1 Morning, Ace.

2 Pretty much any majority muslim country is an enemy in my opinion.  They flat out say we should die and we should take them seriously.

3 Derp derp a derp

4 It is not just Pakistan.

5 Nuclear weapons are handy for this kind of diplomatic discussion. Demand theirs, then carpet bomb them with ours.

6 When I saw this earlier today, my first thought was, Why state this now? Did they get permission?

7 PRO TIP: The hip kids are all calling it Pahh-kee-stohn.

8 Duh!

9 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

10 These people are supposed to be the 'smart ones'?

11 Since the JEF has declared we "won" in Afghanistan and Iraq, this isn't a problem, right?

12 Maybe if we give them a few more billion in aid they'll come around.

13 Pakistan is behind the autoplay?

14 How much of our money are we sending them?

15

Do any of the NYT Geniuses remember who bankrolled the Taliban when they started?

 

And who gave the Taliban diplomatic recognition?

16 Pretty much any majority muslim country is an enemy in my opinion. They flat out say we should die and we should take them seriously.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 14, 2014 01:17 PM (hUf/y)

 

Saudi is our friend yo

17 I'm shocked, shocked I say! It's always entertaining when reality slaps a liberal in the face.

18 State media doesn't make these sorts of pronouncments without a go ahead from the machine. Now we have to figure what they're up to.

19 Bin Laden is dead. GM is alive, and we have nothing to fear from Hillary Clinton back in the White House again.

20 Pretty much any majority muslim country is an enemy in my opinion. They flat out say we should die and we should take them seriously.  Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 14, 2014 01:17 PM (hUf/y)

THIS.

But if you live in the hermetically sealed bubble of the liberal imagination, you can't pretend that's not true.

21 " They flat out say we should die and we should take them seriously" Same goes for the D party, the R party, and the media. Did I miss anything ?

22 And a NY Times reporter is just now figuring this out? Crap, she could have called me a couple of years ago and I could have clued her in.

23 Better late than never, I guess. Kinda weird this is something that has to be "admitted" 13 years into it.

24 This is news? The Pakis have been backing the Taliban since the war against the Russians. They weren't going to eject such a useful ally just for us.

25 Next thing the NY Times will discover that the enemy happens to be muslim?

26
Over a decade late this woman.  But she finally birthed that thought.

27 Gall said that Pakistan’s leaders, and especially former President Pervez Musharraf, were “very clever” and tricked the United States into believing that Pakistan was an ally. Musharref: Pakistan is your friend. Bush: Pakistan is our friend. Musharref: Pakistan can go about his business. Bush: You can go about your business. Musharref: Move along. Bush: Move along... move along.

28 ...oh, and by the way - water is wet.

29 Yes. One of the few arguments that Iraq was the wrong war that I'll entertain is "Because the right war was Pakistan." Without the benefit of hind-sight, Iraq looked like a good idea. Even with the benefit of hind-sight, I'm not sure going IN to Iraq was a bad idea- staying in certainly was (note: sometimes you really do need to pull out). However, you could make the argument- without relying on hindsight- that Pakistan was (even back then) a much bigger direct supporter of Global Terror than Iraq. Certainly something should be done about them now. Of course, the American people have neither the patience nor the will for the necessary fight.

30 18 State media doesn't make these sorts of pronouncments without a go ahead from the machine.

Now we have to figure what they're up to.

Posted by: Kreplach at April 14, 2014 01:20 PM (HJcb1)

Bambi didn't like being dissed by the Saudis? Wants to get in some verbal jabs before the withdrawal? Doesn't matter. The Pakis played us.

31 More political brilliance from two successive administrations State Departments that believe in Jizya. So we are going to stop funding when?

32 I'm starting to think Farrakhan just might not like any white people at all. Even the good, liberal ones. It's like when he refers to white people as "white devils" he actually means it.

33

As Ace said, this has been a "Well, no duh," for most of us for some time.  Pakistan had cultivated the Taliban in order to increase its strategic depth in its confrontations with India.  That the Taliban riled up the USA in 2001 probably caused a lot of cursing in Islamabad.  Pakistan was not going to lose its strategic depth without a fight, hence the double-dealing.

 

Cultivating India would,  I  think, be a much better thing to do, but hey - I'm not an expert like the people in Foggy Bottom.  Why on earth would I want to have a large regional power putting the pressure on Pakistan and keeping the attention of the Taliban closer to home?  Whatever good would that do?

34 &?

35 Thank you, Ms. Obvious, you're a lifesaver!

36

aparently only one side in the religious war is calling it a religious war.

 

 

 

37 Sometime in 2011, I think, ace posted right here that ISI = Qaeda. Can't look up the link from this phone.

38 The "enemy" was actually some Saudi radicals. OBL and the hijackers were mostly from there. The Taliban are bit players in this saga, they don't have the wherewithal to attack us directly. My move would have been to stop letting people in from radical countries, we are no safer having invaded A'Stan and Iraq.

39 Which one is Pakistan again?

40 Oh, and my dogs could pull the wool over the State Department's eyes, and they're kinda stupid.

41 You know what this calls for...

♫ Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb, P'stan. ♫

42 So we are going to stop funding when? 12th of Nevember. Remember, in the George Bush style diplomacy, we're bribing them to remain our friends. In the SCOAMT style diplomacy, we're paying them off for our sin of being Americans. Either way, the spice money must flow.

