Ace of Spades HQ

April 04, 2014

One Reason The Overton Window DoesnÂ’t Open For ConservativesÂ…No One Is Really Trying To Do It
— DrewM

On this weekÂ’s podcast Ace and I disagreed over the importance and virtue of the latest Ryan Plan budget. As I wrote earlier this week, I think itÂ’s a waste of time that will be of no benefit to the GOP. I brought this up as my quick hit and Ace brought up Kevin WilliamsonÂ’s piece pointing out that thereÂ’s nothing close to a majority that supports big spending cuts. Obviously I agree with this because disagreeing with that notion is like disagreeing with the idea that the Sun will rise in the east and set in the west. ItÂ’s just a fact.

My problem with the Williamson/Ace position is that unlike the SunÂ’s daily path, public attitudes toward public policy are not fixed for all time by the laws of physics. America was not always enamored of big government. Liberals spent decades building support and banking incremental victories when thatÂ’s all that was available and making big leaps ahead when opportunities presented themselves. What liberals never did in their long march to the left was go right and agree to shrink or limit government.

Conservatives and the GOP have not marched steadily to the right. Quite the opposite in fact. When the GOP had both houses of Congress in the 90s they passed Ted Kennedy's SCHIP health insurance plan as a consolation gift to the Democrats after the defeat of HillaryCare. When they had both houses of Congress and the presidency they passed Medicare Part D, pushed the federal government further into controlling education through No Child Left Behind and generally spent money at historic levels on everything they could.

Yes, to his credit George W. Bush tried and failed to fundamentally reform Social Security. And having failed, unlike the Democrats and SCHIP, no Republican has mentioned it since.

One side sees rejection by the public as a temporary obstacle to be overcome and the other simply turns tail and never tries again.

Maybe Republicans are just responding to what people wanted but they certainly were not offering an alternative. They were not making the case that fiscal restraint isnÂ’t an option but an imperative.

Given the opportunity to use the catastrophic failure of ObamaCare to discredit the liberal program of big government, Republicans have responded by promising to deliver much of what ObamaCare was supposed to do but by different government sponsored means.

No wonder the Overton Window never moves in our direction. The GOP is too busy trying to follow the Democrats through the space they've already opened.

If there had been a comparable failure by conservatives or Republicans you can bet the left would be proposing all sorts of new programs, spending and regulations. ThatÂ’s how the Overton Window opensÂ…you use the environment you find yourself in to push the things you want.

Another status quo GOP budget that has no effect on the sequester busting Ryan-Murray agreement, that when push comes to shove Republicans wonÂ’t vote to actually implement if it means cutting a dime of spending or worse yet, missing the chance to spend even more money, is meaningless.

Right now the GOPÂ’s position amounts to saying, the path to smaller government involves giving back measures that shrink government and increasing government and once the public demands something that no one is offering, shrinking government, they will get right on delivering it.

Unfortunately that's not how politics works or how attitudes change. The Overton Window will not open itself. It has to be moved by an entire party, or at least a sizable chunk of it, committed to promoting and delivering something different first.

If you really want to start changing what's possible in politics, you're going to have to find and support candidates who are trying to move the electorate in your direction. Without that you'll keep getting told that the most direct path to where you want to go involves going in the opposite direction of your desired destination.

Posted by: DrewM at 06:09 AM | Comments (503)
Post contains 689 words, total size 5 kb.

1 We're fucked.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 06:12 AM (PFy0L)

2 That money being spent comes out of taxpayer pockets. Not all of them live in urban areas where the rocking horse winner cry of "more money, more money, there must be more..." is heard or paid obeisance to. May sanity prevail over the long haul...

Posted by: M. Murcek at April 04, 2014 06:12 AM (GJUgF)

3 America was not always enamored of big government.

Only for the last six generations.

Posted by: HR at April 04, 2014 06:13 AM (ZKzrr)

4 Circling the bowl.

Posted by: Infidel at April 04, 2014 06:13 AM (Z1SI2)

5 Maybe some sort of treatment for that window. Drapes, glass curtains, blinds? Maybe a film to cut the glare on the South side, eh?

Posted by: Kindletot at April 04, 2014 06:14 AM (XGAav)

6 burn it let

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 04, 2014 06:15 AM (u8GsB)

7 The Republican Party: Come Whig Out With Us

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (naUcP)

8 Conservatives are still trying to use Windows 3. Hopefully they will upgrade to Windows 95 for this year's elections.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (ndlFj)

9 Unfortunately that's not how politics works or how attitudes change. The Overton Window will not open itself. It has to be moved by an entire party, or at least a sizable chunk of it, committed to promoting and delivering something different first.

I agree almost entirely, but with the caveat that the PARTY must first be pushed towards that Overton Window. That's where we come in: the actual people of this country who can see what's coming and want to DO something about it.

We can't sit here and expect the politicians to do anything; they've already proven at least 90% of them are worthless. We have to first take back the culture of this country. That means we have to take back the schools, take back the universities, and perhaps most importantly, take back the entertainment industry. I wish to God I had the skill or money to be a filmmaker, because that's where we will make an impact. We have to overcome the left coast monopoly. We HAVE to, or nothing else will matter.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (4df7R)

10 The impact zone at the bottom of the cliff will recognize no party affiliation.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (659DL)

11 The Overton Window moved on guns. There is vastly more support these days for individual gun rights than in the past. Why? Because the NRA doesn't give an inch. Not one fucking inch. That should be our strategy. Not. One. Inch.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (hFL/3)

12 The ousted Mozilla CEO was the guy who invented JavaScript. He personally invented one of the building blocks of the modern web. Yet $1k donation to an unfashionable political cause and he's purged from Silicon Valley.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 04, 2014 06:16 AM (ZPrif)

13 The Establishment GOP and the pundit class always plays defense, and tries to justify what they feel conservatism is or should be based on the values imposed on it by the leftists. This has to stop. We need a party and politicians who will ATTACK the Democrats and leftists at any and every opportunity. And with assholes like McCocksickle, McStains, Ryan and the rest, it won't happen.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 04, 2014 06:17 AM (CMkNk)

14 7 The Republican Party: Come Whig Out With Us Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 10:16 AM (naUcP) FLIP THE WHIGS. VOTE CONSERVATIVE OR DIE!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 04, 2014 06:18 AM (CMkNk)

15 "I wish to God I had the skill or money to be a filmmaker, because that's where we will make an impact. We have to overcome the left coast monopoly. We HAVE to, or nothing else will matter." The problem is that there are conservatives trying to do this, but the left still kicks them in then nuts at every turn. Just recently a group tried to use Kickstarter to make a Gosnell movie. Kickstarter rejected their proposal. It's a rigged system.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 06:18 AM (hFL/3)

16 I never like the answer "let it burn". It tends to lead to "I'm on fire, aaaagh."
Maybe someone can answer this: Why did Paraguay and Argentina, with similar backgrounds and environment manage to go through dictatorships and coups, and Paraguay wind up with a fairly sane republic and Argentina right back to Fascist Peronism with a new name?

Posted by: Kindletot at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (XGAav)

17 It's funny how the polls tend to show public dissatisfaction with big government, yet the GOP never, ever campaigns on it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (0HooB)

18 the gop has no interest in conservatism. they lie their asses off continually. fuck em. let the whole thing go, ill be dead by the time the gulags get going.

Posted by: rev dr der commisar miller at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (Hqi7k)

19 The expansion of gun rights is due to 5-4 Supreme Court victories. And that is due to getting Republicans elected to the White House. The liberal states that have expanded gun rights have not voted for it -- they have been forced by the courts to do so. And if Obama or Hillary appoints Scalia or Thomas successors then those 5-4 gun rights victories, like Heller, will be reversed. And all the blue state gun rights expansion will be reversed the week after.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (ZPrif)

20 The Establishment GOP and the pundit class always plays defense, and tries to justify what they feel conservatism is or should be based on the values imposed on it by the leftists.

Because the GOPe are not conservatives themselves. They make the right mouthsounds when they feel it'll get them votes, but they're not conservative. We need to get rid of them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (4df7R)

21 All of that can be summed up in two words:

Democrat Lite,

more gas less filling. I am about done with the Republican Party

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 04, 2014 06:19 AM (T2V/1)

22 "One side sees rejection by the public as a temporary obstacle to be overcome and the other simply turns tail and never try again."

I present gay rights --> civil unions --> gay marriage --> mandatory support of all things gay, as proof positive of DrewM's statement.

The Left's focus is the future. And that's why they win.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 04, 2014 06:20 AM (QFxY5)

23 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 10:16 AM (4df7R) I'm all for taking back the universities! I just have no fucking idea where to begin. The only thing I can offer right now is that are people scattered around the country thinking who will forever hear my voice in the back of their heads saying: "I'll always be on the other side of the argument you're taking." But until the current tenured generation dies off (like they're retire) there's not much for me to do.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:20 AM (HDwDg)

24 "He personally invented one of the building blocks of the modern web. Yet $1k donation to an unfashionable political cause and he's purged from Silicon Valley." We're interested.

Posted by: Galt's Gulch at April 04, 2014 06:20 AM (hFL/3)

25 The problem is that there are conservatives trying to do this, but the left still kicks them in then nuts at every turn. Just recently a group tried to use Kickstarter to make a Gosnell movie. Kickstarter rejected their proposal. It's a rigged system.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 10:18 AM (hFL/3)

Yep. So that's why we have to start our own Kickstarters, or find other crowdfunding sites (I believe the Gosnell team moved over to indiegogo). And those of us who have any kind of significant disposable income need to start going lawfare on their asses.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:21 AM (4df7R)

26 If we don't support the GOP wholeheartedly, we could be persecuted for our beliefs, even fired, or forced by the courts to provide services to events we find abhorrent.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 06:21 AM (chqG9)

27 Are you not familiar with John O'Sullivan's law? OÂ’SullivanÂ’s Law states that any organization or enterprise that is not expressly right wing will become left wing over time. The law is named after British journalist John OÂ’Sullivan." So yeah, the Republicans have been moving left for a very long time. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=O%E2%80%99Sullivan%E2%80%99s%20Law

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:21 AM (bb5+k)

28 Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 04, 2014 10:19 AM (ZPrif This isn't entirely true. The last states to get gun rights have been forced, but because the last holdouts are always the most entrenched. MO voted for CCW in the legislature (it was originally voted down by ballot initiative, but I'm standing here as proof that much has changed since then.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:22 AM (HDwDg)

The expansion of gun rights is due to 5-4 Supreme Court victories. And that is due to getting Republicans elected to the White House.

The liberal states that have expanded gun rights have not voted for it -- they have been forced by the courts to do so.

-------------

Not entirely - look at how many states issued shall-issue concealed carry permits 20 years ago. Look at how many do today. And a lot of those switches were done well before Heller.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 06:22 AM (PFy0L)

30 The GOP is useful...but only to a certain point. Don't commit yourself to its banner so much that you forfeit ability to act in later years. The key is to have plausible deniability if you ever need it, because you might (Churchill, see). Thus, a studied independence of the GOP is necessary, because they are probably as big a part of the problem as anything--perhaps because I doubt they ever get out of the way till circumstances so force. Too much inertia in their ranks, too many seeing "tea party" as the true problem, and too many white old men bizmen just wanting rent-seeking and not much else. We can win, in the long run. This is because the acme of skill is to lose so that you set up the win.

Posted by: Horatius at April 04, 2014 06:23 AM (4IIrG)

31 No wonder the Overton Window never moves in our direction. The GOP is too busy trying to follow the Democrats through the space they've already opened.
***
And this is why the Establishment Republicans are currently a bigger threat the to the Republic then the Democrats are.

Partisan politics swings back and forth, but when it swings in the Republican direction they continue pushing to the left, just slower then the Democrats.

We need to make sure that when it does swing back to the Republicans that they party's leadership is actually made up of conservatives, or we will see yet another wasted opportunity, like in the mid 00s...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:23 AM (78TbK)

The GOP has no interest in reducing the level of government, nor the spending. They, along with their democrat allies, are primarily concerned with staying in power, and collecting bribes. I can guarantee you that every single member of congress is taking bribe money, disguised as campaign contributions, which are then laundered back into the candidates' pockets.

The difference between democrats and republicans is that the democrats are smart enough to run on concepts which logically expand the power and spending of the government, with the democrat candidate getting a cut. The GOP runs on promises to cut government and spending, which they have no intention of doing.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 06:23 AM (0Jb7F)

33 Cause only Comedy Central's parent company Viacom (annual revenue $14B) and other Corporate Media behemoths should be allowed to spend unlimited money to influence elections and public policy!! John Nolte ‏@NolteNC Corporate Money-Backed Jon Stewart BlastsÂ… Corporate Money http://shar.es/BESNJ via @BreitbartNews

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 04, 2014 06:23 AM (ZPrif)

34 Just recently a group tried to use Kickstarter to make a Gosnell movie. Kickstarter rejected their proposal. It's a rigged system.

They found a different platform to take their project.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gosnell-movie

I'm normally skeptical of "crowd-sourcing" but I sent them a few bucks.

Posted by: HR at April 04, 2014 06:23 AM (ZKzrr)

35 This is why I am finished with the Republican Party. No more money and no more votes. Completely unprincipled assholes.

Posted by: Daninmichigan at April 04, 2014 06:24 AM (HOYF2)

36 Much political theory posits that the Overton Window never moves in the direction of less government in an electoral society because of inherent factors. Thomas Jefferson, for example, said that the natural order of things is for government to grow, and liberty to yield. Plato said that electoral societies would always descend into class warfare and anarchy. Hayek and Friedman noted that economic problems of concentrated benefits and diffuse costs plagues electoral society, echoing Bastiat's point that everyone tries to live at the expense of government, even when government exists at the expense of everyone.

It may not be fair to blame Republicans for this if our problems are much deeper than that.

Posted by: JohnJ at April 04, 2014 06:25 AM (TF/YA)

37 Money is a power drug and everyone in Washington is both pushing it to their chosen beneficiaries and hooked on it. Trying to reign in the level of corrupt spending that has created $18 trillion in debt and $127 trillion in unfunded liabilities would probably be as traumatic to this country and this country outright failing. It isn't only that there is not the political will or even a whole hearted patriotic desire to fix this problem, it is the fact that the cure will likely be every bit as fatal to the patient as the cure.

For this government (not the country as it was designed) to endure, it necessarily has to become more powerful and authoritarian.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 06:26 AM (BZAd3)

Change the debate to ridiculing and destroying political correctness. Everybody fears it, nobody likes it except those who beat others down with it. Make them the scolds and the haters, make it about free speech, and take away the Left's biggest silencing stick. Make it as dirty a word as liberal was twenty years ago (when they started calling themselves 'progressives.')

Posted by: --- at April 04, 2014 06:26 AM (MMC8r)

39
I present gay rights --> civil unions --> gay marriage --> mandatory support of all things gay, as proof positive of DrewM's statement.
___
I can't wait for the next step! I won't even need the van or the free candy anymore!

Posted by: Safe Schools Czar Jennings at April 04, 2014 06:26 AM (78TbK)

40 Why did Paraguay and Argentina, with similar backgrounds and environment manage to go through dictatorships and coups, and Paraguay wind up with a fairly sane republic and Argentina right back to Fascist Peronism with a new name? It didn't. Might want to research recent Paraguay history a little better. Chile's doing well, though. But who knows if that will last.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 06:26 AM (naUcP)

41 Fuck me I drank too much last night. What the fuck is going on today.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:27 AM (gOoFi)

42 While i know they are the ones writing the laws, They do so without the responsibilty of paying for their new laws, I at times wish we could all do the same, don't you? hell i would love to decide i want to live better and afford better groceries and hell take a vacation! Just write a check that will be backed by the OTHER taxpayers. Yet, yet, if i wrote checks, when the money was not actually in my acct. expecting Others to pay for my desires I would be jailed. where's My Fair Share! my nonsensical 2 cents is just as nonsensical reality as theirs. it will have to be paid back , while they also wrote laws and regulations decimating the economy, how is this not morally corrupt?

Posted by: willow at April 04, 2014 06:28 AM (nqBYe)

Wait - you mean you actually have to work at politics to get what you want? You can't just stand there and demand that people do what you want? You must do some horsetrading, develop candidates, and articulate positions?

Well that sucks. I prefer ineffective demands and futile posturing. It's more fun than that other stuff which sounds like hard work.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 06:28 AM (hLRSq)

44 41 Fuck me I drank too much last night.

What the fuck is going on today.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 10:27 AM (gOoFi)

In short, we're fucked.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 06:28 AM (DrWcr)

45 So yeah, the Republicans have been moving left for a very long time. Actually, the GOP has always been big government, initially for industrial and commercial development. The Goldwater/Reagan era is more the anomaly. I'm afraid we're going to need our own thing here.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 06:29 AM (naUcP)

46 NRA was effective in expanding gun rights in red states, in liberal states and cities they weren't. Jurisdictions controlled by the Left only expanded gun rights when forced to by the courts. NRA's help in the lawfare battle's and court cases was key. But all that is moot if we don't have a 5-4 majority on the court. There's literally no fact the NRA can ever give Sotomayor, Kagan, Breyer, or Ginsburg that will even convince them to support gun rights. And if Obama or Hillary gets to replace a pro-gun rights vote that person will no doubt be ideologically opposed to gun rights and the Left will have an impermeable anti-gun 5-4 majority.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 04, 2014 06:29 AM (ZPrif)

47 So here's the thing that strikes me.

The last genuinely successful Republican presidential aspirant -- and President -- was Ronald Reagan. And what got Reagan elected and re-elected were sharp, specific, detailed and constant critiques of what had happened to America since the New Deal.

After Reagan, that stopped.

The trajectory of the GOP after Reagan is predominantly the trajectory set by the Bushes. And instead of consistently attacking the big-government consensus, and presenting alternatives, the Bushes accepted it. Trying to manage big government more responsibly than liberals, instead of working to dismantle it.

Most central to this shift is that the Bushes tacitly accepted the proposition that liberalism and big government are inherently "compassionate".

And instead of actively refuting that premise, the Bushes chose a rhetorical line which boiled down to saying, "Yeah, liberals are compassionate, but hey, we conservatives are compassionate too!"

Thus: "a kinder and gentler nation". Thus: "a thousand points of light". Thus: "compassionate conservatism".

Whereas what should be said, and what it would be hoped Zombie Reagan would say if he were to walk the earth today, is that _there is nothing genuinely compassionate about modern liberalism_.

Trapping kids in failing schools that ruin their lives in order to prop up fatcat teachers' unions? Is that compassionate?

Medical protocols which amount to quiet euthanasia of the inconvenient elderly? Is that compassionate?

Saddling generations yet unborn with a crushing burden of debt from the instant they first draw breath? Is that compassionate?

THIS is the line of argument that must be rediscovered. The whole Bushian notion, of accepting the liberal premise of the compassionate nature of liberalism, has to be jettisoned as the failed malarkey that it is.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 06:29 AM (noWW6)

48 "In short, we're fucked." All right. Same story as yesterday.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:30 AM (gOoFi)

49 Much political theory posits that the Overton Window never moves in the direction of less government in an electoral society because of inherent factors.
***
If you look at American history though it was arguably freer in say 1880 then in 1780 (slavery banned, progressive had infected the body politic yet). And this effect was even more pronounced in Europe. You generally see societies become more free up until some time in the early 1900s...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:30 AM (78TbK)

50 We can win, in the long run. This is because the acme of skill is to lose so that you set up the win. Posted by: Horatius at April 04, 2014 10:23 AM (4IIrG) Also, liberal ideas absolutely wreck the people who advocate them. We will outsurvive them because their ideas are going to kill off their supporters.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:30 AM (bb5+k)

51 Change the debate to ridiculing and destroying political correctness. Everybody fears it, nobody likes it except those who beat others down with it. Make them the scolds and the haters, make it about free speech, and take away the Left's biggest silencing stick. Make it as dirty a word as liberal was twenty years ago (when they started calling themselves 'progressives.')
Posted by: --- at April 04, 2014 10:26 AM (MMC8r)

Exactly.

LIVs might not understand the difference between the federal Debt and the federal Deficit, but they understand someone getting expelled from school because they wore a t-shirt with the American flag on it. So that's where we work. The left loves to use individual anecdotes to make it seem like they actually give a shit about the people they use. We can do the same thing, but with the major difference that we DO give a shit.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:30 AM (4df7R)

52 " You can't just stand there and demand that people do what you want? You must do some horsetrading, develop candidates, and articulate positions?" Huh?

