Ace of Spades HQ

February 09, 2014

Gun Thread (2-9-2014)
— andy

Nope, NYT, It's Not a "Stand-Your-Ground" Case

Our friend Andrew Branca is covering the Florida "loud music" murder trial of Michael Dunn at his blog, with crossposts at Legal Insurrection, and he's live-tweeting it when court is in session.

The gist of the case is that 4 men in an SUV were confronted outside a convenience store in Florida and asked to turn down the volume of their sound system. Words were exchanged and defendant Dunn wound up pumping nine rounds of 9mm into the SUV, including 3 that went into the rear quarter panel and window as it was fleeing the scene. One of the first 3 shots killed one of the passengers.

Defendant Dunn has claimed self-defense and says the victim was armed and that the passengers in the SUV must've gotten rid of their gun in all the confusion, which is why no gun was found on them.

The New York Times, of course, can't resist calling this case a trial of Florida's self-defense laws and "Stand Your Ground".

*sigh*

As Branca reminds us:

... Stand-Your-Ground deals only with the issue of retreat in the context of lawful self-defense. It does not authorize any greater degree of force, nor does it allow you to use force under any lesser degree of threat. You must still meet every other qualification for lawful self-defenseÂ—innocence, imminence, proportionality, and reasonableness. If you are the aggressor in the fight, for example, you donÂ’t qualify for self-defense in the first place, and Stand-Your-Ground has no application. In particular, Stand-Your-Ground in no way authorizes a Â“shoot first, ask questions laterÂ” approach to self-defense, despite what so many political activists have claimed.

From Branca's reporting, it seems pretty doubtful that Dunn has a valid self-defense claim at all. But that doesn't stop the NYT from propagandizing against self-defense laws anyway.

Related: The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit - The Law of Self Defense

Buffalo: Known For Its Sweet, Delicious Irony

More than a dozen cop cars, the SWAT team, K9 units and the Erie County SheriffÂ’s Air One helicopter swarmed Harvey Austin Elementary School in Buffalo on Thursday after reports of a man with a gun near the school or on the grounds. Dwayne Ferguson, head of the Buffalo chapter of MAD DADS, was taken into custody.

Why is this schadenfreudelicious, you ask?

News 4 interviewed Ferguson in March of 2013 at a rally in support of the NY SAFE Act. At the time, Ferguson stated the law did not go far enough.
Â“Our kids are not buying assault weapons, theyÂ’re buying pistols and theyÂ’re buying them right out of community stores and back here in the school. So this is serious. It needs to go further than what it is,Â” he said.

Guns for me but not for thee, eh Mr. Ferguson? Have fun in the legal system you advocated for.

(via an unnamed moron on the tip line)

Gun Of The Week

(answer below)
Marksmanship Award

#ArmedCitizen: Michigan woman defends her home & young children from an armed, masked intruder http://t.co/J1eP09s0JA
— NRA (@NRA) February 4, 2014

California homeowner foils home invasion attempt by firing shotgun, police say - http://t.co/Cu37en4NyB #NRA #ArmedCitizen (via @foxnews)
— NRA News (@NRANews) February 9, 2014

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the Smith & Wesson Model 76 SMG in 9mm. It's a knockoff of the Scandi Carl Gustav (a/k/a "Swedish K").

Wikipedia explains it thusly:

During the Vietnam War, the US Navy SEALs used the Carl Gustav m/45 SMG extensively. One of the gun's qualities which appealed to the Navy was that the M/45 can fire almost immediately out of the water (over the beach). It also saw use by CIA operatives and advisers. In US service it was largely known as the "Swedish-K" or "K-Rifle".[3] The US Navy was so impressed by the m/45 that when Sweden embargoed the export of weapons to the USA in 1966, Smith & Wesson was given the task of producing a copy. This was designated the Smith & Wesson M76. However, by the time when the M76 was ready for combat deployment, the US Navy had ended most SEAL missions in Asia.

I have an uncle who served on a PBR (Patrol Boat, River - think Apocalypse Now) in Vietnam and carried a Swedish K on that duty. He loved the thing ... still talks about it to this day.

Second Amendment applies to carrying guns in cars

From the Volokh Conspiracy at the newly-Libertarian Washington Post comes this reporting on a case in Ohio:

The view that the Second Amendment protects some sort of right to carry guns outside the home remains the minority view among post-Heller appellate courts, but itÂ’s a substantial minority, and this decision adds to that minority.

Read the whole thing. Despite the unfavorable landscape Volokh notes above, the trend is running in our favor.

(via CBD)

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

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Posted by: andy at 08:00 AM | Comments (157)
Post contains 886 words, total size 8 kb.

1 Happy ammo week at Wal-Mart!! The .40 line at Winchester has been working overtime, and I am the happy owner of a newly purchased "arsenal" of ammo. They still have a 3 box a day limit but they had 100 round boxes, and have had them for the past 3 days. Target rounds for 9, 380, 357, 38 still scarce. And 22 of course. Anybody have a .40 carbine they like? Think that might be direction I head next. Especially any morons with a just right? I like the idea of glock mag (which I have) compatibility.

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 08:06 AM (Z+Hb7)

2 So the Ohio case they say that according to McDonald and Heller decisions that is what scotus ruled. just don't read the comments. The stupid will hurt your head for days. I think this means that thousands of contradictory and confusing car/gun laws should be wiped away. Or is that being too naive?

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 08:08 AM (Z+Hb7)

3 I lost an MK 760 semi auto in an unfortunate boating accident.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 09, 2014 08:09 AM (TI3xG)

4 FYI guys, I've re-activated the LOSD2-AOS discount coupon, making "The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition" available to the horde for $15. Can also now request custom autograph at checkout. This only at www.lawofselfdefense.com. Kindle version still at Amazon for $10 Also, I'm covering the Michael Dunn "loud music" murder trial over at Legal Insurrection Finally, if your Law of Self Defense question picked as question of the week, win free book of snazzy ball cap. --Andrew. @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 08:10 AM (1gdVS)

5 Here's a link to a fun and information packed gun youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MiculekDotCom?feature=mhee

Jerry Miculeck is a famous gun guy and has probably been linked before. But if you have missed those links like I did this is a fun guy to watch shoot because you can tell he loves his job.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 09, 2014 08:11 AM (TI3xG)

6 Oh, yeah, I've linked Miculek here several times. Between him and Hickock45, my YouTube gun pr0n needs are completely satisfied.

Posted by: Andy at February 09, 2014 08:13 AM (vGQV1)

7 >> FYI guys, I've re-activated the LOSD2-AOS discount coupon, making "The Law of Self Defense, 2nd Edition" available to the horde for $15. Thanks, Andrew!

Posted by: Andy at February 09, 2014 08:14 AM (vGQV1)

8 Oh, yeah, I've linked Miculek here several times. >>

His take down of the 30 cal magazine clip politician was pretty funny.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 09, 2014 08:17 AM (TI3xG)

9 Andy, you tricky bastard! You got me! I blurted out, "Easy. Carl Gustav."

D'oh! The ol' "S&W M76" ploy. Devious.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 08:18 AM (celt+)

10 Hey Andrew, when I purchased your 2nd Ed. of the LoSD, there was an option to purchase a state specific supplement as well. Have you published the one for Texas yet?

