Ace of Spades HQ

May 08, 2014

What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?
— Gabriel Malor

I thought I'd expand on my previous posts (see here and here) since some folks still seem confused.

Yesterday, the House, in a bipartisan vote, found former IRS Exempt Organizations Director Lois Lerner in criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to testify about the IRS targeting of conservative groups.

Rep. Issa explains:

Â“To preempt the release of an independent investigation, Ms. Lerner publicly admitted that the IRS division she led had targeted conservatives. After waiving her right to protection from self-incrimination, Lerner had a choice: testify fully and truthfully about what occurred or face criminal contempt. Ms. Lerner refused to testify even after her attorney told Congress she would do so.
Â“Unless the President decides to assert executive privilege, there is no precedent for the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia to do anything but pursue this criminal case. Absent political interference by the Administration, this legally binding action Â– as well as a separate resolution calling for a special prosecutor to take over the Main Justice DepartmentÂ’s tainted and dormant investigation Â– require the Justice Department to take action.Â”

There's a lot of information packed in there. Here are the 7 issues that will impact the outcome.

(1) Lerner planted the question that revealed the IRS targeting in order to preempt an internal investigation report. It has been largely forgotten now, but this scandal first came to light because Lerner masterminded a roll-out strategy for the scandal because an inspector general's report that detailed the targeting was imminent. The first step in that strategy was for Lerner to ask a friend to pose the question at a conference so that Lerner could explain away the scandal before the IG report became public.

(2) Lerner may have waived her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Virtually all the commentary I see on this from conservative websites (and from Rep. Issa) is, at the very least, incomplete. Part of the difficulty is that application of the right against self-incrimination before Congress is an undeveloped area of law. I cannot emphasize that enough. We just don't know whether she waived her right against self-incrimination because there is scant judicial guidance on this, and what guidance does exist is contradictory. We can take civil and criminal case law as a guide to self-incrimination before Congress, but the bottom line is that witnesses before Congress can pretty much get away with whatever Congress will let them get away with. There were several missteps here.

First, Issa let Lerner go with a blanket invocation of the Fifth Amendment the first time she came before the committee. Such blanket invocations are foreign to civil and criminal cases, so Issa let congressional procedure deviate from civil and criminal procedure right out the gate. He tried to clean it up later by issuing a statement saying she'd waived the Fifth, but it's unclear whether a court will accept that (again, there's no precedent either way).

Second, Issa eventually tried to remedy this problem and make the congressional procedure more closely conform to case law by calling Lerner back and getting her to invoke the Fifth Amendment to specific questions. Unfortunately, case law provides that a witness may waive the right against self-incrimination in one proceeding, and then invoke it later at a different proceeding on the same subject. So even if Lerner waived the right at the first hearing, it will be tough to argue that she waived it for the second hearing, at least if we're applying civil and criminal case law.

Civil case law has also held that a witness may make exculpatory statements without waiving the Fifth Amendment in the situation where the witness is both compelled to appear (i.e., the testimony is not voluntary) and the witness makes no incriminating statements prior to the waiver. Both of those things appear to be true here, but as I wrote above, this was a congressional proceeding, not a civil trial. The difference may be crucial to resolving whether Lerner waived and there just isn't any judicial guidance on it. My gut is that the courts will simply default to the easiest route and apply their own civil precedent to Congressional proceedings.

(3) Lerner has been cited for criminal contempt. Criminal contempt is not the same thing as civil contempt. A criminal contempt conviction ends in a fine or jail time or both. It does not end in the witness being compelled to testify. If the House wants to actually get Lerner's testimony, it will have to sue for civil contempt and win the waiver argument described above. This is the procedure the House took to try and get AG Holder to cough up Fast & Furious information, but that case is still bogged down in court.

(4) Lerner has indicated that a crime occurred. There have been some suggestions that Lerner is "innocent until proven guilty" and that we cannot take a negative inference from her invocation of the Fifth Amendment. This is false. It is entirely appropriate to take a negative inference from someone invoking the Fifth in civil proceedings or before Congress. She had no reason to do so unless she believed a crime had been committed. We can take Lerner at her word when she indicated that she believes a crime had been committed.

(5) The law requires that the U.S. Attorney present the matter to a grand jury. 2 U.S.C. Â§ 194 provides that in these cases: "it shall be the duty of the . . . Speaker of the House . . . to certify, and he shall so certify, the statement of facts aforesaid under the seal of the . . . House . . . to the appropriate United States attorney, whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action."

However, some U.S. Attorneys have resisted fulfilling that duty. Previously, the only circumstance in which U.S. Attorneys have declined to present the matter to a grand jury is when the administration invokes executive privilege. That's why Issa mentions executive privilege in his statement. He's pre-butting a potential objection from the Holder Department of Justice by pointing out that there has never been an assertion of executive privilege in Lerner's case. Does that mean that the U.S. Attorney will actually present the matter to a grand jury here? No. Expect resistance, the "political interference" Issa mentions.

(6) Lerner could cut a deal. Reports have indicated that Lerner was close to cutting a deal just prior to being called to testify the second time. Obviously, if some kind of deal is made, the contempt matter ends. Such a deal could be made at any time, but is unlikely to come while we wait and see what the U.S. Attorney decides to do. The chance for a deal drops to near zero if the U.S. Attorney declines to present the matter to a grand jury.

(7) Issa could seek civil contempt lawsuit authorization at any time. In the case that the U.S. Attorney decides not to do his duty, Issa could seek authorization (first in the committee and then in the full chamber) to file a civil lawsuit seeking to compel Lerner's testimony. This has only ever happened to three people: Harriet Miers, Joshua Bolton, and Eric Holder.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 05:50 AM | Comments (162)
Post contains 1225 words, total size 8 kb.

1 Lerner will do whatever Holder and the Dept of Injustice tells her to do.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 08, 2014 05:51 AM (XyM/Y)

2 She'll walk away unscathed and get a thank-you job. Next question.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 05:51 AM (7ObY1)

3 I'm sure Harry Reid is going to blame this on the Koch brothers.

Posted by: Hamilton at May 08, 2014 05:52 AM (oMYHY)

4 Hot coals. Pincers. Tongs. The rack. The wheel. The iron maiden.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 05:54 AM (DrWcr)

5 All this "explaining" by Gabe really doesn't matter. Nothing is going to happen, so the details may be interesting, but not particularly important.

