March 07, 2014
— Ace Ted Cruz named the Republicans' three most recent losing candidates -- Dole, McCain, and Romney -- as having failed to stand on principle, which then, he suggests, caused them to lose.
McCain asks, rhetorically (and arguably demagogically), if Bob Dole had failed to "stand on principle" on "that hill in Italy" in which he lost his limb defending the country in World War II. He wants Cruz to apologize to Dole, but not, he says, to himself or Romney.
If I try to give McCain a break here, here's how I do it. Both sides of the RINO/TrueCon war have insults for the other side that drive the other side crazy.
RINOs hate it when you suggest they're "cowards" who "lack principle" or "the will to fight." I've gotten that a lot myself, and it is, as intended, quite personally insulting.
On the other side of it, RINOs have their own disparagements of TrueCons -- starting off with the suggestion that they're crazy, that they lack sophistication and don't understand politics, are overemotional, and so on.
So while I think it's a bit of stretch for McCain to claim Cruz was claiming Dole shirked his duty in World War Two (come on, he said nothing of the sort), I can guess that what rankles McCain here is this frequent messaging that RINOs, such as himself, are "cowards." Cruz's formulation -- that these men failed to "stand on principle"-- doesn't explicitly make the "coward" argument, but it does suggest it.
On McCain's side, of course, he has called Tea Partiers "hobbits" and other terms of disparagement. And in his call for an apology to War Hero Bob Dole, he's not-too-covertly reminding the audience that Ted Cruz didn't serve.
There are several real arguments going on in the conservative movement. Most of these have to do with real things -- policy, tactics.
I think what the party is doing, wrongly, is attempting to dodge the actual arguments by resorting to personal-level attacks.
Which is exactly the wrong thing to do. Rather than engaging and arguing about the stuff that actually divides us, we're attempting to hide these arguments (which everyone knows we have) under a cover of personal attacks.
Which are in fact worse and more embittering than just having the argument we're trying to avoid.
Arguments about ideology and tactics are not exactly pleasant, but there is, at least, a small bit of detachment from them, on a personal level. If I argue with a commenter about X position, the fight could get edgy and hot, but at least we're arguing about something other than one another's personal value.
Once something gets personal, forget about it.
This is why I say this is all backwards. We're avoiding a fight (which could be productive and clarifying) on the actual issues (which do need to be discussed) by instead resorting to personal stuff and argument-by-categorization.
That is, rather than discuss the actual issue, we tend to simply categorize the position -- "RINO," "buying into the left's premises," "crazy," etc. -- and let the categorization do our arguing for us.
But this isn't an especially useful way to discuss things, just tossing disparaging labels at each other or each other's positions.
I've given up, personally, deciding what position I support based on how "conservative" it's alleged to be, or not to be. The party is in a state of flux. When Rand Paul can be applauded for advocating a fairly isolationist position at CPAC -- imagine such a thing in 2003 -- I think it's clear we're in a rebuilding, and reconsidering, and rethinking period.
There is no point fighting that, and no use trying to avoid it. And it doesn't advance the ball any by calling things either "RINO" or "crazy" based on 2004's now-obsolete definitions.
We should decide which ideas are part of the core of conservatism based upon how true and useful those ideas are rather than resorting to how true and useful and idea might be according to how "conservative" someone says it is.
Oh, and let me say this about the unending Cruz/McCain feud: They should insult each other honestly. I think honesty, even in insults, is better than dishonesty.
Here is what Cruz plainly thinks about McCain: That McCain is essentially a Democrat, who values the opinions of liberals (especially liberal journalists) far more than those of conservatives. And we all seek to please those we think the most highly of. And so McCain is consistently critical of conservatives. He flatters liberal sensibilities in hopes they will flatter him in return.
And here is what McCain plainly thinks about Cruz: That he's a charlatan who's offering people looking for Big Wins the illusory promise of a Big Win, that he's conning people, that he's not being "straight" with constituents. That he's undermining Republicans to advance his own personal political position.
Now, a fight between McCain and Cruz in those terms would be ugly. But at least it would have the benefit of being an honest fight, not this bullshit we have going on right now.
And one more thing: "Moderation" in the Republican party is currently a slur because no one at all speaks up for it. Everyone claims to be The Most Conservative Possible, Ever. Except for a few people, like Collins and Kirk, almost everyone claims to be the Most Conservative, and claims to think the Most Conservative always wins.
Moderates plainly do not believe this. And it does them no credit that they pretend to believe it while plainly not really believing it.
And if they want to make a bit of moderation -- as McCain clearly has in him -- not a term of disparagement, they have to speak up in favor of it, and explain to people why they think moderation is not always some kind of sell-out position.
You know, I used to fight this characterization myself. People would say I was a moderate or not as conservative as they are, and it really used to bug me. I felt like I was "losing" the race. I mean, someone says he's more conservative than I am; I can't let that insult stand.
But in fact, look: In the wild west, there's always gonna be someone faster than you, and there are in fact going to be an awful lot of people further to the right than any particular person.
We're letting this be a silly game of More Conservative Than Thou precisely because we're letting this be a silly game of More Conservative Than Thou.
If McCain believes that some people are too conservative, then why does he not just forthrightly say so, and make a case for a Not Too Hard, Not Too Soft brand of conservatism?
Why continue this endless posturing over the game show Quien es Muy Macho? ?
If he thinks it's a silly game, he should say so. I'd respect him more for that.
I really think this system we've developed where all our actual debates are either sublimated or squelched is a bad one. All that ends up happening is that what should be discussed on an ideological plane winds up becoming personalized trash-talk, and everyone feels lied to, because no one's being straight with each other.
Posted by: Ace at
01:35 PM
| Comments (420)
Post contains 1241 words, total size 7 kb.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars™ [/i] [/b] [/s] [/u] at March 07, 2014 01:38 PM (HsTG8)
Posted by: sound awake at March 07, 2014 01:39 PM (pk/NG)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 01:39 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: standfast24 at March 07, 2014 01:40 PM (wx/BY)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:40 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 01:40 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 07, 2014 01:40 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 01:41 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: sound awake at March 07, 2014 01:42 PM (pk/NG)
Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at March 07, 2014 01:42 PM (PMsuJ)
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at March 07, 2014 01:42 PM (KL49F)
Dole lost in part because he couldn't evade the "too conservative" label Clinton/Morris painted on him, that was the year of "triangulation" which the public bought.
McCain was ahead or within the margin of error in every poll after he named Palin his running mate UNTIL he stupidly "suspended" his campaign to rush to DC for the financial crisis. It was blatant grandstanding, Obama basically shrugged it off, and McCain never recovered. His biggest problem was Bush Fatigue, not ideology.