Posted by: The Democratic Party at April 04, 2014 06:31 AM (hFL/3)

53 " You can't just stand there and demand that people do what you want? You must do some horsetrading, develop candidates, and articulate positions?"

Huh?

Posted by: The Democratic Party at April 04, 2014 10:31 AM (hFL/3)

"Yeah, what?"

-The Republican establishment

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:32 AM (4df7R)

54 Well that sucks. I prefer ineffective demands and futile posturing. It's more fun than that other stuff which sounds like hard work. You've got a point. Unfortunately It takes me eight seconds to comment, but I can't spend all day out crusading. I have to work.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 06:33 AM (chqG9)

55 Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 10:29 AM (noWW6) Good analysis, and right on target. Yes, the Bush's are to be thanked for putting us on this path instead of the one we should be on.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:33 AM (bb5+k)

56 I've said it, plus many others. Let It Burn

Posted by: fred zeppelin at April 04, 2014 06:33 AM (zL/eJ)

57 No shortage of food or price/wage inspired shortages like the Argies have and Paraguay isn't talking about invasion to take everyone's mind off of their economic woes. It ain't Singapore but there are worse ways to suffer under grinding poverty and endemic cronyism.

Posted by: Kindletot at April 04, 2014 06:33 AM (XGAav)

58 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 10:32 AM (4df7R :sigh: I suppose it's going to be time soon to start becoming mildly active in my local party too. Move them ever conservative, actually pushing candidates at all levels. But I HATE people. :sigh:

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:34 AM (HDwDg)

59 Well it's pretty obvious then that R's don't really want to change things as they are, just get some of those juicy crony bucks for themselves and pals. Liars, cheaters, criminals. Time for a third (call it the "Opposition") party.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 04, 2014 06:35 AM (gUoN4)

60 56 I've said it, plus many others. Let It Burn Posted by: fred zeppelin at April 04, 2014 10:33 AM (zL/eJ) "Everything is gonna burn We'll all take turns, I'll get mine too"

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 04, 2014 06:35 AM (u8GsB)

61
THIS is the line of argument that must be rediscovered. The whole Bushian notion, of accepting the liberal premise of the compassionate nature of liberalism, has to be jettisoned as the failed malarkey that it is.
***
To extent your argument I would argue that we specifically need political leaders that will attack "compassionate" government on a visceral level.

We are generally given the choice in the Republican party between those who support the "compassionate" government consensus (the Establishment) and those who don't but reject it on an intellectual level.

The LIVs don't care about facts, figures, or complicated analysis.

We don't need people to talk about why Obamacare isn't working. We need people to accuse Obama of taking away people's good health insurance.

We don't need people to talk about why government schools are failing. We need people to talk about how the fact cat union leaders and the bureaucrats are trapping kids in failing schools.

Etc.

Emotional arguments are a core part of a winning strategy, and even the actual conservatives in the Republican party generally refuse to go there.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:35 AM (78TbK)

62 I really can't get started on the NRA. They endorse as many bad guys as good. I used to be a member but no more. I don't need them giving my money to Harry Reid or Kirsten Gillibrand or Dipshit Pryor anymore.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:36 AM (gOoFi)

63 Our Constitution was written to limit the power of the federal government. But it was destroyed following 1865 and completely obviated with the advent of the progressive era in the early 1900s.

FDR buried it in the 1930s and LBJ turned it into an oligarchy of communists. We have never recovered from LBJ.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 04, 2014 06:36 AM (T2V/1)

64 You will see Drew proven right in 2015 when the GOP Senate jams it's thumb up its ass and tumbles down a flight of stairs.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2014 06:36 AM (AO9UG)

65 Continued from the last thread becaue it's important: The Salon article calling for the jobs of every donor like Eich is not satire. Salon doesn't do satire. It's the home of Joan "the Red" Walsh for fuck's sake. The article has sortable spreadsheets so the Comrades can individually target and harass everyone who donated against ghey marriage. That's not satire. That's a Commie purge.

Posted by: Citizen X at April 04, 2014 06:37 AM (7ObY1)

66 "It is not, perhaps, unreasonable to conclude, that a pure and perfect democracy is a thing not attainable by man, constituted as he is of contending elements of vice and virtue, and ever mainly influenced by the predominant principle of self-interest. It may, indeed, be confidently asserted, that there never was that government called a republic, which was not ultimately ruled by a single will, and, therefore, (however bold may seem the paradox,) virtually and substantially a monarchy." Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser (1854).

Human fucking nature. We have to go back to the beginning. That in my obviously ignorant opinion, is why a convention of the states is so absolutely necessary.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 06:37 AM (BZAd3)

Moving the Overton Window is why I'm a libertarian. No one will ever get elected under the Libertarian banner, but we try to persuade both parties of the merits of freedom.

It's a venn diagram and the crossover isn't very large, but that's something to focus on. The GOP per se means nothing to me.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 06:37 AM (JtwS4)

68 After 6 years of Obama and the Democrats raping the country, the important thing to focus on is that Republicans are just as bad! You can trust me, because I'm a True Conservative, pure and noble. Let's be honest. Romney or McCain would be even worse than Obama. Kagan and Sotomayor are Goldwater-like compared to any judges they would have put on the court! As a True Conservative, you should listen to my advice to abandon politics in despair and just shout angry curses on the internet instead. I was involved in politics, briefly. It's not my fault people didn't do exactly what I told them to. I even screamed and cursed at them to emphasize how serious I was. Some say it's my crippling social anxiety and poorly contained rage at life that limited my effectiveness. I say it's cause everybody but me is a goddamned socialist fucking pussy. Let it Burn! Despair! TrueKaaaaaaaaahn has Spoken!!!!!

Posted by: TrueKaaaaaaahn! at April 04, 2014 06:37 AM (ZPrif)

69 And this is why the Establishment Republicans are currently a bigger threat the to the Republic then the Democrats are. Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 10:23 AM (78TbK) Yup.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:38 AM (bb5+k)

70 Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 10:35 AM (78TbK) Indeed. I'm slowly learning this. Don't tell the story about how subsidies will bankrupt the feds, or how Medicaid expansion will bankrupt the states. The LIVs don't care. What gets more reaction is talking about my dad's small bank which may have to drop coverage for it's 8 employees because it's jumping in price for shit they don't want. Or the story of my friend who, because he's had trouble finding a full time work, was forcibly shunted into Medicaid, even though he always set aside money for a Catastrophic plan (which is no longer allowed to be sold, plus, you're forced into Medicaid if you're eligible.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:38 AM (HDwDg)

71 I've been mystified as to why Ryan is pushing this budget nonsense, after he went and gutted all the cuts that had already been agreed upon. It's almost like he thinks we are all idiots out here in flyover land, and we won't remember how he fooled us the last time.

Posted by: whyme at April 04, 2014 06:39 AM (l9mF2)

72 Oh, and one other problem we face is that in the areas where we have power we refuse to use it.

Consider, for example, that the left just got the CEO of Mozilla fired for a conservative political opinion.

Why are conservatives, who make up most of the hiring managers in the private sector, still hiring liberals?

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:39 AM (78TbK)

73 "You will see Drew proven right in 2015 when the GOP Senate jams it's thumb up its ass and tumbles down a flight of stairs." B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:39 AM (gOoFi)

74 We have never recovered from LBJ.

Posted by: Vic at April 04, 2014 10:36 AM (T2V/1)

I certainly consider him an evil man.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 06:39 AM (BZAd3)

75 68 After 6 years of Obama and the Democrats raping the country, the important thing to focus on is that Republicans are just as bad! Posted by: TrueKaaaaaaahn! at April 04, 2014 10:37 AM (ZPrif) Which is why we must support Republicans when they make common cause with Democrats.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 06:39 AM (chqG9)

76 It's really not that complex. Income tax has to go. We either get rid of the the government's first claim to every penny we earn through tax laws that guarantee politicians will choose their friends as winners and others as losers.. Or we continue the downward slide toward slavery. Truth is "soft" slavery is already here. I work 2.6 days a week for my master's coffers - as do most of you.

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at April 04, 2014 06:40 AM (ME3z1)

77 It may not be fair to blame Republicans for this if our problems are much deeper than that. Posted by: JohnJ at April 04, 2014 10:25 AM (TF/YA) That is exactly the point I was making by citing John O'Sullivan's law. The problem of gravitating toward the left are systemic.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:40 AM (bb5+k)

78 Why are conservatives, who make up most of the hiring managers in the private sector, still hiring liberals?

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 10:39 AM (78TbK)

Huh?

What mythical private sector is this?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 04, 2014 06:40 AM (QFxY5)

79 Oregon went from "may issue but probably not" to shall issue in 1989, and it is also pretty good on open carry. This was because of popular pressure, not court mandate, and Oregon is pretty blue these days yet their gun laws remain decent.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 06:41 AM (PFy0L)

80 And that is just about all I expect from any potential GOP Senate should it happen this Fall.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:41 AM (gOoFi)

81 They're all whipped dogs. NO they're not. They are corrupt motherfuckers.

Posted by: General Theodore Nugent at April 04, 2014 06:41 AM (Cs2tJ)

82 Moving the Overton Window is why I'm a libertarian. No one will ever get elected under the Libertarian banner, but we try to persuade both parties of the merits of freedom.
***
The problem is it is easier to attack conservatives under the libertarian banner because you get support from the institutional left, even though most "fundamentalist godbag" extremist conservative is now generally more libertarian then your average liberal.

So libertarians often end up advancing the power of the state by taking the easiest approach in "criticizing both sides"...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:42 AM (78TbK)

Because the GOPe are not conservatives themselves. They make the right mouthsounds when they feel it'll get them votes, but they're not conservative. We need to get rid of them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 10:19 AM (4df7R)

Just like you really shouldn't quit your job unless you have another one lined up, I don't think getting rid of moderate republicans is a good idea until we are able to replace them with something better. And by that I mean able to convince other than conservatives to vote for conservatives. I don't want to cause the dislike of some moderate republicans to cause them to be replaced with Democrats.

Also, its impossible to prove a negative, but even though these Republicans may not have accomplished something concrete you could argue that they have many times prevented something the Democrats wanted to do.

I know this pragmatism is frowned on at aos.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 06:42 AM (m2CN7)

84 Whoa, whoa here. What is all this DrewM inspired craziness. Using the environment you find yourself in to push the things you want? That would mean coming up with new ideas and changing the way we do things. Fuck that. We know how to bitch and moan. We're good at bitching and moaning. Hell, people come from all over to see our unique style of bitching and moaning. We declare people "Dead to us now" and pray for the Sweet Meteor of Death to put us out of our misery. New ideas? Go sell that snake oil somewhere else.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 06:42 AM (u2a4R)

85 "I really can't get started on the NRA. They endorse as many bad guys as good. I used to be a member but no more. I don't need them giving my money to Harry Reid or Kirsten Gillibrand or Dipshit Pryor anymore."

Former NRA here.

And like you, I no longer saw the sense in a legislative strategy wherein NRA would endorse candidates as "supporting gun rights" when behind the scenes, those very same candidates would steadily work towards things which ultimately erode and destroy those rights (e.g., elevating radical leftists to the Supreme Court).

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 06:42 AM (noWW6)

86 All right. Same story as yesterday.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 10:30 AM (gOoFi)

You come here and expect cock-eyed optimism? This crowd could give Marviin the robot tips on despair.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 06:43 AM (hLRSq)

87 I suppose it's going to be time soon to start becoming mildly active in my local party too.

I tried that when I first moved here, and the county party made it pretty clear they do not like My Kind (unmarried women who rent the roof over their head). As if there's no difference between me and a woman in Section 8 with four kids by five men.

So fuck 'em, I've got better things to do.

Posted by: HR at April 04, 2014 06:43 AM (ZKzrr)

88 They're all whipped dogs. NO they're not. They are corrupt motherfuckers.

Posted by: General Theodore Nugent at April 04, 2014 06:43 AM (Cs2tJ)

89 You've got a point. Unfortunately It takes me eight seconds to comment, but I can't spend all day out crusading. I have to work. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 10:33 AM (chqG9) That's the advantage of the other side. Many of them don't have actual "Jobs", and many that do work for the Government which doesn't put a premium on productivity. Yeah, real people with real lives don't have time for this shit.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:43 AM (bb5+k)

90 "You will see Drew proven right in 2015 when the GOP Senate
jams it's thumb up its ass and tumbles down a flight of stairs."
***
Indeed - according to the Republican leadership the goals after the election will be Amnesty and "fixing" Obamacare.

Unless the Republican candidate makes it clear they will NOT go along with Boehner and McConnell I don't see much advantage in supporting them.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:44 AM (78TbK)

91 Interesting post, but please correct spelling errors... would make for an easier read.

Posted by: ColonelHaiku at April 04, 2014 06:44 AM (T5IAX)

92 You've got a point. Unfortunately It takes me eight seconds to comment, but I can't spend all day out crusading. I have to work.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 10:33 AM (chqG9)

Yeah - work. Perhaps I should get back to that....

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 06:45 AM (hLRSq)

93 Don't even consider a politician - unless he's for getting rid of the IRS and the Income Tax. Everything else is solved with this one issue.

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at April 04, 2014 06:45 AM (ME3z1)

Posted by: naturalfake at April 04, 2014 10:39 AM (KBvAm)

As I've quoted many times before, Conservatives are courageous but not bold and Liberals are bold but not courageous.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 06:45 AM (m2CN7)

95 Yeah - work. Perhaps I should get back to that....

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 10:45 AM (hLRSq)

The Free Shit Army is depending on you!

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 06:46 AM (DrWcr)

96 It's really not that complex. Income tax has to go.
***
Obama and Lerner gave the Republican party the perfect platform to get rid of the IRS and the income tax.

They decided to hold meaningless hearings instead.

Hell, if the Republicans had seriously even threatened the income tax we would see the Democrats suddenly at least considering what parts of the government they want to weaponize against their political opponents.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:46 AM (78TbK)

97 Time for a third (call it the "Opposition") party. Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 04, 2014 10:35 AM It's already there; it's called the Libertarian Party (or the Green Party if you're on the left)

Posted by: JJ Stone at April 04, 2014 06:46 AM (plL8t)

98 Just for the record, the GOP despised Reagan, and fought him behind closed doors on everything he wanted, except for the tax cuts. They could get behind tax cuts, because then potential donors would have more disposable income.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 06:47 AM (0Jb7F)

99 Emotional arguments are a core part of a winning strategy, and even the actual conservatives in the Republican party generally refuse to go there. Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 10:35 AM (78TbK) Emotional arguments ALWAYS beat rational arguments, often even amongst rational people. The best argument is when you can combine emotion with reason. I believe this is what they mean when they say "Winning Hearts and Minds."

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:47 AM (bb5+k)

100

The problem is it is easier to attack conservatives under the libertarian banner because you get support from the institutional left, even though most "fundamentalist godbag" extremist conservative is now generally more libertarian then your average liberal.

Yeah, but this is the kind of progress I'm talking about. In the past year both George Will and Chief Ewok have self-identified as libertarian. We haven't made any great inroads into the Left (maybe Zombie Hitchens) but it's about the ideas, patient explanation, and making people accurately observe the world. As in Obamacare.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 06:47 AM (JtwS4)

101 Posted by: HR at April 04, 2014 10:43 AM (ZKzrr) Chances your party was composed entirely of old people: High. I figure, hang on long enough for them to die, take over, push actual conservatism.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:47 AM (HDwDg)

102 We agree. Conservatives really should abandon electoral politics. You'll never win. Why not just give up now? They'll always be sites on the internet where you can shout and scream and curse when the pain of your powerlessness gets to you. But over time you'll get used to it and eventually it won't bother you that much anymore. It's called learned helplessness. The important thing is you give up now. Oh, and thank you.

Posted by: Progressive Trash Ruling Class at April 04, 2014 06:47 AM (ZPrif)

103 There's only one politician that is arguing for abolishing the IRS. Ted Cruz. How can any of the others even be considered serious candidates? As long as we have the Income Tax and the IRS - nothing CAN change. It's not possible.

Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at April 04, 2014 06:48 AM (ME3z1)

104 Emotional arguments ALWAYS beat rational arguments, often even amongst rational people. Probably why the left won't allow that Gosnell movie to be made.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 06:48 AM (chqG9)

105

Hell, if the Republicans had seriously even threatened the income tax we would see the Democrats suddenly at least considering what parts of the government they want to weaponize against their political opponents.

THIS

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 06:48 AM (0Jb7F)

106 Accidentally posted this on the Dump thread, when I meant to post it here. It's OT, but this is fucking ridiculous.

Jim Moran (D-VA): "Members of Congress are underpaid"

Roll Call: http://tinyurl.com/l64kn5d

Despite what constituents outside of Washington might think, members of Congress are underpaid, a House Legislative Branch appropriator suggested Thursday.

Virginia Democrat James P. Moran said he plans to highlight the injustice by introducing an amendment to the Legislative Branch bill during its full committee markup, and at floor consideration of the bill. Moran made the comments while the bill that funds memberÂ’s $174,000 salaries was being marked up in the Legislative Branch subcommittee.

Â“I think the American people should know that the members of Congress are underpaid,Â” Moran told CQ Roll Call. Â“I understand that itÂ’s widely felt that they underperform, but the fact is that this is the board of directors for the largest economic entity in the world.Â”

...

Â“Our pay has been frozen for three years and weÂ’re planning on freezing it a fourth year. Â… A lot of members canÂ’t even afford to live decently in Washington,Â” he said.

Hey, dickweed! Welcome to what life is like for THE REST OF THE G-DDAMN COUNTRY.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:48 AM (4df7R)

107 One thing I can think of that is does not seem to at all be in our favor is how few actual rich conservatives there are. Like someone mentioned with regard to the Clinton's desire for power in the Dump is that acquiring it takes a shit ton of money.

Same deal applies to doing something like influencing culture. It takes a shit ton of money, and our side doesn't have as much as theirs.

Posted by: [/I]KG at April 04, 2014 06:48 AM (p7BzH)

108 "You come here and expect cock-eyed optimism?" Nah. Really more rhetorical than anything else. Kind of like saying "fine" when someone asks how you're doing even though the wife is a cheating whore, the kids are on drugs, and, your dog just ran away. "Fine"

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 06:49 AM (gOoFi)

109 Yeah, real people with real lives don't have time for this shit.
***
The left is generally good at boiling the frog.

Give the middle class the choice, at an individual level of complying and giving up a little more freedom and money or fight and likely be destroyed.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

The "good" thing about some of Obama's outrages, like the IRS scandal and Obamacare is that they go well beyond their traditional incrementalism.

The problem is there is no opposition party to call them one it.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:49 AM (78TbK)

110 They endorse as many bad guys as good. I used to be a member but no more. I don't need them giving my money to Harry Reid or Kirsten Gillibrand or Dipshit Pryor anymore. Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 10:36 AM (gOoFi) I disagree with your assessment. They are doing it EXACTLY RIGHT. While I hate the idea of supporting a Democrat, if you want your issue to be universally accepted, you have to make the Democrats believe there is an advantage to supporting your position. The NRA is playing the game exactly the way it ought to be paid.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:49 AM (bb5+k)

111 Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 10:47 AM (JtwS4) Since I'm going to have to take a part time job to survive this shitty economy, I might was well spend every moment trying to open the eyes of whatever hippie coworkers I end up with.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at April 04, 2014 06:49 AM (HDwDg)

112 77 It's really not that complex. Income tax has to go. We either get rid of the the government's first claim to every penny we earn through tax laws that guarantee politicians will choose their friends as winners and others as losers.. Or we continue the downward slide toward slavery. Truth is "soft" slavery is already here. I work 2.6 days a week for my master's coffers - as do most of you. Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at April 04, 2014 10:40 AM (ME3z1) Correct, and trolls are trained to immediately stomp on this idea and claim it can never be done and then try to turn our attention to more marginal issues because shut up. The income tax is the power source.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2014 06:50 AM (AO9UG)

113 FDR buried it in the 1930s and LBJ turned it into an oligarchy of communists. We have never recovered from LBJ. Posted by: Vic at April 04, 2014 10:36 AM (T2V/1) Agreed. LBJ is the one who institutionalized bribing voters to vote for Democrats. This had the additional side effect of wrecking us financially with $21 trillion dollars having been spent on the Democrat vote buying scheme known as "The War on Poverty."

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (bb5+k)

114 "You can trust me, because I'm a True Conservative, pure and noble. Let's be honest. Romney or McCain would be even worse than Obama. Kagan and Sotomayor are Goldwater-like compared to any judges they would have put on the court!"