43 FLASH: NY Times discovers women have no rights in the muslim world.

44 Starting to think the KKK doesn't like both Jews *and* blacks. Still researching the anti-Catholic thing.

45

Oh FFS.  As unimpressive as the bulk of Beltway/State Dept./intel types are, I don't think anyone important ever thought for one second that Pakistan was anything more than the perfect composite of the region - i.e., an entity you were forced to deal with, so you did, and variously you bribed it, tried to penetrate it, killed its proxies, worked with some of it to kill other enemies, and on and on.

 

So many here (and outside) here seem to fall in love with, or become obsessively hostile to, foreign entities.  No need for this, it is not rational or smart.  No.  Better to view every other power/entity/group of people clearly, plainly, with all their contradictory elements.

 

The "wrong" enemy?  There is no "wrong" enemy.  There's just a mix, a balance, an emphasis, a set of tactics that varies over time and circumstances.  Thus, the vile menacing USSR of Stalin is something you support to the point of sacrificing merchant marine crews and significant precious military production so that ..... they help defeat the CURRENT "right" enemy, Nazi Germany.

 

 

46 I thought the real enemy was right wing tea party wingut racists.

47 But, but, wasn't Afghanistan the good war?

48

At one time, Pakistan (along with many other nations) was a rising nation, with an expanding productive middle class.  You can see pictures from the 60's and 70's of women walking in public (without a male escort) with their faces showing.  Women working in public. 

 

"Then they went full Islamic.  You never go full Islamic."

49 Will  wonders  never  cease?  Next  you'll  tell  us  some  WaPo  reporter  discovered  the  ocean  is  wet.

50 They got nukes. You're dealing with a different sort of cat when they have nukes.

51 Hey we still think this Stalin guy has promise

52 FLASH: NY Times discovers women have no rights in the muslim world.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 14, 2014 01:25 PM (t3UFN)

 

Just wait till Big Homo figures out islamic ideaology....

53 43 FLASH: NY Times discovers women have no rights in the muslim world.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 14, 2014 01:25 PM (t3UFN)

 

Just like in the United States!

54 What part of Religion of Peace don't you asshole wingnuts understand?

55 And the problem with cultivating India is that the Hindutva movement is just as violent and obscurantist as Hanbali Islam, just less expansionist. We'd like some assurance they won't just bomb the wrong shit and make the war more difficult.

56 Ya, Nevermember, kinda figured that.

57 Pol Pot's ideas were good but his methods may not have been entirely sound.

58 The first clue should have been the "stan" at the end of the name.

59 As I said in the last thread, this is why the JEF has shit all over our relations with India, which GWB did a great job of improving.

60 Tell me something I didn't know back in Nov 2001. #1 reason why Iran wants nukes. Think we would have thought twice about invading Pakistan in Nov/Dec 2001 if they didn't have nukes?

61 Ya gotta get up pretty early in the morning to get anything past the NY Times ha?

62 55 And the problem with cultivating India is that the Hindutva movement is just as violent and obscurantist as Hanbali Islam, just less expansionist. We'd like some assurance they won't just bomb the wrong shit and make the war more difficult.

Posted by: boulder t'hobo at April 14, 2014 01:26 PM (6mYGI)

Is there a real chance of that?

63

Starting to think the KKK doesn't like both Jews *and* blacks. Still researching the anti-Catholic thing.

Posted by: NYT Reporter at April 14, 2014 01:25 PM (ZPrif)

 

Senator Byrd told me that the KKK was just a public spirited organization that supported progressive Democrat Policies. 

64
Give Ms. Lt Obvious a promotion please.

Me too.

65 We've discovered this crazy new research technique of listening to what people actually say, reading their actual words. Really groundbreaking stuff. Even Vox hasn't done this yet. Exciting times. For example, we're starting to think Oswald may have actually been a Communist. A careful reading of the text where he repeatedly says, "I am a Communist." was one of the initial clues that had been missed by the media for 50 years. It seemed a bit too on-the-nose, but now we suspect he just might have meant it. Whole new areas of journalism are opening up with this new technique. Exciting times.

66 I'm so ronery.

67 Does this give me the moral authority to slap the cashier at the local 7-11?

68 Hey what would happen if the NY times declared Pakistan the enemy and no one noticed? Do bears shit in the woods?

69 New Motto for the MSM:  "Telling You Important Information 10 Fucking Years After It Could Be Used Profitably."


I put this Gall chick in the same camp as Sheryl Attkisson:  Fuck you.  Hey, Sheryl, you let your stories be spiked BY THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT for 5 years, and now I am supposed to think you are a hero?

Gall:  You KNEW this 10 years ago and just kept it to yourself?  Why the Hell should I ever read anything you write.

70 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list?

71 Critics of the Administration have argued that Iran's nuclear program is geared toward the production of weapons. The evidence is ambiguous at best.

72 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list? Posted by: grammie winger at April 14, 2014 01:30 PM (oMKp3) It was the opium, music and dancing.

73 Brings back memories of this:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/155443.php


and this:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/155464.php


There was one about Pearl Harbor, but I can't find it.

74 70 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list? His boyfriend told him no more cash unless he went.

75 Oh, and one more thing before I have an aneurysm:


"Gall said that Pakistan’s leaders, and especially former President Pervez Musharraf, were “very clever” and tricked the United States into believing that Pakistan was an ally."


