February 06, 2014
— Ace From Monty's great post:
People without meaningful work and copious free time don't write symphonies or create great works of art. They don't live a life of the mind. They drink too much, or get in fights, or watch a lot of internet porn, or commit crimes. They don't contribute to the economy or culture, as a rule. They just...exist. And it goes on like that, sometimes for generations.Labor is the fate of all humankind. Always has been. We work to live. Work gives shape and meaning to our lives. It's not just the income we derive from it; it's the knowledge that we are able to function as adults in the wider world, and provide for ourselves and our families. It's feeling the satisfaction of having contributed something to the maintenance of civilization, even if it means we haul trash away or keep the grass mowed. It's all honorable work, necessary work, and not something to be ashamed of.
It's not an outrage, it's just the way things are. To try and embitter people about that, to make them feel that the natural order of things is unfair, is just to do an enormous amount of harm to the very people you're claiming to want to help.
Charles Cooke also writes on this philosophical disagreement we seem to be having with the left-- whether labor is a boon to be celebrated, or an evil to be avoided to the extent that an obese government may (temporarily) permit.
In a lovely illustration of the truism that progressives really havenÂ’t the slightest clue what it is that conservatives believe, the Huffington PostÂ’s Senior Congressional Reporter, Michael McAuliff, spoke for the cabal, suggesting ludicrously that,
There’s an irony in the GOP complaining that ACA lets people quit jobs. I mean, what’s wrong with freedom?To answer a remarkably misguided rhetorical question, there is nothing at all “wrong with freedom.” As Patrick Henry rightly argued, above all other things “liberty ought to be the direct end” of government, for, after that, everything else is mere indulgence. But there is an awful lot “wrong” with using the word “freedom” where it does not apply. After all, it is one thing for a person to choose not to work and to accept the natural consequences of that decision, but quite another indeed for a person to choose not to work because others are being forced to subsidize his well-being. One can reasonably attest that redistributing wealth to underwrite preferred social outcomes is “necessary” or “virtuous” or “kind” or “practical” — or even, more cynically, that it is the inexorable end product of a democratic system in which one man can vote himself the contents of another’s wallet. But one cannot claim that it makes either man “free” — at least not without twisting the word and the concept that it represents beyond all meaningful recognition.
Does the Obama administration really plan to make the case that negative liberty is but a mirage and that, the state of nature’s “forcing” one to work being akin to actual compulsion, the state must step in everywhere to liberate the citizenry from reality’s harsh claims? One suspects not.
Abraham Lincoln spoke a lot about the virtues of labor.
The prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land, for himself; then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him. This, say its advocates, is free labor---the just and generous, and prosperous system, which opens the way for all---gives hope to all, and energy, and progress, and improvement of condition to all." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Address before the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society, Milwaukee, Wisconsin" (September 30, 1859), pp. 478-479....
"Labor is the true standard of value." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Speech at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania" (February 15, 1861), p. 212.
"The world is agreed that labor is the source from which human wants are mainly supplied. There is no dispute upon this point." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Address before the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society, Milwaukee, Wisconsin" (September 30, 1859), p. 477.
...
"If at any time all labour should cease, and all existing provisions be equally divided among the people, at the end of a single year there could scarcely be one human being left alive---all would have perished by want of subsistence." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume I, "Fragments of a Tariff Discussion" (December 1, 1847), p. 415.
There are more quotes at that link.
Some time ago I think I wrote about Rick Santorum making the case that, in order to improve the economy and increase the productive vigor of the American people, we needed to increase the morality of the American people.
I half agreed. I do believe there is a strong relationship between the virtue of industry (as Lincoln would call it; we'd say industriousness, but that's so clumsy) and the other virtues. Virtues reinforce each other in a... virtuous cycle. I guess that's why they call it that.
But I wonder if Santorum didn't get the relationship substantially backwards -- that is to say, that it is less that personal morality promotes personal industry, but more that industry promotes other aspects of morality.
A job -- work, labor, industry -- creates a powerful moral climate for the mind. Work creates in the mind a definite and tangible relationship between action and consequence, the appreciation of which is the essential undergirding for all morality.
One's personal labors breed respect for other's personal labors. As Lincoln said, labor is the ultimate measure of value. When a man knows he has worked 30 hours to amass $600, and that the new television he wants costs $600, he understands, in a palpable way, the value of not just his productive endeavors, but those of the men and women who made the object he seeks to buy. It is this understanding that makes working men despise thieves.
When one works, one sees a bridge from the past to the future; one understands that one's labors on Monday produce a service or good deliverable the following Wednesday.
Work thus creates in the mind a fertile ground for the growth of other virtues, almost all of which rely upon the understandings which work affords -- the connection between action and consequence, the value of other people and their own strivings, the sense that progress -- betterment -- can be achieved by application of effort.
Work ultimately breeds a sense of autonomy, a sense of independence, and that which derives inevitably from those, a sense of dignity and self-respect, and self-respect in turn creates respect for others.
Conversely, idleness teaches none of these things, and indeed tends to teach the opposite. A man who receives a gift of money each month has no tangible understanding of the effort required to produce it and will thus tend to disdain the labors of others. A person who makes poor decisions but is shielded from the consequences of those by others' largesse will learn no lessons and have then no cause to seek his own betterment. And an idle person who has no sense of his own personal agency in the world -- no sense that he stands on his own feet as a free and independent actor -- will lack the feeling of dignity and self-worth.
People who are unemployed for long periods of time feel quite bad about themselves. This is both good and bad. It's bad that they have feelings of lacking worth; but the fact they feel this at all shows that they still have dignity and aspire to work.
But what of people who have either completely lost that feeling, due to being comfortably idle for very long periods of time, or who never had that feeling at all, due to growing up in an environment which did not foster a respect work?
And what happens when a government sets out affirmatively to promote idleness and, by relative comparison of cost weighted against benefit, discourage industry?
As Lincoln also said (same link as above):
"No country can sustain, in idleness, more than a small percentage of its numbers. The great majority must labor at something productive." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Address before the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society, Milwaukee, Wisconsin" (September 30, 1859), p. 479.
The opposite of a virtuous cycle is a vicious one.
Posted by: Ace at
10:30 AM
| Comments (591)
Post contains 1460 words, total size 9 kb.
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 10:33 AM (z4WKX)
Well, not always.
Posted by: Wimpy at February 06, 2014 10:33 AM (6TB1Z)
One thing you can say about about Abraham Lincoln. He knew the value of a good television set.
Posted by: Joe Biden at February 06, 2014 10:34 AM (8ZskC)
But what of people who have either completely lost that feeling, due to being comfortably idle for very long periods of time, or who never had that feeling at all, due to growing up in an environment in which did not respect work?
And what happens when a government sets out affirmatively to promote idleness and, by relative comparison of cost weighted against benefit, discourage industry?
Greece?
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 10:34 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Roy at February 06, 2014 10:34 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 10:35 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 06, 2014 10:35 AM (olDqf)
Posted by: Damiano at February 06, 2014 10:35 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Caliban at February 06, 2014 10:36 AM (DrC22)
This is why I despise the Left. They want to take the stuff I worked my ass off for and give it to fucking slackers.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 06, 2014 10:36 AM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 10:36 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: ace at February 06, 2014 10:37 AM (/FnUH)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 06, 2014 10:37 AM (p9JxP)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:37 AM (7ObY1)
In response to ACA CBO Report:
“It reflects the fact that workers have a new set of options and are making the best choices that they can choose to make for themselves given those options,” the official said.
Posted by: The White House at February 06, 2014 10:37 AM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 06, 2014 10:38 AM (olDqf)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 10:38 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 10:38 AM (VtjlW)
We have these places in America where all creature comforts are taken care of, food and health care is provided, and there is plenty of leisure time to spend not laboring or working.
Prisons and zoos.
Posted by: Roy at February 06, 2014 10:38 AM (VndSC)
But I wonder if Santorum didn't get the relationship substantially backwards -- that is to say, that it is less that personal morality promotes personal industry, but more that industry promotes other aspects of morality.
----------------------
It's been noted that throughout history, the middle class tends to be the group that adheres most closely to the society's moral standards.
Posted by: junior at February 06, 2014 10:38 AM (UWFpX)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 10:39 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 06, 2014 10:39 AM (2hTlI)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 06, 2014 10:39 AM (p9JxP)
Lincoln: Preserving the union, no matter the cost.
Obama: Dividing the union, as a means to an end.
Posted by: flounder at February 06, 2014 10:39 AM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 06, 2014 10:39 AM (olDqf)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (mg2aA)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (bCEmE)
well, it's not set in stone.
(sorry)
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (V2YFE)
As mentioned in the earlier post, Mike Rowe really "gets" this.
See his excellent TED talk about it here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html
Posted by: Lizzy at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (POpqt)
Posted by: backhoe at February 06, 2014 10:40 AM (ULH4o)
Posted by: --- at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (MMC8r)
Industry comes from virtue. We don't learn morality by being industrious, otherwise industrious criminals would repent and stop committing crimes.
Posted by: Hashim al el Nasrallaha at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (+QsTS)
I sort of grokked that the old man saw it as a Baptism of Sweat. He used to work right along side me at some truly awful jobs. As a retired Gunny he knew how to let me know when he thought i was slacking too.
Posted by: gushka can has Kittys what plays fetch! at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (f858s)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: mugiwara at February 06, 2014 10:41 AM (hRqkO)
Posted by: cu'chulainn at February 06, 2014 10:42 AM (Vk2CC)
Posted by: Vic[/i] at February 06, 2014 10:42 AM (T2V/1)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:42 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: --- at February 06, 2014 10:42 AM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Tami at February 06, 2014 02:40 PM (bCEmE)
Because it didn't go far enough?