Posted by: Max Power at May 08, 2014 05:54 AM (QCc6B)

6 What happens next? Pedicure and meets friends for lunch. Oh, and some shopping for purses and fun things. Then home for a quick nap before out to dinner with a special someone. That's what's next.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 05:54 AM (EWsrI)

7 Using the powers of the state to silence and direct public opinion and policy, those powers we all know eventually lead directly to violence - guns and lots and lots of guns.

This is textbook tyranny and is exactly what the anti-federalists expected to have happen.

Federal prison is too good for the people that would rule over us as kings and tyrants.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 05:58 AM (NnjE8)

8 [cups ear]

What was that? I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

What? I. said. I. Can't. Hear. You.

I can't hear you from all the way down there.

Posted by: Eric 'His People' Holder, Dept. of Social Justice at May 08, 2014 05:58 AM (FuN7f)

9 Thanks for the write-up Gabe. I think there is a "above contempt" air about this administration and they will have no qualms going where no administration has gone before. The AG of the US is in contempt of Congress for crying out loud. They are slow-walking everything. Someone mentioned the RICO statues a year or so ago.... this administration and agencies are truly acting like a crime syndicate and I think they will push all the constitutional crisis buttons because they don't recognize the authority of the people or this Congress to call them to account.

Posted by: Yip at May 08, 2014 05:59 AM (/jHWN)

10 That was a whole lotta words to say nothing will come of this.

Posted by: mugiwara at May 08, 2014 05:59 AM (W7ffl)

11 I think what she would like to do is ask for immunity in exchange for testimony, then say "It's a fair cop, I done it all, right no doubt about that" and thus get Obama, Holder et al off the hook.

Posted by: Null at May 08, 2014 05:59 AM (P7hip)

12 So, hold off on ordering from Tumbrels 'n' Pikes, then?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 08, 2014 06:00 AM (jJ3HS)

13 It's moot. The laws depend on the players in this drama being ethical and Holder and company think ethics are racist. The fact that Holder himself is in contempt lowers all this to the level of farce. All setting a nasty precedent, because the executive branch has the guns.

Posted by: joncelli at May 08, 2014 06:01 AM (RD7QR)

14 She'll walk away unscathed and get a thank-you job. IOW, SNAFU.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 08, 2014 06:01 AM (Kud7z)

15 48hoursforfreedom -ACLJ This is a lay out of the Atty's for those that were harassed by lerner and the iRS courtesy of Jackstraw last night. http://preview.tinyurl.com/qetpr63

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:02 AM (nqBYe)

16 So, Issa is bad lawyer. Got it.
Next.

Posted by: BEL at May 08, 2014 06:02 AM (thLL8)

17 So here's what will happen.

DOJ won't do squat.

Lerner will be feted in liberal circles as a victim of Republican hate.

It is teh suq.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 08, 2014 06:03 AM (9GG/0)

18 Gabe, do you have any insight as to how the Tea Party group lawsuits are coming against the IRS?

Posted by: chemjeff at May 08, 2014 06:03 AM (9GG/0)

19 My vote is rolled through the streets naked in a cage being pelted by excrement, though I suspect I will be disappointed.

Posted by: NYC Parent at May 08, 2014 06:03 AM (HEo6y)

13: "All setting a nasty precedent, because the executive branch has the guns."

There is no law but what the man with the guns says there is.

#2030

Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) Est. 1836 at May 08, 2014 06:03 AM (OJn3e)

21 Item #6 -- Lerner will NEVER ever 'cut a deal'.

Take that point and toss it in a landfill... Rule #1 of 'The Chicago Way': Nobody talks... everybody walks.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at May 08, 2014 06:04 AM (lJaja)

22 included in that is this remark from lerner. July 10, 2012: LernerÂ’s Mindset Revealed: Lois Lerner, in response to a story sent to her regarding the complaint to the FEC against Crossroads GPS replies Â“Perhaps the FEC will save the day.Â” hahah oh, well yeah

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:04 AM (nqBYe)

23 Rep. Issa explains ...and that's about all he does is 'splain. What a disappointment he and his investigations have been: "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/s] [/u] at May 08, 2014 06:05 AM (jJ3HS)

24 Libertarians are all about personal responsibility. You may be confusing us with libertines. Of course fathers are responsible for whomever they sire. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 09:57 AM (JtwS4) Yet this seldom happens in practice, and the Libertarians are always on about "How dare you interfere with what goes on in the bedroom?" The connection between irresponsible sex and victimized children (and taxpayers) never seems to be noticed. What is the current percentage of illegitimacy? around 40% or so? It is my argument that fatherless children often grow up to be thugs and criminals, and thereby victimizing others, and it all starts with this idea that there ought to be no constraints or penalties for people engaging in irresponsible behavior. Causality is a bitch.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:06 AM (bb5+k)

25 chemjeff, #15 has a lot of info from that aspect

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:06 AM (nqBYe)

26 5 All this "explaining" by Gabe really doesn't matter. Nothing is going to happen, so the details may be interesting, but not particularly important. Posted by: Max Power at May 08, 2014 09:54 AM (QCc6B) That is my impression as well.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:07 AM (bb5+k)

27 Is this a joke? Nothing will happen next. Nothing.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:07 AM (hIntH)

28 It is my argument that fatherless children often grow up to be thugs and criminals, and thereby victimizing others, and it all starts with this idea that there ought to be no constraints or penalties for people engaging in irresponsible behavior. Causality is a bitch. Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 10:06 AM (bb5+k) Dont leave out the mothers that throw out the fathers and alienate their kids from them, all the while demanding child support.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 06:07 AM (DrWcr)

29 Tainted and dormant..

Sums up the entire Obama administration

Posted by: Melodicmetal1 at May 08, 2014 06:08 AM (vGtnu)

30 "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Posted by: Zombie John Adams at May 08, 2014 06:08 AM (nCSwS)

31 Nothing happens to anyone. GOP is fundamentally unserious on all of these issues. But yeah, The Chicken doesn't really mind. Oh, and keep shitting on libertarians, that'll work out well, too. Who the eff needs allies, anyway.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:08 AM (TOb4i)

32 .....she's going to land a lucrative job with a progressive anti American agenda company....never to pay taxes on any income again........

