February 09, 2014

Free Speech Advocates Have Another Way to Push Back in Russia [2nd Amendment Texan]
— Guest Blogger

In the late 1980s the Poles came up with a clever slogan in its struggle against the Soviet-controlled Polish communists: “2+2=4”. It was the concept expressed by George Orwell in his book, Nineteen Eighty-Four, that universal truths such as “2+2=4” are a threat to a state built on deceit, a definition that any client state of communist Russia would meet. It was also a rather cheeky way of protesting the communists without appearing to do so: “2+2=4” is hardly the same as “Kick Out the Russians”. Even in the Soviet bloc, the Polish puppet government found it difficult to conduct a massive round up of citizens displaying placards that purported a basic math equation that any first grader would see as an obvious truth. The Poles beat the enemies of clarity at their own game.

I was reminded of this event during a business trip to Russia last summer, which had just passed an anti-gay law in the name of protecting young children from learning about sexual issues in an age-inappropriate way. Certainly an honest policy discussion could occur on the best way to handle sex education with small children. However, as with much of Russian government action throughout the ages, the “age-appropriate” argument is simply cover for suppressing free speech.

It turns out that what this Russia law does is prohibits speech of any kind related to homosexuality that could be viewed by children of any age. You could be arrested if your travel bag proudly displays your grandfatherÂ’s 42nd Infantry Division patch (itÂ’s a rainbow) or for wearing a Will & Grace T-Shirt. Under this vague law the government can arrest anyone they wish, as there are few things worn in public that cannot be interpreted as a violation of the law.

Years after the Soviet system collapsed, free speech is still a struggle. Russian journalist and vocal Putin critic Anna PolitkovskayaÂ’s murder was soon followed by the death of her ally, Alexander Litvinenko. Having accused the Russian government of PolitkovskayaÂ’s murder he promptly died from Polonium-210 poisoning, the first known instance of an assassination with a personal Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Understandably, both gay and free speech advocates are upset over this law, which adds to signals from the government that it is indifferent to crime if the victim is gay. A Russian official explained to me that a recent attack on a homosexual victim was not a prosecutorial priority, despite the entire crime being captured on video. It seems that intimidating people from peacefully supporting what they think is equal treatment is far more important than putting criminals in jail.

Russia Protest icon.jpg
To combat this terrible situation, I propose a method to protest the Russian law that the government may be hard pressed to retaliate against. Since there is real danger of being arrested in Russia right now for showing any obvious signs or symbols of gay pride, Russian gays, gay supporters, and free speech advocates of every stripe could adopt the “Our army is the army of liberation for all workers in the world” image, a famous WWII Russian Army propaganda postcard. It depicts a Russian red army soldier liberating German-occupied land, with a grateful peasant giving the Russian solider a kiss directly on the mouth. In the spirit of the anti-communist Poles utilizing “2+2=4”, the protesters in this arena could adopt this classic icon – well known in Russia – as their unofficial logo.

What will the Russian government do? Claim that a 75 year old, well loved Russian iconic image is and was always a symbol of gay equality? That the state sponsored communist artist, Victor Koretsky, was being subversive? While we should put nothing past a state that wants to exert power over a minority group, I suspect that utilizing this image will allow protesters to be heard while also allowing the Russian government to save some face and not enforce the law on those displaying the Koretsky image. As seen with its declining to prosecute anti-gay crimes, the Russian government knows how to pick and choose what to prosecute and what to ignore.

— The 2nd Amendment Texan writes and speaks about foreign policy, among other things, and has experience in both the White House and the Pentagon. You can follow him on Twitter: @MichaelJames357

Posted by: Guest Blogger at 05:00 AM | Comments (238)
Post contains 734 words, total size 5 kb.

1 Gay poles! Ha!

Posted by: freaked at February 09, 2014 05:03 AM (JdEZJ)

2 Needless to say, the term "personal weapon of mass destruction" is wrong on so many levels.

Posted by: Immolate at February 09, 2014 05:08 AM (AaHJC)

3 The slogan is "for all workers in the world" Doesn't that leave out a large group of people on it's own, gay or not?

Posted by: freaked at February 09, 2014 05:11 AM (JdEZJ)

4 What will the Russian government do? Claim that a 75 year old, well loved Russian iconic image is and was always a symbol of gay equality? That the state sponsored communist artist, Victor Koretsky, was being subversive? I think the Russian government could/would slide right past this tactic. Brute force coupled with propaganda seems to have the upper hand against the people of Russia, no matter what they try.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 09, 2014 05:12 AM (IXrOn)

5 That poster makes mesohorny.

Posted by: Barack Insane Obama at February 09, 2014 05:14 AM (JdEZJ)

6 What's you damned point??... Looks like Ace hired a developmentally disabled fool and his preoccupation.

Posted by: Mr. Babylon at February 09, 2014 05:14 AM (5Cwv4)

7 Is that Novgorod, or are you just happy to see me, comrade?

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 09, 2014 05:16 AM (ZshNr)

8 How about a poster of the Russian Bear frolicking in a stream with otters?

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 09, 2014 05:17 AM (ZshNr)

9 "A Russian official explained to me that a recent attack on a homosexual victim was not a prosecutorial priority, despite the entire crime being captured on video." Geez, c'mon guys...its not like he was standing outside a voting station with a club.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 05:19 AM (60Vyp)

10 Your mustache tickles my fancy comrade.

Posted by: Barack Insane Obama at February 09, 2014 05:21 AM (JdEZJ)

11 Fuck you, you fag enabling degenerate. The only thing terrible about this situation is that you're stupid enough to side with the sick perverts.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 05:23 AM (LmD/o)

12 While Russia is not our friend, neither are the leftists agitating against Putin's regime. Who cares if leftists are oppressed, they destroy everything they touch, and are proud of it.

Posted by: Golem_Master at February 09, 2014 05:24 AM (/+AWU)

13 With Holder's fiat legalizing gay marriage at the Federal level, Obama pulls ahead of Putin in the race toward the establishment of the Total State and the final destruction of the Civil Society. Go, Bathhouse Barry, go!

Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 09, 2014 05:28 AM (ZG3Fa)

14 "What will the Russian government do? Claim that a 75 year old, well loved Russian iconic image is and was always a symbol of gay equality?" Um, yes. The Soviet regime was a radical leftist government, in case you were unaware. It legalized faggotry, dumbass.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 05:28 AM (LmD/o)

15 This quote was spoken on the pilot episode of Glee by a teenage girl. "I am not homophobic. In fact, I have two gay dads. See, I was born out of love. My two dads screened potential surrogates based on beauty and IQ. Then they mixed their sperm together and used a turkey baster. To this day we don't know which one is my real dad, which I think is pretty amazing." The idea that the whole world should be converted to American decadence with regards to sexual matters is plain evil. I can't see how anyone who is conservative and has watched any network TV in the past 6 years can't support Russia's law.

Posted by: soren at February 09, 2014 05:28 AM (C2TK/)

16 "To this day we don't know which one is my real dad, which I think is pretty amazing." Because DNA testing doesn't work when the streams are crossed?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 05:31 AM (60Vyp)

17 BTW, I'm not holding Russia up as a model of virtue... they're pretty fucked up... but the idea that we should care about their law here is ridiculous.

Posted by: soren at February 09, 2014 05:32 AM (C2TK/)

18 I am a lot more concerned about the rights of average citizens in the US than I am about the state of free speech in Russia.

Google put up an Olympic rainbow and Scott Adams made Asok gay.  Because statement!

Posted by: AE at February 09, 2014 05:32 AM (+ft6G)

19 Not a hill I would die on. I wonder if you would get arrested for watching SOA? Those guys are always hugging and touching each other's butts.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 05:33 AM (NRYdU)

20 It turns out that what this Russia law does is prohibits speech of any kind related to homosexuality that could be viewed by children of any age.



Back when I was a kid (I know) this was a standard everyone followed even though it wasn't a law.  It is only recently (by my standards) that all this talk of homo stuff has become common place. 


And I don't view it as a "good" thing.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 09, 2014 05:33 AM (T2V/1)

21 Russia should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want within their own borders. Putins law is actually widely popular.

Posted by: STV at February 09, 2014 05:34 AM (Cmvf3)

22 I say we convince the US government that 2+2=4 and that it is wrong to jail and threaten people for blasphemy against Islam before we go fucking with the Russians about free speech.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 05:35 AM (P/gm7)

23 So this is where we choose to make a stand? And agree with the JEF?

Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPad at February 09, 2014 05:35 AM (AKxhE)

24 I take it now that Ace supports fags? Is this the moment when our side drops any pretense of "resisting" degeneracy, and proceeds to persecute people for trashing faggot perversion? I just want to know what the powers that be have decided.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 05:35 AM (LmD/o)

25 I think the whole topic of 'gay' is ridiculous. No one cares if you're gay or straight. What you do in your own house and how you conduct your own affairs is your business. Just don't make it your business to force everyone else to accept your lifestyle and carry your burdens when you suffer the consequences of your own decisions and actions.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 05:36 AM (60Vyp)

26 Degeneracy and perversion don't become respectable just because you dress them up in the almighty "speech". I'm not onside for any campaign to make it easier for people to destroy society. Despite the delusions of its advocates, who think that somehow open homosexuality has "arrived", and humanity (in special, selected areas of enlightenment) has somehow evolved into a new, permanent state of benign approval, it's a short-lived interlude before reality comes down and crushes it again. Just like the global warming fad seemed to have permanently established itself as the new, everlasting truth, and today its support is crumbling, and probably in 5 years will survive only in a few, unimportant remnants, so will the happy-clappy "gay" crap subside. The only reason either of them exists is because we think we're a "rich" society that can afford all sorts of frivolous junk food for the soul, and we're getting less rich every day. Its proponents better hope they don't end up worse than they were in the 1950s, because moral reversions can sometimes be extreme.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 05:36 AM (FkH4y)

27 "Um, yes. The Soviet regime was a radical leftist government, in case you were unaware. It legalized faggotry, dumbass." Um, no. "In 1933, Joseph Stalin added Article 121 to the entire Soviet Union criminal code, which made male homosexuality a crime punishable by up to five years in prison with hard labor."

Posted by: Knemon at February 09, 2014 05:37 AM (JlNQG)

28 While I think Russia's law is too harsh, I know the gay mafia (note: just the mafia types, not all gays) would do the same here to people like me who believe it is immoral behavior if they could. Didn't a pastor in Canada get in trouble with the law for teaching what the bible says about homosexuality? So forgive me if I don't lose too much sleep over this. There are so many injustices going on all over the world. As a limited human being I don't choose to focus in this one.