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 10:42 AM (buZ/8)
When the gov't is the provider, or, more apt- all things to all people then, it begets one thing.
PEOPLE ONLY EXIST. THEY DO NOT ASPIRE. THEY DO NOT DREAM. THEY DO NOT PRODUCE. LIFE HAS NO MEANING.
THEY MERELY EXIST, UNTIL OTHER PEOPLE"S MONEY RUNS OUT.
Posted by: DefendUSA at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (nAHMK)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Vic at February 06, 2014 02:42 PM (T2V/1)
Yeah. I don't want another Ronald Reagan. I want another Calvin Coolidge.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (buZ/8)
The Left is whistling past the graveyard with this entire spin of theirs, that getting laid-off is freedom. If not having work is so good then the Kennedys ought to have perfect creative lives, right? Every trustafarian should be enriching the world with music, art, and literature, right?
The smell of desperation from the Democrats is going to get ranker than a diaper pail in July as this mess crashes onward. I don't enjoy living here while this is happening, but I do enjoy watching these arrogant fools try to convince themselves that everything is just peachy.
"Winning!"
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Manager's Special on Republican-brand Perfidy! at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (hLRSq)
I'll keep voting as a Republican as long as I feel it's still the Party of Lincoln. The day it doesn't, I won't.
Posted by: troyriser at February 06, 2014 10:43 AM (V9ol4)
Posted by: biancaneve at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (2sR50)
Posted by: John McCain at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: [/i][/b][/u][/s] Tami at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (bCEmE)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: Ayn Rand at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (CJjw5)
It seems to be missing in a lot of cases.
Another missing element: The application of the Golden Rule in business. Yes, have competition and strive to win. But don't do it at the expense of your character. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Posted by: Sphynx at February 06, 2014 10:44 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 10:45 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:45 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: traye at February 06, 2014 10:45 AM (PVy3a)
Posted by: Barry Soetoro at February 06, 2014 10:45 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: bonhomme[/i][/b][/i][/b][/s][/s] at February 06, 2014 10:46 AM (2hTlI)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 10:46 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 10:46 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 10:47 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 10:47 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 10:47 AM (g1DWB)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Judge Ace Smails at February 06, 2014 02:42 PM (V2YFE)
I've worked as a construction and general laborer. I had higher aspirations, of course (and in many ways achieved them) but was brought up to believe that honest work is honest work, and is to be respected. It should also be noted that attitude is really healthy when your college major was Literature.
Posted by: troyriser at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (V9ol4)
<<
There's always Saurian brandy distillation to keep you busy. Or making heavy duty condoms so Kirk can have his way with the green women.
Posted by: Sphynx at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (6bMeY)
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (A0sHn)
Posted by: SL at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (/RTvI)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 10:48 AM (NZcDt)
Great post by the way, thought provoking and rich.
Posted by: Dr Spank at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (38LLM)
Posted by: Mustbequantum at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (MIKMs)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: kevlarchick at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (+dlqq)
Posted by: Sulu at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (7ObY1)
Sex and control. That about covers the list of human motivations. Of the two, I'd put control at the top. I've come to the conclusion that the biblical tree of knowledge really means the realization of mortality, and the fact that we ultimately have only very limited control of our fates in the long run. Human history consists largely of people trying to evade that fact.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Chicago Union Boss at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: Barry Soetero at February 06, 2014 10:49 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: Judge Ace Smails at February 06, 2014 02:42 PM (V2YFE)
Yes, a sane world needs its ditches dug, its fields plowed, and its concrete poured, but, it don't need not one d@mn little bitty bit, its Womyns studied, cause, to quote, Dr. Sheldon Cooper, bitches be crazy. Please note that I said its Womyns, not its women. We need not waste the least part of a dollar to study Womyns, their talkative lady bits, and their gruesome predilection for pureeing unborn humans, because those bitches be crazy. We ought to spend our time and money studying humanity and how to improve it, not divide and subdivide it.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 10:50 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 10:50 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (6bMeY)
Posted by: Typical Leftwing Trust-Fund Dolt Who Sort of Works at a Non-Profit at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (Q9qpj)
Posted by: SL at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (/RTvI)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: backhoe at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (ULH4o)
♫ Freedom of choice
♫ Is what you got
♫ Freedom from choice
♫ Is what you want
Posted by: Devo at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (Q6pxP)
so who is to provide healthcare?
if everyone is taking that wonderous vacay from effort or work?
so some will actually have to work? to provide for others?
who makes that choice?
should there be a a benefit for expending x amt of calories to provide for others or are their efforts to be free?
so several days out if they have their dream of no effort required unless it's fun , but no benefit to it other than fun or good.
where's food supposed to come from? the seed? the water? the cloth for clothing?
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (nqBYe)
Amen!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (POpqt)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 10:51 AM (V2YFE)
It would be far better to talk about slavery for some and freedom for all, which is what those terms mean (in that order) anyway.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 06, 2014 10:52 AM (P3U0f)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 10:52 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 02:46 PM (VtjlW)
Well said. You earned what is yours through more than just the paycheck.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Manager's Special on Republican-brand Perfidy! at February 06, 2014 10:52 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 10:52 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: Dr Spank at February 06, 2014 10:52 AM (38LLM)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:53 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Democrat Party Motto at February 06, 2014 10:53 AM (hRqkO)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 10:53 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 10:53 AM (RJMhd)
We say: "We want you to be able to have jobs and opportunity."
They hear: "We gonna make you work!"
Posted by: HR at February 06, 2014 10:53 AM (ZKzrr)
Give me that back first. Then we'll talk.
I can't tell you how many times I've done that diatribe in my head, with somewhat less eloquence.
You in your 20s: vacation at Club Med
Me in my 20s: quantum mechanics problem sets. I owe you nothing.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 10:54 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 10:54 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 10:54 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson at February 06, 2014 10:54 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 10:55 AM (g1DWB)
I've said this before today, that I cannot imagine how this works out without the intentional die-off of a good chunk of the population. Some on the left are just nitwits but all too many of them know that a population of government dependents cannot be made to last. So the government seeks to elect a new population. If there is a shortage of drugs used to treat ailments most associated with the chronic woes of aging, don't be surprised. It's simply the government thinning the herd of the non-productive while reducing the number of people who can remember a different America.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 10:55 AM (bPxS6)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 10:55 AM (NZcDt)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 10:55 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 10:55 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Karl Marx at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (7ObY1)
What if you're not good at that? Art?
What if you're not good at that?
What drives anyone else to do anything with their lives?
I imagine there'd be a whole lot of row houses filled with people who never left the vicinity of the conveyor belt that comes out of the replicator.
Posted by: bonhomme at February 06, 2014 02:46 PM (2hTlI)
The star trek model doesn't work. Only in a fantasy-land. It would take a paradigm shift in human consciousness to want to work for free. Money is just a vehicle for us to abstract our efforts and time spent working on a task. You remove that and your back to the barter system.
I think we are far more likely to end up in a world where nobody but a few do any work with robotics replacing nearly every job mankind can do. You will be left with a population of pleasure seekers, drug users, and idiots with everyone on the government dole in some way. If we don't topple our modern way of life and destroy everything first.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (ZshNr)
There, that's better.
Posted by: SL at February 06, 2014 02:51 PM (/RTvI)
And, in the end, everyone becomes enslaved. Your physical effort is stolen. Their souls are crushed.
Screw all that icky free enterprise capitalism stuff that only results income inequality. The left values both your labor and their soul at zero.
Posted by: flounder at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (Kkt/i)
***
As Scott Adams wrote in his first book, the creation of a Star Trek holodeck would be the downfall of humanity.
"If I'm in my personal holodeck, getting a naked massage from twin Cindy Crawfords, it's going to be mighty hard to convince me to go to the office and sit in a cubicle."
I can't see a replicator being much different in its effect on people.
After all, our "meager" (read: trillions of dollars) attempts at free food, clothing, medical care, and housing have led to the creation of a really fine chunk of humanity so far.
Right?
Posted by: B at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (twiRb)
On the bright side, the anxiety and feeling of worthlessness did get my caboose back to church.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (vgIRn)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 06, 2014 10:56 AM (GjPnA)
** Pushes little pink polka dot autograph hound through the USB port, **
** may I have your autograph, Your Majesty? **
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (RJMhd)
>We say: "We want you to be able to have jobs and >opportunity. "They hear: "We gonna make you work!"
I guess we cling to the gunwales as the ship sinks. Endgame.
Posted by: 13times at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (fGPLK)
Posted by: Elaine Bennes at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (A/uXH)
"Higher needs such as self-esteem and morality can only be realized when lower level needs such as food and shelter have be achieved. Liberals always misread this as saying if we give people stuff they will rocket up to the higher level cognitive needs."
As you noted, 'achieved' does not equal 'given'.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Manager's Special on Republican-brand Perfidy! at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (UAMVq)
It's time for a real executive as our chief executive
...Walker was in Dallas this week for a major fundraiser courtesy of real estate billionaire Harlan Crow, who also introduced Christie around last year. Walker raised $8.6 million in 2013. And you can bet his new best Texas friends will get sincere thank-you's and personal calls in coming days.
Put together continued successful fundraising, based on his ongoing conservative record in Wisconsin. Add a convincing election win Nov. 4. And that's the same scenario as propelled George W. Bush from Austin to Washington.