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 06:08 AM (u8GsB)

33 i was sickeningly surprised ok i guess not really with who is in charge Now.that FBI had investigated and found nothing untowaard just mistakes Might have been made because well things happen when a big agency is doing its job. _wiki)

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:09 AM (nqBYe)

34 Make it easy Tar, feathers, rope, and a streetlight The founding fathers would've put an end to this a long time ago

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 08, 2014 06:09 AM (EoOgl)

35 this administration and agencies are truly acting like a crime syndicate and I think they will push all the constitutional crisis buttons because they don't recognize the authority of the people or this Congress to call them to account. Posted by: Yip at May 08, 2014 09:59 AM (/jHWN) It is my impression that Barry follows the "L'Ã‰TAT, C'EST MOI" ideology. He and his cronies, a shit they really do not give for what is the law. I keep saying this. The absolute number one DUTY of the next administration ought to be to put as many of this current administration in Prison and/or bankrupt them and drive them to suicide.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:10 AM (bb5+k)

36 Here's what's gonna happen next: -- forest fires! -- homosexual athletes! -- Republican scandal! -- school shooting! -- Philip Hoffman Seymour is still dead! -- Flight 370 is still missing! -- "special appearance" on a tv show by obama's big ugly wife!

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:10 AM (hIntH)

37 The DOJ needs a high colonic.

Posted by: BEL at May 08, 2014 06:10 AM (thLL8)

38 or fathers that dump their children to be free of responsibility. stir pot stir.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:10 AM (nqBYe)

39 for cripe's sakes Where's Ace?

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:11 AM (hIntH)

40 -- extreme weather!!

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:12 AM (hIntH)

41 "GOP is fundamentally unserious on all of these issues.
...Posted by: sock_rat_eez"

They are NOT unserious, they are complicit. They are fully part of this fraud and as such simply another gear in the machine of state tyranny. Of course I am speaking of the leadership and the party, not the individuals, yes there are some in the party that do stand for our rights, but they are too few and too powerless.

The GOP are not useless, they are as fully guilty as any of them.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 06:12 AM (NnjE8)

42 39
for cripe's sakes

Where's Ace?

Posted by: Soothsayer Â§ at May 08, 2014 10:11 AM (hIntH)

Are you kidding? It's before noon Eastern. Won't see Ace for another couple of hours at least.

Posted by: joncelli at May 08, 2014 06:12 AM (RD7QR)

43 -- unemployment rate is now officially: Awesome!

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:12 AM (hIntH)

44 Dont leave out the mothers that throw out the fathers and alienate their kids from them, all the while demanding child support. Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 10:07 AM (DrWcr) Not a trivial issue, but i'm not seeing a linkage to this behavior and Libertarian philosophy. My point is that Libertarians philosophy always leads to these paradoxical situations with victims.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:13 AM (bb5+k)

45 What's next? Lois Lerner meets BeyoncÃ© and they become fast friends.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 06:13 AM (EWsrI)

46 I hope everyone understands that this represents the absolute last gasp of the USA and the dream of our Republic. Will the congress lift this country from the depths to which it has fallen? Gangsters with utter contempt for everything the USA has stood for are now running things and they must be stopped. One senses that even speaker Boehner finally understands the gravity of the situation and will work tirelessly, against all odds, to get that amnesty bill passed.

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] An Observation at May 08, 2014 06:14 AM (ylhEn)

47 I hope president Palin uses the same powers Obama gave himself

Posted by: Navycopjoe at May 08, 2014 06:14 AM (HcEdR)

48 oh, and, of course this will happen next: -- yet another new poll shows more people like obamacare! and... -- obamacare proving to be a huge success!

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:14 AM (hIntH)

49 OK, so she found in "criminal contempt". The article I linked to this morning made no mention of that and it did say it would go to the DOJ which is what led me to believe it was not criminal contempt.

Criminal contempt of congress is supposed to go to the DC circuit w/o going through the DOJ. i.e. Holder

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 08, 2014 06:15 AM (T2V/1)

50 you know what bugs me about this also? what's left out Obama, Obama's lawyer, Axelrod, Durbin, Shulman, Schumer, Levin alll instigated this but Lerner is the only one sitting up there It is systemic use of govt agency to be used by the Progressives to harass and intimidate .

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:15 AM (nqBYe)

51 Also, as that article I linked to this morning on inherent contempt said, she can be jailed in the capitol jail on the say-so of congress alone.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at May 08, 2014 06:16 AM (T2V/1)

>>>Where's Ace?

Hangin' with Joe.

Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 06:16 AM (3ZtZW)

53 Issa is a clown. You know what Issa's gonna do next? The same f'n thing he's done since day one: put the scandal on the back-burner for another 2 months.

Posted by: Soothsayer § at May 08, 2014 06:16 AM (hIntH)

54 Oh, and keep shitting on libertarians, that'll work out well, too. Who the eff needs allies, anyway. Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 10:08 AM (TOb4i) The difference between Liberals and Libertarians is whether or not you want to get to national/societal destruction quickly or more gradually. I'm kinda thinking i'd rather avoid all the ugly by pointing out where Libertarian thinking is leading to the same result. But that requires them with eyes willing to see and ears willing to hear. But yeah, i'm sort of an asshole sometimes. Ace mentioned more than once that I start disruptive shit more often than he likes.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:17 AM (bb5+k)

55 "she can be jailed in the capitol jail on the say-so of congress alone.

Posted by: Vic"

They could do the same thing to Holder, and should.

Imagine for a second it was the Democrats in this position working against conservatives who they have found in contempt and refusing to move. What ends do you think they would stop at?

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 06:18 AM (NnjE8)

56 Hangin' with Joe. Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand? Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that gun in your hand?