Posted by: Chique at February 09, 2014 05:38 AM (r+7wo)

29 Some of the comments...wow I like the suggestion. Make Putin and his ilk uncomfortable

Posted by: In Exile at February 09, 2014 05:40 AM (570Kl)

30 >>I say we convince the US government that 2+2=4 and that it is wrong to jail and threaten people for blasphemy against Islam before we go fucking with the Russians about free speech.


THIS. Is it wrong that I'm just so tired of the gay rights talk all the time?
So.tired.of.this.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 09, 2014 05:40 AM (POpqt)

31 25  Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 09:36 AM (FkH4y)



AGW is vastly different from the gay propaganda.  AGW will never go away as long as we have communist politicians who are using it as an excuse to advance tax increases and government control of industry and citizens.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 09, 2014 05:41 AM (T2V/1)

32 I said 'class struggle,' not 'ass struggle!'

Posted by: Karl 'Trixie' Marx at February 09, 2014 05:41 AM (MMC8r)

33

Ah, finally The Hill To Die On.

Was wondering when we'd get here.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 05:42 AM (kdS6q)

34 two things: "Russian journalist and vocal Putin critic Anna PolitkovskayaÂ’s murder was soon followed by the death of her ally, Alexander Litvinenko." AHEMB R E I T B A R TAHEM ! ! ! and... "they want rights, i'll give 'em rights...10% off on vaseline now GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE CLOSET!!!" -andrew dice clay

Posted by: sound awake at February 09, 2014 05:45 AM (240aX)

35 Certain People's Attorney General Eric Holder has taken it upon himself to write gays into federal law, what can we use to protest that?

Posted by: --- at February 09, 2014 05:45 AM (MMC8r)

36 30>> " AGW will never go away as long as we have communist politicians who are using it as an excuse to advance tax increases and government control of industry and citizens." AGW will never go away as long as we have POLITICIANS who are using it as an excuse to advance tax increases and government control of industry and citizens. FIFY

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 05:46 AM (60Vyp)

37 Lenin legalized faggotry back in 1917. So even though Stalin belatedly outlawed it, there were still a lot of cultural people who thought fags were okay. It was like here in the U.S. where Hollywood would insert covert pro-fag propaganda in order to prep the masses into accepting faggotry later.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 05:46 AM (LmD/o)

38 yes that's it...a free speech issue in Russia is what we should be worried about... leave that to the gay-stappo... I think we have plenty to worry about here in the good ole U S of A

Posted by: E.T. at February 09, 2014 05:46 AM (uGlk8)

39 A little early for trolls, isn't it?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 05:48 AM (60Vyp)

40 Tough crowd.

Posted by: Knemon at February 09, 2014 05:48 AM (JlNQG)

41 Umm...let's see....out of control federal spending and debt, unfinished wars to the left and right of the globe, soaring unemployment at home, corrupt politicians in both parties, NSA spying on PRIVATE citizens, and oh yea gay rights in Russia. Really?

Posted by: IrishEd at February 09, 2014 05:48 AM (bfm04)

42 Leftists demand free speech in Russia.
Leftists seize power.
Leftists demand that those who disagree with them are jailed.

This is literally what will happen. This is what is happening in the US and Canada and the EU. Why are we so upset that the Russians aren't as stupid as we are?

Posted by: Golem_Master at February 09, 2014 05:48 AM (/+AWU)

43 A little early for trolls, isn't it? Some people wake up with the urge to be...edgy.

Posted by: --- at February 09, 2014 05:50 AM (MMC8r)

44 Maybe Russia has seen the the way the West is going trying to normalize homosexuality, and pushing it on children, and wants to avoid it. But the only way they know to enforce laws is to be brutal, which isn't good. Perhaps they actually want to protect their children. If I had kids, I wouldn't want engine pushing any kind of sexuality on them. I suspect that the law is in response to the actions of the West. And there are so many abuses in Russia, I'm not sure why we must fixate on this particular one. Just my 2 c.

Posted by: Chique at February 09, 2014 05:50 AM (r+7wo)

45
So, is the Mohamed film maker who Obama had jailed still in the pokey, or did he get out?

"Cause if we're oh so worried about freedom of speech, perhaps starting a little closer to home?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 05:53 AM (kdS6q)

46 Gays are still treated far worse in the Middle East. The media's ignoring that, but Russia's the latest outrage.

Posted by: --- at February 09, 2014 05:53 AM (MMC8r)

47 First they came for the gay rights to free speech and I did nothing. I can live with that and that's their fault. Other issues in Russia are far more important to concentrate on.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2014 05:53 AM (f4Je0)

48 I'm not sure using epithets is helping your case, Realist.

Posted by: Chique at February 09, 2014 05:53 AM (r+7wo)

49 Next, Russians who claim to be gay will get political refugee status and move to the US en masse.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 09, 2014 05:54 AM (ZshNr)

50 Sorry, but I am more concerned with the eroding freedoms and privacies here in the US. Devaluation of currency, weakening our military, disregarding and actively subverting our Constitution....these are real concerns.

Why gay anything has been determined as the hill to die on is beyond me.

Posted by: Cranky J. Anne at February 09, 2014 05:54 AM (DAZSc)

51 31 I said 'class struggle,' not 'ass struggle!' Posted by: Karl 'Trixie' Marx at February 09, 2014 09:41 AM (MMC8r) Hahahahah!

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 05:54 AM (NRYdU)

52 Ivan the Terrible's lesser known nephew, Ivan the Persnickety, is rolling over in his grave!

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 09, 2014 05:56 AM (ZshNr)

53 Every single poll shows the vast majority of Russians support Putin. The people who oppose Putin in Russia are roughly as popular as the American Communist Party in 1952.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 05:56 AM (LmD/o)

54 How can the justice department not only refuse to enforce DOMA but make declaration of action that is in violation of the DOMA?

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2014 05:56 AM (Xfofp)

55 #44 I think he's free but that his scapegoating was met with such silence by Whoreyweird and the MFM speaks copious amounts of their tolerance of tyranny.

Posted by: Captain Hate on an iPad at February 09, 2014 05:57 AM (AKxhE)

56 quick ... this post, wish it into the cornfield.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C34g5mz1ZQ

Posted by: E.T. at February 09, 2014 05:57 AM (uGlk8)

57 >>So, is the Mohamed film maker who Obama had jailed still in the pokey, or did he get out?


*AHEM*
Not just Mohammed filmmakers being harassed by our government.

Posted by: Dinesh D'Souza & Tea Party Groups at February 09, 2014 05:57 AM (POpqt)

58 27 While I think Russia's law is too harsh, I know the gay mafia (note: just the mafia types, not all gays) would do the same here to people like me who believe it is immoral behavior if they could. Didn't a pastor in Canada get in trouble with the law for teaching what the bible says about homosexuality? So forgive me if I don't lose too much sleep over this. There are so many injustices going on all over the world. As a limited human being I don't choose to focus in this one. ======= Exactly. The gay leftists in this country have had more than enough opportunities to defend free speech. Instead, they railed for revoking the tax exempt status of the Mormon church for daring to express their theological position on homosexual behavior.

Posted by: RoyalOil at February 09, 2014 05:58 AM (VjL9S)

59 Note the date on the poster -- 1939. It's commemorating the "liberation" of Eastern Poland (Western Belarus) when the Soviets were cooperating with the Nazis.

Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at February 09, 2014 05:58 AM (9N6OT)

60 "How can the justice department not only refuse to enforce DOMA but make declaration of action that is in violation of the DOMA?" Because I won.

Posted by: King Barakahaten I, The Affurmatif Axshun Preznit (PBUH) at February 09, 2014 05:58 AM (60Vyp)

61 How can the justice department not only refuse to enforce DOMA but make declaration of action that is in violation of the DOMA? -------------------- Why, it is almost as if a totalitarian soft coup as taken place..., or something.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 09, 2014 05:58 AM (aDwsi)

62 "53 How can the justice department not only refuse to enforce DOMA but make declaration of action that is in violation of the DOMA?" Until Section 3 of the Act was ruled unconstitutional in 2013...

Posted by: sound awake at February 09, 2014 05:59 AM (240aX)

63 Why, it is almost as if a totalitarian soft coup has taken place..., or something. Posted by: Mike

Posted by: Mike Hammer at February 09, 2014 05:59 AM (aDwsi)

64
Next, Russians who claim to be gay will get political refugee status and move to the US en masse.
Posted by: Lincolntf




Already done by the EU and Canada.  Imagine His Nibs will get around to ExOring it here eventually.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 05:59 AM (kdS6q)

65 Because teh ghey is the new black.

Posted by: RolandTHTG at February 09, 2014 06:01 AM (qyoyx)

66 I thought we were all pretty well on the same page of thinking government (any government) should be focused on protecting individual rights and otherwise needs to leave people the fuck alone.

Posted by: BornLib at February 09, 2014 06:01 AM (zpNwC)

67 "Scott Adams made Asok gay..." What? I quit reading comic strips a while back, but Asok is the weird little guy that's like the fellow everybody abuses and looks down on, right? Is Adams anti-homo or striving for realism? (I denounce myself for that last, of course.)

Posted by: mindful webworker at February 09, 2014 06:01 AM (sY62r)

68 Posted by: sound awake at February 09, 2014 09:59 AM (240aX) That snuck in under my gay radar.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (Xfofp)

69 58 Note the date on the poster -- 1939. It's commemorating the "liberation" of Eastern Poland (Western Belarus) when the Soviets were cooperating with the Nazis. Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at February 09, 2014 09:58 AM (9N6OT) That could be a problem.

Posted by: BornLib at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (zpNwC)

70 AGW is vastly different from the gay propaganda. AGW will never go away as long as we have communist politicians who are using it as an excuse to advance tax increases and government control of industry and citizens. Posted by: Vic at February 09, 2014 09:41 AM (T2V/1) And, money laundering $billions into "certain" pockets (of power). Even if the company they own or board-sit on go bankrupt.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (IXrOn)

71 58>> I was told there would be no math or history in this discussion. Why must someone always point out the fallacies in the narrative?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (60Vyp)

72
Note the date on the poster -- 1939. It's commemorating the "liberation" of Eastern Poland (Western Belarus) when the Soviets were cooperating with the Nazis.
Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood





Oh, quel dommage.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (kdS6q)

73 65 I thought we were all pretty well on the same page of thinking government (any government) should be focused on protecting individual rights and otherwise needs to leave people the fuck alone. you mean like the unborn and gunowners?