In Austin, Perry's quietly built an expert fundraising staff as his Lone Star gubernatorial days dwindle. Jindal was in California recently meeting with prominent party donors at a desert retreat.
http://tinyurl.com/p7pv4c4
ibdPosted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (IXrOn)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 10:57 AM (7ObY1)
83 A global economy--really complicates things.
That was never a good idea. Not all cultures value the same things.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at February 06, 2014 02:48 PM (0HooB)
I gotta call bullshit on that. Trade among nations has always been a good thing, the freer the gooder.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (A0sHn)
Posted by: Carl Brutananadilewski at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: Barack Obama at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at February 06, 2014 02:56 PM (GjPnA)
Hot Dayum, there is a first time for everything. I got a snow shovel right cheer and about 6 inches of AGW that I need scraped off the drive. You get to it, little lady!
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (z4WKX)
Senior and mid-level leadership were in present watching these, complaining all the while about having to do this - and they are all libs. They do not understand that the very things they advocate and support cause them all the heartache in their work. I was the only one who said, "Well, this is what you get when you make a deal with the Devil." Some got it, others looked at me like I had five heads.
Posted by: bicentennialguy at February 06, 2014 10:58 AM (vg8iE)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 10:59 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (NZcDt)
And in this corner, the skinny wimp wearing the Mom Jeans...it's Metrosexual Man!
The Railsplitter vs. The Analsplitter
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (8ZskC)
Bonus: Getting to tax their estate earlier. Revenue!!
Posted by: Lizzy at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (POpqt)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (UAMVq)
Yeah, didn't Obama get advances to write books, and he couldn't even handle that? At least one, possibly both, were ghost-written and were past the completed past the deadline, from what I understand. And they were books about himself.
Posted by: Mullaney at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (Lfblp)
The result will go one of two ways.
1) the loafers will eventually attack and destroy the few remaining producers because their self-esteem is suffering, and because they've lost the ability to connect action and consequence, or 2) the few remaining producers will tire of supporting the FSA, and because they're the only ones still thinking and acting, will dispatch them by subtle or overt means. Khaaaaaaaaaan.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:00 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: DeDee Truitt at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: sound awake at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (pk/NG)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (N8COe)
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Senate Majority Leader Harry-The-Pickpocket at February 06, 2014 11:01 AM (o+SC1)
No overt Christians either. Worf's human foster parents were Jewish but it was treated more as culture than religion.
Rodenberry assumed that by the 23rd century and beyond, we would have simply 'outgrown' a lot of stuff. Those his battle over no smoking on the Enterprise at a time when tobacco companies were major sponsors of TV shows.
But a lot of other stuff was subtly missing from any mention on the Enterprise as well. About the only time religion came up was among troublesome aliens. I'm not religious myself but there is still something a little creepy in it.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 11:02 AM (bPxS6)
As Paul said in II Thessalonians 3:10: "..if any would not work, neither should he eat.."
(That's the Saint, not the Anka.)
Posted by: Steve in Greensboro at February 06, 2014 11:02 AM (Dq8Uc)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 11:02 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 11:02 AM (A/uXH)
they swing a wrecking ball to the economy, using regulation and aca, etc etc. Causing millions to lose their income .
people lose their jobs and ability to be upwardly mobile !
that support their families , then toss them onto a insignificant unemployment check , ( better than nothing)
and than tell you all this losing homes, credit ratings, cars, dignity is supposed to be Real freedom.
you know from owning homes, cars, providing food and shelter for your family .
vacay.
yeah insane.
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 11:03 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 11:03 AM (g1DWB)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 11:03 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at February 06, 2014 11:03 AM (g9neE)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 03:01 PM (GDtEt)
No. The significant other does the shoveling. He wears cowboy boots.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (z4WKX)
No overt Christians either. Worf's human foster parents were Jewish but it was treated more as culture than religion.
Rodenberry assumed that by the 23rd century and beyond, we would have simply 'outgrown' a lot of stuff. Those his battle over no smoking on the Enterprise at a time when tobacco companies were major sponsors of TV shows.
But a lot of other stuff was subtly missing from any mention on the Enterprise as well. About the only time religion came up was among troublesome aliens. I'm not religious myself but there is still something a little creepy in it.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 03:02 PM (bPxS6)
Religion always portrayed in a negative like on the next generation.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:04 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Kreplach at February 06, 2014 11:05 AM (UyYYt)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 03:01 PM
Van Gogh had a vocation.
Great post, Ace!
Now, off to work!
Posted by: mrp at February 06, 2014 11:05 AM (JBggj)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 11:06 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: The Dude at February 06, 2014 11:06 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: David Brooks at February 06, 2014 11:06 AM (Q6pxP)
I didn't know she was a vampire, too.
Posted by: HR at February 06, 2014 11:06 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 11:06 AM (GDtEt)
I'm a life-long SF reader but I've little hope of any practical means of reaching other habitable planets appearing. So far, the physics just don't allow for it and nobody has yet found the magic loophole. It would be great if there was a place we could go while the leftists stew in their own juices but at this point we don't even have row boats, never mind ships capable of crossing oceans.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 11:07 AM (bPxS6)
Posted by: The Proletariat at February 06, 2014 11:07 AM (29vnO)
166 Van Gogh didn't have a job.
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 03:01 PM
And he lived off his brother.
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 11:07 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:07 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:07 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Damiano at February 06, 2014 11:08 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Andy at February 06, 2014 11:08 AM (icMMP)
>>>Higher needs such as self-esteem and morality can only be realized when lower level needs such as food and shelter have be achieved. Liberals always misread this as saying if we give people stuff they will rocket up to the higher level cognitive needs.
That Maslow's Pyramid scam thinger was also a Lefty patting himself on the back. That self-realisation malarkey was him talking with other big-Libs asking them about how cool they were and how did they get there? Those big lies begat that one. But it sounds so logical, doesn't it? No need for any basis in morality to start with -- Heavens no! Just have some food and money, that'll come in time.
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:08 AM (3ZtZW)
Amazing
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 03:04 PM (GDtEt)
He's blowing through it pretty fast. Sometime GF, Selena Gomez admitted today that she had been through rehab.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:08 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 11:08 AM (g1DWB)
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 11:09 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Navycopjoe at February 06, 2014 11:09 AM (GDtEt)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 03:06 PM (UAMVq)
I think that is why I generally like Deep Space 9 more than the others because they have a somewhat more realistic philosophy on life compared to the other whackadoo series. They start bringing money back into the equation for one, not this weird utopian thing TNG had.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:09 AM (buZ/8)
Work is the dignity of man (and woman, thank you). Without it, we get the ghetto culture that says you may kill, rape and maim to gain sustenance. Pretty obvious, from history, where that leads.
Posted by: tcn at February 06, 2014 11:09 AM (3kDQa)
Posted by: The Dude at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (OZmbA)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy-Eared Vulcan at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (sPO/s)
Posted by: Andrew Ryan at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (UAMVq)
Van Gogh had a job. He painted upwards of 17 hours per day, producing amazing work. He put candles in a wide-brimmed hat so he could see the canvases more clearly in lamplight. From his letters, he thought what he was painting was beautiful and wonderful and fine, and would surely sell.
He was right about the quality of his work and he was right about the value of it. The problem was the lag between A and B.
Posted by: troyriser at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (V9ol4)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 11:10 AM (N8COe)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:11 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 03:10 PM (Ec6wH)
Where YOU at? Need moar employees?
Posted by: tcn at February 06, 2014 11:11 AM (3kDQa)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:11 AM (7ObY1)
Motion: Guaranteed and health insurance subsidized by middle class workers will allow low-income Americans to indulge in more leisure activities and have an even more awful attitude towards their work because they won't fear being fired quite so much.
In favor: The Democrats
Opposed: The GOP
But for some reason we didn't have this debate.
Posted by: Alec Leamas at February 06, 2014 11:11 AM (nnkXw)
A tool for cutting to the chase and making things happen?
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 11:12 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: IrishEd at February 06, 2014 11:12 AM (D0NZx)
"Philosophical disagreement"?
I think it's more a case of the Dems coming up with flowery rhetoric to camouflage the fact that they have been killing jobs.
Their policies have been killing jobs for decades now.
Practically every thing that the Dems are for is an impediment to job creation.
So...of course they need to claim that they have a noble 'philosophy' behind their actions...rather than pandering to various groups for votes, and rank stupidity.
And, great post, Ace.
Posted by: wheatie at February 06, 2014 11:13 AM (eCZwh)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 11:13 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:13 AM (0HooB)
To repeat something I wrote at the bottom of the Monty thread:
Being at a certain place, at a certain time ready to do your job is a skill. It is a very basic skill, but it is a skill every person has to learn. Some learn it at a very early age by watching a parent, some as a teenager working at a burger place and some never learn. But it is usually those trapped in the lower rungs of the economy who need this skill the most, and will never progress from their current situation until they gain it. By discouraging work, we are discouraging people from gaining one of the most basic skills they will need for economic security and a stable life.
And I saw Monty Thread open for The Specials back in '79.
Posted by: Joe at February 06, 2014 11:13 AM (7pOq5)
I'm a life-long SF reader but I've little hope of any practical means of reaching other habitable planets appearing. So far, the physics just don't allow for it and nobody has yet found the magic loophole. It would be great if there was a place we could go while the leftists stew in their own juices but at this point we don't even have row boats, never mind ships capable of crossing oceans.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 03:07 PM (bPxS6)
Well, we could at least attempt to colonize the moon, mars, and titan. Its not as if we don't have the technical expertise now. We freaking landed on the moon ~40 years ago with little more tech than one of our calculators have today.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:13 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:14 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Low Information Dumbass at February 06, 2014 11:14 AM (Lljg2)
Well no wonder. With a paycheck like that they'll lose their "benefits."