They didn't trick anyone, dumbass.  They have NUKES!  Of course we aren't going to do anything to them.

76 Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list? Posted by: grammie winger at April 14, 2014 01:30 PM (oMKp3) Well I was getting laid on the beaches of the Sinai Peninsula

77 72 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list?
Posted by: grammie winger at April 14, 2014 01:30 PM (oMKp3)

It was the opium, music and dancing.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at April 14, 2014 01:31 PM (JFUyc)

Well, that and the indoctrination at the madrass.

78 Just wait till Big Homo figures out islamic ideaology....

Posted by: The Obvious Sock at April 14, 2014 01:26 PM (q+zA9)

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

 

Get your labels straight.  It's "Big Anus".

79 Is Drew going to defend himself from Grace Marie Turner's hit piece on the Corner?

80 Thankfully they passed the Kerry-Lugar-Berman Bill (Enhanced Partnership for Pakistan) in 2009. That ought to show Pakistan!

81 And, because of our government's zeal to take credit, a Pakistani doctor who aided our hunt for Bin Laden remains imprisoned. Did the article mention that?

82 Well, you know, just poppin' over to Quetta with some sweetened iced tea, Salman Rushdie book in hand, hawaiian shirt on... sounds like something anyone might do. Amirite?

83

China. Russia. Pakistan. Iran. Each has an interest in undermining US influence in Asia and the Middle East, and all have been busily working to achieve that end, sometimes (but not always) in collusion and coordination with the others. Singling out Pakistan doesn't capture the bigger strategic picture.

 

Besides, I suspect former President Bush knew Musharrif was a double-dealing weasel but bent him to our will--at least temporarily--so that we would have the access to Afghanistan we needed to fight the Taliban.  Had Bush known Pakistan was sheltering Bin Laden, I suspect he would've used a precision bombing strike and then dared Pakistan to do something about it.

 

President Obama, on the other hand, probably thinks he can use his charisma, force of personality, and sheer messianic awesomeness to dissusade the Pakistanis from supporting the Taliban and sheltering Zawahiri.

 

If memory serves, Romney brought up Pakistani double-dealing in the last election. The press (and the Obama campaign) ridiculed him for it.

84 FLASH: NY Times discovers women have no rights in the muslim world. Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 14, 2014 01:25 PM (t3UFN)

Did you know women can;t drive in Saudia Arabia! I know, cray cray right? You can't make this stuff up. And what's with the death penalties for gays?! Mind blown, you guys!

85 Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 14, 2014 01:31 PM (t3UFN) Lucky you. In 1981 I was stuck on the North Shore of Long Island.

86

And just how were we supposed to support any significant military operations in A'stan without renting/"befriending"/"cooperating" with Pakistan?  Geography and logistics are a b***h.

 

There has been some, rather bizarre, echoing on "the right" of the false pacifist/pro-fascist whining about drone zapping.  Leaving that aside, where do people think we could possibly be getting the sort of fine-grained human intel needed to hit a particular hut at a particular time & day, if we weren't (variously) getting cooperation from, and penetrating/turning/exploiting, Paki intel assets and personnel?  I of course do not know, but I find it impossible to imagine that a lot of the US actions in the Northwest Frontier Province etc. have proceeded without Paki input.  These areas are simply immutably non-permissive environments for most of our humint activities. 

 

So - Pakistan an enemy?  Well, the Paki elites are among the most loathsome anti-American human garbage you'll ever meet (and that has, tragically, become a stiff competition, as you all know).  I mean esp. the westernized folks, not the local elites.  I nearly tossed a Paki World Bank POS off the nice rooftop cafe when it made outrageous comments about 9/11, shortly after the event.  So yeah, those vermin could be eliminated to the great improvement of the planet.

 

The incredibly warm, tough, rather brave Paki guys who staffed a lot of the support operations in Iraq?  I'll take them over 80% of the US populace, any day.

 

87 "What difference at this point does it make!!?!?"



-Cankles Clinton

88 I'm with the others asking: why now? Why is it suddenly Okay for the Times to notice this? Theories? Only thing I can think of is that some other catastrophic Obama corruption/incompetence is about to come to light, so they're trying a "wag the dog" strategy.

89 Get your labels straight. It's "Big Anus". Posted by: Soona at April 14, 2014 01:32 PM (k+3vt) ------------- I've come around to "Gaystapo" myself...

90 Jesus Christ that was fucking stupid. Why did Obama do that? Feeds straight into Russian propaganda. .. White House confirms CIA chief was in Kiev on Saturday. Tom Nichols ‏@TheWarRoom_Tom #facepalm MT @20committee: Visual = terrible / MT @jaketapper Russians: DCIA in UKR over the weekend./ CIA: can't confirm. / WH: we confirm.

91 Speaking of reporters ... Patti Anne Browne http://tinyurl.com/physalm That's all I need to say

92 Thank heavens Commander in Chief Obama had the good judgement to turn Afghanistan into a full blown occupation with boots on the ground.  That had never been tried before.

93 Next these fuckin morons will suddenly discover Pakistan has nuclear weapons. WHAT A DISCOVERY

94 They didn't trick anyone, dumbass. They have NUKES! Of course we aren't going to do anything to them.

Posted by: Sharkman at April 14, 2014 01:31 PM (TM1p

 

No? We violated the shit out of their airspace and killed Bin Laden two miles away from their premiere military academy. Nukes or not, that was a fairly provocative act.