Posted by: sound awake at February 09, 2014 06:03 AM (240aX)

74  
   It's irrelevant to me what sexual inclinations other people express.   Not at all my business.


    I simply wish gays would celebrate their homosexuality as I celebrate my heterosexuality.

    QUIETLY and with no fanfare.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 09, 2014 06:04 AM (SAMxH)

75 68 58 Note the date on the poster -- 1939. It's commemorating the "liberation" of Eastern Poland (Western Belarus) when the Soviets were cooperating with the Nazis. Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at February 09, 2014 09:58 AM (9N6OT) That could be a problem. Posted by: BornLib at February 09, 2014 10:03 AM (zpNwC) That and the dead of Katyn.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 06:05 AM (NRYdU)

76 73 It's irrelevant to me what sexual inclinations other people express. Not at all my business. I simply wish gays would celebrate their homosexuality as I celebrate my heterosexuality. QUIETLY and with no fanfare. EXACTLY!!!

Posted by: sound awake at February 09, 2014 06:06 AM (240aX)

77 I saw Legalized Faggotry open for Anal Tap back in '69.

Posted by: dude what's seen a bunch of bands and stuff at February 09, 2014 06:06 AM (N+Fis)

78 Gays are still treated far worse in the Middle East. The media's ignoring that, but Russia's the latest outrage. Posted by: --- at February 09, 2014 09:53 AM (MMC8r) Good point. The images of the hangings are horrible.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 09, 2014 06:06 AM (IXrOn)

79


2 + 2 =/= 4

Sounds like Common Core

Orwell's works were cautionary tales, not instruction manuals

Posted by: phreshone at February 09, 2014 06:07 AM (Q6pxP)

80 How about free speech here?

Man + woman = family.

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2014 06:07 AM (30eLQ)

81 Barry and Hillary made a PSA to run in Pakistan and the ME apologizing for the 1st Amendment and Americans exercise of it.

Our problem is POTUS not Putin.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 06:08 AM (P/gm7)

82 Perhaps I missed the similar outrage when Putin was assassinating those people.

Posted by: Chique at February 09, 2014 06:08 AM (r+7wo)

83 Good morning horde. So I'm hearing on ABC that Russian police have killed 5 suspected terrorists... Is this new?

Posted by: shredded chi - cereal killer at February 09, 2014 06:08 AM (fAlyB)

84 Yes, this is the big problem the West is facing--not advocating for homosexuality enough.  It's second-biggest problem? Not interfering enough in other countries' business when it comes to our perceptions of moral right-and-wrong.  P.S. Please get the f^%k out of Texas.

Posted by: Links at February 09, 2014 06:09 AM (169t4)

85

There are no terrorists, only Buuuuuush

Posted by: MSM at February 09, 2014 06:09 AM (Q6pxP)

86 Here's the problem: fag propaganda both here and Russia constantly falls back on non-existent "rights" being violated. Even though its a lie, they just keep repeating the lie until the duped masses, who do not understand the sophisticated concept of rights, accept it. So what to do? You either let fag enablers lie and deceive the people, or you outlaw fag propaganda.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 06:10 AM (LmD/o)

87 I don't want gays to have any rights in Russia. Not in the Muslim world either. I want the left to see exactly what happens to minorities when their vision of totalitarianism is achieved. And I want it to be painful.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 09, 2014 06:10 AM (g1DWB)

88 Yeah let's get real upset about gay's and hide it under free speech. They don't give a damn about free speech and it is self evident by their advocacy for hate crimes.

I left Gay Air (Hot Air) because of how gay AllahPundit had become, dont do it Ace. Don't do it.

Posted by: AceLikesBoys at February 09, 2014 06:11 AM (Ar+c7)

89 Funny, but I was thinking back when I first saw that big ass statute near Budapest labeled "gift to the Hungarian people from the Commies." I never thought of the commies as liberators. The Hungarians were on the side of the axis. All the people who had needed liberating were already turned into ashes. Sure, there may have been a few hidden Jews but I would assume like the women & girl prisoners of Birkenau, they were liberated and raped and those who resisted were murdered.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 06:11 AM (NRYdU)

90 Reverend Badstache in Gainesville is being harassed by authorities to this day because he threatened to burn a Koran.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 06:13 AM (P/gm7)

91 No Realist, we shouldn't restrict the First Amendment because people you don't like are currently winning the argument.  Also, knock off the Westboro Baptist shit, I'm starting to think you're either a moby, a troll, or completely indifferent to how the public views us.  Either way your words are a liability to our cause.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 06:15 AM (qJPSp)

92 "free speech advocates are upset over this law" WTF? You understand Russia isn't under our constitution, right? Our first Amendment doesn't apply. Ans whether or not you think John Locke was a genius (I don't, quite the opposite) regardless, his ramblings aren't international law. Or is eventual war with Russia the new Neo-con angle? Why? What did they do to Israel?

Posted by: Links at February 09, 2014 06:15 AM (169t4)

93 Reverend Badstache in Gainesville is being harassed by authorities to this day because he threatened to burn a Koran.

He should have used it to spank some other naked dude. The Feds wouldn't touch him then

Posted by: boulder toilet hobo at February 09, 2014 06:15 AM (30eLQ)

94 I agree with the do what you want, but don't try to make me like it crowd. My thoughts are: It's not normal. It serves no biological purpose. It does not contribute to society. Are you looking at my ass?

Posted by: RolandTHTG at February 09, 2014 06:16 AM (qyoyx)

95 Reagan said, Gorbachev tear down this wall. The cheezy poof prezzy says, Putin, let them suck dicks!

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 06:17 AM (G1XMn)

96 We like free speech, too!
Especially the freedom of association and free exercise of religion parts of the 1st Amendment.

Posted by: Chick-fil-A ,Hobby Lobby and Boy Scouts at February 09, 2014 06:21 AM (POpqt)

97
The depressing thing to me in any talk of Russia now is the fact that, not that long ago, Russia had been on a path toward democracy and cooperation. 


Who knew that hope and change and resetting our relationship with Russia could be so awesome?

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 09, 2014 06:22 AM (BZAd3)

98 "To this day we don't know which one is my real dad, which I think is pretty amazing."


Because not knowing is the best way to be. Truth sucks.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 06:22 AM (KQp38)

99 Hmmm...not sure I understand why you're so concerned about free speech and gay rights in a foreign country.

Posted by: Titanium at February 09, 2014 06:23 AM (IgOQg)

100 Must be some type of gay dog whistle in that poster, 'cause I don't see a sexual kiss there. I'm not sure how you get a pro-gay message out of an emotional spontaneous expression of human love for one's liberators. Here's the math I see: "Thanks for freeing me from the German oppressors" [is not equal to] "I want to have gay sex with you, comrade" (I'm disregarding the original propaganda purpose of the image)

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at February 09, 2014 06:25 AM (g4TxM)

101 The Russians may be watching what is happening in the rest of the world. This is what is known as 'blowback'. They are watching gay activists go to court and and have state CONSITUTIONAL amendments duly passed by the people of a state overturned. They see the gay lobby invading schools and recruiting kids (because, as it turns out, a lot of people aren't born gay but persuaded that way - Anne Heche anyone?), and activist judges back-dooring in gay 'marriage' (no pun intended). They see gays controlling agendas and media and propagandizing in television (how many shows feature gay characters, far out of proportion to the population). Even a kids show on Disney channel called 'Good Luck Charlie' had to introduce the lesbian 'mothes' with a child - in the 2nd to last episode of the entire series. Why do it then? I think it's obvious. They recognize that gays no longer want toleration and just to be left alone in their private lives, but instead want everyone to condone with their lifestyle choice or SHUT UP. Remember, if you say 'I don't agree with homosexuality' or 'marriage is between a man and a woman', you are no longer expressing your free speech: You are anti-gay and engaging in what will soon be a hate crime. In NC, I think most people were ok with Civil Unions, but the gay lobby wanted more than that so they got blowback in the form a Constitutional Amendment that recognizes ONLY marriage as a man and a woman, with no room for civil unions. Don't ever think Russians are stupid or ignorant. Frankly, I wish Putin was out President. Corrupt as he may be, at least he is proud to be Russian and actually likes his people and wants to see Russia's prestige increased not diminished. It goes without saying (but I have to say it anyway) that this is not true of every single gay, just like 'blacks lie Obama' is not true of every single black.

Posted by: Eff'in A at February 09, 2014 06:29 AM (ajjwb)

102 Though, honestly, if you are wearing a Will and Grace shirt, you should probably go to jail.

Posted by: blaster at February 09, 2014 06:29 AM (4+AaH)

103 I dunno, that one guy has a flowery shirt.

Posted by: RolandTHTG at February 09, 2014 06:29 AM (qyoyx)

104
Hmmm...not sure I understand why you're so concerned about free speech and gay rights in a foreign country.
Posted by: Titanium




Well, not all countries.  You'll notice he's not posting an image of, say, two Mullahs kissing.

Because a potential fine in Russia is apparently more of an outrageous outrage than having a wall of cinder-blocks bulldozed on top of you in Iran.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 06:30 AM (kdS6q)

105 Don't really have a dog in the fight, but I approve of gay marrage because then gays can go through family courts to get divorced.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 09, 2014 06:30 AM (u82oZ)

106 Tchaikovsky wrote show tunes.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 09, 2014 06:31 AM (ZshNr)

107 "No Realist, we shouldn't restrict the First Amendment because people you don't like are currently winning the argument. Also, knock off the Westboro Baptist shit, I'm starting to think you're either a moby, a troll, or completely indifferent to how the public views us. Either way your words are a liability to our cause." Spoken like a true leftist. Defending free speech while demanding others refrain from exercising it.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 06:32 AM (LmD/o)

108 I find it interesting that Chevrolet has a new commercial now extolling the "new families" here in America. One scene has 2 dads and another has 2 moms. Quite precious really.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 06:33 AM (dV2/5)

109 "Russian gays, gay supporters, and free speech advocates of every stripe " Why should I go to bat for the gay community, when it is this same community that will call me every name in the book when I say 'no gay marriage'? Why should I go to bat for the gay community, when they are closely aligned, and many times the same people, who would like nothing better than to shutdown conservative free speech? Oh, I'm sure it's the 'right thing to do', and if they come for the gays, then they'll come for us. I'm not stupid, because these same people will continue to try to shut us down. I'm not helping my enemies. The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy.

Posted by: Eff'in A at February 09, 2014 06:33 AM (ajjwb)

110 Even a kids show on Disney channel... **** Gay imagery on Disney? Hell, Mickey Mouse has been f*ckin' goofy for years.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at February 09, 2014 06:36 AM (g4TxM)

111 Maybe gays and pro choice are a path to ZPG and returning the earf to the fuzzy animals. Also, stop global warming. Is the Russian bear related to Pedo?