Despite Obama's lies and cover-up of Benghazi and ObamaCare, despite his top-notch GOTV effort which turned out the black and young voters for him again despite his pathetic results for them, and even with the IRS sabotage of conservative groups, Romney would have won if white voters had turned out in the same numbers they did in 2004.
It's easy to make broad statements that cater to the audience. Cruz is good at that, and at promoting himself. That's not leadership, though.
Posted by: Adjoran at March 07, 2014 01:43 PM (QIQ6j)
Posted by: sound awake at March 07, 2014 01:43 PM (pk/NG)
Posted by: Kas(ktgreat) at March 07, 2014 01:43 PM (Bl4dy)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 01:44 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:44 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:44 PM (A98Xu)
They hate it because it's T-R-U-E!! They doth protest tooooooo much! They look desperate when they trot out the old " but so and so was a hero in the war!!!1eleventy"
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at March 07, 2014 01:44 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (0LHZx)
Posted by: Ted Czru at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (hq5sb)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: EC at March 07, 2014 01:45 PM (doBIb)
You can argue with them about tactics, but without the same ultimate goal it is meaningless and irritating to do so.
Posted by: Thatch at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (qYvEa)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (bitz6)
Political arguments among either party's base are never won by reason. They're won by numbers and hatred and emoting. This blog is a perfect example: think about how most of the old-school commenters were driven out with insults and attacks for failing to hew assiduously to what (in a spurt around 2010) became the dominant TrueCon ballast. The new people took the "hey, we use rough language here" ethos of the blog as an excuse to get as vicious and gang-rapey on dissidents as possible, and those who had the temerity to match their rhetoric from the opposing side were even more singled out.
Let's not kid ourselves: they'd string you up by your balls if they could get away with it, and the only reason they can't is because you're the bloghost.
These are the truths. The ugly ones. You know them -- you even admit them when most aren't looking -- but there's nothing anyone can do about them.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (ewYO6)
So the least liked repub senator takes a shot a the most liked repub senator.
ok then.
Its almost like McCain is now a democrat, I haven't heard him say anything about Reid lately.....hmmmmm....
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (gorVZ)
Posted by: John McCain at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (Aif/5)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 01:46 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: lowandslow at March 07, 2014 01:47 PM (IV4od)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:47 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:47 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: --- at March 07, 2014 01:47 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Fritz at March 07, 2014 01:48 PM (UzPAd)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 07, 2014 01:48 PM (hq5sb)
Posted by: Bob Dole [/i] at March 07, 2014 01:48 PM (CnA98)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:48 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 01:48 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: Lauren at March 07, 2014 01:49 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 01:49 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:50 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: Weldone Shitpanski MD, GOP old folks home at March 07, 2014 01:50 PM (wAQA5)
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 01:50 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:50 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (dR1z4)
Posted by: votermom at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (1IiKV)
Posted by: Lee__ at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (xWPG3)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: John McCain at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (mETGQ)
This is an accusation that might make sense when leveled against politicians -- who after need to compete for votes -- but none at all when addressed to bloggers or people commenting on blogs. And yet it's used far more against the latter than the former.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at March 07, 2014 01:51 PM (CnA98)
Posted by: cormac_mcroadie at March 07, 2014 01:52 PM (qjs74)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (ndlFj)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (gBnkX)
McCain represents everything that is wrong with Washington- on both sides.
He's a bumbling, incoherent who actually believes what he says somehow is meaningful, authoritative and respected.
It is not. It is just another sign of someone who has been cloistered in the boundaries of DC cloak rooms for too long. His favorite person is his reflection.
He also feisty, but not in a good way. Sort of like this aggressive bum I pass in the Bowery every so often. He lashes out at me and I lash back. Then he states I should "respect my elders". I tell him he is not "my"elder. He just a kook. Then he laughs, takes another swig and walks away talking to himself.
Hey wait- is that you John?
Posted by: Marcus T. Tired of the Mendacious Tripe at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (ztpgc)
Posted by: zombie at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (mizYg)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 05:51 PM (oMKp3)
So, watch this !
Posted by: Bob Dole's Boner at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:53 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:54 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Bob Dole's Boner at March 07, 2014 01:54 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:54 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: --- at March 07, 2014 01:54 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Weldone Shitpanski MD, GOP old folks home at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (wAQA5)
Posted by: Rcardo Kill at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (gOoFi)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (/FnUH)
No, not always. But in certain cases? Oh yes, very much so. Do I need to go over all the old examples?
This isn't to say that other factions of the conservative movement -- or the GOP, or ANY party for that matter -- don't make the same mistake at times (and let's be clear on something here: it is always, always, ALWAYS a mistake to act on emotion rather than logic, at any time and for any reason), but that the TP is the tail that wags the GOP dog more often than not these days and they've made more prominent mistakes than their progressive analogues, largely because major swathes have embraced maximalist (as opposed to incrementalist) attitudes.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Sen John McCain at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (Aif/5)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (Q1BWs)
Secretly, McCain apologized to Cruz and old him "mums the word".
Posted by: Marcus T. Tired of the Mendacious Tripe at March 07, 2014 01:55 PM (ztpgc)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: garrett at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: Ignoramus at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (EPEqj)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 07, 2014 01:56 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Sen. Juan McAmnesty at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (nbGZj)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: Y-not hasn't read the comments yet at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (zDsvJ)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 07, 2014 05:55 PM (kdS6q)<<
A laughing cervix. Now- there's something you don't see every day.
Posted by: Marcus T. Tired of the Mendacious Tripe at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (ztpgc)
Posted by: John McCain at March 07, 2014 01:57 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: Weldone Shitpanski MD, GOP old folks home at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (wAQA5)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (r+7wo)
Posted by: dogfish at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (nsOJa)
Like a moth to the flame, so went Juan going to the flame lit by G. Soros.
It was a stroke of genius, you have to admit.
Posted by: navybrat at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (AW7Gr)
Posted by: zombie at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (mizYg)
Posted by: John McCain at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: John McCain got in Bob Dole's viagra at March 07, 2014 01:58 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Bob Dole's Boner at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (nTgAI)
Well, anger is dumb. It clouds your mind and makes you act irrationally. It brings no benefit whatsoever in democratic political decisionmaking, though there are of course people out there who will still make apologies for it. "Outrage" is a stronger, more reliable political virtue. Anger, though? Feh. I get angry about politics all the time (seriously, I don't think you people understand just how fucking much I hate Barack Obama and the Democratic Left), but I suppress that emotion, sit on it, and make my thoughts as cold and calculating as I possibly can.
It's the only way to survive as an endangered species, which is what conservatives are. "Smart" lives..."stupid" dies.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: McCainiac at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (hpgw1)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (r+7wo)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 07, 2014 01:59 PM (9JPz+)
Posted by: Boss Moss at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (bitz6)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: Kama Sutra at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (PTdRK)
Posted by: phreshone at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (Q6pxP)
Don't forget money is power in DC. It is why the party is going after him.