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 08:18 AM (60Vyp)

11 i love hickock and miculek http://tinyurl.com/kzb6jyy [Video] EPIC: World Class Speed Shooter Jerry Miculek Fires 30 Cal Magazine Clip in a Half Second good stuff...mock the mockable

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 18 days (2wks 4days) until spring training at February 09, 2014 08:19 AM (u8GsB)

12 Ah, that discount coupon might use underscore, LOSD2_AOS. Try other if first doesn't work. -Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 08:19 AM (53Nsb)

13 Does anyone actually believe what the NYT, or any large market media for that matter, has to say about firearms? They're basically preaching to their "elite" patrons. And when I write "elite", I don't mean to imply that they're intellectual in any sense because they have no common sense. They live in their secure residence with zero concern for those that have to live in less secure circumstances.

Posted by: boned to the bone at February 09, 2014 08:22 AM (Ph479)

14 1 - Anybody have a .40 carbine they like? Think that might be direction I head next. Especially any morons with a just right? I like the idea of glock mag (which I have) compatibility.

-----------------

Traye, check this out:

http://www.mechtechsys.com

I'm going to be ordering a 1911 unit next month. I hear nothing but good things about them. It's a little pricey when you start adding in the necessary "options", but if you've got some AR-15 spare parts laying around, you can build something pretty cool.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 08:22 AM (celt+)

15 yo Via and OCJH, i'm going to send both of you two mags each

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:23 AM (At8tV)

16 >> D'oh! The ol' "SW M76" ploy. Devious. 60% of the time it works every time.

Posted by: Andy at February 09, 2014 08:24 AM (vGQV1)

17 so i'm building a new pistol frame for the range went to the car to get the screws.... one of the cats decided to hack up a hairball on the wood such is my life

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:25 AM (At8tV)

18 Thanks NCJ! And Taro...sweeet! I wonder how long it will take before someone develops something for other sized weapons.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 08:27 AM (60Vyp)

19 and now he's next to me looking all defiant i'd dry fire the beretta but its loaded cat vs critical defense = really pissed off T and nck

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:27 AM (At8tV)

20 Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 12:22 PM (celt+)

Have any experience with 6.8 uppers? I am really tempted, but don't know much about them.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 09, 2014 08:27 AM (QFxY5)

21 ncj

I posted on the other thread to send all of them to COJ.

He can use them.
I may in a few years, but no time soon.
I appreciate the thought though.

And Mrs VIA held the Kimber 1911 in Stainless 9mm today.
It goes on the short list after the Mk III.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 09, 2014 08:28 AM (DHj6D)

22 Obama's FaceBook movie:

http://tinyurl.com/lk5a8zq

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 09, 2014 08:28 AM (BZAd3)

23 I think the Florida case will result in the defendant being... *puts on sunglasses* Well-Dunn.

Posted by: Lt Horacio Caine at February 09, 2014 08:28 AM (Y5d0o)

24 21 will do my wife recently got her third Kimber she loves them

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:29 AM (At8tV)

25 Funny thing about an MK 760 in semi auto which is a clone of a clone of the Carl Gustav. If you accidentally forget to install all the springs correctly it becomes full auto. But in a bad way, once you pull the trigger it just empties the mag.

Posted by: The Hickster at February 09, 2014 08:29 AM (TI3xG)

26 Dammit I forgot the yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh. Eh well.

Posted by: CAC at February 09, 2014 08:30 AM (Y5d0o)

27 I saw 12 boxes of 50 rnd Thunderbolt .22 at Wal-Mart, and didn't buy a single box of it. /I denounce myself Fox was showing the video of the movie theater shooter in FL that shot the tweeter. He's going to go away for the rest of his life even without getting the death sentence, deservedly.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at February 09, 2014 08:31 AM (baiNQ)

28 Problem: thumping stereo. Wrong answer: shooting the vehicle up. Right answer: Caterpillar D6. (Man, according to Wikipedia they've been building those things since 1935. I had NO IDEA, my first exposure to them came in the '70s. Hell, that's longer than Porsche's been building their - to quote PJ O'Rourke - ass-engine Nazi slot cars. Looks like there's a whole post on the evolution of the Cat D6 that someone needs to write...)

Posted by: JEM at February 09, 2014 08:31 AM (o+SC1)

29 If you listen closely, you can just hear the gun control idiots blubbering...

http://tinyurl.com/n69lsj2

It's just not fair!!!!!!!!

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at February 09, 2014 08:32 AM (BZAd3)

30 A murder this past week here in Alexandria, Virginia, sent me to the local Home Depot to get a through-the-door viewer so I can tell if the person outside is my neighbor or a homicidal maniac.

Also prompted me to suggest to my wife that maybe she wants to go out to the NRA range with me again sometime soon and get comfortable with our .38 again.

BTW, Alexandria is about as 2nd-Amendment-hostile a town as you'll find outside Manhattan.

Posted by: BPSCG at February 09, 2014 08:33 AM (YO6qw)

31 27 He's going to go away for the rest of his life even without getting the death sentence, deservedly. why would he get the DP? it wasn't premeditated truly pathetic for a man who used a weapon professionally but not premeditated

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:34 AM (At8tV)

32 Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at February 09, 2014 12:31 PM (baiNQ)

Many people here have made the glaringly obvious point that when you carry, it is incumbent upon you to work hard to avoid situations in which you might have to use your weapon.

This guy deserves whatever they give him.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 09, 2014 08:35 AM (QFxY5)

33 For folks looking for new or reman 9mm, Freedom seems to have both in stock regularly now. I've been happy with them.

http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/53970.htm

Posted by: Fritz (not Fritz) at February 09, 2014 08:36 AM (U0t2o)

34 This thread's making my eye twitch.

Posted by: Bob Costas at February 09, 2014 08:36 AM (JQuNB)

35 "Have any experience with 6.8 uppers? I am really tempted, but don't know much about them."

-------------------

Me either. I've got three uppers in either 5.56 or .223, and if I get another, it will be for shits and giggles and be in .300 Blackout.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 08:37 AM (celt+)

36 >> Many people here have made the glaringly obvious point that when you carry, it is incumbent upon you to work hard to avoid situations in which you might have to use your weapon. If you spend the $15 on Branca's book, you'll see that this is his #1 self-defense rule. The rest of what's in there is worth infinitely more than $15, so I don't feel too bad about that spoiler.

Posted by: Andy at February 09, 2014 08:37 AM (vGQV1)

37 Navycopjoe, two questions:

1) Did you score that .300 Blackout upper?

2) Did the boresighting work out for you?

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 08:38 AM (celt+)

38 1 Happy ammo week at Wal-Mart!! The .40 line at Winchester has been working overtime, and I am the happy owner of a newly purchased "arsenal" of ammo. I just learned this week that WalMart has re-enabled the ability to check ammo inventory at their stores. It was very helpful.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 08:38 AM (PGXA8)

39 I saw 12 boxes of 50 rnd Thunderbolt .22 at Wal-Mart, and didn't buy a single box of it.

Posted by: Gmac-Pondering the coming implosion, and hoping its 404care at February 09, 2014 12:31 PM

I saw 12 Boxes of 50 Round Thunderbolt open for Smashing Pumpkins at the Universal Amphitheater in 1996

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2014 08:39 AM (aTXUx)

40 The CIA was a big fan of the Swedish K in Vietnam. So they swanned around the countryside in bright blue jeeps no one else used, carrying a weapon none of the regular forces carried.

This was how you know they were disguising their identities...

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 09, 2014 08:40 AM (XO6WW)

41 37 1. got a different one...its on its way 2. for the flip up sights and the green lazer the aimpoint was still shooting high and had to reset it

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:40 AM (At8tV)

42 38 I wish my wallyworld sold ammo the cheapest I can find here in .40 is boxes of 100 for $45 at sports authority

Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 08:42 AM (At8tV)

In unrelated news, I've got my chapter of BNI (Business Networking International) signed up to go to the local indoor range, after our meeting on March 7th.

