that was held down by two other officers he had to be a great shot and that If I were the other cops, I would have beat his ass for firing his weapon in my direction.
Second, the complaints and insistence now by the family that the boy was not a danger or anything is contradicted by the mere fact that they called the police.
Thirdly, no matter what the actual facts are, this is obviously a bad shooting and that cop should be punished appropriately.
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 08:22 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:22 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (l3vZN)
Posted by: CAC at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (WA31W)
At 12:45, a Brunswick County Sheriff's Office deputy arrived on the scene. The family also said the deputy was effective.
"She was great with him," Mark Wilsey said. "She talked to him. Everything was fine. There was no escalation, nobody threatened everybody, Keith didn't show a screwdriver, threaten anybody with a screwdriver."
According to a statement by Owens, Vidal was "becoming more rational" at this point.
At 12:48:41, a Southport officer arrived on scene.
Exactly 70 seconds later, 911 records show, a Brunswick County EMS unit that was standing by advised shots had been fired.
-- StarNews Online, Wilmington NC
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Roadrunner at January 07, 2014 12:21 PM (Y0Z+z)
Unless you are a police officer, I'd stow that. Overgeneralizations are the mental sandbox of the lazy.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:23 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 08:24 AM (Qev5V)
This is a byproduct of cops trying to be TV stars.
1) the cop fucked up and pulled the pistol not the taser
2) the cop snapped
3) the cop was a sociopath who made a judgement call in lucidity
I am not thrilled with any of those but 1 is a far different matter than 2 or 3
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:24 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Barky McFuckstick at January 07, 2014 08:24 AM (FcR7P)
How dangerous is it for two cops to hold him down while the other cop shoots him? I call bullshit. Seriously, does every one sided bad cop story have to be taken without any skepticism b morons?
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 12:20 PM (Qev5V)
Personal experience has tempered my skepticism.
Posted by: Sphynx at January 07, 2014 08:24 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:25 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 08:26 AM (ZPrif)
If true about the circumstances, then the policemen will pay the price.
Still working and getting paiiiid. Boo-yah!
Posted by: The Gun Crazed LA Cops that Blasted a Pair of Mexican Grandmothers Because They Kinda Sorta Looked Like Charles Dorner.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 07, 2014 08:26 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:26 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:26 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:26 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (09o/X)
Posted by: ontherocks at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (iVvpZ)
Posted by: 29Victor at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (ES9R7)
"The wheels of justice sometimes grind slowly," David said. "We're only 24 hours in at this point, we don't have all the information and what information I have I cannot share at this juncture."
At least six SBI agents were at the scene Sunday conducting interviews and gathering evidence, David added.
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (P6QsQ)
I find it impossible to believe that the cop's simple need to gorge on a donut or go home and pork his overweight shrew of a wife would completely overcome all reason and cause him to execute a kid.
Posted by: Sharkman at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (TM1p8)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Fritz at January 07, 2014 08:27 AM (UzPAd)
it's pretty funny that the people demanding deference as in the past to the thin blue line are forgetting the disparate treatment the tea party and occutards get...
sorry the thin blue has been burning trust for 13 years.... longer if you add in WACO
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:28 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 08:28 AM (ZPrif)
"The responding officer for his department was Officer John Thomas."
Am I too old? Is that not slang anymore?
Posted by: Loki at January 07, 2014 08:28 AM (zhA8X)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:28 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 12:24 PM (Qev5V)
Its obvious that the victim was not armed and would become armed at the time he was shot. Its very obvious that deadly force would not be required in this situation. What scenario based on the most liberal facts available would you say that any shooting would be justified?
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 08:28 AM (m2CN7)
However, having run out of other options, you shouldn't *have* to assume that the cops are going to shoot your kid.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 12:09 PM (PYAXX)
It's looking more and more like you do have to make that assumption.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:29 AM (DrWcr)
We need a law against assault screwdrivers.
Posted by: Piers Morgan at January 07, 2014 08:29 AM (EGPJQ)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 12:27 PM (MMC8r)
I'm 180. I was tazed once as a part of a class. Only thing I was holding onto was my dignity.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:29 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at January 07, 2014 12:28 PM (ZPrif)
----------------
Not true. Personal experience.
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:29 AM (P6QsQ)
Am I too old? Is that not slang anymore?
Posted by: Loki at January 07, 2014 12:28 PM (zhA8X)
And his partner, Officer Throckmorton.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: soothie at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (KrfRJ)
Obviously there's two sides of the story, but I don't think it's out of line to jump to some conclusions, especially when there's a dead boy. One adult could have easily restrained him.
Unless the story was missing "and the boy had a gun" they should be hanging from a noose.
Posted by: McAdams at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (BVnAx)
------------------------------------------------------------
A vicious cycle. The good ones start quitting and the standards will have to nosedive just to fill the ranks. There will be more incidents like this.
Posted by: irright at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (8GKDa)
as has "trust the PD always"...
like was mentioned above...
"still on duty and now with added time in service..."
//LAPD Shooting Gallery PD
Because that pup truck of a totes different make and model and color looked JUST like dorner
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (TE35l)
You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know we are missing key information. I'm not talking about information that exonerates anyone, but there is definitely key information missing.
Posted by: Mega at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (hHFOx)
Posted by: wte9 at January 07, 2014 08:30 AM (2BJaL)
I hate to even approach the whiff of the mouth-breathing Left and/or Alex Jones, but I believe the problem originates with the PATRIOT Act. Local LE agencies have been getting a ton of federal money and "training."
And he who pays the piper calls the tune.
LEOs answer to the feds, now. Just look at Domestic Violence policies since Joe Fucking Biden's Violence Against Women Act -- the feds PAY local PDs to adopt policies to arrest men on the spot, no exceptions.
It's the same thing with schools and NCLB -- the undeclared nationalization of yet another area of formerly-local purview.
Posted by: Phinn at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (KOGmz)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (PYAXX)
they were closing down the outdoors! Who the FUCK does that?
That still pisses me off to no end. Fucking fascist bastards.
As a lover of all things outdoors, that offended me beyond any of the Regime's other abuses.
