1 Nope...gotta go with Cooke and Gabe.

Says so right here in the AoSHQ Style Guide.

2 Cooke is a namby-pamby. Sure he sounds good on the podcast, money maker that it is.

3 You just don't understand politics little person. Back to the fields with you.

4 While researching Mars Attacks and Slim Whitman I found this version of Indian Love Call featuring Fauxcohontas Elizabeth Warren. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWbrtzCb0HE

5

Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread!  Friday is here and all is well!

 

How's it going with you guys?  It's swell here in Michigan.

6 Dammit Bannion, that's my problem I don't have a copy of the style guide. Once again, I find myself aligned with DrewM about 99%. We need more of his worthy comments instead of the well, ya know.

7 It's all theater - false outrage, indignation. 


Pyramid schemes work because those towards the top of the pyramid want to keep things going.  If you could have anything you wanted, anytime you wanted plus, if you had plenty to show your fake ass magnanimity, would you want the shit to change?

There is a good reason why most of the highest wage growth areas in the country surround D.C.  That is the top of the pyramid.

This shit will not end.  It's too good for them even to contemplate giving up.

8 How's it going with you guys? It's swell here in Michigan. Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 10:12 AM (hLRSq)

"Swell"  or "Swollen"??

9 The Eskimos have 50 words for snow. The GOPs have 50 words for surrender. The liberals have 50 words for pervert.

10 I love the smell of bronchitis in the morning. It smell like ... a Z-Pac. But even in my current low-voiced, pseudo-Barry White state, I can post "Fuck You GOPe" with vim and vigor. Give 'em hell Horde.

11 9 How many words does the GOP have for this is not the hill to die on?

12 And I thought our lefty "betters" were assholes. Seems to be some kind of competition.

13 "In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. " "Political reality" is whatever you force it to be. Did the Gay activists accept the political reality of no homosexuals allowed in the military? If you capitulate to the other side's premises, you are agreeing to concede the argument. If you DEMAND that your side win, then you are shaping the political reality. Intransigence is the correct response when you happen to be right.

14 13 "In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. " That's straight up bullshit.

15 So the argument is: the opportunity to win control of the Senate is more important than standing on principle. I can see the merit of the argument; I can even see the playing for the long haul. So, that being the case, let's examine what the GOP leadership does when they have the power....not exactly a sterling record. SO the options being provided seem to be 1) give up on trying to use the debt ceiling to control spending, and 2) if the GOP wins control of the Senate, continue to yield on principle.

16 "Swell" or "Swollen"??

Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (6T8Ay)

 

*checks self*

 

No swellings or discolorations.  That's good.

 

It's Friday and all is going well right now.  I know I should be wary because that means fate is setting me up for something unpleasant, but I think I'll just be happy for the meantime.

 

 

*gets up to practice Snoopy happy-dance, falls over due to general clumsiness*

17 Personally, I try to leave politics to the politicians. I focus on what America should do. I think America should not raise the debt ceiling. I oppose abolishing the debt ceiling. I think we should instead abolish the debt. I support immigration reform that does not include mass citizenship of any kind. And I generally favor the government doing more to protect people's rights, and doing less redistribution.

Tactics are for the people on the front lines. My goal is to make good ideas popular enough that both parties will pretend to have always supported them.

18 Who thinks that Sodom and Gomorrah had fifty flavors of pervert?

19 >>>Someone and some group of people are going to have to make it worth the while of the GOP to do that. Math will do it.

20 This shit will not end. It's too good for them even to contemplate giving up. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (BZAd3) Yes, the governance has allowed self serving interest to become the unstated guiding principle of those who feed at the trough. They don't give a rip about the long term consequences to the rest of the nation.

21

>>>""Political reality" is whatever you force it to be."

I want to take the Tea Party wing seriously but this idea of "We don't need 'control of the government' or anything, we'll just Will to Power our ideas into law" is absolutely insane.

22 Moar Cruz. And Lee. If we send more "bomb throwers" (as McVain called them) we can change the environment surrounding. The go along, get along establishment GOP'ers. Expectations are today that they won't rock the boat, that being true especially if they are in the majority because the "people" expect the Republicans to "govern". Well, no asshats, we expect you to make government smaller and less intrusive and unless we think you will do that you aren't going to get elected to shit.

23 Intransigence is the correct response when you happen to be right. Posted by: D-Lamp +1

24 I think I'd prefer 100 Forrest Gumps in the Senate over what we have now.

25 Did any of these clowns play organized sports?  Do they not understand the value of a consistent message, of encouraging their troops, maintaining esprit de corp, etc.?  You need an energized base, you don't get your kids to play hard in the second half when you punt on second down the whole first half - coach.  Giving the President a win while he's playing golf is insane, drag something out of him, a statutory increase in greens fees at Andrews, anything.

When do the Dims ever piss on their base, even in the more egregious red herring situations - late term abortion, SSDI fraud, union thuggery, etc. Show me an example, other then NAFTA and Immigration - in which the unions are trying to play the long game at the expense of their current members.

26 Now we live in a post math paradigm, what difference does it make?

27 At this point, what difference does it make? Oppose the debt ceiling, support the sequester. Really? We're +17 trillion dollars in debt, have unfunded liabilities in SS and State pensions that cannot be paid, yet here we go, tilting at windmills, calling each other silly names. Illinois, California are actually broke. A couple of more states are getting close. A bunch of cities and towns are functionally bankrupt. But yeah, that Tea Party. Those fuckers. So emotional and stuff. Thinking they can make some kind of last stand effort to save the country. It's gonna be Thunderdome pretty soon, but so what?

28 Drew, as a corollary to your argument, I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts? The lesson they draw when you do that, when you cut them absolutely no slack when they try to go along with you, is "these people won't support me no matter what, so I should just ignore them."

29 Charles is correct that defeating the debt ceiling hike was a losing game for the GOP.



How do we know this?  They never even try to defeat these things.  It's all Kabuki theater.  I have given up on the GOP establishment (i.e.leadership)


I will vote in the upcoming primary in order to try to get RINO Graham out but probably will not after that.  It will be the first election I have missed since getting out of the Navy in 1977.


I don't have a Party anymore.

30 Oh and for the debt ceiling.... ...how come the game is set spending to bust the debt ceiling, then whine when the ceiling is reached? Enough. Is. Enough.

31 Lay back and think of "political wins."* *Political wins is another expression for, "the people are going to get ass raped."

32
Nope...gotta go with Cooke and Gabe.Says so right here in the AoSHQ Style Guide.
Posted by: Sean Bannion




In a larger sense, isn't Christine O'Donnell really to blame?

33 " At this moment itÂ’s easier to be just a little less liberal than the Democrats to win votes but that doesnÂ’t actually move the ball in the proper direction for conservatives." Here's my objection. I'm not worried about the GOP placating "conservatives," I'm worried about them doing what is fricking right for the country. Damn it, we are royally fucking over our children and this go-along-to-get-along shit is speeding up the impending crash that we all know is coming. And, as Drew pointed out above, the GOP track record from when they were the majority in DC gives me zero confidence that they are going to do the right thing if they win filibuster-proof majorities in both houses and the presidency. That's why people like me are pissed at this political football shit. Because these assholes have demonstrated time and time again that they are the Capitol Party (thank you, Ace) and are only interested in what's perceived to be good for DC and their own pocketbooks and fuck the rest of us Unpeople out here in Jesusland (thank you, AtC).

34 I want to take the Tea Party wing seriously but this idea of "We don't need 'control of the government' or anything, we'll just Will to Power our ideas into law" is absolutely insane. Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (9qDRl) This statement is a strawman. Political reality begins with shaping the culture and promulgating ideas. Again I use the example of the normalization of homosexuality. You create propaganda, (Will and Grace, Glee) and then you use it on the population. Eventually it steers the electorate in the direction you want to go. No body is talking about "willing our ideas into law", I am pointing out that every effort must begin by a force of will, and a determination to fight.

35 They should just cut a hole in the debt ceiling.

36 Ack! Mr. Cooke, you don't stand up for your principles only at times when you think you can win! You do it every time or they ain't worth a rat's ass. The GOP leadership is governed by fear. Fear that they could lose what they have. So, they run along the walls and pause now and then wary of cats. Oh, look! A scrap! Nom nom nom. Ted Cruz and the TEA Party are working to change political reality, not work within it.

37 I'll just take Paul Ryan's plan to zero out the deficit by 2075. That there is some epic can kicking that even the weakest kneed GOPer can get behind.
 
And if a few unexpected emergencies come along and mess up the plan, well, shit happens.
 
Cooke's position on this isn't much different than ace's; that our GOP leaders are mostly doing the best that they can given the current political realities.
 
It's just that I don't accept that that is the only reality.

38 Oh look. It remains us vs. Big Government.

39 I'm not going to argue with the Tories anymore. I'm just going to do what I think is right. And look out for me and mine. While it burns.

40 Hey, it's a puny 2.5 trillion moe in debt in two years. No biggie. A losing game. McConnell and the rest of the math challenged Mandarins need a lesson. And that lesson is get the hell out. After all, when came to moments like the debt ceiling vote--how is he functionally different from a Democrat? I'll wait on the answer.

41 I don't have a Party anymore. Posted by: Vic That's small beans. We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down.

42 Rand Paul said on Beck yesterday that he didn't think the GOP would win again in his lifetime unless they fundamentally change. I've got to agree. What has the GOP done to earn my vote? I would take no pleasure in the fact that I'm now getting screwed by a guy with a G after his name instead of a D.

43 Why don't they just give everyone a Trillion dollars? That would stimulate the economy.

44
Just keep kicking that can down the cul-de-sac.

45 I suppose that we can hope that some exotic quantum theory of relativity where there is no reality is in force and nothing is as it seems.

Otherwise, $18 trillion in debt and $127 trillion in unfunded obligations, and nothing being done to rein in spending, is probably not sustainable. 


When Clinton was president, interest on the national debt was seven times higher than it is under this contrived fiscal policy.  If interest rates ever again return to being market based, we are truly and terminally fucked.

Doing nothing because nothing can be done, is exactly what got us here.  But one has to admit; it's good for some.

46 Someone take the Meth out of the coffee at the HQ. The cobogs are running wild!

47 2014 is still a base election, right.   Fire and brimstone - bring it.  Make Zombie Curtis Le May blush, shock Cheney.  Accommodation, Mr Chamberlain and Mr Quisling won't get me to the polls - much less get me to drive others to the polls.

48 In a larger sense, isn't Christine O'Donnell really to blame? Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix That is really the root cause, isn't it? Because Mike Castle would have made all the difference. But maybe we did need a witch in the Senate? Especially since Hillary left and was Sec of State.

49 We simply don't have access to what's going on behind the curtain. For example, I don't think it's a coincidence that immigration reform was tabled a few days ago. There are behind-the-scenes negotiations by the party leaders who will attempt to seek concessions on one bill in exchange for concessions on a completely different bill. Sort of like JFK giving away European missiles in exchange for no nukes in Cuba.

What we can do, as part of the electorate, is focus on making good ideas popular enough that opposing them comes at a political cost. Politicians don't care about what's good for America. The political system works because it empowers politicians who do what's popular, even though they're not doing it for the right reasons.

It's up to us to decide what's popular enough for politicians to pretend that they really care about it.

50 36 Ack! Mr. Cooke, you don't stand up for your principles only at times when you think you can win! ---------------------- Agree. That's why they have to say shit like: "...reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. "

51
   "What shall it profit a man....."

    Why it will profit him the WORLD.

     And there you have the rationale.

52 Excuse the OT so early but as there's no morning news dump and I'm out the door to work... the sock link tells why there's been so much flooding in England after the 'global warming' record rainfall.

England's EPA, envirotards and EU regulations have stopped the regional farming area's from dredging the area's rivers as they done for centuries since Charles I first started the marshes being drained so the outlet rivers are all silted up.

And to be on-topic: English Canada went for a new truly-conservative party when the old Progressive Conservative party showed they were the same Quebec Liberals as the 'real' Liberals. Wiki the 'Reform Party of Canada' and its linked threads for the story. Maybe it'll give you some third party or reforming the GOP ideas?

53 It's always chapped me that Congress can't even zero out the budget deficit.  WTF?   Cfuk balancing the budget in 10 years. Balance it THIS year.  Oh, no, we HAVE to overspend. That's the WAY IT WORKS.

54 For fuck's sake, Mr. Cooke thing do you think we're new?   Did all of prior political history up to this point simply not happen?


Weren't we told in 2011, by nearly all of the same people who are now patting me on the top of head and telling me not to worry about it, that the debt limit had to be raised but don't worry we'll cut spending and we'll hold the line, serious you guys, just this one last time and never again?


What about 1986 and amnesty and the complete and total and solemn assurances that the border would be secured and we would never, ever, ever be in this place again?

What about Olympia Snowe hearing the call of history?

Here's a hint, Mr. Cooke, the reason why I don't believe The Establishment is because they are fucking liars.   Complete and total fucking liars and it is an insult to your intelligence to act as if I am the insane fool for thinking that.  

I do not trust Our Betters because they are untrustworthy.  


I do not believe they will hold to their convictions because they do not do so when push comes to shove.


I do not think it is a sign of political naivete to note that at every turn the deeply held concerns of the base are not only not advanced but actively shat upon.


I do think that the only one here who displays an utter lack of comprehension of reality is you, Mr. Cooke.   If a person or entity lies to me over and over and over and over and over again, I am entitled to reach the conclusions that said person or entity is an untrustworthy liar.

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus exists for a reason, after all.  

55 The GOP Leadership is spineless. Remember when we had all house, senate and presidency. They whimped out at every turn, it was the gang of 7 that was the final straw for me. You had the power and you let the dems walk all over you. You have 1 house now and you let the dems walk all over you. Why, why should I trust you to do what is right?

56 This Slim Whitman music is kind of growing on me.

57 Imagine a third party just strong enough to rock both the GOP and dems back on their electoral heels, with a "we work for you, the voter, not for the circus inside the beltway." message. I'd vote for that sort of disruption. And, yeah, I know it's a fantasy, so don't bother snarkily reminding me it is.

58 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (RFeQD) That.

59 I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts? Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:21 AM (9qDRl) I suspect you are too young to remember Tip O'neill. (Chris Mathews was his assistant.) His standard methodology was "FUCK THE REPUBLICANS. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT THEY WANT." Being a stubborn sonofabitch works. We have plenty of historical precedent to demonstrate this. Now contrast that with our leaderships mindset of "let's not offend the Democrats." Fuck the Democrats. I don't give a shit what they want. The only thing worse are those people who think they ought to mollify them.

60 I've been watching the leaders of both parties flip-flop on issues depending on who holds the White House for nearly half a century now.

If the GOP wins in 2016 the Democrats will suddenly be against military action, the imperial executive and domestic spying again like they were 5 years ago.

The only time both parties agree on anything it has to do with lining their own pockets.

61 Remember when they fired all the Tea Party Committee Chairmen?

62 A couple of other points on my position:


1.  I am not so much against the debt ceiling hike (which this wasn't, it was a debt ceiling elimination) as I am against the fact that they rolled over completely without demanding ANYTHING in return.  It was complete surrender.


2,  The GOP leadership has already demonstrated that they do not give a damn for conservatives and just as soon kicked them out of the Party.


3.  The GOP leadership has also demonstrated their disdain for a bedrock principle of Republicans for decades called "the rule of law" when they pushed for amnesty even while the rank and file were totally against it.


IOW FK the GOP Leadershp.

63 >Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus exists for a reason, after all.

Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (Gk3SS)<

Ahhhh, there we go.  Fresh blueberry scone my liege?

64 Is that Latin?

65 And, as Drew pointed out above, the GOP track record from when they were the majority in DC gives me zero confidence that they are going to do the right thing if they win filibuster-proof majorities in both houses and the presidency. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 14, 2014 10:23 AM (qFpRI) Concur.

66 Basically, what is being argued here is that the best tactic is to go along with rearranging the deck chairs because warning about the iceberg isn't politically expedient, and changing course to avoid the iceberg is an untenable, extremist positionsn. Playing politics is a lot easier to justify when you pretend there aren't really any serious problems facing the country. Oh, well... Debt ceiling fight over. Blank check to Obama given. Now, on to amnesty.

67 I do think that the only one here who displays an utter lack of comprehension of reality is you, Mr. Cooke. If a person or entity lies to me over and over and over and over and over again, I am entitled to reach the conclusions that said person or entity is an untrustworthy liar. Posted by: alexthechick He is paid (Cooke) and his rice bowl is filled to write this intellectual pablum. Some people believe it, others, not so much. What's in your wallet?

68

Please explain the loud and public trashing of conservatives & the Tea Party by Boehner and McConnell and how this fits in with the Establishment's brilliant strategy to win elections in 2014 and 2016.

They don't vote the way we want, they don't present a practical, coherent plan to the public on how they plan to reform government and they publicly trash us in the media - yet we're supposed to believe they'll suddenly represent our interests if only we vote them into power, right? It seems they despise us and have worked very hard to remove every congressman that represents our interests from committees of power and threatened and bullied the conservative members of congress.

And yet we're supposed to applaud them and think they're doing the right thing to get back in power. So please, how does the establishment deserve praise for depressing votes from the base. Because I, for one, see no reason to work the polls, GOTV or even vote for people who despise me.

69

 

Hello from Sydney and I'm watching some cricket -Aussies v South Africa at 2.30am Sat morning

 

I've been reading up about your political system and taking note of some pretty big differences between our way and yours - in the past I've mainly concentrated on cultural differences like why do you all tip people and why can't I buy Vegemite when I'm in the US....

 

 

The Republicans have a House of Reps majority but not in the Senate?

 

 

Same here but we now have a conservative PM because the Liberals (Conservatives) won the general election last September and so chose the Prime Minister from the House of Representatives -  although they do not have a Senate majority

 

 

There are some here who push for making OZ a republic but after seeing the horror story of Obama I'm sure most thoughtful people here would think twice before having a popularly elected President - the last push for a republic was soundly defeated a few years ago in a referendum

 

Then again all we see except on a few conservative sites is how lovely Mrs Obama is and what a wonderful President her hubby is....

And they're friends with Beyoncé !!!! And Oprah !!!!

 

 

70 Principles are like underwear. They should be changed regularly.

71 I are jus too stoopid to unnerstan politicks an how it werks.

72 They downed the ball to get a time out through the elections. Yes, it's a non-conservative move, but it's where they were going to wind up anyway and avoids making the headlines about HIP obstructionism.

73 Venezuela is our future. I don't actually believe anything I can do will change that, but I'll be damned if I'll embrace it.

74 We solved all that deficit spending business back in the '70s. It's over now. Move on.

75 I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts?

Posted by: Paul

If you recall, they bent over like cheap sluts in the end.  I was down at the WW2 memorial, I had a pair of linemen dikes in my pocket.  If Boehner had shown up,  I would have handed them to him - lets see the fascist bastards arrest the Speaker of the House.

76 GOP, not HIP.

77 73 I better get some more TP.

78 Principles are like underwear. They should be changed regularly. Quit swapping them with the guy across the aisle from you!

79 the classic blunder, DrewM .. no, not getting into a land war in Asia or going up against a Sicilian when death is on the line .. conflating Conservative and GOP. . McConnell is no conservative, he's a bare-knuckles Kentucky politician .. which is great if he'd deploy those bare knuckles in support of conservative positions, which he does too infrequently. . It's time for him to go. . Mew

80 Ahhhh, there we go. Fresh blueberry scone my liege?
Posted by: Muad'dib at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (sjdRT)


*nosewrinkle*   I hate blueberries.  

81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly .

82 >>>We simply don't have access to what's going on behind the curtain. For example, I don't think it's a coincidence that immigration reform was tabled a few days ago. You are right. They are smelling victory in the Senate and will wait until then ram amnesty 2.0 down our throats.

83 The debt ceiling is just a symptom. Unless entitlement spending is scaled back than America will, by definition, keep adding more debt. Regardless of what the official "debt ceiling" is. The problem isn't the debt ceiling. The problem is the spending. The debt ceiling has been proven to have basically zero effect on actual spending.

84 **Slides ATC a big ol' hunk of chocolate cake**

85 Related, becasue here is what the current rapacious federal government unleashes via its diktats... "The nationÂ’s most populous state has elected to temporarily shutter its new online health insurance marketplace for small business only four months after it launched, dealing yet another blow to a key element of the health care law meant to lower costs for employers." Full link over at Insty.

86 Drew: I was not originally a fan of the “tea party” and I’m still not truth be told. I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents say…it’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline, it’s unrealistic about the popularity of the policies it prefers, that losing running candidates like Christine O’Donnell in deep blue states is preferable to winning with a sellout RINO (Note I said “deep blue” not purple or red states) and so on. Funny, I was just thinking about the Castle/O'Donnell race this morning. If Castle was in the Senate right now, where would he be on amnesty, minimum wage, debt ceiling, gun control etc.? He'd be there every step of the way giving R cover to the Obama administration. O'Donnell was one of the worst Senate candidates in history. I'm just not sure that we'd be better off with a 54/46 Senate with the extra R being the most liberal R in the Senate and perhaps going full Lincoln Chafee. I'm not offended by the tea party criticism per se, it has some validity. But a minimum standard for any R should be that they're not more hostile to conservatives than they are to dems. That's why there is some much venom directed toward McCain. We can tolerate someone like Scott Brown, but Castle was a bridge too far.

87 The only time both parties agree on anything it has to do with lining their own pockets.

Posted by: Petulant Klown at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (5fSr7)

In a way, it is good to know that they aren't as stupid as they seem and that there's something they're really good at; unfortunately, they are also unprincipled scum.

88 Where's ace?

89 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (RFeQD) This. And it scares the shit out of me for the sake of my children.

90 the amorphous “Establishment,”

Fuck you and your scare quotes. It's shorthand for an incestuous self-serving political class more interested in perpetuating its tenure and playing parliamentary games than advancing conservative principles, you stupid fuck. It doesn't have to be a shadowy cabal in hooded robes to be real.

91 Surrender your way to victory with the GOP!

92 Basically what some people on the GOP's Titanic want to do is jump overboard before  it hits the iceberg

93 Eventually the real reset button of corruption, debt, and liabilities out the yin-yang will be pushed and all hell will break loose.

94 Our future is more Brazil, than Venezuela, but we are becoming a Latin American style country -- with all the corruption and backwardness that implies.

95 Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (Gk3SS may I offer a choice piece of chocolate cheese cake?

96 >>No body is talking about "willing our ideas into law", I am pointing out that every effort must begin by a force of will, and a determination to fight. This assumes that nobody is currently fighting. Times change, circumstances change, players change. Assuming that 2014 is exactly the same as 2008 is silly, everything has changed. There is no question the GOP is becoming more conservative. Guys like Cruz and Lee in the Senate, an actual Tea Party Caucus in the House. Change is happening and assuming that the same old GOP is going to be in power is not supported by the facts. I don't have any problem primarying the squishier members of the GOP and replacing them with more conservative members. But the reality is until we gain control we are not going to win the battles we want to. We could have a Senate full of Cruzes but as long as we are in the minority with dishonest brokers like Reid, a guy who nuked decades of tradition with the filibuster just to ram through Obama's judges, we are not going to get what we want. Multiple things can happen at the same time. We can win back the Senate and move the window to the right. The Dems did it, replacing most of the old centrists in their party or converting them, we can too.

97 Welcome to the Healthcare Exchange California, You can check out any time you like , But you can't never leave.

98 Where's Ace? It's 10:30 in the morning. Where do you think he is?

99 They downed the ball to get a time out through the elections. Yes, it's a non-conservative move, but it's where they were going to wind up anyway and avoids making the headlines about HIP obstructionism. Posted by: --- at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (ksJYU) Dripping with fear. Fear oozing out of every pore. A puddle of fear at your feet. There is a very good chance the GOP will hold all three Branches in 2017. You know what they will do then? Shit their pants and run home to Mommy.

100 Thank you, dogfish.  *noms*


It doesn't have to be a shadowy cabal in hooded robes to be real.
Posted by: Waterhouse at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (t8ySh)


No, but that would be kinda awesome.

101 I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents sayÂ…itÂ’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline, itÂ’s unrealistic about the popularity of the policies it prefers, Hey, thanks. Prove it. Next. Helpful hint: Math is not emotional.

102 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . ------- Exactly right! Stop reading anything but our certified talking points because we all know you are too stupid to form your own opinions.

103 So when Drew complains about the "tea party," who is he talking about? Because there is no tea party with defined leaders and a defined platform. Is he complaining about all conservatives who want a government that adheres to the Constitution? Because that's what it sounds like. And that's pretty stupid, IMHO.

104 Here's what pisses me off, and I saw it from Gabe this morning too, but was too late to comment on the thread. Here's Gabe: "The WSJ piece is right, but incomplete. Cruz knows he can demand a showdown even though he has no idea how to win one because (1) conservatives will eat that up, favoring intentions over results as they do currently; and (2) he isn't running for reelection this year. " These people, these political experts, they seem to have no concept of the value of principles, not just personally but even politically. Yes, we all knew that Cruz's filibuster was not going to work. So what? It was absolutely the right thing to do. #1. It energized the base, which needs doing. I don't know who these RINOs think they're going to get to man phone banks and knock on doors, but I tell you there are fewer and fewer people willing to do the small beer of politics for someone who pisses in their face and tells them that it's raining daily. #2. Even more important, it stakes out a position, and if you know that your position is correct this is not a bad place to be. The position "Obamacide is such a disaster that I'm willing to do everything I can to prevent it from being inflicted upon the American public, up to and including shutting down the government" is THE PLACE TO BE when Obamacide turns out to be as bad as we knew it would be. Don't you think that opposition is something you can run on with 5 million people who lost their insurance and are now uninsured or paying more? There's up to 80 million more coming down the pike, you'd think a politician would want a strong stance against that to woo them. #3. Fuck the MSM. Seriously, just stop trying. If Ted Cruz were to walk on water, the headline in the NYT would be "Republican Senator can't swim". Don't play their game. Stake out your positions, stick to them, learn to defend them calmly and refuse to buy into the MSM assumptions that frame their "questions". Proggy ideas are so poorly thought out that it's easy to discredit them, take a few minutes to learn how. One example and I'm done: "Mr. Republican, you oppose the expansion of Medicade in your state. In these tough times, how can you deny medical care to poor people. Don't you care?" "I'm glad you asked that Mr. Reporter. I oppose the expansion of Medicade because studies have repeatedly shown that people on Medicade have worse health outcomes than even the uninsured. Why do you believe that hard working people going through a rough patch should be forced onto inferior health care?" IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD. Parry their asinine statement, then strike back hard. I guarantee you that any reporter who ran into the above would be left sputtering in confusion, the Republican could then easily grab control of the interview and propose whatever he or she wanted. You don't win every battle. Nobody can. But if you're standing strong on historically proven principles, ones that have been proven to work over and over again, you're in the correct position to pick up the pieces when another bloated boondoggle starts to implode. Hell, it's easier than the pandering that most of these idiots seem to think is their job description. All it takes is a little intellect and courage.....oh, now I see the flaw in my reasoning. Damn.

105 I think I'd prefer 100 Forrest Gumps in the Senate over what we have now. Posted by: Sphynx ------------------ Gump, of course, managed a shrimp boat, so more experience than most politicians.

106 Vic, you can't bargain if your opponent knows you have nothing to bargain with. When you fold the first time, then you sure as hell can not be believed when you say you won't fold the second time. Once you are a whore, everyone wants to fuck you and when you say no, no one believes you. You can not regenerate virginity, although I had several dates that thought so.

107 You are right. They are smelling victory in the Senate and will wait until then ram amnesty 2.0 down our throats. - Then we'll be sitting pretty.

108 89 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. It's an elite bribing a mob to terrorize the working class. That's what our country is, right now. There are three sets of laws: laws for the elite, laws for the mob, and laws for the law-abiding. The last group are the slaves of the other two.

109 105 Certainly more than the SCoaMF.

110 Exactly right! Stop reading anything but our certified talking points because we all know you are too stupid to form your own opinions.

Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5)

McConnell/Boehner:  "Trust us to do the right thing!"

111
For fuck's sake, Mr. Cooke thing do you think we're new? Did all of prior political history up to this point simply not happen?

Posted by: alexthechick



Cooke was born in 1984, so there's the limited perspective of one who's personal political experience starts with the Bush II Era.

And he's from the UK, so there's the problem of being on the outside looking in.  It's like us trying to learn British politics by watching Masterpiece Theater and old Monty Python sketches.

112 Surrender your way to victory with the GOP!

-----
Well.... the progressives have always wanted us to be more like Europe.   The Beltway Republicans have staked out their portion as "French".

113 First of all, there is no such thing as a budget. They switch money (our damn money) around when and where they please. Secondly, there is no difference between the establishment rinos and democrats. They are all on the same team. That is, they represent Washington City, not we the people. The only time establishment rinos (Hatch, Graham, Cornyn, McCain, McConnell) act conservative is when they run for re-election. Rinos don't want to be dethroned, and democrats can't be dethroned, as long as the propaganda ministry belongs to them.  Bad times are coming. BAD times.

114 If interest rates ever again return to being market based, we are truly and terminally fucked.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (BZAd3)

****************************

^^this ten thousand times. We need to be preparing now for who is going to be running budgets and appropriations when the fiscal sh*t hits the fan (likely before the end of TFG's term, so we have to assume that negotiations are done with the White House wanting no cuts to anything, more stuff for the FSA, and raise those taxes for fairness). The Republicans may be squishy, but they move in the right direction, and will man up when the bond market demands it. The Democrats will drive us into depression and default. We need to keep the GOP in power in both houses of Congress, while electing every conservative we possibly can and putting a conservative in the White House in 2016 who will preside over the largest restructuring in history. You know what? Maybe Mitt Romney, who has some private sector experience in this area, might be a good pick for VP/Chief Restructuring Officer.

115 DrewMs victimology is also indicated in his headline. Who the fuck asked you to cheer the GOP. Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism.

116 Voting Republican is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're going to get.

117 may I offer a choice piece of chocolate cheese cake? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:37 AM (HVff2)


Yes, please.


Look, everyone's (by which I mean my) tl;dr can by summed up in one word.   Trust.

Cooke, et al, presume that the base should trust that when, not if, when the GOP regains the Senate and holds the House, then conservative principles will be advanced.

The base has no trust left for the GOP.


That is a problem.   That is an enormous problem. 

118 HQ and personal favorite Charles C.W. Cooke....

Yup, just like Poppin' Fresh, one of Teh Go-to HQ Guys for Big News and Thoughtful Anal-ysis.

People who see the shit in Washington as some kind of happy fun video game that rewards crafty maneuvering are playing right into the hands of the Prophets of Choom. Never mind that the rest of us real-life types are taking it on the friggin' chin; all they see is a scoreboard.

That's why the 52% and the media laugh at us. They're in it to win; we are content to rack up a few random style points.

119 While Americans are bleeding and dying on mountains and in oncology suites these clowns have played whinerball.  They've done nothing but draft and block for the left turn down the drain gang.  They are worse than just wrong.
They will get theirs here and hereafter.  FUCK THEM.

120 29?
Vic?

I'm with you. Kabuki theatre is all it is, anymore. Gone Galt as much as I can....

121 Cooke could have saved himself a lot of words if he'd just gotten to the meat of the matter:  We've got to protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen!  Harrumph!  Harrumph!  Harrumph!

122 The debt does have a the function of stopping spending. It is simply an accounting artifice. It is the sum of past debt and future spending approved by congress at any point in time. It doesn't exist now so there is no use discussing it anymore. We live in a Brave New World now.

123 Maybe if we defend the "establishment" we'll prove our allegiance and they'll let us play with the big boy toys, and sit at the big boy table.

124 You know what? Maybe Mitt Romney, who has some private sector experience in this area, might be a good pick for VP/Chief Restructuring Officer.

The way the GOP thinks, he deserves another shot at the top of the ticket.

125 The base has no trust left for the GOP. That is a problem. That is an enormous problem. The solution is simple: browbeat and scold the base until they fall into line. We're master politicians.

126 Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5) Your snark sucks . It's not either /or you ignoramus .

127 It took the left 20 yrs to get gay marriage. It took the left twenty years to get socialized health care. When they weren't winning, they were making their case. That's how they won. The GOP could be making the case and laying the groundwork for fiscal and regulatory reform, but the only ones who are trying to make the case are derided as whackobirds. Makes one doubt the GOP is really into those reforms.

128 Your snark sucks . It's not either /or you ignoramus . ---------- Tell me why I should trust the GOP. Asshole.

129 Gone Galt as much as I can.... Posted by: backhoe at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (ULH4o) Yep, me too. Starving the beast as best I can since 2009.

130 We live in a Brave New World now. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:44 AM (1Y+hH) My hand-scrawled sign: WILL WORK FOR SOMA

131 Well.... the progressives have always wanted us to be more like Europe. The Beltway Republicans have staked out their portion as "French".

Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (nELVU)

More like the Norwegian/French position of "Quisling/Pétain ".

132 Actually, G&R, we live in a combination of Brave New World and 1984. 

133

120 backhoe

 

I went searching through maps of your St Simons Island the other night - after that I'm sure I find my way around - even if I would be driving on the wrong side of the road!

 

Looked at some pics too that I found - lovely location!

 

Thank you..

134 Graham and Rudmann sock off.

135 " there is little that either man could have done differently while their party controlled just one half of one branch of government."

So they need me to send them a copy of Tip's book(s)?

136 Man that sock is sticky.

137 I've mainly concentrated on cultural differences like why do you all tip people and why can't I buy Vegemite when I'm in the US.... Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:32 AM (nP3cM) Howdy Aussie, It's y'all, not 'you all.' Why do we tip? Don't know, but it's fun to leave a really tiny tip for crappy service, and you can buy Vegemite here. It's sold at hardware stores labled as drywall paste. On a more serious note, I stumbled on this story from last December about salvagers stripping parts from HMAS Perth which sank along with USS Houston during the Battle of Sunda Strait Feb/Mar 1942. Your government should send your navy and sink the salvage boats. http://tinyurl.com/o6vwaol

138 We need more concern trolls on this one. Palin. Palin. Palin. That'll bring 'em.

139 Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. Come around here often, do you? We do it all, snark, one liners, massive walls of text. Give me a topic and I will give you whatever "product" that you wish. There is a reckoning coming and people like you who think that we can tack our way through it instead of confronting it are going to have a very bad time. I'll ask again: What was the difference between Mitch McConnell and a Democrat on the debtceiling vote?

140 It's not wrong to say You don't consent to Unanimous Votes. Fuck the RINOS. It's a shit policy, don't fucking vote for it.

141 Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. No he didn't. He simply declared Drew insane and rehashed the same tired bullshit about 'electability uber alles' which exists solely as a justification for inaction.

142 “I’d be willing to risk losing the Senate if we could keep America,” Mitch McConnell’s primary challenger, Matt Bevin, told Glenn Beck this morning. What an astonishingly incoherent and misguided sentence that is.
============
What an astonishing thing that is for Cooke to admit: That it is better to keep this train rolling and lose our country than to lose the Senate.
"Give up your soul to save the Senate," he says.

Fuck him.

Newsflash bitch: We don't have the Senate right now!

So--and this goes to Gabe as well--how the fuck does holding to principles hurt?

And don't give me this "chess" bullshit. Chess is a game. Real life is brutal, nasty, and far less devious while being far more complicated. There's no fucking room for "7 moves ahead" because 7 moves in life could have you planting a flag on the moon; life too unpredictable for that type of planning. 

I don't think I can even express the level of hate I have for Cooke right now, "fuck you and yours" he says, "we need the right Republicans in the minority in the Senate."

143 >>... not interested in creating converts Drew says this about the TEA party. This is my problem with the leadership though. I think we are at a point where we are losing the country. Many in the TEA party feel that way as well. granted the GOP has little power right now, but a little power and a little leverage can change public opinions. Gringrich did it with the CWA, and even though it was a stunt, it worked. The leaders should be forcing votes to make it clear that we are in deep shit. I don't know, maybe require each debt limit extension to be expressed in per capita terms. Or in terms of taxes that will necessarily paid by each demographic. Or maybe they should just go on the floor and rant for a few days so that the GOP is known as "those crazies that are worried about debt" instead of "those crazies that are worried about abortion."

144 134 Graham and Rudmann sock off. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (1Y+hH) Now you're getting it, Comrade!

145 When they weren't winning, they were making their case. That's how they won. The GOP could be making the case and laying the groundwork for fiscal and regulatory reform, Gregory of Yardale at February 14, 2014 10:45 AM (QXlbZ) --------------- But they had/have something we don't, the media. TV, movies, magazines, news. We don't have that. It pushed their beliefs, and pushed and pushed.

146 Actually, GR, we live in a combination of Brave New World and 1984. - With just a hint of Benny Hill.

147 Palin.

Palin.

Palin.

That'll bring 'em.

Posted by: eman at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (AO9UG)

------

Needs more...... bait.

Palin/Huckabee 2016

148 Actually, GR, we live in a combination of Brave New World and 1984. Posted by: Empire1 Your amendment is accepted.

149 May I ask what, exactly, is wrong with enforcing discipline on a notoriously unreliable party? (I'm leaving alone for the moment my position vis-a-vis replacing the Whigpublican Party.)

150 >>It took the left 20 yrs to get gay marriage. It took the left twenty years to get socialized health care. It took the left closer to 100 years to get socialized medicine. They've been after it since the days of FDR. And they only got those things once they had moved the party sufficiently left and won control. And the right is making the case about spending. It is the number 1 issue, well that and getting rid of socialized medicine, that just about every GOP candidate is running on. The window for the party has moved decidedly to the right and continues to move. When a guy like McConnell not only gets a challenger from the right but a challenger who stands a chance of actually unseating him, movement is happening. But we also need to win.

151 Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (Gk3SS) Yet again, the magnificence of our Empress is on display. Even when Dems do what is politically expedient at the expense of their base, they never actively denigrate their base. They don't backstab each other. E.g., when the shutdown was going on, Repubs that disagreed were so eager to shout from the rooftops that it was a stupid idea. I'm not saying we all have to march in lockstep (far from it - I don't want us to become Dems), but is it too much to ask that those in the media and politics on our side not so gleefully attack our own people, especially if they're trying to do the right thing even if you think they're misguided? Even if the shutdown had a chance of "working", they would almost certainly doom it by putting it down every chance they got. (Still not convinced it was a colossal failure, by the way.) Another thing. The left, with their repulsive agenda, are completely fearless. But our guys are scared of their shadows. And when someone tries to be courageous, they all try to claw him/her down like crabs in a bucket. You do not win anything that way. (Assuming they don't want to win anything except their seats.)

152 Once you've Graham Rudman you never go back.

153 Really good article DrewM.

154 Massachusetts Obamacare exchange granted federal extension as director gently weeps

So the state system that Obamacare was supposedly based on, can't even do Obamacare. 

155 aussie, I don't think anyone actually answered you.


Yes, the Republicans have the majority in the House of Representatives and are the minority in the Senate.  

The following is a very quick and dirty explanation so things might be a wee bit off.   The Horde will certainly put me some knowledge to correct any errors. 


The discussions about Reid manipulating the rules refer to the fact that Reid as majority leader in the Senate can use the various rules of procedure in the Senate to block certain matters from ever coming to a vote and ram through others.  When you see comments about the House voting over 40 times to repeal Obamacare but Reid never allowing those bills to come to a vote, that's what is being referenced.  

The references to the cloture vote being the real vote refer to the vote to cut off debate.   Since the Dems have the Senate majority, they can pass anything on a majority party line vote.  However, under current Senate rules, it takes 60 votes to end debate.  Thus, McConnell can vote to end debate, knowing full well that means the bill will pass, then vote against the bill and then claim hey I voted against it!   This is better known as two faced bullshit.


Hopefully that is more comprehensible than the varied explanations of cricket I've read. 

156 Yesterday Ace was talking about affirmative action "light" and today I found that Cooke has gone wobbly. Who's next?

157 All the proof anyone should need that the GOP Establishment is NOT just playing a bad hand, but rather is actively working against us, comes from two indisputable facts: 1. They want Amnesty. Sure - on their own terms - but it will be little or no better than the turd sandwich the Dems would force on us. 2. They are quick to try to make Democrat failures into semi-workable almost-failures with a Republican brand-name on them, thereby conceding the philosophical arguement to the enemy while saddljng us with more government intrusion into our lives. They should rejoice in the collapse of Obamacare; the should not be trying to figure out how to make it more palatable.

158 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.  First the cult of personality that we clearly see that the left is engaged in, and now, we are supposed to believe that the corruptocrats on our own side are screwing us for our own good because it is the pragmatic thing to do, as if things will change once the repubs hold the reins of power.

I'm suffering another bout of skepticism.

159 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.  First the cult of personality that we clearly see that the left is engaged in, and now, we are supposed to believe that the corruptocrats on our own side are screwing us for our own good because it is the pragmatic thing to do, as if things will change once the repubs hold the reins of power.

I'm suffering another bout of skepticism.

160 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.  First the cult of personality that we clearly see that the left is engaged in, and now, we are supposed to believe that the corruptocrats on our own side are screwing us for our own good because it is the pragmatic thing to do, as if things will change once the repubs hold the reins of power.

I'm suffering another bout of skepticism.

161 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.  First the cult of personality that we clearly see that the left is engaged in, and now, we are supposed to believe that the corruptocrats on our own side are screwing us for our own good because it is the pragmatic thing to do, as if things will change once the repubs hold the reins of power.

I'm suffering another bout of skepticism.

162 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Uh Oh you've done it now.

163 133?
aussie?

Thanks for looking. When I grew up there the Causeway had wooden bridges held together with railroad spikes. After I was born at the old County Hospital ( 2 streets down from where I now live ) the ambulance taking me and Mom home hit one that had backed out on the Frederica river bridge and had a blowout.

So that's why I tell people "I rode the Thunder into this life. I expect to Ride the Thunder out...."

164 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Uh Oh you've done it now.

165 133?
aussie?

Thanks for looking. When I grew up there the Causeway had wooden bridges held together with railroad spikes. After I was born at the old County Hospital ( 2 streets down from where I now live ) the ambulance taking me and Mom home hit one that had backed out on the Frederica river bridge and had a blowout.

So that's why I tell people "I rode the Thunder into this life. I expect to Ride the Thunder out...."

166 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Uh Oh you've done it now.

167 133?
aussie?

Thanks for looking. When I grew up there the Causeway had wooden bridges held together with railroad spikes. After I was born at the old County Hospital ( 2 streets down from where I now live ) the ambulance taking me and Mom home hit one that had backed out on the Frederica river bridge and had a blowout.

So that's why I tell people "I rode the Thunder into this life. I expect to Ride the Thunder out...."

168 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Uh Oh you've done it now.

169 133?
aussie?

Thanks for looking. When I grew up there the Causeway had wooden bridges held together with railroad spikes. After I was born at the old County Hospital ( 2 streets down from where I now live ) the ambulance taking me and Mom home hit one that had backed out on the Frederica river bridge and had a blowout.

So that's why I tell people "I rode the Thunder into this life. I expect to Ride the Thunder out...."

170 Republican squishes are wasting their time cussing me. I registered independent in 2007 when it became obvious that the R party had no intention of working toward fiscal sanity. I'm not in your party. Do what you please with it.

171 Republican squishes are wasting their time cussing me. I registered independent in 2007 when it became obvious that the R party had no intention of working toward fiscal sanity. I'm not in your party. Do what you please with it.

172 Republican squishes are wasting their time cussing me. I registered independent in 2007 when it became obvious that the R party had no intention of working toward fiscal sanity. I'm not in your party. Do what you please with it.

173 Republican squishes are wasting their time cussing me. I registered independent in 2007 when it became obvious that the R party had no intention of working toward fiscal sanity. I'm not in your party. Do what you please with it.

174 Okay..., now I'm thinking about the Weirddave Party. * ponders Gingy as First Lady * Press interview: Press: "Mrs. Weirdave, how much did you pay for that gorgeous shawl, and where did you buy it?" Mrs. Weirddave: "This? Oh, I just spun some surplus ewok hair into thread, dyed it, then knitted this." Press: "Wow! Uh...., gosh, you must have wasted, uh, spent a lot of time on that.." Mrs. Weirddave: "No, not really, I knitted it last night while waiting for the roast to cook and watching Fox News. Probably took an a hour. It would have taken a little less time had I not taken a occasional break to rest my fingers, and to finish a ten page paper regarding Spinoza's early childhood influences." Press: *gurgling noises, then silence *

175 Okay..., now I'm thinking about the Weirddave Party. * ponders Gingy as First Lady * Press interview: Press: "Mrs. Weirdave, how much did you pay for that gorgeous shawl, and where did you buy it?" Mrs. Weirddave: "This? Oh, I just spun some surplus ewok hair into thread, dyed it, then knitted this." Press: "Wow! Uh...., gosh, you must have wasted, uh, spent a lot of time on that.." Mrs. Weirddave: "No, not really, I knitted it last night while waiting for the roast to cook and watching Fox News. Probably took an a hour. It would have taken a little less time had I not taken a occasional break to rest my fingers, and to finish a ten page paper regarding Spinoza's early childhood influences." Press: *gurgling noises, then silence *

176 Okay..., now I'm thinking about the Weirddave Party. * ponders Gingy as First Lady * Press interview: Press: "Mrs. Weirdave, how much did you pay for that gorgeous shawl, and where did you buy it?" Mrs. Weirddave: "This? Oh, I just spun some surplus ewok hair into thread, dyed it, then knitted this." Press: "Wow! Uh...., gosh, you must have wasted, uh, spent a lot of time on that.." Mrs. Weirddave: "No, not really, I knitted it last night while waiting for the roast to cook and watching Fox News. Probably took an a hour. It would have taken a little less time had I not taken a occasional break to rest my fingers, and to finish a ten page paper regarding Spinoza's early childhood influences." Press: *gurgling noises, then silence *

177 Okay..., now I'm thinking about the Weirddave Party. * ponders Gingy as First Lady * Press interview: Press: "Mrs. Weirdave, how much did you pay for that gorgeous shawl, and where did you buy it?" Mrs. Weirddave: "This? Oh, I just spun some surplus ewok hair into thread, dyed it, then knitted this." Press: "Wow! Uh...., gosh, you must have wasted, uh, spent a lot of time on that.." Mrs. Weirddave: "No, not really, I knitted it last night while waiting for the roast to cook and watching Fox News. Probably took an a hour. It would have taken a little less time had I not taken a occasional break to rest my fingers, and to finish a ten page paper regarding Spinoza's early childhood influences." Press: *gurgling noises, then silence *

178

Screw Cooke and the rest of the tyrany-enablers of the Neville Chamberlin wing of the Repubs

179

Screw Cooke and the rest of the tyrany-enablers of the Neville Chamberlin wing of the Repubs

180

Screw Cooke and the rest of the tyrany-enablers of the Neville Chamberlin wing of the Repubs

181

Screw Cooke and the rest of the tyrany-enablers of the Neville Chamberlin wing of the Repubs

182 Palin/Huckabee 2016 Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (nELVU) Now you've done it!!! Rrrraarrgghgh! /jk. heh.

183 Palin/Huckabee 2016 Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (nELVU) Now you've done it!!! Rrrraarrgghgh! /jk. heh.

184 Palin/Huckabee 2016 Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (nELVU) Now you've done it!!! Rrrraarrgghgh! /jk. heh.

185 Palin/Huckabee 2016 Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (nELVU) Now you've done it!!! Rrrraarrgghgh! /jk. heh.

186 158 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm. Turn the page, brother. Have some Soma. Now, tell me I'm not highly pneumatic...

187 Once you've Graham Rudman you never go back. Posted by: WalrusRex It was a freakin' tar baby I tells ya! I know, wassist.

188 158 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm. Turn the page, brother. Have some Soma. Now, tell me I'm not highly pneumatic...

189 Once you've Graham Rudman you never go back. Posted by: WalrusRex It was a freakin' tar baby I tells ya! I know, wassist.

190 158 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm. Turn the page, brother. Have some Soma. Now, tell me I'm not highly pneumatic...

191 Once you've Graham Rudman you never go back. Posted by: WalrusRex It was a freakin' tar baby I tells ya! I know, wassist.

192 158 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm. Turn the page, brother. Have some Soma. Now, tell me I'm not highly pneumatic...

193 Once you've Graham Rudman you never go back. Posted by: WalrusRex It was a freakin' tar baby I tells ya! I know, wassist.

194 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.

----

OK.... we are now in Benny Hills literary work of a "Brave New Animal Farm - 1984".

I move we close debate and put the item to vote.

195 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.

----

OK.... we are now in Benny Hills literary work of a "Brave New Animal Farm - 1984".

I move we close debate and put the item to vote.

196 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.

----

OK.... we are now in Benny Hills literary work of a "Brave New Animal Farm - 1984".

I move we close debate and put the item to vote.

197 This post reminds me once again, of Animal Farm.

----

OK.... we are now in Benny Hills literary work of a "Brave New Animal Farm - 1984".

I move we close debate and put the item to vote.

198 Good one Drew.

199 Good one Drew.

200 Good one Drew.

201 Good one Drew.

202 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

203 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

204 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

205 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

206

137 ExSnipe

 

Y'all? That OK?  #insert smiley face# which I can't manage here!

 

That story about the HMAS Perth being stripped for parts in Indonesia really got some people very angry here - I must find out now what happened after this news broke

 

Any news from Indonesia has been swamped by our successful Operation Sovereign Borders - stopping "asylum seekers" from coming to OZ by boat after flying into Indonesia from Muslim countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc plus a few from Sri Lanka and Burma

 

No boats in 8 weeks.........

 

 

 

207

137 ExSnipe

 

Y'all? That OK?  #insert smiley face# which I can't manage here!

 

That story about the HMAS Perth being stripped for parts in Indonesia really got some people very angry here - I must find out now what happened after this news broke

 

Any news from Indonesia has been swamped by our successful Operation Sovereign Borders - stopping "asylum seekers" from coming to OZ by boat after flying into Indonesia from Muslim countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc plus a few from Sri Lanka and Burma

 

No boats in 8 weeks.........

 

 

 

208

137 ExSnipe

 

Y'all? That OK?  #insert smiley face# which I can't manage here!

 

That story about the HMAS Perth being stripped for parts in Indonesia really got some people very angry here - I must find out now what happened after this news broke

 

Any news from Indonesia has been swamped by our successful Operation Sovereign Borders - stopping "asylum seekers" from coming to OZ by boat after flying into Indonesia from Muslim countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc plus a few from Sri Lanka and Burma

 

No boats in 8 weeks.........

 

 

 

209

137 ExSnipe

 

Y'all? That OK?  #insert smiley face# which I can't manage here!

 

That story about the HMAS Perth being stripped for parts in Indonesia really got some people very angry here - I must find out now what happened after this news broke

 

Any news from Indonesia has been swamped by our successful Operation Sovereign Borders - stopping "asylum seekers" from coming to OZ by boat after flying into Indonesia from Muslim countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc plus a few from Sri Lanka and Burma

 

No boats in 8 weeks.........

 

 

 

210 Backhoe - Did I ever tell you about my copy of 'The Jekyll Island Club'

211 Backhoe - Did I ever tell you about my copy of 'The Jekyll Island Club'

212 Backhoe - Did I ever tell you about my copy of 'The Jekyll Island Club'

213 Backhoe - Did I ever tell you about my copy of 'The Jekyll Island Club'

214 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (pJB7q) ---------------------- Invalid use of "lesser of two evils" / "support the party" argument. Does not apply in non-Presidential years. Flag on the play. Mew

215 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (pJB7q) ---------------------- Invalid use of "lesser of two evils" / "support the party" argument. Does not apply in non-Presidential years. Flag on the play. Mew

216 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (pJB7q) ---------------------- Invalid use of "lesser of two evils" / "support the party" argument. Does not apply in non-Presidential years. Flag on the play. Mew

217 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (pJB7q) ---------------------- Invalid use of "lesser of two evils" / "support the party" argument. Does not apply in non-Presidential years. Flag on the play. Mew

218 One wonders if the GOP leadership can speak French.  Because they have become cheese eating surrender monkeys.

219 One wonders if the GOP leadership can speak French.  Because they have become cheese eating surrender monkeys.

220 One wonders if the GOP leadership can speak French.  Because they have become cheese eating surrender monkeys.

221 One wonders if the GOP leadership can speak French.  Because they have become cheese eating surrender monkeys.

222 who are now patting me on the top of head

Ima let that go right by.

223 who are now patting me on the top of head

Ima let that go right by.

224 who are now patting me on the top of head

Ima let that go right by.

225 who are now patting me on the top of head

Ima let that go right by.

226 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

Posted by: WVinMN at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (4Pleu)

----

..... and "Defense".

227 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

Posted by: WVinMN at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (4Pleu)

----

..... and "Defense".

228 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

Posted by: WVinMN at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (4Pleu)

----

..... and "Defense".

229 I thought if we tea-baggers simply dropped the social issues everything would come up roses? Now we have to give up on spending and financial issues as well?

Posted by: WVinMN at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (4Pleu)

----

..... and "Defense".

230 Calling one of the brightest, most articulate young stars in the GOP "insane" is insane. But insane and absurd seem to be the Smart Set's mots du jour. The reason the GOP loses -- and the Dems win -- is that is that when THEY have a "clean, articulate" young politician, they groom him for the Presidency. Whereas when we (or they - the GOP) have same, the People Who Know Best smear him. Honestly, if you took half the things the Smart Setters say and write about Cruz and swapped his name for Michele "tardasil" Bachmann or Todd "legitimate rape" Akin, you could not tell the difference. That's what pisses me off the most about the Establishment (or whatever you want to call them). It's not that I think Cruz is always right or Our Savior or any of those things, but he is a truly impressive person AND he includes all of those "intangibles" that the GOP consulting class SAYS we need. So I really tune off their chatter because it's utter bullshit.

231 Calling one of the brightest, most articulate young stars in the GOP "insane" is insane. But insane and absurd seem to be the Smart Set's mots du jour. The reason the GOP loses -- and the Dems win -- is that is that when THEY have a "clean, articulate" young politician, they groom him for the Presidency. Whereas when we (or they - the GOP) have same, the People Who Know Best smear him. Honestly, if you took half the things the Smart Setters say and write about Cruz and swapped his name for Michele "tardasil" Bachmann or Todd "legitimate rape" Akin, you could not tell the difference. That's what pisses me off the most about the Establishment (or whatever you want to call them). It's not that I think Cruz is always right or Our Savior or any of those things, but he is a truly impressive person AND he includes all of those "intangibles" that the GOP consulting class SAYS we need. So I really tune off their chatter because it's utter bullshit.

232 Calling one of the brightest, most articulate young stars in the GOP "insane" is insane. But insane and absurd seem to be the Smart Set's mots du jour. The reason the GOP loses -- and the Dems win -- is that is that when THEY have a "clean, articulate" young politician, they groom him for the Presidency. Whereas when we (or they - the GOP) have same, the People Who Know Best smear him. Honestly, if you took half the things the Smart Setters say and write about Cruz and swapped his name for Michele "tardasil" Bachmann or Todd "legitimate rape" Akin, you could not tell the difference. That's what pisses me off the most about the Establishment (or whatever you want to call them). It's not that I think Cruz is always right or Our Savior or any of those things, but he is a truly impressive person AND he includes all of those "intangibles" that the GOP consulting class SAYS we need. So I really tune off their chatter because it's utter bullshit.

233 Calling one of the brightest, most articulate young stars in the GOP "insane" is insane. But insane and absurd seem to be the Smart Set's mots du jour. The reason the GOP loses -- and the Dems win -- is that is that when THEY have a "clean, articulate" young politician, they groom him for the Presidency. Whereas when we (or they - the GOP) have same, the People Who Know Best smear him. Honestly, if you took half the things the Smart Setters say and write about Cruz and swapped his name for Michele "tardasil" Bachmann or Todd "legitimate rape" Akin, you could not tell the difference. That's what pisses me off the most about the Establishment (or whatever you want to call them). It's not that I think Cruz is always right or Our Savior or any of those things, but he is a truly impressive person AND he includes all of those "intangibles" that the GOP consulting class SAYS we need. So I really tune off their chatter because it's utter bullshit.

234 BTW, I know Cooke was referring to Drew's tweet, but the sentiment is there.

235 BTW, I know Cooke was referring to Drew's tweet, but the sentiment is there.

236 BTW, I know Cooke was referring to Drew's tweet, but the sentiment is there.

237 BTW, I know Cooke was referring to Drew's tweet, but the sentiment is there.

238 You know something is up with GOPe when conservatives catch all the flack instead of their Democrat friends across the aisle.

239 You know something is up with GOPe when conservatives catch all the flack instead of their Democrat friends across the aisle.

240 You know something is up with GOPe when conservatives catch all the flack instead of their Democrat friends across the aisle.

241 You know something is up with GOPe when conservatives catch all the flack instead of their Democrat friends across the aisle.

242 No boats in 8 weeks......... Posted by: aussie ------------ Why...., it's almost as if sovereignty and borders have actual meaning.

243 No boats in 8 weeks......... Posted by: aussie ------------ Why...., it's almost as if sovereignty and borders have actual meaning.

244 No boats in 8 weeks......... Posted by: aussie ------------ Why...., it's almost as if sovereignty and borders have actual meaning.

245 No boats in 8 weeks......... Posted by: aussie ------------ Why...., it's almost as if sovereignty and borders have actual meaning.

246 Surrounded by Democrats and other evil people, the establishment Republicans are left merely to chase after dams while trying only to hide their fingerprints. Cooke demeans himself writing this article, defending men (primarily, though Kelly Ayotte has some ‘splaining to do too) who were elected for ideological reasons and have turned into such small figures.

247 Surrounded by Democrats and other evil people, the establishment Republicans are left merely to chase after dams while trying only to hide their fingerprints. Cooke demeans himself writing this article, defending men (primarily, though Kelly Ayotte has some ‘splaining to do too) who were elected for ideological reasons and have turned into such small figures.

248 Surrounded by Democrats and other evil people, the establishment Republicans are left merely to chase after dams while trying only to hide their fingerprints. Cooke demeans himself writing this article, defending men (primarily, though Kelly Ayotte has some ‘splaining to do too) who were elected for ideological reasons and have turned into such small figures.

249 Surrounded by Democrats and other evil people, the establishment Republicans are left merely to chase after dams while trying only to hide their fingerprints. Cooke demeans himself writing this article, defending men (primarily, though Kelly Ayotte has some ‘splaining to do too) who were elected for ideological reasons and have turned into such small figures.

250 But we also need to win. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Define "we". The winning you want and the power it will bring will be useless because those wielding the power will have zero incentive to do anything beyond the mildest things. Where will you get your mandate to stop the runaway train? From the deafening roar of millions of mice? If you want real power and you want to use it to save this republic then you need to state your principles and your goals and stick to them no matter what; and you must be ready to lose elections and lose fights and see things get much worse. Then when people are ready for what you offer you will be willing and able to do it and the people will be ready to trust you.

251 But we also need to win. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Define "we". The winning you want and the power it will bring will be useless because those wielding the power will have zero incentive to do anything beyond the mildest things. Where will you get your mandate to stop the runaway train? From the deafening roar of millions of mice? If you want real power and you want to use it to save this republic then you need to state your principles and your goals and stick to them no matter what; and you must be ready to lose elections and lose fights and see things get much worse. Then when people are ready for what you offer you will be willing and able to do it and the people will be ready to trust you.

252 But we also need to win. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Define "we". The winning you want and the power it will bring will be useless because those wielding the power will have zero incentive to do anything beyond the mildest things. Where will you get your mandate to stop the runaway train? From the deafening roar of millions of mice? If you want real power and you want to use it to save this republic then you need to state your principles and your goals and stick to them no matter what; and you must be ready to lose elections and lose fights and see things get much worse. Then when people are ready for what you offer you will be willing and able to do it and the people will be ready to trust you.

253 But we also need to win. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) Define "we". The winning you want and the power it will bring will be useless because those wielding the power will have zero incentive to do anything beyond the mildest things. Where will you get your mandate to stop the runaway train? From the deafening roar of millions of mice? If you want real power and you want to use it to save this republic then you need to state your principles and your goals and stick to them no matter what; and you must be ready to lose elections and lose fights and see things get much worse. Then when people are ready for what you offer you will be willing and able to do it and the people will be ready to trust you.

254 The leaders should be forcing votes to make it clear that we are in deep shit. I don't know, maybe require each debt limit extension to be expressed in per capita terms. Or in terms of taxes that will necessarily paid by each demographic. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 10:49 AM (LWu6U) Exactly right. As Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying: "I'll start believing it's a crises when they start iACTING like it's a crises."

255 The leaders should be forcing votes to make it clear that we are in deep shit. I don't know, maybe require each debt limit extension to be expressed in per capita terms. Or in terms of taxes that will necessarily paid by each demographic. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 10:49 AM (LWu6U) Exactly right. As Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying: "I'll start believing it's a crises when they start iACTING like it's a crises."

256 The leaders should be forcing votes to make it clear that we are in deep shit. I don't know, maybe require each debt limit extension to be expressed in per capita terms. Or in terms of taxes that will necessarily paid by each demographic. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 10:49 AM (LWu6U) Exactly right. As Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying: "I'll start believing it's a crises when they start iACTING like it's a crises."

257 The leaders should be forcing votes to make it clear that we are in deep shit. I don't know, maybe require each debt limit extension to be expressed in per capita terms. Or in terms of taxes that will necessarily paid by each demographic. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 10:49 AM (LWu6U) Exactly right. As Glenn Reynolds is fond of saying: "I'll start believing it's a crises when they start iACTING like it's a crises."

258 Press: *gurgling noises, then silence * Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there?

259 Press: *gurgling noises, then silence * Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there?

260 Press: *gurgling noises, then silence * Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there?

261 Press: *gurgling noises, then silence * Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there?

262 The discussions about Reid manipulating the rules refer to the fact that Reid as majority leader in the Senate can use the various rules of procedure in the Senate to block certain matters from ever coming to a vote and ram through others. When you see comments about the House voting over 40 times to repeal Obamacare but Reid never allowing those bills to come to a vote, that's what is being referenced.

How many of those votes mattered - attached to something like the debt ceiling, or military pay, or funding for Senate and WH staff, food stamps, or get really mean SS payments?

263 The discussions about Reid manipulating the rules refer to the fact that Reid as majority leader in the Senate can use the various rules of procedure in the Senate to block certain matters from ever coming to a vote and ram through others. When you see comments about the House voting over 40 times to repeal Obamacare but Reid never allowing those bills to come to a vote, that's what is being referenced.

How many of those votes mattered - attached to something like the debt ceiling, or military pay, or funding for Senate and WH staff, food stamps, or get really mean SS payments?

264 The discussions about Reid manipulating the rules refer to the fact that Reid as majority leader in the Senate can use the various rules of procedure in the Senate to block certain matters from ever coming to a vote and ram through others. When you see comments about the House voting over 40 times to repeal Obamacare but Reid never allowing those bills to come to a vote, that's what is being referenced.

How many of those votes mattered - attached to something like the debt ceiling, or military pay, or funding for Senate and WH staff, food stamps, or get really mean SS payments?

265 The discussions about Reid manipulating the rules refer to the fact that Reid as majority leader in the Senate can use the various rules of procedure in the Senate to block certain matters from ever coming to a vote and ram through others. When you see comments about the House voting over 40 times to repeal Obamacare but Reid never allowing those bills to come to a vote, that's what is being referenced.

How many of those votes mattered - attached to something like the debt ceiling, or military pay, or funding for Senate and WH staff, food stamps, or get really mean SS payments?

266 >>5 Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread! Friday is here and all is well! Did you read Gabe's Valentines Day Massacre thread? Tit for tat, baby.

267 >>5 Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread! Friday is here and all is well! Did you read Gabe's Valentines Day Massacre thread? Tit for tat, baby.

268 >>5 Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread! Friday is here and all is well! Did you read Gabe's Valentines Day Massacre thread? Tit for tat, baby.

269 >>5 Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread! Friday is here and all is well! Did you read Gabe's Valentines Day Massacre thread? Tit for tat, baby.

270 DrewM,

Your choice of an outlier on the insanity curve to criticize Tea Party candidates is disingenuous.

The vast majority of candidates supported by the various Tea Party organizations are simply fiscally conservative.

As for over-emotional? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

271 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:50 AM (g1DWB) This is one of my problems with McConnell: he is a bad salesman. He as DrewM says will build up expectations so much but his follow through record is atrocious. He is also over 70 years old right now and has served in the senate for 5 terms. I do not believe that these seats should be lifetime appointments when won. I think the people of Kentucky may enforce term limits on McConnell come the primary in May or in November's election looking at the polling for the Democrat right now.

272 Ted Cruz is a sado-masochistic. Obama stomped him into the ground over the shutdown and now that smirking jerk wants another showdown with Obama. Cruz is a despicable fool and I am sorry to have supported that Canadian clown.

273 179 Seize the initiative and load every rowboat with mooselimps and force them to leave. Muslims do not belong in the settlements of mankind.

274 The best thing for people of faith to do for Ted Cruz, IMO, is to pray for him. Pray for wisdom, protection, and strength , that (for people of the Christian faith) he have on the full armor of God on and that he be filled with the Holy Spirit. You can do that for any person in Government, of course. Secondly call or e-mail his office to express your support.

275 Yesterday Ace was talking about affirmative action "light" and today I found that Cooke has gone wobbly. Who's next? Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 10:52 AM (LWu6U) I am a huge opponent of AA (don't get me started - ask my friends), but I went back and read Ace's post and don't see what is so objectionable about it.