Including myself, we've got 5 experienced shooters to help with the coaching. One-on-one, taking up one of their three "five lane" bays. They're also giving us free use of a classroom for the "chalk-talk" before moving on to the range.

Additionally, the Senior Rangemaster is volunteering his time with his safety briefing, as well as overseeing the event. He'll get to "harvest" any guests who want to move on to a more complete level of instruction.

We're going to keep it to .22 pistols, .38/.357 revolvers (with .38 spl, 148 gr. wadcutters only), and 9mm. I've budgeted 30 rounds per shooter, with an expected 20 shooters.

I expect that about eight of the shooters will be absolute "newbies".... and one of those a lifetime anti-gunner. But, she doesn't want to be left out. So.... let's see that huge smile on her face, when she discovers that it's FUN!

For every media-hyped shooting event, one such as mine can do wonders to enlighten the unknowing. Wish us well!

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at February 09, 2014 08:42 AM (vvk2F)

44 They have stores in Buffalo selling handguns to children?

Do they do mail order, too?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 09, 2014 08:42 AM (XO6WW)

45 Can the cobs put up an "Elbow Withdrawal Symptoms" open thread now that football is done?

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2014 08:42 AM (aTXUx)

46 Posted by: Andy at February 09, 2014 12:37 PM (vGQV1)

Yup...I'm about 25% of the way through the book, and it is an excellent read.

I am not a politician or otherwise connected, so I can't carry in NJ, but the information is excellent anyway, and applies to use in home defense.

My only complaint is that are no boobies, but then, that's my complaint about most things.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 09, 2014 08:44 AM (QFxY5)

47 Andrew, if you are still here or check in. In your last LI post about the Florida shooting, you mention your gun in a glove box and what is legal/not legal in mass. Is that something that could be wiped away if the new Ohio legal decision goes forward in a pro 2a manner?

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 08:45 AM (Z+Hb7)

48 Taro, et al....
Any suggestions for a buffer tube assy and stock for Mrs VIA's lower.
I need to finish that one so I can have mine back from under her 22lr upper.

I know I want to go MilSpec on tube size, and even though it's for a 22 upper, I want it to be of fairly good quality.
Nothing battle ready, but if for example, I ever want to go .300, I want it to hold up
And, as this is Maryland, buying and owning additional new lowers can be problematic.
So, what I have is what I have.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 09, 2014 08:45 AM (DHj6D)

49 BTW, Alexandria is about as 2nd-Amendment-hostile a town as you'll find outside Manhattan. Attitudes or local rules? If rules, what effect do they have?

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 08:47 AM (PGXA8)

50 2 So the Ohio case they say that according to McDonald and Heller decisions that is what scotus ruled.
just don't read the comments. The stupid will hurt your head for days.
I think this means that thousands of contradictory and confusing car/gun laws should be wiped away. Or is that being too naive?
Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 12:08 PM (Z+Hb7)

Ain't that the truth. One of the clowns brought out the "wrong side of history" trope.

Posted by: Buck Farack, Gentleman Adventurer at February 09, 2014 08:47 AM (Nk6GS)

51 I'm trying to convince the Grumpy Grandma she could easily carry a .38. Took her to the range and let her shoot a few different sizes from .45 down to .38 using semiautomatics and revolvers. She is definitely a fan of shooting the 4 inch S&W .357. She might get a pistol next week.....

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 08:50 AM (60Vyp)

52 The other week at the Wal-Mart in Pearl/Brandon MS I witnessed a guy wearing a cowboy hat shopping for food. At his hip in a holster was a nice automatic. And as far as I could tell, no one raised a fuss.

As opposed to a local quick-stop that has gas about 10 cents a gallon cheaper than the Chevron. The local store now has a handwritten sign in the glass door saying no firearms allowed inside. Well I will still get gas there but will not venture inside.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 09, 2014 08:50 AM (00E+O)

53 I've got three uppers in either 5.56 or .223, and if I get another, it will be for shits and giggles and be in .300 Blackout.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 12:37 PM (celt+)

That's a nice round.

I like the velocity of the 6.8, for no particular reason or use other than having more guns is always better.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 09, 2014 08:50 AM (QFxY5)

54 CBD I recommend printing pictures of teh boobies and place them variously in the book. Flip page, read, flip page, read, flip page, "oh hi boobies". "CBD, what were your favorite chapters in the law of self defense book?" "The ones with boobies!!!"

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 08:50 AM (Z+Hb7)

55 On the gun thing... That's local news here, and that little factoid didn't come up (to my knowledge, anyway, but I don't follow the local propaganda much). To me, it seemed crazy enough that the anti-gun nuts freaked out because - for a few brief minutes - there was a proverbial "good guy with a gun" present, who might be able to defend the kids if a psychopath were to show up to the shooting gallery they call a "school".

Posted by: Optimizer at February 09, 2014 08:52 AM (saDM3)

56 32 -

I think it's not unreasonable to foresee something less than a 2nd degree murder conviction. As facts are just now emerging, it will be possible to parse these facts in a way so reasonable people can reach a reasonable conclusion.

My contention, a few weeks ago, was that people were automatically assuming they knew the facts, which they did not.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 09, 2014 08:52 AM (BeSEI)

57 It's legal to carry a gun in your car in MS already (not a lawyer blah blah), so what I hope doesn't happen as a result of the Ohio ruling is that the SC decides no one has that right. That would suck.

Spotted this on Fox this am -- A Texas grand jury refused to indict a homeowner who shot and killed a deputy during one of those SWAT style invasions.

http://tinyurl.com/mafxv6o

Radley Balko is writing at the WaPo now about these type of stories as a regular blog under their Opinion section.

Posted by: GnuBreed at February 09, 2014 08:55 AM (cHZB7)

58 Quick rundown of some of the Outdoor Channel's gun shows on Wednesday:

"American Rifleman" - the NRA's TV show. Divided into three segments (feature story, gun review and I Have This Old Gun). The feature is generally either a really interesting historical piece, or a factory tour of one of their sponsors. The gun review is almost useless (as most are, because you can't offend your sponsors). IHTOG is great. And yes, they did a segment on the Swedish K once.

"Shooting Gallery" - meh. Rarely interesting, and Michael Bane increasingly strikes me as a bit of a phony.

"Shooting USA" - Jim Scoutten's program. Similar to "American Rifleman" with a much larger accent on competitive shooting. Often has a feature called "History's Guns" with the always informative Garry James demonstrating a famous gun.

"Rapid Fire" - mercifully absent from this year's lineup. A joke. Two chuckleheads firing full-auto. Very little technical or historical information on the featured weapons, but lots of ammo-dumping baboonery.

"Gun Stories with Joe Mantegna" - Fat Tony from "The Simpsons" hosts a worthy successor to the late, lamented (but often fact-challenged) "Tales of the Gun". My favorite.

"Field and Stream's Gun Nuts" - Don't let the boring production lead you to dismiss this. Dave Petzal and Phil Bourjailly actually provide excellent tips on shooting. You'll learn more of practical value from this show than any of the others.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 08:56 AM (celt+)

59 I think the Florida case will result in the defendant being...
*puts on sunglasses*
Well-Dunn.
( Â•_Â• )
( Â•_Â• )>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■ )

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at February 09, 2014 08:58 AM (/QAZd)

60 57>> Why was a county sheriff deputy participating as an LEO in a town in a county out of his jurisdiction? Something seems amiss in that story.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 09:00 AM (60Vyp)

61 The NRA needs to run a monthly article entitled "Stupid Armec citizens" with cautionary stories like this one. It would be a companion article to the regular "Armed Citizen" piece in American Rifleman.