Posted by: HR at February 06, 2014 11:14 AM (ZKzrr)
I am really troubled that this issue even needs to be addressed. For the left to argue that getting free shit for not working is a good thing is just surreal.
What a person needs is no measure of what they deserve. The two have no link. How much a person has is, however, directly linked to what a person can produce, and therefore I hold that those two things are the same (assuming they're not producing by gaming the system i.e. cronyism or the like); what a person produces is what the person has, so what the person has is what the person deserves. A person can sit around and need all day. This helps no one, least of all that person. Work all day, and that person would end up with something.
Posted by: shillelagh at February 06, 2014 11:14 AM (hRzu2)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 03:09 PM (6bMeY)
I've read a few of your comments (like this one), and can only conclude that you don't get out much, have probably never been laid, and are deeply self-conscious about that high school acne problem that has somehow followed you into middle age. Look on the bright side: a clear complexion isn't everything. You always have your charm to fall back on.
Posted by: troyriser at February 06, 2014 11:14 AM (V9ol4)
You could, you know, put in a half-day on Sunday and still make it to church.
There are a lot of people working 60 or more hours each week, who'd love to be able to get by on 35 or 40. Sadly, it's dangerous and expensive to hire more people, and there's not really any plan to make that any better.
This initiative certainly could have been presented better. There was not the least suggestion that work of less than the traditional number of hours might yield an acceptable standard of living without subsidies. There were some conservatives, a few years ago (B.O.) who felt that the current system of insurance marketing was unduly binding, and that an open market might be a better approach. And yet no appeal is made to that argument.
The Obamites had, in this case, a chance to claim that they were giving us something we wanted. Instead, because they have gotten ham-handed in their triumphalism, they chose to pitch it to their leftmost element, a cadre whose support they do not need to curry.
They certainly have gotten a squawk out of us though, and maybe that's their only goal when they make these pronouncements. Here's hoping this will be the one they choke on, although I would not bet on it. The press will fix it for them.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (xq1UY)
Posted by: Mama AJ at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (SUKHu)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humantiarian at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (HVff2)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (aQep1)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (VtjlW)
DR diesel-powered log splitter?
Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 06, 2014 11:15 AM (KQp38)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:16 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Zombie Ernest Hemingway at February 06, 2014 11:16 AM (DrC22)
Posted by: traye at February 06, 2014 11:16 AM (PVy3a)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Honest Abe at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (7ObY1)
Bullshit.
Posted by: Every union ever at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (hO9ad)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 03:11 PM (ZshNr)
If memory serves, Lincoln came up with an inflatable riverboat elevation system to clear the hull from the shallows.
Posted by: troyriser at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (V9ol4)
The left doesn't like the virtue of industry and labor precisely because they are thieves. And they use their votes to to keep the thiefocracy alive.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (n0DEs)
Yes, he did get a nice memorial and will be forever remembered as one of our greatest Presidents ever.
Our country will be forever grateful that we had a President willing to put the amoral southern slavers in their place.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 11:17 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at February 06, 2014 11:18 AM (545zi)
We have these places in America where all creature comforts are taken care of, food and health care is provided, and there is plenty of leisure time to spend not laboring or working.
Prisons and zoos.
And Gubment, don't forget gubment.
Posted by: drill_thrawl at February 06, 2014 11:18 AM (rdiUQ)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:18 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:18 AM (0HooB)
************
His tyrranical preference for the longbow was inexcuseable.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (vgIRn)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (6bMeY)
Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (naUcP)
Virtue: Wanting everyone including oneself to be happy, joyous, and free.
Morality: Taking total responsibility for your own actions and decisions.
Work: The catalyst that makes both of the above possible.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (ytQi3)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:15 PM (VtjlW)
Yes, I still remember my sister telling me about her three year old daughter telling Mom, "I can lay my clothes out for tomorrow all by myself. I will dress myself too."
Sure there were a couple of incidents of mismatched colors, but, my niece was now a big girl and could take care of dressing herself.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at February 06, 2014 11:19 AM (jVaLp)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:20 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Waterhouse at February 06, 2014 11:21 AM (hBNxo)
(the point, the ideology, the philosophy, that is)
How does the bell curve break down, into thirds? into quarters or tenths? as in ten percent out on the fringe 'get it' and fifty shades of rainbow bridge the gap between the two extremes?
So then you say we have to take over education, news media, or Hollywood, or get books published. Yet look at National Review Online, same stuff every day. Through in some 'diversity' to expand the audience, and you dilute your fan base. You get targeted by organized trolling, and you are over run. Your fan base gets tired of the fight.
Look at 'conservative' or libertarian think tanks, not all 'conservatives' are 'true conservatives' (...and that is when the fight started.), same story, same stuff everyday.
How do you deprogram a cultist? I don't know.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 11:21 AM (zdCE9)
taken care of, food and health care is provided, and there is plenty of
leisure time to spend not laboring or working.
Prisons and zoos."
Both places will provide the inhabitants with a premarked voting ballot. You forgot that benefit.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:21 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 11:21 AM (g1DWB)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:21 AM (7ObY1)
In 4 years, Abe had:
1. defeated the Confederacy
2. abolished slavery in the rebellious states
3. given a world renowned and readily quoted speech
4. and abused the Constitution (printed paper money, instituted an income tax, instituted the draft, exiled supposed traitors, and used federal troops to put down draft riots).
His current successor: abused the Constitution, couldn't get a web site to work correctly. And that's pretty much it. Oh, well, he does tend to get outfoxed in the foreign policy sphere on a routine basis...
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at February 06, 2014 03:15 PM (1hM1d)
The fact that the current successor is that incompetent says a lot of his opposition when they can't outmaneuver him.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (VtjlW)
A freaking four year old understands the value and
dignity and pride to be taken in being able to take care of yourself
more than nearly all of the Left.
=======================
They can also say, with feeling, "everything is poopy". My theory is we divide ourselves, Right and Left, at the age of Four.
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:22 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: IRS Supervisor at February 06, 2014 11:23 AM (Q6pxP)
FIFY
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 11:23 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 06, 2014 11:23 AM (oFCZn)
Posted by: Even Morrissey Understands at February 06, 2014 11:23 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: Phillip Seymour Hoffman at February 06, 2014 11:23 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:24 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 03:18 PM (7ObY1)
-------------------------------------------------
When I was broke and not working, I considered anyone with a $5 bill in their pocket rich. Perception is a tricky thing. Unfortunately, the perception of almost half this country is that if I have a job, I'm rich.
What's really bad is that the government agrees with the non-workers and tax me thusly.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 11:24 AM (ytQi3)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:24 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Jesse Jackson at February 06, 2014 11:24 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:22 PM (VtjlW)
Preach it sister. Put me down for my subsidy as well.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:24 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 11:25 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 11:26 AM (A98Xu)
Huns of the North?
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 03:24 PM (RJMhd)
Irish flooding in from the Potato Famine, NYC did not want them, so they conscripted them.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:26 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Even Morrissey Understands at February 06, 2014 11:26 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit [/i][/s][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:26 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (z4WKX)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (VtjlW)
>>>>her seventh kid by the seventh different
guy needs me to pay her rent.
Kid's name is Alvin Bastard, right?
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at February 06, 2014 11:27 AM (DrC22)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 11:28 AM (dfYL9)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:28 AM (MhA4j)
Yes, I'm that old.
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 03:26 PM (A98Xu)
-----------------------------------------------
So am I. You may stay on my lawn.
The leftists have been very successful in removing shame from any form of bad behaviour or non-behaviour.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 11:28 AM (ytQi3)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:27 PM (VtjlW)
Excuse me, My Liege, not sure that the Horde "can" play nicely. But, it is a noble effort nonetheless.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:28 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Honest Abe at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (IXrOn)
You'll get them back later when I determine the Horde can play nicely.
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:27 PM (VtjlW)
This is reason #13 why we can't have nice things.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Insomniac at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (UAMVq)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (Ec6wH)
Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 06, 2014 11:29 AM (naUcP)
It's also temporary. There's little incentive to maintain any sense of loyalty when working as an easily disposable temp.
I worked various temp jobs in college and never felt a twinge of guilt walking out on one if something better came along. Or the start of a new semester.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (z4WKX)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (VtjlW)
The issue arises because of a provision in the long-standing laws governing Medicaid that compel states to recoup certain medical costs after a person dies, either via liens placed on an individual's home or claims on their assets.
Before implementation of the health care law, colloquially known as Obamacare, only pregnant women, children and those with disabilities qualified for Medicaid.
Further, the asset-clawback provision typically was applied only to people with disabilities older than 55, or those in long-term care, like in nursing homes or other assisted living facilities.
Because Illinois opted to expand eligibility of its Medicaid program to all individuals who make less than about $15,800 a year, a cross-section of relatively healthy early retirees and older workers who unexpectedly lost their jobs and who are too young for Medicare is in danger of getting snagged.
The potential issue applies only to those ages 55 to 64 and newly enrolled in Medicaid, the free coverage paid for almost entirely by the federal government. Those who signed up for private coverage on state-based insurance exchanges are not affected.
Although complaints are mounting from consumers and advocacy groups about ambiguity over how or whether elements of the clawback provision will be enforced, neither the state nor the federal government has provided any clarity, leaving consumers to deal with uncertainty.