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:18 AM (hIntH)

57 Soothsayer, I think you got it all there. Feel like posting that list next to the computer and checking them off as they roll by.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:18 AM (MmiWV)

>>>Libertarians philosophy always leads to these paradoxical situations with victims

?? Capital-L Libertarian is a political philosophy, not a social one.

Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 06:18 AM (3ZtZW)

59 "The law requires that the U.S. Attorney present the matter to a grand jury" Holder. If he'll stop the FBI from investigating Reid's corruption, he can stop this, depending on which mandarin - further up the organizational chart - might get screwed along the way. Id Holder doesn't get a dal from some big, or a threat from someone big, he might let this o through, depending on what advantage he can gain, if and when it does go through. Mebbe a few Pubbies just need their palms greased to make this go away? ...a few favors, perhaps? meanwhile, until the deals are made, we'll get lots of sound and fury and hand waving with sincere declaration of 'more in sorrow than in anger...' Yes, that's how corrupt the system is, these days. Find out who might benefit in a specific outcome before you run your analysis.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at May 08, 2014 06:18 AM (q6kaG)

60 30 "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Posted by: Zombie John Adams at May 08, 2014 10:08 AM (nCSwS) Many people are familiar with that statement, while remaining unfamiliar with the history and philosophy behind it. In other words, they don't really believe that, and aren't interested in being convinced that it's true.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:19 AM (bb5+k)

61 47 I hope everyone understands that this represents the absolute last gasp of the USA and the dream of our Republic. Will the congress lift this country from the depths to which it has fallen? Gangsters with utter contempt for everything the USA has stood for are now running things and they must be stopped. One senses that even speaker Boehner finally understands the gravity of the situation and will work tirelessly, against all odds, to get that amnesty bill passed.

Posted by: An Observation at May 08, 2014 10:14 AM (ylhEn)

*Golf clap* Extra points for being bitter and funny all at once.

Posted by: joncelli at May 08, 2014 06:19 AM (RD7QR)

62 What ends do you think they would stop at?

Sending mobs to their homes to harass and intimidate them would be the first move. Look what they did to the CEO's of banks and companies they didn't like.

Posted by: EC at May 08, 2014 06:19 AM (GQ8sn)

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Whew. Good thing the GOP is moral, amirite?

Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (3ZtZW)

64 "Civil case law has also held that a witness may make exculpatory statements without waiving the Fifth Amendment in the situation where the witness is both compelled to appear (i.e., the testimony is not voluntary) and the witness makes no incriminating statements prior to the waiver." But did she not previously admit that the IRS had violated Conservative groups' Civil Rights? Just because she said it was a mistaken IRS policy or procedure and didn't happen and she would never do it again and someone else did it and she never worked at the IRS it was her evil twin does not make it legal does it?

Posted by: Daybrother at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (1bNel)

65 Gabe, you are not in school anymore. The law is what people in power say it is. Consequences are what people in power say they are.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (EWsrI)

66 Right, someone mentioned the FBI as well. Since they have claimed no crime was committed, aren't they now complicit as well. For all intents and purposes they are now part of a cover-up. I hope someone can clean house on all these corrupt agencies. (haha, yeah right, who am I kidding?)

Posted by: Max Power at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (QCc6B)

67 Elijah Cummings has to be rubbing his hands together with glee. Probably doing a little evil cackling too. Only The Really, Really Stupid Party could get taken to school by Elijah fucking Cummings.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (7ObY1)

68 38 or fathers that dump their children to be free of responsibility. stir pot stir. Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 10:10 AM (nqBYe) Right!

Posted by: Wendy Davis at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (DrWcr)

69 EC, progressive union toads hardest hit when their leaders pass the no more than a few can assemble .

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:21 AM (nqBYe)

70 I saw Progressive Union Toads open for Guided by Voices, The Opera House, Toronto, 2002.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 06:22 AM (7ObY1)

71 What is next for her? 7 figure salary as the head of a liberal "watchdog" non-profit.

Posted by: blaster at May 08, 2014 06:23 AM (h7Onx)

72 Did you even notice that Benghazi is back on the back-burner? Of course not! Why not? Because you're so used to this pattern you don't even see it. It's all bullshit.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:24 AM (hIntH)

73 70 that the Union of Progressive Toads

Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 06:24 AM (3ZtZW)

74 ?? Capital-L Libertarian is a political philosophy, not a social one. Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 10:18 AM (3ZtZW) You think social and political can be separated? I'm not grasping this idea. Want to see a prime example of "Political" having horrendous "Social" consequences? Just look at LBJ's vote buying scheme (War on Poverty) which has kept Democrats mostly in power since the 1960s.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:24 AM (bb5+k)

75 i'm almost at the point where perhaps the best thing would be to not have any groups tax exempt status . Think Progressive groups would go for that? this whole thing is a joke, we have so many progressive political activists claiming status yet whatever.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:24 AM (nqBYe)

76 53
Issa is a clown.

You know what Issa's gonna do next? The same f'n thing he's done since day one: put the scandal on the back-burner for another 2 months.

Posted by: Soothsayer Â§ at May 08, 2014 10:16 AM (hIntH)

Try 5 months. Need to have it ready for the November elections.

Posted by: buzzion at May 08, 2014 06:25 AM (LI48c)

77 I saw Progressive Union Toads open for Guided by Voices, The Opera House, Toronto, 2002. Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 10:22 AM (7ObY1) or progressive union toads open for Uptwinkles at the state house.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:26 AM (nqBYe)

78 With all the focus on Lerner and Benghazi, what's going to happen with F&F? Because while 4 Americans were killed in Benghazi, hundreds of Mexicans and Americans were killed with Fast & Furious guns.