Posted by: Smilin' Jack at February 09, 2014 09:00 AM (Xzj0B)

62 I think it should be legal to pump any person who thinks his music should be heard by everyone on the block full of lead.

Posted by: teapartydoc at February 09, 2014 09:03 AM (/hc1c)

63 57, from the way I understood the ruling, (which means next to nothing) is like this "we the judges, are not ruling what webelieve the law to be, but instead see from the supreme court's Heller and McDonald rulings that THEY have already dealt with this," effectively your car is an extension of your home. If that is correct, this has to be huge. But no-one else seems excited, so maybe I am completely wrong. That would make about the 978th time I have been so I wouldn't cry. (Maybe just a little)

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 09:04 AM (Z+Hb7)

64 One of the clowns brought out the "wrong side of history" trope.
Fighting for the rights of Russian gays to bare arms?

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at February 09, 2014 09:04 AM (/QAZd)

65 61 -

Why would the NRA need to do that? You already have legions of "journalists," armed with typewriters and tweeters, doing that already.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 09, 2014 09:06 AM (BeSEI)

66 48 Taro, et al....
Any suggestions for a buffer tube assy and stock for Mrs VIA's lower.
I need to finish that one so I can have mine back from under her 22lr upper.

I know I want to go MilSpec on tube size, and even though it's for a 22 upper, I want it to be of fairly good quality.
Nothing battle ready, but if for example, I ever want to go .300, I want it to hold up

-------------------

Well, I'm fairly new to the AR scene myself, so I can't say, "Brand X is great", but given your parameters, this looks like a good deal to me:

http://tinyurl.com/q2dz9kk

Complete mil-spec M4 stock assembly on sale for $45. Generally a mil-spec tube by itself will run twenty bucks, so the other $25 gets you a spring, end plate, buffer, castle nut and stock. The big question would be how good the stock is. I was going to pick this up for my Mech Tech, but I've got a line on a Mech Tech that already has the assembly on it.

Sorry I couldn't give you anything more solid than that.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 09:06 AM (celt+)

67 @ 49 - attitude. Fortunately, state law trumps local here with regard to gun rights.

But there are no rifle ranges in the city, nor gun shops. So I have to drive about 15 miles to the nearest range, which is at the NRA headquarters in Fairfax, and which, not surprisingly, is as fine a place to practice as you could imagine.

The predominant attitude here in Alexandria is, "We'd all be safer if nobody had a gun," and "Nobody needs a gun..."

Posted by: BPSCG at February 09, 2014 09:08 AM (YO6qw)

68 Guns and Underboob http://tinyurl.com/lfwmgao

Posted by: kbdabear at February 09, 2014 09:09 AM (aTXUx)

69 Here in Illinois, these stupid little "no gun" signs have been popping up on doors to businesses and churches. Now the psychos will know that there are no law abiding gun owners inside to stop their rampages. The stupid leftist hippie at work wanted to get some for our door. I told her that won't be necessary. The people who follow the rules are not the problem. How can leftists be so stupid?

Posted by: Chris M at February 09, 2014 09:11 AM (4lyMJ)

70 68 Guns and Underboob

--------------

Never has a conjunction done nobler (or happier) duty.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 09:13 AM (celt+)

Many people here have made the glaringly obvious point that when you carry, it is incumbent upon you to work hard to avoid situations in which you might have to use your weapon.

I do not carry a firearm (yet), but I realize that there are situations to be avoided. I have walked into fast food restaurants, stores, etc., and made a sudden U-turn if it even looked sketchy.

You walk into a place where "customers" are yelling at each other, and you know it is not the place to be. The 2-4 "tough guys" in the corner table. The drunk guy wandering around. the crowd of teens in the parking lot after 10pm.

If it looks sketchy, it may be. And you do not need the hassle if it is.

Posted by: rd at February 09, 2014 09:15 AM (D+lxs)

72 69>> Stupid little 'no gun' signs in Texas mean nothing. It has to be a very specific sign with very specific words posted in a very specific place to carry any regulatory significance. I am hoping that this next election will bring out an effort to do away with the concealed part of carrying a weapon. I'd much rather carry openly so I don't have to wear loose pants and over-sized shirts to avoid 'printing'.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 09, 2014 09:16 AM (60Vyp)

73 23 I think the Florida case will result in the defendant being... *puts on sunglasses* Well-Dunn. Posted by: Lt Horacio Caine at February 09, 2014 12:28 PM (Y5d0o) Puns aside it looks like he as guilty as hell. I know the defense hasn't presented their side yet, but without the teens' supposed weapon and some friendly witnesses he's toast.

Posted by: BornLib at February 09, 2014 09:20 AM (zpNwC)

74 I took the TX CHL course yesterday. The instructor was talking about the Zimmerman/Martin case and said that SYG hadn't applied because Zimmerman had gotten back out of his vehicle (in order to look at the street sign according to his testimony) and that showed he was "aggressive". WTH? That's not at all how I heard it explained here but he said that was the take of various TX D.A.s and high level law enforcement. Did I *totally* misunderstand what was being said here at the time or is *his* take incorrect?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 09:31 AM (GDulk)

75 I was late to last week's Gun Thread, so as promised, here's a bit of history... let's just call it, the origin of the HK G3:

http://is.gd/F4bXnl (Forgotten Weapons, a interesting YT channel)

And for the hickok45 fans (and those amongst you haven't seen him yet... an oldie, but a goodie... http://is.gd/t4Ju4Y

Posted by: CPT. Charles at February 09, 2014 09:32 AM (lJaja)

76 Swiss K31. Worth paying $300 for? And having to stock an entirely new caliber of ammo?

Posted by: toby928© at February 09, 2014 09:32 AM (QupBk)

77 Here in Illinois, these stupid little "no gun" signs have been popping up on doors to businesses and churches. Now the psychos will know that there are no law abiding gun owners inside to stop their rampages.
====
Eh, and last year they didn't need to put up those signs. Baby steps. As far as open carry, on theory, I don't have a problem. But as someone who works in retail, an open carry customer in a long line is a threat if he/she is static and not wearing a retention device on the holster. A fist to the head sucker punch, and a bad guy has a loaded weapon in the store.

Posted by: mrp at February 09, 2014 09:32 AM (JBggj)

78 Anyone besides me hear about the Post Office putting in an order for a couple billion rounds of ammo?

The US Post Office.

Posted by: navybrat at February 09, 2014 09:36 AM (AW7Gr)

79 I'm still mightily pissed that the boss didn't send me to represent at the Sushi games.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:37 AM (Dwehj)

80 17 so i'm building a new pistol frame for the range went to the car to get the screws.... one of the cats decided to hack up a hairball on the wood such is my life Posted by: navycopjoe at February 09, 2014 12:25 PM (At8tV) In many ways, ths is the Story of Obama. At least, the cat-horking part.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at February 09, 2014 09:37 AM (cgH9o)

81 67 attitude. Fortunately, state law trumps local here with regard to gun rights. But there are no rifle ranges in the city, nor gun shops. So I have to drive about 15 miles to the nearest range, which is at the NRA headquarters in Fairfax Ah, I hadn't considered the availability of places to purchase and use firearms. Although, having worked in a city in CA, I have heard stories about not permitting certain types of businesses within the limits, even if there was no official ordinance or policy ever written down. And yes, the NRA range is pretty nice, and they always had ammo.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 09:39 AM (PGXA8)

82 I really wanted to see the shotgun stage of the biathlon.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:40 AM (Dwehj)

Anyone besides me hear about the Post Office putting in an order for a couple billion rounds of ammo?