"Follow the money".
Posted by: Marcus T. Tired of the Mendacious Tripe at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (ztpgc)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (9JPz+)
Posted by: NCwoof at March 07, 2014 02:00 PM (aUQgu)
Posted by: Jedi Master at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (Aif/5)
Posted by: zombie at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (mizYg)
If, by some happy coincidence McCain had won in 2008, I am not convinced that he would not have bolloxed up the USA any less than Obama did.
Posted by: navybrat at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (AW7Gr)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: ace at March 07, 2014 05:51 PM (/FnUH)
--------------------------------------------
Then I would ask you, of which principles are you speaking? If it's a principle on which I disagree then I will concur with that assessment and give you reasons why I don't support them. Nothing personal.
I won't come at you by saying that I'm a Vietnam vet and how dare you insult me with that statement.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Nylon66 at March 07, 2014 02:01 PM (YELrK)
Posted by: Bob Dole's Boner at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: votermom at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (bBOXC)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: Tom Cruise at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (8MjqI)
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (c72dm)
Posted by: redguy at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (d8wEw)
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (SwHqo)
Posted by: toby928© at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 06:00 PM (gBnkX)
ding. ding. ding.
At one time Tip O'neil and the Dems might do 25% of what they promised, but since 2000, it's all radical, all the time
Posted by: phreshone at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (Q6pxP)
Do you honestly believe this, in your heart? Or is it something you would like to believe, that you wish were true?
Because I hate to tell you this, but Ted Cruz is currently one of the most unpopular politicians in all of America, and the numbers don't lie. Can they change? Sure they can change. But first impressions can be deadly, and as much as Cruz's first impression may have thrilled you, it revolted the rest of middle America. This is not a value judgment -- it is a reading of numbers. If 2012 taught us any one thing, it's to stop dismissing numbers we don't like merely because they fail to align with That Which We Wish Would Be True.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 02:02 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at March 07, 2014 02:03 PM (9JPz+)
Posted by: rufus at March 07, 2014 02:03 PM (XO5DS)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at March 07, 2014 02:03 PM (9Bdcz)
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 07, 2014 02:03 PM (pWzW/)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:03 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (olDqf)
Posted by: Andy at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (pmDdf)
Posted by: Judge Pug at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (hJnUx)
Posted by: --- at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (MMC8r)
Maybe McCain's hatred towards conservatives goes back to his Vietnam days?
Back then...liberals were against the Vietnam War, liberals on both sides.
And conservatives, on both sides, were supportive of it.
I dunno what it is.
But McCain obviously hates conservatives...and agrees more with Dems than he does with R's.
So, fuck him.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (cuECK)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2014 02:04 PM (r+7wo)
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 07, 2014 02:05 PM (DL2i+)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:05 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:05 PM (ZPrif)
I present to you the Democrat Party, in the driver's seat with the pedal on the floor since '06.
Are you effin' kidding me? The Democrats have their voter appeal calculated down to the most insanely cynical, cold-blooded, reptilian operation imaginable. There isn't one SHRED of emotionalism in their campaign positioning, it's all about running the numbers and playing them with brutal effectiveness.
I both hate them for it and also grudgingly acknowledge that they know how the play the fucking game.
Now the voters who cast their ballots for Democrats...THEY are being governed by emotion (and in so doing are making stupid choices, I would argue), but that only proves my point now doesn't it?
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 02:05 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: lowandslow at March 07, 2014 02:06 PM (IV4od)
Posted by: wooga at March 07, 2014 02:06 PM (Q1BWs)
Posted by: Not an Artist at March 07, 2014 02:06 PM (uRumV)
Posted by: Rcardo Kill at March 07, 2014 02:06 PM (gOoFi)
McCain is a reactionary. Every world event, bomb!. Every time someone says something about his old gang, apologize!. Every suggested cut, he says Spend!. Every bill the dems bring to the floor, he says Yes!.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2014 02:06 PM (gorVZ)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:07 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:07 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2014 02:07 PM (r+7wo)
But McCain obviously hates conservatives...and agrees more with Dems than he does with R's.
So, fuck him.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 06:04 PM (cuECK)
Juan is not smart... see his ranking at the Academy...It's just plain easier to believe that all his friends in the club are smart and not-evil, so conservatism must be wrong.
Posted by: phreshone at March 07, 2014 02:08 PM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:08 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 02:08 PM (d0SZ/)
Posted by: Weldone Shitpanski MD, GOP old folks home at March 07, 2014 02:09 PM (wAQA5)
I am open to that idea, to the idea that Cruz's tactics aren't effective. I don't necessarily agree, but that's always a useful discussion to have.
But McCain, and Graham and others, seem to think that their tactics are the only effective ones and the only *moral* ones. Republicans who say mean things about Democrats are wacko-birds and vile evil men, in their minds.
So the only people McCain says mean things about, are Republicans. (And he tells tales out of school, in private, to reporters, all for the sake of his own ego.) That doesn't impress me.Posted by: cormac_mcroadie at March 07, 2014 02:09 PM (qjs74)
Posted by: John McCain at March 07, 2014 02:09 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at March 07, 2014 02:09 PM (CnA98)
Posted by: toby928© at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (r+7wo)
181...Heck, I'm having trouble remembering who his running mate was. It was a long time ago.
It was Jack Kemp, wasn't it?
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (cuECK)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (IXrOn)
How DARE this young upstart criticize War Hero Bob!
Let's remind ourselves that not every valorous veteran is going to be a superb person or a worthwhile political figure in later life. Recognize prior service for what it is and keep it in context.
There are some guys I know who served honorably and bravely but who I wouldn't trust to so much as take out the kitchen garbage.
Duke Cunningham was an absolutely incredible Vietnam air combat ace, who bravely took the fight to the enemy over and over, and put a huge hurt on them. Including winning one of _the_ all time classic jet fighter duels. Cunningham then went into politics and turned out to be an utterly corrupt shitheel after a few years marinating in the Beltway culture of graft.
Posted by: torquewrench at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (gqT4g)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:10 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:11 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:11 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Splurge at March 07, 2014 02:12 PM (qyomX)
Posted by: Alf767 at March 07, 2014 02:13 PM (VuDcL)
Posted by: seamrog at March 07, 2014 02:13 PM (md15Z)
Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at March 07, 2014 02:13 PM (d0SZ/)
Posted by: zombie at March 07, 2014 02:13 PM (mizYg)
Posted by: toby928© at March 07, 2014 02:13 PM (QupBk)
Mr. McCain deserves some thanks and approval for his service to his country. He also deserves some accolades for having experienced almost the very worst that can happen to a serving member of the Armed Forces during a conflict.