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 07, 2014 12:23 PM (7ObY1)
And where were our fucking "fearless leaders?" With few honorable exceptions, they were all lubing each others' asses to make it easier for Barky to shove his talking points up their asses. The GOP needs to die.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Roadrunner at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (Y0Z+z)
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 07, 2014 08:31 AM (VtjlW)
I really really want to believe the cops will be found justified in shooting this person. This is one incident that I think we need to sit down and wait for the rest of the story. There's got to be more to this.
If not, then we've just entered brand new territory in LE.
Posted by: Soona at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (PNGtR)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: Havedash at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (SIR+t)
Maybe, frankly it just means I need to get further into the badlands IMHO
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (xJS2Q)
Posted by: Scott M at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (AdBfq)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: Mega at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (hHFOx)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 08:32 AM (Qev5V)
Posted by: votermom at January 07, 2014 08:33 AM (GSIDW)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:33 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:33 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at January 07, 2014 08:33 AM (t3UFN)
Air Cav use of IEDs in Philly......
I mean seriously LE got back its trust in the late 70s-mid 80s...and has gotten self-indulgent IMHO and engaging in partisan winnowing of the use of its powers.
Sorry LE my insta-deferrment is about gone.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Havedash at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (SIR+t)
2. If the father lunged at the shooter to stop a second shot, he'd be dead, too. That cop, if the first part of the story is true, sure as hell wouldn't have worried about offing the dad who appeared to be going for his gun.
So there must be more to this.
Posted by: Guy in Texas at January 07, 2014 12:13 PM (AcmH4)
Yes. Those, couple with the report that the two cops already on site instantly complied with "orders" from a cop from another jurisdiction, just doesn't ring true, somehow. We clearly aren't getting the whole story, but I don't see any way that this could be deemed to be a "good shoot."
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (8Fl6F)
Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (BqbUI)
Posted by: Soona at January 07, 2014 12:32 PM (PNGtR)
can you think of a scenario where the discharge of the weapon would be necessary? The best case scenario is that it was accidentally discharged.
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (m2CN7)
At 12:48:41, Bryon Vassey, a nine-year veteran of the Southport Police Department, arrived on scene.
Exactly 70 seconds later, 911 records show, a Brunswick County EMS unit that was standing by advised shots had been fired.
"See, I wasn't there long enough for it to be premeditated."
"Involuntary manslaughter, sentence suspended. Right, now, on with the pixie hats! And order in the skating vicar."
"Anything goes in. Anything goes out..."
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 12:31 PM (lZBBB)
When I got tazed, I'd failed to hit the head prior.
With predictable results.
I'm not a big guy, but try to stay in decent shape. The only worse experience I've ever had is running through 200 yards of CS grenades. Different critter though, but as unpleasant goes, tazed ranks right up there.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:34 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Havedash at January 07, 2014 12:32 PM (SIR+t)
There was a short-lived reality TV show about police academy recruits. I think it was for either LAPD or LA County. These people, with one or two minor exceptions, couldn't find their ass with a map, GPS device and a department store three-way mirror. It was one of the saddest and most frightening things I'd seen in a while.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:35 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: shredded chi, a little happier than last year at January 07, 2014 08:35 AM (de32k)
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:35 AM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 07, 2014 12:31 PM (VtjlW)
*stuffs Karl Urban in a snuggie through USB port*
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:35 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:35 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: Daybrother at January 07, 2014 08:36 AM (u7Jhb)
Why do you think they fear cellphone cameras and those GoPro devices? You see 'attitude and privilege', not 'to serve and protect'.
After the investigation comes back, resulting in 'justified shooting to protect an officer's life', we can all get back to the happy times, citizens /sarc
Tar\Feathers, along with public humuliazation is far too kind for these shenanigans... As a former LEO, seeing the wave of militancy entering law enforcement, and the trumpeting of SWAT, the writing was on the wall to leave.
Posted by: fred zeppelin at January 07, 2014 08:36 AM (zL/eJ)
Posted by: Andy at January 07, 2014 08:36 AM (TAP/5)
Posted by: Kreplach at January 07, 2014 08:36 AM (+NYjg)
Cause that one you can find on youtube. Officer claim he mistook his pistol for his taser.
Who tases people in the head?
Posted by: Typo Dynamofo at January 07, 2014 08:37 AM (FtCW+)
Posted by: soothie at January 07, 2014 08:38 AM (KrfRJ)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:38 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Plaintiff Pug at January 07, 2014 12:32 PM (Qev5V)
the problem for you is you cannot come up with a reason to shoot even if I let you make up the facts to fit your scenario of a justified shoot.
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 08:38 AM (m2CN7)
Cops are going to be shocked shitless when they realize they've lost the support of the white middle class.
Posted by: boniface ballers
I think this has already happened. I know it has for me and friends and family. I used to be one of those that reflexively backed law enforcement, but no longer.
You're going to start seeing it at the ballot box when their gold-plated pensions and benefits packages start getting cut as they no longer have the support of the white middle class.
Posted by: McAdams at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (BVnAx)
First, yes, a "small screwdriver" is a deadly weapon. Three inches is plenty to do some fairly massive damage, and kevlar doesn't protect well against piercing damage.
-------------
You think he still was holding that screwdriver, and could have used it effectively, after being repeatedly tazed?
Posted by: grammie winger at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (P6QsQ)
sorry the thin blue has been burning trust for 13 years.... longer if you add in WACO
Posted by: sven
Ruby Ridge
Posted by: Mike Hammer
MOVE in Philly
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: JoeyBagels at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (Usdw3)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (9PrpA)
Posted by: Born Free at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (xL8Hf)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:39 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: Damiano at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (j0wOO)
under Department guidelines it can be argued this was a clean shoot in all likelihood...
of course to get there you have to bend "fear of imminent lethal harm to the officer or bystanders" to a place I'd rather not go...
I'd rather do without cops than live under THAT set of guidelines...
Like Mama Winger said "this is not my experience" of course my last experience was about 20 years ago....
The Cops clubbed my mom silly, I was relieved.
How is a 100 pond kid with a screwdriver more deadly than a 102 pound woman with a boyscout sharpened hatchet?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) No Really! at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: redguy at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (d8wEw)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (fWAjv)
A screwdriver!