Posted by: RolandTHTG at February 09, 2014 06:36 AM (qyoyx)

112 90 No Realist, we shouldn't restrict the First Amendment because people you don't like are currently winning the argument. Also, knock off the Westboro Baptist shit, I'm starting to think you're either a moby, a troll, or completely indifferent to how the public views us. Either way your words are a liability to our cause. Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 10:15 AM (qJPSp) This is exactly what I'm talking about. Hell it isn't about 'if they come for them, they'll come for us'. THEY have already come for us, and THEY are the gays - the very people you want us to help. Are you crazy? Why would I load the gun for my killer?

Posted by: Eff'in A at February 09, 2014 06:36 AM (ajjwb)

113 Flipping thru the hometown rag that went online a few years ago and read this: "The fire that destroyed the home of a ___ man indicated on 40-felony sex charges [some involving children] has been ruled arson by the State Fire MarshalÂ’s Office." I find myself humming Bruce Spingstien's, "In my hometown"

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at February 09, 2014 06:37 AM (+Wf5l)

114 94...Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 10:17 Good grief...you hit it right in the bulls eye.

Posted by: Beto at February 09, 2014 06:38 AM (MhA4j)

115
Why should I go to bat for the gay community, when they are closely aligned, and many times the same people, who would like nothing better than to shutdown conservative free speech?
Posted by: Eff




The Op's argument is something you typically see written on poster board in green felt-tip marker next to a sign-up table during Freshman Orientation Week.


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 06:39 AM (kdS6q)

116 107>> As opposed to your circular argument in 85? Your screed is wearing thin sir, and I use that pronoun in the most general sense.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 06:39 AM (60Vyp)

117 Book thread (and open thread) up.

Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 09, 2014 06:40 AM (bCEmE)

118 >>Tchaikovsky wrote show tunes. He was also gay. Gives a whole new meaning to The Nutcracker.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 09, 2014 06:40 AM (g1DWB)

119 Quite precious really. Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 10:33 AM

Just exactly what is so precious about forcing a kid to live in a house where the "adult" residents spew shit all over the furniture with their sexual indulgences?

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 06:41 AM (KQp38)

120 119 Try a little sarcasm with your blood pressure pills there Sparky. Wow.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 06:43 AM (dV2/5)

121 We have vast bureaucracies aimed directly at large elements of our society with the sole purpose of stifling speech. The speech of far greater numbers of people than those who are attracted to the same sex. It's fucking official in the good ol' US of A. Why should I care about free speech in Russia as it affects a tiny minority? Frankly, Russia has way bigger free speech problems than gay speech and always has, and their population is pretty much ok with it. Hell, Russia has much bigger problems than Free Speech. "Certainly an honest policy discussion could occur on the best way to handle sex education with small children." Really?? We can't even get an honest policy discussion over here about that, and I'm supposed to believe an honest policy discussion is going to happen in Russia?? Seriously, you posted this because you want it read and are trying to convince someone of your point. So, in light of what I pointed out, get to persuading because your first effort here failed miserably.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2014 06:43 AM (0jFxY)

122 90 No Realist, we shouldn't restrict the First Amendment because people you don't like are currently winning the argument. Also, knock off the Westboro Baptist shit, I'm starting to think you're either a moby, a troll, or completely indifferent to how the public views us. Either way your words are a liability to our cause. Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 10:15 AM (qJPSp) So the 90% voting thumb's down on this particular post are ALL trolls now? Next you'll be demanding we dismiss the people and elect a new one.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 06:44 AM (FkH4y)

123 Why do we care about free speech and gay rights in Russia?

Posted by: Seems legit at February 09, 2014 06:44 AM (A98Xu)

124 I don't agree with Putin's suppression, but I also don't think kids should be exposed to "free speech" stuff like this:
*San Francisco Folsom Street fair: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2mk894
*San Francisco "Easter Service" http://preview.tinyurl.com/q32y4rp
[note: both very NSFW]

Guess I'm just a prude that way.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 09, 2014 06:44 AM (POpqt)

125 Try a little sarcasm with your blood pressure pills there Sparky. Wow. Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 10:43 AM

heh

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 06:44 AM (KQp38)

126 LC, are we cool now?

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 06:47 AM (dV2/5)

127 Here you can't even say that as a man you prefer a vagina to an asshole without the gay mafia losing their shit.

Posted by: Seems legit at February 09, 2014 06:47 AM (A98Xu)

128 Gayx know deep down that what they do is not normal. Thats why the want society to "normalize" them, so they can feel good about themselves.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 06:49 AM (G1XMn)

129 LC, are we cool now?

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 10:47 AM


We were cool when you put new families in quotes.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 06:50 AM (KQp38)

130 We had a kid on one of my Louisville teams that was a gay. When it came up in a game planning meeting, my linebackers coach said to me, "Coach, let's move him to tight end!" and the room broke up in laughter.

I wasn't sure why that was funny. The kid was a defensive tackle. Why would I move him to offense? Hell he couldn't catch clap in a whorehouse. Part wise because he wouldn't frequent one, but also cause he had small girlish hands.

Posted by: Head Football Coach Howard Schnellenberger at February 09, 2014 06:55 AM (T+Zre)

131

   Again, celebrate the homosexuality to your heart's content--just DO IT QUIETLY.

Posted by: irongrampa at February 09, 2014 06:58 AM (SAMxH)

132 Happy Sunday folks.

I have reread my second guest piece here and am unsure where I have ever asserted this is a hill to die on, or how this affects the United States directly.

Its focus is on how Russians could - if they wanted to - protest the an anti speech law. It is a free speech piece, and while I could have written a 5,000 word world survey on the issue this is a much smaller post.

Seeing that the Olympics coverage is constantly talking about this issue I thought I would offer an idea up to those Russians most affected by this law.

Posted by: 2nd Amendment Texan at February 09, 2014 07:00 AM (0TAJR)

133 "
Seeing that the Olympics coverage is constantly talking about this issue I thought I would offer an idea up to those Russians most affected by this law. "

We got a lot of them reading this blog...?

Posted by: Head Football Coach Howard Schnellenberger at February 09, 2014 07:04 AM (T+Zre)

134 Seeing that the Olympics coverage is constantly talking about this issue I thought I would offer an idea up to those Russians most affected by this law. Posted by: 2nd Amendment Texan at February 09, 2014 11:00 AM (0TAJR) Nothing personal, but I think most people here are sick of hearing about the ghey shit.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 07:05 AM (NRYdU)

135 I dont necessarily disagree with the Russian law. Between the Russian law and what gay mafia is doing here, I'll side with Putin on this.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 07:05 AM (G1XMn)

136 >>> I thought I would offer an idea up to those Russians most affected by this law.<<<

Any ideas on how to stop the erosion of free speech in the US?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 07:08 AM (P/gm7)

137 F. Paul Wilson lamented on Twitter that the Feminazi/PC crowd was going after Stephen King for an intemperate comment about Dylan Farrow. I replied I couldn't care less about Mr. King's troubles so long as he doesn't support MY basic civil rights (IE, 2nd Amendment). I could give even less of a crap about Putin. There's plenty of crap wrong with our own house to spend time griping about the neighbor's mismatched paint job.

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at February 09, 2014 07:11 AM (KvKOu)

138 Any ideas on how we protect our children from being exposed to deviant lifestyles in kindergarten? Or are you ok with that?

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 07:11 AM (G1XMn)

139 @94 I was going to stay out of this, but that was profound as hell.

Posted by: Smaulz at February 09, 2014 07:13 AM (AbcTu)

140 Any ideas on how to stop the erosion of free speech in the US?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 11:08 AM

If you want to stop erosion, first thing is to admit that free speech isn't free and actually comes with a price.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 07:15 AM (KQp38)

141 Sorry, gotta side with the Russkies on this one. Give the chimp and the gorilla another banana please.

Posted by: Common Man at February 09, 2014 07:15 AM (RTs7Y)

142 Any ideas on how to stop the erosion of free speech in the US?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 11:08 AM (P/gm7)

A good starting place would be to not help it along.  I understand that there are, let's be polite and say "disagreements," with some elements of the gay community. 

Do some of them take it too far, to the point where they are violating the rights of others?  Yes.  However, "shutting down f*g propaganda" is just eroding free speech from a different direction.  I know that Frederich Nietzche isn't very popular in these parts, but he had a point when he warned everyone to "beware he who fights monsters."There is a fine line between disagreeing with the gay lifestyle, and being consumed with irrational hatred for people most of us have essentially no interaction with. 

Liberty and Reason are inseparable, and once you sacrifice one out of frustration with the current direction of public opinion, you ultimately sacrifice the other.  When you are siding with a Russian Despot cracking down on a minority scapegoat out of sheer hatred, (and yes, that is what calling gays "fags" and supporting the violation of their basic rights is) you have abandoned Reason and will soon take up arms against Liberty.  Do not speak of values when you are so quick to abandon the most quintessential of American values in a fit of passion.  Emotionalism is dangerous to Freedom.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:21 AM (qJPSp)

143 Since when did conservatives and pro-Constitutionalists start advocating on behalf of one of Obama's favorite pet Alinsky projects - the LGBT agenda? And in a foreign country, no less? It's bad enough that "the first gay president" and his Praetorian Guard in the media and Hollywood are relentlessly shoving this down our collective throats - particularly since his re-election. So now we too, also need to start meddling with one of his handpicked Marxist strategies as well? WTF? Stay the hell out of it and let Obama and his henchmen fight their own "destruction of civil society" battles.

Posted by: Leave Us The Hell Alone at February 09, 2014 07:24 AM (/JWgM)

144 Don't have a dog in the fight.   

Based on the US experience, I think unrestricted homosexuality will spread and taint the society until it becomes a Sodom or Gomorrah.   And for S&G, God decided he had to nuke it from orbit and salt the ground.   