That's for the loan officers when Liawatha's new Post Office banking rules go in to effect.

Posted by: Ronster at February 09, 2014 09:40 AM (puNd6)

84 Anyone besides me hear about the Post Office putting in an order for a couple billion rounds of ammo?

The US Post Office.

Posted by: navybrat at February 09, 2014 01:36 PM (AW7Gr)

I saw it somewhere, maybe Drudge, maybe somewhere else. Kind of a moment . . .

Posted by: Peaches at February 09, 2014 09:41 AM (8lmkt)

85 Those miniature doors that the skiers shoot through are pretty cool.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:41 AM (Dwehj)

86 72 69>> Stupid little 'no gun' signs in Texas mean nothing. It has to be a very specific sign with very specific words posted in a very specific place to carry any regulatory significance. I am hoping that this next election will bring out an effort to do away with the concealed part of carrying a weapon. I'd much rather carry openly so I don't have to wear loose pants and over-sized shirts to avoid 'printing'. Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead ^^^THIS^^^ It's extremely difficult / impossible for me to carry on my body without imprinting so I mostly have to carry in my purse which I don't like. I can do it wearing a mumu or giant coat without taking it off. Doesn't work well in Texas summers and mumu just aren't practical.

Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 09:42 AM (PGO8C)

87 Many people here have made the glaringly obvious point that when you carry, it is incumbent upon you to work hard to avoid situations in which you might have to use your weapon. For the 28th time, carry a couple of cans of pepper spray ... with a gun, with other "items", by themselves ... just carry them. Working hard to avoid situations ... that's good advice, except that sometimes the situations don't want to avoid you. Spraying down 2-4 tough guys or a pack of teens is not as difficult or as risky as shooting them. There's something to be said for pistol-whipping a couple of the more problematic ones ... it sends a message, sort of like inserting bullets manually.

Posted by: Arbalest at February 09, 2014 09:46 AM (FlRtG)

88 Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 01:42 PM (PGO8C) I'm trying to figure out a design for a crocheted purse with a denim pocket to hold the gun. Think there'd be any market for such a thing?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 09:46 AM (GDulk)

89 Of course, I could never officially condone the shooting portion of any sport. What kind of message does that send to our chirruns?

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:47 AM (Dwehj)

90 Those Wisconsin cheerleaders are hawt. Bet they're good leftists, to boot.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:50 AM (Dwehj)

91 I'm probably not a good candidate for concealed carry because when a situation arose where I would be needed, I would probably crap my pants or start spraying lead like a monkey on crack. Or both.

Posted by: Ronster at February 09, 2014 09:52 AM (puNd6)

92 I have a hunch that my presence here is going over pretty much like a fart in an elevator.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:52 AM (Dwehj)

93 1 > Anybody have a .40 carbine they like? Think that might be direction I head next. Especially any morons with a just right? I like the idea of glock mag (which I have) compatibility. Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 I wanted a Kel-Tec .40 carbine until I found out that you can only get a gimp version in California.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at February 09, 2014 09:54 AM (h53OH)

94 Taro
Thanks for the link to the Buffer Tube assy.

only potential issues are the buffer weight looks to be standard, and I want to go with "H", and I can't visually see the complete end plate.

But, it looks to be worthy of deeper investigation, so I will be on their site for a while.
Thnx

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 09, 2014 09:55 AM (DHj6D)

95 The Post Office is just getting all that ammo to loan out to the Library Police. No worries.

Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at February 09, 2014 09:55 AM (/QAZd)

96 I saw Monkey On Crack open for Full Auto back in '08.

Posted by: Slow Uncle Joe Biden at February 09, 2014 09:55 AM (Dwehj)

97 I'm just not able to understand why it's wrong to pump a few rounds into a car full of unruly punks blaring their loud music in a public place. O.k. maybe more than a few... how about few 30-round magazines. It should be absolutely legal.

Damn punks.

Posted by: Why, it Earp at February 09, 2014 09:56 AM (i+I1A)

98 "And yes, the NRA range is pretty nice, and they always had ammo."

I'm glad you like the NRA range; it bought us another term of Harry Reid. Or vice versa.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at February 09, 2014 09:58 AM (XO6WW)

99 I asked Branca if he thought Corey might have bitten off more than she can chew, again. His response: If she can't get at least Manslaughter, she should go back to her modeling career I laughed.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at February 09, 2014 10:02 AM (DmNpO)

100 For Christmas, my daughter gave me some time at a U.S. Visual Training Center. Anyone familiar with this operation?

Posted by: Ronster at February 09, 2014 10:04 AM (puNd6)

101 "Finally, if your Law of Self Defense question picked as question of the week, win free book of snazzy ball cap. "

--Andrew. @LawSelfDefense

**********************************************************

Well, nuts. I ordered too early. If I send my copy back to you would you autograph it?

JK. Nice offer, Andrew.

P.S. I sent you an e-mail earlier today.

Posted by: creeper the Grammar Nazi at February 09, 2014 10:08 AM (C18D1)

102 EDIT, EDIT, EDIT!!!

Wrong copy @101. Should have been:
"Can also now request custom autograph at checkout."

Posted by: creeper the Grammar Nazi at February 09, 2014 10:10 AM (C18D1)

103 @ traye, 1st poster. I always bought the bargain box of 500 rounds of 22's at Walmart. Haven't seen them in years now. I gave up on finding .22's at Walmart. Gone are the days of 2-3 cent per round 22's. I just received a box of 5000 of aquila ammo. Its mexican and was 11-12 cents per round (Ouch!). Some people say it's great, others say it's crap. I will let ya all know how it does. I am hoping it's decent ammo. I never had a problem with other calibers of aquila.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at February 09, 2014 10:14 AM (cCxiu)

104
I'm kind of a simple minded person I guess, how can a straight forward reading of the 2nd Amendment not allow carrying in your car.

Infringement. How does it work?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 09, 2014 10:15 AM (n0DEs)

105

I took the TX CHL course yesterday. The instructor was talking about the Zimmerman/Martin case and said that SYG hadn't applied because Zimmerman had gotten back out of his vehicle (in order to look at the street sign according to his testimony) and that showed he was "aggressive".

WTH? That's not at all how I heard it explained here but he said that was the take of various TX D.A.s and high level law enforcement. Did I *totally* misunderstand what was being said here at the time or is *his* take incorrect?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 01:31 PM (GDulk)

I think your instructor was incorrect. However, I think he wanted to emphasize that getting into a situation is a bad thing.

(ask Andrew how expensive it can be, even if there are no charges!)

GZ would have been better off if the accelerator stuck and he had crashed his truck into the neighbor's house that night. He would have been better off if he slipped and fell and broke both of his arms.

His life was ruined by a race baiting lynch mob led by Ben Crump and a biased media.

Posted by: rd at February 09, 2014 10:20 AM (D+lxs)

106 Posted by: rd at February 09, 2014 02:20 PM (D+lxs) I asked how long Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck if *accidentally* encountering Martin again invalidated SYG (or, as actually happened *Martin* came looking for him) and he just said he didn't have an answer. He seemed to think Zimmerman had gone back looking for Martin though which leaves me thinking he never actually watched the testimony in court.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 10:24 AM (GDulk)

107 My Walmart is the closest one to NRA HQ. A few months ago (3) they started having 5.56 in quantity again. Then 2 months ago they started getting some handgun ammo .40, .380, .45 and about 3 weeks ago they started having 9mm again. I bought 50 round boxes for 10.37 last week. Have yet to see .22 there in the past year or so.