If RINOism were actually getting guys like Romney and McCain elected, I'd be much less hostile to RINOism, even though I wouldn't be delighted with their governance.

But it's not getting those guys elected.

So for me it's not about who has the biggest brassiest TruCon balls to loudly clank together.

No, it's about brute empiricism. Hmmmm, what we're doing now isn't working. We used to have something that worked. Maybe, just maybe, it would make sense to stop doing the things that provably don't work, and instead go back to doing the things that do work.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (noWW6)

115 Hope they packed the dirt on real tight so Ted doesn't get out....tis means more whiskey and whores for the rest of us. Off to the range to break in an old cetme...ahhhh .308 in the morning.

Posted by: IrishEd at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (D0NZx)

116 Heather, we've got to get you out to better parties.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (D9Jn5)

117 "Well, studies have shown..." Amazing how 4 simple words can nearly cause an aneurysm these days.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (xHTCV)

118 40 Chile's doing well, though. But who knows if that will last. Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 10:26 AM (naUcP) More Pinochet. Less Pinot Noir Pinocchio's.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 04, 2014 06:51 AM (CMkNk)

119 84 jwest at April 04, 2014 10:42 AM (u2a4R) Uh yeah J "throw gammie from the train" west... don't look now champ not a lot of us are behind gun control to "calm Ms West down" or you know Crony Capitalism for the R party. Thanks for playing another round of "totally missing the fucking point"

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 06:52 AM (TE35l)

120

Virginia Democrat James P. Moran said he
plans to highlight the injustice by introducing an amendment to the
Legislative Branch bill during its full committee markup, and at floor
consideration of the bill. Moran made the comments while the bill that
funds memberÂ’s $174,000 salaries was being marked up in the Legislative
Branch subcommittee.

Median income in this country is under $50K, you twit. Since you are actively undermining the economy, not adding to it, your remuneration should be considerably less than that, not four times that.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 06:52 AM (0Jb7F)

121 I think this is relevant to the debate over earmarks and foreign spending. I get the value of both, particularly foreign spending. And I am fully aware that the two are a pittance of federal spending, so even if we eliminated them entirely it would have negliable effect. But it would move the window, wouldn't it? Now if you ask the public to cut spending, the public rightly says cut earmarks and foreign spending. Remove that from the response, and maybe you will get a different response. The better response is we already have and we are still spending too much.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 06:52 AM (gmeXX)

122 Kinda silly to talk about moving the Overton window when a "fire breathing conservative" site like Ace of Spades plays host to Mavericky McModerates like Gabe Malor.

Scratch that, it's not kinda silly, it is a joke.

Posted by: ThomasD at April 04, 2014 06:52 AM (FA+FN)

123

Â“Our pay has been frozen for
three years and weÂ’re planning on freezing it a fourth year. Â… A lot of
members canÂ’t even afford to live decently in Washington,Â” he said.

---------

You'd think Moran would just call his "contributors" and ask for more bribe money to make up the difference.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 06:52 AM (PFy0L)

124 The Left is literally training us to give in to their idiocy. I've trained a few horses and a few dogs, and the first thing you learn is 'stimulus, response, reward' as pertains to applying pressure. If I'm trying to teach a horse to move to the left, I put pressure on its right side. When it moves, I release the pressure as a reward for doing what I asked for. Over time, the pressure can become lighter and lighter, until the slightest touch causes the same response, because the animal thinks that a response will cause a reward, even if the reward never happens. That's what's happening to the right. The left realized somewhere along the way, that if they just kept applying pressure, eventually the right would move, in the hopes of getting the pressure to go away. Now, thirty, fifty, eighty years later, all they have to do is hint that they'll put the screws to the GOP, and it caves like a house of cards. Except the reward never comes. We just keep hoping for it.

Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (NSh5j)

125

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 10:51 AM (noWW6)

How come everyone forgets Bush the RINO was elected twice.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (m2CN7)

126

Drew,

Your mistake is assuming a rightward shift starts in Washington. It doesnÂ’t, it ends in Washington. By the time a massive expansion of government comes up for vote, the public has already been won over and the narrative is set. You might be able to win the battle and temporarily defeat a specific bill, but you lost the war. It will eventually pass.

Once Â“47 million uninsured AmericansÂ” became a theme, largely unchallenged by the right, a massive government response was inevitable. Most voters simply wonÂ’t refuse to help someone in Â“need,Â” especially if the politicians tell them it wonÂ’t cost them a thing. ItÂ’s an easy choice.

Until Democrats are forced to back middle class tax hikes to pay for their programs, they win.

More important is the leftÂ’s dominance of culture. TheyÂ’ve created a growing and soon to be dominant single-parent culture that will REQUIRE big government. The debate will be over. Again, voters will not support limited government if they believe people are in genuine need of government support. Single-parent families need government support. Entire neighborhoods would collapse without it.

This doesnÂ’t mean political messaging and candidates donÂ’t matter. Just that they are constrained by the cultural reality that dictates politics.

Posted by: CJ at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (9KqcB)

127 Past 100, so OT: Okay, which one of you 'ettes did this: http://tinyurl.com/mh6loq8

Posted by: joncelli at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (RD7QR)

128 112 eman at April 04, 2014 10:50 AM (AO9UG) automatic withholding anyway... frankly remove auto withholding and we could finally shut the Canadians up when we showed them how Americans would burn DC to the ground after we all had to cut that nice check on 15 Apr.

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (TE35l)

129 Entropy causes all systems to break down and ultimately fail, unless there is a mechanism that enables them to renew themselves. Businesses who survive long term, do so because they adapt - renew themselves - to changed environments. Bureaucracies become ever more unwieldy and inefficient because that is their nature, unless something drastic and dramatic causes them to be renewed. There are some perfect examples out there in this country - municipal bankruptcies, for example. Russia, although an accidental beneficiary of incredible oil wealth, is another. All of these examples of renewal come with tremendous pain, and they may not always survive. But that is the only chance they have in the end.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 06:53 AM (BZAd3)

130 As recently as 2011 the OMB did not know how many agencies and programs that it has to fund. There is a partial list that is available on performance.gov. It is guestimated that there is as many as 1300 with 456 deemed major. As far as I know, no Democrat nor Republican has so much as mentioned this. (Not counting Rick Perry who could only name 2.) The behemoth that these ungoverned agencies represents is the problem. Democrat or Republican makes no difference. Neither group is serious. That is why, IMHO, the only way that things will change is if there is absolutely no money in the system. And I don't think either party is interested in the money train coming to an end.

Posted by: Usedtocould at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (Q5wIZ)

131 I still have never met a Libertarian who wasn't a creepy asshole. They aren't all sex-offenders, right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (ZPrif)

132 One Reason The Overton Window DoesnÂ’t Open For Conservatives They may not open for conservatives, but I saw Overton Window open for Glass Tiger at The Ex in 1985.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (fOLwM)

133 "Obama and Lerner gave the Republican party the perfect platform to get rid of the IRS and the income tax. They decided to hold meaningless hearings instead."

Meaningless?

I got myself lots of TV face time out of it!

Posted by: Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (noWW6)

134 And like you, I no longer saw the sense in a legislative strategy wherein NRA would endorse candidates as "supporting gun rights" when behind the scenes, those very same candidates would steadily work towards things which ultimately erode and destroy those rights (e.g., elevating radical leftists to the Supreme Court). ---- Its hard to criticize a strategy that has been so successful. I wonder how such a strategy would work for the pro-life movement (if it even would).

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (gmeXX)

135 The article has sortable spreadsheets so the Comrades can individually target and harass everyone who donated against ghey marriage. That's not satire. That's a Commie purge. Posted by: Citizen X at April 04, 2014 10:37 AM (7ObY1) And an appropriate response is to find the individuals responsible for this attempted tactic, and make certain that they are the worse for what they have attempted to do. Bankrupt them, harass them, beat them the fuck up, but make an example out of them somehow. If you do not, this will simply further encourage others to resort to the same tactic. A System MUST HAVE a form of negative feedback to provide correction to errors. Without it, it will go into wild and deadly oscillations.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (bb5+k)

136 It's one reason why I focus not just on policy changes, but also on structural changes that I think would, in Madison's words, oblige the government to control itself.

Posted by: JohnJ at April 04, 2014 06:54 AM (TF/YA)

137

You come here and expect cock-eyed optimism?

Heh heh. You said "cock."

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 06:55 AM (DrWcr)

138 Pay the president $50,000,000 a year!!!!!11!!!

Posted by: WJEST at April 04, 2014 06:55 AM (Aif/5)

139

I disagree with your assessment. They are doing it EXACTLY RIGHT.

While I hate the idea of supporting a Democrat, if you want your issue to be universally accepted, you have to make the Democrats believe there is an advantage to supporting your position.

The NRA is playing the game exactly the way it ought to be paid.

-----------

True that...there's a reason Harry Reid wasn't keen on a new AWB ban hitting the Senate floor after the Sandy Hook thing, and it wasn't because he has religion on the subject.

It's because, to paraphrase Milton Friedman, the NRA helps make a system where even bad actors are incented to do the right thing.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 06:55 AM (PFy0L)

140 Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 10:51 AM (noWW6)

How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 10:53 AM (m2CN7)

Because his father, Bush the OlderRINO, wasn't. And because the second time Bush ran, he was against fucking Horseface Kerry. And because this jackhole currently in the WH was also elected twice. And because there're more political offices in the country than just the Presidency.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 06:56 AM (4df7R)

141 Yeah, but this is the kind of progress I'm talking about.
***
Overall this is more negative then positive though, even from a libertarian perspective.

If the greater right (including libertarians) held the line on "gay marriage" for example we wouldn't see people people being destroyed by Leviathan for not wanting to bake a cake for a "gay marrage". Even if you accept "marriage equity" is a libertarian goal, it is a trivial one. The right to run your business as you like (or now make political speech) is a fundamental libertarian belief.

The right is not a serious threat to libertarianism and has not been for a *long* time. Pushing into non-libertarian conservativism is at best a waste of time for libertarians, and often a net negative.

As I've said before, a serious libertarian starts with opposition to the IRS and the federal budget...but that is hard work as the left will destroy you for being serious about it.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 06:56 AM (78TbK)

142 Â“Our pay has been frozen for
three years and weÂ’re planning on freezing it a fourth year. Â… A lot of
members canÂ’t even afford to live decently in Washington,Â” he said.

Hey, maybe you seek employment elsewhere, fuckwit.

Posted by: no good deed at April 04, 2014 06:56 AM (ILBCY)

143 Let's all take a moment to ponder WHY IT SHOULD BE SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE IN WASHINGTON.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 06:56 AM (659DL)

144 122 ThomasD at April 04, 2014 10:52 AM (FA+FN) Hey now Gabe had a very eloquent comment on the Glee Klub's fascist bent this morning.... FRIIIIDDDDAAAYYYY didn't you get his even more solid than Andi Sulli's reproach from that?

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 06:56 AM (TE35l)

145

I still have never met a Libertarian who wasn't a creepy asshole. They aren't all sex-offenders, right?

Dude, ideas please and not ad hominems. Ace has self-identified as a libertarian. (OK, bad example, he's probably a sex-offender, but an unindicted free-range sex offender).

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 06:57 AM (JtwS4)

146 The Union is terminal. In order of preference: 1. Secede. Republic of Texas. 2. Serious 10th Amendment challenge and win. 3. Constitutional Convention and hope we can prevail.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at April 04, 2014 06:57 AM (n+8FE)

147 Or we continue the downward slide toward slavery. Truth is "soft" slavery is already here. I work 2.6 days a week for my master's coffers - as do most of you. Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at April 04, 2014 10:40 AM (ME3z1) Yes, it's been sneaking in the back door for a long long time. And from the same political party!

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 06:57 AM (bb5+k)

148 Dude, ideas please and not ad hominems. Ace has self-identified as a libertarian. (OK, bad example, he's probably a sex-offender, but an unindicted free-range sex offender).

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 10:57 AM (JtwS4)

His only victim was Rubio's trash, though. El Chingabasura rides again!

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 06:58 AM (DrWcr)

149 It's because, to paraphrase Milton Friedman, the NRA helps make a system where even bad actors are incented to do the right thing. --- Perhaps other issue movements should try to implement the NRA strategy. The problem is it is a long game. But many years later, it appears to have paid off in a big way.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 06:58 AM (gmeXX)

150 "I still have never met a Libertarian who wasn't a creepy asshole."

Reagan: praises libertarians effusively, welcomes them into the big tent. Wins two huge election landslides.

Post-Reagan GOP: rudely shits down the necks of libertarians, insults and alienates them. Flounders ineffectually in elections while losing to ridiculous horny hillbillies and sleazy Chicago ward-heelers.

Gee, talking about things that work versus things that don't work...

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 06:59 AM (noWW6)

151 I've pointed this out before, but Kevin Williamson is a fantastic writer. And since Steyn is no longer writing at NRO, KW has replaced him as the best read (IMO).

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:00 AM (gmeXX)

152 Let's start our campaign to undermine and demean the leftists in this country by choosing a term with which to refer to them. For example, in my linked story about Jim Moran (see above) I should ahve referred to him as "Unindicted Co-Conspirator Jim Moran (D-VA)," because in my opinion anyone who identifies as a Demonrat is, by definition, criminally culpable for the illegal actions of their party, since corruption and illegality is endemic on the left. So from now on I shall refer to all Demonrats or other overt leftists as "Unindicted Co-Conspirators" or "UCCs" when I don't feel like typing something that long. I invite you all to join me.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:01 AM (4df7R)

153

Even if you accept "marriage equity" is a libertarian goal, it is a trivial one. The right to run your business as you like (or now make political speech) is a fundamental libertarian belief.

This. I support gay marriage as a liberty that doesn't interfere with my rights in any way, then you get these jackholes running witch hunts. Kinda ruins the sport.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:01 AM (JtwS4)

154 With internet its ridiculous that Congressmen & Senators have to be in DC. They should be required to telecommute from their home states.

Posted by: votermom at April 04, 2014 07:02 AM (GSIDW)

155 And because there're more political offices in the country than just the Presidency.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 10:56 AM (4df7R)

You mean like the 29 Republican Governors?

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 07:02 AM (m2CN7)

156 I saw it defined in Sunday school thus:

The problem with defining yourself as "I am X degree better than this person" is that, if such person is on a downward trajectory, you have shackled yourself to a sinking target and will sink as well.

The GOP has, for too long, said, "We are [a few degrees] better than the Democrats." And the Democrats have been on a downward trajectory.

Today, that distinction is without any difference--their prescriptions, policies and proposals all have the same results: The size, scope and reach of the federal government gets bigger, wider and more invasive every day.

You don't define yourself by reference to worldly things--you define yourself by principals. And the GOP has NONE.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 04, 2014 07:02 AM (VjL9S)

157 Probably why the left won't allow that Gosnell movie to be made. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 10:48 AM (chqG9) Or permit any Pro-Life visuals on television. They know they would lose the fight in an instant. Put "Silent Scream" on television and they would freak out. Of course THEY control television, so it's not going to happen.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:02 AM (bb5+k)

158 I'm a libertarian and I'm an asshole. QED

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:03 AM (xHTCV)

159 How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice.
It's seared (Seared!1!) into my brain.

Posted by: John F'in Kerry at April 04, 2014 07:03 AM (Ua6T/)

160

Posted by: TrueKaaaaaaahn! at April 04, 2014 10:37 AM (ZPrif)

Here are some bandages. Your dick must be shredded after fucking your strawman that hard.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 07:03 AM (zF6Iw)

161 And like you, I no longer saw the sense in a legislative strategy wherein NRA would endorse candidates as "supporting gun rights" when behind the scenes, those very same candidates would steadily work towards things which ultimately erode and destroy those rights (e.g., elevating radical leftists to the Supreme Court) Bingo.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 07:04 AM (gOoFi)

162 Same deal applies to doing something like influencing culture. It takes a shit ton of money, and our side doesn't have as much as theirs. Posted by: KG at April 04, 2014 10:48 AM (p7BzH) We need to WRECK the movie and entertainment industries. We need to tax the fuck out of them, encourage piracy of their products, and undercut their finances in any manner possible. Actors were scum before motion pictures. Most are still scum, but motion pictures gave them deep pockets and greater influence.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:05 AM (bb5+k)

163

How many people REALLY believe in smaller Federal Govt. ?

Think about this. If we went back to most Social Regulation, Taxing, and Spending happening at the State rather than the Fed ... could you live with it ?

Because I do not think most people can. They're just too damned nosy.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:05 AM (D9Jn5)

164 "How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice."

Bush was elected only once in his own right. The 2000 election wasn't decided in voting booths but in a courtroom. It was a jump ball that could easily have gone the other way.

And the margin Bush held over Kerry in 2004, while a legit election victory, was terrifyingly small. Fifty thousand votes in Ohio shifting would have seen Dubya evicted after one term.

Is that how the GOP now defines electoral success? From Reagan's absolutely enormous landslide victories down to these vanishingly thin margins of victory? Yay! Let's do more of that!

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 07:05 AM (noWW6)

165 OT again, but our Preezy has honestly, legitimately made the country a joke to the rest of the world.

In leaked call, Russian Ambassadors joke about invading Alaska, Miami, California

Free Beacon: http://tinyurl.com/kq4fsbk

IGOR NILOAKAEVICH CHUBAROV: Now I have a very simple task, for the time being IÂ’m saying the only key thing to those EU HoMs. IÂ’m repeating: Â“Guys, weÂ’ve taken away Crimea but itÂ’s not the fucking end. [laughter] In the future weÂ’ll take away your [laughter] fucking Catalonia, Venice, as well as Cattleland (Scotland), and Alaska. And weÂ’ll never rest content with thatÂ” [laughter].

SERGEY VIKTOROVICH BAHAREV: At first stage we will.

CHUBAROV: Agreed, only at first stage, and later weÂ’ll think it over. All those fucking limitrophes, e.g. Latvia, Estonia, and other Europeans as well as Romanians, and Bulgarians, weÂ’ll kick their asses in the right direction Â– where they have to be.

VIKTOROVICH BAHAREV: Oh no, itÂ’s better not to touch them, we are not going to kick them in. ItÂ’ll be better for us to disturb Â“Californialand,Â” Â“Miamiland,Â” that sort of desolated regions [laughter]

CHUBAROV: YouÂ’re right, thereÂ’s practically fucking 95 percent of our citizens in Â“MiamilandÂ” [laughter]

Do I think they're serious? No. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:06 AM (4df7R)

166 Also, congressmen & senators should be paid from state budgets, at rates decided by said state.

Posted by: votermom at April 04, 2014 07:06 AM (GSIDW)

167 Post-Reagan GOP: rudely shits down the necks of libertarians, insults and alienates them
***
I think it is pretty clear that his is a two way street...no?

IMO, if we could get libertarians focused on the actual largest concerns of libertarianism though I think a lot of this fight goes away.

Remember the supposed "truce" on social issues? Its time for libertarians to offer one to the right.

The libertarian movement is currently on a trajectory to get legalized drugs and gay marriage...along with an authority, crony capital state that will destroy you for opposing the governing class.

The time has come for libertarians to get serious about the real fight now or formally surrender to the left on the terms the left is offering them....

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 07:06 AM (78TbK)

168 One bad thing about the prevalence of historical ignorance is that appeals to history lose their effectiveness.

Posted by: JohnJ at April 04, 2014 07:06 AM (TF/YA)

169

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 11:05 AM (noWW6)

So when a 'RINO' is elected it doesn't really count. Got it.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 07:06 AM (m2CN7)

170 How many people REALLY believe in smaller Federal Govt. ? ---- I'll start the countoff at ONE.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:07 AM (gmeXX)

171

The 2000 election wasn't decided in voting booths but in a courtroom. It was a jump ball that could easily have gone the other way.

---------

No it wasn't. It was decided by the voters. What the SCOTUS held was that the Supreme Court of Florida and the Gore campaign couldn't recount hand-picked districts using different criteria than what was used in other districts. That holding, incidentally, was a 9-0 ruling by the SCOTUS.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:08 AM (PFy0L)

172 If the Congressional GOP isn't for smaller less intrusive government, and candidates like the Bushes, McCain and Romney are the result, then of course the GOP will never win another presidential election. So the only and obvious solution is to send more people to the Congress who support smaller government. Duh.