BLAM BLAM BLAM
A pencil!
BLAM BLAM BLAM
A wristwatch!
BLAM BLAM BLAM
He looked at me funny!
BLAM BLAM BLAM
Posted by: Southport PD at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: soothie at January 07, 2014 08:40 AM (KrfRJ)
But if things did go down even close to what's described...yes, has to be a murder charge.
Posted by: Stu-22 at January 07, 2014 08:41 AM (AiYlm)
Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at January 07, 2014 08:41 AM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 12:33 PM (aDwsi)
My now retired boss used them because his cube was by the windows. He had some arthritis in his hands and he could not take the cold at all. He was from Maine, eyah, and always like to tell us poor Okies tales about the winters he endured as a kid.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, shhh, be a little quieter, some of us are trying to sleep. at January 07, 2014 08:41 AM (kXoT0)
A cop just shooting someone to save time? Imagine the paperwork and hassle involved with an officer-involved shooting. (I'm not a cop, so I'm speculating, but it's got to be a hell of a lot more time than just spending another ten minutes on the guy).
Posted by: Guy in Texas at January 07, 2014 12:13 PM (AcmH4)
I think there had to be something else that happened between "We don't have time for this" and the gunshot. I honestly cannot picture any cop -- even a sociopathic lunatic -- just whipping out his gun and shooting the kid in cold blood. Even if he accidentally grabbed his gun instead of his taser, I still can't envision that scenario.
In between that statement and the killshot, something happened. It's the nature of that something that will determine if the shooting was justified or not. Then the question will become why the situation re-escalated if the young man was already calming down. Why did the additional officer join the scene if further assistance wasn't needed?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:41 AM (4df7R)
First, yes, a "small screwdriver" is a deadly weapon. Three inches is plenty to do some fairly massive damage
Posted by: AllenG
Unless you're one of those tiny crappy nylon screws that strip instantly, really not.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (lZBBB)
Its a shame what happen to Linda Ronstadt.
A fat liberal harpy is no way to go thru life.
Posted by: dananjcon at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (wmU4G)
Posted by: maddog at January 07, 2014 12:40 PM (xWW96)
I was cross-eyed and curled up like an infant. It's not a fun thing.
***Note to maddog: your link in your nick is getting rejected by AoS
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (x3YFz)
Third cop came on the scene, completely mis-read the situation and recommended tazing first thing. STUPID. The kid was ready to go in the car before Officer Happy-trigger came around.
Not at all surprised the same idiot shot the kid. What pisses me off is that the other officers went along with it.
Posted by: Book at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (qWES6)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 08:42 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: Adrienne at January 07, 2014 08:43 AM (lVcuh)
Posted by: kbdabear at January 07, 2014 08:43 AM (aTXUx)
" Officer From another Town "
-
So, essentially someone with no authority whatsoever decided to show up and shoot a kid.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 07, 2014 08:43 AM (AskuI)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:43 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 12:34 PM (m2CN7)
-----------------------------------------------------------
We just don't know everything yet. This is Trakkyon/Zimmerman all over again without the obvious race element (that we know of). A policeman making a remark, pulling out his gun, then the father making a move to grab the gun leading to accidental discharge is also a believable scenario.
Posted by: Soona at January 07, 2014 08:43 AM (PNGtR)
http://tinyurl.com/msj7q3b
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HRMLrc0BkU
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (BZAd3)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at January 07, 2014 12:41 PM (4df7R)
To justify their budgets. It's the same reason you see two or three cop cars, an ambulance, and four or five fire rescue vehicles at every little traffic accident. "See, we're needed!" The unions have quite a bit to do with that, too.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 12:42 PM (x3YFz)
It is? It works when I click on it.
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Carol at January 07, 2014 08:44 AM (z4WKX)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:45 AM (PYAXX)
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 07, 2014 08:45 AM (XLoA6)
Posted by: t-bird at January 07, 2014 08:45 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 12:42 PM (x3YFz) It is? It works when I click on it.
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 12:44 PM (xWW96)
Can't quote you. Get the spam message until I hard delete your name and retype it.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:45 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 07, 2014 12:45 PM (XLoA6)
What, they decided circulation was too high and they need to take it down a notch?
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:46 AM (DrWcr)
I've also seen prosecutors in action and their disinterest in fairness or justice and total immersion in convictions/deals for convictions sake, regardless of the actual guilt or innocence of the accused. It's like a points game with these jackasses.
Posted by: Sphynx at January 07, 2014 08:46 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: the 24 Hour Rule at January 07, 2014 08:46 AM (YJSRY)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:46 AM (lZBBB)
Feared for my and my partner's life" has become their license to kill. If they're that afraid of not going home after their padded overtime shift, maybe they should find another line of work which doesn't jack up their paranoia
That is a legitimate defense for a clean shoot but it has to be based on a reasonable standard. That has always required the victim to have been in possesion of sometype of lethal force himself.
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (m2CN7)
233 "If it weren't for those tapes nothing would have happened."
The more I read and now watch these stories, the more convinced I am that I need 24 hour surveillance on me and mine.
Militarized cops... huh...
What a terrible lesson for citizens of this once great nation.
Posted by: Havildar -- Major at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (kduZC)
Posted by: Terentia at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (nFu3V)
Posted by: the 24 Hour Rule at January 07, 2014 12:46 PM (YJSRY)
FUCK YOU!
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (DrWcr)
He showed up "to help."
The thing is the cops who were commissioned to be there will likely NOT hurt a brother officer.
The cops still get to do the equivalent of a blanket party GIs do not.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: Moochelle Obama at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (7ObY1)
They're gonna need a bigger cover.
Posted by: Chief Brody at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (bAGA/)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 07, 2014 08:47 AM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Andy at January 07, 2014 08:48 AM (TAP/5)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 08:49 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: aka.john at January 07, 2014 08:49 AM (zPa3K)
Posted by: t-bird at January 07, 2014 08:49 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 07, 2014 08:49 AM (9PrpA)
Posted by: grognard at January 07, 2014 08:49 AM (Be2Wn)
First, yes, a "small screwdriver" is a deadly weapon. Three inches is plenty to do some fairly massive damage
Posted by: AllenG
I don't buy that, at least not in the hands of a 100lbs boy when three full sized, trained officers are on the scene. With tasers.