Posted by: blaster at February 09, 2014 10:24 AM (9ShqC)

108 Polliwog writes: "74 I took the TX CHL course yesterday. The instructor was talking about the Zimmerman/Martin case and said that SYG hadn't applied because Zimmerman had gotten back out of his vehicle (in order to look at the street sign according to his testimony) and that showed he was "aggressive". " That would be incorrect. --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 10:26 AM (8gaTv)

109 Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 02:26 PM (8gaTv) Thank you . I thought the whole thing sounded quite mad but he was *very* firm on the point. He (and TX law enforcement in some sort of conference) felt that Zimmerman would have certainly claimed SYG otherwise and that would have guaranteed not going to trial. I think he's being very unrealistic in relation to the outcome of a *closed case* (correct?) the president suddenly decides to insert himself into.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 10:30 AM (GDulk)

110 I think ill strap on the .45 and go for a walk. The temp is finally above 32. Damn global warming. Open carry is a good thing.

Posted by: Cartman at February 09, 2014 10:32 AM (Uo535)

111 @ Toby (76), Yes I think the K-31 is worth it depending upon the individual rifle. I have 2 (1 walnut stock, the other beech stock) but I collect miisurp rifles. A decent one will be less than to equal to 1 MOA. The problem is the ammo. That 7.5 x 55 GP-11 (K-31 was made to shoot that) surplus ammo has just about dried up. It is the best shooting surplus I have ever shot for accuracy. You may have to reload for that if you buy it.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at February 09, 2014 10:33 AM (cCxiu)

112 Polliwog: "He seemed to think Zimmerman had gone back looking for Martin though which leaves me thinking he never actually watched the testimony in court." He just doesn't have any idea whatever what he's talking about. None. I don't mind helping folks clarify misunderstandings or uncertainty, but I don't really have much time for people like that guy who don't even bother to learn the fundamental facts of the case and just make crap up. ESPECIALLY if they hold themselves out as professional self-defense instructors advising people on use-of-force law. For God's sake, for $15 he could have my book and know most everything there is to know about the law of self-defense. Anyway, on the particular point of Zimmerman exiting his vehicle--he did so SPECIFICALLY in response to the 911 dispatcher asking him to identify in what direction Trayvon had run. Because Trayvon had turned a corner, it was impossible to know this information without exiting his vehicle and looking around the corner. It's likely the dispatcher, had he known this was necessary, would not have had Zimmerman exit, but he didn't know, and Zimmerman's interpretation of the request was a reasonable one. Covered in all its wondrous glory here: http://is.gd/OG1k58

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 10:37 AM (8gaTv)

113 @74 Polliwog, Good at ya on the TX CHL. My wife and I both have one. I carry all the time. Be advised they hold us CHL guys to a higher level of responsibility. When some one cuts me off in traffic or is acting like a jerk playing loud music I just let them go without a word. It's because I don't want the road rage or situation to escalate. If that guy blocked my car and got out and broke through my window I would have to shoot his dumb ass. And I don't want to have to do that. An armed society is a polite society.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at February 09, 2014 10:40 AM (cCxiu)

114 Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 02:37 PM (8gaTv) Thanks again. I've got your book but still need to actually read it. Hadn't planned on taking the CHL course when I got up in the morning (just a general safety one) so unfortunately was not as prepared with info as I ended up needing to be.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 10:41 AM (GDulk)

115 Polli, There might be a market depending on design/ style. Go to the Crossbreed holster site and look at the purse holster set up/rig that they have. It can be moved from purse to purse. I'm looking at getting one.

Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 10:42 AM (PGO8C)

116 Polliwog writes: "109 Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 02:26 PM (8gaTv) Thank you . I thought the whole thing sounded quite mad but he was *very* firm on the point. He (and TX law enforcement in some sort of conference) felt that Zimmerman would have certainly claimed SYG otherwise and that would have guaranteed not going to trial." Head ---> Table. SYG has nothing to do with "not going to trial," at least not more so than any other condition of self-defense law. What he was trying to talk about was self-defense immunity. In FL, one can request a hearing, either prior to or during the trial, and if the judge determines that it was more likely than not you were acting in self-defense, you are granted immunity from criminal prosecution and civil suit. This has NOTHING to do with a duty to retreat, which is what SYG relieves you from. And SYG has NOTHING to do with self-defense immunity, unless it happens that the issue of retreat is a meaningful factor in whether the act was lawful self defense (making SYG no more significant to self-defense immunity than if you were the aggressor, or used excessive force, or acted unreasonably). SYG, self-defense immunity, presumptions of reasonableness, these are all distinct legal concepts in the law of self-defense. Any instructor conflating them should face at least a pimp-slap. --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 10:42 AM (8gaTv)

117 VIA, I wanted a H2 buffer and an H for two different builds, so I bought an H3 and swapped weights with the standard carbine buffer to yield an H and an H2. Removing the plastic cap was a PITA, but I saved a few bucks.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at February 09, 2014 10:43 AM (celt+)

118 The view that the Second Amendment protects some sort of right to carry guns outside the home remains the minority view among post-Heller appellate courts, but itÂ’s a substantial minority, and this decision adds to that minority. 'Shall not be Infringed' sure seems to be replete with ambiguity to some people, doesn't it?

Posted by: --- at February 09, 2014 10:46 AM (MMC8r)

119 O/T Since there are a lot NC morons lurking here and we have "The Storm" of the winter coming a hint. When they tell you they are out of de ice, go buy some pool salt at Home Depot or Walmart or a pool supply store. It's cheaper and it works. It's fucking salt.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 09, 2014 10:46 AM (0FSuD)

120 I took the TX CHL course yesterday. The instructor was talking about the Zimmerman/Martin case and said that SYG hadn't applied because Zimmerman had gotten back out of his vehicle (in order to look at the street sign according to his testimony) and that showed he was "aggressive". WTH? That's not at all how I heard it explained here but he said that was the take of various TX D.A.s and high level law enforcement. Did I *totally* misunderstand what was being said here at the time or is *his* take incorrect? Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 01:31 PM (GDulk) ------------------------------------------------------------- Your CHL instructor is, like most CHL instructors, wrong as two left feet. Z-man was flat on his back, and had no way to retreat if he wanted to. It was a simple self-defense case. My CCW instructor here is a local police officer. He made all sorts of outlandish claims about how he could arrest any one of us at any time for 'brandishing' if he saw a gun print on your shirt/jacket. It was pointed out that this is a Constitutional carry state. Open/concealed without permit (I keep my permit active because it allows me to carry in places not available to non-permit holders, and I don't have to go through NCIS every time I buy at the local gun shop). He said, yeah, you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at February 09, 2014 10:49 AM (ial2b)

121 I must be in Wal-Mart sweet spot. Things got spotty but never disappeared. Even 22lr. In the last year I have probably bought 3-4000 rounds at a nickel per round. I have in my own way rewarded their not jacking the costs when so many others did by buying as much as I could. Saturday and Sunday seem to be my luckiest days.

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 10:49 AM (Z+Hb7)

122 'Shall not be Infringed' sure seems to be replete with ambiguity to some people, doesn't it? No ambiguity! "Infringed" means that no right wing fringe groups should be allowed to have firearms in their possession.