95 The cozying up to the double dealing Pakis goes back to the cold war when India had close ties with the USSR. We armed and provided aid (bribes) to the Pakis as a counter to the Kremlin seeking ports on the Indian Ocean. Somebody forgot to tell DC that the Hindus are not very fond of the mooselems and no mooselem nation is our ally.

96
I don't want to be bossy, but Pakistan is our friend and ally.

*puts on headscarf for muzzie compliance*

97 NBC Nightly News ‏@nbcnightlynews CIA Director John Brennan was in Kiev, Ukraine this weekend as part of a trip to Europe, White House confirms

98 blind pigs & acorns, film at 11.

fing idiots...but we're still going to give them all those M-RAPS, right?

99 The Yahoo home page has a picture of Bush and Musharraf together. That is what this is really about--blaming Bush for our current problems.

100 The killing of OBL sure demonstrated the usefullness of twitter. Some Paki guy was on twitter while it was going on.

101 John Schindler ‏@20committee Sending DCIA to Kyiv at a time like this, knowing US inability to keep secrets + RU agitprop, simply boggles the mind.

102 Only thing I can think of is that some other catastrophic Obama corruption/incompetence is about to come to light, so they're trying a "wag the dog" strategy.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 14, 2014 01:34 PM (Zp8Kp)

No, that's what I'm for!!!

103 Gall said that Pakistan’s leaders, and especially former President Pervez Musharraf, were “very clever” and tricked the United States into believing that Pakistan was an ally.




Pakistan has always been a fairweather ally at best.     If the United States was genuninely      "tricked" into believing that    the  Pakis were anything more than   opportunistic    double-dealers   then  our   intelligence, diplomatic and military officials should all be strung up by the heels and pelted with rotten fruit.

104 Surprise Surprise Surprise!

105 Tom Nichols ‏@TheWarRoom_Tom
#facepalm MT @20committee: Visual = terrible / MT @jaketapper Russians: DCIA in UKR over the weekend./ CIA: can't confirm. / WH: we confirm.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 14, 2014 01:35 PM (ZPrif)

Why the ever-loving shit are they CONFIRMING this?   Jeezy friggin' Creezy!

106 90 Jesus Christ that was fucking stupid. Why did Obama do that? Feeds straight into Russian propaganda.
..
White House confirms CIA chief was in Kiev on Saturday.

Tom Nichols ‏@TheWarRoom_Tom
#facepalm MT @20committee: Visual = terrible / MT @jaketapper Russians: DCIA in UKR over the weekend./ CIA: can't confirm. / WH: we confirm.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 14, 2014 01:35 PM (ZPrif)

Sigh. It would be difficult to hide but they didn't need to second-guess CIA. These guys just can't resist the urge to cleat their own dicks.

107

Get your labels straight. It's "Big Anus".

 

Actually, management politely asked the horde to refrain from using that.

108 If  Pervez Musharraf  tricked us and assisted the Taliban  and  the Pakistan government is  still directly assisting the Taliban ,  Musharraf must have not been doing  it too well since he was brought up on Treason charges in 2007. 

109 NYT 2025: "Hey, Iran Didn't Have Good Intentions When Negotiating Nukes with Obama"

110 94 They didn't trick anyone, dumbass. They have NUKES! Of course we aren't going to do anything to them.

Posted by: Sharkman at April 14, 2014 01:31 PM (TM1p

No? We violated the shit out of their airspace and killed Bin Laden two miles away from their premiere military academy. Nukes or not, that was a fairly provocative act.

Posted by: troyriser at April 14, 2014 01:35 PM (gNlvW)

My point remains.  We had to sneak in to kill OBL, rather than receiving his head on a plate about 2 months after 9/11, as we would have had Pakistan not had nukes, and wasn't actually the enemy.  And if Pakistan didn't have one its fellow-travelers doing such a bang-up job of fucking this country up beyond all possibility of redemption from his seat at the Resolute Desk, they might just have responded to our killing OBL with something more than a grin because they are defeating us from within without having to do shit.

111 It's just more fuel to the bonfire of unrest that Dear Leader and "friends" have unleashed on this planet.  Gotta keep those flames high.  Don't want anyone to notice the the burning here at home.

112 Seattle's SeaTac airport solves local Global Warming by replacing broken thermometer ...


It seems it took a catastrophic failure of a thermometer to correct Seattle's problem -- a problem that appears to have been around for several months, if not longer. Looking back at 2013, Seattle ran consistently about 0.5 to 1.0 degrees warmer with respect to its average than Olympia (i.e., if Olympia reported a month about a half degree above normal, Seattle was 1-1.5 degrees above normal.)


... and it was so affordable

113 @91 - I think she better stay away from Egypt.

114 18 State media doesn't make these sorts of pronouncments without a go ahead from the machine.

Now we have to figure what they're up to.
===============
Pretty easy.

It's "Blame Booooosh."

"If Bush had gone after Pakistan--like we all knew he should have--we wouldn't have the problems today."

This is laying the groundwork for another revision of history.

From the guys who brought you "Nobody believed Saddam had WMD" we're about to get "we have always said Pakistan is the problem in Afghanistan."