That said, he has NOT performed well in his time in office. He has NOT brought honor on his State or himself OR the Senate. He has been a perpetual burr under the blanket for many of his colleagues who were trying to legislate as statesmen for the country and not a publicity seeking self styled rebel who delighted in screwing over his colleagues, his party, his State and his Country.
His last run for office, in my opinion, was done solely to act as a spoiler for other candidates and to rub the noses of GW Bush in the fact that he won the nomination. When faced with the prospect of possibly winning the office, he allowed his opponent to outshine him and in fact seemed to express the idea that his opponent would be a better President than he himself would be.
His continued time as a Senator has been just as filled with rancor and spite as previous years and seems to be the only pride he has is in being a spoiler.
He gives Old Men a bad name.
He should apologize to Mr. Cruz for making it so Mr. Cruz has to spend his time counteracting Mr. McCain's tantrums and acts of sabotage.
He has counter balanced everything he ever did to the good in his previous years. He should resign forthwith with an abject apology and remove himself from politics forever.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:14 PM (LSDdO)
Maybe cut that back a bit to 22/5.
Is that so much to ask?
Posted by: navybrat at March 07, 2014 02:14 PM (AW7Gr)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:15 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Fred Thompson at March 07, 2014 02:15 PM (Q6pxP)
Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at March 07, 2014 02:15 PM (CnA98)
Posted by: Margarita who wishes she drank more at March 07, 2014 02:16 PM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:16 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Big Ben at March 07, 2014 02:16 PM (I5Htn)
Posted by: dogfish at March 07, 2014 02:16 PM (nsOJa)
Posted by: Cleric at March 07, 2014 02:19 PM (LoX5a)
Why this accusation? I'm off the Christie bandwagon, he's damaged goods. And I'll eat a gun before I cast a vote for a Democrat, especially Hillary. I'm terribly afraid she'll win, but then I felt the same way about Obama and it wasn't like I secretly loved him or anything.
I'll cast a general election vote for pretty much any damn fool the GOP nominates for President, whether it's someone like Ted Cruz (who I'm obviously not much of a fan of, and it has nothing to do with his conservatism but rather his tactics) or someone who I prefer more like Walker or Paul. I don't walk away if my guy loses the primary. I never, ever, ever will. (And fuck third-party voting -- that's voting Democrat by any other name unless you live in a safe Blue state.)
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 02:19 PM (ewYO6)
If the GOP takes the senate this year I'd bet money if Macky Mac isn't appointed majority leader he will leave the GOP and become a Dem just to slap us all in the face. Living in Arizona I have done every thing I could to try and get Mac Moron out, but for some reason, mainly his tough talk about border security and anything else people want to hear at the time, people believe this liar and vote him back in.
Sorry for the rant, but Mac Malcontent really strikes a nerve with me.
Posted by: cemoto at March 07, 2014 02:19 PM (BD4BL)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:20 PM (gBnkX)
Demands for perfection are actually overblown, though. The internet makes the idiots and trolls appear more numerous than they actually are.
Posted by: JohnJ at March 07, 2014 02:20 PM (TF/YA)
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2014 02:20 PM (slXFW)
http://nydn.us/MV6gWU
Posted by: alexthechick - come for the Global Warming stay for the SMOD at March 07, 2014 02:20 PM (Gk3SS)
And WHICH white voters?
Some say it was because Romney was too moderate.
Some say it was because he didn't appeal to the white working class. (I think that's more likely.)
I've always wondered whether a sizable number of Christians failed to turn out because of issues with his Mormonism. I know of no evidence pointing in this direction, but it's not utterly implausible.
Posted by: Splunge at March 07, 2014 02:20 PM (qyomX)
Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy-Eared Vulcan at March 07, 2014 02:21 PM (sPO/s)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:21 PM (ZPrif)
And, that is what is so frustrating about RINOs. The slur does get to the real problem. They want to be able to be thought of as fighters in the cause, but then when it comes time to actually have the fight, all of a sudden it is real important to strike a deal and to "get things done". They want the credit that the conservative label implies, without being bound by its meaning.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 07, 2014 02:21 PM (IN7k+)
Once upon a time, it was understood that running for the highest office was, win or lose, the last position you ever ran for (at least once you have your party's nomination).
Posted by: Rusty Nail at March 07, 2014 02:21 PM (WtVhX)
Posted by: Lauren at March 07, 2014 02:21 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at March 07, 2014 02:22 PM (qyfb5)
214...But why didn't they turn out?
And WHICH white voters?
Some say it was because Romney was too moderate.
Some say it was because he didn't appeal to the white working class. (I think that's more likely.)
------------
Some of our fellow morons here didn't vote for Romney.
And they've said it was because of RomneyCare....and because Romney wasn't conservative enough.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 02:22 PM (cuECK)
little Johnny McCain is one of them. This guy is the most vile and unstable person in the senate.
-----------------------------------------
I beg to differ a smidge. He and the pederast, Harry Reid are tied in that department. Still, birds of a feather.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:22 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 07, 2014 02:22 PM (W6Jq2)
Posted by: Cleric at March 07, 2014 02:23 PM (LoX5a)
Don't be sorry. Exactly my feelings....you put it into words. And I don't live in AZ. I've heard locally he is a real bastard.
Posted by: NCwoof at March 07, 2014 02:23 PM (aUQgu)
And a shitty pilot.
Posted by: navybrat at March 07, 2014 02:23 PM (AW7Gr)
Some say it was because he didn't appeal to the white working class. (I think that's more likely.)
......
Posted by: Margarita who wishes she drank more at March 07, 2014 06:16 PM (dfYL9)
The marketing word is 'Differentiation'
Nixonian moving to the center won't work post-Reagan... Reagan was differentiated, and Dubya/Rove effectively differentiated (and Rove has since lost his way). By not vetoing GOP spending, Dubya crushed the differentiated brand, to the point the Dems were able to run and win on 'Fiscal sanity' in 2006. If the candidate can't talk about what is different, the MFM is never going to allow it.
Posted by: Marketing 101 at March 07, 2014 02:24 PM (Q6pxP)
====
On the other hand, both Romney and McCain did quite well for themselves by being just to the left of every one else during their respective winning primary seasons.
Posted by: mrp at March 07, 2014 02:24 PM (JBggj)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:24 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Mike at March 07, 2014 02:24 PM (ndljJ)
Posted by: lowandslow at March 07, 2014 02:25 PM (IV4od)
Posted by: Cleric at March 07, 2014 02:25 PM (LoX5a)
Posted by: Rcardo Kill at March 07, 2014 02:26 PM (gOoFi)
Speaking of production values, has anybody seen these "crash course" vids on youtube. Been watching the World History ones lately, pretty good, even if I disagree with some of his conclusions, the production is awesome.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 07, 2014 02:26 PM (gorVZ)
Posted by: wth at March 07, 2014 02:26 PM (wAQA5)
One of the best Iowahawk tweets:
@SenatorReid I will donate $100 to your campaign if you sign a legally-binding pledge not to molest my children.