276 But they had/have something we don't, the media. TV, movies, magazines, news. We don't have that. It pushed their beliefs, and pushed and pushed. Posted by: Seems legit at February 14, 2014 10:49 AM (A98Xu) I've been saying this for decades. The unrelenting pressure from the Liberal Media (both news and entertainment) has been pushing the electorate steadily to the left. One party control of the news and entertainment industries *IS THE GREATEST THREAT WE HAVE BEEN FACING.* It is a matter of Strategic urgency to destroy their ability to do this, and to use whatever tactics are necessary to accomplish this.

277 How about a debt ceiling bill that simply states which programs are eligible for debt financing: SS, Military pay and operations, Medicaid/Medicare, etc ... not the EPA or DoE, make them wait on cash actual.  Might goose the left into letting the economy improve, so the tax take could fund their favorite little programs.

278 I'm all for Tea Partying anyone who voted to raise the debt ceiling the last time Republicans controlled congress, but a shutdown over the debt ceiling no would do nothing but cost us house and senate seats this fall. Let's keep the focus on winning, and then punish anyone who doesn't cut spending after we get control of congress.

279 Celebrate Divershity.

280 The Republicans should have shut the House doors in 2009 when the Senate failed to present a budget. They should have said, "We will reopen for business when the Senate performs its duty mandated under the Constitution and not before.

281 183 Press: *gurgling noises, then silence * Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there? Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 14, 2014 11:01 AM (naUcP) --- You know me so well.

282 171?
Mike?

I've heard of it, read synopsis's of it, and really don't know what to make of it. The millionaire's "village" there is all on the river side of the island- away from the sea. They used to have "redbugs"- small electric cars for tooling about the island. I think there is one sole specimen left in a museum over there. I coveted it as a child.

Jekyll has been a state park for years, but there is a whole quantum  jump of cultural differences between the mainland and any of the Sea Islands here- nite and day.

283 188 Ted Cruz is a sado-masochistic. Obama stomped him into the ground over the shutdown and now that smirking jerk wants another showdown with Obama. Cruz is a despicable fool and I am sorry to have supported that Canadian clown. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:03 AM (EszTV) Damn. That troll-bait up thread actually worked!

284 Is that from exposure to responses, or the Ravage slitting their throats while they sit there? Posted by: Brother Cavil ---------------- Responses. Had the script included : [Gingy waves hand], then Ravage. Pay attention.

285 You know how you can    spot a true warrior for the stated goals of the GOP?   He pushes his fellow party members to vote for a blank check, with absolutely no negotiations on getting at least a token spending cut anywhere.

286 11 9 How many words does the GOP have for this is not the hill to die on? Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:16 AM (6bMeY Contrary to common TruCon belief, there are indeed some hills not worth dying on. This is one of them. Getting rid of Obamacare is #1. Debt ceiling as leverage isn't going to work.

287

155 alexthechick

 

Thanks for that - very much appreciated!

 

It's hard to understand sometimes - words like cloture aren't used here - had to look it up

 

As for cricket, the day's play has ended in South Africa so it's bedtime!

 

And I do have a quick guide to cricket which I'll post on an open thread next week...I bet you can hardly wait!

Have a wonderful yesterday ...

288 No boats in 8 weeks......... Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (nP3cM) We used to have a strong border/immigration policy. Now it's come one and all for the free stuff.

289 Y-not (@MoxieMom) hasn't read the comments at February 14, 2014 10:58 AM (zDsvJ) Not to mention Cruz is always a gentleman in the face of the venom spewed by those in his own party.

290 I am a huge opponent of AA

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 11:04 AM (r+7wo)

That's because you are a racist.

291 New GOP platform. No more debt increases. Bush got his and Obama got his. Throw it down now. Make it an issue in the primary. Force the candidate to adopt the position. Make them make a non equivocal read my lips statement. When they go back on it and fail we can look to that one broken promise.

292 Let's keep the focus on winning, and then punish anyone who doesn't cut spending after we get control of congress. Posted by: Raul Johnson at February 14, 2014 11:05 AM (MiBr0)


And when that occurs and the punishment is due to be meted out, we will be told you can't do that!  Then we'll lose control!   How dare you even think of that! 


Trust.   Good luck to the GOP with getting that back. 

293 Neuter Obamacare, and once we cross 51, replace it. Get over it. People like the "replace" language. Replace it with free market reforms that "accidentally" end up making it a lot easier to cover people, "replacing" the "need" for Obamacare.

294 Are foreign nationals allowed to be First Lady? I didn't even want Dave to run for congress because I have a dirty mouth and like my privacy.

295 How did that Democrat Juan McCain get into the party?

296 2. They are quick to try to make Democrat failures into semi-workable almost-failures with a Republican brand-name on them, thereby conceding the philosophical arguement to the enemy while saddljng us with more government intrusion into our lives. They should rejoice in the collapse of Obamacare; the should not be trying to figure out how to make it more palatable. Posted by: Reactionary at February 14, 2014 10:52 AM (OnOJ+) There are a lot of astute people in these AOS comment threads. Now we just need to amplify our voices.

297 I saw Gramm-Rudman open for Roxy Music at the Bijou in '79

298 198? Mike?

My apologies- I mis-read that book as "The Creature from Jekyll Island." Damn, I hate getting old....

299 No boats in 8 weeks.........

Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:56 AM (nP3cM)

Bet the big salty crocs are getting upset

300 And since this is Valentine's Day. :^) "How to pray for enemies": http://tinyurl.com/kykj2we

301 The "Establishmentt" doesn't just include dolt politicians like Boehner and McConnell who sold out years ago.  It also includes many members of the so called "conservative" press.  Time for all of them to go.  "Nuff said.

302 >>Contrary to common TruCon belief, there are indeed some hills not worth dying on. This is one of them. Getting rid of Obamacare is #1. You know, it's a little difficult to take this Grand Strategy seriously when the same crowd spinning it was/is trying to push amnesty through.

303 That's because you are a racist. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 14, 2014 11:07 AM (QFxY5) Don't blow my cover, CBD!

304 And another "fuck you" to Cooke.

Fucker has callouses on his knees from giving blow-jobs to McConnell.

Here something for you to gargle along with that mouthful of spunk: The only advances in freedom and conservative values in the last 20 years have been on the two issues the leftists thought they had won--abortion and gun control.

Why?

Because we--WE--not you bitches in Washington DC, we FOUGHT! We fought tooth and nail, we never backed down, we never said, "this is a reasonable compromise on our principles."

In short: We have advanced because we have done the exact opposite of everything you advocate.

Which tells me: You have no fucking interest in freedom, in self-determination, in America--you are here to steal whatever scraps you can lick up off of the floor, provided your betters approve.

305 Are foreign nationals allowed to be First Lady? I didn't even want Dave to run for congress because I have a dirty mouth and like my privacy.


Sure.  It's not an elected position.


And the pics are already on the intarwebz!  Too late!!!!

306 Damn. That troll-bait up thread actually worked! Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 14, 2014 11:05 AM (JQuNB) When you are fishing for troll you have to use good bait. Trolls will merely bump most baits, but a really good bait, *CHOMP!*

307 Not to mention Cruz is always a gentleman in the face of the venom spewed by those in his own party. ========================= I had this same thought last evening while watching the movie "42". Cruz should watch it for inspiration on how to win the war even while enduring rank day after day abuse.

308 I like the candles FenelonSpoke lights.

309 You know, it's a little difficult to take this Grand Strategy seriously when the same crowd spinning it was/is trying to push amnesty through. Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) hasn't read the comments at February 14, 2014 11:09 AM (zDsvJ) Ok, you don't trust the GOP. Me neither. Does that mean they should dash themselves upon the rocks to placate the base? (if one doesn't believe it's the right move) It wins us nothing. It helps us lose possible seats. Why would we want this?

310 And what are the five benefits of praying for your enemies? http://tinyurl.com/m96wv35

311 fight the powah!

312 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:03 AM (EszTV) Go suck a dick you asshole troll.

313 Some here won't be happy until we go over the cliff, and risk getting put permanently in the wilderness. And will malign those on the right who won't applaud the strategy. Feh.

314 Backhoe - It's a long story, but one evening (about 40 years ago) I found myself having dinner at a Victorian era house in Oxford, Indiana. I was perusing the books in the library, and came across 'The Jekyll Island Club', privately published by Charles Lanier. Lanier was President of the Club at the time (1911). It was a fantastic book, over 60 photos taken around the island, people, etc. I expressed interest in buying, and got it for $27.00. Something of a high price, but I wanted it. I have never seen or been able to find another copy. I understand that they do have a copy at the museum there. Periodically, I check around the 'net to see if another copy has turned up. About a month ago, Bingo! Check the price: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Lanier&sts=t&tn=Jekyll

315 221 And the pics are already on the intarwebz! Too late!!!! Posted by: EC at February 14, 2014 11:10 AM (doBIb) --- Ixnay on the icspay.

316 It wins us nothing. It helps us lose possible seats. Why would we want this? Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:11 AM (E8IHS) It separates the wheat from the chaff.

317 Wait, wait, wait....I am way late to the party but FenelonSpoke is an 'ette???!!!??

318 Ted Cruz is a reactionary hardliner with a big ego. He is pandering to the worst faction of the republicans. I am 100% convinces Cruz is a plant for Soros. He went to Harvard and that is a dead give away this is an act on his part to help the democrats.

319 "I looked back at the debt ceiling hikes during the Bush years (that’s as far back as I had time to check) and there were seven of them totaling $5.85 trillion in increases. Mitch McConnell voted for each and every one of them. Only in 2009 did he begin to vote against hiking the debt ceiling." Until the Vote GOP Or You're A Traitor™ crowd can peel back the layers of that onion for me, I'm going to continue to tell them to fuck off.

320 What do we want?

WE DON'T KNOW!

When do we want it?

NOW!

/most commenters in this thread

321 I don't have enough faith in the American people to go with shutdown strategies. The political landscape reflects people's desires. The FSA rules.

322 196 The Republicans should have shut the House doors in 2009 when the Senate failed to present a budget. They should have said, "We will reopen for business when the Senate performs its duty mandated under the Constitution and not before. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:05 AM (1Y+hH) That is the sort of tactic Tip O'neill would have used, and I agree. We should have said "Fuck You" till they voted on a budget.

323 It wins us nothing. It helps us lose possible seats. Why would we want this? Short-sighted. Losing seats that are being used to advance toward financial Armageddon is not a worry.

324 Wonder Twin Powers - deactivate sock!

325 228 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:03 AM (EszTV) Go suck a dick you asshole troll. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 11:13 AM (bb5+k) In newspeak we now have 63 words for "dick," and 37 words for "suck." Please be more specific.

326 Some here won't be happy until we go over the cliff, and risk getting put permanently in the wilderness. And will malign those on the right who won't applaud the strategy. Feh. Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:13 AM (E8IHS) Fear.

327 And when that occurs and the punishment is due to be meted out, we will be told you can't do that! Then we'll lose control! How dare you even think of that! Trust. Good luck to the GOP with getting that back. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 11:07 AM (Gk3SS) And that is the damn truth that the "strategists" refuse to acknowledge. These same folks that are on and on about how stupid we are for wanting the GOP to at least genuinely attempt to do what they said they would do because: elections! are the same folks that, once the GOP has a majority in both houses and the presidency will tell us that doing what's necessary to fix the damn economy and federal apparatus is politically unpalatable and we can't do it because: extremism! and: we might lose! It's a big, fat fucking circle jerk where they keep promising not to do that thing in our mouths if we'll just give them what they want this one last time. Fuck that. I'm done with it.

328 Ok, you don't trust the GOP. Me neither. Does that mean they should dash themselves upon the rocks to placate the base? (if one doesn't believe it's the right move) -- They have lost the base. If they don't get us back, they aren't going to win a g-d thing. I don't know how it is that sane middle class Democrats stuck with their party in the face of the Dem Leadership embracing the Occupy Wall Street movement, but they did. In contrast, every time the the GOP Leadership aligns itself with the Chamber of Commerce, crony capitalist, pro-amnesty crowd, they lose more of their traditional voters. Tossing a couple of pro-life or pro-gun speeches at me is not going to win back my allegiance. Just sayin'.

329 >> I am a huge opponent of AA (don't get me started - ask my friends), but I went back and read Ace's post and don't see what is so objectionable about it. I will check again (I am in another time zone i only scanned hours after it was posted) but he said he would be "OK" with "investigations" if a company's workforce was not representative. I would have socked that as Sharpton and said "that's what I'm talkin about!" and he said something about legal action too i think... I will reread now, but anyone that understands the crooked timber of man would flinch at these small concessions toward tyranny.

330 What do we want? Fiscal sanity. When do we want it? Before the collapse.

331

>>"It seems rather strange to get mad at the guy who pointed out the lie rather than the liars."

 

That's we do now in America. Didn't you get the memo?

332 @ HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:11 AM Cruz is a plant for the Democrats. He is whipping up the reactionaries to damage the republican party.

333 Contrary to common TruCon belief, there are indeed some hills not worth dying on. This is one of them. Getting rid of Obamacare is #1. Debt ceiling as leverage isn't going to work. Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:06 AM (E8IHS) Which is a reasonable argument, if I thought that our leadership were truly committed to representing our interests. As I greatly doubt their commitment to our interests, I must regretfully reject the claim that this is what motivates them. But yes, getting rid of Obamacare WOULD be more important in the short run.

334 Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:14 AM (SY2Kh) You seem to be about the only one who can't figure out what everyone who disagrees with you wants. But this comes as no surprise.

335 Posted by: Jean Paul Getting funnier with each vomit, moby.

336 The debt ceiling brewha is nothing but BS. If the GOP cannot admit that the government wastes so much money, that there are programs, entire departments and even agencies that serve no useful purpose then there is no useful reason to engage them. Especially lying, conniving, backstabbing minions like Mitch the Bitch and Douche L'Orange.

337 It wins us nothing. It helps us lose possible seats. Why would we want this?

What are things Republican's said in the 1850's about slavery?

338 Do some research there are links between Ted Cruz and George Soros. Cruz's dad is a Communist agent of Castro. He is playing you for suckers.

339 Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) hasn't read the comments at February 14, 2014 11:16 AM (zDsvJ) Yep, the GOP base is not like the black vote or any of the other Dem factions. We actually have philosophical reasons for our stances, not just "I want" and "gimme".

340 GOP Creed .....

"We'll fight for you. Unless it's too hard and it doesn't look like a sure win"

341 230?
Mike?
Thanks for the info. I'd guess Lanier is the guy they named the first big bridge and its bigger replacement after.

If I ever wrote seriously again- which I doubt I'll do- I'd write about the strangeness of "Southern Culture." It's a whole 'nother world in itself. "Evening Shade" and "Designing Women" got a small part of it right, but missed a lot via that Hollywood filter.

342 I think Cruz pulled a good one on McConnell (and others) with the objection.

Forced the hand of the RINOs to vote for cloture. It wasn't so much he thought there was a chance to win. It was calling the shameless bastards out.

Tactics like these are informing the electorate and voters are getting wise to the shady tricks that went unnoticed in the past.

343 Cruz is a plant for the Democrats. He is whipping up the reactionaries to damage the republican party. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:17 AM (EszTV) Don't need your help. He represents his constituents, as does his job. My point is, that I, as an outsider, am not required to cheer everything he does and demand that all Morons fall in line with his tactics. In fact I think I'm required to push back on this Futile Gesture Purity Test. I believe that Americans don't want it, and won't want it. If your response is "Let it Burn" then we really have nothing to discuss, because in your mind it's inevitable and politics don't matter anymore.

344 I'm disappointed with Hollowpoint. He didn't say tantrum. Maybe he has the flu.

345 @254 Your concern is noted, troll.

346 *I'm only speaking of shutdown tactics

347 So now bridgegate didn't kill anyone? http://tinyurl.com/lhd2fv9 That can't be true! Mediaite told me an old lady died: http://tinyurl.com/kh4q9bt By this time next week Christie will be a redeemed hero and off to the primaries.

348 Breaking News: Concern Troll is concerned. Film at eleven.

349 Contrary to common TruCon belief, there are indeed some hills not worth dying on. This is one of them. Getting rid of Obamacare is #1. Debt ceiling as leverage isn't going to work. All you have to do is provide substantial evidence that the GOP will do what it is you're wishing they would do. Because the magic eight ball says "All signs are pointing to you're fucking gullible."

350 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:19 AM (EszTV) Thx. That was rather funny.

351 Overall I think Cruz does a bangup job, FWIW. We could use another 20 of him.

352 Cruz's dad is a Communist agent of Castro. He is playing you for suckers. Posted by: Jean Paul No, no. He's shapeshifting alien, you idiot.

353 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:14 AM (EszTV) It's Hector, commenting from his mommies basement back in Albania or whatever eastern bloc hell hole he lives in. Take your meds Hector.

354 Concern Troll, you forgot that you already claimed to have been a supporter of Cruz (following the standard concern-troll stylebook.) Try to keep up your trolling continuity.

355 Because the magic eight ball says "All signs are pointing to you're fucking gullible." Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 14, 2014 11:21 AM (rCOda) so if they won't give you a an inch, you demand a mile? Don't quite get the logic. I barely "trust" the GOP with an inch, a mile is unicorn fantasy.

356 Ted Cruz is a secret Scientologist Communist Canadian Rum Magnate who has travelled to the moon at least twice in order to build the lunar headquarters of our coming One World Government.

357 No, no. He's shapeshifting alien, you idiot. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:21 AM (1Y+hH)


Hmmm.   His eyes are kinda lizardy, now that you mention it.

358 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:19 AM (EszTV) Loosen the strap on your tinfoil hat. Let that little brain breathe for awhile.

359 Hey Hollopoint is OK. It's his party and he can cry if he wants to.

360 Moby dick!

361 Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 14, 2014 11:14 AM (Os+6p) I haven't actually ever said what gender I am. I'm just some strange bird-without having a sex change, I mean. ;^)

362 The DNC loves when their toady GOP cohorts fight the conservatives and encourages them to continue. Please read accordingly .

363 Cruz's dad is a Communist agent of Castro. He is playing you for suckers. Posted by: Jean Paul No, no. He's shapeshifting alien, you idiot. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:21 AM (1Y+hH) No, he's a cyborg sent from the Future to shave Sarah Connor or something.

364 Ted Cruz is a secret Scientologist Communist Canadian Rum Magnate Rum Magnate? Maybe it's time for a GOP recapitulation...

365 268 Cruz's dad is a Communist agent of Castro. He is playing you for suckers. Posted by: Jean Paul No, no. He's shapeshifting alien, you idiot. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:21 AM (1Y+hH) Yes, but is he Reptilian or a Grey? Makes all the difference.

366 Ted Crux killed Kennedy, Lincoln and Jesus, and Jack Ruby too.

367 Tit for tat, baby. Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) hasn't read the comments at February 14, 2014 11:02 AM (zDsvJ) something tells me Gabe is not for tit for tat or tits in general

368 I didn't even want Dave to run for congress because I have a dirty mouth and like my privacy. Posted by: Gingy @GingyNorth That's hot! (kidding)

369 Cruz is a Grey I think.

370 But regardless about what we think about strategy, shutdown theatrics are going to change nothing. So, I sleep well in that. See you in the re-education camps!

371 @ HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 I am tired of these purity tests that many around here admire. Do some research on Ted Cruz, he is not what people think he is. I have uncovered evidence he is a Democrat plant connected to Soros.

372 No, he's a cyborg sent from the Future to shave Sarah Connor or something.



Shave?


"Come with me if you want to be smooth."

373 LOL Mis. ;-)

374 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:17 AM (EszTV) I would like to agree with you, but there is not enough room up your ass for both our heads.

375 >>Do some research there are links between Ted Cruz and George Soros. Cruz's dad is a Communist agent of Castro. He is playing you for suckers.

Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:19 AM (EszTV)"

 

 

 

What's the frequency, Jean Paul?

376 264 Breaking News: Concern Troll is concerned. Film at eleven. Trolls? It's valentine's day, can I come over?

377 "so if they won't give you a an inch, you demand a mile? Don't quite get the logic." So you basically haven't been observing the success of Democrats for the past few decades?

378 FenelonSpoke's a dude, right? A very nice dude who gets mistaken for an 'ette bc he's so nice. And he's not Catholic but knows more about the Catholic church than most Catholics do.

379 I want to believe.

380 Shave?


"Come with me if you want to be smooth."


Posted by: EC at February 14, 2014 11:24 AM (doBIb)


Oh here we go.

381 Face it, all of DC is on the same side. The side that wants the power of spending treasury cash. Sitting on Money is not wealth or power. The guy that guards the bank may guard millions, but he is not wealthy. Wealth (and power) is the ability to *spend* the money. It doesn't matter if it is someone else's money (taxpayers) and being spent on things for other people (the budget,) but the guys in DC understand that the money is what makes them powerful. They would sooner cut off their balls then really cut spending. We need politicians that gain power by sticking to their principals, not by spending our money. We will not turn the country around until we turn the GOP around, and we will not do that with the old DC crowd in leadership now.

382 272 Ted Cruz is a secret Scientologist Communist Canadian Rum Magnate who has travelled to the moon at least twice in order to build the lunar headquarters of our coming One World Government. Posted by: Lincolntf at February 14, 2014 11:22 AM (ZshNr) Quiet now, next thing you know everyone will find out he ghost wrote my books.

383 @ Burn the Witch at February 14, 2014 11:22 AM Do the research on ted Cruz and Soros. You will not like what you find.

384 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:19 AM (EszTV) I guess the asylums in Albania have internet connections.

385 Out before the tin foil Sombrero Mafia.

386 And I have uncovered evidence that Ted Cruz *is* George Soros. Ever seen them in the same room together? I rest my case. It's indisputable.

387 The dingo didn't eat my baby. Ted Cruz *did*!

388 I will check again (I am in another time zone i only scanned hours after it was posted) but he said he would be "OK" with "investigations" if a company's workforce was not representative. I would have socked that as Sharpton and said "that's what I'm talkin about!" and he said something about legal action too i think... I will reread now, but anyone that understands the crooked timber of man would flinch at these small concessions toward tyranny. Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at February 14, 2014 11:16 AM (LWu6U) Oh, that's true. I completely disagree with this point. Frankly, it's no one's business the racial make-up of a company. It's like being upset that there aren't enough black people in figure skating. Sometimes a group of people just tend not to enter a particular field. E.g., my college had lots of Nigerians. We were all over the engineering, science, and business schools but there were few, if any, in the arts and humanities and social sciences (unless they were pre-law poli sci types). Does that prove discrimination? No. Parents were just not willing to pay for those other degrees, which weren't valued in our culture. I believe that if a black person is really good, they'll be valued by their company, all other things being equal. (Of course, there's cronyism and such, but I believe white folks also get shafted by that, too.)

389 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:14 AM (EszTV) Are you related to Mary Cloggenstein or Dorcis (I wish they'd spell their name correctly. ;^) It's "Dorcas" Blimblinder-or whatever the lastt name was.

390

What do we want?

WE DON'T KNOW!

When do we want it?

NOW!

/most commenters in this thread

 

"We" have said quite often and quite in detail, what we want.

 

I understand how you might not have heard, though, with your head so firmly and deeply up your ass.

391 so if they won't give you a an inch, you demand a mile? Don't quite get the logic. I barely "trust" the GOP with an inch, a mile is unicorn fantasy. Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:22 AM (E8IHS) Bullshit. You fully trust the GOP. You agree with their tactics and strategy. You want them to win. You want the folks you don't trust to win?

392 The worship of St. ted of the Cross is no different than the Obama cult.

393 ".” If this is what we are to expect from the revolution — a host of nihilistic, suicidal, performance artists who would rather be outside of the control room screaming than inside and in charge — then give me the cynical calculations of a Mitch McConnell any day of the week." But this is precisely what we get with the Establishment. To me, the debt ceiling was nothing -- the damage was done last month with the budget. There, the Republicans deliberately gave Obama everything demanded. And then, these few dozens who control the purse, went out in the snow to protest legal abortion. After voting to pay for it with tax dollars. I draw a line between people who have no other avenue but protest in snow, and elected members of Congress who can vote down the money. But like Cooke says, they'd rather be protestors than direct events. They'd rather believe that Harry Reid is an immobile rock, and "political reality" is that a month of arguing with Harry Reid will destroy them utterly, somehow.

394 No, no. He's shapeshifting alien, you idiot.

But he's conservative, so he's "not alien enough."

Uncle Earther? 

395 I was not originally a fan of the “tea party” and I’m still not truth be told. I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents say…it’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline,..........

Good gawd I'm so tired of hearing this.  The Tea Party was never about creating converts.  It's not a typical political movement.  It's simply a group of like-minded people focused on government spending.  It's about the money - it's all about the money.

Personally, I think we're way, way too far gone at this point.  There really is no turning back now.  But, there are still some that have hope and are trying to make the Rinos suffer whenever they agree to increase the debt. 

396 Fellate your girlfriend already.

397 The GOP has to compete against bigger numbers, like competing against the Yankees or the Angels

So what to do?

Behave like the Orioles and say "we can't compete with the Yankees and Angels"

Or behave like the Rays and A's and find a way?

398 All I know, is that with "leaders" like McConnell and Boehner, we've got a long way before we're out of the pipe.

399 Troll has exclusive story! Please tell me we haven't gone to print yet. We can at least make the evening edition!

400 From sidebar: ..Clinton would turn 69 two weeks before the ... election Isn't there another way to phrase that?

401 Wait, wait, wait....I am way late to the party but FenelonSpoke is an 'ette???!!!?? Posted by: DangerGirl
.........
Surprised the hell out of me as well when someone mentioned that on the morning thread!

402
Ted Cruz turned me into a newt!

....

I got better.

403 I saw Ted Cruz's face in a piece of toast this morning!

404 Out before the tin foil Sombrero Mafia. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 11:26 AM (6bMeY)


Here.  Lemme just squirt you with this vinegar spray and all will be well.

405 Cooke criticized tea party Congressmen for the shut down, which diverted attention from Obamacare's failures before the election, while praising the leadership yet he never mentions the leadership's push for immigration reform this year which did the same thing. I tweeted this to him and he responded well at least they got the menage from conservatives and dropped it. Did they get the message or is this who they are? Are they a bunch of RINOs, political opportunists, or a group with no discernible ideology?  I believe they love power more than fighting for what's right and difficult to achieve.

406 Ted Cruz is both bigger *and* smaller than a breadbox.

407 Posted by: Frank Black at February 14, 2014 11:23 AM (YmPwQ) The expiration date on that one has passed also. Please be more creative.

408 What do we want?

WE DON'T KNOW!

When do we want it?

NOW!

/most commenters in this thread
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:14 AM

Isn't it the job of all those multimillion dollar consultants you hire to find out what we want?

It's you that needs us, not the other way around

409 I have uncovered evidence he is a Democrat plant connected to Soros. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:24 AM (EszTV) Must have encountered someone who looks like him at their regular meetings.

410 Ted Cruz is calling me....from inside the house!

411

Bravo #13 (D-Lamp) ! Finally, some f'ng relevant insight. D-Lamp writes:

". . . If you capitulate to the other side's premises, you are agreeing to concede the argument. If you DEMAND that your side win, then you are shaping the political reality.

Intransigence is the correct response when you happen to be right."

I'm a big fan of DrewM. but this time he's all wishy/washy, until the last paragraph. This Cook fellow is one of them, a patrician.

412 Ted Cruz skinned Schrodinger's Cat!

413

Ted Cruz is a Serbian!

414 Ted Cruz put the empty milk carton back in the fridge.

415 Ted Cruz hacked my twitter account

416 Ted Cruz don't gots no time fo' the jibba-jabba.

417 You seem to be about the only one who can't figure out what everyone who disagrees with you wants.

Get back to me when the Retard Faction has more to offer than angry platitudes and self-defeating idiocy.

418 Ted Cruz killed JFK. With his mind. And was the man behind Hitler's power.

419

>>"The worship of St. ted of the Cross is no different than the Obama cult. "

 

 

That's "Senator St. Ted of the Cross" to you.

420 If I ever wrote seriously again- which I doubt I'll do- I'd write about the strangeness of "Southern Culture." It's a whole 'nother world in itself. "Evening Shade" and "Designing Women" got a small part of it right, but missed a lot via that Hollywood filter. Posted by: backhoe ------------------------- In the context of earlier times, some very dark shit went on, as a direct consequence of Reconstruction. Faulkner's writing is brimming with it, Tennessee Williams, also Erskine Caldwell and Flannery O'Connor. I've read all I can of those authors, and by 'can', I mean all that I can stand. Too evocative.

421 308 The worship of St. ted of the Cross is no different than the Obama cult. Well, yes it is. Cruz actually knows shit. That is worth worship in today's world. Obama knows nothing if it's not on a tele prompter.

422 Ted Cruz gave me the TANG letters

423 Yes, but is he Reptilian or a Grey? Makes all the difference. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker Reptillian, blow up a photo of him and you'll see.

424 Do the research on ted Cruz and Soros. You will not like what you find. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:26 AM (EszTV) ThinkProgress or MotherJones version?

425 Off Hubbard sock

426

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:30 AM (SY2Kh)

 

 

 

Show us the victories of your strategy?

427

Ted Cruz left the seat up!

428 I believe they love power more than fighting for what's right and difficult to achieve. Posted by: Dr Spank at February 14, 2014 11:28 AM (P1WNR) You nailed it! Until there is a balanced budget amendment, line item vetos and term limits this country will continue to cruise to the burning. States constitutional conventions? Because the gutless, greedy fuckers in D.C. will never go for the 3 point plan I just laid out. I don't want to care, but I do.

429 Ted Cruz gave my ancestors beads in exchange for Manhattan

430 "Bird" is no  longer the word.  "Cruz" is the word.

431 Ted Cruz sank my Battleship!

432 Ted Cruz planted the Piltdown Man.

433 Surprised the hell out of me as well when someone mentioned that on the morning thread! Oh, I missed that. :^) I have a undergrad theatre degree. (oh noes!) I could be anything i want to be on here. i could be male, female, a hermaphrodite, a talking ass (well, I am that sometimes). I am however Fenelon-a Bishop stuck in Cambrai for getting on the wrong side of the King. :^) Really, I am a pastor.

434 Ted Cruz thinks it's nice to fool Mother Nature.

435

>>"Do the research on ted Cruz and Soros. You will not like what you find."

 

Give the troll some credit. He's half right. I didn't like what I found about George Soros. I liked very much what I found about Ted Cruz.

436 "Inauthentic alien"?
"Acting human"?
"House E.T."?

Pearson's Salted Nut Roll!  Crunchy on the outside but white on the inside!

437 Cruz single-handedly conceived of and designed the Nazi heavy water plant in Norway.

438 Ted Cruz is a Serbian! Wrong. I have proof that he's Boggsnian-Herpsagobemian.

439 @ kbdabear at February 14, 2014 11:27 AM Suicidal stands like what St. Ted of the Cross advocates doing is not the way to win.

440 Ted Cruz put the toilet paper in the wrong way. Gaaaah!

441 "We need to win the Senate to give you what you want"

You had the Senate, the House, the White House from 2003-2007

During that time, you would have thought that Nanny Botox was the Speaker since every gripe she had was amplified by the MSM, and the Triumvirate GOP majority gave into her because "we don't want to upset the Vast Moderate Middle and lose our majority"

442 115 DrewMs victimology is also indicated in his headline. Who the fuck asked you to cheer the GOP. Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (pJB7q)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

The legitimate criticisms are ignored and shouted down, what is left but to satirize the foolishness and duplicity of the leadership? 

Have you got anything better than preening fanboyism?

443 Ted Cruz took the Broncos' mojo.

444 Oh, I'm sorry; I'm an Archbishop. My advanced age makes me a little forgetful.

445 Ted Cruz fed me that ham sandwich

446

"Cruz is a plant for the Democrats. He is whipping up the reactionaries to damage the republican party."

 

Oh, for fuck's sake.  This guy isn't real.

447 Really, I am a pastor. Posted by: FenelonSpoke And there aren't many that could hang here. I tip my hat. You understand that you need to congregate with the sinners. ;D

448 Because 60 years ago George Soros knew that the Democrats were going to need a big boost from the failure of another government power grab and hatched his cunning plan to create a right wing extremist who would subvert the GOP by demanding they stick to their party platform. George Soros - what can't he do?

449 Ted Cruz once wiped his ass with a Jean Paul.

450
Ted Cruz changes the station on the car radio when he's not the one driving!

451 Homo antecessor footprint? Planted by Cruz. A ploy to distract conservatives.

452 Ted Cruz sold the Ace of Spades to Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

It's all right there in the entrails, man.

453

There are probably more exceptions I have to Drew's post, but let me just highlight this.

" that losing running candidates like Christine O’Donnell in deep blue states is preferable to winning with a sellout RINO (Note I said “deep blue” not purple or red states) and so on."