115 [Drudge notes that a Russian fighter jet buzzes U.S. warship] "This provocative and unprofessional Russian action is inconsistent with their national protocols and previous agreements on the professional interaction between our militaries," said Colonel Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman. DosTranslation: "Awww, cut it out, Eddie!!"

116 NYT 2019: "Maybe Benghazi Attack Was an Act of War" paired with "All of America's Embassies Attacked on 9/11: Motive Still Unknown"

117 Being outsmarted by Pakistan is like complaining that the neighborhood retard with palsy tricked you in a game of three card monte.

118 Hey anyone in this news room hear that rumor that A-Rod was using steroids?

119 Based on the obliviousness of the NYT and our esteemed collection of diplomats' developmentally disabled assessments of who the real culprits were, and their apparent unfamiliarity with taqiyya as a tactic, there should be two areas with job openings very soonÂ… Unfortunately I'm still waiting to hear on my application for bartender and maitre de at The Kangaroo Lounge and Trampoline.

120

>>> Why the ever-loving shit are they CONFIRMING this? Jeezy friggin' Creezy!

 

Most transparent administration EVAH !!

121

Oh, and this goes along with the rest of the thread:  in re the DCIA confirmation from the WH - these people are f***ing idiots, not suited for any jobs of any responsibility, much less national security and national leadership.

 

But you all knew that.

 

BTW, good work there, NYT Reporter sock, very funny.

 

Capt. Hate, excellent point on India.   One of the many unsung foreign policy advances under Dubya was India.  Sure, we had/have tremendous common interests, brought into sharp focus by the friskiness of global Islamic terrorism.  But still.  Given China's emergence and the Soviet collapse, there was little doubt India would be looking towards Washington as it had not since independence.  But Dubya handled that tectonic shift very well.  And, of course, this crew of Beltway sub-retards and worse has done their best to screw it up.

 

Though it really becomes difficult, as a matter of analysis, to disentangle the manifold disastrous implications and consequences of American weakness.  Which is flamboyant and obvious now - but really became evident way back in 2005-ish.  And that weakness does NOT reside mostly in these ridiculous lightweights in power ... but in the American people themselves (even among the moron horde, as demonstrated frequently). 

122 And, to think, laughing at Achmed the dead terrorist is supposedly racist... Can we change his name to Packi the Post-mortum???

123

From some of the posts on this thread, I'm reading that some people suspect the NYT's sudden discovery of Pakistani double-dealing and perfidity is an attempt to wag the dog and draw attention away from domestic issues, which aren't going so well for the Obama Administration.

 

I disagree. There just happens to be a lot of bad news on both domestic and foreign policy fronts. Fortunately for the MSM and the Democrats, most of these problems can still successfully be blamed on Bush, so they've got that going for them.

124 Pakistan = brown people = you're racist.

125 Overheard in the     NY Times    newsroom,    2024:     Guys!   Guys!   Listen!   Did you know that Che Guevara was a fucking terrorist?   MIND BLOWN, you guys.  MIND. BLOWN.

126 Turkey, Syria and sarin. Oh my.

127 US foreign policy is in shambles. But elections these days arent won on foreign policy. They're won on Free Shit and on who'sthe cooloer candidate.

128 If the missing 777 isn't in the water, it's hidden in Pakistan. Pakistani's love hiding things from the USA. They're also very good at building atomic bombs. Great "allies," eh?

129 Once again, we must say what Bush knew in 2003. We had accomplished our mission in Afghanistan. There was really nothing more we could do. It was never the good war, it was simply a necessary target after 9/11.

130 All along it was Musharraf. Ahmadinnerjacket was just a pimp.

131 Pretty easy.

It's "Blame Booooosh."


Yep.   Especially when you've got the "elites" in the GOPe proclaiming that Jeb is THE CANDIDATE for 2016.   Get that Bush    Derangement Syndrome reheated and ready to go!

132 NYT Editor Jill Abramson recently said that Obama's administration has become the most secretive administration evah. Like, it *just* happened. Never mind that Obama's been keeping secrets locked down since he ran for office (college records, records while he was a State Senator, etc.). But yeah, this just in!111!!!: Obama is secretive.

133 NY Times reports that new Mayor DeBlasio leans a tad bit to the left.

134 We have met the enemy and they be us.

135 This just in: The State Dept is full of idiots, commies and muzzie appeasers. Â….and who THE HELL is that silly adolescent snot with the blonde hair and goggles?

136 WTF..
Our own Caligula (Obama) would do something about the Pakistani's and their hatred of the US..


Our Naivete in this country is epidemic..

137 I believe Musharaff  provided too much help to the United States and this pissed off the Islamist power in the government and that is why he was targeted for treason.   It didn't help that  power players in the States were calling for his head also. 

138 US foreign policy is in shambles. - Everybody else is on the wrong side of history.

139 BREAKING NEWS!  Michael Mann may have fudged climate data to   make    it look like global warming was a lot worse than it actually was.


-NY Times, c.2035

140 Ouch! Did anybody get the license number of that hit and run thread???

141 The NY Times has reporters? I thought they only had fellow travelers?

142

Other than as an easy launch point for vicious satire, is the absurd statement by a NYT reporter that Pakistan "tricked" the US to be taken the least bit seriously?

 

Look, the intellectual firepower and practical intelligence of a huge portion of the career for. pol/nat. sec. establishment (NOT just the Obama cretins) is shockingly low.  And has been.  For a long time.  (recall the "leaks" of  idiotic opinions by "intel officials" under  Bush, especially during the 15-month long "rush to war" in Iraq - ya know, actually fighting enemies of the US will .... create enemies!)