Posted by: Reddy Kilowatt at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (e8kgV)
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: John F'ing Kerry at February 06, 2014 11:30 AM (7ObY1)
>>>You'll get them back later when I determine the Horde can play nicely.
They'll just find sticks and play make-believe longbows vs crossbows. Its in their DNA
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:31 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Anderson Cooper at February 06, 2014 11:31 AM (aQep1)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:31 AM (yz6yg)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:30 PM (VtjlW)
OOOh, we can sell those for shoes, pretty, pretty shoes.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:31 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:31 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Jimmy Hoffa at February 06, 2014 11:32 AM (e8kgV)
and looks out my window for a willing person to do everything for me,
cause
nope, not seeing one.
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 11:32 AM (nqBYe)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:32 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:32 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 06, 2014 11:32 AM (naUcP)
Considering one of the left's core constituent groups are the LABOR unions, you'd think they wouldn't be able to make arguments like this without exploding in a puff of brutal illogic. But then the left has never been anything but illogical.
And then there's this twit:
ThereÂ’s an irony in the GOP complaining that ACA lets people quit jobs. I mean, whatÂ’s wrong with freedom?
This is what I mean when I say that words like "freedom" and "liberty" have oversaturated our political discourse to the point that they have no meaning any more. When John Stark wrote "Live Free or Die," he did not mean, "Get out of work early on Friday so you can make it up to the mountains for a wicked awesome ski trip with your buddies. Freedom!" Yet that's how such terms have come to be understood. It's not "freedom" in the sense of being able to make your own choices and live your life unharassed by the government; it's freedom to do the stuff you want to do while you're not busy doing something else.
Freedom as "Me Time." How sad.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:33 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Lauren at February 06, 2014 11:33 AM (hFL/3)
Posted by: willow at February 06, 2014 03:32 PM (nqBYe)
I always have better luck with a mirror.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:33 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Nikita Krushchev at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: Damiano at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (j0wOO)
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Momma Said There'd Be Days Like This at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (omBWL)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (yz6yg)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:34 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:35 AM (RJMhd)
>>>>Germans were NEVER the Huns.
Germania - the ill-defined region that haunted the Romans - is one of maybe 2 or 3 Cauldrons of Nations. Areas where whole tribes of peoples suddenly appear to history, or maybe are born, live, die in obscurity, never heard from. The other big one was the Steppes. Kinda makes you wonder WTF was going on there back in the mists of time.
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:35 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at February 06, 2014 11:35 AM (XvrTA)
Damsels in Distress : http://vimeo.com/85147880
Posted by: garrett
That was awesome.
Posted by: Dr Spank at February 06, 2014 11:35 AM (38LLM)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 06, 2014 11:35 AM (p9JxP)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:36 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 06, 2014 11:36 AM (oFCZn)
The leftists have been very successful in removing shame from any form of bad behaviour or non-behaviour.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 03:28 PM (ytQi3)
Yes, they have. I noticed at a farmers market in a nice neighborhood in Brooklyn, they set up a little stand for taking EBT cards. My wife and I meandered by and I lingered a bit, interested to see who was in line. All 20-something hipsters.
My wide was treated to a nice rant about how the shame is now gone from being on the public dole. Not lost from the conversation was the fact that the neighborhood these people live in is not a cheap neighborhood. We were priced out 3 years ago and moved.
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 11:36 AM (/Mxso)
Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at February 06, 2014 11:36 AM (tv7DV)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:36 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Momma Said There'd Be Days Like This at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (omBWL)
You forgot the most important part - paid for by someone else.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (6TB1Z)
@341 Like a dolt, after hearing the term I googled images. Huge mistake. It exacerbated my hatred of people in general and libs in particular and my certainty that the US doesn't deserve it's own founders.
-----------------
Well, look at the bright side. That's the *last* time that you'll ever make that particular mistake...
Incidentally, one of the many useful things that Zombie has done is to document and photograph stuff like the FSF up in the Bay Area so that the rest of us don't have to subject ourselves to it in order to know about it.
Posted by: junior at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (UWFpX)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter at February 06, 2014 03:34 PM (yz6yg)
Yes.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:37 AM (RJMhd)
Several members of the Horde have recently opined that it is not that the institutional GOP can't outmaneuver Obama, but that they have no real wish to do so.
The pithiest summation was that the Beltway Republicans "don't want to right the ship so much as they just want to guarantee their places are secure in the first-class cabins".
I am increasingly inclined to endorse that view myself.
For instance: the extreme discomfort displayed by the typical Beltway GOP member when asked about hard, specific, substantive spending cuts that they would endorse.
Oh fuck! Spending CUTS? Um, well, gee, let me have my staff get back to you that. Sometime.
When the only thing they can agree on to cut is future cost of living adjustments for military retirees, you know things are in a pretty damned bad way.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 06, 2014 11:38 AM (gqT4g)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 11:38 AM (2N3Nt)
You forgot the most important part - paid for by someone else.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 03:37 PM (6TB1Z)
But of course!
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 03:36 PM (/Mxso)
I hope you took the opportunity to imagine every one of those hipster douchebags trying to run down a fire escape in heels. ^_^
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:38 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:38 AM (yz6yg)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:39 AM (RJMhd)
Damsels in Distress : http://vimeo.com/85147880
Posted by: garrett
Oooooh! That is some mighty fine fish pron.
Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at February 06, 2014 11:40 AM (A0sHn)
http://www.salon.com/2010/03/16/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched/
Posted by: HR at February 06, 2014 11:40 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 06, 2014 03:38 PM (4df7R)
Preferably while trying to outrun a falling piano!
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 11:40 AM (/Mxso)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:40 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:41 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: jwest at February 06, 2014 11:41 AM (u2a4R)
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 11:41 AM (kXoT0)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:41 AM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:42 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:42 AM (VtjlW)
I used to believe that. Some of the SF writers I grew up reading are now friends who call me for computer help. But in reality the Moon landings were a stunt. We are still very far from being able to sustain life off planet without prohibitive expense. At this moment we have no idea how to get a human to Mars alive, not to mention still capable of reproduction. We have some ideas but are very far from being able to test them.
We need to do what we should have done back when. Get really good at moving stuff from ground to orbit. We still suck at that basic function. Right now, if we got a call from ISS saying if we don't have X within 30 days, we're all dead, well, they'd be dead or have to abandon the station if the means are there to get down again intact.
The way things are progressing, I believe we're far more likely to have robotic asteroid mining before we have any permanent human presence off planet. To build anything that can allow for long term habitation is going to require a LOT of materials. If they have to be lifted from the gravity it is simply never going to happen. The money will never be there for such a long term project with so many uncertainties involved.
I'd like to be wrong but I'm not seeing any reason to think I am.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 11:43 AM (bPxS6)
>>>>What about the Balkans?
Balkans were surprisingly fairly well known. Byzantium knew most about them.
>>>In Africa I think it is the Zaire --and Rwanda region.
Possibly. Don't know enough about the area.
Look at how the Romans saw the German tribes. Never heard their names before, no stories about them, no words borrowed, no trade. Suddenly all of them show up outside of your walls. They've heard of you, want what you have. And this happens repeatedly, over hundreds of years: Where the Hell do all of these people come from? Why do they all look so different from one another? etc. China had the same problem from the Steppes.
Was it like that for the Africans?
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:43 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at February 06, 2014 11:43 AM (jVaLp)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 11:44 AM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at February 06, 2014 11:44 AM (9Bdcz)
Posted by: NYC Parent at February 06, 2014 11:44 AM (u7qiU)
circa 1996: look at all these people off welfare, great job Clinton!
circa 2014: look at all these people on welfare, great job Obama!
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 06, 2014 11:44 AM (WdbF7)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:44 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Vortex Lovera at February 06, 2014 11:45 AM (wtvvX)
Yep, did that once, no twice, but I was desperate.
Eventually I paid a training company to certify me, and get my application for employment in at places that would actually hire. Ended up living in an 18wheeler for eleven years. (I don't recommend that career path to anyone.)
Now I find myself in the position of an old French Canadian voyager, retired, dependent, waiting for time to expire.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 11:45 AM (zdCE9)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:45 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 11:45 AM (z4WKX)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 11:46 AM (g1DWB)
*settles at your feet, chin on hands*
Tell me more.
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:42 PM (VtjlW)
It's a lovely image, isn't it? A bunch of skinny dweebs in ironic t-shirts with patchy facial hair wearing red patent leather pumps and falling head first down the fire escape as they get their heels stuck in the grating...
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:46 AM (4df7R)
Freedom is not options. Freedom is the absense of coersion. A man stranded alone on a desert island is freer than the wealthiest plutocrat in a dictatorship.
Especially if he gets to pick the right disques to bring along...
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at February 06, 2014 11:46 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:47 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:47 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:47 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:47 AM (RJMhd)
I always wondered how the Star Trek universe worked.<<<
.
I always wondered how much the barbers and bartenders on the Enterprise were paid in relation to the captain.
Posted by: Javems at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (c8xU9)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (7ObY1)
BRISBANE, Australia (AP) — An Australian cricket fan who allegedly smuggled a pig into a Brisbane sports ground during a test against England has agreed to undergo mediation with the Royal Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals.
David Gunn, 33, was charged with
animal cruelty after the pig was sneaked into the Gabba ground with its
snout taped shut and disguised as a baby.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (naUcP)
Posted by: Serena at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (vAcSw)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 06, 2014 11:48 AM (oFCZn)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Award Winning Commenter[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 11:49 AM (yz6yg)
@396 Used to see those photo essays at Jharles Chonson's place, before the Cheeto-dusted, ponytailed, failed musician and corpulent creep jumped the shark.