 

With all due respect, this is nonsense. You know they held a primary in Delaware right? And Castle went up against O'Donnell in the primary.  Is it the tea party's fault that they turned out more voters than Castle?  More tellingly, had Castle won the primary, would most of the "tea party" types voted for Castle anyway (the answer with extremely high probability is yes), whereas the liberal GOP / GOPe types did not vote for O'Donnell. And time after time, we're excoriated by the establishment saying suck it up and vote for the candidate, but when a tea party type runs, time after time, the same people who tell us to suck it up won't do the same.  Otherwise, you'd have Senator Ken Cuccinelli right now instead of Senator Terry McAuliff.

 

454 @Ron Hubbard at February 14, 2014 11:31 AM St. Ted of the Cross is doing the job the democrats and Soros are paying him to do.

455 Ted Cruz told me to try Ace of Spades

456 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:34 AM (EszTV) I think people are pretty much ignoring you now Erg, or Hector, or Jean, or whatever fool name you wish to disguise your stupidity with lately.

457

Get back to me when the Retard Faction has more to offer than angry platitudes and self-defeating idiocy.

 

So the concept of spending less than you take in is now an "angry platitude?"

 

Asking the GOP House and Senate members to carry out their Constitutional duties as spelled out is "self-defeating idiocy?"

 

You'd better stop fellating Boehner, pal.  All the booze he's been swilling is affecting your brain.

458 Ted Cruz was in charge of the Slopestyle course.

459 Today is a good day to let it burn.  There's just too damn much stupid in this country for it to continue on. 


Car, meet cliff.  Some assembly required.

460 Still waiting for evidence of the Cruz/Soros plot.... OK, spoiler alert. Ted Cruz is George Soros's puppeteer. You heard it here from chique first since Jean Paul is being stingy with his knowledge.

461 Have you got anything better than preening fanboyism? ---------- He may insult you if you're lucky.

462 Look up St. Ted of the Cross and his ties to Soros linked investment firms via his wife.

463
Eric Clapton shot the sheriff.   Ted Cruz shot the deputy.

464 365 Ted Cruz once wiped his ass with a Jean Paul. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 11:35 AM (HVff2) More like, a Jean Paul is *WHAT* he wiped off his ass.

465 Ted Cruz handed out the brown acid.

466
Is that Latin?

Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (6bMeY)

So if I'm reading this post right, cogito, ergo boned.

467 So the concept of spending less than you take in is now an "angry platitude?"

Asking the GOP House and Senate members to carry out their Constitutional duties as spelled out is "self-defeating idiocy?"

You'd better stop fellating Boehner, pal. All the booze he's been swilling is affecting your brain.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 14, 2014 11:36 AM (zF6Iw)

Damnit, I was thinking of posting that very thing, but I thought to myself "Eh, too much maybe."

468 OK, completely off-topic, but I gotta share this recipe by Gordon Ramsay for Shepherd's Pie. It was teh awesome! I even took the time to prepare the mashed potatoes the way he recommends - stirring in some egg yolks with the butter - and it was terrific. http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/ chefs/gordon-ramsay/gordons-shepherds-pie-recipe

469 Get back to me when the Retard Faction has more to offer than angry platitudes and self-defeating idiocy. Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:30 AM (SY2Kh) Sure thing Tiger. We'll meet up when your strategy produces results that don't keep swinging left or losing elections.

470 Ted Cruz is being mind controlled by the reptilian shape shifters.

471 I think, Drew, you don't understand the nature of The Tea Party. It's not interested in being accommodating and winning "converts". Nor is it interested in being mean and pushing people away. The Tea Party is not a political party. It has nothing to do with emotion as you mistakenly think. Rather, it's a philosophical viewpoint representing millions of Americans who are sick of being taxed too much. We don't capitulate and say whatever is popular to win "converts" any more than a christian would. The principle is all that matters.

472 Ted Cruz is responsible for chemtrails.

473 Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:35 AM (1Y+hH) If I need to congregate with the sinners it's only because I am one. :^) Well, that and I enjoy you all-except for the trolls, the trolls-not so much

474 Because 60 years ago George Soros knew that the Democrats were going to need a big boost from the failure of another government power grab and hatched his cunning plan to create a right wing extremist who would subvert the GOP by demanding they stick to their party platform.


George Soros - what can't he do? Posted by: Burn the Witch

How as a notorious capo he hasn't taken a mossad tweaked cell phone up side the head amazes me?

475 355 @ kbdabear at February 14, 2014 11:27 AM

Suicidal stands like what St. Ted of the Cross advocates doing is not the way to win. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:34 AM

Yes, of  course. Caving to Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and telling them beforehand that you won't die on any hill is WINNING

Going after the conservatives more viciously than the Democrats? WINNING

Know what gets me to go out and wait in line to vote? Telling me that if I vote for you and all the stars align, you MIGHT be able to give me 5 percent of what I desire in a candidate but you have to be reasonable and work and play well with Democrats

It really doesn't make it worth my time, and don't give me this "It's YOUR fault America is going to shit because YOU didn't vote for us."

476 Sigh.


I miss TruCon cat.


Oh and MP4, this is for you.


http://bit.ly/1ggisNf

477 @ Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:30 AM The retard faction is being used by Communist plants like St. Ted of the Cross.

478 Ted Cruz designed the floor of the Corvette Museum

479 self-defeating idiocy.

Like immigration "reform", the brainchild of the Chessmaster Faction?

480 "We" have said quite often and quite in detail, what we want.

Right- I forgot that "Just fight", and "DO SOMETHING!" counts as a detailed course of action within the Retard Faction.

And let's not forget the old classic "Keep doing that thing that is guaranteed to fail, this time it'll be different because MAGIC".

481 Ted Cruz runs the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission and the Build A Bear company. Oh and he put strychnine in my guacamole.

482 The performance of the R party the last time it held full majorities and the Presidency is really all you need to review. Spending up 24% in four years, no agencies abolished and a huge prescription drug benefit program for the proles.

483 Ted Cruz sunk my battleship!

484 For a party that enjoys such little power in Washington, this has been pretty good going and, unfashionable as it is, I feel that I should buck the trend and praise the party for playing a difficult round adroitly and with foresight. Well done, McConnell. Well done, Boehner. Now win the Senate in November, and give Â’em merry hell.

This is utter nonsense.  The debt ceiling is a "loser" for the GOP for the following reasons:

1.  the GOP has always voted to raise the debt ceiling in the past b/c the GOP loves spending - therefore it does look bad for the GOP to oppose it now (this is hardly a reason to love the GOP establishment, like the GOP establishment, respect the GOP establishment or vote for the GOP);

2. The GOP can't win tough negotiations because it always, always, always caves and gives the dems what they want.

3.  the last time we did a debt-ceiling showdown, the GOP essentially caved as per 2 above.

4.  this time, McConnell, Boehner and the rest of the establishment announced, well in advance, that they would cave on this.

Putting 2, 3 and 4 together - of course the GOP couldn't fight for anything in return for a debt ceiling hike.  But is that really something to congratulate the GOP establishment about? 

Cooke is arguing that we should give kudos to the GOP for painting themselves into a corner and then taking the assist from the dems to get out of the corner.  that's insane.

When our "smart" people make arguments like this, it is no wonder we can't win and the GOP can't do anything right.  I am honestly aghast at what goes into analysis by people who are allegedly allied with conservatives. 

Yes, I understand that politics has to be played and you can't win them all and some battles are not worth fighting, etc., etc.  But the GOP does this with almost every battle and all of these pundits says the same thing each time.

Surely, some battle at some point in time is worth fighting?  Surely, at some point the party that hold a majority in the house has enough power to get some concession in return for a debt-ceiling hike? 

We have yet to see that issue the GOP feels is worth fighting for. 

To hear these idiots pontificate, the only way the GOP can ever hope to achieve anything is if it has the WH, and super-majorities in both houses, and even then it wouldn't be guaranteed. 

Please.  Enough.  This excuse that "you can't expect perfection" misses a lot of steps - we aren't asking for perfection, we are asking for some common sense, some actual back-bone, some honesty.  We get none of those things from the GOP.  Pundits like Cooke confuse wanting the GOP to stand for something and have some sense of what its about with being "purists".

I'm sick of hearing that because I actually hold the GOP to its campaign and fund-raising rhetoric I am a purist.  I don't expect the GOP to be able to abolish all federal agencies tomorrow and eliminate 50% of laws and 75% of spending.  I do, however, expect them to at least try to reduce spending.  And we don't have anything near that.  that is hardly "purist" or unreasonable and the lame attempts to pretend it is - all so that your "team" can win an election - is absurd.

If the GOP doesn't stand for anything, what is the point in voting for it?

485 Per Empire of Jeff:  I still don't see where they've shaken their ass to earn a tip.

486 Ted Cruz is Obama's real father and mentor. If you guys had done your research like I have, you would no this. Evidence, you say? Do your research. This Cruz fellow is really diabolical.

487 Ted Cruz opened the gateway for the Kaiju.

488 @ kbdabear at February 14, 2014 11:39 AM Your hero St. Ted of the Cross got an epic beat down at the hands of Obama. You reactionaries really think the country is with you. How will you get anything pass just controlling the House? Looking like a bunch of reactionary deranged fools is not how you win the electorate.

489

Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 11:39 AM (Gk3SS)

 

OMG.  When I get back from the bunk, will You tell me who she is, Imperial One?

490 Ted Cruz closed lanes on the GWB

491 "Ted Cruz left the seat up!" Ted Cruz is actually the only man in the world that does. Let that sink in for a moment.

492 Ted Cruz switched the "m" amd the "n" om ny conputer.

493 'Ted Cruz' is the 51st gender choice on facebook.

494 It's scary to me how the GOPe does not seem to realize they've lost their base. They are going to lose seats to the Dems, because they're too proud to listen to their base. I don't care who is in the GOP seats, frankly. I don't spend a lot of time shouting "primary them!" But they are horses in harness for MY use and I reserve the right to use my whip to get them to do what I want.

495 @ : DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 14, 2014 St. Ted of the Cross is from Harvard. He has ties to many of those groups you listed.

496 I'll match Mr. Jean Paul on his conspiracy theories. 


I speculate that Hollowpoint is actually John Boehner, drunk off his ass with nothing to do on Capitol Hill except denigrate those who don't kowtow to his visionary master plan. 


Hey, it might even be true.

497 And let's not forget the old classic "Keep doing that thing that is guaranteed to fail, this time it'll be different because MAGIC". Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:40 AM (SY2Kh) My irony meter just exploded.

498 The retard faction is being used by Communist plants like St. Ted of the Cross.

Cruz isn't a plant.  He's a cynical self-promoter who doesn't care what damage is done to the GOP or conservative movement so long as it leads to a higher profile for himself.

499 (OT...what the fuck is this shit?)

http://is.gd/4KmXre

500 Let that sink in for a moment.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 14, 2014 11:42 AM (rCOda)

----

We leave the seat up so we dont pee all over it.....

Y'all never appreciated the little things we do.... for you.

501 If I need to congregate with the sinners it's only because I am one. :^ Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 14, 2014 11:39 AM (XyM/Y) If any other preacher wrote that, I'd cry 'patronizing'! But not you, Fen, heh.

502 Ted Cruz exited the Pound-Puppy market. At. The. Top.

503 What do we want?

WE DON'T KNOW!

When do we want it?

NOW!

/most commenters in this thread
=============
The couch, toaster and nickle fuckers know what they want . . . .

504

Posted by: Jon in TX at February 14, 2014 11:36 AM (PYAXX)

This is a good point.

It would be nice to assume that everyone broadly classified as being "on the right" is actually on the same team, but we're not.

When it's Establishment vs. Tea Party, and Establishment wins, the Tea Party is told to suck it up and vote for the Establishment anyway.  And they generally do.

When it's Establishment vs. Tea Party and Tea Party wins, the Establishment throws a fit and votes for the Democrat instead.

505 (OT...what the fuck is this shit?) http://is.gd/4KmXre Posted by: HR It's called rogue governance.

506 Ted Cruz told me combovers were in style

507 Ted Cruz uses the express lane even when he has more than ten items.

508 I'd rather see the USA split into several autonomous regions than see it become more of an elitist eurotrash nightmare than it already has under His Royal Assness Obama and his viziers.

509 And let's not forget the old classic "Keep doing that thing that is guaranteed to fail, this time it'll be different because MAGIC".

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:40 AM (SY2Kh)

Do you ever stop to reflect on the things you say?  O_o Or are you so blissfully lacking in self-awareness that you really do not see the irony in this statement.

510 Our Hero of St. Ted of the Cross at least has convictions and beliefs unlike the GOP establishment. Beliefs and convictions are to be displayed all of the time, not just when it is convenient. Math meet burning, burning meet math and hemorrhoid cream meet jean paul

511
Is "reactionary" the new JournaList word of the day???

512 If I ever wrote seriously again- which I doubt I'll do- I'd write about the strangeness of "Southern Culture." It's a whole 'nother world in itself. "Evening Shade" and "Designing Women" got a small part of it right, but missed a lot via that Hollywood filter.

Posted by: backhoe at February 14, 2014 11:19 AM (ULH4o)

I just finished reading "Winter's Bone" a few minutes ago.  Daniel Woodrell does a very good job of making the Ozarks sound weirdly interesting.  The movie was very well done but reading the book always adds a certain X factor.

513 OMG. When I get back from the bunk, will You tell me who she is, Imperial One? Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 14, 2014 11:42 AM (zF6Iw)


*stares*


*stares*


*stares ALL OF IT*


That's Myrna Loy.   I mean, her name's in the link.  Also, and I know, I know, you were distracted, she signed the picture.  Also.  It's MYRNA LOY.  


Are you okay?   Are you smelling burnt toast?  Should we call a doctor? 

514 Ted Cruz told me to make a grille that looked a vagina

515 @ Fyscyl Clyff at February 14, 2014 11:38 AM The Tea Party are a bunch of extremist fanatical jerks. Their worship of St. Sarah of Wasilla and St. Ted of the Cross is no different than the Obama cult.

516 "You reactionaries really think the country is with you." Actually we don't. We're pointing out the fact that it doesn't matter if the country is with us or against us, this cannot continue from a simple mathematical perspective. But you're in a pretty good trolling groove, so keep kicking some serious ass, Champ.

517 Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (ZKzrr) Climate Resilience fund? What the? Climate Resilience fund = slush fund for his green cronies.

518 And I do have a quick guide to cricket...


Quick guide to crickets:

1) Pop open the plugged end of the cricket cage

2) Gently shake a single cricket out through the hole, taking care that others do not get free.

3) Insert the barbed end of the fish hook into the posterior of the cricket and through the abdomen then rotate the hook so that the barbed end exits just behind the cricket's head.

4) Submerge the hook and cricket into waters known to contain fish.

519 Ted Cruz told me I could win the nomination in my sleep

520 The performance of the R party the last time it held full majorities and the Presidency is really all you need to review. Spending up 24% in four years, no agencies abolished and a huge prescription drug benefit program for the proles. Posted by: Meremortal Hollowpoint, with respect, please address the above.

521 410It's scary to me how the GOPe does not seem to realize they've lost their base.

Posted by: Y-not (@MoxieMom) at February 14, 2014 11:42 AM (zDsvJ)

 

The scary part is, of course they know, it just doesn't matter.

522 Ted Cruz is really a Chinese spy planted in Canada by the Vietnamese to take over America for Xenu.

523 Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (ZKzrr) "I believe the odds are that we can expect, as a result of global warming, to see more of this pattern of extreme cold." puff, puff, pass

524 @ Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM The stupid burning times fantasies. You watch too many mad max movies.

525 Cousin Oliver on The Brady Bunch? Ted Cruz's idea.

526 "Cruz isn't a plant. He's a cynical self-promoter who doesn't care what damage is done to the GOP or conservative movement so long as it leads to a higher profile for himself." - Hollowpoint Even if this is true, it wouldn't matter. What matters is that he's fighting for what conservatives believe in. As Milton Friedman explained - you can never know the nature of a man, so we must make it popular to do the things that we think are right. That's what the Tea Party is.

527 Ted Cruz is Godzilla, the GOP establishment is Bambi.

528 @54 For fuck's sake, Mr. Cooke thing do you think we're new? Did all of prior political history up to this point simply not happen?

Printed.

Framed.

Hung on Wall.

529 Cruz isn't a plant. He's a cynical self-promoter who doesn't care what damage is done to the GOP or conservative movement so long as it leads to a higher profile for himself.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (SY2Kh)

Damage to the GoP brand??  DAMAGE?!

Lord have mercy, you are well and truly out of your mind. 

I... no, you know what?  There's nothing that can be said in response to this level of true-believin' nonsense.  o_O There just isn't.

530

" - then give me the cynical calculations of a Mitch McConnell any day of the week."

 

Unfortunately, we only see those cynical calculations when it's reelection time and/or if it's personally beneficial for him.  I'm not judging McConnell on this one vote, but on the machinations behind it, along with his entire performance as the Minority Leader. Personally, I would be pleased as punch if he used any kind of cynical calculation towards defeating Democrats' lies, not just protecting his own ass when it's convenient.

 

And Boehner's a moronic douche for using up valuable time focused on illegal immigration when he could have and should have been strategizing on the debt ceiling.

531
I forgot that "Just fight", and "DO SOMETHING!" counts as a detailed course of action within the Retard Faction.
Posted by: Hollowpoint




Whereas "No Mas!" and "Do Nada!" are the hight of sophisticated political hyper-strategy.

Also, we prefer to be referred to by the more inclusive term People of Tard.

532 I saw Retard Faction open for Cutting Crew at the Great Escape Festival.

533 So if I'm reading this post right, cogito, ergo boned. Posted by: IllTemperedCur --------------------- I am so stealing that..

534 Actually we don't. We're pointing out the fact that it doesn't matter if the country is with us or against us, this cannot continue from a simple mathematical perspective. I think most 'realists' who discuss the 'reality' of politics believe we can run on fake money forever. It's just a talking point to use during campaigns to say otherwise.

535 How does Cruz poll with Spanish speakers?

536 425 And let's not forget the old classic "Keep doing
that thing that is guaranteed to fail, this time it'll be different
because MAGIC".


Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:40 AM (SY2Kh)

Do you ever stop to reflect on the things you say? O_o Or are you so blissfully lacking in self-awareness that you really do not see the irony in this statement.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (9LuAk)

I read that and assumed he was arguing against the establishment.  I guess voting for the GOP time in and time out and expecting a different result doesn't depend on MAGIC?

I guess tomorrow the GOP will do something different than it has in the past.  the GOP has always increased spending - so maybe next time they will magically decide to reduce spending?

The GOP has always increased the size of gov't.  So maybe next time they will magically reduce gov't?

I'm not sure what the magic will be.  Maybe McConnell will magically NOT give Harry Reid whatever Harry Reid wants next time?

537 I think it's not an exaggeration to say that the establishment politicians are out of touch with average middle-class Americans, both on the Left and the Right. For every Republican disillusioned with McConnell and Boehner, there is a Dem disillusioned with Bammers. I see people on the Left grow tired of NSA spying on them, of over-zealous gov regulators crushing small independent farmers raising organic crops, and I see people on the Right grow tired of the IRS harassing Tea Party groups, and the government incrementally stripping our rights while ruining the healthcare system. There is a huge and growing body of people who are distrustful of the government and want it the hell out of their life. If some young Republicans could shed the unelectable social-conservatism baggage and tap into this body, they would destroy Dems in elections.

538 "You reactionaries really think the country is with you." On the contrary, we don't think that at all.

539 I am ROTFLMAO at the characterization of Ted Cruz as being UNIQUE on Capitol Hill for being a cynical self-promoter. News flash. He's a politician. *I* have no illusions about that. I'm not jerking off to post-election defeat movie biographies of the dude. That would be the GOPe set. But he happens to be a politician who is doing what I want him to do. And he does so in a way that articulates the underlying principles I care about. So he's my flavor of the week for as long as he does that.

540 This debt ceiling vote was a KNOWN issue. They had MONTHS to figure out what to do... months to plan. I once killed a project I did not like, by NOT giving my normal leadership... calling a meeting and just letting it run... That is what happened here. The GOP leadership did not want any type of fight to distract from Obamacare... except for the Amnesty fight apparently... Note, they were strong enough to force the Caucus to Vote to Cut Military Retiree COLAs... something the base was TRULEY against... yet could not find even a NUMBER to raise the debt limit, so they SUSPENDED it? Crocodile tears... and Kabuki theatre IMO.

541 Ted Cruz is Godzilla, the GOP establishment is Bambi. Posted by: ExSnipe ----------------- Roadrunner, Wile E. Coyote

542 Do you ever stop to reflect on the things you say? O_o Or are you so blissfully lacking in self-awareness that you really do not see the irony in this statement.

You mean the self-awareness required to understand why another destined-to-fail shutdown over the debt ceiling is a dumb idea?

Or that nominating buffoons like Steve Stockman probably isn't a good idea after seeing so many buffoons before him lose?

That kind of self-awareness?

543 Ted Cruz is the reason the weather is too warm in Sochi for the Winter Olympics.

544 Curse that St Ted of the Cross and his infernally expensive bears!!!!

545 The Tea Party are a bunch of extremist fanatical jerks. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (EszTV) Ok, which one of you morons gave Jean Paul a purple nurple and a wedgie back in the day.

546

Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 11:45 AM (Gk3SS)

 

Myrna Loy?

 

Myrna Fucking LOY?

 

**hangs head in shame**  Well, that's it.  I had a good run, but it's gone.  I coulda been a contenda.  I coulda been somebody.  Instead I am a nobody, a nothing, a sideshow of a sideshow is what I am.

 

I honestly couldn't read the signature.  And that must have been taken during Loy's "Oriental" period, which does fool me sometimes.

 

But that hat!  She could trade with Doris Costello:  http://tinyurl.com/l6ton58

 

547 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (EszTV) Burning times? Hmmm if it wasn't so why are all of the alphabet agencies stock piling up on ammo? I like the fact that the weatherman from NWS needs a .308 sniper riffle to tell me when the sun is to rise/set and the high/low temps of the day. Silly troll.

548 Right- I forgot that "Just fight", and "DO SOMETHING!" counts as a detailed course of action within the Retard Faction. Perhaps you could explain how the strategy of "We need to just sit down, shut up, and vote like Democrats" is going to translate to a massive migration to the GOP side.

549 Ted Cruz made my blue eye brown.

550 Speaking of cheering, the NRSC gave McConnell a "Hero's welcome" yesterday. These people, our party, are beaten-wife masochists on steroids. They love taking a beating from the Left. It's tantamount to heroism.

551 "The Tea Party are a bunch of extremist fanatical jerks." You write that like it's a bad thing, Tory.

552 $2.2 billion spent to for cooking in-flight.  Solar farm on Federal land cooks birds in mid-air.  Anyone who reads science fiction, are you reminded of the Slaver race's sunflowers?

http://tinyurl.com/kupu4t2

553 You guys hate the Senate, but then Ted Cruz is in the Senate. HYPOCRISY!!!111

554 428?
Cap'N Hate?

Thanks for the info- I'll look for it.

555 If some young Republicans could shed the unelectable social-conservatism baggage and tap into this body, they would destroy Dems in elections. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (BOBhx) Or, you know maybe they could also try to make it cool not to spread your seed all over town or give it up to everyone who comes knocking. They could frame it as being avant-garde and rebellious and edgy and non-conformist.

556 Looks like we got two trolls, one cup.

557 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (BOBhx) NOte... the GOP could not even put something in the Ceiling Bill to LIMIT Spying on Americans?

558 Romney/Bush 2016!!!!!

559 Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying?

560 On the contrary, we don't think that at all. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (1Y+hH) Exactly. A source of pride I might add.

561 Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (EszTV)

----

Tell you what champ....  Come to my town someday and I'll introduce you to the nice old Polish lady down my street.   Once you get to know her ... she might show you this awesome tatoo she got a place called Teblinka.

You can ask her how much fantasy goes into "the burning times".

562 This is a good point. It would be nice to assume that everyone broadly classified as being "on the right" is actually on the same team, but we're not. When it's Establishment vs. Tea Party, and Establishment wins, the Tea Party is told to suck it up and vote for the Establishment anyway. And they generally do. When it's Establishment vs. Tea Party and Tea Party wins, the Establishment throws a fit and votes for the Democrat instead. Posted by: chemjeff at February 14, 2014 11:44 AM (Hvt9o) For every O'Donnell we have a Thompson, Whitman, Fiorina, McMahon, Rossi, etc etc. The only establishment candidate that lost with dignity was Norton (If I recall correctly her name) in the Colorado primary against Ken Buck. She endorsed him after the election was over.

563 465 Ted Cruz made my blue eye brown. Posted by: Crystal Gayle at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (7ObY1) You too?

564 "Cruz isn't a plant." Yes he is. He's the Venus Flytrap of politics, and the GOP establishment are the flies.

565 Also, we prefer to be referred to by the more inclusive term People of Tard. Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 14, 2014 11:47 AM (kdS6q) And as People of Tard we qualify as an underserved population. My subsidy awaits!

566 The bomb that exploded in the Anteverse and closed off the Kaiju's gateway? Cruz' sperm was the fissile material.

567 Or, you know maybe they could also try to make it cool not to spread your seed all over town or give it up to everyone who comes knocking.

Whoa.  Remember, we had that thread a couple weeks ago...It's unreasonable to expect a healthy adult to show any sexual restraint at all.  Ever.  O_o 

568 OT: Federal judge mistakes line from Declaration of Independence as coming from the US constitution as grounds to strike down gay marriage ban.

"Our Constitution declares that 'all men' are created equal. Surely this means all of us," Judge Allen wrote on the first page of her opinion. That line opens the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence and appears nowhere in the Constitution.

http://tinyurl.com/qbsxbhf

569

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (SY2Kh)

 

 

Show us the victories of your strategy?

570 Ted Cruz created Kaboom cereal. It's true.

571 **hangs head in shame** Well, that's it. I had a good run, but it's gone. I coulda been a contenda. I coulda been somebody. Instead I am a nobody, a nothing, a sideshow of a sideshow is what I am.

I honestly couldn't read the signature. And that must have been taken during Loy's "Oriental" period, which does fool me sometimes.

But that hat! She could trade with Doris Costello: http://tinyurl.com/l6ton58

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing, Proud Member of the Retard Faction at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (zF6Iw)


*pats shoulder*


There, there.   Everything's going to be fine.  alex is here.

572 A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go. -- Maxim # 30 of The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries. I would not trust Boehner or McConnell to hold my place in a queue. Mew

573 "News flash. He's a politician. *I* have no illusions about that." So you picked up on Hollowpoint's silly assed lectures about politicians being self-serving, but Cruz, TED CRUUUUUZ by God is fucking scum!

574

Yeah well Cooke admires Bill Clinton, so there's that.  Let It Burn, baby, Let It Burn.  Milton Wolfe in Kansas in his ads, calling himself "The Conservative Candidate", not "Republican", for his primary against Pat Roberts. 

575 453?
Roadrunner?

That is exactly why I got involved with both Island and Mainland chapters of the TEA party here- they-- the politicians- were not listening to us.

576 Actually we don't. We're pointing out the fact that it doesn't matter if the country is with us or against us, this cannot continue from a simple mathematical perspective.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 14, 2014 11:46 AM (rCOda)



************************************

^^this. We need to be ready.

577 Ted Cruz ate a 2 pound bag of Haribo Sugar Free Gummy Bears. Still regular.

578 The stupid burning times fantasies. You watch too many mad max movies. Posted by: Jean Paul ---------------- Yeah..., it's just a twisted apocalyptic fantasy. Might as well check the real news : http://mashable.com/2014/01/22/kiev-riots-deadly-photos/

579 @ Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM That smirk St. Ted of the Cross has on his face is a dead give away. he is playing these people for fools. Look at the fanatic god like worship of this clown people are showing on this thread.

580 As long as we're going to give someone the title of 'of the cross" I'll go with "St John of the Cross" one of the greatest mystics the church ever produced and had a heroic of constancy despite persecution: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=65 Besides that Ted Cruz doesn't use that appelation of "the cross' though he is a Christian. in my opinion. it negates whatever points you were trying to make by including that dismissive title. Unless, of course you meant he's a hero to a number of conservatives. I like him but nobody is my Messiah, but the actual one.

581 Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM Yes, I read his comment, despite my better judgment.

582 Posted by: HR at February 14, 2014 11:53 AM (ZKzrr) I actually did miss that thread. It was referred to later in comments of other threads. Need to go look it up some time.

583 475 Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying? Posted by: Animal-S at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (qPxLX) I saw Mini-Memes open for They Might be Giants... at Giants Stadium in San Fran in 86....

584 Meant "had a history of heroic constancy despite persecution."

585

You mean the self-awareness required to understand why another destined-to-fail shutdown over the debt ceiling is a dumb idea?

Or that nominating buffoons like Steve Stockman probably isn't a good idea after seeing so many buffoons before him lose?

That kind of self-awareness?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (SY2Kh)

Or the self-awareness required to understand that the policies you spend your time decrying are the only thing that will actually save this not-worth-saving-anymore country? 

Or the self-awareness required to understand that the people you throw your weight behind have shown no interest at any point in recent time, or not-so-recent time, of implementing policies that do anything but imperceptibly slow the hemorrhaging of the nation's little remaining virtue and treasure? 

How about the self-awareness required to understand that everything you argue for is nothing less than self-deceit, preparing for a set of circumstances favorable to your victory that will never come in your lifetime. 

...The truth is one of two things.  Either you truly believe in this foolishness, and really do lack the self-awareness to see the ways in which the GOP and your ideas are bound to fail, or... you know all this is true, and realize the battle is lost, and so you feel left with no options but to rage against the dying of the light. 

And I really can't tell which it is.  Funny thing, though, is that I don't think you can either.

586 The bomb that exploded in the Anteverse and closed off the Kaiju's gateway?

Cruz' sperm was the fissile material. Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (da5Wo)



Okay, now you are purposefully taunting Happy Fun Alex.

587 OK, haterz, gotta go. Have a good day. Keep those blood pressure meds handy!

588 >>Show us the victories of your strategy? Obama's approval ratings are in the toilet and his second term agenda is pretty much done. Obamacare is crashing and burning and for the first time most Americans want it gone. Obama's lawlessness due to his desperation over Obamacare is being demonstrated to the world and he is losing favor in a huge way. The Senate is very much in play where it wasn't last fall. Your victories with the shutdown?

589 @ Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM A bunch of protests by Communists are not this Mad Max burning times you jerk off about.

590 Actually we don't. We're pointing out the fact that it doesn't matter if the country is with us or against us, this cannot continue from a simple mathematical perspective. --------- I post again: "Truth is powerful, and will prevail when none care whether it prevail or not." - Coventry Patmore

591

Just exactly how is the GOPe going to give them "merry hell" even if they win the Senate.  They won't have votes to overcome any veto.

 

So, what's the point.

 

Before we fight we must have the House, a 60 vote margin in the Senate, and the Presidency.

 

Watch out guys, that's when we'll really fight for principle.  That's the only time we can according to the most feckless, pussy, stupid piece of shit "intelligentsia" that I have ever seen advising the GOP.

 

And you wonder why we keep fucking losing.

592 Here's the problem with the establishment groupies.

they pretend each issue is just a single issue - a stand alone thing.

so, for this debt ceiling debacle, they pretend - hey, it's just this one time, there was nothing the GOP could do, let it go.

But, they refuse to look at the last 20 years of what the GOP has actually done and realize it isn't just this one time. 

It's not like the GOP has built up a huge well of credibility by valiantly fighting for spending reductions and limiting gov't.  The GOP has not done that.  the GOP has gone the other way and increased spending and increased gov't.  The GOP has no credibility and that is the GOP's fault.

the apologists pretend that's not the case.  "what did you want to do, fight a losing battle and look stupid".  Well, had the GOP done anything remotely sane, this would not have been such a losing battle.  Of course when you tell the other side you are going to fold, you can't bluff.  Claiming that is a smart move is insane. 

You can argue that because of circumstances the GOP had no option but to cave on the debt ceiling.  That's fine.  But, the GOP put itself into that position willingly.  That is the problem.  It's not this particular defeat per se - its that sums up the GOP's essence perfectly and the GOP is pretty much useless. 

If your only care is that republicans win elections, and you don't care about what republicans actually do in office - then fine, keep rooting for the GOP blindly.  Otherwise, your adoration of the GOP is sorely misplaced.

593 I jerk off to Boehner's beautiful, silky, tangerine skin.

594 Yeah I kinda agree that the "Burning Times" predictions are a bit more of wishful thinking than of a pre-ordained conclusion.

Yeah I suppose there could be violent revolution and mass upheavel in the coming years.  But what are the odds of that happening, really, compared to the odds of simply continuing along our current trajectory of malaise?