Posted by: Iblis at May 08, 2014 06:26 AM (U0ndG)

79 The other day some of you were all like: Yay, Trey Gowdy!! Go Trey!! Benghazi is already put back to sleep for a while.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:26 AM (hIntH)

80 So very, very wrong yet teh funneh. Patton Oswalt's Twitter-fu is pretty awesome. He trolls the Twittersphere apologizing for "offensive" Tweets he never actually wrote. Yeah, I believe he's an O-bot. Still funneh. Maybe even Horde-worthy. Patton Oswalt ✔ @pattonoswalt Follow The FUCK is wrong with me? Last Tweet deleted. The victims of the Holocaust deserve our highest respect, not penis limericks. 1:03 PM - 7 May 2014

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 06:27 AM (7ObY1)

81 There are two axioms one needs to apply in moments like this to help guide him or her onto the road to truth.

1) Never trust a woman named Michelle

2) Women who sport bangs are crazy and lie like the dickens.

Posted by: Fritz at May 08, 2014 06:27 AM (UzPAd)

82 Well, what I've peen pushing as a notion for a long time now is this idea that if you love the Constitutional basis of our nation, we are allies. If we lose that, we have lost everything, and anyone can see the water swirling now. Let's all just slack off on the issues that divide us and pull together for a while, to preserve our right to call each other babykillers and potheads in a free society.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:27 AM (MmiWV)

Someone quoted "sound and fury, signifying nothing" upthread.

I'm afraid that's it. I keep getting excited by Issa and teh Gowdy and nothing keeps happening.

But thanks, Gabe, for the elucidation. Knowing stuff is good.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 06:27 AM (JtwS4)

84 Team stupid could have bypassed the DOJ and holder. The fact they didn't means they don't really give a shit about this other than being able to raise money off of it. After holder finishes laughing he's going to take the pile of useless paper and whip his ass with it and file it away in a warehouse no to dissimilar from the warehouse at the end of Indiana Jones. Useless fucking party.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 08, 2014 06:27 AM (8tAEF)

85 Maybe it was Union-toed Progressives

Posted by: Bigby's Flappy Hands at May 08, 2014 06:28 AM (3ZtZW)

86 ace is in the woods getting acquainted with some trees......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 06:28 AM (u8GsB)

87 79 With all the focus on Lerner and Benghazi, what's going to happen with F&F? Because while 4 Americans were killed in Benghazi, hundreds of Mexicans and Americans were killed with Fast & Furious guns.

Posted by: Iblis at May 08, 2014 10:26 AM (U0ndG)

I have my top men on it...TOP. MEN.

Posted by: Chief D. Issa Bigspeak at May 08, 2014 06:28 AM (M+evy)

88
It's before noon Eastern. Won't see Ace for another couple of hours at least.
Posted by: joncelli

But before it's dark

He'll have every picnic basket that's in Jellystone Park.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 08, 2014 06:29 AM (kdS6q)

89 87 ace is in the woods getting acquainted with some trees...... Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 10:28 AM (u8GsB) Giving the term "lumberjack" a whole new meaning.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 06:29 AM (DrWcr)

90 Progressive toads listen to ELP's "Karn Evil 9" all the way through.

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 06:29 AM (7ObY1)

91 Insty has an item about Paul Ryan talking about Candy Crowely. Mr. Ryan is the GOP Jedi Knight that is going to destroy the Federal Empire.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 06:30 AM (EWsrI)

92 "What Happens Next For Lois Lerner?" http://tinyurl.com/kk6sm9p A man can dream.

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 06:30 AM (fWAjv)

93 With all the focus on Lerner and Benghazi, what's going to happen with F&F?

Posted by: Iblis at May 08, 2014 10:26 AM (U0ndG)

As Soothsayer said, it's squirrels all the way down.

Posted by: [/i]KG at May 08, 2014 06:30 AM (p7BzH)

94 81 So very, very wrong yet teh funneh. Patton Oswalt's Twitter-fu is pretty awesome. He trolls the Twittersphere apologizing for "offensive" Tweets he never actually wrote.

Yeah, I believe he's an O-bot. Still funneh. Maybe even Horde-worthy.

Patton Oswalt ✔ @pattonoswalt
Follow
The FUCK is wrong with me? Last Tweet deleted. The victims of the Holocaust deserve our highest respect, not penis limericks.
1:03 PM - 7 May 2014

Posted by: Citizen X at May 08, 2014 10:27 AM (7ObY1)

Probably more of a liberal than a progressive. After all he tweeted an agreement with a Mark Steyn article. And he was attacked for it. I do consider him to mostly be an annoying jackass though.

And I wonder how many tweet responses he's gotten from liberal fans denying the Holocaust.

Posted by: buzzion at May 08, 2014 06:30 AM (LI48c)

95 Megyn Kelly is gonna give it to obama on her tv show, and she's gonna give it to him real good.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (hIntH)

96 you know what bugs me about this also? what's left out Obama, Obama's lawyer, Axelrod, Durbin, Shulman, Schumer, Levin alll instigated this but Lerner is the only one sitting up there It is systemic use of govt agency to be used by the Progressives to harass and intimidate . Posted by: willow Absolutely true and if they are not investigated it is a good indicator that everything is business as usual: nudge nudge wink wink. Interestingly, guess who was at the White House the night of the Benghazi attack, arrived at 5:30 and left at Midnight.....Schumer.

Posted by: Daybrother at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (1bNel)

I disagree with those who think going after Lerner is a pointless exercise. The thing to do when facing off against hardcore, old-school, Leftist true believers is not to let up, to keep the pressure on, to come at them all the time from every possible angle. After all, that's what they do. This business of throwing up our hands and bewailing the uselessness of resistance is defeatist crap, loser talk.

Posted by: troyriser at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (gNlvW)

98 There are plenty of Libertarian principles that are sound and perfectly in tune with conservative notions of individual freedom, etc. But the "Libertarian" brand is not one I'd adopt these days. I don't know if different movements hijack Libertarian subgroups or what, but I see more about GMO's, Bitcoin, occasional forays into Alex Jones territory, etc. than I do issues that matter much more to me. I read/follow Reason online, some articles hit me right in the sweet spot, others I don't even bother finishing lest I be tempted to give up on the mag altogether.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (ZshNr)

As Soothsayer said, it's squirrels all the way down.