---------------------
They started showing up at PJ Media instead. I don't think Zombie's posted over there in quite a while, though.
Posted by: junior at February 06, 2014 11:49 AM (UWFpX)
I used to believe that. Some of the SF writers I grew up reading are now friends who call me for computer help. But in reality the Moon landings were a stunt. We are still very far from being able to sustain life off planet without prohibitive expense. At this moment we have no idea how to get a human to Mars alive, not to mention still capable of reproduction. We have some ideas but are very far from being able to test them.
We need to do what we should have done back when. Get really good at moving stuff from ground to orbit. We still suck at that basic function. Right now, if we got a call from ISS saying if we don't have X within 30 days, we're all dead, well, they'd be dead or have to abandon the station if the means are there to get down again intact.
The way things are progressing, I believe we're far more likely to have robotic asteroid mining before we have any permanent human presence off planet. To build anything that can allow for long term habitation is going to require a LOT of materials. If they have to be lifted from the gravity it is simply never going to happen. The money will never be there for such a long term project with so many uncertainties involved.
I'd like to be wrong but I'm not seeing any reason to think I am.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 03:43 PM (bPxS6)
Most of the space exploration that was done last century was government run through NASA and other space agencies around the globe. And we know how efficient they can be (not saying that it won't be cheap). I hope with the commercial involvement accelerating we may see more human beings going to space. I just wish our military would have allowed more commercial involvement in the previous space missions.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:49 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 03:47 PM (7ObY1)
And let's face it, it's not easy to jump a shark when you're carrying the fatty equivalent of sixty tubs of Crisco around your midsection. That requires some rocket-powered crazy. Credit where it's due.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:49 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 11:50 AM (ZshNr)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:50 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 11:50 AM (aQep1)
Posted by: J.W. Boothe at February 06, 2014 11:51 AM (38LLM)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:51 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 11:51 AM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Henry Hill at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (lKyWE)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: rickb223 at February 06, 2014 03:35 PM (p9JxP)
-----------------------------------------
To be honest, the gubmint cheese back then wasn't that bad. Had a friend of mine give me a tin of it. They used to have real butter back then too. All of the handout food was always on shelves seperate from the rest of the store. Yeah, the stigma has been erased. Stigma caused positive incentive.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (ytQi3)
Posted by: lael at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (yrklk)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (dpjTJ)
They weren't paid. Money was no longer in use. People worked because they wanted to.
Left unaddressed was how they convinced the janitor or the laborers who built the Enterprise to show up for work.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 11:52 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:53 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 03:50 PM (aQep1)
Anything bigger than a 28 gage and it's not sporting.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 06, 2014 11:53 AM (QFxY5)
Abraham Lincoln and Barack Obama walk into a bar and order a couple of beers.
The bartender says, " you guys look like you have been having a tough go at it"
Lincoln says, " Yes , keeping the Union together takes its toll on a man. "
The bartender looks at Obama and says, " What about you? "
Obama replies, " I think tearing apart the Union is harder plus the mattress in his room is hard on my back"
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 11:53 AM (m2CN7)
Posted by: JackStraw at February 06, 2014 11:54 AM (g1DWB)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 06, 2014 11:54 AM (XyM/Y)
They weren't paid. Money was no longer in use. People worked because they wanted to.
Left unaddressed was how they convinced the janitor or the laborers who built the Enterprise to show up for work.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 03:52 PM (SY2Kh)
It was weird. I always wondered the same thing. Then I remembered that it was Science-FICTION with heavy emphasis on the fiction part. That crap wouldn't happen in real life.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:54 AM (buZ/8)
Give me that back first. Then we'll talk.
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 02:46 PM (VtjlW)
==========================================
I worked 45-60 hours a week as an undergraduate physics major. Occasionally we'd have to bring in help from somewhere else, especially when we had a really large function, such as a wedding for 500+ people. One of the temp waiters asked how I managed to work full time and go to college full time. I said, "Well, I pretty much don't have a social life" and he responsed "Oh, I couldn't do that." I guess it depends on what's important to you.
Oh, and play nicely? If you weren't, well, YOU, I'd say that you're new around here.
Posted by: physics geek at February 06, 2014 11:54 AM (MT22W)
For a somewhat contrary view, I suggest Josef Pieper's essay "Leisure: The Basis of Culture". Pieper was writing in the 1950s, in reaction against the Communist governments of Eastern Europe, whose political philosophy was built around the notion that labor subsumed all other aspects of human existence: the Stakhanovite approach to life. Pieper, instead, maintained that there are areas of freedom that must be maintained apart from the realm of labor; areas of pure contemplation, of pure leisure. So, rather than denegrating labor, he was in fact opposing the notion that a human being is entirely subservient to the State.
I don't think he foresaw welfare socialism, in which people are subordinated to the State in mindless, regimented idleness rather than mindless, regimented labor. But the effect is the same: the State dictating how we spend the very hours of our lives.
Posted by: Brown Line at February 06, 2014 11:55 AM (VrNoa)
Used to see those photo essays at Jharles Chonson's place, before the Cheeto-dusted, ponytailed, failed musician and corpulent creep jumped the shark.
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 03:47 PM (7ObY1)
----------------------------------------------
That's where I was introduced to it, when Zombie was still commenting over at chuckie's dive.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 11:55 AM (ytQi3)
It was weird. I always wondered the same thing. Then I remembered that it was Science-FICTION with heavy emphasis on the fiction part. That crap wouldn't happen in real life.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 03:54 PM (buZ/
This is why I was always rather partial to the Ferengi. Gold plated latinum, people. It's the currency of the future.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 11:55 AM (4df7R)
I always wondered how much the barbers and bartenders on the Enterprise were paid in relation to the captain.
----
Same amout of pay, different amount of pussy
Posted by: James Kirk at February 06, 2014 11:55 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: Vortex Lovera at February 06, 2014 11:55 AM (wtvvX)
you were only seeing the best, and the most industrious.
You didn't see the other 99%.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 11:56 AM (zdCE9)
Posted by: wth at February 06, 2014 11:56 AM (wAQA5)
Exactly. It would not and could not work in real life.
This doesn't change the fact that the Communist left will never stop trying to pretend it could work if only the Right People (themselves) were in charge.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 11:56 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at February 06, 2014 11:56 AM (WdbF7)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 11:56 AM (7ObY1)
Like the guys who unclogged toilets. I wonder what color their shirts were?
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 11:57 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 06, 2014 03:55 PM (4df7R)
Love the Ferengi!
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:57 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 11:57 AM (8wH5z)
Keep in mind that those were tribes, though. They were used to moving, and their sense of nationhood was not geographic as ours is. The Romans went to a lot of literary trouble to identify their founding as more of the same.
The real mystery is the Greek dark age, and where the hell those blondes came from. But it was Global Warming, no doubt about it, that sent them there.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 06, 2014 11:57 AM (xq1UY)
@434 Wanna bet there was still a Longshoremen's union at every spaceport?
---------------------
There was on Babylon 5. They even went on strike during an episode in the first season.
Posted by: junior at February 06, 2014 11:57 AM (UWFpX)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (VtjlW)
Plus now I have these longbows and crossbows. Mwahaha. Mwahahahahahahaha.
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:30 PM (VtjlW)
OOOh, we can sell those for shoes, pretty, pretty shoes.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes, think mink. at February 06, 2014 03:31 PM (kXoT0)
Better run those sales through an FFL, proles.
Posted by: BATFEIEIO at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (TIIx5)
you were only seeing the best, and the most industrious.
You didn't see the other 99%.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 03:56 PM (zdCE9)
Oh great. We were idolizing the 1% again. When will be be free of them!
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (6bMeY)
>>>>I think Zaire has some twenty different languages, various religions and ethnic tribes--
Sounds like it might be another area for it - and it does make sense Africa would host another, what with its genetic diversity, multiplicity of languages, etc
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 06, 2014 11:58 AM (Fka6O)
Not for nothing do I call you people the RethugliKKKans.
Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, Vermont at February 06, 2014 11:59 AM (UWbv/)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 03:56 PM (7ObY1)
The racism inherent in that comment is breathtaking.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 06, 2014 11:59 AM (QFxY5)
Quasi-military organization, wouldn't they just assign the n00bs to clean the latrines?
Weasley Crusher would have benefited from cleaning a few toilets. Particularly in the quarters for weird alien ambassadors.
Posted by: HR at February 06, 2014 11:59 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:00 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: TimothyJ at February 06, 2014 12:00 PM (ep2io)
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 12:00 PM (/Mxso)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 12:00 PM (4df7R)
Zaire isn't called Zaire anymore.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 12:01 PM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:01 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 12:01 PM (ZshNr)
One of my fond memories was being at White Sands to see the DC-X do the Orbital Reentry Maneuver or as Larry Niven called it, the Death Swoop.
The bad part of that memory is the little ceremony they had where the Air Force, who'd developed the DC-X for peanuts up to that point, handed it over to NASA. Within a year NASA had destroyed it and never built another, instead deciding to start a new program that went around in circles for a decade arguing over fuel tank designs, while doing no work on advancing the rest of the technology.
The private ventures have some hope but off planet colonization cannot be on their agenda for a very long time. They need to develop access to orbit into a functioning business on a par with commercial airlines, which is a very slow process. Unless somebody comes up with some truly breakthrough method of lifting mass to orbit, we're going to need to corral an asteroid before we have enough mass to work with to make something humans can live in long term.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 12:01 PM (bPxS6)
oh they had several episodes demonstrating the propagandizing done by the news media. They were difficult to watch.