Posted by: Splunge at March 07, 2014 02:26 PM (qyomX)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at March 07, 2014 02:27 PM (qyfb5)
Posted by: kartoffel at March 07, 2014 02:28 PM (sWwJZ)
Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 07, 2014 02:28 PM (b9fEe)
John McCain - Suffers the second worst defeat by a Republican presidential candidate in 80 something years. Dares to talk smack about anything.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 07, 2014 02:29 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:30 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Soros at March 07, 2014 02:30 PM (5ikDv)
Unlike McCain, Johnson is not a self-aggrandizing glory hound.
As far as the Republican Party, I hear that they have found the Reagan Democrats they've been looking for. As soon as they give them citizenship.
Posted by: Usedtocould at March 07, 2014 02:31 PM (Q5wIZ)
Bush was elected in 2000 on a promise of a more humble less interventionist foreign policy. It was 9/11 that turned him into a crusader.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at March 07, 2014 02:31 PM (P/gm7)
Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at March 07, 2014 02:31 PM (5ikDv)
He told us he was proud of MassCare.
He told us he wouldn't try to repeal ObamaCare.
He told us he was Pro Choice.
He hemmed and hawwed about amnesty.
He whined about the 47% instead of using that number to point out how badly Obama had done about jobs. Instead he made it seem that those without a job somehow wanted it that way.
Then he said stuff that contrdicted all of the previous items once he realized he was going to lose big otherwise.
I didn't trust him much but I KNEW I couldn't trust Obama at all.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:31 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:32 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:32 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: President Dole, President McCain and President Romney[/i] [/b] at March 07, 2014 02:34 PM (BmmBm)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 07, 2014 06:29 PM (kdS6q)
-----------------------------------------
He knows he's burned his bridges and is a political loser. Now more than ever. It's like watching a mean drunk in a bar get verbally steamrolled by the waitress.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:34 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 07, 2014 02:34 PM (g4TxM)
Posted by: Fritz at March 07, 2014 02:34 PM (PnMCP)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:35 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:35 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 07, 2014 02:36 PM (sYH+w)
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 02:36 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:37 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 07, 2014 02:37 PM (oFCZn)
I expect him to be a useful idiot for Democrats around the country after he retires, sort of like a John Warner on steroids.
I also see him pulling a Lieberman and endorsing Hillary, you can take that to the bank, especially if it's someone like Rand Paul or Ted Cruz she's up against.
Posted by: McAdams at March 07, 2014 02:37 PM (/MENw)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:38 PM (gBnkX)
At this point Bob Dole barely knows who Bob Dole is..... and it's killing Bob Dole to say that. I think Bob Dole just pooped Bob Doles pants.
Posted by: Bob Dole at March 07, 2014 02:38 PM (jucos)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 07, 2014 02:38 PM (ojOys)
A crusader who led a crusade which failed. At enormous expense of blood and treasure.
Proving that the original stance of a less interventionist foreign policy was wise.
While massively damaging the GOP brand. Yay, we're the party of abruptly changing our minds AND of fucking up horribly! Who wouldn't want to be on that train?
Meanwhile, Democrats picked up the original theme of noninterventionism and used it to grease the skids with a war-weary public to put Obama in to succeed Bush.
Bushes delenda est.
Posted by: torquewrench at March 07, 2014 02:39 PM (gqT4g)
That's McCain. He'll cause as much damage as possible on the way out. Count on it.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 07, 2014 06:37 PM (oFCZn)
---------------------------------------------
This is true.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:39 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: Margarita who wishes she drank more at March 07, 2014 02:40 PM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 07, 2014 02:40 PM (ojOys)
Posted by: ombudsman at March 07, 2014 02:42 PM (zhdFI)
Damn, a TrueCon/RINO thread grinds to a halt before 300 posts?
Posted by: Burn the Witch
The pivot point is McCain, who frankly everyone hates, thus kinda hard to string our longbows/crossbows for one of our cheerful family fights about who has to move their car out of the driveway.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 07, 2014 02:42 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 07, 2014 02:42 PM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:42 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: AmishDude at March 07, 2014 02:43 PM (ipsov)
Posted by: Arlean Spector [/i] at March 07, 2014 02:43 PM (CnA98)
No, I've learned my lesson. 'Tis better to eat, than Tweet.
Posted by: Meggie McMac at March 07, 2014 02:44 PM (Dwehj)
He also was for amnesty, he articulated no jobs plan.
He was going to be another NE liberal Rino Go along President in the pattern of the two Bushes.
They'd already been through that and just sat it out. I voted for him but I didn't think he'd do very much good as President. More as a place keeper to get Obama out.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:44 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: L, elle at March 07, 2014 02:44 PM (0xqKe)
Posted by: AmishDude at March 07, 2014 06:43 PM (ipsov)
--------------------------------------------
I think that's "rcist" now.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:44 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:45 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:45 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: dogfish at March 07, 2014 02:46 PM (nsOJa)
People are saying that Christie has redeemed himself with that CPAC speech...
Saying "He's Back!".
Is that true?
Is all forgiven now...after just one speech?
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 02:46 PM (cuECK)
Posted by: Romneybot 9000 at March 07, 2014 02:47 PM (5ikDv)
Posted by: Margarita who wishes she drank more at March 07, 2014 02:47 PM (dfYL9)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 07, 2014 02:48 PM (ZPrif)
NO.
If there's one thing I've learned, people don't change.
Let them show their true nature and usually it stays the same over long periods of time. Sad but true.
That doesn't mean that people can't change their behavior. But they usually had it in them to do good (or ill) before the change.
Christie's an ambitious pugnacious bully.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:49 PM (LSDdO)
We: used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 07, 2014 02:49 PM (X9Mnx)
Posted by: Fred at March 07, 2014 02:49 PM (UDPvg)
Posted by: dogfish at March 07, 2014 02:50 PM (nsOJa)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:50 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:50 PM (gBnkX)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 07, 2014 02:50 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: ombudsman at March 07, 2014 02:51 PM (zhdFI)
Shots of Jose Cuervo for all!
Posted by: NCwoof at March 07, 2014 02:51 PM (aUQgu)
>Yeah but then the mean drunk goes home, gets a can of gas and some chain, and comes back to the bar. He chains the door shut and sets the place on fire. That's McCain.
Only if he can remember where he put his car keys. And what street the bar was on.
Posted by: wth at March 07, 2014 02:51 PM (wAQA5)
I didn't say he was good at it.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (P/gm7)
Posted by: Lauren at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (hFL/3)
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (slXFW)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (gBnkX)
I wept all over the god-king's pants creases.