It's probably less dangerous than him having a pencil.
Posted by: McAdams at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (BVnAx)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (GjPnA)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 07, 2014 12:44 PM (VtjlW)
*WHIMPER*
YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: kbdabear at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at January 07, 2014 12:44 PM (7ObY1)
I hear you. I'm certain many others here have similar stories. Those kind of people try to choose professions where they don't have to answer for how broken they are.
But believe me, there are good LE. Solid guys and girls.
The guys you described? See... that's why God made deserts: so you could dig holes. Payback is a MFr
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Southport PD at January 07, 2014 08:50 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: aka.john at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (zPa3K)
Posted by: MAx at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (b7yum)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (PYAXX)
Something like 3% of the population are completely unaffected by pepper spray. It might as well be water. That comes straight from the officer who certified me on its use.
Posted by: bonhomme
And then he shot you to emphasis the point.....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:51 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: votermom at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (GSIDW)
That is standard procedure for a shoot, it is not suspension nor a rebuke.
These things take time, the ONLY chance there is for actual legit JUSTICE to be done on this is to keep it in the spotlight.
Otherwise it gets swept under the rug just like Starsky and Hutch on the trail of Dorner.
If the 70 second timeline is correct and the victim was restrained there is NO justification for this shoot and it is at best accidental negligence in werapon selection....
sorry AmishDude, sincerely I am I used to be a big LE booster but I see NO way this is anything approaching a clean shoot by 80s standards.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Paid for by Citizens for Clyde the Orangutan at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (QF8uk)
Posted by: jewells45 at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (l/N7H)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: MAx at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (b7yum)
Posted by: MAx at January 07, 2014 12:51 PM (b7yum)
That's a bullshit comparison. This kid was already tazed and restrained.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:52 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (9PrpA)
Posted by: Mega at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (hHFOx)
I have a lot of faith in your fine motor skills.
Just consider some of the other things you've done with gloves on.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (xq1UY)
Posted by: Lincolntf at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: t-bird at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 07, 2014 08:53 AM (DmNpO)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:54 AM (fWAjv)
Posted by: The Cops at January 07, 2014 08:54 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 08:55 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: --- at January 07, 2014 08:55 AM (MMC8r)
IF they think we will pay the fine. We are their prey. Illegals seem to be the brazen bears in the dumpsters.
Posted by: t-bird at January 07, 2014 12:49 PM (FcR7P)
Look, these guys deal with assholes, crackheads, junkies, rapists and shitbags every day.
No once calls a cop to a bake sale or to give them a hug.
So you have to understand that years and years of dealing with the scrapings off the bottom of the shitter burn barrel take a toll. And that affects the way they view people.
Everyone is a potential perp.
The good LE can step back and engage brain. The bad ones need to be put down.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:55 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 12:55 PM (lZBBB)
War on dogs. War on the mentally ill. War on gun-owning senior citizens.
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 08:55 AM (DrWcr)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at January 07, 2014 08:56 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Synova at January 07, 2014 08:56 AM (XKEoF)
I don't know what kind of schizophrenic episode this young man may have been experiencing, and I don't know what state of mind and body a person would need to be in for a tazer to have little to no effect. Certainly there are drugs that can make a tazer useless -- PCP, bath salts, what have you. If this young man was having some sort of manic episode, that may have had some effect on the tazer's ability to subdue him. HOwever that's not the impression I'm getting from the various accounts of what happened.
My point being, unless the guy was strung out on LSD or was otherwise out of his gourd in some fashion, two tazer blasts to a 5'3", 100lb 18 year old should ahve been enough to subdue him and get him into the car. So I want to know why that was not the case.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:56 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: RWC at January 07, 2014 08:56 AM (fWAjv)
Lena Dunham to be on COVER of Vogue. Yes, the cover. Can they airbrush over her FUPA?
Posted by: Brave
Lena Dunham is the reason there is such a thing as "designer vaginas."
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/b][/u][/i] at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (zfY+H)
War on WW2 vets trying to go to the WW2 monument....
basically cops are the political class' henchmen now and since they are union label types..
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 12:57 PM (xWW96)
"I don't have time for this" isn't the same as "I am the Law".
Maybe he was a Jesse Ventura fan.
Posted by: EC at January 07, 2014 08:57 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 08:58 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: rickb223 at January 07, 2014 08:58 AM (8D0/R)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 07, 2014 08:58 AM (HVff2)
Posted by: Southport PD at January 07, 2014 08:58 AM (DrWcr)
Sounds like the makings of a Libertarian Utopia.
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 12:57 PM (LSJmV)
That "SNAP!" you heard? That was the point going right past your head.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 08:58 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:59 AM (PYAXX)
Life imitates Monty Python skit:
"NEXT WE WILL COVER HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST A MAN ARMED WITH A BANANA ..."
Posted by: Phinn at January 07, 2014 08:59 AM (KOGmz)
Posted by: Mega at January 07, 2014 08:59 AM (hHFOx)
The military gets anally raped by the media, the peace movement, SOFA, and JAG internal audits on actions all the time....
too much IMHO considering the differences in mission...
or is it your conjection that the police and military missions are close enough to be directly analogous?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 08:59 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 08:59 AM (aDwsi)
Posted by: traye at January 07, 2014 09:00 AM (jp8Db)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 09:00 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Brandon in Baton Rouge at January 07, 2014 09:01 AM (4eDvT)
Posted by: traye at January 07, 2014 01:00 PM (jp8Db)
Two holding the victim. One shooter.
Where were the other two cops?
Posted by: EC at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (GQ8sn)
Based on about 70% of the comments here, it sounds like it's time to
disband all police departments. Might as well do the same with our
military. It's even easier to enlist in the army than it is to get on a
police force, so you know it's full of 'bad apples'.
In the Army you don't get to arrest civilian "Perps" who look at you wrong or who didn't renew their vehicle inspection and have an empty beer can on the car's floor. You don't get to violently restrain an already docile subject by wrenching their arms unnaturally behind them while pressing your 240 pound weight in their back with your knee. No fun, see?