I am soo stealing that.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (JtwS4)

100 ~~Mr. Ryan Math is the ~~GOP~~ Jedi Knight that is going to destroy the Federal Empire. Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 10:30 AM (EWsrI)~~

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 06:31 AM (fWAjv)

101

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 06:32 AM (fWAjv)

102 A man can dream.

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 10:30 AM (fWAjv)

That should be our new flaming skull for any stories of progtards getting pwned.

Posted by: EC at May 08, 2014 06:32 AM (GQ8sn)

103

Why do I keep seeing the same recycled post from Gabe?

I'm with the other Morons who say ultimately this doesn't mean shit. It's a lovely philosophical exercise which is why dissecting it appeals to lawyers, but let's be real....Lerner isn't going to jail. She isn't going to lose her pension. She is a government official who corrupted her position, declined to answer to We The People about how she did her job, and will get away with it because it's easier to ignore and forget.

Writing lengthy tracts on the ins and outs of "contempt" mean precisely shit.

Posted by: @JohnTant at May 08, 2014 06:33 AM (eytER)

104 "Megyn Kelly is gonna give it to obama on her tv show, and she's gonna give it to him real good.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix"

Megyn Kelly would make a good robot.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 06:33 AM (NnjE8)

105 Megyn Kelly would make a good robot.

It'll come with a baby bump as standard.

Posted by: EC at May 08, 2014 06:34 AM (GQ8sn)

106 At least some of us still follow the laws. Of course we're kinda forced to... or they'll take our stuff... or put us in jail... or both.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 08, 2014 06:34 AM (BZAd3)

107 Sexbot. But first I'd de-activate her voice module.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:34 AM (hIntH)

108

But the "Libertarian" brand is not one I'd adopt these days.

Big-L Libertarian brand is tarnished. Potheads and Paulbots is the perception, fair or otherwise.

I advocate libertarian positions to move the Overton window in both parties toward a more freedom-embracing perspective. I have no particular love for the GOP.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 06:34 AM (JtwS4)

109 That should be our new flaming skull for any stories of progtards getting pwned. Posted by: EC at May 08, 2014 10:32 AM (GQ8sn) As long as I get royalties

It doesn't have the full effect without the effeminate screeching in it though.

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 06:35 AM (fWAjv)

110 Mencken time..duh duh..can't touch that... Fan the flames!

Posted by: Fewenuff at May 08, 2014 06:35 AM (zPNX5)

111 It doesn't have the full effect without the effeminate screeching in it though. Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 10:35 AM (fWAjv) YOUR SIGN IS FUCKING OFFENSIVE!!!!!!

Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 06:35 AM (DrWcr)

112 alright i see the cynicism inherent beczuse of the system. Yet what is the answer Let Lener go? do nothing at all? so what would that leave the people that are attempting to help the system function from the outside with actual power or drawing people in to have a voice?

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:35 AM (nqBYe)

113 It'll come with a baby bump as standard. Ha!

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:35 AM (hIntH)

114 eman.... did you forget the sarc tag? or do you really think that...... Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 10:34 AM (u8GsB)

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 06:36 AM (u8GsB)

115 do nothing at all? They're already doing nothing. We want them to do something.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:36 AM (hIntH)

116 Posted by: troyriser at May 08, 2014 10:31 AM (gNlvW) I think she should be gone after aggressively. In fact, I wouldn't mind if she went to the House prison for a time. I just think they won't go after her aggressively. But I do think it would be worthwhile to tell the Reps in Congress that she needs to be held accountable to the fullest degree.. I've called five Congrespeople over the last few days about other things; I'm just weary at the moment.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 08, 2014 06:36 AM (XyM/Y)

117 The contempt citation is issued under the current House. After the elections this year, we will have an entirely new House (100% newly elected). Because of that, one House cannot bind a subsequent House. If the contempt citation is not served by January 2015, does it become moot under the new House?

Posted by: I lurk, therefore I amn't at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (Lw8s7)

118 I don't disagree with that one bit, lincolntf; it happens on all sides. I'm just saying (to both sides) l want to save the basis so we can continue having having the discussion/argument/hurling of insults. Few more years, it's all gone. "If we do not hang together, we will assuredly all hang separately."

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (MmiWV)

119 noodles

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix § at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (hIntH)

120 Megyn Kelly would make a good robot.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 10:33 AM (NnjE

I think women are lucky a robot isn't merely defined as requiring batteries.

Or that an unbalanced washing isn't a robot.

Otherwise that 1 in 5 number would be way way too low.

And you're welcome willow

Posted by: buzzion at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (LI48c)

121 LoneStar Heeb, i've tried to follow the law because i thought it kept us a civil society with respect for others lives. I find it harder at this point to swallow the 'for others' when they are slapping us silly and threatening us from the top on down to the bottom feeder.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (nqBYe)

122 If I could just get my hands on one of those fake Ruling Class id cards. Lotta bennies with one of those things. Prolly use it to vote with, too.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 08, 2014 06:37 AM (BZAd3)

123 Does the House actually have a prison in the basement ? Pix ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:38 AM (MmiWV)

124 "We want them to do something.

Posted by: Soothsayer Hendrix"

Everything we hear is theater, that's all. Nothing will be done until they are forced to do something, and I don't see that happening.

We are pretty much fucked. That's why I'm starting to think about building a robot factory.

Posted by: Simon White-Thatch Potentloins at May 08, 2014 06:38 AM (NnjE8)

125 What was the Whitewater woman jailed for? Was that for not testifying or did she perjure herself? Susan McDougal?

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 08, 2014 06:38 AM (ZshNr)

126 buzzion, blast it all, adds to the list.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:38 AM (nqBYe)

127 Here's a question: is Lois Lerner and her army of idiot army of legal representatives worth all the trouble for the DOJ and the Obama administration? Most likely not. My guess is that they will "cooperatively" drag their feet on this process until election winds sale in their direction. I'm guessing this entire thing will go away and Lois will get to keep her undeserved retirement. Either that, or someone will make her a deal to keep her big stupid mouth closed.

Posted by: Wendy at May 08, 2014 06:38 AM (KydDZ)

128 "If we do not hang together, we will assuredly all hang separately." Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 10:37 AM (MmiWV) and this is true.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:39 AM (nqBYe)

129 Yet what is the answer Let Lener go?
do nothing at all?

so what would that leave the people that are attempting to help the system function from the outside with actual power or drawing people in to have a voice?