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at February 09, 2014 07:26 AM (AjiwO)

145 Since when did conservatives and pro-Constitutionalists start promoting crackdowns of speech by Dictators in all but name.  We can not disparage Stalin for such behavior, then turn around and praise Putin for the same.  That is how one loses their credibility and their very selves.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:29 AM (qJPSp)

146 >>>>>When you are siding with a Russian Despot cracking down on a minority scapegoat out of sheer hatred, (and yes, that is what calling gays "fags" and supporting the violation of their basic rights is) you have abandoned Reason and will soon take up arms against Liberty.<<<<<

WTF are you talking about? Where did I do any of this? I said free speech is under assault here at home and until we deal with that we don't have any business fucking with the Russians about it.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 07:32 AM (P/gm7)

147 who is this idiot who wrote the post? "It turns out that what this Russia law does is prohibits speech of any kind related to homosexuality that could be viewed by children of any age" exactly, if there is no minor in sight you can still tongue fuck your boyfriend in public. The key word is 'in front of minors'. As a matter of fact in Russia's big cities there were 'gay' clubs. Homo behaviour is still practiced as it should BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. "Russian journalist and vocal Putin critic Anna PolitkovskayaÂ’s murder was soon followed by the death of her ally, Alexander Litvinenko. " they were both in the tank of the muslim chechens. How can you be in the tank for muslim chechens after Beslan? "A Russian official explained to me that a recent attack on a homosexual victim was not a prosecutorial priority, despite the entire crime being captured on video." This prominent gay activist will retain his state pension after being caught with child pornography (San FranciscoÂ’s Gay Icon Larry Brinkin Guilty of Felony Child Porn Possession). I do not think they would have granted the same luxury to a heterosexual. See? sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. Russia is helping balancing the score. "Since there is real danger of being arrested in Russia right now for showing any obvious signs or symbols of gay pride" we are an inch from being criminalized for showing traditional family pride. And stop your crap, in Russia you are FINED, not jailed. I wonder how long before a pregnant mother that hopes her son/daughter is heterosexual is criminalized and shunned from the community. This is where it will end. We should have a psychiatric evaluation of the heteros (especially when they are pseudo-conservative) that are so in the tank for ghey fabricated rights. I suggest you to see a specialist that can resolve the Samaritan syndrome in you. The gheys have managed to convince everybody that they are so weak and always victims, so that some idiot as this OP runs to them like they are damsel in distress only to feel good about himself. WAKE UP, those people are treating like the useful idiot you are.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 07:33 AM (rnV3B)

148 137 F. Paul Wilson lamented on Twitter that the Feminazi/PC crowd was going after Stephen King for an intemperate comment about Dylan Farrow. I replied I couldn't care less about Mr. King's troubles so long as he doesn't support MY basic civil rights (IE, 2nd Amendment). I could give even less of a crap about Putin. There's plenty of crap wrong with our own house to spend time griping about the neighbor's mismatched paint job. Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at February 09, 2014 11:11 AM (KvKOu) He apologized but I agree with him. This is what he said: Boy, I'm stumped on that one. I don't like to think it's true, and there's an element of palpable bitchery there, but... Dylan is no longer a kid. She's pushing 30. I wasn't there; there was no criminal trial; and I don't know her. But that I and others are going to be beaten over the head with a club until we side with her is bullshit.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 07:34 AM (NRYdU)

149 145 There's a difference between "I'm gay deal with it" and "I'm gay, now I will indoctrinate your pre-teen CHILDREN as to why they should be also". F#&% THAT!

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 07:34 AM (dV2/5)

150 >>>If you want to stop erosion, first thing is to admit that free speech isn't free and actually comes with a price.<<<<

I'm pretty much a 1st Amendment absolutist, barring libel and slander.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 07:34 AM (P/gm7)

151 Gays are destroying America. Russia is actually doing something about their attempts to destroy Russia too, and now conservatives are going to be giving advice on how gays can undertake their destruction of the traditional Russian family? This is pseudoconservatism, and it's the same stuff we see when conservatives go all gaga for interracial marriage, as if that its some great boon to society and not, in fact, an aberration and meant to destroy the pride and ultimately the existence of the European majority.

Posted by: Roach at February 09, 2014 07:37 AM (GQc2P)

152 I wondered where the last person to care about interracial marriage was. Now I know.

Posted by: jic at February 09, 2014 07:39 AM (rzJlU)

153 "and yes, that is what calling gays "fags" and supporting the violation of their basic rights is" Why can they publicly call us 'breeders' and (by Dan Savage) equate the vagina to canned meat I will proudly call them faggots. No heterosexual would work again after saying something like this about a woman. Why are you in favour of discrimination against heterosexuals? STOP THE HETEROPHOBIA!

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 07:39 AM (rnV3B)

154 Posted by: Roach at February 09, 2014 11:37 AM (GQc2P) Oh, you must be the stormfronter people were talking about.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 07:40 AM (NRYdU)

155 Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 11:32 AM (P/gm7)


That wasn't really directed at you per se.  It was mostly for those upthread who have entertained the notion that such laws as those recently passed in Russia would be a good idea here.  Can we agree that some people are a little too zealous in their opposition to the gay agenda?

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:40 AM (qJPSp)

156 See, this is the agenda of the gays. Its on full display here; to "teach" me why im wrong about something that I personally believe is immoral. Well, I dont need an education on this matter, neither do my kids.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 07:40 AM (G1XMn)

157 If this was 1954 and people were arrested here for spreading fag propaganda to children, you would have had zero problem with arresting them for gross indecency. The only thing different between now and 1954 is that the powers that be have brainwashed into thinking its okay to be a fag. I don't hate fags. At the same time, I refuse to give their degeneracy the legitimacy it craves by using their approved language. If fags could justify their lifestyle they wouldn't be bothered by whatever name they are called.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 07:41 AM (LmD/o)

158 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 11:39 AM (rnV3B)

Just because some of them act like children doesn't mean we need to lower ourselves to their level.  Besides, do you know how most people react to those "breeder" comments?  Even most gays and lesbians roll their eyes and consider it nonsense.  Do you really want to isolate yourself from society, even those nominally allied to you?  That strikes me as counterproductive.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:42 AM (qJPSp)

159 So what is this "gay agenda" exactly? I'm kinda slow on the uptake so type slowly.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 07:43 AM (dV2/5)

160 Seriously, if the left calls us Nazis, fascists, rednecks, dumb hicks, whatever, it shouldn't matter to us. Same thing with fags.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 07:43 AM (LmD/o)

161 I'm pretty much a 1st Amendment absolutist, barring libel and slander.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 11:34 AM

So, basically what you're saying is that 2+2=5 is alright in your book and amounts to nothing.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 07:44 AM (KQp38)

162 How can the justice department not only refuse to enforce DOMA but make declaration of action that is in violation of the DOMA? Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2014 09:56 AM (Xfofp) Uhh, since our brilliant Supreme Court ruled that DOMA was unconstitutional and declared that federal benefits were to be distributed to all legally married couples regardless of gender. They allowed that the states still have the right to determine who can marry. All their federal minion judges under their jurisdiction, such as the clown in Utah, disagree and keep declaring that the states have no right either. So, sometime this year, we will see gay marriage back in front of the court again. Meanwhile, Mr. Holder has been unleashed by the court to make sure that all federal benefits that apply to heretofore traditional married couples, such as tax benefits, bankruptcy benefits, insurance benefits, welfare benefits, blah, blah, blah, are provided IMMEDIATELY to this most pressing and big donor constitutency. And Holder is on the job.

Posted by: Jen at February 09, 2014 07:46 AM (4t/Y9)

163 We also arrested people for marrying a person of another race in 1954.  Just because it was done in the 50's does not make it right.  America was founded by many high minded ideals, yet actually seeing those ideals implemented has been a long struggle against our own hypocrisy and human failings.

Also, one only uses "fag" in two contexts.  1). To disparage gays.  2). They are on 4chan where calling someone a fag is how you say hello.  And yes, you do hate them, you're too willing to deprive them of their freedom via imprisonment to merely "disagree with their lifestyle."

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:47 AM (qJPSp)

164 "It was mostly for those upthread who have entertained the notion that such laws as those recently passed in Russia would be a good idea here. " this is what happens when those laws are not passed http://london.gaycities.com/beaches/302194-hampstead-heath-mens-pond Hampstead Heat (and there are probably thousands of parks around the world in the same situation) used to be a park like the others. Now it is a cruising site for gays who fuck open air. More ghey 'rites' = more of this stuff. Try to fuck your wife in a public place and see how quick is the police to grab you. But we excuse already a lot of extreme behaviour from them under the excuse that they cannot help it, they can't resist their urges. Is this the kind of world you envision?

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 07:47 AM (rnV3B)

165 As far as applying Putin's law here...how close are we to having it applied, but to practicing Christians? But im sure that is just fine and dandy with the gay hissy-fitters. They can indoctronate our young but how dare there be any Christian morals teaching.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 07:47 AM (G1XMn)

166 "Liberty and Reason are inseparable, and once you sacrifice one out of frustration with the current direction of public opinion, you ultimately sacrifice the other." I had no idea Liberty was of such recent vintage in the United States! At least 10 generations of Americans were under the impression they had Liberty, even though they would never have agreed that homosexuality was remotely equal to heterosexuality, let alone a virtuous lifestyle worthy of being advocated to children. I don't think a person is any kind of conservative, neo- or otherwise, who can just manage to forget that all his liberties were won and defended by people who never would have permitted today's fashionable public debauchery, especially among children.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 07:48 AM (FkH4y)

167 Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at February 09, 2014 11:43 AM (dV2/5)
Personally I don't know, but a lot of the more "passionate"  people use it, and I don't feel like mentioning the more mainstream descriptions as they'll just attack my word usage.  See upthread for constant use of scare quotes around gay "rights" for instance.  I'm mostly troubled by those of a more radical persuasion than those who are merely socially conservative.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:50 AM (qJPSp)

168 >>>> Can we agree that some people are a little too zealous in their opposition to the gay agenda?<<<<

Why don't we agree that responding to my question with "When you do _____ and when you do_____" when I have done none of those things is bullshit and that, "That wasn't really directed at you per se" is a pretty shitty apology for trying to light me up as your personal stawman, first?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 07:50 AM (P/gm7)

169 Eric Holder is working, under the rubric of homosexual civil rights, to destroy that part of our constitution which protects the sovereignty of the individual states.

The sympathy which I once had for any gay-rights agenda has eroded to almost nothing, and I suspect I'm not alone. I'm with Russia on this one.

Posted by: AwkwardFirstTimer at February 09, 2014 07:51 AM (JQhul)

170
do you know how most people react to those "breeder" comments? Even most gays and lesbians roll their eyes and consider it nonsense.
Posted by: Captain_Cookie




Yeah, Dan Savage has been ostracized for calling people "breeders".  It's not like he gets to hang out at The White House with the Vice President or something.