Posted by: Sphynx at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (VtjlW)
I'm very skeptical that a pistol can ever be mistaken for a Taser. The safeties don't work anything close to the same way, and they obviously don't weigh or feel anything close to the same. That sounds like an excuse made up after the fact.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (HubSo)
My fear is that facts in any matter concerning government are increasingly hard to come by.
Posted by: tubal the bad at January 07, 2014 09:02 AM (YEQ2h)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:03 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 07, 2014 09:03 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Stringer Davis at January 07, 2014 09:03 AM (xq1UY)
CountrySquire thinks it is all about the badge...
IIRC he was pretty passionate in his defense of the Dorner execution and also pretty non-supportive of George Zimmerman's right to self-defense...
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:03 AM (TE35l)
That seems really strange to me.
A cop from another jurisdiction comes in to tell two other cops in the district they patrol and have authority over to stop negotiating and start tasing?
This doesn't make sense.
Posted by: EC at January 07, 2014 09:04 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: aka.john at January 07, 2014 09:04 AM (zPa3K)
I agree, and to make CountrySquire's head explode...
If the best thing John Kerry and Obama can think of to do with the US Military is to aid Palestine in hurting Israel...
Yeah shut it down and break all the toys....
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:05 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Joe at January 07, 2014 09:05 AM (fHAT3)
Posted by: Havedash at January 07, 2014 09:05 AM (SIR+t)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 09:05 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: traye at January 07, 2014 09:06 AM (jp8Db)
Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at January 07, 2014 09:07 AM (HEa5q)
Right just like the kid in the stolen truck...which happens in near every farmtown in America without bodybags by the facts in play....
yes nobody will argue that unless his kid was gonna kill him or the Mrs the dad did not fuck up calling LE.....
the 70 seconds will either be confirmed or not....
quick you explain to me how the cop took a 70 second assessment of the situation that justified a legal shoot.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:07 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 09:07 AM (LSJmV)
You and I danced pretty hard on Dorner partner...
so I am wrong and you were a GZ supporter...
okay my memory for these things ain't what it once was I stand corrected.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:09 AM (TE35l)
---
Another unforced error.
/sigh
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:10 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Synova at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (XKEoF)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 12:59 PM (aDwsi)
But, but, but, DIVERSITY!!!11!!!1!
Posted by: Insomniac at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (DrWcr)
Which tells me they were afraid of the possibility of getting stabbed.
Part of being a cop used to be understood you were gonna lose tissue on the beat...
I am thinking they are trying to figure out how to spin this that the amount of force in play was a sensible thing...?
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (bCEmE)
Posted by: Palooka at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (aNlIg)
If the facts are accurate. And he said " We don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal once in the chest as the other two Officers held him on the floor.
VidalÂ’s father then grabbed the officer as he was lining himself up for another shot
You don't have an argument. You have an open and shut case.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:11 AM (0q2P7)
Happened to be in Blowing Rock, NC. Sort of an upscale gift shop/artsy town. Some of the shop proprietors would let you know, subtly, that they weren't into all that country music, high-country, Blue Ridge thing.
Saw a cop walking along the street with his right hand resting firmly on his holstered gun. From which I deduced; Blowing Rock is full of violent felons every day but when I was there, he has a lousy holster and wants to keep the gun from falling out, he's a punk.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at January 07, 2014 09:12 AM (0EYmc)
I worked an adult locked-in unit at a State Hospital some years back. We had no weapons, no cops, no muscle bound orderlies. When a crazy went berserk, which was often cuz that is why they were there, we either talked them down or took them down. It is not that difficult, the mentally ill are not in peak fighting form.
We were heavily regulated and closely monitored. If the nj got hurt, there would be hell to pay. If shooting them was optional, I imagine some would have been shot. Because, time
Posted by: Artruen at January 07, 2014 09:12 AM (fDGF1)
Posted by: Drider at January 07, 2014 09:13 AM (/VmYa)
We're all willing to completely believe that the loony leftists manufacture incidents of racial harassment or lie about athropomorphic global warming and are proven time and again to be correct (the left lies), but now we're willing to give credence that a cop callously executes this kid without anything except a news report?
The left lies people. There is way more to this story than we're being told/
Posted by: Joe West at January 07, 2014 09:13 AM (IdLE/)
Posted by: Palooka at January 07, 2014 01:11 PM (aNlIg)
He'll be fine. No DA on the planet will touch this one.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:13 AM (x3YFz)
He was Raylan Givens....
it'd be like a cop in Yellow Springs Ohio being kitted out like Stallone in Demolition Man....
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:14 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:14 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: OBlahblahblahblah at January 07, 2014 09:14 AM (vXqv3)
If the facts are accurate. And he said " We don’t have time for this” and shot Vidal once in the chest as the other two Officers held him on the floor.
VidalÂ’s father then grabbed the officer as he was lining himself up for another shot
You don't have an argument. You have an open and shut case.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 01:11 PM (0q2P7)
Won't be able to prove premeditation. 2d degree. 40 years of pound me in the ass prison.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:14 AM (x3YFz)
Please provide references back to AOSHQ of "Most or all cops are bad guys" oh wait, you constructed a second straw man to hack down in order to justify killing the first. Wanna go for a third?
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:15 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 09:15 AM (LSJmV)
Posted by: Joe West at January 07, 2014 01:13 PM (IdLE/)
I'll let you make up the facts you want to support a justified shooting.
Okay begin.
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Southport Police Officer Training Manual at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (0cMkb)
Posted by: Daybrother at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (V8gxi)
Heh okay....
so two cops with an immobilized but uncooperative small framed perp having a field expedient weapon justifies summary execution with the words "we don't have time for this" being in play...
Silly me I would have started punching perp in the face had that been my call and so would have the bobbies bud.
I was wrong, point conceded this was a clean shoot.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 01:14 PM (5xmd7)
horseshit. Threat assessment is part of the job. You don't put a .40 in someone's chest at point blank range unless there's a direct threat to life.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: kbdabear at January 07, 2014 09:16 AM (aTXUx)
Maybe, not being an ass and not giving you heat.
I seemed to recall you and I have had this battle before.