 

The UKR visit by DCIA is hilarious.  Even doing it was stupid.  Confirming it?  We are so far past non-credible bad comedy in US foreign policy, words fail.

 

143

Meant to say, NYT reporter comments are idiotic, our for. pol. establishment is often pathetic in its own right, but nobody was ever "tricked" into thinking Pakistan was anything more than a mess, and often a foe.

 

144 141 Ouch! Did anybody get the license number of that hit and run thread??? It said something something something RAYCISS!

145 The UKR visit by DCIA is hilarious. Even doing it was stupid. Confirming it? We are so far past non-credible bad comedy in US foreign policy, words fail.

Posted by: non-purist at April 14, 2014 01:52 PM (afQnV)

Hence why the    Russkies have no problem   buzzing   our Navy ships   with    their fighter planes, like Maverick buzzing the control tower in Top Gun.    We are an unserious nation.

146 I don't buy her claim that he tricked the US into believing they were an ally. Only a person with a naïve sense of foreign policy would ever consider a country in that region an ally (other than Israel). All countries serve their own interest. Bush said he looked into Putin's eyes, yet he promised eastern Europe missile defense. Who mistook whom?

147 Anyone besides me read the story of the Russian fighter jet that has been buzzing the USS Donald Cook for the last 90 minutes? Within 1000 feet.

148 CIA - There was a weather monitoring airplane that went off course TFG - No, that was our badass U2 spy-plane that Idesigned.

149 non-purist beat me to it, but exactly right.

150 70 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list? Posted by: grammie winger at April 14, 2014 01:30 PM (oMKp3) His granny bankrolled that trip. He went there for the hashish.

151 Pakistan should receive a complimentary nuking for hiding OBL all of those years. Then let India loose to clean up the scraps. Anyone helping, assisting, financing, or had anything vaguely to do with 911 should be reaping a mouthful of ashes. That tends to discourage repeat offenses.

152 The Deuce you say.

153 I don't buy her claim that he tricked the US into believing they were an ally. Only a person with a naïve sense of foreign policy would ever consider a country in that region an ally (other than Israel). All countries serve their own interest.

Posted by: SH at April 14, 2014 01:54 PM (gmeXX)

And even Israel, while our truest ally in that corner of the world, will, at the end of the day, be more concerned with their own self-interest than with their alliance to the United States;   justifiably so.   Any country allied with the United States at this point who isn't looking    with worry    at how we're    handling the Ukraine situation         is a silly country indeed.

154 Anyone besides me read the story of the Russian fighter jet that has been buzzing the USS Donald Cook for the last 90 minutes? Within 1000 feet.

Posted by: navybrat at April 14, 2014 01:54 PM (JgC5a)

It actually happened on Saturday night.  

155 Anyone besides me read the story of the Russian fighter jet that has been buzzing the USS Donald Cook for the last 90 minutes? Within 1000 feet. Posted by: navybrat at April 14, 2014 01:54 PM (JgC5a) A 30 year old unarmed russian jet design buzzing a rapidly shrinking US Navy due to budget cuts. Cold War circa 2014

156

Look up Ahmad Shah Massoud.  He told us before September 11, 2001 that the problem was Pakistan.  Massoud was killed on September 9, 2001.  He was one of the greatest fighters in Afghanistan and supported the West.  He knew. 

157
When obama travelled to Pakistan as a young muslim student you think he would have picked up on a couple of things.

158 Since the border between Pak and Af is a british creation anyway...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durand_Line

159 Hey have yu all heard that guys sometimes cum in a girls mouth after saying they will not?

160 Bush said he looked into Putin's eyes, yet he promised eastern Europe missile defense.

The missile defense was to protect eastern Europe (Poland, Czech Republic).

161 Anyone besides me read the story of the Russian fighter jet that has been buzzing the USS Donald Cook for the last 90 minutes? Within 1000 feet.

Posted by: navybrat at April 14, 2014 01:54 PM (JgC5a)

 

 

---------------------------------------------

 

 

We  not care.  We buzz all day long.  We have the fun with American navy, dah? 

162 We were giving billions to Pakistan to buy their assistance with the war. If the war stopped, the money would dry up. The U.S. government, unwittingly, basically hired Pakistan to prolong the war in Iraq as long as possible.

163 158
When obama travelled to Pakistan as a young muslim student you think he would have picked up on a couple of things.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 14, 2014 01:59 PM (hUf/y)

He picked up some hash and a muslim education and the ISI and the Saudis picked him up as an agent.

164 Oh noes.  Not the Pock ee stawn of his youth!

165

Oh, upthread someone had a funny comment about the first clue being "stan" in the name (of the country, Pakistan).  Well done.

 

But to put on the nerd hat for a second, that's just a suffix/word root translating as "land"  (like "Deutschland" would literally translate as "German Land").  For example, Armenia's name - in Armenian - is "Hayastan".  And Armenia - while a solid Russian partner, now and forever, for good reasons of geography and the hostile/batshit crazy neighbors that surround them - is no hotbed of Islamism, to put it mildly.  Nor, obviously, of anti-Americanism.

 

And the eggplants I saw there in the Yerevan downtown farmer's market one August in the 90s were the most purple, beautiful ones I've ever seen (sadly I'm not really into eggplant).