Star Trek was Shakespeare, and other long out of copy right Literature.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (zdCE9)
This doesn't change the fact that the Communist left will never stop trying to pretend it could work if only the Right People (themselves) were in charge.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 03:56 PM (SY2Kh)
Communism has never been implemented correctly because it goes against human nature. But you will never convince meddling humans to stop trying. Because we are all clearly insane to keep trying over and over and over and over again.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (buZ/8)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 04:00 PM (7ObY1)
Yup...it's amazing.
Did you notice that South Africa during apartheid had huge immigration from pretty much everywhere else in Africa?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 06, 2014 12:02 PM (QFxY5)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 06, 2014 03:55 PM (4df7R)
-------
You look like a gal who really appreciates Self-Sealing Stimbolts.
Posted by: Darth Randall at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (xWgW3)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (6bMeY)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: AmishDude at February 06, 2014 12:03 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (dpjTJ)
wash , rinse, repeat
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virture of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (7ObY1)
Fucking hashes. But I'll be damned if I'm putting any of my usual AoS names on this.
Posted by: nobody at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (UWbv/)
Posted by: Brother Cavil at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (naUcP)
For those who joined Starfleet? Sure, I suppose.
However, the moneyless society wasn't limited to Starfleet.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 12:04 PM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:05 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 04:03 PM (ZshNr)
Don't recall, but a "no currency, work because we want to" setting must have some pretty horrific prostitutes.
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 12:05 PM (/Mxso)
you were only seeing the best, and the most industrious.
You didn't see the other 99%.
Raw material for the food replicators.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at February 06, 2014 12:05 PM (4WhSY)
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 06, 2014 12:05 PM (Fka6O)
Me. Every so often I find fishing lures in Chekov's.
Posted by: ScrubBot 2000 at February 06, 2014 12:05 PM (hBNxo)
Here in Commiefornia, benefits are all now distributed via card. A glossy piece of work marked as "Golden State Advantage" and made to look like an expensive affiliate-marketing credit/debit card, with a background photo of a beautiful shoreline.
It took me a little while to figure out what the things looked like, but now that I have, I see them absolutely everywhere.
My favorite story about that being the time that I went to the local big box store, passed on buying a particular package of steak in the meat section because it didn't fit the budget, then going to the checkout line and finding a long string of obviously foreign, non-English-speaking families in front of me there.
Every single one of them flashing their "Golden State Advantage" card for the stacks of food they were walking out with. And the last ones in line in front of me plopping onto the belt the very same package of steak I had regretfully not bought with my own money. They too had their magic public benefits card to handle the purchase.
I'm starting to feel thoroughly finished with America. Or this thing that America has turned into. Ready to find a new arrangement.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 06, 2014 12:06 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: jwest at February 06, 2014 12:06 PM (u2a4R)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:06 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: garrett at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (aQep1)
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 04:00 PM (/Mxso)
It is kind of scary to think that the "peaceful" enterprise could go toe to toe with warfaring vessels of other empires. It makes one wonder what a militaristic expansionist Federation could field.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (buZ/8)
Posted by: Boss Moss at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (6bMeY)
isn't that part of the reason or hypothesis about why Germany became very militaristic?
I'm thinking the Gauls were much more militaristic than the Germanic tribes.
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 04:05 PM (/Mxso)
Or....smokin' hot vixens who do it for the sheer pleasure of the work!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (QFxY5)
It is possible that upon seeing that I thought to myself, self, if you have to make that noise, you are going to make MWR make that noise.
*bounds off all innocent*
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 04:02 PM (VtjlW)
And you succeeded, oh benevolentish one!
The little FEET. The eyes!
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 12:07 PM (4df7R)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:08 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at February 06, 2014 12:08 PM (dfYL9)
Many CBC members say Obama hasnÂ’t fought hard enough to fill the federal bench with the DemocratsÂ’ preferred picks, leaving some states with nominees who lack the ethnic diversity of the population they would oversee.
In a closed-door meeting with a handful of CBC leaders, Jarrett brushed back the criticism, saying Obama had a “commitment to diversity” and an “outstanding” record in placing minority judges, she said afterward.
Asked if the White House would consider replacing any of its choices, Jarrett’s answer was a terse, “No.”
The message was not well received. CBC members have criticized the nominees who they say champion policies that discriminate against minorities.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam at February 06, 2014 12:08 PM (e8kgV)
Yes. Your main point stands though, as it remains a place of nearly constant war and strife.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 06, 2014 12:08 PM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Aviator at February 06, 2014 12:08 PM (DI+ja)
Posted by: AmishDude at February 06, 2014 12:09 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Duchess of Something at February 06, 2014 12:09 PM (baL2B)
Gold-PRESSED latinum, right. Right. See, it's been too long since I've seen any DS9.
Don't recall, but a "no currency, work because we want to" setting must have some pretty horrific prostitutes.
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 04:05 PM (/Mxso)
You know that's why they invented the Holodeck.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 12:09 PM (4df7R)
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 12:09 PM (3ZtZW)
The other thing I have noticed is that the Gini coefficient, which measures inequality of incomes, is higher in South Africa today than it ever was under apartheid.
Ordinary blacks in SA thought they'd get rid of the white _baas_ and then they would all enjoy bursting shared prosperity.
Nope. They just got a new _baas_, a black one. Who is working them harder for less money than Whitey ever did. And who is selling their country out to the Chinese in a cynical manner that the proud Afrikaner nationalists would never have countenanced.
Posted by: torquewrench at February 06, 2014 12:09 PM (gqT4g)
It makes one wonder what a militaristic expansionist Federation could field.
---
I don't have to wonder. But you would find it fascinating...
Posted by: Bearded Spock at February 06, 2014 12:10 PM (SO2Q8)
So, you know, good luck to the Horde getting them back.
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 03:58 PM (VtjlW)
================================
*offers bribe of some really nice shoes*
Posted by: physics geek at February 06, 2014 12:10 PM (MT22W)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:10 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Soothsayer in 10 Forward with Tribbles at February 06, 2014 12:10 PM (dpjTJ)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 12:11 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:11 PM (RJMhd)
Lincoln: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."
Hussein Obama: "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."
Posted by: historical presidential quotes at February 06, 2014 12:11 PM (wAQA5)
I guess the Franks conquered Gaul which comingled in the Germanic tribes so nevermind.
Posted by: polynikes at February 06, 2014 12:11 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 06, 2014 12:11 PM (Fka6O)
Lots of libs think we stole our success. And in fact think there should be a limit to it.
I think that's one of the reasons pajama boy was so repulsiveÂ…who is this dipshit sitting around in an infants pajamas, sipping coffee on the couch when his pussy face should be out working (or looking for work)?
Posted by: Seems legit at February 06, 2014 02:52 PM (A98Xu)
i found this is true when i was getting divorced and i had 12 beautiful horses. I discovered that there were a large number of people i knew who could have helped me, as i as in bad trouble with a man they knew was abusing me, but did not. WHY? because i was not worse looking than they were, i was in good shape, and i had twelve beautiful horses!
i was shamedly told by one of them much later that it was kinda FUN to watch me struggle and lose my business and all but one of my personal horses because it seemed like i had too much going for me and it was a relief to see my world cut down to size and if i was really abused then i needed to kick the guy to the curb and i just had to do that for myself because he was their friend too and they felt i must be kind of at fault, if things were going wrong "because the truth was more likely somewhere in the middle."
so. IT was cool to help this womans life fall apart, offer no place to hide, help, emotional support or anything because as was noted above "sometimes you have enough?" GOTCHA. Knowing about this has instilled a new fear in me. the fear of those people. i have not s hred of doubt now that i have rebuilt my life there are those who would help themselves to everything i have and BBQ my foals in front of me just because they could and they were tired of seeing me have "enough" and they always wanted a horse and never got one and i have too many.
Now none of them has ever spent any time shoulder deep in a horses ass trying to feel around for an ovary. None of them has spent years of their lives cleaning stalls cleaning tack, waking at 5 am every morning to suck down dust and exercise a horse thats not mine and actively hates them before the day gets hot. But they still somehow feel they deserve that pony dad never got them so i should lose mine. I seriously had this chick explain it to me. I realized then she was apologizing. So they do grow up sometimes, but not without a LOT of life lessons.
Posted by: gushka can has Kittys what plays fetch! at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (f858s)
Not seeing the problem.
It's not like they can steal your soul through a video.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Soothsayer in 10 Forward with Tribbles at February 06, 2014 04:10 PM (dpjTJ)
She was fulfilling the "Magic Black Woman" requirement.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit [/s][/i][/b][/u] at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (4df7R)
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (xq1UY)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 12:12 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: Soothsayer and the Cult Jam
I liked King Kong Escapes better. It had Mecha Kong. Coolest ever.
Posted by: Dang at February 06, 2014 12:13 PM (MNq6o)
Why didn't they have those hot androids from 'I Mudd' clean the toilets?
Just watch, Japan will be there in 20 years.
In 60 years there will be no more Japanese...
Posted by: Bearded Spock at February 06, 2014 12:13 PM (SO2Q8)
You know that's why they invented the Holodeck.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at February 06, 2014 04:09 PM (4df7R)
I think so. Whereas early "holodecks" were just paper bags.
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (/Mxso)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (Aga4y)
Hence Mirrorverse and the Empire.