595 413 And let's not forget the old classic "Keep doing that thing that is guaranteed to fail, this time it'll be different because MAGIC". Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:40 AM (SY2Kh) << 1. It's not guaranteed to fail 2. It fails because Republicans vote with Democrats for no gain at all 3. Maybe Republicans will stop voting with Democrats for no gain at all 4. If Republicans won't stop voting with Democrats for no gain at all, perhaps we should make them do it often so they are marked for defeat in November 5. Maybe if we lose enough stupid Republicans we can get some who don't vote for Democrats for no gain at all I prefer this to your master plan which is 1. Vote with Democrats 2. Tell everyone its not your fault 3. Hope that everyone appreciates you for opposing what you voted for, because you can't persuade them of your own efforts 4. Clubbing everybody who questions the wisdom of this policy

596 A bunch of protests by Communists are not this Mad Max burning times you jerk off about. Posted by: Jean Paul ---------- Communist protestors? You may want to look into things a little more.

597 Mm, mmm, mm! Rafael Edward Cruz He said that all must lend a hand To make this country strong again Mmm, mmm, mm! Rafael Edward Cruz He said we must be fair today Equal work means equal pay Mmm, mmm, mm! Rafael Edward Cruz He said that we must take a stand To make sure everyone gets a chance Mmm, mmm, mm! Rafael Edward Cruz

598 AlextheChick, BCochran is just sharing his unhappiness with life with everyone.  Something about hotel room and drunken midgets I think.

MPPP, you got distracted by the bra, just admit it.  You were mesmerized.

599 And that sensitively shit?  I laughed out loud at that.  Voters gave the GOP the house to stand up for us, not to be fucking sensitive.

600 Ted Cruz killed Bambi.

601 Once you ask the serious questions, they all leave the arena.

602 I saw the Unfunny Mini-Memes open for Big in Japan at the Echo Arena.

603 If some young Republicans could shed the unelectable social-conservatism baggage and tap into this body, they would destroy Dems in elections. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (BOBhx) ____________ I've been saying this for years. Sadly, it falls on dead ears.

604 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (g1DWB) Sorry, but those victories have nothing to do with the GOP. They are all Obama's doing and happened even after the supposedly disastrous shutdown.

605

"Our Constitution declares that 'all men' are created equal. Surely this
means all of us," Judge Allen wrote on the first page of her opinion.
That line opens the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence
and appears nowhere in the Constitution.

 

So. . .wouldn't that invalidate her opinion?

606

And for all the carping and bitching about the shutdown, you have NO EVIDENCE that it hurt the GOP.  Not in the slightest.

 

But continue your animal farm braying  shut down baaaaaaddddddd.

 

Why was it bad?  Because I said so.  Evidence?  It's just bad.  We can't win.  We have no CARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Words of a winner right there those are.

607 Speaking of burning times, is Venezuela still out of toilet paper?

608 Looks like we got two trolls, one cup. Our cup runneth over.

609 The cows came home.

610 Lifelong Consevative here, and let me tell you, I'm very Very VERY concerned about Ted Cruz.

611 Yeah I kinda agree that the "Burning Times" predictions are a bit more of wishful thinking than of a pre-ordained conclusion.

Yeah I suppose there could be violent revolution and mass upheavel in the coming years. But what are the odds of that happening, really, compared to the odds of simply continuing along our current trajectory of malaise?

Posted by: chemjeff at February 14, 2014 11:58 AM (Hvt9o)

Whats your plan for the 90T in future obligations the baby boomers will be leaving us and our kids?

612 475 Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying? Yes. Yes you are. Next question?

613
Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying?

Posted by: Animal-S at February 14, 2014 11:52 AM (qPxLX)

I saw Unfunny Mini-Memes open for the Crash Test Dummies at Lollapalooza in '97.

614

>>Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (g1DWB)

 

Perfect representation of the defeatist choplogic, entrenched passivity and inverted reality of the RINO. NONE -- not one -- of those things you listed is a victory. They're all failures of Obama. And, in addition, in not one of those cases is the GOP even attempting to drive a narrative -- they're simply allowing a supposed momentum or drift of failure to persuade people to support them.

You people are such fucking losers. You will ALWAYS lose to the Left. That's why we need to rout you out of your sinecures.

615 There, there. Everything's going to be fine. alex is here. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 11:54 AM (Gk3SS) *stuffs Admiral Ackbar in a sack to muffle him*

616 Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (P03XK)

----

meh.... get in line.... lot of that going 'round.

617 Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:43 AM (SY2Kh) You do realize that Jean Paul is an idiot troll?

618 Ahhhh, the Sick Fuck Himself™ shows up at last.

619 Shuttup and vote GOP , wingnuts.

620 Even if this is true, it wouldn't matter. What matters is that he's fighting for what conservatives believe in.

And how has that worked out?  What has he actually accomplished other than getting more face time on TV and shallow hero worship?

Know why there's no fight over the debt ceiling this time?  Because that card was already wasted on a destined-to-fail shutdown initiated by Cruz for the sole purpose of his own self-promotion.

621 Obama's approval ratings are in the toilet and his second term agenda is pretty much done. Obamacare is crashing and burning and for the first time most Americans want it gone. Obama's lawlessness due to his desperation over Obamacare is being demonstrated to the world and he is losing favor in a huge way. The Senate is very much in play where it wasn't last fall. Your victories with the shutdown? Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (g1DWB) WAIT. You are attributing all of that to the GOP? What the hell are you smoking. Most of that fallout is from Obamacare, an issue that is entirely of the democrats making and of which the GOP, establishment or otherwise, had no part in. The GOP leadership has been desperately trying to get traction to lose with amnesty though.

622 >>Sorry, but those victories have nothing to do with the GOP. They are all Obama's doing and happened even after the supposedly disastrous shutdown. Actually they did. Anyone with half a brain knew this was where we would end up if we just got the hell out of the way and let Obamacare go ahead. Trying to stop it or go through a shutdown had no benefit because it would never work and actually by delaying Obamacare we would have helped the left. Have you noticed that Obama has been doing exactly what Cruz wanted him to do, delay the worst parts of Obamacare. Why? Because it helps Obama.

623 Dear Charles, We're done. Thanks for chiming in though.

624 *stuffs Admiral Ackbar in a sack to muffle him* Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 14, 2014 12:01 PM (da5Wo)


I can be comforting!   I can!   I can too!   Stop.  That.  Laughing.  


What is it that you are doing tonight?   What is it that I am doing?

I win, bitches. 

625 Obama's approval ratings are in the toilet and his second term agenda is pretty much done.

Obamacare is crashing and burning and for the first time most Americans want it gone.

Obama's lawlessness due to his desperation over Obamacare is being demonstrated to the world and he is losing favor in a huge way.

The Senate is very much in play where it wasn't last fall.

Your victories with the shutdown?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (g1DWB)

None of those are GOP victories - they are Obama failures.  they are just as much Tea Party victories as GOP victories.  More so, really.

but, your argument is that the GOP may win control of the senate due to Obamacare.  yeah?  And then? 

McConnell and Boehner have both made clear they don't intend to repeal Obamacare, only "fix" it.  We'll get amnesty.  The GOP has never reduced spending.  On the contrary, when in charge they spent like drunken sailors.  the GOP has never really delivered on any conservative goals except reducing taxes. 

so, arguing that the GOP may win the Senate due to the massive failure that is Obmacare is a) not proving the GOP is worthy of a vote and b) doesn't answer any arguments.  All you are saying is "yay, my team may win and I don't care what they do once in office!!!!"

626

rrpjr:

 

Hear!  Hear!  I like jackstraw a lot but letting the whole country get fucked over by Obama's policies are not the "strategy" of the GOP.

 

That's the strategy.  Let all the bad shit happen and the poison sink in deeper???

 

Good one guys, good one.

627 Happy Valentine's Day Betsy.

628 Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying? Probably.

629 I am undecided on this topic.

630 If some young Republicans could shed the unelectable social-conservatism baggage conservative base, including the 'Reagan Democrats'.." FIFY Because that strategy worked for..., uh, uh,....

631 I've been saying this for years. Sadly, it falls on dead ears. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (0LHZx) Yup.... can't talk about the East, or South... but a Libertarian Light GOP message would sweep even California. But part of the problem is the GOP brand is so tainted for so much of the Electorate that its scary. Many out here will NEVER vote for a GOP candidate even if they agreed with absolutely everything they said.

632 Yes, let's let society continue to devolve so that we humans behave like animals with no self-control, responsibility, or accountability. There's no way that will end poorly. Those socons are so icky.

633 Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 11:56 AM (g1DWB) Obama accomplished all that on his own, not becuase of anything they did. Still waiting for the explanantion of why I should support a party that when it held majorities of both houses and the presidency, and gave us 24% higher federal spending over 4 years, abolished not a single agency, and passed a federal drug prescription benefit that will cost $560 billion over the first 10 years of its permanent life.

634 Nood.

635 So. . .wouldn't that invalidate her opinion? Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing, Proud Member of the Retard Faction at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (zF6Iw) No, her being a FUCKING DOLT invalidates her opinion. This is reversible error that provides clear evidence for a successful appeal. Assuming that this is literally what she based her opinion on.

636 Ahhh, Hollowpoint, still making baseless assertions (that Cruz has hurt the GOP) and never answering questions asked of him (where are the results of his preferred strategies?). SSDD

637 And they escape again without answering the question.

638 Yes, let's let society continue to devolve so that we humans behave like animals with no self-control, responsibility, or accountability. There's no way that will end poorly.

Those socons are so icky.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (r+7wo)

Ma'am,  I submit that, to certain posters among us, that would be a feature, and not a bug.

639 When you cruise with cruz, you don't need a comb.

640 I've been secretly told that if we just stand firm and continue to vote for the GOP no matter what, they will really, really, really reduce spending and stuff next time.  Shhhh - you're not supposed to tell anyone.

641 If Christine O'Donnell ran for Senate in Kansas, she'd still be a barkingly stupid dingbat.

642 "Or, you know maybe they could also try to make it cool not to spread your seed all over town or give it up to everyone who comes knocking. They could frame it as being avant-garde and rebellious and edgy and non-conformist." Or we could remember that it's not the government's role to legislate morality. Paternalism is unsexy, regardless of whether it's from social conservatives worried about what happens in my bedroom, or leftists who are worried about virtually everything I do outside my house.

643 If some young Republicans could shed the unelectable social-conservatism baggage and tap into this body, they would destroy Dems in elections. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 11:49 AM (BOBhx) All this demonstrates is that you have a simplistic understanding of the nature of the problem. Fiscal insanity is part and parcel of social liberalism. How the fuck do you think we got to this level of fiscal insanity?

644 What is it that you are doing tonight? What is it that I am doing? I win, bitches. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (Gk3SS) Plans have changed. The wife will be coming home with us on Saturday. The kids are still spending the night at my parents. So I have Saturday afternoon and most of the day Sunday with no one in hte house but the wife and I. You were saying?

645

OK, I've got to leave for the weekend.  Stay warm, happy and safe, all of you.

 

And now, direct from the bar - Dean Martin!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxVdjw0Gm8I

646 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (BOBhx) Where did I mention legislation? And yes, the govt does legislate morality - theft and rape are illegal.

647 The Quintronic Society Quadronic Rocket Society Tetratronic Space Vacations Betatronic Flying Saucers The Alphatronic Rocket Vacations Asteroid Society Android Planets Humanoid Society Humans

648 "I've been saying this for years. Sadly, it falls on dead ears." It will keep happening until conservatives realize that they can't rail against leftist paternalism while advocating their own soft-paternalism on social issues.

649 Obama accomplished all that on his own, not becuase of anything they did. Still waiting for the explanantion of why I should support a party that when it held majorities of both houses and the presidency, and gave us 24% higher federal spending over 4 years, abolished not a single agency, and passed a federal drug prescription benefit that will cost $560 billion over the first 10 years of its permanent life. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (1Y+hH) You know what is even better? Voting for a guy who was the GOP whip in the Senate for that entire time things went to shit. The GOP whip in the Senate that coerced Senators to vote for Medicare expansion, amnesty, spending to which there was no end, etc, etc. The GOP whip? Mitch McConnell.

650 Know why there's no fight over the debt ceiling this time? Because that card was already wasted on a destined-to-fail shutdown initiated by Cruz for the sole purpose of his own self-promotion.

Uh, your own oft-stated position is that the Chessmaster Faction is choosing not to fight for anything to avoid getting headlines which will distract from Obamacare (let's ignore immigration "reform", because it destroys your idiotic case, but whatever).

And now you're pretending Boehner would've engaged Beast Mode ... THIS time ... if not for that meddling Cruz?

Make up your mind.

651 You mean the self-awareness required to understand why another destined-to-fail shutdown over the debt ceiling is a dumb idea? Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (SY2Kh) If it is destined to fail, it is because the Republican leadership will simply not fight for it's success. Once again, I point out that Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill would have done it anyway.

652 "Obama's approval ratings are in the toilet and his second term agenda is pretty much done. " He's in the low to mid 40s. I woldn't say that's quite in the toilet. And besides, it doesn't matter. He's doing whatever he wants. And nobody in the spineless GOP ***EXCEPT*** Cruz is standing up to him.

653 >>WAIT. You are attributing all of that to the GOP? What the hell are you smoking. Most of that fallout is from Obamacare, an issue that is entirely of the democrats making and of which the GOP, establishment or otherwise, had no part in. The GOP leadership has been desperately trying to get traction to lose with amnesty though. There are many ways to oppose your opponent. One of the oldest strategies is when your opponent is in the process of beating themselves get the hell out of the way. Obamacare launched on the exact same day as the government shutdown. Guess what got all the coverage? And you want to do that again?

654 557 If Christine O'Donnell ran for Senate in Kansas, she'd still be a barkingly stupid dingbat. Posted by: packsoldier at February 14, 2014 12:07 PM (WYFnZ) That would be Senator Christine O'Donnell from Kansas to you peasant!

655 So I have Saturday afternoon and most of the day Sunday with no one in hte house but the wife and I.

You were saying? Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at February 14, 2014 12:09 PM (da5Wo)


Good for you guys.   No, I'm not being snarky that is wonderful.


I have a four day weekend.  Is what I was saying.

656 Know why there's no fight over the debt ceiling this time? Because that card was already wasted on a destined-to-fail shutdown initiated by Cruz for the sole purpose of his own self-promotion.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 12:02 PM (SY2Kh)

------------

Hollowpoint - This^ is probably the most asinine statement I've ever read on this blog.  If Cruz is only interested in self-promotion, then why is he so unpopular among his own colleagues? 

Ted Cruz has the same philosophy as I do. When I go to work each day, I'm not going to work to make friends.  I go to work to get shit done while following my core principles.  If that offends some people, tough shit.

657 "Where did I mention legislation? And yes, the govt does legislate morality - theft and rape are illegal. " Nope, they protect individual rights (or at least are supposed to). The government shouldn't stop rape because it is immoral, but because it violates individual rights. Being a bad husband and staying late at the bar every night instead of spending time with your kids is immoral, but the government doesn't need to be monitoring your bar-hopping habits. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. If you can't discern protecting individual rights from legislating morality, then inevitably you will advocate your own form of soft-paternalism.

658 Or that nominating buffoons like Steve Stockman probably isn't a good idea after seeing so many buffoons before him lose? That kind of self-awareness? Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 14, 2014 11:50 AM (SY2Kh) I suspect you are a John Cornyn supporter living in Texas, or perhaps even a member of his staff. Few others would likely go out of their way to portray Stockman as a buffoon.

659 What is it that you are doing tonight? What is it that I am doing? I win, bitches. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 12:03 PM (Gk3SS) Drive to the Mountains today... dinner right on the Beach in Lake Tahoe... hotel room with a fire... and getting my soul sucked out by my Ginger Girlfriend...

660 counts as a detailed course of action within the Retard Faction.

Example #1 ignore_user

Always wrong, insulting and not funny.  Please stop quoting maybe it'll go away.

661 So. . .wouldn't that invalidate her opinion?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing, Proud Member of the Retard Faction at February 14, 2014 11:59 AM (zF6Iw)

**************************

Unfortunately, an appeal that made that exact point would go to the Fourth Circuit, which would bend over backwards to find a way to deny the appeal. Then eventually to the Supreme Court, which would rule, as in California, that the petitioners have no standing because the state government won't defend the case. This was set in place when Virginia elected a Democrat Attorney General who promptly switched sides on the issue within days of being sworn in. Or he showed his true side **wink wink, nod nod** because the election was over.

662 >>Once again, I point out that Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill would have done it anyway. And once again I will point out that this isn't the 1980s. Obama isn't Reagan. Reagan comprised with O'Neil. Obama is a destructive nihilist who doesn't give a shit about compromise. He's not in this to govern like Reagan, he is in this to "fundamentally transform" America. You know this. Hell, nobody was more vocal on Obama's foreign birth and foreign ideology than you. Why in God's name would you expect Obama to act like Reagan let alone in America's best interest when he has shown repeatedly that he will do just the opposite is a mystery.