Posted by: MTF at April 04, 2014 07:08 AM (F58x4)

173 "I really can't get started on the NRA. They endorse as many bad guys as good. I used to be a member but no more. I don't need them giving my money to Harry Reid or Kirsten Gillibrand or Dipshit Pryor anymore." Former NRA here. And like you, I no longer saw the sense in a legislative strategy wherein NRA would endorse candidates as "supporting gun rights" when behind the scenes, those very same candidates would steadily work towards things which ultimately erode and destroy those rights (e.g., elevating radical leftists to the Supreme Court). Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 10:42 AM (noWW6) And like you guys, I also felt this way for a while regarding the NRA. However, it's time to take the purity hat off and look at the overall victories of the NRA. Were it not for the NRA and it's legal and political branches, Heller would not have happened. Nor would the recent court cases restoring 2A rights to Chicagoans, to those in Illinois, and to those gun store owners in Chicago whom Rahm Emmanuel was trying to regulate out of the neighborhoods. It was the NRA, along with local gun owners groups, who funded the lawyers, the court filings, the expert witness and testimony and got those laws overturned. Yes, I've been unhappy with Reid being given a A rating from the NRA. He HAS been supportive or at least NOT interfered with gun rights in Nevada. He has not actually advanced any legislation designed to reduce gun ownership and when he is paying lip service regarding guns to the left, he quickly backs off any REAL legislation. Why? Because he loves that A rating from the NRA. If the NRA were to take the purity stand on every politician regarding all their non conservative votes, they would support no one. Every one of our conservative politicians, including Rubio, Cruz, Paul, etc. has done SOMETHING legislatively, voted for tarp, etc. that we don't like. The NRA has to use a narrow definition regarding gun rights in the legislative support, if they start pulling support for every single candidate based on every single way the voted on things such as, say, cabbage subsidies, soon they won't be able to support anyone. The ratings given by the NRA are coveted by most politicians, except for the most crazy liberal ones. Those ratings DO help keep politicians heading in the right direction on gun rights. Water them down into meaninglessness, and one of the incentives for moderate/left democrats and republicans to vote for positive gun legislation goes out the window. And that goes for local and state candidates also, whom the NRA ranks.

Posted by: Jen at April 04, 2014 07:08 AM (IdGqX)

174 The GOP playbook - 14 different punt plays, yet curiously, no fake.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2014 07:08 AM (HLprW)

175 Democrats know how to move the needle incrementally. They didn't get govt run health care overnight. It took 100 years. They didn't get gay marriage overnight, it took 20 years. But the right never goes this route it's all or nothing. Cut taxes by 2 trillion dollars. Cut spending by 5 trillion. You'll never win this way. A better route is cut taxes by $80B. Then next year by $40B. And make the tax cuts targeted to sympathetic groups....single moms, vets, teachers, whatever. Then the next year when the left accuses you of being anti-XYZ, you say really, we just cut taxes for XYZ by an average of $800 a family, so fuck you. That's how you win the long game.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:09 AM (0LHZx)

176 How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 10:53 AM (m2CN7

Why are you trying insert facts into a political rant? Moderate Republicans cannot get elected at all, excepting Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, the GOP leadership in the Senate, the GOP leadership in the house....

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 07:09 AM (hLRSq)

177 " I wonder how such a strategy would work for the pro-life movement (if it even would)." Nope, we got way too burned by all the "pro-life" democrats folding like cheap suits during Obamacare. Those fuckers claimed to be "pro-life" yet fully supported funding abortion. They're dead to me.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:09 AM (hFL/3)

178 Is that how the GOP now defines electoral success? From Reagan's absolutely enormous landslide victories down to these vanishingly thin margins of victory?
***
If you presume the goal of the Republican party is to roll back Leviathan their strategies are perplexing.

If your presume the Republican party wants to control Leviathan and believes it could do a better job managing it, their strategies make perfect sense.

I think there is something to note in that...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 07:09 AM (78TbK)

179 "Our [clowngressional] pay has been frozen for three years and weÂ’re planning on freezing it a fourth year."

Our Betters and their sidekicks the Top Men continually tell us that there is only an eensy weensy teensy tiny amount of inflation, what they deem a "negligible" amount, so in that context, why would they need a pay rise?

Oh.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 07:10 AM (noWW6)

180 Why are you trying insert facts into a political rant? Moderate Republicans cannot get elected at all, excepting Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, the GOP leadership in the Senate, the GOP leadership in the house....

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Days of Rage Sale at the Outrage Outlet! at April 04, 2014 11:09 AM (hLRSq)

How many in the GOP leadership are still in the House and Senate because they actually do any good, rather than still being in the House and Senate because voters are lazy and pick the incumbent because the name sounds familiar?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:10 AM (4df7R)

181 "If you really want to start changing what's possible in politics, you're going to have to find and support candidates who are trying to move the electorate in your direction. Without that you'll keep getting told that the most direct path to where you want to go involves going in the opposite direction of your desired destination."...................Which for me, means NO MORE RINO votes. I am torn admittedly as there would be nothing more I would love than to give a heart F U to the dems by controlling both chambers etc. And hopefully the POTUS in 16. But am I willing to hold my nose so I can gloat? No.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 07:10 AM (igKtt)

182 I'm a libertarian and I'm an asshole. I'm JUST an asshole. Does that get me anywhere?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 07:10 AM (gOoFi)

183 BTW. I just got done clearing my driveway of a foot of global warming (yea I said I wasn't going to but my wife gave me the look so I caved) Al Gore and his minions can go eat a giant bag of dicks.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 07:12 AM (igKtt)

184

I use public toilets, and I piss on the seat

I walk around in the summertime saying "How about this heat?"

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 07:12 AM (DrWcr)

185 176 How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice. Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 10:53 AM (m2CN7 __________ He may have governed like a RINO but he most definitely campaigned like a conservative. Funny how everyone forgets that.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:12 AM (0LHZx)

186 The Donks always look at the wreckage caused by the policies and say it was due to their sales pitch (Messaging). Republicans aren't even trying to sell a product of their own, they're just trying to sell a little bit less of what the Donks are. Republicans don't even have a sales pitch to blame their failure on.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2014 07:12 AM (HLprW)

187 And like you guys, I also felt this way for a while regarding the NRA. However, it's time to take the purity hat off and look at the overall victories of the NRA. --- Good comment Jen. I certainly don't fault anyone who won't support the NRA because it may support candidates you don't want to support. But it is hard to question their strategy when looking back at the past 25 years. No issue has been so completely dominated and won as the pro 2nd A issue. The NRA shouldn't get all the credit, but they do get a lot. Would this strategy work for other single issue movements? I don't know. Gun rights may be unique. Further, the NRA benefitted from implementing this strategy at a time when the two parties were not as culturally divided. But I have often wondered if both the GOP and the pro-life movement would benefit if the pro-life movement used the same strategy as the NRA. There are big differences between the two - one there is no national pro-life group of the same backing as the NRA. But it is worth pondering.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:13 AM (gmeXX)

188 Moderate Republicans cannot get elected at all, excepting Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, the GOP leadership in the Senate, the GOP leadership in the house....
***
Did they run as moderates or as conservatives?

In fact, since Nixon, how many Republicans running on a moderate platform have won? Let's see...

Ford 76
Bush 92
Dole 96
McCain 08
Romney 12.

Bush 41 was a moderate...but he ran in 1988 as Reagan's third term. Bush 43 was also a moderate but you wouldn't have known it in 2004. The 2000 campaign as fairly muddled and largely a vote on the corruption of the Clinton years...

Posted by: 18-1 at April 04, 2014 07:13 AM (78TbK)

189 The science is settled.

Posted by: Al Goracle at April 04, 2014 07:13 AM (Aif/5)

190 @173 I understand the acute rational completely. I used to think this way as well. Soured I have.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 07:14 AM (gOoFi)

191 "But the right never goes this route it's all or nothing. Cut taxes by 2 trillion dollars. Cut spending by 5 trillion. You'll never win this way. " Hi. We've been doing incrementalism for the past 40 years.

Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 07:14 AM (hFL/3)

192 148"Dude, ideas please and not ad hominems." Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 10:57 AM (JtwS4) Do you know where you are?

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:14 AM (u2a4R)

193 People only raise serious hell when they can't find food on the grocery store shelf. That's not the case in America therefore the right only sounds shrill and paranoid. The humorous part is that any collapse will be triggered by the right regaining political control. The left has the economy boobytrapped.

Posted by: pc at April 04, 2014 07:14 AM (SVjGP)

194 inmho, I believe the tactics needed at this point would depend on best guesstimations on how long we have according to information and ideas before and economic collapse, we either take the long road get conservatives in positions form dogacatcher on up .. or we start hard shoving back, because if we don't have long What is the actual point of playing the long game and not demanding govt be fiscally responsible?

Posted by: willow at April 04, 2014 07:14 AM (nqBYe)

195 But the right never goes this route it's all or nothing. Cut taxes by 2 trillion dollars. Cut spending by 5 trillion. You'll never win this way. ---- It should be pointed out that the right did win on tax cuts to some extent. Unfortunately, we cut so many people's taxes that the strategy doesn't work on half the country.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:15 AM (gmeXX)

196 am i wrong?

Posted by: willow at April 04, 2014 07:15 AM (nqBYe)

197

One bad thing about the prevalence of historical ignorance is that appeals to history lose their effectiveness

Ugh. Please indulge me in a vent. I talk history and politics with a guy at work. He said Obama is just like Neville Chamberlain. Then he said that none of the guys in the lunch room would even know who he was.

I found that unpossible, so we asked at lunch that day. These are white collar professionals, mostly with masters degrees. No one knew.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:15 AM (JtwS4)

198 Yeah don't you know where you are? I, on the other hand, never attack anyone. I'm a benevolent tyrant that way.

Posted by: Surely You Jest at April 04, 2014 07:16 AM (Aif/5)

199 NRTL endorses anyone from either party with a pro-life voting record. The problem is that after Obamacare there are no pro-life dems to support.

Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 07:16 AM (hFL/3)

200 Posted by: Jen at April 04, 2014 11:08 AM SPOT on! Well said.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 07:16 AM (igKtt)

201 It should be pointed out that the right did win on tax cuts to some extent. Unfortunately, we cut so many people's taxes that the strategy doesn't work on half the country.
___
Its not fair that I only get $5k back on the $0 taxes I pay while that guy gets to keep almost half of his $100k salary!

Posted by: Some LIV at April 04, 2014 07:16 AM (78TbK)

202 "Bush 41 was a moderate...but he ran in 1988 as Reagan's third term."

This.

41 would never have been able to get over the finish line in a presidential general election starting from scratch in the primaries.

His son (barely) managed it, but Poppy? No way.

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (noWW6)

203 Hi. We've been doing incrementalism for the past 40 years. Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 11:14 AM (hFL/3) __________ Not really. Your stated position is BAN ABORTION EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE. That ain't incrementalism.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (0LHZx)

204 am i wrong? I think it's collapse. "When" is the operable question.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (gOoFi)

205 He said Obama is just like Neville Chamberlain. Then he said that none of the guys in the lunch room would even know who he was.
___
I loved him in Noting Hill!

Posted by: Joe Biden at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (78TbK)

206 NRTL endorses anyone from either party with a pro-life voting record. The problem is that after Obamacare there are no pro-life dems to support. ---- That is true. I also think there is a big difference between the NRTL and NRA.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (gmeXX)

207 O/T.... but the 34th State just passed a bill saying they want a Constitutional Amendment for a US Balanced Budget... That SHOULD kick off a Convention... My Guess is... /crickets....

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (84gbM)

208 20 The Establishment GOP and the pundit class always plays defense, and
tries to justify what they feel conservatism is or should be based on
the values imposed on it by the leftists.

Because the GOPe are not conservatives themselves. They make the right mouthsounds when they feel it'll get them votes, but they're not conservative. We need to get rid of them.
=============
How many of you all have gone to small events where you can meet these GOPe up close and personal?

They are not hard men. They are not men at all.

They are so fucking soft. Girly, soft spoken, weak arms and handshakes with manicured nails on hands free of callouses.

Seriously. These are not people who've had to fight for one thing their entire lives.

They would be horrified to wear a pair of blue jeans that cost less than $30.

They don't know what work is because it's been so long--if ever--that they have had to work; "physical work, back-breaking work, sweaty, joints and muscles aching the next day and get up and do it all again" WORK.

If you don't have the mental heft to do that, to force your body to keep going and get the job done, what makes you think they have the mental heft to engage in intellectual work?

Weak bodies, weak minds, WEAK men.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 04, 2014 07:17 AM (VjL9S)

209 It should be pointed out that the right did win on tax cuts to some extent. Unfortunately, we cut so many people's taxes that the strategy doesn't work on half the country. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 11:15 AM (gmeXX) ____________ That's a fair point. But eve though we won, we still lost long term. Because any time anything bad happens in the economy, what's the blame? THE BUSH TAX CUTS. It was a huge cut all at once. Had the cuts been the same amount but spread out over 4 or 5 years, I think it would have been a much better long term win for lower taxes.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:18 AM (0LHZx)

210 Without that you'll keep getting told that the most direct path to where you want to go involves going in the opposite direction of your desired destination.

Posted by: DrewM. at 10:09 AM

That's it, from now on we'll do The Opposite!

Posted by: George Costanza at April 04, 2014 07:19 AM (aTXUx)

211 197
One bad thing about the prevalence of historical ignorance is that appeals to history lose their effectiveness

Ugh. Please indulge me in a vent. I talk history and politics with a guy at work. He said Obama is just like Neville Chamberlain. Then he said that none of the guys in the lunch room would even know who he was.

I found that unpossible, so we asked at lunch that day. These are white collar professionals, mostly with masters degrees. No one knew.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:15 AM (JtwS4)

These days, graduating from college means you know about as much history and geography as a high school sophomore from 1972.

Why? I don't know. But we are inundated by LIVs and LINVs (non voting). They're not even CURIOUS enough about history to watch the History Channel (well maybe Pawn Stars).

Posted by: Sphynx at April 04, 2014 07:19 AM (OZmbA)

212 "One bad thing about the prevalence of historical ignorance is that appeals to history lose their effectiveness"

I think that you can still get traction with historical analogies when and if there is adequate time to explain them. (Which in the modern frenetic sound-bite, news-cycle political world there often is not.)

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 07:19 AM (noWW6)

213 151 I've pointed this out before, but Kevin Williamson is a fantastic writer. And since Steyn is no longer writing at NRO, KW has replaced him as the best read (IMO). Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 11:00 AM (gmeXX) Agreed. Everything i've seen from Kevin Williamson was first class.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:19 AM (bb5+k)

214 These are white collar professionals, mostly with masters degrees. No one knew. At least they didn't say "The chubby kid from Harry Potter."

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 04, 2014 07:20 AM (fOLwM)

215 "Not really. Your stated position is BAN ABORTION EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE. That ain't incrementalism." What do you call waiting periods, parental notification, 20 week abortion bans ect. ect. ect.? That's incrementalism. The stated pro-life position of nearly every pro-life politician in America is "Overturn Roe and leave it to the states to decide." Try again.

Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 07:20 AM (hFL/3)

216 R - Lies, steals, fails, looks bad.
D - Lies, steals, fails, tells you it looks cool.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:20 AM (DL2i+)

217 Because I don't go to World News Daily frequently enough to be sure one way or the other if it's a quality news source, but their current story about the woman killed by Capitol police last October is just so FRUSTRATING.

New revelations about mom killed by Capitol cops in October 2013

WND: http://tinyurl.com/n94dmyk

WASHINGTON Â— First they called her a terrorist threat.

When she turned out to be an unarmed suburban mother, they said she was on drugs.

Now, WND has exclusively learned, without a trace of doubt, that was wrong, too.

WND can also now report Miriam Carey was shot in the back of the head by U.S. Capitol Police officers and uniformed Secret Service agents six months ago, on Oct. 3, 2013.

The official police investigation still has not been released. But Carey family attorney Eric Sanders obtained the toxicology and autopsy report on this macabre anniversary.

The report showed there were no drugs in CareyÂ’s system, prescription or otherwise, when she was shot dead.

The report was prepared by Dr. Nikki Mourtzinos of the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the District of Columbia.

After the terror threat was discarded, the media had tried to portray Carey as mentally unbalanced, citing prescription medications she was reportedly taking.

Sanders spoke to WND at the Garfield traffic circle, on the edge of the West Lawn of the U.S. Capitol, which is where the Carey family believes Miriam was fatally wounded before driving a few blocks farther.

And Sanders believes the autopsy report provided the evidence proving that theory, because it showed that Carey was severely wounded in the back of the head. Sanders suspects that was the fatal shot, but adrenaline allowed Carey to drive to Maryland Ave. and Second St., where her car crashed at a Capitol Police guard shack.

The report said Carey was shot numerous times but did not specify exactly how many.

...

Columnist Mark Steyn memorably remarked, Â“Ms. Carey does not appear to be guilty of any act other than a panic attack,Â” and, Â“We are told Ms. Carey was Â‘mentally ill,Â’ although she had no medications in her vehicle and those at her home back in Connecticut are sufficiently routine as to put millions of other Americans in the category of legitimate target.Â”...

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:20 AM (4df7R)

218 Its not fair that I only get $5k back on the $0 taxes I pay while that guy gets to keep almost half of his $100k salary! Posted by: Some LIV at April 04, 2014 11:16 AM (78TbK) ____________ Exactly. And that's why the GOP has to figure out a way to make this LIV happy when he thinks about tax cuts. As someone else mentioned, Bush went too far and made the LIV pay $0 in taxes, which makes the LIV vote for more spending. It's a fine needle to thread and unfortunately nobody in the GOP can think outside the box of "cut taxes to help job creators" sound bites.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:20 AM (0LHZx)

219 Not really. Your stated position is BAN ABORTION EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE. That ain't incrementalism.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:17 AM (0LHZx)

False.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:21 AM (4df7R)

220 He said Obama is just like Neville Chamberlain. Then he said that none of the guys in the lunch room would even know who he was. I found that unpossible, so we asked at lunch that day. These are white collar professionals, mostly with masters degrees. No one knew. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:15 AM (JtwS4) *head------>desk* *head------>desk* *head------>desk* *head------>desk* *head------>desk* *head------>desk*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:21 AM (m5yRg)

221

Republicans went moderate after Goldwater got his ass kicked. They thought it was because he was too conservative-libertarian. They didn't recognize that he was running against JFK's halo and girls with daisies, so they repudiated the ideas.

Ever see the speech Reagan gave in support of Goldwater? It's a classic, every word of it applies today. It's straight up liberty and limited government, argued persuasively.

But Barry AuH20 lost, so we got Nixon, Ford, Dole...

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:22 AM (JtwS4)

222 He may have governed like a RINO but he most definitely campaigned like a conservative. Funny how everyone forgets that.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:12 AM (0LHZx)

Opposite of the facts from you as always. He campaigned on the dreaded 'compassionate conservatism' , immigration reform, education reform and tax cuts.

He began his administration by two tax cuts, withdrawing us from the ABM treaty, reversing business crushing EOs from Clinton, relaxing unnecessary enviromental rules to help business and was fighting for social security reform when 9/11 hit. That changed everything in regard to what he had to compromise to continue the 'war of terrorism'.

Posted by: polynikes at April 04, 2014 07:22 AM (m2CN7)

223 MWR, re Russian officials, We have become a non-serious country , every move these days is to minimize our strength and destroy a cohesive society, we are a nation of dopes that think having free BC is more important than defending our sovereignity. Why shouldn't The Russians laugh at us? i do , although somewhat hysterically.