Posted by: Your Betters at February 09, 2014 10:50 AM (PGXA8)

123 you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my Hate cannot be found) at February 09, 2014 02:49 PM (ial2b) There was *a lot* of that in the class. Apparently a citizen's interest in self-protection brings out the hidden Brown Shirt in way too many officers.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 10:53 AM (GDulk)

124 Look forward to reading your book when it gets here this week, Andrew.

Posted by: Infidel at February 09, 2014 10:53 AM (6bvBO)

125 heh, Dirty Harry saves 202 lb. lug's life (AP) Doug Ferguson, golf writer, Pebble Beach Golf kick-off gala film director saves golf director's life using the Heimlich maneuver the first time for Eastwood. "I looked in his eyes and saw that look of panic people have when they see their life passing before their eyes," Eastwood told The Carmel Pine Cone. "It looked bad." "I can't believe I'm 202 pounds and he threw me up in the air three times," John said, admitting he scarfs his food down too quickly, having been saved on a previous occasion by another volunteer performing the Heimlich.

Posted by: panzernashorn at February 09, 2014 10:53 AM (MhA4j)

126 How available is 380 ammunition? I liked the Bersa the instructor let me borrow much better than any other pistol I've tried. Someone on the ONT mentioned that it's a little picky about ammo and needs firm wrists or will jam (which I proved repeatedly yesterday between the range reloads and my floppy wrists) so how easy is it to get good ammo?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 10:56 AM (GDulk)

127 So anyone think Grandmaster Boombox and his posse will continue to play their music at ear busting levels after this incident?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 09, 2014 10:57 AM (oFCZn)

128 Traye writes: "47 Andrew, if you are still here or check in. In your last LI post about the Florida shooting, you mention your gun in a glove box and what is legal/not legal in mass. Is that something that could be wiped away if the new Ohio legal decision goes forward in a pro 2a manner?" The Ohio case and the MA law I mentioned are two different things. The Ohio case addressed absolute prohibitions against possessing a gun in a car, and finds that this presents serious 2A concerns. The MA law does NOT prohibit possession in a car, at least so long as you've otherwise jumped through the arduous hoops for possessing a gun in the Commonwealth in the first place. I carry in my car everyday, under my class A LTC, no problem. What complicates things in MA is that under MA law any gun must either be under your immediate control or securely locked up in some fashion. What's "under your immediate control" mean. On one end of the spectrum, if it's carried on your person it's under your control. On the other end, you keep a gun in your unlocked night table, whether you are present in the room or not, the gun is NOT under your control. In between those two is a big gray area. For certain if you leave a gun in your unlocked glove box even when you're not in the car, it's not under your control. What if the gun box is locked? Well, then it might be "secured," but there is (or was) a separate MA statute that prohibits a gun being left unattended in a vehicle, under any circumstances (the thinking being that if a thief steals your car, he's now also stolen your gun). (I include "was" in the last sentence because I've been told this rule has been relaxed in MA. I've never checked the veracity of that claim, because my PDW is always carried on my person, and I'm by nature disinclined to leave a gun unattended in a car, regardless of the law's requirements.) So, the Ohio decision would have no affect on MA law, as MA would simply respond that they ALREADY allow you to carry in a car--just under the restrictions I've described. And as long as they allow on-person carry--and that's pretty much all they DO allow--it would be hard to characterize their restrictions as meaningfully limiting one's 2A rights to armed self-defense. Having said all that, I have yet to read the Ohio decision, I'm relying solely on Eugene's piece about the decision. --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 10:58 AM (8gaTv)

129 125 heh, Dirty Harry saves 202 lb. lug's life But, but, butÂ… that cannot begin to compensate for him having compared Preznint 404Care to an empty chair!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at February 09, 2014 10:59 AM (HsTG8)

130 Duh!1 is a braying jackass.
At best.
Can't point this out often enough.
Maroon....

Posted by: backhoe at February 09, 2014 11:02 AM (ULH4o)

131 <blockquote>13 Does anyone actually believe what the NYT, or any large market media for that matter, has to say about firearms? They're basically preaching to their "elite" patrons. And when I write "elite", I don't mean to imply that they're intellectual in any sense because they have no common sense. They live in their secure residence with zero concern for those that have to live in less secure circumstances.

Posted by: boned to the bone at February 09, 2014 12:22 PM (Ph479) </blockquote>

common sense

Speaking of which, ask such folks if the believe they possess the Commonsense Civil Right of Armed Self-Defense?

They won't be able to honesty answer that without lying or denying thier right of Self-Defense.

Posted by: Biljana at February 09, 2014 11:03 AM (etx4B)

132 How available is 380 ammunition? At least at my local WalMarts, .380 defense loads are pretty abundant. I don't know about .380 FMJs because I don't shoot them. I don't know about other retailers.

Posted by: Your Betters at February 09, 2014 11:04 AM (PGXA8)

133 damn sock.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 11:08 AM (PGXA8)

134 128 Thanks. What you say makes sense. So if a state can dictate the manner in which you possess a firearm in your own home, they can do so in your car, they just can't outright ban it. I say if you are arguing a gun case, throw out making a 2a assertion and go with roe v wade and "right to privacy."

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 11:08 AM (Z+Hb7)

135 .380 ball ammo seems to be pretty scarce. As mentioned, defense rounds you can find. Gunbot

Posted by: Tobacco Road at February 09, 2014 11:12 AM (4Mv1T)

136 Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 03:08 PM (PGXA

Good to know, thank you.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 11:12 AM (GDulk)

137 I have always loved revolvers. Anyone know what a fair price on a S&W 625 is new? On the Smith and Wesson website it is listed at ~$1000 for the JM version but on various auction sites I am seeing $600-$700 for used. I have not checked my local gun store because I am in the process of moving and have not gotten my DL switched over yet.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 09, 2014 11:13 AM (TGgNi)

138 Posted by: rd at February 09, 2014 01:15 PM (D+lxs) In most large cities, you may as well just stay at home with that attitude! /

Posted by: Meremortal at February 09, 2014 11:14 AM (1Y+hH)

139 Polliwog, I bought a hi point (don't laugh) 380 and have shot the pee out of it the past six months. Probably 1000 rounds of fmj, federal, Winchester, and Remington all at Wal-Mart. About $.35 per round. Seems to be just a little more than 9mm. If you have a range near you that has the Taurus 380, go shoot it and ask the range master about the gun. I have heard they are very reliable.

Posted by: traye at February 09, 2014 11:15 AM (Z+Hb7)

140 Do ankle holsters work with cowboy boots? Asking for a friend...

Posted by: Meremortal at February 09, 2014 11:17 AM (1Y+hH)

141 So anyone think Grandmaster Boombox and his posse will continue to play their music at ear busting levels after this incident? Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 09, 2014 02:57 PM (oFCZn) I don't know, but he doesn't have to buy any of those bullet hole decals now.