663 Why I Refuse To Cheer The GOP “Establishment” Yesterday I went on a Twitter rant (that’s what it’s for, right?) against Mitch McConnell’s debt ceiling shenanigans (the old, vote for cloture when you could stop it but against the bill on final passage when you can’t trick). HQ and personal favorite Charles C.W. Cooke replied to one of the tweets. @DrewMTips This is a completely insane thing to say, Drew. — Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) February 13, 2014 He followed up by saying he’d be writing more about it later. And that he did in a piece entitled “In Praise of the Establishment” Still, all of that notwithstanding, many conservatives have of late demonstrated a worrying tendency to believe that the virtue of their grievances and the legitimacy of their pursuits must automatically translate into political victory — and that if these do not, that this is the fault of the leadership of the Republican party. I appreciate that this is difficult for some to hear, but I would venture that the opposite is the case. In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. The hysterical epithets and acronyms, the witless talk of the amorphous “Establishment,” and the lucrative fundraising e-mails all to one side, there is little that either man could have done differently while their party controlled just one half of one branch of government. … “I’d be willing to risk losing the Senate if we could keep America,” Mitch McConnell’s primary challenger, Matt Bevin, told Glenn Beck this morning. What an astonishingly incoherent and misguided sentence that is. “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” asks the King James Bible. A fair question, yes, but politics is a different game altogether, and, in this case, the alternative isn’t an otherworldly victory or spiritual advancement but simply more loss. The question for Bevin must be “for what shall it profit a man if he shall lose another debt-ceiling fight and lose his party’s shot at the Senate as well?” And the answer is “not at all.” If this is what we are to expect from the revolution — a host of nihilistic, suicidal, performance artists who would rather be outside of the control room screaming than inside and in charge — then give me the cynical calculations of a Mitch McConnell any day of the week. Charles is correct that defeating the debt ceiling hike was a losing game for the GOP. That’s why I opposed pretending to use it last fall. You can’t play chicken when you announce that you will turn away first. McConnell knew this and yet he and other Republican leaders talked up a fight on the debt limit. Don’t blame me for holding them responsible for their failure to deliver on their rhetoric. As an aside, why are people dumping on Ted Cruz for the debt ceiling vote? He didn't spend weeks saying the GOP would refuse to hike it without any strings attached. That's what McConnell, Boehner, Ryan and the rest of the "establishment" were saying. Why is Cruz the bad guy for trying to make them live up to their commitment? It seems rather strange to get mad at the guy who pointed out the lie rather than the liars. I’ve heard McConnell talk about having to take tough votes in the Senate (it’s why they usually make terrible candidates for President) and he got bit by one this week. The reason it was a tough vote is because while complaining about the debt ceiling hike is popular, it’s also necessary to raise it. I will give McConnell begrudging credit that in its own way his vote for cloture a brave and unselfish. With all of that said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with using this against McConnell. Being in the leadership has its perqs but it also has downsides. McConnell is a big boy and knows this. On the initial question as to whether McConnell has a tactical or ideological difference with Obama on the debt ceiling I’ll let McConnell’s record speak for itself. I looked back at the debt ceiling hikes during the Bush years (that’s as far back as I had time to check) and there were seven of them totaling $5.85 trillion in increases. Mitch McConnell voted for each and every one of them. Only in 2009 did he begin to vote against hiking the debt ceiling. I find it hard to believe that McConnell suddenly found a principled objection to ever increasing debt. It seems pretty clear his biggest problem with debt is that it’s now political expedient to be against it. Remember, then Senator Obama said hiking the debt ceiling “is a sign of leadership failure”. Based on that, I think it’s fair to say McConnell and Obama hold the same position on raising the debt ceiling. McConnell, like Obama, is a politician so I don’t hold his shifting positions against him as some sort of character flaw. It’s more an occupational hazard. That doesn’t mean that I should salute him for it either. This brings me to my biggest problem with Charles’ piece, his conclusion. For a party that enjoys such little power in Washington, this has been pretty good going and, unfashionable as it is, I feel that I should buck the trend and praise the party for playing a difficult round adroitly and with foresight. Well done, McConnell. Well done, Boehner. Now win the Senate in November, and give ’em merry hell. I have no faith that given more power, even the Presidency, the current GOP “establishment” will behave any better then they are now or have in the past. I don’t come to this simply as a nihilistic hater but as McConnell’s debt ceiling history shows, as someone who is well acquainted with what the party and its “establishment” history. Others may have more faith in their latest promises that they’ve seen the light and will stay on the straight and narrow hence forth but I see no evidence of it. In fact there are many reasons to believe the exact opposite. Remember when the sequester was supposed to be the Holy Grail to be protected at all costs to trade for entitlement reform? Or when every dollar of debt hike was supposed to be offset by a dollar or more of spending cuts? They couldn’t rollover fast enough on that to get the spending moving again. I was not originally a fan of the “tea party” and I’m still not truth be told. I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents say…it’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline, it’s unrealistic about the popularity of the policies it prefers, that losing running candidates like Christine O’Donnell in deep blue states is preferable to winning with a sellout RINO (Note I said “deep blue” not purple or red states) and so on. I view these faults, perhaps with more hope than reason, as growing pains that can be worked out over time. As I’ve said before I get why the GOP moves left…math. At this moment it’s easier to be just a little less liberal than the Democrats to win votes but that doesn’t actually move the ball in the proper direction for conservatives. Someone and some group of people are going to have to make it worth the while of the GOP to do that. Right now the best tool the “tea party” has is to make the GOP fear the right more than they are tempted by moderate left. In time I’d hope that would expand to winning over converts so the GOP will see the right as a constituency large enough worth wooing with more than words. Until we have a sufficiently large carrot, we will have to use the stick. I don’t know that the current “tea party” is interested in taking this path and perhaps I will find myself cursing them as well. Only the future will tell that story. But the history of the Republican party is well known to me and plenty of other conservatives. It’s clear, at least to me, that the GOP is a hopeless broken and corrupt vessel for conservatives under the leadership of the likes of McConnell and Boehner. If you want to change the way business has been done under Democrats and Republicans alike, at some point you will have to change the people doing that business. Posted by: DrewM. at 10:07 AM Comments 1 Nope...gotta go with Cooke and Gabe. Says so right here in the AoSHQ Style Guide. Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 14, 2014 10:08 AM (6T8Ay) 2 Cooke is a namby-pamby. Sure he sounds good on the podcast, money maker that it is. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:10 AM (HVff2) 3 You just don't understand politics little person. Back to the fields with you. Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:11 AM (Aif/5) 4 While researching Mars Attacks and Slim Whitman I found this version of Indian Love Call featuring Fauxcohontas Elizabeth Warren. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWbrtzCb0HE Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:12 AM (6bMeY) 5 Nothing like our mid-morning Republican Treachery thread! Friday is here and all is well! How's it going with you guys? It's swell here in Michigan. Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 10:12 AM (hLRSq) 6 Dammit Bannion, that's my problem I don't have a copy of the style guide. Once again, I find myself aligned with DrewM about 99%. We need more of his worthy comments instead of the well, ya know. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:13 AM (HVff2) 7 It's all theater - false outrage, indignation. Pyramid schemes work because those towards the top of the pyramid want to keep things going. If you could have anything you wanted, anytime you wanted plus, if you had plenty to show your fake ass magnanimity, would you want the shit to change? There is a good reason why most of the highest wage growth areas in the country surround D.C. That is the top of the pyramid. This shit will not end. It's too good for them even to contemplate giving up. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (BZAd3) 8 How's it going with you guys? It's swell here in Michigan. Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 10:12 AM (hLRSq) "Swell" or "Swollen"?? Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (6T8Ay) 9 The Eskimos have 50 words for snow. The GOPs have 50 words for surrender. The liberals have 50 words for pervert. Posted by: WalrusRex at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (ee9LE) 10 I love the smell of bronchitis in the morning. It smell like ... a Z-Pac. But even in my current low-voiced, pseudo-Barry White state, I can post "Fuck You GOPe" with vim and vigor. Give 'em hell Horde. Posted by: ScoggDog at February 14, 2014 10:16 AM (6/+vz) 11 9 How many words does the GOP have for this is not the hill to die on? Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:16 AM (6bMeY) 12 And I thought our lefty "betters" were assholes. Seems to be some kind of competition. Posted by: Seems legit at February 14, 2014 10:16 AM (A98Xu) 13 "In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. " "Political reality" is whatever you force it to be. Did the Gay activists accept the political reality of no homosexuals allowed in the military? If you capitulate to the other side's premises, you are agreeing to concede the argument. If you DEMAND that your side win, then you are shaping the political reality. Intransigence is the correct response when you happen to be right. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 10:16 AM (bb5+k) 14 13 "In my estimation, the only thing of which Mitch McConnell and John Boehner have been guilty in the past few years is to have worked tirelessly within political reality and to have reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. " That's straight up bullshit. Posted by: Seems legit at February 14, 2014 10:17 AM (A98Xu) 15 So the argument is: the opportunity to win control of the Senate is more important than standing on principle. I can see the merit of the argument; I can even see the playing for the long haul. So, that being the case, let's examine what the GOP leadership does when they have the power....not exactly a sterling record. SO the options being provided seem to be 1) give up on trying to use the debt ceiling to control spending, and 2) if the GOP wins control of the Senate, continue to yield on principle. Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (aA2hG) 16 "Swell" or "Swollen"?? Posted by: Sean Bannion at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (6T8Ay) *checks self* No swellings or discolorations. That's good. It's Friday and all is going well right now. I know I should be wary because that means fate is setting me up for something unpleasant, but I think I'll just be happy for the meantime. *gets up to practice Snoopy happy-dance, falls over due to general clumsiness* Posted by: Mikey NTH - President's Day Sale - All Red Hot Rage 15% Off! at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (hLRSq) 17 Personally, I try to leave politics to the politicians. I focus on what America should do. I think America should not raise the debt ceiling. I oppose abolishing the debt ceiling. I think we should instead abolish the debt. I support immigration reform that does not include mass citizenship of any kind. And I generally favor the government doing more to protect people's rights, and doing less redistribution. Tactics are for the people on the front lines. My goal is to make good ideas popular enough that both parties will pretend to have always supported them. Posted by: JohnJ at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (TF/YA) 18 Who thinks that Sodom and Gomorrah had fifty flavors of pervert? Posted by: WalrusRex at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (ee9LE) 19 >>>Someone and some group of people are going to have to make it worth the while of the GOP to do that. Math will do it. Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (nsOJa) 20 This shit will not end. It's too good for them even to contemplate giving up. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:14 AM (BZAd3) Yes, the governance has allowed self serving interest to become the unstated guiding principle of those who feed at the trough. They don't give a rip about the long term consequences to the rest of the nation. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (bb5+k) 21 >>>""Political reality" is whatever you force it to be." I want to take the Tea Party wing seriously but this idea of "We don't need 'control of the government' or anything, we'll just Will to Power our ideas into law" is absolutely insane. Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (9qDRl) 22 Moar Cruz. And Lee. If we send more "bomb throwers" (as McVain called them) we can change the environment surrounding. The go along, get along establishment GOP'ers. Expectations are today that they won't rock the boat, that being true especially if they are in the majority because the "people" expect the Republicans to "govern". Well, no asshats, we expect you to make government smaller and less intrusive and unless we think you will do that you aren't going to get elected to shit. Posted by: MTF at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (F58x4) 23 Intransigence is the correct response when you happen to be right. Posted by: D-Lamp +1 Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 10:20 AM (nsOJa) 24 I think I'd prefer 100 Forrest Gumps in the Senate over what we have now. Posted by: Sphynx at February 14, 2014 10:20 AM (OZmbA) 25 Did any of these clowns play organized sports? Do they not understand the value of a consistent message, of encouraging their troops, maintaining esprit de corp, etc.? You need an energized base, you don't get your kids to play hard in the second half when you punt on second down the whole first half - coach. Giving the President a win while he's playing golf is insane, drag something out of him, a statutory increase in greens fees at Andrews, anything. When do the Dims ever piss on their base, even in the more egregious red herring situations - late term abortion, SSDI fraud, union thuggery, etc. Show me an example, other then NAFTA and Immigration - in which the unions are trying to play the long game at the expense of their current members. Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2014 10:20 AM (4JkHl) 26 Now we live in a post math paradigm, what difference does it make? Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:20 AM (6bMeY) 27 At this point, what difference does it make? Oppose the debt ceiling, support the sequester. Really? We're +17 trillion dollars in debt, have unfunded liabilities in SS and State pensions that cannot be paid, yet here we go, tilting at windmills, calling each other silly names. Illinois, California are actually broke. A couple of more states are getting close. A bunch of cities and towns are functionally bankrupt. But yeah, that Tea Party. Those fuckers. So emotional and stuff. Thinking they can make some kind of last stand effort to save the country. It's gonna be Thunderdome pretty soon, but so what? Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:20 AM (RFeQD) 28 Drew, as a corollary to your argument, I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts? The lesson they draw when you do that, when you cut them absolutely no slack when they try to go along with you, is "these people won't support me no matter what, so I should just ignore them." Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:21 AM (9qDRl) 29 Charles is correct that defeating the debt ceiling hike was a losing game for the GOP. How do we know this? They never even try to defeat these things. It's all Kabuki theater. I have given up on the GOP establishment (i.e.leadership) I will vote in the upcoming primary in order to try to get RINO Graham out but probably will not after that. It will be the first election I have missed since getting out of the Navy in 1977. I don't have a Party anymore. Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2014 10:22 AM (T2V/1) 30 Oh and for the debt ceiling.... ...how come the game is set spending to bust the debt ceiling, then whine when the ceiling is reached? Enough. Is. Enough. Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 10:22 AM (nsOJa) 31 Lay back and think of "political wins."* *Political wins is another expression for, "the people are going to get ass raped." Posted by: Seems legit at February 14, 2014 10:23 AM (A98Xu) 32 Nope...gotta go with Cooke and Gabe.Says so right here in the AoSHQ Style Guide. Posted by: Sean Bannion In a larger sense, isn't Christine O'Donnell really to blame? Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 14, 2014 10:23 AM (kdS6q) 33 " At this moment it’s easier to be just a little less liberal than the Democrats to win votes but that doesn’t actually move the ball in the proper direction for conservatives." Here's my objection. I'm not worried about the GOP placating "conservatives," I'm worried about them doing what is fricking right for the country. Damn it, we are royally fucking over our children and this go-along-to-get-along shit is speeding up the impending crash that we all know is coming. And, as Drew pointed out above, the GOP track record from when they were the majority in DC gives me zero confidence that they are going to do the right thing if they win filibuster-proof majorities in both houses and the presidency. That's why people like me are pissed at this political football shit. Because these assholes have demonstrated time and time again that they are the Capitol Party (thank you, Ace) and are only interested in what's perceived to be good for DC and their own pocketbooks and fuck the rest of us Unpeople out here in Jesusland (thank you, AtC). Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 14, 2014 10:23 AM (qFpRI) 34 I want to take the Tea Party wing seriously but this idea of "We don't need 'control of the government' or anything, we'll just Will to Power our ideas into law" is absolutely insane. Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:18 AM (9qDRl) This statement is a strawman. Political reality begins with shaping the culture and promulgating ideas. Again I use the example of the normalization of homosexuality. You create propaganda, (Will and Grace, Glee) and then you use it on the population. Eventually it steers the electorate in the direction you want to go. No body is talking about "willing our ideas into law", I am pointing out that every effort must begin by a force of will, and a determination to fight. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (bb5+k) 35 They should just cut a hole in the debt ceiling. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (6bMeY) 36 Ack! Mr. Cooke, you don't stand up for your principles only at times when you think you can win! You do it every time or they ain't worth a rat's ass. The GOP leadership is governed by fear. Fear that they could lose what they have. So, they run along the walls and pause now and then wary of cats. Oh, look! A scrap! Nom nom nom. Ted Cruz and the TEA Party are working to change political reality, not work within it. Posted by: eman at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (AO9UG) 37 I'll just take Paul Ryan's plan to zero out the deficit by 2075. That there is some epic can kicking that even the weakest kneed GOPer can get behind. And if a few unexpected emergencies come along and mess up the plan, well, shit happens. Cooke's position on this isn't much different than ace's; that our GOP leaders are mostly doing the best that they can given the current political realities. It's just that I don't accept that that is the only reality. Posted by: GnuBreed at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (cHZB7) 38 Oh look. It remains us vs. Big Government. Posted by: akula51 at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (ySU/u) 39 I'm not going to argue with the Tories anymore. I'm just going to do what I think is right. And look out for me and mine. While it burns. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (1Y+hH) 40 Hey, it's a puny 2.5 trillion moe in debt in two years. No biggie. A losing game. McConnell and the rest of the math challenged Mandarins need a lesson. And that lesson is get the hell out. After all, when came to moments like the debt ceiling vote--how is he functionally different from a Democrat? I'll wait on the answer. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 10:24 AM (659DL) 41 I don't have a Party anymore. Posted by: Vic That's small beans. We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (RFeQD) 42 Rand Paul said on Beck yesterday that he didn't think the GOP would win again in his lifetime unless they fundamentally change. I've got to agree. What has the GOP done to earn my vote? I would take no pleasure in the fact that I'm now getting screwed by a guy with a G after his name instead of a D. Posted by: WalrusRex at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (ee9LE) 43 Why don't they just give everyone a Trillion dollars? That would stimulate the economy. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (6bMeY) 44 Just keep kicking that can down the cul-de-sac. Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (nELVU) 45 I suppose that we can hope that some exotic quantum theory of relativity where there is no reality is in force and nothing is as it seems. Otherwise, $18 trillion in debt and $127 trillion in unfunded obligations, and nothing being done to rein in spending, is probably not sustainable. When Clinton was president, interest on the national debt was seven times higher than it is under this contrived fiscal policy. If interest rates ever again return to being market based, we are truly and terminally fucked. Doing nothing because nothing can be done, is exactly what got us here. But one has to admit; it's good for some. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (BZAd3) 46 Someone take the Meth out of the coffee at the HQ. The cobogs are running wild! Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (0FSuD) 47 2014 is still a base election, right. Fire and brimstone - bring it. Make Zombie Curtis Le May blush, shock Cheney. Accommodation, Mr Chamberlain and Mr Quisling won't get me to the polls - much less get me to drive others to the polls. Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2014 10:27 AM (4JkHl) 48 In a larger sense, isn't Christine O'Donnell really to blame? Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix That is really the root cause, isn't it? Because Mike Castle would have made all the difference. But maybe we did need a witch in the Senate? Especially since Hillary left and was Sec of State. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:27 AM (RFeQD) 49 We simply don't have access to what's going on behind the curtain. For example, I don't think it's a coincidence that immigration reform was tabled a few days ago. There are behind-the-scenes negotiations by the party leaders who will attempt to seek concessions on one bill in exchange for concessions on a completely different bill. Sort of like JFK giving away European missiles in exchange for no nukes in Cuba. What we can do, as part of the electorate, is focus on making good ideas popular enough that opposing them comes at a political cost. Politicians don't care about what's good for America. The political system works because it empowers politicians who do what's popular, even though they're not doing it for the right reasons. It's up to us to decide what's popular enough for politicians to pretend that they really care about it. Posted by: JohnJ at February 14, 2014 10:27 AM (TF/YA) 50 36 Ack! Mr. Cooke, you don't stand up for your principles only at times when you think you can win! ---------------------- Agree. That's why they have to say shit like: "...reacted sensitively to the hands that they were dealt. " Posted by: Seems legit at February 14, 2014 10:27 AM (A98Xu) 51 "What shall it profit a man....." Why it will profit him the WORLD. And there you have the rationale. Posted by: irongrampa at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (SAMxH) 52 Excuse the OT so early but as there's no morning news dump and I'm out the door to work... the sock link tells why there's been so much flooding in England after the 'global warming' record rainfall. England's EPA, envirotards and EU regulations have stopped the regional farming area's from dredging the area's rivers as they done for centuries since Charles I first started the marshes being drained so the outlet rivers are all silted up. And to be on-topic: English Canada went for a new truly-conservative party when the old Progressive Conservative party showed they were the same Quebec Liberals as the 'real' Liberals. Wiki the 'Reform Party of Canada' and its linked threads for the story. Maybe it'll give you some third party or reforming the GOP ideas? Posted by: andycanuck at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (vAnfs) 53 It's always chapped me that Congress can't even zero out the budget deficit. WTF? Cfuk balancing the budget in 10 years. Balance it THIS year. Oh, no, we HAVE to overspend. That's the WAY IT WORKS. Posted by: Sphynx at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (OZmbA) 54 For fuck's sake, Mr. Cooke thing do you think we're new? Did all of prior political history up to this point simply not happen? Weren't we told in 2011, by nearly all of the same people who are now patting me on the top of head and telling me not to worry about it, that the debt limit had to be raised but don't worry we'll cut spending and we'll hold the line, serious you guys, just this one last time and never again? What about 1986 and amnesty and the complete and total and solemn assurances that the border would be secured and we would never, ever, ever be in this place again? What about Olympia Snowe hearing the call of history? Here's a hint, Mr. Cooke, the reason why I don't believe The Establishment is because they are fucking liars. Complete and total fucking liars and it is an insult to your intelligence to act as if I am the insane fool for thinking that. I do not trust Our Betters because they are untrustworthy. I do not believe they will hold to their convictions because they do not do so when push comes to shove. I do not think it is a sign of political naivete to note that at every turn the deeply held concerns of the base are not only not advanced but actively shat upon. I do think that the only one here who displays an utter lack of comprehension of reality is you, Mr. Cooke. If a person or entity lies to me over and over and over and over and over again, I am entitled to reach the conclusions that said person or entity is an untrustworthy liar. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus exists for a reason, after all. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (Gk3SS) 55 The GOP Leadership is spineless. Remember when we had all house, senate and presidency. They whimped out at every turn, it was the gang of 7 that was the final straw for me. You had the power and you let the dems walk all over you. You have 1 house now and you let the dems walk all over you. Why, why should I trust you to do what is right? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (HVff2) 56 This Slim Whitman music is kind of growing on me. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (6bMeY) 57 Imagine a third party just strong enough to rock both the GOP and dems back on their electoral heels, with a "we work for you, the voter, not for the circus inside the beltway." message. I'd vote for that sort of disruption. And, yeah, I know it's a fantasy, so don't bother snarkily reminding me it is. Posted by: M. Murcek at February 14, 2014 10:29 AM (GJUgF) 58 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (RFeQD) That. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 10:29 AM (1Y+hH) 59 I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts? Posted by: Paul at February 14, 2014 10:21 AM (9qDRl) I suspect you are too young to remember Tip O'neill. (Chris Mathews was his assistant.) His standard methodology was "FUCK THE REPUBLICANS. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT THEY WANT." Being a stubborn sonofabitch works. We have plenty of historical precedent to demonstrate this. Now contrast that with our leaderships mindset of "let's not offend the Democrats." Fuck the Democrats. I don't give a shit what they want. The only thing worse are those people who think they ought to mollify them. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (bb5+k) 60 I've been watching the leaders of both parties flip-flop on issues depending on who holds the White House for nearly half a century now. If the GOP wins in 2016 the Democrats will suddenly be against military action, the imperial executive and domestic spying again like they were 5 years ago. The only time both parties agree on anything it has to do with lining their own pockets. Posted by: Petulant Klown at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (5fSr7) 61 Remember when they fired all the Tea Party Committee Chairmen? Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (6bMeY) 62 A couple of other points on my position: 1. I am not so much against the debt ceiling hike (which this wasn't, it was a debt ceiling elimination) as I am against the fact that they rolled over completely without demanding ANYTHING in return. It was complete surrender. 2, The GOP leadership has already demonstrated that they do not give a damn for conservatives and just as soon kicked them out of the Party. 3. The GOP leadership has also demonstrated their disdain for a bedrock principle of Republicans for decades called "the rule of law" when they pushed for amnesty even while the rank and file were totally against it. IOW FK the GOP Leadershp. Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (T2V/1) 63 >Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus exists for a reason, after all. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (Gk3SS)< Ahhhh, there we go. Fresh blueberry scone my liege? Posted by: Muad'dib at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (sjdRT) 64 Is that Latin? Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (6bMeY) 65 And, as Drew pointed out above, the GOP track record from when they were the majority in DC gives me zero confidence that they are going to do the right thing if they win filibuster-proof majorities in both houses and the presidency. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 14, 2014 10:23 AM (qFpRI) Concur. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (bb5+k) 66 Basically, what is being argued here is that the best tactic is to go along with rearranging the deck chairs because warning about the iceberg isn't politically expedient, and changing course to avoid the iceberg is an untenable, extremist positionsn. Playing politics is a lot easier to justify when you pretend there aren't really any serious problems facing the country. Oh, well... Debt ceiling fight over. Blank check to Obama given. Now, on to amnesty. Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (QXlbZ) 67 I do think that the only one here who displays an utter lack of comprehension of reality is you, Mr. Cooke. If a person or entity lies to me over and over and over and over and over again, I am entitled to reach the conclusions that said person or entity is an untrustworthy liar. Posted by: alexthechick He is paid (Cooke) and his rice bowl is filled to write this intellectual pablum. Some people believe it, others, not so much. What's in your wallet? Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (RFeQD) 68 Please explain the loud and public trashing of conservatives the Tea Party by Boehner and McConnell and how this fits in with the Establishment's brilliant strategy to win elections in 2014 and 2016. They don't vote the way we want, they don't present a practical, coherent plan to the public on how they plan to reform government and they publicly trash us in the media - yet we're supposed to believe they'll suddenly represent our interests if only we vote them into power, right? It seems they despise us and have worked very hard to remove every congressman that represents our interests from committees of power and threatened and bullied the conservative members of congress. And yet we're supposed to applaud them and think they're doing the right thing to get back in power. So please, how does the establishment deserve praise for depressing votes from the base. Because I, for one, see no reason to work the polls, GOTV or even vote for people who despise me. Posted by: jeannebodine at February 14, 2014 10:32 AM (2LJqa) 69 Hello from Sydney and I'm watching some cricket -Aussies v South Africa at 2.30am Sat morning I've been reading up about your political system and taking note of some pretty big differences between our way and yours - in the past I've mainly concentrated on cultural differences like why do you all tip people and why can't I buy Vegemite when I'm in the US.... The Republicans have a House of Reps majority but not in the Senate? Same here but we now have a conservative PM because the Liberals (Conservatives) won the general election last September and so chose the Prime Minister from the House of Representatives - although they do not have a Senate majority There are some here who push for making OZ a republic but after seeing the horror story of Obama I'm sure most thoughtful people here would think twice before having a popularly elected President - the last push for a republic was soundly defeated a few years ago in a referendum Then again all we see except on a few conservative sites is how lovely Mrs Obama is and what a wonderful President her hubby is.... And they're friends with Beyoncé !!!! And Oprah !!!! Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:32 AM (nP3cM) 70 Principles are like underwear. They should be changed regularly. Posted by: GOPe at February 14, 2014 10:32 AM (ee9LE) 71 I are jus too stoopid to unnerstan politicks an how it werks. Posted by: DangerGirl and her Sanity Prod (tm) at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (Ryac4) 72 They downed the ball to get a time out through the elections. Yes, it's a non-conservative move, but it's where they were going to wind up anyway and avoids making the headlines about HIP obstructionism. Posted by: --- at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (ksJYU) 73 Venezuela is our future. I don't actually believe anything I can do will change that, but I'll be damned if I'll embrace it. Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (JQuNB) 74 We solved all that deficit spending business back in the '70s. It's over now. Move on. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (1Y+hH) 75 I'd suggest that when the GOP does go along with the fight-fight-fight crowd (like for example, when they shut down the government), maybe that crowd should wait a tad longer before switching back to calling them traitor RINO sellouts? Posted by: Paul If you recall, they bent over like cheap sluts in the end. I was down at the WW2 memorial, I had a pair of linemen dikes in my pocket. If Boehner had shown up, I would have handed them to him - lets see the fascist bastards arrest the Speaker of the House. Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (4JkHl) 76 GOP, not HIP. Posted by: --- at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (ksJYU) 77 73 I better get some more TP. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (6bMeY) 78 Principles are like underwear. They should be changed regularly. Quit swapping them with the guy across the aisle from you! Posted by: t-bird at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (FcR7P) 79 the classic blunder, DrewM .. no, not getting into a land war in Asia or going up against a Sicilian when death is on the line .. conflating Conservative and GOP. . McConnell is no conservative, he's a bare-knuckles Kentucky politician .. which is great if he'd deploy those bare knuckles in support of conservative positions, which he does too infrequently. . It's time for him to go. . Mew Posted by: acat at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (gGEmy) 80 Ahhhh, there we go. Fresh blueberry scone my liege? Posted by: Muad'dib at February 14, 2014 10:31 AM (sjdRT) *nosewrinkle* I hate blueberries. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (Gk3SS) 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (pJB7q) 82 >>>We simply don't have access to what's going on behind the curtain. For example, I don't think it's a coincidence that immigration reform was tabled a few days ago. You are right. They are smelling victory in the Senate and will wait until then ram amnesty 2.0 down our throats. Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (nsOJa) 83 The debt ceiling is just a symptom. Unless entitlement spending is scaled back than America will, by definition, keep adding more debt. Regardless of what the official "debt ceiling" is. The problem isn't the debt ceiling. The problem is the spending. The debt ceiling has been proven to have basically zero effect on actual spending. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (ZPrif) 84 **Slides ATC a big ol' hunk of chocolate cake** Posted by: dogfish at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (nsOJa) 85 Related, becasue here is what the current rapacious federal government unleashes via its diktats... "The nation’s most populous state has elected to temporarily shutter its new online health insurance marketplace for small business only four months after it launched, dealing yet another blow to a key element of the health care law meant to lower costs for employers." Full link over at Insty. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (659DL) 86 Drew: I was not originally a fan of the “tea party” and I’m still not truth be told. I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents say…it’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline, it’s unrealistic about the popularity of the policies it prefers, that losing running candidates like Christine O’Donnell in deep blue states is preferable to winning with a sellout RINO (Note I said “deep blue” not purple or red states) and so on. Funny, I was just thinking about the Castle/O'Donnell race this morning. If Castle was in the Senate right now, where would he be on amnesty, minimum wage, debt ceiling, gun control etc.? He'd be there every step of the way giving R cover to the Obama administration. O'Donnell was one of the worst Senate candidates in history. I'm just not sure that we'd be better off with a 54/46 Senate with the extra R being the most liberal R in the Senate and perhaps going full Lincoln Chafee. I'm not offended by the tea party criticism per se, it has some validity. But a minimum standard for any R should be that they're not more hostile to conservatives than they are to dems. That's why there is some much venom directed toward McCain. We can tolerate someone like Scott Brown, but Castle was a bridge too far. Posted by: Duke at February 14, 2014 10:35 AM (d3clc) 87 The only time both parties agree on anything it has to do with lining their own pockets. Posted by: Petulant Klown at February 14, 2014 10:30 AM (5fSr7) In a way, it is good to know that they aren't as stupid as they seem and that there's something they're really good at; unfortunately, they are also unprincipled scum. Posted by: Hrothgar at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (o3MSL) 88 Where's ace? Posted by: roscoek at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (uM0Im) 89 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. Posted by: Ribald Conservative riding Orca at February 14, 2014 10:25 AM (RFeQD) This. And it scares the shit out of me for the sake of my children. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (qFpRI) 90 the amorphous “Establishment,” Fuck you and your scare quotes. It's shorthand for an incestuous self-serving political class more interested in perpetuating its tenure and playing parliamentary games than advancing conservative principles, you stupid fuck. It doesn't have to be a shadowy cabal in hooded robes to be real. Posted by: Waterhouse at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (t8ySh) 91 Surrender your way to victory with the GOP! Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (4+AaH) 92 Basically what some people on the GOP's Titanic want to do is jump overboard before it hits the iceberg Posted by: righter at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (hgDJr) 93 Eventually the real reset button of corruption, debt, and liabilities out the yin-yang will be pushed and all hell will break loose. Posted by: Angel with a sword at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (hpgw1) 94 Our future is more Brazil, than Venezuela, but we are becoming a Latin American style country -- with all the corruption and backwardness that implies. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 10:37 AM (ZPrif) 95 Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (Gk3SS may I offer a choice piece of chocolate cheese cake? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:37 AM (HVff2) 96 >>No body is talking about "willing our ideas into law", I am pointing out that every effort must begin by a force of will, and a determination to fight. This assumes that nobody is currently fighting. Times change, circumstances change, players change. Assuming that 2014 is exactly the same as 2008 is silly, everything has changed. There is no question the GOP is becoming more conservative. Guys like Cruz and Lee in the Senate, an actual Tea Party Caucus in the House. Change is happening and assuming that the same old GOP is going to be in power is not supported by the facts. I don't have any problem primarying the squishier members of the GOP and replacing them with more conservative members. But the reality is until we gain control we are not going to win the battles we want to. We could have a Senate full of Cruzes but as long as we are in the minority with dishonest brokers like Reid, a guy who nuked decades of tradition with the filibuster just to ram through Obama's judges, we are not going to get what we want. Multiple things can happen at the same time. We can win back the Senate and move the window to the right. The Dems did it, replacing most of the old centrists in their party or converting them, we can too. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 10:37 AM (g1DWB) 97 Welcome to the Healthcare Exchange California, You can check out any time you like , But you can't never leave. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:38 AM (6bMeY) 98 Where's Ace? It's 10:30 in the morning. Where do you think he is? Posted by: Flatbush Joe at February 14, 2014 10:38 AM (ZPrif) 99 They downed the ball to get a time out through the elections. Yes, it's a non-conservative move, but it's where they were going to wind up anyway and avoids making the headlines about HIP obstructionism. Posted by: --- at February 14, 2014 10:33 AM (ksJYU) Dripping with fear. Fear oozing out of every pore. A puddle of fear at your feet. There is a very good chance the GOP will hold all three Branches in 2017. You know what they will do then? Shit their pants and run home to Mommy. Posted by: eman at February 14, 2014 10:38 AM (AO9UG) 100 Thank you, dogfish. *noms* It doesn't have to be a shadowy cabal in hooded robes to be real. Posted by: Waterhouse at February 14, 2014 10:36 AM (t8ySh) No, but that would be kinda awesome. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:38 AM (Gk3SS) 101 I find it too emotion based and agree much of what its opponents say…it’s not interested in creating converts but enforcing discipline, it’s unrealistic about the popularity of the policies it prefers, Hey, thanks. Prove it. Next. Helpful hint: Math is not emotional. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (659DL) 102 81 The DNC loves DrewM's rants against the GOP and encourages him to continue. Please read accordingly . ------- Exactly right! Stop reading anything but our certified talking points because we all know you are too stupid to form your own opinions. Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5) 103 So when Drew complains about the "tea party," who is he talking about? Because there is no tea party with defined leaders and a defined platform. Is he complaining about all conservatives who want a government that adheres to the Constitution? Because that's what it sounds like. And that's pretty stupid, IMHO. Posted by: Emily at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (7Rn+/) 104 Here's what pisses me off, and I saw it from Gabe this morning too, but was too late to comment on the thread. Here's Gabe: "The WSJ piece is right, but incomplete. Cruz knows he can demand a showdown even though he has no idea how to win one because (1) conservatives will eat that up, favoring intentions over results as they do currently; and (2) he isn't running for reelection this year. " These people, these political experts, they seem to have no concept of the value of principles, not just personally but even politically. Yes, we all knew that Cruz's filibuster was not going to work. So what? It was absolutely the right thing to do. #1. It energized the base, which needs doing. I don't know who these RINOs think they're going to get to man phone banks and knock on doors, but I tell you there are fewer and fewer people willing to do the small beer of politics for someone who pisses in their face and tells them that it's raining daily. #2. Even more important, it stakes out a position, and if you know that your position is correct this is not a bad place to be. The position "Obamacide is such a disaster that I'm willing to do everything I can to prevent it from being inflicted upon the American public, up to and including shutting down the government" is THE PLACE TO BE when Obamacide turns out to be as bad as we knew it would be. Don't you think that opposition is something you can run on with 5 million people who lost their insurance and are now uninsured or paying more? There's up to 80 million more coming down the pike, you'd think a politician would want a strong stance against that to woo them. #3. Fuck the MSM. Seriously, just stop trying. If Ted Cruz were to walk on water, the headline in the NYT would be "Republican Senator can't swim". Don't play their game. Stake out your positions, stick to them, learn to defend them calmly and refuse to buy into the MSM assumptions that frame their "questions". Proggy ideas are so poorly thought out that it's easy to discredit them, take a few minutes to learn how. One example and I'm done: "Mr. Republican, you oppose the expansion of Medicade in your state. In these tough times, how can you deny medical care to poor people. Don't you care?" "I'm glad you asked that Mr. Reporter. I oppose the expansion of Medicade because studies have repeatedly shown that people on Medicade have worse health outcomes than even the uninsured. Why do you believe that hard working people going through a rough patch should be forced onto inferior health care?" IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD. Parry their asinine statement, then strike back hard. I guarantee you that any reporter who ran into the above would be left sputtering in confusion, the Republican could then easily grab control of the interview and propose whatever he or she wanted. You don't win every battle. Nobody can. But if you're standing strong on historically proven principles, ones that have been proven to work over and over again, you're in the correct position to pick up the pieces when another bloated boondoggle starts to implode. Hell, it's easier than the pandering that most of these idiots seem to think is their job description. All it takes is a little intellect and courage.....oh, now I see the flaw in my reasoning. Damn. Posted by: Weirddave at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (N/cFh) 105 I think I'd prefer 100 Forrest Gumps in the Senate over what we have now. Posted by: Sphynx ------------------ Gump, of course, managed a shrimp boat, so more experience than most politicians. Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (aDwsi) 106 Vic, you can't bargain if your opponent knows you have nothing to bargain with. When you fold the first time, then you sure as hell can not be believed when you say you won't fold the second time. Once you are a whore, everyone wants to fuck you and when you say no, no one believes you. You can not regenerate virginity, although I had several dates that thought so. Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2014 10:40 AM (0FSuD) 107 You are right. They are smelling victory in the Senate and will wait until then ram amnesty 2.0 down our throats. - Then we'll be sitting pretty. Posted by: GOPe at February 14, 2014 10:40 AM (ee9LE) 108 89 We don't have a country anymore. It's just a mob screaming and scrambling for self -interest, trying to steal whatever is not tied down. It's an elite bribing a mob to terrorize the working class. That's what our country is, right now. There are three sets of laws: laws for the elite, laws for the mob, and laws for the law-abiding. The last group are the slaves of the other two. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 14, 2014 10:40 AM (TAP/5) 109 105 Certainly more than the SCoaMF. Posted by: Boss Moss at February 14, 2014 10:40 AM (6bMeY) 110 Exactly right! Stop reading anything but our certified talking points because we all know you are too stupid to form your own opinions. Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5) McConnell/Boehner: "Trust us to do the right thing!" Posted by: Hrothgar at February 14, 2014 10:40 AM (o3MSL) 111 For fuck's sake, Mr. Cooke thing do you think we're new? Did all of prior political history up to this point simply not happen? Posted by: alexthechick Cooke was born in 1984, so there's the limited perspective of one who's personal political experience starts with the Bush II Era. And he's from the UK, so there's the problem of being on the outside looking in. It's like us trying to learn British politics by watching Masterpiece Theater and old Monty Python sketches. Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 14, 2014 10:41 AM (kdS6q) 112 Surrender your way to victory with the GOP! ----- Well.... the progressives have always wanted us to be more like Europe. The Beltway Republicans have staked out their portion as "French". Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (nELVU) 113 First of all, there is no such thing as a budget. They switch money (our damn money) around when and where they please. Secondly, there is no difference between the establishment rinos and democrats. They are all on the same team. That is, they represent Washington City, not we the people. The only time establishment rinos (Hatch, Graham, Cornyn, McCain, McConnell) act conservative is when they run for re-election. Rinos don't want to be dethroned, and democrats can't be dethroned, as long as the propaganda ministry belongs to them. Bad times are coming. BAD times. Posted by: Erowmero at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (OONaw) 114 If interest rates ever again return to being market based, we are truly and terminally fucked. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:26 AM (BZAd3) **************************** ^^this ten thousand times. We need to be preparing now for who is going to be running budgets and appropriations when the fiscal sh*t hits the fan (likely before the end of TFG's term, so we have to assume that negotiations are done with the White House wanting no cuts to anything, more stuff for the FSA, and raise those taxes for fairness). The Republicans may be squishy, but they move in the right direction, and will man up when the bond market demands it. The Democrats will drive us into depression and default. We need to keep the GOP in power in both houses of Congress, while electing every conservative we possibly can and putting a conservative in the White House in 2016 who will preside over the largest restructuring in history. You know what? Maybe Mitt Romney, who has some private sector experience in this area, might be a good pick for VP/Chief Restructuring Officer. Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (HubSo) 115 DrewMs victimology is also indicated in his headline. Who the fuck asked you to cheer the GOP. Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (pJB7q) 116 Voting Republican is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're going to get. Posted by: WalrusRex at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (ee9LE) 117 may I offer a choice piece of chocolate cheese cake? Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at February 14, 2014 10:37 AM (HVff2) Yes, please. Look, everyone's (by which I mean my) tl;dr can by summed up in one word. Trust. Cooke, et al, presume that the base should trust that when, not if, when the GOP regains the Senate and holds the House, then conservative principles will be advanced. The base has no trust left for the GOP. That is a problem. That is an enormous problem. Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (Gk3SS) 118 HQ and personal favorite Charles C.W. Cooke.... Yup, just like Poppin' Fresh, one of Teh Go-to HQ Guys for Big News and Thoughtful Anal-ysis. People who see the shit in Washington as some kind of happy fun video game that rewards crafty maneuvering are playing right into the hands of the Prophets of Choom. Never mind that the rest of us real-life types are taking it on the friggin' chin; all they see is a scoreboard. That's why the 52% and the media laugh at us. They're in it to win; we are content to rack up a few random style points. Posted by: MrScribbler at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (ff7/5) 119 While Americans are bleeding and dying on mountains and in oncology suites these clowns have played whinerball. They've done nothing but draft and block for the left turn down the drain gang. They are worse than just wrong. They will get theirs here and hereafter. FUCK THEM. Posted by: DaveA at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (DL2i+) 120 29? Vic? I'm with you. Kabuki theatre is all it is, anymore. Gone Galt as much as I can.... Posted by: backhoe at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (ULH4o) 121 Cooke could have saved himself a lot of words if he'd just gotten to the meat of the matter: We've got to protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph! Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (zF6Iw) 122 The debt does have a the function of stopping spending. It is simply an accounting artifice. It is the sum of past debt and future spending approved by congress at any point in time. It doesn't exist now so there is no use discussing it anymore. We live in a Brave New World now. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:44 AM (1Y+hH) 123 Maybe if we defend the "establishment" we'll prove our allegiance and they'll let us play with the big boy toys, and sit at the big boy table. Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 14, 2014 10:44 AM (BZAd3) 124 You know what? Maybe Mitt Romney, who has some private sector experience in this area, might be a good pick for VP/Chief Restructuring Officer. The way the GOP thinks, he deserves another shot at the top of the ticket. Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2014 10:44 AM (4JkHl) 125 The base has no trust left for the GOP. That is a problem. That is an enormous problem. The solution is simple: browbeat and scold the base until they fall into line. We're master politicians. Posted by: Karl Rove at February 14, 2014 10:45 AM (TAP/5) 126 Posted by: Your GOP Betters at February 14, 2014 10:39 AM (Aif/5) Your snark sucks . It's not either /or you ignoramus . Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:45 AM (Xfofp) 127 It took the left 20 yrs to get gay marriage. It took the left twenty years to get socialized health care. When they weren't winning, they were making their case. That's how they won. The GOP could be making the case and laying the groundwork for fiscal and regulatory reform, but the only ones who are trying to make the case are derided as whackobirds. Makes one doubt the GOP is really into those reforms. Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at February 14, 2014 10:45 AM (QXlbZ) 128 Your snark sucks . It's not either /or you ignoramus . ---------- Tell me why I should trust the GOP. Asshole. Posted by: Adam at February 14, 2014 10:46 AM (Aif/5) 129 Gone Galt as much as I can.... Posted by: backhoe at February 14, 2014 10:43 AM (ULH4o) Yep, me too. Starving the beast as best I can since 2009. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:46 AM (1Y+hH) 130 We live in a Brave New World now. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:44 AM (1Y+hH) My hand-scrawled sign: WILL WORK FOR SOMA Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (JQuNB) 131 Well.... the progressives have always wanted us to be more like Europe. The Beltway Republicans have staked out their portion as "French". Posted by: fixerupper at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (nELVU) More like the Norwegian/French position of "Quisling/Pétain ". Posted by: Hrothgar at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (o3MSL) 132 Actually, GR, we live in a combination of Brave New World and 1984. Posted by: Empire1 at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (RPaJf) 133 120 backhoe I went searching through maps of your St Simons Island the other night - after that I'm sure I find my way around - even if I would be driving on the wrong side of the road! Looked at some pics too that I found - lovely location! Thank you.. Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (nP3cM) 134 Graham and Rudmann sock off. Posted by: Graham and Rudmann at February 14, 2014 10:47 AM (1Y+hH) 135 " there is little that either man could have done differently while their party controlled just one half of one branch of government." So they need me to send them a copy of Tip's book(s)? Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (4JkHl) 136 Man that sock is sticky. Posted by: Meremortal at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (1Y+hH) 137 I've mainly concentrated on cultural differences like why do you all tip people and why can't I buy Vegemite when I'm in the US.... Posted by: aussie at February 14, 2014 10:32 AM (nP3cM) Howdy Aussie, It's y'all, not 'you all.' Why do we tip? Don't know, but it's fun to leave a really tiny tip for crappy service, and you can buy Vegemite here. It's sold at hardware stores labled as drywall paste. On a more serious note, I stumbled on this story from last December about salvagers stripping parts from HMAS Perth which sank along with USS Houston during the Battle of Sunda Strait Feb/Mar 1942. Your government should send your navy and sink the salvage boats. http://tinyurl.com/o6vwaol Posted by: ExSnipe at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (LKJt3) 138 We need more concern trolls on this one. Palin. Palin. Palin. That'll bring 'em. Posted by: eman at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (AO9UG) 139 Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. Come around here often, do you? We do it all, snark, one liners, massive walls of text. Give me a topic and I will give you whatever "product" that you wish. There is a reckoning coming and people like you who think that we can tack our way through it instead of confronting it are going to have a very bad time. I'll ask again: What was the difference between Mitch McConnell and a Democrat on the debtceiling vote? Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (659DL) 140 It's not wrong to say You don't consent to Unanimous Votes. Fuck the RINOS. It's a shit policy, don't fucking vote for it. Posted by: Zakn at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (zyaZ1) 141 Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. No he didn't. He simply declared Drew insane and rehashed the same tired bullshit about 'electability uber alles' which exists solely as a justification for inaction. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 14, 2014 10:48 AM (5tpzF) 142 “I’d be willing to risk losing the Senate if we could keep America,” Mitch McConnell’s primary challenger, Matt Bevin, told Glenn Beck this morning. What an astonishingly incoherent and misguided sentence that is. ============ What an astonishing thing that is for Cooke to admit: That it is better to keep this train rolling and lose our country than to lose the Senate. "Give up your soul to save the Senate," he says. Fuck him. Newsflash bitch: We don't have the Senate right now! So--and this goes to Gabe as well--how the fuck does holding to principles hurt? And don't give me this "chess" bullshit. Chess is a game. Real life is brutal, nasty, and far less devious while being far more complicated. There's no fucking room for "7 moves ahead" because 7 moves in life could have you planting a flag on the moon; life too unpredictable for that type of planning. I don't think I can e

664 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (BOBhx) Again, where did I mention legislation? You can advocate for things without legislating them. Notice that my original sentence said they could try to make responsible behavior seem cool. That has nothing to do with using govt power to achieve those goals. And respect for the rights of others is an aspect of morality, by the way. I think your point is better stated as: the govt has no place enforcing morality where no one's rights are being encroached upon.

665 *Obamacare launched on the exact same day as the government shutdown. Guess what got all the coverage? And you want to do that again? *


um , yeah. why not?

666 I once killed a project I did not like,

I put one off til the company folded over other reasons via.

It's too much work.
We don't need it yet.
I'm going fishing this year.

667 Ted Cruz is always after me Lucky Charms

668 There are many ways to oppose your opponent. One of the oldest strategies is when your opponent is in the process of beating themselves get the hell out of the way. Obamacare launched on the exact same day as the government shutdown. Guess what got all the coverage? And you want to do that again? Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:10 PM (g1DWB) So your eighth dimensional chess is to do nothing? What is the point of YOU or the GOP if all they are going to be is a bunch of wallflowers? God, that shutdown really hurt the national GOP. I mean we are all talking about how they are even going to lose the House! With that -102000% approval rating too! And I just love the fact that you are expecting ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC to do their jobs. The local stations are giving more airtime to negative stories from Obamacare than anything else. And since you have been screeching like a banshee about this shutdown since it started, WHY THE HELL DID THE GOP THEN START IN ON THE AMNESTY BULLSHIT! If it was all about the GOP standing back and watching Obama immolate himself and his party, WHY did the GOP start up this shit?!