Posted by: willow at April 04, 2014 07:22 AM (nqBYe)

224 Yup.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at April 04, 2014 07:23 AM (zDsvJ)

225 That's a fair point. But eve though we won, we still lost long term. ---- I think it gets to what KW, Ace and pretty much everyone on this board understands. The American public dislikes taxes (except for those richer than them) and loves spending. Both parties won in that regard. There is no cognitive dissonance when you have an unlimited credit card.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:23 AM (gmeXX)

226 Drew is right about the left's incremental approach. Say what you will about the bastards but their patience has paid off for them most of the time. Look at how they do school funding. Stop me if you've heard this one before. "It's only an average increase of 140.00 per year". Well we've "it's only"ed ourselves into oblivion. And now they have got people at the trough and addicted to uncle sugar. So we need to do this like a nicotine patch vs. cold turkey. Do it in steps like the left did, only in reverse. People will eventually realize that the stuff they thought had to be done by uncle sugar doesn't and that they'll be o.k.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 07:23 AM (igKtt)

227 Neville Chamberlain...he played for the 76ers right?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:23 AM (0LHZx)

228 These days, graduating from college means you know about as much history and geography as a high school sophomore from 1972.Why? I don't know. But we are inundated by LIVs and LINVs (non voting). They're not even CURIOUS enough about history to watch the History Channel (well maybe Pawn Stars). Mr. Rogers' Kids don't need to know any history. They've been told they're so special, they already are the smartest, most unique little snowflakes evah. In fact, Mr. Rogers' Kids don't need to know anything about anything.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 07:23 AM (0HooB)

229 How about we go for the BAN THE MURDER OF VIABLE, UNBORN KIDS except in the narrowest and rarest of circumstances?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 07:24 AM (659DL)

230 Or did I just say some trigger words?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 07:25 AM (659DL)

231 226 Drew is right about the left's incremental approach. Say what you will about the bastards but their patience has paid off for them most of the time. Look at how they do school funding. Stop me if you've heard this one before. "It's only an average increase of 140.00 per year". Well we've "it's only"ed ourselves into oblivion. And now they have got people at the trough and addicted to uncle sugar. Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 11:23 AM (igKtt) __________ UGHHHH!! A few years ago I lived in county that votes consitently 70% Republican. There was a ballot measure to raise property taxes for education. And it was **ONLY** an extra $17 per $100,000 of home value. Fucker passed with 80%. Even in the deepest red areas, this type of sales pitch by liberals is effective.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:25 AM (0LHZx)

232 "229 How about we go for the BAN THE MURDER OF VIABLE, UNBORN KIDS except in the narrowest and rarest of circumstances? " That's currently what we're doing. 20 week abortion bans are the current legislative push around the country.

Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 07:26 AM (hFL/3)

233 Congressmen: $500,000/year base salary. $500,000 bonus if a budget is passed on time that limits overall spending to 18% of GDP. NetJets hours in a light jet proportional to the distance to their districts, minimum of 20 hours/month. $5,000/month housing allowance. Senators: $750,000/year base salary. $750,000 bonus if a budget is passed on time that limits overall spending to 18% of GDP. NetJets hours in medium jet proportional to the distance to their states. 20 hours per month minimum. VP: $2,000,000/year base President: $4,000,000/year base. Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:26 AM (u2a4R)

234 I still have never met a Libertarian who wasn't a creepy asshole. They aren't all sex-offenders, right? Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 04, 2014 10:54 AM (ZPrif) I'm sure there are a few who haven't been convicted yet. But seriously, I always tell people that my political leanings are libertarian, but not Libertarian.

Posted by: mugiwara at April 04, 2014 07:27 AM (945hN)

235
#CloseTheGap

#OpportunityForAll

#MakingLifeWork

Woof. That was a tough year's work. What say we knock off early for nachos and a pail of Coronas at Chili's?

Posted by: The Republican Party

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2014 07:27 AM (kdS6q)

236 Whoa there pilgrim, looks like jwest done gone and went full retard. Only I'm allowed to do that pilgrim.

Posted by: Sheriff Joe at April 04, 2014 07:27 AM (Aif/5)

237 "Republicans went moderate after Goldwater got his ass kicked. They thought it was because he was too conservative-libertarian. They didn't recognize that he was running against JFK's halo and girls with daisies, so they repudiated the ideas."

Squarely on the mark.

Goldwater lost because by 1964, circumstances had made LBJ politically invulnerable.

Nixon won because by 1968, circumstances had made LBJ politically radioactive.

(And the toxic taint carried over onto LBJ's intended successor.)

Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 07:27 AM (noWW6)

238 This. I support gay marriage as a liberty that doesn't interfere with my rights in any way, then you get these jackholes running witch hunts. Kinda ruins the sport. Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:01 AM (JtwS4) The problem with Libertarians is they have no conception of a future society. You do not see how "gay" marriage interferes with other people's rights, because the effect is wide and dispersed. It is out of focus for myopic short sighted people. It undermines the entire concept of marriage. It sets as equal whatever buttfuckery perverts want to engage in. The value to society of buttfucking perverts most of whom do not give two shits about marriage is of no consequence compared to the value to society of productive married couples having children. A society cannot exist without the latter, and it will not exist for long if you allow the former. "Gay Marriage" It is just another termite bite for the foundation of a functional civilization.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:28 AM (bb5+k)

239 "Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget." It would make much more sense to make their base salary 50K.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:28 AM (hFL/3)

240 Even in the deepest red areas, this type of sales pitch by liberals is effective. ---- This is true, but I'm noticing in Texas that this is getting harder to do. Last election, a lot of education and park bonds failed (not all of them), and those that passed passed by small margins. I interpreted that as a good sign. I think in the past school boards just assumed any school related bond would pass relatively easy. I'm not sure that is the case anymore ... in Texas.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:28 AM (gmeXX)

241 That's currently what we're doing. 20 week abortion bans are the current legislative push around the country. My point being that I am tired of the killing of millions of kids being couched in PC ways.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 07:28 AM (659DL)

242 228 These days, graduating from college means you know about as much history and geography as a high school sophomore from 1972. Less. Way, less. Mr. Rogers' Kids No. Shit.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:29 AM (m5yRg)

243 One side sees rejection by the public as a temporary obstacle to be overcome and the other simply turns tail and never try again. -DrewM Isn't that essentially the story of the republican party?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:29 AM (HVff2)

244

Not really. Your stated position is BAN ABORTION EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE. That ain't incrementalism.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:17 AM (0LHZx)

You can't possibly be that dumb.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 07:29 AM (zF6Iw)

245 Woof. That was a tough year's work. What say we knock off early for nachos and a pail of Coronas at Chili's?

Posted by: The Republican Party
___
Ha ha...very funny Biff.

You know we've got a 7 PM table at Le French Bistro for that meeting with the Archer Midlands Daniels lobbyist. Coronas? Bah. What is the most expensive wine on the menu?

Posted by: The Real Republican Leadership at April 04, 2014 07:29 AM (78TbK)

246 "My point being that I am tired of the killing of millions of kids being couched in PC ways." Agree 100%. And, of course, that language is only used around abortion. When was the last time you went to "Fetus Shower"?

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:30 AM (hFL/3)

247 I have a simple proposal for Social Security. Instead of treating it as a virtual perpetuity, convert it to a fixed annuity.

It should pay out for a fixed number of years after retirement, based on mean life spans. It starts paying out at 65 and pays out until age 80. After age 80, you can go back to work or live off your savings. As a GenXers, I'm a little tired of sending up my taxes to the wealthiest age demographic.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 04, 2014 07:31 AM (Ec6wH)

248

UGHHHH!! A few years ago I lived in county that votes consitently 70% Republican. There was a ballot measure to raise property taxes for education. And it was **ONLY** an extra $17 per $100,000 of home value. Fucker passed with 80%.

Even in the deepest red areas, this type of sales pitch by liberals is effective.

-------

I've got that beat.

In Fairfax County, VA, right after the housing bubble burst and home values were dropping precipitously (along with the rest of the economy), the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors raised property tax rates, so they collected a higher percentage on a dropping base.

They sold it as saying "hey, we know the economy is tough, but you can rest assured that you won't have to pay more in property taxes this year than you did last year when the economy was better."

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:31 AM (PFy0L)

249 (And the toxic taint carried over onto LBJ's intended successor.) Posted by: torquewrench at April 04, 2014 11:27 AM (noWW6) I'm not so sure about that. Sirhan Sirhan kind of fucked it up for the donks.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:31 AM (HVff2)

250 Last election, a lot of education and park bonds failed (not all of them), and those that passed passed by small margins. I interpreted that as a good sign. I think in the past school boards just assumed any school related bond would pass relatively easy. I'm not sure that is the case anymore ... in Texas. Two years ago, a half-cent skool tax that had been in effect for four years in my county, was voted down. Now that's the type of progress I can support.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 07:31 AM (0HooB)

251 What is the most expensive wine on the menu? Posted by: The Real Republican Leadership at April 04, 2014 11:29 AM (78TbK) ---- Waaahhhhh... midterms are coming up....

Posted by: fixerupper at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (nELVU)

252

You can't possibly be that dumb.

----------

Oh, yes, yes he can. Dumber even.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (PFy0L)

253

Keep in mind that the spending cuts that realistically HAVE to be embraced are those related to meidcare/medicaid and Social Security. The other things in the budget do have to be kept in check...but arent really the problem. Its such a small part of the budget comparitively that it basically doesn't matter right now. The other things are what will eat the budget if left alone.

Now...if you want to fight on that front then the Republicans have to do it differently. They have to change the game. They should immediately make it Republican gospel to:

- never speak in baseline budgeting terms again. Talk real dollars. If a program gets more money next year then its an increase. If it stays the same it is NOT A CUT.

- force programs to justify any increase in budget. Before a government program gets a DIME more then last year they must 1. PROVE they need it (show us why and how much) and 2. Prove they can't get leaner first (produce an audit and show us why your program hasnt trimmed waste and fat BEFORE requesting more dollars).

- Develop a solid narrative. For example get all Republican to have message discipline to say:

------ "This program just fine last years with these dollar amounts. What has changed to make them need more?"

------ "No program deserves a raise unless they can show they earn it."

------"The people in this country get performance reviews before they get raises...why should a government program be any different."

----- "It should not be hard for a billion dollar government program to prove it deserves a billion dollars."

This is REPUBLICAN POPULISM that WILL SELL. They just don't try.

Posted by: Chris at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (kyeFg)

254 Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 11:28 AM (gmeXX) This past Tuesday, we elected two tea party endorsed candidates to the school board and got rid of a union hack that's been in there forever. Also, the unions backed ten people for alderman races, and only three won. This is a good sign. I'm in a county that went for Obama in the last two elections, and did not swing for Walker in the recall.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (oMKp3)

255 Ever see the speech Reagan gave in support of Goldwater? It's a classic, every word of it applies today. It's straight up liberty and limited government, argued persuasively.

But Barry AuH20 lost, so we got Nixon, Ford, Dole...

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:22 AM (JtwS4)

AuH2O just wasn't a good campaigner compared to Reagan. Ronnie had been demonized every fucking step of the way by the libs and the MFM and was trailing Carter in the polls badly until the debates, where he kicked Adultery of the Heart's nads up into his body cavity on the way to a reversal in popularity and a landslide victory. Unfortunately you can't quantify subjective evaluations like that but you can certainly see evidence of them.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (Pluhu)

256 Hey now Gabe had a very eloquent comment on the Glee Klub's fascist bent this morning.... Silence is acquiescence. My...tolerance...wears thin.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 07:32 AM (naUcP)

257 Also, the unions backed ten people for alderman races, and only three won. This is a good sign. I'm in a county that went for Obama in the last two elections, and did not swing for Walker in the recall. Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 11:32 AM (oMKp3) You go girl, best wishes from SNOWY Chippewa County

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:33 AM (HVff2)

258

All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command.

I've done it before, and I'll do it again.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:34 AM (D9Jn5)

259 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants?

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (61/Y4)

260 Whoa there pilgrim, looks like jwest done gone and went full retard. Only I'm allowed to do that pilgrim.

Posted by: Sheriff Joe at April 04, 2014 11:27 AM (Aif/5)

He's gripping hard because Moo Moo is showing him how a true troll works. It's kind of sad, really...

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (Pluhu)

261 This past Tuesday, we elected two tea party endorsed candidates to the school board and got rid of a union hack that's been in there forever. ---- I think the public education crowd is actually in some trouble. You can only tax people so much. My guess is they have actually reached a tipping point of sorts.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (gmeXX)

262 How come everyone forgets Bush the RINOwas elected twice.

How come you ignore how fed up the right is with RINOs?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (DL2i+)

263 258 All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command. Because what we're doing right now is working so well.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (u2a4R)

264 >>259 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants?

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 04, 2014 11:35 AM (61/Y4)<<

Got my vote.

Posted by: Sphynx at April 04, 2014 07:35 AM (OZmbA)

265 Speaking of the Overton Window, Did y'all see Nabisco's bullshit commercial that has two gay dads and then a biracial family and a single dad or something? The tagline? "Wholesome" Then they did another bullshit commercial about spelling "love" out of the negative comments they got. See, they're just all about love and wholesomeness and gay marriage is just like interracial marriage and all the world needs is love and blah blah fucking blah.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:36 AM (hFL/3)

266 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 04, 2014 11:35 AM (61/Y4) ---- Whoa.... almost passed out from lack of blood for a moment....

Posted by: fixerupper at April 04, 2014 07:36 AM (nELVU)

267 Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:26 AM (u2a4R)
Couple months, tops.

Posted by: trillion dollar coin at April 04, 2014 07:36 AM (Ua6T/)

268 Local taxes in "red states?" I've got one. Altho a generic property tax incr (for general operating funds) was defeated last Fall, another tax was renewed ( it was set to end). This one was for performing arts. We have TWO large universities a couple of miles apart, EACH one if which has great, award- winning performing arts programs. There is no need for "community theater" supported by tax dollars. SMH

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at April 04, 2014 07:36 AM (zDsvJ)

269 Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 11:28 AM (bb5+k) No... its pretty simple.... speaking for myself here... Libertarians don't believe that there is an entity named 'society'... or 'the State'... People have Rights.... its not a collective thing... and the collective should not be able to take those rights away because how they express their freedom is unpopular. Anytime anyone says "society should"... or the 'its in the States interest to'... its an attempt to push the blame for THEIR control of others, onto something which cannot be held accountable. The simple fact is... that the current balance of power between a person, and the State, is totally on the side of the State... Hell.... 4 liberal Supreme Court justices just argued that Freedom of Speech stems from the need for COLLECTIVE political speech in order to support Democracy.... saying that therefore the State CAN put limits on speech, when the State feels it is not in the best interest of the state... (when you read between the lines of their dissent).... That view is ONE vote short of destroying the idea that a Right is for the individual.... THAT is what us libertarians are fighting...

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (84gbM)

270 I think the public education crowd is actually in some trouble. You can only tax people so much. My guess is they have actually reached a tipping point of sorts. Just as war is nature's way of teaching geography, an economic downturn teaches about personal finances.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (0HooB)

271 I'm probably more optimistic than many on this board. I see big changes at the local level, which I think will percolate up to the federal level in time. Of course, I'm in Texas and my perspective may be different from others (i.e., those who live in Fairfax county).

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (gmeXX)

272 Via twitchy for .link, my tweet: Lynching site OkCupid forces people to use homophobic JavaScript!

Posted by: votermom at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (GSIDW)

273 "All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command. Because what we're doing right now is working so well." Texas politicians make 7K/year and we have a balanced budget and a rainy day fund.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (hFL/3)

274 I've spent most of my life on university campuses, and all I see practically 24/7 is Liberal/Leftists pushing their message . E.g., like clockwork there's a guy pushing Marxist/Leninist papers in everyone's hands everyday at the student center.

You might say, oh, that doesn't make a dent--he makes no converts. Well, it might be true he makes no converts, but : His constant presence normalizes those ideas and makes them seem less foreign, esp. to people who decide to pass their eyes over the sheet and passively absorb those ideas. His presence pulls the center to the Left merely by making a farther Left point publicly viable.

In contrast, conservatives have no public face--it's easy-peasy to demonize people with no public face as not caring about anything.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at April 04, 2014 07:37 AM (8VYsv)

275 Jwest, members of congress make six figures per month under the table right now, they could care less about bonuses.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 07:38 AM (0Jb7F)

276

What I am about to do, I do not do lightly ...

GENTLEMEN, READY DICKS !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:38 AM (D9Jn5)

277 Interracial marriage has nothing to do with ssm. That's the most offensive part about that honeymaid graham crackers ads.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at April 04, 2014 07:38 AM (zDsvJ)

278 VP: $2,000,000/year base President: $4,000,000/year base. Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:26 AM (u2a4R) *stares at monitor in disbelief*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:38 AM (m5yRg)

279 Remember when the GOP was going to try to cut the budget by $100B and Rand Paul said okay, let's go for $250B? That was an attempt to move the Overton Window. By setting that as the upper bound it would have made the $100B more likely. But instead, the GOP leadership attacked Paul, called him a crazy, and then said, yeah, by $100B we mean prorated to $66B, and by that we really mean $30B, and by that we really mean we are raising it by $3M.

Posted by: blaster at April 04, 2014 07:38 AM (4+AaH)

280 He may have governed like a RINO but he most definitely campaigned like a conservative. Funny how everyone forgets that. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:12 AM (0LHZx) And once more I find myself in agreement with you. Either you're not the asshole troll everyone says you are, or i'm one too and don't realize it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:39 AM (bb5+k)

281

All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command.

---------

They should be paid with $25k vouchers.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:39 AM (PFy0L)

282 GENTLEMEN, READY DICKS !!! Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 11:38 AM (D9Jn5) Pants off, or is half-mast OK?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:40 AM (m5yRg)

283 Speakin' of commercials....can someone explain to me why Sprint's Framily commercial has a hamster as the 'father'?

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:40 AM (bCEmE)

284 Dems win because they understand human nature (if you give a man a fish, he'll demand a bigger one tomorrow), and they leverage that. Republicans may recognize what is best for the country (if everyone learns to fish, then everyone will have plenty to eat), but fail to adapt their goals to the friction of human nature (if you are going to give me a fish, why the hell should I take my free time to learn to fish).

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 07:40 AM (BZAd3)

285 278 VP: $2,000,000/year base President: $4,000,000/year base. Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:26 AM (u2a4R) What the fuck is wrong with you. You really need some serious couch time. You're a sick puppy.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:40 AM (HVff2)

286 281 All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command. --------- They should be paid with $25k vouchers. Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 11:39 AM (PFy0L) I am quite willing to pay politicians more.... as soon as they have to abide by the same exact laws WE all do.

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 04, 2014 07:40 AM (84gbM)

287

258
All I know is, if jwest continues this "pay politicians more" bullshit, I'm going to issue the "pound dicks" command.

Because what we're doing right now is working so well.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:35 AM (u2a4R)

And you still haven't explained how giving more money to ambulatory lobotomies like Biden and Jackson-Lee would produce better governance. All you're doing is insisting - with no evidence - that a higher rate of pay will encourage the DC clowns to become better stewards of the economy.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (SjUPQ)

288 They should be paid with $25k vouchers. Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 11:39 AM (PFy0L) ---- And move the capitol to Detroit.....

Posted by: fixerupper at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (nELVU)

289 276. GENTLEMEN, READY DICKS !!! Sorry, too late Did you miss the Sarah Palin/yoga pants comment?

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (61/Y4)

290 Hi. We've been doing incrementalism for the past 40 years. Posted by: The American Pro-life Movement at April 04, 2014 11:14 AM (hFL/3) And the Pro-life movement is slowly winning. More and more abortion clinics are closing every year. One of the logistical problems of the Pro-abortion side is that they are killing off their second generations.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (bb5+k)

291 I think the public education crowd is actually in some trouble. You can only tax people so much. My guess is they have actually reached a tipping point of sorts. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 11:35 AM (gmeXX) ________ I hope you're right. But I have yet to see it happen anywhere I've lived. Anytime someone says FOR THE CHILDREN it's as if everyone's brain turns off and instinctively reaches into their pocket to give money away.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (0LHZx)

292 I wish jwest was a high level DNC advisor because I would love to see the dems make as big a deal out of this in an election year as he is.

Posted by: Adam at April 04, 2014 07:41 AM (Aif/5)

293 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? Sounds legit.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (lwkv9)

294

So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants?

Oh, for fuck's sake. There goes my afternoon.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (JtwS4)

295 Let's put the "servce" back in public service. Pay them less, not more.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (xHTCV)

296 Hence, let it burn.

Posted by: Buddha at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (s/sIv)

297 Assume your best firing position 98Z. Wait for my command.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (D9Jn5)

298 282 GENTLEMEN, READY DICKS !!!
Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 11:38 AM (D9Jn5)

Pants off, or is half-mast OK?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 11:40 AM (m5yRg)

I'll salute 'em either way!

Posted by: Bawney Fwank at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (OZmbA)

299 Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 11:40 AM (BZAd3) Dems are winning because we no longer SHAME those who take the fish... The weak now use their very weakness, to bully the Strong.... because the strong have been trained not to fight back at all.