 

 

166 The incredibly warm, tough, rather brave Paki guys who staffed a lot of the support operations in Iraq? I'll take them over 80% of the US populace, any day. Posted by: non-purist With ya on that. My experience with Paki politicians, ISI and military have been that the ISI are snakes while the politicians happily lied through their teeth to their own military quite often. The Pentagon, unfortunately has also had a habit of developing close ties with military-political factions and then suddenly changing allies, leaving helpful assets very very angry and ready to turn. This must trace back to intel and Pentagon internal policy fights but the real world effects might well lead to nuclear disaster eventually. But hey, if you are retired and go out on top it's not your fault right? Top. Men.

167 >>When obama travelled to Pakistan as a young muslim student you think he would have picked up on a couple of things. Well, he went with his boyfriend - does he need more than one?

168 Look, the intellectual firepower and practical intelligence of a huge portion of the career for. pol/nat. sec. establishment (NOT just the Obama cretins) is shockingly low. And has been. For a long time. THIS^^^^^^ Where else can you fail upward? This is why all of these clowns want to work where who you know is more important than what you know or even what you do. With guaranteed advancement and raises for time spent, regardless of how you do your job. That we would willingly give this much power over our lives to these subretards simply boggles the mind.

169 I remember in the debates Rick Santorum trying to make the case that we should still be sending billions to Pakistan in foreign aid even after it was obvious the country was hiding Bin Ladin because they were dangerous.

They're not an ally, at some point this becomes a ransom.  If we're afraid they'll use their nuclear stockpile against the US, then we need to take the appropriate military action.

170 OT: On 60 Minutes Sunday, CBS aired an interview with President Obama about his impression of Pope Francis after he met with the Pontiff at the Vatican in March. “He’s a wonderful man. He projects the kind of humility and kindness that is consistent with my understanding, at least, of Jesus’ teachings,” Obama explained. - "The difference," Obama explained, "is that the Pope likes Jesus and I don't."

171 Problem with all this genuflecting is, our Intel guys (and even the GIs) know\knew the Packi's were double-dealing, with loyalties elsewhere. Remember them shutting down the road life-line for the transport convoys? All a labour mis-understanding.... Remember them opposing flights inside their borders? - Their ATA couldn't handle the strain Going into the Tribal Lands to tag the Tali's? It will only enflame them to hate us more. Whatever happened to a simplier RoE\RoC? We need a Patton or Ike at the helm, not this crowd of posser stars.... and to just win for our survival.

172 OT to lighten the mood:   dickish boyfriend likes to scare his girlfriend.


http://youtu.be/qSnYNquYVuA



I'm going to have to go with "staged".  No girl would stay with a guy like that. 



P.S.  I like to scare my wife too, but I pay for it.  Dearly.

173 Bush said he looked into Putin's eyes, yet he promised eastern Europe missile defense. The missile defense was to protect eastern Europe (Poland, Czech Republic). ----- I know. My point was that Bush's words indicated he trusted Putin, but his actions indicated otherwise. Bush would have known better than to ever accept Russia as an ally (in the sense that the NYT reporter is using it). So why would he have thought it of Pakistan, which is the sworn enemy of who Bush was really trying to court as an ally.

174 We can't turn our back on old allies! /

175 I know. My point was that Bush's words indicated he trusted Putin, but his actions indicated otherwise.

Ah, got it.  The "yet" confused me.

176 All gay all the time At the close of the White HouseÂ’s Easter Prayer Breakfast on Monday, President Barack Obama unexpectedly turned the floor over to Gene Robinson, the first openly gay Episcopal bishop.

177 SO

178
"The difference," Obama explained, "is that the Pope likes Jesus and I don't."

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 14, 2014 02:01 PM (XUKZU)

doom; coming, it is.  Soon

179 BREAKING NEWS!     Islam disapproves of homosexuality!!!


-NY Times, c. 2048

180 One of the few arguments that Iraq was the wrong war that I'll entertain is "Because the right war was Pakistan."

I think this is *the* argument against Iraq.  Yes, it's got terrific strategic value, *if* you plan to use it.  It's not clear Bush had any plans to, and we know it was a non-starter once TFG was elected.

One of the things W. did very very right in this regard was to strengthen our relationship with India, so of course Preznit Ladies Tee's been doing anything he can to blow that up.

181 Nood

182 I think I agree with non-purist on a lot of this. I've spent a lot of time in Afghanistan, and trust me, the Afghans are under no illusions about Pakistan. They know that the Taliban are supported and run out of Pakistan, and always have been.

I do believe that Pakistan is at war with itself. There is an anti-India Islamic military-industrial complex that is training and supporting the Afghan Taliban, and Musharraf was front and center part of that. There is also a modernizing, Western-oriented faction that is currently running the government, at least until the military takes over again. The Pakistani Taliban certainly has ties to the Islamist militarists, and so there really isn't a lot of enthusiasm among the military to try to root them out. They would much rather go after the Baluchi separatists.

But to say "Pakistan" supports the Taliban and is the real enemy is too simplistic. It would be like saying the "USA" supports Obamacare, which clearly is not the case. The real enemy is the anti-India Islamist military-industrial complex in Pakistan, which is very powerful and sometimes, but not always, runs things. We should be more supportive of the current government, for example as it tries to put Musharraf and his cronies on trial for war crimes and corruption.