I am sincere when I say I was a BIG supporter of the LE community foir a lot of years...
the disparate treatment of occupy wall street is what started the coffee pot breaking I think.
Y'all keep warm.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:18 AM (TE35l)
I'm sorry his words and follow up actions of his first shot are way over prima facie for premeditation.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:18 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at January 07, 2014 09:20 AM (DmNpO)
Posted by: Trevor@TJexcite at January 07, 2014 09:20 AM (bkAvJ)
In the right town I'd need to see his picture before I agreed.
Chief Moose didn't happen by accident you know.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:20 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Daybrother at January 07, 2014 09:20 AM (aclSy)
Posted by: EC at January 07, 2014 09:21 AM (GQ8sn)
Sure, Jewells45, borrow away.
The only cops I know are like the ones I just described, plus the one that my ex-wife started fucking four years into our marriage, which I found out about after a year and led to our divorce. I have three beautiful kids from that marriage. They don't live with their Dad anymore, because of a pig of a cop and a stupid bitch ex-wife.
So, YMMV. Mine sure has.
Posted by: Sharkman at January 07, 2014 09:21 AM (TM1p8)
Well that was what I was taught at a RENT-A-COP Bodyguard cert class....
but I don't have the super fast OODA loop that that cop has...
We are taught to use situational awareness in OSUT IIRC...but again "who am I to judge?"
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:22 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 09:22 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:23 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Have a Querulous New Year from the Outrage Outlet at January 07, 2014 09:23 AM (hLRSq)
Y'all keep warm.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 01:18 PM (TE35l)
It's really very relative. Our County Sheriff and his deputies are freaking amazing. I've sat in my kitchen over coffee with deputies discussing the mating habits of Sun Conures. They've helped me round up cattle that broke the wire.
Rescued a bald eagle with a broken wing with me.
When I was a bouncer, they never overapplied force.
Our city police? Not so much.
Just reserve judgement until you're there.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:23 AM (x3YFz)
Already exists. The goo gun. It fires out a stream of fast polymerizing strong liquid that forms a disabling cocoon/mesh as it hardens.
Posted by: Purp[/i][/b][/s] at January 07, 2014 09:24 AM (/8Opk)
disband all police departments. Might as well do the same with our
military. It's even easier to enlist in the army than it is to get on a
police force, so you know it's full of 'bad apples'.
Sounds like the makings of a Libertarian Utopia.
Posted by: Countrysquire at January 07, 2014 12:57 PM (LSJmV)
There's too much of this shit going on. Not a week goes by when you don't hear about some no-knock raid on the wrong address that results in somebody being terrorized or killed, or a cop mistaking his pistol for his taser and killing somebody, or some jackbooted thugs having somebody anally raped because they seemed to be walking with their ass clenched. They send in a fucking SWAT team in the dead of night to kick your door in if they suspect there's an ounce of weed in your house, but if there's an active shooter in a school they wait for backup. It seems like every town with a population over 100,000 has an MRAP or some other armored personnel carrier in their inventory. Cops can shoot dogs with impunity just because they feel "threatened", something that you or I would go to prison for. And there are rarely any consequences. They usually get time off with pay while the shit's being swept under the rug, aka "investigated". Remember "Troopergate"? When a state trooper tased an autistic 11 year old, poached a moose out the window of his squad car with his service weapon, and made death threats against a sitting Governor's parents, and she was the bad guy for trying to get him disciplined? But hey, the only thing in this fucking world that matters is that the cops go home safe at night, right?
IMHO, we have the war on drugs and the war on terror to thank for this. If you tell somebody they're part of fighting a war they're going to stop acting like peace officers and start acting like Rambo.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at January 07, 2014 09:26 AM (KSjsb)
Posted by: traye at January 07, 2014 09:26 AM (jp8Db)
Posted by: Karl Rove at January 07, 2014 09:27 AM (aTXUx)
So go easy on these folks. It's a tough job. Like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones. Just be discerning in your judgement.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:28 AM (x3YFz)
So mental wards should drop dead every patient that picks up something that can potentially injure? Sorry, no dice.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:28 AM (0q2P7)
That's funny that is what I read it as...hey guess what we do not know what happened that is what trials are for....but if it is not made a cause it will slip under the rug...
seen it too many times.
By the way a cop has no more or less right to the use of lethal force in self-defense than a common citizen...so if I might inquire what state are you in where an average citizen can kill a partially subdued assailant in a clean shoot?
I live in Ohio(by State residency) this circumstance would have charges filed against me I would have to answer in court.
I was a Class C licensed bodyguard by way of a security cert in Ohio, I known that cops get gapped extra space by a DA I am having a VERY hard time imagining a scenario where I...a person who was told by a DPD Sgt I had too bad a tempter and too quick a willingness to use reciprocal force to be a good fit as a cop would come up with "shoot" as an answer to this scenario as presented.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:29 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: theBuckWheat at January 07, 2014 09:30 AM (siI12)
Posted by: Trevor@TJexcite at January 07, 2014 09:30 AM (bkAvJ)
348 EASY. He ESCALATED. If you folks had more experience with violent crazy people you'd KNOW that possibility/probability.
This is all a squirrel that silly puppies allow themselves to get distracted by. So many people here are experts in what happened I see no need for a trial
Posted by: MAx at January 07, 2014 09:31 AM (b7yum)
I "bounced" a little at a strip club...I was a Class C security guard in Ohio....
deputies in my experience do tend to be a little calmer depends on the force.
I used to have a LOT of deference and tolerance for the PDs but they have burnt a LOT of it.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:31 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 01:29 PM (TE35l)
Nicely put. I had been toying with the verbiage to say that, but couldn't put it in 1 paragraph without a whole ton of profanity.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:32 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Daybrother at January 07, 2014 09:32 AM (18v6B)
Mentally ill people are often dangerous; recalcitrant, unpredictable, fearful and delusional. Thats true. But police can make a bad situation a deadly one. Families usually don't call for help unless the person is out of control and scaring them. Its not like there is someplace else to go. This kid should have been in residential treatment center a long time ago, but they don't exist anymore.