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 10:35 AM (nqBYe)

Well, some such people tried.... with the only weapon left in the arsenal, the shutdown. But that just won't do because it upsets the gravy train that both parties are on.

Since nothing can really be done without the cooperation of the Dems, and given that the Dems will not agree to anything that pleases us, then nothing *can* be done that furthers our interests. Except refusing to play the game, but we've seen how *they* take that.

Posted by: [/i]KG at May 08, 2014 06:39 AM (p7BzH)

130 @104 All you need to know is that scooter Libby did 18 months in fed prison for committing no crime while sandy burger got a tap in the wrist for stealing and destroying documents from the national archives. John Corzine stole a billion dollars and nothing happened to him, Ramesh ponnuru is facing serious charges for Mickey Mouse campaign finance improprieties. System is rigged against us and team stupid is onboard.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 08, 2014 06:39 AM (8tAEF)

131 Giving the term "lumberjack" a whole new meaning. Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 10:29 AM (DrWcr) "I'm a lumberjack and I don't care..."

Posted by: Iblis at May 08, 2014 06:40 AM (U0ndG)

132 Using the powers of the state to silence and direct public opinion and policy, those powers we all know eventually lead directly to violence - guns and lots and lots of guns. --- I don't know that we've ever had a time when the press deliberately misinforms the public and shills for the government to enable and advance the tyranny. That and around half of the public is just fine with what the government is doing to us. A corrupt government can be changed. What do you do with a corrupt people?

Posted by: whoever at May 08, 2014 06:41 AM (pjMym)

133 Past the 100 mark. Since I'm late to the game this morning, and missed the early threads, I will mention that it is the 69th anniversary of VE Day. And, add this: "The beaten foe emerged. All over the broad Atlantic, wherever they had been working or lying hid, the U-boats surfaced, confessing the war's end. A few of them, prompted by determination or struck by guilt, scuttled or destroyed themselves, or ran for shelter, not knowing that there was none; but mostly they did what they had been told to do, mostly they hoisted their black surrender flags, and stayed where they were, and waited for orders. They rose, dripping and silent, in the Irish Sea, and at the mouth of the Clyde, and off the Lizard in the English Channel, at the top of the Minches where the tides raced; they rose near Iceland, where Compass Rose was sunk and off the north-west tip of Ireland, and close to the Faeroes, and on the Gibraltar run where the sunk ships lay so thick, and near St. Johns and Halifax and in the deep of the Atlantic, with three thousand fathoms of water beneath their keel. They surfaced in secret places, betraying themselves and their frustrated plans: they rose within sight of land, they rose far away in mortal waters, where on the map of the battle, the crosses that were the sunken ships were etched so many and so close that the ink ran together. They surfaced above their handiwork, in hatred or in fear, sometimes snarling their continued rage, sometimes accepting thankfully a truce they had never offered to other ships, other sailors. They rose, and lay wherever they were on the battlefield, waiting for the victors to claim their victory." - Nicolas Monsarrat("V.E. Day," from The Cruel Sea)

Posted by: Mike Hammer at May 08, 2014 06:41 AM (aDwsi)

134 YOUR SIGN IS FUCKING OFFENSIVE!!!!!! Posted by: Insomniac at May 08, 2014 10:35 AM (DrWcr) Deranged liberal incoherence attack commence!!

Posted by: RWC at May 08, 2014 06:41 AM (fWAjv)

135 Sooth, they are doing somthing. is it enough? call me cynical, i am not convinced, still if we let this go now when should it be brought bak to life? we cannot ignore that this is allowed. o happened or their constant use of govt agencies like epa, osha, irs, to intimidate half the population. i am unhappy this is dragging along. i do have an inkling it is BS, but srsly what is the answer to this?

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:42 AM (nqBYe)

136 1. Lois Lerner will never suffer any consequences. 2. The Republicans will be painted by the media as extremist. 3. The DOJ won't do its job. 4. Now that the precedent has been established it will become more common for the IRS to audit political opponents. Have a nice day.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at May 08, 2014 06:42 AM (l3vZN)

137 I find it harder at this point to swallow the 'for others' when they are slapping us silly and threatening us from the top on down to the bottom feeder. Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 10:37 AM (nqBYe) Really makes ya feel like a chump. At least I do. When the housing industry went south, I felt the same way when all of the people who were essentially rewarded for their irresponsibility. I felt like an idiot for continuing to be responsible.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 08, 2014 06:42 AM (BZAd3)

138 KG can't argue or disagree with anything you just said. sigh. we're fkd aren't we?

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:43 AM (nqBYe)

139 And to the Banana Republic, for which it stands.

Posted by: --- at May 08, 2014 06:43 AM (MMC8r)

140 Yeah, I see Libertarian and Republican both as not just tarnished but full out corroded brands, wouldn't want to call myself either one.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 08, 2014 06:44 AM (MmiWV)

141 i guess i am indeed one of those that say ," please OMG do something"

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:44 AM (nqBYe)

142 Wasn't she wishcasting in an email about applying for an opening with Obama's super PAC Organizing for Assholes?

Posted by: Brass Bancroft at May 08, 2014 06:45 AM (RHLfG)

143 LoneStarHeeb, uh hmm, and also dislike the feeling that i'm now an outsider in the country i was raised in. but i guess 'even' America is not immune.

Posted by: willow at May 08, 2014 06:47 AM (nqBYe)

144 The IRS has been doing Rove's work. God's work.
The Pugs will do nothing with this.

Posted by: BEL at May 08, 2014 06:48 AM (thLL8)

145 Now if we had leaders with balls, their response should be to wipe out the IRS, and seriously cut the DOJ's budget. They can even give DOJ funds back to state law enforcement to stifle cries of " Crime will run rampant!"