I'm kicking around a nu!Trek Mary Sue in which said Mary Sue is head of the corporate hegemony which provides Starfleet its weaponry. I want to write it just for a scene in which said Mary Sue shows up to save Kirk, et al and rolls her eyes and says to Kirk "What do you think we do, give 'Fleet the best stuff?" Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (VtjlW)
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 04:02 PM (buZ/
-----------------------------------------------
Communism has never been about helping people. It's always been about an upper elite that accumulates power and money at the expense of the labor of the "masses". That's it's sole purpose.
It's the insuing propaganda of communism that tries to foist the image of a "workers paradise" that so many people have fallen for.
Posted by: Soona at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (ytQi3)
Also, I almost kissed a girl one time!
Posted by: Wesley Crusher at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (jjaLl)
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (qFpRI)
Posted by: AmishDude at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Soothsayer in 10 Forward with Tribbles at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (dpjTJ)
the computer cleans the toilets
the computer makes the food
----
3 centuries later and a woman still does all the housework...
Posted by: Bearded Spock at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (SO2Q8)
Yup. I read somewhere that Germans coming to America were mercilessly picked on and abused by .... the Irish.
Posted by: pep at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (6TB1Z)
They hand-waved that by making it "synthehol", which doesn't make you drunk and/or any effects could be magically banished (it was never entirely clear to me which).
Posted by: Ian S. at February 06, 2014 12:14 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:15 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: tasker at February 06, 2014 12:16 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: Abner "Just Call Me Abbie" Normal [/i] [/b] [/u] [/s] at February 06, 2014 12:16 PM (qlBdX)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:16 PM (7ObY1)
The problem is that people can work long and hard, with intensive effort and devotion of resources, to cough up something that nobody really wants. In the private sector, this usually results in bankruptcy and subsequent recycling of resources. In the public sector, bonuses all around.
So while "Labor is the true standard of value" may be convenient shorthand, it falls far short of the truth. The fact is that service addressing the desires of others is the true standard of value, and that such may be cheerfully rendered by someone quite willing to earn a paycheck is the true value of labor.
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 12:16 PM (T1005)
She was fulfilling the "Magic Black Woman" requirement.
She was fulfilling the "We must make this show even more of a weekly disappointment" requirement.
Posted by: eleven at February 06, 2014 12:16 PM (fsLdt)
Back to my point, you spend some time working billable hours, and you're never going to waste someone else's time or expect something for nothing (if you're a decent human being). I am always immensely grateful if a mechanic doesn't charge me for diagnostic work or a contractor works up an estimate, because as much as that's their sales pitch, their time also has value regardless, and I never expect anyone to provide services free because I in turn hope people respect me enough not to fight me on the value of my time.
Posted by: 0302 at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (hllgx)
Of course of the five or six, I'd say three were also medium to high maintenance and somewhat nuts.
Posted by: nobody at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (UWbv/)
>>>Wait a minute, didn't they have replicators to make all their food?
Notice nobody ever said "Slurpee, Big Gulp, Blue"? Nanny Bloomberg was Hero of the Federation, pal.
Posted by: Bigby's Chapped Hands at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: The Hobo Hooker Waitress Model Actress Wears Prada at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (GeVLX)
I am sure someone has proposed it, but I am not sure that Germany - or the German peoples, to be exact - was more militaristic than any other nation in Europe prior to unification. At a guess I would say it has to do with being unified by the Prussians, who were a very small state with ambitious monarchs that had to be heavily militarized and be very skilled and aggressive to survive in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 06, 2014 04:05 PM (Fka6O)
Well looking at geography, what I have read is they are surrounded by France and Italy which are protected by mountains. France in particular doesn't have many areas of invasion and Italy is in the same situation. Germany has rich land for farming and is usually surrounded by hostile neighbors looking to pick a fight with it. Because of this, Germany and any country in the same area in the past have always had to be more militaristic because of the geographical situation they are in.
Most wars in mainland Europe over the last 1000 years involved Germany (or countries under the Holy Roman Empire) either expanding to try and get a more secure border or defending from other people invading from all sides.
With the EU, Germany is securing itself by dominating Europe economically and not militarily.
Posted by: NWConservative at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (buZ/8)
Tzar Nicholas didn't think mining for gold in Siberia was worth the cost of human lives. Those mines were reopened by Stalin and filled with slave labor from his fellow citizens.
Posted by: Dang at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (MNq6o)
Posted by: BlueStateRebel at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 06, 2014 12:17 PM (ZshNr)
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 12:18 PM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at February 06, 2014 12:18 PM (qFpRI)
*takes the shoes*
Thanks!
Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us, oh mighty SMOD at February 06, 2014 04:18 PM (VtjlW)
=====================================
::grunt:: "Message, sire."
Posted by: physics geek at February 06, 2014 12:19 PM (MT22W)
Posted by: Ian S. at February 06, 2014 12:19 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Carol at February 06, 2014 12:19 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: Wesley Crusher at February 06, 2014 04:14 PM (jjaLl)
----------
Don't be a dick Wesley.
Posted by: Darth Randall at February 06, 2014 12:20 PM (xWgW3)
Posted by: Ian S. at February 06, 2014 04:19 PM (B/VB5)
I heard Synthenol was just legalized in Colorado.
Posted by: Heralder at February 06, 2014 12:20 PM (/Mxso)
Of course of the five or six, I'd say three were also medium to high maintenance and somewhat nuts.
Posted by: nobody at February 06, 2014 04:17 PM (UWbv/)
if you think caring for a horse is hard, girls are a nightmare. and several girls at once. OMG. and all women are nuts. Take it from a woman, and i just train girls to ride and care for horses these days.
Posted by: gushka can has Kittys what plays fetch! at February 06, 2014 12:21 PM (f858s)
Posted by: Sean Bannion, Sycophant to the Royal Court of Alextopia[/i][/s][/u][/b] at February 06, 2014 12:21 PM (yz6yg)
Posted by: Dang at February 06, 2014 04:17 PM (MNq6o)
In a way, that is the story of Obama!
Posted by: Hrothgar at February 06, 2014 12:22 PM (o3MSL)
Posted by: Fritz at February 06, 2014 12:23 PM (TKFmG)
Posted by: Daybrother at February 06, 2014 12:25 PM (bFiwl)
I still would argue that somewhere at sometime a person lashed a rock to the end of a stick and made tools. and he didn't do it with stock options.
If you want to make the case that the local warlord fed the laborers to make the tools, I'll agree. But labor has value. Otherwise, no one would pay to command it.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 12:26 PM (zdCE9)
Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 12:26 PM (MhA4j)
Posted by: SGT Dan at February 06, 2014 12:30 PM (UWbv/)
Heh, took cue from the Swiss.Posted by: panzernashorn at February 06, 2014 12:30 PM (MhA4j)
Comcast ISP customers should be on the alert.
Posted by: Epobirs at February 06, 2014 12:31 PM (bPxS6)
I still would argue that somewhere at sometime a person lashed a rock to the end of a stick and made tools. and he didn't do it with stock options.
If you want to make the case that the local warlord fed the laborers to make the tools, I'll agree. But labor has value. Otherwise, no one would pay to command it.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 04:26 PM (zdCE9) Hide posts from (zdCE9)
It's debunked every time there's someone pullin' his pud by himself -- sure, he may be putting a lot of effort in, but nobody wants the results.
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 12:34 PM (T1005)
Posted by: jmm at February 06, 2014 12:36 PM (K6mgj)
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 04:34 PM (T1005) Hide posts from (T1005)
Are you sure about that? I've got some foreign guy paying $500 a night for some.
Posted by: Sochi Hotel Owner at February 06, 2014 12:39 PM (T1005)
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 04:34 PM (T1005)
non sequitur. one thing does not follow the other.
one thing is self indulgent use of time for self reward, the other is labor that produces something of value.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 12:40 PM (zdCE9)
pud by himself -- sure, he may be putting a lot of effort in, but
nobody wants the results.
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 04:34 PM (T1005)
non sequitur. one thing does not follow the other.one thing is self indulgent use of time for self reward, the other is labor that produces something of value.
Posted by: another smith at February 06, 2014 04:40 PM (zdCE9) Hide posts from (zdCE9)
See -- that right there is your problem. Lincoln said, "Labor is the true standard of value" and I point out that value doesn't arise from labor because you can labor away for valueless purposes. Then you say it isn't debunked because someone can create something of value, and I point out that things are only valuable if someone might want them. Now you're saying "the other is labor that produces something of value" which gets right back to the beginning of the circle -- "labor that produces value is the true standard of value."
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 12:50 PM (T1005)
Value stems from desire. And labor is putting forth effort to satisfy that desire.
Posted by: cthulhu at February 06, 2014 01:00 PM (T1005)
Posted by: Socratease at February 06, 2014 01:51 PM (SZUi2)
Posted by: Pastafarian at February 06, 2014 01:54 PM (pCf+a)
Posted by: adc at February 06, 2014 02:12 PM (QRtGH)
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 06, 2014 02:15 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 06, 2014 02:18 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at February 06, 2014 02:19 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Tonawanda at February 06, 2014 02:40 PM (mE1l+)
Posted by: AMinVA at February 06, 2014 03:05 PM (KaofE)
Posted by: howardfrombroward at February 06, 2014 03:45 PM (hwBAi)
Posted by: Buckeye Katie at February 06, 2014 03:55 PM (1M/xn)
Posted by: NYC Parent at February 06, 2014 03:58 PM (u7qiU)
Posted by: NYC Parent at February 06, 2014 04:03 PM (u7qiU)
How ironical.
Posted by: goy at February 06, 2014 04:42 PM (oGez1)
Posted by: Shoey at February 06, 2014 05:37 PM (vA94g)
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Posted by: NCKate at February 06, 2014 10:32 AM (K/OhM)