183 New post is up.

184 another similarity between BHO and the Pope is that neither has relations with wimmen.

185 And then there's all the double-dealing shit we don't know about this regime.  Be afraid.  These people are capable of anything.

186 Pakistan is and has always been a failed nation state. It is a collection of poorly run regions operating with a high degree to autonomy and tribal, not national loyalty.
So this is news to the NYT, really.

187 How Prince Charles and Martin Amis had a dinner party row over Salman Rushdie's fatwa: Prince of Wales thought The Satanic Verses was offensive to Muslims That plus his envirowhacko ideas -- the UK is screwed.

188

29Victor, not sure what Pakistan had to do with Iraq, period.  Far more Paki citizens supporting Coalition forces as contractors than participating in enemy activities (Chechens, Syrians, and of course Pasdaran were the keys there).

 

And as to prolonging the war in Iraq - don't look beyond the US command and leadership for that.  There was a reason why "the surge" worked so quickly, and so easily (by normal historical standards).  Was never more than a matter of the US deciding, finally, to do something, and prevail, and ditch the absurd war college crap that had hobbled us for years.  Some time ask me about the corps commander's final meeting with the reconstruction group, and what it showed about the unbelievable incompetence of senior US military leadership.

 

189 ..So she's saying the lumps-of-idiocy we employ as Middle Eastern diplomats really believed that the Pakis we bought off with "foreign aid" and "investment in infrastructure" and the like, were going to STAY bought off? Hahahahaha! Stupid Americans!

190 "The difference," Obama explained, "is that the Pope likes Jesus and I don't."

My Musli...My Christian faith.

191 Btw 183, pretty good summary too. Pakistan is like an outhouse next to a shabby, but sprawling Indian mansion. The military leadership has an absolute phobia about India, to the detriment of the entire country. The preoccupation with India is amazing and hard to understand from a more logical pov.

192 Google: Barack Obama and his Pot smoking Pakistani roommate Sohail Siddiq Also, since everything outs Duh-O's mouth comes with an expiration date... ...from 2007..."Obama Delivers Bold Speech About War on Terror"

193 I'll note that every Paki-Indian war, EVERY ONE, was started by Pakistan. They've also lost every one, sometimes in a spectacularly incompetent fashion (the 1971 war over Bangladesh is probably the most relevant example).

194 India has the means to handle Pakistan in a messy world. But if we lose Turkey, which has been slipping away for a decade or so under islamist Erdogan, our world may be beyond repair without another "big one."

195 This brings us to the great, terrible truth behind the entire Afghan/Taliban adventure: from the beginning, the US was funding and arming both sides.

196 70 So why did Obama visit Pakistan back in the 80s? Was that country on anyone else's Spring Break list? Posted by: grammie winger *** Ask it loud. Ask it often. Of all the stories in the Obama stench hole that deserve more thorough airing than it has gotten, the 1981 Magical Mystical Muslim Tour tops the list. Q: Mr. Obama, at any time after you became old enough to vote, did you worship in a mosque, or engage in any Muslim prayer rituals?

197 Didn't Obama say something like this in one of the debates, probably with McCain?  I feel like this is being said as an excuse to bring up old War on Terror*  debates and attack us.

* - Remember that thing?  The nightly news sure doesn't.

198 Like, the Left has nothing in these upcoming elections, so they have to go back to their comfort zone of 2006-2008. 

199 Posted by: Powderhouse Rules at April 14, 2014 02:31 PM (Xv7f/) Q: Mr Obama, what is the sweetest sound you have ever heard?

200 Why does Obama say "Pockeyston" but not "Offgoneyston?"

201 I don't know about you guys but this seems the perfect time to write a billion dollar check to Pakistn. signed, xxoo Joe Biden

202 Whatever happened to a simplier RoE\RoC? We need a Patton or Ike at the helm, not this crowd of posser stars.... and to just win for our survival. Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at April 14, 2014 02:02 PM (zL/eJ) The solution is that a formal Declaration of War (as in days of old) for any military intervention that inextricably links members of Congress to the decision and the subsequent war effort is the only answer. If the Democrat (and assorted Republican) rat bastards in Congress want to backstab the troops after they have voted to support a "war", even the media couldn't completely cover it up. Batter yet, there is no vague international collaboration that can be blamed or that can screw the US as happens in every UN directed "adventure".

203 Major CLUE right at the beginning:  Remember Khalid Sheik Mohammad the mastermind behind 911 and the kidnapping/beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl?  One of his demands for the return of Daniel Pearl was that the U.S. government expedite their promised aid package of new F-16 fighter/bombers to the Pakistani government.  WTF?  This al Qaeda Lieutenant wants the Pak government to get better planes with which they will assumedly be bombing al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan?  Why would he want that? 

204 18 State media doesn't make these sorts of pronouncments without a go ahead from the machine. Now we have to figure what they're up to. Posted by: Kreplach at April 14, 2014 01:20 PM (HJcb1) He said it at Mle High when he was nominated in 2007.

205 Ace apparently JUST missed out on that coveted Pulitzer he coulda got for Snowden coverage. Snowden ain't about to go into any pen, or jail, or even holding area, ever, no matter what. Once establishment papers like the NYTimes and the Guardian get Pulitzers because of you you you and your little greenwalded butt buddy, it's book and late night talk show circuit time.