Posted by: SarahW at January 07, 2014 09:32 AM (LYwCh)
Posted by: Trevor@TJexcite at January 07, 2014 09:32 AM (bkAvJ)
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 01:31 PM (TE35l)
If it makes you feel any better, my best friend is a cop and hates cops. LOL.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:33 AM (x3YFz)
Quite...only COPS get this magic power...
Like I side Mike I thanked the cops that beat my mom unconcious and had it happened in the late 90 to now I think she'd have been shot.
Brave New World
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:33 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Mike Hammer at January 07, 2014 12:59 PM (aDwsi)
But, but, but, DIVERSITY!!!11!!!1! Couple years back, a very large repeat Felon was transported from county lock up to the hospital by a single, lone deputy. Unfortunatly, for the deputy she was ~120 lbs in her full battle rattle. Well, this extra large gentleman took away this ladies taser and glock. Whacked her a bit about the head and took off. This was in MY local neighborhood. Thank G__ the stupid perp was seen holed up in a garage in the neighborhood. Once discovered he surrendered. But, could have been much worse. The PC culture just gets folks killed. No changes to the procedures. No repercussion for the deputy or the dipshit Sheriff that almost got her killed either.
Posted by: Havildar -- Major at January 07, 2014 09:34 AM (kduZC)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 01:23 PM (5xmd7)
What is this weapon you are referring to?
Posted by: polynikes at January 07, 2014 09:36 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: The Political Hat at January 07, 2014 09:36 AM (XvHmy)
little voice tells me you might like this place: gruntsandco.com/welcome-gruntsandco
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:37 AM (x3YFz)
I have met/dealt with some crappy cops, some asshole cops, some that should never have been given a gun and a badge by anybody, and a lot of really good cops over 57 years.
Had an dumbass cop the other night on my 5th noise complaint call that they ignored 4 times. Ended up having to deal with the problem myself. Wanted to tell me his version of local ordinance. I was able to quote what it actually said. He had to do his job. Poorly, reluctantly, ineffectively.
Posted by: Artruen at January 07, 2014 09:37 AM (fDGF1)
It's just part of the marxist cycle hat....
LE is being slowly Federalized and Federal LE is being militarized...trickle down Stasi
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:38 AM (TE35l)
Based on about 70% of the comments here, it sounds like it's time to disband all police departments.
No. But it would be nice of the cops who participate in deadly no-knock raids, who shoot dogs, who sodomize and strip-search prisoners and who conduct unauthorized, illegal roadblocks for DNA samples were - oh, I don't know - maybe fucking punished instead of given time outs or "suspended" with pay?
Might as well do the same with our military. It's even easier to enlist in the army than it is to get on a police force, so you know it's full of 'bad apples'.
Sounds like the makings of a Libertarian Utopia.
The chicken called. Says thanks for fucking those strawmen instead of him.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at January 07, 2014 09:39 AM (zF6Iw)
It's a hard job no doubt and the good cops are worth their weight in gold.
It needs to be made easier for cops to be fired.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:39 AM (TE35l)
-C
Posted by: cnation at January 07, 2014 09:39 AM (cP5n1)
oooh nice strawman. Now we can't even have opinions. You know, bottom line I get it, 95% of cops are good cops. The real problem isn't the 5% that are bad though. It's the the remaining cops which WILL NEVER turn on them.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:41 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Daybrother is learning restraint at January 07, 2014 09:41 AM (6IY2T)
Posted by: The Political Hat at January 07, 2014 01:36 PM (XvHmy)
Most of them are wannabes that tell you stories of "when they were in the shit in the 'stan." SWAT/EET teams are loaded with them.
But there's good beat cops out there.
You might be surprised that if you see a car running traffic, pull over, get out and shake their hand and say "thank you."
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:41 AM (x3YFz)
This goes back to the 70s, once upon a time we had a county mental health services system that worked at keeping the insane safely away from society....
Liberal crusading fixed that.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:42 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:44 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 01:42 PM (TE35l)
Yeah, its been replaced with the homeless. Or rather thats what they are called now.
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 09:44 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: NYC Parent at January 07, 2014 09:46 AM (K89zE)
Posted by: sunny-dee at January 07, 2014 09:46 AM (EBoCD)
Posted by: kbdabear at January 07, 2014 09:47 AM (aTXUx)
Posted by: sunny-dee at January 07, 2014 01:46 PM (EBoCD)
Yeah but they cured his ass from stealing.
Posted by: maddogg at January 07, 2014 09:48 AM (xWW96)
tangonine at January 07, 2014 01:37 PM (x3YFz)
Thanks!
Posted by: Havildar -- Major at January 07, 2014 01:42 PM (kduZC)
Will is a West Point instructor, platoon leader, combat vet. I've known him for a few years now, and we wrastle over stuff guys wrastle over. He's good people.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:48 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Daybrother is learning restraint at January 07, 2014 09:49 AM (RTUqv)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 07, 2014 09:49 AM (vHRtU)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:49 AM (5xmd7)
I trust reporters even less for obvious reasons.
Remember that kid who went after his HS debate coach with a shotgun? One of his classmates described him as a "socialist", yet it was scrubbed soon after release with no attribution to the original version.
Posted by: EC at January 07, 2014 09:51 AM (GQ8sn)
You see, that right there. Won't, nay, can't say that it's excessive. Can't say the cops were wrong. That's the problem with cops. They won't stop a bad cop. They will defend the clearly abusive cop to the end.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:53 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 01:49 PM (5xmd7)
I'm not sure how much experience you have stabbing people with blunt objects, but I'll offer that if you pull a screwdriver on a trained LE wearing body armor....
...not a threat.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:54 AM (x3YFz)
Two officers couldn't take down a 100lb kid with a screwdriver without shooting him. That's the hill you are willing to die on?
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Laughing Maniacally While Throwing Matches. at January 07, 2014 09:55 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 09:55 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 07, 2014 09:56 AM (vHRtU)
What we see in reports is filtered by news editors unless it is live Chris...
even removing we don't have time for this I still couldn't do this shoot and walk away clean...
that is the standard not "well the cop is empowered to be the grim reaper by a special set of rules...."
I mean we CAN go to that but if that is to in fact be the law in effect let's make it the law overtly and get the relationship in proper perspective.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:56 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 01:49 PM (5xmd7)
I'm not sure how much experience you have stabbing people with blunt objects, but I'll offer that if you pull a screwdriver on a trained LE wearing body armor....