Posted by: Kris Kristie at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (Dwehj)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: president o'bumbles at March 07, 2014 02:52 PM (hn5v5)
I do most of my deciding during the primaries.
Once the nominee is in, then I decide whether I vote or not.
They're going to really have to impress me come 2016.
No rino's, no Paul's, no up and coming Senators with glib answers and easy patter.
Got to be someone with background and honesty.
it's a slim field.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:53 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: NCwoof at March 07, 2014 02:53 PM (aUQgu)
Posted by: toby928© at March 07, 2014 02:54 PM (QupBk)
It's so true. Shit, I might even offer a qualified defense of Susan Collins...but goddamn am I tired of John McCain.
Posted by: Jeff B. at March 07, 2014 02:54 PM (ewYO6)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:55 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: dogfish at March 07, 2014 02:55 PM (nsOJa)
NONE of what they say can you be sure comes from THEIR heart.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:56 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 06:52 PM (oMKp3)
Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Christie is not my favorite candidate either, but we need to WIN. Do you have any doubt that a candidate like Christie, imperfect that he is, would be a superior president to Hillary Clinton?
Posted by: ombudsman at March 07, 2014 02:56 PM (zhdFI)
Posted by: NCwoof at March 07, 2014 06:53 PM (aUQgu)
-------------------------------------------
I'm scratching my head over this too.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:56 PM (IaanB)
There's a reason for that.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:56 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 02:57 PM (gBnkX)
Well...I just want a Win in 2016.
Not sure that Christie is the guy who can pull that off.
I think he's got more skeletons in his closet than BridgeGate...and the Dems will dig them all out, if he's the nominee.
He's also been known to explode and say stupid shit when he gets pissed off.
Which could kill his chances for a Win.
Christie wouldn't be my 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd choice for an R-candidate.
But I'm one of those dutiful, pragmatic voters who would vote for him if he were the nominee.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 02:57 PM (cuECK)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 02:57 PM (LSDdO)
Now go fuck yourself with a stick.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at March 07, 2014 02:57 PM (pgQxn)
Here we go again...
Posted by: Mitt at March 07, 2014 02:58 PM (Dwehj)
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 02:58 PM (oMKp3)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 07, 2014 02:58 PM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 07, 2014 02:59 PM (oFCZn)
Posted by: ombudsman at March 07, 2014 06:56 PM (zhdFI)
--------------------------------------------
That's why some of us are obstinate against Christie. We're not sure.
Posted by: Soona at March 07, 2014 02:59 PM (IaanB)
Posted by: L, elle at March 07, 2014 02:59 PM (0xqKe)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 02:59 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 07, 2014 03:00 PM (slXFW)
323 Why is Christie in any sane conversation? Did I miss something?
Sorry...that was me who brought him up.
I did so because people were talking about 'Why Romney, McCain and Dole lost their elections'.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 03:00 PM (cuECK)
On immigration, we'd have another demoralising repeat of Bush's second term where conservatives had to push back against their own party and stop that shit.
On guns, Christie might be good - if the Republicans could simultaneously lock up both houses for four-to-eight years. Otherwise expect "sensible gun control".
Nope, I'm afraid Christie is another one of those leave-the-top-ticket-but-vote-downstream candidates.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at March 07, 2014 03:00 PM (30eLQ)
Posted by: noone, really [/i] [/b] at March 07, 2014 03:01 PM (5ikDv)
Posted by: marine43 at March 07, 2014 03:01 PM (3lhUM)
Posted by: Ted Cruz at March 07, 2014 03:01 PM (HFSaY)
I never dreamed Obama would be this bad. I knew he was a lying weasel con man and had an over size ego.
Never thought he'd go as far as he has or let his minions do what they've done to this country and the offices that they hold.
People don't understand the damage that's been done. I don't know if we can come back from this stuff. Not with the normal give and take that is usual in the government. The type and amount of damage is such that it will take an exceptional person with the ability to inspire both sides to do good to rebuild the country back into something worthy of pride.
It's sooo much easier to tear down than to build back up.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 03:02 PM (LSDdO)
Posted by: Seems legit at March 07, 2014 03:03 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 07, 2014 03:03 PM (zfY+H)
Posted by: Gomez Adams at March 07, 2014 03:03 PM (pjMym)
I do agree that we want Walker on top and someone "less polarising" at the backup position. I'm just not convinced that Christie is less polarising, especially once all that oppo dirt comes out - and believe it, if Romney could find dirt, Soros can find a damn dust-bowl.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at March 07, 2014 03:03 PM (30eLQ)
Second, on what positions is he different than the democrats? How has he implemented those positions in his state?
Posted by: grammie winger at March 07, 2014 06:58 PM (oMKp3)
I used Christie as an example - I don't care who the nominee is, frankly, as long as he/she can win, and we can start to reverse the horrible policies of Obama. Once his/her policies start working, we can then work towards a more pure conservatism.
Posted by: ombudsman at March 07, 2014 03:04 PM (zhdFI)
Obama's Presidency's gone about how I expected it would. But then, I read David Freddoso's book on the guy before it started.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at March 07, 2014 03:05 PM (30eLQ)
352...I never dreamed Obama would be this bad.
I did.
I've actually been surprised that he hasn't been worse.
But...he's still got 2¾ years to go, to fulfill my worst fears.
Posted by: wheatie at March 07, 2014 03:07 PM (cuECK)
Thanks for FINALLY saying it, Ace.
My problem with Rubio is not that he supports Immigration Reform. My problem is that he LIED HIS ASS OFF about how tough he would be.
I'm not asking for purity....I'm asking fo HONESTY from the guy that wants my vote. If I agree with you 70% of the time, I'll probably vote for you (with the exception of 2-3 "dealbreaker" issues). But if you lie to me....you can choose which of my nuts you would like to suck first.
Tired of being lied to.........
Posted by: FITP at March 07, 2014 03:07 PM (V3jzV)
Posted by: JeffM at March 07, 2014 03:08 PM (LIc41)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 07, 2014 03:12 PM (MYn5s)
Posted by: -Shawn- at March 07, 2014 03:13 PM (kN7O4)
The only surprise will be if a miracle occurs.
I think America's all out of miracles.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Microaggressive SoCon) at March 07, 2014 03:16 PM (LSDdO)
98ZJUSMC Rounding Error
I know the theme is that we are supposed to stop insilting each other, but....go fuck yourself.
MY vote, not yours...If you (or the GOP) wants it they have to EARN it. Otherwise.....Helloooooooooooooo President Clinton.
Don't like it? Get on board with the new gay mafia and suck it whather you want to or not.