Oh, wait: http://tinyurl.com/7j59hve


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 07:51 AM (kdS6q)

171 Would I rather be ruled by Putin or Obama/Holder? At least Putin loves his country and wants it to succeed.

Posted by: whoever at February 09, 2014 07:54 AM (kGSN0)

172 158 "Just because some of them act like children doesn't mean we need to lower ourselves to their level. Besides, do you know how most people react to those "breeder" comments? Even most gays and lesbians roll their eyes and consider it nonsense." here we go again, the trope 'moderate muslims are the majority and unfortunately they are too afraid to speak for fear or retaliation'. Sorry but this crap does not cut it, moderate muslims risk their lives when speaking up (not that I condone their cowardice, again this matter should have been solved a long ago simply barring immigration from countries not compatible), what do the homos and lesbians you know fear from the rest of the 'community' that you say is a minority? If there is massive retaliation from their own it is more evidence and more proof that they are a bunch of fascists that need to be treated not differently from Nazi Groups, KKK members and WEstboro Church Types. Until then, I rest my case. SILENCE is agreement. I do know there is a niche of gays against gay marriage (protests in France and some singular voices here and there in some minor countries) but I haven't heard a single not-aligned voice from the USA or the UK. NOT A SINGLE ONE! They are all in the tank, it is convenient. Where do you get the power to silence any other that you do not like by calling them homophobes? stuff like this can make you lose your job. In London a teacher refused to use the book "heather has 2 mommies" in school 6-12 years old (note: she did not spoke against homos, she simply avoided that book) and she was suspended. Is this the world you want to live in? FIGHT THE TRUE BULLIES!

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 07:55 AM (rnV3B)

173 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 11:47 AM (rnV3B)
Failure to enforce laws against public exhibitionism is not the same as "We need those new laws in Russia."  If it was a public orgy of straight people, would it be any better?  No.  Sex in public is sex in public, to see it as a gay thing is missing the forest for the trees.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 11:48 AM (FkH4y)
Those same men were also slave owners at one point.  We can appreciate the Liberty they bestowed upon us without repeating their mistakes and failings.  I believe that, by Human Nature those of us alive today will make plenty of mistakes without repeating the our forefathers'.  We will spend our last days with enough regret of our own, we do not need to share in the regrets of the past.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:56 AM (qJPSp)

174 >>>>So, basically what you're saying is that 2+2=5 is alright in your book and amounts to nothing.<<<<<

If somebody wants to stand on a corner and preach that I am fine with it. I think they are wrong and if it is an issue I think is important I will drag my soap box out and patiently explain that 2+2 in fact equals 4.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 07:56 AM (P/gm7)

175 Whats the gay agenda? Ok, I'll type slowly for you. Gays know what they do is morally wrong and unnatural, but they desperately want to be able to feel good about their deviance. They want affirmation. Its clear that they dont just want to be left alone to practice their lifestyle. They want to promote it, loudly! They wantto normalize their behavior. So just as the left has an agenda to get to our kids young, so do the gays. Was that slow enough for you?

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 07:58 AM (G1XMn)

176 Posted by: whoever at February 09, 2014 11:54 AM (kGSN0)
Why choose between those two?  Surely we can do better.  And if not, what is the point of sites like these?  If there is not hope for a better tomorrow, for a better leadership, then just shut the hq down and crawl in our beds.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 07:58 AM (qJPSp)

177 Also, one only uses "fag" in two contexts. 1). To disparage gays. 2). They are on 4chan where calling someone a fag is how you say hello. And yes, you do hate them, you're too willing to deprive them of their freedom via imprisonment to merely "disagree with their lifestyle." Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 11:47 AM (qJPSp) We use to call each other homo here all the time. But it was said in a loving, manly way...wink.

Posted by: Judge Pug at February 09, 2014 08:00 AM (NRYdU)

178 "We also arrested people for marrying a person of another race in 1954. Just because it was done in the 50's does not make it right" can you please be less USA centric? Russia never had black people and bans on interracial marriages, as well as Europe, but the gheys are behaving like bullies all over the world. in our case (Europeans) any reference to interracial marriage ban is meaningless, I was never against the interracial marriage ban because simply in my country there never was an interracial marriage ban, please, use another cheap excuse. This parallel with the black during Jim Crow is not universal, being something exclusively related to the united states.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:01 AM (rnV3B)

179 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 11:55 AM (rnV3B)
And how fervently have you spoken out against the Westboro Baptist Church? If one must actively campaign against the worst of the worst in their own ranks, and constantly at that, then surely you have led by example.  It is not as if you expect significantly better from the gays do you?  For one only expects better from those they believe are better than them. 

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:02 AM (qJPSp)

180
We also arrested people for marrying a person of another race in 1954.
Posted by: Captain_Cookie





False analogy.

Or have homosexuals been arrested in the US recently for getting married, or for pretty much any other reason lately, and we just missed it?



Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 08:02 AM (kdS6q)

181 Also, I don't actually care about what is happening in Russia.  Russia is Russia's problem, I care that some people here seem to be seriously considering importing Russian solutions.  This is a bad policy for the most part.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:04 AM (qJPSp)

182 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 09, 2014 12:02 PM (kdS6q)
Sodomy laws were a thing until very recently.  Also, the point wasn't that gays are the same as blacks.  The point was that just because something was the law in 1954 does not make it okay.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:05 AM (qJPSp)

183 Even most gays and lesbians roll their eyes and consider it nonsense.
And they fight the Gaystapo with all the fervour of moderate Moslems fighting radical Islam.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at February 09, 2014 08:06 AM (/QAZd)

184 I never said "arrest all fags". I said fags should not be allowed to indoctrinate people. Also, you seem to not understand the difference between skin color and behavior. Who exactly made you, or anyone else, the language police? My position is that if you comply with the made up language rules devised by your enemies you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

Posted by: Realist at February 09, 2014 08:06 AM (LmD/o)

185 >>>>>And how fervently have you spoken out against the Westboro Baptist Church?<<<<

How fervently have you spoken out against courts attempting to force people with religious and moral objections to homosexuality to cater to gay wedding ceremonies? Freedom of religion and free association is in the 1st Amendment too.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 08:08 AM (P/gm7)

186 And I'm saying that if you alienate yourself to the population at large you're slitting your own throat.  One hand tied behind your back looks pretty good by comparison.  If you want to win convince the population at large that calling gays "fags" is completely acceptable.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:09 AM (qJPSp)

187 173, still for captain cookie who seems to live in a different world than the rest of us, an heterosexual orgy in public places is already stopped and referred to the police and it has been so for decades if not for centuries. This discussion would dramatically improve if you bothered to read provided documentation http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/gay-ghetto-plan-for-hampstead-heath-422097.html QUOTE = For the most part, police and local authorities have turned a blind eye. After he was photographed allegedly cruising on the heath, George Michael defended the practice as part of gay culture. Heterosexuals while being 98% of the population do not engage proportionally in open-air sex simply because there is a woman involved that simply says no. It is not my fault that the gheys natural place to mate are public toilets and parking lots. Gay orgs keep on saying that gheys are way more affluent and wealthy than the rest of us. Can they rent a room?

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:11 AM (rnV3B)

188 Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 12:08 PM (P/gm7)
I don't believe that moderates or even mainstream political types should spend every waking moment of their time attacking the nutjobs in their ranks.  There are these things called "jobs" and "lives" that I feel people should consider more important.  However, if you demand it from others, be prepared to demand it from yourself.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:11 AM (qJPSp)

189 Free speech for me but not for thee. That is the gay agenda. But yes, yes. Let's fight on behalf of the Marxist strategy to destroy traditional Judeo-Christian values disguised and wrapped up in the Trojan Horse now know as the "gay civil rights" agenda. Why' it's all working out so well for the Christian couple from Oregon who've been found guilty of federal civil rights law and facing thousands of dollars in fines all because they've refused to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian couple, based upon their Christian values.

Posted by: Leave Us The Hell Alone at February 09, 2014 08:13 AM (/JWgM)

190 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 12:11 PM (rnV3B)
Wealthier people have gotten away with all sorts of crap for time immemorial.  That does not make it right.  Also, as for police turning a blind eye to things in Britain the problem is a systematic breakdown of the Rule of Law that transcends all individual issues.  This is what the Death of Civilization looks like.  As I like my American Civilization quite alive, I would never advocate such an irresponsible dereliction of duty from law enforcement here in the States.  Just because it happens does not mean I like it, or would excuse it were it within my power to right.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:15 AM (qJPSp)

191 "And how fervently have you spoken out against the Westboro Baptist Church? If one must actively campaign against the worst of the worst in their own ranks, and constantly at that, then surely you have led by example. It is not as if you expect significantly better from the gays do you? For one only expects better from those they believe are better than them. " I do not belong to the Westboro Baptist church, I simply read about them once or twice. They do not speak in my name since I am not part of their branch of Christianity. The few times such an irrelevant group has been in the news there wasn't a single supporting comment from conservatives, in terms of political figures or simple commentators. On the other hand, your friend dan savage goes to the white house frequently and it is highly esteemed in the gay community. Your gay and lesbian friends who roll their eyes at Dan Savage are part of the LGTB groups. This is where the big difference is, if you bother to apply some logic.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:16 AM (rnV3B)

192 Not quite sure I understand the progressives' playbook on homosexuals. They are all in an uproar over Russia's laws regarding homosexual promotion, however not a peep regarding the laws in Muslim countries to put homosexuals to death. In fact, the same progressives who whine about these laws in Russia, tell us that we need to respect the culture of Islam and not tell them how to live. So why do they say we need to tell Russians how to live? Or is this just a case similar to how things work in America. Progressives go after Christians and Jews and Mormons, but don't dare go after Black Christians or Muslims. I guess it's easy to "take a courageous stand!" against Russia, but stay completely silent against Islam and Islamic nations. Simple hypocrisy. Yawn. Wake me up when progressives truly grow some courage and go after Islam. Until then, this is all meaningless hypocritical nonsense and grandstanding.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at February 09, 2014 08:16 AM (7A4qQ)

193 "Sodomy laws were a thing until very recently. " Sodomy laws is again an American peculiarity. France or Spain or even Italy never had sodomy laws, as a matter of fact Oscar Wilde took refuge in Italy and France where he could freely practice gay cruising without being arrensted. Again, are you able to avoid trite talking points that are relevant only for the USA? Either you are able to defend your gay friends in a universal way or you simply pick here and there anomalies that only happened in America, which are not the norm.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:21 AM (rnV3B)

194 >>>>>I don't believe that moderates or even mainstream political types should spend every waking moment of their time attacking the nutjobs in their ranks.<<<<<

Make up your mind. You where the one that threw this out there;

"And how fervently have you spoken out against the Westboro Baptist Church?"