Posted by: Iblis at May 08, 2014 06:49 AM (U0ndG)

146 Just in case, nood.

Posted by: [/i]KG at May 08, 2014 06:49 AM (p7BzH)

147 What happens next? I'm thinking "CHAINED HEAT 4: THE TAXMAN COMETH"

Posted by: Todd Bridges, first to go bad, last to go down at May 08, 2014 06:52 AM (JOFI1)

148 >>Did you even notice that Benghazi is back on the back-burner? How is Benghazi on the back burner? People here have been calling for a select committee with subpoena power for months and now we have it. Doesn't seem like back burner to me.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 08, 2014 06:54 AM (g1DWB)

149 Big-L Libertarian brand is tarnished. Potheads and Paulbots is the perception, fair or otherwise. I advocate libertarian positions to move the Overton window in both parties toward a more freedom-embracing perspective. I have no particular love for the GOP. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 10:34 AM (JtwS4) "Words" are about the only thing defined by consensus.

Posted by: D-Lamp at May 08, 2014 06:55 AM (bb5+k)

150 And on top of all of this happy horseshit, there's this: http://tinyurl.com/m2myjxx I really don't believe that I have within me the capacity to convey how this breaks my heart.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 08, 2014 06:58 AM (BZAd3)

151 Consumption tax. There is no way to have a federal department which reviews everyones' income that cannot be perverted. Institute a national sales tax and close the doors of the IRS.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at May 08, 2014 07:04 AM (ZkzmI)

152 Big-L Libertarian brand is tarnished. Potheads and Paulbots is the perception, fair or otherwise. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at May 08, 2014 10:34 AM (JtwS4) You could be right, and I don't want to start an argument, but I don't believe that Libertarianism is ruined. Potheads and Paulbots are an example of the unfortunate consequences of liberty. Just like corruption and entitlement are consequences of our present system. There is a price to everything. Liberty comes with a price and it is personal responsibility instead of an unworkable construct of government enforced responsibility where the responsible pay for the irresponsibility of the irresponsible. They pay for everything else as well.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 08, 2014 07:05 AM (BZAd3)

153 Right, someone mentioned the FBI as well. Since they have claimed no crime was committed, aren't they now complicit as well[?] --- All of government that actually affects people is in the Executive Branch. (If Congress passes a law and the Executive refuses to enforce it, effectively it doesn't exist.) All of it is under central control by the White House. All of government is complicit in these crimes. We're beginning to see just how fragile our system was.

Posted by: whoever at May 08, 2014 07:05 AM (pjMym)

154 No one cares, rednecks. She was chosen by the correct persons and did what she was told, exactly as planned. Progress takes care of its own.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 08, 2014 07:15 AM (9ls8w)

155 How much of a dumb racist RethugliKKKan do you have to be to think you will ever lay a finger on our wise multiracial President? The system is stacked entirely against your kind.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at May 08, 2014 07:18 AM (9ls8w)

156 Knotty trees...

Posted by: Fewenuff at May 08, 2014 07:25 AM (zPNX5)

157 Who in the Holy Ckuf cares about this loser shit?!?!? OUR CKUFING GIRLS ARE GONE! WHERE ARE THE GIRLS IN NIGERIA?!?!?!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 08, 2014 07:39 AM (oFCZn)

158 115 eman.... did you forget the sarc tag? or do you really think that...... Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 10:34 AM (u8GsB) Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at May 08, 2014 10:36 AM (u8GsB) The sarc tag needed would not fit on the page.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 07:57 AM (EWsrI)

159 158 Who in the Holy Ckuf cares about this loser shit?!?!? OUR CKUFING GIRLS ARE GONE! WHERE ARE THE GIRLS IN NIGERIA?!?!?! Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 08, 2014 11:39 AM (oFCZn) I kinda want to send 10000 Marines into Nigeria to find those girls and feed their tormentors to the hyenas. Lots of A-10s and Apaches sitting around doing nothing these days.

Posted by: eman at May 08, 2014 08:00 AM (EWsrI)

160 "Lassie!" cried little Timmy as the Rattlesnake drove his fangs deep into his trapped leg at the bottom of the dry well where he had tripped and fallen while chasing a ball. "Lassie - go get help - I'm dying."

So Lassie went for help - managing to avoid the Dog Catcher, the EPA and OSHA officials who wanted to cite her for improperly filled out paper work which endangered the Desert Toad and for not wearing an approved safety helmet and not using a regulation doggy safety seat while riding in automobiles.

Finally Lassie got to Timmy's parents house but no one was home. Lassie ran back to the well and dived in. She fought the rattler, and despite receiving mortal wounds killed it. She crawled over to her dying friend and licked his cheek.

Timmy stirred from his stupor and with dying gasp said "I know you did your best girl, thank you, and do you know if amnesty passed?"

"Rut the Ruck" said Lassie.

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] An Observation at May 08, 2014 08:03 AM (ylhEn)

161 >>(4) Lerner has indicated that a crime occurred. There have been some suggestions that Lerner is "innocent until proven guilty" and that we cannot take a negative inference from her invocation of the Fifth Amendment. This is false. It is entirely appropriate to take a negative inference from someone invoking the Fifth in civil proceedings or before Congress. She had no reason to do so unless she believed a crime had been committed. We can take Lerner at her word when she indicated that she believes a crime had been committed.<< Gabe, that strikes me as false. You are entitled to cite the Fifth when you perceive a potential liability for a criminal penalty if you give an answer. The historic origins of the freedom from self-incrimination are the Englishmen who refused to answer King Charles or Cromwell because they would be punished whatever they said. Despite our President there is clearly evidence that some crime has been committed -- the publication of donor tax information by Media Matters -- but it is false and dangerous to say that claiming the Fifth is testimony "in her own words" that there has been a crime.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at May 08, 2014 11:49 AM (5xmd7)

162 If the persons holding the two primary enforcement positions in government do not enforce the law, there is a problem. When one political entity takes control of the national bureaucracy we have a problem. When at least 10% of the people in a country have proof that government and it's bureaucracy are actively trying to destroy their rights and persons you will soon have a violent revolution. I pray that we may be able to step back from that abyss. The first American Civil War resulted in 1/20th of the population dead or wounded; a second American Civil War will probably kill 1/5 th of us.

Posted by: Barry Teller at May 09, 2014 04:42 AM (gjDru)

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