Posted by: FITP at March 07, 2014 03:17 PM (V3jzV)
What did the establishment do--nominate the one guy who could not attack Obamacare because he create a similar program in Mass. Next, we have the abject craven surrender on debt ceilings, sequestration, tax increases, etc.
Effectively, most Republican officeholders have given up the fight on most issues preferring to wait until 2014 elections, then if successful, they will want to wait to confront until 2016. And so on.
I notice that as a result many influential voices in the GOP have moved to assert drug legalization, amnesty, gay marriage, government spending, etc are necessary corrections for the party and that socons and fiscons and anti-immigration folks will just have to shut up for the GOP to win in 2014 and 16 and then they will do something for sure.
Instead, what the recent history of the GOP has been that most leftist GOP officeholders have no core principles other than clinging to power--see Jim Jeffords, Lisa Murkowski, Dick Lugar, Lincoln Chaffee, Mike Castle, Lindsey Graham, Arnold S., Lt. Gov. Bolling (VA), and Chris Christie. They would just as soon be Democrats if that was to their advantage which is one of the particular vices that overly rational people fall into which is viewing every transaction in isolation. Thus, betrayal and double-crossing is perfectly justified if it meets with needs of the present (see Christie in 2012 and 2013).
However, for those who have those troubling principles that vex the pliant politicians tend to view such actions as unspeakable and evil. For those with less than Vulcan serenity, we tend to get a mite angry and certainly distrust these individuals as out for themselves and curiously enough do not want them to run our party.
These people are cunning and vicious toward their own party and obsequious to their purported enemies. Devoid of any principles, they are TS Eliot's hollow men and will always bow to power so that they might get crumbs for themselves. In power, they are vicious toward those viewed as beneath them and gracious to those who can harm them. Great leaders are never to be found among their ilk but quite often disastrous ones are. Most are simply forgotten such as American presidents such as Harrison, Tyler, Buchanan, etc.
Posted by: wg at March 07, 2014 03:20 PM (6+ywp)
Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at March 07, 2014 03:24 PM (69Pxs)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 07, 2014 06:11 PM (gBnkX)
No, I understand what Jeff B. is saying. Do you really think Reid and Pelosi and Wasserperson-Schultz believe the War on Women stuff and the Push Granny off the Cliff stuff themselves? No - they are utterly cynical and calculating. They are quite coldly exploiting the emotions of their brain-dead base and the LIV's.
Posted by: Donna and V. (no ampersand) at March 07, 2014 03:31 PM (R3gO3)
McCain, however, is a selfish, arrogant asshole that knowingly sucked up to that media at the expense of the interests of the country and his own party. He left Sarah hanging out to dry and let Obama go Chicago on her and him while he played a supposed 'honorable, elder statesman' schtick that was lost on today's Americans. Even after he (and the USA) were fucked by the media and Obama got in, he went back to his same old ways. His mini-me Graham is the same. Fuck them both. McCain should go away, grab a chair at Tiffany's and let his trophy wife go shopping.
As to conservatism, generally, there is nothing extreme about smaller government, less taxes and state rights. That is why I like Perry and Cruz. They get it.
Posted by: eureka! at March 07, 2014 03:32 PM (xiXna)
I go to Reason and I come back here. I come back here and I go back to Reason.
I can't quit you, AosHq! There's too much Faith and Love here, amongst the Pessimism and Vitriol!
I actually pray for Reid, Pelosi, Biden and Obama.
I know their nature and it is wrong. I ask that our voices meet theirs in a Heavenly Clash on Earth. May Truth, Honor, Justice and Love prevail.
The hardest part of my day, (BLESSED!), is praying for these entities to see the way of both mathematics and Love, combined.
...else S.M.O.D .
20: Repeat Line 10.
S.M.O.D
S.M.O.D.
S.M.O.D.
S.M.O.D....
Posted by: Slapweasel at March 07, 2014 03:35 PM (lq3Ak)
Posted by: Erowmero at March 07, 2014 03:44 PM (1gcFZ)
cowardice isn't the only interpretation, but one that McCain wants us to assume was intended. thus Dole becomes his straw man. he picks Dole as the example but do you doubt he seeks to immunize himself as well? not at all. this is, after all, John McCain, whose corrupt association with Charles Keating would fully qualify him as someone who "failed to stand on principal", without the need to bring in cowardice as an explanation. so he designates Dole in his example as a way of avoiding that conversation. Well played, John.
Elementary, my dear RINO.
Posted by: Born Free at March 07, 2014 03:47 PM (xL8Hf)
Posted by: Cleric at March 07, 2014 03:54 PM (LoX5a)
Posted by: qrstuv at March 07, 2014 03:55 PM (PwzQ6)
Posted by: LiveFromRussianHill at March 07, 2014 03:59 PM (kDMxL)
Here is something I grabbed years ago (10/28/2009) from a blog that now seems to be gone (philosoblog).
Conservatism is in the Middle of a Web
There is a web of values which we have inherited from our ancestors, a large
set which form the moral substance of the ways of life which we love and which
make for good and decent lives. They hang together in mutual support in the way
that a the strands of a spider web do.
Unfortunately, some of the strands may be pursued monomaniacally. Fetishizing
one value over the rest, away one goes off on a tangent away from the central
network. One leaves the other strands behind, gives them short shrift, allowing
one's preferred thread to trump all the others. Libertarianism is an example of
this monomania. Go to a local libertarian meeting. Half the room will turn out
to be anarchists. Liberty is a trump, so government is not allowable.
Some of the strands do not fit in with the rest of the web. Moral and political
debate is supposed to ferret out these elements and discard them, just as one
discovers and erases whichever of the entries in a crossword puzzle is
incoherent with the rest.
Some people make fetishes out of an improper strand instead of properly
discarding it. An example is the effort to redistribute wealth. There is no
justice in the redistribution of wealth. It also does no good. It is a bad
value. Yet many base their political points of view on it, fetishizing it,
making it trump all the other values in the web. They, too, end up far away
from the central cluster of values, out on a tangent. But, unlike the
libertarian, they sacrifice all else to a bad value, not a good one.
Conservatism is the intent to preserve the cluster, to prevent any drift of
one's morals or of the body politic in any direction away from the center. The
cluster is worth preserving. None of the strands in the cluster, whether proper
or improper, is more valuable than the entire set.
So-called moderates? They are people who drift from the center in whichever
direction, only not very far.
This is a decent picture of conservatism and its alternatives. As I've argued
in previous posts, the left-right spectrum is a very poor model.
Posted by: qrstuv at March 07, 2014 04:12 PM (PwzQ6)
Posted by: bobbymike at March 07, 2014 04:17 PM (hY7Vw)
There's no such thing as a "maverick Democrat."
Posted by: cool arrow at March 07, 2014 04:21 PM (Dqdyh)
Dooooood.