...not a threat.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 01:54 PM (x3YFz)
And, look, I'm no Bruce Lee here, but a screwdriver? 100 lbs? Yeah, I don't even need a weapon. Perhaps some tissue to wipe my eyes after I'm done laughing that hard is all.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 09:56 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Havedash at January 07, 2014 12:32 PM (SIR+t)
=========================
Been there, done that. Fortunately for me, the law was on my side and the judge actually decided to rule according to the law.
Posted by: physics geek at January 07, 2014 09:58 AM (MT22W)
Posted by: The Political Hat at January 07, 2014 09:59 AM (XvHmy)
My point exactly...if that really is the law let's go ahead and pass it and get the Governor and President's sig on it please?
As it now seems to stand it is there but not able to be seen.
I do comply with cops, thus far I have never been in a position it was right not to....
It'd be nice to know I legally have to follow rights violating, or criminal orders or face the death penalty.
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 09:59 AM (TE35l)
Posted by: RickZ at January 07, 2014 09:59 AM (PpAf4)
However, 90 pound weaklings have killed or seriously injured police officers, officers have been injured or killed in domestic disputes, etc. Dealing with the mentally ill who are having psychotic breakdowns are also where many police and correctional officers are getting hurt. In a confusing situation where people are moving, screaming, and in close proximity, bad things can happen because reaction times don't necessarily keep up with what others are doing. This instance is a tragedy and may yet be an example of malicious murder by a cop but it will continue until we have a better mental health care system and that includes in-house custodial care for many severely mentally ill. See http://tinyurl.com/nl6xpjm for examples of what police deal with in many metro areas. Believe me, I know that bad cops exist, see Bivins case as an example out of many. I also know that many get away with things that normal citizens don't. But, I want to wait for more facts on this one rather than the family's take. What I have found in these cases is that the media almost always screws the story up in order to create a narrative of heroes, villians, and victims.
I close with noting that as Alfred Hitchcock supposedly said, "I do not hate police but I am afraid of them."
Posted by: wg at January 07, 2014 10:02 AM (A/slq)
Posted by: Cloudbuster at January 07, 2014 10:05 AM (AiKJm)
Posted by: wg at January 07, 2014 02:02 PM (A/slq)
Sort of.
Weekly self-defense training, martial arts, body armor and constant situational awareness give you the tools that allow you the freedom to peacefully defuse situations like this
A steady, slow and thoughtful approach to a volatile situation is easier obtained by having a lot of tools/skills at your disposal, and the experience and wisdom to properly apply them.
90 lbs weaklings injure unprepared officers.
Posted by: tangonine at January 07, 2014 10:09 AM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Shoey at January 07, 2014 10:10 AM (jdOk/)
Posted by: nip at January 07, 2014 10:20 AM (jI23+)
Posted by: Corona at January 07, 2014 10:27 AM (fh2Y7)
Failing that, less lethal means can be tried and you can always fall back on the 'cell extraction drill' with the officers armored up and dog piling the patient with trapping shields and etc.
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at January 07, 2014 10:29 AM (vHRtU)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 11:31 AM (5xmd7)
There's no reason a 100 pound kid should be dead at the end of this encounter that doesn't involve the words " police fucked up BADLY".
Giving them cover like you all are is despicable.
Posted by: nunya at January 07, 2014 11:40 AM (EilFB)
Posted by: Rufus T Firefly at January 07, 2014 11:46 AM (Qm24A)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 11:51 AM (5xmd7)
Posted by: Rufus T Firefly at January 07, 2014 11:57 AM (Qm24A)
Posted by: sven10077 at January 07, 2014 12:02 PM (TE35l)
Posted by: Rufus T Firefly at January 07, 2014 12:10 PM (Qm24A)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at January 07, 2014 12:15 PM (5xmd7)
Posted by: Havildar -- Major at January 07, 2014 12:46 PM (kduZC)
We've criminalized light bulbs and new wood stoves lacking imaginary and uninvented features...
When I say overtly codify the disparate legal standards I mean precisely that not "deem passed by apathy"....
that enough people are not enraged enough by the cops having extralegal "consideration" for the use of lethal is not the same thing as protecting the sanctity of the rule of law even if said law is odious.
1 bad law that is not really on the books is bad...
the whole body of laws that are not on the books right now is atrocious....
if we are to have a police state let's have it well defined and freely embrace it.
Posted by: Sven 10077 at January 07, 2014 12:54 PM (TE35l)
Posted by: Budahmon at January 07, 2014 01:28 PM (bBSSG)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 07, 2014 02:40 PM (OsCtd)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 07, 2014 02:44 PM (OsCtd)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 07, 2014 02:45 PM (OsCtd)
Posted by: Xavier at January 07, 2014 03:41 PM (3K05Z)
They did this because the cops liked the familiar feel of pistol-grip tasers. They train with pistols so firing pistol/tasers feels "right".
It just ends up getting innocent people killed by accident.
Do I know this is what happened? Not for sure...but it is the Occams Razor solution and I live by Occam's Razor.
Posted by: Kasper in Arrears..... at January 07, 2014 04:20 PM (OVmhO)
I have no idea about this story. The victim was probably in the wrong, given that he was schizophrenic. But you should understand that small screwdrivers can be EXTREMELY deadly when used to puncture. Easily more deadly than your average 10" kitchen knife.
Posted by: Kevin at January 07, 2014 04:22 PM (UFwhk)
Posted by: Normal man spiting on his hands at January 07, 2014 04:56 PM (agLwc)
Yep, when a 5'3" 90lb guy is being held down by two officers that 3" screwdriver in his hand can cause MASSIVE damage. I'm surprised the cops didn't just take off and nuke the neighborhood from orbit, you know... just to be safe.
Posted by: joe at January 07, 2014 05:07 PM (mKEi6)
Posted by: Burnt Toast at January 07, 2014 05:18 PM (80R0X)
Posted by: FGCU_James at January 07, 2014 08:53 PM (if2JC)
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Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) Ah, F It. at January 07, 2014 08:00 AM (PYAXX)