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (84gbM)

300 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:41 AM (0LHZx) Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. Wow, twice in one thread. Awesome

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:42 AM (HVff2)

301 Either you're not the asshole troll everyone says you are, or i'm one too and don't realize it. Broken clock, blind squirrel, etc.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (naUcP)

302 I have a strategy. Want to hear it? Studies show that the most reliable group to vote Republican are married people who go to church. So set up some blind dates for your single friends, and invite them to Sunday services. There ya go.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (oMKp3)

303 Speakin' of commercials....can someone explain to me why Sprint's Framily commercial has a hamster as the 'father'? I thought it was the mother that was the hamster. The father merely smelled of elderberries.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (0HooB)

304 Also, congressmen & senators and their staffs should be paid from state or district budgets, at rates decided by said state.
Posted by: votermom

tweaked ify

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (DL2i+)

305 Either you're not the asshole troll everyone says you are, or i'm one too and don't realize it. Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 11:39 AM (bb5+k) ______ I can be an asshole, no doubt about it. A troll? Not at all. Except people accuse someone of being a troll when they question their deeply held beliefs, which I often do.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (0LHZx)

306

GENTLEMEN, READY DICKS !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 11:38 AM (D9Jn5)

DICK READY!

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (DrWcr)

307 Not really. Your stated position is BAN ABORTION EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE. That ain't incrementalism. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:17 AM (0LHZx) The NRA position is NO GUN CONTROL ANYWHERE. They are just fighting it a piece at a time. Incrementally, you know.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (bb5+k)

308 I thought it was the mother that was the hamster. The father merely smelled of elderberries. Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at April 04, 2014 11:43 AM (0HooB) LOL!

Posted by: Tami [/i][/b][/u][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:43 AM (bCEmE)

309 293 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants?

At the very least, people who follow the GOP would agonize about any other problems one hell of a lot less.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (BZAd3)

310 231 Even in the deepest red areas, this type of sales pitch by liberals is effective.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:25 AM (0LHZx)

The last time they did that here they tried to pass a bond referendum here to be paid off using a 2 cent sales tax increase. It was defeated in the general election by a 2 to 1 ratio. So what did they do? two months later they held a "special election" just for the bond referendum and they gave all county workers the day off so they could vote. It was passed with a 2 to 1 ration with less than a thousand people voting in a county with 70,000 people.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (T2V/1)

311 285 278 VP: $2,000,000/year base President: $4,000,000/year base. Use these numbers and see how fast you get a balanced budget. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:26 AM (u2a4R) Without getting into specifics, I know of CEOs receiving excess of eight times that figure in bonuses who ran their company badly and lost market share.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (qad38)

312 "And you still haven't explained how giving more money to ambulatory lobotomies like Biden and Jackson-Lee would produce better governance. All you're doing is insisting - with no evidence - that a higher rate of pay will encourage the DC clowns to become better stewards of the economy." Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 11:41 AM (SjUPQ) I'm relying on centuries of human nature that says people act in their own best interest. Also, if the compensation is right, you might see a whole new crop of people running for office.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (u2a4R)

313 Bah! Work is sucking today. They pretend to pay me, I pretend to work. NOW, they want me to actually work. WTF? When does the actual pay start?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (lwkv9)

314

I am quite willing to pay politicians more.... as soon as they have to abide by the same exact laws WE all do.

----------

I actually like the idea of paying politicians the median wage of the country.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:44 AM (PFy0L)

315 309 293 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? At the very least, people who follow the GOP would agonize about any other problems one hell of a lot less. Can we get Camel's Towing Service as an official sponsor?

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 07:45 AM (xHTCV)

316 I hope you're right. But I have yet to see it happen anywhere I've lived. Anytime someone says FOR THE CHILDREN it's as if everyone's brain turns off and instinctively reaches into their pocket to give money away.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:41 AM (0LHZx)

In the middle of economic Armageddon I still see lots of houses with lawn signs supporting the next rape of property owners for the benefit of public extended daycare and indoctrination centers and job corp for deadbeats.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (Pluhu)

317 Either you're not the asshole troll everyone says you are, or i'm one too and don't realize it.

Like everyone, Moo Moo says smart things sometimes, but really boneheaded, bigoted, senseless strawman things other times. The former is why i don't call him a troll and generally welcome his input to a conversation; the latter is why I DO consider him a mincing asshat.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (4df7R)

318 "I actually like the idea of paying politicians the median wage of the country." Now that's perfect. Give them lots of incentive to not screw up the economy.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (hFL/3)

319 Troll: Anyone who doesn't agree with me 100% of the time.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (0LHZx)

320

See, I knew Ace is no conservative! Mike Castle knew it first, though.

Posted by: Born Free at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (xL8Hf)

321

I thought it was the mother that was the hamster.

The father merely smelled of elderberries.

----------

You silly k-nigget!

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2014 07:46 AM (PFy0L)

322 I'm relying on centuries of human nature that says people act in their own best interest. Also, if the compensation is right, you might see a whole new crop of people running for office.
7,100,000 have signed up for Obama Care!!

Posted by: Smoke & Mirrors at April 04, 2014 07:47 AM (Ua6T/)

323 Is Jwest on meth and no one told me? Or is he/she a sock and it's supposed to be funny? What does pay have to do with a balanced budget? And what is his theory... more money brings in a better caliber POS?

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:47 AM (A98Xu)

324 I don't think its Tru-Con to expect that Ryan should not fuck over the veterans when kissing Patty Murray. Of all the millions of programs and shit the government does, he's OK stabbing the vets in the back to save a few bucks. Fuck that guy in particular. I used to love him, but he crossed a once-sacred Republican line; no fucking the troops/vets. That is the Dem's specialty.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at April 04, 2014 07:47 AM (9Bdcz)

325 The socons are what are killing us, if we could purge a large plurality of the party we would win elections. Genius!

Posted by: Cow Shit at April 04, 2014 07:47 AM (Aif/5)

326

The Granny Killer has returned.

GENTLEMEN ... POUND DICKS !!! POUND LIKE YOUR WALLETS AND YOUR GRANNIES LIVES DEPEND ON IT !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:47 AM (D9Jn5)

327 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? Well, not entirely, but a hella good start !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (gUoN4)

328 Paying politicians a lot of money might be beneficial. If you're making $1M a year already, there's less incentive for you to take $1M of bribes from lobbyists.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (0LHZx)

329 In the closing days of the open enrollment period for the Affordable Care Act (ACA) , the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) was mailing out letters notifying certain Americans that they had already started a healthcare coverage application on their behalf.

The HHS letter stated that the information they used to begin the application for individual Healthcare was obtain by the state agency in charge of implementing Obamacare.

The next step for the individual would be visit Healthcare.gov and complete the already started application to see if they qualify for Â“Marketplace coverage.Â”

Posted by: Shoeless Joe Jackson at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (e8kgV)

330 *pound pound pound*

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (DrWcr)

331 325 The socons are what are killing us, if we could purge a large plurality of the party we would win elections. Genius! Posted by: Cow Shit at April 04, 2014 11:47 AM (Aif/5) ________ GOV. Cucinelli

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (0LHZx)

332 319 Troll: Anyone who doesn't agree with me 100% of the time. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:46 AM (0LHZx You just had to be a bloviating bovine, didn't you?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (HVff2)

333 No politician should get paid until the budget is balanced and debts are paid, and, oh, the military is properly compensated and Vet hospitals are the pride of the country.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (A98Xu)

334 >>What does pay have to do with a balanced budget?<<

Yeah, I missed the logic of that argument.

What? You tie the rate of pay to balanced budget performance?

Posted by: Sphynx at April 04, 2014 07:48 AM (OZmbA)

335 Yes, everyone knows that greed stops once you've reached a certain salary level. Human nature.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 07:49 AM (oMKp3)

336 GOV. Cucinelli Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:48 AM (0LHZx Gov. Walker, twice in 2 years.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:49 AM (HVff2)

337 The former is why i don't call him a troll and generally welcome his input to a conversation; the latter is why I DO consider him a mincing asshat. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 11:46 AM (4df7R) ____ ♪ Sometimes when we touch....the honesty's tooo much.... ♫

Posted by: fixerupper at April 04, 2014 07:49 AM (nELVU)

338 @328--leading to the old adage: "How much is enough?...Just a little bit more."

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 04, 2014 07:49 AM (Ec6wH)

339 I'm relying on centuries of human nature that says people act in their own best interest. Also, if the compensation is right, you might see a whole new crop of people running for office.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:44 AM (u2a4R)

No, what you'd HAVE is a bunch of greedy bastards running for office. The public already believes that politicians get paid like kings (and guess what? They've got reason to believe that). Paying the polis MORE is not going to make any of those average people get up and run for office. Some manner of leveling the playing field when it comes to RUNNING for office could help, which is why Citizens United and McCutcheon are such important SCOTUS rulings. But paying elected offiicals more money? All you're advocating is the subsidizing of bad behavior.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:49 AM (4df7R)

340 Also, can Sarah be asked to dispense with a bra? Yoga pants and free-range sweater puppies For The Win.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:50 AM (JtwS4)

341 Paying politicians a lot of money might be beneficial. If you're making $1M a year already, there's less incentive for you to take $1M of bribes from lobbyists.
MOAR GRAVVY!!1!

Posted by: gravy sucking pigs at April 04, 2014 07:50 AM (Ua6T/)

342 I think we'd get more leverage if we locked all congresspeople in chastity belts and told them they get to have sex when the budget is balanced and we have accrued $200 billion in funds to pay down the debt.

Posted by: Sphynx at April 04, 2014 07:50 AM (OZmbA)

343 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? I'll buy that for a dollar. Only because I'm bigger than Todd.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:50 AM (m5yRg)

344 340 Also, can Sarah be asked to dispense with a bra? Yoga pants and free-range sweater puppies For The Win.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:50 AM (JtwS4)

Aw, hell...BRB...

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2014 07:50 AM (DrWcr)

345 Paying politicians a lot of money might be beneficial. If you're making $1M a year already, there's less incentive for you to take $1M of bribes from lobbyists.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

Not sure if sarcasm....

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:51 AM (4df7R)

346 What does pay have to do with a balanced budget? If you are offered a half million bonus each year you balance the budget, do you think you would work a little harder, make the tough choices and be a bit more persuasive with your peers than would be without the bonus?

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:51 AM (u2a4R)

347 Logic and reasoning, how do they work? ------jwest

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:51 AM (A98Xu)

348 Seriously you guys if we just dump about 30-35% of the GOP we'll be golden.

Posted by: Cow Pies at April 04, 2014 07:52 AM (Aif/5)

349 pound ... pound ... pound ...

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:52 AM (D9Jn5)

350 Jwest, when a lobbyist is promising you 20 million if you pass his pet legislation what is $500,000? See Hairy Reid and his sons.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:52 AM (A98Xu)

351 Texas politicians make 7K/year and we have a balanced budget and a rainy day fund. Wisconsin state leg's make around $50K and they have a billion dollar surplus.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 04, 2014 07:52 AM (659DL)

352 So in short, the only answer to saving the GOP is Sarah Palin in yoga pants? Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 04, 2014 11:35 AM You know the rule.

Posted by: Minnfidel at April 04, 2014 07:52 AM (igKtt)

353 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 11:49 AM (4df7R)

You just tried to pour a gallon of information into jwest's shotglass sized brain.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (Pluhu)

354 Yes, and the Texas legislators don't need to meet every yearÂ…thank God.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (A98Xu)

355 I can't understand this blog. One day I'm an asshole for refusing to back someone just because they have an R after their name. The next day I'm an asshole because the Rs aren't being conservative enough. Wait, I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Posted by: Daybrother at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (DSOMh)

356

If you are offered a half million bonus each year you balance the budget, do you think you would work a little harder, make the tough choices and be a bit more persuasive with your peers than would be without the bonus?

Again, jwest, they are raking in more than that in bribes already, so there is no incentive. Carol Mosely Braun was paying her boyfriend 'campaign manager' $100K per month out of campaign funds, which he then spent on her.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (0Jb7F)

357 Vet hospitals are the pride of the country. Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 11:48 AM (A98Xu) So, we're asking for miracles now?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (m5yRg)

358 Obligatory: How many career politicians who make about $200K and have to maintain two residences miraculously end up as multi-millionaires after 20 years in office?

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:53 AM (JtwS4)

359 You know, Drew's premise is spot on, and is a subject we rant about daily: the GOP will not fight back. We know they can fight, they mysteriously refuse to do so. There are so many things wrong with the country under Progressive rule: a shitty economy, crony socialism and corruption just about everywhere, the list is extensive. But what do we hear from Pubbies who are supposed to be on our side? Crickets.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b][/u] at April 04, 2014 07:54 AM (0HooB)

360 I'll have the Podcast with a side of Fredoso.

Posted by: garrett at April 04, 2014 07:54 AM (shdfZ)

361

Less texting and more pounding people. We'll never drive that elitist ass off at this rate.

pound ... pound ... pound ...

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 07:55 AM (D9Jn5)

362 358 Obligatory: How many career politicians who make about $200K and have to maintain two residences miraculously end up as multi-millionaires after 20 years in office?

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:53 AM (JtwS4)

Amway.

Posted by: Hairy Reed at April 04, 2014 07:55 AM (OZmbA)

363 Never mind the salaries, repeal the 17th Amendment.

If states started appointing Senators again those Senators would have reason to be jealous guardians of the 10th Amendment.

That would fix a ton of ills.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at April 04, 2014 07:55 AM (IVgIK)

364 Paying politicians a lot of money might be beneficial. If you're making $1M a year already, there's less incentive for you to take $1M of bribes from lobbyists. Money (pay) has nothing to do with it. Paying someone $1m/yr when they are already worth $40m+ doesn't mean shit. Power & perks are what runs it. Give me $40m and you'll never see me again. Much less wanting to waste my life trying to run something.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 04, 2014 07:55 AM (lwkv9)

365 So, we're asking for miracles now? Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 11:53 AM (m5yRg) Isn't it truly wrong that our vet hospitals don't have the best doctors, cutting edge research and TOP of the line rehabilitation? If a President announced he was putting billions into every Vet hospital I would cheer. Debt? Pffffftttt for once for the right reasons.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:56 AM (A98Xu)

366 The problem is, Republicans like Ryan are going after the most popular government programs like MediCare and Social Security that the public just doesn't want to see cut, while they're ignoring Great Society entitlement programs that I would argue are far more corrosive to our nation's soul and there is more public support for reforming.

Posted by: McAdams at April 04, 2014 07:56 AM (Ksz6T)

367 358 Obligatory: How many career politicians who make about $200K and have to maintain two residences miraculously end up as multi-millionaires after 20 years in office? Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 11:53 AM (JtwS4) Most of them. But then again, more and more are only living in DC and "renting" back home. I call bullshit. Such as RINO Rep Tom Petri, WI

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 07:56 AM (HVff2)

368 If you are offered a half million bonus each year you balance the budget, do you think you would work a little harder, make the tough choices and be a bit more persuasive with your peers than would be without the bonus?

Oooooor you do what they've been doing for forever and day, which is cook the books, move money around, pass amendments and continuing resolutions, and just generally lie their asses off until they can get the CBO to agree that, "Yes, the budget is balanced using the figures we have been given."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:56 AM (4df7R)

369

I can't understand this blog. One day I'm an asshole for refusing to back someone just because they have an R after their name. The next day I'm an asshole because the Rs aren't being conservative enough.
Wait, I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

In the end, aren't we all assholes?

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at April 04, 2014 07:56 AM (rXcBX)

370 319 Troll: Anyone who doesn't agree with me 100% of the time. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 11:46 AM (0LHZx) I don't mind people disagreeing with me, in fact it is often an opportunity to debate and clarify my own perspective.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 07:57 AM (bb5+k)

371 Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 11:56 AM (HVff2) Has he got a challenger now?

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 07:58 AM (oMKp3)

372

I'm off to lunch, brother assholes.

(The 'ettes are specifically excluded from that category).

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 04, 2014 07:58 AM (JtwS4)

373 In the end, aren't we all assholes? Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at April 04, 2014 11:56 AM (rXcBX) HA! Yes, yes we are.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 07:58 AM (A98Xu)

374 Bandersnatch- In related news, Joe Biden, once the poorest member of the Senate, was in St Croix last month shopping a vacation home.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at April 04, 2014 07:58 AM (IVgIK)

375
I don't mind people disagreeing with me, in fact it is often an opportunity to debate and clarify my own perspective.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 11:57 AM (bb5+k)

On certain subjects, Moo Moo does not debate. He ad hominems. Just FYI.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 07:58 AM (4df7R)

376 Going all the way back to Nixon, when I first started paying attention to politics. Or when I first started understanding politics, the Republicans have always made concession to the democrats trying to win their approval. Simple appeasement was all it ever was, and it never has ever worked. The was a short, brief moment when Newt Gingrinch in the House started the merest hint of rollback that unleash a firestorm of liberal rage. To undo what has been done to this country is going to take more than talk, and more than votes, and it will be ugly.

Posted by: Smith the Cautious at April 04, 2014 07:59 AM (aas8c)

377 >>In the end, aren't we all assholes? Not all of us.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at April 04, 2014 07:59 AM (shdfZ)

378 I guess everyone is right. The system and pay rates we have right now are perfect. Everything is working as it should be. Nothing needs to be changed. Why couldn't I see this before? We need to quit wasting time on any ideas and go back to what we do best - bitching and moaning.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 07:59 AM (u2a4R)

379

Rather than the Overton Window I use this simple example:

Democrats want to drive the car off the cliff at 100mph.

Republicans think it's a much better idea to drive the car off the cliff at 75mph.

Currently, no one in power thinks of trying to stop the car or change it's course.

Posted by: allmenroder at April 04, 2014 07:59 AM (gL1BH)

380 Isn't it truly wrong that our vet hospitals don't have the best doctors, cutting edge research and TOP of the line rehabilitation? If a President announced he was putting billions into every Vet hospital I would cheer. Debt? Pffffftttt for once for the right reasons. Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 11:56 AM (A98Xu) We're a social experiment. They want to experiment and see just how shitty they can treat disciplined professionals who have learned not to bitch (too much) and see how much they can get away with. Plus, after the shooting stops, 80% of the Republicans don't give a power dive fuck either.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:00 AM (m5yRg)

381 371 Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 11:56 AM (HVff2) Has he got a challenger now? Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 11:58 AM (oMKp3 Glen Grothman announced yesterday to the surprise of many cons. Dewy Stroebel and some businessman not happy about it. I have the young dweeb Duffey. He's not rich yet.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:00 AM (HVff2)

382 BTW, I agree with those who have been saying that the Saletan piece at Slate about firing all those who contributed to Prop 8 is satire.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:00 AM (4df7R)

383 325 The socons are what are killing us, if we could purge a large plurality of the party we would win elections. Genius! Posted by: Cow Shit at April 04, 2014 11:47 AM (Aif/5) Ever read the poem "The Blind men and the Elephant?" Well that's what we have in a lot of cases. Mr. Moo Moo doesn't have to tell me, but I suspect he lives in a heavily urban environment. From *HIS* perspective, social issues are hurting the party, because in heavily urban environments, they are. He describes what he sees from *HIS* perspective because that's what he has to work with. Demographic effects are local.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (bb5+k)

384 "Without that you'll keep getting told that the most direct path to where you want to go involves going in the opposite direction of your desired destination."

which is why i say:
Let.
It.
Burn.

the RNC isn't going to listen, because all they're interested in is maintaining their personal perks & access to power. let the whole nasty mess collapse.

Posted by: redc1c4 at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (q+fqH)

385 Why couldn't I see this before? We need to quit wasting time on any ideas and go back to what we do best - bitching and moaning. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:59 AM (u2a4R) You dumb cluck. Its not the pay, its not the perks. Its the power. Jesus Christ open your eyes.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (HVff2)

386 Jwest, relax, the system of course is awful but more pay simply won't help, and you can stop being embarrassed by bringing up such a stupid idea. It's cool bro.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (A98Xu)

387 Re taxes, the GOP's image problem on that is that the only line in the sand we drew last election cycle seemed to be to not raise the upper bracket's rate. If you recall, things like eliminating charitable deductions and even mortgage deductions were on the table, but raising the rate on "the one percent" was a firm NO.

Posted by: Y-not at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (zDsvJ)

388 In the end, aren't we all assholes? You realize this is obligatory: http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 08:01 AM (naUcP)

389 378 I guess everyone is right. The system and pay rates we have right now are perfect. Everything is working as it should be. Nothing needs to be changed. Why couldn't I see this before? We need to quit wasting time on any ideas and go back to what we do best - bitching and moaning. Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:59 AM (u2a4R) I take it this worked very well with your parents when you wanted a new Power Ranger, right?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:02 AM (m5yRg)

390 The system and pay rates we have right now are perfect.

Everything is working as it should be.

Nothing needs to be changed.