So--

>>> if you demand it from others, be prepared to demand it from yourself.<<<



Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 08:21 AM (P/gm7)

195 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 12:16 PM (rnV3B)
Not all gays and lesbians belong to some special advocacy group.  In fact, I'm not even sure whom Dan Savage actually associates with directly.  Also, not all groups are the same.  If one group that supports X says something stupid, does that mean the members of another group that supports X should revoke their membership?

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:22 AM (qJPSp)

196 192...because they are efemenant pussies! And stupid ones at that.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 08:23 AM (G1XMn)

197 >>>> If one group that supports X says something stupid, does that mean the members of another group that supports X should revoke their membership?<<<

Isn't that exactly what you were saying by bringing up the (Democrat) nuts at Westboro?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 08:24 AM (P/gm7)

198 #186 - What do you know about "the population at large"? You're almost a one-man band here, chastising us for not living up to our great traditions of liberty and welcoming homosexuality into all corners of our lives. And you are determined to wrench this discussion into building a platform for the next American election, when it's clearly about what's going on in Russia. Where "the population at large" is vastly IN FAVOR of Putin's measures to halt homosexual propaganda to children.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at February 09, 2014 08:24 AM (FkH4y)

199 "186 And I'm saying that if you alienate yourself to the population at large you're slitting your own throat." The population at large would think exactly like us (if they don't do that already in the silence of their houses) if it wasn't for wishy washy people like yourself. Fact is NO MOTHER on earth would want to have a homosexual son or daughter and not because of lack of chances to become a grandmother or because she thinks society is baaaaaad. She simply thinks she and her husband gave a model and you naturally want your children to follow that model, exactly like to a lesser extent a doctor wishes that his son becomes a doctor too or an entrepreneur wishes that his son picks up managing the factory. It is a reasonable wish on the side of caring and loving parents. There is also the non-secondary fact that 80% of gays are leftists (and I do not mean only people who foolishly vote democrat, but flat out commies in disguise) who never missed a shot for condemning the traditional family, this is why caring and loving parents would never want their son to 'mix' with them. At any level.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:27 AM (rnV3B)

200 If somebody wants to stand on a corner and preach that I am fine with it. I think they are wrong and if it is an issue I think is important I will drag my soap box out and patiently explain that 2+2 in fact equals 4.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 11:56 AM

And he'll be back next week. Reinvention and being forced to regurgitate the same message does nothing to prevent erosion.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 08:28 AM (krHnX)

201 Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 12:21 PM (P/gm7)
I'm not the one who originally insisted on that standard.  Looking through the thread, it seems that I was originally responding to fromabroad's post at 172 and his argument that gays need to actively fight the more extreme voices in their ranks.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:29 AM (qJPSp)

202

I wonder

 

If all the fags of the world were "eliminated" would the same proportion of fags crop up over time?

 

Is faggotry a function of population control?

 

Or is it simply the deviation it appears to be?

Posted by: common man at February 09, 2014 08:29 AM (RTs7Y)

203 "Wealthier people have gotten away with all sorts of crap for time immemorial." if you mean that wealthier people have gotten away with public orgies I don't think I completely trust you on this one, since George Michael (kind of the wealthy type you mention) was caught numerous times. Police officers are more indulgent with gays for fear of being called homophobic. Heterosexuals do not have such weapon!

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:31 AM (rnV3B)

204 And is the push by fags for "normalcy" merely the fag way of reproducing?

Posted by: common man at February 09, 2014 08:32 AM (RTs7Y)

205 You know, the past is not always a bad thing. Some people want to refer back to past society norms with an oh so enlightened aire. Look at what all of our enlightenment has gotten us. Yes, we are a highly enlightened, civilized society on the brink of collapse. I wonder why? Personally, I wouldnt mind to have the society we had 70 years or so ago.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 08:32 AM (G1XMn)

206 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 12:27 PM (rnV3B)
I didn't know my wishy washy opinions so thoroughly terrified the population that they would claim to support things they didn't support.  Well, I'm hungry now, this thread is getting stale, and my throne of skulls just arrived (how I enjoy tribute form the cowed masses) and I need to break it in.  Ta ta for now.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:32 AM (qJPSp)

207 Captain_Cookie:

Do you not find it disturbing that the same people screaming for their "civil right" to marry have not, as a collective force, uttered one peep in defense of the Christian couple, who have now had their 1st Amendment right rescinded? Where are all of these newly-fervent (homosexual) defenders of the Bill of Rights for this particular couple? Why, there are nowhere to be found because they are instead, gloriously basking in their political victory in silencing and bankrupting a couple who represent a moral force that shaped and structured the most powerful yet compassionate nation in history.

Posted by: Leave Us The Hell Alone at February 09, 2014 08:33 AM (/JWgM)

208 Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 12:32 PM (G1XMn)
But it can be a bad thing, and we need to accept when that is the case and aim to do better.  Every generation should seek to surpass their parents when possible, and encourage their children to do the same to them.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 08:34 AM (qJPSp)

209 "Not all gays and lesbians belong to some special advocacy group. In fact, I'm not even sure whom Dan Savage actually associates with directly. Also, not all groups are the same. If one group that supports X says something stupid, does that mean the members of another group that supports X should revoke their membership?" Google it, Dan Savage is pretty mainstream in terms of gay advocacy, this is why he gets to go to the white house. He is the Sarah Palin of Gays. After what the Duck Dynasty said, the gheys and their supporters went all apoplectic and demanded apologies from everybody and everyone in between (Christians, republicans, southerners, whites etc) and they actually succeeding in threatening the TV show. Not a peep about Dan savage idiocy, remember that this guy also said that Christians should fuck off and die or something. Not a peep by any member of any leftist group. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:35 AM (rnV3B)

210 Well, I think there are enough questions concerning the nature of homosexuality to warrant scientific experiments on the lot of them.

Posted by: common man at February 09, 2014 08:38 AM (RTs7Y)

211 >>>> I was originally responding to fromabroad's post at 172<<<<

You mean the post where fromabroad compares the Westboro types to nazis and the KKK? Sounds like they were being relegated to the condemned bin.

So you are up Cookie. What excesses on the part of the gay rights activists do you condemn?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 08:38 AM (P/gm7)

212 208...and where has all this enlightenment and growth gotten us as a society? Huh? In every way, America is on the brink of collapse, so explain to me how each generation has actually gotten better in terms of being able to successfully govern themselves.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 08:40 AM (G1XMn)

213 All this talk of homosexuality is making me hungry for another banana.

Posted by: Barack Obama at February 09, 2014 08:40 AM (RTs7Y)

214 >>>>And he'll be back next week. Reinvention and being forced to regurgitate the same message does nothing to prevent erosion.<<<<

As opposed to "You can't say that!!", eh?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 08:41 AM (P/gm7)

215 IIRC, the 2+2=4 thing was subversive because 2+2=5 was one of Stalin's slogans for the 5 year plans.  Basically, Stalin wanted to say "It WAS a five year plan, but the USSR is so communitastic that we'll get in done in only FOUR years!"  Thus, government posters everywhere proclaiming 2+2=5.  

Posted by: Taft at February 09, 2014 08:42 AM (d2FFC)

216 "I have reread my second guest piece here and am unsure where I have ever asserted this is a hill to die on, or how this affects the United States directly. Posted by: 2nd Amendment Texan at February 09, 2014 11:00 AM (0TAJR)" Perhaps you're not recognizing hyperbole? That fact is that you thought this was important enough to request a guest post on. It is therefore incumbent upon you to convince the readers of this importance. A significant number of readers here don't seem to be as convinced as you are. Simply asserting that it is important because NBC is talking about it is not an effective argument. This is how the left controls narratives and the dominant conversations. Your position also makes no effort to examine if there is merit to the Russian position while making a laughable assumption - that either side there is interested in an honest policy discussion.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 09, 2014 08:47 AM (0jFxY)

217 "If all the fags of the world were "eliminated" would the same proportion of fags crop up over time? Is faggotry a function of population control?" Homosexuality while it is NOT present in every corner of the world (unlike what the homo propaganda says) it is facilitated in the western world by passing it as a way to get sex more easily (it is a known fact that homos have multiple partners over the years) and with no strings attached. The same thing was the motivator for homosexuality during for the greek and the romans and also the samurai caste in Japan or simply everytime in history when there was a lack of suitable women. The key word is that back then was a PRACTICE and not an identity. At the pick of their homo practices nobody in the roman empire ever thought about the possibility to equate the man-female couple with the man-man couple. The poetess Saffo (allegedly the most famous lesbian of ancient times) was drooling over young soldiers and she also managed to get one drunk and being impregnated. So much for the 'I was born this way' crap. This is never mentioned to you by the gay advocates. They carefully select what details to tell you or what to hide. Secondly homosexuality has never been about population control since in the past even the greeks and the romans were not exclusively homosexuals (Alexander the great impregnated several women and made his contribution as a breeder in spite of his liking of men) and population was decimated by wars and diseases. If it is a way of population control NOW it would make kind of sense, but at this point we would need laws to prevent gay couples from using surrogates and have children. There are several advocates on the left of stopping overpopulation, but you can be sure they would rather stop hetero families (especially if conservative and religious) rather than deprive gheys of their human toys.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:47 AM (rnV3B)

218 Funny how the gays went in full hizsy fit mode when Phil Robertson mentioned what they actually do - stick their penis' into another man's anus. That description is stark compared to the tender, sweet, rainbow man love they want to propagate the image of.

Posted by: Havedash at February 09, 2014 08:48 AM (G1XMn)

219 As opposed to "You can't say that!!", eh?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 12:41 PM

No, as opposed to, "We went over this last week and I proved you wrong then especially when you knew you were full of it to begin with."

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 08:49 AM (krHnX)

220 "I didn't know my wishy washy opinions so thoroughly terrified the population that they would claim to support things they didn't support. " Nowhere else in history I have seen such an attempt to mass brainwashing like I see now for ghey marriage. People are rightly scared to speak out. They wouldn't speak in front of you because you do sound very ambivalent at best, but they do speak out when they know they are in a safe environment. this alone smells of stasi police and totalitarian regimes. Nowadays nobody wants to lose their job. they probably express their ideas at the ballot and this is why you see such discrepancy between the polls and actual votes.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 08:54 AM (rnV3B)

221 >>>No, as opposed to, "We went over this last week and I proved you wrong then especially when you knew you were full of it to begin with."<<<<

So you don't have a problem with the AGW crowd trying to push the climate change "deniers" out of the public square? The science is settled. after all.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 09:00 AM (P/gm7)

222 So you don't have a problem with the AGW crowd trying to push the climate change "deniers" out of the public square? The science is settled. after all.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at February 09, 2014 01:00 PM


"irongrampa" says upthread that gays should "celebrate the homosexuality to your heart's content."