669 Look at the fanatic god like worship of this clown people are showing on this thread. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:55 AM (EszTV) You will likely get over your Obama infatuation eventually. Seriously, how long can anyone long show respect for such a bumbling fool.

670 Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (bb5+k) /points... Barrel....

671 Your hero St. Ted of the Cross got an epic beat down at the hands of Obama. You reactionaries really think the country is with you. How will you get anything pass just controlling the House? Looking like a bunch of reactionary deranged fools is not how you win the electorate.

Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 11:41 AM (EszTV)

Curtailing runaway spending and debt, and putting the brakes on an ever overbearing government DERANGED!

Opposing an Amnesty in the face of ever shrinking job bases and ever growing welfare charges so that the Chamber of Commerce has a cheap labor base? CAAAHHRAAYYYZEEE!!

That Bob Michel back in the 70s and 80s, what a swell guy he was, all the Lefties thought he was such a nice guy!

672

>>"There are many ways to oppose your opponent. One of the oldest strategies is when your opponent is in the process of beating themselves get the hell out of the way."

 

Right. The "Romney strategy." That's why the biggest clusterfark of a president in American history got re-elected.

This the great, grand RINO delusion -- the assumption that the conflict with the Left exists within the context of traditional political disputation. A fatal conceit, for which we've been paying in liberty and life since, really, Reagan left office.

Well I'm tired of paying for your political complaisance and folly. I'm tired of losing my country because of it. This is war. Fight or get out of the way of those who will.

673 Few others would likely go out of their way to portray Stockman as a buffoon.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:12 PM (bb5+k)


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The unfortunate truth is that he is a buffoon. If we had a credible conservative candidate to challenge Cornyn, that would be wonderful. Stockman was my Congressman from 1995 to 1997 (elected to his surprise in 1994, I suspect) and has made a career of running elections he does not intend to win, in order to fleece donations from true believers. I thought he was more mature and actually wanted to serve in Congress this time around (he was elected again in 2012), but clearly he's reverted to form. He has no intention of beating Cornyn.

674 Am I the only one to find these unfunny mini-memes to be really annoying?

No and your not the first either but we've seen you open for them at the Apollo.

675 Few others would likely go out of their way to portray Stockman as a buffoon.

Unless they've actually been paying attention.

676 And yes, the govt does legislate morality - theft and rape are illegal. Posted by: chique d'afrique It legislates against it too.

677 >>So your eighth dimensional chess is to do nothing? What is the point of YOU or the GOP if all they are going to be is a bunch of wallflowers? If you are so unaware of what actually happened last fall and how it hurt Republicans then I don't know what to tell you. For the umpteenth time, there was no way we were going to get concessions from the left right now. None. They wanted a shutdown. They wanted to run on crazy Republicans shutting down the government. That was a platform they desperately needed because they have nothing else save trying to pretend that they are secretly trying to fix a law the vast majority of people blame them for and hate. And in case you haven't noticed the crazy strategy that I support is working. It's not eight dimensional anything. It's commonsense.

678 Puts away barrel, signals frieght barge to pull to the dock...

679

Here's are a few of the adjectives Cooke uses in his article to describe those opposed to the McConnell/Boehner strategy: "...insane, hysterical, witless, nihilistic, suicidal...". I can see Cooke in my mind's eye: hunched over his desk, mumbling to himself, leafing through his well-worn thesaurus, looking for that one single devastating murder word that will turn us know-nothing Tea Party yahoos into pillars of salt.

 

So yeah, Mr. Cooke. I see you're a big believer in Realpolitik, otherwise known as the One True Faith of Perpetual Losers. Historically, practitioners of Realpolitik bide their time. They wait.  They wargame scenarios. They calculate the winning odds down to the lastmost decimal point. And you know what? They're craven, calculating little weasels who never fucking win. Ever.

680 "Notice that my original sentence said they could try to make responsible behavior seem cool. That has nothing to do with using govt power to achieve those goals." But it's not even the government's role to "advocate" or "recommend" certain lifestyles. I'd say this for the same reason that I don't want the FCC analyzing and "recommending" what is appropriate bias in broadcast news, because when they hold the license inevitably these recommendations effectively become regulations. Besides, these fumbling attempts to "make something cool" would probably work about like pyjamas boy did for Obamacare.

681 But part of the problem is the GOP brand is so tainted for so much of the Electorate that its scary. Many out here will NEVER vote for a GOP candidate even if they agreed with absolutely everything they said. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (84gbM) Which is more a result of the media than the message. One party control of the media is responsible for the irrational bias engendered in the public.

682 548 Yes, let's let society continue to devolve so that we humans behave like animals with no self-control, responsibility, or accountability. There's no way that will end poorly. Those socons are so icky. Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM (r+7wo) Exactly my point. You make society ungovernable, and it won't matter a bit what are your Fiscal policies. The Financial is heavily dependent upon the stability of the Social.

683 One thing about Democrats, they are more honest than the GOP peeps. Dems tell you straight up they are going to fuck you.

684 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (BOBhx) Again, you miss my point. You can try to spread the message out there in the popular culture without govt interference. That is my point. And political players can also do it too without advocating any govt intervention. It may be a futile attempt at this point, but it is an idea.

685 The left has done its best to unravel the foundations of a civilized society, not all of it by govt interference. I'm just saying that perhaps we could push back.

686 "All this demonstrates is that you have a simplistic understanding of the nature of the problem. Fiscal insanity is part and parcel of social liberalism. How the fuck do you think we got to this level of fiscal insanity? " There are plenty of moderates who would be for fiscal sanity, but they don't vote for the GOP because they are not informed about what is happening in America with our budget and taxes, and honestly because the GOP has been pretty terrible at selling itself. I mean McCain Palin, that's what we put out for election against Obama. I think a flamingo wearing a hat could have won that election.

687 I think I'm coming around to sven's way of thinking ..

Tell the GOP that we've seen the light and are going to reach across the aisle to Democrats by voting for them

688 Or we could remember that it's not the government's role to legislate morality. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:08 PM (BOBhx) It sure the fuck is. Don't Steal! (Morality) Don't Kill! (Morality) Don't Discriminate! (Morality) I don't know what it takes to get it through some people's heads that * ALL LAWS ARE ENFORCED MORALITY!* Law *IS* morality.

689 Posted by: NWConservative at February 14, 2014 12:18 PM (buZ/ I think you just nailed part of my problem with the current leadership. The Debt ceiling is almost ALWAYS used by the minority, to get something from the Majority... its one of the few effective weapons a minority has. Its normal in the course of doing business in Washington... This time... the Repubs bring up Amnesty... something their base does NOT want... and then does not fight on the debt limit... Right after putting forth a plan to Limit Military Retirees pensions... (and yes, that was a REPUBLICAN plan... ie Ryan's). Meanwhile... Obama continues to forge ahead on Executive orders, and the GOP leadership talks, but does nothing. It seems directionless.... it seems a passive plan... while we see the country going to shit around us on a daily basis.

690 Nothing that wrong with Palin. She may or may not have been the best veep pick, but she was much less ludicrous than either Obama or Biden. The problem was the assassination of her character by Dems and the media (BIRM) and even some supposedly on our side.

691 Yeah, I didn't Palin was THAT bad.

692 "Exactly my point. You make society ungovernable, and it won't matter a bit what are your Fiscal policies. The Financial is heavily dependent upon the stability of the Social. " So if we just beat people enough and cram your vision of morality down their throats, then a wonderful civilization capable of respecting individual rights will magically arise from this?

693 If you are so unaware of what actually happened last fall and how it hurt Republicans then I don't know what to tell you. For the umpteenth time, there was no way we were going to get concessions from the left right now. None. They wanted a shutdown. They wanted to run on crazy Republicans shutting down the government. That was a platform they desperately needed because they have nothing else save trying to pretend that they are secretly trying to fix a law the vast majority of people blame them for and hate. And in case you haven't noticed the crazy strategy that I support is working. It's not eight dimensional anything. It's commonsense. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (g1DWB) It is not a strategy because it would have happened regardless of the GOP being there or not. The left was cracking in some areas with the DC mayor freaking out at the Senate Democrats. What damage did the shutdown do? We are now sitting at a Senate GOP takeover, keeping the House, RIGHT NOW. The shutdown will HAVE NO CASUALTIES in November. You still haven't answered why NOW of all times amnesty is a good idea. Because that is what the GOP has done. Everyone has stated that it was stupid for the GOP to do, how is that common sense?

694 So if we just beat people enough and cram your vision of morality down their throats, then a wonderful civilization capable of respecting individual rights will magically arise from this? Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (BOBhx) Straw man alert.

695 "It sure the fuck is. Don't Steal! (Morality) Don't Kill! (Morality) Don't Discriminate! (Morality) I don't know what it takes to get it through some people's heads that * ALL LAWS ARE ENFORCED MORALITY!* Law *IS* morality. " Let's install cameras in every bar in America that monitors how much every person drinks. We'll elect a board of moral responsibility that will set drink quotas for every night.

696 Law *IS* morality. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (bb5+k) Nope. Law is a set of rules put in place to help cooperation within a society... because cooperation is a necessary component to survival in the human species. To say that Law IS morality... embraces the idea that YOUR morality can then be set into law... something the Founders of this country set up the system to fight against. Because the Idea that Law IS Morality... leads you to the place where those in power dictate how the Peasants must live.... it leads directly to the Lefts ideal of the Nanny state.... just with YOU in charge, vice THEM.

697 "Nothing that wrong with Palin. She may or may not have been the best veep pick, but she was much less ludicrous than either Obama or Biden. The problem was the assassination of her character by Dems and the media (BIRM) and even some supposedly on our side." Guys, Fox dominates a lot of the news market now. It's hard to pin the blame on the media for everything at some point. If you think the problem with Palin was the media, and not Palin, then that's why we keep losing elections.

698 Why in God's name would you expect Obama to act like Reagan let alone in America's best interest when he has shown repeatedly that he will do just the opposite is a mystery. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:15 PM (g1DWB) Because the little bitch boy will MELT DOWN if told no. He will undertake truculence to the extent of non forgivable violations of the law, and we might get RID of the sonofabitch. Obama's never been told no in his life. It would be therapeutic for the country to let him see his meltdown. He almost did it with this last shutdown. If we had just been more "Fuck You!" with him, he would have probably gone over the line.

699 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (BOBhx) You will note that in past times, Americans were able to behave responsibly without there being any laws against various types of irresponsible behavior. I'm not sure why you keep insisting that we want a police state to enforce "our vision of morality."

700

D-Lamp....

 

Come to me....

701 And in case you haven't noticed the crazy strategy that I support is working. It's not eight dimensional anything. It's commonsense.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:23 PM (g1DWB)

How is anything you are doing "working"?  Has the GOP ever reduced spending?  Ever reduced gov't?  ever done anything worthwhile?

Your strategy of backing the GOP no matter what is "working" if all you care about is electing republicans - regardless of what they do.

So, yes, your strategy of blindly following the GOP and supporting increased spending and increased gov't is "working".

Congratulations.

702 Nothing that wrong with Palin. She may or may not have been the best veep pick, but she was much less ludicrous than either Obama or Biden. The problem was the assassination of her character by Dems and the media (BIRM) and even some supposedly on our side.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (r+7wo)

The ones who are supposedly on our side are the hardest to take; including a bunch of spiteful harpies who can't even articulate why they hate her other than she draws attention to what fatassed losers they are.  But we're supposed to suck it up and support a tomato can like Romney who anybody with a working cortex knew he'd run a shitty timid campaign and we'd end up with eight years of the JEF.

The sad fact of the matter is the GOPe hated Reagan and are sparing no effort to ensure that somebody like him never attains any level of accomplishment within the party.

703 Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:16 PM (bb5+k) Fuck Me! How the hell did that happen?

704 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (BOBhx) Read my post again. I was referring to that election cycle not whatever transpired afterwards. Whatever. I give up.

705 "Law is a set of rules put in place to help cooperation within a society... because cooperation is a necessary component to survival in the human species. To say that Law IS morality... embraces the idea that YOUR morality can then be set into law... something the Founders of this country set up the system to fight against. Because the Idea that Law IS Morality... leads you to the place where those in power dictate how the Peasants must live.... it leads directly to the Lefts ideal of the Nanny state.... just with YOU in charge, vice THEM." They'll just say your're strawmanning them. Apparently many can't make this connection, which is that when you advocate trying to steer society towards "morality" then you are accepting the premise of the central planners. Besides, it's silly. Our sacred right to guns overrides the massive number of gun deaths every year, but the possibility of butt secks between consenting adults corrupting society is too dangerous to allow. The young conservative movement has to develop a consistent and principled defense of individual rights. You can't defend gun rights while saying the government needs to shape society's morals.

706 One party control of the media is responsible for the irrational bias engendered in the public. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:25 PM (bb5+k) Sorry, but you cannot blame MY disdain for the GOP, on the Media. And there are MANY folks out here who do not trust the leadership of the GOP... who saw the TEA party influx to the GOP as a GOOD thing... And then watched them be sidelined and dismissed by that same Leadership.

707

OK, so I'm being told the "shutdown" was what kept the  GOP  from hammering home the realities of Obamacare.  Hey, they couldn't talk about Obamacare...they were too busy with the "shutdown" or whatever.

 

But the "shutdown" has been over for four months now.  I don't see the GOP saying much if anything about Obamacare.  Instead we have talk of amnesty coupled with Boehner bitching about House conservatives not rolling over for him.

 

 

708 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at February 14, 2014 12:19 PM (HubSo) I'll have to take your word for this as I have little knowledge of the man. I will mention that I have read commentary from other Texans regarding Stockman, and they seemed to think he was a pretty good pick.

709 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (BOBhx) Who is talking about outlawing homosexual sex? What the hell? Just because I don't approve of homosexuality doesn't mean I want to outlaw it. Jeez.

710 >>So if we just beat people enough and cram your vision of morality down their throats, then a wonderful civilization capable of respecting individual rights will magically arise from this? Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (BOBhx) << Do you understand that Bat Masterson handed out very few citations?

711 Fuck Me! How the hell did that happen?

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (bb5+k)

I'm guessing that whenever you did a CNTL-C to copy stuff, you had a lot more than you realized and didn't notice it when you pasted it.

712 @ Meremortal at February 14, 2014 12:04 PM Reading this blog with its end times rhetoric, do you blame people for not voting Republican?

713 "I'm not sure why you keep insisting that we want a police state to enforce "our vision of morality."" You may not but others here do, and explicitly say so. If I confused what you meant I'm sorry.

714 606 Nothing that wrong with Palin. She may or may not have been the best veep pick, but she was much less ludicrous than either Obama or Biden. The problem was the assassination of her character by Dems and the media (BIRM) and even some supposedly on our side. Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at February 14, 2014 12:30 PM (r+7wo) You speak for me on this.

715 But the "shutdown" has been over for four months now. I don't seethe GOP saying much if anything about Obamacare. Instead we have talk of amnesty coupled with Boehner bitching about House conservatives not rolling over for him. Posted by: @JohnTant at February 14, 2014 12:40 PM (PFy0L) NO. That is the "common sense" strategy from JackStraw and associates. You know, the one where they don't do anything but lay there. Except when conservatives must support for something, then they wake up and attack.

716 Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (BOBhx) Yeah.... I've seen posted here, more than once, that there is no Morality without Religion... When I posted my moral basis, which is that the survival of the Human race is good... therefore anything against that survival bad... And cooperation within a society, ie trust, is needed to help Race Survival... therefore stealing... bad... murder... bad... And Limiting Freedom past where you hurt someone elese.... bad (because only the Free bring advancement.... its not an accident that the most Free society ever, the USA, also led to the fastest Advancement in technology ever)...

717 @ Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM These people want a theocracy.

718 >>Well I'm tired of paying for your political complaisance and folly. I'm tired of losing my country because of it. This is war. Fight or get out of the way of those who will. Ok Fighty McFighterson. You charge up that hill of delusion you hard core True Conservative!

719 You have more stringent purity tests on unnecessary/doomed by nature debt standoffs than pro-lifers do with the no exceptions thing. If you think McConnell continually blocking legislation but not being willing to blow up the world makes him a RINO, you're an idiot. Stop treating politics like it's some fuckin videogame

720 Here's a hint, Mr. Cooke, the reason why I don't believe The Establishment is because they are fucking liars. Complete and total fucking liars and it is an insult to your intelligence to act as if I am the insane fool for thinking that.

I do not trust Our Betters because they are untrustworthy

Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:28 AM (Gk3SS)

==============================================

And there in a nutshell is why I am pessimistic about retaking the Senate this year and possibly the WH in 2016. What does it fucking matter if we're going to get bent over the table by the GOP instead of the Dems?

721 So if we just beat people enough and cram your vision of morality down their throats, then a wonderful civilization capable of respecting individual rights will magically arise from this? Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:32 PM (BOBhx) We require consequences for harming others. It's that simple. The rest will take care of itself. "The use of force alone is but temporary. It may subdue for a moment; but it does not remove the necessity of subduing again: and a nation is not governed, which is perpetually to be conquered." -Edmund Burke-

722 When I posted my moral basis, which is that the survival of the Human race is good... therefore anything against that survival bad... Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (84gbM) Says who? Some extreme enviromentalists would disagree.

723 >>NO. That is the "common sense" strategy from JackStraw and associates. You know, the one where they don't do anything but lay there. Except when conservatives must support for something, then they wake up and attack. Yea, cause thats exactly what I said. If you want to refute what I actually said have at it. If you're just going to make shit up to make yourself feel good then I'll just ignore.

724 Let's install cameras in every bar in America that monitors how much every person drinks. We'll elect a board of moral responsibility that will set drink quotas for every night. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM (BOBhx) Another Strawman.

725 *nosewrinkle* I hate blueberries.

Posted by: alexthechick - oh great SMOD can you wait til curling's done at February 14, 2014 10:34 AM (Gk3SS)

How about some brownie chunk cheesecake with chocolate ganache? I have some skill at making desserts.

726 Charlie, Professional Wrestling is fake too. Yeah, I know, insane.

727 To say that Law IS morality... embraces the idea that YOUR morality can then be set into law... something the Founders of this country set up the system to fight against. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (84gbM) And these things they believed was THEIR MORALITY. Not sure you are grasping my point. You can't divorce Law from "Right and Wrong" which is the simplest definition of morality. *A* morality will be enforced. It is just in everyone's best interest for it to be based on natural law.

728 Ok Fighty McFighterson. You charge up that hill of delusion you hard core True Conservative!

===
And you keep licking the hand that slaps you.  May your chains rest lightly upon you.

729 @ Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:33 PM Don't give these theocrats ideas please.

730 Also, why do you think McConnell "talked up" a fight too? Cuz the party core demands it, and they're convinced fiscal Armageddon is imminent (any day now)

731 Yea, cause thats exactly what I said. If you want to refute what I actually said have at it. If you're just going to make shit up to make yourself feel good then I'll just ignore. Posted by: JackStraw at February 14, 2014 12:46 PM (g1DWB) You make accusations about the government shutdown like it is still affecting people to this day. It is not and is all but forgotten except by you and other leadership apologists. You still have not answered my repeated questions as to why the brilliant GOP strategy of doing nothing also includes passing amnesty. If it was to let your enemy destroy themselves, I'm all for it. So why are they trying to float amnesty?

732 Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:45 PM (bb5+k) But the question becomes, where do you draw the line about 'hurting others'? Does someone smoking dope hurt others? does someone doing heroin? (I'd say selling Heroin does... but the user is sick)... Does drinking too much.... does... like in New York, selling too big of a Soda? Its a question of where do you draw the line.... and do you try to stop FUTURE action? (note, there is no GOP movement to stop the VA from Taking Guns away from PTSD Veterans.... PTSD is now made out to be out of control).

733 The GOP wants amnesty cause they are afraid they cannot win states like Florida in 2016 without it. Whether that's right is another q

734 Guys, Fox dominates a lot of the news market now. It's hard to pin the blame on the media for everything at some point. If you think the problem with Palin was the media, and not Palin, then that's why we keep losing elections. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 12:35 PM (BOBhx) The problem was not at all Palin. It was completely the Media, and nothing else. Obama was far more stupid, far less accomplished, and advocated far stupider ideas, but they didn't send 50 reporters searching through his garbage looking for dirt for them to gleefully report. Every fucking thing that gets on the air comes from Liberal Democrats from New York. (Or their like from elsewhere.) This *IS* the majority problem in this nation. One party control of all the reasonable means of informing the American people. They have an Air force, and we don't.

735 Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 12:49 PM (bb5+k) Horseshit... There were very religious people, and NON religious people, with VERY different moralities that wrote the Constitution... THEY decided to ere on the side of FREEDOM... to make the highest law of the Land a document that makes it HARD to put your morals into law. Because they KNEW, from their own Ranks, that Morality is SUBJECTIVE... not OBJECTIVE.

736 648 stop with the rand paulian nonsense man

737 Sorry, but you cannot blame MY disdain for the GOP, on the Media. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:38 PM (84gbM) You are a political activist, not a low information voter. For every one of you, there are a hundred of the other on whom I CAN blame Republican disdain on the media. And THEIR opinion carries the electorate.

738 These people want a theocracy.

Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (EszTV)

 

Bullshit. If the GOP can't take a stand against ninth-month moment of birth abortion on demand advocated by the Democrats, for example, then it doesn't deserve to be an opposition party.

 

Further, the GOP was founded on opposition to slavery, the great moral issue of its day. Are you telling me the stealth transformation of the Republic into a socialist superstate along quasi-Marxist lines is not, at its heart, a moral issue?

 

I suggest you read Ezekiel Emmanuel (Rahm's brother) on his (very influential)  ideas regarding transformation of the culture from a Judeo-Christian ethos to one embracing a more 'scientific' approach entailing a new morality unburdened by those old-fashioned, patriarchal constraints. The Left sure as hell views their efforts as essentially moral, although the morality they espouse is not one we would readily recognize. While you're at it, read Peter Singer's work. Philosophy defines morality. Morality shapes culture. Culture influences political thought and policies. They are all inextricably intertwined.

 

And you're an asshole.

739 I believe that Americans don't want it, and won't want it. If your response is "Let it Burn" then we really have nothing to discuss, because in your mind it's inevitable and politics don't matter anymore.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at February 14, 2014 11:20 AM (E8IHS)

It's a free comment thread, believe whatever you want.

740 Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:43 PM (84gbM) Would wish there were a slower paced forum in which to discuss this. Some of the ideas you mention dovetail perfectly with my own impressions of the origin of morality and law. Yes, "morality" is the practical equivalent of a species memory of past events. It is the consequence of previously hard learned lessons translated into custom and folklore. It is created by societal evolution, not handed down by a magic sky daddy, though for many people, the magic sky daddy is an essential part of getting it to work in practice. Memes are the product of evolution too, doncha know?

741 Does someone smoking dope hurt others? does someone doing heroin? (I'd say selling Heroin does... but the user is sick)... Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:51 PM (84gbM) Yes. I've articulated the examples of how so many times in the last six years that I am weary of reiterating it. Of course, I have done this elsewhere, and obviously must needs build the case here to make my point, but that really isn't plausible in the short time this thread will remain alive. Smoking dope causes harm to others. Not the least of which is the damage caused by introducing others to the practice. That is, in fact, the greatest harm done.

742 There were very religious people, and NON religious people, with VERY different moralities that wrote the Constitution... THEY decided to ere on the side of FREEDOM... to make the highest law of the Land a document that makes it HARD to put your morals into law. Because they KNEW, from their own Ranks, that Morality is SUBJECTIVE... not OBJECTIVE. Posted by: Romeo13 at February 14, 2014 12:54 PM (84gbM) Vanishingly few non-religious people involved in the process, by far the majority were deeply religious. Some were Deists, but that doesn't mean non religious. And no, they didn't think morality was subjective, they regarded it as objective. I could give you examples, but there isn't going to be sufficient time. I urge you to study the founding era more.

743 Smoking dope causes harm to others. Not the least of which is the damage caused by introducing others to the practice.

That is, in fact, the greatest harm done.

Well, I introduced my kids to butter.  Cholesterol is far more likely to kill them than marijuana.  Should we outlaw butter?

744 Well, I introduced my kids to butter. Cholesterol is far more likely to kill them than marijuana. Should we outlaw butter?

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (sOx93)

 

Your employment of a logical fallacy aside, I don't know that butter consumption leads to readily discernable long-term changes in brain function like THC does, but hey, don't let me be the one to harsh your mellow.

745 Well, I introduced my kids to butter. Cholesterol is far more likely to kill them than marijuana. Should we outlaw butter? Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (sOx93) Strawman. Butter is not even slightly equivalent to a mind altering substance. You might argue that Pot is of minimal impact, but I have seen the impact of crack and meth first hand, and that shit ruins the lives of addicts and everyone around them as well. I've personally known two people who died from drug overdose, and both of them left behind small children who must now be taken care of by others.

746 "Well, I introduced my kids to butter. Cholesterol is far more likely to kill them than marijuana. Should we outlaw butter?" Or for that matter alcohol, or the 30-40k who die every year in car accidents, or guns. These implications of their reasoning are obvious, but they'll say you are strawmanning. If you say the government has the right to ban certain activities on the speculation that such activities will create a society that eventually will produce people more likely to commit crime, then where do you objectively draw a line in the sand? The whole thing hinges on wishy-washy definitions of what is "socially acceptable" or other nonsense. These are the same people who were trying to ban violent video-games 20 years ago.

747 Have to go. Will check back and respond in an hour or so, if anyone cares.

748 "I've personally known two people who died from drug overdose, and both of them left behind small children who must now be taken care of by others. " My close high-school friend died from drinking alcohol and driving, and a close family member died from repeated mild concussions sustained during high school football. Where do you draw your line in the sand?

749 "Have to go. Will check back and respond in an hour or so, if anyone cares." Have a good day, sorry If I got steamed :-/

750 Strawman. Butter is not even slightly equivalent to a mind altering substance.


Talk about moving the goalposts any time you are challenged.  So, your argument is that nobody should be allowed to use mind-altering substances?  Chocolate has been scientifically proven to have a mind-altering effect.  What about alcohol.  How about caffeine?

Is your argument that marijuana is bad because it hurts people or because it is mind-altering?

You can't have it both ways.  If you are talking about health risks - butter is more deadly. If you are talking about mind-altering capability - you are being nothing but a nanny.  You don't like the idea of other people using chemicals for personal enjoyment.


And talking about crack and heroine when discussing pot is like me saying you shouldn't eat fish because you are allergic to bees.  And if you are going to claim "gateway", then you may as well start outlawing everything. The idea that everyone or even most people who smoke pot end up using crack or heroine is absurd.

751 Your employment of a logical fallacy aside, I don't know that butter consumption leads to readily discernable long-term changes in brain function like THC does, but hey, don't let me be the one toharsh your mellow.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (O66NZ)

The argument was posited that pot should be illegal because it "harms people" and the greatest harm was people introducing pot to other people

I suggested that cholesterol is far, far more deadly than Pot, which is absolutely true, and that I introduced my child to butter.

I don't think you understand what logic is or what a fallacy is.

752 667 Your employment of a logical fallacy aside, I don't
know that butter consumption leads to readily discernable long-term
changes in brain function like THC does, but hey, don't let me be the
one toharsh your mellow.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 01:13 PM (O66NZ)

And, there is very little scientific proof to back up this assertion. 

I don't even smoke pot, but you people with your nanny-state mindset are ridiculous.  You are just like the left, you just have different aspects of other people's lives you want to control.

753 "And if you are going to claim "gateway", then you may as well start outlawing everything." I think cosplay pictures are the gateway to sexy picture addiction, which is why the gaming thread stopped showing them.

754 These are the same people who were trying to ban violent video-games 20 years ago.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:15 PM (BOBhx)

 

You keep perpetuating the same fallacious comparisons to keep the pro-pot argument afloat. No, marijuana is not the same as butter. No, opposition to legalization of marijuana is not identical to banning violent video games or obscene lyrics. No, stoners are not freedom fighters and champions of liberty. They are, in fact, a detriment to liberty because no one can motivate them to get off the fucking couch and actually do something worthwhile. I'm guessing a big reason libertarians don't do so well in elections is because they're too busy getting high and eating pizza and playing with the kids and the dog to make their way to a polling place.

 

You like to get high? Fine. Get high. That you might find it troublesome to get high at times is just not a matter of serious concern to the rest of us.

755 The bulk of the national Republican Party leadership are frauds. They aren't for smaller government, nor constitutional government. The difference between them and the their opposition is cosmetic, with enough lip-service to fool the rubes who actually believe in the former. They're perfectly happy being in control working the same reins they criticize when out of power. The only problem is many of the rubes finally figured out they were being lied to based on the difference between their rhetoric and action. Tough shit, they deserve to lose. The pity is that they won't. Eventually they'll just replace the base with former illegal immigrants and/or scare them into line with another unnecessary war.

756 No, stoners are not freedom fighters and champions of liberty. They are, in fact, a detriment to liberty because no one can motivate them to get off the fucking couch and actually do something worthwhile. I'm guessing a big reason libertarians don't do so well in elections is because they're too busy getting high and eating pizza and playing with the kids and the dog to make their way to a polling place.

You like to get high? Fine. Get high. That you might find it troublesome to get high at times is just not a matter of serious concern to the rest of us.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 01:28 PM (O66NZ)

This is some of the stupidest nonsense I've seen in a long time.  Lack of knowledge about pot?  Check.  Lack of knowledge about people who have smoked pot?  check. 

Absurd statements like people who smoke pot are a "detriment to liberty"?  Check.

Good lord.  It's like you people don't want to use your brains.

757

758 Here's a question for Cruz supporters, those who think he isn't a cynical self-promoter. One of the really striking things about the last big debt-ceiling crisis was that no-one presented any detailed plan as to how the US could avoid default if the ceiling was not raised. All you heard were some Republicans claiming offhandedly that the US could make enough cuts to expenditure to avoid defaulting on its sovereign debt. Now I'm inclined to believe that those claims were likely true—but where were the numbers, the detailed (or just somewhat-detailed) plan and budget for achieving this? Without a plan to present, the Federal bureaucracy's projection ("gosh, we can't possibly prioritise our spending at all") and the common assumption that ceiling not raised=default went largely unchallenged. No doubt the US media should have dug into the question rather than just parroting these. But relying on the media to do your homework for you is always a bad idea, and especially when a) you are a Republican and b) it is math homework. So, why? Why was no plan presented? It's no use blaming "Congressional RINOs" for not doing it, any more than blaming the media: if your argument is that the GOP's debt-filibuster faction couldn't get an outline fiscal plan drawn up without the co-operation of Boehner or McConnell, then you're basically conceding that they can't be taken seriously. AFAICS that leaves two explanations (again assuming that it actually was possible to draw up a budgetary plan that had a realistic chance of avoiding default): 1) Cruz et al weren't even hoping that things would ever get that far, let alone expecting it. Their plan all along was to win the slow bicycle race they'd set up: have the debt ceiling extended by the Democrats and some Republicans while they got to vote against it. A cynical kabuki exercise. 2) It was possible to plan for large enough cutbacks to avoid default, but not without pencilling in cuts that would have been utterly toxic politically (coughSocial Securitycough). Had any such plan been put on paper and handed out, the Democrats and media would have had a field day digging out and shouting about the gory details of what the Republican right wanted to do to your entitlements. Of course, if even publishing a plan was much too politicially dangerous, what does that say about the odds of actually implementing it? Back to explanation 1...

759 —DrewM is easily the worst on this blog. I don't know why Ace lets him post his screeds that look like they were written in crayon and passed down from his treehouse and always end with conservatives shooting themselves in the foot. He's a blog killer. Drew, you are an under-endowed little man who is out to prove something, save us your chest thumping and your purges, it may ingratiate you with other imbeciles, but it results in turning over power to the democrats and socialists. Other than that, you are still a douche bag.

760 I don't even smoke pot, but you people with your nanny-state mindset are ridiculous. You are just like the left, you just have different aspects of other people's lives you want to control.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:28 PM (sOx93)

 

I truly don't care what you think or do or say or write, and have no desire to control any of it. However, if you want to argue the merits of drug legalization then by all means go for it. That said,  know that when you argue a case advancing a particular issue or cause, reason is not suspended. Time and again, you and your like-minded pals employ fallacies of equivalence (pot = butter) and strawman arguments and then act all butthurt when you're called on it. Now you're going for the ad hominem, equating me with those authoritarian assholes of the Left.

 

In short, nothing you've written so far has made the case for pot and/or across-the-board drug legalization. You can call me other names and make other fallacious comparisons if that will make you feel better, but that won't make your case, either. 