No. Rules are Rules. We are a Collective of Laws, not Men.
Pixy makes fools of all of us. Your time has come.
-Barrel.
Posted by: Slapweasel at March 07, 2014 04:22 PM (lq3Ak)
Posted by: Feh at March 07, 2014 04:24 PM (g/zj9)
As to the actual theme of this thread, I am trying not to come to the reluctant conclusion that physical courage is not a guaranteed precursor of moral courage in the political sphere. McCain, Cunningham, Wesley Clark, Webb and Kerry all stand as sad recent examples.
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 07, 2014 04:26 PM (XO6WW)
Posted by: Avi at March 07, 2014 04:29 PM (p/izY)
Given his flying record, I wouldn't be surprised if he missed Cuba.
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 07, 2014 04:29 PM (XO6WW)
It's a great essay (not from me) about why the left-right political spectrum is a silly and defective way to view things. The problem with this way of thinking is that it provides easy weapons to liberals to club conservatives with as being "too extreme." So-called moderates fall in line with this and (I think) tack their sails carefully to avoid that same label.
Conservatism, by its very nature, is not extreme.
Posted by: qrstuv at March 07, 2014 04:31 PM (PwzQ6)
Considering that the repukes that mccain hangs out with HAVE NO PRINCIPLES other than sucking up to the lib media, I fail to understand why he or any of them would be upset at being called principleless demosuck-ups.
Mccain and his friends should just shut up and go back to kissing the collective asses of his favorite NYT reporters.
Posted by: emdfl at March 07, 2014 04:36 PM (TOFDg)
I am a dude-ette (is that in the HQ dictionary?). Copy-paste fail.
*This* is why I lurk.
Posted by: qrstuv at March 07, 2014 04:38 PM (PwzQ6)
Posted by: aka.john at March 07, 2014 05:06 PM (dG6mV)
Posted by: JeffC at March 07, 2014 05:11 PM (TR6Cq)
Posted by: alwyr at March 07, 2014 05:15 PM (V0j3u)
" Didn't McCain tell us we had nothing to fear with TFG?"
He did it after some dirt stupid people in a crowd were screaming some not-helpful things. It's not like he just decided to give a speech about how awesome Obama was. Of all the things to hang McCain for, this is one of the lesser damning. A gaffe isn't as bad when the man spends all his time sticking his thumb in our eye.
Posted by: Shoot Me at March 07, 2014 05:27 PM (qiXMt)
Posted by: Johnny McCain at March 07, 2014 05:44 PM (qk4Ys)
Posted by: GMB Vote me for Spades O'Aces Ofishal Gramie R and nellin Spatzie g at March 07, 2014 05:49 PM (nkPV9)
John Glenn
Randy Cunningham
All the same person. Rode their service record into office and then dishonored their service and their family name.
Pathetic.
Posted by: tug at March 07, 2014 05:51 PM (SsaBP)
Posted by: GMB Vote me for Spades O'Aces Ofishal Gramie R and nellin Spatzie g at March 07, 2014 05:53 PM (nkPV9)
Posted by: Brian McKim at March 07, 2014 08:10 PM (NHK1D)
Bob Dole's problem was that he obviously thought it was "his turn" to be President.
It wasn't.
Posted by: mojo at March 07, 2014 08:37 PM (AIC5Z)
The Contract with America was extremely popular, but Dole refused to let nearly any of the items come up for a vote in the Senate.
Seemingly only for this, he was awarded the Presidential nomination in '96.
Fuck Bob Dole.
Posted by: Luke at March 07, 2014 10:16 PM (32FX2)
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 07, 2014 10:17 PM (AQTz3)
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at March 08, 2014 02:02 AM (7i0fA)
Posted by: General Zod at March 08, 2014 02:52 AM (2+bRt)
Posted by: Doug at March 08, 2014 05:59 AM (fQEsf)
Posted by: doug at March 08, 2014 07:27 AM (uJ8q7)
Posted by: tsj017 at March 08, 2014 07:34 AM (tIcJF)
But politics can be dirty, even on the same side. I know there were a lot of attacks between Obama and Hillary supporters in 2007-2008 and they survived. We will, too.
Posted by: DRJ at March 08, 2014 10:28 AM (iqHi+)
We're letting this be a silly game of More Conservative Than Thou precisely because we're letting this be a silly game of More Conservative Than Thou.
If McCain believes that some people are too conservative, then why does he not just forthrightly say so, and make a case for a Not Too Hard, Not Too Soft brand of conservatism?
Because they can't. Ace, you continuously claim this is an argument about "tactics". It is not. that is what is so frustrating to those of us who understand it. We aren't playing "more conservative than thou" in the sense you claim - where we are "truecons" who just hate anyone not red enough.
What is frustrating is we know you and other people who act as apologists for the GOP know that isn't what is going on.
We can only have arguments over tactics if we both have the same goals and general strategy. then, we aren't arguing about what we want to achieve, we are arguing about how to achieve it. You, and the GOP, are missing a huge step (purposefully so) in pretending that is what is going on.
The GOP has never really made any effort to achieve any conservative goal. So, for instance, we can't be arguing over the tactics of "how to reduce spending" when the GOP has no intention of ever reducing spending.
Instead, the GOP pretends it wants to reduce spending and tells us "we can't do 'x' unless we have the house, senate and WH; we can't do 'x' right now because of the economy; we can't do 'x' right now because the next election is too important; we can't do 'x' because . . .
That isn't a fight over tactics. Some people pretend that's what it is. That is completely dishonest though. The GOP, as currently constituted, has no intention of:
a) reducing spending;
b) reducing the size of gov't;
c) eliminating any agencies;
d) eliminating any programs (that includes Obamacare);
f) reigning in the bureaucracy;
g) reforming entitlements.
The problem is the GOP has no credibility with anyone about anything. So, the whole "trust us, we are really, really trying" doesn't work anymore.
Arguing that conservatives who see this for what it is are "truecons" is just a game the GOP and its apologists play to try and convince those who haven't woken up yet that the GOP is remotely conservative.
It is frustrating to see otherwise intelligent, and otherwise conservative people playing this game and pretending the GOP is an ally to conservatism. It is not. The GOP is actually a bigger enemy than the Democrats because the GOP gives us false hope and keeps conservatives from pursuing other avenues, all while allowing the leftist agenda to march on.
McCain is one of the biggest useful idiots the left has. He has done more damage to conservatism and the country than almost any leftist by acting as the left's dupe. The fact that he was the GOP's presidential nominee is almost more damning to the GOP than almost anything else it has done in the last 20 years to prove that the GOP hates conservatives and conservatism.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at March 09, 2014 05:35 AM (sOx93)
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Posted by: sound awake at March 07, 2014 01:36 PM (pk/NG)