Posted by: Meremortal at February 09, 2014 11:18 AM (1Y+hH)

142 @ 126 Polliwog, That is smart, trying different pistols in various calibers firsthand. Thats the way to do it. Find one that suits you. 380 is a very popular cailber. I don't have one but have heard it is in short supply sometimes due to the popularity. My usual carry pieces (unless I want to go outlandish) are CZ-82's. It is an old Czech military pistol made in the 80's. All steel, simple browning blow back design that can be taken apart easily. They have polygonal rifling in the barrel. (sort of smooth waves instead of the distinct lands and grooves of normal rifling). They are very accurate. Ammo is plentiful. It shoots a 9 x 18 mm which puts it in somewhere between a 380 and a 9 x 19 mm (normal 9 mm) in snappiness. (recoil and power) It takes a 12 round magazine, I've never had the thing jam. I have 3 and my wife shoots them all the time. Best part is they can be had for about 260 dollars (not including shipping, transfer fees etc.) Another pistol that takes the same caliber in the Radon p-64. It is an all steel Polish officers sidearm in service to this day. It takes the same round as a CZ-82 but only holds 6 in the magazine. Due to its smaller size it is a bit more snappy. I've never had one jam either. I have 2 of those. Small pistols are generally more snappy on the wrist. Good luck in choosing your ideal platform and caliber.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at February 09, 2014 11:20 AM (cCxiu)

143 I talked with two gun store owners in the past few days... both had been to the Vegas shot show and talked with ammo representatives... The .22 shortage seems to be because the larger calibers have a better profit margin and all the ammo makers can sell all they make right now so are running the larger caliber lines most of the time with periodic .22 line... Also of course there are many many new gun owners that are out there shooting up ammo... and many many gun owners that are stock piling... I would think that since you can't load your own .22 that that would make stock piling more likely for the .22s since most gun owners have a .22rifle and .22 handgun laying around somewhere or multiple .22s ( like a half dozen or so.....

Doesn't help having so many vocal gun grabbers in the dem party either.....gets the "folks" all riled up and in the stock piling mood.....

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at February 09, 2014 11:26 AM (Qa5IC)

144 I just learned this week that WalMart has re-enabled the ability to check ammo inventory at their stores. It was very helpful.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 12:38 PM (PGXA

And just how do you do this? I like to check inventory at one or two specific stores but the site doesn't make it easy to figure out how. TIA.

Posted by: Retread at February 09, 2014 11:26 AM (cHwk5)

145 I've considered popping some caps when I see someone with their elbows on the dinner table. It's about self-defense and manners.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 09, 2014 11:27 AM (oFCZn)

146 >>>I've considered popping some caps when I see someone with their elbows on the dinner table.<<<

Back in the day, the back end of a butter knife would bring many tears to the eyes of those who would defy the elbow rule.

Posted by: Fritz at February 09, 2014 11:34 AM (TKFmG)

147 Back in the day, the back end of a butter knife would bring many tears to the eyes of those who would defy the elbow rule.

Posted by: Fritz at February 09, 2014 03:34 PM (TKFmG)

As would the tines of any decent fork.

Posted by: Retread at February 09, 2014 11:36 AM (cHwk5)

148

@144

in the search bar at the top, just enter in your preferred caliber. When you click on a specific product, it should display somethig like "in stores only" and should tell you if its at your local store (you can either enter this manually or it makes a guess based on ISP). On the same product page there will be a link to find in other stores. Note that it displays stock status for win white box 40SW at least, but things like .22lr don't seem to have the availiviluty tracker turned on.

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 11:49 AM (4T5lL)

149 Polli have you tried the new Glock .380? I've heard good things about it. Stove piping and limp wrist/ weak grip go hand in hand. I use to have a Sig .380 that I had problems with. I use a Kimber 9mm now and never have had the same issues. I do well with the Glocks too. Did you see my post about the crossbreed purse holster?

Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 11:50 AM (PGO8C)

150 I should point out that the WalMart inventory thing is only updated once a day I think, so for something that goes quick it's less helpful

Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 11:58 AM (ihCPW)

151 Posted by: dudenolongerinsantacruz at February 09, 2014 03:49 PM (4T5lL)

Thanks. I'll go back and fiddle a bit.

Posted by: Retread at February 09, 2014 12:02 PM (cHwk5)

152 Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 03:50 PM (PGO8C) Saw your post. I'm going to wait a bit to file the paperwork since my birthday's in just a couple of month and I don't want to lose nearly a year of licensing. I haven't had much opportunity to try things out yet but a big incentive on the Bersa .380 was that I could actually load it myself without a stripper. I'm hoping that practice, where I'm not making others wait for me to finish the clip, will help with the limp wrist stuff.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 09, 2014 01:11 PM (GDulk)

153 My homemade huggie holster does not print at all in my pocket. It might look like I have a wallet, or maybe a ipod or some other device in there, but not like an automatic. http://is.gd/l4JykO

Posted by: toby928© at February 09, 2014 01:45 PM (QupBk)

154 CrotchetyOldJarhead writes: "10 Hey Andrew, when I purchased your 2nd Ed. of the LoSD, there was an option to purchase a state specific supplement as well. Have you published the one for Texas yet?" I'm sorry to say it has not, still writing it. If you've ordered and are tired of waiting, want a refund, just contact us via web site and we'll be happy to process. Only downside to a refund is you lose the pre-pub discount (I think it was 40%) and the pre-pub priority position (pre-pub orders are delivered ~ a month before post-pub orders). --Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Posted by: Law of Self Defense at February 09, 2014 01:51 PM (8gaTv)

155

Just to be clear, stovepiping and limp wristing are indeed, interconnected.

There are however, some steps one can take to minimize these events. First, stovepiping is a "Failure to Extract" fault. With a limp wrist, the body is allowing the recoil power to be absorbed by the arms and shoulders, and they're moving backwards, when it should properly be the SLIDE that is moving.

So, firming up those forearm muscles and having a slightly tighter grip on the gun will help create a stronger "chassis" (often called the "firing platform"), against which the gun can find the necessary RESISTANCE to movement, and thus the preponderance of that recoil energy will then be expressed by the slide moving FULLY rearward, resulting in a fully extracted, and successfully ejected, shell casing.

Proper breath control is a big thing in keeping your muscles properly tensioned at the break of the sear. I won't go into it here, but learn to breathe properly as you shoot, especially if you're firing off strings of multiple shots.

That said, it does not hurt to have your olde reliable smithy spend a few moments with the correct tools, and polish the chamber. Less sticky-case-itis in that extraction cycle. Have 'em shine up the feed ramp while he's in there, and the far less common feed-cycle stovepipe might be prevented, too. Oh, and do make sure that chamber is cleaned fairly regularly. All the polishing in the world won't help if there's a thousand rounds worth of crud baked onto the chamber walls.

Polishing the beveled contact area of the extractor claw helps, too. Let's it slide over a case rim that much more easily.

Finally, a very light touch with the crocous cloth to the magazine's feed lips will help ensure that there are no troublesome metal burrs there to snag rounds en-route to the feed-ramp and chamber.

By the way, the only Bersas I've seen which were picky with ammo, were those that hadn't had at least 200-500 rounds down the pipe. The more they're shot, the better they work. That applies to .380 ones, anyway. I haven't the necessary experience with their .22s to be able to render a qualified opinion thereof.

Do however, order up some Wolff springs, and replace whenever the gun starts to hiccup with any regularity.

Good maintenance and proper technique go a long, long way towards developing one into an accurate and effective shooter!

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at February 09, 2014 01:54 PM (vvk2F)

156 Looks like I jinxed my 9mm supply. All gone. Though another Walmart nearby had a couple of shelffuls of 9mm so I will go there in the future.

Posted by: blaster at February 09, 2014 03:44 PM (4+AaH)

157 Posted by: lindafell at February 09, 2014 01:42 PM (PGO8C)

Have you seen the "Flash Bang" holster? You probably can't carry a full sized 1911 .45 but for a short barreled .38 revolver or a pistol up to the size of a Ruger LC9 it looks like it should work under normal women's clothes, even in a Texas summer.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at February 10, 2014 01:29 AM (BcCwi)

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