So we have a condemnation of dissent.Yet homosexuality is deviant, always has been and always will be. Homosexuals have a much higher rate of suicide than the general public, and the estimate is that 30-40% of LGBTQ youths have attempted it.


Captain_Cookie posts, "We also arrested people for marrying a person of another race in 1954."

Trying to slip one past in the same way climate hand wringers do.  Unfortunately, the homosexual and the climate hand wringers have the government under their thumbs by invoking false empathy.  So, there goes the erosion.  Now corn prices skyrocket and car engines deteriorate due to ethanol usage.  Liberals smile, never taking into consideration that the damage their policies cause are worse than their intended cure.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 09, 2014 09:23 AM (KQp38)

223 When have you ever seen leftists abide by their own rules if they sense favorable tactics? Russia seems to have, at least in spirit, more sense than we do in America. At the end of the day, it's not about free speech. It's about living in the type of culture you want, feel is normal and healthy (which affects your personal health, physically and mentally) or NOT.

Proggies get it. Many on the right do not. You will not have free ownership of guns soon. Know why? Because the left, similar to homosexual brainwashing, worked to remove gun clubs from schools, and now work collectively to traumatize kids in elementary schools or making pop tart shaped fake pastry guns.

The purpose is conditioning of children. To make in 15 years time most Americans to AGREE with ditching the 2nd amendment, since guns are "bad". It's already working.

Same here.

While even conservatives should be conflicted in some aspects of this law, they should not quibble with the concept of it. Pretty soon, in a nation that forces bakers to participate in a ceremony they disagree with, who would likely provide a benign cake to anybody, including a homosexual, are finding free belief in short supply. Soon, with the homosexual lobby in America at work on kids now, and everyplace else, merely disagreeing with same sex marriage will be called hate speech, etc.

Russia and Putin suck on gun rights, a far more disagreeable policy point thant trying to stop homosexuals from proselytizing to children, but the media and NBC do not care about that. If the same stories of homosexuals being beaten up for not being heterosexual advocated their right to self defense with firearms, maybe if attacked instead of merely being stopped from brainwashing people they could emerge without a beating.

Bottom line is, Russia realizes, as we and even so-called "conservatives" in America do not, that you will live in the society you put up with. If you do not fight for the moral culture with equal or even more force than the proggies do, by any means needed, you will eventually not recognize your own land. America has gone 180 degrees the opposite direction, do you like living here now? 

Posted by: Mehow at February 09, 2014 09:33 AM (2bVKF)

224 "Liberty and Reason are inseparable, and once you sacrifice one out of frustration with the current direction of public opinion, you ultimately sacrifice the other." -------- Since you seem to worship reason, how did D'Anconia Copper handle the looters at their doorstep? When James Taggart tried to destroy Hank Rearden, then got targeted by the government himself, did Rearden assist poor Jimmy or did he step back and watch it burn? Give your enemy just enough rope to hang himself.

Posted by: njrob at February 09, 2014 09:40 AM (zaTr5)

225 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 12:54 PM (rnV3B) ----- Thank you for your excellent comments. Please never be silenced.

Posted by: njrob at February 09, 2014 09:41 AM (zaTr5)

226 Also it is convenient that nobody mentions that the far majority of Russians is non-religious and never attended church (or read the bible), yet the support for this law is 80-90% and mostly NOT for religious reasons. I laugh when I hear that Russians are 'orthodox christian' bigots. There isn't a country that is more atheist than Russia. The media hide this fact since their narrative is to demonize the church which was their first target all along. But unfortunately the idiots on the fence do not get this and some opposition to homos should come from non-religious libertarians who instead prefer to bow down and obey to the new masters.

Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 09:44 AM (rnV3B)

227 Excellent post Gabe!


Posted by: Malcolm Tent at February 09, 2014 09:53 AM (BKHpB)

228 How does this law in Russia affect the US? It's usually leftists that agitate for shit based on ideology rather than national interest. And while I agree that free speech is an important principle- other important principles are national sovereignty and democracy.

Posted by: AMinVA at February 09, 2014 10:46 AM (KaofE)

229 And while I agree that free speech is an important principle-other important principles are national sovereignty and democracy. Posted by: AMinVA at February 09, 2014 02:46 PM Agreed. And another important principle is sanctity of life. But apparently that's icky "social conservatism", so there are no posts here advocating for 'right to life' and no posts here or on lefty sites advocating for right to life of homosexuals in Islamic nations. Interesting how that works. I would think that 'sanctity of life' is more important than any other 'right' considering you can't enjoy any 'rights' without being alive. Apparently, the 'rights' that are to be preserved above all else are speech and homosexuality, not necessarily in that order, especially when the former gets in the way of the latter.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at February 09, 2014 11:27 AM (7A4qQ)

230 And how fervently have you spoken out against the Westboro Baptist Church? If one must actively campaign against the worst of the worst in their own ranks, and constantly at that, then surely you have led by example. It is not as if you expect significantly better from the gays do you? For one only expects better from those they believe are better than them.

Posted by: Captain_Cookie at February 09, 2014 12:02 PM (qJPSp)

Actually, most people on the right have spoken out against the Westboro Baptist "Church". And it's a well-known false flag operation, filled with Democrats. If it didn't exist, the Left would have to invent it. Wait, they did.



Only a fool, or a faggot, would attempt to slur the Right by linking them to the Westboro creeps.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2014 11:33 AM (pFqpP)

231 As far as I understand this Russian law, it prohibits gay speech esp. around children. It's like in America we can't have nudity on primetime tv. Or strong swearing. I see nothing wrong with Russia's law. They really ARE doing it for the children.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 09, 2014 01:57 PM (KL49F)

232 Posted by: fromabroad at February 09, 2014 11:33 AM (rnV3B)

Thanks. I really like this law and the idea of it is no different from the censors that are in place right here in America for primetime tv. We protect the kids from sex and swearing and violence, they protect theirs from homos. I wish we did too. This isn't about free speech anymore than our FCC laws are. It's about responsibility.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 09, 2014 02:01 PM (KL49F)

233 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

Posted by: Bob at February 09, 2014 08:33 PM (2Y6Hc)

234

58 "Note the date on the poster -- 1939. It's commemorating the "liberation" of Eastern Poland (Western Belarus) when the Soviets were cooperating with the Nazis."

I speak Russian pretty well, but was initially puzzled by the caption, which seemed to say something like "Our armee am armee of summoning percentidges. -- J. Stalin"

The problem, of course, is that the caption is actually in Belarussian, not Russian. (And it correctly translates as "Our army is the army of the liberation of workers.")

Posted by: Throbert McGee at February 10, 2014 02:37 PM (WF4AS)

235

230 "As far as I understand this Russian law, it prohibits gay speech esp. around children. "

 

 

The problem is that (a) the law doesn't use the word "children" -- it uses a term equivalent to "legal minors", i.e., including teenagers who are ALMOST old enough to vote; and (b) it appears to ban "pro-gay propaganda" in any forum where these "legal minors" can get access to it, which would include the editorial and opinion pages of newspapers.

 

 

Thus, IF the law were actually enforced as written, it would APPEAR to ban any Russian advice columnist ("Anya Landersovskaya"?) from reassuring parents that their 25-year-old gay son has a reasonably good chance of a living a long, happy, and well-adjusted life as a homosexual, and that if he behaves sensibly, he can easily avoid getting AIDS, and so forth.  (Obviously, this has to be banned lest  a 14-year-old boy might see the "Anya Landersovskaya" column and be tempted into trying homosexuality -- she makes it sound so harmless, after all!)

 

 

In short, the law is written in overbroad language and could THEORETICALLY stifle a lot of responsible and respectable adult dialogue about issues related to homosexuality and sexual orientation in general.

 

 

On the other hand, in actual practice, the law seems to have been used (so far) only against activists doing the usual queer-activist-y things like flag-waving and Kiss-Ins -- and not against academics who argue that people are "born homosexual" as a side effect of uterine hormones (for example), nor against medical professionals who advocate that gay men should always use condoms, and so forth. 

Posted by: Throbert McGee at February 10, 2014 03:03 PM (WF4AS)

236  225 "Also it is convenient that nobody mentions that the far majority of Russians is non-religious and never attended church (or read the bible), yet the support for this law is 80-90% and mostly NOT for religious reasons. I laugh when I hear that Russians are 'orthodox christian' bigots." I agree with your basic point, but the "Orthodox Christian Bigot" charge isn't totally false -- because a lot of non-religious Russians who don't go to church and don't read the Bible nevertheless consider themselves to be "culturally" Orthodox Christian, as part of their overall Russian-ness. For many, being _pravoslavnyi_ ("Eastern Orthodox", as opposed to Roman Catholic or Protestant) is an integral part of the Russian identity, regardless of whether a given individual actually subscribes to the doctrines of Orthodox Church.  Which means that anti-gay pronouncements from the Orthodox clergy may still have an effect on a considerable number of non-religious Russians.   

Posted by: Throbert McGee at February 10, 2014 03:15 PM (WF4AS)

237 " ... or for wearing a Will & Grace T-Shirt."

Good God, that SHOULD be illegal.

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at February 11, 2014 08:08 AM (oNqbW)

238 "Not quite sure I understand the progressives' playbook on homosexuals. They are all in an uproar over Russia's laws regarding homosexual promotion, however not a peep regarding the laws in Muslim countries to put homosexuals to death. In fact, the same progressives who whine about these laws in Russia, tell us that we need to respect the culture of Islam and not tell them how to live."

Russia should call themselves Communist again and the proggies would be down with it.

"Why should I go to bat for the gay community, when they are closely aligned, and many times the same people, who would like nothing better than to shutdown conservative free speech?"

We shouldnt waste spit or thought on a 2nd rate power (Russia) and their 2nd-rate laws. We SHOULD be offended that Imperialist Leftists opposed offing a dictator (Saddam) but feel otherwise free to impose imperialistic ideas like "screw what the russian bigots want, we know better." In fact, these people DONT know better and exert their own inner fascist often, on us.

... another way to look at it: We are upset over this Russian impingement on free speech and YET we have case after case of people's words in the US becoming a firing offense. We live today in the US under the leftists' New McCarthyism, where the ThoughtCrime, if expressed, gets you viciously attacked by the feminist/PCgay/leftist/CAIR/OWS/etc. Thought Police.

Pots, Kettles, and black.

Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at February 11, 2014 08:16 AM (oNqbW)

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