You should be in the next remake of "The Wicker Man" with your penchant for burning male figures made of agricultural products.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:02 AM (4df7R)

391 I'm 56 years old. I expect there to be a shooting war in this country, probably in my lifetime.

Posted by: Stevea28 at April 04, 2014 08:02 AM (fMxYc)

392 >>I'm all for taking back the universities! I just have no fucking idea where to begin. Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:03 AM (5xmd7)

393 You realize this is obligatory:

http://youtu.be/2cV_q-mVAAA

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 12:01 PM (naUcP)

But of course.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at April 04, 2014 08:03 AM (rXcBX)

394 "The system and pay rates we have right now are perfect. Everything is working as it should be. Nothing needs to be changed. " Holy flaming strawman, Batman!

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 08:04 AM (hFL/3)

395 Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. And make all educational institutions liable for defaulted student loans.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 08:04 AM (naUcP)

396 363 Never mind the salaries, repeal the 17th Amendment. If states started appointing Senators again those Senators would have reason to be jealous guardians of the 10th Amendment. That would fix a ton of ills. Posted by: typo dynamofo at April 04, 2014 11:55 AM (IVgIK) Agree. The 17th was a mistake.

Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 08:04 AM (bb5+k)

397 Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. Make the universities cosign the loans.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:04 AM (oMKp3)

398 Make the universities cosign the loans. Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 12:04 PM (oMKp3) Amen. More government loans, tuition goes up.

Posted by: Seems legit at April 04, 2014 08:05 AM (A98Xu)

399 There is no sense of Duty or Honor amongst our Political Elite. Bring back the Senate Dueling Grounds.

Posted by: garrett at April 04, 2014 08:06 AM (shdfZ)

400 Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 12:03 PM (5xmd7)

This. You'd defund academic left and turn the students ripped off by the education scam into repub voters.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at April 04, 2014 08:06 AM (rXcBX)

401 397 Make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. Make the universities cosign the loans. Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 12:04 PM (oMKp3) That sounds good off the top of your head. Who does the University go to when they have to pay up for the little fuckers who don't pay their debt. Of course us the taxpayers.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:07 AM (HVff2)

402 The Overton what? I was told there was no math on this blog.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at April 04, 2014 08:07 AM (dZGNV)

403 http://tinyurl.com/kgff9nq Afghani Cop kills AP Photographer female... "War on Wimminz?"

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 08:08 AM (TE35l)

404 399 There is no sense of Duty or Honor amongst our Political Elite. Bring back the Senate Dueling Grounds. I'd pay good money to see Susan Collins versus Elizabeth Warren.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:08 AM (oMKp3)

405 401 Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 12:07 PM (HVff2) "good luck" Fuck 'em

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 08:09 AM (TE35l)

406

I guess everyone is right.

The system and pay rates we have right now are perfect.

No one said it was. What we said was that your solution - give the bastards more money - was the wrong idea.

Everything is working as it should be.

Nothing needs to be changed.

Lots of things need to be changed. Take a look, for example, at comment 374. Joe Biden is one misfiring synapse away from eating his own feces. He has never introduced, sponsored or implemented any legislation that has bettered the lives of Americans one iota. He is as close to a perfect nonentity as one can find.

And yet, this man - whose contribution to the Republic is less than nil - has, after his years of "public service" enough money to shop for a luxury vacation home. But you would step up his salary because you don't think he makes enough money.

Why couldn't I see this before? We need to quit wasting time on any ideas and go back to what we do best - bitching and moaning.
Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:59 AM (u2a4R)

I am quite sure the Hot Air button on your computer is fully functional.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 08:09 AM (SjUPQ)

407 Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:59 AM (u2a4R) Nonsense like this is why you receive so much abuse here.

Posted by: fluffy at April 04, 2014 08:09 AM (Ua6T/)

408 The jwest trolling technique:

1. Produce dumbass course of action
2. Watch dumbass course of action hilariously destroyed
3. Bitch and moan while accusing others of bitching and moaning.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 08:10 AM (Pluhu)

409 Another catch22 hidden in obamacare: New Obamacare Flaw Discovered: Sign-up Window Slams Shut Here's more fallout from the health care law: Until now, customers could walk into an insurance office or go online to buy standard healthcare coverage any time of year. Not anymore. Many people who didn't sign up during the government's open enrollment period that ended Monday will soon find it difficult or impossible to get insured this year, even if they go directly to a private company and money is no object. For some it's already too late. ... The federal law doesn't prevent companies from selling policies to everyone all year. But insurers consider it too risky now that the law prohibits them from rejecting people in poor health. "If you didn't have an open enrollment period, you would have people who would potentially enroll when they get sick and dis-enroll when they get better," said Chris Stenrud, spokesman for insurer Kaiser Permanente. "The only insured people would be sick people, which would make insurance unaffordable for everyone." They'll have to wait until November for care in 2015. Some states, however, are still offering plans.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 04, 2014 08:10 AM (IXrOn)

410 Well that's what we have in a lot of cases. Mr. Moo Moo doesn't have to tell me, but I suspect he lives in a heavily urban environment. From *HIS* perspective, social issues are hurting the party, because in heavily urban environments, they are. He describes what he sees from *HIS* perspective because that's what he has to work with. Demographic effects are local. Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 12:01 PM (bb5+k) ___________ I live in a semi-urban area. But I've lived all over the place and have friends / family all over the place too...urban, suburban, rural, you name it. And yes it's anecdotal, but from my pretty large group of personal interactions, I know a lot of people who on paper would be die hard Republicans, but are Democrats BECAUSE of social issues. Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend these people don't exist. Doesn't make them go away.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:10 AM (0LHZx)

411 $1.5 MILLION Hotel Bill for Obama's One-Day Visit to Brussels...

Posted by: Fistin Pug at April 04, 2014 08:11 AM (vFh9Q)

412 I need a sammich. Or a muffin. Or a Bloody Mary. Or all of the above.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:11 AM (oMKp3)

413 @403
If I had my choice, I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.

Posted by: William Tecumseh Sherman at April 04, 2014 08:11 AM (Ec6wH)

414 The Ann Coulter link in the sidebar has me thinking.

Mozilla forced Eich out as CEO because he donated $1000 six years ago to Prop 8.

I say we should publicly name and shame businesses and individuals who hire illegal aliens, especially in ares where unemployment is very high. "Why are you denying work to black people?" we should say. "Why are you denying work to single mothers? Why are you denying work to teenagers who are desperate to get out of their parents' homes? Why are you denying work to men and women who are trying to feed their families? Why are you paying these illegals slave wages? Why are you such a monster?"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:11 AM (4df7R)

415 >>Why are you trying insert facts into a political rant? Moderate Republicans cannot get elected at all, excepting Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, the GOP leadership in the Senate, the GOP leadership in the house.... OK I'll settle for an Eisenhower Republican. Gays are fired from federal office, Operation Wetback III, we look for ways to add God to federal insignia, and if China sends its military outside the borders, we bomb on the bastards. Y'know, moderation.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:11 AM (5xmd7)

416 The enrollment window is BS anyway. There are a ton of exemptions like if you move to a new state, if you have a kid, if you get married or divorced, if you change jobs...any of these "life changes" will allow you to buy insurance outside the open enrollment period.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:12 AM (0LHZx)

417 410 Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:10 PM (0LHZx) 10 million guys named Juan will make her go away along with a lot of us. Thanks for playing Mau Mau

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 08:13 AM (TE35l)

418 1. Produce dumbass course of action
2. Watch dumbass course of action hilariously destroyed
3. Bitch and moan while accusing others of bitching and moaning.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 12:10 PM (Pluhu)

If only this were the first time jwest had suggested this silly course of action. Alas, it is not.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:13 AM (4df7R)

419 You can stick your head in the sand and pretend these people don't exist. Doesn't make them go away.

Posted by: 38% of the GOP identify as theological conservatives at April 04, 2014 08:13 AM (Aif/5)

420 oops h/t *newsmax.com for New Obamacare Flaw Discovered: Sign-up Window Slams Shut

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 04, 2014 08:14 AM (IXrOn)

421 Wait. Maybe it's the corruption that's the real problem. You know there's probably only one way we ever completely eliminate corruption and graft, reversing a few thousand years of human development... Robots. And they love increasing the minimum wage.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 08:14 AM (xHTCV)

422

Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion.

And what of "abortion?" Does she know what the pro-life position actually is (and hint: it's not what you posted), or does she think it's what the MFM tells her?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 08:14 AM (SjUPQ)

423 416 The enrollment window is BS anyway. ---------- The talking point that people will wait to buy insurance when they are in an ambulance heading to the hospital is no longer operative at least.

Posted by: Roy at April 04, 2014 08:14 AM (VndSC)

424 And yes it's anecdotal, but from my pretty large group of personal interactions, I know a lot of people who on paper would be die hard Republicans, but are Democrats BECAUSE of social issues. ----- I actually don't believe most people who say that. I think it just sounds better than saying, hey I like taxing the rich and getting free stuff from the government.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:14 AM (gmeXX)

425 The enrollment window is BS anyway. There are a ton of exemptions like if you move to a new state, if you have a kid, if you get married or divorced, if you change jobs...any of these "life changes" will allow you to buy insurance outside the open enrollment period. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:12 PM (0LHZx) Yes, that is covered. But, that is not the majority of those that have to go look for insurance, who have been kicked off what they had.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (IXrOn)

426 If you are offered a half million bonus each year you balance the budget, do you think you would work a little harder, make the tough choices and be a bit more persuasive with your peers than would be without the bonus? Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 11:51 AM (u2a4R) There's the proof that you don't understand how Washington works.

Posted by: Meremortal, something's burning.... at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (1Y+hH)

427 Demographic effects are local. Posted by: D-Lamp at April 04, 2014 12:01 PM (bb5+k) _______ And even what you say is true, that I am blinded by urban living....so what? More people live in urban areas than in rural areas. Do you really want to keep alienating people in cities forever? I don't.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (0LHZx)

428 Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion.

Ah, then she'd hate me, because she is a vaginalogue who votes the way vaginalogues tell her to vote. She is a silly person.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (4df7R)

429

jwest is a textbook progressive ... he just hasn't figured it out yet.

His entire schtick always boils down to just not having the "right" people in charge.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (D9Jn5)

430 Congressional approval ratings are at 10% or less. Voter turnout is at best 45%, in an offyear maybe 19%. You WILL NOT see 65%-75% of the American people voice support for a legislative agenda by an institution that 90% of them dislike and 50% of them never bother to vote for. So waiting for the polls to approve the conservative agenda in advance is a guaranteed failure. If Congress starts making sense, costing less and reversing damage to our economy, then as more people trust it, they will start approving the agenda. After we implement the agenda.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:15 AM (5xmd7)

431 423 The talking point that people will wait to buy insurance when they are in an ambulance heading to the hospital is no longer operative at least. Yep, I was laboring under that misunderstanding at one point too. Then I started actually working at an Exchange. Etc.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (xHTCV)

432 I say we should publicly name and shame businesses and individuals who hire illegal aliens, especially in ares where unemployment is very high. "Why are you denying work to black people?" we should say. "Why are you denying work to single mothers? Why are you denying work to teenagers who are desperate to get out of their parents' homes? Why are you denying work to men and women who are trying to feed their families? Why are you paying these illegals slave wages? Why are you such a monster?" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS. X100000

Posted by: rickb223 at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (lwkv9)

433 Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion ---- I notice you didn't say she hates spending. I suspect that is the real reason she votes D.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (gmeXX)

434 She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion. Oh. So, she wants to give it wang with number four? There is something brutally quixotic about that stance.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (m5yRg)

435 10 million guys named Juan will make her go away along with a lot of us. Thanks for playing Mau Mau Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 12:13 PM (TE35l) _______ Drunk so early Sven?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (0LHZx)

436 The first ever female senator. http://tinyurl.com/mhac94z She served for one day. Term limits.

Posted by: Jen at April 04, 2014 08:16 AM (IdGqX)

437 I actually don't believe most people who say that. I think it just sounds better than saying, hey I like taxing the rich and getting free stuff from the government. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 12:14 PM (gmeXX) Not until it hits them personally. Small increments aren't noticed. No one thinks the government will change, so it comes down to personal hits in the pocketbook.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 04, 2014 08:17 AM (IXrOn)

438 This is classic AoSHQ commentary. It starts with everyone saying the federal government should operate more like private industry. Then, when someone brings up a principle that has worked in private industry from the beginning of time - use pay to attract and incentivize the best people for a job - the mob lights up the torches and gets ready to drag the offender behind their pickup truck. Those with the loudest voices knocking down the idea never have any alternative. It's possible someone out there has a different idea but now it will never be brought up because of their fear of being piled on. Yeah, this is how the right should work. This is what keeps us on top.

Posted by: jwest at April 04, 2014 08:17 AM (u2a4R)

439 And what of "abortion?" Does she know what the pro-life position actually is (and hint: it's not what you posted), or does she think it's what the MFM tells her? Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 12:14 PM (SjUPQ) __________ You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. You can get down into the weeds all you want about the MSM. It doesn't matter. The GOP is generally anti-abortion, the Dems are general pro-choice. And it's killing the GOP with women.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:18 AM (0LHZx)

440 It starts with everyone saying the federal government should operate more like private industry. Then, when someone brings up a principle that has worked in private industry from the beginning of time - use pay to attract and incentivize the best people for a job - the mob lights up the torches and gets ready to drag the offender behind their pickup truck.

We recognize that, just because pay can attract the best people to the job doesn't mean the best people GET THE JOB. Twit. The ones who get the job are the connivers, the schemers, the dirty players. The ones who have the qualifications for the job but who put themselves at the front of the line by implying that anyone else who is equally qualified is subhuman.

Demonrats, in other words.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:19 AM (4df7R)

441 It starts with everyone saying the federal government should operate more like private industry. Then, when someone brings up a principle that has worked in private industry from the beginning of time - use pay to attract and incentivize the best people for a job - the mob lights up the torches and gets ready to drag the offender behind their pickup truck. ---- The problem is that no matter what the government is not like private industry ... it is a monopoly with police powers. Which is why I don't think it should operate like a private industry per se (though I understand the sentiment). We should recognize that it will and does operate differently and thus limit those areas in which it can operate.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:20 AM (gmeXX)

442 Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend these people don't exist. Doesn't make them go away. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:10 PM (0LHZx) As usual, I call BULLSHIT.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:20 AM (HVff2)

443 I actually don't believe most people who say that. I think it just sounds better than saying, hey I like taxing the rich and getting free stuff from the government. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 12:14 PM (gmeXX) _________ In my example, this woman pays a lot of taxes. And if you look at the most Democrat outposts like San Francisco or the Upper West Side of Manhattan, those people pay a ton of taxes too. There is the FSA no doubt. But that is not the entirety of the Democrat base. Not by a long shot.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:20 AM (0LHZx)

444 How many dead bodies are you willing to trade for a maybe lets pretend they'll switch vote.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:20 AM (oMKp3)

445 You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. You can get down into the weeds all you want about the MSM. It doesn't matter. The GOP is generally anti-abortion, the Dems are general pro-choice. And it's killing the GOP with women.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:18 PM (0LHZx)

Because she is a silly person who doesn't know the first thing about what most Republicans and conservatives actually believe about abortion and the gubmint's role in it. You could educate her, but you are yourself a deluded fool where social conservatism is concerned.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) [/u][/i][/s][/b] at April 04, 2014 08:20 AM (4df7R)

446 Why's everybody always pickin' on me ?

Posted by: wjest at April 04, 2014 08:21 AM (D9Jn5)

447 As usual, I call BULLSHIT. Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 12:20 PM (HVff2) ________ Of course you do. The fact the GOP loses women by double digits every election is also bullshit. Or is it because they're not anti-abortion enough? If you don't think that there are people out there who are repulsed by the socon positions on abortion and to a lesser extent SSM, you're dreaming.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:21 AM (0LHZx)

448 You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. ---- You're missing my point. How does she feel about spending? I suspect that she supports it (of course she would fit right in the GOP then). Where is she on the tax spectrum. I think the abortion line is just a convenient excuse.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:21 AM (gmeXX)

449 Not going to happen, jwest, so why even discuss it? Try reality, we have to deal with it every day. Instead of your bonus idea, just don't pay them at all unless the national debt drops. Balancing the budget can be a sham, and doesn't lower the national debt one penny.

Posted by: Meremortal, something's burning.... at April 04, 2014 08:22 AM (1Y+hH)

450 And it's killing the GOP with women. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:18 PM (0LHZx) Bullshit again, 1 demographic of women voted for TFG over the Mittster. And this one demographic would still vote Dem even if the GOP were neutral on abortion. Its the Julia crowd you jackass.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:22 AM (HVff2)

451 Because she is a silly person who doesn't know the first thing about what most Republicans and conservatives actually believe about abortion and the gubmint's role in it. You could educate her, but you are yourself a deluded fool where social conservatism is concerned. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Bossy Assault Hobbit (or Beth for short) at April 04, 2014 12:20 PM (4df7R) _________ And this is why the GOP is done as a political party unless it jettisons the social cons. You will never get it. And every election it will get worse and worse.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:22 AM (0LHZx)

452 438 This is classic AoSHQ commentary. It starts with everyone saying the federal government should operate more like private industry. Then, when someone brings up a principle that has worked in private industry from the beginning of time Aye yi yi......... *facepalm* - use pay to attract and incentivize the best people for a job - the mob lights up the torches and gets ready to drag the offender behind their pickup truck. Doesn't it get tiring jumping up and down from that cross? You get a barn spike discount, or something?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:22 AM (m5yRg)

453 If you don't think that there are people out there who are repulsed by the socon positions on abortion and to a lesser extent SSM, you're dreaming. Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:21 PM (0LHZx) I want your numbers Bullshit Bullshit

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:23 AM (HVff2)

454 How does she vote at the local level? School board? County clerk? Mayor? All those local offices that have nothing to do with abortion but have everything to do with fiscal responsibility? Thought so.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:23 AM (oMKp3)

455 >>You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. You can get down into the weeds all you want about the MSM. It doesn't matter. The GOP is generally anti-abortion, the Dems are general pro-choice. And it's killing the GOP with women. Then she needs to change her opinion about killing babies.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:23 AM (5xmd7)

456 " The GOP is generally anti-abortion, the Dems are general pro-choice. And it's killing the GOP with women." Bullshit. Per Gallup: 2) Fully 58 percent of adults say abortion should be illegal in all circumstances, or only permitted in "a few." Just 39 percent say the practice should be legal in "all" or "most" circumstances. (3) On that same question, 57 percent of women adopt a pro-life view; 40 percent adopt the more doctrinaire "pro-choice" position, which is supposed to be the official stance of their entire gender.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 08:23 AM (hFL/3)

457 You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. You can get down into the weeds all you want about the MSM. It doesn't matter. The GOP is generally anti-abortion, the Dems are general pro-choice. And it's killing the GOP with women.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:18 PM (0LHZx)

So she thinks we should have a strong defense, a robust economy, lower taxes, delegate much of the government's responsibilities to the local level - all what are standard GOP talking points, but because of the boogeyman of abortion, she will vote for the party that taxes her into the poorhouse, shits on our military and betrays its allies?

Seems to me "abortion" is the excuse she uses for not facing up to her real wants.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 04, 2014 08:23 AM (zF6Iw)

458 Nood open

Posted by: rickb223 at April 04, 2014 08:24 AM (lwkv9)

459 Friend of my wife's absolutely hates illegal immigration. She owns guns. She has 3 kids and is the quintessential mama bear. Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion ---- I notice you didn't say she hates spending. I suspect that is the real reason she votes D. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 12:16 PM (gmeXX) Or because she had an abortion at some point in her life. Women who have had abortions very often have lifelong problems dealing with it and they deal with it in strange ways. They sometimes become pro life and sometimes they defend abortion to the death because they think by rabidly justifying it,it somehow will make the guilt go away.

Posted by: Jen at April 04, 2014 08:24 AM (IdGqX)

460 Oh and also: (4) Millenials (aged 18-34) are the most likely group to believe abortion should be outlawed in all circumstances. Overall, 57 percent of these young voters select one of the pro-life options

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 08:24 AM (hFL/3)

461 If you don't think that there are people out there who are repulsed by the socon positions on abortion and to a lesser extent SSM, you're dreaming. ---- We all think that. The question always is - is the position attracting more people than it repulses. Plus, I still believe that most people are more supportive of the spending than the other stuff. There is a reason the fiscally conservative, socially liberal politician does not exist.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:25 AM (gmeXX)

462 Doesn't it get tiring jumping up and down from that cross? You get a barn spike discount, or something?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 12:22 PM (m5yRg)

Impressive trolling technique, no? It got you and me to respond instead of concentrating on lucid things.

Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 08:25 AM (Pluhu)

463 Ach, switch to Opera, no more troll-blocking scripts, so I have to deal with Mr. Cowpattie's crap. Bah.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 04, 2014 08:25 AM (naUcP)

464 >>It starts with everyone saying the federal government should operate more like private industry. Yeah we all think the clerks could behave as if a crappy job got them fired. But I do believe if the BOARD offers itself bonuses the Board ends up going to prison.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (5xmd7)

465 What does jettison the socons mean? Are you proposing to post armed guards at the polling stations to make sure we don't vote republican. Or do you prefer camps.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (oMKp3)

466 And this is why the GOP is done as a political party unless it jettisons the social cons. ---- Have you missed the past four years of elections?

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (gmeXX)

467 The tide is turning against abortion, this is not the time to abandon innocents to their death. Not everyone comes at abortion from a religious standpoint, for some of us it's just common sense ethics. You don't kill innocents.

Posted by: Meremortal, something's burning.... at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (1Y+hH)

468 You're missing my point. How does she feel about spending? I suspect that she supports it (of course she would fit right in the GOP then). Where is she on the tax spectrum. I think the abortion line is just a convenient excuse. Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 12:21 PM (gmeXX) _____________ Why would she lie? She's an I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR type of person. But she's also very pragmatic financially. Her husband is kind of a space cadet (but a nice guy). I've known her for 10 years and I think I know her well enough to tell you that if it were not for abortion she'd be a Republican. Why is it so hard for you to believe this? Do you really think the engineers making $200K in Silicon Valley vote Democrat because they love paying taxes?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (0LHZx)

469 Married women tend heavily "R". It's the single, "pass around party packs" that don't. Hence: 448 You're missing the point. She should be a Republican. But because of the GOP's position on abortion, she's not. ...is not telling the whole story.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (m5yRg)

470

I've met this lady friend of Moo Moo. Care to take a guess about her "endowment", MWR ?

Huge. Kind of like two cantaloupes snuggled together for warmth. See ... the science does not lie.

Posted by: ScoggDog at April 04, 2014 08:26 AM (D9Jn5)

471 465 What does jettison the socons mean? Are you proposing to post armed guards at the polling stations to make sure we don't vote republican. Or do you prefer camps. Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 12:26 PM (oMKp3) __________ Yes that's exactly what I mean.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 08:27 AM (0LHZx)

472 It's funny how the polls tend to show public dissatisfaction with big government, yet the GOP never, ever campaigns on it.

Ahem!

Posted by: Zombie Reagan at April 04, 2014 08:28 AM (DPvCq)

473 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2014 12:27 PM (0LHZx) Yes I thought so.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:28 AM (oMKp3)

474 Wish I had not been required by circumstances to stop reading the fascinating comments around 10:49 a.m.. Nothing better than morons and moronetts on the web -- even if I disagree with so many. I don't think there is a chance (of a snowball) in hell of "conservative" thinking speaking to Americans. America is not a "conservative" country -- it is a rip-roaring, expand your opportunities for yourself and your children place. Until we face up to that reality and develop our ideas for those purposes, we are flocked. Examples: 1. Gay/lesbian partners (hereafter called gays). Conservatives, especially Christian types, hate gays. They are human beings and citizens just like everyone else and deserve the same privileges and responsibilities of citizenship, which includes partnership rights, but conservative-Christians are phobic and consider them evil. No thinking can come into this hellish place. Wake up. this partnership did not have to be called marriage and heteros could have stood up to the predictable wailing. But because conservatives made such a hating to-do, Republicans, or any responsible American party, could could not develop the laws that enabled gay Americans to enjoy those "American" partnership rights and responsibilities and leave marriage to heterosexual partners. It is all about rip-roaring living your life to the fullest -- too bad Republicans and Conservatives cannot see this and expand these opportunities to everyone. 2. I am a classical liberal and want freedom of opportunity, but know we need a safety net (not some stupid idea of "compassionate conservatism"). A safety-net is not compassionate; it is realistic. It is not welfare, it is workfare. It acknowledges that there are the lame, the halt, and the blind and takes limited accountability. 3. I am for fiscal prudence of government for the purpose of rip-roaring private development (but with checks and balances). Why fiscal prudence? Mainly so that corporate cronyism cannot spend billions of my -- oh, I wish -- dollars not bothering to compete to bring productive value to this country along with jobs. 4. What and who were the Bushies for? Corporate cronyism and international adventurism (under the guise of "expanding democracy"), apparently in order to support Saudiis and keep Saudi oil and power. The Bushies paved the way for the feckless Clinton and the idiot Obama and their communist-islamist tyrant backers. They and their (crony corporate) supporters are the destroyers of our country, even more than FDR and LBJ. There is so much more. I hope and pray that marxist-maoist-islamist-one-world elitist government does not take us over before American values reassert themselves. We are Jurassic Park, the genes will find a way -- just like the id. Freedom is in us. I hope it returns in my lifetime and for that of my children and grandchildren.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at April 04, 2014 08:29 AM (i0aYq)

475 Why would she lie? ---- Because humans lie. She may not be, and she may be sincere. You know her better than I do. I am using her as more of a general example.

Posted by: SH at April 04, 2014 08:29 AM (gmeXX)

476 >>If you don't think that there are people out there who are repulsed by the socon positions on abortion and to a lesser extent SSM, you're dreaming. And if we'd welcome MS-13, we'd not only get more votes, but we'd be taken care of financially. Which is a powerful incentive from the dawn of time, as jwest could tell you.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 08:29 AM (5xmd7)

477 ). I've known her for 10 years and I think I know her well enough to tell you that if it were not for abortion she'd be a Republican. -The Mooster The key part of your sentence is "I think I know her" well you don't so suck it up buttercup and admit you were/are wrong.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 04, 2014 08:29 AM (HVff2)

478 439 it's killing the GOP with women. You know what would kill a lot more GOP with a lot more women? Abandoning their principals and selling out to win elections like another party. Especially when the principle you want them to compromise on is...get this...killing babies. This dead horse remains dead.

Posted by: akula51[/b][/i][/s] at April 04, 2014 08:31 AM (xHTCV)

479 Impressive trolling technique, no? It got you and me to respond instead of concentrating on lucid things. Posted by: Captain Hate at April 04, 2014 12:25 PM (Pluhu) Meh. Lucidity is overrated, he's too much fun to swing at and hey, look at the clock.... ....beer time!

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at April 04, 2014 08:31 AM (m5yRg)

480 Guess what, Moo Moo,I can play your "abandon your principles to win voters" game too. I know people who are pro-life and would vote Republican except for the fact that they think that "Republicans don't do enough for the poor" so they vote for Dems. If Republicans expanded medicaid and food stamps and all the rest, they would happily vote Republican as the "moral" party.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 08:32 AM (hFL/3)

481 Ah well, enough these fantasies, time to bone up for the tonight's gig. Later...

Posted by: Meremortal, something's burning.... at April 04, 2014 08:32 AM (1Y+hH)

482 I know people who are pro-life and would vote Republican except for the fact that they think that "Republicans don't do enough for the poor" so they vote for Dems. If Republicans expanded medicaid and food stamps and all the rest, they would happily vote Republican as the "moral" party. Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2014 12:32 PM (hFL/3) You and I must share a number of friends. I know the exact same people.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 04, 2014 08:35 AM (oMKp3)

483 Last year I could buy any insurance plan in the state at anytime. Now I can't. Fuck your "ton of exemptions" bullshit Mooshoo.

Posted by: whatmeworry? at April 04, 2014 08:36 AM (dZGNV)

484 Women have voted more democrat since they were given the vote, long before abortion was an issue.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 04, 2014 08:38 AM (0Jb7F)

485 In other financial news..... http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=228908 Assume the position, crash, that is...

Posted by: fred zeppelin at April 04, 2014 08:40 AM (zL/eJ)

486 435 Mau Mau, No truncating the bullfuck down. Your imaginary friend will vote for my party if we embrace infanticide. I've told you go fuck yourself in lots of polite ways I prefer the more direct.

Posted by: sven10077 at April 04, 2014 08:42 AM (TE35l)

487 I have three kids and I own guns. I absolutely hate illegal immigration. However, I just won't be able to vote for anyone with an R after their name until your party endorses in-womb vivisection on the day before delivery as the principal means of family planning, at the taxpayers' expense.

Also, you might as well get on that gay-marriage bandwagon, or I'll get you fired.

And, DREAMS for those poor defenseless kids who had no choice where they'd be born. You know, deportation isn't cost-effective.

By now, everyone, conservatives included, needs to admit that life without healthcare is not really free. We need a common sense safety net.

Just give in on those, and I'll probably become a Republican. Probably.

Anyone find this profile believable?

Posted by: Friend of My Wife's at April 04, 2014 08:44 AM (xq1UY)

488 #BlameTheEstablishment

The Party itself is wimpy, but rather than deal with that the leadership must be blamed.

Posted by: Shoot Me at April 04, 2014 08:49 AM (EQcfE)

489 "...is like disagreeing with the idea that the Sun will rise in the east and set in the west. ItÂ’s just a fact."

I dunno. All we have to do is turn the world over...

Posted by: Kevin at April 04, 2014 08:49 AM (XwvDe)

490 Yet she's a straight "D" voter because of one thing....abortion. May want to tell her to stop believing the Democrap campaign lies. Abortion is still legal even after 8 years of Evil Raygun, 4 Yrs of his Prince of Darkness GHWB, and 8 more years of Arch Christian McChimpy Bushitler.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at April 04, 2014 09:09 AM (9Bdcz)

491 You're forgetting another reason: libertarians, fiscal conservatives and moderates of all kinds are constantly trying to reinforce the Guilt-by-Association shame that people on their side exist with more conservative opinions. And in response to slanders from the left, they are quite fond, in their feebleness, to pass the accusations to the right. There are Marxists on the left, but for some reason that's not a reason not to "side with" liberals who associate with them, but that there are conservatives with which they don't agree, they enforce the group-think of the left by simply accepting the guilt of being associated with those whose opinions they don't approve. I don't not have a moderate side myself. By the first sentence of this paragraph I don't tout my moderate side as proof that I'm not as bad as people further right and more worthy of love by the left. I'm just not weak. And prefer to defend against a guilt-by-association fallacy even when its popular. Plus I also have a reasonable defense that I would have no "side" were I afraid to "side" with the worst on the right or the left. Weakling "conservatives" who indulge the liberal trope that there is no "left wing" do nothing but scare people away from the right, reinforcing the "Be afraid of the right" message from the messagers.

Posted by: Axeman at April 04, 2014 09:11 AM (cAr2x)

492 the GOP has a lock on the old people geezer vote I don't think Social Security reform is going to pass muster with that group. And the younins are going to vote Dem

Posted by: righter at April 04, 2014 09:26 AM (cJ8Kq)

493 1. Gay/lesbian partners (hereafter called gays). Conservatives, especially Christian types, hate gays. Posted by: pyromancer76 at April 04, 2014 12:29 PM (i0aYq) That is the stupid, non thinking liberal talking point that completely destroys your argument. Conservatives, including us "christian types", do not hate gays. Christians are taught that the gay lifestyle of sexual activity with a person of the same sex is morally and biblically wrong. We are also taught that we are to not hate. So you are completely wrong in this statement. What has generated the current strong distrust of gays is that gays and their supporters have shown unlimited willingness to trample on non gays rights to their own religious beliefs and lifestyle and their constant harrassment (latest example, Brendan Eich) of anyone who doesn't publically praise and celebrate gays sexual activities. With a few exceptions of states that still had sodomy laws on the books(like a lot of outdated laws, they were never removed but never enforced) no one gave two hoots about what gays did on the own. Gays could live together, own businesses together, enter into contracts, etc. It wasnt' until the progressives decided to start using gays as a weapon to force their social utopia (simply a mask for power grab) onto the country that the pushback started. Many states voted to define marriage as between one man and one woman when it was evident that SSM was one of the progressives ideals and goals because it was another way to generate a class of benefit receivers who will vote Democrat. Almost every state that has had a referendum on marriage definition has voted to maintain the one man one woman definition. It is court intervention, most of which is now awaiting appellate and Supreme court hearings, that have turned over those states laws. Conservatives are simply defending themselves. I will not be forced to praise a lifestyle that I personally find to be against my religion. I have no hatred for gays in general, but I do have very strong defensive feelings against the militants. And since I am finding it harder to discern who is a militant and who is not, common sense tells me and most conservatives that we need to be wary of all gays who actively live the lifestyle. 4. What and who were the Bushies for? Corporate cronyism and international adventurism (under the guise of "expanding democracy"), apparently in order to support Saudiis and keep Saudi oil and power. The Bushies paved the way for the feckless Clinton and the idiot Obama and their communist-islamist tyrant backers. They and their (crony corporate) supporters are the destroyers of our country, even more than FDR and LBJ. Posted by: pyromancer76 at April 04, 2014 12:29 PM (i0aYq) Just the fact that you call HW and George the "Bushies" says a lot about your real attitude. This BS of "War for Oil" is such a tired , debunked myth, again, another lib talking point that is straight out of the old Occupy Wallstreet/Woodstock manual. You probably don't have a clue what the first Iraq war was about, other than , in your mind, enrich Halliburton and Bush's oil interests. Iraq had invaded another soverign nation, one that we were allies with, Kuwait. It was a repeat of what Hitler had done(and now we see Russia doing the same thing) For a tutorial on the 1st Iraq war, here is a link to a liberal site (PBS) describing the reasons for the war. http://tinyurl.com/pfs6mpv Apparently we were not supposed to defend ourselves after 9/11. Invading Afghanistan to flush out the Taliban and try to find Bin Ladin was the right thing to do, staying there for a decade with the current rules of engagement is a different story. Invading Iraq was the right thing to do, as it set up a buffer zone in the Middle East between Iran, Syria, etc.. How we have executed that war and it's follow up is a debate far too long for here. In reality, HW's 100 hour war was executed well. I very well remember how much we were appreciated by the Kuwaitis, and were respected and aided by other Middle east countries during and immediately after that war. Removing Hussein in hindsight would have been good, but would have left the same vacuum we tried to avoid in the second Iraq war. Which meant we had to stay... Nation building is an unfortunately byproduct reality of war. Unless you are going to be the drone strike-sit on the sidelines president such as Obama, who then allows the vacuum to be filled by even worse enemies under the guise of " the people of xyz country have spoken", and then has no idea how to deal with the new monster he just allowed to be created. Most rational people know this, which is why no one wants to go to war unless it is really worth the cost. It's why there was no stomach from Americans , including conservatives,getting involved in Syria, Libya, or Ukraine. But when it is needed, such as when an entire strategic area is invaded by another country that has direct ties to the USA(guess what, we import oil from the middle east because liberals still won't let us become energy dependent, so the Kuwait defense also kept oil flowing after we managed to put all the oilfield fires out Hussein set), the majority of Americans are willing to sacrifice themselves or their kids.

Posted by: Jen at April 04, 2014 09:26 AM (IdGqX)

494 "My problem with the Williamson/Ace position is that unlike the SunÂ’s daily path, public attitudes toward public policy are not fixed for all time by the laws of physics. America was not always enamored of big government."

Since America is being recolonized by socialists from south of the border, and its current majority population is lying back and thinking of England, we can be sure that "America" will be enamored of big government for the indefinite future.

Posted by: whoever at April 04, 2014 09:34 AM (pjMym)

495 "Removing Hussein in hindsight would have been good, but would have left the same vacuum we tried to avoid in the second Iraq war. Which meant we had to stay... I believe the diplomatic pressure to stop at the liberation of Kuwait was intense, especially since the USSR was still extant. They and China didn't want the UN used by NATO to topple dictatorships.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 04, 2014 10:32 AM (5xmd7)

496 Overton Window? Never heard of him

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at April 04, 2014 11:16 AM (nbGZj)

497 Precisely correct. Our side is not trying, and compromises and agrees with no child left behind and other gov size increasers. The left views all that opposes it as a TEMP obstacle in their leftward march. They do not compromise. See "ghey marriage". One loss or 45, they just keep introducing the bills until they win. Our side, with lots of libertarians and fiscal cons, says "let's call a truce on social issues!" while enemy fights 24-7 on those in reverse. We lose one race, and we whine fold the tent and try not to offend, etc. That's a losing policy over time. You cannot apologize for your views, and should not try. You refute their memes with conviction and stay the course. That's why the left is winning and we are losing.

Posted by: Mehow at April 04, 2014 12:14 PM (Lz2tG)

498 Drew, this is one of the best articles on any site I've seen in years. Wish everyone on the right, the Aces and such also, got it like you do.

We lose without taking the stance that fiscal restraint and reform is imperative and the moral stance. The MORALLY RIGHT CORRECT STANCE.

The left always smartly seizes the high ground morally, so they claim, and demonize not our positions but US and the GOP. We need to get a clue about that.

It's effective!

Ace's conditioned response is typical, to cite about the public not disliking spending, as if it must always be that way and fixed, etc.! The left's great strength that wins over time (see ghey marriage) is they dont CARE what Americans currently think. They want to force them to eventually agree with them and see every battle, from the Mozilla CEO on down, as a building block step to achieve their ends.

The Repubs, contrary, step away on a moment of public backlash. They RESPOND all the time, and do not attack or innovate in reverse. If the right had been pushing for ghey marriage, they would have lost years ago, permanently, once they lost a few ballot measures. That's the difference...

Posted by: Mehow at April 04, 2014 12:32 PM (Lz2tG)

499 11 The Overton Window moved on guns. There is vastly more support these days for individual gun rights than in the past.

Why?

Because the NRA doesn't give an inch. Not one fucking inch.

That should be our strategy. Not. One. Inch.

Yep. But, it's a constant war, dont forget that! The latest Ft. hood shooting now sees Boehner agreeing on mental health refusals for guns! The grabbers KNOW repubs will eventually cave. They will agree to some "common sense" gun control and then it will soon be doctors reporting via Obamacare or some such program all folks even asking for aspirin for depression, and they will be denied guns. Then what constitutes mental health unfitness? The liberals will define it down to anyone disagreeing with same sex marriage eventually, I kid you not. They are looking for a mile preceded by an inch on guns, and weepy boy gave it to them.

You gotta realize the left is ruthless, and they WILL misuse such gun restrictions over temp emotional responses to such tragedies. They are trying right now with these mental health proposals. Not. One. Inch!

Posted by: Mehow at April 04, 2014 12:38 PM (Lz2tG)

500 Most central to this shift is that the Bushes tacitly accepted the proposition that liberalism and big government are inherently "compassionate".

And instead of actively refuting that premise, the Bushes chose a rhetorical line which boiled down to saying, "Yeah, liberals are compassionate, but hey, we conservatives are compassionate too!"

Thus: "a kinder and gentler nation". Thus: "a thousand points of light". Thus: "compassionate conservatism".

Whereas what should be said, and what it would be hoped Zombie Reagan would say if he were to walk the earth today, is that _there is nothing genuinely compassionate about modern liberalism_.

PRECISELY!!!!

It's not fair to upcoming generations to saddle them with mega debt, the compassionate position is fiscal conservatism. We should be claiming the moral high ground, not defending or accepting their premises. The liberal side is the selfish one, not ours.

Posted by: Mehow at April 04, 2014 12:51 PM (Lz2tG)

501 Getting late in the thread, but one thing that needs to happen is get rid of all the regulatory agencies, e.g., FDA, EPA, FCC, etc. The constitution gives the legislative power to congress, it doesn't allow them to pass vague laws that give the real power to an agency controlled by the executive branch. This is a plain violation of the separation of powers doctrine.

If congress wants a law, they must pass it, and bear responsibility for it. Passing it off on an agency simply lets them claim good intentions, and passing blame to a bureaucracy.

Posted by: jbarntt at April 04, 2014 07:25 PM (UNFot)

502

Colleges have taught Keyan Economics since World War II. When someone with a few brain cells working asked, "Won't that bankrupt the country? " His answer was, "Yes, in forty years; but in forty years I'll be dead."

Posted by: burt at April 05, 2014 06:20 AM (1+kJ5)

503 "Because the NRA doesn't give an inch. Not one fucking inch. " That isn't true, and is one reason the Gun Owners of America sprang up. The NRA has yielded on restrictions for previous psychological issues. That is, you can be labeled as sane, responsible, and free to roam as you will, but be barred from owning a firearm in the state, forever.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at April 07, 2014 10:00 AM (5xmd7)

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