761 Good lord. It's like you people don't want to use your brains.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:31 PM (sOx93)

 

*chuckles, shakes head*

 

You're kind of an emotional little lightweight, aren't you?

762 "You like to get high? Fine. Get high. That you might find it troublesome to get high at times is just not a matter of serious concern to the rest of us." i. I don't smoke pot. ii. Leave the psychologizing and character assassination to the leftists.

763 115 DrewMs victimology is also indicated in his headline. Who the fuck asked you to cheer the GOP. Cooke was pointing out your schoolyard taunts that resemble the Left more than any legitimate conservative criticism. Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 14, 2014 10:42 AM (pJB7q) Exactly. It's sound and fury meant to be red meat for the merry band of outrage addicts.

764 Well, I introduced my kids to butter. Cholesterol is far more likely to kill them than marijuana. Should we outlaw butter? Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:10 PM (sOx93) Cholesterol doesn't kill anyone. Heart disease and circulatory system blockage does. Butter is not as bad for you as margarine is. In fact most studies over the past few decades have come to show that consuming animal fats/proteins actually help more than harm people. In fact, in a recent study people who switched from animal fats/protein diet to a diet containing largely vegetable oils (like safflower oil) had a lower risk of disease from all categories. Most people's cholesterol levels are not controlled by diet, they are genetically predisposed to having high cholesterol.

765 Let's assume that smoking pot is cumulatively harmful to people who smoke it, much like cigarettes, alcohol, and food is harmful to people.

If the anti-pot people's real position is "harmful to your health" - then why stop there?

Obesity harms far, far more people than pot does in terms of health.  Why not pass laws mandating physical activity and banning large sodas?  Why not ban alcohol?  Why not outlaw tobacco?  Why not outlaw all junk food?

Lots of people get seriously injured each year playing sports.  Why not ban those?

If you say "that's a straw man", explain why?  The only difference between the harm marijuana causes and some of the things I mention above is that marijuana also has a recreational mind-altering use. 

there is no difference in terms of health risk - the health risk is much greater for obesity, alcohol and tobacco than it is for marijuana - so claiming you are against legalization because of health risk seems disingenuous at best - because if that were true you would be agitating for laws about what people could eat.

No, the reality is that the driving force behind anti-legalization is based entirely on a sense that using a mind altering substance is immoral.  Which is fine - if that is what you believe that is what you believe - but all of the other arguments just sound completely dishonest.  Admit that you don't want to see people doing something you consider immoral.  There is, in fact, plenty of basis for that in the law - such as prostitution. 

But don't tell me you oppose marijuana legalization because it is so deadly or harmful because that is pure nonsense.  Not even the most anti-pot doctor would make that claim.  You have to smoke a hell of a lot of pot before you start seeing significant health related effects, and the vast majority of pot users would never come close to smoking that amount - just as the vast majority of alcohol drinkers don't become alcoholics or get cirrhosis.

766 Gee, I used to love Charles C.W. Cooke but I'm getting a whole new view of him. He's awfully thin-skinned. He's on Twatter, whining like a victim about all the vitriol coming from conservatives about his article. I looked over his TL and saw almost no vitriol at all. I saw disagreement but what did he expect?

I tweeted him and told him I didn't see much vitriol, just disagreement and asked him what he expected based on his article. He replied "thought". On twitter? Really? In 140 characters or less he wanted thoughtful argument? I replied that I had put my thoughts in the comments to his article, as did 100s of other people.

I don't mind his article, I don't agree with his take but what's with the delicate flower routine? Has he ever seen leftist vitriol on twitter? I am so sick of the victim card. Say what you think and defend it, quit all the whining, it's sickening.

767 i. I don't smoke pot.
ii. Leave the psychologizing and character assassination to the leftists.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 01:41 PM (BOBhx)

 

I don't care if you smoke pot or not. You're arguing the case for its legalization, and I'm engaging in a counter-argument on those grounds.  Beating you in argument does not equate to character assassination. Besides, it's impossible to assassinate the character of an anonymous Internet person calling himself Roadrunner. 'Roadrunner' has no character to assassinate. 'Roadrunner' is a fiction, a made-up name.

 

If you so closely identify with your Internet persona that you worry about attacks on Roadrunner's character, then maybe you should step away from the machine and the flickering screen for a while and get back in touch with the real world.

768 That said, know that when you argue a case advancing a particular issue or cause, reason is not suspended. Time and again, you and your like-minded pals employ fallacies ofequivalence (pot = butter) and strawman arguments and then act all butthurt when you're called on it. Nowyou're going for the ad hominem, equating me withthose authoritarian assholes of the Left.

In short, nothing you've written so far has made the case for pot and/or across-the-board drug legalization. You can call me othernamesand make other fallacious comparisons if that will make you feel better, but that won't make your case, either.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 01:38 PM (O66NZ)

You have reading comprehension issues.  Serious ones.  I never claimed to be making a case for across the baord legalization of anything or even pot legalization.  I only got involved in this at all because of the absurd arguments that were being made against legalization and am simply pointing out their absurdity.

Because you say something has a false equivalence, does not make it so.

The person I responded to said that pot was extremely harmful to people and that introducing pot to others was the worst sin.  I responded to that because it is so stupid as to make me laugh.  

And, you are arguing for control over people's behavior.  That is a totalitarian tendency.  I pointed it out.  And now you cry and call me butthurt because I pointed it out?  Please.  Look in the mirror.

You have made no argument as to why pot is bad.  Your repeatedly state it is bad, but offer no scientific support for this common myth. 

My point with butter was that marijuana is no more harmful than many other things - so the idea that people like you are really motivated by health concerns is completely dishonest.  You are motivated purely by your own sense of morality.  You want the law to reflect what you consider moral.  Health issues are not even remotely involved, otherwise you would be agitating for banning junk food and alcohol. 

Claiming that pot and, say, junk food, have an equivalence is not a straw man.  If you argument truly is "health concern" than explain why the gov't should not be involved in controlling what we eat considering that obesity is a far, far worse and more prevalent problem than health issues from marijuana?

the problem is you won't - you'll again assert "straw man" or "false equivalence" and pretend you are making rational arguments.  You are not.

I'm not butt-hurt because nothing I have argued has been in any way refuted with any facts or logic - except maybe that butter isn't a big health problem.

769 Can we please get over Christine O'Donnell already? As a Tea Party conservative I make no apology for trying to turn this country back on course to the Constitution. We didn't lose the Senate, the GOP establishment did. Tea Party voters and candidates are trying to win it back. Bitching about "enforcing discipline" is just hurting the cause and giving the Dems ammo against the very people who want to rescue the country from their clutches. Bottom line: no Tea Party support, no GOP majority in either house, so stop with the Establishment-excusing handwringing already and fucking get on board. Or you can sit around for the rest of your lives and snipe at each other about legalizing pot while our freedoms go up in smoke.

770 *chuckles, shakes head*

You're kind of an emotional little lightweight, aren't you?

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 01:41 PM (O66NZ)

I admit to getting frustrated by people who can't think logically yet believe themselves to be highly intelligent and think they have made rational arguments.

771 You have reading comprehension issues. Serious ones. I never claimed to be making a case for across the baord legalization of anything or even pot legalization. Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:52 PM (sOx93) Perhaps not, but you have certainly staked out the philosophical grounds upon which such an argument is to be based. I.E. that people have a "RIGHT" to deliberately tamper with their reasoning capability, and you likewise ignore any damages they cause to others from having done so. This is the problem with Libertarian thought, it is too limited in scope of harm in both the physical and time dimension. So Phillip Seymore Hoffman's children were not injured by his conduct? Were he not rich, *WE* would be footing the bill for them, as is the usual case in the vast majority of such conditions. We cannot have two laws. One for the wealthy who can afford to be foolish, and another for the poor who would leave us footing the bill.

772 What people don't seem to understand or care, apparently, is that Republicans have zero power to do anything. What do you realistically think they can accomplish when the only hold one have of one branch of government. Too many Tea-Partiers or "real conservatives" are starting to sound like liberal theoreticians, expecting a Republican utopia. I hate to be the ones to break it to you, with the numbers the GOP currently has in the federal government, it's just not possible.

773 Can we please get over Christine O'Donnell already?

Posted by: YFS at February 14, 2014 01:59 PM (evUpK)

You forget, no GOP establishment candidate ever lost a senate race.  The GOP establishment has never backed someone who turned out to be a bad candidate. [/sarcasm]

774 But don't tell me you oppose marijuana legalization because it is so deadly or harmful because that is pure nonsense. Not even the most anti-pot doctor would make that claim. You have to smoke a hell of a lot of pot before you start seeing significant health related effects, and the vast majority of pot users would never come close to smoking that amount - just as the vast majority of alcohol drinkers don't become alcoholics or get cirrhosis.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:43 PM (sOx93)

 

I oppose marijuana legalization because of the detrimental longterm socio/cultural/economic impact of such legalization. Legalization of any given activity is de facto societal sanction and endorsement of that activity, for one thing. For another, legalization of marijuana could lead (very logically) to legalization of other now-illegal drugs or even all drugs. Even Holland has backed off on its laissez faire approach because of very evident damage to the social fabric in those areas where drug use is most prevalent. There are other reasons and other ramifications to consider, but that's the heart of it.

 

What the country most needs right now is an informed, engaged citizenry. We are losing are freedoms because a sizeable chunk of the electorate is willfully apathetic and disengaged. The very last thing we need is legalization of a substance that makes people even more apathetic and disengaged.

775 688 What people don't seem to understand or care, apparently, is that Republicans have zero power to do anything. What do you realistically think they can accomplish when the only hold one have of one branch of government. Too many Tea-Partiers or "real conservatives" are starting to sound like liberal theoreticians, expecting a Republican utopia. I hate to be the ones to break it to you, with the numbers the GOP currently has in the federal government, it's just not possible. Posted by: rexbatt at February 14, 2014 02:01 PM (9NHfs) Tell that to every Democrat Speaker of the House. Better yet, ask Tip O'Neill.

776 "What the country most needs right now is an informed, engaged citizenry. We are losing are freedoms because a sizeable chunk of the electorate is willfully apathetic and disengaged. The very last thing we need is legalization of a substance that makes people even more apathetic and disengaged." You're right, and kids spend too much time playing video games instead of reading books. Let's form a board of social values and vote to ban video games and other sinful activities. To be free, we must constrain freedom. To have individual liberty, individual liberties must be constrained to match social attitudes of what is normal.

777 But don't tell me you oppose marijuana legalization because it is so deadly or harmful because that is pure nonsense. Not even the most anti-pot doctor would make that claim. You have to smoke a hell of a lot of pot before you start seeing significant health related effects, and the vast majority of pot users would never come close to smoking that amount - just as the vast majority of alcohol drinkers don't become alcoholics or get cirrhosis. Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 01:43 PM (sOx93) Interestingly enough, I've researched the incidence of pot usage amongst serial killers and recent mass murderers, (Jarrod Loughner,James Holmes ) and it seems to be rather ubiquitous among both groups. Other research indicates that physiological breaks appear to be often associated with long term marijuana usage. This does not prove correlation, but it does give enough evidence for a reasonable person to consider a connection.

778 "I oppose marijuana legalization because of the detrimentallongterm socio/cultural/economic impact of such legalization." The widespread availability of pornography on the internet has honestly probably had a a detrimental effect on the ability of men to enjoy a normal sex life with their spouses. This breaks down the nuclear family, and unravels the fabric of society. We need to ban pornography.

779 "Interestingly enough, I've researched the incidence of pot usage amongst serial killers and recent mass murderers, (Jarrod Loughner,James Holmes ) and it seems to be rather ubiquitous among both groups. Other research indicates that physiological breaks appear to be often associated with long term marijuana usage. This does not prove correlation, but it does give enough evidence for a reasonable person to consider a connection. " People said the same thing about violent video games and the kids who shot up schools. Correlation is not causation. Besides, how many husbands get drunk and physically abuse their spouse or children weekly?

780 Perhaps not, but you have certainly staked out the philosophical grounds upon which such an argument is to be based. I.E. that people have a "RIGHT" to deliberately tamper with their reasoning capability, and you likewise ignore any damages they cause to others from having done so.

This is the problem with Libertarian thought, it is too limited in scope of harm in both the physical and time dimension.

So Phillip Seymore Hoffman's children were not injured by his conduct?

Were he not rich, *WE* would be footing the bill for them, as is the usual case in the vast majority of such conditions.

We cannot have two laws. One for the wealthy who can afford to be foolish, and another for the poor who would leave us footing the bill. Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:00 PM (bb5+k)

I'm sorry to be rude, but that is just idiotic.  "do it for the children"?  That's your argument?  People die do to obesity and their kids are left without children - where do you draw the line.

As I stated above, you are being entirely dishonest.  If the real reason behind your stance wasn't your own morality, you would be just as certain that the gov't should control what we eat - again, far, far, far more people die do to obesity then pot. 

Your argument is both absurd and as far from conservative thought as it gets.  We have to control people's behavior to protect them from themselves?  that's the bottom line of your argument and it is as totalitarian in its basis as anything from the left.

Rational arguments can be made not to legalize pot - you aren't making them.

Why don't we outlaw all tobacco?  Why don't we outlaw alcohol?  Why don't we outlaw fast-food?  those things all have far more health impact than legalized marijuana ever would.

it is actually scary to hear someone who considers them self to be a conservative say that we should have laws to protect people from themselves "for the children".  It's as if you have no understanding of conservatism at all.

Adults with children engage in all kind of conduct that can lead to death - motorcycle, atv's, sky-diving, skiing, rock-climbing.  Should we regulate it all to "protect the children"?  Where does it end?

781 I admit to getting frustrated by people who can't think logically yet believe themselves to be highly intelligent and think they have made rational arguments.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 02:00 PM (sOx93)

 

I have (and continue to make) a rational argument. You can take what I've written and diagram it in detail, if you like. One thing leads to another in a fairly straight line. Freshman stuff.

 

Insofar as 'the highly intelligent' bit is concerned, I've had the good fortune to meet and know several people in the course of my life who are intellectually off the charts, true geniuses, and know that I'm not one of them. However, I can put together facts, draw premises from those facts in evidence, and then make conclusions from those premises. You, on the other hand, seem to have a hard time with this whole reasoned argument thing. I suggest some basic online logic courses. Some are free.

782 Tell that to every Democrat Speaker of the House. Better yet, ask Tip O'Neill. Posted by: NWConservative at February 14, 2014 02:04 PM (buZ/ Exactly the point I made earlier. ALL SPENDING BILLS must originate in the house. If the house passes no spending bill, the Senate cannot either. We have the power of the Asshole in that old joke about which part of the body should be in control. We can clench our "Asshole cheeks" together and make the entire fucking system back up. We have the absolute fucking ultimate power over spending in Washington, we just have leadership which is too chickenshit afraid of the media to dare use that power. Tip O'Neil was NOT AFRAID to use this power, and did so routinely. This is how he forced Reagan to accept tax increases against his own principles and interest.

783 I oppose marijuana legalization because of the detrimentallongterm socio/cultural/economic impact of such legalization. Legalization of any given activity is de facto societal sanction and endorsement of that activity, for one thing. For another, legalization of marijuana could lead (very logically) to legalization of other now-illegal drugs or even all drugs. Even Holland has backed off on its laissez faire approach because of very evident damage to the social fabric in those areas where drug use is most prevalent. There are other reasons and other ramifications to consider, but that's the heart of it.

This is an argument I could see making some sense if it is fleshed out with facts.

What the country most needs right now is an informed, engaged citizenry. We are losing are freedoms because a sizeable chunk of the electorate is willfully apathetic and disengaged. The very last thing we need is legalization of a substance that makes people even more apathetic and disengaged.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 02:02 PM (O66NZ)

This last bit is just ignorance of marijuana.  You should really stop saying it because it makes you look foolish.  The vast majority of people who use marijuana do so on an occasional basis, the same way most people drink alcohol.  Your belief that the vast majority of pot smokers are the "slackers" portrayed by Hollywood does you no favors in your arguments.

784 689 I get you. Too true.

785 I have (and continue to make) a rational argument. You can take what I've written and diagram it in detail, if you like. One thing leads to another in a fairly straight line. Freshman stuff.

Insofar as 'the highly intelligent' bit is concerned, I've had the good fortune to meet and know several people in the course of my life who are intellectually off the charts, true geniuses, and know that I'm not one of them. However, I can put together facts, draw premises from those facts in evidence, and then make conclusions from those premises. You, on the other hand, seem to have a hard time with this whole reasoned argument thing. I suggest some basic online logic courses. Some are free.

Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 02:10 PM (O66NZ)

What's amusing to me is you probably believe all of that.

786 People said the same thing about violent video games and the kids who shot up schools. Correlation is not causation. Besides, how many husbands get drunk and physically abuse their spouse or children weekly? Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:09 PM (BOBhx) You are making an argument for limiting alcohol? Really? With pot, it's not just anecdotal. I occasionally read of studies supported by medical researchers as to the psychotic break phenomena associated with pot. Don't get me wrong. I'm somewhat happy that Colorado and Washington decided to be guinea pigs for the rest of us. I will not be surprised if it turns out badly, but I will reevaluate my position on the subject if it turns out relatively benign.

787 I'm sorry to be rude, but that is just idiotic. "do it for the children"? That's your argument? People die do to obesity and their kids are left without children - where do you draw the line. Numbers, and direct correlation. That is the place where every line gets drawn on pretty much all threats to the public. And don't assert that the case of Phillip Seymore Hoffman is a "Do it for the children!" Argument. This is intellectually dishonest. The "Do it for the Children!" Argument is abstract, generalized, and not indicative of specific children who have been victimized by the conduct of others. It's a touchy feely explosion of emotion with no real rational thought behind it. Phillip Seymore Hoffman's children are direct victims of his foolish behavior. *HE* HURT his children.

788 "We can clench our "Asshole cheeks" together and make the entire fucking system back up. We have the absolute fucking ultimate power over spending in Washington, we just have leadership which is too chickenshit afraid of the media to dare use that power." 100% agree. If they were going to play chicken over the budget, they should have gone all-in and not caved. When they caved it just made them look foolish and unconvinced of their own actions.

789 "This last bit is just ignorance of marijuana. You should really stop saying it because it makes you look foolish. The vast majority of people who use marijuana do so on an occasional basis, the same way most people drink alcohol. Your belief that the vast majority of pot smokers are the "slackers" portrayed by Hollywood does you no favors in your arguments." Yup. You might as well assume that the cartoon Captain Planet's presentation of oil tycoons as crazy super villains is accurate.

790 We have to control people's behavior to protect them from themselves? Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 02:09 PM (sOx93) No, but this is the line Libertarians keep repeating in the same manner as Democrats scream "RACISM!" We have to ban certain behavior to protect innocent victims from the consequences of it. See Phillip Seymour Hoffman's children e.g. Beyond that, if tolerated, drug usage expands in the manner of a disease. The lesson of China shows that addiction spreads according to a logistical growth function. If you don't ban it, it will eventually infect so many people that the country cannot survive, just as China did not survive the attack from much smaller Japan. Tolerance of dangerous Drugs in any society is an existential mistake and such a society will over the long term cease to be functional.

791 Your belief that the vast majority of pot smokers are the "slackers" portrayed by Hollywood does you no favors in your arguments.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 02:13 PM (sOx93)

 

I'm a recovering drug addict and alcoholic with 12 years, 11 months, and three days of continuous sobriety. I know about drugs, drug users, and detrimental effects. You might say I'm an authority on the 'detrimental effects' part. I close my eyes and see an ocean of faces: friends dead, friends brain damaged and crazy, friends in homes and prisons. So no, I don't get my ideas about drugs and drug use via television sitcoms.

 

Look on the bright side: most people seem to agree with your stance that drug legalization is the way to go. I also argued against legalized gambling back in the day, and you can see how that turned out. Losing doesn't mean I'm not right. If I believe I'm right, I'll keep going until I run out of voice or I'm persuaded otherwise. So far, I remain unpersuaded.

 

792 Legalization of any given activity is de facto societal sanction and endorsement of that activity Nonsense. Look where you started; at legalization. A weed! A weed that grows like... weeds! Was made illegal! The ridiculousness of that is simply outstanding and yet you skip right over it as if it were ever even once reasonable. It is not "legalization of a weed" it is "decriminalization" of something that should never have even been talked about in the first place. At last, a faint flicker of sanity off in the distance. Consider making tumbleweeds illegal to see how stupid this whole thing was and still is.

793 Your belief that the vast majority of pot smokers are the "slackers" portrayed by Hollywood does you no favors in your arguments. Posted by: Monkeytoe at February 14, 2014 02:13 PM (sOx93) I know quite a few slackers who smoke pot regularly. I do not know any productive people who do so. I know plenty who do not. The slackers I know? They all get government checks, so guess who is paying for their "freedom"? (Well, except for that one 40 year old guy who is still living with his mommie. He doesn't get a check.)

794 Consider making tumbleweeds illegal to see how stupid this whole thing was and still is.

Posted by: bour3 at February 14, 2014 02:33 PM (5x3+2)

 

Another false equivalence. You guys couldn't debate my mother's cat, and it died years ago.

795 100% agree. If they were going to play chicken over the budget, they should have gone all-in and not caved. When they caved it just made them look foolish and unconvinced of their own actions. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:25 PM (BOBhx) I also postulate had they stuck to their guns, and maybe added a whole lot of "FUCK YOU BITCH" commentary directed at Obama, his head very likely would have exploded, and he would have instigated some doomsday level of illegality. If we could have pushed him over the edge into blatantly illegal activity of sufficient severity (which he was getting very close to doing anyway) we maybe could have gotten rid of the fucker.

796 A weed! A weed that grows like... weeds! Was made illegal! Posted by: bour3 at February 14, 2014 02:33 PM (5x3+2) Yeah, poppies should be totes legal. No bad consequences there.

797 Yeah, poppies should be totes legal. No bad consequences there.

Posted by: D-Lamp at February 14, 2014 02:42 PM (bb5+k)

 

Mushrooms? Perfectly natural, man. It's like God gave them to us. Thank you, God.

 

Interesting side note: Dr. Albert Hoffman invented LSD as a psychiatric tool, a means to treat (and possibly cure) drug and alcohol addiction by artificially recreating the spiritual event (for lack of a better term) that had provably cured alcoholics and drug addicts in the past, a kind of pharmaceutical corrollary to the tent revival meeting. Disparate figures with interests in mental health and addiction issues such as AA's co-founder Bill Wilson and writer Aldous Huxley corresponded heavily with Hoffman and (to greater and lesser degrees) even took part in its early clinical trials.  LSD was not a success story, as the mile-high heaps of dead and permanently brain-damaged LSD users can attest. But hey, let's legalize it anyway. What the hell, why not? Just like tumbleweeds.

798 But hey, let's legalize it anyway. What the hell, why not? Just like tumbleweeds. Posted by: troyriser at February 14, 2014 02:56 PM (O66NZ) I think those people who are all in favor of legalizing drugs "because it's a RIGHT!", give very little thought to the massive body piles throughout history who have been the victims of this "right." They are like the Liberal Utopians in that regard, who cannot see the consequences of their foolish ideas either.

799 >>100% agree. If they were going to play chicken over the budget, they should have gone all-in and not caved. When they caved it just made them look foolish and unconvinced of their own actions. Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 02:25 PM (BOBhx) << Most Americans get an hourly wage, and most people earning an hourly wage have been upset about unapproved overtime being withheld. You have the basic paycheck, it just isn't as complete as you'd like. That is just where the House left the Senate in the "shutdown". The House paid to keep the lights on, but it wasn't everything demanded. The Senate chose to tear up the paycheck unless it was complete. I think that argument could have been put to the American public and have been understood. Instead, Mr. Boehner goes on the Tonight Show and declares it was all the Republican's fault.

800 "I think those people who are all in favor of legalizing drugs "because it's a RIGHT!", give very little thought to the massive body piles throughout history who have been the victims of this "right." They are like the Liberal Utopians in that regard, who cannot see the consequences of their foolish ideas either. " From my perspective your position is like that of any central planner, who thinks that his vision of a great society is rational and will work, if only he has the power to steer society in the direction he wants. These centrally planned societies gather an incredible heap of bodies at worst, or at best break the budget while never achieving their goals. To me that's just the broad point here: the centrally planned society fails. It doesn't matter if it's Keynesians trying to tinker with the economy by deficit spending, or conservatives trying to "protect society from corruption" by banning certain actions, or technocrats dreaming that they can regulate the economy to prosperity.

801 "To me that's just the broad point here: the centrally planned society fails. It doesn't matter if it's Keynesians trying to tinker with the economy by deficit spending, or conservatives trying to "protect society from corruption" by banning certain actions, or technocrats dreaming that they can regulate the economy to prosperity." Suppose we just decriminalize civil rights violations by the Neighborhood Watch?

802 To me that's just the broad point here: the centrally planned society fails. It doesn't matter if it's Keynesians trying to tinker with the economy by deficit spending, or conservatives trying to "protect society from corruption" by banning certain actions, or technocrats dreaming that they can regulate the economy to prosperity.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 03:22 PM (BOBhx)

 

Sorry, but opposition to drug legalization is not synonymous with advocacy of a top-down, centralized planning authoritarian regime. You keep doing employing this particular trick but repetition will not make it work. It remains a logical fallacy.

 

Since you and yours cannot argue drug legalization as a positive good--which it isn't by any measure (unless you're Timothy Leary)--then you must by necessity paint opposition to it as an expression of the authoritarian/totalitarian impulse, which in turn opens up all kinds of erroneous examples and logical fallacies such as the ever-ready false equivalence. Pretty soon you'll be bringing up Hitler, I suppose, which is the usual end to these kinds of arguments when those losing an argument have nothing else to fall back on but the most extreme form of authoritarianism they can think of.

803 "Sorry, but opposition to drug legalization is not synonymous with advocacy of a top-down, centralized planning authoritarian regime. You keep doing employing this particular trick but repetition will not make it work. It remains a logical fallacy. " It IS a top-down, centrally planned authoritarian issue. If someone sell drugs armed agents of the government will raid their house. How many terribly planned no-knock raids end in disaster every year? The government on all levels has committed to a "war on drugs" both in words and in actions. "Since you and yours cannot argue drug legalization as a positive good--which it isn't by any measure (unless you're Timothy Leary)--then you must by necessity paint opposition to it as an expression of the authoritarian/totalitarian impulse" Are you really saying that something must be proven to be "positive good" before it should be legalized? Is masturbating while looking at pictures of nude women "positive good"?

804 On tactics and strategy observe how the Dems behave when they are in the minority in the House and/or Senate. Take note of how they behave when we hold the White House. Compare that with how the GOP behaves in the same situation. It's clear that the GOP leadership doesn't understand how to use their power. On ideology and policy, take a look at how the GOP behaves when it's in the majority in Congress and holds the White House (such as the W years). They're tactically and strategically incompetent and dishonest on ideology and policy. "We must win" isn't the end goal. "We must implement our ideology and policies" is the end goal. The present GOP won't accomplish that for me if they hold the entire government. That is why we fight-fight. Let them burn.

805

Another thing, too: whenever your arguments are countered, you never respond to the counterargument. Instead, you try another line of argument. For example, you accused me of assassinating your character; i.e., committing an ad hominem fallacy. I responded by telling you that it is impossible to assassinate the character of an anonymous poster on the Internet since--by definition--character, personality traits and other attributes are tied to real-world identities, not made-up Internet personae. You failed to respond. Why? Because you lost that line of argument, and that's what losers do.

 

Anyway, it's fun to watch you dance. Keep going.

806 Are you really saying that something must be proven to be "positive good" before it should be legalized? Is masturbating while looking at pictures of nude women "positive good"?

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 03:40 PM (BOBhx)

 

All sorts of things are legal that are not a positive good in the balance of things. However, I don't think private masturbation has ever been illegal, strictly speaking, and if it has I don't know of anyone arrested for it. The porn part? Pornography has been illegal in the past. Whether it should be is another argument since porn isn't marijuana and the ramification of its production, distribution and use differ from those dealing with drug use. Two different things. Not the same thing.

 

Get that? It's another argument. Pot does not equal porn and chronic  masturbation is your problem, not mine.

807 "Another thing, too: whenever your arguments are countered, you never respond to the counterargument. Instead, you try another line of argument." I'm trying to take your ideas to their logical ending to show they aren't sensible. For example, you say: "Since you and yours cannot argue drug legalization as a positive good--which it isn't by any measure (unless you're Timothy Leary)--then you must by necessity paint opposition to it as an expression of the authoritarian/totalitarian impulse" and I respond: Are you really saying that something must be proven to be "positive good" before it should be legalized? Is masturbating while looking at pictures of nude women "positive good"? Really, what does your judgment of "positive good" have to do with the legality of anything? That's a serious question that I think deserves answering. "For example, you accused me of assassinating your character; i.e., committing an ad hominem fallacy. I responded by telling you that it is impossible to assassinate the character of an anonymous poster on theInternet since--by definition--character, personality traitsand other attributes are tied to real-world identities, not made-up Internet personae. You failed to respond. Why? " Because I found this line of argumentation to be silly.

808 All this criticism of the Tea Party seems to boil down to they are uncouth and don't know their place. I'm sure King George felt the same way about the colonies. I'm an apostate myself because I'm an old man without hope for grandchildren. I suspect that is why abortion and birth control are sacraments to the Sadducee of today.

809 Because I found this line of argumentation to be silly.

Posted by: Roadrunner at February 14, 2014 03:51 PM (BOBhx)

 

*sigh*. So 'Oh that's just silly' is your way of refuting counter-arguments in debate? Okay. Run with it, then. Have fun. Good luck.

810 Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 14, 2014 03:40 PM (il1Hy) Oh, but, they couldn't do anything with the White House and Senate and House and Supreme Court! LOOK AT THE POLLS!

811 DrewM said: "If you want to change the way business has been done under Democrats and Republicans alike, at some point you will have to change the people doing that business." And the best way to do that is to get conservatives into all of the 200,000 or so vacant precinct committeeman slots of the Republican Party ASAP (there's about 400,000 total; half are vacant) per The Neighborhood Precinct Committeeman Strategy. You know, doing that -- ugh! -- mundane stuff like going to local monthly Party committee meetings, getting signatures to get on the ballot (a whopping ten signatures needed to get elected PC in some states! Whew!) where needed and then actually making phone calls and going door-to-door in one's precinct to nudge those Republican voters who only vote 50% of the time (about a third of Republicans) to the polls. The Party will supply the walking/call sheets. Do that, and we conservatives will be on the road to winning elections. Don't do it, and we'll continue to lose. I hope this helps. ColdWarrior http://www.redstate.com/coldwarrior http://theprecinctproject.wordpress.com

812 Cooke doesn't realize the effect of McConnell's and Boehner's actions on party morale and growth. Anyone in the trenches constantly hears potential Republican voters say, "Why should I get off the couch to help that? Dems and Repubs are the same. Guess who cut my military pension? Guess who expanded Medicaid in my state? Guess who yells about raising the debt limit and then does it?:"

Try recruiting friends and relatives into that. I'm not having too much success.

813 So what's the move in chess called where the opponent, let's call him Harry Reid, drops a nuclear bomb on you or takes away the fillbuster or something, and in response this guy named Mitch screams and moans but where the rubber hits the road does nothing? In English, please, not the original French.

814 In terms of tactics, the Tea Party wants to match tactics with the enemy. The Establishment wants to play by the Marquis of Queensberry rules. In terms of principals, the Tea Party wants to die on the hill. In terms of principals, the Establishment is willing to trade principals for a long game. The Tea Party has a problem but the Establishment is just lame. They're more scared of Jon Stewart than their own base. They're going to regret that in November.

815 I've already sent my rant/interrogation off to my closest political contact who has close contact with him. It's a bitter corner to find myself deciding if it's only the threat of maintaining a democrat-controlled Senate, that will be enough to make me hold my nose and vote for Mitch. And here's another problem. Mitch's constituents include the Louisville metro area/Jefferson County; which holds the Only Democratic stronghold in the state, Gov.Beshear's (D) stronghold as well. This urban region would present a serious roadblock to a candidate perceived as conservative. Which is why the rest of the state stayed with MCConell. I hope I'm wrong in this assessment. It's too frustrating.

816 You can always tell who the slugs and cowards are. They won't fight no matter the issue. Just go along and get along-its smart politics. Its the RINO limp wrist way.

817 >>These people want a theocracy. Posted by: Jean Paul at February 14, 2014 12:44 PM (EszTV)<< Sure. That's what we had from 1789 to 1966. A theocracy. Sure it is.

818 Sure. That's what we had from 1789 to 1966. A theocracy. Sure it is. Posted by: Chris_Balsz at February 16, 2014 06:09 PM (sTDy5) Thank you Chris. What began as a plea for tnational tolerance for the left-wingers to have their freedom of expression; evolved into what must be the new orthodoxy for everyone. Now what was our national culture is re-defined as a theocracy.